March 17, 2025 • 40 mins
We kicked off the program with four news stories and different guests on the stories we think you need to know about!
Successful Fundraiser on Saturday for the Mary Ann Brett Food Pantry! Jim Brett checked in with Dan to review the event.
Essex County Trail Association’s Tails for the Trails - 5k Casual Canicross Coming up on March 29th! Martha Sanders – Chair of the Board of Directors for the Essex County Trail Association joined Dan.
Law at the Movies: Turning Legal Doctrine into Art - the understanding of law, cinema, and the intricate interplay between the two! With Dr. Stanley Fish – author of “Law at the Movies”.
Survey: Nearly 90% of Americans believe tipping is getting out of hand today! Scott Baradell - Branding & Consumer Trends Expert with Idea Grove gets at the tip of the iceberg.
Listen to WBZ NewsRadio on the NEW iHeart Radio app and be sure to set WBZ NewsRadio as your #1 preset!
Successful Fundraiser on Saturday for the Mary Ann Brett Food Pantry! Jim Brett checked in with Dan to review the event.
Essex County Trail Association’s Tails for the Trails - 5k Casual Canicross Coming up on March 29th! Martha Sanders – Chair of the Board of Directors for the Essex County Trail Association joined Dan.
Law at the Movies: Turning Legal Doctrine into Art - the understanding of law, cinema, and the intricate interplay between the two! With Dr. Stanley Fish – author of “Law at the Movies”.
Survey: Nearly 90% of Americans believe tipping is getting out of hand today! Scott Baradell - Branding & Consumer Trends Expert with Idea Grove gets at the tip of the iceberg.
Listen to WBZ NewsRadio on the NEW iHeart Radio app and be sure to set WBZ NewsRadio as your #1 preset!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBSY, Boston's radio home.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Thank you very much, Nicoll, hold you and yours and
everyone in the audience had a great Saint Patrick's Day weekend.
Nobody got in any sort of trouble with anyone. My
name's Dan Ray. Host of Nightside, Rob Brooks is in
the control room back at the Big Broadcast Control Room
in downtown Medford, and we are set for another week
(00:27):
of Nightside. I will be here god willing five nights
this week from eight until midnight, so we have wats
to cover between now and Friday night at midnight. We
we'll be talking at nine o'clock tonight about some late
developments on the eve of the White Stadium legal battle
with a representative of both points of view on this
(00:49):
interesting case. We'll talk about that, and we'll also talk
about some of the deportations in the back and forth
that's been going on between the White House and a
judge down in Washington, DC, and give you a chance
to weigh in. But first, we of course have the
eight o'clock hour and I have four interesting guests, none
more interesting than my good friend Jim Brett. Jim and
(01:10):
I are together just about every Saint Patrick's Day weekend.
We were at the Dorchester sixteenth annual Saint Patrick's Day
Brunch on Saturday from nine thirty to noon at the
Saint Teresa of Calcutta Parish Hall. Jim Brett, welcome back.
I think we had a pretty pretty good morning in Dorchester.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I think we did better than a pretty good morning,
and I thank you for your support and your advocacy
on behalf of the food Pantry. As you said, it's
sixteenth anniversary of putting this breakfast together, and I wouldn't
be able to do any of these sixteen dinners breakfast
without the support of my wife, Patty, and I am
(01:56):
grateful for her her advocacy. I'm making sure that the
breakfast is a stellar event and anyone that comes to
the event, and I always say good people come together
for a good cause, and that cause is the Food Pantry,
and it's needed now more than ever. Even in our
(02:18):
own neighborhoods in Boston, there are people who are looking
for an extra bag of groceries, and quite frankly, the
bags that we prepare and distribute to our neighbors and
our neighbors in need, they're about one hundred dollars worth
of goods, all nutritious items, and that makes a world
(02:40):
of difference to a lot of our neighbors. So you
don't have to go far to find a way to
help your neighbor in need. And this is what we
do at the Marianne Bread Food Pantry each and every week.
Not only do we give out the groceries and the
packaged goods and the kins of beans, but on occasion
(03:01):
people will come to us and say, we have toys
we want to distribute to you, to you to give
to the to the children in Rochester and rock spray
matter pants. There are people who come in with clothing,
brand new clothing, and say, why don't you distribute that
to some of your neighbors. And I'm telling you, when
you distribute a brand new jacket or a brand new sweater,
(03:22):
you and I may take for that granted it's a
new sweater. You give it to somebody in the neighborhood
and they they may say this the first time I've
ever had a new new sweater. So that's why I
always say, you don't have to go far to find
a way of making a difference. The marian Bread Food
pantry with extraordinary volunteers. I'm making a difference and helping
(03:43):
our neighbors cope, cope with day to day struggles that
they're having. And we do all five hundred families a month.
And you know, the volunteers are just that, they're volunteers.
But you know when anybody comes to that food pantry fundraiser,
I really believe they open their eyes at the same
time there their heart is touched by what that food
(04:06):
pantry represents in the neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, it's amazing, it's in a beautiful what used Well,
I guess what still is Saint Margaret's Church. I know
there's a little bit of it's named because of a
visit that I think Saint Teresa made there many years
ago called It's in the Saint Teresa of Calcutta Parish
Hall at church. Yes uh. And of course this was
(04:29):
started by the Brett family, a great family from Dorchester
in honor of your your late mom Mary and Brett,
which which honors her memory and helps so many people
over the course of a year. Is it five hundred
families that.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
That we do about five hundred families a month? We
do five hundred families a month, and.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, I assume that that cast can that group of
families can change over the course of the year. So
it's just not four hundred. Yeah, it may be ye,
many more than five hundred who at some point are help.
Maybe some are help there every month. Right, So once
tell us if people are in the neighborhood and they
need it, need some help, how do they get in
touch with you? The money's been raised, h you know what,
(05:16):
the hard work has been done for a year by
the Bread family. But boy, how do they get in touch?
They get it? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Who's Yeah, well it could be John Roni father John
Ronigan at the church itself. But you know it would
be wonderful is just to have volunteers. We always look
for volunteers. Boy, if they ever came by the Fool
pantry on any given Saturday morning from nine to eleven,
and we do have them on occasion to come and
(05:44):
to h and to observe what we do. I think
they get addicted and they said, I want to be here,
I want to help. I feel as though I'm making
a difference. So I would suggest anyone on the radio
listening audience, if you're interested in knowing more about the
food pintry.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Come by in.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Any Saturday morning between nine and eleven, and I think
you will be pretty as I say, I think anyone
that comes, they are their eyes will be opened and
the hard will be touched by what we do.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Well, you had a great turnout. You had most of
the politicians who represent the area. I know that Congressman
Lynch always makes a very generous donation and actually gives
people an opportunity to have a tour of the capital,
a legitimate tour of the capital where you're invited in
(06:37):
and they get I think, get to have lunch with him.
I know that's an item that a lot of people
are always very anxious to bid on. And I mean
there's some artwork there and there's a lot of sports tickets,
so it's a great it's a great event. People. How
could they You must have a website, I assume where
people can also get some more information, I hope, but.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
You know they could. I'd like to see them come
to the first of all, come to the church. But
you could call my office uh six one, seven, seven,
two three four oh oh nine, and I'll give them
more information on whether they want to contribute the time
or donate, donate some clothing or some toys, and the
(07:20):
and the future. But you can call that number and
just ask for me, and I'll be more than happy
to give them the information that will bring them, you know,
directly to the food pantry. But you know I use
this wonder.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Let me just let me repeat that number one more time, Jim, okay,
six six seven.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Seven to three seven two three four oh oh nine.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Okay, and Rob write that number down in case anyone
misses it, because it's tough to uh to write numbers.
