September 22, 2025 • 39 mins
The city of Quincy is facing a lawsuit over its plan to erect two statues in front of their new public safety building to honor first responders. The statues in question depict St. Michael and St. Florian, the patron saints of police and fire departments. A “multifaith group of Quincy residents and taxpayers” being represented by the ACLU take aim with the statues saying they violate the Massachusetts Constitution by promoting one religion over another. Quincy Mayor Thomas Koch said the selection of the statues had nothing to do with the Catholic religion, that they were chosen in “an effort to boost morale and to symbolize the values of truth, justice, and the prevalence of good over evil.” Mayor Koch joined us to discuss.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, there's a controversy going on in Quinsy. It doesn't
really bother me, but I bother some people in Quincy,
and it doesn't bother the mayor with us as the
mayor of Quincy, Tom Coke, Mayor Coke, welcome back to Nightside.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
How are you good to be with you? Dan So.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Quincy is building a new state of the art public
safety building, which I guess is going to house both
the police and fire departments. This is this is a
great development for Quincy.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
It is it's it's well, how is the police department?
It's an entirety of the fire administration will be in
this as well as emergency management administration. There'll be no
apparatus the fire in the building, but all the admin
pieces to it.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I assume the fire appara. Quinsey is a pretty big city.
How many residents do you have? You are you one
hundred thousand?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
At this point we're about one hundred and five thousand.
We've got eight fire houses.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, so spread which of course they have to be
spread around the city geographically. And the public safety building,
I assume there's federal money and some city money and
maybe some state money. It's it's, it's. These are buildings
that have built probably once every thirty or forty years. Correct.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yes, you'll get a chance too often to build beautiful
municipal buildings. We run a fifth to do school. But
there is a program with the state, the School Building
Authority that assist municipalities with that. The public Safety headquarters
is it's city money only. There is no federal money
at all, no state money involved.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Oh okay, and it's I think I read something. It's
about one hundred about eight hundred and fifty million dollars.
I mean, it's it's, it's it's good.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
One hundred and fifty million dollars. How much I'm about
one hundred and seventy million total, But that includes road work,
moving the homeless shelter utilities, a lot of pieces around
the building, not just the building itself.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Okay, all right, so it's one hundred and seventy that's
that's a little. For some reason, I saw some figure
associated with it which was clearly way over way overboard.
And the controversy involves two statues which would be part
of the building over sort of the main entrance one
(02:38):
of Saint Michael and one of Saint Florian, the patron
saints of both police and firefighters.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yes, so when we brought another architect on board, I
was very interested on what the outside of the building
would look like. So we made a lot of changes
the original plan to the outside beside. Again, I wanted
the quinsy look, brick and granite sle eight a copper,
a building that lasts one hundred years.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
And you know, we've been in public art. We've built
a number of statues throughout the city, uh, the you know,
the Adamses and Hancock and number of generals, and so
we had another set of statues that would be attached
to the building at the side of the building. When
we looked at the building, we felt that needed something
and we pushed public art. You know, without downtown developers
(03:26):
and all, we're big on the public art piece and
we felt this building could use some public art. And
we felt, you know what better than you know Michael
is is really the police office is their guy. I don'tkay.
We op police departments around the world and military. A
lot of the military and the army especially units looked
(03:46):
to Michael and the firefighters looked to Florian and Florian
Holland in Dutchess and Uponset. There it's their guy. There's
no you know, there's no requirement to go to church,
it's no requirement to do anything. But we felt it
was a way to honor our police and fire fighters
(04:10):
and their service and the dedication with these two images
on the building. Obviously, Michael stands for truth and justice,
good over evil. Florian was a Roman soldier who was
out of the fire brigade and stands for bravery and dedication.
