June 11, 2025 • 36 mins
A lag in job growth in Massachusetts is one of the reasons the state is trailing the nation in GDP growth. With fewer private sector jobs, fewer residents are working, earning wages, and contributing to the local economy. Dan talked with Aidan Enright, Economic Research Associate at the Pioneer Institute for Public Policy Research, about what the research indicates.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Thanks very much, Dan Watkins, welcome back everyone to our
second hour on nine o'clock hour here on Wednesday night,
June eleventh, and delighted to be joined this hour by
Aiden Enwright. Aiden is economic research associate at the Pioneer
Institute for Public Policy Research. I think most of you
know that I've had several guests on from the Pioneer
(00:29):
Institute to say it's a financial think tank and it
has a couple of reports coming out, both of which
are concerning, I think substantially concerning. To be really honest
with you, and I hope, I hope that some of
you will participate. It's always difficult to talk about numbers
(00:53):
on the radio, so just sit back and listen and
take this in and then we can we can talk
about it. Aiden En, right, welcome back to Nightside. How
are you, sir?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Hi Dan, Thanks for having me on again.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Let's start with the clearer, cleaner example that we want
to talk about, and that is the fact that since
the COVID pandemic struck in twenty twenty, since then, we
(01:29):
have lost here in Massachusetts thirty thousand jobs First of all,
that's an incredible number of jobs to lose at any
point in time. Can we write that off and say, well,
that's the consequence of the pandemic.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I don't really think so. You know, if we looked
at how we're comparing to other states, pretty much almost
every single other state in the country has returned to
pre pandemic employment levels and beyond. Massachusetts is one of
only four other states that have lost jobs since twenty twenty,
(02:18):
and that's detrimental to the state.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Who are the other states that have lost jobs? I mean,
there are fifty states in the Union. Massachusetts is one.
We're down about thirty thousand. These are private sector jobs.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Correct, Yeah, these are just private sector jobs, so we're
not talking about government jobs. The other states that have
also lost employment one is Vermont, the other is Hawaii
partially due to you know, reductions and tourism during the pandemic,
(02:54):
and then the last one is Iowa.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
So for us to lose thirty thousand private sector jobs,
are they high paying jobs that? Do we have any
way of tracking as to what type of jobs we're
bleeding we're losing?
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
The one thing I go into in the report that's
going to be out is that there's an industry breakdown
in the jobs that we're losing. Some are quote unquote
lower skills, lower paying, like retail or transportation. We lost
about twenty seven thousand retail jobs, but they're also in
(03:42):
some sect high growth and are typically high growth and
high wage sectors as well. In manufacturing, we've lost over
that thirteen thousand jobs. In information, we've lost an additional
seven one thousand, and most concertingly to me, since twenty
(04:05):
twenty two, we've lost about eleven thousand jobs and what's
called the professional, scientific and Technical services center sector, and
basically that kind of what's included in that sector are
say like biopharma research and development firms and other tech
(04:29):
related jobs.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Okay, now thirty thousand, So we've obviously, when you say
we've lost twenty thousand here or ten thousand there, there
are also some jobs that have filled in the gap.
I mean, again, I don't want to get too much
in the weeds here, but if we're losing thirty thousand
(04:53):
jobs and the majority of them are retail jobs, I
think you said it was twenty seven thousand retail.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Jobs, yes, twenty seven thousand.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Okay, have that's overall. So are we picking up jobs
that are more than offsetting the jobs that we're losing.
I mean, when you say thirty thousand jobs lost, that's
a big number, and it would almost fill Fenway Park,
and it would fill the Boston Ground and close to
a couple of times. But are we picking up better
(05:24):
paying jobs, you know? Or are we look or are
there other statistics that would seem to indicate that we're
really we're getting hurt here in Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
No.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I mean, there are certain sectors that are a little
bit more resilient to kind of economic downturns or economic uncertainty.
So something might be healthcare and social assistance sector in Massachusetts,
or educational services. Those have grown in employment, but they
(05:59):
haven't grown own to the extent to offset the jobs
that we've been losing in other fields.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And those those are not necessarily high paying jobs.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
No, they're not necessarily high paying depend they.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Should maybe should be getting more money. But at this point, okay,
so we'll focus on the jobs for another moment or two.
What the headline here, and I don't want to bury
the headline or bury the lead, is that there's only
four states in the Union that overall have fewer jobs
(06:37):
private sector jobs today. If we lose private sector jobs
at that rate, we also might find ourselves, in my opinion,
with a problem of tax revenues which would support public
sector jobs. I assume some public sector jobs are going
(06:58):
to be impacted by whatever cuts the Trump administration makes,
and then are are not subject court challenges. So it
looks to me like this is a bit of a
perfect storm. Or am I over am I overreacting?
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I mean there there are several you know, cascading type
effects that would happen from you know, a decline in
private employment. You know, in Massachusetts, we want good, high
paying jobs. You know, we want people to be able
to grow up in Massachusetts and be able to start
their careers and work here or start their own businesses.
(07:38):
You know, if we're not creating those jobs, if we're
not creating those opportunities for people, you know, some young
people are going to look elsewhere to put roots down.
And then you know, we're also going to miss out
from you know, the revenue that in taxes that those
people would be proding to our local governments. That might
(08:02):
cost public sector jobs for the government. It might mean
that there's you know, there's not as much growth in
assistance programs, so it just makes the budget a bit tighter,
and so you know that's another effect.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Okay, when we get back from the break, there's another
study that you've done which complements this study. Pretty well.
All of us have heard of the gross Domestic product
the GDP. You've come up with a statistic for the
gross state product, and there's not much there that is
(08:41):
of great comfort. Let me put it like that. Well,
we'll break down those numbers, we'll see that they do
sort of reflect one another, and then we'll open it
up to phone calls and maybe some people will be
a little bit more optimistic. Both of these reports are concerning,
maybe not frightening, but they're concerning and they need to
(09:03):
be considered in the months and the years ahead. We'll
be back on Nightside. My guest is from the Pioneer Institute,
which is a really solid think tank. Aiden Enwright joins us.
We'll be back right after this break with more conversation.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
If you're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w
b Z, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
We're talking with aiden Enright and the numbers that the
Pioneer Institute has for us. They're not good numbers. Okay,
so let's talk. We've talked about job loss, and there
are only four states in the country from mont Iowa, Hawaii,
and Massachusetts who have fewer jobs private sector jobs today.
(09:53):
Do you know, off hand, aiden, if our public sector
has grown during that same period of time. I suspect
it has.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
It has to a certain extent, not as much as
some other states, but yes, it has grown.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Right. Well, I know that the most recent state budget
was sixty two billion dollars, and I know it wasn't
sixty or anywhere near sixty billion dollars. It was probably
much more in the forties five years ago, when you know,
Charlie Baker was in the midst of his second term.
