September 19, 2025 • 39 mins
We kicked off the program with four news stories and different guests on the stories we think you need to know about!
Epilepsy Foundation New England is pushing new legislation to improve safety in Massachusetts schools.
Guest: Kimberlee Schumacher - Interim President and CEO of Epilepsy Foundation New England
Sept. 18th was National Cheeseburger Day! The first ever burger was made with coffee and brown sugar back on Sept. 18th,1885. How different is the original recipe burger than what we eat today?
Guest: Chris Carosa – Hamburger Historian - author of Hamburger Dreams: How Classic Crime Solving Techniques Helped Crack The Case Of America’s Greatest Culinary Mystery
If you lost your wedding ring or favorite piece of jewelry at the beach, in the woods, wherever, did you know there’s a network of metal detectorists who are ready to jump into action & help you?!
Guest: Dennis Boothby – Metal Detectorist based out of New England with The Ring Finders
BU Study of Young Athletes Finds Neurodegeneration Might Begin Before CTE Guest: Dr. Morgane Butter, PhD – First author in this study - formerly a PhD Student at the BU CTE Center and this research was her doctoral thesis work
Epilepsy Foundation New England is pushing new legislation to improve safety in Massachusetts schools.
Guest: Kimberlee Schumacher - Interim President and CEO of Epilepsy Foundation New England
Sept. 18th was National Cheeseburger Day! The first ever burger was made with coffee and brown sugar back on Sept. 18th,1885. How different is the original recipe burger than what we eat today?
Guest: Chris Carosa – Hamburger Historian - author of Hamburger Dreams: How Classic Crime Solving Techniques Helped Crack The Case Of America’s Greatest Culinary Mystery
If you lost your wedding ring or favorite piece of jewelry at the beach, in the woods, wherever, did you know there’s a network of metal detectorists who are ready to jump into action & help you?!
Guest: Dennis Boothby – Metal Detectorist based out of New England with The Ring Finders
BU Study of Young Athletes Finds Neurodegeneration Might Begin Before CTE Guest: Dr. Morgane Butter, PhD – First author in this study - formerly a PhD Student at the BU CTE Center and this research was her doctoral thesis work
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's nice with Dan Ray. I'm telling you easy. Boston's
News Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome on and everyone, and it is sadly the final
weekend of summer. I guess fall arrives on Monday. A
friend of mine calls Monday moon Day. That's an extra
reason to call it moon day if it's gonna end
summer and start to start fall. But that's okay. We
have a weekend in front of us, and I'm gonna
(00:30):
get you to that weekend because if you stick with
me for the next four hours, I will take you
right to the cusp of Saturday morning and we can
wave bye bye to Friday and say hello to Saturday.
My name is Dan Ray. Rob Brooks is back in
the control room. He is set to take your phone calls.
But he doesn't take your phone calls, remember, until after
the nine o'clock news. During the first hour, we will
(00:52):
have four guests of different topics, different interests, and we
will begin forthwith I'm delighted to welcome Kimberly Schumacher. She's
the interim president and CEO of the Epilepsy Foundation New England. Kimberly,
Welcome to Nightside.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Thanks Dan, happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I don't know a lot about epilepsy, and there may
be some people in my audience who also don't know
a lot about epilepsy. I remember when I was in
elementary school there were two or three kids in our
class who were subject. They were epileptic. That is it
(01:34):
a nerve malfunction? Exactly? How would you describe epilepsy for
those of us who are not medically trained.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Sure, epilepsy is a neurological condition and its people get
that diagnosis after they have two or more seizures, although
some people don't know about it or don't know much
about it, like in your story, One in twenty six
people will have a seizure, and it's really important that
(02:04):
we spread awareness.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So I would like someone neurologically, you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Something in the brain, right, there's sometimes we talk about
it as misfiring. That can be one of the reasons
people have seizures, but there's many different reasons.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Now, are these seizures on a spectrum mild seizure that
maybe people might not notice. I can remember one of
the things that we were told that forever in the
school yard with another child, and if this is improper information,
it was try to put a stick or something so
(02:40):
for them to bite down on. Is that old wives tale?
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Right?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
No, so that is totally a falsehood that was spread
a while ago. That's absolutely not the right thing to do,
and in fact that it's very dangerous for people having seizures.
This is part of why it's so important to spread
awareness and appreciate you bringing me on this show to
talk about it. You asked about seizures, and there's actually
(03:05):
forty different types of seizures, and so it's more like
some people can look like they're staring off into the distance,
that's their seizures.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
For other people, it's.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
More the convulsive type that folks may be more used
to see.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Is this genetic? Is there a genetic components of this?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
So there's all different causes for it. Sometimes folks don't know,
Like my own daughter when she had her first seizures
at four years old, there wasn't a known cause for it.
Other people might have seizures and epilepsy after brain surgery
or after a traumatic brain incident, and others. It is genetic,
(03:50):
as you described, So it's very important to raise awareness
of what are the signs of seizures and epilepsy. So
that people know how to respond to appropriate and that's
the reason for the legislation.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, well, let's talk about the signs. What what should
people be aware of if someone in you know, they
work with, or someone at a family event, you know, what,
what are they right? What are the what's the onset?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
The onset signs right?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
So what's interesting is the onset can look different for
different people. And that's why I encourage people have epilepsy
to have a seizure awareness an action plan. But what's
most important to do is when you see someone have
a seizure and they they might be convulsing, they might
be salivating at the mouth, and if that goes on
(04:38):
for some people, they'll actually go unconscious. So what's really
important is to stay with the person, remain calm, put
them on their side, and then and get help. So
the most important thing is to keep them safe because
they might be jerking, they may have to hit their
head for example, and so you want to stay calm
and safe with the person.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
How long does an epileptic seizure last? And again I'm
asking questions that I'm sure people out there are thinking of,
and I'm thinking along with them. Again, I assume it's
going to be the ANSWER's going to be on a
spectrum of time.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
I assume that's right, depending on the type. What's really
important is that there's folks with seizures and epilepsy have
rescue medication in case their seizures go on for a
long time. And so this legislation brings more awareness and
make sure that school personnel have access to the rescue medication,
(05:35):
which is really like it's a nasal It's a nasal
spray like an inhaler, but in your nose, so it's
easy and the more awareness about it the better.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
So now I mentioned my exposure to it when I
was in elementary school, and you've mentioned schools. Is this
something that impacts younger people, I mean juveniles more than us.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Ah, so it's our ages doesn't actually discriminate. So sometimes
ana can they can start any time. So sometimes there's
babies with infantile seizures. Other times, for example, one of
my coworkers had his first seizure and was diagnosed at
fifty five with apolepsi, So it can happen at any time.
(06:29):
What's really important in the school setting is that there's
training and awareness to keep the kids safe and to
educate folks.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Is that part of the legislation that is it's currently
this is being considered at the Massachusetts State House. Or
is this federal legislation.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, it's state by state. Great, great question. Twenty five
states have passed the Seizure Safe School legislation, including Connecticut
and Maine. But we have more states, including Massachusetts, where
it still needs to be passed, and it's why we
still need more advocacy around it.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Okay, if again, I want to come back to the
idea of the elementary school child. If someone displays a
tendency to epileptic seizures, is there any medication as they
go off to high school or college and into the
workforce and are out on their own. Is there any
ongoing medication when someone has diagnosed having had seizures that
(07:29):
medication can help prevent or diminish the intensity of those seizures.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yes, that's a great question. So most people upon diagnosis
are prescribed medication. It's a lot of great medications out there.
