January 13, 2025 • 43 mins
While Massachusetts has landed among the top states for outmigration over the last couple of years, the good news is that the pace that which people are leaving is slowing down. The latest federal migration report from the US Census Bureau shows that outmigration in the Commonwealth has slowed and returned to prepandemic levels. Boston Globe business reporter Jon Chesto joined Dan to discuss!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's night Sime with Dan Ray. I'm telling you easy
Boston Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, we have occasionally talked about the whole question of
what they call out migration from Massachusetts, and I was
reading the Globe this morning in John Chesto, one of
my favorite columnists in the Globe, wrote a very interesting
piece saying, people still leaving, but exodus is slowing down.
I guess there's some good news there, John Chesto, how
are you tonight.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I'm doing great. Yeah, I'm trying to find the silver
lining here.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
You know, before the pandemic, we were losing a net
twenty five to thirty thousand people to other states. Now
this doesn't factor in immigration from other countries, which is
a whole other topic, but we were basically a net
loser to other states in a big way. But then
(00:53):
in twenty twenty two it got a lot worse. Essentially
the loss double to fifty five thousand.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Except that these people were working remotely and they decided, yeah,
I'd like it down here.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
In Florida exactly. You wait, a lot of people moved everywhere, now,
not just Florida, but a lot of places are cheaper
than Massachusetts. And so during that work remote time, we
lost a lot of people, and then it's been slowly
coming back. It dropped the loss to other states dropped
to thirty six thirty seven thousand the following year, and
(01:26):
now it's around twenty seven thousand, which is the recent
history pre pandemic and is sort of in the range
of where it was before the pandemic. So I think you.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Piece today you said that we have not been a
plus migration state. I think you said for fifteen years.
That would take us back to deval Patrick's first term.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Right, yes, our last it would either be two thousand
and nine or twenty ten. We had one year where
we had a net gain of about five thousand people
or so. And I've heard different theories on why, but
one my own personal theory is we during that time
(02:07):
was the Great Recession. In Massachusetts, believe or not, did
much better than most areas of the country, and the
Great Recession, we weren't hit quite as hard, we didn't
have as many layoffs, and so there were probably more
job opportunities here at the time.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
How do we do every year between births and deaths,
because that has to be somewhat of a factor as
well as mind is that.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Is the factor as well. And I can't remember the
exact number, but that you know, generally speaking are When
I looked at it, it seemed like we were in
line with the nation.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
And in that that the birth the birth rates are
slowing down, so we and we have the baby boom
generation reaching you know, they're not I wouldn't I hate
to say death age, but you know that there's a
large there's a big bulge in the population that's getting older,
(03:01):
moving toward retirement, past retirement.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
The baby Boomer generation, which I think technically started in
nineteen forty six post World War Two. Those first baby
Boomers are going to be turning eighty in the next
year or two.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah, but I don't think we're any different than other states.
The Lord and I can check the numbers. It's seem
pretty similar. So that doesn't really help us. But we
are helped by immigration. And of course we have budget
issues in terms of accommodating immigrants who are coming here
(03:39):
who don't have a place to live or stay, or
don't have a job. But there's also we have a
lot of high earning immigrants that move here from other
countries too. Because of the knowledge based economy does draw
people from all over the world.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
How does that break down between people who are coming
here legitimately on a visa, whether there are you know,
a doctor at one of Boston's major hospitals, are a
professor at a college, versus those who are coming here
without benefit of a visa.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I honestly don't know that the exact breakdown. I think
it's a I don't think it's overwhelmingly one category or another.
I think there's this, you know, substantial number of both
types coming here. I mean, obviously, looking at how much
we're spending on you know, you know what, do we
at one point five billion dollars or something in in
(04:33):
terms of almost in one year?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, no, yeah, but more than that. Actually, I think
that the governor has just asked for a supplemental of
four hundred yeah, gets us close to two billion. It
was projected all along going to be a billion a
year once this really kicked in the high gear beginning,
and you know, in twenty twenty three, and now the governor,
as you know, is looking at it and saying she's actually,
(04:56):
it looks to me I've seen some reporting that's suggesting
that that he wants to go back and review the
original purposes of the legislation, which I remember.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
I think, Yeah, I think I think there's a movement
to try to tweet that legislation that you know, where
the only state that really has this, you know, to
make it, to make it so that if you're if
you have to be sort of an actual legal resident
of the state for to receive these housing benefits, rather
(05:33):
than have it just be open to everybody.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Well, housing benefits in addition to EBT cards and in
addition to medical appointments, uber uber rides and cab cab fares.
There's this one company down the Cape, I think it's Centrual.
They got a no bid six point one million dollar contract. Uh,
you've got to live. You've got to have a lot
of cab rides to the birth through Oh wow, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
To get I mean, I will say that the contracts
that we've seen, and the Globe has done some significant reporting,
not me, but some of my colleagues on these no
big contracts. They're astounding just how much money is going
to you know, the hotels, going to the food prep companies.
You know, it's really really deserves a thorough scrubbings. You know,
(06:25):
there's a reason why we have bidding laws here in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, it looks to me like that the governor is
finally coming around to saying, wait a second, or what
are we doing here? There's there's no other state like Massachusetts.
Now she says, we're not a sanctuary state. But but
whether we are or not, in practicality.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yeah, we do have that law. No law exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Which was signed by governor to Caucus. I actually was
at the ceremony. The only reason I remembered is I
I watched a report of it on two or three
months ago, and I heard my voice asking the concass
of question. And I do remember that if you remember,
homelessness really became an issue around that time, but particularly
women homelessness. A lot of you know, women found themselves
(07:14):
out in the street, and at that time, again it's
forty years ago, people were shocked and said, well, wait
a second, it's one thing if guys are out in
the street, we kind of have women and children out
of the streets. And I believe that was the impetus
for the law, which was.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Did you ever expect back then that it would be,
you know, such a budget buster today?
Speaker 5 (07:37):
No?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
No, because it was always thought that, and then they
got into a controversy subsequent to that where they had
a lot of people they didn't have enough shelters and
they were they were they were housing people in hotels
and that became kind of a controversy.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Oh yeah, that's been an issue off and on, Well,
I think ever since really.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Exactly exactly, but no, this was never contemplated, the idea of,
you know, thousands upon thousands of people arriving here on
their own or being flown into the country, and then
that they would become beneficiaries of the law. The only
other there's no other state that has a law like that.
MI understanding is that there is in the District of Columbia,
(08:18):
which is not a state but obviously a part of
the United States, they do have some similar statute. And
I think New York also, the City of New York,
had some sort of statute which also became a magnet
when people started heading up to New York a couple
of years ago. And now that has fallen into disfavor
(08:38):
amongst the political leaders in New York. So John Well,
I got to take a quick break. I'd love to
see if people want to ask you a couple of questions,
and I also got a couple of questions as to
where this trend, Can this trend continue? And what do
we have to do in Massachusetts to reverse this trend
because we have the millionaire's tax, which is now on
(08:59):
the books. There are still people who were leaving Massachusetts.
Twenty seven thousand people and twenty in the year ended,
according to your column as I read it last last
June thirtieth, the prior fiscal year, fiscal year twenty twenty four,
that's enough people almost to fell Fenway Park, a lot.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Of people the other state.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, yeah, So let's see what if people want to
ask a couple of questions. My guest is John Chesto,
his columns in the Boston Globe. I read them all
the time. Chesto means business. I love that his piece today.
People still leaving, but exodus slowing down. Mass was once
losing eleven hundred people a week to other states was
just an extraordinary number during the COVID nineteen pandemic. It
(09:45):
has been cut in half, but it's still a lot.
Twenty seven thousand, and of course we won't have this
year's stats until the end of June. Back with John Chester,
if you'd like to talk a little business six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six Poe seven nine three t back on
Nightside following these.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Messages, Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window
World Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
My guess it's John Gasto Busino, business columnists from the
Boston Globe. And John, obviously the trend the last two
years is in the right direction, but it's still a
disquieting trend. I mean, it's not as if we've turned
the corner here. What is it about Massachusetts? You follow
(10:30):
this more closely than anyone I know. What is it
about Massachusetts? How would you categorize it? Is it the
millionaire's tax which is still hurting us? Is it the
fact that the state tax structure in Massachusetts across the
board is less a kind or pleasant to its taxpayers
than Tennessee in New Hampshire? What is or is it?
