February 5, 2025 • 39 mins
Gary Tanguay Fills In On NightSide with Dan Rea
The United States is home to an estimated 1,150 malls; some sources project that by 2032, there may be as few as 150 malls still in operation. With the popularity and convenience of online shopping, what’s the future of in-person shopping? Todd Finard, a real estate developer, joined Gary to discuss.
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio and listen to NightSide with Dan Rea Weeknights From 8PM-12AM!
The United States is home to an estimated 1,150 malls; some sources project that by 2032, there may be as few as 150 malls still in operation. With the popularity and convenience of online shopping, what’s the future of in-person shopping? Todd Finard, a real estate developer, joined Gary to discuss.
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio and listen to NightSide with Dan Rea Weeknights From 8PM-12AM!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Bazy, Coston's
Me Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Dan, thank you very much, my friends. Okay, now we're
going to talk about the future of in person shopping.
And I had an experience the other day. I was
with my wife and my thirteen year old daughter going
on eighteen, and they needed to go to a mall.
We went into the Prudential Mall here in Boston and
I actually enjoyed it, and that's why I wanted to
(00:26):
talk about this. So I said, who's an expert in this?
Cousin Todd. Cousin Todd is an expert. Yes, full disclosure,
that's what we do on the show. I like to
have friends and relatives on this show as much as possible.
And my cousin Todd is Todd Fernard, CEO of Fernard Properties,
and this has been his family's business for three generations.
(00:47):
So let's just where are we right now as far
as the situation with in person shopping versus online shop
Because based on my experience, I still think people will
want to go into stores, but it's just going to
(01:09):
be different.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Your thoughts, well, I'll start off by saying this, of
course they want to go to stores. We're social, we're
social creatures. We want to be around other people. We
want to I mean, food courts may have died a
long time ago, but the whole idea of a place
where teenagers, senior citizens everyone in between want to go
(01:31):
and kind of uh, you know, be in a control,
a climate, controlled environment with other people. I think in general,
that's kind of a a concept that isn't dead. But
my goodness, you're you're asking a wildly complicated question and.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
You got an hour, We got plenty of time.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, all right, well then let's go.
I mean, look, if you look at every different area
within sort of the world of real estate, whether that
a mall that you visited, whether it's an office building,
whether it's a shopping center, a hotel, every part of
our sort of world of real estate is under some
sort of attack. Retail is, you know, arguably a sort
(02:16):
of the online concept. And how will that compete offices?
I mean, who wants to go to an office? What
is an office building all about?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Today?
Speaker 4 (02:26):
I mean, hotels.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Are they kind of roared back after COVID, but Airbnb
and vrbo are kind of, you know, attacking from each side.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
On hotels.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
So the funny thing about real estate in general today
is it's all kind of in flux, and so I'm
not shocked at all that you went to the mall
and had a great time. They are folks at Boston
Properties and some of the other bigger, better sort of
mall owners in the country are doing everything they can
possibly do to make this entertaining and make it interesting
(03:00):
and make it compelling enough for you to get up
off the couch where you can just shop on your phone.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
You mentioned a good point about it being a place
to gather, because I'm not quite in the mall walking
mode yet. Okay enough, but I do yes, yeah, thanks pal,
But I do have a thirteen year old daughter that
wants to be dropped at them all of course.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah, now that that's I mean, the retail is a
pretty inventive, imaginative place, the sort of the landscape of retail,
and so we within the business of filling retail space
are looking to all kinds of different sort of entertainment
(03:45):
ish uses. And that could be pickleball, it could be
you know, ping pong. There's a ping pong place right
near the garden. The other night, it's just wild looking.
It could be music, it could be whiskey bars with
with you know, live music. It could be a karaoke bar.
But they're doing whatever they can do to find uses
that are you know, entertaining.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Well.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I think specialty stores are are very important. For example,
one of my kids, i mean van sneakerhead, and so
the types of sneakers that kids want to buy now
you cannot you you can't buy on Yeah, I mean
you can go. I mean if you if you need
a pair of running shoes or whatever you're gonna and
you know the kids size, but I mean I'm talking
(04:28):
about the sneakers that they don't take out of the box.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Right right, right, right right.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I mean I mean there's the you know, the hidden
bodega in Boston is famous, uh for the you know
the back room, which.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I'm sure, yeah, I've been dragged there too, but you know,
to me, it's those type of specialty stores todd where
you don't get the same feeling when you're online, you know,
you know, like like my wife the other day, she
wanted to try on a pair of sneakers, but h
they weren't the type of sneakers. Of course, as you
would know that you would get a DIX. I won't
(05:04):
mention the brand, but Golden was in the name. Yeah,
so you can't buy those on them. I mean you can,
but that's that's not part of the experience. You want
to go and you want to have somebody with I mean,
customer service is more important than ever and staffing is
a problem, right, I mean.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
That's listen, Yeah, that's that's a whole other category of issue.
But you know the thing of it is, we spent years,
decades trying to fill our shopping centers with the highest
grade tenant we could get our hands on, the highest
grade credit tenant we could get our hands on, and
then the bigger national brand, the better because your lender
(05:44):
would look at you and say, well, that's a valuable tenant.
They're going to pay their rent. And you know, if
you want to have a credible mall, then you got
to have a radio shack or that went away, and
then you got to have a gap, and then that
went away, and then you got to have I mean,
that's just been what it's been. But today and you
were this is where I thought you were going. The
one of a kind, the unique. You can only get
(06:04):
that here. That's like that's gold today, and so it's
in some ways it's it's kind of poetic because it's
gone back to being a local business with with you know,
if they if that butcher does it better, well, I'd
much rather go there than you know, with all due
respect to the you know, the the butcher counter at
(06:24):
Roach Brothers or something like that.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So do you think that the space or do you
think that malls will decrease but rent will decrease, rent
will increase, so there will be fewer malls. However, the
malls that are still in operation will hire have a
higher level of service or a more specialized service.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
It depends, as the answer I mean to say, the
mall is you know, the the the the experience that
you'd have at the Prudential Mall or the experience you'd
have at the Natick Mall is wildly different than the
experience that you might have at the Solomon Pond Mall
or the Greendale Mall in Worcester was a mall that
(07:07):
its best days were behind it. Our company purchased that
mall and we ended up constructing something very different there.
But you know, there are malls that have died or
or are on their way to dying, and then there
are malls that are you know, in some ways the
ownership group has had the capital or the or the
(07:28):
connectedness or the or the leasing prowess to turn some
of the spaces and evolve them as fast as they
possibly can evolve them. So, I mean the prew is
a great example. It was it was it's a new
enough ish product, but they've been filling that with innovative
uses sort of, you know, as quick as they can
(07:50):
find them.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
You mentioned the Greendale Mall in Worcester, maam man. That
is a flashback for me. I think there's a leech
Mere there at one point when I was starting in Worcester.
I don't want to put you on a spot. What
did you end up doing though, Did you end up
constructing another type of building or did you kind of
reinvent it.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Admittedly, we had thought about reinventing it, and the plan
that we had put together in twenty nineteen was wildly
disrupted by COVID, by COVID, by COVID. But it's a
valuable site. It's a great piece of land, and the
folks at Amazon determined that it was a great place
to put a last mileth distribution facility, and so we
(08:32):
built that for them.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So here's another thing when you talk about for example,
I had I had to go to a couple of
stores today and I was looking. Sometimes, especially when it
comes to technology, right, I don't want to buy something online.
I get it, you know, I need to have somebody
tell me.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
There are a lot I mean for everybody individually. I
think there are a lot of purchases that sort of
categorically you'd say in that area, I want to touch it,
or I want someone to explain it to me or
or I mean, we were talking one time about trying
to sort of find all of the unamazonable uses that
that we feel like are sort of Amazon proof, you know,
(09:17):
and try to fill your shopping center with Amazon proof concepts.