And in addition, they are prescribed a rescue medication, so
that would be save for example, they're in a setting
and their normal medication is not stopping a significant seizure,
(07:57):
that's when you'd want to use the rest SKUW medication.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Okay, how can folks get more information? You provided a
lot of information tonight, but do you have a website
that folks who might be interested in whether their family
members are affected or not, just to get some more
information and get up to speed on it.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yes, Epilepsy Foundation in New England. Our website is Epilepsynewengland
dot org. We have all those resources, including training materials
that we hope will be helpful to families and their caregivers.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah. And then you said that one out of twenty
four people that would be four percent of the population
at some point in their life would suffer and a
deal with an epileptic seizure.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
That's right, one in twenty six, So actually right right, No,
for sure, I.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Thought you said umber twenty four. I wasn't dry make
it worse.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
It's no problem, no moms, but it's quite common and
unfortunately there's not enough awareness about it. So I appreciate
you having me on tonight.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Last question, Once you have an epileptic seizure, and do
they ever just go away naturally or does that mean
you need to be on preventative medication for the balance
of your life.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
So there's all kinds of scenarios. And we talked about
how long someone is seizure free. Yeah, so for now,
my daughter has been seizure free for ten years. However,
her epilepsy still affects her in different ways. So a
lot of people have can have even depression and anxiety
(09:49):
related to having seizures at some point in their life.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
All right, Kimberly, you're a font of information and hopefully
we have helped a lot of people tonight. Thank you
for your time very much.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Dan, thank you.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
All right, we come back here on nightside. We will
get a little lighter and we will celebrate one day
late too late, National Cheeseburger Day. It's just how happened.
I had a cheeseburger for dinner tonight off the grill,
September eighteenth. But we're gonna was the day yesterday. But
we will nonetheless talk with Chris Carroza. He's a Hamburger historian.
(10:23):
I didn't even know there was such things as Hamburger historians,
the author of Hamburger Dreams. How classic crime solving techniques
helped crack the case. Of America's greatest culinary mystery. Boy,
there's a lot in the title of that book. We'll
be back on Night's Side right after this.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
It's Night Side with Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I mentioned before the break yesterday was National Cheeseburger Day.
I didn't know that. I don't know how he missed it,
but I did have a cheese I had a cheeseburger
off the grill Tonight with us as Chris Corosa. Chris
is a Hamburger historian, an author of a book with
a really long title. I'm going to read it again,
Hamburger Dreams. How classic crime solving techniques helped crack the
(11:11):
case of America's Greatest culinary Mystery. So, Chris, my first question,
first of all, is well, my first comment is welcome
to Nightside. And my first question is what is the
greatest culinary mystery in the history of America?
Speaker 6 (11:26):
I believe that is who sold the first Hamburger?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Ah? Okay, so you have done the research on.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
This, yes, indeedly do.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
How did you do a little bit? How did you decide,
as life's work you were going to become a Hamburger historian.
Speaker 6 (11:45):
You know, that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (11:47):
I won't say that it's my life's work. It was
a few years of dedicated research that went into doing it,
but it was really kind of just by accident. I
was taking a class in college and is about the
study of the city nothing to do with hamburger, has
really nothing to do with history. And the final was
about writing about the history of the city where you
(12:08):
were born in and I was born in Buffalo, and
I was reading about it, and there I found it
that the hamburger was invented in Buffalo. I was so excited.
I ran downstairs and the first classmate I saw we're
happened to be a native of New Haven, said, Hey,
guess what the hamberger was invented in my hometown Buffalo.
And he says, no, it wasn't. It was invented in
(12:30):
my hometown of New Haven. And he promptly took me
to Louis Lunch and I ate the hamburger there. So
that's my first introduction to the controversy, and you know,
it settled for a while. I wrote another book about
the hidden gems of great Western New York, and this
was a chapter. And when I did my book tour,
people were really interested in the story, and that's really
(12:51):
what made me decide to write an entire book and
do the thorough research on it.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
By the way, speaking of Buffalo, correct me if I'm wrong,
But I think that Van Buren president Martin van Burro
and came from Buffalo. If I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 6 (13:07):
Uh was Millard Fillmore? And if you want to stretch over,
Cleveland also spent some time in.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Buffalo Millard Fillmore. I always get it mixed up. Some
some say milled Fillmore, others say Philip Millard Fillmore. That's
very confused. I'm sorry. Yeah, okay, well that was good.
So you disabused me of that notion. For some reason,
I thought Van Buren was from Buffalo. So how did
you crack the case? I guess would be a big
(13:38):
part of the story here.
Speaker 6 (13:40):
So I have a background in newspaper reporting and publishing,
and I'm very familiar with the techniques that investigative reporters used,
not very different from techniques that good police investigators use.
And I actually duplicated Sherlock Holmes to begin with, where
I eliminated all the impossible and by doing that, you
(14:01):
know all the stories of dates associated with them. Years
associated with them. And the first thing I did was
I found the earliest mention of hamburger or hamburg sandwich,
that's technically what it was called earlier, and any story
that occurred after that date was thereby eliminated. Then I
had to put on my forensics hat, you know, modern
(14:21):
day sort of police work, and analyze the facts of
the remaining stories against say, other primary sources, but second
in independent sources, just to see if those facts could
be confirmed. Some of them were, and some of them were.
Speaker 5 (14:38):
And.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So let's deal what we won't deal with the ones
that weren't. Tell us how you figured this out.
Speaker 6 (14:50):
Well, the best story was the one of Frank and
Charles Mensches, which said that they sold the first Hammiger
on the last day of the eighteen eighty five Erie
County Fair, and they had run out of pork sausage,
which is what they were selling primarily, they were selling
sausage patty sandwiches. They went to a butcher asked to
buy ten pounds of pork, and the butcher said, no,
(15:12):
I'm not going to slaughter a pig for you because
it's too warm and I won't be able to maintain
the pig, keep the pig and sell it before it goes.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Just to be turned into one sandwich.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
That's true. I mean what I did is I actually
looked at the weather reports or the weather data for
that day, and I found out it was, in fact,
twenty degrees warmer than the opening day of the fair.
It was well above average the temperature, and so it
was hot. So that part of the story was true.
(15:46):
Interesting enough, and Frank Benches is the one who tells
this story, is that I don't think the butcher gave
the real answer, because what I also found out was
that year in western New York, two thirds of the
pig population had died because they had some sort of
epidemic spreading through it. And I think about it. If
(16:06):
you're a butcher talking to a customer who wants to
buy pork, you don't tell him I don't want to
sell you it because two thirds of the population is
dead because of some epidemic.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
You know.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
You say something else that's plaus Oh it's too hot.
I won't be able to sell a whole pig, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
By the way, I just checked Ben Barron out. He
was from Kinderhook, New York. So the state of New
York can still claim him as a president, but Buffalo
he's he was born in Kinderhook, which is much closer
to Albany. So just to just to get that straightened out,
how has the book been going. It's an intriguing title,
and let me say that, Chris, it is an intriguing title.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
It is.
Speaker 6 (16:46):
It's a hard title. And some people interview me say
that I get it on purpose just to see if
they could pronounce everything.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
But no, no, it's the words a difficult to pronounce.
I'm just imagining that that you need to have a
really big cover or you using some small, small froot
to get it all in there.
Speaker 6 (17:05):
Well, technically it's the subtitle. The long part of the
main title is Hamburger Dreams.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, I got you, I got it, I got it.
I'm just having lighten up, lighting up. We're having some
fun here. It's a Friday night. So how can folks
get the book?
Speaker 6 (17:19):
Oh, just go to your favorite bookstore, order it there,
go to Amazon. It's available wherever you are.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah. A lot of the a lot of the brick
and mortar bookstores are not, you know, huge in terms
of capacity. And I always like to push people towards
Amazon because maybe it costs a little bit more, but
you know that, you'll know that they have enough warehouses.
