January 30, 2025 • 42 mins
Many of us have and use some sort of social media. Social media can be a wonderful way to get news updates and stay connected with friends but what happens when it becomes more than that? What happens when you find yourself spending endless hours online, unable to put the phone down or get off the computer? Do you question if your social media use has turned into an addiction that is affecting your life? Don Grant, PhD, National Advisor of Healthy Device Management for Newport Healthcare is a media psychologist, doctoral addictions counselor, and educator from with specific expertise in technology’s impact on mental health. Don joined us to dive into social media addiction and answered your questions!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's night Side with Dan Ray Unowny Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
By the way, before we get to my next guest
here on the eleven o'clock hour, I would like to
emphasize that we've had some really interesting guests this week.
We're about to have another one, but I would suggest
that any of you who have missed any Nightside hours
this week can go to Nightside undemand dot com. That
is our our one of our websites for what's our
(00:29):
website for our podcast. So the conversation we've had with
Professor John Ebel of Boston College the Weston Observatory on
earthquakes on Wednesday night at nine o'clock. We did a
couple of hours last night on the RFK cabinet hearings
as well as as well as some talk last night
(00:52):
of the DC plane crash. Tonight, of course, we talked
about the DC plane crash for two hours, and I
think we had some excellent callers between in both nine
in the ten o'clock hours and then earlier this week
on Tuesday night, we talked about the executive orders filed
by President Trump. And I know some of them are controversial,
(01:15):
but the executive order ordering that all the files, all
the nation's files on the assassinations of President Kennedy, Senator
Robert Kennedy's Robert F. Kennedy, and doctor Reverend Martin Luther
King be open to the public. That was both ten
and eleven on Tuesday night. Those were some great hours.
(01:37):
So if you need some on the way to work
tomorrow or during the day tomorrow, just check it out
Nightside on demand dot com. You will be thoroughly entertained
and perhaps even informed. I know you got This is
going to be a great hour because we had this
gentleman with us earlier this month. He's a mental health expert,
(02:00):
doctor Don Grant, and we're talking about people who are
literally addicted to the Internet, to all the various and
sundry arms of the Internet. Doctor Grant, welcome back to
night Side.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Thanks Dan, thanks for having me back. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Now give us a little bit of your We had
a brief conversation earlier this month. I think it was
the first week or the second week of January, and
I wanted to bring you back so that people could
ask your questions. In the eight o'clock hour. It's just
me talking with four guests, and I thought that, well,
(02:44):
I just was convinced that I wanted to talk to
you longer. What is your academic background? Give us just
that it's a pretty impressive background, but I want you
to share it with my audience so they get a
sense of who you are, and then we'll get into
the issue that we're going to discuss.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Sure, and I'll try to do this quickly, but I'll
say that, you know, my mother passed away a long
time ago. But whenever I'm asked this because I try,
you know, I get a little humble. I just always think, gosh,
I wish my mom could.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
She used to tell me self, praise is no praise. This,
this is just a fact right ahead.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
She would do a much better job. She She spend
a whole hour telling you about me, and I don't
know how much of it would be true. But so,
my name is doctor Don Grant. I'm a media psychologist.
I'm also a doctoral addictions counselor. So you know, I
have a doctorate. I actually have an Master's of Arts.
I have a Master of Fine Arts. I have degrees
(03:40):
an addiction and all of that. I'm also I'm a
Fellow of the American Psychological Association. I am the National
Advisor of Healthy Device Management for Newport Healthcare. I do research,
I write, I have trendous opportunities like this one that
I get to speak with you and your listeners today.
(04:02):
But I just want to make it clear right from
the top, which I always do whenever I speak or present.
I am not into technology. I am not anti devices,
I am not anti internet. I'm not anti social media,
anti gaming. Sometimes, because my reputation often precedes me, the
person that I am going to be introduced to says,
(04:22):
oh no, not that guy, he's going to take away
my PlayStation. I'm like, not necessarily calm down. So what
I teach and promote is healthy device management and the
practice of good digital citizenship. So it's about balance and
making sure that you know these devices and the services
and platforms and things they deliver are not something that
(04:45):
is detrimental or unhealthy or causing us to be unwell.
You know, there's a thing that I always say, and
it's the first slide of almost every presentation I do,
and it's from Henry David Thieaux, who in eighteen fifty
four wrote in the book Walden men have become the
tools of their tools. Now before I don't think the
(05:08):
Mistress the Roau had any idea about what we are
talking and devices of the topic and focus of our conversation.
But I just saw that a long time ago and
I thought, Wow, I feel that can be so applicable today.
Men have become the tools of their tools because all
of these things that we're going to talk about, and
hopefully your listeners will call in and ask questions about Dan,
(05:31):
these were, and I believe should be tools. But what
you were saying about how we've become so dependent upon them.
A lot of the work that I do, a lot
of the clients that I work with, whether it's the
Newport or my private practice, or with schools or communities,
it's the people will tell me, no, I feel like
this thing owns me. So I just wanted to put
that over an overview of whatever we end up talking
(05:53):
about today.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Makes a little bit great. Bag Boy Coast. You're on
the left coast, you guys are based, and where is it,
Santa Monics.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I'm in Los Angeles, Yeah, in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Okay. I hope that you have avoided the fires out there,
needless needless to say, and you're with this this it's
called Newport Healthcare.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Correct, Yes, So what like I said, I'm the National
Advisor of Healthy Device Management for Newport Healthcare. And so
you know, that's that's what my uh A lot of
my work gets to get to do through Newport and
basically Newport Healthcare. I can just just let me get
this done. So we have it. So Newport Healthcare, others
read you what they are. Newport Healthcare is the nation's
(06:37):
leading provider of evidence based behavioral health treatment for youth,
young adults, and families. Are we We're comprised of Newport Academy,
Newport Institute, the Center for Families, and Prairie Care. We
have a full content continuum of care. It includes residential services,
partial hospitalization services, intentsive outpatient services for mental health and
(07:00):
substance use disorders, as well as psychiatric inpatient services. Newport
is family centered, integrated and our approach FOSTER is sustainable
healing from a foundation of compassionate care, clinical expertise, and
unconditional love, with a primary mission to empower lives and
restore families. So that's what we are, and that's just
that's I just have it out there it.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Is, okay, so we've we've got all the information, all
the discussion, to the to the conversation, and that is
there's a lot of people who have changed their lives,
changed their relationships during COVID and after COVID, and a
(07:44):
lot of people, UH have now become much more reliable
on social media interactions oftentimes interactions which are simply observational.
They're not even interactions, they're observing of other people again,
whether it's Facebook or Twitter, Instagram or TikTok. And it
(08:11):
seems to me that if you become too dependent on that,
you lose your ability to interact with real people and
it almost becomes a sultifying relationship that you have chosen
to engage in. How far off reality am I when
(08:31):
I present that to you in that way, doctor.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Well, you are spot on. And that's a lot of
what I do. And that's why when I say that
I teach healthy device management, I mean, look, we all
know this. We live in this world. Everything, I mean
increasingly more everything has some sort of digital attachment. I mean,
if it doesn't, it probably will soon. It's what you said,
(08:55):
our reliance and you bring up so many great points
because I think that anyone who lives in the world
now and lives in has devices, which we all do.
They can just think for themselves. I mean, how do
they feel about it? How often do you reach for
that device when you're sitting anywhere, standing anywhere, even crossing
the street that is so dangerous in your car? How
(09:18):
often we find ourselves just uncontrollably reaching for that device. Now,
there's a lot of reasons, and we already know that
the developers and creators of these things, that's what they want,
that's how they were designed. They use psychological tricks and
leveraging our Olympic system and all kinds of things to
get us onto those devices and keep us there, because
(09:42):
attention economy is now one of the most valuable assets
if everyone wants our attention and to keep it, and
so getting us in there and keeping us in is
the whole goal. And I tell people, Dan, you just
had to remember, especially when you're talking about social media,
it's free. You're the product. These creators are not these
(10:05):
social medias that are not public services that they're offering.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, well, it's almost it should almost be characterized as
anti social media because the more that you spend in
that relationship with the screen. I think about, you know,
social as being interacting with other human beings or maybe
interacting with your pass even, but not with an inanimate
(10:32):
object like the screen. So look, let's take a break.
