June 12, 2025 • 43 mins
We kicked off the program with four news stories we thought you'd like to know more about!
In this episode we chatted with:
Dr. Zoe Weiss, MD, Infectious Disease Physician and Director of the Microbiology Laboratory at Tufts Medical Center - Just as the price of eggs drops, we’re hit with a salmonella outbreak!
Stephen Harrigan, author of “Sorrowful Mysteries: The Shepherd Children of Fatima and the Fate of the Twentieth Century" - A powerful exploration of the three secrets of Fatima and a man’s journey grappling with his own faith.
Peter H. Kim, Professor of Management and Organization, USC Marshall School of Business, University of Southern California - Is America losing trust in one another? A 2019 Pew Research Center report on trust found that 71 percent of respondents thought interpersonal trust had waned over the last two decades.
Claire Kilcullen, Associate Director of Culture + Experience at Seaport Boston - The First Ever Sweatapalooza will be held on Saturday, June 21 – Put on that fitness attire and join thousands of others for this FREE event!
Now you can leave feedback as you listen to WBZ NewsRadio on the NEW FREE iHeart Radio app! Just click on the microphone icon in the app, and be sure to set WBZ NewsRadio as your #1 preset!
In this episode we chatted with:
Dr. Zoe Weiss, MD, Infectious Disease Physician and Director of the Microbiology Laboratory at Tufts Medical Center - Just as the price of eggs drops, we’re hit with a salmonella outbreak!
Stephen Harrigan, author of “Sorrowful Mysteries: The Shepherd Children of Fatima and the Fate of the Twentieth Century" - A powerful exploration of the three secrets of Fatima and a man’s journey grappling with his own faith.
Peter H. Kim, Professor of Management and Organization, USC Marshall School of Business, University of Southern California - Is America losing trust in one another? A 2019 Pew Research Center report on trust found that 71 percent of respondents thought interpersonal trust had waned over the last two decades.
Claire Kilcullen, Associate Director of Culture + Experience at Seaport Boston - The First Ever Sweatapalooza will be held on Saturday, June 21 – Put on that fitness attire and join thousands of others for this FREE event!
Now you can leave feedback as you listen to WBZ NewsRadio on the NEW FREE iHeart Radio app! Just click on the microphone icon in the app, and be sure to set WBZ NewsRadio as your #1 preset!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Night with Dan Ray. I'm going easy Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Thank you very much, Madison. As we start a Thursday night,
we are more than halfway through this week and the
warm weather has returned to New England, which is a
good thing. I'm sure in a few warm days we'll
obvious saying it are kind of cool off. But that's
the way we do it in New England. We complain
about the weather, whatever it is. My name is Dan Ray,
as Madison indicated, the host of Nightside with Dan Ray.
(00:27):
Dan Cantano is back in the control room tonight. Rob
Brooks a little bit under the weather. He'll be just fine,
And if we don't see him tomorrow night, I'm sure
he'll be back on Monday. Marita aka Lady Lightning comes
back on Monday as well, so we'll have everybody together
with us on Monday. But we are working through the week. Nonetheless,
we have an interesting set of topics coming up tonight.
(00:50):
We're going to talk about wrapping up the second trial
of Karen Reid. That will be actually the trial has
in effect make pleaded both the defense and the prosecution
of rest that we'll be talking with Attorney Boston longtime
criminal defense attorneying Phil Tracy at nine o'clock about his
comparisons to between the two trials, the first one a
(01:12):
year ago that ended in a hung jury in the
second one, which we'll have closing arguments tomorrow and may
get to the jury and there could be some jury
deliberations even tomorrow as early as tomorrow. Don't think we'll
have a decision really quickly, but I'll lead that question
to Phil Tracy. And then later on we're going to
talk about the immigration crisis and how do we get
to this point. It's a pretty interesting process we'll walk
(01:35):
through later on. But we have four very interesting guests
with topics of current relevance. We're going to start off
with doctor Zoey Weis Weiss. She is a doctor infectious
disease physician, director of the microbiology Laboratory at Toft's Medical Center,
which is great close to home here. Doctor Weiss, Welcome
to KNIGHT'SID. I'm not sure if we've had you on before.
(01:57):
I think not. How are you tonight?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I'm good, I have not been on before, and I'm
happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, I'm happy to have you here. We're going to
talk about salmonella. Hee not the sort of thing that
we want to talk about going into the weekend. But
eggs were really expensive for a long time. A lot
of people were not buying eggs. Now that the prices
have come down a little bit. Yikes. Salmonella thankfully so
(02:25):
far not in New England. But tell us what salmonilla
is and how we can avoid exposure to it.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah, So, salmonella is a specific type of bacteria causes
food born illness and it causes an intestinal infection. We
sometimes call it salmonellosis, and it's typically spread by contaminated
food water like contact with animals. We call it kind
of a fecal oral root. So you know, if there's
(02:56):
any kind of poor sanitation issues, we're any kind of
fecal matter can get into food sources and that can
contaminate the food and cause you know, salmonella infection. And
so there have been some cases of salmonell infection related
to eggs recently, as you were talking about, and then
(03:17):
earlier this month there was a cucumber or last month
a cucumber recall as well from salmonella.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
How do they isolate the source? Obviously, certain people show
up I assume with some symptoms, they must do some
sort of an analysis of the symptoms, and they they
were able to say, you.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Love this question, you what I love this question. So
what happens is that somebody comes goes to a hospital
or a healthcare center with diarrhea some sort of you know,
food borne illness, and they are able to detect the
salmonella in the stool, for example. Then they'll send it
to the Department of Public Health, and public health labs
(04:01):
will do genetic sequencing of the salmonella, and then they'll
upload it into a giant database that is overseen by
the CDC called pulse NEET, and the CDC will be
able to track in real time whether these salmonel cases
are related to each other. So based on how genetically
related the different organisms are, they're say, okay, like this
(04:22):
person in California and this person in Rhode Island both
had the same salmonella strain, and therefore there might be
you know, some sort of risk that there's an outbreak.
And then so they'll contact those people and try to
trace it back.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So they will try to determine a commonality. So not
only will they do the science, the lab work but
then they will reach out to these people and say, Okay,
where have you been, what have you been exposed to? Now,
in this particular instance, it's seventy people across seven states
have been sick and due to a salmonella outbreak. I
(04:57):
assume salmonella must be rare that when somehow, some way
the red flag goes up we got a salmonella case
here in Wyoming, they're able to enter that into computer
and find out if there are any other recent salmonella cases.
If seventy people have basically alerted public health authorities to
(05:21):
this outbreak, that's a fairly small number in comparison to
the population of these ten or so states Arizona, California, Illinois, Indiana, Nebraska,
New Mexico, divide of Washington, and Wyoming. That's a wide
swath of land of geography that they.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Well, I think it speaks exactly, yeah, exactly to the
fact that all hospitals in the United States are required
to send their salmonella samples to their Department of Public
Health LOBS, and all of these hospitals are connected to
the CDC. So there's a there's a there's an effort
to make sure that you know, anytime salmonella is isolated,
we're capturing it. And it's true that it's rarely picked up.
(06:02):
I mean someone has to be sick enough to go
to the hospital or to see the doctor. Lots of
people probably get salmonella, and for the most part, most
people who have a normal immune system otherwise healthy. You know,
they might have a few days of naze, vomiting, diarrhea,
but they wouldn't necessarily go to the doctor. So the
only people were really capturing are the ones who end
up getting you know, seen in the healthcare setting. So
(06:22):
it's probably the number of people affected are much larger,
but the ones who are capturing is you know, smaller population.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Now, I'm sure that the having studied Latin in high school,
that the word celmanella somehow comes from the Latin. I
think it's kind of unfair to salmon salmonella. Agree, it
looks to me pretty close to salmon. Again, how did
they How has this been a disease that's I assume
(06:48):
has been with us forever. This is not something that's
new on the disease chart, right.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
So, actually, the word salmonelle was named after a doctor
who's a veterinary pathologist named Daniel Elmer Salmon. I don't
know if you know Salmon or Simon or however. And
it's been known for a long time, nineteen hundreds. I
think many people have heard of the term typhoid, like
typhoid mary for example.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
History.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Yeah, and so salmonella. One of the species of salmonella
is Salmonella typhee, which causes typhoid fever, mostly in countries
that have like underdeveloped you know, water, clean water infrastructure.