So I suspect that we probably have we have more
(10:31):
public sector employees, more state employees, more municipal employees, and
fewer private sector employees. That's a that's a strategy for
economic disaster. And along with that, you folks at Pioneer
have done a have developed a program to judge what
(10:53):
we call the gross state product, sort of modeled after
the GDP, the gross domestic product. And it sounds to
me as if we in Massachusetts are not nearly as
productive as we were a few years ago. And correct
me if I'm wrong. I think I've read your report accurately.
(11:14):
We used to be, on a per capita basis, the
fourth most productive state in the Union. We now have dropped.
I believe the statistics suggest to the twenty eighth most
productive state. Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
So I would frame it a little bit differently Massachusetts. Yeah, sure,
Massachusetts is still the second most productive state in the country,
only trailing New York, but it's not growing at the
same rate as other states. And so between nineteen ninety
(11:51):
eight and twenty nineteen, Massachusetts was growing at the fourth like,
it was growing at the fourth fastest rate out of
all states. But since twenty twenty that growth has slowed down,
and now our growth is twenty eight fastest out of
all states.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Okay, so we're this is a measurement of growth, and obviously,
what do we have to do to get the growth
kickstarted or or get that growth ticking up a little bit,
because obviously if we keep falling behind every year, that's
that's that is not doesn't augur well.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Either, Yeah, certainly, you know, during the pandemic and following it,
a lot of states really kind of rethought their economic
strategies for how to grow. You know, if you look
at states like Florida, or Texas, or North Carolina, even
New Hampshire, they've really aggressively recruited businesses. They've streamlined permitting,
(12:57):
they've kept taxes really low, and they've built housing out
to accommodate new residents into their state to continue to grow.
You know, in that time, Massachusetts, while we've made changes
here and there, we've mostly stayed with the same old
playbook and it's really no longer working. You know, if
(13:20):
we want to retain our innovation economy, if we want
to retain our economic growth, create good, good paying jobs,
you know, we need to make some changes to make
the state more affordable to attract businesses, to make it
easier to start a business here. We need to make
it so that we can grow the housing stocks that
(13:42):
people can afford to live here. It's kind of an
across the board things that needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
So how have we lost our way? I mean, there
was a period of time when we had a democratic
legislature and from you know, going back to the time
of John Volpi, and going back to the to the
more recent time of Well Frank Sergeant Bill Weld, Paul Salucci,
(14:13):
Mitt Romney, Charlie Baker, we had Republican governors and democratic
legislator legislature was right now we have a democratic governor
and democratic legislature, and we've been in that situation now
for two and a half years. I know the Pioneer
Institute is not going to get political. I don't want
(14:35):
you to get political on me. But I'm looking at
a correlation there which says that the things need to
need to get shaken up here in Massachusetts a little bit. Oh,
we're going to continue to drift down. This this chart
that I'm looking at the private sector per capitol real
GSP growth. You know, the the we're way down. We're
(15:02):
down at like twelve point five percent. Florida is twice
as much as we are in terms of growth. Texas
is almost twice as much the national We're below the
national average and growth. You know, if you take states
that have a lot of problems that we don't have, Alabama, Mississippi,
some of those states we may be ahead of them,
(15:24):
but that's about the only people we're ahead of. North
Carolina's ahead of us, as you mentioned, Texas, Florida. How
do we turn this around?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Yeah, Well, I think one bit is that after the
pandemic or during it, a lot of states decided to
lower taxes on individuals, lower their tax rates in several
different categories, and Massachusetts instead decided to raise taxes on
(15:59):
wealthy or individuals. Also, during that period of time, there
have been several cities and other states that have made
moves to streamline regulations related to housing development. And so
(16:20):
while these states have done that, Massachusetts has made some
incremental change, but it hasn't really had an effect on
the state's housing stock. You know, between twenty eleven and
twenty twenty three, we had more housing permitted in each
of those years than we did in twenty twenty four.
(16:40):
So we're not really changing enough to kind of build
out the state and make it a place for businesses
and for talent and people to locate to.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
My guess is, Aidenn, right, We're going to take a
break here for the news at the bottom of the
air if you'd like to join us, if you have
thoughts on these statistics, which frankly are not are not heartening.
I wouldn't call them frightening, but they are. They are
concerning statistics. To me, I'd love to hear from you again.
I know statistics are tough on radio, but if you
(17:16):
follow the conversation, love to get your point of view.
Six one, seven, two, five, four to ten thirty or
six one, seven, nine, three, one ten thirty back with
Aiden en Wright and your calls and comments. Aiden is
with the Pioneer Institute, which is a great think tank
here in Massachusetts, and I just wish that our political
leaders would pay a little more attention to what these
(17:37):
reports are trying to tell them. Back on night Side
after the News at the bottom of.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
The hour, You're on night Side with Dan Ray. I'm
w b Z, Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Okay, we have waded through the numbers, and the numbers
don't lie. I mean, the numbers are there to be
looked at, and I want to talk to callers. I
want to give I want to give you an opportunity
to challenge numbers, to say the numbers don't matter, which
I think is a silly position to take. But if
you want to take that position, that's fine. You cannot
continue to grow the commonwealth if you're losing private sector
(18:11):
jobs at the same time you're increasing the state budget.
It just at some point, particularly in a state where
the governor is mandated constitutionally to balance the budget. And
we're also in a state where the state auditor, who
happens to be a Democrat by the way, is attempting
to audit the state legislature, both basically most of whom
(18:31):
are Democrats, and this saying to the state auditor, mind
your own business. Guess what it's Diane Desauglio's business to
audit the legislature, amongst other things. Let's go to the phones.
Let me go first off to Paul in nan Tasket
down by the water's edge. Paul, welcome to night side.
Your next damn, what's going on? Well, you're you're hearing
(18:53):
some numbers here. I'd love to know what you think
you're wrong with aident.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
I've got a couple of things that's speaking.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
The numbers whatever.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
Two and a half we have the old property two.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
And a half still in fact. Prop two and a
half is still in effect, but it allows and has
allowed every year to increase and aidens will help me
out here, not necessarily to limit your property tax it
limits the tax levee that the town can cumulatively announce.
(19:24):
So let's say that that there's a property tax levee.
All the property tax in your community is one hundred
million dollars. That means that a year from now, even
with Prop two and a half, it can go up
two and a half percent, So it can go up
to one hundred and two and a half million dollars.
And someone's got to pick up that additional two and
(19:46):
a half million dollars, and in some cases it's gonna
be guys like.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
So here's the first thing. And the second thing is
a lot of these city and towns are used in
Chapter ninety money, which is eroads when you fixture roads
and stuff. Now I find out that a lot of
city in towns they can buy equipment through Chapter ninety.