But but yeah, I mean electronics. It's funny for you,
it may be electronics for someone else. I mean, I've
seen people buy electronics out of vending machines now.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Oh I know. Yeah, it's crazy. Like I was just
looking for printer cartridges, you know, and I don't want
to buy I don't. Well maybe I'm not. I'm not
the vest.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Exist No, it's not I'm not laughing at you. I'm
just laughing at the fact that that's like the biggest
racket on the face of the earth. That's another another minute.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Wait, a printed cartridge.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah, so he's a printer for seventy five bucks, but
then it's like fifty bucks every time you want to
change in the incame you pro.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Oh yeah, well that's true. And I found that out
today is I had to go to two locations because
one of the problems because they expect people to buy
it online, they don't have the inventory in.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
The store, right right right.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
That happens all the time. So I don't feel so
for some of these retailers. And I'm talking about just that,
you know, the the office retail store where you can
buy things online. I'll go in because I want to
see it, feel to touch it. They don't have it,
but I can buy it online. It's just going to
take me three days to get it. So there must
be a whole You may not have the answer to
this one, but like, there must be a whole formula
(10:29):
for companies to decide how much they keep in the
store in inventory, and how does that work.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
I mean, you're you're now in an area where you are.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Into logistics and computer it's not computer science, but it's
the science of logistics that you're talking about. Is way
way above my pay grade. And I'm sure there's a
professor at one of us fabulous schools in our.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
City that would that know all about it.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
But like, but it's a thing. It's a thing.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Yeah, it's a thing. It's a science.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I am certain of it.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
All right, Tody, can you hang around? Cousin Todd's gonna
hang around. I have more questions. I also want to get, yes,
get into the vacation side of things too, the leisure
side of things, and how sometimes I like a hotel
better than an Airbnb. That's coming up next on wbz's Nightside.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Welcome back Gerry Tank Weave for dance and I we're
talking about the future of shopping and I like to
get out of the house. I do. I like to
get out of the house. Cousin Todd is joining me here.
He is the CEO of in our properties. Their generation
family has been doing it forever. They know what they're
talking about. What about stores just using their their storefront
(11:47):
as a billboard. This guy's obviously in the news a lot.
I don't know what the hell he's doing there the
you know, managing. But like you see a Tesla store,
you see a Tesla in the middle of the mall,
and I think he was ahead of that, you know,
like you would go on the mall and you just
see like three Teslas in a mall space. Does that work?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I mean, in the beginning, I will not comment on
anything Eli Musk related time. I will say this though, no, no.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
No, no no.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
But the in the beginning, they were really pioneering. They
were taking kind of like, you know, a storefront that
didn't have, you know, a vacant storefront, and they would
kind of go in and fill it in and it
was sort of a It wasn't right away that they
made it a centerpiece type you know, billboard, as you say,
(12:35):
But I think there are plenty of companies that have
many of evolved out of the retail kind of footprint
to then take on bricks and mortar storefronts, you know,
and the ones that have been most successful, and you know,
whether that's like a viewery type kind of lifestyle kind
(12:57):
of clothing company or in some case, is it's cars
where you know Rivian is now setting up at its
bricks and mortar presence, uh in the Samuels development lyric
right over the mass Pike. I mean that's kind of
you know, you're you're going to see more and more
of the you know, do you buy it online or
do you visit in the showroom and then buy it online?
I mean that's anyway, that's that's the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Could you ever buy a car without driving it?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
It feels so weird to think like about that. I
just in in twenty years, Yeah, I would. I would
guess that you're gonna that that may be a thing
one day.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Well, I mean, can't you do it now? I mean
you can have built for Carvana or one of them,
or I can't keep track of all of it.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
But that's a weird. It's a weird.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
That's a weird concept where they're you know, they stack
these cars and it's like a vending machine, right, and
it's kind of entertainment but also kind of weird. I
don't I don't know, I don't know how to look
at that or how sort of understand that. But but
but I do think though that like in a few years.
Whatever that means, you're you know, you're you're the way
(14:12):
you think about cars or owning it or buying it
or uh, servicing it is. I think it's going to
be wildly different than it is today.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Well, I think it's going to be tough to change brands. Example, like,
if you're a Chevy person, you know, you got the Chevy,
you want the Chabby, you know the type of car.
It's easy to just simply reorder it. But if you
want to change it up, you.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Know, yeah, although couldn't You could imagine a situation where
like six brands get together and you buy into a
service where you get a car and you can switch
the cars throughout the course of the year and they've
got you for life. But at the same time, sort
of subscription service, you get a car, but it's not
always the same car, and sometimes you want a big one.
Sometimes I could see that happening.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
That's a an idea, that's a that's a very good idea.
That's why you have more money, all right, Anyways, listen,
I want I find banks fascinating because at one point
in time in my life I used to sell velvet ropes. Yes,
It's true, folks. I did. When I was doing the
radio thing, you know, figuring it out, I did sell
the velvet ropes, Naga hide tweed. Would you like a
(15:22):
brass hook? Would you like a stilling silver hook? And
believe me, the markup on that stuff was unbelievable. But
I see that, oh yeah yeah, yeah yeah. And as
a matter of fact, this is inside baseball. But who
cares the family that owned the company that we bought
the ropes from. I went to camp. So there you go,
(15:44):
Laurence Stancheons. There's another story for.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
An other time.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Okay, everybody's like loosening to the radio, like what the
hell are they talking about? You know, and you know
something I don't really care. But the bank thing fascinates
me because I was in my early twenties when I
was figuring it out. I was selling things to banks.
I was selling rate boards and check desks and nameplates
and all that stuff while working radio part time and
trying to get going. But then all of a sudden,
(16:09):
Internet banking hit, right.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
I mean I I.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Sometimes I go onto the branch in Sudbury because I
just like the people. You know, obviously, I have too
much time on my hands, but.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
No, I mean keep them.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
No, I was just gonna say that going into a
bank branch. There was another thing you mentioned earlier. I
mean reading the paper like these are all indications of
you know, yours and my age in a way where
those are things that we did. But my goodness, banking
the notion that banking uh is can be very easily
(16:51):
made to be a completely online, pure utility, transaction, pure utility.
Kind of put it in an app, put it on
my desk, don't bother me with it. It's just all
going to be handled seamlessly this way. To me, that
one makes all the sense in the world.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Well it does, there's no doubt about it. And I
can't even get to the point now where if I
get a check, I just cash it on my phone.
My kids do it, you know, they just but I
still go to the attainment deposit it. And I don't
know why I do it. I don't know if I
feel like if I get a SAG check from a
movie I did one hundred years ago, and it's two
dollars and thirty two cents, and after taxes it's now
(17:28):
one dollar and one cent, I still go and deposit it.
I don't know why I don't. I guess so. But
the point that I'm trying to get to is, like,
I see TD banks right, and I was reading an
article where their philosophy is we want big bright banks
on corners with high traffic. So it's the philosophy kind
(17:50):
of like Tesla if you or Carvana or whoever, of
putting a bank and using that as a billboard. My
bank branch cost me five million dollars or whatever, but
it's a billboard because I want people to see it.
I want people to go online and then use the
bank online after they see the branch.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Thoughts on that, sure, sure, Well my thoughts are that
people are comfortable, uh with the concept of their money
being close to them, whatever that might mean. And so
if you feel as though that's your neighborhood branch and
that's just a familiar color and that's where you maybe
it's where you pay your home mortgage to, or maybe
it's where your deposits sit, there is something comforting about
(18:35):
that being kind of around the corner. I'm that is
a bit of a guess.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
But we'll think about it. And I'm talking, I'm completely
talking out of my butt, but if I if I
have a branch, if I have a building that costs
I mean, I'm picking numbers. I don't know if it's
five million, three million, whatever. In my advertising budgets are
the same, and I know that the track fit pattern.