And then the salmonella that we see here or something
usually species called salmonella and enterica is related. The disease
(07:37):
is not as severe, it's more self limiting, and but
they're related. So people have known about salmonella for a
long time.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
And I assume the commonality that they've established with all
of these people is they must have figured out that
all of them had purchased these eggs from this company,
which apparently sold their eggs wholesale to restaurants and retailers
(08:06):
in these states. I assume that's how they were able
to say this is an egg born correct.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And it's a lot of work. It takes a lot
of work to figure out what everybody was exposed to
and I and you know, and salmonella is relatively easy
because the onset of disease could be within hours to
a few days. So and the most common causes are
things like, you know, chicken, eggs, sometimes fresh vegetables, so
(08:34):
you can ask people, you know, a list of those things.
Some food borne illnesses, like there's one called listeria, can
actually be late in or kind of stay in your
body without causing disease for months before it becomes a problem.
And those people can take a really long time to
figure out what their original source is.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, well, it's great, it's great to know. I'm glad
that I know now that there was a doctor who
discovered this doctor Salmon. Is that is how we you
said he pronounced his name to him. So the Indians
had a backup for a baseman in the sixties, Chico
Simone as well, so his name was spelled the same way.
I thought it might have been named after him, but no,
(09:11):
but that's true. That's true. I have these sports names
in the back of my head. You can look it up.
Chico Simone s a L M O. N. Kind of
a backup for a spaseman. Not a great player, but
played in the major leagues. Doctor wise, you're a major
leaguer as far as I am concerned. I really love
your enthusiasm for this job. But I love the way
that you sort of worked through the minefield of explanation
(09:33):
of things so that nobody got too grossed out. So
thank you yes, well yeah, no, absolutely, but thank you
very much. You were really great and I hope we
can get your back. And by the way, just to
pin it, this was a California based egg distributor and
I guess the name of according to the US Center
(09:57):
for Disease Control. I'm just clicking on it here and
seeing if the uh if the company uh in August
sixth Egg Company, August Egg Company. Okay, August egg Company.
They were the source. So if you can figure out
if your eggs are from the August Egg Company, and
I have no idea how you.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Do that, they get told under other brand names like
Clover First Street Organics, market Side, Sun Harvest, So you
really have to look and see, you know, is your
is this a the wider distributor August egg Company?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Well? You know something again, you you you just even
answered questions. I wasn't smart enough to ask that. I'm impressed.
Doctor Zoe Weiss, infectious disease physician, director of the Microbiology
Laboratory at Tufts Medical Center. I really enjoyed what I
thought was not going to be an enjoyable conversation. Thanks
so much for your time tonight. Okay, thank you, my pleasure. Thanks,
(10:53):
good night. Well we get back when we talk with
an author whose name is Stephen Harrigan. He's author of
a book called Sorrowful Mysteries, The Shepherd Children of Fatima
and the Fate of the twentieth Century. It's going to
be an interesting conversation. I think what I've read, I
haven't read the book. I think he's pretty skeptical about
(11:14):
all of this. There's a lot of people have a
right to be I'm someone who is as a person
of faith, wants to believe, and given a choice, I
give faith the benefit of the doubt. We'll have a
good conversation with Steve and Harrigan coming back on night
Side right after this quick break.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I'm delighted to introduce Stephen Harrigan. He's the author of
a book called Sorrowful Mysteries, The Shepherd Children of Fatima
and the fate of the twentieth century. The book is
described as a powerful exploit exploration of the three Secrets
of Fatima and a man's journey grappling with his own faith.
Stephen Harrigan, Welcome to aide. How are you.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
Thanks, Dan, It's great to be here.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I think we're both baby boomers, and I suspect we
learned of our Lady of Fatima, both in the same
way attending Catholic schools. For me, it was here in
Massachusetts in elementary school in the late nineteen fifties. You
were doing this in Texas at that time. It was
certainly something that intrigued me. I know it has intrigued
(12:27):
the world. You've written a book. It sounds to me
as if you're pretty skeptical of this.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
Explain to us, well, I mean that's not the main reason.
That's not my main reason in telling the story of Adama.
I'm skeptical. I mean, you know, everybody has their own
degree of faith and how they what they believe or
what they don't believe. But for me, the most powerful
(12:52):
impulse to write this story for me was just because
it's a great story. It's the story of these three
little children who are in nineteen seventeen and Fatima Portugal
at the you know, at the hinge moment of the
twentieth century, we have an era of revolutions right at
the beginning of the of the flu pandemic of nineteen eighteen,
(13:15):
which killed two of the children. It's the story of
you know, it's the story of faith, It's the story
of imagination and politics and all the kind of main
events of the twentieth century are sort of this is
a lens through which you could look at them and
how faith and the kind of political transitions and turmoil
(13:39):
of the twentieth century, you know, changed everybody. So I
came into it as a former practicing Catholic. Now I'm
kind of like just I'm somebody who's never going to
get the Catholicism out of my system and don't really
want to. But it's not a devout book. But it's
(13:59):
not a debugging book either.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Okay. Yeah. One of the things that I remembered about
learning about Fatima, and you know much more about this
than I do, so let me let me set that out.
Your researched it done in book et cetera. I thought
that it's some point I was told or I learned,
(14:26):
that World War Two started on December seventh, which was
either a Holy Day of obligation or close to a
Holy Day of obligation December seventh, and then it ended
on August fifteenth, nineteen forty five, which was in the
Catholic Church. I think it's the Feast of the Assumption.
(14:48):
If I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
Those I can't answer. I can't speak to that, really,
I do can. I can hear you that World War
two is bound up in the in the in the
story of Fatimah.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Tell us how that was what I was I was
struggling with my question that explain to us. Stephen, go
right ahead.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
I hadn't heard those those dates, but I'll have to
check it, because that actually is pretty interesting. But you
know the in nineteen seventeen, on May thirteenth, nineteen seventeen,
these three children, Lucia Santo's her cousins Francisco and Jacinta Marto,
said that they saw the Virgin Mary in this field
in Portugal. And one of the things that the Virgin
(15:35):
Mary said was, you know this this is during World
War one, and she said that and worst war will
come if people don't pray the Rosary and pray and
specifically for the conversion of Russia to Christianity, and so,
you know, world War two did come. People believe some
(15:57):
people believe that the Virgin Mary predicted that at I mean,
there's all sorts of you could get into, way into
the weeds about exactly what date World War one world
War two started, and who was pope then, and whether
her prophecies were accurate or not. But it certainly is
true that both World War One and World War Two
(16:17):
were important parts of the of the Fatima story. And
you know, there was a you probably grew up like me,
if it sounds like we had some of the same
experiences at the same age. You probably heard about the
Fatima Letter or the Third Secret of Fatima.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, and I never figured out what that was.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
No, Yeah, I mean a lot of people were very
puzzled by it and what it was was. And this
is partly what drove me to write the book, because
we were these little kids in Catholic school in the
late nineteen fifties and we were told that that Sister
Lucia then had written down prophecy that was supposed to
(17:01):
be opened in nineteen sixty that would tell the fate
of the world. And remember this was right at the
height of the Cold War, when people were terrified. We
were all doing duck and cover exercise.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Under the desk, remembered well.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
And so in our school, the nun who was teaching us,
we asked her, you know, nineteen sixty finally came and
we were desperate to know what this letter said. And
she told us, well, the Pope took it out of
the envelope, read it, said it was too horrible for
anybody to read, and put it back in the envelope
and sent it away into the archives of the Vatican.
(17:38):
So the whole world was disappointed. Would say it would
be the wrong term. The whole world was sort of
traumatized already by what was happening, and then this information
that we couldn't know the third secret or the contents
of the fathom the letter really terrified it.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Well, you know the funny thing about it is you
compare them to, for example, the Kennedy files, or the
Epstein files, or the Robert F. Kennedy assassination files of
the Martin Luther King. A lot of us feel there's
war to all of those that have never that's never
gotten out. It seems as if not only did the
Church disappoint, but also the government's disappoint. Just coming back
(18:21):
to the Catholic Holy Days of obligation. World War two,
I mean, obviously started in September one, nineteen thirty nine,
in Germany and Russian invaded Poland. But US involvement started
in December. And if I'm not mistaken, well I'm not mistaken.