They probably have every book that's written since the beginning
of time. Hey, Chris, I appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (17:46):
Yeah, prefer Book and Mortar. You can go there and
they can order the book for you.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, that's true. No, I get it, I get it.
Maybe I'm just too much of an Amazon guy at
this point. Chris, Thank you very much. Nice to know
that Buffalo said UID's this coming football season super Bowl team.
A lot of my friends are rooting for Buffalo. It's
been so disappointing for that team over the years to
come so close and not get it. So I wish
(18:12):
your best luck in the Super Bowl. And you can
have a lot of Hamburgers up there in Buffalo, the
place with.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
Bill's Mafia.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, all right, good, all right, thanks Chris. Talk soon.
Here comes the news at the bottom of the hour.
It's a little bit past eight thirty when we get back.
Very interesting group of people who are doing a good work.
If you ever lose a wedding ring or a piece
of jewelry at a beach and you think it's still there,
We're going to introduce you to a group called the
(18:45):
Metal Detectorists. It's not a band, no, it's a group
of people who actually, as I understand it, will come
and help you here in New England with their metal
detectors and maybe find that lost piece of jewelry or
who knows that wedding ring. Back on Night's Side right
after the break.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
All right, this is I think a really interesting guest.
All I think all of our guests are interesting, but
this one is particularly interesting. Dennis Boothby, Dennis Boothby, welcome
to Night's Side.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Well, thank you, daand for having me.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
You are a metal detectorist. That sounds like it would
have been a great name for a band, ladies and gentlemen,
the Metal Detectorists. But that you're not a band, maybe
very much, Rob, that's nice. You're based out of New
England and you are what's called ring Finders.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
That's correct. So the ringfinder is actually an international group
and I'm just a member of a larger organization. We're
in seventeen nineteen countries now, and I think every state
US state is quite a few of them in Massachusetts actually,
and I'm up here in Maine.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Okay, so explain to us us how it works. You
are somebody who I assume, and you and your colleagues
own metal detectors. I see people all the time using
metal detectors. I often it sounds to me like it's
a great hobby. But you are doing more than joining
(20:21):
the hobby, You're actually helping people explain.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Yeah, that's true. And I've been metal detecting about twenty
five years, and I live very close to Old Orchard
Beach up here, Maine, about four miles. I would do
a lot of metal detecting down there. People were always
losing things. They'd be coming up to me asking if
I could help find their their ring, their hotel key,
you know, anything made of metal. And once I retired
(20:46):
a few years ago, I decided, you know, I had
heard about the ringfinders. I decided I would do it
as much as I could to help people out. It's
just such a great feeling to be able to reunite
somebody with their loss a hairloom, ring, or necklace, you
know that type of thing.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Okay, So give me an example in your career, either
you know, privately or in conjunction with the other ring finders,
that you found something that made a difference for someone.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Well, I can tell you this past summer, I actually
had fifty seven recoveries in the sixty two days of
July and August. Yeah, I mean engagement rings, wedding rings.
I'll get a phone call. Somebody's lost something at the beach.
They were in the water, the ring came off. I
will try to figure out the tides that were involved,
(21:39):
where they had low tide, high tide, mid tide, and
I will go down and I will find it. I
was actually being followed by a reporter from the Boston Globe.
There will be an article out there Sunday about me
and the other ring finders in the Boston Globe.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Who's the reporter will give the report?
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Were plugged too, Ben Cassidy?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Okay, fair enough? What Ben Cassidy's piece in Sunday Globe?
Speaker 4 (22:07):
So so.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Privately? Okay, when you're out there on your own, Yeah,
what is the sort? I'm assuming that the beach area
is a great area because people are laying out there,
they have their lug, their stuff within their bag and
the bag flips over. Have you have you ever found like, oh,
(22:31):
you know, I don't know some gold coins or things
that that you know on your own now, not finding
for someone else. Has Has it been a hobby that
has maintained your interest? Oh?
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Yeah, I absolutely love it. I have never found a
gold coin. I have found silver coin from the seventeen
sixty seven out in the wood along a river, along
with some trade axes which were iron axe had made
in Europe and Europeans would bring them over trade them
(23:01):
with the Native Americans. The Native Americans didn't have iron technology,
and most people around here enormous tomahawk they would hang
them on off their hip.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
I love finding that kind of stuff on the woods,
the history.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I bet so. When you talked about the coin from
you said seventeen sixty seven, if if I recall what
was that coin, it probably sat there for more than
two hundred years undisturbed in the woods. Yeah, that to me,
it's an amazing you know fact number one obviously, So
(23:41):
what was that coin worth? I mean, I hope and
assume you kept it, but I'm just wondering what it
would it would sell for because you know, because clearly
it's a it's a rare coin.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Yeah, they really aren't big money like that. This particular coin,
it was a Danish twelve skilling. It's probably seventy five
to one hundred dollars. In the condition it's in. When
coins are in the ground, there's a lot of environmental damage,
there's a little staining on it. But to me, it's
just the fact the history of it. I've been sitting
(24:15):
there for, like you said, two hundred years, and I
come along with my metal detector and unearthed. It's just
it's just a great feeling.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
So when when you do get a call from someone,
how do they how do they find you? And let's
say someone loses a ring in New England or or
on a beach in Maine more likely, how how is
it that they get to you? Is your name, you know,
available through police departments? I mean, what's the best way
(24:44):
that people I assume you want people to contact you, what.
Speaker 6 (24:48):
How do they correct?
Speaker 1 (24:49):
So?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
How do they how do they get in touch with you?
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Up here in Maine, I'm pretty well known. I've got
almost eight thousand followers on Facebook and I get a
lot of referrals. So if somebody loses something at the beach,
they'll put it on Facebook and people start saying, call
the ringfinders of Maine. Up here in Maine, that's what
I'm known as the ringfinder of Maine, and a lot
(25:16):
of the hotels locally know me. They call me, and
I actually was referred by a police department once this
summer down in a Gunqut.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
So the work you do, I believe from what I've seen,
you do it out of the goodness of your heart.
You're not looking for a reward particularly, that's correct. If
you're successful, Have people been nice enough to at least say,
you know, look, you just found a ring that was
worth five thousand dollars. Can I at least give you
a hundred bucks so you can buy dinner or something?
(25:46):
Most people appreciative.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yeah, I mean I do get a rewarded or tipped
now and then. It's certainly not necessary, but appreciated. And
I do it for the feeling. It's just such a
fantastic feeling. I see happy tears and crying, laughing hugs.
You know, it's just the look on their face and
the smiles is just all I need.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
What was the most significant in your opinion item that.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
You ever found, You ever found as a ringfinder or
personally either way.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Either way, I'm imagining there must have been some bride
who you know, who lost her regular honeymoon and didn't
think she would see and I'm just imagining something.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Yeah, there's all kinds of those. Probably the most well
known one. I found a eighteen care of gold necklace
with a jay booter on it and a small gold
heart back in two thousand and six, and whenever I
find and return an item, I put it on my
Facebook page so everybody can read the story and see
(26:55):
the pictures. Well, there's somebody made a comment, did you
ever find a gold necklace with a jade booter and
a heart? I lost it in two thousand and six.
Long story short, I had it still in the safe.
I drove it down to him in Worcestern, Massachusetts. His
name is Han Tu, and it pretty much went viral.
(27:18):
My wife took a video of me returning to him.
He didn't even know I was coming. I just knocked
on his door and showed it to him. And the
necklace itself was very sentimental. His parents had given it
to him that year he graduated high school. He only
had it for maybe a month or two. The heart
on the necklace was given to him by a very
(27:38):
good friend, a girl he went to high school with.