(19:01):
I know, so many eyeballs are going to see my
logo between the hours of blank and blank, as opposed
to spending it on social media, or as opposed to
certainly spending it on you know, more traditional media, which
people are doing less and less. But of course they
spend money on the iHeartRadio app. As we all know.
It kind of makes sense, you know what I mean.
(19:22):
I mean, there's a lot of eyeballs in those high
traffic areas. Take a look at the McDonald's m I mean,
logos still matter. It's brand, it's brand advertising, it.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Is brand awareness, it is sort of the reinforcing, it's
the it's the eye catching color, it's it's all of
those things. I would it would be wild to know
where that branch is sort of allocation of marketing dollars.
How much more of their dollars are online driven and
they're running you know, ads on the top band of
(19:54):
WZ Radio's website or are they, you know, running inserts
in the local paper. Still maybe I again an area
that I'm not smart enough to a Pine on. But
the notion that's sort of the way we shop, the
way we consume advertisement is kind of some of it's
(20:17):
on our phones and some of it's live and in person,
and so you know that's the that's the balancing act.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Today, Oh Pine Away, are you kidding me? I have
Fox News in MSNBC and CNN on here in the studio.
Nobody on those three networks know what the hell they're
talking about. Either. I need you for one more segment
because I want to talk about food. Let's do it, okay, right,
Todd with as CEO for our properties, as we talk
about how we shop and how we shop for food
(20:44):
is next. WBZ.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's
news Radio.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Welcome back, Garien for Danton, and I'm talking to Todd Fernard.
He is the CEO for our property. So and just
about the way we shop, the way we consume, and
what lies ahead for us. Todd, I want to get
the food next, because I remember when some very smart
people got together and they said, you know what food
(21:14):
delivery is going to be back.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Now.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
There was you know, what's old is new again. There
was a time where I remember the milkman would come
to the house and no jokes here, no jokes. Yeah,
but the milkman would come to the house and yeah,
we had the bread guy. We usually had a bread
We had a bread guy come to the house, and
you know, in good old Rumford, Maine. So then there
(21:38):
was this theory that we're going to start delivering groceries
and they set up this huge company with warehouses strategically
placed kind of like Amazon, right, the Amazon of food
at the time failed miserably, failed miserably because when I
buy a steak, I want to go into my place
(22:01):
and I want to look at it. Yep, yep, and
that's look.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Yeah, I think no grocery has had its own sort
of evolution. And that's actually an interesting conversation. But restaurants in.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
General in terms of how they view, you.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Know, their relationship between sort of their grub Hub, Uber
Eats type sort of customer.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
And there, you know, they're there.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
There are all kinds of restaurants that have grappled with
by by servicing an online customer that has come at
the expense of their in store experience. You may sit
in an empty restaurant, don't know IF's ever happened to you.
You sit an empty restaurant and the food still takes
a half an hour because they're busy trying to churn
out their their kitchen for their online orders or the
delivery orders, and it can be a complete nightmare. So
(22:52):
they're all still trying to kind of find the balance.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
And those those that did.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
You know, going you know, as we sort of entered
the COVID era, those that you know adjusted fastest and
we're really good with sort of their own logistics. On
a more micro scale, they're probably still doing well today.
People's habits just kind of had to change.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Well, one of the things I won't do is I
will not pay for a delivery service because I'll tell
you right now, they're killing it. I mean, my god,
when my son, I mean, we have kids, and I'll
see in the charge that to get the food delivered
was more than the food painful. What did you do?
What I didn't want to get out of bed? Oh
(23:35):
my god.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
It's a lot of money has been made off of lazy,
off of a lazier people than van.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
But yeah, it's it's bad.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, I mean too so as far as the grocery
store and and and the Trader Joe's and the shopping
experience that'ople still want that, you know. No, I mean
there's some food delivery services like just for the for
a milk, or for eggs or just the staples, but
people still want to go into the grocery store.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Yeah, I mean, if I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
In our house, I think we have four different methods
of sort of grocery consumption, and they involve some online
and some in store. And I think part of it
is I don't want anyone picking my grapes but me,
and I don't want anyone picking my steak but me,
And so there's that part of the experience. And there's
also something unbelievably satisfying about Costco dropping off, you know,
(24:33):
a palette of toilet paper, you know, and they used
to come with eggs, but we can't get those anymore.
But you know, those things would now coming to your door,
you know, without the process of sort of the warehouse
club experience. Thank you, we'll take that. That's a great one.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, the Costcos, how are they still.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Doing as spectacularly.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Well, I mean that's one of the one of the
most interesting retail stories sort of in our country in
terms of how they've scaled there, have gotten to a
scale and how they've made their decisions on their real
estate has been brilliant. They don't pay they do not
pay monster rents because they they don't mind being in
(25:14):
the back of the industrial park because people will go
out of their way to go find them and they
know that. So their whole model has been huge, just
wildly successful.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
And obviously they buy in large quantities and that's how
they can pass along the savings correct.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Massive, massive, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
And and if you notice, I mean there is no
build out in their stores. There's there. Their their merchandise
is the buildout. It's just stacked on top of itself,
right somehow in that environment you don't need you know,
there is VCT floor, you know there is you know,
there's no ceiling fixtures, the lights are industrial. It is
(25:52):
a no frills kind of build out experience in a
massive box. But they're just they're smart at every turn
and how they and how they kind of operate.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Does that give you the feeling that you're saving money
as opposed to going in to say, like a Whole Foods,
where you know, the milk is in the back of
the store or the eggs in the back of the
store and you have to go through the greenery and
so forth to get there. But if I go into Costco,
I'm in a warehouse, So I think I'm saving money,
even though I may not be.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Yeah, I mean, I do.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I think that that there is some of that, like
it feels like I'm getting But even Costco though, like
you know Costco and there they are sort of strategic
in how they hand out sort of samples and they
keep that part as part of the experience. But what
I'm gonna say is that the supermarket experience, they're you know,
(26:44):
if they're evolving like they should be evolving, then you
know they're going to make it worth your while to
come into that store and to you know, see their
prepared foods and their prepared food section has grown because
you know, people don't have as much time and they
want to sort of be able to know and but
they've gotten better at all of the parts of their
game as well, you know, the ones that are succeeding.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
You mentioned you have the delivery services right like door
Dash and so forth, do families still eat out? Those
numbers up are down?
Speaker 4 (27:15):
I think they're up.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I mean, I, to be completely honest, I have no
idea how many people.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
How it is that so.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Many people can afford to go out to eat so
many nights. I mean, I don't have to, it's it's
an old stick. But but the price of what it
costs to go to a restaurant right now is so
absurd and so but and yet you know, go to
Burlington on a on a Wednesday night at seven thirty
(27:44):
and try to find a place to sit down. It's
it's not easy. People are are are making that part
of their you know, part of their annual budget.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Well, I also think with the exception of our house lately,
you know, both spouses work, you know, both parents work,
you know, so they don't want to come home and
they don't want to cook the dinner, and they don't
want to go into that. They don't want to make
that effort. So therefore they'll go out and they'll do that.
And and it seems that I thought maybe the door
(28:18):
Dash would put a dent in that, but it hasn't
at all.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
I mean, in a way, a lot of those restaurants.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Are are are doing well and and door dash is
part of it, right, right, but you know what I mean.