Pearl Harbor occurred on a Sunday, and it may have
(18:42):
been that we declared war the following day, which happens
to be a holy day in the Catholic Church, the
Maaculal Conception. And then it did end with MacArthur accepting
the signatures of the japan Niece on the deck of
the USS Missouri, which was August fifteenth, which is in
(19:05):
fact the Assumption in the Catholic Church. So I think
that those days starting at the beginning of the end.
Maybe there was misinformation, but I think that is where
World War II got wrapped up in all of this.
And also August in twenty seventeen, the Russian Revolution was starting.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Yeah, the Russian Revolution. Also a Portuguese revolution had started.
You know several years earlier which was very similar in
which a secular government was taking over basically a Catholic country,
and so there were all sorts of political turmoil going on,
which I think helped kind of create the interest in
(19:48):
Fatima at the beginning.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, it's and again I'm still interested, you know, all
of In all of this, I sort of leave it
to the concept of faith either you you know, have
a level of faith that allows you to say, well,
something happened. I thought that there were once the apparitions
(20:15):
occurred on those success of thirteen days of the month,
that the first two or three occurred just with these
children coming back and telling the stories to their friends.
But by October thirteenth, was there not a lot of
people who saw some stuff in the sky.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
Absolutely. On October thirteenth, nineteen seventeen, which was the sixth apparition,
the Virgin appeared and promised she would come back every
on the thirteenth of every month for six months. And
she promised to do it to promise Lucia. And we
all know all this comes from Lucia Santos. You know,
(20:54):
she's the one who wrote down these crossicles and these memoirs.
And so she said that the Virgin told her that
she would perform the miracle so that all would believe
on that day. So on that day, you know, there
was this field where where the Santo's families and the
Marto families were grazing their sheep. They had been trampled
into mud, you know, months before because of all the tourists,
(21:16):
all the people came just to see what was going on.
So they were all people say that it's hard to
know exactly how many people were there. Possibly as many
as seventy thousand, possibly even more had come to see.
They were expecting a miracle, and it was pouring down rain.
You know, the mud was like ankle deep. Everybody was
(21:38):
soaked to the bone. And all at once the sky cleared,
and you know how the sky gets really after a rainstorm
suddenly cleared, the sky can look really sort of luminous
and mysterious. I think that happened there and then, And
remember Lucia and and and her two cousin and so
(22:00):
were the only people who could see the apparition. Nobody
else COULDRCT so they had to take Lucia's the children's
word for it. And Lucia said look at the sky,
and at least seventy thousand people looked up at the sky,
and what they saw, or what many of them say
they saw, was this atmospheric miracle, as it's been termed,
(22:23):
where the sun seemed to dance in the sky and
drop drop toward the ground and scatter all these sort
of prismatic colors all over everything. And that was that's
called the miracle of the Sun. And you can argue
it any way you want, you know, depending on your
level of faith or your level of pragmatic you know, interpretation.
(22:45):
But something happened that day, and you know it was
certainly atmospheric. And you know, so there are people who
say that it was a ufo or people who say
it was a SunDog or a peer heelium and all
these kind of atmospheric effects, but clearly something did happen,
and that kind of cemented the reverence and the excitement
(23:09):
that people felt toward toward this place.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Wow, fascinating. Stephen Harrigan, the book is Sorrowful Mysteries, The Shepherd,
Children of Fatima and the Fate of the twentieth century.
If people have listened to this interview, and I hope
you posted on your website. I think a lot of
people will be sufficiently intrigued that they will want to
buy this book.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
And thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah. And I was just going to say, is it's
best I assume in this day and age, just go
to Amazon and typing your name Stephen Harrigan h A
W R I G A N spells Harrogan Sorrowfulness, Shepherd.
I'm sure you've heard that song your entire life, The Shepherd,
Children of Fatima and the Fate of the twentieth Century.
(23:59):
I'm more intrigued, and I'll be getting the book, and
I'm sure many of my audience will as well. And
I thought this was a great interview. I was ready
to try to debate you on this, but you have
made a really marvelous presentation that is a reportorial and
journalistic and I appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
And we can debate some other time after you read
the book. Let's let's talk, which sounds great.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Al right, Steven Eric, Are you still hanging out in
Texas or No, you don't have a Texas accent.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
No, but kind of. I've been here most of my life,
so it's about one hundred and twenty degrees.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
It's kind of cool night down in Texas. Then. Okay,
Steven enjoyed talking with you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (24:44):
Okay, Dan, great to talk to you very well.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
All Right, we have the news coming up, and right
after that we're going to talk with Professor Peter kim I.
We'll be talking about why Americans are losing trust in
each other. I think that's going to be intriguing. Do
stay with us. If you haven't gotten the new and
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(25:10):
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(25:31):
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the iHeart. The new and improved. iHeart app back on
Nightside run a little bit late right after this.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's NewsRadio.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Welcome back. Joining us is a professor Peter Kim. He's
a professor of management and organization and don't we need
those at the USC Marshall School of Business, University of
Southern California. Go Trojans the author of a book How
Trust Works, The Science of Relationships are Built, Broken and Repaired.
This book has been out for a year or two,
(26:21):
but I think it's something we might like to take
a look at. Professor Kim. Welcome to Night sid How
are you?
Speaker 6 (26:29):
Thank you Dan. I'm doing great. It's great to s
on the show with you.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Well, thank you very much. Always great to have someone
from USC. So America is losing trust in one another.
According to a Pew Research Center report found that seventy
one percent of respondents thought interpersonal trust confidence in their
fellow citizens has waned over the last two decades. It's
(27:00):
we're dealing with losing trust. To find what you think
the Pew Research study actually quantified, I'm confused by that.
Speaker 6 (27:13):
Well, I think it's not just the Pew Research Center.
It's a variety of surveys that have measured the level
of trust not only in one another, but in our institutions,
the government, financial institutions, almost every single one has found
that those levels of trust has declined. And if we
(27:39):
want to sort of agree on a simple definition of trust,
it's our willingness to make ourselves vulnerable in situations involving risk, right,
It's a psychological inclination to do that, and we're just
less willing to do that nowadays.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Okay, so I okay, So my theory, and I'd love
to know what you think, is that it all comes
back to the computers that we have. All of us
are spending me included, too much time on my computer,
less time in face to face personal relationships. And most
of the things that I worry about are people hacking
(28:18):
my computer, hacking my bank accounts, stealing my identities, all
the things that have now come to our door because
of computers and Mark Zuckerberg. So have I encapsulated the
entire cause in about thirty seconds or my way off.
Speaker 6 (28:38):
Mark, Well, I agree that that's one of the major
factors that's led to the decline in trust, and so
that really gets to the fact that our trust in
others is based on what we know about them and
our perceptions of them as part of our group or
(29:01):
parts of other groups. And I think one of the
big things that the Internet has done has made it
very easy to identify whatever particular subgroups that we most
identify with and to differentiate back group from everything else
in the world. And there's a lot of everything else
(29:21):
in the world, and you know, those people those groups
are seen as outsiders, as enemies, as not you know,
on our side, and we have such a shallow perception
of them. We don't really see them as individuals, and
that keeps us from learning enough about them to see
(29:45):
them as human beings, albeit you know, faulty in many ways,
that they may have some reasons for us to trust them.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
So are you saying that most of us trust our
inner circle. We trust the people who we can count
on our two hands, who are our true friends, and
maybe we trust some of our acquaintances. But people who
we don't know we have an inherent suspicion of. I
think that's what you just said. I want to make
sure I understand it.
Speaker 6 (30:17):
I think that's right. Yeah, And so the people that
are you know, it really gets to the very tribal,
clan like side of us, right, that primitive brain. We
want we want to find others that will be there
for us, and you know, so our friends, our family,
(30:39):
those that are close to us we see as those people.
And then on the internet you can identify other groups
that share those values that you might have, and it's
easy to differentiate those from the people outside that group.
One big factor that, one big thing that this does
(31:00):
is that it creates a motivation to see the actions
of those in our group and those outside our group differently.
So if for some you know, people will inevitably let
us down, but if it's our friends or family, then
we will see those failures as mistakes. Right, they didn't
mean to hurt us part of our group people. Yeah,
(31:26):
they might have forgotten. They're just not very good at
this sort of thing and so on. Right, So we
come up with these reasons, and we're motivated to come
up with those reasons in order to maintain those close
relationships with those people. But for those that are outside
of that group, we don't have those motivations. So it's
easy to say that, oh that the exact same failures
(31:48):
they're the result of them trying to take advantage of us,
of them lacking morals and so on, and so that
that difference in explanation for they've even this exact same
failure can lead to much more serious problems.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, you ascribe, you ascribe malign intent to those who
you do not have close within your inner circle. Is
I think what you're saying. So we could talk for
hours on this. We could talk about people who have
gone to computers and they have gotten into their political silos.