When I come back, I want I want to push
you a little bit in terms of how can people
maintain a healthy relationship with social media and how can
they know when that relationship is going in a bad direction.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
So you're asking all the right questions, I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Okay, well we'll get to those right after the break.
My guest is doctor Don Grant, prominent mental health expert
media psychologist. He will take your questions if you have
some concerns about the amount of time you're spending away
from human beings and with your devices, and you want
(11:18):
to ask a question, or if you just want to
ask a question about where are we headed as a society.
I got questions, but I will prefer to hear your
questions right here in North America's back porch. It's a
cold and it's going to be a rainy thank god,
not a snowy Friday here in New England. We'll get
you started. Stick with us. My name is Dan Ray,
(11:39):
We're here until midnight. We'll take you all the way
until the final day of January. We're almost through January, folks.
Spring is on the way. Baseball starts next month with
spring training. All's good with the world except social media.
Back on night Side six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty, six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty
and triple eight nine to nine, ten thirty. Back on
(12:01):
night Side after this.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Now back to Dan Ray Live from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
My guest is doctor Don Grant. He is a prominent
mental health expert with the Newport Healthcare Institute. We are
talking about your relationship with your devices, your social media devices.
My producer Rob just said to me he likes to read,
and what's the difference between reading and being involved in
(12:32):
social media. I think that in order to read, you
have to think. I don't think you have to think
when you're sitting looking at TikTok videos or reels on Facebook.
So how do you know When we talk about addiction,
Normally we think about drugs, we think about alcohol, and
it's very difficult to know when you have reached that
(12:54):
point of addiction in anything that you become dependent on
you know, we have you know, supposedly you know alcoholics
who are functioning alcoholics. They may be they may drink
all weekend, but Monday morning, when the bell rings, they're
ready at work. Theoretically, how do you know when maybe
your reliance on social media is becoming a little more
(13:15):
than it should be, Doctor Grant.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
That's a great question, and in someone who you know. Also,
one of my wheelhouses is addiction, and I have no
problem and it's I'm not that difficult to find online,
so it's pretty easily discovered. I've been in recovery for
a very long time myself. But you take up all
the point you're saying, I mean, they're they're fantastic, Dan,
So let's talk about the addiction or dependency kind of
(13:40):
where do we cross the inflection point. One of the
things that you brought up things like substance based addictions.
These are one kind of addiction, and very often they're
more overt. The signs and symptoms, the outcomes and consequences
they tend to at a certain point if someone kind
of crosses the event horizon, they become more obvious. Then
(14:01):
there's things called process addictions. These are things like gambling.
It can be exercise, it can be eating disorders, and
it can so these are a little more covert and
easier to hide for longer because they don't really have
the kind of overt consequences. They're more personal. So here's
how you know, and this is just how I do it,
because I'm a psychologist. I look at it of doing
(14:24):
a self assessment. And this is where anybody can do
this about anything, because it's up to you what you decide.
You don't have to tell anyone yet. So I do
it this way. I go in disorder, we look at
things of impact from biological, psychological, or sociological outcomes. So
(14:45):
what I mean by that is we start with biological
So is this thing that you're wondering, am I or
am I not? Is it in any way if you're
rigorously honest impacting your biological health, then you can look
at is this thing in the same way impacting or
negatively influencing or subjugating or impeding my success or my
(15:07):
goals psychologically? In psychological depression.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Jerry's biological health, I would make sure I understand what
do you mean by that?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Okay, let's let's talk about in terms of biological health.
That's something that let's to make it easy that you
would see a medical doctor for. It can be something
let's talk about. And I'm just going to go into
one deviceing I see a lot. So we're talking about
a hardcore gamer. This is a gamer who's gaming twenty
four or seventy two hours. I mean this exists. So
(15:38):
they might experience some sort of dietary issues. They might
even have carpal tunnel in their fingers there, I might
have eyes strain, and I see this all the time
because they're just sitting and gaming. So that's biological. Would
be for devices. We were talking back when we all
stared down at our phones Neanderthal neck where we are
(15:59):
all airing down in our devices and our next starts
to really hurt in the back. So those anything that
you would see a doctor, a medical doctor for. If
you find that this thing, whatever it is, is causing
you something that is physical, a physical you know, not great,
that would be biological. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
If you if you're literally are so drunk you've fallen
down a flight of stairs a couple of times a week,
that's a problem.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Uh, Well, the drunk would be the roses of the liver.
It would be all kinds of things, right.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
And also if in terms of gaming, if you find
yourself betting on NFL exhibition football games in late July
and August, you got a problem.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
You might be and that's gambling is a great example.
That's a process addiction. People don't think that process addictions
can be as serious as ones that are substance based.
Oh trust me, they can.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
So let's go to psychological. You explained that very well. Psychological.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Okay, what do you think? I mean, you got this?
What do you think a psychological symptom or response or
something that's not great from devices?
Speaker 4 (17:04):
What?
Speaker 3 (17:04):
What do you think it could be?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I'm not a doctor.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
No will I play on the day.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
I'll take a shot at it.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I'll take a shot at shot.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
If you walk by your computer and you can't ignore
the computer and you got to sit down and check
something out every day, every day, every day. I'm on
the a lot more than I want to be because
it's part of my job. Okay, But but if if
you're going on there to see the latest TikTok videos
because you're afraid you might miss one of the five
(17:33):
million TikTok videos that are put up during the day.
I think you got a psychological issue with TikTok.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Well, I'm gonna take it a little further. If you
say I'm just gonna watch one TikTok video, like the
alcoholic who says I'm just gonna have one drink, and
twelve hours later you're late for work. You've watched twelve
hours at TikTok and can't remember one video. But I'm
gonna talk more, really psychologically, So we're talking more about
things like, know, you you go on your doom scrolling,
(18:02):
or you go and you go on to anything on
social media, our platform, or even like you said, you know,
gambling can online. Gambling can have some other issues. But
we're really talking psychologically about things like depression, anxiety, trauma, triggering, things,
things like that, things that cause you to be mentally
or psychologically just regulated. We're talking a lot recently. This
(18:26):
is a big issue right now. I've been doing a
lot of having a lot of conversations about what I
call media saturation overloads syndrome. And I was talking to
a journalist the other day and we're just kind of
tongue in cheeks saying, oh, now everything is breaking news.
So I just want to say, for one second, when
I was younger, breaking news meant to zombie apocalypse, everything stops.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, or the breaking the news, or the president had
been assassinated. That's right, that's real break or whatever. Yeah,
you know, you're right, you're oh, yeah, I watched sometimes break.
I've worked as a TV reporter for thirty one years
before I started this gig, and we didn't have break.
I mean we had breaking news. We used to joke
about it. We used to say in our newsroom back
(19:09):
in the day, where news breaks, we'll fix it, or
if it happened today, it's news to us. We were
making fun of the people who were coming in with
all this stick. It was like, just let us be
journalists and cover real stories that we would say that
seriously happened, you know, because you got the broadcast force
that it happened today. It's news to us.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Well, breaking news what we were talking about. And I
think we can all agree now that's what breaking news
is a big deal. Now we're experiencing and I let
me just this is how it also applies to psychological
and could be argued biological. So now breaking news. Breaking
news now is stating there in the morning is obsolete
(19:53):
in two hours. So what we're seeing is breaking news.
Someone in the administration broke an ail two hours later,
breaking news. We were wrong. It's not a broken nail. But
what happens when we hear, as humans breaking news. I'm
just going to share with you that our lizard brain
can kick in, which is our survival brain, because we
hear breaking news and it seems like we've got to
(20:14):
be on guard that something is very serious.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
And so we have this Russians may have launched that's right.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Well, we don't know, but we hear just the words
breaking news, and that kind of the jarring stop breaking
news will send without us even know. I'm sorry, it
is Pavlovian. And what will happen is that in our brains,
which we don't know, is that it will be released
cortisol and adrenaline, and that will flood our brains when
(20:45):
we hear breaking news because we're sure that the Martians
have landed. And then so we have to realize that
when those things are released in our brain, it attacks
us and affects us and puts us on guard, and
then it takes time for those to go away in
our brain. So there's even just this breaking news thing
that's every two minutes. Now, we don't even realize what's
(21:05):
happening in our brains. So a lot of things that
social media or news or headlines, and these salacious headlines
and these catastrophic headlines and these images that now are
so available to us are having an impact that we
don't even realize is happening because of the neurology of
our brains.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And the other thing is, I'm surprised you're telling me
the Martians haven't landed. I was pretty sure.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I've heard that we're going to find out, because I
also heard that you were talking about that some files
are going to be released. I heard a rumor could
be hashtag fake news. We're also going to find out
and get some reports released about UFOs and aliens. I
heard that may be coming our way too. I'm very
interested in that.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Well. You know, there was the congressman from New Jersey
last month when they had all of the.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Drones over the drones.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Which I think it would be a lovely summer song,
you know, drones over New Jersey.