So that's that's part of what's driving that energy. But
but to your point, I am back to some one
of your original points, the idea of going out to
dinner and having a waiter or a waitress bring you
(28:45):
your food and and if it's a great experience, even better,
if it's a local experience, even better, if it's a
place where you feel familiar and they and you feel
comfortable and you see them on Wednesday. And I mean,
it doesn't have to be a fancy restaurant that we're
talking about. It just has to be a restare it's
well executed where the experience of being there is a
warm experience that still wins the day.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
You know, you talk about customer service, and I mentioned
when I was looking for, you know, a printer thing,
somebody came over. They helped me. They knew that I
was an idiot, they knew that I needed help. They
gave me exactly what I wanted. Is there an age
where that doesn't matter, like if you're thirty or younger,
or if you're thirty five or younger, that customer service
(29:29):
doesn't matter anymore. You're just as happy to buy it online.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
God, I don't want to live in a world where
that doesn't matter. No, I feel a little bit like,
you know, the way that a twenty seven year old
consumer and the way that a fifty four year old
consumer wants to experience things, there is some overlap, right,
(29:55):
Like you want to talk to someone who's smart, who
you know, if I can't figure this out, please help
me figure it out. You know that that does matter,
But I you know that they're like anything else, these
retailers are trying to figure out how to staff, how
to do more with less, how to operate these stores,
you know, with as as in some cases, as few
(30:17):
employees as possible. But you know, for those that have said,
you know what, no, we're not going to go that direction.
We're going to make this experience. You know, walk into
an aloe or walk into some of these other sort
of newer brands, and there's there's there could be twelve
people in the store and ten of them are you know,
would appear to be working at the store. So I
think there's different ways to go about it.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
When you talk about not being able to staff a store,
is that because they don't want to pay the money,
or the labor force isn't there, because from when I'm
getting the labor force isn't there. For example, I went
into a restaurant and they said half the restaurant is
closed because we don't have waiters tonight. Well yeah, blow
my mind. I mean, I know what happens in the
(31:01):
food service industry. Is it happening in retail? And I'm
not talking about high end retail. I'm talking about just
going in. I need to go buy a printer. I
need to go buy a printer cartridge, you know, and
I can't find anybody to help me. And I wonder
what are they cutting costs or they just don't have
the labor pool.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Well to some degree, And I mean Staples is a
good example. Staples online sales are are astronomical and they
still have a bricks and mortar presence. But how they
staff the stores I think is still uh uh, you know,
an equation that they're figuring out the balance of and
so you're you're going to get that kind of experience
(31:39):
maybe that that you got, you know, Chipotle is is
right now famously in the middle of a of a
of a really difficult time finding people to work their stores.
And if you look behind the camera, but Chipotle, man,
they're busy, they're they're they're cooking, they're chopping, they're serving
there there, it's it's like a convey air belt of activity.
(32:01):
That's not that's not an easy job whatsoever. And they're
finding it impossibly hard to staff that. So, you know,
part of this conversation gets into our labor pool, it
gets into what people will work what jobs. Right, there's
there's a whole there's there's a bunch of different conversations
that are sort of intertwined with the one we're having.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Okay, we're going to talk about airbnbs, and we're also
going to talk about the dispensary business where that is
and that's coming about around here with Todd Fernard Properties
Cousin Todd on WBC's Nightside.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Cousin Todd Todd Fernard, CEO for our properties here rappings
up as we talk about real estate and what's going
on in this world right now here on WBC Gary
Tangway for Dan, Right, Todd, let's talk. I want to
I hope I get the pronouncia pronunciation right. Ready, Yeah,
it's talk about ready, tell me all about it. And
it's a dispensary. And where is that industry going?
Speaker 4 (33:07):
That's wild?
Speaker 3 (33:08):
I mean a lot like real estate, it is sort
of all over the place. But a bunch of years ago,
some friends that I grew up with went to kindergarten
with We got together and we decided that we were
going to open a cannabis business. And so we went
through the process to get licensed in Newton on Route
(33:29):
nine in Newton Upper Falls kind of Newton Islands area,
and then also in Natick out in the clover Leaf
Mall where Total Wines is located.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
But we are shop.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Underscore ready it is.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
It's just it's a.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Locally owned cannabis dispensary and it's a wild business. But
but yeah, I'm happy to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Yeah, I mean, so where is the business hat because
there was a concern I remember you and I had
talked that maybe there was an oversaturation in the mar Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
And and look, I think we're in the first inning
of a long baseball game here. But the first round
of licenses came out and many of the towns and
cities kind of, you know, met their sort of obligatory share,
which was twenty percent of their liquor license count they
had to sort of award in cannabis licenses. And so
(34:26):
certain towns and certain cities have more certain have less
certain certain many voted no in the twenty sixteen election
and as a result were not obligated to open any stores. So,
you know, Newton was was one of the early ones
to sort of start figuring their way through it from
a from a real estate perspective, which was sort of
what my involvement in the in the operation was to
(34:48):
help find the location and permit them and and and
and so yeah, I mean it is you know, all
of the fears of sort of what this business we're
going to be, uh, you know, the element that came
with dispensaries has been sort of completely It was it
was a miss. I mean, it is a non issue.
(35:09):
This is retail no different than liquor stores, retail no
different than you know, any other kind of retail. And
so it's still kind of figuring its way out. If
the market is still sort of figuring out who who
is a consumer, who's kind of coming to it for
some people later in life. For some people they're young
(35:29):
and cannabis has sort of always been a part of
their their lifestyle.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
So yeah, that has been a.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Really interesting My interest in it was really in part
because I think one day it wants to live within hospitality.
It wants to be sort of in a setting like
a restaurant or like a hotel, or like a music venue.
But it's a it's a form of hospitality, no different
than you know, the reason you'd want to have a
glass wine.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Or a Look, it's a medication. It's to relax. I mean,
it's all the same thing anybody who said, as it
is and it's just being every great does it do
you think in twenty years, thirty years that does it
rival alcohol?
Speaker 3 (36:08):
H Yeah, I mean I actually do happen to think
that in the course of the next decade or to
the way that the next the next generation of person
that wants to relax, I think will view alcohol and
cannabis on a very equal footing. And so just in
terms of what it does to your body, how you
(36:28):
wake up the next morning feeling, how you sleep for
a hundred different reasons. I think cannabis sort of can
and will become far more mainstream. It's it's listen, I
grew up with Nancy Reagan, and I was a just
say no person until I wasn't.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
But that that was.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
But it's like Reverend jem on taxi. You know, you
do Todd came home one day stoned some evenings.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
But yeah, so you know this is this is a
whole conversation in and of itself in terms of where
it's going and how it's going to evolve. But yeah,
I do very much think that to your point, this
all falls under the umbrella of mood management, and that
that includes some of you know, the things that are
prescribed by your doctor, and includes some of the things
(37:19):
you drink at a pub, and includes some of the
things you buy it ready and bring home.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
So but here's the thing, which is which is which
sells better the gummies or the actual cannabis.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (37:35):
It's that is an ever evolving equation. But I would
say to you that the gummies are are certainly the
fastest growing part. People don't I mean, in general, I
think people don't love the idea of many people don't
want to burn something and inhale it into their lungs.
And I completely understand that perspective. There are many more
(37:56):
people who would rather drink a you know, calorie free
seltzer with five milligrams of THHC and you know, find
that sort of relaxing wavelength that it might take three
drinks to get to, but you know, one to five
milligram seltzer probably gets you feeling, you know, nice and
relaxed and you know, ready to ready to put the
(38:16):
kids to better whatever it might be.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
So well Todd, fascinating conversation. We are at a time
we were we were going to get to Airbnb's and hotels.
The one thing I will say, I still love a
great hotel. I still love a great hotel.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Waking up in someone else's bed is still a little weird.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
But and this is gonna sound so bad, and you
gotta make it. What a jackass thing to say. Oh
my god, I mean my mom right now she is
rolling over what you never make your bed anyways, Gary
Todd for CEO for our properties. Very good, very educational. Todd,
(38:57):
thanks for coming on. We appreciate it. And again and
the ready locations are where again.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
In Newton and in Natick Shop Shop Underscore.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Ready all right, Todd, be good, talk to you soon.
