February 18, 2025 • 40 mins
The Massachusetts Teachers Association is under fire for alleged antisemitic learning materials on the Israel-Hamas war. The MA Special Commission on Combatting Antisemitism gathered more than two dozen examples of materials distributed by the MTA that they said were problematic, presenting a one-sided viewpoint that appeared to be Pro-Palestinian in nature. MTA President Max Page was questioned during a special hearing to address the matter, in which he told members, the materials “emerged organically among the union’s members and he did not want to censor individual members.”
*The MTA has declined our invitation to join the conversation*
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*The MTA has declined our invitation to join the conversation*
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's nice with Dan Ray. I'm Boston Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
All right, welcome back everyone. I want to thank my
guest and my cars. Last hour, I thought that was
a very interesting hour, and as a consequence, I'd like
to stick with this hour because it's pretty apparent from
what I have read, uh that the Mass Teachers Union,
the leadership of the Mass Teachers Union, a guy by
(00:31):
the name of Max Page, and his vice he's the
president of the union, and his vice president, you know,
have an agenda here. And the agenda is to uh
work into the curriculum and a viewpoint that that I
strongly disagree with, that the Anti Defamation League strongly disagrees with,
(00:55):
and maybe that you strongly disagree with. And I don't
think this sort of propaganda, disguised as it is as
teaching resources or learning resources. When you see these pictures,
these these it's nothing more than anti Israeli, anti Semitic propaganda.
(01:22):
And I will talk about this for as long as
my audience wants to tonight. If you have an interest
in this, now's the time to reach for your phone
six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty. And if
you want to defend what the Mass Teachers Association is doing.
It's a very powerful institution here in Massachusetts, one hundred
(01:44):
and seventeen thousand teachers. I'm sure the vast overwhelming majority
of those teachers are interested in being in the classroom
and helping the students, be they in kindergarten, any from
kindergarten to grade twelve. I have no concern. My kids
(02:05):
went to public schools throughout elementary school into junior high school.
They had some wonderful public school teachers. I've had public
school teachers, My wife had public school teachers. I probably
wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today if it hadn't
been for a ninth grade civic school teacher at Boston
(02:25):
Latin School back in the day, a guy by the
name of mister Dougherty who taught Civics and really lit
within me an interest and a passion for how learning,
how government works, and part of government. Now are the
unions that are very strong voices for their membership at
(02:49):
the state houses around the country and of course in Congress.
And when the union voice strays from just advocacy for
their membership and starts to get into politics, raw politics,
international politics, that is when it really gets scary. So
(03:12):
I'm gonna I want to hear from teachers. I want
to hear from you, I want to hear from parents.
Is this the sort of garbage that you want your
kids exposed to? Nothing more than political propaganda. It happens
to be anti Israeli and anti Semitic political propaganda. But
(03:34):
you should not be be exposed as a student in
kindergarten through the twelfth grade to propaganda. You're supposed to
be exposed to subjects which will prepare you later in
life to deal with those issues. Let me go to
Tom and Rochester. I'm assuming it's Rochester, Massachusetts. Tom, go
right ahead, it is Dan.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I got in the last minute of the last hour.
My point that I wanted to make was how important
the the effort that our our neighbors put into the
local election for the school board. It is the it
(04:16):
seems to be the the avenue to affect our society.
It's very important. You see how active these people are
in their school boards, right.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
The struggle seems to start there and the Mass Teachers Association, Uh,
they're affected by that. They can they also affect that.
It's like, ultimately this seems to be the it seems
(04:50):
to be the battleground the schools.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
And well it is. No. I think you're right on that,
and I didn't realize that you had held over. But
I'm glad. I'm glad you did because we did.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I didn't mean to be twice I didn't mean to
be twice indulged.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It's just no, no, no, no, no no no. I've
taken you here because I felt you got short change.
The point you were making is important, and I've made
this point to others in terms of elections. Everybody gets
excited about a presidential election, whether you're a Republican, a Democrat,
you know, liberal, conservative or whatever. But you represent probably
(05:25):
one out of I don't know what it is these days,
one hundred and seventy one hundred and seventy five million
votes something like that, whatever it is. When you when
you vote in a governor's race, you you're you're one
of four million residents in Massachusetts, citizens in Massachusetts who
are eligible to vote. You're wanting about four million, So
(05:46):
your vote is stronger in a governor's race, you know,
as a percentage as it would be in a presidential race,
because you're just it's one over you know, one hundred
and seventy million as opposed to one over four million.
But in the local race, you vote really matters, and
you vote really counts. And the influence that you can
exercise in your community by holding out a sign for
(06:10):
a candidate that you happen to believe in, who's running
for city council or for school committee, those are the important,
the most important elections in my.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Well, well when it when it comes to teaching our
children and KYW towering to be in the Massachusetts Teachers Association, yes,
then then there's then there's kind of a synergy there.
If you look at George Soros and Bill Gates and
and Mark Zuckerberg, they know how to amplify their money, right,
(06:42):
they know how to best spend their money to influence
things well.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
There as also there are also multi billionaires and so
they have so much money.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
You know, you can, you can, you can do.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Let me finish my points on if I could, because
I think the point you made is important. Sorrows is
on one side of the political spectrum. At this point,
Zuckelberg apparently has switched from the side that he was
on with Sorrows and now he's over on the other side.
But in either case, the amount of money that they
have available is it's you know, exponential go ahead.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Well, so so Gates. What I understood from Gates was
to multiply his money by spending it smart by and
so so this was kind of interesting. Where do you
spend your money? If you have so much money to spend,
you can throw it after in the George Jeb Bush election,
(07:47):
right the in that twenty sixteen and just throw it away,
Or they're right. People throw a lot of money away
affecting national elections. But people spend real, really good money
affecting local elections.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
And the best example and local election.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I don't know if you could hear me or not,
but the.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Smart money, that's the smart money.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, I don't know if you're able to hear me, Tom,
But the best example that you just alluded to is
what Soros did with district attorney elections around the country
in Boston, in Chicago, in New York, in Philadelphia, in
Los Angeles, and in San Francisco, St. Louis and other
major cities. Uh, those district attorneys, many of them now
(08:32):
who he helped elect, have been moved out of the
office Rachel Rollins here in Boston, George Gascon in Los Angeles. Uh,
the the DA in San Francisco. U who who was?
Who was? Who was recalled? But yeah, those are very
important elections. Tom. I appreciate your time, and I appreciate
(08:54):
the point that you that you made. Thank you very
much for holding through the news. Appreciate it very much.
I'm going to give you folks an opportunity if you
want to follow up on what we talked about last hour.
I'd like to continue to talk about the dangers of
anti Semitism as it creeps within our society and as
(09:16):
it now creeps within the school system. If not, I'm
going to change topics. I've got a topic to go to.
But I'd like to stick with the anti semitism topic
that we opened up last hour. We had some excellent
phone calls last hour, we had excellent guests, and I
would like to stay with it. Uh, if you'd like
to join us six one, seven, two, five, four ten
(09:38):
thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty And
if not, is the audience who always decides how long
the topic stays up for discussion, and if not, we
will move on to different topics right after this quick
break on night Side.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the window World
Light Side Studios on w b in twvidio.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
All right, let's get back to the phone calls. We're
going to go to Ruth in Brookline. Ruth, I appreciate
you calling in. Go right ahead. What's on your mind?
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Ruth?