They only have friends with whom they agree politically. They
(32:27):
only listen to programs with which they agree politically, which
has further again separated us into this tribe, that tribe,
the red tribe or the blue tribe. What can we
do in you know, forty five seconds or so, And
I'm sure that you've asked, but this, as before, it
probably takes a lot more than forty five seconds. What
(32:48):
can individuals, what can society do to to basically turn
this trend around? Because it's it's a trend which is
troubling for me, and I think troubling for most people.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
Well, I think the first step is to move beyond
the superficial caricature and see these people for who they
are and realize that these attributions that we're making that
they're not necessarily correct, right, And so we have this
(33:22):
instinctive tendency to say this is a lack of integrity.
You know, they intended to take advantage of us, But
is that really true? And so the first step for
us is to recognize that we have this bias and
the kind of attribution we're making for the people outside
(33:44):
our groups, and how that may not necessarily be correct.
And so that would be the first step to get
us to realize that those attributions may not be correct
and to do the investigation necessary with an open mind
to understand why things might have happened. Because most most failures,
(34:07):
most violations of trust are multiply determined, right, There are
lots of things that can lead to a failure, and
so we need to be more open to those those
reasons and too, you know, and we may still ultimately
determine that they had you know, their various intent and
so on, but not jumping to the gun. Okay, it's
(34:29):
a very critical star.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Professor kim let me mention. The book available I assume
at Amazon, How trust Works, The Science of Relationships Are Built,
Broken and Repaired. That is the book that I hope
people get a chance to spend some time with. I
appreciate you having spent some time with us tonight. Thank
(34:51):
you very much, professor, and go Trojans.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
It's a pleasure. Thank you. Then it's good jeving me.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Thank you, Thank you. Professor Peter Kim. The book How
Trust Works, The Science of Relationships Are Built, Broken and Repaired.
We'll be back on Nightside and we're going to introduce
you to an event that has never happened before. It's
called Sweat a Palooser. We'll explain.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Now it's not often that here on Nightside we can
introduce you to an event that has never happened before.
I mean, the marathon has been running around here for
what one hundred and twenty five years. However, you can
go to the inaugural event of the sweat Apaloosa on Saturday,
June twenty first, and here to explain exactly what we'll
(35:43):
transpire at the first ever Sweat a Paloosa is Claric Culin.
She's the Associate director of Culture and Experience at Seaport Boston.
You know, Claire, I didn't even realize Seaport Boston had
an associate director of Culture and Experience. That sounds like
a pretty fun job up.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
Oh yeah, it's very fun. It's also fun coming up
with the names of things like Sweat of Palooza. It's
a real catchy one that we came up with.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Well, I'll tell you, I hope you didn't like spend
hours on that one, because I could have come up
with that one pretty clear, pretty quickly, A swell.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
Right off the tongue too.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Well, yeah, but what I'm saying you put anything in
front of a bowling palooza, a golfing palooser. But I'm
only teasing you. So the Sweat of Palooza. Tell us
what it is. First of all, I think the name
describes it, but drilled down a little bit for us.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
Oh, of course. Well, it's obviously a palooza, and it's
our celebration of ten years of Seaport Sweat, which is
the workout series that we host in Seaport right on
Seaport Common. And ten years is a pretty long time
to be running a workout series, so we're really excited
and happy for the community that we formed along all
those ten yures, so we wanted to post a palooza
to celebrate. So we've got three amazing workout classes. We're
(36:59):
bringing back some really popular instructors like Ticket by Eliza,
Eliza Sharrazzi, who's actually been with us all ten years.
We've got a yoga class with Go to Bermuda where
an instructor has flown in from Bermuda to teach it.
And then bron Volney also will be teaching broncor boot Camp.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
So now I don't spend a lot of time down
the seaport, okay, because it's tough to get in and
tough to get out. As Yogi Berra once said, no
wonder nobody comes to this place. It's too crowded. But
for those who live down there and who are seaport denizens,
what have you been doing? Ten years of outdoor fitness classes?
(37:39):
Is that what we're talking about, the tradition.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Years of out door Ten years of outdoor fitness classes
Monday through Thursday twice today we have five thirty and
six thirty and Saturdays at ten at ten am. So really,
if you live in the seaport, or go to the seaport.
You can just cancel your gym membership for the entire
summer because we run May through September.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Okay, so you got to renew the membership from October
through April. Okay, that's good. That cuts the thing down. Now.
This is going to be on Saturday, June twenty first,
which is not this Saturday. It's a week from Saturday,
the first day of summer, perfectly timed, and the event
goes from eleven in the morning until one and round
(38:23):
the ten in the morning until one in the afternoon.
For folks who don't normally hang in the seaport, we're
in the seaport. Will this event be held.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Yeah. So it's right at eighty five Northern Alve. We
have a beautiful green space called Seaport Common. It's right
next to the Current, which is our pop up shops.
If you're familiar with Cisco Brewers, it's just a block
down from there, so it's kind of like the central
hub of Seaport. And there's tons to do after too.
You can take one class, you can take all three.
We've got green juices that go to Bermuda will also
(38:57):
be offering our sponsor as General Brigham Health Plan will
be giving out water and we'll have a bunch of
amazing other giveaways as well, and then you can take
one class or take three, grab a beer from Cisco
after and have a beautiful seaport day.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Well that's the seaport's doing well, right. I assume every
time I do go down there, it's it's busy, busy, busy.
It's it's certainly a far cry from what I knew
as the seaport. It was Anthony's and Jimmy's restaurants pretty much.
Not much.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
Oh yeah, we got We've got many more than that. Now.
We just opened up in Island Creek Oyster Bar, which
is which is very amazing. So you can also go
eat some caveat after workout class if you want to,
which is okay, an amazing idea.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
If you ask me, how's the how's the tea service
out to seaport. I'm not someone who rides the tea
very much, but if I was going out there, and
if I wanted to go out there and take the
tea in my sweats, what's what's the deal there?
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Yeah, you can take the Red Line just the South
station or Onnyline that goes to South Station and walk
across the bridge and then take the Summer Street steps
right down into Seaport. Or you can take the Silver Line,
which is what I did every day for many many
years when I commuted. Now I'm on the Commuter Rail,
so I just walk from South Station, so super accessible.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Well that's great, And the seaport is doing well? Is there?
Has most of the seaport at this point been built out?
I mean, I know that they're going to be renaming
the convention Center the Thomas M. Menino Convention Center, which
I think is a great honor and well deserved for
Mayor Minino and his family. But has is the seaport,
(40:40):
which I think very much was his dream? Has? I
mean how much? How more stuff can you put out there?
I mean he got hotels, great hotels, You've got great restaurants.
You know, you have the Ray Flynn Pavilion out there
with the ships coming in? Is it? Is it pretty much?
(41:00):
Are there still things that are going to be new
a year or two or three years from now?
Speaker 4 (41:07):
We can always fit something more. We've always got something
new opening and something more to build.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
So you build a lead bridge to Ireland or having
at this point.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Yeah, no, that one might take a couple of years,
but you're always opening something new. The current the pop
up shops transition every.
Speaker 6 (41:26):
Couple of months.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
We've always got the holiday market every winter that gets
built and then unbuilt, which feels like a miracle. So
there's always something new happening.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
It was a big ice cream place I think that
we previewed a year ago down there. I forget the
name of it, but they were really good.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
Is at the Museum of ice Cream?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yes, yes, how they do it?
Speaker 4 (41:46):
Oh they're doing great. Yeah, it's great. Kids slide right
down the slide into a pool of sprinkles, so there's
there's ice cream to eat and then also sprinkles to
play and those sprinkles.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Are not used later in the day on ice cream codes.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
Obviously, I'm definitely not good.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Just to be sure, Just to be sure anyway, Claire
kill Colin, thank you very much. Claire lovely to talk
with the Associate Director of Culture and Experience at Seaport Boston.
It's the sweat of Paloozer. Not this Saturday, nine days
from now. On Saturday June twenty first, from ten to
fifteen until one o'clock, it'll be a great day and
(42:24):
you'll be able to eat your way. After you lose
a few pounds, you can just have all sorts of
goodies in the seaport. Thanks very much, Claire, appreciate it
very much. I was in the hometown of your family,
kill Colin Island not too long ago.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
Oh wow, yeah, that is the hometown in my family.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yes, it's lovely hometown. By the way, thanks so much.