Speaker 5 (21:59):
You said it was romantic.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
This one Congressman said that they were being launched from
an Iranian ship off the coast of New Jersey. I mean,
and that was great the news in a while. Okay,
we got to pause here for the news of the
bottom there. I know, there's a third element we're going
to talk about, and then we're going to go to
a phone call six one seven, four ten thirty. That's
(22:21):
the best part of the show, always phone calls six seven,
nine three one ten thirty nineteen thirty. The aliens are here,
by the way, there are people who I hope one
of them call. Well. Let mean, I have had some
of them called trust me in eighteen years. The odds
are Hey, there's certain people out there. I mean, you know,
(22:44):
I don't want to get political or something like this,
but but you've seen people on television, and I've seen
people on television. Do you know the political guy James Carville,
the guy who's yeah, that dude's an alien. It just
look at them, look carefully, Okay. And I can find
some Republicans as well, you know, the Mitt Romney guys.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Find that out.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
We'll take a break. We'll be right back with doctor
Don Grant. I promise we'll get to the phones quickly.
Back on night Side. After this.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Night's Side with Dan Ray on w B Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
We're talking with Don Grant. He is someone who's going
to explain to us how we can get rid of
our over reliance on social media. There's a third element.
You talked about biological, you talked about psychological. What's and
was the third one? Sociological?
Speaker 3 (23:40):
You're reading my mind? You're asking such great questions. Is
during the break, I was thinking, wait, we need to
close the loop because we didn't. I was just thinking
that we got you know, so tie track with the aliens. Yeah,
So biological, psychological, then there's sociological. Sociological are our relationships,
our friends, are occupations, anything that is more outside ourselves,
(24:04):
but ourselves being mind and body and mind, bio and
psych then it's a sociological. And what I was going
to say because I never finished this because we got
talking about other things, which is great, how do you know? Well,
this is a personal thing. And I think that anyone
who struggles with anything or things, they may whether it
be substance based or process based. Including now there's a
(24:27):
huge thing with shopping. Online shopping is a new process addiction.
So well, how do you know? Well, here's what I
suggest you do. You don't have to tell anyone, but
really take a real, honest and clear self assessment and
can you identify anywhere across your health, mental health, bodily health,
(24:47):
or your social health, occupations school, can you, really, if
you're honest, say, these devices and or the platforms and
apps they deliver, are they causing an issue? Are they
subjugating you from your success? Are you making excuses you know,
to use them? And if you can find that if
(25:09):
you're honest with yourself, yep, I hate this, but yeah
that you know, those TikTok binges, I'm going on, those
YouTube binges, that online gambling, that social media across any
or biological, psychological or sociological parts of my life, Yeah,
it's causing an issue. Then you might want to look
into a deeper When I work with clients Dan, and
(25:32):
I'm working with them individually, I do this with them.
We go through it honestly, and I take them through
it and I say, let's go through these, let's see
where might this be causing a problem, And then you
can decide do you want to do anything about it?
Even a small change good stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Good stuff. The everybody understands if you're a if you're
putting a moment, if you're an alcoholic, whether you think
of functioning or not, the physical toll that will eventually
be taken on your body will take you down. I
think anyone who's smart does not want to. When they
(26:11):
say smart mean you know that they act together. No
one wants to become a drug addict. No one wants
to become an alcoholic.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I don't think anyone intends when they're young, oh I'm
going to grow up and be an alcoholic. I don't
want to be a junkie.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, absolutely so we're not making any judgment here. However,
the question is, okay, for the person who is addicted
to the internet, to social media, what is the risk
for them? I mean, clearly they are risks, but they
have more subtle risks then they probably guess can still
(26:46):
function in terms of work. No one's going to be
They're never going to be arrested and pulled over driving
and the cops are going to say, look, we don't
want to do a breath Eliza week, but we want
to how many hours have you been on the internet
the last week? But you know you've had But do
you know what I'm saying, I mean, how w does
that lead? I know where alcoholism leads to nowhere? Drug
(27:07):
addiction leads with the social internet addiction.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Lead And you're right. And the thing about even you
brought up a great point, you know, not it feels
like a while ago now, but there was a real
concern about people using their devices while driving and a
lot of states have instituted now laws of hands free
driving because people are driving around, you know, texting and
(27:31):
looking at their devices. So you know, we saw that
because again it was causing overt problems, crashes, you know,
terrible things, all right. And you're also there's a point
when something is so pervasive in a society, no one
seems to really care. We're all complicit. I'm gonna use
smoking as an example. Think about we used to when
(27:53):
my kids here, that we used to smoke on planes.
They're just a pall, they said, what do you talking about?
So when we are all complicit, then it just feels
like there's nothing wrong with it. And now you smoking
because no one we'd light up anywhere meetings, you know
where we were.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Yeah, there's some guys sitting next to you, you know,
blowing smoke.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Yeah, But I use the plane thing because that was
really the ones where my kids were like, in a plane,
I'm yeah, And then they had those smoking zones on
the planes and my kids were like, but it's blowing
through the plane. Yeah, no smoking, So until we realized
and then suddenly it becomes oh, and now people who
smoke are like you find them in the back of
(28:38):
buildings and hiding and so you know, but it used
to be because everyone did it, So now this is
so nascent. So now when everyone's on their devices, and
I don't think any of our listeners can argue with
the fact you can pretty much walk in anywhere and
you see everyone in what I call absent presence. We're
with other people in real life dead, and we are
(28:59):
all looking down ounted our devices, and we're so entranced
and enthralled. So it just feels like everyone's doing it right.
So what can be a problem. While you bring up
the other point, how do you know? Well, again, it
depends on what it is. There's so many different ways
people engage with their devices. So the social media as
(29:19):
I call them, are different than the gamers are different
from the gamblers or the shoppers, or work or whatever
it is. But you also have to look at where
are you spending your time. So I'm going to give
you something. This is something I came up with, and
we'll see what you think. And it's a real quick
kitchen test because to go through how do we know
what would be the sign symptoms. Again, it's to the individual,
(29:41):
and it also depends on what they're doing and how
they're doing it. I do believe that social media is
an amazing tool. As I said in the beginning awareness connection,
there are populations that are more marginalized, that can't access
support or resources in their area for idea of reasons,
or they have some sort of disability. I love I
(30:04):
have friends and family all over the world. I love
using social media to be connected with them. I get
to see what's going on with them. And I think
I shared in our last talk, I went back to
a family reunion in Michigan, where I was from. I
knew whateverone would have been doing, their triumphs, their tragedies.
I knew the kids, I knew the babies, I knew
the plus ones. That felt good. So for awareness for connection, however,
(30:29):
here's what I will say. Do you remember from school
the old five w's in an H? How right? Correct?
I took that and I kind of I appropriated it.
Please don't cancel me appropriated it, and I came up
with for devices to answer And hopefully this will quickly
(30:49):
answer your questions and hopefully we'll have some people who
have some questions as well. So here's what I suggest,
very simple kitchen table, five w's and H. So you
can ask yourself, why are you engaging with your device?
What are you engaging with on your I'm sorry, why
are you engaging on your device? What are you doing
(31:11):
on the device? Where are you using the device? When
are you engaging with the device? Who are you engaging
with through the device, and how are you engaging with
it or not? And if you can honestly go through
all of those why, what, where, when, who? And how
and you say, you know what, I don't see any problem.