That's like loaders, you know, trucks that you use in
the road. So instead of paving, they're buying all this
(20:13):
stuff without going to town meetings. And they're taking this
Chapter ninety money they used to go for one hundred
percent for roads and they use it to buy their
own equipment. You have to see somebody sitting in town.
They got the best equipment than the contractors have and
no one knows how to use it.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
So let's see. Let me see if Aidan wants to
weigh in on that two points that Paul has made.
I hope I haven't misled him on to the chapter
the prop two and a half situation, everybody thought, well
that my taxes can only go up two and a
half percent. It's the entire levee that the town or
the city actually can raise two and a half percent.
(20:51):
So that's number one. And what about his points about
the towns being able to buy the best equipment with
money free money from the state.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, I think on the first point you covered that great, Dan.
On the second, I don't know if I necessarily have
the expertise based off of the studies to answer that
particular question.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
So all right, fair enough, Paul, I assume you know
of what you speak.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
I do.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
That's why I brought it up.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
You brought it up, so you.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Brought it up with a lot of conviction. I don't
think my first answer probably satisfied you, but unfortunately that
is the truth.
Speaker 6 (21:36):
You know, And thank you Dan for having me on again.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Well, Paul, you keep calling the show, Okay, and enjoy
the summer on Nantaska. Thanks so much. Thank you. That's
a great one. All right, Joining us now is a
candidate for governor, Brian shortly, Brian, welcome back to Night's Side.
Thank you for checking in, Thank you for listening to
the program. Aiden en Wright is our guest. I know
(22:00):
you probably have some thoughts on what you've heard, but
you probably knew about this ahead of time. Go right ahead.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Well, thanks for having me on, Dan and hello Aiden.
I just wanted to say I think there's a lot
that we can do to solve the problem of people
leaving Massachusetts and businesses leaving Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
And I think it.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Starts with electing a new governor in November of twenty
twenty six. You know, as I listened to.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
The conversation, I'm sure you have a candidate in mind, Brian.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
I think we could use a businessman, a business builder
in the corner office. And when I listened to the conversation,
you know, we know why people in businesses are leaving Massachusetts.
It's because taxes are too high and electricity bills are
too high. Those are things a governor can effect on
day one. You know, a governor on day one could
cut all those state manded fees out of the utility bill,
(22:47):
could reduce the costs for business and individuals of utility bills,
and a governor could really go to go to work
on reducing taxes and getting state spending under control. Those
are things that I think, as you mentioned, we've seen
Republican governors in the past, you know, like Charlie Baker,
that Romney and Bill Well, and I think it's time
that we bring a Republican back to the corner office.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Well, for those who do not know, Brian is one
of two Republicans you and Mike Kneely are vuying for
the Republican nomination. I've had both of you on in
the last month or so. These studies that Pioneer has released.
They're really good studies if people could take the time
(23:31):
to read them, and it's tough to explain them Brian
on the air, because it's numbers and you don't have
the visual aspect on radio that you do have on television.
How much would you be relying upon if you're fortunate
enough to be elected governor on some of the work
that the Pioneer Institute does, particularly as it relates.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
To well aident pioneer, do incredible work. But I would
tell you there's a family behind every statistic. Every time
a company closes because they can't operate here, that's someone
losing a job. It's someone who can't put food on
the table, and often it's a young person leaving the state,
you know, And that means we've got parents like me,
I've got young kids. You know, got parents and grandparents
(24:14):
who are losing their loved ones, losing their kids and
their grandkids to other states. So I think behind these statistics,
it's really a story of our young people leaving. We've
got to keep our young people here, and it starts
with building a private sector economy that can grow in scale.
At the end of the day, the mark of a
successful state is a private sector economy that's growing. That
(24:34):
means people want to be here in businesses want.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
To be here.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
If you're if you're shedding private sector jobs, it means
you're not a good place to do business. And behind
those statistics, you know, are a lot of families that
are that are feeling the pain on companies closing, and
a lot of parents and grandparents that are seeing their
loved ones and their children in some cases moving to
other states. And I think we can turn all that
around with a much more business oriented approach to cutting taxes,
(24:59):
cutting feet, and getting our private sector grown again.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well, the report that really struck me in Again, I'm
a fairly I'm a numbers guy, but when Aiden points
out that since twenty twenty, as most other states have
recaptured the jobs that were lost as a result of
the pandemic, and a lot of those jobs were in
hospitality and as we know, but Massachusetts is now down
(25:25):
thirty thousand jobs. Those are thirty thousand taxpayers that are
not contributing to the to the tax base, and there's
only four states. I was stunned, and Aiden, I assume this.
I want to get you involved here as well. This
is a statistic which has to be stunning even to
(25:49):
Governor Healy to think that since twenty twenty, we're down
thirty thousand jobs and there's only three other states Vermont, Hawaii,
which I was impacted badly by tourism in Iowa, and
I have no idea why Iowa is involved in this,
but those are the only four states that are down
(26:09):
jobs since twenty twenty. And I'm stunned by that, Brian,
I assume you were aware of that.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
Well I am. I am stunned by it as well.
And I'll tell you another statistic, which Pioneer has done
a great job over the years tracking, is the amount
of income moving out of the state. The most recent
figure we saw on that, which is the twenty twenty
two number, is four billion dollars of income left the state.
That's an IRS statistic. More, heally ran on the largest
(26:39):
tax increase in state history in twenty twenty two, which
was the millionaire's tax, And since the day that millionaire
tax came in, we have an added a single private
sector job. And I expect when the numbers come out
for twenty twenty three, we will have seen again billions
of dollars of income leaving the state. Five hundred people
a week leaving the state. Those are very very real numbers,
(27:00):
and there's a family, there's a human being behind every
one of them. But I think these are major issues
that we need a new governor to really focus on
and get the state growing again.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
And by the way, not that this is the most importance,
but for those of you out there who were sports fans,
when I talked last hour with Kevin Paul DuPont of
The Boston World Great hockey writer. You know when a
Brad marsh On who's now playing for Florida looks at
the possibility of coming back to Massachusetts. All of these
(27:30):
great players in whether it's hockey, basketball, football, or baseball,
once they get to those earning years after've been in
the league for a few years, and the team then
has to give them the opportunity to go out in
the free market. All the Boston based teams are going
to be a tremendous disadvantage, particularly with a lot of
these states like Tennessee and Texas and Florida, which don't
(27:54):
have state income taxes. So you're going to say that
the same player that you're offering a ten million dollar
contract to, oh yeah, it's gonna cost you an extra
nine hundred thousand dollars to play in Massachusetts, where you
know you won't have to pay any of that if
you're playing in Texas or Tennessee or Florida, Mark my words,
(28:15):
that is gonna that's gonna come home and hurt. These
teams better continue to develop guys in the farm system
like the Red Sox are doing, who get to play
those first three or four years, you know, under a
very limited contract. Brian, You're always welcome here, you know that.