Speaker 5 (10:11):
Well, okay, can you hear me?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I can hear you?
Speaker 5 (10:14):
Oh great, great. So I was at that hearing last
week in the State House as a spectator and it
was it was pretty shocking. I just wanted to mention
emphasize one thing that came up earlier, but I want
to put a put a greater point on it. The notion.
The notion, the notion that there was materials included in
(10:40):
in those so called resources that were geared toward first grade.
You mentioned them earlier, but Max Cage, they tried, they
tried to sort of justify their materials by saying, we
don't well he did, we don't necessarily agree with these
points of view. The Union is a democratic entity and
(11:02):
I can't really control, you know, what my members, what
people come up with. And I'm not saying I always
so so, but the notion that and and then he
made the point that we're trying to present our teachers
with diverse viewpoints. Of course there was only one side,
so it wasn't diverse quote unquote, but the notion that that,
(11:26):
in other words, you you you could make the case that, oh,
we're showing you these materials so the teachers can can
demonstrate how bias they are or something like that. But
but that whole argument was undercut by these first grade
materials that were so clearly, you know, like bias isn't
(11:48):
even the word for it. I mean, imagine having they
even they even had exercises. They took the little girl's name,
the Palestinian girl who was you know, expelled from her home.
That was the narrative, and part of the workbook assignment
(12:08):
was to for a child to just write that little
girl's name many times, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
As as a matter of fact, I think what you're
referring to is Hondala's Return, which was published last year
by the Palestinian Feminist Collective, include storylines such as a
group of bullies called Zionists on our land, so they
stole it by force and hurt many people. The book
(12:36):
ends with a call to action, urging readers meaning little kids,
to help Cadella Free Palestine, asking them to fill in
prompts such as, I will raise funds for the children
of Palestine by whatever, or I will chant this at
a Palestinian protest. And then another part was they wanted
(12:57):
to have the children just writing the name of the
room girl Handala.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
It's brainwashing. It's worse than pidate. It's brainwashing, I know.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
I mean, but for him to try to make the
point that, oh, we're just trying to present teachers with
diverse materials and they can choose what they want to use, well,
I'm sorry, like first graders, I mean, a first grade
teacher isn't going to look at that and say, gee,
this is I'm going to make an evaluation of this,
(13:31):
and this shows a diverse point of view. It was
a ridiculous argument that, you know, carry no weight. I
just want to make one other point that hasn't been
made earlier this evening, which is that part of the
legislation that created this, this legislative Commission also included like
(13:52):
a recommendation or actually a mandate to the to the
state Department of Education and DESI to come up with
resources and materials on anti Semitism on their website, and
to engage in trainings and professional development for teachers across
(14:16):
the state in the area of anti semitism. That was
that's a that was a section of the legislation that
created this commission. So I just wanted to emphasize the
fact that the state Department of Education, they currently have
put up some materials. I think that there's a lot
(14:38):
more they could be doing. And as you probably know,
in Massachusetts, we don't have a state mandated curriculum. We
have state standards, but really curriculum is very much locally
based and locally determined. But nonetheless, the Department of Education
really has a role to play here and I'm I'm
(15:00):
really hoping that they will you treat this issue with
the urgency that it deserves, especially in light of what
we see the MTA is now doing.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, well, I think that the Department of Education has
a responsibility. I also think the governor and the Attorney
General have a responsibility to know what's going on if
the schools are propagandized, and they need not stand aside quietly. Ruth,
I appreciate you, Carl, Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
Appreciate it, Thank you, thank you for the program.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Okay, bye bye, my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
We had a bunch of folks who were on the line, Rob.
I don't know where they went, but if they want
to call back, that's great. If not, we're going to
move on after the break to a different subject. In
the meantime, let me jump on here quickly with Darryl
up in New Brunswick, Canada. Darrel, appreciate you calling in.
Speaker 6 (15:53):
Go ahead, Hey, Dan, I've been trying to listen, but
our snowstorms and whatnot from there, I just caught the
Hidala thing about the girl from Palestine.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, yeah, we got there, Daryl. Not to take a
lot of time to explain it. But the issue here
is that the Massachusetts Teachers Union Teachers Association, I should
say one hundred and seventeen members have been accused by
some Anti Defamation League back members back here of basically
(16:28):
being anti Semitic and basically trying to get pro Palestinian
and anti Israeli and therefore anti Semitic propaganda into Massachusetts
classrooms who curriculum bite distributed.
Speaker 6 (16:44):
Well, that's where we can hopefully help this out. Is
what about this young girl talking about all the young
children that were killed October seventh.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Well, again, I don't think that, frankly, in the anywhere
from kindergarten to twelfth grade. I agree with you that
this whole thing started on October seventh, and it was
not started by the Israelis, who were started by Hamas
on behalf of Palestinians. I don't think it. I want
to blame Palestinians for that. I blame Hamas, who in
(17:18):
effect have kept the Palestinians captive, if you will, almost
holding the Palestinians hostages before they took the Israelis the
Israeli hostages. But what is going on here is that
we have, you know, people in this leadership of this
teachers union who have a political point of view that
they want to see basically distributed within the school system.
(17:42):
And they're trying to do it by some very underhanded means,
and they've been called out on it, and that's why
we did it.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
And that's wrong. The program and teachers are supposed to
teach students. So what they need to know, yeah, not
their political Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I would think that Darryl, this is the sort of
stuff that would be in a college curriculum, our graduate
school curriculum, not in in in elementary school, not in
what we call middle school or high school. And I'm
sure those terms are the same in Canada.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
Yeah, being overseas, we've seen that same thing, and even
in Canada, that's where it starts in the lower grades.
But that's why you keep up good programming, because this
is why we listening. We respond, all.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Right, Paul, I appreciate it very much, and we'll have
to see how that big hockey game turns out later
on this week. Okay, thanks buddy.
Speaker 6 (18:31):
Let's let's actually with you, with you saying that, let's
hope nobody boozed nothing.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I'm with you on that. I'm with you.
Speaker 6 (18:38):
We're allies through and through right.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Absolutely absolutely have a lot of friends friends, all right,
thanks Daryel, and you're included amongst them. Have a great night.
Good night. We'll take a break. Here's the news at
the bottom of the ear. We're going to change topics
on the other side. We'll be back after this.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's new radio.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
All right, I'm gonna take I'll take a couple of
more calls if you want, and if not, we're going
to switch topics. I am frankly surprised that my audience
is not perceptive enough to realize that anti Semitism has
been with us for millennium, from millennia UH, and it
(19:25):
is reared its ugly head, never more viciously than the
Nazi Holocaust. And if we don't stamp out UH and
at least address this cancer within our society, it will
continue to grow. If you'd like to join this conversation,
(19:46):
I'll give you one more chance. I'm going to go
to Joanna in Stowe, and if Joanna is it, we
will change topics. Joanne, appreciate your call. Whatever your point
of view, you go right ahead, Joanna, how are you
going to heay?
Speaker 7 (19:57):
Thank you? I'm doing okay. I've been a teacher me
Instachusetts for thirty six years, and I have all these
years trusted my Union to do what is right by students.
As a teacher, primarily, I see all my students as
human beings, regardless of their ethnicity, religion, the way they look,
what they believe. And I'm frankly horrified at what the
(20:17):
Union has done with these resources. I was at the
board meeting. I spoke against the resources. I can't understand how,
after seeing one of another teacher hold up those posters
and I felt like we made really good points, how
people could possibly vote to keep those resources. There are
problems at so many levels. At one level, whereas the
(20:40):
communication max page says that educators board members asked for
these resources, I didn't ask for them. I'm not sure
who did ask for them. So there's a problem in communication.