(31:32):
Everything's great. I've never been cyberbullied. I've never gone through
a scrolling session on social media and come out the
other side feeling worse about myself and comparing and despairing
and wondering why. Guy Dan in Boston has all of
this stuff, and I don't in mind if you can
honestly go through those and you're not finding that you're
having it at the kitchen table or at dinner tables,
(31:54):
please with your kids. If you can get your kids
at a table and you're all on your devices. So
if you can honestly go through those, say no, dom
no problem.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I'm gonna get us some calls in here. I'm I'm
taking that much right to Let me go to Bill
in Pennsylvania. Bill, you're on with doctor Don Grant. Go
right ahead, Bill, we're talking about social media addiction. Go ahead, Billy, Bill.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
You knowing doctor.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I'm doing all right.
Speaker 5 (32:21):
I'm glad Dan has you on tonight.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Hey.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
Uh, Like I've always said, Okay, if I could drink
like a normal person, I drink all the time. Listen,
I feel you question. Okay, Uh, can you can you
speak a little bit? We know what we know what
the problem is. Okay. I just got my first iPhone.
I hate it. Okay. I had a flip phone all
(32:46):
my life and uh, but it was being by my
kids over here, so I got to kind of use it.
Takes good photos, but I hate the thing. Can you
just talk real? Uh, quickly please about spirituality, because I
think you know, all these devices are really cutting us
(33:08):
off from any spirituality.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Okay, you sound and I may be, but you'll know
you sound like a friend of Bill's. Yes, me as well,
So we'll leave it there, all right, I kind of
just got that. Well, all right, Well, it depends because
everyone has a different idea about their spirituality and it
is absolutely ours to decide, right, So what I say
(33:33):
is regarding It's what Dan said earlier. One of the
things about these devices when it becomes a problem is
when it disconnects us from ourself or others. So in
order to kind of look at what is my personal
or individual spirituality being disconnected, and that can be from
(33:55):
you know, whatever you have as a higher power or
a god, or whatever your spiritual thing is, as other
individuals who help you feel spiritual connection or community. What
happens is that these devices, in my opinion, can become
an insurmountable barrier that also can distract us, can keep
(34:16):
us disconnected from ourselves, and can keep us more interested
in what others are doing or what is happening in
the world that may or may not be true. So
that disconnection and to me and you can disagree because
I don't you know, I want to respect everyone's spirituality.
Disconnection to me is the opposite of spirituality.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
Yeah, does that make sense to you?
Speaker 3 (34:40):
And it can be disconnected from self, from whatever your
source of faith or higher power, or from your community.
That is spiritual connection. These devices are designed to keep
us isolated.
Speaker 5 (34:53):
Okay, good and thank you for that. And you know
Anthony de Mello. You ever heard Anthony de Mello?
Speaker 3 (35:00):
I have not.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
He's an interesting guy. Anyways, Thanks for answering that question, and.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Thank you, Thank you, Bill. We'll talk soon. Okay, Okay,
thanks Bill, take quick break. Here got Will and Long
Island coming up on the other side. We'll get him in.
Maybe you if you want to go Will, Bill, Will no,
we have that's Will and Bill. You got it. Back
on Nightside with my guest, doctor Don Grant, Social media addiction.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Back on Nightside Now back to Dan Way live from
the Window World night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
My guest is doctor Don Grant, prominent mental health expert
media psychologist associated with Newport Healthcare. Let's go to Will
on Long Island. Will welcome, Thanks for your patience. You're
on with doctor Don Grant.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Hey, doc, So yeah, I'm sober a long time now
from a really low place, and I'm listening to this
and I think, you know, the monkey's off my back,
but the circus is always in town. I could always
pick up another monkey, you know. And I just think
about like all the different ways that my addiction can
manifest itself, right, just not just my drug or choice
(36:13):
or drugs or alcohol or whatever, but in so many
other ways, right. So, I mean I've seen so many
people over the years that you know, I either worked
with or was in places with that like would get
through the physical addiction of alcohol, Benzo's opiates, whatever it was.
It looked like they were going to die, and then
a month or two later or a year later, pick
(36:34):
up again because the mental addiction is so strong, right,
So this is like completely mental. My question was, is
there enough studies out there to show the physiological aspects
of it, not just the damage it does from the
blue light and keeping you up, but the withdrawal or
maybe even serotonin dopamine levels, neual pathways, things like that,
how it maybe can affect your brain over time and
(36:57):
create a type of withdrawal like you have from alcohol
or drugs.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Sure, and that's a great question, and congratulations on your recovery.
I'll tell you, well, you bring up something I actually
was invited and it came out earlier this year in
the Handbook of Media Psychology, the Sciences and the Practices.
And I'm going to be honest, I really was so
busy I couldn't take on one more project. But they
lured me in because of what you just asked. Because
(37:24):
my specialization is device management and all of this, but
I also another one is addiction. They invited me to
write a chapter in this book exactly what you're talking about.
It is very geeky, I'm warning you. But what I
look at is the Olympic system. I look at the
addiction cycle. I look at how these devices have the
(37:45):
same impact and effect and how it works in your brain.
Because what you may know and what you know, we
know people are in recovery. We have to be very
vigilant about many things, but one of them is a
transference of addiction. So you see someone who maybe had
a substance based addiction, and then you know they're not
really vigilant, they're not taking care, they're not really looking
(38:06):
at what it was that the drug or drink did
for them, and they're not working on their mental health,
and suddenly they become restless, heirable, and discontent and they
had to pick up in their their shopping addict or
they're a gambling addict. So yes, there's there's some things
out there. But of course I would be you know,
a pool if I didn't say to you, if you
look at the Hambook of Media Psychology and you look
(38:29):
at my chapter everything you just said, it's scientific evidence based. Again,
very nerdy, but I discuss everything you're asking and illustrate
how it works.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
Well, it's amazing how you can, like you know, uh,
qualify for one twelve step program and then find out
you qualify for like so many others, you know what
I mean, like.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
For every one of them.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
Yeah, exactly, all right, Thanks doc, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Thank yous care real great question, and congratulations Will and
your success as well.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
Thank you, thank you sir.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Thanks doctor Grant. This was a great hour. It's exactly
what I expected. I should say, it exceeds my expectations.
How can folks get in touch with you? A lot
of folks I'm sure are listening toimes, say geez, I
like to talk to him, But talk to me either
off air or communicate with If you've got a website,
you got a book that's out, tell me how we
(39:21):
can struck.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Sure, Yeah, there's you know again, they're not they're difficult.
If you google dr you have to filter it dr Doctor,
Dr Don Grant. You can find all sorts of things.
There's also some videos of some presentations and webinars, all
a lot of skills and things that I do as
public service. So you can find all kinds of things.
(39:42):
But if you really want to get in touch with me,
the best way to do it would be to contact
Kristin Hayes. Kristin Hayes is my person at Newport Healthcare
the webst Her email is Kristen k r I S
T E and dot Hayes h A y E s
(40:05):
Kristen dot Hayes at Newport Healthcare dot com and she
can put you in touch with me.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Sounds great. I really do appreciate it. Again, I knew
you'd be a great guest. I probably spind it.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
You asked great questions. This was fantastic. You know. I'll
tell you Dan a lot of times I'll be with
someone and I the journalist asked me these questions and
I'm like, okay, you are fantastic. You are you hit
them all. I was like, this is gonna be great.
I love this guy.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Well, I appreciate it. I really do. And by the way,
this hour will be posted on our podcast page, which
is Nightside on demand dot Com within a couple of hours,
and you folks are more than welcome to pull it
down tomorrow put it up on your website. I thought
you did great and.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Wether it twitch is, by the way, a great use
of devices. See there's healthy device management resources.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Well I'm doing that because I got to tell you,
when I get out of the business, at some point,
I'm gonna throw all the devices away and I'm gonna
probably just climb into a into a cave and read books.
Doctor don Grant, thank you so much. We'll talk again, Okay,
take care. Thank you very much. But a great, great guest.
I really do appreciate his time, and I hope all
(41:22):
of you have appreciated it as well. I will remind
you that tomorrow we have big day. Check out Nightside
on demand dot com. We got some great stuff up there.
The last day of the month. We'll have a great
show tomorrow night. I promise we're going to talk tomorrow night,
amongst other things about we have a relationship specialist coming on,
(41:44):
so we got a lot going on, and of course
we'll talk politics as all will, dogs, all cats, all
pets go to heaven. That's my pal Charlie Rays, who
passed fifteen years ago in February. That's all your pets
are her past. They loved you and you love them.
