March 27, 2025 • 41 mins
The “Yemen Signal Chat” story of Trump Administration top security officials accidentally including a journalist from The Atlantic into their chat group, has been dominating the news cycle but also raising a lot of questions and concerns over how this mishap occurred. Tech experts say that you can’t get much better than Signal’s message encryption services to protect the privacy of your correspondence however, when discussing such classified information, you should really use a high security device that would make it nearly impossible to include a member of the public.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's a nice size. I'm going easy Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All right, let's keep rolling here. We're talking about and
we learned a lot last hour. In my opinion from
Hiawatha Bray at the Boston Globe, I spent a lot
of time today investigating this. I started off with a
fairly minimal knowledge of this signal, so called signal APP.
(00:26):
I understand it much better now, and I suspect some
of you, having listened to Hiawatha Bray, understand that must
much better. The consequence of our conversation with Hiawatha is
that there is indeed a better app, a military type
app that could be used, from a company called Greenhill Software.
(00:47):
I bet you that maybe we will hear a little
bit more about Greenhill Software in the coming days. I
don't think that Donald Trump is going to fire anyone
as a result of this, but it was obviously a mistake.
And there were also were some answers which were less
than straightforward from members of the president's team in front
(01:13):
of congressional hearings this week. And there were also some
statements that the Defense Secretary made which I think we're
less than forthcoming. Do I think anyone has purchaed themselves.
I don't think you got to that point. I think
the language was pretty careful, very careful, which is always
(01:33):
a sign that someone is not being as forthcoming as
they should be. The only lines I have opened right
now is two at six, one, seven, nine, three, one,
ten thirty. That will get you right through. Let's keep
going here. I'm going to go next to Joeanne is
in Waltham, Joanne, next to Nights.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I welcome, hy Dan. How you doing.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'm doing fine tonight so far, joe in. But yeah,
last night wild, Yeah it was. I was. I thought
wrestled three or something, but that's okay.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Well I was gonna call last night, but you were busy,
So tonight's good. I called early. Uh yeah, I wrote
stuff to Yeah, Audrey was good, but I disagree. No
one should be fired. Okay, you have a.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Right to that point of view. How'd you like Hiawatha Bray?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah I just caught the tail end. Yeah yeah, I
caught the tail end. But when I heard you were
talking about this, I said, oh good, and Patty she
was very good. She's sweet, she's sweet.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So you don't you don't think there you think this
is now much ado but nothing I yeah, okay, well
I disagree with you retrospect. Should have they been on
a more secure app in your opinion?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Well, of course, of course, yeah, somebody did screw up.
I kind of agreed with you. Whoever set up the
call his AID or you know, maybe let that one go.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
But yeah, you know, I'm sure that Walls will be
somewhat protective of the AID. I just think it was sloppy.
Uh and thank good thank goodness that that maybe they
learned a lesson in a situation where there was no
(03:38):
harm done. If a plane was shot down, that would
been a whole different situation. So yeah, I mean I
don't want to I've said no harm, no foul, that's true.
But I do think that they need to get their
act together because next next time there could be some
(03:59):
harm and they would be a foul.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Where I disagree with you. You said, you know, they
should admit they made a mistake. Has any Democrat ever
said they made a mistake in the past thirty years
that you can think of?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, I suspect some have somewhere, but I don't think
the Republican Party, if they wanted to distinguish themselves from
the loyal opposition has to follow in the way that
you do it.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Levels Yeah, well, maybe there's nothing.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
There's nothing more disarming in my experience, in my life
when you goof up and you make a mistake and
it doesn't have to be a mistake. Is not doing
something intentionally. A mistake is making a mistake. Your motives
were correct, but you know you're meant to do something,
you didn't do it well, or you rushed or whatever. Yeah,
(05:01):
and we're all human. What's wrong with saying I find
it's the most disarming thing in the world. I mean,
when my wife is mad at me over something, if
I I guess, say, you know what, I messed up. Sorry,
I got the wrong thing at the store. When we
go back, I'll go back and change it, and invariable
to say no, get it next time. Okay, thank you
very much, We're done.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
You diffuse the situation often. And I think that hag
Seth is a strong willed guy, similar in personality to
President Trump. And when I saw him, I think he
was in Hawaii, was saying there was no battle plans,
there was no this, there was no that, there were
no roots. He probably was technically correct, but the fact
(05:45):
of the matter is there was a lot of information
which has come out which never should have come out.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, I know. Yeah, that's And has any Democrat ever
been fired for doing something wrong? All Well is still
in there sleeping with a Chinese spy for four years?
He's still there.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yes he is, Yes he is. But again, the voters
in his district have had a chance to churn him out.
So that would be the argument there. Look, I think
this is the old meat. What about is an argument?
And what about the other guys. Let's hope well that
they all can take their game up as opposed to
taking their game down. Right, And whoever's in charge is
(06:30):
in charge of protecting you and me. And I don't
care if it's a Democrat president or a Republican president.
I want them to do the best job possible. Period.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
All right, we're in agreement.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
And just the last thing, you know, the Warren and
all the Democrats, they're so worried about our security. They well,
they weren't worried when they had the borders wide open.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
No, And I think that's that is not a what
about is and that that's an accurate observation with which
I am happy to join you.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Okay, very good, thanks you talk Okay, take care, Thank
you byma. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Six months seven two five four to ten thirty one
line there, six months seven nine three one ten thirty
one line there. This is a story that has been
a dominant story all week. It's not going away. This
might be the last night that we're going to talk
about it. Tomorrow night, as a matter of fact, we
are going to talk about how you can lower energy
(07:30):
prices here in Massachusetts, how you yourself can lower your
energy prices at nine o'clock, and we're also going to
talk at ten o'clock tomorrow night with a guest about
naps and sleep and which is better for you. Are
NAP's good or do naps during the day prevent you
from getting a good night's sleep, And will of course
have the twentieth hour tomorrow night as well. So this
(07:52):
is probably the last time this week we will talk
about the signal app gait. If you will, we add
the word gate to everything. Uh So, if you want
to weigh in on this one, get get to the
phone right now and we'll be back on nightside with
more phone calls right after this on a Thursday night
edition of Nightside, and the Red Sox started off with
(08:13):
the right foot today they won. They won, They're undefeated.
Coming back right after the break.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
It's night Side with Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Back to the phones we go. Let's go next to
Neil in Saugus. Neil, you were next on Nightside. Welcome.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
How you doing Dan.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I'm doing fine. I hope you're doing well too. The
right ahead.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I'm all right. I have heard about all this, and
of course I'm not sure. I've heard a couple of things,
and I don't know if there's a way to fact
check these things. But I heard that there's a US
special end voice. Steve Wickoff was in Russia, Yes he was,
and then he and they said I heard two different things.
(08:58):
One they said he didn't have his phone in Russia,
and then I heard a different thing saying he did
have his phone, but he didn't use the signal apps.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
So you know, I think what I heard was a
little different was that he did not have the phone
on he was in I think he was in meetings
at the Kremlin with with Putin, and that the phone
was turned off. Now again, I'm not enough of an
expert to know. First of all, I don't think that
(09:31):
the Russians could have hacked from from the people I
talked to today that this this app called Signal cannot
be hacked the way it works. And again I'll try
to explain it as simply as possible. Is if I
have it on my phone and you have it on
(09:53):
your phone, and we're friends, you're in my You're in
my my phone list, I can basically uh contact you
because only because you're in my phone list. Okay, I
can't call someone who's not in my phone list. You
(10:15):
have to be a member of Signal number one both
of you, and you have to be in the other
person's phone list if you if you get my.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Drift, okay, yeah, and I well, let me let me.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Finish, Let me finish. If I make a mistake, please
help me. So I want to have either a zoom
call with you, or I want to have a phone
call with you, or I want to set up a
text chain with you. So all of a sudden, I say, Neil,
you on you. I send you a text Neil, are
(10:52):
you available? You send me a text back that says, yeah,
what's up? Now you know what you wrote? To me. Uh,
and when it comes to me, I see what you
wrote to me. But if anybody, anybody intercepted or attempted
to hack into that communication, they would only see an
(11:14):
encrypted message. So the only people who know what is
what is written there is you wrote and what I
read or what I wrote and when you read. Okay.