So you know, they were chosen a long time ago
by a lot of other folks. We just felt it
(04:32):
would add to the beauty of the building, this beautiful
public art, and honor our men and women in uniform.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
And so you get a little bit of pushback now
from the regular cast characters who are somehow offended by
their association with the building. I know that there was
a hearing in front of a Superior Court judge I
think on Friday, if I'm not mistaken, and that's correct,
a lot of you know, a lot of the the
(05:00):
people who are going to obviously going to either be
offended or feign offense. They're the ones who are coming
into court and trying to what prevent you from having
any either of these statues or both of these statues
on the building as I understand that they would be
sort of like exterior to the building. They're not inside
(05:22):
their exterior correct.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
They are exterior there there they would be a fixed
to the faciety of the front of the building.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, and so how long has the what are you
hearing from the citizens of Quincy? You know, obviously there
are going to be some who are in court. We'll
get to them in a couple of minutes. But what's
one of most people in Quincy telling you?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Well, you know, there's a lot of people tell me
they love it. There's some people tell me they're offended
by it. And I have conversations with a lot of
folks out as a men's group speaking to a men's
group with the Council on aging the week before, and
I'm that to raise his in he was concerned. He
said he was a Jewish background and and he didn't
like them. And I, you know, I reminded on that
(06:08):
Moses and the Ten Commandments or the Supreme Court building
in Washington, d c.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
JE if I if I recall correctly.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yes, a great profit and so so I think if
people just calm down and look around. I believe there's
a statue of Moses at the John Adams Courthouse in Boston,
so there there are a lot of images out The
Boston Public Library has a lot of images throughout that building.
And you know, again public art. You know, I don't.
(06:40):
I've heard nothing but positive from the police and firefighters,
and that's what this was all about. We had so
we had twelve citizens who are being representative by the
a c l U in the court. And my guess
is Dan, no matter what happens, either side will appeal.
The Becket Fund has committed to doing a pro bowl
because the city of Quincy in the acl you would
(07:02):
be representing these twelve citizens.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Who's who's representing the city of Quincy pro bono?
Speaker 3 (07:09):
The Beckett Fund, they have a history around the country
doing this. They won a number of cases all the ways.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
That is that I assume is named for Thomas Beckett.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I will see.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yes, indeed, Okay, let's take a break and we'll come back.
We'll chat about it more. I'm going to do a
couple of segments with you. If we can hold off
phone calls until until nine thirty. I guess I just
want to get your perspective out there, because invariably a
(07:43):
lot of these stories are reported, and they're not reported
as fairly as I would like to see them reported.
That you know, this is not separation of church and
state issues as far as I'm concerned, and it's you know,
we have a history of Judeo Christian founders in this country,
(08:03):
and you know the Ten Commandments, you know, they spring
out of both the Old and the New Testament. And
I just don't understand so many people who get so upset.
I mean, if I were living in a different type
country where I was a minority, you know, religiously, or
(08:27):
if I was an atheist, I wouldn't be offended by
an acknowledgment of the historical majority. But and the courts
are now becoming a little more open minded. I've been
looking at a bunch of decisions today where it's not
a cut and dried case at all, and I think
(08:48):
that you have a pretty good chance of actually prevailing
on this case. Some might agree and some might disagree.
We'll take a break. We're going to talk for the
next segment with the mayor of Quincy, Mayor Tom Coke,
who is probably one of the straightest shooting mayors and
that's why he's been in office for so long. Uh
(09:11):
and uh well well respected by by residents as they
turn out for Uh. You're elected on a four term,
four year term, if I recall correctly, Mayor. Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I did four two year terms in the may third
four year term. Okay, the vote has changes.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
To We have to do some mathematics here to figure it,
but it sounds to me like you're probably one of
the most popular mayors, or sort of the equivalent, or
maybe Tom Minino's the equivalent if you when he was
in Boston, someone who I knew you you were good
friends with as well. We'll take a quick break during
night Side if you want to get on board. I'm
going to talk about this after nine thirty, and I'll
(09:49):
give you an opportunity to weigh in as well. Six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.
Will be right back on night Side.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
It's Night Side with Dan Boston's news radio with me.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Is the mayor of Quincy, Massachusetts, Mayor Tom Coke. This
is a controversy. When does the building do to be opened?
That's about still a few months.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Away, correct, Actually, we hope to be moving in there
by early November and then we get Yeah, once we
get everything moved in, then the process will begin of
taking out the old building which is adjacent to the
new building.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Okay, so where are the statutes of Saint Michael and
Saint Florian? Now? Are they attached to the building already?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
No, they're not on the building yet. They're they're en
route to the city. They were built in a studio
in Italy, old school classic, designed by the the sculptor
using clay initially and then eventually a mold is made
in their bronze. This this sculptor, cige Ebon Bakoff, is remarkable.