I do believe you'll see them begin see get tomorrow night,
Rob Brooks, thank you very much, Marita as well. Have
a great Friday over when stay dry Sea Tomorrow night
It's night Side with Dan Ray Unowny Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
By the way, before we get to my next guest
here on the eleven o'clock hour, I would like to
emphasize that we've had some really interesting guests this week.
We're about to have another one, but I would suggest
that any of you who have missed any Nightside hours
this week can go to Nightside undemand dot com. That
is our our one of our websites for what's our
(00:29):
website for our podcast. So the conversation we've had with
Professor John Ebel of Boston College the Weston Observatory on
earthquakes on Wednesday night at nine o'clock. We did a
couple of hours last night on the RFK cabinet hearings
as well as as well as some talk last night
(00:52):
of the DC plane crash. Tonight, of course, we talked
about the DC plane crash for two hours, and I
think we had some excellent callers between in both nine
in the ten o'clock hours and then earlier this week
on Tuesday night, we talked about the executive orders filed
by President Trump. And I know some of them are controversial,
(01:15):
but the executive order ordering that all the files, all
the nation's files on the assassinations of President Kennedy, Senator
Robert Kennedy's Robert F. Kennedy, and doctor Reverend Martin Luther
King be open to the public. That was both ten
and eleven on Tuesday night. Those were some great hours.
(01:37):
So if you need some on the way to work
tomorrow or during the day tomorrow, just check it out
Nightside on demand dot com. You will be thoroughly entertained
and perhaps even informed. I know you got This is
going to be a great hour because we had this
gentleman with us earlier this month. He's a mental health expert,
(02:00):
doctor Don Grant, and we're talking about people who are
literally addicted to the Internet, to all the various and
sundry arms of the Internet. Doctor Grant, welcome back to
night Side.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Thanks Dan, thanks for having me back. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Now give us a little bit of your We had
a brief conversation earlier this month. I think it was
the first week or the second week of January, and
I wanted to bring you back so that people could
ask your questions. In the eight o'clock hour. It's just
me talking with four guests, and I thought that, well,
(02:44):
I just was convinced that I wanted to talk to
you longer. What is your academic background? Give us just
that it's a pretty impressive background, but I want you
to share it with my audience so they get a
sense of who you are, and then we'll get into
the issue that we're going to discuss.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Sure, and I'll try to do this quickly, but I'll
say that, you know, my mother passed away a long
time ago. But whenever I'm asked this because I try,
you know, I get a little humble. I just always think, gosh,
I wish my mom could.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
She used to tell me self, praise is no praise. This,
this is just a fact right ahead.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
She would do a much better job. She She spend
a whole hour telling you about me, and I don't
know how much of it would be true. But so,
my name is doctor Don Grant. I'm a media psychologist.
I'm also a doctoral addictions counselor. So you know, I
have a doctorate. I actually have an Master's of Arts.
I have a Master of Fine Arts. I have degrees
(03:40):
an addiction and all of that. I'm also I'm a
Fellow of the American Psychological Association. I am the National
Advisor of Healthy Device Management for Newport Healthcare. I do research,
I write, I have trendous opportunities like this one that
I get to speak with you and your listeners today.
(04:02):
But I just want to make it clear right from
the top, which I always do whenever I speak or present.
I am not into technology. I am not anti devices,
I am not anti internet. I'm not anti social media,
anti gaming. Sometimes, because my reputation often precedes me, the
person that I am going to be introduced to says,
(04:22):
oh no, not that guy, he's going to take away
my PlayStation. I'm like, not necessarily calm down. So what
I teach and promote is healthy device management and the
practice of good digital citizenship. So it's about balance and
making sure that you know these devices and the services
and platforms and things they deliver are not something that
(04:45):
is detrimental or unhealthy or causing us to be unwell.
You know, there's a thing that I always say, and
it's the first slide of almost every presentation I do,
and it's from Henry David Thieaux, who in eighteen fifty
four wrote in the book Walden men have become the
tools of their tools. Now before I don't think the
(05:08):
Mistress the Roau had any idea about what we are
talking and devices of the topic and focus of our conversation.
But I just saw that a long time ago and
I thought, Wow, I feel that can be so applicable today.
Men have become the tools of their tools because all
of these things that we're going to talk about, and
hopefully your listeners will call in and ask questions about Dan,
(05:31):
these were, and I believe should be tools. But what
you were saying about how we've become so dependent upon them.
A lot of the work that I do, a lot
of the clients that I work with, whether it's the
Newport or my private practice, or with schools or communities,
it's the people will tell me, no, I feel like
this thing owns me. So I just wanted to put
that over an overview of whatever we end up talking
(05:53):
about today.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Makes a little bit great. Bag Boy Coast. You're on
the left coast, you guys are based, and where is it,
Santa Monics.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I'm in Los Angeles, Yeah, in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Okay. I hope that you have avoided the fires out there,
needless needless to say, and you're with this this it's
called Newport Healthcare.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Correct, Yes, So what like I said, I'm the National
Advisor of Healthy Device Management for Newport Healthcare. And so
you know, that's that's what my uh A lot of
my work gets to get to do through Newport and
basically Newport Healthcare. I can just just let me get
this done. So we have it. So Newport Healthcare, others
read you what they are. Newport Healthcare is the nation's
(06:37):
leading provider of evidence based behavioral health treatment for youth,
young adults, and families. Are we We're comprised of Newport Academy,
Newport Institute, the Center for Families, and Prairie Care. We
have a full content continuum of care. It includes residential services,
partial hospitalization services, intentsive outpatient services for mental health and
(07:00):
substance use disorders, as well as psychiatric inpatient services. Newport
is family centered, integrated and our approach FOSTER is sustainable
healing from a foundation of compassionate care, clinical expertise, and
unconditional love, with a primary mission to empower lives and
restore families. So that's what we are, and that's just
that's I just have it out there it.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Is, okay, so we've we've got all the information, all
the discussion, to the to the conversation, and that is
there's a lot of people who have changed their lives,
changed their relationships during COVID and after COVID, and a
(07:44):
lot of people, UH have now become much more reliable
on social media interactions oftentimes interactions which are simply observational.
They're not even interactions, they're observing of other people again,
whether it's Facebook or Twitter, Instagram or TikTok. And it
(08:11):
seems to me that if you become too dependent on that,
you lose your ability to interact with real people and
it almost becomes a sultifying relationship that you have chosen
to engage in. How far off reality am I when
(08:31):
I present that to you in that way, doctor.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Well, you are spot on. And that's a lot of
what I do. And that's why when I say that
I teach healthy device management, I mean, look, we all
know this. We live in this world. Everything, I mean
increasingly more everything has some sort of digital attachment. I mean,
if it doesn't, it probably will soon. It's what you said,
(08:55):
our reliance and you bring up so many great points
because I think that anyone who lives in the world
now and lives in has devices, which we all do.
They can just think for themselves. I mean, how do
they feel about it? How often do you reach for
that device when you're sitting anywhere, standing anywhere, even crossing
the street that is so dangerous in your car? How
(09:18):
often we find ourselves just uncontrollably reaching for that device. Now,
there's a lot of reasons, and we already know that
the developers and creators of these things, that's what they want,
that's how they were designed. They use psychological tricks and
leveraging our Olympic system and all kinds of things to
get us onto those devices and keep us there, because
(09:42):
attention economy is now one of the most valuable assets
if everyone wants our attention and to keep it, and
so getting us in there and keeping us in is
the whole goal. And I tell people, Dan, you just
had to remember, especially when you're talking about social media,
it's free. You're the product. These creators are not these
(10:05):
social medias that are not public services that they're offering.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, well, it's almost it should almost be characterized as
anti social media because the more that you spend in
that relationship with the screen. I think about, you know,
social as being interacting with other human beings or maybe
interacting with your pass even, but not with an inanimate
(10:32):
object like the screen. So look, let's take a break.
When I come back, I want I want to push
you a little bit in terms of how can people
maintain a healthy relationship with social media and how can
they know when that relationship is going in a bad direction.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
So you're asking all the right questions, I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Okay, well we'll get to those right after the break.