How are the people on the board communicating with their
teachers they supposedly represent. I've never before kind of been
at a board meeting at that level, but I felt
(21:01):
like I had to. On the website, I don't honestly
disagree with the rationale. For example, the MTA says on
the website that their goal is to make school safe
places for students. They encourage members to condemn hate speech
and discrimination, and they also say that anti Semitism has
(21:22):
no place in the Union. Yet I have if you
can think even a little bit, you understand that those
words are completely contradictory to the images. And I'm a
teacher who is doing what I can to fight against
this lunacy. And obviously it's a lot more than that.
It's really dangerous and I fear for the kids in
(21:45):
Massachusetts who might have to be subjected to people teaching
this and indoctrinating them and glorifying hatred, etc. I mean,
I could go on and on, and I really appreciate
that you have this show today. I don't often listen
to the radio, but I'm really happy to kind of
take part.
Speaker 8 (22:04):
In the discussion.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Well, Juanna, first of all, you extraordinarily well spoken, and
if every teacher in Massachusetts, whether it be a public
school teacher a private school teacher, embodied what you've just
expressed to us, you've expressed it better than I could.
And I'm supposed to be a broadcast professional, So thank
(22:25):
you for joining our conversation tonight. I don't know if
you've ever called my program before.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Listen.
Speaker 7 (22:32):
I never called your program before. I haven't listened to
the radio in so long, I was saying to my husband.
We used to listen all the time. So yeah, no,
I haven't.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
First of all, a round of applause for my digital
studio audience, But in all seriousness, radio and talk radio
is extraordinarily important. Okay, I've been doing this for eighteen years.
I was a TV reporter for that and before that
for thirty one years on Channel four. And I do
this not because I have to do it. I'm well
(23:05):
passed what would be considered a normal retirement age of
sixty five. But I do it because I like it.
And I also do it because I think it's important
that there are organizations which are great organizations. As I said,
my kids have gone to public schools when they were
when they were kids in elementary school into junior high school.
(23:25):
They're very successful. And the greatest foundation they had was
the teachers that they had. And I remember, you know
their names, June O'Neil and Linda Fayle and mister Conley,
and I mean, they were just wonderful teachers.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
And I'm not even sure what union those teachers belonged to.
And and I'm a union member. I'm a member of
SAG after so I understand that just because you're a
union member, you don't go along with everything. But I'm
looking at the images that you've seen, the the two
(24:00):
dollar bills shaped in a triangle to represent a star
of David. I mean that is a blood libel. That's
a trope that's been around for centuries. The day of Rage,
the handles return What was taken by force can only
(24:20):
be returned by force. This is nothing but Hamas propaganda.
It's not even pro Palestinian. It's Hamas propaganda, plain and simple.
And anybody who sees it for anything other than that
is ignorant if.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
They don't understand what it is.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And for the leadership of this union to allow those
anti Semitic tropes to be circulated to teachers who many
of whom perhaps are not as experienced as you are,
and would somehow expose students to that, I mean, what
a brilliant stroke by some propaganda. I mean they they're
(25:04):
basically doing the work that Goebbels did in the nineteen
thirties in Nazi Germany. You know, he was the great
propagandist for Hitler, and this is more of the same.
And it's frightening. It's absolutely fright I'm not Jewish. Just
make it very clear. I'm somewhat disappointed that I have
not heard from more of my Jewish listeners, and I
(25:26):
have friends of mine who are Jewish who listen to
this show every night. I happen to be Roman Catholic,
but my dad fought in World War Two and he
taught us at our dinner table decades ago. Never again,
never forget. As a TV reporter, I won an Emmy
for a report that I was fortunate enough to do
(25:47):
from Auschwitz. You cannot go to Outchwitz and not have
your life changed by looking at what happened there. Okay,
I feel this deeply in my soul, Deeply in my soul.
I feel as a as a Christian, as a Catholic,
that I have a more responsibility, a more responsibility above
(26:07):
and beyond my journalistic and my ethical responsibilities to speak
out against hatred, against this population about fifteen million people
in the world who have been beset by bias and
prejudice for generations. So as you can tell, I'm speaking
from my heart, I'm speaking from my soul.
Speaker 7 (26:26):
I really appreciate it. If I can say a couple
more things, sure so. I also I find it insulting,
frankly that again what I was talking about, that the
rationale on the website alongside these images. I mean, it's
just insulting just how you're trying to claim these things,
(26:50):
yet you're showing you know your true colors through the imagery.
They're really I guess if they were trying to teach
students how to look at propaganda the way that you
might teach let's say, Nazi propaganda in a history class
and give it context. That's one thing. There's no mention
of October seventh, as far as I know.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Not to back.
Speaker 7 (27:13):
And so yeah, I do really appreciate the sentiment that
you expressed and the fact that you have the show.
It means a lot.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Look, Joanna, I hope I can convince you to be
a regular listener to the show. You might not agree
with everything I say with you might agree with with
with much of what I say, but on this issue
you have no stronger supporter than than than I have.
And I've learned this since I was a child, you know,
I was. I was born in the same year the
(27:42):
state of Israel was born. And that's that is I
view a cosmic connection. And we have had no greater
friend UH in this country over the years than the
nation of Israel.
Speaker 6 (27:54):
UH.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
And through you know, leaders democratically elected leaders of both
of a variety of parties. As a matter of fact,
it's a multi party status, I'm sure you know. And
for this, I'm looking right now at eight nine posters,
nine posters, I'm in radio. I can't show them to people,
(28:15):
but I can describe them to people.
Speaker 7 (28:17):
Yeah, and one last thing, if I can say it
like you just said, I may not agree with everything.
The point of education is not to agree with your teacher,
to agree with the students in the classroom. It's to
engage in a conversation during which you fully respect the
other person and where they're coming from. You don't have
to agree. So obviously you know that. I just kind
(28:40):
of want to point that out because I'm not, you know,
only calling because I disagree with these these images. It's
with the lack of respect and the lack of seeing
are Jewish students or any students for who they are,
and that is human beings.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
There's basically trying to take kids who are in kindergarten
or grades one through twelve and basically manipulate their minds
at an early age. That's exactly what's going on here.
And it would be as if they were Nazi propaganda
being you know, distributed in a public school. In the
(29:16):
nineteen thirties, when there was a there was there was
support in this country if people read history for the
so called Nazi bond. There were demonstrations and at Madison
Square Garden with you know, tens of thousands of people
in support of Hitler in the nineteen thirties in the
United States of America. We must never forget.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
Thank you so much, all right, thank you, by bye,
thank you, Thank.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
You, Joanne. I appreciate it. Now, all of a sudden,
the phone lines have exploded. Let me go to Warren
in fall Real Warren, you were next on knight zagaright.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Ahead, Hey buddy, how are you doing good?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Wine? Appreciate you calling in.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Yeah, yeah, people like this is I don't know why
this is not categorized under speech. This is like or
like hate propaganda or you know, this is obviously done
to ryle Jewish you know, the Jewish faith, and really people,
(30:19):
I mean this is almost like this is criminal and
it really people.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, I know it's not going to be criminal, but
but and I will say that, and they're off. You know,
free speech, you know elements here, but but when you
start utilizing the public classroom, they're the the idea of
free speech in a in a public classroom being conducted
by a teacher, distributing information and images by that teacher
(30:48):
to the class that takes it out of the realm
in my opinion.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Absolutely, Yeah, it's this is you know, but you know,
I mean they're doing it on purpose, and they're doing
it with you know, with intent. And I mean if
this was you know, if this was anything else other
than a free beach thing, you know people, you know,
a lot of people would be in jail.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Well, I don't know about it in jail. But because
this you see this stuff all the time, but it
shouldn't be introduced in the context of a public school classroom.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
In mind, because you know, we should be a color
blind you know, we should just be a blind society
to you know, to religion, to raise, to you know,
to all that. I mean, we're human beings and that's
what it comes down to, and it's what matters in
the end, you.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Know, and we we wish, yeah, I wish everyone viewed
it as you do. Well, And I'm past my break.