But again, you seventeenth annual Saint Patrick's Brunch. What day
will it fall? And it's always on the Saturday of
Saint Patrick's Day weekend. I want to make plans to
be here.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I haven't looked at the caer, but it is the
Sat before the big Shindy in South Boston, their breakfast,
So it's always that weekend of the festivities.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
And self, I'll bet you, I'll bet it's going to
be I'll bet it's going to be the fourteenth, because
I think what happens is days get moved up. This
was not but so sometime in early March, and what
we should do next year Jim is, maybe talk about
it sometime in January as we're coming up to it
would be great, great to that would be great to
talk about what was accomplished. And a lot of money
(08:32):
was raised, and a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
A lot of money, a lot of nice people. Yeah,
I mean, the generosity was overwhelming. There are just no
words too, There were really no words adequate enough to
just express my deep appreciation. But I'll tell you a
wonderful example is that we had a gentleman who gave
us one hundred dollars for the last five years and
(08:55):
we always appreciated. This year became as a recipient and
asking for a bag of groceries, which tells me that
we're only we're only a few steps away ourselves from
being a donor to a recipient. So uh, it could
be a health issue in the family, termination of employment.
(09:18):
I mean, we don't judge, but it was remarkable how
it just so quickly it could turn that somebody is
now saying, look, when I was able to I gave.
Now I'm asking if you could give me in the
some assistance.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Much going from going from being a donor to a
to a beneficiary simple as simple as that right, Jim
Brett is always great to see you on Saturday. Thanks
for what you and brother Bill and Harry and your
sisters do in memory of.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
You and and my bride Patty. I don't want to
go as you know, she had a new balanced shoes on.
She was running all over the.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Breakfast.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Look I've learned over the year without Patty, it doesn't happen,
So trust me on that you want to.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Right, what ma'am?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Thanks Jimmy, talk soon.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
All right, thank you, You're very welcome.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Good night. All right, we get back. We're going to
talk about tales for the Trails if you're up in
Essex County. I think there's some exercise involved in the
next one. And then we're going to talk a little
bit later on with a book author called Law at
the Movies. I'm looking to be really interested in that.
And then we're going to talk with someone about the
fact that tipping tipping is getting out of control in
(10:39):
many respects. So those would be the three other topics
we'll talk about between now and nine. And we'll get
into the issue of the White Stadium lawsuit that's going on.
There's there's some very strong feelings on both sides of
this case, and we'll talk to people represented on both sides,
and then we'll talk about the deportations that went on
this weekend. And I think it's I think that's a
(11:02):
really interesting issue that we're going to get into pretty deeply.
After ten o'clock back on night Side. My name is
Dan Ray. No phone calls yet, but we'll get to
you right after the nine on that stay with us
back after this.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
night Side Studios. I'm WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Well Spring is right around the corner. Sat Patrick's Day.
Weekend is ending in a couple of hours, and for
me that is always the marker that winter is over
and spring is here. The Essex County Trail Association's tail
for the trails five K casual can Across coming up
on March twenty ninth. Talking with Martha Sanders. She is
(11:46):
the chair of the Board of Directors for the Essex
County Trail Association and this is called the can Across.
I'm thinking the first four letters there of C A
and I might have something to do with K nine
him Martha Savis.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Hi, I'm fine, Thank you, thanks so much for having
me on. Yes, you're correct, Candi. The candy part is
for canine. It's actually sort of a hybrid of canine
and cross country because this is a cross country run
with a person and a dog who are attached.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Really really, now, how many years have you? Is this
the first time? I've never heard of this one before.
You've probably have done it for twenty years that I've
just never.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Heard of it. It is fairly new. It's new to
this area. This is our third coming up a week
from Saturday, and so it's a fairly new event. We're
an old organization forty we've been in business for forty years,
and we do lots of trail events. This is fairly
new and it's the only race of its kind in Massachusetts.
(12:53):
I think there is another one now, I'm not sure
when it is in Medfield possibly, but it's more of
a dog walk and can across. A few choose to
do it, but we we expect people to, you know,
adhere to the rules that are very specific for Canton Cross.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I have never heard of this before. Okay, I have
never heard of anything like this before. When you think
about let's say a five K or a ten K.
Now five K is going to be about three point
one miles if I recall correct exactly. Okay, yeah, Now
are these trails wooded trails where there's you know tree,
(13:34):
you know trees, roots of trees or is this a
fairly flat course?
Speaker 5 (13:39):
First of all, well, this is one of our challenges
when we decided a few years ago that we wanted
to do this. We needed to find the right locations
for it, because there are two things you need. Well,
diverse terrain is always preferable, but you need to start
in a big open field because when you have fifty
sixty people and their dogs in a start line and
(14:04):
they need to get sorted out. So what happens is
we're up in West Newbury. We start in the outfield
of a ball field. We have a big, wide line
and then within a few minutes the field of runners
starts to narrow down. The fastest people are out in front,
and it gets because by the time they go through
the fields, they're going to be in the woods and
(14:26):
then it's single track for part of it, and their
hills their roots there. So it's it's it's somewhat challenging,
it's not terribly difficult, but the main challenge is getting
in sync with your dog to do it. Because you've
got a waste belt. You have a bungee cord, so
(14:48):
you have an elastic cord that's six to ten feet long,
and then it's attached to a dog with a running harness.
And a running harness is one where they it's clipped.
The contact point is to are there back in and
it's it's designed so that they can pull and it's
comfortable for them. So you're attached.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, let me ask you. I'm really fascinated. This is
this your group Tails for the Trails? Is there a
charity that benefits from this or is this really.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Or is this fantastically an.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Event that that has been put together which pays for itself.
I don't know if there are prices or not. I'm
probably asking more questions than I have a right to,
but I try to anticipate the questions that that people
would be it because I know there are people right
now who are listening. I've never heard of this and
want to participate. We will give your website at the
(15:43):
end of the interview. But this is not a benefit
for you know, homeless dogs or anything like that. This
is this is an event period, correct.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
It's an it benefits Essex County Trail Association. That's our organization,
and we protect and maintain hundreds of miles of trails
in Essex County, just in six towns. So we have
these events. We have trail runs and other events over
the course of the year to you know, boost awareness
of the trails, to engage with our trail users, and
(16:18):
also to raise money to pay for very expensive trail
maintenance and trail projects.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
So that's what we do, okay, okay, So there is
there is a purpose above and beyond just getting out
and running three point one miles with few other people
and your dog. So I get that. Okay, that's good.
So as I understand it, by the way, is the
prize bragging rights at the end? I see that you
have top three finishes in different divisions. What if the
(16:48):
prize is great, If it's just for bragging rights, that's
okay too.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
We do give up prizes, you know, there are no
trophies or anything like that. So this gift certificates and
sometimes it's gear. It's it's candycross gear and so it's both.
It's it's are there are.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
There a lot of let me, are there a lot
of people up in Essex County who get their exercise
and get there. I mean, I see a lot of
people walking dogs where I live, you know, on a
Sunday afternoon or Saturday morning, walking their dog. But I
don't now Again, maybe it's happening and I'm just not
familiar with the trails. Is this something that you folks
(17:28):
have developed here or is it something that become more
common around the state.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
So it's quite popular in northern Europe and it began
as a way to exercise sled dogs off season. So
you because you it's it's very similar to that. You know,
you're your dog is pulling, but the differences you're running.
But the people who do this a lot use voice
commands similar to what you would use with sled dog.
(17:56):
With sled dogs, you you have certain commands to go left,
to go ride or slow down, our speed up. So
it's it. But it hasn't really taken off here because
it is sort of I think people now.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Spend on night side. Come on, come on, now that
it's spend on night shide, are you going to be overwhelmed?
Give me the website. So if anybody by the way,
the event is on March twenty ninth. Yes, and that
is a Saturday or Sunday. I got to look at
my calendar here.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
It's a week from Saturday week for Saturday. It's a
Pipe Stave Hill in West Newbury Pipe Stave Hill Recreation Area.
It's on Route one thirteen. We have a dog rescue
coming with adoptable puppies to do a meet and greet.
It is definitely something that spectators can at least watch
(18:48):
the start and finish off because we are on this
We start on this ball field and it's pretty entertaining.