(11:04):
He did the Adams statues, the Hancock statues, the general statues. Uh.
He did the Eisenhower Memorial in d C. He's world renowned.
He's pretty special. They had a ceremony in the little
town in Italy if I get the town's name. Uh.
And they had the Saint Michael's statue in the middle
of the town and before he was being boxed up.
(11:27):
So Michael and uh in Florida and aaron route to
the city.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Well, I assume that they're probably making the passage by
rail and uh in boat, not necessarily by airplane.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
You got to be careful, that's for sure. Uh. And
when you had HAYI be ask you this, have have
Have they tried to filed some sort of restraining order
so you can't put the statues up? I can't put
the Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yes, essentially that was the the court hearing on Friday was. Uh,
the plaintants were looking for an injunction to keep us
from putting them on the building.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Correct, Boy, I'll tell you generally, I mean, you know
a lot about this. I'm sure you've you've you've studied it.
People need to understand that religious iconography icon icon graphy
(12:30):
of if I'm pronouncing it correctly, it there's plenty of
this in the United States historically, and there's no reason
to say we're going to never put up something like this.
This is this is not an endorsement by the City
of quinsy of Christianity or Catholicism. It is basically a
representation of uh, you know, hopeful safety for your firefighters
(12:54):
and police officers.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah, it's it's uh, these images are really the guys
by their choice. And you know, though the Catholic Church
claims both Michael and Florian, Florian was a Roman soldier,
he wasn't canonised for many, many centuries later. Michael's in
the Quran, He's in the Old Testament, He's he's revered
(13:18):
by Christianity as well. So you know, I, you know,
if we're putting Saint Peter and Saint Paul of the building,
I think there'd be an argument. But with the image
of the using of those images that are associated with
police and fire service, pretty straightforward in my view.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah, I'm sure you weren't in court for the argument,
but did did you I believe your city solicitor, you know,
represented the city. Did he come out of the hearing
feeling that he had been given a good opportunities to
present that your point of view? Wash you just articulated,
he did.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
He felt he felt good about it. He thought the
judge asked him good questions, and you know, he felt
that we were heard. I was chatting with him. I
heard that the judge had asked, rhetorically, you know, what
would John Adams say? What would John Adams do? And
I reminded the solicitor of that great John Adams quote
(14:17):
about the Constitution where he said, the Constitution is for
moral and religious men. For all others it is inadequate.
You know, these these funding fathers were definitely devoted to
the Creator, and many of these they were very religious,
(14:37):
and they crafted a constitution that allowed for everybody. But
they clearly their values are based on the ild Judeo
Christian values, is no question about it for this nation,
you know. As Mayor Dan, I've been in the mosque
in Quincy Point at Rabadan, I've been in the Thai temples,
the Buddhist temples, every Catholic church and most of the
(14:58):
Protestant churches in our city. And when they was a
physical presence of the Jewish community here, they've all since
closed down. I was in those religious edifices as well,
the synagogue in Appoint, et cetera. So we respect everybody
wherever they're at. I represent everybody as the mayor of
the city. There's no sanctioned religion in our city. You know,
(15:22):
it's a diverse city and people who welcome to worship
as they fit. And if you're an atheist, you don't
have to do anything.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yes, yeah, or whatever. But I always like to go
back to the Declaration of Independence July fourth, seventeen seventy six,
which we will celebrate with great pomp and circumstance next
next July. We hold these truths to be self evident,
that all men are created equal, and they are endowed
by their creator capital c have certain unalienable rights that
(15:53):
among them are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Yes, indeed, yeah, yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I just don't understand why there seems to be such
antipathy on the part of some towards towards religion, you know,
religion and religious orders. You know, whether it's the Catholic Church,
Christian churches, or you know, you know, Jewish rabbis. They're
(16:23):
human beings. And I, as someone who's Catholic, was horrified
about the priest pedophile crisis, something that that just still
to this day shocks me. And it shocks me that
the leadership of the church at the time, Cardinal Law
didn't personally ask that those priests who either who had
(16:45):
been been accused of taking advantage of children, that he
didn't have them come into his office so he could
personally take the caller away from them.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
But you know that, I mean, we could spend a
segment on that sometime. I mean that that was mostly
homosexual issues, not pedophilia, and.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
There were a lot there were a lot of children
who were impacted, and kids who were were fourteen fifteen.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah, well pedophilia is a younger age and teenager, but
that's another issue for another day.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
No, no, no, I just didn't know. But I'm saying there's.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Still either at all, believe me.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, well it's yeah, well I understand the distinction you're making.