(10:53):
Or is it weather? What is it?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Well?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
The biggest, the biggest issue is cost of living in Massachusetts,
and I would put housing as the primary driver of that,
you know, to the rents and the median home sales
prices in Massachusetts now, particularly in greater Boston are through
the roof, and there's no real sign of it falling
(11:17):
back even with you know, there's no sign that home
prices have not slowed come down, even though the interest
rates have gone up. So it's become so much harder
to buy a house here. I think, you know, we
see the biggest problem, the biggest problem area in terms
of about migration right now is the twenty five to
(11:37):
thirty four year old demographic. And I think you have
you know, up to that point, you're willing to kind
of stick it out and like four people buddies in
a three decker apartment, you know, you know, living on
top of each other. But as soon as you want
to think about buying a house or starting a family,
you need a little more space, you need one more room.
(11:57):
It just becomes almost impossible. Now that's the biggest driver.
You mentioned taxes, and our tax situation is not great.
Tax Foundation ranks us in the bottom ten, at the
top of the bottom ten. You know, we're better off
than California, New Jersey and New York, but you know
New Hampshire is in the top ten. They do great
and they do draw a lot of people from Massachusetts
(12:19):
because they don't have an income tax. The issue of
the millionaire's tax may not be chasing a ton of people.
That took effect two years ago, and we're still we
still don't have the IRS data because it even lacks
the sense its stata to see how many wealthy people
are leaving the problem with that is the people who
are going to leave are the people that probably contribute
(12:39):
the most financially to the economy, either in filling throfic
work or in just spending money. So that is chasing
some people a way. I've talked to a lot of people,
and you've seen some prominent people change their residency to
other states because of the millionaire's tax, which affects people
who earn more than a million dollars in any given year.
(13:01):
We also have a high estate tax, still one of
the highest, even after a reform that just took effect.
We have a pretty high capital gains tax too, So
those are those those sort of counting against us. But
the high cost of housing, it really is a tough
one to overcome. And yeah, the weather doesn't help us either.
(13:24):
I mean right now, it's what twenty twenty degrees you
know out here, you know, with the windshields a lot,
a lot colder. But I'll tell you I also did.
I was talking to a colleague of mine who's who
has a friend in la and she's her apartment is
or her house is not affected by the fires, but
(13:44):
she's you know, she's done with worrying about fires. So
she's wanted to see, if you know, look at job
opportunities in Massachusetts. So you know that we do we
we don't have when it comes to those big natural disasters.
We we don't have a lot of those, which I'm
thankful for. But the cold can be pretty inhospitable, that's
(14:06):
for sure.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah. No, I look, the worst thing we're going to
get around here are blizzards. I mean, I think I
have friends of mine in the Plaine States, and beginning
in April and May, it's like hurricane you know, tornado season.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
And yeah, I mean the hurricanes here. Really we have
not had like high death toll type hurricanes like you
have in the Gulf Coast that usually by the time
they get here there they've had a little bit of
the wind knocked out of their sales.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Why is it, though, Okay, why is it? In your opinion?
And this is my last question really that we have
this state where they try to tax people wherever they
possibly can, uh, and we have One of the things
that bothers me right now is you know what's going
on in New York with the congestion pricing, and I
(14:55):
think that's going to be coming to Boston. It's going
to be impossible to get into Boston between the like
lanes and if and when they introduced congestion pricing. Are
the politicians that they have that amount of avarice? They
just need more and more money to keep people on
the payroll. We looked at the globes U Mass Amherst
(15:17):
salaries last hour and it's like.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Oh yeah, pretty high.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah. I mean it was ten percent increase of the
mass budget with a decrease of I think it was
three percent or whatever in students. There's just a disconnect
that seems to me between the leadership on Beacon Hill.
I always thought that Governor Healy would be sort of
a a mitigating factor.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah, like a moderate check and bounce type on them.
And I think she's I think she's tried. She's tried
to be I mean really obviously you know as well
as I that it's really up to the legislature in
terms of what taxes get asked. She she did sort
of help. You know, there was a tax reform package
that didn't get done in the legislature before her, when
(16:09):
Charlie Baker was still governor. She helped get that across
the finish line. But you know, I do I think
congestion price. I mean, you saw what happened when her
state transportation secretary started making maybe too much noise about
putting tolls up everywhere. So there she she she knows
that there's a there, it's a that's a like a
(16:32):
third rail to use a transportation pun of politics is,
you know, putting tolls up everywhere and using suggestion pricing.
So she's very reluctant to go that direction. I think
it's some I know some legislators have been really trying
to because they they view tolls as an act of
it's unfair because commuters from the west are getting hit,
(16:56):
but not commuters from the north or south who benefit
from the big dig but don't have to drive through
a toll road. So I think I don't. I think
congestion pricing is going to be a tough sell. And
Beacon hild but I do think now that you can
just throw these gantries up and you don't you know,
that over the highway and you don't need to have
toll takers. I think you will probably see tolls on
(17:18):
some of the other highways eventually. It's going to take
time because you know, it's a real complicated federal process
you have to go through to the state. Can't just
decide to put tolls up on federal highways. I think
I think they're you know, I would say the Healthy
administration's cognizant of the backlash the state legislature. Some of
(17:42):
them are. But you know, you know, if you look
at how compare to Boston's budget increase, which was they were.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
Moving.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
You know, the wool administration just got through an eight
percent budget increase, including a one percent related to the
transfer of bp A onto this onto the city's budget. Uh,
the state was less than half of that. I don't
remember what the exact percent increase. Of course, the downside
is what you don't what what what you don't here
(18:14):
get added into the total until way later. These supplemental
budgets that pop up during like you mentioned, the one
that you know is being talked about for Yeah, so though,
like you hear about the regular budget that gets approved
always late, but usually in the summer, and it's like
a two or three percent increase. But then these sub
budgets keep coming through. So I honestly, if you're throwing
(18:36):
the sub budgets, we might have a lot more. I mean,
it's uh, and it's funny how that's there are these
We always still have a ton of money in the
Rainy Day Fund. It just seems like we might be
able to use a little bit more of that to
soften the you know, avoid avoid the I would say,
(18:57):
like any sort of increase because now we are getting
to the point where we're going to have to we're
talking about we need to do something about the MBTA,
and that's that's going to be a real painful discussion.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
They're talking about using some of that millionaire search share
tax money millionaires tax or tax money to prop up
the MBTA, which has a seven hundred or eight hundred
million dollar operating deficit. But I don't think that's going
to cover it all. Of course, there's probably some savings
to be found in the MBTA as well. And see
(19:30):
the state saying, you know, we really keep savings.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
John, in Massachusetts have a tendency of disappearing. I remember
when they went to they got rid of all the
toll takers, and I thought to myself, this is a
good idea, because whatever the number was, two hundred toll takers.
You know, you think about the pensions and you think
about the salaries. But ah, I don't see an yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
We didn't get we didn't get any benefit from that saving,
not a penny.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, or or or someone at least could have said, well,
here what the savings are. Again. Obviously there was some
infrastructure costs to put up the what you mentioned. I
forget the name of Gantries, Elbert Gantry, right.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Actually remember that.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
But yeah, I just don't get it. And I think
that that you look at all these numbers. We've seen
these numbers for a while. We've had Republican governors, we've
had democratic governors, and it just seems the legislature continues
on their merry way and they do whatever they want.
John Cheste, I love the piece today. I follow you
very closely. I appreciate you coming on and explaining it
(20:41):
because you make it understandable to people who might look
at a piece and look at numbers and kind of
gloss over you make it clearly understandable.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
And saying that I'm always happy to join you. It's
always fun.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Absolutely, Thanks John, we'll talk soroon. Okay, all right, you two.
John of the Boston Globe again, if you read the Globe,
you read the business section. He's a columnist who I
think really puts it on the line. This article today says, yeah,
things are looking better for Massachusetts. However, however we're still losing.
(21:20):
Last year twenty seven thousand people choosing. More people left
Massachusetts than came in. So I want to open it
up here for the balance of this hour. You listen
to John Chesto. Do you have any hope that Massachusetts
can can turn it around? I don't, Frankly, you know,
I don't know where else they're going to go, increach
(21:42):
the millionaire's tax, double the triple, quadruple the millionaire's tax,
maybe maybe increase the state income tax. Whatever. There's always
people out there saying those people need to pay their
fair share, people need to pay more. Well, you know,
eventually there'll be no people left to pay. Uh. That
is economics one oh one in my opinion. Uh And
(22:05):
maybe in yours. Have you ever thought that is going
to come a day when you're gonna just say sayonara
to Massachusetts and either head north to New Hampshire or
head south to places like South Carolina, Florida, Tennessee, or Texas.
Now again, significant change of people's lifestyle, no doubt about that.