We had sixty people last year. We're on track to
have the same number number this here. All different types
of dogs, all different types and ages of people, and
it's really hilarious. The dogs in the beginning all start barking.
(19:10):
We actually had to get a megaphone for this event
because people couldn't hear our trail instructions because the dogs
all start barking and it's.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
We're getting a little tight on time here. So I've
probably used some of my question too many questions here,
But Martha, is there a website we can send people to.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Yes, it's ecta online dot org.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Ec let me spill. Ea do I do this professionally,
so help let me help you. Okay, ECTA, you go
right ahead. It's e C t A and what is
after that?
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Online? Yeah, line online dot org.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Perfect, and it's twenty five dollars for ECTA members, thirty
five for non members. ECTA online dot org. I wish
you the best of luck. It should be a lot
of fun for dog owners, and I hope everybody has
a very safe and healthy run. Tales for the trails.
This should be a lot of fun. Saturday, March twenty ninth, ECTA.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
On LinkedIn dot org.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Thank you very much. You're very welcome.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
We thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
We'll do it again. Thank you much. Talk to you soon.
Now we have the news at the bottom of the hour.
Let me remind you we're kind of moving pretty fast tonight.
My name is Dan Ray and the host of Nightside.
And of course this is an iHeartRadio station WBZ ten
thirty and your Am Dial, Boston's news radio station. But
also you can get the iHeart app for free. Download
(20:42):
the iHeart app and you could make WBZ your first preset.
It's like so simple, it's almost the same as in
your car or in your radio. At home. So we
are always going to be just a one finger touch
away from wherever you are in the world. You can
listen to us three hundred and sixty five days a year, uh,
twenty four to seven, wherever you are. So it's the
(21:04):
it's the iHeart app just downloaded. I think most people
know of what I speak. It's pretty simple. I'll be back.
We're going to talk with doctor Stanley Fish about lot
of the movies, and we also have one more segment
after that talking about tipping. Is tipping getting out of control?
I kind of think it is. We'll see what my
guest says. Coming back on night Side right after the
(21:24):
news at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Thank you very much, Nicole, as we move into our
third guest tonight, which I think is going to be interesting,
Dr Stanley Fish, Doctor Fish, how are you, sir? Welcome
to Nightside.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
Well I'm fine, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
You're very welcome. So you have a new book out.
You're a professor. You're a law professor at the Florida
International University.
Speaker 6 (21:56):
Well, uh, I have a war I have a new
appointment at New College Florida beginning this year. But I
was a law professor for a long time.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
That's okay. I'm a lawyer here in Boston, so it's
always nice to meet a law professor. The book that
you've written is Law at the Movies, turning legal doctrine
into art and understanding of law cinema and the intricate
interplay between the two. How did you ever come up
with this idea? I think it's a great idea.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
Two teaching. Most of my ideas come from teaching, and
I had the idea one time, about six years ago,
why not teach a course on the law and the movies,
in part because I wanted to attract students, and that
course did, in fact attract students.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Now I'm looking at the cover. A lot of the
movies that you that you have are movies that a
lot of us are familiar with. Twelve Angry Men, High Noon,
That All Judgment at Nuremberg, Inherit the Wind, the Crucible
Man for All Seasons, Anatomy of for Murder. You don't
(23:06):
have Reversal of Fortune on this list. I'm very disappointed
because I had a role in Reversal of Fortune.
Speaker 6 (23:12):
I didn't know that and Reversal of Fortune was one
of one of the movies that could have been on
the list because matters of legal doctrine are very much
discussed and elaborated in that film.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
As you know, Yes, that was the for those who
don't remember, it was the Clouds fun Bulau movie in
which Alan Dershowitz eventually uh did his appeal for him.
It's a great movie. And and I had a speaking role,
and I had my I m dB. Uh I'm listed
(23:44):
in the International Movie Database as a consequence of that.
So anyway, well tell us I envy you.
Speaker 6 (23:49):
I envy you.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
That Uh no, not not a problem at all. And uh,
you know there was really it was. It was a
lot of fun. And well, tell us give us an
example of a couple of the lessons that people will
learn from reading the book. Many people will have seen
(24:10):
the movies, and many of them maybe we'll go back
and rewatch the movies as well as a result of
being the book.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
What I'm interested in are movies that don't simply refer
to legal doctrine along the way, but grow out of
legal doctrine, so both the plot and the characters depend
on legal doctrine. One example might be the crucible, where
the issue is what kind of evidence is authoritative and
(24:43):
could be the basis of convicting someone, either evidence in
the usual run of law courts or evidence that comes
from supposedly spiritual witnessing. So that's one movie that's about evidence.
That another anatomy of a is I think a movie
about the craft of law. And what we watch when
(25:07):
we look at anatomy of a movie our lawyers telling
us how it is that they first choose to take
a client and then find a way of defending the client,
and then present the client's defense in court. So I'm
not interested in movies that have a law theme, like
(25:28):
To Kill a mocking Bird, which of course also occurs
in the courtroom. But that's a movie about race. My
law movies are about law and the way it works.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, it sounds fascinating. Has this book just come out?
By the way, it looks to.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
Me like a five months ago?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Okay, so this is a new book that what what's
what sort of law do you teach in school? You
a criminal, criminal justice, lawyer or constitution?
Speaker 6 (25:58):
Now I teach constitutional law. I have a juris student's
Chase book, and I also teach First Amendment law, and
I teach religion in the law. Those are my main topics.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Well, those are great subjects. Those subjects will never and
we deal with a lot of legal issues here on
Night Side. And when I worked as a television reporter
for CBS here in Boston, spent many years, about fifteen years,
trying to get four men out of prison who had
(26:32):
been wrongfully and intentionally incarcerated by a corrupt member of
the Federal Winter's Protection Program, actually the first member, the
first member Federal Witness Protection program, along with some corrupt
FBI agents. They did quite a job on putting some
people away who were not angels, but they had never
(26:55):
committed the crime for which they were tried and died
and tried and convicted. And it took us. I worked
with a lawyer who for many years had worked fruitlessly
on behalf of the I would say, the most innocent
of all the clients, who had no significant criminal record
at all, but he had borrowed some money from this
(27:16):
guy who eventually became the prototype for the Federwids Protection program.
And my last day on television, they were awarded one
hundred and one million dollars two of them who were
still alive, one is still alive, and two who died
in prison. Basically about a million dollars every year in
prison any of them spent. So the longer you're in,
the more money you got. They eventually got everything they
(27:38):
actually got with interest in all of that during the appeals,
all the one hundred and sixteen million dollars, And it
was Elena came last decision as Solicitor General not to
seek cert and that was about a week or so
before she was nominated in twenty ten to the US
Supreme Court by President Obama.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
As a native, as a native of Providence, Rhode Island,
I can readily believe that there is corruption in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yes, well, he of course think this corruption, this corruption everywhere, unfortunately,
but the corruption here was amongst FBI agents who had
badges and guns and used that authority to put innocent
people in prison. So how long did it take you
to write this book and how long did you settle
on the movies? Did you get like a whole big
(28:27):
list of movies or did you know right from the
beginning what movies you wanted to highlight?
Speaker 6 (28:33):
A couple of years to write the book, some of
the movies just in fact present themselves, because you have
to write about twelve angry men when you're doing a
book like this, And also Anatomy of a murder, and
I think also Judgment at Nuremberg, which plays out the
(28:53):
very old debate between natural law and man made law
in a way that very very powerful.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, having visited Nuremberg, I guess it was about seven
or eight years ago. It's amazing to look at that
building where the trials were held. I'm sure that you
probably had been there and realized what horrific history was
uh was made that that eventuated in the in the
trials and the convictions of so many of those German
(29:25):
German leaders. So the book, I assume you can get
it through Amazon, uh and uh at bookstores as well.
It's simply called Law at the Movies, Turning Legal Doctrine
into Art by Stanley Fish uh And I hope a
lot of our listeners, we have a lot of lawyers
who listen that they're gonna they're gonna get a copy
(29:46):
of this book and get it from Amazon or is
there a direct can they get it from your web?