I got you on. I didn't want you to have
to wait through the break that I'm coming right back
on Nightside And thanks for being there for thanks, Warren,
appreciate it. We'll be right back on nights Side right
after this.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Night Side. Studios. I' WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Go to my friend Bobby silver Glade Harvey. Welcome, how
are you? Tonay?
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Fine? Dan? You know that I'm a free speech absolutist.
I know that, However, I do not believe that free
speech applies in the public schools.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yes, I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
Okay, we agree so far. The problem? Have you ever
seen the teacher's contract.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I don't know that. I have seen the teachers contract.
In my role as an attorney, I have seen teachers contracts,
you know, as reported in newspapers. What is the point
you're trying to ask?
Speaker 4 (32:47):
The point I'm trying to make is that because in
the bargaining, in the bargaining session, you've got, you know,
in the private sector, you have two sides that are
equally powerful. We have organized labor and you have management.
In the public sector, you're havery to me on one
(33:07):
side because they're and the problem is that teachers have
an enormous amount of power because these union contracts are
very one sided.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yep, they're also we used to call a law school
contract of adhesion.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Yes they are. If you've ever read one of these,
I have read in the Cambridge they are ridiculous, and
the teachers can do anything they want and they that's
how come this problem has arisen.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And the teachers union, particularly the Maths Teachers Association, wants
to secure legislatively the right to strike in Massachusetts and
that is the next thing on their political agenda. Harvey,
you're right over the target. Darby. I'm telling you we
(34:13):
think we think alike. My friend.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
I'm a political liberal. You're a conservative. I'm a political
not a progressive. I'm a political liberal.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yes you are, Yes you are, and you've identified me properly.
But I'm on so many things. You and I are
an agreement. I so enjoyed. I should have called you
last week. I enjoyed our our meeting in Cambridge with
that young man from Uganda. I'll really be interested in
and see the progress that he's able to make.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
With you, he's going to be well well served. If
I can be of any help in that regard, you
let me know as well.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Harvard Law School, you know I know that.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I know that, and I think if anybody has the
chops to help him negotiate that arduous path, it would
be the person I'm talking to right now.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Thank you all, right, my friend and.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Great and please say how to your son for me. Okay,
it was a pleasure to spend that time. Well we're
talking about you together soon. Thank you, Ivey, appreciate it.
Let's keep rolling here. I'm going to get a couple
more in at least. Let me go too. Harriet in Tewksbury, Harriet,
you're next time nightside, Go right.
Speaker 9 (35:24):
Ahead, yes, hi, Oh, thank you. I used to teach
third grade and I am really disgusted at what's going
on with the school committee and they're striking, and then
they have the nerve to then do dollar signs and
whatever with the Sarah David bring a religion into it
when they go and they think about money over the
children's education. It is just appalling. And the other thing
(35:49):
is that the what's going on is terrible. You go
to services.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
I'm Jewish.
Speaker 9 (35:54):
You go to services, they have to have the police.
They feel unsecure, insecure, and the children see that that
there's something wrong with being Jewish. I think it's.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Really awful what's happening in this society. Really all.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I so appreciate you taking the time to call you
in your point of view, My faith in my audience
is being restored even as we speak. Okay, thank you,
thank thanks, Harriet. Talk soon. Let me try to get
one or two in. Let me go next to Linda
in Westwood. Linda, appreciate you taking the time to call.
(36:29):
Go right ahead.
Speaker 10 (36:30):
Okay, Dan, this is very difficult for me. I'm an educator.
But the reason I'm calling in is my paternal grandparents
were murdered in Germany by the Nazis, and the point
I wanted to make is they were, according to them,
good citizens. My grandfather was a fighter in World War One,
(36:51):
and my grandparents did not believe that what was going
to happen in Germany would happen. My father and my
aunt were able to get out, and my grandparents actually
had a visa to leave the country, and by the
time they really believe what was happening, it was too late.
And if anybody in this country doesn't think it can happen,
(37:12):
look at what's happening now.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah. Well again, I think we all have to be
on guard and make sure that we remain a free
and open society and that people do not abuse institutions
for their own political benefit, which is what I think
the teachers union leadership, not the union, but I think
(37:36):
the teachers' union leadership is attempting to do here.
Speaker 8 (37:39):
I absolutely agree with you.
Speaker 10 (37:41):
But the point again that I'm trying to make is
people really better think for themselves and see what's happening,
because I think there are a lot of people that
are thinking, oh no, this is America, this cannot happen.
My aunt always set her passport up to date in
case she had to leave, and trust me, everyone in
my family has their passports too.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
All Right, Linda, thank you. I want to get one
more call in, but I so appreciate you. You you
sounding that alarm. Thank you so much. Good night. Let
me go to Bob in Gloucester. Bob going to wrap
the hour with you. You're next on Nightsiger, right.
Speaker 8 (38:16):
Ahead, Uncle Bob, call me Uncle Bob out of Gloucester.
I've known he I'm gonna make it as short as
I can. Dan, Sure, it's the worst part. I am Jewish,
but many people are Jewish without he been knowing it.
If you're a brit a soul of the bricks, just
(38:36):
listen to the hymns. If you're a Christian, most people
are righteous. D're on the better side of righteous. We're
all Jewish. We're all like without even knowing it.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
And the worst thing.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Bob, I like, I like to say, Bob, and I
hope you can understand what I'm saying here. I think
I'm I'm reflecting what you're saying. I happen to be
Roman Catholic. And when people ask me why am I
so pro Israel, Why am I so pro Jewish? Why
am I so concerned about anti Semitism? I explained to
them really simply simply that the guy who leads my
(39:12):
religion was Jewish and his parents were Jewish, so I
feel an identity as a Roman Catholic with Judaism.
Speaker 8 (39:23):
Oh, I listened to you night after night, belting it out,
So let me get to the heart of it. Okay,
the worst thing about anti Semitism is its indirect And
by the way, anti Semitism is just what you get
the bad guys on by getting al Capone on tax evasion.
These are bad people. They hate everyone, and it's important
(39:47):
you have to the movie witness. The most important thing
is to be a witness from the other side of
the window. I am speaking from personal experience. People know
me in Gloucester as an unpublished writer lots of ways. Uh,
on the other side of the North Shore is a horseman.
You can poison somebody's work in reaching out at being
(40:09):
a teacher, building a community, community because somebody is a
bad apple and it's going to spread misinformation and take
literally this has happened to me literally over a generation
to sort out what actually happened and destroy all a
lot of work and all the good faith that neighbors
(40:30):
had in each other. All of these people would have
been absolutely horrified. All right to be.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Bob, I hate you you call, You're called late, but
I'm flat out of time, so I gotta let you go.