Thank you very much for listening tonight and joining the conversation.
(28:36):
Final comment for you, Brian, and I also want to
give Aidan a last quick comment. We'll take some more
phone calls Aidan and I will, but Brian, what's your
final word? And also I want to thank you.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
I'm a regular listener. It's a great show. And for
those that are is in my campaign, please check out
my website at Brian Shortsleeve dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Thank you all right, Brian, Thank you very much. Aidan.
I want to continue our conversation with callers. I am
concerned about this this report. I want to also give
people an opportunity. I assumed this will be in newspapers
tomorrow because I believe it's been released. Both of these
reports have been released today. Have you talked tonight with
(29:15):
either the Globe, of the Herald or any of the
other newspapers around the carm Wall.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah, so the report will be released tomorrow. I've also
talked with the Globe about it, so there should be
a piece in the in the in the business section.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
But yeah, okay, so they may either be in tomorrow's
paper or in Friday's paper. We'll take a quick break.
My guest is Aiden Enwright. He's with the Pioneer Institute.
We're talking about two studies that Pioneer has just released,
which shows one that Massachusetts over the last five years
has lost a lot of jobs and maybe those jobs
(29:56):
are not coming back or coming back anytime soon. At
a time, we're down about thirty thousand private sector jobs.
We are we are probably up in public sector jobs,
but down in private sector jobs. And also what is
called the the growth uh the of the state product
(30:18):
the GSP, as opposed that the GDP in Massachusetts is
falling backwards. Its growth is slowing down, which is reflective
of the loss of jobs. If you'd like to join
the conversation, I got wide open lines six, one, seven, two, five,
four ten, thirty, six one, seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty.
(30:40):
I know numbers are tough, but numbers really are important
because they have an impact. As Brian Shortsleeve said on
families and families are leaving Massachusetts. That does not argue
well for the future. Back with Aiden Enwright of the
Pioneer Institute and your calls or questions or it's coming
back right after.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
This Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
My guess is, aiden En Wright, let's get back to
the phone call. Let me go to Jim in the car. Jim,
you were next on Night Side with aiden enright goright ahead, Jim.
Speaker 7 (31:18):
Hi, I just wanted to say I really enjoyed your
conversation with.
Speaker 5 (31:24):
Gentlemen running for.
Speaker 7 (31:26):
The governor Republican nomination, and I would love to have
Charlie Baker a like person orned Rodney like person as
governor of the state of Massachusetts, because I think they
would be great for the economy. But Charlie Baker did
not run because he came out against the January sixth
(31:48):
riots and against Trunt's denial of the election. And that
is why we do not have Charlie Baker as the
governor right now.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
And Charlie Baker ran twice, was elected by times, and
he had a job offer for eleven million dollars from
the NCAA. I don't think that, Charle. I think Charlie
Baker felt that he had served as governor for two
terms eight years uh, and he was going to move on. Jim.
(32:16):
To be honest, with you. I I know that that
Baker was not a Trump guy. I got that, and
I don't think.
Speaker 7 (32:23):
That he did not. But I disagree. I mean, I
he from reporting, I heard he did not run because
he would not get the Republican nominations or Yeah, I gotta.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Be honest with you. I think that the Massachusetts Republican Party,
if they had had the opportunity, would have renominated Charlie Baker.
Speaker 7 (32:44):
That's the reporting.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
And I agree, Oh, fine, you know you you rely
on your reporters. Feel free to rely on your reporters.
I know Baker, I know him pretty well. And uh,
and I'm pretty confident that that eleven million dollar contract,
that annual contract for eleven million dollars was a lot
more than he was making as governor of Massachusetts, unless
(33:06):
you know, I think he had a right after having
served two terms to take a big paycheck. I got
to keep running. I'm not going to argue with the
gym over whether or not charge.
Speaker 7 (33:16):
I agree one thing. On the economy though, with the
funding that Trump is going to withhold from Harvard, it's
going to make the four billion in bost income or
high income jobs seemed like peanuts, and that was going
for cancer research.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Okay, well again, call me some night and we'll you
and I can just trash Trump. That's not my purpose tonight. Okay,
we can, you know, feel free to call me and
and and we can engage in a Trump trashth on
you and I thanks to appreciate the call. Okay, let's
keep rolling. You're going to go to Christopher and Hero. Christopher.
You got to be very quick. We got less than
a minute left, Christopher, go right ahead.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
Yeah, I just uh, Dan just wanted to say, you know,
first on caller, a long time listener, thank you. I'm
I'm in my forties.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I've been in the.
Speaker 5 (34:04):
I've been in the IT field for last eighteen years.
Was working for a biotech firm and ended up subsequently
being pushed out of the out of the company and
you know, for a managed service provider that was coming
in at a lot cheaper and with the way the
(34:25):
economy is right now, I've been out of the IT
field unfortunately for the last year, since since last April.
And yeah, it's just I'm seeing, you know, colleagues of
minor are also in the same boat. That's just it
seems like the you know, especially the IT field, I
think is over overly saturated. So I'm just not what
(34:47):
what did you do?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
What did you do in it? Specifically? Christopher?
Speaker 5 (34:52):
So I was handling. I was an IT manager, So
I was handling all of the infrastructure for the company
that I was working for, or so everything from deploying
of systems to managing users and.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Real quickly here, what I'm going to do is I
want to ask you to leave your phone number with Andrew. Sure,
what sort of a salary are you looking for?
Speaker 5 (35:16):
I you know I was in the eighty to ninety range,
was where I was at previously?
Speaker 2 (35:23):
And what's your education level?
Speaker 5 (35:27):
I have an associates in computer science and several several
certifications with Microsoft.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Leave leave your name. Leave your name and your phone number,
daytime phone number with Andrew. And if there's anyone out
there who would like to talk with you. You sound
like a great guy, well qualified, and they want to
call the station, we have your permission to pass your
name on.
Speaker 5 (35:50):
Yeah, definitely fair enough.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
You talked to Andrew. Leave your phone number and your
last name and a daytime phone number. Who knows, maybe
we can help Christopher get back employed in the private
You just don't know a and then Wright, thank you
for your time. Those of you who are calling, we're
a little late. We're going to go to a different topic,
a different guest right after the ten o'clock news. Wish
y'all called a little earlier. Aiden, please keep in touch.
(36:12):
Love what Pioneer does, and I love what you do.