She ended up being tragically killed in a car accident
in November of that year. So that necklace meant so
much to him. Had his parents' connection and had his
friend's connection, and he when he saw it, he just
broke down in tears, uncontrollably, couldn't couldn't stop. Put me
(28:01):
by complete surprise. I thought he would be jumping up
and down, high fiving me, but the emotion overcame him
and I still get goosebumps to this day when I
think of it, Well.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I'm getting goosebumps. I want to hear the story. To
think that you were able to, you know, reunite an
individual with something as significant and as personally important to
them has to give you a lot of satisfaction. Well,
I wish you best of luck. Whenever I see someone
on the beach, I always love to strike up a conversation.
Many of them have the headphones on and they just
(28:32):
keep on walking. But I just think it's pretty cool.
What are the chances, realistically that every day you go
out you'll find something, whether it's a couple of you know,
Nichols on a beach. Is there almost going to be
something found every day? Or is it you? You? You?
You really? If you're if you hit it once every
(28:55):
four or five days, that's a good batting average.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
As far as coin go, you can usually find one
or two a day, so much more or less today
everything's going cashless, even up here in Maine. But parking
meters or card now even the arcades up here, you
buy a card, there's no more coins to find a
piece of jewelry. I mean, you can go all summer
(29:19):
only find one or two pieces of jewelry. It's just
the way it is. But it's a great hobby. Last
ques your own thoughtsfl Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Last last question. When you find something, whether it's a
piece of jewelry, coin, and again we realized that time
comes in, the time goes out twice a day. How
deep generally does is you find? Is it just two
or three inches below the surface or is it buried?
And again I'm sure it depends upon time, But what's
(29:51):
the average depth of finding something on a beach?
Speaker 4 (29:56):
But usually when they call me, it hasn't been missing
very long. It's just want to two inches under the sand.
And like you alluded that more time it's there, the
further down it goes, so it's out of reach.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, out of reach, that's what's out of reach. The
depth couple of feet or half a foot.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
With my detector, I'm comfortable twelve to sixteen inches.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
You're a great interview. I learned a lot. I learned
a lot about something You've always intrigued me. I hope
my audience did as well. Dennis Boothby, do you want
to give a website? I know you're not looking for
more business, because it sounds to me like you're you're
just a really good guy. Do you want to give
a way in which people can get in touch with you?
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Or would you prefer not to No, that's fine. Yeah,
we're all looking to help people. It's called the ring
Finders and you can see us on the Ringfinders dot com.
And if you're up in Maine, you can find my Facebook.
Just type in the ring Finders of Maine. We need help.
I can help you. If I can get to you,
(31:00):
I will get somebody else to you.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Dennis, thank you very much. You sound like a prince
of a guy. Thank you very much. I really appreciate
your time tonight, and.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Dan I appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
All right. You know our signal booms in Demain. I
hope you maybe you'll start listening to Nightside. We'll have
you back.
Speaker 6 (31:15):
Okay, thanks very much, great, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Thank you. All right. We get back on to talk
with Dr MORGANE. Butter, author of a study that essentially
found that young athletes deal with neurodegeneration and that actually
begins before CTE. We'll explain all of that. It's it's
it's medical issues, but we're talking about injuries to the brain.
(31:38):
We're coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
You're on Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Delighted to welcome doctor Morgan Butter.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Dr Butter is an author in a study former a
PhD student at the b u CTE Center, and this
research was for doctoral thesis. Basically, be you study of
young athletes finds that they're neurodegenerative degeneration actually might be
(32:11):
a precursor to CTE. Now, CTE, I think most of
us know it as chronic traumatic and cephalopathy, which deals
with a lot of athletes who have had some very
serious brain damage in sports like football and hockey, and
you know, contact sports doctor Butter, I hope, first of all,
(32:32):
I pronounced CTE correctly.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yes, you got it.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
Chronic traumatic and encephalopathy. It's a bit of a mouthful,
but CPE as we refer to it as a bit
easier now.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
We really haven't talked about CTE in this country, really
wasn't discussed, it seems to me until about as much
as fifteen or twenty years ago. That's my recollection. Correct
me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
Yes, No, that's definitely true. And I think that's a
large in large part due to a lot of the
work that's been done more recently, especially by the BUCT
Center doctors McKee, Alasco and Mez, as well as some
other other important, you know, research centers that have really
kind of brought to light the damage that actually happens
when athletes have exposure to head trauma like this. And
(33:19):
I think also, uh, you know, prominent professional athletes who
have been diagnosed with CTE after they died have really
helped bring it into you know, the public attention and
have helped us understand what happens after we you know,
athletes get exposure to this sort of head trauma, right, And.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
My understanding is that this only can be diagnosed with certainty,
you know, in some sort of post mortem analysis.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Correct, that's right.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Yeah, Unfortunately, we cannot diagnose it during life. It has
to be after somebody dies we do an autopsy and
then centers like the bu ct C CTE Center and
others will then go and examine the brains under a
microscope and determine whether that person had ct after they died.
So there's a lot of efforts being done to develop
(34:08):
diagnostics for people while they're still alive, but we still
have a lot of work to do until we can
get there.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Now, your thesis dealt with you found that there was
neural degeneration in many cases before CTE. I understand that
because I assume that neuro degeneration might be the precursor
to CTE, just as a nasty sore throat and of
(34:37):
stuff done sinus system might be the precursor to a
pretty bad flu case sometime during the winter. When you
say neural degeneration, I assume you're talking about something that
was caused also by some impacts, and that as the
impacts continued and became repetitive, that that then it slipped
(35:01):
from neurodegeneration into into a condition of CTE. Yeah, no,
I'm simplifying it, but I'm just I want to make
sure I understand it.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
Yeah, definitely. So, when we think about neurodegeneration, neurobing neurons,
which are the brain cell that are responsible for the
brain's function, degeneration being you know, dying. So as what
we saw in our studies was that even before people
had diagnosable CTE, some of those neurons were dying. And
(35:32):
it seems like the more years of football play, for example,
they had, the more that those neurons were actually dying.
So it's basically, as you increase the number of years
that you play, you have more of these these cells dying.
We can't definitively link that to the development of the
disease itself. We still have to kind of do a
little bit more work to really make that link. But
(35:53):
another thing that we found that might be important as
you're kind of mentioning this potential precursor or sore throat,
is we saw elevated levels of inflammation. So we think
of inflammation the immune system responding to something and as
you mentioned, potentially that could be that mechanical you know,
trauma that happens to the brain. We saw that even
(36:13):
if they didn't have CTE, they did have inflamed brains,
and that also scaled with the number of years that
they played.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Can either the inflammation or the neuro degeneration be diagnosed earlier?
Obviously CTE is only you know, post mortem. But is
it possible to say to some football player, Let's say,
who is you know, finishing his college career and is
a pro prospect potentially that hey, we perceive that you
(36:42):
have neurodegeneration, which means you are on the road towards
CTE and you need to consider that seriously if you
want to continue your football career professionally. Is that is
that horrible decision obviously to put in front of someone,
But is that conceivable that out of your study we
(37:03):
might be able to actually almost pre diagnose CTE.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
That is definitely the hope. And I really and I think,
you know, since we're just discovering that this is the
case now, you know, we haven't done a whole lot
of work towards that end, but that would definitely be
the hope. You know, if we can do, you know,
some sort of brain scan to detect certain areas of
the brain that are degenerating, or some sort of like
blood test or spinal tap that would tell us, yes,
(37:30):
this person who has played college football for this many
years is inflamed or has the generation they might be
more at risk for ct That's definitely the hope to
be able to develop a test like that.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
How can folks follow your work? Do you want to
give us the CTE Center. I know a lot of
people are interested in this topic and they may not
be medical professionals, but I'd love to follow your work.