My guest is doctor Don Grant, prominent mental health expert
media psychologist. He will take your questions if you have
some concerns about the amount of time you're spending away
from human beings and with your devices, and you want
(11:18):
to ask a question, or if you just want to
ask a question about where are we headed as a society.
I got questions, but I will prefer to hear your
questions right here in North America's back porch. It's a
cold and it's going to be a rainy thank god,
not a snowy Friday here in New England. We'll get
you started. Stick with us. My name is Dan Ray,
(11:39):
We're here until midnight. We'll take you all the way
until the final day of January. We're almost through January, folks.
Spring is on the way. Baseball starts next month with
spring training. All's good with the world except social media.
Back on night Side six one, seven, two, five, four,
ten thirty, six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty
and triple eight nine to nine, ten thirty. Back on
(12:01):
night Side after this.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Now back to Dan Ray Live from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
My guest is doctor Don Grant. He is a prominent
mental health expert with the Newport Healthcare Institute. We are
talking about your relationship with your devices, your social media devices.
My producer Rob just said to me he likes to read,
and what's the difference between reading and being involved in
(12:32):
social media. I think that in order to read, you
have to think. I don't think you have to think
when you're sitting looking at TikTok videos or reels on Facebook.
So how do you know When we talk about addiction,
Normally we think about drugs, we think about alcohol, and
it's very difficult to know when you have reached that
(12:54):
point of addiction in anything that you become dependent on
you know, we have you know, supposedly you know alcoholics
who are functioning alcoholics. They may be they may drink
all weekend, but Monday morning, when the bell rings, they're
ready at work. Theoretically, how do you know when maybe
your reliance on social media is becoming a little more
(13:15):
than it should be, Doctor Grant.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
That's a great question, and in someone who you know. Also,
one of my wheelhouses is addiction, and I have no
problem and it's I'm not that difficult to find online,
so it's pretty easily discovered. I've been in recovery for
a very long time myself. But you take up all
the point you're saying, I mean, they're they're fantastic, Dan,
So let's talk about the addiction or dependency kind of
(13:40):
where do we cross the inflection point. One of the
things that you brought up things like substance based addictions.
These are one kind of addiction, and very often they're
more overt. The signs and symptoms, the outcomes and consequences
they tend to at a certain point if someone kind
of crosses the event horizon, they become more obvious. Then
(14:01):
there's things called process addictions. These are things like gambling.
It can be exercise, it can be eating disorders, and
it can so these are a little more covert and
easier to hide for longer because they don't really have
the kind of overt consequences. They're more personal. So here's
how you know, and this is just how I do it,
because I'm a psychologist. I look at it of doing
(14:24):
a self assessment. And this is where anybody can do
this about anything, because it's up to you what you decide.
You don't have to tell anyone yet. So I do
it this way. I go in disorder, we look at
things of impact from biological, psychological, or sociological outcomes. So
(14:45):
what I mean by that is we start with biological
So is this thing that you're wondering, am I or
am I not? Is it in any way if you're
rigorously honest impacting your biological health, then you can look
at is this thing in the same way impacting or
negatively influencing or subjugating or impeding my success or my
(15:07):
goals psychologically? In psychological depression.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Jerry's biological health, I would make sure I understand what
do you mean by that?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Okay, let's let's talk about in terms of biological health.
That's something that let's to make it easy that you
would see a medical doctor for. It can be something
let's talk about. And I'm just going to go into
one deviceing I see a lot. So we're talking about
a hardcore gamer. This is a gamer who's gaming twenty
four or seventy two hours. I mean this exists. So
(15:38):
they might experience some sort of dietary issues. They might
even have carpal tunnel in their fingers there, I might
have eyes strain, and I see this all the time
because they're just sitting and gaming. So that's biological. Would
be for devices. We were talking back when we all
stared down at our phones Neanderthal neck where we are
(15:59):
all airing down in our devices and our next starts
to really hurt in the back. So those anything that
you would see a doctor, a medical doctor for. If
you find that this thing, whatever it is, is causing
you something that is physical, a physical you know, not great,
that would be biological. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (16:19):
If you if you're literally are so drunk you've fallen
down a flight of stairs a couple of times a week,
that's a problem.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Uh, Well, the drunk would be the roses of the liver.
It would be all kinds of things, right.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
And also if in terms of gaming, if you find
yourself betting on NFL exhibition football games in late July
and August, you got a problem.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
You might be and that's gambling is a great example.
That's a process addiction. People don't think that process addictions
can be as serious as ones that are substance based.
Oh trust me, they can.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
So let's go to psychological. You explained that very well. Psychological.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Okay, what do you think? I mean, you got this?
What do you think a psychological symptom or response or
something that's not great from devices?
Speaker 4 (17:04):
What?
Speaker 3 (17:04):
What do you think it could be?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I'm not a doctor.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
No will I play on the day.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
I'll take a shot at it.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I'll take a shot at shot.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
If you walk by your computer and you can't ignore
the computer and you got to sit down and check
something out every day, every day, every day. I'm on
the a lot more than I want to be because
it's part of my job. Okay, But but if if
you're going on there to see the latest TikTok videos
because you're afraid you might miss one of the five
(17:33):
million TikTok videos that are put up during the day.
I think you got a psychological issue with TikTok.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Well, I'm gonna take it a little further. If you
say I'm just gonna watch one TikTok video, like the
alcoholic who says I'm just gonna have one drink, and
twelve hours later you're late for work. You've watched twelve
hours at TikTok and can't remember one video. But I'm
gonna talk more, really psychologically, So we're talking more about
things like, know, you you go on your doom scrolling,
(18:02):
or you go and you go on to anything on
social media, our platform, or even like you said, you know,
gambling can online. Gambling can have some other issues. But
we're really talking psychologically about things like depression, anxiety, trauma, triggering, things,
things like that, things that cause you to be mentally
or psychologically just regulated. We're talking a lot recently. This
(18:26):
is a big issue right now. I've been doing a
lot of having a lot of conversations about what I
call media saturation overloads syndrome. And I was talking to
a journalist the other day and we're just kind of
tongue in cheeks saying, oh, now everything is breaking news.
So I just want to say, for one second, when
I was younger, breaking news meant to zombie apocalypse, everything stops.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, or the breaking the news, or the president had
been assassinated. That's right, that's real break or whatever. Yeah,
you know, you're right, you're oh, yeah, I watched sometimes break.
I've worked as a TV reporter for thirty one years
before I started this gig, and we didn't have break.
I mean we had breaking news. We used to joke
about it. We used to say in our newsroom back
(19:09):
in the day, where news breaks, we'll fix it, or
if it happened today, it's news to us. We were
making fun of the people who were coming in with
all this stick. It was like, just let us be
journalists and cover real stories that we would say that
seriously happened, you know, because you got the broadcast force
that it happened today. It's news to us.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Well, breaking news what we were talking about. And I
think we can all agree now that's what breaking news
is a big deal. Now we're experiencing and I let
me just this is how it also applies to psychological
and could be argued biological. So now breaking news. Breaking
news now is stating there in the morning is obsolete
(19:53):
in two hours. So what we're seeing is breaking news.
Someone in the administration broke an ail two hours later,
breaking news. We were wrong. It's not a broken nail. But
what happens when we hear, as humans breaking news. I'm
just going to share with you that our lizard brain
can kick in, which is our survival brain, because we
hear breaking news and it seems like we've got to
(20:14):
be on guard that something is very serious.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
And so we have this Russians may have launched that's right.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Well, we don't know, but we hear just the words
breaking news, and that kind of the jarring stop breaking
news will send without us even know. I'm sorry, it
is Pavlovian. And what will happen is that in our brains,
which we don't know, is that it will be released
cortisol and adrenaline, and that will flood our brains when
(20:45):
we hear breaking news because we're sure that the Martians
have landed. And then so we have to realize that
when those things are released in our brain, it attacks
us and affects us and puts us on guard, and
then it takes time for those to go away in
our brain. So there's even just this breaking news thing
that's every two minutes. Now, we don't even realize what's
(21:05):
happening in our brains. So a lot of things that
social media or news or headlines, and these salacious headlines
and these catastrophic headlines and these images that now are
so available to us are having an impact that we
don't even realize is happening because of the neurology of
our brains.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And the other thing is, I'm surprised you're telling me
the Martians haven't landed. I was pretty sure.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I've heard that we're going to find out, because I
also heard that you were talking about that some files
are going to be released. I heard a rumor could
be hashtag fake news. We're also going to find out
and get some reports released about UFOs and aliens. I
heard that may be coming our way too. I'm very
interested in that.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Well. You know, there was the congressman from New Jersey
last month when they had all of the.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Drones over the drones.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Which I think it would be a lovely summer song,
you know, drones over New Jersey.