(22:28):
But I just wonder how many of you out there
have actually thought about that or or are you committed
to staying in Massachusetts no matter how much how deep
the politicians dig into your pocket. That's the issue. That's
the question. You got the answer six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine three, one ten thirty.
(22:48):
My name is Dan Ray. What we try to do
one night Side is make you think. Okay, that's all
I'm trying to do. So if you're out there thinking,
I want to know what you're thinking. That's what the
program is all about. There's no one better than John.
You listen to him for the half an hour that
he joined us. Now it's time for us to listen
to you. Come back on night Side right after the
(23:09):
news at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
We're talking about the future of Massachusetts, and we had
in the first half hour of the ten o'clock hour,
we talked with John Chestow the Boston Globe. I think
the guy does a great work for the Globe, and
he I think put it in really good perspective today.
So my question took all of you out there, particularly
(23:43):
those of you in Massachusetts or those of you outside
of Massachusetts. Are you sick of the tax policies in
your state? I certainly am sick of the tax policies
at Massachusetts. I was born, brought up here, raised here,
worked here for my entire life. But I don't feel
(24:04):
a great loyalty to the state. Maybe you do. Let's
see what what others think. Six one, seven, five, four,
ten thirty, six, seven, nine, three, ten thirty. I'm going
to Bill and Danvers. Bill, you're here for the long
run in Massachusetts.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Uh No, I'm definitely not. I mean the implation slowed
me down a little bit from making maybe some moves.
But I mean I've been sort of looking at maybe
Myrtle Beach. Uh if they could fix some of the
insurance issues maybe in Florida. Uh, that would be even
a cheaper tax wise, but I'll pay a little bit.
In South property taxes are very cheaper Myrtle Beach. I mean,
(24:41):
I've been down a few times. It's uh. And you know,
I know the gentleman he had on he talked about
the housing price and stuff. I was fortunate. I've been
annoying it. But I tell you I couldn't buy my
condoc now if I had them. It's ridiculous. And uh,
you know, I'm a single guy. I mean, I don't
know how a guy with a kid or two and
(25:02):
the wife, I mean, unless they're really hustle and hustling.
I got friends of mine, it's very difficult. Some of
them had three kids and that's very hot. Also, you know,
we didn't talk about utilities. I mean, when you have
natural gas, if you look at delivery charge this time
a year, and that stems really from them killing the
(25:22):
originally I think five six years in fact, I talked
to Governor Sanoona one time he was on your program
because New Hampshire they would have benefited if they had
brought up they wanted and they wanted to bring almost
one close to New Hampshire. There was originally two they
were going to bring up out of Pennsylvania. Then they
tried one and then that died. But uh, not bringing
those pipes lines up here and the delivery charge and
(25:44):
the natural gas issues has really damaged the state in
New England. Actually it's unfortunate, you know. So you know,
I don't really hold out a lot of hope. I
don't think there's too many deep thinkers up and becon held.
They just want to get by one thing to the
eye there and cover whatever they got going on and
and and and eventually the music is gonna stop playing
(26:05):
because the people that are leaving and the most productive citizens. Unfortunately,
and I'll tell you this, guys, if you put in
the hotel is not going to make it.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah. If you want to talk about utility bills, check
out your your electric bill this month, uh and checked
out check out the supply charges. Those were the supply
charges on my bill. The supply charge was doubled from
like you know, zero point one zero to point two two.
(26:36):
And I watched that stuff pretty closely. So I went
back a year ago and there was no jump in
the supply charge. It was almost as if they said, well,
well we gotta we got to raise some aspect of
this bill. You know, I don't understand that the natural
(26:57):
the National grid bill has actually been more reasonable to
me this winter than uh, than it has been in
the past. But you're absolutely right. They wanted to bring
some pipelines into Massachusetts and we had officials from an
Astro grid on talking about that three or four years ago,
and they they said, hey, look, if if we don't
(27:19):
increase the supply, the price is going to go up. Uh.
And sure enough that is what has happened. So welcome
to Massachusetts. You know, how many how many more years
do you think you'll you'll work out here? What? What's
what's your target date?
Speaker 3 (27:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
I'm thinking, you know, it depends on how much they
increase the rent, you know, the overall bills. I mean,
I may have three to five years they had left
and then I got it. I have a second thing
going to the last few years. I'll see how that goes,
and then I don't know, I mean, I'll make this.
I would logically, I've always felt that I wanted to
(27:56):
keep at least one foothold here, you know, because I
do like my doctors. Then I mean, I've been to
a lot of places. We are fortunate still they have
the doctors we have, but the medical thing, and to
be honest with there's some of the food too. You
go to the different areas of the country, they can't
make a sandwich. Those are really the only two things
that I really have any passion for in the state,
to be honest, The roads, the infrastructure, you know, if
(28:22):
you maybe a few friends. But other than that, I
can't really say, you know, I you know, ultimately I'll
be buried there because I ever bought a plot, but
I just don't want to spend you know, the weather,
you know, I just I'm every year, I just get
round down more. And I'll tell you if they do
(28:42):
the congestive stuff, you know, going out of Boston and
the like they're doing in New York, and if they
really get crazy with more too, I may just get
to the point where I'm just fed up one day,
and if the lease is almost done and I put
the house up for sale and I'm out of here altogether.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
The thing, too, is that if you don't have to
go to Boston, you don't wanted to worry about it.
Just at pricing. I don't know, if your business takes
you to Boston, but try to drive into Boston now
the bike lanes have just gone over the top. They've
spent one hundred I know, I'm not a million dollars
on bike lanes in Boston.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
Okay, I'm you know.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
I going out around Cambridge too, and it's like, you know,
very narrow and uh. I went to the gym not
too long ago because I planed a fitness will depending
where I am, I have the bag sometimes, you know,
And I went to one a mass out by Leslie College,
you know, downstairs and back across the street. But get
in and out and the little streets around there and
the bike lanes, I'm like, you know, and it's the
(29:40):
dark night. You gotta take it slow and hopefully they
you know, the usually have these lights and the bikes
now they roll up and down. But I don't know.
It's tough if you take it streets that were done
over one hundred years ago and putting bike lanes on them.
And it's tough it was to putting it.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Does it make sense? Bill? I appreciate your callers always.
We'll talk soon, okay, when you when I decided to
let me know, remember you can get w BZ down
in South Carolina. We got a lot of listeners in
South Carolina.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
Oh yeah, no, I'll be calling them from the golf course.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Sounds great, Thanks, Belle, appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Yeah, six.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Eight, nine, nine, ten thirty or better. Yet, here's a couple.
It's easy, six one, seven ninety. Peg is in New Hampshire. Peg,
have you already left?
Speaker 7 (30:28):
I did, Hi, Danne, I haven't talked here in a while.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Right used to be Peg from Haveril.
Speaker 7 (30:35):
I know and Peg. That's why I haven't talked. I've
been in the process of a move right before Thanksgiving,
and it has so much to do with if you
remember some of our conversations. My rent had doubled, like
in the past couple of years. It went up amazing,
and I started looking for something small and I said
(30:56):
to the realtor, I can go to the the the
northern part of Massachusetts where which is where I've been,
or the southern part of New Hampshire. And when something
was found in New Hampshire, I set them in. So, yeah,
I am now a much Let me ask you just
give me.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
A rough idea. How much of a difference is it
in terms of I assume the properties. I hope the
properties are fairly comparable in terms of size and convenience
and all of that.
Speaker 7 (31:25):
Well, I have to tell you, in all honesty, because
I'm older, I'm getting closer to retirement, which is going
to still be a while because it's expensive. So I
purchased a mobile home and it's actually cheaper. It was
cheaper than my rent, and it's actually cheaper than some
(31:45):
of the mobile homes that I saw. And this one's
really new, it's like twelve years old. So and some
of them, you know, I saw in Massachusetts in mobile
home parks and they were more expensive, you know. And
I'm up here now and I'm like, oh, you know,
there's no more excise tax. I made sure that at work,
(32:07):
I changed it because now I also transferred my job.
So even though I didn't change jobs in New Hampshire,
I will keep my income tax.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Yeah, so waste.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
So you're still working in Massachusetts.
Speaker 7 (32:21):
Nope. I worked for a company that is throughout Massachusetts,
New Hampshire, New York.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
So I just transferred.
Speaker 7 (32:29):
So I'm in the same company, but a different store
in New Hampshire.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Okay, you had been working in Massachusetts, so you were
paying such a tax in Massachusetts So not only did
you improve you a lot financially from appointed from you
your living conditions, but now your salary is going to
in effect increase because you don't if they won't be
taking new Massachusetts taxes out. That's great.