Some some authors have a website where people can order
it from the website.
Speaker 6 (29:56):
I've never mastered the art of website, so I don't
have that.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
You should have someone do it for you, because what
can happen is it can help you because people love
to get books inscribed by authors, and some authors have
told me that that actually is interesting because people can
can order the book and get the author to inscribe it.
And I think some people feel a little closer to
(30:22):
the to the book, as they say, if you get
a chance to watch Reversal of Fortune, you'll see me
go by in about thirty seconds on the screen. Glenn
Close was spectacular. Jeremy Irons won the Oscar that year
for the Leader Male Actor, and we've not been able
(30:42):
to work. Friends of mine joke with me and they'll say,
you know, when are you going to do another movie?
And I said, well, you know, Glenn Close and Jeremy
Irons and I just keep reading scripts and we can't agree.
And that's a joke. So you understand. It was a
It was a very It was it was a look
break for me to have my one and only appearance
(31:03):
on the big screen.
Speaker 6 (31:05):
Well I'm waiting. I'm waiting for my big closs up.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Don't worry it'll happens to all of us, Professor Fish,
Doctor Fish really enjoyed our conversation, looking forward to reading it,
and we will. We will talk again.
Speaker 6 (31:20):
I hope it's so Thank you so much. I have
a new book on film walk that I'm writing now.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Well, when that comes out, give us a call and
we'll get you back on.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
Okay, it's a deal.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Sounds great, okay, Professor doctor Stanley Fish, thank you very much.
When we get back here on Night Side, we will
wrap it up. We're going to talk about tipping. I
think I think a lot of people have opinions on that,
but the opinion that will count tonight will be the
opinion of my guest who join us right after this
quick break, Scott Barradell, Branding and Consuming consumer trends expert,
(31:57):
about whether or not tipping is getting out of hand
or out of control. Back on nights Side right after this.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
All right, I think all of us have noticed that
the way in which people are asked to tip has
changed a lot in the last few years. With us
is Scott baradel He's a branding and consumer trends expert
with the Idea Grove and love to get your take
on all of this. I guess ninety percent of Americans
think tipping's a little getting out of hand. As it were,
(32:34):
good after good evening, Scott.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
How are you good? How are you good?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Great? Tell us about your your findings.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
Well, this is a survey by a company called wallet
Hub with those personal finance app and yeah, come at
night with that night.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I'm familiar with wallet hub. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Yeah, Well of the people in the survey are not
happy with how tipping has expanded to where it's basically
everywhere you go out from from uh you know, the
coffee chop to self serve kiosks, I mean, take your pick.
You can't escape it.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, and it's it's I think that. Look when people
go to a restaurant and there's a waiter, who's a
waitress coming by and filling your water, taking your order,
you know, sending something back that might not be done
to your to your liking and all of that. Yeah,
there's there's a service there. But when you simply order
a cup of coffee and donut, even though the people
(33:30):
behind the country, you know that they're not being paid
a lot of money. Every once in a while, I
shouldn't say every once in a while, probably most of
the time I do leave a tip, but there's still
something about it that it's it's very different from what
you would leave. You're feeling for a waiter or a waitress,
uh or or someone who gives you a haircut, and
(33:52):
as someone who just basically, you know, hands you a
donut and you go down and you pick up your
coffee at the end of the counter. But the golden
goose is going to be killed here, I think, if
I'm not mistaken, what's your thought on that.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
Well, I think you're absolutely right. I mean to go
back to the history of tipping the United States that
started in the last half of the nineteenth century. It
used to be something wealthier people did for service workers,
you know, porters on train cars and so forth. And
now it's kind of gravitated to where it became mainly
for wait staff at restaurants and you know, concierge at
the hotel, people that did your hair. And it used
(34:30):
to be for you know, a reward for a really
good service. Now, of course, what it's come become in
more recent years is kind of obligatory, Like you're a
jerk if you don't give someone the twenty percent tip,
even if they didn't give you great service. I mean,
because we all know that they account for the expected
tips when they give these waiters and waitresses, for example,
(34:51):
such wages, and so we all know that and we've
come to expect Oh well, I guess we just have
to leave that tip. Well, what happened in twenty eighteen is,
you know, and some of these gaps came around and
all of a sudden, you're paying through your through an
iPad at a lot of places, and they could pre
set it to put these tip options up there so
(35:11):
you could without saying a word saying, you know, maybe
these places that might have had a tip chart that
might have gotten a few bucks during the day. They're
sticking this in your face. The person who's who's surfing
is saying, you know, here's a decision for you to make,
and it's like, you want to leave a twenty percent tip,
twenty five or other, and then if you put the other,
you know, you kind of go to the other screen
where they're seeing a punch a bunch of buttons and
(35:32):
they're like oh, jerk, you didn't leave me a tip.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah no, So let me ask you this, how did
that come to be? I mean, I've seen it obviously,
and it's even for example, you go into a you know,
you're on vacation and you go into a fish market
and you buy you know, you know, some shrimp and
you buy this, and you're having a cookout for some people,
(35:57):
and you could easily spend one hundred bucks, but there's
really no service. It's like, you know, putting some shrimp
in a bag, take and the and the tip would
be you know, ten percent, that's ten bucks. Twenty percent
is twenty bucks. That's a huge tip for like a
thirty second interaction.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
No kidding. Well, I'll tell you. I took my two
boys to get a haircut at one of these you
know haircut places that are just for kids. And yeah,
and I the hair the person cuts their hair. Uh,
does a fine job. You cut two boys hair, right,
And I go to the counter and she says, here's
the options. It said twenty five, thirty or fifty percent.
(36:40):
Those are my choices. So if I didn't want to
leave at least a twenty five percent tip on these
two haircuts, I feel like I'm cheap. That's what they're
wanting to do. But how it all started, you know,
it really all started with just an easier way to
pay by credit card. But then it was so easy,
it was so easy to add this tip option. You know,
it's a business. So what do you got to lose?
(37:01):
You know, you're thinking, oh, maybe my you know, I
can I don't have to pay my people as much
because they'll be tipped. They'll get some portion of their
compensation in tips that they didn't get before this all.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Really even though, yeah, here's a dirty little secret. The
durty little secret is that waiters and waitresses would much
prefer pictures of dead presidents. Then they would tip, you know,
on the end of a credit card bill. And sometimes
what I'll do is I'll pay with the credit card
and then tip with cash. And I think that they
appreciate that more because it's not showing up anywhere. I
(37:33):
had a situation, oh maybe a month ago, went into
kind of one of these fancy schmancy ice cream places.
My wife and I took our grandson in there, and
like two ice cream cones and they weren't even they
were small scoops in a dish or something like, you know,
sixteen fifty. So I went and heard a woman twenty
and she said, oh, we don't take cash. I've never
(37:55):
had that home before. We don't take cash. She said,
what do you mean you don't? She says, don't you
have a credit card? He say, sure, I got a
credit card, but i'd liked I was going to give
her the twenty and just you know, be all said
with it, she gets a three dollars and fifty cent tip.
She said, well, why don't you take your credit card
over there and you can get some cash out of
our machine. So they hit an ATM there. I said,
(38:16):
what's the what's the benefit of that, and she said, well,
it's clean, and she gave me some line which I
thought was ridiculous. It's clean, it's clean, clean cash whatever. Yeah,
I'm telling you the truth, okay, So anyway, you put
this in your next book. So I took my credit
card out and paid the sixteen to fifty with the
(38:36):
credit card, and of course the tip thing was there.