Is there a website you can refer people some of
my listeners to it?
Speaker 5 (37:55):
Definitely, yep, yeah, if you google the BUCTE Center. I don't,
I'll have the url off the top of my head,
but BUCTE Center we have a website where if you
know you're concerned about potentially being at risk for CTE,
there are contacts for the doctors that deal with some
of the people who might be, you know, concerned about
(38:15):
that at the center and at bu SO. I think
the best way would be yea to visit our website,
the buct Center Online.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
All right, thank you very much, doctor Morgan Morgan Butter,
thank you for your work, and thank you for joining
us tonight.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Thank you for having me very welcome.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
When we get back, we're going to talk about a
subject that I think is very important. Some might view
it as almost moot, but it's the whether or not
women should as young men are obligated to do register
for the draft, even though the draft hasn't been around
now for close to fifty years and maybe never never
(38:55):
be brought back. There's a principle involved here. We're going
to talk with Attorney Wendy Murphy, who is arguing this
case next week here in Federal Court in Boston, coming
back after the nine
It's nice with Dan Ray. I'm telling you easy. Boston's
News Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome on and everyone, and it is sadly the final
weekend of summer. I guess fall arrives on Monday. A
friend of mine calls Monday moon Day. That's an extra
reason to call it moon day if it's gonna end
summer and start to start fall. But that's okay. We
have a weekend in front of us, and I'm gonna
(00:30):
get you to that weekend because if you stick with
me for the next four hours, I will take you
right to the cusp of Saturday morning and we can
wave bye bye to Friday and say hello to Saturday.
My name is Dan Ray. Rob Brooks is back in
the control room. He is set to take your phone calls.
But he doesn't take your phone calls, remember, until after
the nine o'clock news. During the first hour, we will
(00:52):
have four guests of different topics, different interests, and we
will begin forthwith I'm delighted to welcome Kimberly Schumacher. She's
the interim president and CEO of the Epilepsy Foundation New England. Kimberly,
Welcome to Nightside.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Thanks Dan, happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I don't know a lot about epilepsy, and there may
be some people in my audience who also don't know
a lot about epilepsy. I remember when I was in
elementary school there were two or three kids in our
class who were subject. They were epileptic. That is it
(01:34):
a nerve malfunction? Exactly? How would you describe epilepsy for
those of us who are not medically trained.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Sure, epilepsy is a neurological condition and its people get
that diagnosis after they have two or more seizures, although
some people don't know about it or don't know much
about it, like in your story, One in twenty six
people will have a seizure, and it's really important that
(02:04):
we spread awareness.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So I would like someone neurologically, you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Something in the brain, right, there's sometimes we talk about
it as misfiring. That can be one of the reasons
people have seizures, but there's many different reasons.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Now, are these seizures on a spectrum mild seizure that
maybe people might not notice. I can remember one of
the things that we were told that forever in the
school yard with another child, and if this is improper information,
it was try to put a stick or something so
(02:40):
for them to bite down on. Is that old wives tale?
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Right?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
No, so that is totally a falsehood that was spread
a while ago. That's absolutely not the right thing to do,
and in fact that it's very dangerous for people having seizures.
This is part of why it's so important to spread
awareness and appreciate you bringing me on this show to
talk about it. You asked about seizures, and there's actually
(03:05):
forty different types of seizures, and so it's more like
some people can look like they're staring off into the distance,
that's their seizures.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
For other people, it's.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
More the convulsive type that folks may be more used
to see.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Is this genetic? Is there a genetic components of this?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
So there's all different causes for it. Sometimes folks don't know,
Like my own daughter when she had her first seizures
at four years old, there wasn't a known cause for it.
Other people might have seizures and epilepsy after brain surgery
or after a traumatic brain incident, and others. It is genetic,
(03:50):
as you described, So it's very important to raise awareness
of what are the signs of seizures and epilepsy. So
that people know how to respond to appropriate and that's
the reason for the legislation.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, well, let's talk about the signs. What what should
people be aware of if someone in you know, they
work with, or someone at a family event, you know, what,
what are they right? What are the what's the onset?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
The onset signs right?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
So what's interesting is the onset can look different for
different people. And that's why I encourage people have epilepsy
to have a seizure awareness an action plan. But what's
most important to do is when you see someone have
a seizure and they they might be convulsing, they might
be salivating at the mouth, and if that goes on
(04:38):
for some people, they'll actually go unconscious. So what's really
important is to stay with the person, remain calm, put
them on their side, and then and get help. So
the most important thing is to keep them safe because
they might be jerking, they may have to hit their
head for example, and so you want to stay calm
and safe with the person.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
How long does an epileptic seizure last? And again I'm
asking questions that I'm sure people out there are thinking of,
and I'm thinking along with them. Again, I assume it's
going to be the ANSWER's going to be on a
spectrum of time.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
I assume that's right, depending on the type. What's really
important is that there's folks with seizures and epilepsy have
rescue medication in case their seizures go on for a
long time. And so this legislation brings more awareness and
make sure that school personnel have access to the rescue medication,
(05:35):
which is really like it's a nasal It's a nasal
spray like an inhaler, but in your nose, so it's
easy and the more awareness about it the better.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
So now I mentioned my exposure to it when I
was in elementary school, and you've mentioned schools. Is this
something that impacts younger people, I mean juveniles more than us.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Ah, so it's our ages doesn't actually discriminate. So sometimes
ana can they can start any time. So sometimes there's
babies with infantile seizures. Other times, for example, one of
my coworkers had his first seizure and was diagnosed at
fifty five with apolepsi, So it can happen at any time.
(06:29):
What's really important in the school setting is that there's
training and awareness to keep the kids safe and to
educate folks.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Is that part of the legislation that is it's currently
this is being considered at the Massachusetts State House. Or
is this federal legislation.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, it's state by state. Great, great question. Twenty five
states have passed the Seizure Safe School legislation, including Connecticut
and Maine. But we have more states, including Massachusetts, where
it still needs to be passed, and it's why we
still need more advocacy around it.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Okay, if again, I want to come back to the
idea of the elementary school child. If someone displays a
tendency to epileptic seizures, is there any medication as they
go off to high school or college and into the
workforce and are out on their own. Is there any
ongoing medication when someone has diagnosed having had seizures that
(07:29):
medication can help prevent or diminish the intensity of those seizures.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yes, that's a great question. So most people upon diagnosis
are prescribed medication. It's a lot of great medications out there.
And in addition, they are prescribed a rescue medication, so
that would be save for example, they're in a setting
and their normal medication is not stopping a significant seizure,
(07:57):
that's when you'd want to use the rest SKUW medication.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Okay, how can folks get more information? You provided a
lot of information tonight, but do you have a website
that folks who might be interested in whether their family
members are affected or not, just to get some more
information and get up to speed on it.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yes, Epilepsy Foundation in New England. Our website is Epilepsynewengland
dot org. We have all those resources, including training materials
that we hope will be helpful to families and their caregivers.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah. And then you said that one out of twenty
four people that would be four percent of the population
at some point in their life would suffer and a
deal with an epileptic seizure.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
That's right, one in twenty six, So actually right right, No,
for sure, I.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Thought you said umber twenty four. I wasn't dry make
it worse.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
It's no problem, no moms, but it's quite common and
unfortunately there's not enough awareness about it. So I appreciate
you having me on tonight.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Last question, Once you have an epileptic seizure, and do
they ever just go away naturally or does that mean
you need to be on preventative medication for the balance
of your life.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
So there's all kinds of scenarios. And we talked about
how long someone is seizure free. Yeah, so for now,
my daughter has been seizure free for ten years. However,
her epilepsy still affects her in different ways. So a
lot of people have can have even depression and anxiety
(09:49):
related to having seizures at some point in their life.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
All right, Kimberly, you're a font of information and hopefully
we have helped a lot of people tonight. Thank you
for your time very much.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Dan, thank you.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
All right, we come back here on nightside. We will
get a little lighter and we will celebrate one day
late too late, National Cheeseburger Day. It's just how happened.