Speaker 7 (32:54):
That is it is And I have to tell you,
you know, you and I've had conversations about money before.
You know, the rent was so much and I didn't
live in Boston. I was forty miles.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Outside of Boston.
Speaker 7 (33:08):
You know, Yeah, it's just it's too much money.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
When when finally people leave, it's just I guess the
last one out, turn out the lights and we'll be
all set.
Speaker 7 (33:21):
And it's just.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I'm so happy here. But I thought we had lost
you as a listener and as a caller, So keep listening.
Uh Oh was the mobile home and you want to
or one that that was? You know, is there a
marketplace for.
Speaker 7 (33:39):
It's twelve years old and there's actually quite a few.
I wasn't going to do that. I came in with
my adult one of my adult children, you know, I said, Okay,
we'll just do this together because he's never going to
get married. You can have it when I'm gone. But
it's big enough it's clean, and you know, it's welcoming,
(33:59):
and I'm not putting up with with the taxes and
a lot of the prices of things, and I have
to admit it's not a sanctuary, you know, city, and
I just feel a little more comfortable.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Good for you, Good for you. All right, congratulations, Peg,
We'll talk soon. Thanks so much.
Speaker 7 (34:17):
I will be calling you again. Thanksgian.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
All right, thanks bag.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Thanks, We'll take quick break. I got some open lines
here six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six
one seven, nine three one ten thirty. We're going to
hear from another high tax state, which of course is
on New York, our sister state here, uh in the northeast.
If you'd like to join the conversation. Are you someone
who is deeply committed to the to Massachusetts or wherever
(34:42):
you live, or are you now somewhat influenced by the
tax rate and the weather and whatever other factors are
making you look elsewhere? There are still more people. I
think Massachusetts has the fifth greatest out migration of any
state in a Marria. At twenty seven tho it's about
half of what it was the year before, not half.
(35:03):
It was half of what it was two years ago,
but more and more people, a lot of people are
leaving the car Multa, Massachusetts. Love to know your thoughts.
Be right back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Now back to Dan Raay live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Let's keep rolling here, gonna go to will and Long Island. Will.
I got a couple of callers behind you, so I
want to be a little quicker tonight than usual. How
are you, sir?
Speaker 4 (35:30):
Yeah, well this is pretty quick because you know, we
suffer from the same problems that you guys suffer from. Expensive.
I mean I moved from Nashville County about five six
years ago, the second highest property taxes in the country
and county wise, to the fifth or sixth highest in
Suffolk County. You know, the amount of property taxes that
(35:51):
I pay per year is someone's salary almost. It's actually ridiculous.
And the services that we get. I go to other
states like Florida and I asked them to have garbage men, yeah,
did police, Yeah, you have fireman? You have a yeah?
Well then how come you pay two thousand and I
pay twenty thousand. You know, there's a big difference in
my state and other states and I don't feel that
(36:11):
I get the services that they get in other states
for the disproportionate amount of taxes that I'm paying, and
it's a lot of the waste that's bad.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I have a pretty normal house here in Newton, Massachusetts.
Want to guess what I pay in property taxes?
Speaker 4 (36:25):
I would imagine something extremely high. Thirty thousand. Yeah, no, Dan,
let me tell you something I'm not. I'm not a
wealthy man, Okay. I have a regular business, like a
regular entrepreneur in this country. It's like having a job,
you know, and.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Sure that type of the last person gets paid.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
And I wouldn't even be so upset about it if
it weren't if I were getting, you know, a massive
amount of services as compared to other states. Because I
have family that lives in North Carolina, I have a
lot of family in Florida, And I got to talk.
The idea of being from New York is so much
better than the actual reality when you travel around the
country and people like, oh, you're from New York. Yeah,
(37:08):
there's nothing, There's nothing that's special about this. I gotta
be honest. I love the fact that I was raised here,
but I think I'm going to spend my twilight year
someone else. I tell my kids all the time, I
go when you get out of college. You know, as
you go out to college, there'll be a for sale
sign on the house, and when you come back home,
it'll be to a nice, really warm pleasure.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
And we also, well, I appreciate it, man, I really do.
Thank you much. Sometime next call. Thanks. Just keep rolling.
Going to get Betty in the boat. Betty, I want
to get you in one more in go ahead.
Speaker 8 (37:40):
Betty, I wouldn't move in a New York minute.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Well, you have a special situation here, you're living on
a boat. You got it figured out.
Speaker 8 (37:52):
I had it figured out. But my host for living
on the boat went from ten years ago about eight
hundred dollars a month, and now it's up to fifteen
hundred dollars a month. I didn't have to pay for
my real estate taxes. I didn't have to pay for
(38:14):
water taxes. I had it made. Electricity was included.
Speaker 7 (38:19):
Now there's a.
Speaker 8 (38:19):
Waterways tax now that you have to pay a mooring
fee on the City of Boston, even if you are
docked year round and you don't use a mooring.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
I pay Someone said. Someone said Betty on the boat
and people like her, we need to dig into their pockets.
That's what happened.
Speaker 8 (38:40):
Well, yeah, and they've dug deep, and you know, it
was a great retirement. But I'll tell you, Dan, all
I have to do is turn the key on and
I'm out of here. And the one thing that is
keeping me here in Boston is the fact that I
have wonderful services that I cannot find elsewhere in the country.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
And of course what type of services, what type of services.
Speaker 8 (39:06):
Well, for the senior citizens, I have the laundry service.
I have a lady who comes in and helps me
with the cleaning. I have, you know, so you don't
think that.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
In a more temperate climate, like a place like South Carolina,
that that service doesn't exist. I mean, I don't want
you to leave, Betty, don't get me wrong, but I'm
just saying that that I want you to stay. Don't
get me wrong. But boy, if they're picking your pockets,
that's not fair.
Speaker 8 (39:37):
I want. When my cat got sick, this is an
example of how bad Massachusetts is. Maya got sick with
renal failure in August and I took her to the
animal hospital and for two nights at the veterinarian hospital.
Do you know how much they wanted and there was
(39:59):
no guarante that she was going to live.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I'm going to guess one thousand dollars. I'm going to
guess one thousand.
Speaker 8 (40:05):
Dollars, seven thousand, nine and eighty two dollars and thirty
two cents.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
I would be turning that key and head into South Carolina.
Let me tell you, though, that's ridiculous. That is ridiculous.
Seven dollars or two nights for a cat. Oh my god.
Speaker 8 (40:22):
And I said, may I worked in neurology at mass
General few years and I said, may I see her
labs please? And I lift her the labs. I called
my very front and I said, and I said, John,
this is my problem. He said, whatever you want to do,
I'll stay with you. I was told this cat had
under forty eight hours to live and live. And you
(40:42):
know who just jumped off the kitchen table?
Speaker 4 (40:44):
The cat?
Speaker 2 (40:45):
The cat?
Speaker 7 (40:46):
I remember that, Yeah? The cat?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
All right, all right, Beddy, I got one more. I
got to sneak in here. I want you to stay,
but if you go, you got to let me know. Okay,
I'll let you.
Speaker 8 (40:56):
I'll let you be the captain.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
All right, bags, fatty talk soon. Let me get Warren
in here. One last of the hour. You got about
a minute and a half. Are you ready to stay
or you're gonna go? Warren?
Speaker 6 (41:10):
Oh, if I had the money, if I had the means,
I would be long gone. I would be somewhere where
it's not so congested.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (41:21):
And you know, like in the taxes taxes here, it's
return on investment. A lot of people feel like, Okay,
for the money that they pay in taxes, we're not
getting the services you know back, you know, like when
we're when we're paying for a legles to be in
(41:41):
hotel rooms, you know. I mean, yeah, that's kind of
it's kind of outlandish.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yeah. And I live in a city where last week
or was it last week, No, two weeks ago, I
literally spent half the day trying to make sure my
actually get picked up. I mean yeah, it's like it's like.
Speaker 6 (42:04):
Well, it's I mean, I work with people. I work
with people who are barely getting by, barely getting by.
I mean, you know, we're you know, we work in
a print shop. But it's yeah, a lot of these
people are just barely barely.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
More and more people just barely getting by, and and
I have no idea where all the money that we
pay actually goes. And I know I'm getting tired of it.
Speaker 6 (42:35):
It goes into the politician's pockets. It's ay amazing. How
how a politician one hundred thousand dollars in their bank
account when they start and when they leave their millionaires.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah, that's that's that's a that's a good trick on.
I gotta let you run because I'm up against it.
As always, Thank you, my friends. Thanks, talk to you soon.