And again, numbers are tough, but you do a great
job and I appreciate you taking the time tonight.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Aidan, Okay, Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
Dan.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Absolutely, we'll have you back when we get back on
talk with a Polster Suffolk poster Dave Paley Logus about
a poll that has shown us shown to us that
again Donald Trump is not particularly well liked in New
England voters New Hampshire specifically Massachusetts and Rhode Island. But
the Democrats aren't taking advantage of that situation. So I'm
(36:44):
hoping that Jim in the car is paying attention, particularly
to my guests, to coming up. Dave Paleologus
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Thanks very much, Dan Watkins, welcome back everyone to our
second hour on nine o'clock hour here on Wednesday night,
June eleventh, and delighted to be joined this hour by
Aiden Enwright. Aiden is economic research associate at the Pioneer
Institute for Public Policy Research. I think most of you
know that I've had several guests on from the Pioneer
(00:29):
Institute to say it's a financial think tank and it
has a couple of reports coming out, both of which
are concerning, I think substantially concerning. To be really honest
with you, and I hope, I hope that some of
you will participate. It's always difficult to talk about numbers
(00:53):
on the radio, so just sit back and listen and
take this in and then we can we can talk
about it. Aiden En, right, welcome back to Nightside. How
are you, sir?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Hi Dan, Thanks for having me on again.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Let's start with the clearer, cleaner example that we want
to talk about, and that is the fact that since
the COVID pandemic struck in twenty twenty, since then, we
(01:29):
have lost here in Massachusetts thirty thousand jobs First of all,
that's an incredible number of jobs to lose at any
point in time. Can we write that off and say, well,
that's the consequence of the pandemic.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I don't really think so. You know, if we looked
at how we're comparing to other states, pretty much almost
every single other state in the country has returned to
pre pandemic employment levels and beyond. Massachusetts is one of
only four other states that have lost jobs since twenty twenty,
(02:18):
and that's detrimental to the state.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Who are the other states that have lost jobs? I mean,
there are fifty states in the Union. Massachusetts is one.
We're down about thirty thousand. These are private sector jobs.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Correct, Yeah, these are just private sector jobs, so we're
not talking about government jobs. The other states that have
also lost employment one is Vermont, the other is Hawaii
partially due to you know, reductions and tourism during the pandemic,
(02:54):
and then the last one is Iowa.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
So for us to lose thirty thousand private sector jobs,
are they high paying jobs that? Do we have any
way of tracking as to what type of jobs we're
bleeding we're losing?
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
The one thing I go into in the report that's
going to be out is that there's an industry breakdown
in the jobs that we're losing. Some are quote unquote
lower skills, lower paying, like retail or transportation. We lost
about twenty seven thousand retail jobs, but they're also in
(03:42):
some sect high growth and are typically high growth and
high wage sectors as well. In manufacturing, we've lost over
that thirteen thousand jobs. In information, we've lost an additional
seven one thousand, and most concertingly to me, since twenty
(04:05):
twenty two, we've lost about eleven thousand jobs and what's
called the professional, scientific and Technical services center sector, and
basically that kind of what's included in that sector are
say like biopharma research and development firms and other tech
(04:29):
related jobs.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Okay, now thirty thousand, So we've obviously, when you say
we've lost twenty thousand here or ten thousand there, there
are also some jobs that have filled in the gap.
I mean, again, I don't want to get too much
in the weeds here, but if we're losing thirty thousand
(04:53):
jobs and the majority of them are retail jobs, I
think you said it was twenty seven thousand retail.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Jobs, yes, twenty seven thousand.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Okay, have that's overall. So are we picking up jobs
that are more than offsetting the jobs that we're losing.
I mean, when you say thirty thousand jobs lost, that's
a big number, and it would almost fill Fenway Park,
and it would fill the Boston Ground and close to
a couple of times. But are we picking up better
(05:24):
paying jobs, you know? Or are we look or are
there other statistics that would seem to indicate that we're
really we're getting hurt here in Massachusetts.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
No.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I mean, there are certain sectors that are a little
bit more resilient to kind of economic downturns or economic uncertainty.
So something might be healthcare and social assistance sector in Massachusetts,
or educational services. Those have grown in employment, but they
(05:59):
haven't grown own to the extent to offset the jobs
that we've been losing in other fields.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
And those those are not necessarily high paying jobs.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
No, they're not necessarily high paying depend they.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Should maybe should be getting more money. But at this point, okay,
so we'll focus on the jobs for another moment or two.
What the headline here, and I don't want to bury
the headline or bury the lead, is that there's only
four states in the Union that overall have fewer jobs
(06:37):
private sector jobs today. If we lose private sector jobs
at that rate, we also might find ourselves, in my opinion,
with a problem of tax revenues which would support public
sector jobs. I assume some public sector jobs are going
(06:58):
to be impacted by whatever cuts the Trump administration makes,
and then are are not subject court challenges. So it
looks to me like this is a bit of a
perfect storm. Or am I over am I overreacting?
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I mean there there are several you know, cascading type
effects that would happen from you know, a decline in
private employment. You know, in Massachusetts, we want good, high
paying jobs. You know, we want people to be able
to grow up in Massachusetts and be able to start
their careers and work here or start their own businesses.
(07:38):
You know, if we're not creating those jobs, if we're
not creating those opportunities for people, you know, some young
people are going to look elsewhere to put roots down.
And then you know, we're also going to miss out
from you know, the revenue that in taxes that those
people would be proding to our local governments. That might
(08:02):
cost public sector jobs for the government. It might mean
that there's you know, there's not as much growth in
assistance programs, so it just makes the budget a bit tighter,
and so you know that's another effect.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Okay, when we get back from the break, there's another
study that you've done which complements this study. Pretty well.
All of us have heard of the gross Domestic product
the GDP. You've come up with a statistic for the
gross state product, and there's not much there that is
(08:41):
of great comfort. Let me put it like that. Well,
we'll break down those numbers, we'll see that they do
sort of reflect one another, and then we'll open it
up to phone calls and maybe some people will be
a little bit more optimistic. Both of these reports are concerning,
maybe not frightening, but they're concerning and they need to
(09:03):
be considered in the months and the years ahead. We'll
be back on Nightside. My guest is from the Pioneer Institute,
which is a really solid think tank. Aiden Enwright joins us.
We'll be back right after this break with more conversation.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
If you're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w
b Z, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
We're talking with aiden Enright and the numbers that the
Pioneer Institute has for us. They're not good numbers. Okay,
so let's talk. We've talked about job loss, and there
are only four states in the country from mont Iowa, Hawaii,
and Massachusetts who have fewer jobs private sector jobs today.
(09:53):
Do you know, off hand, aiden, if our public sector
has grown during that same period of time. I suspect
it has.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
It has to a certain extent, not as much as
some other states, but yes, it has grown.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Right. Well, I know that the most recent state budget
was sixty two billion dollars, and I know it wasn't
sixty or anywhere near sixty billion dollars. It was probably
much more in the forties five years ago, when you know,
Charlie Baker was in the midst of his second term.