I had a cheeseburger for dinner tonight off the grill,
September eighteenth. But we're gonna was the day yesterday. But
we will nonetheless talk with Chris Carroza. He's a Hamburger historian.
(10:23):
I didn't even know there was such things as Hamburger historians,
the author of Hamburger Dreams. How classic crime solving techniques
helped crack the case. Of America's greatest culinary mystery. Boy,
there's a lot in the title of that book. We'll
be back on Night's Side right after this.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
It's Night Side with Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I mentioned before the break yesterday was National Cheeseburger Day.
I didn't know that. I don't know how he missed it,
but I did have a cheese I had a cheeseburger
off the grill Tonight with us as Chris Corosa. Chris
is a Hamburger historian, an author of a book with
a really long title. I'm going to read it again,
Hamburger Dreams. How classic crime solving techniques helped crack the
(11:11):
case of America's Greatest culinary Mystery. So, Chris, my first question,
first of all, is well, my first comment is welcome
to Nightside. And my first question is what is the
greatest culinary mystery in the history of America?
Speaker 6 (11:26):
I believe that is who sold the first Hamburger?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Ah? Okay, so you have done the research on.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
This, yes, indeedly do.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
How did you do a little bit? How did you decide,
as life's work you were going to become a Hamburger historian.
Speaker 6 (11:45):
You know, that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (11:47):
I won't say that it's my life's work. It was
a few years of dedicated research that went into doing it,
but it was really kind of just by accident. I
was taking a class in college and is about the
study of the city nothing to do with hamburger, has
really nothing to do with history. And the final was
about writing about the history of the city where you
(12:08):
were born in and I was born in Buffalo, and
I was reading about it, and there I found it
that the hamburger was invented in Buffalo. I was so excited.
I ran downstairs and the first classmate I saw we're
happened to be a native of New Haven, said, Hey,
guess what the hamberger was invented in my hometown Buffalo.
And he says, no, it wasn't. It was invented in
(12:30):
my hometown of New Haven. And he promptly took me
to Louis Lunch and I ate the hamburger there. So
that's my first introduction to the controversy, and you know,
it settled for a while. I wrote another book about
the hidden gems of great Western New York, and this
was a chapter. And when I did my book tour,
people were really interested in the story, and that's really
(12:51):
what made me decide to write an entire book and
do the thorough research on it.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
By the way, speaking of Buffalo, correct me if I'm wrong,
But I think that Van Buren president Martin van Burro
and came from Buffalo. If I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 6 (13:07):
Uh was Millard Fillmore? And if you want to stretch over,
Cleveland also spent some time in.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Buffalo Millard Fillmore. I always get it mixed up. Some
some say milled Fillmore, others say Philip Millard Fillmore. That's
very confused. I'm sorry. Yeah, okay, well that was good.
So you disabused me of that notion. For some reason,
I thought Van Buren was from Buffalo. So how did
you crack the case? I guess would be a big
(13:38):
part of the story here.
Speaker 6 (13:40):
So I have a background in newspaper reporting and publishing,
and I'm very familiar with the techniques that investigative reporters used,
not very different from techniques that good police investigators use.
And I actually duplicated Sherlock Holmes to begin with, where
I eliminated all the impossible and by doing that, you
(14:01):
know all the stories of dates associated with them. Years
associated with them. And the first thing I did was
I found the earliest mention of hamburger or hamburg sandwich,
that's technically what it was called earlier, and any story
that occurred after that date was thereby eliminated. Then I
had to put on my forensics hat, you know, modern
(14:21):
day sort of police work, and analyze the facts of
the remaining stories against say, other primary sources, but second
in independent sources, just to see if those facts could
be confirmed. Some of them were, and some of them were.
Speaker 5 (14:38):
And.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So let's deal what we won't deal with the ones
that weren't. Tell us how you figured this out.
Speaker 6 (14:50):
Well, the best story was the one of Frank and
Charles Mensches, which said that they sold the first Hammiger
on the last day of the eighteen eighty five Erie
County Fair, and they had run out of pork sausage,
which is what they were selling primarily, they were selling
sausage patty sandwiches. They went to a butcher asked to
buy ten pounds of pork, and the butcher said, no,
(15:12):
I'm not going to slaughter a pig for you because
it's too warm and I won't be able to maintain
the pig, keep the pig and sell it before it goes.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Just to be turned into one sandwich.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
That's true. I mean what I did is I actually
looked at the weather reports or the weather data for
that day, and I found out it was, in fact,
twenty degrees warmer than the opening day of the fair.
It was well above average the temperature, and so it
was hot. So that part of the story was true.
(15:46):
Interesting enough, and Frank Benches is the one who tells
this story, is that I don't think the butcher gave
the real answer, because what I also found out was
that year in western New York, two thirds of the
pig population had died because they had some sort of
epidemic spreading through it. And I think about it. If
(16:06):
you're a butcher talking to a customer who wants to
buy pork, you don't tell him I don't want to
sell you it because two thirds of the population is
dead because of some epidemic.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
You know.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
You say something else that's plaus Oh it's too hot.
I won't be able to sell a whole pig, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
By the way, I just checked Ben Barron out. He
was from Kinderhook, New York. So the state of New
York can still claim him as a president, but Buffalo
he's he was born in Kinderhook, which is much closer
to Albany. So just to just to get that straightened out,
how has the book been going. It's an intriguing title,
and let me say that, Chris, it is an intriguing title.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
It is.
Speaker 6 (16:46):
It's a hard title. And some people interview me say
that I get it on purpose just to see if
they could pronounce everything.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
But no, no, it's the words a difficult to pronounce.
I'm just imagining that that you need to have a
really big cover or you using some small, small froot
to get it all in there.
Speaker 6 (17:05):
Well, technically it's the subtitle. The long part of the
main title is Hamburger Dreams.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, I got you, I got it, I got it.
I'm just having lighten up, lighting up. We're having some
fun here. It's a Friday night. So how can folks
get the book?
Speaker 6 (17:19):
Oh, just go to your favorite bookstore, order it there,
go to Amazon. It's available wherever you are.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah. A lot of the a lot of the brick
and mortar bookstores are not, you know, huge in terms
of capacity. And I always like to push people towards
Amazon because maybe it costs a little bit more, but
you know that, you'll know that they have enough warehouses.
They probably have every book that's written since the beginning
of time. Hey, Chris, I appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (17:46):
Yeah, prefer Book and Mortar. You can go there and
they can order the book for you.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, that's true. No, I get it, I get it.
Maybe I'm just too much of an Amazon guy at
this point. Chris, Thank you very much. Nice to know
that Buffalo said UID's this coming football season super Bowl team.
A lot of my friends are rooting for Buffalo. It's
been so disappointing for that team over the years to
come so close and not get it. So I wish
(18:12):
your best luck in the Super Bowl. And you can
have a lot of Hamburgers up there in Buffalo, the
place with.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
Bill's Mafia.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, all right, good, all right, thanks Chris. Talk soon.
Here comes the news at the bottom of the hour.
It's a little bit past eight thirty when we get back.
Very interesting group of people who are doing a good work.
If you ever lose a wedding ring or a piece
of jewelry at a beach and you think it's still there,
We're going to introduce you to a group called the
(18:45):
Metal Detectorists. It's not a band, no, it's a group
of people who actually, as I understand it, will come
and help you here in New England with their metal
detectors and maybe find that lost piece of jewelry or
who knows that wedding ring. Back on Night's Side right
after the break.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
All right, this is I think a really interesting guest.