Thanks much. When we get back, thanks Claire. When we
get back, right after the nine o'clock news, is going
to be talking with Boston criminal defense attorney Phil Tracy.
The trial, the second trial of Karen Reid is over.
Opening arguments, or rather closing arguments tomorrow are from both
(43:03):
the prosecution and the defense, and then it gets to
the jury. And once the jury has it, they may
be doing some deliberations. They could stay as late as
five or five thirty tomorrow. They're supposed to start at
eight thirty nine o'clock. I think the closing arguments will
be finished by noon. There could be some activity tomorrow.
We'll preview it with Phil Tracy right after the nine
(43:25):
o'clock news
It's Night with Dan Ray. I'm going easy Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Thank you very much, Madison. As we start a Thursday night,
we are more than halfway through this week and the
warm weather has returned to New England, which is a
good thing. I'm sure in a few warm days we'll
obvious saying it are kind of cool off. But that's
the way we do it in New England. We complain
about the weather, whatever it is. My name is Dan Ray,
as Madison indicated, the host of Nightside with Dan Ray.
(00:27):
Dan Cantano is back in the control room tonight. Rob
Brooks a little bit under the weather. He'll be just fine,
And if we don't see him tomorrow night, I'm sure
he'll be back on Monday. Marita aka Lady Lightning comes
back on Monday as well, so we'll have everybody together
with us on Monday. But we are working through the week. Nonetheless,
we have an interesting set of topics coming up tonight.
(00:50):
We're going to talk about wrapping up the second trial
of Karen Reid. That will be actually the trial has
in effect make pleaded both the defense and the prosecution
of rest that we'll be talking with Attorney Boston longtime
criminal defense attorneying Phil Tracy at nine o'clock about his
comparisons to between the two trials, the first one a
(01:12):
year ago that ended in a hung jury in the
second one, which we'll have closing arguments tomorrow and may
get to the jury and there could be some jury
deliberations even tomorrow as early as tomorrow. Don't think we'll
have a decision really quickly, but I'll lead that question
to Phil Tracy. And then later on we're going to
talk about the immigration crisis and how do we get
to this point. It's a pretty interesting process we'll walk
(01:35):
through later on. But we have four very interesting guests
with topics of current relevance. We're going to start off
with doctor Zoey Weis Weiss. She is a doctor infectious
disease physician, director of the microbiology Laboratory at Toft's Medical Center,
which is great close to home here. Doctor Weiss, Welcome
to KNIGHT'SID. I'm not sure if we've had you on before.
(01:57):
I think not. How are you tonight?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I'm good, I have not been on before, and I'm
happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, I'm happy to have you here. We're going to
talk about salmonella. Hee not the sort of thing that
we want to talk about going into the weekend. But
eggs were really expensive for a long time. A lot
of people were not buying eggs. Now that the prices
have come down a little bit. Yikes. Salmonella thankfully so
(02:25):
far not in New England. But tell us what salmonilla
is and how we can avoid exposure to it.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah, So, salmonella is a specific type of bacteria causes
food born illness and it causes an intestinal infection. We
sometimes call it salmonellosis, and it's typically spread by contaminated
food water like contact with animals. We call it kind
of a fecal oral root. So you know, if there's
(02:56):
any kind of poor sanitation issues, we're any kind of
fecal matter can get into food sources and that can
contaminate the food and cause you know, salmonella infection. And
so there have been some cases of salmonell infection related
to eggs recently, as you were talking about, and then
(03:17):
earlier this month there was a cucumber or last month
a cucumber recall as well from salmonella.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
How do they isolate the source? Obviously, certain people show
up I assume with some symptoms, they must do some
sort of an analysis of the symptoms, and they they
were able to say, you.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Love this question, you what I love this question. So
what happens is that somebody comes goes to a hospital
or a healthcare center with diarrhea some sort of you know,
food borne illness, and they are able to detect the
salmonella in the stool, for example. Then they'll send it
to the Department of Public Health, and public health labs
(04:01):
will do genetic sequencing of the salmonella, and then they'll
upload it into a giant database that is overseen by
the CDC called pulse NEET, and the CDC will be
able to track in real time whether these salmonel cases
are related to each other. So based on how genetically
related the different organisms are, they're say, okay, like this
(04:22):
person in California and this person in Rhode Island both
had the same salmonella strain, and therefore there might be
you know, some sort of risk that there's an outbreak.
And then so they'll contact those people and try to
trace it back.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So they will try to determine a commonality. So not
only will they do the science, the lab work but
then they will reach out to these people and say, Okay,
where have you been, what have you been exposed to? Now,
in this particular instance, it's seventy people across seven states
have been sick and due to a salmonella outbreak. I
(04:57):
assume salmonella must be rare that when somehow, some way
the red flag goes up we got a salmonella case
here in Wyoming, they're able to enter that into computer
and find out if there are any other recent salmonella cases.
If seventy people have basically alerted public health authorities to
(05:21):
this outbreak, that's a fairly small number in comparison to
the population of these ten or so states Arizona, California, Illinois, Indiana, Nebraska,
New Mexico, divide of Washington, and Wyoming. That's a wide
swath of land of geography that they.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Well, I think it speaks exactly, yeah, exactly to the
fact that all hospitals in the United States are required
to send their salmonella samples to their Department of Public
Health LOBS, and all of these hospitals are connected to
the CDC. So there's a there's a there's an effort
to make sure that you know, anytime salmonella is isolated,
we're capturing it. And it's true that it's rarely picked up.
(06:02):
I mean someone has to be sick enough to go
to the hospital or to see the doctor. Lots of
people probably get salmonella, and for the most part, most
people who have a normal immune system otherwise healthy. You know,
they might have a few days of naze, vomiting, diarrhea,
but they wouldn't necessarily go to the doctor. So the
only people were really capturing are the ones who end
up getting you know, seen in the healthcare setting. So
(06:22):
it's probably the number of people affected are much larger,
but the ones who are capturing is you know, smaller population.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Now, I'm sure that the having studied Latin in high school,
that the word celmanella somehow comes from the Latin. I
think it's kind of unfair to salmon salmonella. Agree, it
looks to me pretty close to salmon. Again, how did
they How has this been a disease that's I assume
(06:48):
has been with us forever. This is not something that's
new on the disease chart, right.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
So, actually, the word salmonelle was named after a doctor
who's a veterinary pathologist named Daniel Elmer Salmon. I don't
know if you know Salmon or Simon or however. And
it's been known for a long time, nineteen hundreds. I
think many people have heard of the term typhoid, like
typhoid mary for example.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
History.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Yeah, and so salmonella. One of the species of salmonella
is Salmonella typhee, which causes typhoid fever, mostly in countries
that have like underdeveloped you know, water, clean water infrastructure.
And then the salmonella that we see here or something
usually species called salmonella and enterica is related. The disease
(07:37):
is not as severe, it's more self limiting, and but
they're related. So people have known about salmonella for a
long time.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
And I assume the commonality that they've established with all
of these people is they must have figured out that
all of them had purchased these eggs from this company,
which apparently sold their eggs wholesale to restaurants and retailers
(08:06):
in these states. I assume that's how they were able
to say this is an egg born correct.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And it's a lot of work. It takes a lot
of work to figure out what everybody was exposed to
and I and you know, and salmonella is relatively easy
because the onset of disease could be within hours to
a few days. So and the most common causes are
things like, you know, chicken, eggs, sometimes fresh vegetables, so
(08:34):
you can ask people, you know, a list of those things.
Some food borne illnesses, like there's one called listeria, can
actually be late in or kind of stay in your
body without causing disease for months before it becomes a problem.
And those people can take a really long time to
figure out what their original source is.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, well, it's great, it's great to know. I'm glad
that I know now that there was a doctor who
discovered this doctor Salmon. Is that is how we you
said he pronounced his name to him. So the Indians
had a backup for a baseman in the sixties, Chico
Simone as well, so his name was spelled the same way.
I thought it might have been named after him, but no,
(09:11):
but that's true. That's true. I have these sports names
in the back of my head. You can look it up.