So I suspect that we probably have we have more
(10:31):
public sector employees, more state employees, more municipal employees, and
fewer private sector employees. That's a that's a strategy for
economic disaster. And along with that, you folks at Pioneer
have done a have developed a program to judge what
(10:53):
we call the gross state product, sort of modeled after
the GDP, the gross domestic product. And it sounds to
me as if we in Massachusetts are not nearly as
productive as we were a few years ago. And correct
me if I'm wrong. I think I've read your report accurately.
(11:14):
We used to be, on a per capita basis, the
fourth most productive state in the Union. We now have dropped.
I believe the statistics suggest to the twenty eighth most
productive state. Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
So I would frame it a little bit differently Massachusetts. Yeah, sure,
Massachusetts is still the second most productive state in the country,
only trailing New York, but it's not growing at the
same rate as other states. And so between nineteen ninety
(11:51):
eight and twenty nineteen, Massachusetts was growing at the fourth like,
it was growing at the fourth fastest rate out of
all states. But since twenty twenty that growth has slowed down,
and now our growth is twenty eight fastest out of
all states.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Okay, so we're this is a measurement of growth, and obviously,
what do we have to do to get the growth
kickstarted or or get that growth ticking up a little bit,
because obviously if we keep falling behind every year, that's
that's that is not doesn't augur well.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Either, Yeah, certainly, you know, during the pandemic and following it,
a lot of states really kind of rethought their economic
strategies for how to grow. You know, if you look
at states like Florida, or Texas, or North Carolina, even
New Hampshire, they've really aggressively recruited businesses. They've streamlined permitting,
(12:57):
they've kept taxes really low, and they've built housing out
to accommodate new residents into their state to continue to grow.
You know, in that time, Massachusetts, while we've made changes
here and there, we've mostly stayed with the same old
playbook and it's really no longer working. You know, if
(13:20):
we want to retain our innovation economy, if we want
to retain our economic growth, create good, good paying jobs,
you know, we need to make some changes to make
the state more affordable to attract businesses, to make it
easier to start a business here. We need to make
it so that we can grow the housing stocks that
(13:42):
people can afford to live here. It's kind of an
across the board things that needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
So how have we lost our way? I mean, there
was a period of time when we had a democratic
legislature and from you know, going back to the time
of John Volpi, and going back to the to the
more recent time of Well Frank Sergeant Bill Weld, Paul Salucci,
(14:13):
Mitt Romney, Charlie Baker, we had Republican governors and democratic
legislator legislature was right now we have a democratic governor
and democratic legislature, and we've been in that situation now
for two and a half years. I know the Pioneer
Institute is not going to get political. I don't want
(14:35):
you to get political on me. But I'm looking at
a correlation there which says that the things need to
need to get shaken up here in Massachusetts a little bit. Oh,
we're going to continue to drift down. This this chart
that I'm looking at the private sector per capitol real
GSP growth. You know, the the we're way down. We're
(15:02):
down at like twelve point five percent. Florida is twice
as much as we are in terms of growth. Texas
is almost twice as much the national We're below the
national average and growth. You know, if you take states
that have a lot of problems that we don't have, Alabama, Mississippi,
some of those states we may be ahead of them,
(15:24):
but that's about the only people we're ahead of. North
Carolina's ahead of us, as you mentioned, Texas, Florida. How
do we turn this around?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Yeah, Well, I think one bit is that after the
pandemic or during it, a lot of states decided to
lower taxes on individuals, lower their tax rates in several
different categories, and Massachusetts instead decided to raise taxes on
(15:59):
wealthy or individuals. Also, during that period of time, there
have been several cities and other states that have made
moves to streamline regulations related to housing development. And so
(16:20):
while these states have done that, Massachusetts has made some
incremental change, but it hasn't really had an effect on
the state's housing stock. You know, between twenty eleven and
twenty twenty three, we had more housing permitted in each
of those years than we did in twenty twenty four.
(16:40):
So we're not really changing enough to kind of build
out the state and make it a place for businesses
and for talent and people to locate to.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
My guess is, Aidenn, right, We're going to take a
break here for the news at the bottom of the
air if you'd like to join us, if you have
thoughts on these statistics, which frankly are not are not heartening.
I wouldn't call them frightening, but they are. They are
concerning statistics. To me, I'd love to hear from you again.
I know statistics are tough on radio, but if you
(17:16):
follow the conversation, love to get your point of view.
Six one, seven, two, five, four to ten thirty or
six one, seven, nine, three, one ten thirty back with
Aiden en Wright and your calls and comments. Aiden is
with the Pioneer Institute, which is a great think tank
here in Massachusetts, and I just wish that our political
leaders would pay a little more attention to what these
(17:37):
reports are trying to tell them. Back on night Side
after the News at the bottom of.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
The hour, You're on night Side with Dan Ray. I'm
w b Z, Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Okay, we have waded through the numbers, and the numbers
don't lie. I mean, the numbers are there to be
looked at, and I want to talk to callers. I
want to give I want to give you an opportunity
to challenge numbers, to say the numbers don't matter, which
I think is a silly position to take. But if
you want to take that position, that's fine. You cannot
continue to grow the commonwealth if you're losing private sector
(18:11):
jobs at the same time you're increasing the state budget.
It just at some point, particularly in a state where
the governor is mandated constitutionally to balance the budget. And
we're also in a state where the state auditor, who
happens to be a Democrat by the way, is attempting
to audit the state legislature, both basically most of whom
(18:31):
are Democrats, and this saying to the state auditor, mind
your own business. Guess what it's Diane Desauglio's business to
audit the legislature, amongst other things. Let's go to the phones.
Let me go first off to Paul in nan Tasket
down by the water's edge. Paul, welcome to night side.
Your next damn, what's going on? Well, you're you're hearing
(18:53):
some numbers here. I'd love to know what you think
you're wrong with aident.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
I've got a couple of things that's speaking.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
The numbers whatever.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
Two and a half we have the old property two.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
And a half still in fact. Prop two and a
half is still in effect, but it allows and has
allowed every year to increase and aidens will help me
out here, not necessarily to limit your property tax it
limits the tax levee that the town can cumulatively announce.
(19:24):
So let's say that that there's a property tax levee.
All the property tax in your community is one hundred
million dollars. That means that a year from now, even
with Prop two and a half, it can go up
two and a half percent, So it can go up
to one hundred and two and a half million dollars.
And someone's got to pick up that additional two and
(19:46):
a half million dollars, and in some cases it's gonna
be guys like.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
So here's the first thing. And the second thing is
a lot of these city and towns are used in
Chapter ninety money, which is eroads when you fixture roads
and stuff. Now I find out that a lot of
city in towns they can buy equipment through Chapter ninety.
That's like loaders, you know, trucks that you use in
the road. So instead of paving, they're buying all this
(20:13):
stuff without going to town meetings. And they're taking this
Chapter ninety money they used to go for one hundred
percent for roads and they use it to buy their
own equipment. You have to see somebody sitting in town.