All I think all of our guests are interesting, but
this one is particularly interesting. Dennis Boothby, Dennis Boothby, welcome
to Night's Side.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Well, thank you, daand for having me.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
You are a metal detectorist. That sounds like it would
have been a great name for a band, ladies and gentlemen,
the Metal Detectorists. But that you're not a band, maybe
very much, Rob, that's nice. You're based out of New
England and you are what's called ring Finders.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
That's correct. So the ringfinder is actually an international group
and I'm just a member of a larger organization. We're
in seventeen nineteen countries now, and I think every state
US state is quite a few of them in Massachusetts actually,
and I'm up here in Maine.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Okay, so explain to us us how it works. You
are somebody who I assume, and you and your colleagues
own metal detectors. I see people all the time using
metal detectors. I often it sounds to me like it's
a great hobby. But you are doing more than joining
(20:21):
the hobby, You're actually helping people explain.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Yeah, that's true. And I've been metal detecting about twenty
five years, and I live very close to Old Orchard
Beach up here, Maine, about four miles. I would do
a lot of metal detecting down there. People were always
losing things. They'd be coming up to me asking if
I could help find their their ring, their hotel key,
you know, anything made of metal. And once I retired
(20:46):
a few years ago, I decided, you know, I had
heard about the ringfinders. I decided I would do it
as much as I could to help people out. It's
just such a great feeling to be able to reunite
somebody with their loss a hairloom, ring, or necklace, you
know that type of thing.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Okay, So give me an example in your career, either
you know, privately or in conjunction with the other ring finders,
that you found something that made a difference for someone.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Well, I can tell you this past summer, I actually
had fifty seven recoveries in the sixty two days of
July and August. Yeah, I mean engagement rings, wedding rings.
I'll get a phone call. Somebody's lost something at the beach.
They were in the water, the ring came off. I
will try to figure out the tides that were involved,
(21:39):
where they had low tide, high tide, mid tide, and
I will go down and I will find it. I
was actually being followed by a reporter from the Boston Globe.
There will be an article out there Sunday about me
and the other ring finders in the Boston Globe.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Who's the reporter will give the report?
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Were plugged too, Ben Cassidy?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Okay, fair enough? What Ben Cassidy's piece in Sunday Globe?
Speaker 4 (22:07):
So so.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Privately? Okay, when you're out there on your own, Yeah,
what is the sort? I'm assuming that the beach area
is a great area because people are laying out there,
they have their lug, their stuff within their bag and
the bag flips over. Have you have you ever found like, oh,
(22:31):
you know, I don't know some gold coins or things
that that you know on your own now, not finding
for someone else. Has Has it been a hobby that
has maintained your interest? Oh?
Speaker 4 (22:41):
Yeah, I absolutely love it. I have never found a
gold coin. I have found silver coin from the seventeen
sixty seven out in the wood along a river, along
with some trade axes which were iron axe had made
in Europe and Europeans would bring them over trade them
(23:01):
with the Native Americans. The Native Americans didn't have iron technology,
and most people around here enormous tomahawk they would hang
them on off their hip.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
I love finding that kind of stuff on the woods,
the history.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I bet so. When you talked about the coin from
you said seventeen sixty seven, if if I recall what
was that coin, it probably sat there for more than
two hundred years undisturbed in the woods. Yeah, that to me,
it's an amazing you know fact number one obviously, So
(23:41):
what was that coin worth? I mean, I hope and
assume you kept it, but I'm just wondering what it
would it would sell for because you know, because clearly
it's a it's a rare coin.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Yeah, they really aren't big money like that. This particular coin,
it was a Danish twelve skilling. It's probably seventy five
to one hundred dollars. In the condition it's in. When
coins are in the ground, there's a lot of environmental damage,
there's a little staining on it. But to me, it's
just the fact the history of it. I've been sitting
(24:15):
there for, like you said, two hundred years, and I
come along with my metal detector and unearthed. It's just
it's just a great feeling.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
So when when you do get a call from someone,
how do they how do they find you? And let's
say someone loses a ring in New England or or
on a beach in Maine more likely, how how is
it that they get to you? Is your name, you know,
available through police departments? I mean, what's the best way
(24:44):
that people I assume you want people to contact you, what.
Speaker 6 (24:48):
How do they correct?
Speaker 1 (24:49):
So?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
How do they how do they get in touch with you?
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Up here in Maine, I'm pretty well known. I've got
almost eight thousand followers on Facebook and I get a
lot of referrals. So if somebody loses something at the beach,
they'll put it on Facebook and people start saying, call
the ringfinders of Maine. Up here in Maine, that's what
I'm known as the ringfinder of Maine, and a lot
(25:16):
of the hotels locally know me. They call me, and
I actually was referred by a police department once this
summer down in a Gunqut.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
So the work you do, I believe from what I've seen,
you do it out of the goodness of your heart.
You're not looking for a reward particularly, that's correct. If
you're successful, Have people been nice enough to at least say,
you know, look, you just found a ring that was
worth five thousand dollars. Can I at least give you
a hundred bucks so you can buy dinner or something?
(25:46):
Most people appreciative.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yeah, I mean I do get a rewarded or tipped
now and then. It's certainly not necessary, but appreciated. And
I do it for the feeling. It's just such a
fantastic feeling. I see happy tears and crying, laughing hugs.
You know, it's just the look on their face and
the smiles is just all I need.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
What was the most significant in your opinion item that.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
You ever found, You ever found as a ringfinder or
personally either way.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Either way, I'm imagining there must have been some bride
who you know, who lost her regular honeymoon and didn't
think she would see and I'm just imagining something.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Yeah, there's all kinds of those. Probably the most well
known one. I found a eighteen care of gold necklace
with a jay booter on it and a small gold
heart back in two thousand and six, and whenever I
find and return an item, I put it on my
Facebook page so everybody can read the story and see
(26:55):
the pictures. Well, there's somebody made a comment, did you
ever find a gold necklace with a jade booter and
a heart? I lost it in two thousand and six.
Long story short, I had it still in the safe.
I drove it down to him in Worcestern, Massachusetts. His
name is Han Tu, and it pretty much went viral.
(27:18):
My wife took a video of me returning to him.
He didn't even know I was coming. I just knocked
on his door and showed it to him. And the
necklace itself was very sentimental. His parents had given it
to him that year he graduated high school. He only
had it for maybe a month or two. The heart
on the necklace was given to him by a very
(27:38):
good friend, a girl he went to high school with.
She ended up being tragically killed in a car accident
in November of that year. So that necklace meant so
much to him. Had his parents' connection and had his
friend's connection, and he when he saw it, he just
broke down in tears, uncontrollably, couldn't couldn't stop. Put me
(28:01):
by complete surprise. I thought he would be jumping up
and down, high fiving me, but the emotion overcame him
and I still get goosebumps to this day when I
think of it, Well.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I'm getting goosebumps. I want to hear the story. To
think that you were able to, you know, reunite an
individual with something as significant and as personally important to
them has to give you a lot of satisfaction. Well,
I wish you best of luck. Whenever I see someone
on the beach, I always love to strike up a conversation.
Many of them have the headphones on and they just
(28:32):
keep on walking. But I just think it's pretty cool.
What are the chances, realistically that every day you go
out you'll find something, whether it's a couple of you know,
Nichols on a beach. Is there almost going to be
something found every day? Or is it you? You? You?