I put zero. Then I took a couple of bucks
out of my pocket. I said, now do you accept cash? Oh? Yes, cleaner, dirty, cleaner, dirty, so.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
It really happened here. What really happened here is you know,
even though this all started in twy eighteen, twenty nineteen,
it really took off during and through COVID because I
think we all felt a lot of sympathy and really
relate to these people. A lot of people lost their jobs,
restaurants were closing down and so forth, and then you know,
people are starting to come back. You know, there were
(39:12):
worries about their health and so forth. So I think
all during that time and it was hard to staff
restaurants and places like that. So I think during this time,
you know, people wanted to be generous to them. But
it's been a while now and so people are kind
of like enough enough.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Well I'll tell you I'm kind of in that category
as well. Look, I appreciate it very much. Scott. You've
been a great guest. Let's keep in touch. Love to
have you on on a more regular basis. You brought
your a game tonight. Thank you much.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
All right, thank you, take care.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Thank you, Scott. Scott Barredelle branding and sumer trends expert
with the idea of growth. Thanks Scott. All right, I
think he's gone and we will be gone too, and
we're going to step aside, so we get your newscast
and we come back and the other side, we're going
to talk about developments on the white stadium controversy. We'll
have points of view on both sides, as well as
(40:00):
a quick interview with a reporter from the Boston Herald
coming back on nightside.
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBSY, Boston's radio home.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Thank you very much, Nicoll, hold you and yours and
everyone in the audience had a great Saint Patrick's Day weekend.
Nobody got in any sort of trouble with anyone. My
name's Dan Ray. Host of Nightside, Rob Brooks is in
the control room back at the Big Broadcast Control Room
in downtown Medford, and we are set for another week
(00:27):
of Nightside. I will be here god willing five nights
this week from eight until midnight, so we have wats
to cover between now and Friday night at midnight. We
we'll be talking at nine o'clock tonight about some late
developments on the eve of the White Stadium legal battle
with a representative of both points of view on this
(00:49):
interesting case. We'll talk about that, and we'll also talk
about some of the deportations in the back and forth
that's been going on between the White House and a
judge down in Washington, DC, and give you a chance
to weigh in. But first, we of course have the
eight o'clock hour and I have four interesting guests, none
more interesting than my good friend Jim Brett. Jim and
(01:10):
I are together just about every Saint Patrick's Day weekend.
We were at the Dorchester sixteenth annual Saint Patrick's Day
Brunch on Saturday from nine thirty to noon at the
Saint Teresa of Calcutta Parish Hall. Jim Brett, welcome back.
I think we had a pretty pretty good morning in Dorchester.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I think we did better than a pretty good morning,
and I thank you for your support and your advocacy
on behalf of the food Pantry. As you said, it's
sixteenth anniversary of putting this breakfast together, and I wouldn't
be able to do any of these sixteen dinners breakfast
without the support of my wife, Patty, and I am
(01:56):
grateful for her her advocacy. I'm making sure that the
breakfast is a stellar event and anyone that comes to
the event, and I always say good people come together
for a good cause, and that cause is the Food Pantry,
and it's needed now more than ever. Even in our
(02:18):
own neighborhoods in Boston, there are people who are looking
for an extra bag of groceries, and quite frankly, the
bags that we prepare and distribute to our neighbors and
our neighbors in need, they're about one hundred dollars worth
of goods, all nutritious items, and that makes a world
(02:40):
of difference to a lot of our neighbors. So you
don't have to go far to find a way to
help your neighbor in need. And this is what we
do at the Marianne Bread Food Pantry each and every week.
Not only do we give out the groceries and the
packaged goods and the kins of beans, but on occasion
(03:01):
people will come to us and say, we have toys
we want to distribute to you, to you to give
to the to the children in Rochester and rock spray
matter pants. There are people who come in with clothing,
brand new clothing, and say, why don't you distribute that
to some of your neighbors. And I'm telling you, when
you distribute a brand new jacket or a brand new sweater,
(03:22):
you and I may take for that granted it's a
new sweater. You give it to somebody in the neighborhood
and they they may say this the first time I've
ever had a new new sweater. So that's why I
always say, you don't have to go far to find
a way of making a difference. The marian Bread Food
pantry with extraordinary volunteers. I'm making a difference and helping
(03:43):
our neighbors cope, cope with day to day struggles that
they're having. And we do all five hundred families a month.
And you know, the volunteers are just that, they're volunteers.
But you know when anybody comes to that food pantry fundraiser,
I really believe they open their eyes at the same
time there their heart is touched by what that food
(04:06):
pantry represents in the neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, it's amazing, it's in a beautiful what used Well,
I guess what still is Saint Margaret's Church. I know
there's a little bit of it's named because of a
visit that I think Saint Teresa made there many years
ago called It's in the Saint Teresa of Calcutta Parish
Hall at church. Yes uh. And of course this was
(04:29):
started by the Brett family, a great family from Dorchester
in honor of your your late mom Mary and Brett,
which which honors her memory and helps so many people
over the course of a year. Is it five hundred
families that.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
That we do about five hundred families a month? We
do five hundred families a month, and.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, I assume that that cast can that group of
families can change over the course of the year. So
it's just not four hundred. Yeah, it may be ye,
many more than five hundred who at some point are help.
Maybe some are help there every month. Right, So once
tell us if people are in the neighborhood and they
need it, need some help, how do they get in
touch with you? The money's been raised, h you know what,
(05:16):
the hard work has been done for a year by
the Bread family. But boy, how do they get in touch?
They get it? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Who's Yeah, well it could be John Roni father John
Ronigan at the church itself. But you know it would
be wonderful is just to have volunteers. We always look
for volunteers. Boy, if they ever came by the Fool
pantry on any given Saturday morning from nine to eleven,
and we do have them on occasion to come and
(05:44):
to h and to observe what we do. I think
they get addicted and they said, I want to be here,
I want to help. I feel as though I'm making
a difference. So I would suggest anyone on the radio
listening audience, if you're interested in knowing more about the
food pintry.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Come by in.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Any Saturday morning between nine and eleven, and I think
you will be pretty as I say, I think anyone
that comes, they are their eyes will be opened and
the hard will be touched by what we do.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Well, you had a great turnout. You had most of
the politicians who represent the area. I know that Congressman
Lynch always makes a very generous donation and actually gives
people an opportunity to have a tour of the capital,
a legitimate tour of the capital where you're invited in
(06:37):
and they get I think, get to have lunch with him.
I know that's an item that a lot of people
are always very anxious to bid on. And I mean
there's some artwork there and there's a lot of sports tickets,
so it's a great it's a great event. People. How
could they You must have a website, I assume where
people can also get some more information, I hope, but.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
You know they could. I'd like to see them come
to the first of all, come to the church. But
you could call my office uh six one, seven, seven,
two three four oh oh nine, and I'll give them
more information on whether they want to contribute the time
or donate, donate some clothing or some toys, and the
(07:20):
and the future. But you can call that number and
just ask for me, and I'll be more than happy
to give them the information that will bring them, you know,
directly to the food pantry. But you know I use
this wonder.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Let me just let me repeat that number one more time, Jim, okay,
six six seven.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Seven to three seven two three four oh oh nine.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Okay, and Rob write that number down in case anyone
misses it, because it's tough to uh to write numbers.
But again, you seventeenth annual Saint Patrick's Brunch. What day
will it fall? And it's always on the Saturday of
Saint Patrick's Day weekend. I want to make plans to
be here.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I haven't looked at the caer, but it is the
Sat before the big Shindy in South Boston, their breakfast,
So it's always that weekend of the festivities.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
And self, I'll bet you, I'll bet it's going to
be I'll bet it's going to be the fourteenth, because
I think what happens is days get moved up. This
was not but so sometime in early March, and what
we should do next year Jim is, maybe talk about
it sometime in January as we're coming up to it
would be great, great to that would be great to
talk about what was accomplished. And a lot of money
(08:32):
was raised, and a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
A lot of money, a lot of nice people. Yeah,
I mean, the generosity was overwhelming. There are just no
words too, There were really no words adequate enough to
just express my deep appreciation. But I'll tell you a
wonderful example is that we had a gentleman who gave
us one hundred dollars for the last five years and
(08:55):
we always appreciated. This year became as a recipient and
asking for a bag of groceries, which tells me that
we're only we're only a few steps away ourselves from
being a donor to a recipient. So uh, it could
be a health issue in the family, termination of employment.