I look forward to your next call. Thank you, my friend.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Have a great night. Care comes to the eleven back
after the eleven
It's nice with Dan Ray. I'm Boston Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
All right, welcome back everyone. I want to thank my
guest and my cars. Last hour, I thought that was
a very interesting hour, and as a consequence, I'd like
to stick with this hour because it's pretty apparent from
what I have read, uh that the Mass Teachers Union,
the leadership of the Mass Teachers Union, a guy by
(00:31):
the name of Max Page, and his vice he's the
president of the union, and his vice president, you know,
have an agenda here. And the agenda is to uh
work into the curriculum and a viewpoint that that I
strongly disagree with, that the Anti Defamation League strongly disagrees with,
(00:55):
and maybe that you strongly disagree with. And I don't
think this sort of propaganda, disguised as it is as
teaching resources or learning resources. When you see these pictures,
these these it's nothing more than anti Israeli, anti Semitic propaganda.
(01:22):
And I will talk about this for as long as
my audience wants to tonight. If you have an interest
in this, now's the time to reach for your phone
six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty. And if
you want to defend what the Mass Teachers Association is doing.
It's a very powerful institution here in Massachusetts, one hundred
(01:44):
and seventeen thousand teachers. I'm sure the vast overwhelming majority
of those teachers are interested in being in the classroom
and helping the students, be they in kindergarten, any from
kindergarten to grade twelve. I have no concern. My kids
(02:05):
went to public schools throughout elementary school into junior high school.
They had some wonderful public school teachers. I've had public
school teachers, My wife had public school teachers. I probably
wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today if it hadn't
been for a ninth grade civic school teacher at Boston
(02:25):
Latin School back in the day, a guy by the
name of mister Dougherty who taught Civics and really lit
within me an interest and a passion for how learning,
how government works, and part of government. Now are the
unions that are very strong voices for their membership at
(02:49):
the state houses around the country and of course in Congress.
And when the union voice strays from just advocacy for
their membership and starts to get into politics, raw politics,
international politics, that is when it really gets scary. So
(03:12):
I'm gonna I want to hear from teachers. I want
to hear from you, I want to hear from parents.
Is this the sort of garbage that you want your
kids exposed to? Nothing more than political propaganda. It happens
to be anti Israeli and anti Semitic political propaganda. But
(03:34):
you should not be be exposed as a student in
kindergarten through the twelfth grade to propaganda. You're supposed to
be exposed to subjects which will prepare you later in
life to deal with those issues. Let me go to
Tom and Rochester. I'm assuming it's Rochester, Massachusetts. Tom, go
right ahead, it is Dan.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I got in the last minute of the last hour.
My point that I wanted to make was how important
the the effort that our our neighbors put into the
local election for the school board. It is the it
(04:16):
seems to be the the avenue to affect our society.
It's very important. You see how active these people are
in their school boards, right.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
The struggle seems to start there and the Mass Teachers Association, Uh,
they're affected by that. They can they also affect that.
It's like, ultimately this seems to be the it seems
(04:50):
to be the battleground the schools.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
And well it is. No. I think you're right on that,
and I didn't realize that you had held over. But
I'm glad. I'm glad you did because we did.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I didn't mean to be twice I didn't mean to
be twice indulged.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It's just no, no, no, no, no no no. I've
taken you here because I felt you got short change.
The point you were making is important, and I've made
this point to others in terms of elections. Everybody gets
excited about a presidential election, whether you're a Republican, a Democrat,
you know, liberal, conservative or whatever. But you represent probably
(05:25):
one out of I don't know what it is these days,
one hundred and seventy one hundred and seventy five million
votes something like that, whatever it is. When you when
you vote in a governor's race, you you're you're one
of four million residents in Massachusetts, citizens in Massachusetts who
are eligible to vote. You're wanting about four million, So
(05:46):
your vote is stronger in a governor's race, you know,
as a percentage as it would be in a presidential race,
because you're just it's one over you know, one hundred
and seventy million as opposed to one over four million.
But in the local race, you vote really matters, and
you vote really counts. And the influence that you can
exercise in your community by holding out a sign for
(06:10):
a candidate that you happen to believe in, who's running
for city council or for school committee, those are the important,
the most important elections in my.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Well, well when it when it comes to teaching our
children and KYW towering to be in the Massachusetts Teachers Association, yes,
then then there's then there's kind of a synergy there.
If you look at George Soros and Bill Gates and
and Mark Zuckerberg, they know how to amplify their money, right,
(06:42):
they know how to best spend their money to influence
things well.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
There as also there are also multi billionaires and so
they have so much money.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
You know, you can, you can, you can do.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Let me finish my points on if I could, because
I think the point you made is important. Sorrows is
on one side of the political spectrum. At this point,
Zuckelberg apparently has switched from the side that he was
on with Sorrows and now he's over on the other side.
But in either case, the amount of money that they
have available is it's you know, exponential go ahead.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Well, so so Gates. What I understood from Gates was
to multiply his money by spending it smart by and
so so this was kind of interesting. Where do you
spend your money? If you have so much money to spend,
you can throw it after in the George Jeb Bush election,
(07:47):
right the in that twenty sixteen and just throw it away,
Or they're right. People throw a lot of money away
affecting national elections. But people spend real, really good money
affecting local elections.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
And the best example and local election.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I don't know if you could hear me or not,
but the.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Smart money, that's the smart money.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, I don't know if you're able to hear me, Tom,
But the best example that you just alluded to is
what Soros did with district attorney elections around the country
in Boston, in Chicago, in New York, in Philadelphia, in
Los Angeles, and in San Francisco, St. Louis and other
major cities. Uh, those district attorneys, many of them now
(08:32):
who he helped elect, have been moved out of the
office Rachel Rollins here in Boston, George Gascon in Los Angeles. Uh,
the the DA in San Francisco. U who who was?
Who was? Who was recalled? But yeah, those are very
important elections. Tom. I appreciate your time, and I appreciate
(08:54):
the point that you that you made. Thank you very
much for holding through the news. Appreciate it very much.
I'm going to give you folks an opportunity if you
want to follow up on what we talked about last hour.
I'd like to continue to talk about the dangers of
anti Semitism as it creeps within our society and as
(09:16):
it now creeps within the school system. If not, I'm
going to change topics. I've got a topic to go to.
But I'd like to stick with the anti semitism topic
that we opened up last hour. We had some excellent
phone calls last hour, we had excellent guests, and I
would like to stay with it. Uh, if you'd like
to join us six one, seven, two, five, four ten
(09:38):
thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty And
if not, is the audience who always decides how long
the topic stays up for discussion, and if not, we
will move on to different topics right after this quick
break on night Side.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the window World
Light Side Studios on w b in twvidio.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
All right, let's get back to the phone calls. We're
going to go to Ruth in Brookline. Ruth, I appreciate
you calling in. Go right ahead. What's on your mind?
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Ruth?
Speaker 5 (10:11):
Well, okay, can you hear me?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I can hear you?
Speaker 5 (10:14):
Oh great, great. So I was at that hearing last
week in the State House as a spectator and it
was it was pretty shocking. I just wanted to mention
emphasize one thing that came up earlier, but I want
to put a put a greater point on it. The notion.