You really? If you're if you hit it once every
(28:55):
four or five days, that's a good batting average.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
As far as coin go, you can usually find one
or two a day, so much more or less today
everything's going cashless, even up here in Maine. But parking
meters or card now even the arcades up here, you
buy a card, there's no more coins to find a
piece of jewelry. I mean, you can go all summer
(29:19):
only find one or two pieces of jewelry. It's just
the way it is. But it's a great hobby. Last
ques your own thoughtsfl Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Last last question. When you find something, whether it's a
piece of jewelry, coin, and again we realized that time
comes in, the time goes out twice a day. How
deep generally does is you find? Is it just two
or three inches below the surface or is it buried?
And again I'm sure it depends upon time, But what's
(29:51):
the average depth of finding something on a beach?
Speaker 4 (29:56):
But usually when they call me, it hasn't been missing
very long. It's just want to two inches under the sand.
And like you alluded that more time it's there, the
further down it goes, so it's out of reach.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, out of reach, that's what's out of reach. The
depth couple of feet or half a foot.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
With my detector, I'm comfortable twelve to sixteen inches.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
You're a great interview. I learned a lot. I learned
a lot about something You've always intrigued me. I hope
my audience did as well. Dennis Boothby, do you want
to give a website? I know you're not looking for
more business, because it sounds to me like you're you're
just a really good guy. Do you want to give
a way in which people can get in touch with you?
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Or would you prefer not to No, that's fine. Yeah,
we're all looking to help people. It's called the ring
Finders and you can see us on the Ringfinders dot com.
And if you're up in Maine, you can find my Facebook.
Just type in the ring Finders of Maine. We need help.
I can help you. If I can get to you,
(31:00):
I will get somebody else to you.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Dennis, thank you very much. You sound like a prince
of a guy. Thank you very much. I really appreciate
your time tonight, and.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Dan I appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
All right. You know our signal booms in Demain. I
hope you maybe you'll start listening to Nightside. We'll have
you back.
Speaker 6 (31:15):
Okay, thanks very much, great, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Thank you. All right. We get back on to talk
with Dr MORGANE. Butter, author of a study that essentially
found that young athletes deal with neurodegeneration and that actually
begins before CTE. We'll explain all of that. It's it's
it's medical issues, but we're talking about injuries to the brain.
(31:38):
We're coming back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
You're on Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Delighted to welcome doctor Morgan Butter.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Dr Butter is an author in a study former a
PhD student at the b u CTE Center, and this
research was for doctoral thesis. Basically, be you study of
young athletes finds that they're neurodegenerative degeneration actually might be
(32:11):
a precursor to CTE. Now, CTE, I think most of
us know it as chronic traumatic and cephalopathy, which deals
with a lot of athletes who have had some very
serious brain damage in sports like football and hockey, and
you know, contact sports doctor Butter, I hope, first of all,
(32:32):
I pronounced CTE correctly.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yes, you got it.
Speaker 5 (32:36):
Chronic traumatic and encephalopathy. It's a bit of a mouthful,
but CPE as we refer to it as a bit
easier now.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
We really haven't talked about CTE in this country, really
wasn't discussed, it seems to me until about as much
as fifteen or twenty years ago. That's my recollection. Correct
me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
Yes, No, that's definitely true. And I think that's a
large in large part due to a lot of the
work that's been done more recently, especially by the BUCT
Center doctors McKee, Alasco and Mez, as well as some
other other important, you know, research centers that have really
kind of brought to light the damage that actually happens
when athletes have exposure to head trauma like this. And
(33:19):
I think also, uh, you know, prominent professional athletes who
have been diagnosed with CTE after they died have really
helped bring it into you know, the public attention and
have helped us understand what happens after we you know,
athletes get exposure to this sort of head trauma, right, And.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
My understanding is that this only can be diagnosed with certainty,
you know, in some sort of post mortem analysis.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Correct, that's right.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Yeah, Unfortunately, we cannot diagnose it during life. It has
to be after somebody dies we do an autopsy and
then centers like the bu ct C CTE Center and
others will then go and examine the brains under a
microscope and determine whether that person had ct after they died.
So there's a lot of efforts being done to develop
(34:08):
diagnostics for people while they're still alive, but we still
have a lot of work to do until we can
get there.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Now, your thesis dealt with you found that there was
neural degeneration in many cases before CTE. I understand that
because I assume that neuro degeneration might be the precursor
to CTE, just as a nasty sore throat and of
(34:37):
stuff done sinus system might be the precursor to a
pretty bad flu case sometime during the winter. When you
say neural degeneration, I assume you're talking about something that
was caused also by some impacts, and that as the
impacts continued and became repetitive, that that then it slipped
(35:01):
from neurodegeneration into into a condition of CTE. Yeah, no,
I'm simplifying it, but I'm just I want to make
sure I understand it.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
Yeah, definitely. So, when we think about neurodegeneration, neurobing neurons,
which are the brain cell that are responsible for the
brain's function, degeneration being you know, dying. So as what
we saw in our studies was that even before people
had diagnosable CTE, some of those neurons were dying. And
(35:32):
it seems like the more years of football play, for example,
they had, the more that those neurons were actually dying.
So it's basically, as you increase the number of years
that you play, you have more of these these cells dying.
We can't definitively link that to the development of the
disease itself. We still have to kind of do a
little bit more work to really make that link. But
(35:53):
another thing that we found that might be important as
you're kind of mentioning this potential precursor or sore throat,
is we saw elevated levels of inflammation. So we think
of inflammation the immune system responding to something and as
you mentioned, potentially that could be that mechanical you know,
trauma that happens to the brain. We saw that even
(36:13):
if they didn't have CTE, they did have inflamed brains,
and that also scaled with the number of years that
they played.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Can either the inflammation or the neuro degeneration be diagnosed earlier?
Obviously CTE is only you know, post mortem. But is
it possible to say to some football player, Let's say,
who is you know, finishing his college career and is
a pro prospect potentially that hey, we perceive that you
(36:42):
have neurodegeneration, which means you are on the road towards
CTE and you need to consider that seriously if you
want to continue your football career professionally. Is that is
that horrible decision obviously to put in front of someone,
But is that conceivable that out of your study we
(37:03):
might be able to actually almost pre diagnose CTE.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
That is definitely the hope. And I really and I think,
you know, since we're just discovering that this is the
case now, you know, we haven't done a whole lot
of work towards that end, but that would definitely be
the hope. You know, if we can do, you know,
some sort of brain scan to detect certain areas of
the brain that are degenerating, or some sort of like
blood test or spinal tap that would tell us, yes,
(37:30):
this person who has played college football for this many
years is inflamed or has the generation they might be
more at risk for ct That's definitely the hope to
be able to develop a test like that.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
How can folks follow your work? Do you want to
give us the CTE Center. I know a lot of
people are interested in this topic and they may not
be medical professionals, but I'd love to follow your work.
Is there a website you can refer people some of
my listeners to it?
Speaker 5 (37:55):
Definitely, yep, yeah, if you google the BUCTE Center. I don't,
I'll have the url off the top of my head,
but BUCTE Center we have a website where if you
know you're concerned about potentially being at risk for CTE,
there are contacts for the doctors that deal with some
of the people who might be, you know, concerned about
(38:15):
that at the center and at bu SO. I think
the best way would be yea to visit our website,
the buct Center Online.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
All right, thank you very much, doctor Morgan Morgan Butter,
thank you for your work, and thank you for joining
us tonight.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Thank you for having me very welcome.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
When we get back, we're going to talk about a
subject that I think is very important. Some might view
it as almost moot, but it's the whether or not
women should as young men are obligated to do register
for the draft, even though the draft hasn't been around
now for close to fifty years and maybe never never
(38:55):
be brought back. There's a principle involved here. We're going
to talk with Attorney Wendy Murphy, who is arguing this
case next week here in Federal Court in Boston, coming
back after the nine
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