Really appreciate you taking the time. When we get back
after the eleven o'clock news, I think I'm going to
change topics. Stay with me. I think you'll like the
topic coming up.
It's night Sime with Dan Ray. I'm telling you easy
Boston Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, we have occasionally talked about the whole question of
what they call out migration from Massachusetts, and I was
reading the Globe this morning in John Chesto, one of
my favorite columnists in the Globe, wrote a very interesting
piece saying, people still leaving, but exodus is slowing down.
I guess there's some good news there, John Chesto, how
are you tonight.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I'm doing great. Yeah, I'm trying to find the silver
lining here.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
You know, before the pandemic, we were losing a net
twenty five to thirty thousand people to other states. Now
this doesn't factor in immigration from other countries, which is
a whole other topic, but we were basically a net
loser to other states in a big way. But then
(00:53):
in twenty twenty two it got a lot worse. Essentially
the loss double to fifty five thousand.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Except that these people were working remotely and they decided, yeah,
I'd like it down here.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
In Florida exactly. You wait, a lot of people moved everywhere, now,
not just Florida, but a lot of places are cheaper
than Massachusetts. And so during that work remote time, we
lost a lot of people, and then it's been slowly
coming back. It dropped the loss to other states dropped
to thirty six thirty seven thousand the following year, and
(01:26):
now it's around twenty seven thousand, which is the recent
history pre pandemic and is sort of in the range
of where it was before the pandemic. So I think you.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Piece today you said that we have not been a
plus migration state. I think you said for fifteen years.
That would take us back to deval Patrick's first term.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Right, yes, our last it would either be two thousand
and nine or twenty ten. We had one year where
we had a net gain of about five thousand people
or so. And I've heard different theories on why, but
one my own personal theory is we during that time
(02:07):
was the Great Recession. In Massachusetts, believe or not, did
much better than most areas of the country, and the
Great Recession, we weren't hit quite as hard, we didn't
have as many layoffs, and so there were probably more
job opportunities here at the time.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
How do we do every year between births and deaths,
because that has to be somewhat of a factor as
well as mind is that.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Is the factor as well. And I can't remember the
exact number, but that you know, generally speaking are When
I looked at it, it seemed like we were in
line with the nation.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
And in that that the birth the birth rates are
slowing down, so we and we have the baby boom
generation reaching you know, they're not I wouldn't I hate
to say death age, but you know that there's a
large there's a big bulge in the population that's getting older,
(03:01):
moving toward retirement, past retirement.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
The baby Boomer generation, which I think technically started in
nineteen forty six post World War Two. Those first baby
Boomers are going to be turning eighty in the next
year or two.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah, but I don't think we're any different than other states.
The Lord and I can check the numbers. It's seem
pretty similar. So that doesn't really help us. But we
are helped by immigration. And of course we have budget
issues in terms of accommodating immigrants who are coming here
(03:39):
who don't have a place to live or stay, or
don't have a job. But there's also we have a
lot of high earning immigrants that move here from other
countries too. Because of the knowledge based economy does draw
people from all over the world.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
How does that break down between people who are coming
here legitimately on a visa, whether there are you know,
a doctor at one of Boston's major hospitals, are a
professor at a college, versus those who are coming here
without benefit of a visa.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I honestly don't know that the exact breakdown. I think
it's a I don't think it's overwhelmingly one category or another.
I think there's this, you know, substantial number of both
types coming here. I mean, obviously, looking at how much
we're spending on you know, you know what, do we
at one point five billion dollars or something in in
(04:33):
terms of almost in one year?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, no, yeah, but more than that. Actually, I think
that the governor has just asked for a supplemental of
four hundred yeah, gets us close to two billion. It
was projected all along going to be a billion a
year once this really kicked in the high gear beginning,
and you know, in twenty twenty three, and now the governor,
as you know, is looking at it and saying she's actually,
(04:56):
it looks to me I've seen some reporting that's suggesting
that that he wants to go back and review the
original purposes of the legislation, which I remember.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
I think, Yeah, I think I think there's a movement
to try to tweet that legislation that you know, where
the only state that really has this, you know, to
make it, to make it so that if you're if
you have to be sort of an actual legal resident
of the state for to receive these housing benefits, rather
(05:33):
than have it just be open to everybody.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Well, housing benefits in addition to EBT cards and in
addition to medical appointments, uber uber rides and cab cab fares.
There's this one company down the Cape, I think it's Centrual.
They got a no bid six point one million dollar contract. Uh,
you've got to live. You've got to have a lot
of cab rides to the birth through Oh wow, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
To get I mean, I will say that the contracts
that we've seen, and the Globe has done some significant reporting,
not me, but some of my colleagues on these no
big contracts. They're astounding just how much money is going
to you know, the hotels, going to the food prep companies.
You know, it's really really deserves a thorough scrubbings. You know,
(06:25):
there's a reason why we have bidding laws here in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, it looks to me like that the governor is
finally coming around to saying, wait a second, or what
are we doing here? There's there's no other state like Massachusetts.
Now she says, we're not a sanctuary state. But but
whether we are or not, in practicality.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yeah, we do have that law. No law exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Which was signed by governor to Caucus. I actually was
at the ceremony. The only reason I remembered is I
I watched a report of it on two or three
months ago, and I heard my voice asking the concass
of question. And I do remember that if you remember,
homelessness really became an issue around that time, but particularly
women homelessness. A lot of you know, women found themselves
(07:14):
out in the street, and at that time, again it's
forty years ago, people were shocked and said, well, wait
a second, it's one thing if guys are out in
the street, we kind of have women and children out
of the streets. And I believe that was the impetus
for the law, which was.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Did you ever expect back then that it would be,
you know, such a budget buster today?
Speaker 5 (07:37):
No?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
No, because it was always thought that, and then they
got into a controversy subsequent to that where they had
a lot of people they didn't have enough shelters and
they were they were they were housing people in hotels
and that became kind of a controversy.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Oh yeah, that's been an issue off and on, Well,
I think ever since really.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Exactly exactly, but no, this was never contemplated, the idea of,
you know, thousands upon thousands of people arriving here on
their own or being flown into the country, and then
that they would become beneficiaries of the law. The only
other there's no other state that has a law like that.
MI understanding is that there is in the District of Columbia,
(08:18):
which is not a state but obviously a part of
the United States, they do have some similar statute. And
I think New York also, the City of New York,
had some sort of statute which also became a magnet
when people started heading up to New York a couple
of years ago. And now that has fallen into disfavor
(08:38):
amongst the political leaders in New York. So John Well,
I got to take a quick break. I'd love to
see if people want to ask you a couple of questions,
and I also got a couple of questions as to
where this trend, Can this trend continue? And what do
we have to do in Massachusetts to reverse this trend
because we have the millionaire's tax, which is now on
(08:59):
the books. There are still people who were leaving Massachusetts.
Twenty seven thousand people and twenty in the year ended,
according to your column as I read it last last
June thirtieth, the prior fiscal year, fiscal year twenty twenty four,
that's enough people almost to fell Fenway Park, a lot.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Of people the other state.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, yeah, So let's see what if people want to
ask a couple of questions. My guest is John Chesto,
his columns in the Boston Globe. I read them all
the time. Chesto means business. I love that his piece today.
People still leaving, but exodus slowing down. Mass was once
losing eleven hundred people a week to other states was
just an extraordinary number during the COVID nineteen pandemic. It
(09:45):
has been cut in half, but it's still a lot.
Twenty seven thousand, and of course we won't have this
year's stats until the end of June. Back with John Chester,
if you'd like to talk a little business six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty six Poe seven nine three t back on
Nightside following these.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Messages, Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window
World Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
My guess it's John Gasto Busino, business columnists from the
Boston Globe. And John, obviously the trend the last two
years is in the right direction, but it's still a
disquieting trend. I mean, it's not as if we've turned
the corner here. What is it about Massachusetts? You follow
(10:30):
this more closely than anyone I know. What is it
about Massachusetts? How would you categorize it? Is it the
millionaire's tax which is still hurting us? Is it the
fact that the state tax structure in Massachusetts across the
board is less a kind or pleasant to its taxpayers
than Tennessee in New Hampshire? What is or is it?