Thank you, all right, Todd. For properties, it's fascinating. I
mean I was never really into real estate. But why
people shop, why people leave the house. I mean, it's
a whole new world out there, it really is. I
mean when you see pickleball courts at the Natick Mall,
I'm like, what excuse me? But that's it. I mean,
(39:27):
go play pickle ball and go pick up a donkey.
That's the world we're living in. We are going to
talk about football movies, the best football movies coming up
with my guy Tory Champagne from espn uh and that's
next on WBC.
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Bazy, Coston's
Me Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Dan, thank you very much, my friends. Okay, now we're
going to talk about the future of in person shopping.
And I had an experience the other day. I was
with my wife and my thirteen year old daughter going
on eighteen, and they needed to go to a mall.
We went into the Prudential Mall here in Boston and
I actually enjoyed it, and that's why I wanted to
(00:26):
talk about this. So I said, who's an expert in this?
Cousin Todd. Cousin Todd is an expert. Yes, full disclosure,
that's what we do on the show. I like to
have friends and relatives on this show as much as possible.
And my cousin Todd is Todd Fernard, CEO of Fernard Properties,
and this has been his family's business for three generations.
(00:47):
So let's just where are we right now as far
as the situation with in person shopping versus online shop
Because based on my experience, I still think people will
want to go into stores, but it's just going to
(01:09):
be different.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Your thoughts, well, I'll start off by saying this, of
course they want to go to stores. We're social, we're
social creatures. We want to be around other people. We
want to I mean, food courts may have died a
long time ago, but the whole idea of a place
where teenagers, senior citizens everyone in between want to go
(01:31):
and kind of uh, you know, be in a control,
a climate, controlled environment with other people. I think in general,
that's kind of a a concept that isn't dead. But
my goodness, you're you're asking a wildly complicated question and.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
You got an hour, We got plenty of time.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, all right, well then let's go.
I mean, look, if you look at every different area
within sort of the world of real estate, whether that
a mall that you visited, whether it's an office building,
whether it's a shopping center, a hotel, every part of
our sort of world of real estate is under some
sort of attack. Retail is, you know, arguably a sort
(02:16):
of the online concept. And how will that compete offices?
I mean, who wants to go to an office? What
is an office building all about?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Today?
Speaker 4 (02:26):
I mean, hotels.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Are they kind of roared back after COVID, but Airbnb
and vrbo are kind of, you know, attacking from each side.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
On hotels.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
So the funny thing about real estate in general today
is it's all kind of in flux, and so I'm
not shocked at all that you went to the mall
and had a great time. They are folks at Boston
Properties and some of the other bigger, better sort of
mall owners in the country are doing everything they can
possibly do to make this entertaining and make it interesting
(03:00):
and make it compelling enough for you to get up
off the couch where you can just shop on your phone.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
You mentioned a good point about it being a place
to gather, because I'm not quite in the mall walking
mode yet. Okay enough, but I do yes, yeah, thanks pal,
But I do have a thirteen year old daughter that
wants to be dropped at them all of course.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah, now that that's I mean, the retail is a
pretty inventive, imaginative place, the sort of the landscape of retail,
and so we within the business of filling retail space
are looking to all kinds of different sort of entertainment
(03:45):
ish uses. And that could be pickleball, it could be
you know, ping pong. There's a ping pong place right
near the garden. The other night, it's just wild looking.
It could be music, it could be whiskey bars with
with you know, live music. It could be a karaoke bar.
But they're doing whatever they can do to find uses
that are you know, entertaining.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Well.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I think specialty stores are are very important. For example,
one of my kids, i mean van sneakerhead, and so
the types of sneakers that kids want to buy now
you cannot you you can't buy on Yeah, I mean
you can go. I mean if you if you need
a pair of running shoes or whatever you're gonna and
you know the kids size, but I mean I'm talking
(04:28):
about the sneakers that they don't take out of the box.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Right right, right, right right.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I mean I mean there's the you know, the hidden
bodega in Boston is famous, uh for the you know
the back room, which.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I'm sure, yeah, I've been dragged there too, but you know,
to me, it's those type of specialty stores todd where
you don't get the same feeling when you're online, you know,
you know, like like my wife the other day, she
wanted to try on a pair of sneakers, but h
they weren't the type of sneakers. Of course, as you
would know that you would get a DIX. I won't
(05:04):
mention the brand, but Golden was in the name. Yeah,
so you can't buy those on them. I mean you can,
but that's that's not part of the experience. You want
to go and you want to have somebody with I mean,
customer service is more important than ever and staffing is
a problem, right, I mean.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
That's listen, Yeah, that's that's a whole other category of issue.
But you know the thing of it is, we spent years,
decades trying to fill our shopping centers with the highest
grade tenant we could get our hands on, the highest
grade credit tenant we could get our hands on, and
then the bigger national brand, the better because your lender
(05:44):
would look at you and say, well, that's a valuable tenant.
They're going to pay their rent. And you know, if
you want to have a credible mall, then you got
to have a radio shack or that went away, and
then you got to have a gap, and then that
went away, and then you got to have I mean,
that's just been what it's been. But today and you
were this is where I thought you were going. The
one of a kind, the unique. You can only get
(06:04):
that here. That's like that's gold today, and so it's
in some ways it's it's kind of poetic because it's
gone back to being a local business with with you know,
if they if that butcher does it better, well, I'd
much rather go there than you know, with all due
respect to the you know, the the butcher counter at
(06:24):
Roach Brothers or something like that.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
So do you think that the space or do you
think that malls will decrease but rent will decrease, rent
will increase, so there will be fewer malls. However, the
malls that are still in operation will hire have a
higher level of service or a more specialized service.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
It depends, as the answer I mean to say, the
mall is you know, the the the the experience that
you'd have at the Prudential Mall or the experience you'd
have at the Natick Mall is wildly different than the
experience that you might have at the Solomon Pond Mall
or the Greendale Mall in Worcester was a mall that
(07:07):
its best days were behind it. Our company purchased that
mall and we ended up constructing something very different there.
But you know, there are malls that have died or
or are on their way to dying, and then there
are malls that are you know, in some ways the
ownership group has had the capital or the or the
(07:28):
connectedness or the or the leasing prowess to turn some
of the spaces and evolve them as fast as they
possibly can evolve them. So, I mean the prew is
a great example. It was it was it's a new
enough ish product, but they've been filling that with innovative
uses sort of, you know, as quick as they can
(07:50):
find them.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
You mentioned the Greendale Mall in Worcester, maam man. That
is a flashback for me. I think there's a leech
Mere there at one point when I was starting in Worcester.
I don't want to put you on a spot. What
did you end up doing though, Did you end up
constructing another type of building or did you kind of
reinvent it.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Admittedly, we had thought about reinventing it, and the plan
that we had put together in twenty nineteen was wildly
disrupted by COVID, by COVID, by COVID. But it's a
valuable site. It's a great piece of land, and the
folks at Amazon determined that it was a great place
to put a last mileth distribution facility, and so we
(08:32):
built that for them.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So here's another thing when you talk about for example,
I had I had to go to a couple of
stores today and I was looking. Sometimes, especially when it
comes to technology, right, I don't want to buy something online.
I get it, you know, I need to have somebody
tell me.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
There are a lot I mean for everybody individually. I
think there are a lot of purchases that sort of
categorically you'd say in that area, I want to touch it,
or I want someone to explain it to me or
or I mean, we were talking one time about trying
to sort of find all of the unamazonable uses that
that we feel like are sort of Amazon proof, you know,
(09:17):
and try to fill your shopping center with Amazon proof concepts.