(09:18):
I mean, we don't judge, but it was remarkable how
it just so quickly it could turn that somebody is
now saying, look, when I was able to I gave.
Now I'm asking if you could give me in the
some assistance.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Much going from going from being a donor to a
to a beneficiary simple as simple as that right, Jim
Brett is always great to see you on Saturday. Thanks
for what you and brother Bill and Harry and your
sisters do in memory of.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
You and and my bride Patty. I don't want to
go as you know, she had a new balanced shoes on.
She was running all over the.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Breakfast.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Look I've learned over the year without Patty, it doesn't happen,
So trust me on that you want to.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Right, what ma'am?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Thanks Jimmy, talk soon.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
All right, thank you, You're very welcome.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Good night. All right, we get back. We're going to
talk about tales for the Trails if you're up in
Essex County. I think there's some exercise involved in the
next one. And then we're going to talk a little
bit later on with a book author called Law at
the Movies. I'm looking to be really interested in that.
And then we're going to talk with someone about the
fact that tipping tipping is getting out of control in
(10:39):
many respects. So those would be the three other topics
we'll talk about between now and nine. And we'll get
into the issue of the White Stadium lawsuit that's going on.
There's there's some very strong feelings on both sides of
this case, and we'll talk to people represented on both sides,
and then we'll talk about the deportations that went on
this weekend. And I think it's I think that's a
(11:02):
really interesting issue that we're going to get into pretty deeply.
After ten o'clock back on night Side. My name is
Dan Ray. No phone calls yet, but we'll get to
you right after the nine on that stay with us
back after this.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
night Side Studios. I'm WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Well Spring is right around the corner. Sat Patrick's Day.
Weekend is ending in a couple of hours, and for
me that is always the marker that winter is over
and spring is here. The Essex County Trail Association's tail
for the trails five K casual can Across coming up
on March twenty ninth. Talking with Martha Sanders. She is
(11:46):
the chair of the Board of Directors for the Essex
County Trail Association and this is called the can Across.
I'm thinking the first four letters there of C A
and I might have something to do with K nine
him Martha Savis.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Hi, I'm fine, Thank you, thanks so much for having
me on. Yes, you're correct, Candi. The candy part is
for canine. It's actually sort of a hybrid of canine
and cross country because this is a cross country run
with a person and a dog who are attached.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Really really, now, how many years have you? Is this
the first time? I've never heard of this one before.
You've probably have done it for twenty years that I've
just never.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Heard of it. It is fairly new. It's new to
this area. This is our third coming up a week
from Saturday, and so it's a fairly new event. We're
an old organization forty we've been in business for forty years,
and we do lots of trail events. This is fairly
new and it's the only race of its kind in Massachusetts.
(12:53):
I think there is another one now, I'm not sure
when it is in Medfield possibly, but it's more of
a dog walk and can across. A few choose to
do it, but we we expect people to, you know,
adhere to the rules that are very specific for Canton Cross.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I have never heard of this before. Okay, I have
never heard of anything like this before. When you think
about let's say a five K or a ten K.
Now five K is going to be about three point
one miles if I recall correct exactly. Okay, yeah, Now
are these trails wooded trails where there's you know tree,
(13:34):
you know trees, roots of trees or is this a
fairly flat course?
Speaker 5 (13:39):
First of all, well, this is one of our challenges
when we decided a few years ago that we wanted
to do this. We needed to find the right locations
for it, because there are two things you need. Well,
diverse terrain is always preferable, but you need to start
in a big open field because when you have fifty
sixty people and their dogs in a start line and
(14:04):
they need to get sorted out. So what happens is
we're up in West Newbury. We start in the outfield
of a ball field. We have a big, wide line
and then within a few minutes the field of runners
starts to narrow down. The fastest people are out in front,
and it gets because by the time they go through
the fields, they're going to be in the woods and
(14:26):
then it's single track for part of it, and their
hills their roots there. So it's it's it's somewhat challenging,
it's not terribly difficult, but the main challenge is getting
in sync with your dog to do it. Because you've
got a waste belt. You have a bungee cord, so
(14:48):
you have an elastic cord that's six to ten feet long,
and then it's attached to a dog with a running harness.
And a running harness is one where they it's clipped.
The contact point is to are there back in and
it's it's designed so that they can pull and it's
comfortable for them. So you're attached.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, let me ask you. I'm really fascinated. This is
this your group Tails for the Trails? Is there a
charity that benefits from this or is this really.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Or is this fantastically an.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Event that that has been put together which pays for itself.
I don't know if there are prices or not. I'm
probably asking more questions than I have a right to,
but I try to anticipate the questions that that people
would be it because I know there are people right
now who are listening. I've never heard of this and
want to participate. We will give your website at the
(15:43):
end of the interview. But this is not a benefit
for you know, homeless dogs or anything like that. This
is this is an event period, correct.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
It's an it benefits Essex County Trail Association. That's our organization,
and we protect and maintain hundreds of miles of trails
in Essex County, just in six towns. So we have
these events. We have trail runs and other events over
the course of the year to you know, boost awareness
of the trails, to engage with our trail users, and
(16:18):
also to raise money to pay for very expensive trail
maintenance and trail projects.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
So that's what we do, okay, okay, So there is
there is a purpose above and beyond just getting out
and running three point one miles with few other people
and your dog. So I get that. Okay, that's good.
So as I understand it, by the way, is the
prize bragging rights at the end? I see that you
have top three finishes in different divisions. What if the
(16:48):
prize is great, If it's just for bragging rights, that's
okay too.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
We do give up prizes, you know, there are no
trophies or anything like that. So this gift certificates and
sometimes it's gear. It's it's candycross gear and so it's both.
It's it's are there are.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
There a lot of let me, are there a lot
of people up in Essex County who get their exercise
and get there. I mean, I see a lot of
people walking dogs where I live, you know, on a
Sunday afternoon or Saturday morning, walking their dog. But I
don't now Again, maybe it's happening and I'm just not
familiar with the trails. Is this something that you folks
(17:28):
have developed here or is it something that become more
common around the state.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
So it's quite popular in northern Europe and it began
as a way to exercise sled dogs off season. So
you because you it's it's very similar to that. You know,
you're your dog is pulling, but the differences you're running.
But the people who do this a lot use voice
commands similar to what you would use with sled dog.
(17:56):
With sled dogs, you you have certain commands to go left,
to go ride or slow down, our speed up. So
it's it. But it hasn't really taken off here because
it is sort of I think people now.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Spend on night side. Come on, come on, now that
it's spend on night shide, are you going to be overwhelmed?
Give me the website. So if anybody by the way,
the event is on March twenty ninth. Yes, and that
is a Saturday or Sunday. I got to look at
my calendar here.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
It's a week from Saturday week for Saturday. It's a
Pipe Stave Hill in West Newbury Pipe Stave Hill Recreation Area.
It's on Route one thirteen. We have a dog rescue
coming with adoptable puppies to do a meet and greet.
It is definitely something that spectators can at least watch
(18:48):
the start and finish off because we are on this
We start on this ball field and it's pretty entertaining.
We had sixty people last year. We're on track to
have the same number number this here. All different types
of dogs, all different types and ages of people, and
it's really hilarious. The dogs in the beginning all start barking.
(19:10):
We actually had to get a megaphone for this event
because people couldn't hear our trail instructions because the dogs
all start barking and it's.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
We're getting a little tight on time here. So I've
probably used some of my question too many questions here,
But Martha, is there a website we can send people to.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Yes, it's ecta online dot org.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Ec let me spill. Ea do I do this professionally,
so help let me help you. Okay, ECTA, you go
right ahead. It's e C t A and what is
after that?
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Online? Yeah, line online dot org.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Perfect, and it's twenty five dollars for ECTA members, thirty
five for non members. ECTA online dot org. I wish
you the best of luck. It should be a lot
of fun for dog owners, and I hope everybody has
a very safe and healthy run. Tales for the trails.