Chico Simone s a L M O. N. Kind of
a backup for a spaseman. Not a great player, but
played in the major leagues. Doctor wise, you're a major
leaguer as far as I am concerned. I really love
your enthusiasm for this job. But I love the way
that you sort of worked through the minefield of explanation
(09:33):
of things so that nobody got too grossed out. So
thank you yes, well yeah, no, absolutely, but thank you
very much. You were really great and I hope we
can get your back. And by the way, just to
pin it, this was a California based egg distributor and
I guess the name of according to the US Center
(09:57):
for Disease Control. I'm just clicking on it here and
seeing if the uh if the company uh in August
sixth Egg Company, August Egg Company. Okay, August egg Company.
They were the source. So if you can figure out
if your eggs are from the August Egg Company, and
I have no idea how you.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Do that, they get told under other brand names like
Clover First Street Organics, market Side, Sun Harvest, So you
really have to look and see, you know, is your
is this a the wider distributor August egg Company?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Well? You know something again, you you you just even
answered questions. I wasn't smart enough to ask that. I'm impressed.
Doctor Zoe Weiss, infectious disease physician, director of the Microbiology
Laboratory at Tufts Medical Center. I really enjoyed what I
thought was not going to be an enjoyable conversation. Thanks
so much for your time tonight. Okay, thank you, my pleasure. Thanks,
(10:53):
good night. Well we get back when we talk with
an author whose name is Stephen Harrigan. He's author of
a book called Sorrowful Mysteries, The Shepherd Children of Fatima
and the Fate of the twentieth Century. It's going to
be an interesting conversation. I think what I've read, I
haven't read the book. I think he's pretty skeptical about
(11:14):
all of this. There's a lot of people have a
right to be I'm someone who is as a person
of faith, wants to believe, and given a choice, I
give faith the benefit of the doubt. We'll have a
good conversation with Steve and Harrigan coming back on night
Side right after this quick break.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I'm delighted to introduce Stephen Harrigan. He's the author of
a book called Sorrowful Mysteries, The Shepherd Children of Fatima
and the fate of the twentieth century. The book is
described as a powerful exploit exploration of the three Secrets
of Fatima and a man's journey grappling with his own faith.
Stephen Harrigan, Welcome to aide. How are you.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
Thanks, Dan, It's great to be here.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
I think we're both baby boomers, and I suspect we
learned of our Lady of Fatima, both in the same
way attending Catholic schools. For me, it was here in
Massachusetts in elementary school in the late nineteen fifties. You
were doing this in Texas at that time. It was
certainly something that intrigued me. I know it has intrigued
(12:27):
the world. You've written a book. It sounds to me
as if you're pretty skeptical of this.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
Explain to us, well, I mean that's not the main reason.
That's not my main reason in telling the story of Adama.
I'm skeptical. I mean, you know, everybody has their own
degree of faith and how they what they believe or
what they don't believe. But for me, the most powerful
(12:52):
impulse to write this story for me was just because
it's a great story. It's the story of these three
little children who are in nineteen seventeen and Fatima Portugal
at the you know, at the hinge moment of the
twentieth century, we have an era of revolutions right at
the beginning of the of the flu pandemic of nineteen eighteen,
(13:15):
which killed two of the children. It's the story of
you know, it's the story of faith, It's the story
of imagination and politics and all the kind of main
events of the twentieth century are sort of this is
a lens through which you could look at them and
how faith and the kind of political transitions and turmoil
(13:39):
of the twentieth century, you know, changed everybody. So I
came into it as a former practicing Catholic. Now I'm
kind of like just I'm somebody who's never going to
get the Catholicism out of my system and don't really
want to. But it's not a devout book. But it's
(13:59):
not a debugging book either.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Okay. Yeah. One of the things that I remembered about
learning about Fatima, and you know much more about this
than I do, so let me let me set that out.
Your researched it done in book et cetera. I thought
that it's some point I was told or I learned,
(14:26):
that World War Two started on December seventh, which was
either a Holy Day of obligation or close to a
Holy Day of obligation December seventh, and then it ended
on August fifteenth, nineteen forty five, which was in the
Catholic Church. I think it's the Feast of the Assumption.
(14:48):
If I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
Those I can't answer. I can't speak to that, really,
I do can. I can hear you that World War
two is bound up in the in the in the
story of Fatimah.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Tell us how that was what I was I was
struggling with my question that explain to us. Stephen, go
right ahead.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
I hadn't heard those those dates, but I'll have to
check it, because that actually is pretty interesting. But you
know the in nineteen seventeen, on May thirteenth, nineteen seventeen,
these three children, Lucia Santo's her cousins Francisco and Jacinta Marto,
said that they saw the Virgin Mary in this field
in Portugal. And one of the things that the Virgin
(15:35):
Mary said was, you know this this is during World
War one, and she said that and worst war will
come if people don't pray the Rosary and pray and
specifically for the conversion of Russia to Christianity, and so,
you know, world War two did come. People believe some
(15:57):
people believe that the Virgin Mary predicted that at I mean,
there's all sorts of you could get into, way into
the weeds about exactly what date World War one world
War two started, and who was pope then, and whether
her prophecies were accurate or not. But it certainly is
true that both World War One and World War Two
(16:17):
were important parts of the of the Fatima story. And
you know, there was a you probably grew up like me,
if it sounds like we had some of the same
experiences at the same age. You probably heard about the
Fatima Letter or the Third Secret of Fatima.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, and I never figured out what that was.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
No, Yeah, I mean a lot of people were very
puzzled by it and what it was was. And this
is partly what drove me to write the book, because
we were these little kids in Catholic school in the
late nineteen fifties and we were told that that Sister
Lucia then had written down prophecy that was supposed to
(17:01):
be opened in nineteen sixty that would tell the fate
of the world. And remember this was right at the
height of the Cold War, when people were terrified. We
were all doing duck and cover exercise.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Under the desk, remembered well.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
And so in our school, the nun who was teaching us,
we asked her, you know, nineteen sixty finally came and
we were desperate to know what this letter said. And
she told us, well, the Pope took it out of
the envelope, read it, said it was too horrible for
anybody to read, and put it back in the envelope
and sent it away into the archives of the Vatican.
(17:38):
So the whole world was disappointed. Would say it would
be the wrong term. The whole world was sort of
traumatized already by what was happening, and then this information
that we couldn't know the third secret or the contents
of the fathom the letter really terrified it.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Well, you know the funny thing about it is you
compare them to, for example, the Kennedy files, or the
Epstein files, or the Robert F. Kennedy assassination files of
the Martin Luther King. A lot of us feel there's
war to all of those that have never that's never
gotten out. It seems as if not only did the
Church disappoint, but also the government's disappoint. Just coming back
(18:21):
to the Catholic Holy Days of obligation. World War two,
I mean, obviously started in September one, nineteen thirty nine,
in Germany and Russian invaded Poland. But US involvement started
in December. And if I'm not mistaken, well I'm not mistaken.
Pearl Harbor occurred on a Sunday, and it may have
(18:42):
been that we declared war the following day, which happens
to be a holy day in the Catholic Church, the
Maaculal Conception. And then it did end with MacArthur accepting
the signatures of the japan Niece on the deck of
the USS Missouri, which was August fifteenth, which is in
(19:05):
fact the Assumption in the Catholic Church. So I think
that those days starting at the beginning of the end.
Maybe there was misinformation, but I think that is where
World War II got wrapped up in all of this.
And also August in twenty seventeen, the Russian Revolution was starting.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Yeah, the Russian Revolution. Also a Portuguese revolution had started.
You know several years earlier which was very similar in
which a secular government was taking over basically a Catholic country,
and so there were all sorts of political turmoil going on,
which I think helped kind of create the interest in
(19:48):
Fatima at the beginning.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, it's and again I'm still interested, you know, all
of In all of this, I sort of leave it
to the concept of faith either you you know, have
a level of faith that allows you to say, well,
something happened. I thought that there were once the apparitions
(20:15):
occurred on those success of thirteen days of the month,
that the first two or three occurred just with these
children coming back and telling the stories to their friends.
But by October thirteenth, was there not a lot of
people who saw some stuff in the sky.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
Absolutely. On October thirteenth, nineteen seventeen, which was the sixth apparition,
the Virgin appeared and promised she would come back every
on the thirteenth of every month for six months. And
she promised to do it to promise Lucia. And we
all know all this comes from Lucia Santos. You know,
(20:54):
she's the one who wrote down these crossicles and these memoirs.