So even if Wicked had his phone on, if he
had had his phone on and somehow Putin grabbed the
(11:35):
phone from him, theoretically he got look at Wickens phone
and say, oh, you're talking Yemen, but he never had
the phone.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Well, well, a couple of other things. So number one,
the US Department of Defense had put out something. They're
saying that signal is not a secure app and not
to use it for any top secret kind of stuff
that's been in the news. But the other thing is
(12:02):
is the hoodie Uh you know the rebels there, Yeah,
that we went after and we should have, which was good.
They are funded by Iran and Russia, so there would
be an interest if you know. It's just I'm just.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I've never heard them. But let me say this, I've
never heard that they're funded by Russia. I have heard
that they are funded by Iran, and I did see definitely, Yeah, definitely,
and I did see an advisory that was circulated in
the Defense Department. I think it was October of twenty
three that cautioned against using non secure app non secure apps.
(12:41):
They specifically, well, I don't think that they specifically said that.
I think you're incorrecting that signal. For I spoke with
someone today who's been on Signal for about ten years
and they said, look, this is a great app. The
mistake that was made, obviously was that someone went into
(13:02):
Waltz's contacts, the National Security Tracer and added this journalist.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Yeah, yeah, by mistake.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
However, that's why you don't have aids to people setting
this stuff up. It should have been set up by
someone from a communications expert from the Defense Department, in
my opinion, and then if something happens, which is a problem,
it's not UH an official in the government, it's it's
(13:35):
it's it's the com team with the Defense Department. I
just look, this actually can turn into a plus because
maybe out of this the Trump administration and subsequent administrations,
and there will be subsequent administrations will say we're not
using Signal, We're not never using you know. Can I
(13:58):
tell you a story that I've never told in the
air before. I think you'll find interesting. Okay. Do you
remember when cell phones first became popular.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
In use use, Yes, and it was huge early nineties.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Okay, not everybody had a cell phone, but there were
a lot of people. Shakers and movies got cell phones first. Okay.
So when I worked at Channel four, we had a
radio system in our trucks which could pick up cell
phone signals mm hmm, and occasionally you would hear something
(14:34):
like this. You would hear some guy calling his wife
at six thirty at night, and the conversation was like
a sweetheart, I hate to do this too, but I'm working.
We're working late tonight and it's going to be a
rough night. But you know, I'll be home by midnight.
Don't worry. Just yeah, I'll see in the morning.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
As soon as he hangs up, you ding ding ding
ding ding ding ding ding ding the girlfriend and we're
sitting in the truck listening to it. Know, Hi, honey,
how are you You're going to be available tonight? We're
going to do dinner right okay, you know. But more importantly,
there were a few times that we heard identifiable voices.
(15:19):
I'm not going to tell you who saying stupid things
that they shouldn't be saying. So yeah, so exactly all
I'm just saying is back in the day. Now, hopefully
people have been smart enough about that and say to
themselves that when they have a conversation, they there's some
privacy to it. Same thing here. I think that these
(15:41):
guys were playing a little foot loose. They were probably
we're happy, they were thrilled that the thing was going
going well, and yeah, and they talked about, as Hiawatha
Bray said last hour, about we're doing this for Europe
and Europe doesn't appreciate it. We don't like Europe, Papa.
You know, that's going to cause some diplomatic problem. There's
some real problems out of this, and hopefully it won't
(16:03):
happen again.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
But then I have one other I think, and this
may need to be fact checks, So I'm just throwing
out things that I have heard. So I heard that
the Department of Defense spent fourteen billion dollars to build
some kind of secret messaging thing that that's where this
kind of stuff that's supposed to be used, and that
(16:26):
discussed that is totally secure. Well, and it was a
lot of taxpayer money. Fourteen billion.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Okay, well, I think what they might be talking about there,
and I don't know, Okay, I've never heard that figure.
But they have these secure what they're called skiffs in
something like that Washington.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
D C.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
And they're rooms where people can go into and they
supposedly are impregnable. You know, there's so many hackers out there.
I don't know that anything's impregnable, but to be honest
with you, but this.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Is supposed to be like a sort of a like
an app, but it's only for top secret military.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard. I've heard of these.
They're called skiffs and uh it's uh Rob, it's an acronym,
and Rob gave me last night what the acronym is for.
They're no, they're known called they're called skiffs. And what
happens is when Congress is going to members of Congress
or members of certain committees or cheer people higher ups
(17:26):
in Congress are going to get a debrief on something,
they go to this these rooms. They have to leave
their cell phones outside the rooms. Okay, yeah, yeah, and
in some cases they can go inside and read documents
or in some cases they go inside and they're debriefed,
but they talk about going into the skiff.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
All right, fair enough, Okay, I think this' I think
this what I got from this, and maybe this is
a different thing, but I got this sense or thought
I heard may need to be fact checked or whatever,
that that the and I State's military, the Parliment Defense
spend something or fourteen billion said that.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
You might be right. I can't.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I think it's like a certain I think it's like
an app that's only for you know, Okay, people try.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I'll try to find that out. Neal. You've made the
point and I and I wish I could help you
in that one. I'll try to find it out.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
And I think what's gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Maybe one of our other callers will know it. That's
the beauty of nightside. Someone else can call say yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Exactly, okay, thank you. What happened is they're gonnael I.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Got I gotta grab another call here before the news.
We've gone ten minutes, Neil. Okay, so all right, great,
thank you very much. Let me go to Bob and Worcester.
Bob want to get you in here before the news.
Speaker 6 (18:43):
Bob, this will be my last call about Signal. Okay,
what they call a safety number. It's similar to a password,
but it acts differently. Each party can see this number
on the bottom of the screen and mains content. If
it starts flashing, somebody is listening to your conversation. I
(19:07):
don't know of any other app that has this.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Well, that is news to me. I haven't heard that,
but it wouldn't surprise me because I believe that there
are ways in which your device when it downloads the
app called Signal. Uh, it is a very secure device.
And I've talked to people today to had a long
conversation with someone who's been on Signal for about ten years,
(19:33):
and they give me They gave me a debrief this
afternoon and they said, it's a really secure app. Now
you're so, could someone theoretically get in? Yeah, I guess
in this case, I think it was a mistake. I
don't think one of the Trump These are the most
loyal Trump people in the world, the Secretary of Defense,
the Secretary of State, all of the individuals they were
(19:57):
involved in this. I don't think any one of them
is int it'll be really great. Let's have Jeff Goldberg
from Atlantic Magazine. I mean, Goldberg is a longtime critic
of the Trump not only the Trump the first administration,
with this one as well. I think it I think
it was a mistake and and it's it's a cautionary tale.
And to some extent, we were lucky as a nation.
(20:21):
There was no plane, no no information got to the
hoodies ahead of time. They got hit, and they got
hit hard.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
And the company that owns uh say that owns signal,
I think the stocks have gone way up.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I would bet you that you're probably right on that.
And there's probably a lot of people who are deciding
they're going to get an encrypted It's it's just an
app you put in your phone. So if again, if
some guy who's uh, you know, who's who's messing around
his wife, he might turn around and say I better
get that. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (21:03):
And it's so easy to use to just put your
number in and that's it.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
So you have it right right, I've been.