The notion, the notion that there was materials included in
(10:40):
in those so called resources that were geared toward first grade.
You mentioned them earlier, but Max Cage, they tried, they
tried to sort of justify their materials by saying, we
don't well he did, we don't necessarily agree with these
points of view. The Union is a democratic entity and
(11:02):
I can't really control, you know, what my members, what
people come up with. And I'm not saying I always
so so, but the notion that and and then he
made the point that we're trying to present our teachers
with diverse viewpoints. Of course there was only one side,
so it wasn't diverse quote unquote, but the notion that that,
(11:26):
in other words, you you you could make the case that, oh,
we're showing you these materials so the teachers can can
demonstrate how bias they are or something like that. But
but that whole argument was undercut by these first grade
materials that were so clearly, you know, like bias isn't
(11:48):
even the word for it. I mean, imagine having they
even they even had exercises. They took the little girl's name,
the Palestinian girl who was you know, expelled from her home.
That was the narrative, and part of the workbook assignment
(12:08):
was to for a child to just write that little
girl's name many times, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
As as a matter of fact, I think what you're
referring to is Hondala's Return, which was published last year
by the Palestinian Feminist Collective, include storylines such as a
group of bullies called Zionists on our land, so they
stole it by force and hurt many people. The book
(12:36):
ends with a call to action, urging readers meaning little kids,
to help Cadella Free Palestine, asking them to fill in
prompts such as, I will raise funds for the children
of Palestine by whatever, or I will chant this at
a Palestinian protest. And then another part was they wanted
(12:57):
to have the children just writing the name of the
room girl Handala.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
It's brainwashing. It's worse than pidate. It's brainwashing, I know.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
I mean, but for him to try to make the
point that, oh, we're just trying to present teachers with
diverse materials and they can choose what they want to use, well,
I'm sorry, like first graders, I mean, a first grade
teacher isn't going to look at that and say, gee,
this is I'm going to make an evaluation of this,
(13:31):
and this shows a diverse point of view. It was
a ridiculous argument that, you know, carry no weight. I
just want to make one other point that hasn't been
made earlier this evening, which is that part of the
legislation that created this, this legislative Commission also included like
(13:52):
a recommendation or actually a mandate to the to the
state Department of Education and DESI to come up with
resources and materials on anti Semitism on their website, and
to engage in trainings and professional development for teachers across
(14:16):
the state in the area of anti semitism. That was
that's a that was a section of the legislation that
created this commission. So I just wanted to emphasize the
fact that the state Department of Education, they currently have
put up some materials. I think that there's a lot
(14:38):
more they could be doing. And as you probably know,
in Massachusetts, we don't have a state mandated curriculum. We
have state standards, but really curriculum is very much locally
based and locally determined. But nonetheless, the Department of Education
really has a role to play here and I'm I'm
(15:00):
really hoping that they will you treat this issue with
the urgency that it deserves, especially in light of what
we see the MTA is now doing.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, well, I think that the Department of Education has
a responsibility. I also think the governor and the Attorney
General have a responsibility to know what's going on if
the schools are propagandized, and they need not stand aside quietly. Ruth,
I appreciate you, Carl, Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
Appreciate it, Thank you, thank you for the program.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Okay, bye bye, my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
We had a bunch of folks who were on the line, Rob.
I don't know where they went, but if they want
to call back, that's great. If not, we're going to
move on after the break to a different subject. In
the meantime, let me jump on here quickly with Darryl
up in New Brunswick, Canada. Darrel, appreciate you calling in.
Speaker 6 (15:53):
Go ahead, Hey, Dan, I've been trying to listen, but
our snowstorms and whatnot from there, I just caught the
Hidala thing about the girl from Palestine.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, yeah, we got there, Daryl. Not to take a
lot of time to explain it. But the issue here
is that the Massachusetts Teachers Union Teachers Association, I should
say one hundred and seventeen members have been accused by
some Anti Defamation League back members back here of basically
(16:28):
being anti Semitic and basically trying to get pro Palestinian
and anti Israeli and therefore anti Semitic propaganda into Massachusetts
classrooms who curriculum bite distributed.
Speaker 6 (16:44):
Well, that's where we can hopefully help this out. Is
what about this young girl talking about all the young
children that were killed October seventh.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Well, again, I don't think that, frankly, in the anywhere
from kindergarten to twelfth grade. I agree with you that
this whole thing started on October seventh, and it was
not started by the Israelis, who were started by Hamas
on behalf of Palestinians. I don't think it. I want
to blame Palestinians for that. I blame Hamas, who in
(17:18):
effect have kept the Palestinians captive, if you will, almost
holding the Palestinians hostages before they took the Israelis the
Israeli hostages. But what is going on here is that
we have, you know, people in this leadership of this
teachers union who have a political point of view that
they want to see basically distributed within the school system.
(17:42):
And they're trying to do it by some very underhanded means,
and they've been called out on it, and that's why
we did it.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
And that's wrong. The program and teachers are supposed to
teach students. So what they need to know, yeah, not
their political Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I would think that Darryl, this is the sort of
stuff that would be in a college curriculum, our graduate
school curriculum, not in in in elementary school, not in
what we call middle school or high school. And I'm
sure those terms are the same in Canada.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
Yeah, being overseas, we've seen that same thing, and even
in Canada, that's where it starts in the lower grades.
But that's why you keep up good programming, because this
is why we listening. We respond, all.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Right, Paul, I appreciate it very much, and we'll have
to see how that big hockey game turns out later
on this week. Okay, thanks buddy.
Speaker 6 (18:31):
Let's let's actually with you, with you saying that, let's
hope nobody boozed nothing.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I'm with you on that. I'm with you.
Speaker 6 (18:38):
We're allies through and through right.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Absolutely absolutely have a lot of friends friends, all right,
thanks Daryel, and you're included amongst them. Have a great night.
Good night. We'll take a break. Here's the news at
the bottom of the ear. We're going to change topics
on the other side. We'll be back after this.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's new radio.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
All right, I'm gonna take I'll take a couple of
more calls if you want, and if not, we're going
to switch topics. I am frankly surprised that my audience
is not perceptive enough to realize that anti Semitism has
been with us for millennium, from millennia UH, and it
(19:25):
is reared its ugly head, never more viciously than the
Nazi Holocaust. And if we don't stamp out UH and
at least address this cancer within our society, it will
continue to grow. If you'd like to join this conversation,
(19:46):
I'll give you one more chance. I'm going to go
to Joanna in Stowe, and if Joanna is it, we
will change topics. Joanne, appreciate your call. Whatever your point
of view, you go right ahead, Joanna, how are you
going to heay?
Speaker 7 (19:57):
Thank you? I'm doing okay. I've been a teacher me
Instachusetts for thirty six years, and I have all these
years trusted my Union to do what is right by students.
As a teacher, primarily, I see all my students as
human beings, regardless of their ethnicity, religion, the way they look,
what they believe. And I'm frankly horrified at what the
(20:17):
Union has done with these resources. I was at the
board meeting. I spoke against the resources. I can't understand how,
after seeing one of another teacher hold up those posters
and I felt like we made really good points, how
people could possibly vote to keep those resources. There are
problems at so many levels. At one level, whereas the
(20:40):
communication max page says that educators board members asked for
these resources, I didn't ask for them. I'm not sure
who did ask for them. So there's a problem in communication.