And so she said that the Virgin told her that
she would perform the miracle so that all would believe
on that day. So on that day, you know, there
was this field where where the Santo's families and the
Marto families were grazing their sheep. They had been trampled
into mud, you know, months before because of all the tourists,
(21:16):
all the people came just to see what was going on.
So they were all people say that it's hard to
know exactly how many people were there. Possibly as many
as seventy thousand, possibly even more had come to see.
They were expecting a miracle, and it was pouring down rain.
You know, the mud was like ankle deep. Everybody was
(21:38):
soaked to the bone. And all at once the sky cleared,
and you know how the sky gets really after a rainstorm
suddenly cleared, the sky can look really sort of luminous
and mysterious. I think that happened there and then, And
remember Lucia and and and her two cousin and so
(22:00):
were the only people who could see the apparition. Nobody
else COULDRCT so they had to take Lucia's the children's
word for it. And Lucia said look at the sky,
and at least seventy thousand people looked up at the sky,
and what they saw, or what many of them say
they saw, was this atmospheric miracle, as it's been termed,
(22:23):
where the sun seemed to dance in the sky and
drop drop toward the ground and scatter all these sort
of prismatic colors all over everything. And that was that's
called the miracle of the Sun. And you can argue
it any way you want, you know, depending on your
level of faith or your level of pragmatic you know, interpretation.
(22:45):
But something happened that day, and you know it was
certainly atmospheric. And you know, so there are people who
say that it was a ufo or people who say
it was a SunDog or a peer heelium and all
these kind of atmospheric effects, but clearly something did happen,
and that kind of cemented the reverence and the excitement
(23:09):
that people felt toward toward this place.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Wow, fascinating. Stephen Harrigan, the book is Sorrowful Mysteries, The Shepherd,
Children of Fatima and the Fate of the twentieth century.
If people have listened to this interview, and I hope
you posted on your website. I think a lot of
people will be sufficiently intrigued that they will want to
buy this book.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
And thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah. And I was just going to say, is it's
best I assume in this day and age, just go
to Amazon and typing your name Stephen Harrigan h A
W R I G A N spells Harrogan Sorrowfulness, Shepherd.
I'm sure you've heard that song your entire life, The Shepherd,
Children of Fatima and the Fate of the twentieth Century.
(23:59):
I'm more intrigued, and I'll be getting the book, and
I'm sure many of my audience will as well. And
I thought this was a great interview. I was ready
to try to debate you on this, but you have
made a really marvelous presentation that is a reportorial and
journalistic and I appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
And we can debate some other time after you read
the book. Let's let's talk, which sounds great.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Al right, Steven Eric, Are you still hanging out in
Texas or No, you don't have a Texas accent.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
No, but kind of. I've been here most of my life,
so it's about one hundred and twenty degrees.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
It's kind of cool night down in Texas. Then. Okay,
Steven enjoyed talking with you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (24:44):
Okay, Dan, great to talk to you very well.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
All Right, we have the news coming up, and right
after that we're going to talk with Professor Peter kim I.
We'll be talking about why Americans are losing trust in
each other. I think that's going to be intriguing. Do
stay with us. If you haven't gotten the new and
improved iHeart app, go to the app store on your device,
whatever it is. It's a tablet, it's a phone, it's
(25:10):
a laptop and desktop. Pull down the iHeart app. Very simple.
You can click on it, bring it down, make us
your first preset WBZ, so we'll always just be a
fingertip away. And there is a button on there called
one tap. You can as a microphone button. You can
leave us a thirty second no more thirty second comment
(25:31):
and it will go directly to our control room. And
once we get this up and running, we'll play these
comments during the show, so you'll have two ways to
talk to us, not only live on the telephone, but
also through comments through what's called the one Tap on
the iHeart. The new and improved. iHeart app back on
Nightside run a little bit late right after this.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's NewsRadio.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Welcome back. Joining us is a professor Peter Kim. He's
a professor of management and organization and don't we need
those at the USC Marshall School of Business, University of
Southern California. Go Trojans the author of a book How
Trust Works, The Science of Relationships are Built, Broken and Repaired.
This book has been out for a year or two,
(26:21):
but I think it's something we might like to take
a look at. Professor Kim. Welcome to Night sid How
are you?
Speaker 6 (26:29):
Thank you Dan. I'm doing great. It's great to s
on the show with you.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Well, thank you very much. Always great to have someone
from USC. So America is losing trust in one another.
According to a Pew Research Center report found that seventy
one percent of respondents thought interpersonal trust confidence in their
fellow citizens has waned over the last two decades. It's
(27:00):
we're dealing with losing trust. To find what you think
the Pew Research study actually quantified, I'm confused by that.
Speaker 6 (27:13):
Well, I think it's not just the Pew Research Center.
It's a variety of surveys that have measured the level
of trust not only in one another, but in our institutions,
the government, financial institutions, almost every single one has found
that those levels of trust has declined. And if we
(27:39):
want to sort of agree on a simple definition of trust,
it's our willingness to make ourselves vulnerable in situations involving risk, right,
It's a psychological inclination to do that, and we're just
less willing to do that nowadays.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Okay, so I okay, So my theory, and I'd love
to know what you think, is that it all comes
back to the computers that we have. All of us
are spending me included, too much time on my computer,
less time in face to face personal relationships. And most
of the things that I worry about are people hacking
(28:18):
my computer, hacking my bank accounts, stealing my identities, all
the things that have now come to our door because
of computers and Mark Zuckerberg. So have I encapsulated the
entire cause in about thirty seconds or my way off.
Speaker 6 (28:38):
Mark, Well, I agree that that's one of the major
factors that's led to the decline in trust, and so
that really gets to the fact that our trust in
others is based on what we know about them and
our perceptions of them as part of our group or
(29:01):
parts of other groups. And I think one of the
big things that the Internet has done has made it
very easy to identify whatever particular subgroups that we most
identify with and to differentiate back group from everything else
in the world. And there's a lot of everything else
(29:21):
in the world, and you know, those people those groups
are seen as outsiders, as enemies, as not you know,
on our side, and we have such a shallow perception
of them. We don't really see them as individuals, and
that keeps us from learning enough about them to see
(29:45):
them as human beings, albeit you know, faulty in many ways,
that they may have some reasons for us to trust them.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
So are you saying that most of us trust our
inner circle. We trust the people who we can count
on our two hands, who are our true friends, and
maybe we trust some of our acquaintances. But people who
we don't know we have an inherent suspicion of. I
think that's what you just said. I want to make
sure I understand it.
Speaker 6 (30:17):
I think that's right. Yeah, And so the people that
are you know, it really gets to the very tribal,
clan like side of us, right, that primitive brain. We
want we want to find others that will be there
for us, and you know, so our friends, our family,
(30:39):
those that are close to us we see as those people.
And then on the internet you can identify other groups
that share those values that you might have, and it's
easy to differentiate those from the people outside that group.
One big factor that, one big thing that this does
(31:00):
is that it creates a motivation to see the actions
of those in our group and those outside our group differently.
So if for some you know, people will inevitably let
us down, but if it's our friends or family, then
we will see those failures as mistakes. Right, they didn't
mean to hurt us part of our group people. Yeah,
(31:26):
they might have forgotten. They're just not very good at
this sort of thing and so on. Right, So we
come up with these reasons, and we're motivated to come
up with those reasons in order to maintain those close
relationships with those people. But for those that are outside
of that group, we don't have those motivations. So it's
easy to say that, oh that the exact same failures
(31:48):
they're the result of them trying to take advantage of us,
of them lacking morals and so on, and so that
that difference in explanation for they've even this exact same
failure can lead to much more serious problems.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, you ascribe, you ascribe malign intent to those who
you do not have close within your inner circle. Is
I think what you're saying. So we could talk for
hours on this. We could talk about people who have
gone to computers and they have gotten into their political silos.
They only have friends with whom they agree politically. They
(32:27):
only listen to programs with which they agree politically, which
has further again separated us into this tribe, that tribe,
the red tribe or the blue tribe. What can we
do in you know, forty five seconds or so, And
I'm sure that you've asked, but this, as before, it
probably takes a lot more than forty five seconds. What
(32:48):
can individuals, what can society do to to basically turn
this trend around? Because it's it's a trend which is
troubling for me, and I think troubling for most people.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
Well, I think the first step is to move beyond
the superficial caricature and see these people for who they
are and realize that these attributions that we're making that
they're not necessarily correct, right, And so we have this
(33:22):
instinctive tendency to say this is a lack of integrity.