Speaker 6 (21:11):
Using it for a couple of years.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Now. Why are you using are you don't don't give
me too muchmation. Are you using it because you have
it's a business purpose, or are you using it because
you just don't want people to monitor or audit your conversations.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
No, I use it as part of a dating site.
Really yeah, so so want we can have a conversation
about online dating.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Well, I suspect that that's the wild wild West. I
guess I've never been on an online dating site. So
you want to make sure that the person who you're
talking to is actually the person you're talking to, and
you don't want is that? Is that why you're using
it that way?
Speaker 6 (22:01):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Okay, that's fair, that's fair. I mean you hear the
horror stories about the online dating sites. Someone sends you
a picture and when they show up, they bear no
resemblance of the picture at all.
Speaker 6 (22:15):
Okay, you know we can do a three hour show
about online dating.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Well, you know what, Bob, at some point, have Rob.
Rob will give you my direct line. You give me
a call, and maybe we'll do that some Friday night.
Speaker 6 (22:31):
Okay, Friday night I go out dancing.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
How about but we'll do it a Thursday night in
advance of a weekend. Okay we could? We could? You
do be av and Rob will give you my direct line.
You can have it and call me if you're so inclined. Okay,
I'm not looking for your number. You give you give
Rob will give you mind fair enough. Thanks Bob, all right,
(22:57):
thank you very much, good night. All right, you're not
gonna cut off on Rob. He's gonna Rob will talk
to Bob and they'll be all said. Who knows again,
if there's anything that you hear on this program that
you think is incorrect, factually, I always welcome corrections of
what I say and corrections of what on my caller say. Okay,
(23:18):
because I am not omnipotent. Okay, I got I'm not infallible. Okay,
I make mistakes, but my audience can help me and
can help my show. We'll take a quick break. Come
on right back on night Side. Uh the well, we
got one line which just dropped off six one, seven, two, five, four,
(23:39):
ten thirty and one line in six one, seven, nine thirty.
Come on right back on night Side.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WA Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 7 (23:54):
Her.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Let's move it a little bit more quickly. Pick up
the pace here, Bob and Rain and Bob you were
next on Nightside.
Speaker 8 (23:58):
Go right ahead, Bob, Hey Dan, how's it going a
little smaller?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Sailing? Tonight than last night.
Speaker 8 (24:05):
But go right ahead, Okay, I'd like to say that
you know, a lot of us here in you know,
the Boston area and so on. We a lot of
US work in secured facilities and uh places where classified
information is uh you know, pro processed, and even if
(24:30):
we're not privy to it, which I never was, we're
aware that it's around and there's certain protocols set up
to you know, if you come across it accidentally, which
could happen. I mean, you could be invited to a
meeting that you shouldn't be invited to just because you
have a similar or you know, a common last name,
(24:53):
or you know, the secure documentation that are in you know,
identifiable level hopes that if you see, you're supposed to
turn in and just dissolved different. I mean, we're trained
on what to do with this, right So in my
in my opinion, this guy Goldberg and and and I'll
go further to say that any you know, true American
(25:17):
or you know, someone that's really concerned about the security
of our nation would never dare you know, look at
that information and or if you somehow you were on
a meeting, you would you know, get yourself off that
meeting right away and then you know, notify your supervisor
(25:38):
that you inadvertently were on something you shouldn't have been on.
And and uh, you know, the whole thing is to
you know, keep keep our country secure. And in my opinion,
this guy Goldberg, I mean, obviously it sounds like he
has uh you know, he has no use for Trump
and he's ready to you know, sabotage him any chance
(26:02):
he could or whatever. But that being said, he's putting
people at risk and other people at risk by I mean,
he should have done the right thing and gone to
whoever he somehow got invited to this meeting bar and
said they, I shouldn't have been on this thing. You
guys got to be careful. But instead he blew it
all up. And now our enemies, no, you know, the
(26:25):
site is out there, and and our.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Enemies probably knew it, knew it before. I mean, I
don't I think that they would have figured that out.
But again, you had a security clearance. You wanted to
protect that security clearance. Jeffrey Goldberg, he's a journalist, so
he was functioning with a different set of priorities. I
(26:49):
guess would be the way to describe it. I don't
want to. He did not leak anything on substance until
the Trump administration said oh no, there were no there
were no battle plans or anything like that, And the
language gets kind of, uh, kind of sloppy. There is
you know, what exactly is a battle plan? What it?
What exactly is you know, an attack plan? That sort
(27:10):
of thing. So I just, you know, I can't understand
your feeling. I get it. You you probably with your
training would have said, hey, I'm not supposed to be
on here, I'm going to report it. Who's he going
to report it to his his publisher?
Speaker 8 (27:23):
Well, I mean he just should have. He should have
just maybe I mean his published is probably in the
same bit as he's in. But yeah, he he uh,
but I mean, you know, just for just for the
good of our country, he shouldn't have.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
I mean, he's turned up.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I got your point. I got your point.
Speaker 8 (27:42):
Yeah, thank you, And.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Most people would have probably a lot of people would
agree with you. Thank you, Bob. I appreciate your call.
Going to keep rolling here, we're going next to who
we got we got Margie in uh in New York. Marjorie,
You're next to night Saga right ahead.
Speaker 9 (27:56):
Yes, fine, I know we have mentioned your age, but
I don't know. Oh do you span before cell phones?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Of course they do. Yeah, was I was? I born
after cell phones became a VII.
Speaker 9 (28:09):
Did you have cell phones in your youth?
Speaker 2 (28:12):
In my youth?
Speaker 6 (28:14):
Yeah, no, no, no, no, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I wasn't really introduced. The first cell phones I ever
used were the They were big, bulky cell phones that
we would be given when I was working in television
in the nineteen eighties and if we were going to Washington,
we would get us. It was it almost looked a
military cell phone. It was a a in a bag
that you'd hang over your shoulder, and it was the
(28:39):
phone was like the size of your shoe. It looked
like it was certainly more cumbersome than what we have today. Yeah,
So that those were the first cell phones that were
commercially available, and the average citizen didn't have those cell phones.
The average person didn't get cell phones until sometime in
(28:59):
the early late eighties early nineties. We got them a little.
We had what were called cell phones, but they will
we thought of them as portable phones. So that's that's
my explanation on that one.
Speaker 9 (29:09):
Man't you Okay. What I want to take you back
to is because I live in that era. I gave
up my cell phone. I don't have a laptop. I
have a regular desktop computer, and I'm trying to get
rid of all the angst now. I just want for
those who don't know, before cell phones, we would take
(29:31):
vacations in Europe. We had a small child, We'd hire
a babysitter and we'd go for three weeks to Europe.
We never had the desire or a chance to call
back in three weeks and check if anyone was alive
or dead. You came home, you took your Kodak slide
(29:55):
show development than everyone to see it.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah, no, I go, I totally get it. But but
that's that's what the way it was back then. Yeah.
So it's a different world today, Margie. I would agree.
Speaker 9 (30:09):
You're exactly right. And you know what, it was a
much more peaceful and happier world.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
All right, great, I don't dis don't necessarily disagree with you, Margie. Thanks.
I always enjoy your calls. Be well, okay, thanks, thank you,
great night, good night. All right, going to take a
very quick break here now you know what I'm not
I'm going to plow through and going to get Ron
and Newton. We got a line open at six one seven,
two five four ten thirty and one at six one
seven nine three one ten thirty. I am not going
(30:39):
to make Ron wait, hey, Ron, welcome back. How are
you hi?
Speaker 5 (30:43):
Dan?
Speaker 10 (30:43):
Thank you? Thanks a lot for this topic. I have
a couple of questions, and there some sort of an
analogy that I think maybe applied. Okay, but I'm I'm wondering.