This should be a lot of fun. Saturday, March twenty ninth, ECTA.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
On LinkedIn dot org.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Thank you very much. You're very welcome.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
We thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
We'll do it again. Thank you much. Talk to you soon.
Now we have the news at the bottom of the hour.
Let me remind you we're kind of moving pretty fast tonight.
My name is Dan Ray and the host of Nightside.
And of course this is an iHeartRadio station WBZ ten
thirty and your Am Dial, Boston's news radio station. But
also you can get the iHeart app for free. Download
(20:42):
the iHeart app and you could make WBZ your first preset.
It's like so simple, it's almost the same as in
your car or in your radio. At home. So we
are always going to be just a one finger touch
away from wherever you are in the world. You can
listen to us three hundred and sixty five days a year, uh,
twenty four to seven, wherever you are. So it's the
(21:04):
it's the iHeart app just downloaded. I think most people
know of what I speak. It's pretty simple. I'll be back.
We're going to talk with doctor Stanley Fish about lot
of the movies, and we also have one more segment
after that talking about tipping. Is tipping getting out of control?
I kind of think it is. We'll see what my
guest says. Coming back on night Side right after the
(21:24):
news at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Thank you very much, Nicole, as we move into our
third guest tonight, which I think is going to be interesting,
Dr Stanley Fish, Doctor Fish, how are you, sir? Welcome
to Nightside.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
Well I'm fine, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
You're very welcome. So you have a new book out.
You're a professor. You're a law professor at the Florida
International University.
Speaker 6 (21:56):
Well, uh, I have a war I have a new
appointment at New College Florida beginning this year. But I
was a law professor for a long time.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
That's okay. I'm a lawyer here in Boston, so it's
always nice to meet a law professor. The book that
you've written is Law at the Movies, turning legal doctrine
into art and understanding of law cinema and the intricate
interplay between the two. How did you ever come up
with this idea? I think it's a great idea.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
Two teaching. Most of my ideas come from teaching, and
I had the idea one time, about six years ago,
why not teach a course on the law and the movies,
in part because I wanted to attract students, and that
course did, in fact attract students.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Now I'm looking at the cover. A lot of the
movies that you that you have are movies that a
lot of us are familiar with. Twelve Angry Men, High Noon,
That All Judgment at Nuremberg, Inherit the Wind, the Crucible
Man for All Seasons, Anatomy of for Murder. You don't
(23:06):
have Reversal of Fortune on this list. I'm very disappointed
because I had a role in Reversal of Fortune.
Speaker 6 (23:12):
I didn't know that and Reversal of Fortune was one
of one of the movies that could have been on
the list because matters of legal doctrine are very much
discussed and elaborated in that film.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
As you know, Yes, that was the for those who
don't remember, it was the Clouds fun Bulau movie in
which Alan Dershowitz eventually uh did his appeal for him.
It's a great movie. And and I had a speaking role,
and I had my I m dB. Uh I'm listed
(23:44):
in the International Movie Database as a consequence of that.
So anyway, well tell us I envy you.
Speaker 6 (23:49):
I envy you.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
That Uh no, not not a problem at all. And uh,
you know there was really it was. It was a
lot of fun. And well, tell us give us an
example of a couple of the lessons that people will
learn from reading the book. Many people will have seen
(24:10):
the movies, and many of them maybe we'll go back
and rewatch the movies as well as a result of
being the book.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
What I'm interested in are movies that don't simply refer
to legal doctrine along the way, but grow out of
legal doctrine, so both the plot and the characters depend
on legal doctrine. One example might be the crucible, where
the issue is what kind of evidence is authoritative and
(24:43):
could be the basis of convicting someone, either evidence in
the usual run of law courts or evidence that comes
from supposedly spiritual witnessing. So that's one movie that's about evidence.
That another anatomy of a is I think a movie
about the craft of law. And what we watch when
(25:07):
we look at anatomy of a movie our lawyers telling
us how it is that they first choose to take
a client and then find a way of defending the client,
and then present the client's defense in court. So I'm
not interested in movies that have a law theme, like
(25:28):
To Kill a mocking Bird, which of course also occurs
in the courtroom. But that's a movie about race. My
law movies are about law and the way it works.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, it sounds fascinating. Has this book just come out?
By the way, it looks to.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
Me like a five months ago?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Okay, so this is a new book that what what's
what sort of law do you teach in school? You
a criminal, criminal justice, lawyer or constitution?
Speaker 6 (25:58):
Now I teach constitutional law. I have a juris student's
Chase book, and I also teach First Amendment law, and
I teach religion in the law. Those are my main topics.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Well, those are great subjects. Those subjects will never and
we deal with a lot of legal issues here on
Night Side. And when I worked as a television reporter
for CBS here in Boston, spent many years, about fifteen years,
trying to get four men out of prison who had
(26:32):
been wrongfully and intentionally incarcerated by a corrupt member of
the Federal Winter's Protection Program, actually the first member, the
first member Federal Witness Protection program, along with some corrupt
FBI agents. They did quite a job on putting some
people away who were not angels, but they had never
(26:55):
committed the crime for which they were tried and died
and tried and convicted. And it took us. I worked
with a lawyer who for many years had worked fruitlessly
on behalf of the I would say, the most innocent
of all the clients, who had no significant criminal record
at all, but he had borrowed some money from this
(27:16):
guy who eventually became the prototype for the Federwids Protection program.
And my last day on television, they were awarded one
hundred and one million dollars two of them who were
still alive, one is still alive, and two who died
in prison. Basically about a million dollars every year in
prison any of them spent. So the longer you're in,
the more money you got. They eventually got everything they
(27:38):
actually got with interest in all of that during the appeals,
all the one hundred and sixteen million dollars, And it
was Elena came last decision as Solicitor General not to
seek cert and that was about a week or so
before she was nominated in twenty ten to the US
Supreme Court by President Obama.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
As a native, as a native of Providence, Rhode Island,
I can readily believe that there is corruption in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yes, well, he of course think this corruption, this corruption everywhere, unfortunately,
but the corruption here was amongst FBI agents who had
badges and guns and used that authority to put innocent
people in prison. So how long did it take you
to write this book and how long did you settle
on the movies? Did you get like a whole big
(28:27):
list of movies or did you know right from the
beginning what movies you wanted to highlight?
Speaker 6 (28:33):
A couple of years to write the book, some of
the movies just in fact present themselves, because you have
to write about twelve angry men when you're doing a
book like this, And also Anatomy of a murder, and
I think also Judgment at Nuremberg, which plays out the
(28:53):
very old debate between natural law and man made law
in a way that very very powerful.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, having visited Nuremberg, I guess it was about seven
or eight years ago. It's amazing to look at that
building where the trials were held. I'm sure that you
probably had been there and realized what horrific history was
uh was made that that eventuated in the in the
trials and the convictions of so many of those German
(29:25):
German leaders. So the book, I assume you can get
it through Amazon, uh and uh at bookstores as well.
It's simply called Law at the Movies, Turning Legal Doctrine
into Art by Stanley Fish uh And I hope a
lot of our listeners, we have a lot of lawyers
who listen that they're gonna they're gonna get a copy
(29:46):
of this book and get it from Amazon or is
there a direct can they get it from your web?
Some some authors have a website where people can order
it from the website.
Speaker 6 (29:56):
I've never mastered the art of website, so I don't
have that.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
You should have someone do it for you, because what
can happen is it can help you because people love
to get books inscribed by authors, and some authors have
told me that that actually is interesting because people can
can order the book and get the author to inscribe it.
And I think some people feel a little closer to
(30:22):
the to the book, as they say, if you get
a chance to watch Reversal of Fortune, you'll see me
go by in about thirty seconds on the screen. Glenn
Close was spectacular. Jeremy Irons won the Oscar that year
for the Leader Male Actor, and we've not been able
(30:42):
to work. Friends of mine joke with me and they'll say,
you know, when are you going to do another movie?
And I said, well, you know, Glenn Close and Jeremy
Irons and I just keep reading scripts and we can't agree.