Speaker 5 (21:59):
You said it was romantic.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
This one Congressman said that they were being launched from
an Iranian ship off the coast of New Jersey. I mean,
and that was great the news in a while. Okay,
we got to pause here for the news of the
bottom there. I know, there's a third element we're going
to talk about, and then we're going to go to
a phone call six one seven, four ten thirty. That's
(22:21):
the best part of the show, always phone calls six seven,
nine three one ten thirty nineteen thirty. The aliens are here,
by the way, there are people who I hope one
of them call. Well. Let mean, I have had some
of them called trust me in eighteen years. The odds
are Hey, there's certain people out there. I mean, you know,
(22:44):
I don't want to get political or something like this,
but but you've seen people on television, and I've seen
people on television. Do you know the political guy James Carville,
the guy who's yeah, that dude's an alien. It just
look at them, look carefully, Okay. And I can find
some Republicans as well, you know, the Mitt Romney guys.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Find that out.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
We'll take a break. We'll be right back with doctor
Don Grant. I promise we'll get to the phones quickly.
Back on night Side. After this.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Night's Side with Dan Ray on w B Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
We're talking with Don Grant. He is someone who's going
to explain to us how we can get rid of
our over reliance on social media. There's a third element.
You talked about biological, you talked about psychological. What's and
was the third one? Sociological?
Speaker 3 (23:40):
You're reading my mind? You're asking such great questions. Is
during the break, I was thinking, wait, we need to
close the loop because we didn't. I was just thinking
that we got you know, so tie track with the aliens. Yeah,
So biological, psychological, then there's sociological. Sociological are our relationships,
our friends, are occupations, anything that is more outside ourselves,
(24:04):
but ourselves being mind and body and mind, bio and
psych then it's a sociological. And what I was going
to say because I never finished this because we got
talking about other things, which is great, how do you know? Well,
this is a personal thing. And I think that anyone
who struggles with anything or things, they may whether it
be substance based or process based. Including now there's a
(24:27):
huge thing with shopping. Online shopping is a new process addiction.
So well, how do you know? Well, here's what I
suggest you do. You don't have to tell anyone, but
really take a real, honest and clear self assessment and
can you identify anywhere across your health, mental health, bodily health,
(24:47):
or your social health, occupations school, can you, really, if
you're honest, say, these devices and or the platforms and
apps they deliver, are they causing an issue? Are they
subjugating you from your success? Are you making excuses you know,
to use them? And if you can find that if
(25:09):
you're honest with yourself, yep, I hate this, but yeah
that you know, those TikTok binges, I'm going on, those
YouTube binges, that online gambling, that social media across any
or biological, psychological or sociological parts of my life, Yeah,
it's causing an issue. Then you might want to look
into a deeper When I work with clients Dan, and
(25:32):
I'm working with them individually, I do this with them.
We go through it honestly, and I take them through
it and I say, let's go through these, let's see
where might this be causing a problem, And then you
can decide do you want to do anything about it?
Even a small change good stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Good stuff. The everybody understands if you're a if you're
putting a moment, if you're an alcoholic, whether you think
of functioning or not, the physical toll that will eventually
be taken on your body will take you down. I
think anyone who's smart does not want to. When they
(26:11):
say smart mean you know that they act together. No
one wants to become a drug addict. No one wants
to become an alcoholic.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I don't think anyone intends when they're young, oh I'm
going to grow up and be an alcoholic. I don't
want to be a junkie.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, absolutely so we're not making any judgment here. However,
the question is, okay, for the person who is addicted
to the internet, to social media, what is the risk
for them? I mean, clearly they are risks, but they
have more subtle risks then they probably guess can still
(26:46):
function in terms of work. No one's going to be
They're never going to be arrested and pulled over driving
and the cops are going to say, look, we don't
want to do a breath Eliza week, but we want
to how many hours have you been on the internet
the last week? But you know you've had But do
you know what I'm saying, I mean, how w does
that lead? I know where alcoholism leads to nowhere? Drug
(27:07):
addiction leads with the social internet addiction.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Lead And you're right. And the thing about even you
brought up a great point, you know, not it feels
like a while ago now, but there was a real
concern about people using their devices while driving and a
lot of states have instituted now laws of hands free
driving because people are driving around, you know, texting and
(27:31):
looking at their devices. So you know, we saw that
because again it was causing overt problems, crashes, you know,
terrible things, all right. And you're also there's a point
when something is so pervasive in a society, no one
seems to really care. We're all complicit. I'm gonna use
smoking as an example. Think about we used to when
(27:53):
my kids here, that we used to smoke on planes.
They're just a pall, they said, what do you talking about?
So when we are all complicit, then it just feels
like there's nothing wrong with it. And now you smoking
because no one we'd light up anywhere meetings, you know
where we were.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Yeah, there's some guys sitting next to you, you know,
blowing smoke.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Yeah, But I use the plane thing because that was
really the ones where my kids were like, in a plane,
I'm yeah, And then they had those smoking zones on
the planes and my kids were like, but it's blowing
through the plane. Yeah, no smoking, So until we realized
and then suddenly it becomes oh, and now people who
smoke are like you find them in the back of
(28:38):
buildings and hiding and so you know, but it used
to be because everyone did it, So now this is
so nascent. So now when everyone's on their devices, and
I don't think any of our listeners can argue with
the fact you can pretty much walk in anywhere and
you see everyone in what I call absent presence. We're
with other people in real life dead, and we are
(28:59):
all looking down ounted our devices, and we're so entranced
and enthralled. So it just feels like everyone's doing it right.
So what can be a problem. While you bring up
the other point, how do you know? Well, again, it
depends on what it is. There's so many different ways
people engage with their devices. So the social media as
(29:19):
I call them, are different than the gamers are different
from the gamblers or the shoppers, or work or whatever
it is. But you also have to look at where
are you spending your time. So I'm going to give
you something. This is something I came up with, and
we'll see what you think. And it's a real quick
kitchen test because to go through how do we know
what would be the sign symptoms. Again, it's to the individual,
(29:41):
and it also depends on what they're doing and how
they're doing it. I do believe that social media is
an amazing tool. As I said in the beginning awareness connection,
there are populations that are more marginalized, that can't access
support or resources in their area for idea of reasons,
or they have some sort of disability. I love I
(30:04):
have friends and family all over the world. I love
using social media to be connected with them. I get
to see what's going on with them. And I think
I shared in our last talk, I went back to
a family reunion in Michigan, where I was from. I
knew whateverone would have been doing, their triumphs, their tragedies.
I knew the kids, I knew the babies, I knew
the plus ones. That felt good. So for awareness for connection, however,
(30:29):
here's what I will say. Do you remember from school
the old five w's in an H? How right? Correct?
I took that and I kind of I appropriated it.
Please don't cancel me appropriated it, and I came up
with for devices to answer And hopefully this will quickly
(30:49):
answer your questions and hopefully we'll have some people who
have some questions as well. So here's what I suggest,
very simple kitchen table, five w's and H. So you
can ask yourself, why are you engaging with your device?
What are you engaging with on your I'm sorry, why
are you engaging on your device? What are you doing
(31:11):
on the device? Where are you using the device? When
are you engaging with the device? Who are you engaging
with through the device, and how are you engaging with
it or not? And if you can honestly go through
all of those why, what, where, when, who? And how
and you say, you know what, I don't see any problem.
(31:32):
Everything's great. I've never been cyberbullied. I've never gone through
a scrolling session on social media and come out the
other side feeling worse about myself and comparing and despairing
and wondering why. Guy Dan in Boston has all of
this stuff, and I don't in mind if you can
honestly go through those and you're not finding that you're
having it at the kitchen table or at dinner tables,
(31:54):
please with your kids. If you can get your kids
at a table and you're all on your devices. So
if you can honestly go through those, say no, dom
no problem.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I'm gonna get us some calls in here. I'm I'm
taking that much right to Let me go to Bill
in Pennsylvania. Bill, you're on with doctor Don Grant. Go
right ahead, Bill, we're talking about social media addiction. Go ahead, Billy, Bill.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
You knowing doctor.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I'm doing all right.