We use we use encrypted apps on our disaster response
to communicate with one another. But I'm wondering if this
(31:06):
lends itself to what I did for quite a few
years with medical errors, that is root cause analysis and
in essence, if we had an independent specialty group like
our team from MIT, do a root cause analysis, look
at you know, and I used to do them in
(31:28):
chronological order. I would look at what was the root
cause in this case it's communications link error, and I
would look at secondary cause in this case double triple
check not validated. But I'm not so sure I agree
with the no file no harm in our analysis of errors,
(31:56):
would categorize it into number one. Yes it could. I
out of the department, but didn't touch the patient. Number two, Yeah,
got out, touched the patient but only caused temporary harm.
Number three, it touched the patient, caused permanent harm, and
then finally a sentinel event where the patient died. And
(32:19):
we would look at at this as Number one, was
it a system flaw. If it was, you propose an
intervention to a rapid cycle test and see see if
it works and then scale it up. Number two, if
it was a short cut that the individual took, such
(32:39):
as you know, cutting in and pasting a certain amount
of information from a previous visit, then that's a short
cut that the person may have been taken for a while,
and you have to correct their practice and then finally
knowingly and willingly doing something and that would result in punishment.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Okay, it's not. Also, it's a very methodical process.
Speaker 10 (33:09):
You explained, I like that, so, and we had to
constantly communicate that information to the Board of Internal Medicine
in Boston, and so they would look at for example,
you know, a wrong site surgery left risks, right risk.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
How does that occur?
Speaker 10 (33:29):
Or alternatively, uh, you know it was an unintended error
where they scalpel just nicked an adjacent tissue. It was
certainly uh unintended, but nevertheless it did occur, so a
root cause has to be done. They would send that
off to the committee at the Board of Internal Medicine
(33:49):
and they would review it and then to say, yeah,
you did a good job on that, but we want
you to look at this in addition, so it creates
a continuous process improvement. It doesn't hold anybody to blame necessarily.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
All right, Demo, how that applies here, Ron may be
a little bit more difficult because it's probably yours is
probably a cleaner and well thought out procedure. Ron, I
took you before the news, but I've gone four minutes,
so I got to let you go. Thank you much.
Interesting and interesting analysis, very interesting. Thank you so much.
Have a great one back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on you BZ
Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Okay, we're going to try to get everyone in. It
won't be easy. Let me go next to Danielle in Worcester. Danielle,
you're next on Nightside.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
Go right ahead, Hey Dan, Hi, daniel two quick things. No,
I think we used it a while back when I
was in corporate America still, and I think that, you know,
with all the publicity with the Karen Reid trial and
you know now with Trump and everything, I think that well,
(35:01):
not so much with this Trump story, but with the
Karen retrial. I think that it's kind of a you know,
a real eye opener to see that if you're in
corporate America and you have a personal cell phone, and
you're using your personal cell phone for any work related business,
your phone is now subject to discovery. And I'm sorry,
(35:21):
my phone is like my pocketbook. Is there anything in
there that is he illegal? No, but it's like private.
I mean, you know, before I had my double mess eectomy,
I took a before picture, Okay, I took an after picture.
My sister recently had a biopsy rest of biopsy, and
she sent me a picture of the side of her chest.
Those aren't things that you want people to see. They're
(35:42):
not bad, but they're private, you know. So I think
the Signal app kind of gives you, you know, especially
if you if you're a work person, if you're in
corporate America, you're liking sales and you use your phone
to contact clients. Now you're in God forbid, there's some
kind of illegal thing that goes on and you get
to point you're they can sub they can sub pena
on your phone.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
And so there's.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
A practical use for this.
Speaker 5 (36:07):
Right, So it's not always about I think people automatically think, oh,
he's shady, is cheating. You know, she must be hiding
something from her husband, And really it's not so much
that it's and and another I know you to go.
The other thing that I thought that was really interesting
I learned about iPhones. There are a lot of people
don't know. But if you look at your ear piece
where you put your phone to your ear, right beside
that little hole over the ear is is an indicator
(36:29):
light that comes on and it's orange if your microphone
is activated, and it's green if your camera and or
microphone are activated. And where that's helpful is a lot
of times you're using an app. You have a go
on like Facebook, and you talk about us or something,
and then two days later there's an ug you know,
commercial or something. So if you look down at your phone,
(36:52):
you can see if there's an orange indicator light saying
that your microphone is active when you're using that app
and therefore could be just recording a conversation you're having
with the person beside you, and you can disable that
in in your app settings.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Son.
Speaker 5 (37:06):
I thought that that was an interesting thing I learned.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
At all great place, Danielle. You always bring your a game.
Thank you much, Thank you much. Twenty seventh Okay, can't wait.
Thanks Thanks Tom and Dorchester. Tom. I'm gonna get you
in here, Betty, go, buddy, go right.
Speaker 11 (37:22):
Ahead, right Dan, it's trying to be fast. That was
this whole situation, this whole debacle. I found the culpra
of the debacle. His name is Matt Walls. He works
the Trump He's a warhawk. He worked for Dick Cheney
and uh and he goes Goldman with Goldbert the reporter.
(37:44):
He knows him. I think he put him on the conversation.
Now I think he has to go. I think his
name is Matt Walls.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
The way he's he is a very he's former congressman. Yeah, okay,
fair enough. You're a Trump, you're a Trump support. It
will see what happens if if they bounce him. I
want you to call me back because that's going to
be very interesting.
Speaker 11 (38:06):
All right, Thank you, Dan, Thanks.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Dog, appreciate it. Laurie, good night. Let me go to
Joe and Boston Joy, you gonna wrap it for us?
Go ahead, Joe.
Speaker 7 (38:15):
He and remember Bill Belichick when he tried to reach
Brian Daboll, he reached out to Brian Flores.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely, yes, Oh no, that's a
good one.
Speaker 7 (38:34):
However, in this case, there is something that concerns me.
I think I heard through sources and there was one
of those low level eights that put the phone list together,
because yeah, I mean, who has the number of this guy?
Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Well, it was on Apparently Goldberg's number was on Mike
Wallt's phone. And Waltz a person who well, he could be,
he could be he could have him as not as
a source. But you know, I have people on my
phone who might be friends. I have people on my phone.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
Who might be.
Speaker 7 (39:16):
Yeah, I really don't think he's a farewell of fans,
but I mean.
Speaker 10 (39:21):
Experience though.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah, And he apparently gave his phone to set it
up to an AID. Now I don't know if the
aid was a twenty one year old. In turn, if
the AID is a is a trusted uh, Waltz I
think was a member of Congress. I thinks a veteran
of the military.
Speaker 7 (39:35):
Yeah, they say it was a two year old aide
that did that. You know so well, you know it
is what it is, No harm, no foul.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
All right enough, Joe Amott, I'm flat on the time.
It's always so great to you guy that I love you.
Speaker 7 (39:51):
I appreciate you right back, right back at you, Joe.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
You know that. Okay, thank you, my friend. Say ahad
everybody for me. Okay, we're done for the night. I
got word tonight. I'm going to mention it tomorrow. One
of our most loyal callers has passed away. Some of
you remember Paul from Dorchester. He's a gentleman who taught
in the Boston public schools and worked as a basketball coach.
I hadn't heard from in a while. So maybe tonight
(40:16):
before you go to bed, say a prayer for Paul.
Paul Mahoney of Dorchester and Norwood, who's a great loyal
listener of Nightside, always brought us a game and passed
away today. I'll mention it tomorrow night as well. I
want to thank that the person who passed that information
on to me. My name is Dan Ray. Thank you
very much. Rob Brooks, thank you very much, Marita, I'll lend.
(40:38):
There's always all dogs, all cats, all pets go to heaven.
That's why Pal Charlie Ray is who passed fifteen years ago.
That's where all your pets are who passed. They loved
you and you love them. I do believe you'll see
them again. Hope to see again tomorrow night on night
Side at eight o'clock. Have a great Friday everyone. I'm
going to see you on Facebook Nice Side with Dan
Ray in about two minutes. Join us there. I love
(40:59):
to say hello, have a great Friday. I'll talk to
you to morrow.