(10:53):
Or is it weather? What is it?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Well?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
The biggest, the biggest issue is cost of living in Massachusetts,
and I would put housing as the primary driver of that,
you know, to the rents and the median home sales
prices in Massachusetts now, particularly in greater Boston are through
the roof, and there's no real sign of it falling
(11:17):
back even with you know, there's no sign that home
prices have not slowed come down, even though the interest
rates have gone up. So it's become so much harder
to buy a house here. I think, you know, we
see the biggest problem, the biggest problem area in terms
of about migration right now is the twenty five to
(11:37):
thirty four year old demographic. And I think you have
you know, up to that point, you're willing to kind
of stick it out and like four people buddies in
a three decker apartment, you know, you know, living on
top of each other. But as soon as you want
to think about buying a house or starting a family,
you need a little more space, you need one more room.
(11:57):
It just becomes almost impossible. Now that's the biggest driver.
You mentioned taxes, and our tax situation is not great.
Tax Foundation ranks us in the bottom ten, at the
top of the bottom ten. You know, we're better off
than California, New Jersey and New York, but you know
New Hampshire is in the top ten. They do great
and they do draw a lot of people from Massachusetts
(12:19):
because they don't have an income tax. The issue of
the millionaire's tax may not be chasing a ton of people.
That took effect two years ago, and we're still we
still don't have the IRS data because it even lacks
the sense its stata to see how many wealthy people
are leaving the problem with that is the people who
are going to leave are the people that probably contribute
(12:39):
the most financially to the economy, either in filling throfic
work or in just spending money. So that is chasing
some people a way. I've talked to a lot of people,
and you've seen some prominent people change their residency to
other states because of the millionaire's tax, which affects people
who earn more than a million dollars in any given year.
(13:01):
We also have a high estate tax, still one of
the highest, even after a reform that just took effect.
We have a pretty high capital gains tax too, So
those are those those sort of counting against us. But
the high cost of housing, it really is a tough
one to overcome. And yeah, the weather doesn't help us either.
(13:24):
I mean right now, it's what twenty twenty degrees you
know out here, you know, with the windshields a lot,
a lot colder. But I'll tell you I also did.
I was talking to a colleague of mine who's who
has a friend in la and she's her apartment is
or her house is not affected by the fires, but
(13:44):
she's you know, she's done with worrying about fires. So
she's wanted to see, if you know, look at job
opportunities in Massachusetts. So you know that we do we
we don't have when it comes to those big natural disasters.
We we don't have a lot of those, which I'm
thankful for. But the cold can be pretty inhospitable, that's
(14:06):
for sure.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah. No, I look, the worst thing we're going to
get around here are blizzards. I mean, I think I
have friends of mine in the Plaine States, and beginning
in April and May, it's like hurricane you know, tornado season.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
And yeah, I mean the hurricanes here. Really we have
not had like high death toll type hurricanes like you
have in the Gulf Coast that usually by the time
they get here there they've had a little bit of
the wind knocked out of their sales.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Why is it, though, Okay, why is it? In your opinion?
And this is my last question really that we have
this state where they try to tax people wherever they
possibly can, uh, and we have One of the things
that bothers me right now is you know what's going
on in New York with the congestion pricing, and I
(14:55):
think that's going to be coming to Boston. It's going
to be impossible to get into Boston between the like
lanes and if and when they introduced congestion pricing. Are
the politicians that they have that amount of avarice? They
just need more and more money to keep people on
the payroll. We looked at the globes U Mass Amherst
(15:17):
salaries last hour and it's like.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Oh yeah, pretty high.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah. I mean it was ten percent increase of the
mass budget with a decrease of I think it was
three percent or whatever in students. There's just a disconnect
that seems to me between the leadership on Beacon Hill.
I always thought that Governor Healy would be sort of
a a mitigating factor.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah, like a moderate check and bounce type on them.
And I think she's I think she's tried. She's tried
to be I mean really obviously you know as well
as I that it's really up to the legislature in
terms of what taxes get asked. She she did sort
of help. You know, there was a tax reform package
that didn't get done in the legislature before her, when
(16:09):
Charlie Baker was still governor. She helped get that across
the finish line. But you know, I do I think
congestion price. I mean, you saw what happened when her
state transportation secretary started making maybe too much noise about
putting tolls up everywhere. So there she she she knows
that there's a there, it's a that's a like a
(16:32):
third rail to use a transportation pun of politics is,
you know, putting tolls up everywhere and using suggestion pricing.
So she's very reluctant to go that direction. I think
it's some I know some legislators have been really trying
to because they they view tolls as an act of
it's unfair because commuters from the west are getting hit,
(16:56):
but not commuters from the north or south who benefit
from the big dig but don't have to drive through
a toll road. So I think I don't. I think
congestion pricing is going to be a tough sell. And
Beacon hild but I do think now that you can
just throw these gantries up and you don't you know,
that over the highway and you don't need to have
toll takers. I think you will probably see tolls on
(17:18):
some of the other highways eventually. It's going to take
time because you know, it's a real complicated federal process
you have to go through to the state. Can't just
decide to put tolls up on federal highways. I think
I think they're you know, I would say the Healthy
administration's cognizant of the backlash the state legislature. Some of
(17:42):
them are. But you know, you know, if you look
at how compare to Boston's budget increase, which was they were.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
Moving.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
You know, the wool administration just got through an eight
percent budget increase, including a one percent related to the
transfer of bp A onto this onto the city's budget. Uh,
the state was less than half of that. I don't
remember what the exact percent increase. Of course, the downside
is what you don't what what what you don't here
(18:14):
get added into the total until way later. These supplemental
budgets that pop up during like you mentioned, the one
that you know is being talked about for Yeah, so though,
like you hear about the regular budget that gets approved
always late, but usually in the summer, and it's like
a two or three percent increase. But then these sub
budgets keep coming through. So I honestly, if you're throwing
(18:36):
the sub budgets, we might have a lot more. I mean,
it's uh, and it's funny how that's there are these
We always still have a ton of money in the
Rainy Day Fund. It just seems like we might be
able to use a little bit more of that to
soften the you know, avoid avoid the I would say,
(18:57):
like any sort of increase because now we are getting
to the point where we're going to have to we're
talking about we need to do something about the MBTA,
and that's that's going to be a real painful discussion.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
They're talking about using some of that millionaire search share
tax money millionaires tax or tax money to prop up
the MBTA, which has a seven hundred or eight hundred
million dollar operating deficit. But I don't think that's going
to cover it all. Of course, there's probably some savings
to be found in the MBTA as well. And see
(19:30):
the state saying, you know, we really keep savings.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
John, in Massachusetts have a tendency of disappearing. I remember
when they went to they got rid of all the
toll takers, and I thought to myself, this is a
good idea, because whatever the number was, two hundred toll takers.
You know, you think about the pensions and you think
about the salaries. But ah, I don't see an yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
We didn't get we didn't get any benefit from that saving,
not a penny.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, or or or someone at least could have said, well,
here what the savings are. Again. Obviously there was some
infrastructure costs to put up the what you mentioned. I
forget the name of Gantries, Elbert Gantry, right.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Actually remember that.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
But yeah, I just don't get it. And I think
that that you look at all these numbers. We've seen
these numbers for a while. We've had Republican governors, we've
had democratic governors, and it just seems the legislature continues
on their merry way and they do whatever they want.
John Cheste, I love the piece today. I follow you
very closely. I appreciate you coming on and explaining it
(20:41):
because you make it understandable to people who might look
at a piece and look at numbers and kind of
gloss over you make it clearly understandable.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
And saying that I'm always happy to join you. It's
always fun.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Absolutely, Thanks John, we'll talk soroon. Okay, all right, you two.
John of the Boston Globe again, if you read the Globe,
you read the business section. He's a columnist who I
think really puts it on the line. This article today says, yeah,
things are looking better for Massachusetts. However, however we're still losing.
(21:20):
Last year twenty seven thousand people choosing. More people left
Massachusetts than came in. So I want to open it
up here for the balance of this hour. You listen
to John Chesto. Do you have any hope that Massachusetts
can can turn it around? I don't, Frankly, you know,
I don't know where else they're going to go, increach
(21:42):
the millionaire's tax, double the triple, quadruple the millionaire's tax,
maybe maybe increase the state income tax. Whatever. There's always
people out there saying those people need to pay their
fair share, people need to pay more. Well, you know,
eventually there'll be no people left to pay. Uh. That
is economics one oh one in my opinion. Uh And
(22:05):
maybe in yours. Have you ever thought that is going
to come a day when you're gonna just say sayonara
to Massachusetts and either head north to New Hampshire or
head south to places like South Carolina, Florida, Tennessee, or Texas.
Now again, significant change of people's lifestyle, no doubt about that.
(22:28):
But I just wonder how many of you out there
have actually thought about that or or are you committed
to staying in Massachusetts no matter how much how deep
the politicians dig into your pocket. That's the issue. That's
the question. You got the answer six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine three, one ten thirty.