But but yeah, I mean electronics. It's funny for you,
it may be electronics for someone else. I mean, I've
seen people buy electronics out of vending machines now.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Oh I know. Yeah, it's crazy. Like I was just
looking for printer cartridges, you know, and I don't want
to buy I don't. Well maybe I'm not. I'm not
the vest.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Exist No, it's not I'm not laughing at you. I'm
just laughing at the fact that that's like the biggest
racket on the face of the earth. That's another another minute.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Wait, a printed cartridge.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yeah, so he's a printer for seventy five bucks, but
then it's like fifty bucks every time you want to
change in the incame you pro.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Oh yeah, well that's true. And I found that out
today is I had to go to two locations because
one of the problems because they expect people to buy
it online, they don't have the inventory in.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
The store, right right right.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
That happens all the time. So I don't feel so
for some of these retailers. And I'm talking about just that,
you know, the the office retail store where you can
buy things online. I'll go in because I want to
see it, feel to touch it. They don't have it,
but I can buy it online. It's just going to
take me three days to get it. So there must
be a whole You may not have the answer to
this one, but like, there must be a whole formula
(10:29):
for companies to decide how much they keep in the
store in inventory, and how does that work.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
I mean, you're you're now in an area where you are.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Into logistics and computer it's not computer science, but it's
the science of logistics that you're talking about. Is way
way above my pay grade. And I'm sure there's a
professor at one of us fabulous schools in our.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
City that would that know all about it.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
But like, but it's a thing. It's a thing.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Yeah, it's a thing. It's a science.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I am certain of it.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
All right, Tody, can you hang around? Cousin Todd's gonna
hang around. I have more questions. I also want to get, yes,
get into the vacation side of things too, the leisure
side of things, and how sometimes I like a hotel
better than an Airbnb. That's coming up next on wbz's Nightside.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Welcome back Gerry Tank Weave for dance and I we're
talking about the future of shopping and I like to
get out of the house. I do. I like to
get out of the house. Cousin Todd is joining me here.
He is the CEO of in our properties. Their generation
family has been doing it forever. They know what they're
talking about. What about stores just using their their storefront
(11:47):
as a billboard. This guy's obviously in the news a lot.
I don't know what the hell he's doing there the
you know, managing. But like you see a Tesla store,
you see a Tesla in the middle of the mall,
and I think he was ahead of that, you know,
like you would go on the mall and you just
see like three Teslas in a mall space. Does that work?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I mean, in the beginning, I will not comment on
anything Eli Musk related time. I will say this though, no, no.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
No, no no.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
But the in the beginning, they were really pioneering. They
were taking kind of like, you know, a storefront that
didn't have, you know, a vacant storefront, and they would
kind of go in and fill it in and it
was sort of a It wasn't right away that they
made it a centerpiece type you know, billboard, as you say,
(12:35):
But I think there are plenty of companies that have
many of evolved out of the retail kind of footprint
to then take on bricks and mortar storefronts, you know,
and the ones that have been most successful, and you know,
whether that's like a viewery type kind of lifestyle kind
(12:57):
of clothing company or in some case, is it's cars
where you know Rivian is now setting up at its
bricks and mortar presence, uh in the Samuels development lyric
right over the mass Pike. I mean that's kind of
you know, you're you're going to see more and more
of the you know, do you buy it online or
do you visit in the showroom and then buy it online?
I mean that's anyway, that's that's the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Could you ever buy a car without driving it?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
It feels so weird to think like about that. I
just in in twenty years, Yeah, I would. I would
guess that you're gonna that that may be a thing
one day.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Well, I mean, can't you do it now? I mean
you can have built for Carvana or one of them,
or I can't keep track of all of it.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
But that's a weird. It's a weird.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
That's a weird concept where they're you know, they stack
these cars and it's like a vending machine, right, and
it's kind of entertainment but also kind of weird. I
don't I don't know, I don't know how to look
at that or how sort of understand that. But but
but I do think though that like in a few years.
Whatever that means, you're you know, you're you're the way
(14:12):
you think about cars or owning it or buying it
or uh, servicing it is. I think it's going to
be wildly different than it is today.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Well, I think it's going to be tough to change brands. Example, like,
if you're a Chevy person, you know, you got the Chevy,
you want the Chabby, you know the type of car.
It's easy to just simply reorder it. But if you
want to change it up, you.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Know, yeah, although couldn't You could imagine a situation where
like six brands get together and you buy into a
service where you get a car and you can switch
the cars throughout the course of the year and they've
got you for life. But at the same time, sort
of subscription service, you get a car, but it's not
always the same car, and sometimes you want a big one.
Sometimes I could see that happening.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
That's a an idea, that's a that's a very good idea.
That's why you have more money, all right, Anyways, listen,
I want I find banks fascinating because at one point
in time in my life I used to sell velvet ropes. Yes,
It's true, folks. I did. When I was doing the
radio thing, you know, figuring it out, I did sell
the velvet ropes, Naga hide tweed. Would you like a
(15:22):
brass hook? Would you like a stilling silver hook? And
believe me, the markup on that stuff was unbelievable. But
I see that, oh yeah yeah, yeah yeah. And as
a matter of fact, this is inside baseball. But who
cares the family that owned the company that we bought
the ropes from. I went to camp. So there you go,
(15:44):
Laurence Stancheons. There's another story for.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
An other time.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Okay, everybody's like loosening to the radio, like what the
hell are they talking about? You know, and you know
something I don't really care. But the bank thing fascinates
me because I was in my early twenties when I
was figuring it out. I was selling things to banks.
I was selling rate boards and check desks and nameplates
and all that stuff while working radio part time and
trying to get going. But then all of a sudden,
(16:09):
Internet banking hit, right.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
I mean I I.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Sometimes I go onto the branch in Sudbury because I
just like the people. You know, obviously, I have too
much time on my hands, but.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
No, I mean keep them.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
No, I was just gonna say that going into a
bank branch. There was another thing you mentioned earlier. I
mean reading the paper like these are all indications of
you know, yours and my age in a way where
those are things that we did. But my goodness, banking
the notion that banking uh is can be very easily
(16:51):
made to be a completely online, pure utility, transaction, pure utility.
Kind of put it in an app, put it on
my desk, don't bother me with it. It's just all
going to be handled seamlessly this way. To me, that
one makes all the sense in the world.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Well it does, there's no doubt about it. And I
can't even get to the point now where if I
get a check, I just cash it on my phone.
My kids do it, you know, they just but I
still go to the attainment deposit it. And I don't
know why I do it. I don't know if I
feel like if I get a SAG check from a
movie I did one hundred years ago, and it's two
dollars and thirty two cents, and after taxes it's now
(17:28):
one dollar and one cent, I still go and deposit it.
I don't know why I don't. I guess so. But
the point that I'm trying to get to is, like,
I see TD banks right, and I was reading an
article where their philosophy is we want big bright banks
on corners with high traffic. So it's the philosophy kind
(17:50):
of like Tesla if you or Carvana or whoever, of
putting a bank and using that as a billboard. My
bank branch cost me five million dollars or whatever, but
it's a billboard because I want people to see it.
I want people to go online and then use the
bank online after they see the branch.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Thoughts on that, sure, sure, Well my thoughts are that
people are comfortable, uh with the concept of their money
being close to them, whatever that might mean. And so
if you feel as though that's your neighborhood branch and
that's just a familiar color and that's where you maybe
it's where you pay your home mortgage to, or maybe
it's where your deposits sit, there is something comforting about
(18:35):
that being kind of around the corner. I'm that is
a bit of a guess.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
But we'll think about it. And I'm talking, I'm completely
talking out of my butt, but if I if I
have a branch, if I have a building that costs
I mean, I'm picking numbers. I don't know if it's
five million, three million, whatever. In my advertising budgets are
the same, and I know that the track fit pattern.
(19:01):
I know, so many eyeballs are going to see my
logo between the hours of blank and blank, as opposed
to spending it on social media, or as opposed to
certainly spending it on you know, more traditional media, which
people are doing less and less. But of course they
spend money on the iHeartRadio app. As we all know.
It kind of makes sense, you know what I mean.