They got the best equipment than the contractors have and
no one knows how to use it.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
So let's see. Let me see if Aidan wants to
weigh in on that two points that Paul has made.
I hope I haven't misled him on to the chapter
the prop two and a half situation, everybody thought, well
that my taxes can only go up two and a
half percent. It's the entire levee that the town or
the city actually can raise two and a half percent.
(20:51):
So that's number one. And what about his points about
the towns being able to buy the best equipment with
money free money from the state.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, I think on the first point you covered that great, Dan.
On the second, I don't know if I necessarily have
the expertise based off of the studies to answer that
particular question.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
So all right, fair enough, Paul, I assume you know
of what you speak.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
I do.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
That's why I brought it up.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
You brought it up, so you.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Brought it up with a lot of conviction. I don't
think my first answer probably satisfied you, but unfortunately that
is the truth.
Speaker 6 (21:36):
You know, And thank you Dan for having me on again.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Well, Paul, you keep calling the show, Okay, and enjoy
the summer on Nantaska. Thanks so much. Thank you. That's
a great one. All right, Joining us now is a
candidate for governor, Brian shortly, Brian, welcome back to Night's Side.
Thank you for checking in, Thank you for listening to
the program. Aiden en Wright is our guest. I know
(22:00):
you probably have some thoughts on what you've heard, but
you probably knew about this ahead of time. Go right ahead.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Well, thanks for having me on, Dan and hello Aiden.
I just wanted to say I think there's a lot
that we can do to solve the problem of people
leaving Massachusetts and businesses leaving Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
And I think it.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Starts with electing a new governor in November of twenty
twenty six. You know, as I listened to.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
The conversation, I'm sure you have a candidate in mind, Brian.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
I think we could use a businessman, a business builder
in the corner office. And when I listened to the conversation,
you know, we know why people in businesses are leaving Massachusetts.
It's because taxes are too high and electricity bills are
too high. Those are things a governor can effect on
day one. You know, a governor on day one could
cut all those state manded fees out of the utility bill,
(22:47):
could reduce the costs for business and individuals of utility bills,
and a governor could really go to go to work
on reducing taxes and getting state spending under control. Those
are things that I think, as you mentioned, we've seen
Republican governors in the past, you know, like Charlie Baker,
that Romney and Bill Well, and I think it's time
that we bring a Republican back to the corner office.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Well, for those who do not know, Brian is one
of two Republicans you and Mike Kneely are vuying for
the Republican nomination. I've had both of you on in
the last month or so. These studies that Pioneer has released.
They're really good studies if people could take the time
(23:31):
to read them, and it's tough to explain them Brian
on the air, because it's numbers and you don't have
the visual aspect on radio that you do have on television.
How much would you be relying upon if you're fortunate
enough to be elected governor on some of the work
that the Pioneer Institute does, particularly as it relates.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
To well aident pioneer, do incredible work. But I would
tell you there's a family behind every statistic. Every time
a company closes because they can't operate here, that's someone
losing a job. It's someone who can't put food on
the table, and often it's a young person leaving the state,
you know, And that means we've got parents like me,
I've got young kids. You know, got parents and grandparents
(24:14):
who are losing their loved ones, losing their kids and
their grandkids to other states. So I think behind these statistics,
it's really a story of our young people leaving. We've
got to keep our young people here, and it starts
with building a private sector economy that can grow in scale.
At the end of the day, the mark of a
successful state is a private sector economy that's growing. That
(24:34):
means people want to be here in businesses want.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
To be here.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
If you're if you're shedding private sector jobs, it means
you're not a good place to do business. And behind
those statistics, you know, are a lot of families that
are that are feeling the pain on companies closing, and
a lot of parents and grandparents that are seeing their
loved ones and their children in some cases moving to
other states. And I think we can turn all that
around with a much more business oriented approach to cutting taxes,
(24:59):
cutting feet, and getting our private sector grown again.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well, the report that really struck me in Again, I'm
a fairly I'm a numbers guy, but when Aiden points
out that since twenty twenty, as most other states have
recaptured the jobs that were lost as a result of
the pandemic, and a lot of those jobs were in
hospitality and as we know, but Massachusetts is now down
(25:25):
thirty thousand jobs. Those are thirty thousand taxpayers that are
not contributing to the to the tax base, and there's
only four states. I was stunned, and Aiden, I assume this.
I want to get you involved here as well. This
is a statistic which has to be stunning even to
(25:49):
Governor Healy to think that since twenty twenty, we're down
thirty thousand jobs and there's only three other states Vermont, Hawaii,
which I was impacted badly by tourism in Iowa, and
I have no idea why Iowa is involved in this,
but those are the only four states that are down
(26:09):
jobs since twenty twenty. And I'm stunned by that, Brian,
I assume you were aware of that.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
Well I am. I am stunned by it as well.
And I'll tell you another statistic, which Pioneer has done
a great job over the years tracking, is the amount
of income moving out of the state. The most recent
figure we saw on that, which is the twenty twenty
two number, is four billion dollars of income left the state.
That's an IRS statistic. More, heally ran on the largest
(26:39):
tax increase in state history in twenty twenty two, which
was the millionaire's tax, And since the day that millionaire
tax came in, we have an added a single private
sector job. And I expect when the numbers come out
for twenty twenty three, we will have seen again billions
of dollars of income leaving the state. Five hundred people
a week leaving the state. Those are very very real numbers,
(27:00):
and there's a family, there's a human being behind every
one of them. But I think these are major issues
that we need a new governor to really focus on
and get the state growing again.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
And by the way, not that this is the most importance,
but for those of you out there who were sports fans,
when I talked last hour with Kevin Paul DuPont of
The Boston World Great hockey writer. You know when a
Brad marsh On who's now playing for Florida looks at
the possibility of coming back to Massachusetts. All of these
(27:30):
great players in whether it's hockey, basketball, football, or baseball,
once they get to those earning years after've been in
the league for a few years, and the team then
has to give them the opportunity to go out in
the free market. All the Boston based teams are going
to be a tremendous disadvantage, particularly with a lot of
these states like Tennessee and Texas and Florida, which don't
(27:54):
have state income taxes. So you're going to say that
the same player that you're offering a ten million dollar
contract to, oh yeah, it's gonna cost you an extra
nine hundred thousand dollars to play in Massachusetts, where you
know you won't have to pay any of that if
you're playing in Texas or Tennessee or Florida, Mark my words,
(28:15):
that is gonna that's gonna come home and hurt. These
teams better continue to develop guys in the farm system
like the Red Sox are doing, who get to play
those first three or four years, you know, under a
very limited contract. Brian, You're always welcome here, you know that.
Thank you very much for listening tonight and joining the conversation.