Speaker 5 (32:21):
I'm glad Dan has you on tonight.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Hey.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
Uh, Like I've always said, Okay, if I could drink
like a normal person, I drink all the time. Listen,
I feel you question. Okay, Uh, can you can you
speak a little bit? We know what we know what
the problem is. Okay. I just got my first iPhone.
I hate it. Okay. I had a flip phone all
(32:46):
my life and uh, but it was being by my
kids over here, so I got to kind of use it.
Takes good photos, but I hate the thing. Can you
just talk real? Uh, quickly please about spirituality, because I
think you know, all these devices are really cutting us
(33:08):
off from any spirituality.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Okay, you sound and I may be, but you'll know
you sound like a friend of Bill's. Yes, me as well,
So we'll leave it there, all right, I kind of
just got that. Well, all right, Well, it depends because
everyone has a different idea about their spirituality and it
is absolutely ours to decide, right, So what I say
(33:33):
is regarding It's what Dan said earlier. One of the
things about these devices when it becomes a problem is
when it disconnects us from ourself or others. So in
order to kind of look at what is my personal
or individual spirituality being disconnected, and that can be from
(33:55):
you know, whatever you have as a higher power or
a god, or whatever your spiritual thing is, as other
individuals who help you feel spiritual connection or community. What
happens is that these devices, in my opinion, can become
an insurmountable barrier that also can distract us, can keep
(34:16):
us disconnected from ourselves, and can keep us more interested
in what others are doing or what is happening in
the world that may or may not be true. So
that disconnection and to me and you can disagree because
I don't you know, I want to respect everyone's spirituality.
Disconnection to me is the opposite of spirituality.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
Yeah, does that make sense to you?
Speaker 3 (34:40):
And it can be disconnected from self, from whatever your
source of faith or higher power, or from your community.
That is spiritual connection. These devices are designed to keep
us isolated.
Speaker 5 (34:53):
Okay, good and thank you for that. And you know
Anthony de Mello. You ever heard Anthony de Mello?
Speaker 3 (35:00):
I have not.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
He's an interesting guy. Anyways, Thanks for answering that question, and.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Thank you, Thank you, Bill. We'll talk soon. Okay, Okay,
thanks Bill, take quick break. Here got Will and Long
Island coming up on the other side. We'll get him in.
Maybe you if you want to go Will, Bill, Will no,
we have that's Will and Bill. You got it. Back
on Nightside with my guest, doctor Don Grant, Social media addiction.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Back on Nightside Now back to Dan Way live from
the Window World night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
My guest is doctor Don Grant, prominent mental health expert
media psychologist associated with Newport Healthcare. Let's go to Will
on Long Island. Will welcome, Thanks for your patience. You're
on with doctor Don Grant.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Hey, doc, So yeah, I'm sober a long time now
from a really low place, and I'm listening to this
and I think, you know, the monkey's off my back,
but the circus is always in town. I could always
pick up another monkey, you know. And I just think
about like all the different ways that my addiction can
manifest itself, right, just not just my drug or choice
(36:13):
or drugs or alcohol or whatever, but in so many
other ways, right. So, I mean I've seen so many
people over the years that you know, I either worked
with or was in places with that like would get
through the physical addiction of alcohol, Benzo's opiates, whatever it was.
It looked like they were going to die, and then
a month or two later or a year later, pick
(36:34):
up again because the mental addiction is so strong, right,
So this is like completely mental. My question was, is
there enough studies out there to show the physiological aspects
of it, not just the damage it does from the
blue light and keeping you up, but the withdrawal or
maybe even serotonin dopamine levels, neual pathways, things like that,
how it maybe can affect your brain over time and
(36:57):
create a type of withdrawal like you have from alcohol
or drugs.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Sure, and that's a great question, and congratulations on your recovery.
I'll tell you, well, you bring up something I actually
was invited and it came out earlier this year in
the Handbook of Media Psychology, the Sciences and the Practices.
And I'm going to be honest, I really was so
busy I couldn't take on one more project. But they
lured me in because of what you just asked. Because
(37:24):
my specialization is device management and all of this, but
I also another one is addiction. They invited me to
write a chapter in this book exactly what you're talking about.
It is very geeky, I'm warning you. But what I
look at is the Olympic system. I look at the
addiction cycle. I look at how these devices have the
(37:45):
same impact and effect and how it works in your brain.
Because what you may know and what you know, we
know people are in recovery. We have to be very
vigilant about many things, but one of them is a
transference of addiction. So you see someone who maybe had
a substance based addiction, and then you know they're not
really vigilant, they're not taking care, they're not really looking
(38:06):
at what it was that the drug or drink did
for them, and they're not working on their mental health,
and suddenly they become restless, heirable, and discontent and they
had to pick up in their their shopping addict or
they're a gambling addict. So yes, there's there's some things
out there. But of course I would be you know,
a pool if I didn't say to you, if you
look at the Hambook of Media Psychology and you look
(38:29):
at my chapter everything you just said, it's scientific evidence based. Again,
very nerdy, but I discuss everything you're asking and illustrate
how it works.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
Well, it's amazing how you can, like you know, uh,
qualify for one twelve step program and then find out
you qualify for like so many others, you know what
I mean, like.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
For every one of them.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
Yeah, exactly, all right, Thanks doc, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Thank yous care real great question, and congratulations Will and
your success as well.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
Thank you, thank you sir.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Thanks doctor Grant. This was a great hour. It's exactly
what I expected. I should say, it exceeds my expectations.
How can folks get in touch with you? A lot
of folks I'm sure are listening toimes, say geez, I
like to talk to him, But talk to me either
off air or communicate with If you've got a website,
you got a book that's out, tell me how we
(39:21):
can struck.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Sure, Yeah, there's you know again, they're not they're difficult.
If you google dr you have to filter it dr Doctor,
Dr Don Grant. You can find all sorts of things.
There's also some videos of some presentations and webinars, all
a lot of skills and things that I do as
public service. So you can find all kinds of things.
(39:42):
But if you really want to get in touch with me,
the best way to do it would be to contact
Kristin Hayes. Kristin Hayes is my person at Newport Healthcare
the webst Her email is Kristen k r I S
T E and dot Hayes h A y E s
(40:05):
Kristen dot Hayes at Newport Healthcare dot com and she
can put you in touch with me.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Sounds great. I really do appreciate it. Again, I knew
you'd be a great guest. I probably spind it.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
You asked great questions. This was fantastic. You know. I'll
tell you Dan a lot of times I'll be with
someone and I the journalist asked me these questions and
I'm like, okay, you are fantastic. You are you hit
them all. I was like, this is gonna be great.
I love this guy.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Well, I appreciate it. I really do. And by the way,
this hour will be posted on our podcast page, which
is Nightside on demand dot Com within a couple of hours,
and you folks are more than welcome to pull it
down tomorrow put it up on your website. I thought
you did great and.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Wether it twitch is, by the way, a great use
of devices. See there's healthy device management resources.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Well I'm doing that because I got to tell you,
when I get out of the business, at some point,
I'm gonna throw all the devices away and I'm gonna
probably just climb into a into a cave and read books.
Doctor don Grant, thank you so much. We'll talk again, Okay,
take care. Thank you very much. But a great, great guest.
I really do appreciate his time, and I hope all
(41:22):
of you have appreciated it as well. I will remind
you that tomorrow we have big day. Check out Nightside
on demand dot com. We got some great stuff up there.
The last day of the month. We'll have a great
show tomorrow night. I promise we're going to talk tomorrow night,
amongst other things about we have a relationship specialist coming on,
(41:44):
so we got a lot going on, and of course
we'll talk politics as all will, dogs, all cats, all
pets go to heaven. That's my pal Charlie Rays, who
passed fifteen years ago in February. That's all your pets
are her past. They loved you and you love them.
I do believe you'll see them begin see get tomorrow night,
Rob Brooks, thank you very much, Marita as well. Have
a great Friday over when stay dry Sea Tomorrow night
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