How are the people on the board communicating with their
teachers they supposedly represent. I've never before kind of been
at a board meeting at that level, but I felt
(21:01):
like I had to. On the website, I don't honestly
disagree with the rationale. For example, the MTA says on
the website that their goal is to make school safe
places for students. They encourage members to condemn hate speech
and discrimination, and they also say that anti Semitism has
(21:22):
no place in the Union. Yet I have if you
can think even a little bit, you understand that those
words are completely contradictory to the images. And I'm a
teacher who is doing what I can to fight against
this lunacy. And obviously it's a lot more than that.
It's really dangerous and I fear for the kids in
(21:45):
Massachusetts who might have to be subjected to people teaching
this and indoctrinating them and glorifying hatred, etc. I mean,
I could go on and on, and I really appreciate
that you have this show today. I don't often listen
to the radio, but I'm really happy to kind of
take part.
Speaker 8 (22:04):
In the discussion.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Well, Juanna, first of all, you extraordinarily well spoken, and
if every teacher in Massachusetts, whether it be a public
school teacher a private school teacher, embodied what you've just
expressed to us, you've expressed it better than I could.
And I'm supposed to be a broadcast professional, So thank
(22:25):
you for joining our conversation tonight. I don't know if
you've ever called my program before.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Listen.
Speaker 7 (22:32):
I never called your program before. I haven't listened to
the radio in so long, I was saying to my husband.
We used to listen all the time. So yeah, no,
I haven't.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
First of all, a round of applause for my digital
studio audience, But in all seriousness, radio and talk radio
is extraordinarily important. Okay, I've been doing this for eighteen years.
I was a TV reporter for that and before that
for thirty one years on Channel four. And I do
this not because I have to do it. I'm well
(23:05):
passed what would be considered a normal retirement age of
sixty five. But I do it because I like it.
And I also do it because I think it's important
that there are organizations which are great organizations. As I said,
my kids have gone to public schools when they were
when they were kids in elementary school into junior high school.
(23:25):
They're very successful. And the greatest foundation they had was
the teachers that they had. And I remember, you know
their names, June O'Neil and Linda Fayle and mister Conley,
and I mean, they were just wonderful teachers.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
And I'm not even sure what union those teachers belonged to.
And and I'm a union member. I'm a member of
SAG after so I understand that just because you're a
union member, you don't go along with everything. But I'm
looking at the images that you've seen, the the two
(24:00):
dollar bills shaped in a triangle to represent a star
of David. I mean that is a blood libel. That's
a trope that's been around for centuries. The day of Rage,
the handles return What was taken by force can only
(24:20):
be returned by force. This is nothing but Hamas propaganda.
It's not even pro Palestinian. It's Hamas propaganda, plain and simple.
And anybody who sees it for anything other than that
is ignorant if.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
They don't understand what it is.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And for the leadership of this union to allow those
anti Semitic tropes to be circulated to teachers who many
of whom perhaps are not as experienced as you are,
and would somehow expose students to that, I mean, what
a brilliant stroke by some propaganda. I mean they they're
(25:04):
basically doing the work that Goebbels did in the nineteen
thirties in Nazi Germany. You know, he was the great
propagandist for Hitler, and this is more of the same.
And it's frightening. It's absolutely fright I'm not Jewish. Just
make it very clear. I'm somewhat disappointed that I have
not heard from more of my Jewish listeners, and I
(25:26):
have friends of mine who are Jewish who listen to
this show every night. I happen to be Roman Catholic,
but my dad fought in World War Two and he
taught us at our dinner table decades ago. Never again,
never forget. As a TV reporter, I won an Emmy
for a report that I was fortunate enough to do
(25:47):
from Auschwitz. You cannot go to Outchwitz and not have
your life changed by looking at what happened there. Okay,
I feel this deeply in my soul, Deeply in my soul.
I feel as a as a Christian, as a Catholic,
that I have a more responsibility, a more responsibility above
(26:07):
and beyond my journalistic and my ethical responsibilities to speak
out against hatred, against this population about fifteen million people
in the world who have been beset by bias and
prejudice for generations. So as you can tell, I'm speaking
from my heart, I'm speaking from my soul.
Speaker 7 (26:26):
I really appreciate it. If I can say a couple
more things, sure so. I also I find it insulting,
frankly that again what I was talking about, that the
rationale on the website alongside these images. I mean, it's
just insulting just how you're trying to claim these things,
(26:50):
yet you're showing you know your true colors through the imagery.
They're really I guess if they were trying to teach
students how to look at propaganda the way that you
might teach let's say, Nazi propaganda in a history class
and give it context. That's one thing. There's no mention
of October seventh, as far as I know.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Not to back.
Speaker 7 (27:13):
And so yeah, I do really appreciate the sentiment that
you expressed and the fact that you have the show.
It means a lot.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Look, Joanna, I hope I can convince you to be
a regular listener to the show. You might not agree
with everything I say with you might agree with with
with much of what I say, but on this issue
you have no stronger supporter than than than I have.
And I've learned this since I was a child, you know,
I was. I was born in the same year the
(27:42):
state of Israel was born. And that's that is I
view a cosmic connection. And we have had no greater
friend UH in this country over the years than the
nation of Israel.
Speaker 6 (27:54):
UH.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
And through you know, leaders democratically elected leaders of both
of a variety of parties. As a matter of fact,
it's a multi party status, I'm sure you know. And
for this, I'm looking right now at eight nine posters,
nine posters, I'm in radio. I can't show them to people,
(28:15):
but I can describe them to people.
Speaker 7 (28:17):
Yeah, and one last thing, if I can say it
like you just said, I may not agree with everything.
The point of education is not to agree with your teacher,
to agree with the students in the classroom. It's to
engage in a conversation during which you fully respect the
other person and where they're coming from. You don't have
to agree. So obviously you know that. I just kind
(28:40):
of want to point that out because I'm not, you know,
only calling because I disagree with these these images. It's
with the lack of respect and the lack of seeing
are Jewish students or any students for who they are,
and that is human beings.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
There's basically trying to take kids who are in kindergarten
or grades one through twelve and basically manipulate their minds
at an early age. That's exactly what's going on here.
And it would be as if they were Nazi propaganda
being you know, distributed in a public school. In the
(29:16):
nineteen thirties, when there was a there was there was
support in this country if people read history for the
so called Nazi bond. There were demonstrations and at Madison
Square Garden with you know, tens of thousands of people
in support of Hitler in the nineteen thirties in the
United States of America. We must never forget.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
Thank you so much, all right, thank you, by bye,
thank you, Thank.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
You, Joanne. I appreciate it. Now, all of a sudden,
the phone lines have exploded. Let me go to Warren
in fall Real Warren, you were next on knight zagaright.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Ahead, Hey buddy, how are you doing good?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Wine? Appreciate you calling in.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Yeah, yeah, people like this is I don't know why
this is not categorized under speech. This is like or
like hate propaganda or you know, this is obviously done
to ryle Jewish you know, the Jewish faith, and really people,
(30:19):
I mean this is almost like this is criminal and
it really people.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, I know it's not going to be criminal, but
but and I will say that, and they're off. You know,
free speech, you know elements here, but but when you
start utilizing the public classroom, they're the the idea of
free speech in a in a public classroom being conducted
by a teacher, distributing information and images by that teacher
(30:48):
to the class that takes it out of the realm
in my opinion.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Absolutely, Yeah, it's this is you know, but you know,
I mean they're doing it on purpose, and they're doing
it with you know, with intent. And I mean if
this was you know, if this was anything else other
than a free beach thing, you know people, you know,
a lot of people would be in jail.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Well, I don't know about it in jail. But because
this you see this stuff all the time, but it
shouldn't be introduced in the context of a public school classroom.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
In mind, because you know, we should be a color
blind you know, we should just be a blind society
to you know, to religion, to raise, to you know,
to all that. I mean, we're human beings and that's
what it comes down to, and it's what matters in
the end, you.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Know, and we we wish, yeah, I wish everyone viewed
it as you do. Well, And I'm past my break.