(28:36):
Final comment for you, Brian, and I also want to
give Aidan a last quick comment. We'll take some more
phone calls Aidan and I will, but Brian, what's your
final word? And also I want to thank you.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
I'm a regular listener. It's a great show. And for
those that are is in my campaign, please check out
my website at Brian Shortsleeve dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Thank you all right, Brian, Thank you very much. Aidan.
I want to continue our conversation with callers. I am
concerned about this this report. I want to also give
people an opportunity. I assumed this will be in newspapers
tomorrow because I believe it's been released. Both of these
reports have been released today. Have you talked tonight with
(29:15):
either the Globe, of the Herald or any of the
other newspapers around the carm Wall.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah, so the report will be released tomorrow. I've also
talked with the Globe about it, so there should be
a piece in the in the in the business section.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
But yeah, okay, so they may either be in tomorrow's
paper or in Friday's paper. We'll take a quick break.
My guest is Aiden Enwright. He's with the Pioneer Institute.
We're talking about two studies that Pioneer has just released,
which shows one that Massachusetts over the last five years
has lost a lot of jobs and maybe those jobs
(29:56):
are not coming back or coming back anytime soon. At
a time, we're down about thirty thousand private sector jobs.
We are we are probably up in public sector jobs,
but down in private sector jobs. And also what is
called the the growth uh the of the state product
(30:18):
the GSP, as opposed that the GDP in Massachusetts is
falling backwards. Its growth is slowing down, which is reflective
of the loss of jobs. If you'd like to join
the conversation, I got wide open lines six, one, seven, two, five,
four ten, thirty, six one, seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty.
(30:40):
I know numbers are tough, but numbers really are important
because they have an impact. As Brian Shortsleeve said on
families and families are leaving Massachusetts. That does not argue
well for the future. Back with Aiden Enwright of the
Pioneer Institute and your calls or questions or it's coming
back right after.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
This Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
My guess is, aiden En Wright, let's get back to
the phone call. Let me go to Jim in the car. Jim,
you were next on Night Side with aiden enright goright ahead, Jim.
Speaker 7 (31:18):
Hi, I just wanted to say I really enjoyed your
conversation with.
Speaker 5 (31:24):
Gentlemen running for.
Speaker 7 (31:26):
The governor Republican nomination, and I would love to have
Charlie Baker a like person orned Rodney like person as
governor of the state of Massachusetts, because I think they
would be great for the economy. But Charlie Baker did
not run because he came out against the January sixth
(31:48):
riots and against Trunt's denial of the election. And that
is why we do not have Charlie Baker as the
governor right now.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
And Charlie Baker ran twice, was elected by times, and
he had a job offer for eleven million dollars from
the NCAA. I don't think that, Charle. I think Charlie
Baker felt that he had served as governor for two
terms eight years uh, and he was going to move on. Jim.
(32:16):
To be honest, with you. I I know that that
Baker was not a Trump guy. I got that, and
I don't think.
Speaker 7 (32:23):
That he did not. But I disagree. I mean, I
he from reporting, I heard he did not run because
he would not get the Republican nominations or Yeah, I gotta.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Be honest with you. I think that the Massachusetts Republican Party,
if they had had the opportunity, would have renominated Charlie Baker.
Speaker 7 (32:44):
That's the reporting.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
And I agree, Oh, fine, you know you you rely
on your reporters. Feel free to rely on your reporters.
I know Baker, I know him pretty well. And uh,
and I'm pretty confident that that eleven million dollar contract,
that annual contract for eleven million dollars was a lot
more than he was making as governor of Massachusetts, unless
(33:06):
you know, I think he had a right after having
served two terms to take a big paycheck. I got
to keep running. I'm not going to argue with the
gym over whether or not charge.
Speaker 7 (33:16):
I agree one thing. On the economy though, with the
funding that Trump is going to withhold from Harvard, it's
going to make the four billion in bost income or
high income jobs seemed like peanuts, and that was going
for cancer research.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Okay, well again, call me some night and we'll you
and I can just trash Trump. That's not my purpose tonight. Okay,
we can, you know, feel free to call me and
and and we can engage in a Trump trashth on
you and I thanks to appreciate the call. Okay, let's
keep rolling. You're going to go to Christopher and Hero. Christopher.
You got to be very quick. We got less than
a minute left, Christopher, go right ahead.
Speaker 5 (33:53):
Yeah, I just uh, Dan just wanted to say, you know,
first on caller, a long time listener, thank you. I'm
I'm in my forties.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I've been in the.
Speaker 5 (34:04):
I've been in the IT field for last eighteen years.
Was working for a biotech firm and ended up subsequently
being pushed out of the out of the company and
you know, for a managed service provider that was coming
in at a lot cheaper and with the way the
(34:25):
economy is right now, I've been out of the IT
field unfortunately for the last year, since since last April.
And yeah, it's just I'm seeing, you know, colleagues of
minor are also in the same boat. That's just it
seems like the you know, especially the IT field, I
think is over overly saturated. So I'm just not what
(34:47):
what did you do?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
What did you do in it? Specifically? Christopher?
Speaker 5 (34:52):
So I was handling. I was an IT manager, So
I was handling all of the infrastructure for the company
that I was working for, or so everything from deploying
of systems to managing users and.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Real quickly here, what I'm going to do is I
want to ask you to leave your phone number with Andrew. Sure,
what sort of a salary are you looking for?
Speaker 5 (35:16):
I you know I was in the eighty to ninety range,
was where I was at previously?
Speaker 2 (35:23):
And what's your education level?
Speaker 5 (35:27):
I have an associates in computer science and several several
certifications with Microsoft.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Leave leave your name. Leave your name and your phone number,
daytime phone number with Andrew. And if there's anyone out
there who would like to talk with you. You sound
like a great guy, well qualified, and they want to
call the station, we have your permission to pass your
name on.
Speaker 5 (35:50):
Yeah, definitely fair enough.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
You talked to Andrew. Leave your phone number and your
last name and a daytime phone number. Who knows, maybe
we can help Christopher get back employed in the private
You just don't know a and then Wright, thank you
for your time. Those of you who are calling, we're
a little late. We're going to go to a different topic,
a different guest right after the ten o'clock news. Wish
y'all called a little earlier. Aiden, please keep in touch.
(36:12):
Love what Pioneer does, and I love what you do.
And again, numbers are tough, but you do a great
job and I appreciate you taking the time tonight.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Aidan, Okay, Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
Dan.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Absolutely, we'll have you back when we get back on
talk with a Polster Suffolk poster Dave Paley Logus about
a poll that has shown us shown to us that
again Donald Trump is not particularly well liked in New
England voters New Hampshire specifically Massachusetts and Rhode Island. But
the Democrats aren't taking advantage of that situation. So I'm
(36:44):
hoping that Jim in the car is paying attention, particularly
to my guests, to coming up. Dave Paleologus
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