It's a nice size. I'm going easy Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All right, let's keep rolling here. We're talking about and
we learned a lot last hour. In my opinion from
Hiawatha Bray at the Boston Globe, I spent a lot
of time today investigating this. I started off with a
fairly minimal knowledge of this signal, so called signal APP.
(00:26):
I understand it much better now, and I suspect some
of you, having listened to Hiawatha Bray, understand that must
much better. The consequence of our conversation with Hiawatha is
that there is indeed a better app, a military type
app that could be used, from a company called Greenhill Software.
(00:47):
I bet you that maybe we will hear a little
bit more about Greenhill Software in the coming days. I
don't think that Donald Trump is going to fire anyone
as a result of this, but it was obviously a mistake.
And there were also were some answers which were less
than straightforward from members of the president's team in front
(01:13):
of congressional hearings this week. And there were also some
statements that the Defense Secretary made which I think we're
less than forthcoming. Do I think anyone has purchaed themselves.
I don't think you got to that point. I think
the language was pretty careful, very careful, which is always
(01:33):
a sign that someone is not being as forthcoming as
they should be. The only lines I have opened right
now is two at six, one, seven, nine, three, one,
ten thirty. That will get you right through. Let's keep
going here. I'm going to go next to Joeanne is
in Waltham, Joanne, next to Nights.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I welcome, hy Dan. How you doing.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'm doing fine tonight so far, joe in. But yeah,
last night wild, Yeah it was. I was. I thought
wrestled three or something, but that's okay.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Well I was gonna call last night, but you were busy,
So tonight's good. I called early. Uh yeah, I wrote
stuff to Yeah, Audrey was good, but I disagree. No
one should be fired. Okay, you have a.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Right to that point of view. How'd you like Hiawatha Bray?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah I just caught the tail end. Yeah yeah, I
caught the tail end. But when I heard you were
talking about this, I said, oh good, and Patty she
was very good. She's sweet, she's sweet.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So you don't you don't think there you think this
is now much ado but nothing I yeah, okay, well
I disagree with you retrospect. Should have they been on
a more secure app in your opinion?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Well, of course, of course, yeah, somebody did screw up.
I kind of agreed with you. Whoever set up the
call his AID or you know, maybe let that one go.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
But yeah, you know, I'm sure that Walls will be
somewhat protective of the AID. I just think it was sloppy.
Uh and thank good thank goodness that that maybe they
learned a lesson in a situation where there was no
(03:38):
harm done. If a plane was shot down, that would
been a whole different situation. So yeah, I mean I
don't want to I've said no harm, no foul, that's true.
But I do think that they need to get their
act together because next next time there could be some
(03:59):
harm and they would be a foul.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Where I disagree with you. You said, you know, they
should admit they made a mistake. Has any Democrat ever
said they made a mistake in the past thirty years
that you can think of?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, I suspect some have somewhere, but I don't think
the Republican Party, if they wanted to distinguish themselves from
the loyal opposition has to follow in the way that
you do it.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Levels Yeah, well, maybe there's nothing.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
There's nothing more disarming in my experience, in my life
when you goof up and you make a mistake and
it doesn't have to be a mistake. Is not doing
something intentionally. A mistake is making a mistake. Your motives
were correct, but you know you're meant to do something,
you didn't do it well, or you rushed or whatever. Yeah,
(05:01):
and we're all human. What's wrong with saying I find
it's the most disarming thing in the world. I mean,
when my wife is mad at me over something, if
I I guess, say, you know what, I messed up. Sorry,
I got the wrong thing at the store. When we
go back, I'll go back and change it, and invariable
to say no, get it next time. Okay, thank you
very much, We're done.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
You diffuse the situation often. And I think that hag
Seth is a strong willed guy, similar in personality to
President Trump. And when I saw him, I think he
was in Hawaii, was saying there was no battle plans,
there was no this, there was no that, there were
no roots. He probably was technically correct, but the fact
(05:45):
of the matter is there was a lot of information
which has come out which never should have come out.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, I know. Yeah, that's And has any Democrat ever
been fired for doing something wrong? All Well is still
in there sleeping with a Chinese spy for four years?
He's still there.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yes he is, Yes he is. But again, the voters
in his district have had a chance to churn him out.
So that would be the argument there. Look, I think
this is the old meat. What about is an argument?
And what about the other guys. Let's hope well that
they all can take their game up as opposed to
taking their game down. Right, And whoever's in charge is
(06:30):
in charge of protecting you and me. And I don't
care if it's a Democrat president or a Republican president.
I want them to do the best job possible. Period.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
All right, we're in agreement.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
And just the last thing, you know, the Warren and
all the Democrats, they're so worried about our security. They well,
they weren't worried when they had the borders wide open.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
No, And I think that's that is not a what
about is and that that's an accurate observation with which
I am happy to join you.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Okay, very good, thanks you talk Okay, take care, Thank
you byma. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Six months seven two five four to ten thirty one
line there, six months seven nine three one ten thirty
one line there. This is a story that has been
a dominant story all week. It's not going away. This
might be the last night that we're going to talk
about it. Tomorrow night, as a matter of fact, we
are going to talk about how you can lower energy
(07:30):
prices here in Massachusetts, how you yourself can lower your
energy prices at nine o'clock, and we're also going to
talk at ten o'clock tomorrow night with a guest about
naps and sleep and which is better for you. Are
NAP's good or do naps during the day prevent you
from getting a good night's sleep, And will of course
have the twentieth hour tomorrow night as well. So this
(07:52):
is probably the last time this week we will talk
about the signal app gait. If you will, we add
the word gate to everything. Uh So, if you want
to weigh in on this one, get get to the
phone right now and we'll be back on nightside with
more phone calls right after this on a Thursday night
edition of Nightside, and the Red Sox started off with
(08:13):
the right foot today they won. They won, They're undefeated.
Coming back right after the break.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
It's night Side with Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Back to the phones we go. Let's go next to
Neil in Saugus. Neil, you were next on Nightside. Welcome.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
How you doing Dan.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I'm doing fine. I hope you're doing well too. The
right ahead.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I'm all right. I have heard about all this, and
of course I'm not sure. I've heard a couple of things,
and I don't know if there's a way to fact
check these things. But I heard that there's a US
special end voice. Steve Wickoff was in Russia, Yes he was,
and then he and they said I heard two different things.
(08:58):
One they said he didn't have his phone in Russia,
and then I heard a different thing saying he did
have his phone, but he didn't use the signal apps.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
So you know, I think what I heard was a
little different was that he did not have the phone
on he was in I think he was in meetings
at the Kremlin with with Putin, and that the phone
was turned off. Now again, I'm not enough of an
expert to know. First of all, I don't think that
(09:31):
the Russians could have hacked from from the people I
talked to today that this this app called Signal cannot
be hacked the way it works. And again I'll try
to explain it as simply as possible. Is if I
have it on my phone and you have it on
(09:53):
your phone, and we're friends, you're in my You're in
my my phone list, I can basically uh contact you
because only because you're in my phone list. Okay, I
can't call someone who's not in my phone list. You
(10:15):
have to be a member of Signal number one both
of you, and you have to be in the other
person's phone list if you if you get my.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
Drift, okay, yeah, and I well, let me let me.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Finish, Let me finish. If I make a mistake, please
help me. So I want to have either a zoom
call with you, or I want to have a phone
call with you, or I want to set up a
text chain with you. So all of a sudden, I say, Neil,
you on you. I send you a text Neil, are
(10:52):
you available? You send me a text back that says, yeah,
what's up? Now you know what you wrote? To me. Uh,
and when it comes to me, I see what you
wrote to me. But if anybody, anybody intercepted or attempted
to hack into that communication, they would only see an
(11:14):
encrypted message. So the only people who know what is
what is written there is you wrote and what I
read or what I wrote and when you read. Okay.