I got you on. I didn't want you to have
to wait through the break that I'm coming right back
on Nightside And thanks for being there for thanks, Warren,
appreciate it. We'll be right back on nights Side right
after this.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Night Side. Studios. I' WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Go to my friend Bobby silver Glade Harvey. Welcome, how
are you? Tonay?
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Fine? Dan? You know that I'm a free speech absolutist.
I know that, However, I do not believe that free
speech applies in the public schools.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yes, I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
Okay, we agree so far. The problem? Have you ever
seen the teacher's contract.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I don't know that. I have seen the teachers contract.
In my role as an attorney, I have seen teachers contracts,
you know, as reported in newspapers. What is the point
you're trying to ask?
Speaker 4 (32:47):
The point I'm trying to make is that because in
the bargaining, in the bargaining session, you've got, you know,
in the private sector, you have two sides that are
equally powerful. We have organized labor and you have management.
In the public sector, you're havery to me on one
(33:07):
side because they're and the problem is that teachers have
an enormous amount of power because these union contracts are
very one sided.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yep, they're also we used to call a law school
contract of adhesion.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Yes they are. If you've ever read one of these,
I have read in the Cambridge they are ridiculous, and
the teachers can do anything they want and they that's
how come this problem has arisen.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And the teachers union, particularly the Maths Teachers Association, wants
to secure legislatively the right to strike in Massachusetts and
that is the next thing on their political agenda. Harvey,
you're right over the target. Darby. I'm telling you we
(34:13):
think we think alike. My friend.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
I'm a political liberal. You're a conservative. I'm a political
not a progressive. I'm a political liberal.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yes you are, Yes you are, and you've identified me properly.
But I'm on so many things. You and I are
an agreement. I so enjoyed. I should have called you
last week. I enjoyed our our meeting in Cambridge with
that young man from Uganda. I'll really be interested in
and see the progress that he's able to make.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
With you, he's going to be well well served. If
I can be of any help in that regard, you
let me know as well.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Harvard Law School, you know I know that.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I know that, and I think if anybody has the
chops to help him negotiate that arduous path, it would
be the person I'm talking to right now.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Thank you all, right, my friend and.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Great and please say how to your son for me. Okay,
it was a pleasure to spend that time. Well we're
talking about you together soon. Thank you, Ivey, appreciate it.
Let's keep rolling here. I'm going to get a couple
more in at least. Let me go too. Harriet in Tewksbury, Harriet,
you're next time nightside, Go right.
Speaker 9 (35:24):
Ahead, yes, hi, Oh, thank you. I used to teach
third grade and I am really disgusted at what's going
on with the school committee and they're striking, and then
they have the nerve to then do dollar signs and
whatever with the Sarah David bring a religion into it
when they go and they think about money over the
children's education. It is just appalling. And the other thing
(35:49):
is that the what's going on is terrible. You go
to services.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
I'm Jewish.
Speaker 9 (35:54):
You go to services, they have to have the police.
They feel unsecure, insecure, and the children see that that
there's something wrong with being Jewish. I think it's.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Really awful what's happening in this society. Really all.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I so appreciate you taking the time to call you
in your point of view, My faith in my audience
is being restored even as we speak. Okay, thank you,
thank thanks, Harriet. Talk soon. Let me try to get
one or two in. Let me go next to Linda
in Westwood. Linda, appreciate you taking the time to call.
(36:29):
Go right ahead.
Speaker 10 (36:30):
Okay, Dan, this is very difficult for me. I'm an educator.
But the reason I'm calling in is my paternal grandparents
were murdered in Germany by the Nazis, and the point
I wanted to make is they were, according to them,
good citizens. My grandfather was a fighter in World War One,
(36:51):
and my grandparents did not believe that what was going
to happen in Germany would happen. My father and my
aunt were able to get out, and my grandparents actually
had a visa to leave the country, and by the
time they really believe what was happening, it was too late.
And if anybody in this country doesn't think it can happen,
(37:12):
look at what's happening now.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah. Well again, I think we all have to be
on guard and make sure that we remain a free
and open society and that people do not abuse institutions
for their own political benefit, which is what I think
the teachers union leadership, not the union, but I think
(37:36):
the teachers' union leadership is attempting to do here.
Speaker 8 (37:39):
I absolutely agree with you.
Speaker 10 (37:41):
But the point again that I'm trying to make is
people really better think for themselves and see what's happening,
because I think there are a lot of people that
are thinking, oh no, this is America, this cannot happen.
My aunt always set her passport up to date in
case she had to leave, and trust me, everyone in
my family has their passports too.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
All Right, Linda, thank you. I want to get one
more call in, but I so appreciate you. You you
sounding that alarm. Thank you so much. Good night. Let
me go to Bob in Gloucester. Bob going to wrap
the hour with you. You're next on Nightsiger, right.
Speaker 8 (38:16):
Ahead, Uncle Bob, call me Uncle Bob out of Gloucester.
I've known he I'm gonna make it as short as
I can. Dan, Sure, it's the worst part. I am Jewish,
but many people are Jewish without he been knowing it.
If you're a brit a soul of the bricks, just
(38:36):
listen to the hymns. If you're a Christian, most people
are righteous. D're on the better side of righteous. We're
all Jewish. We're all like without even knowing it.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
And the worst thing.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Bob, I like, I like to say, Bob, and I
hope you can understand what I'm saying here. I think
I'm I'm reflecting what you're saying. I happen to be
Roman Catholic. And when people ask me why am I
so pro Israel, Why am I so pro Jewish? Why
am I so concerned about anti Semitism? I explained to
them really simply simply that the guy who leads my
(39:12):
religion was Jewish and his parents were Jewish, so I
feel an identity as a Roman Catholic with Judaism.
Speaker 8 (39:23):
Oh, I listened to you night after night, belting it out,
So let me get to the heart of it. Okay,
the worst thing about anti Semitism is its indirect And
by the way, anti Semitism is just what you get
the bad guys on by getting al Capone on tax evasion.
These are bad people. They hate everyone, and it's important
(39:47):
you have to the movie witness. The most important thing
is to be a witness from the other side of
the window. I am speaking from personal experience. People know
me in Gloucester as an unpublished writer lots of ways. Uh,
on the other side of the North Shore is a horseman.
You can poison somebody's work in reaching out at being
(40:09):
a teacher, building a community, community because somebody is a
bad apple and it's going to spread misinformation and take
literally this has happened to me literally over a generation
to sort out what actually happened and destroy all a
lot of work and all the good faith that neighbors
(40:30):
had in each other. All of these people would have
been absolutely horrified. All right to be.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Bob, I hate you you call, You're called late, but
I'm flat out of time, so I gotta let you go.
I look forward to your next call. Thank you, my friend.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Have a great night. Care comes to the eleven back
after the eleven
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