You know, they intended to take advantage of us, But
is that really true? And so the first step for
us is to recognize that we have this bias and
the kind of attribution we're making for the people outside
(33:44):
our groups, and how that may not necessarily be correct.
And so that would be the first step to get
us to realize that those attributions may not be correct
and to do the investigation necessary with an open mind
to understand why things might have happened. Because most most failures,
(34:07):
most violations of trust are multiply determined, right, There are
lots of things that can lead to a failure, and
so we need to be more open to those those
reasons and too, you know, and we may still ultimately
determine that they had you know, their various intent and
so on, but not jumping to the gun. Okay, it's
(34:29):
a very critical star.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Professor kim let me mention. The book available I assume
at Amazon, How trust Works, The Science of Relationships Are Built,
Broken and Repaired. That is the book that I hope
people get a chance to spend some time with. I
appreciate you having spent some time with us tonight. Thank
(34:51):
you very much, professor, and go Trojans.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
It's a pleasure. Thank you. Then it's good jeving me.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Thank you, Thank you. Professor Peter Kim. The book How
Trust Works, The Science of Relationships Are Built, Broken and Repaired.
We'll be back on Nightside and we're going to introduce
you to an event that has never happened before. It's
called Sweat a Palooser. We'll explain.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Now it's not often that here on Nightside we can
introduce you to an event that has never happened before.
I mean, the marathon has been running around here for
what one hundred and twenty five years. However, you can
go to the inaugural event of the sweat Apaloosa on Saturday,
June twenty first, and here to explain exactly what we'll
(35:43):
transpire at the first ever Sweat a Paloosa is Claric Culin.
She's the Associate director of Culture and Experience at Seaport Boston.
You know, Claire, I didn't even realize Seaport Boston had
an associate director of Culture and Experience. That sounds like
a pretty fun job up.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
Oh yeah, it's very fun. It's also fun coming up
with the names of things like Sweat of Palooza. It's
a real catchy one that we came up with.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Well, I'll tell you, I hope you didn't like spend
hours on that one, because I could have come up
with that one pretty clear, pretty quickly, A swell.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
Right off the tongue too.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Well, yeah, but what I'm saying you put anything in
front of a bowling palooza, a golfing palooser. But I'm
only teasing you. So the Sweat of Palooza. Tell us
what it is. First of all, I think the name
describes it, but drilled down a little bit for us.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
Oh, of course. Well, it's obviously a palooza, and it's
our celebration of ten years of Seaport Sweat, which is
the workout series that we host in Seaport right on
Seaport Common. And ten years is a pretty long time
to be running a workout series, so we're really excited
and happy for the community that we formed along all
those ten yures, so we wanted to post a palooza
to celebrate. So we've got three amazing workout classes. We're
(36:59):
bringing back some really popular instructors like Ticket by Eliza,
Eliza Sharrazzi, who's actually been with us all ten years.
We've got a yoga class with Go to Bermuda where
an instructor has flown in from Bermuda to teach it.
And then bron Volney also will be teaching broncor boot Camp.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
So now I don't spend a lot of time down
the seaport, okay, because it's tough to get in and
tough to get out. As Yogi Berra once said, no
wonder nobody comes to this place. It's too crowded. But
for those who live down there and who are seaport denizens,
what have you been doing? Ten years of outdoor fitness classes?
(37:39):
Is that what we're talking about, the tradition.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Years of out door Ten years of outdoor fitness classes
Monday through Thursday twice today we have five thirty and
six thirty and Saturdays at ten at ten am. So really,
if you live in the seaport, or go to the seaport.
You can just cancel your gym membership for the entire
summer because we run May through September.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Okay, so you got to renew the membership from October
through April. Okay, that's good. That cuts the thing down. Now.
This is going to be on Saturday, June twenty first,
which is not this Saturday. It's a week from Saturday,
the first day of summer, perfectly timed, and the event
goes from eleven in the morning until one and round
(38:23):
the ten in the morning until one in the afternoon.
For folks who don't normally hang in the seaport, we're
in the seaport. Will this event be held.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Yeah. So it's right at eighty five Northern Alve. We
have a beautiful green space called Seaport Common. It's right
next to the Current, which is our pop up shops.
If you're familiar with Cisco Brewers, it's just a block
down from there, so it's kind of like the central
hub of Seaport. And there's tons to do after too.
You can take one class, you can take all three.
We've got green juices that go to Bermuda will also
(38:57):
be offering our sponsor as General Brigham Health Plan will
be giving out water and we'll have a bunch of
amazing other giveaways as well, and then you can take
one class or take three, grab a beer from Cisco
after and have a beautiful seaport day.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Well that's the seaport's doing well, right. I assume every
time I do go down there, it's it's busy, busy, busy.
It's it's certainly a far cry from what I knew
as the seaport. It was Anthony's and Jimmy's restaurants pretty much.
Not much.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
Oh yeah, we got We've got many more than that. Now.
We just opened up in Island Creek Oyster Bar, which
is which is very amazing. So you can also go
eat some caveat after workout class if you want to,
which is okay, an amazing idea.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
If you ask me, how's the how's the tea service
out to seaport. I'm not someone who rides the tea
very much, but if I was going out there, and
if I wanted to go out there and take the
tea in my sweats, what's what's the deal there?
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Yeah, you can take the Red Line just the South
station or Onnyline that goes to South Station and walk
across the bridge and then take the Summer Street steps
right down into Seaport. Or you can take the Silver Line,
which is what I did every day for many many
years when I commuted. Now I'm on the Commuter Rail,
so I just walk from South Station, so super accessible.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Well that's great, And the seaport is doing well? Is there?
Has most of the seaport at this point been built out?
I mean, I know that they're going to be renaming
the convention Center the Thomas M. Menino Convention Center, which
I think is a great honor and well deserved for
Mayor Minino and his family. But has is the seaport,
(40:40):
which I think very much was his dream? Has? I
mean how much? How more stuff can you put out there?
I mean he got hotels, great hotels, You've got great restaurants.
You know, you have the Ray Flynn Pavilion out there
with the ships coming in? Is it? Is it pretty much?
(41:00):
Are there still things that are going to be new
a year or two or three years from now?
Speaker 4 (41:07):
We can always fit something more. We've always got something
new opening and something more to build.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
So you build a lead bridge to Ireland or having
at this point.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Yeah, no, that one might take a couple of years,
but you're always opening something new. The current the pop
up shops transition every.
Speaker 6 (41:26):
Couple of months.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
We've always got the holiday market every winter that gets
built and then unbuilt, which feels like a miracle. So
there's always something new happening.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
It was a big ice cream place I think that
we previewed a year ago down there. I forget the
name of it, but they were really good.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
Is at the Museum of ice Cream?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yes, yes, how they do it?
Speaker 4 (41:46):
Oh they're doing great. Yeah, it's great. Kids slide right
down the slide into a pool of sprinkles, so there's
there's ice cream to eat and then also sprinkles to
play and those sprinkles.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Are not used later in the day on ice cream codes.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
Obviously, I'm definitely not good.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Just to be sure, Just to be sure anyway, Claire
kill Colin, thank you very much. Claire lovely to talk
with the Associate Director of Culture and Experience at Seaport Boston.
It's the sweat of Paloozer. Not this Saturday, nine days
from now. On Saturday June twenty first, from ten to
fifteen until one o'clock, it'll be a great day and
(42:24):
you'll be able to eat your way. After you lose
a few pounds, you can just have all sorts of
goodies in the seaport. Thanks very much, Claire, appreciate it
very much. I was in the hometown of your family,
kill Colin Island not too long ago.
Speaker 4 (42:40):
Oh wow, yeah, that is the hometown in my family.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yes, it's lovely hometown. By the way, thanks so much.
Thanks much. When we get back, thanks Claire. When we
get back, right after the nine o'clock news, is going
to be talking with Boston criminal defense attorney Phil Tracy.
The trial, the second trial of Karen Reid is over.
Opening arguments, or rather closing arguments tomorrow are from both
(43:03):
the prosecution and the defense, and then it gets to
the jury. And once the jury has it, they may
be doing some deliberations. They could stay as late as
five or five thirty tomorrow. They're supposed to start at
eight thirty nine o'clock. I think the closing arguments will
be finished by noon. There could be some activity tomorrow.
We'll preview it with Phil Tracy right after the nine
(43:25):
o'clock news
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