(22:48):
My name is Dan Ray. What we try to do
one night Side is make you think. Okay, that's all
I'm trying to do. So if you're out there thinking,
I want to know what you're thinking. That's what the
program is all about. There's no one better than John.
You listen to him for the half an hour that
he joined us. Now it's time for us to listen
to you. Come back on night Side right after the
(23:09):
news at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
We're talking about the future of Massachusetts, and we had
in the first half hour of the ten o'clock hour,
we talked with John Chestow the Boston Globe. I think
the guy does a great work for the Globe, and
he I think put it in really good perspective today.
So my question took all of you out there, particularly
(23:43):
those of you in Massachusetts or those of you outside
of Massachusetts. Are you sick of the tax policies in
your state? I certainly am sick of the tax policies
at Massachusetts. I was born, brought up here, raised here,
worked here for my entire life. But I don't feel
(24:04):
a great loyalty to the state. Maybe you do. Let's
see what what others think. Six one, seven, five, four,
ten thirty, six, seven, nine, three, ten thirty. I'm going
to Bill and Danvers. Bill, you're here for the long
run in Massachusetts.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Uh No, I'm definitely not. I mean the implation slowed
me down a little bit from making maybe some moves.
But I mean I've been sort of looking at maybe
Myrtle Beach. Uh if they could fix some of the
insurance issues maybe in Florida. Uh, that would be even
a cheaper tax wise, but I'll pay a little bit.
In South property taxes are very cheaper Myrtle Beach. I mean,
(24:41):
I've been down a few times. It's uh. And you know,
I know the gentleman he had on he talked about
the housing price and stuff. I was fortunate. I've been
annoying it. But I tell you I couldn't buy my
condoc now if I had them. It's ridiculous. And uh,
you know, I'm a single guy. I mean, I don't
know how a guy with a kid or two and
(25:02):
the wife, I mean, unless they're really hustle and hustling.
I got friends of mine, it's very difficult. Some of
them had three kids and that's very hot. Also, you know,
we didn't talk about utilities. I mean, when you have
natural gas, if you look at delivery charge this time
a year, and that stems really from them killing the
(25:22):
originally I think five six years in fact, I talked
to Governor Sanoona one time he was on your program
because New Hampshire they would have benefited if they had
brought up they wanted and they wanted to bring almost
one close to New Hampshire. There was originally two they
were going to bring up out of Pennsylvania. Then they
tried one and then that died. But uh, not bringing
those pipes lines up here and the delivery charge and
(25:44):
the natural gas issues has really damaged the state in
New England. Actually it's unfortunate, you know. So you know,
I don't really hold out a lot of hope. I
don't think there's too many deep thinkers up and becon held.
They just want to get by one thing to the
eye there and cover whatever they got going on and
and and and eventually the music is gonna stop playing
(26:05):
because the people that are leaving and the most productive citizens. Unfortunately,
and I'll tell you this, guys, if you put in
the hotel is not going to make it.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah. If you want to talk about utility bills, check
out your your electric bill this month, uh and checked
out check out the supply charges. Those were the supply
charges on my bill. The supply charge was doubled from
like you know, zero point one zero to point two two.
(26:36):
And I watched that stuff pretty closely. So I went
back a year ago and there was no jump in
the supply charge. It was almost as if they said, well,
well we gotta we got to raise some aspect of
this bill. You know, I don't understand that the natural
(26:57):
the National grid bill has actually been more reasonable to
me this winter than uh, than it has been in
the past. But you're absolutely right. They wanted to bring
some pipelines into Massachusetts and we had officials from an
Astro grid on talking about that three or four years ago,
and they they said, hey, look, if if we don't
(27:19):
increase the supply, the price is going to go up. Uh.
And sure enough that is what has happened. So welcome
to Massachusetts. You know, how many how many more years
do you think you'll you'll work out here? What? What's
what's your target date?
Speaker 3 (27:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
I'm thinking, you know, it depends on how much they
increase the rent, you know, the overall bills. I mean,
I may have three to five years they had left
and then I got it. I have a second thing
going to the last few years. I'll see how that goes,
and then I don't know, I mean, I'll make this.
I would logically, I've always felt that I wanted to
(27:56):
keep at least one foothold here, you know, because I
do like my doctors. Then I mean, I've been to
a lot of places. We are fortunate still they have
the doctors we have, but the medical thing, and to
be honest with there's some of the food too. You
go to the different areas of the country, they can't
make a sandwich. Those are really the only two things
that I really have any passion for in the state,
to be honest, The roads, the infrastructure, you know, if
(28:22):
you maybe a few friends. But other than that, I
can't really say, you know, I you know, ultimately I'll
be buried there because I ever bought a plot, but
I just don't want to spend you know, the weather,
you know, I just I'm every year, I just get
round down more. And I'll tell you if they do
(28:42):
the congestive stuff, you know, going out of Boston and
the like they're doing in New York, and if they
really get crazy with more too, I may just get
to the point where I'm just fed up one day,
and if the lease is almost done and I put
the house up for sale and I'm out of here altogether.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
The thing, too, is that if you don't have to
go to Boston, you don't wanted to worry about it.
Just at pricing. I don't know, if your business takes
you to Boston, but try to drive into Boston now
the bike lanes have just gone over the top. They've
spent one hundred I know, I'm not a million dollars
on bike lanes in Boston.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
Okay, I'm you know.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
I going out around Cambridge too, and it's like, you know,
very narrow and uh. I went to the gym not
too long ago because I planed a fitness will depending
where I am, I have the bag sometimes, you know,
And I went to one a mass out by Leslie College,
you know, downstairs and back across the street. But get
in and out and the little streets around there and
the bike lanes, I'm like, you know, and it's the
(29:40):
dark night. You gotta take it slow and hopefully they
you know, the usually have these lights and the bikes
now they roll up and down. But I don't know.
It's tough if you take it streets that were done
over one hundred years ago and putting bike lanes on them.
And it's tough it was to putting it.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Does it make sense? Bill? I appreciate your callers always.
We'll talk soon, okay, when you when I decided to
let me know, remember you can get w BZ down
in South Carolina. We got a lot of listeners in
South Carolina.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
Oh yeah, no, I'll be calling them from the golf course.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Sounds great, Thanks, Belle, appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Yeah, six.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Eight, nine, nine, ten thirty or better. Yet, here's a couple.
It's easy, six one, seven ninety. Peg is in New Hampshire. Peg,
have you already left?
Speaker 7 (30:28):
I did, Hi, Danne, I haven't talked here in a while.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Right used to be Peg from Haveril.
Speaker 7 (30:35):
I know and Peg. That's why I haven't talked. I've
been in the process of a move right before Thanksgiving,
and it has so much to do with if you
remember some of our conversations. My rent had doubled, like
in the past couple of years. It went up amazing,
and I started looking for something small and I said
(30:56):
to the realtor, I can go to the the the
northern part of Massachusetts where which is where I've been,
or the southern part of New Hampshire. And when something
was found in New Hampshire, I set them in. So, yeah,
I am now a much Let me ask you just
give me.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
A rough idea. How much of a difference is it
in terms of I assume the properties. I hope the
properties are fairly comparable in terms of size and convenience
and all of that.
Speaker 7 (31:25):
Well, I have to tell you, in all honesty, because
I'm older, I'm getting closer to retirement, which is going
to still be a while because it's expensive. So I
purchased a mobile home and it's actually cheaper. It was
cheaper than my rent, and it's actually cheaper than some
(31:45):
of the mobile homes that I saw. And this one's
really new, it's like twelve years old. So and some
of them, you know, I saw in Massachusetts in mobile
home parks and they were more expensive, you know. And
I'm up here now and I'm like, oh, you know,
there's no more excise tax. I made sure that at work,
(32:07):
I changed it because now I also transferred my job.
So even though I didn't change jobs in New Hampshire,
I will keep my income tax.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Yeah, so waste.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
So you're still working in Massachusetts.
Speaker 7 (32:21):
Nope. I worked for a company that is throughout Massachusetts,
New Hampshire, New York.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
So I just transferred.
Speaker 7 (32:29):
So I'm in the same company, but a different store
in New Hampshire.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Okay, you had been working in Massachusetts, so you were
paying such a tax in Massachusetts So not only did
you improve you a lot financially from appointed from you
your living conditions, but now your salary is going to
in effect increase because you don't if they won't be
taking new Massachusetts taxes out. That's great.
Speaker 7 (32:54):
That is it is And I have to tell you,
you know, you and I've had conversations about money before.