So even if Wicked had his phone on, if he
had had his phone on and somehow Putin grabbed the
(11:35):
phone from him, theoretically he got look at Wickens phone
and say, oh, you're talking Yemen, but he never had
the phone.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Well, well, a couple of other things. So number one,
the US Department of Defense had put out something. They're
saying that signal is not a secure app and not
to use it for any top secret kind of stuff
that's been in the news. But the other thing is
(12:02):
is the hoodie Uh you know the rebels there, Yeah,
that we went after and we should have, which was good.
They are funded by Iran and Russia, so there would
be an interest if you know. It's just I'm just.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I've never heard them. But let me say this, I've
never heard that they're funded by Russia. I have heard
that they are funded by Iran, and I did see definitely, Yeah, definitely,
and I did see an advisory that was circulated in
the Defense Department. I think it was October of twenty
three that cautioned against using non secure app non secure apps.
(12:41):
They specifically, well, I don't think that they specifically said that.
I think you're incorrecting that signal. For I spoke with
someone today who's been on Signal for about ten years
and they said, look, this is a great app. The
mistake that was made, obviously was that someone went into
(13:02):
Waltz's contacts, the National Security Tracer and added this journalist.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Yeah, yeah, by mistake.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
However, that's why you don't have aids to people setting
this stuff up. It should have been set up by
someone from a communications expert from the Defense Department, in
my opinion, and then if something happens, which is a problem,
it's not UH an official in the government, it's it's
(13:35):
it's it's the com team with the Defense Department. I
just look, this actually can turn into a plus because
maybe out of this the Trump administration and subsequent administrations,
and there will be subsequent administrations will say we're not
using Signal, We're not never using you know. Can I
(13:58):
tell you a story that I've never told in the
air before. I think you'll find interesting. Okay. Do you
remember when cell phones first became popular.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
In use use, Yes, and it was huge early nineties.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Okay, not everybody had a cell phone, but there were
a lot of people. Shakers and movies got cell phones first. Okay.
So when I worked at Channel four, we had a
radio system in our trucks which could pick up cell
phone signals mm hmm, and occasionally you would hear something
(14:34):
like this. You would hear some guy calling his wife
at six thirty at night, and the conversation was like
a sweetheart, I hate to do this too, but I'm working.
We're working late tonight and it's going to be a
rough night. But you know, I'll be home by midnight.
Don't worry. Just yeah, I'll see in the morning.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
As soon as he hangs up, you ding ding ding
ding ding ding ding ding ding the girlfriend and we're
sitting in the truck listening to it. Know, Hi, honey,
how are you You're going to be available tonight? We're
going to do dinner right okay, you know. But more importantly,
there were a few times that we heard identifiable voices.
(15:19):
I'm not going to tell you who saying stupid things
that they shouldn't be saying. So yeah, so exactly all
I'm just saying is back in the day. Now, hopefully
people have been smart enough about that and say to
themselves that when they have a conversation, they there's some
privacy to it. Same thing here. I think that these
(15:41):
guys were playing a little foot loose. They were probably
we're happy, they were thrilled that the thing was going
going well, and yeah, and they talked about, as Hiawatha
Bray said last hour, about we're doing this for Europe
and Europe doesn't appreciate it. We don't like Europe, Papa.
You know, that's going to cause some diplomatic problem. There's
some real problems out of this, and hopefully it won't
(16:03):
happen again.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
But then I have one other I think, and this
may need to be fact checks, So I'm just throwing
out things that I have heard. So I heard that
the Department of Defense spent fourteen billion dollars to build
some kind of secret messaging thing that that's where this
kind of stuff that's supposed to be used, and that
(16:26):
discussed that is totally secure. Well, and it was a
lot of taxpayer money. Fourteen billion.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Okay, well, I think what they might be talking about there,
and I don't know, Okay, I've never heard that figure.
But they have these secure what they're called skiffs in
something like that Washington.
Speaker 5 (16:47):
D C.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
And they're rooms where people can go into and they
supposedly are impregnable. You know, there's so many hackers out there.
I don't know that anything's impregnable, but to be honest
with you, but this.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Is supposed to be like a sort of a like
an app, but it's only for top secret military.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard. I've heard of these.
They're called skiffs and uh it's uh Rob, it's an acronym,
and Rob gave me last night what the acronym is for.
They're no, they're known called they're called skiffs. And what
happens is when Congress is going to members of Congress
or members of certain committees or cheer people higher ups
(17:26):
in Congress are going to get a debrief on something,
they go to this these rooms. They have to leave
their cell phones outside the rooms. Okay, yeah, yeah, and
in some cases they can go inside and read documents
or in some cases they go inside and they're debriefed,
but they talk about going into the skiff.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
All right, fair enough, Okay, I think this' I think
this what I got from this, and maybe this is
a different thing, but I got this sense or thought
I heard may need to be fact checked or whatever,
that that the and I State's military, the Parliment Defense
spend something or fourteen billion said that.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
You might be right. I can't.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I think it's like a certain I think it's like
an app that's only for you know, Okay, people try.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I'll try to find that out. Neal. You've made the
point and I and I wish I could help you
in that one. I'll try to find it out.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
And I think what's gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Maybe one of our other callers will know it. That's
the beauty of nightside. Someone else can call say yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Exactly, okay, thank you. What happened is they're gonnael I.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Got I gotta grab another call here before the news.
We've gone ten minutes, Neil. Okay, so all right, great,
thank you very much. Let me go to Bob and Worcester.
Bob want to get you in here before the news.
Speaker 6 (18:43):
Bob, this will be my last call about Signal. Okay,
what they call a safety number. It's similar to a password,
but it acts differently. Each party can see this number
on the bottom of the screen and mains content. If
it starts flashing, somebody is listening to your conversation. I
(19:07):
don't know of any other app that has this.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Well, that is news to me. I haven't heard that,
but it wouldn't surprise me because I believe that there
are ways in which your device when it downloads the
app called Signal. Uh, it is a very secure device.
And I've talked to people today to had a long
conversation with someone who's been on Signal for about ten years,
(19:33):
and they give me They gave me a debrief this
afternoon and they said, it's a really secure app. Now
you're so, could someone theoretically get in? Yeah, I guess
in this case, I think it was a mistake. I
don't think one of the Trump These are the most
loyal Trump people in the world, the Secretary of Defense,
the Secretary of State, all of the individuals they were
(19:57):
involved in this. I don't think any one of them
is int it'll be really great. Let's have Jeff Goldberg
from Atlantic Magazine. I mean, Goldberg is a longtime critic
of the Trump not only the Trump the first administration,
with this one as well. I think it I think
it was a mistake and and it's it's a cautionary tale.
And to some extent, we were lucky as a nation.
(20:21):
There was no plane, no no information got to the
hoodies ahead of time. They got hit, and they got
hit hard.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
And the company that owns uh say that owns signal,
I think the stocks have gone way up.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I would bet you that you're probably right on that.
And there's probably a lot of people who are deciding
they're going to get an encrypted It's it's just an
app you put in your phone. So if again, if
some guy who's uh, you know, who's who's messing around
his wife, he might turn around and say I better
get that. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (21:03):
And it's so easy to use to just put your
number in and that's it.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
So you have it right right, I've been.
Speaker 6 (21:11):
Using it for a couple of years.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Now. Why are you using are you don't don't give
me too muchmation. Are you using it because you have
it's a business purpose, or are you using it because
you just don't want people to monitor or audit your conversations.
Speaker 6 (21:28):
No, I use it as part of a dating site.