But you know, when people, whether it's a teacher or
a coach or a clergyman, you know, takes it takes
advantage of a kid thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen years old,
they you know, unacceptable in my opinion.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Agreed, But just one final note on that from my view, Yeah,
the the level of which it happens with teachers and
coaches and stuff is higher than it was percentage wizing
the church. You know that the church was you know,
not very popular with the secular media, and so they
it's a good beating. You don't read about it every
(18:05):
day when it happens around the country and other circumstances.
It's bad and evil in any circumstance, but I don't
believe the media treats it equally in the various situations
where it happens.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, I guess we could. We can agree on the
statutes on that issue. We might disagree in the sense
that I think that as much as coaches and teachers
and all of that, professors have responsibilities. I think that
when you represent an organize religion, the responsibility that rests
on your shoulders, in my opinion, is even greater. But
(18:42):
we'll save that for a conversation some other time. Mayor
Coch thank you very much as always, and best of luck.
I will tell you I hope you prevail because I
think that most if they ever took a poll of
the firefighters and the police officers in Quincy, will for
that matter, state wide. I get a pretty good idea
about what the results of that poll would be. I
(19:05):
think we're yes, that's okay, that's exactly what I was thinking.
You read my mind, uh, Quincy, Mayor Tom Coke, thanks
very much, Mayor Coke. We'll be back on night side.
I want to go to phone calls. Whether you live
in Quinsy or not. Does this really offend you? And
if you want to make the case why it offends you, fine,
(19:27):
But if you also believe that it's it's it's oversensitivity.
The ACLU loves to jump into these debates. Sometimes they prevail,
sometimes they don't. Six one seven, two, five, four, ten
thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty. And
particularly if you happen to be a firefighter or police officer,
(19:49):
because these are the patron saints, if you will, or
those that historically have been used to represent safety, uh
into dangerous professions. I love to hear from you. I
think it's time for people to stand up and express
their point of view, whatever whatever it is. And here
on Nightside, this is a free speech zone. I might
disagree with you, we can have a conversation. That's all
(20:13):
I ask, a conversation that includes you a point of
view in whatever it is. I want this show to represent,
particularly at this time, a place where people feel free.
We've called it North America's Backparts. That's the metaphor we've used. Basically,
a place where all points of view are welcome. Six
(20:33):
one seven, two, four thirty six, one seven, nine, ten thirty.
Back on Nightside, Right after this.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
So I want to find out what people here in
my audience think about the new public safety building in Quinsy,
new Quincy public Safety Municipal Building, which would be graced
if admitted by statutes of Saint Michael the Archangel and
(21:07):
Saint Florian. They are the patron saints of firefighters and
police officers. But again they, as Mayor Coke of Quincy
just explained, you know, they should not be looked upon
as an endorsement of any specific religion. Let me go
(21:28):
first to Joe in Quincy. We have two Joe and
Quincy's here. So this is Joe and Quincy number one. Hi,
Joe and Quincy number one. How are you? How are you?
I'm doing just great? What's your thought on this?
Speaker 4 (21:41):
I live in Quincy, I've lived there for fifty five years.
I'm a police officer, not in Quincy, somewhere else. But
I have no problems with the statutes. If you look
at the Quincy Police station presently, you would wonder how
two hundred people are able to work inside the building. Yeah,
this is nothing fancy that that the mayor is put up.
(22:01):
And this is an addition. I don't see it as
as a Catholic thing, or a Jewish thing, or a
Protestant thing. It was just the symbols of both the
fire and the police department, and that's how it should
be looked at going forward. But you also think that
whatever the topic is, whatever the issue is, you're always
going to have a group of people that are anti everything.