You know, the rent was so much and I didn't
live in Boston. I was forty miles.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Outside of Boston.
Speaker 7 (33:08):
You know, Yeah, it's just it's too much money.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
When when finally people leave, it's just I guess the
last one out, turn out the lights and we'll be
all set.
Speaker 7 (33:21):
And it's just.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I'm so happy here. But I thought we had lost
you as a listener and as a caller, So keep listening.
Uh Oh was the mobile home and you want to
or one that that was? You know, is there a
marketplace for.
Speaker 7 (33:39):
It's twelve years old and there's actually quite a few.
I wasn't going to do that. I came in with
my adult one of my adult children, you know, I said, Okay,
we'll just do this together because he's never going to
get married. You can have it when I'm gone. But
it's big enough it's clean, and you know, it's welcoming,
(33:59):
and I'm not putting up with with the taxes and
a lot of the prices of things, and I have
to admit it's not a sanctuary, you know, city, and
I just feel a little more comfortable.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Good for you, Good for you. All right, congratulations, Peg,
We'll talk soon. Thanks so much.
Speaker 7 (34:17):
I will be calling you again. Thanksgian.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
All right, thanks bag.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Thanks, We'll take quick break. I got some open lines
here six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six
one seven, nine three one ten thirty. We're going to
hear from another high tax state, which of course is
on New York, our sister state here, uh in the northeast.
If you'd like to join the conversation. Are you someone
who is deeply committed to the to Massachusetts or wherever
(34:42):
you live, or are you now somewhat influenced by the
tax rate and the weather and whatever other factors are
making you look elsewhere? There are still more people. I
think Massachusetts has the fifth greatest out migration of any
state in a Marria. At twenty seven tho it's about
half of what it was the year before, not half.
(35:03):
It was half of what it was two years ago,
but more and more people, a lot of people are
leaving the car Multa, Massachusetts. Love to know your thoughts.
Be right back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Now back to Dan Raay live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Let's keep rolling here, gonna go to will and Long Island. Will.
I got a couple of callers behind you, so I
want to be a little quicker tonight than usual. How
are you, sir?
Speaker 4 (35:30):
Yeah, well this is pretty quick because you know, we
suffer from the same problems that you guys suffer from. Expensive.
I mean I moved from Nashville County about five six
years ago, the second highest property taxes in the country
and county wise, to the fifth or sixth highest in
Suffolk County. You know, the amount of property taxes that
(35:51):
I pay per year is someone's salary almost. It's actually ridiculous.
And the services that we get. I go to other
states like Florida and I asked them to have garbage men, yeah,
did police, Yeah, you have fireman? You have a yeah?
Well then how come you pay two thousand and I
pay twenty thousand. You know, there's a big difference in
my state and other states and I don't feel that
(36:11):
I get the services that they get in other states
for the disproportionate amount of taxes that I'm paying, and
it's a lot of the waste that's bad.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I have a pretty normal house here in Newton, Massachusetts.
Want to guess what I pay in property taxes?
Speaker 4 (36:25):
I would imagine something extremely high. Thirty thousand. Yeah, no, Dan,
let me tell you something I'm not. I'm not a
wealthy man, Okay. I have a regular business, like a
regular entrepreneur in this country. It's like having a job,
you know, and.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Sure that type of the last person gets paid.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
And I wouldn't even be so upset about it if
it weren't if I were getting, you know, a massive
amount of services as compared to other states. Because I
have family that lives in North Carolina, I have a
lot of family in Florida, And I got to talk.
The idea of being from New York is so much
better than the actual reality when you travel around the
country and people like, oh, you're from New York. Yeah,
(37:08):
there's nothing, There's nothing that's special about this. I gotta
be honest. I love the fact that I was raised here,
but I think I'm going to spend my twilight year
someone else. I tell my kids all the time, I
go when you get out of college. You know, as
you go out to college, there'll be a for sale
sign on the house, and when you come back home,
it'll be to a nice, really warm pleasure.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
And we also, well, I appreciate it, man, I really do.
Thank you much. Sometime next call. Thanks. Just keep rolling.
Going to get Betty in the boat. Betty, I want
to get you in one more in go ahead.
Speaker 8 (37:40):
Betty, I wouldn't move in a New York minute.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Well, you have a special situation here, you're living on
a boat. You got it figured out.
Speaker 8 (37:52):
I had it figured out. But my host for living
on the boat went from ten years ago about eight
hundred dollars a month, and now it's up to fifteen
hundred dollars a month. I didn't have to pay for
my real estate taxes. I didn't have to pay for
(38:14):
water taxes. I had it made. Electricity was included.
Speaker 7 (38:19):
Now there's a.
Speaker 8 (38:19):
Waterways tax now that you have to pay a mooring
fee on the City of Boston, even if you are
docked year round and you don't use a mooring.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
I pay Someone said. Someone said Betty on the boat
and people like her, we need to dig into their pockets.
That's what happened.
Speaker 8 (38:40):
Well, yeah, and they've dug deep, and you know, it
was a great retirement. But I'll tell you, Dan, all
I have to do is turn the key on and
I'm out of here. And the one thing that is
keeping me here in Boston is the fact that I
have wonderful services that I cannot find elsewhere in the country.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
And of course what type of services, what type of services.
Speaker 8 (39:06):
Well, for the senior citizens, I have the laundry service.
I have a lady who comes in and helps me
with the cleaning. I have, you know, so you don't
think that.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
In a more temperate climate, like a place like South Carolina,
that that service doesn't exist. I mean, I don't want
you to leave, Betty, don't get me wrong, but I'm
just saying that that I want you to stay. Don't
get me wrong. But boy, if they're picking your pockets,
that's not fair.
Speaker 8 (39:37):
I want. When my cat got sick, this is an
example of how bad Massachusetts is. Maya got sick with
renal failure in August and I took her to the
animal hospital and for two nights at the veterinarian hospital.
Do you know how much they wanted and there was
(39:59):
no guarante that she was going to live.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I'm going to guess one thousand dollars. I'm going to
guess one thousand.
Speaker 8 (40:05):
Dollars, seven thousand, nine and eighty two dollars and thirty
two cents.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
I would be turning that key and head into South Carolina.
Let me tell you, though, that's ridiculous. That is ridiculous.
Seven dollars or two nights for a cat. Oh my god.
Speaker 8 (40:22):
And I said, may I worked in neurology at mass
General few years and I said, may I see her
labs please? And I lift her the labs. I called
my very front and I said, and I said, John,
this is my problem. He said, whatever you want to do,
I'll stay with you. I was told this cat had
under forty eight hours to live and live. And you
(40:42):
know who just jumped off the kitchen table?
Speaker 4 (40:44):
The cat?
Speaker 2 (40:45):
The cat?
Speaker 7 (40:46):
I remember that, Yeah? The cat?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
All right, all right, Beddy, I got one more. I
got to sneak in here. I want you to stay,
but if you go, you got to let me know. Okay,
I'll let you.
Speaker 8 (40:56):
I'll let you be the captain.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
All right, bags, fatty talk soon. Let me get Warren
in here. One last of the hour. You got about
a minute and a half. Are you ready to stay
or you're gonna go? Warren?
Speaker 6 (41:10):
Oh, if I had the money, if I had the means,
I would be long gone. I would be somewhere where
it's not so congested.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (41:21):
And you know, like in the taxes taxes here, it's
return on investment. A lot of people feel like, Okay,
for the money that they pay in taxes, we're not
getting the services you know back, you know, like when
we're when we're paying for a legles to be in
(41:41):
hotel rooms, you know. I mean, yeah, that's kind of
it's kind of outlandish.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yeah. And I live in a city where last week
or was it last week, No, two weeks ago, I
literally spent half the day trying to make sure my
actually get picked up. I mean yeah, it's like it's like.
Speaker 6 (42:04):
Well, it's I mean, I work with people. I work
with people who are barely getting by, barely getting by.
I mean, you know, we're you know, we work in
a print shop. But it's yeah, a lot of these
people are just barely barely.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
More and more people just barely getting by, and and
I have no idea where all the money that we
pay actually goes. And I know I'm getting tired of it.
Speaker 6 (42:35):
It goes into the politician's pockets. It's ay amazing. How
how a politician one hundred thousand dollars in their bank
account when they start and when they leave their millionaires.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah, that's that's that's a that's a good trick on.
I gotta let you run because I'm up against it.
As always, Thank you, my friends. Thanks, talk to you soon.
Really appreciate you taking the time. When we get back
after the eleven o'clock news, I think I'm going to
change topics. Stay with me. I think you'll like the
topic coming up.
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