Really yeah, so so want we can have a conversation
about online dating.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Well, I suspect that that's the wild wild West. I
guess I've never been on an online dating site. So
you want to make sure that the person who you're
talking to is actually the person you're talking to, and
you don't want is that? Is that why you're using
it that way?
Speaker 6 (22:01):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Okay, that's fair, that's fair. I mean you hear the
horror stories about the online dating sites. Someone sends you
a picture and when they show up, they bear no
resemblance of the picture at all.
Speaker 6 (22:15):
Okay, you know we can do a three hour show
about online dating.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Well, you know what, Bob, at some point, have Rob.
Rob will give you my direct line. You give me
a call, and maybe we'll do that some Friday night.
Speaker 6 (22:31):
Okay, Friday night I go out dancing.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
How about but we'll do it a Thursday night in
advance of a weekend. Okay we could? We could? You
do be av and Rob will give you my direct line.
You can have it and call me if you're so inclined. Okay,
I'm not looking for your number. You give you give
Rob will give you mind fair enough. Thanks Bob, all right,
(22:57):
thank you very much, good night. All right, you're not
gonna cut off on Rob. He's gonna Rob will talk
to Bob and they'll be all said. Who knows again,
if there's anything that you hear on this program that
you think is incorrect, factually, I always welcome corrections of
what I say and corrections of what on my caller say. Okay,
(23:18):
because I am not omnipotent. Okay, I got I'm not infallible. Okay,
I make mistakes, but my audience can help me and
can help my show. We'll take a quick break. Come
on right back on night Side. Uh the well, we
got one line which just dropped off six one, seven, two, five, four,
(23:39):
ten thirty and one line in six one, seven, nine thirty.
Come on right back on night Side.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WA Boston's
news radio.
Speaker 7 (23:54):
Her.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Let's move it a little bit more quickly. Pick up
the pace here, Bob and Rain and Bob you were
next on Nightside.
Speaker 8 (23:58):
Go right ahead, Bob, Hey Dan, how's it going a
little smaller?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Sailing? Tonight than last night.
Speaker 8 (24:05):
But go right ahead, Okay, I'd like to say that
you know, a lot of us here in you know,
the Boston area and so on. We a lot of
US work in secured facilities and uh places where classified
information is uh you know, pro processed, and even if
(24:30):
we're not privy to it, which I never was, we're
aware that it's around and there's certain protocols set up
to you know, if you come across it accidentally, which
could happen. I mean, you could be invited to a
meeting that you shouldn't be invited to just because you
have a similar or you know, a common last name,
(24:53):
or you know, the secure documentation that are in you know,
identifiable level hopes that if you see, you're supposed to
turn in and just dissolved different. I mean, we're trained
on what to do with this, right So in my
in my opinion, this guy Goldberg and and and I'll
go further to say that any you know, true American
(25:17):
or you know, someone that's really concerned about the security
of our nation would never dare you know, look at
that information and or if you somehow you were on
a meeting, you would you know, get yourself off that
meeting right away and then you know, notify your supervisor
(25:38):
that you inadvertently were on something you shouldn't have been on.
And and uh, you know, the whole thing is to
you know, keep keep our country secure. And in my opinion,
this guy Goldberg, I mean, obviously it sounds like he
has uh you know, he has no use for Trump
and he's ready to you know, sabotage him any chance
(26:02):
he could or whatever. But that being said, he's putting
people at risk and other people at risk by I mean,
he should have done the right thing and gone to
whoever he somehow got invited to this meeting bar and
said they, I shouldn't have been on this thing. You
guys got to be careful. But instead he blew it
all up. And now our enemies, no, you know, the
(26:25):
site is out there, and and our.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Enemies probably knew it, knew it before. I mean, I
don't I think that they would have figured that out.
But again, you had a security clearance. You wanted to
protect that security clearance. Jeffrey Goldberg, he's a journalist, so
he was functioning with a different set of priorities. I
(26:49):
guess would be the way to describe it. I don't
want to. He did not leak anything on substance until
the Trump administration said oh no, there were no there
were no battle plans or anything like that, And the
language gets kind of, uh, kind of sloppy. There is
you know, what exactly is a battle plan? What it?
What exactly is you know, an attack plan? That sort
(27:10):
of thing. So I just, you know, I can't understand
your feeling. I get it. You you probably with your
training would have said, hey, I'm not supposed to be
on here, I'm going to report it. Who's he going
to report it to his his publisher?
Speaker 8 (27:23):
Well, I mean he just should have. He should have
just maybe I mean his published is probably in the
same bit as he's in. But yeah, he he uh,
but I mean, you know, just for just for the
good of our country, he shouldn't have.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
I mean, he's turned up.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I got your point. I got your point.
Speaker 8 (27:42):
Yeah, thank you, And.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Most people would have probably a lot of people would
agree with you. Thank you, Bob. I appreciate your call.
Going to keep rolling here, we're going next to who
we got we got Margie in uh in New York. Marjorie,
You're next to night Saga right ahead.
Speaker 9 (27:56):
Yes, fine, I know we have mentioned your age, but
I don't know. Oh do you span before cell phones?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Of course they do. Yeah, was I was? I born
after cell phones became a VII.
Speaker 9 (28:09):
Did you have cell phones in your youth?
Speaker 2 (28:12):
In my youth?
Speaker 6 (28:14):
Yeah, no, no, no, no, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I wasn't really introduced. The first cell phones I ever
used were the They were big, bulky cell phones that
we would be given when I was working in television
in the nineteen eighties and if we were going to Washington,
we would get us. It was it almost looked a
military cell phone. It was a a in a bag
that you'd hang over your shoulder, and it was the
(28:39):
phone was like the size of your shoe. It looked
like it was certainly more cumbersome than what we have today. Yeah,
So that those were the first cell phones that were
commercially available, and the average citizen didn't have those cell phones.
The average person didn't get cell phones until sometime in
(28:59):
the early late eighties early nineties. We got them a little.
We had what were called cell phones, but they will
we thought of them as portable phones. So that's that's
my explanation on that one.
Speaker 9 (29:09):
Man't you Okay. What I want to take you back
to is because I live in that era. I gave
up my cell phone. I don't have a laptop. I
have a regular desktop computer, and I'm trying to get
rid of all the angst now. I just want for
those who don't know, before cell phones, we would take
(29:31):
vacations in Europe. We had a small child, We'd hire
a babysitter and we'd go for three weeks to Europe.
We never had the desire or a chance to call
back in three weeks and check if anyone was alive
or dead. You came home, you took your Kodak slide
(29:55):
show development than everyone to see it.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah, no, I go, I totally get it. But but
that's that's what the way it was back then. Yeah.
So it's a different world today, Margie. I would agree.
Speaker 9 (30:09):
You're exactly right. And you know what, it was a
much more peaceful and happier world.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
All right, great, I don't dis don't necessarily disagree with you, Margie. Thanks.
I always enjoy your calls. Be well, okay, thanks, thank you,
great night, good night. All right, going to take a
very quick break here now you know what I'm not
I'm going to plow through and going to get Ron
and Newton. We got a line open at six one seven,
two five four ten thirty and one at six one
seven nine three one ten thirty. I am not going
(30:39):
to make Ron wait, hey, Ron, welcome back. How are
you hi?
Speaker 5 (30:43):
Dan?
Speaker 10 (30:43):
Thank you? Thanks a lot for this topic. I have
a couple of questions, and there some sort of an
analogy that I think maybe applied. Okay, but I'm I'm wondering.
We use we use encrypted apps on our disaster response
to communicate with one another. But I'm wondering if this
(31:06):
lends itself to what I did for quite a few
years with medical errors, that is root cause analysis and
in essence, if we had an independent specialty group like
our team from MIT, do a root cause analysis, look
at you know, and I used to do them in
(31:28):
chronological order. I would look at what was the root
cause in this case it's communications link error, and I
would look at secondary cause in this case double triple
check not validated. But I'm not so sure I agree
with the no file no harm in our analysis of errors,
(31:56):
would categorize it into number one. Yes it could. I
out of the department, but didn't touch the patient. Number two, Yeah,
got out, touched the patient but only caused temporary harm.