And that seems to be what this group is.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, I had that sense that no matter and it
comes down to even when we get around towards Christmas time,
there'll be some school somewhere where a principal will say
we can have green and red frosting on cupcakes for
children because green and red are the flowers of Christmas,
(22:46):
and that might make some other children concerned. And that
is such a bunch of whoy in my opinion. You know,
you put a bunch of cupcakes in front of kids
anywhere in the world, any religion, non religion, they're gonna
love the cupcakes, whatever the color of the frost that is.
And green and red are your are your Christmas colors?
(23:07):
I will acknowledge that.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
But but they they they go down that you know
they are just intent on wiping out any even imagery,
however distant from organized religion.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And these folks, if they had their way, the only
religion I I call them, you know, they are they
they are atheists. They are they are committed atheists. They're
almost evangelical in their commitment to atheism. So I call
them evangelical atheists, which drives them crazy.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
And if you look at the overall condition of Quinsy,
you'll see very new schools. You'll see parks that are
above beyond any other city of town in and around Quincy,
including Boston. It was a new park Etiquet and Walston
Beach the summer. It's phenomenal. But if you look at
the overall municipal builders and Quincy the top touch and
(24:07):
the Quincy Police, the Quinty Fire Department preserve everything that
gets in this building. And to top it off with
those two statues up front beyond appropriate.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well Joe well well said. And obviously Mayor Koch has
been returned there for several terms, and he must be
doing something that the majority of the voters in Quincy liked,
that's for sure. And appreciate your service as a police officer.
Please stay safe. Okay, thank you, Thank you, Joe, appreciate
(24:38):
the call. Let's keep rolling here at night side. We're
going to go next to Scott and Quincy. Scott, you
were next on nightside.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
Go right ahead, well, and a great show. I know
the mayor and I approve of the statues, and I
think it's a wonderful thing. And he's put up a
lot of great statues around town, Hancock and Atoms and
Abigail Adams of all that. I think he's really trying
(25:07):
to build the town into a really good city where
people who appreciate the historical significance can come and enjoy
a historical experience at Quincy. And like you said, it's
just busy bodies who want to make trouble for people,
and it's just awful.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Oftentimes they like the people who are some somehow concerned
that somewhere some other people are enjoying themselves and they
you know, look if if those statues wish, is he
indicated or done by this artist from Italy. I'm not
(25:49):
an art scholar, so when he mentioned the artist's name,
I don't have any you know, particularly you know, if
we were talking about Roman Anthony the Red Sox rookie
player I have a pretty good sense of I'll go
to player Roman Anthony as although he's injured right now.
But it just bothers me that the evangelical atheists will
(26:14):
not be happy until every potential reference or allusion to
anything dealing with religion or organized religion is banished from
the public square in America, which then will make their
lack of religious belief, their evangelical atheism will then in
effect become the non religion of America. It just troubles me,
(26:37):
That's all I mean. And that's why we talked, why
I wanted to talk about it tonight. That's why I'm
happy to here from you and from Joe. I know
that you're not a police officer, but I'm sure you
have police officer friends and I, as the mayor said,
if they did a poll of the police officers and
the firefighters and Quincy, I suspect it would be overwhelmingly
(26:59):
supportive of this idea.
Speaker 6 (27:01):
Now, Dan, being the constitutional scholar that you are, could
you tell me my belief is that when you talk
about the separation of church and state, it's to prevent
clerical people from being elected to public office, and the
government taking on an element of theocracy as opposed to.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
No, wouldn't necessarily be that. No, I mean there have
there have been people who have been elected to public office.
Who are you. A clergyman, famous clergyman from Massachusetts, Father
Robert Drnen was elected for ten years five terms in
the then was the fourth Congressional district. And it wasn't
until Pope John Paul the second told him to resign
(27:50):
and leave the political arena. He would have stayed there
he was elected. So No, and there's been plenty of
you know, men who or men and women I guess
who have who have been ministers of some sort. No,
what what? What the Constitution says is that, unlike the
Church of England, which was the official Church of England, Uh,
(28:13):
they will never be an official church of the United
States of America. It won't be the Methodist or the Presbyterian,
or the Congregationalist, or the Baptist or the Roman Catholic
or or you know, Reform Judaism or Orthodox Judaism or
Hindu or seek or anything that. All those religions are
(28:34):
to be welcomed, but none of them will be designated
as the official Uh. You know religion of the United
States of America. And that's what you know. The the
First Amendment says Congress shall make no law respecting an
establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. That
(28:56):
encapsulates what the First Amendment means, very eloquently and very directly,
in my.