(19:22):
I mean, there's a lot of eyeballs in those high
traffic areas. Take a look at the McDonald's m I mean,
logos still matter. It's brand, it's brand advertising, it.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Is brand awareness, it is sort of the reinforcing, it's
the it's the eye catching color, it's it's all of
those things. I would it would be wild to know
where that branch is sort of allocation of marketing dollars.
How much more of their dollars are online driven and
they're running you know, ads on the top band of
(19:54):
WZ Radio's website or are they, you know, running inserts
in the local paper. Still maybe I again an area
that I'm not smart enough to a Pine on. But
the notion that's sort of the way we shop, the
way we consume advertisement is kind of some of it's
(20:17):
on our phones and some of it's live and in person,
and so you know that's the that's the balancing act.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Today, Oh Pine Away, are you kidding me? I have
Fox News in MSNBC and CNN on here in the studio.
Nobody on those three networks know what the hell they're
talking about. Either. I need you for one more segment
because I want to talk about food. Let's do it, okay, right,
Todd with as CEO for our properties, as we talk
about how we shop and how we shop for food
(20:44):
is next. WBZ.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's
news Radio.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Welcome back, Garien for Danton, and I'm talking to Todd Fernard.
He is the CEO for our property. So and just
about the way we shop, the way we consume, and
what lies ahead for us. Todd, I want to get
the food next, because I remember when some very smart
people got together and they said, you know what food
(21:14):
delivery is going to be back.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Now.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
There was you know, what's old is new again. There
was a time where I remember the milkman would come
to the house and no jokes here, no jokes. Yeah,
but the milkman would come to the house and yeah,
we had the bread guy. We usually had a bread
We had a bread guy come to the house, and
you know, in good old Rumford, Maine. So then there
(21:38):
was this theory that we're going to start delivering groceries
and they set up this huge company with warehouses strategically
placed kind of like Amazon, right, the Amazon of food
at the time failed miserably, failed miserably because when I
buy a steak, I want to go into my place
(22:01):
and I want to look at it. Yep, yep, and
that's look.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Yeah, I think no grocery has had its own sort
of evolution. And that's actually an interesting conversation. But restaurants in.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
General in terms of how they view, you.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Know, their relationship between sort of their grub Hub, Uber
Eats type sort of customer.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
And there, you know, they're there.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
There are all kinds of restaurants that have grappled with
by by servicing an online customer that has come at
the expense of their in store experience. You may sit
in an empty restaurant, don't know IF's ever happened to you.
You sit an empty restaurant and the food still takes
a half an hour because they're busy trying to churn
out their their kitchen for their online orders or the
delivery orders, and it can be a complete nightmare. So
(22:52):
they're all still trying to kind of find the balance.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
And those those that did.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
You know, going you know, as we sort of entered
the COVID era, those that you know adjusted fastest and
we're really good with sort of their own logistics. On
a more micro scale, they're probably still doing well today.
People's habits just kind of had to change.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Well, one of the things I won't do is I
will not pay for a delivery service because I'll tell
you right now, they're killing it. I mean, my god,
when my son, I mean, we have kids, and I'll
see in the charge that to get the food delivered
was more than the food painful. What did you do?
What I didn't want to get out of bed? Oh
(23:35):
my god.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
It's a lot of money has been made off of lazy,
off of a lazier people than van.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
But yeah, it's it's bad.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, I mean too so as far as the grocery
store and and and the Trader Joe's and the shopping
experience that'ople still want that, you know. No, I mean
there's some food delivery services like just for the for
a milk, or for eggs or just the staples, but
people still want to go into the grocery store.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Yeah, I mean, if I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
In our house, I think we have four different methods
of sort of grocery consumption, and they involve some online
and some in store. And I think part of it
is I don't want anyone picking my grapes but me,
and I don't want anyone picking my steak but me,
And so there's that part of the experience. And there's
also something unbelievably satisfying about Costco dropping off, you know,
(24:33):
a palette of toilet paper, you know, and they used
to come with eggs, but we can't get those anymore.
But you know, those things would now coming to your door,
you know, without the process of sort of the warehouse
club experience. Thank you, we'll take that. That's a great one.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, the Costcos, how are they still.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Doing as spectacularly.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Well, I mean that's one of the one of the
most interesting retail stories sort of in our country in
terms of how they've scaled there, have gotten to a
scale and how they've made their decisions on their real
estate has been brilliant. They don't pay they do not
pay monster rents because they they don't mind being in
(25:14):
the back of the industrial park because people will go
out of their way to go find them and they
know that. So their whole model has been huge, just
wildly successful.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
And obviously they buy in large quantities and that's how
they can pass along the savings correct.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Massive, massive, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
And and if you notice, I mean there is no
build out in their stores. There's there. Their their merchandise
is the buildout. It's just stacked on top of itself,
right somehow in that environment you don't need you know,
there is VCT floor, you know there is you know,
there's no ceiling fixtures, the lights are industrial. It is
(25:52):
a no frills kind of build out experience in a
massive box. But they're just they're smart at every turn
and how they and how they kind of operate.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Does that give you the feeling that you're saving money
as opposed to going in to say, like a Whole Foods,
where you know, the milk is in the back of
the store or the eggs in the back of the
store and you have to go through the greenery and
so forth to get there. But if I go into Costco,
I'm in a warehouse, So I think I'm saving money,
even though I may not be.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Yeah, I mean, I do.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I think that that there is some of that, like
it feels like I'm getting But even Costco though, like
you know Costco and there they are sort of strategic
in how they hand out sort of samples and they
keep that part as part of the experience. But what
I'm gonna say is that the supermarket experience, they're you know,
(26:44):
if they're evolving like they should be evolving, then you
know they're going to make it worth your while to
come into that store and to you know, see their
prepared foods and their prepared food section has grown because
you know, people don't have as much time and they
want to sort of be able to know and but
they've gotten better at all of the parts of their
game as well, you know, the ones that are succeeding.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
You mentioned you have the delivery services right like door
Dash and so forth, do families still eat out? Those
numbers up are down?
Speaker 4 (27:15):
I think they're up.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I mean, I, to be completely honest, I have no
idea how many people.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
How it is that so.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Many people can afford to go out to eat so
many nights. I mean, I don't have to, it's it's
an old stick. But but the price of what it
costs to go to a restaurant right now is so
absurd and so but and yet you know, go to
Burlington on a on a Wednesday night at seven thirty
(27:44):
and try to find a place to sit down. It's
it's not easy. People are are are making that part
of their you know, part of their annual budget.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Well, I also think with the exception of our house lately,
you know, both spouses work, you know, both parents work,
you know, so they don't want to come home and
they don't want to cook the dinner, and they don't
want to go into that. They don't want to make
that effort. So therefore they'll go out and they'll do that.
And and it seems that I thought maybe the door
(28:18):
Dash would put a dent in that, but it hasn't
at all.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
I mean, in a way, a lot of those restaurants.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Are are are doing well and and door dash is
part of it, right, right, but you know what I mean.
So that's that's part of what's driving that energy. But
but to your point, I am back to some one
of your original points, the idea of going out to
dinner and having a waiter or a waitress bring you
(28:45):
your food and and if it's a great experience, even better,
if it's a local experience, even better, if it's a
place where you feel familiar and they and you feel
comfortable and you see them on Wednesday. And I mean,
it doesn't have to be a fancy restaurant that we're
talking about. It just has to be a restare it's
well executed where the experience of being there is a
warm experience that still wins the day.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
You know, you talk about customer service, and I mentioned
when I was looking for, you know, a printer thing,
somebody came over. They helped me. They knew that I
was an idiot, they knew that I needed help. They
gave me exactly what I wanted. Is there an age
where that doesn't matter, like if you're thirty or younger,
or if you're thirty five or younger, that customer service
(29:29):
doesn't matter anymore. You're just as happy to buy it online.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
God, I don't want to live in a world where
that doesn't matter. No, I feel a little bit like,
you know, the way that a twenty seven year old
consumer and the way that a fifty four year old
consumer wants to experience things, there is some overlap, right,
(29:55):
Like you want to talk to someone who's smart, who
you know, if I can't figure this out, please help
me figure it out. You know that that does matter,
But I you know that they're like anything else, these
retailers are trying to figure out how to staff, how
to do more with less, how to operate these stores,
you know, with as as in some cases, as few
(30:17):
employees as possible. But you know, for those that have said,
you know what, no, we're not going to go that direction.