Number three, it touched the patient, caused permanent harm, and
then finally a sentinel event where the patient died. And
(32:19):
we would look at at this as Number one, was
it a system flaw. If it was, you propose an
intervention to a rapid cycle test and see see if
it works and then scale it up. Number two, if
it was a short cut that the individual took, such
(32:39):
as you know, cutting in and pasting a certain amount
of information from a previous visit, then that's a short
cut that the person may have been taken for a while,
and you have to correct their practice and then finally
knowingly and willingly doing something and that would result in punishment.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Okay, it's not. Also, it's a very methodical process.
Speaker 10 (33:09):
You explained, I like that, so, and we had to
constantly communicate that information to the Board of Internal Medicine
in Boston, and so they would look at for example,
you know, a wrong site surgery left risks, right risk.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
How does that occur?
Speaker 10 (33:29):
Or alternatively, uh, you know it was an unintended error
where they scalpel just nicked an adjacent tissue. It was
certainly uh unintended, but nevertheless it did occur, so a
root cause has to be done. They would send that
off to the committee at the Board of Internal Medicine
(33:49):
and they would review it and then to say, yeah,
you did a good job on that, but we want
you to look at this in addition, so it creates
a continuous process improvement. It doesn't hold anybody to blame necessarily.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
All right, Demo, how that applies here, Ron may be
a little bit more difficult because it's probably yours is
probably a cleaner and well thought out procedure. Ron, I
took you before the news, but I've gone four minutes,
so I got to let you go. Thank you much.
Interesting and interesting analysis, very interesting. Thank you so much.
Have a great one back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on you BZ
Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Okay, we're going to try to get everyone in. It
won't be easy. Let me go next to Danielle in Worcester. Danielle,
you're next on Nightside.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
Go right ahead, Hey Dan, Hi, daniel two quick things. No,
I think we used it a while back when I
was in corporate America still, and I think that, you know,
with all the publicity with the Karen Reid trial and
you know now with Trump and everything, I think that well,
(35:01):
not so much with this Trump story, but with the
Karen retrial. I think that it's kind of a you know,
a real eye opener to see that if you're in
corporate America and you have a personal cell phone, and
you're using your personal cell phone for any work related business,
your phone is now subject to discovery. And I'm sorry,
(35:21):
my phone is like my pocketbook. Is there anything in
there that is he illegal? No, but it's like private.
I mean, you know, before I had my double mess eectomy,
I took a before picture, Okay, I took an after picture.
My sister recently had a biopsy rest of biopsy, and
she sent me a picture of the side of her chest.
Those aren't things that you want people to see. They're
(35:42):
not bad, but they're private, you know. So I think
the Signal app kind of gives you, you know, especially
if you if you're a work person, if you're in
corporate America, you're liking sales and you use your phone
to contact clients. Now you're in God forbid, there's some
kind of illegal thing that goes on and you get
to point you're they can sub they can sub pena
on your phone.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
And so there's.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
A practical use for this.
Speaker 5 (36:07):
Right, So it's not always about I think people automatically think, oh,
he's shady, is cheating. You know, she must be hiding
something from her husband, And really it's not so much
that it's and and another I know you to go.
The other thing that I thought that was really interesting
I learned about iPhones. There are a lot of people
don't know. But if you look at your ear piece
where you put your phone to your ear, right beside
that little hole over the ear is is an indicator
(36:29):
light that comes on and it's orange if your microphone
is activated, and it's green if your camera and or
microphone are activated. And where that's helpful is a lot
of times you're using an app. You have a go
on like Facebook, and you talk about us or something,
and then two days later there's an ug you know,
commercial or something. So if you look down at your phone,
(36:52):
you can see if there's an orange indicator light saying
that your microphone is active when you're using that app
and therefore could be just recording a conversation you're having
with the person beside you, and you can disable that
in in your app settings.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Son.
Speaker 5 (37:06):
I thought that that was an interesting thing I learned.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
At all great place, Danielle. You always bring your a game.
Thank you much, Thank you much. Twenty seventh Okay, can't wait.
Thanks Thanks Tom and Dorchester. Tom. I'm gonna get you
in here, Betty, go, buddy, go right.
Speaker 11 (37:22):
Ahead, right Dan, it's trying to be fast. That was
this whole situation, this whole debacle. I found the culpra
of the debacle. His name is Matt Walls. He works
the Trump He's a warhawk. He worked for Dick Cheney
and uh and he goes Goldman with Goldbert the reporter.
(37:44):
He knows him. I think he put him on the conversation.
Now I think he has to go. I think his
name is Matt Walls.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
The way he's he is a very he's former congressman. Yeah, okay,
fair enough. You're a Trump, you're a Trump support. It
will see what happens if if they bounce him. I
want you to call me back because that's going to
be very interesting.
Speaker 11 (38:06):
All right, Thank you, Dan, Thanks.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Dog, appreciate it. Laurie, good night. Let me go to
Joe and Boston Joy, you gonna wrap it for us?
Go ahead, Joe.
Speaker 7 (38:15):
He and remember Bill Belichick when he tried to reach
Brian Daboll, he reached out to Brian Flores.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely, yes, Oh no, that's a
good one.
Speaker 7 (38:34):
However, in this case, there is something that concerns me.
I think I heard through sources and there was one
of those low level eights that put the phone list together,
because yeah, I mean, who has the number of this guy?
Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Well, it was on Apparently Goldberg's number was on Mike
Wallt's phone. And Waltz a person who well, he could be,
he could be he could have him as not as
a source. But you know, I have people on my
phone who might be friends. I have people on my phone.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
Who might be.
Speaker 7 (39:16):
Yeah, I really don't think he's a farewell of fans,
but I mean.
Speaker 10 (39:21):
Experience though.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah, And he apparently gave his phone to set it
up to an AID. Now I don't know if the
aid was a twenty one year old. In turn, if
the AID is a is a trusted uh, Waltz I
think was a member of Congress. I thinks a veteran
of the military.
Speaker 7 (39:35):
Yeah, they say it was a two year old aide
that did that. You know so well, you know it
is what it is, No harm, no foul.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
All right enough, Joe Amott, I'm flat on the time.
It's always so great to you guy that I love you.
Speaker 7 (39:51):
I appreciate you right back, right back at you, Joe.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
You know that. Okay, thank you, my friend. Say ahad
everybody for me. Okay, we're done for the night. I
got word tonight. I'm going to mention it tomorrow. One
of our most loyal callers has passed away. Some of
you remember Paul from Dorchester. He's a gentleman who taught
in the Boston public schools and worked as a basketball coach.
I hadn't heard from in a while. So maybe tonight
(40:16):
before you go to bed, say a prayer for Paul.
Paul Mahoney of Dorchester and Norwood, who's a great loyal
listener of Nightside, always brought us a game and passed
away today. I'll mention it tomorrow night as well. I
want to thank that the person who passed that information
on to me. My name is Dan Ray. Thank you
very much. Rob Brooks, thank you very much, Marita, I'll lend.
(40:38):
There's always all dogs, all cats, all pets go to heaven.
That's why Pal Charlie Ray is who passed fifteen years ago.
That's where all your pets are who passed. They loved
you and you love them. I do believe you'll see
them again. Hope to see again tomorrow night on night
Side at eight o'clock. Have a great Friday everyone. I'm
going to see you on Facebook Nice Side with Dan
Ray in about two minutes. Join us there. I love
(40:59):
to say hello, have a great Friday. I'll talk to
you to morrow.
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