And that's a joke. So you understand. It was a
It was a very It was it was a look
break for me to have my one and only appearance
(31:03):
on the big screen.
Speaker 6 (31:05):
Well I'm waiting. I'm waiting for my big closs up.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Don't worry it'll happens to all of us, Professor Fish,
Doctor Fish really enjoyed our conversation, looking forward to reading it,
and we will. We will talk again.
Speaker 6 (31:20):
I hope it's so Thank you so much. I have
a new book on film walk that I'm writing now.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Well, when that comes out, give us a call and
we'll get you back on.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
Okay, it's a deal.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Sounds great, okay, Professor doctor Stanley Fish, thank you very much.
When we get back here on Night Side, we will
wrap it up. We're going to talk about tipping. I
think I think a lot of people have opinions on that,
but the opinion that will count tonight will be the
opinion of my guest who join us right after this
quick break, Scott Barradell, Branding and Consuming consumer trends expert,
(31:57):
about whether or not tipping is getting out of hand
or out of control. Back on nights Side right after this.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
All right, I think all of us have noticed that
the way in which people are asked to tip has
changed a lot in the last few years. With us
is Scott baradel He's a branding and consumer trends expert
with the Idea Grove and love to get your take
on all of this. I guess ninety percent of Americans
think tipping's a little getting out of hand. As it were,
(32:34):
good after good evening, Scott.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
How are you good? How are you good?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Great? Tell us about your your findings.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
Well, this is a survey by a company called wallet
Hub with those personal finance app and yeah, come at
night with that night.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
I'm familiar with wallet hub. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Yeah, Well of the people in the survey are not
happy with how tipping has expanded to where it's basically
everywhere you go out from from uh you know, the
coffee chop to self serve kiosks, I mean, take your pick.
You can't escape it.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, and it's it's I think that. Look when people
go to a restaurant and there's a waiter, who's a
waitress coming by and filling your water, taking your order,
you know, sending something back that might not be done
to your to your liking and all of that. Yeah,
there's there's a service there. But when you simply order
a cup of coffee and donut, even though the people
(33:30):
behind the country, you know that they're not being paid
a lot of money. Every once in a while, I
shouldn't say every once in a while, probably most of
the time I do leave a tip, but there's still
something about it that it's it's very different from what
you would leave. You're feeling for a waiter or a waitress,
uh or or someone who gives you a haircut, and
(33:52):
as someone who just basically, you know, hands you a
donut and you go down and you pick up your
coffee at the end of the counter. But the golden
goose is going to be killed here, I think, if
I'm not mistaken, what's your thought on that.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
Well, I think you're absolutely right. I mean to go
back to the history of tipping the United States that
started in the last half of the nineteenth century. It
used to be something wealthier people did for service workers,
you know, porters on train cars and so forth. And
now it's kind of gravitated to where it became mainly
for wait staff at restaurants and you know, concierge at
the hotel, people that did your hair. And it used
(34:30):
to be for you know, a reward for a really
good service. Now, of course, what it's come become in
more recent years is kind of obligatory, Like you're a
jerk if you don't give someone the twenty percent tip,
even if they didn't give you great service. I mean,
because we all know that they account for the expected
tips when they give these waiters and waitresses, for example,
(34:51):
such wages, and so we all know that and we've
come to expect Oh well, I guess we just have
to leave that tip. Well, what happened in twenty eighteen is,
you know, and some of these gaps came around and
all of a sudden, you're paying through your through an
iPad at a lot of places, and they could pre
set it to put these tip options up there so
(35:11):
you could without saying a word saying, you know, maybe
these places that might have had a tip chart that
might have gotten a few bucks during the day. They're
sticking this in your face. The person who's who's surfing
is saying, you know, here's a decision for you to make,
and it's like, you want to leave a twenty percent tip,
twenty five or other, and then if you put the other,
you know, you kind of go to the other screen
where they're seeing a punch a bunch of buttons and
(35:32):
they're like oh, jerk, you didn't leave me a tip.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah no, So let me ask you this, how did
that come to be? I mean, I've seen it obviously,
and it's even for example, you go into a you know,
you're on vacation and you go into a fish market
and you buy you know, you know, some shrimp and
you buy this, and you're having a cookout for some people,
(35:57):
and you could easily spend one hundred bucks, but there's
really no service. It's like, you know, putting some shrimp
in a bag, take and the and the tip would
be you know, ten percent, that's ten bucks. Twenty percent
is twenty bucks. That's a huge tip for like a
thirty second interaction.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
No kidding. Well, I'll tell you. I took my two
boys to get a haircut at one of these you
know haircut places that are just for kids. And yeah,
and I the hair the person cuts their hair. Uh,
does a fine job. You cut two boys hair, right,
And I go to the counter and she says, here's
the options. It said twenty five, thirty or fifty percent.
(36:40):
Those are my choices. So if I didn't want to
leave at least a twenty five percent tip on these
two haircuts, I feel like I'm cheap. That's what they're
wanting to do. But how it all started, you know,
it really all started with just an easier way to
pay by credit card. But then it was so easy,
it was so easy to add this tip option. You know,
it's a business. So what do you got to lose?
(37:01):
You know, you're thinking, oh, maybe my you know, I
can I don't have to pay my people as much
because they'll be tipped. They'll get some portion of their
compensation in tips that they didn't get before this all.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Really even though, yeah, here's a dirty little secret. The
durty little secret is that waiters and waitresses would much
prefer pictures of dead presidents. Then they would tip, you know,
on the end of a credit card bill. And sometimes
what I'll do is I'll pay with the credit card
and then tip with cash. And I think that they
appreciate that more because it's not showing up anywhere. I
(37:33):
had a situation, oh maybe a month ago, went into
kind of one of these fancy schmancy ice cream places.
My wife and I took our grandson in there, and
like two ice cream cones and they weren't even they
were small scoops in a dish or something like, you know,
sixteen fifty. So I went and heard a woman twenty
and she said, oh, we don't take cash. I've never
(37:55):
had that home before. We don't take cash. She said,
what do you mean you don't? She says, don't you
have a credit card? He say, sure, I got a
credit card, but i'd liked I was going to give
her the twenty and just you know, be all said
with it, she gets a three dollars and fifty cent tip.
She said, well, why don't you take your credit card
over there and you can get some cash out of
our machine. So they hit an ATM there. I said,
(38:16):
what's the what's the benefit of that, and she said, well,
it's clean, and she gave me some line which I
thought was ridiculous. It's clean, it's clean, clean cash whatever. Yeah,
I'm telling you the truth, okay, So anyway, you put
this in your next book. So I took my credit
card out and paid the sixteen to fifty with the
(38:36):
credit card, and of course the tip thing was there.
I put zero. Then I took a couple of bucks
out of my pocket. I said, now do you accept cash? Oh? Yes, cleaner, dirty, cleaner, dirty, so.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
It really happened here. What really happened here is you know,
even though this all started in twy eighteen, twenty nineteen,
it really took off during and through COVID because I
think we all felt a lot of sympathy and really
relate to these people. A lot of people lost their jobs,
restaurants were closing down and so forth, and then you know,
people are starting to come back. You know, there were
(39:12):
worries about their health and so forth. So I think
all during that time and it was hard to staff
restaurants and places like that. So I think during this time,
you know, people wanted to be generous to them. But
it's been a while now and so people are kind
of like enough enough.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Well I'll tell you I'm kind of in that category
as well. Look, I appreciate it very much. Scott. You've
been a great guest. Let's keep in touch. Love to
have you on on a more regular basis. You brought
your a game tonight. Thank you much.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
All right, thank you, take care.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Thank you, Scott. Scott Barredelle branding and sumer trends expert
with the idea of growth. Thanks Scott. All right, I
think he's gone and we will be gone too, and
we're going to step aside, so we get your newscast
and we come back and the other side, we're going
to talk about developments on the white stadium controversy. We'll
have points of view on both sides, as well as
(40:00):
a quick interview with a reporter from the Boston Herald
coming back on nightside.
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