We're going to make this experience. You know, walk into
an aloe or walk into some of these other sort
of newer brands, and there's there's there could be twelve
people in the store and ten of them are you know,
would appear to be working at the store. So I
think there's different ways to go about it.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
When you talk about not being able to staff a store,
is that because they don't want to pay the money,
or the labor force isn't there, because from when I'm
getting the labor force isn't there. For example, I went
into a restaurant and they said half the restaurant is
closed because we don't have waiters tonight. Well yeah, blow
my mind. I mean, I know what happens in the
(31:01):
food service industry. Is it happening in retail? And I'm
not talking about high end retail. I'm talking about just
going in. I need to go buy a printer. I
need to go buy a printer cartridge, you know, and
I can't find anybody to help me. And I wonder
what are they cutting costs or they just don't have
the labor pool.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Well to some degree, And I mean Staples is a
good example. Staples online sales are are astronomical and they
still have a bricks and mortar presence. But how they
staff the stores I think is still uh uh, you know,
an equation that they're figuring out the balance of and
so you're you're going to get that kind of experience
(31:39):
maybe that that you got, you know, Chipotle is is
right now famously in the middle of a of a
of a really difficult time finding people to work their stores.
And if you look behind the camera, but Chipotle, man,
they're busy, they're they're they're cooking, they're chopping, they're serving
there there, it's it's like a convey air belt of activity.
(32:01):
That's not that's not an easy job whatsoever. And they're
finding it impossibly hard to staff that. So, you know,
part of this conversation gets into our labor pool, it
gets into what people will work what jobs. Right, there's
there's a whole there's there's a bunch of different conversations
that are sort of intertwined with the one we're having.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Okay, we're going to talk about airbnbs, and we're also
going to talk about the dispensary business where that is
and that's coming about around here with Todd Fernard Properties
Cousin Todd on WBC's Nightside.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Cousin Todd Todd Fernard, CEO for our properties here rappings
up as we talk about real estate and what's going
on in this world right now here on WBC Gary
Tangway for Dan, Right, Todd, let's talk. I want to
I hope I get the pronouncia pronunciation right. Ready, Yeah,
it's talk about ready, tell me all about it. And
it's a dispensary. And where is that industry going?
Speaker 4 (33:07):
That's wild?
Speaker 3 (33:08):
I mean a lot like real estate, it is sort
of all over the place. But a bunch of years ago,
some friends that I grew up with went to kindergarten
with We got together and we decided that we were
going to open a cannabis business. And so we went
through the process to get licensed in Newton on Route
(33:29):
nine in Newton Upper Falls kind of Newton Islands area,
and then also in Natick out in the clover Leaf
Mall where Total Wines is located.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
But we are shop.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Underscore ready it is.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
It's just it's a.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Locally owned cannabis dispensary and it's a wild business. But
but yeah, I'm happy to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Yeah, I mean, so where is the business hat because
there was a concern I remember you and I had
talked that maybe there was an oversaturation in the mar Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
And and look, I think we're in the first inning
of a long baseball game here. But the first round
of licenses came out and many of the towns and
cities kind of, you know, met their sort of obligatory share,
which was twenty percent of their liquor license count they
had to sort of award in cannabis licenses. And so
(34:26):
certain towns and certain cities have more certain have less
certain certain many voted no in the twenty sixteen election
and as a result were not obligated to open any stores. So,
you know, Newton was was one of the early ones
to sort of start figuring their way through it from
a from a real estate perspective, which was sort of
what my involvement in the in the operation was to
(34:48):
help find the location and permit them and and and
and so yeah, I mean it is you know, all
of the fears of sort of what this business we're
going to be, uh, you know, the element that came
with dispensaries has been sort of completely It was it
was a miss. I mean, it is a non issue.
(35:09):
This is retail no different than liquor stores, retail no
different than you know, any other kind of retail. And
so it's still kind of figuring its way out. If
the market is still sort of figuring out who who
is a consumer, who's kind of coming to it for
some people later in life. For some people they're young
(35:29):
and cannabis has sort of always been a part of
their their lifestyle.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
So yeah, that has been a.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Really interesting My interest in it was really in part
because I think one day it wants to live within hospitality.
It wants to be sort of in a setting like
a restaurant or like a hotel, or like a music venue.
But it's a it's a form of hospitality, no different
than you know, the reason you'd want to have a
glass wine.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Or a Look, it's a medication. It's to relax. I mean,
it's all the same thing anybody who said, as it
is and it's just being every great does it do
you think in twenty years, thirty years that does it
rival alcohol?
Speaker 3 (36:08):
H Yeah, I mean I actually do happen to think
that in the course of the next decade or to
the way that the next the next generation of person
that wants to relax, I think will view alcohol and
cannabis on a very equal footing. And so just in
terms of what it does to your body, how you
(36:28):
wake up the next morning feeling, how you sleep for
a hundred different reasons. I think cannabis sort of can
and will become far more mainstream. It's it's listen, I
grew up with Nancy Reagan, and I was a just
say no person until I wasn't.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
But that that was.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
But it's like Reverend jem on taxi. You know, you
do Todd came home one day stoned some evenings.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
But yeah, so you know this is this is a
whole conversation in and of itself in terms of where
it's going and how it's going to evolve. But yeah,
I do very much think that to your point, this
all falls under the umbrella of mood management, and that
that includes some of you know, the things that are
prescribed by your doctor, and includes some of the things
(37:19):
you drink at a pub, and includes some of the
things you buy it ready and bring home.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
So but here's the thing, which is which is which
sells better the gummies or the actual cannabis.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (37:35):
It's that is an ever evolving equation. But I would
say to you that the gummies are are certainly the
fastest growing part. People don't I mean, in general, I
think people don't love the idea of many people don't
want to burn something and inhale it into their lungs.
And I completely understand that perspective. There are many more
(37:56):
people who would rather drink a you know, calorie free
seltzer with five milligrams of THHC and you know, find
that sort of relaxing wavelength that it might take three
drinks to get to, but you know, one to five
milligram seltzer probably gets you feeling, you know, nice and
relaxed and you know, ready to ready to put the
(38:16):
kids to better whatever it might be.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
So well Todd, fascinating conversation. We are at a time
we were we were going to get to Airbnb's and hotels.
The one thing I will say, I still love a
great hotel. I still love a great hotel.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Waking up in someone else's bed is still a little weird.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
But and this is gonna sound so bad, and you
gotta make it. What a jackass thing to say. Oh
my god, I mean my mom right now she is
rolling over what you never make your bed anyways, Gary
Todd for CEO for our properties. Very good, very educational. Todd,
(38:57):
thanks for coming on. We appreciate it. And again and
the ready locations are where again.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
In Newton and in Natick Shop Shop Underscore.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Ready all right, Todd, be good, talk to you soon.
Thank you, all right, Todd. For properties, it's fascinating. I
mean I was never really into real estate. But why
people shop, why people leave the house. I mean, it's
a whole new world out there, it really is. I
mean when you see pickleball courts at the Natick Mall,
I'm like, what excuse me? But that's it. I mean,
(39:27):
go play pickle ball and go pick up a donkey.
That's the world we're living in. We are going to
talk about football movies, the best football movies coming up
with my guy Tory Champagne from espn uh and that's
next on WBC.
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