Speaker 6 (29:02):
Opinion, So the prohibition of separation of church and State
doesn't have anything to do with not allowing clergy members
to be.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Because people, people have served in public office, and I
know that there have been. I think of Father Drying
as the most you know, exam the obviously example as
a Jesuit Roman Catholic Jesuit priest who was elected five
times from the fourth Congressional District in Massachusetts. And it
(29:39):
wasn't his decision to leave Congress. It was upon the
order of then Pope John.
Speaker 6 (29:43):
Paul the second Interesting, I did not know that, and
so I just learned something from you, you know, always
something from.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I learned something from my my callers as well. Scott
has always Thank you so much for supporting the program.
We will continue right after this break. Thank you, buddy, appreciate.
Speaker 6 (30:01):
It, Thanks darn thank you much.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
We have another call from Quincy and I got Matt
and Florida lined up as well, and I got a
little bit of room for a couple more callers if
you'd like six one seven, two, five, four, ten thirty
six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. If you're
offended by the presence of a couple of statues attached
to the new municipal building, the new public Safety building
(30:24):
in Quinsy, which could be opened as early as November,
according to Mayor Coke, a one hundred and seventy million
dollar building with these two statues, one of Saint Michael
and one of Saint Florian, respectively, the protector of police
officers and firefighters, feel free to join the conversation. Six
(30:47):
one seven, two, five four to ten thirty six one seven,
nine three one ten thirty b right back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray. I'm w b Z,
Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Back to the calls. Let's go to Joe number two
in Quincy. Joe, you were second Joe from Quincy.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
Go right ahead, Thanks Dan.
Speaker 7 (31:06):
How are you first time caller?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
First time have to run ahead.
Speaker 7 (31:14):
So I just wanted to say that I have a
different perspective on this and I'm from Quincy, and I
do not support these statues. And what wasn't brought up
in your conversation with the mayor is the only reason
we know about these statues is that someone leaked it
to the press in February. The mayor ordered them in
(31:35):
November of twenty twenty three. He commissioned them and started
sending the city start paying for them in twenty twenty three,
and he didn't mention it once to anyone in twenty
twenty four, and it wasn't n ttil February twenty twenty
five when somebody inside the administration sent it to the
Patriot Ledger. And I believe that the mayor really believed
(31:55):
that there was nothing wrong with erecting these statues. That's
not how it would have been done.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Well. He probably and again I accept everything that you
tell me as being truthful. That I'm not contesting that.
But it could be that he felt that there would
always be someone who would raise a concern. I mentioned
in the last one of the last two callers that
there are some teachers that every Christmas time there will
(32:24):
be some sort of a dispute. Some parent will send
in some cupcakes with green and red frosting.
Speaker 8 (32:30):
And yeah, but then how is that?
Speaker 7 (32:34):
I'm sorry, I didn't mean they're up to like that's
not really how you govern, though, I mean, you don't
shy away from these tough discussions. You know, if people
were going to say something, then make your case, like
put it out there. You know, it's supposed to be transparent.
You know, it's supposed to be accountability. And he spent
nearly a million dollars without telling anyone. He didn't even
(32:55):
have a bidding process. And I understand you're taking my
word for it and you can't know everything, but you.
Speaker 8 (32:59):
Know, you know.
Speaker 7 (33:01):
And the other thing I want to say is you
did you hear the strange defenses that the mayor brought
up when you brought up the priest pedophile scandal. The
mayor is a devout Catholic, and I respect that about him.
I was born, I'm an am Catholic. My parents are
just like the mayor. But I think he's bringing his
ministry into the public square. I think he's bringing it
(33:23):
into his day job. And he's a devout man, and
I respect that, and I wish you know him very well,
but I think he's bringing that into his job as mayor.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Now, well, let me ask him how many times has
had the citizenry of Quincy elected him mayor? I think
he said for two year terms, and this is his
third fourth year term. I'm just trying to do that.
That's going to be at least twenty years.
Speaker 7 (33:49):
Oh yeah, the citizens I mean, he's got quite a following.
And you had said earlier though, the usual cast of
characters are going to have a problem with this. Well,
I would say the usual cast of characters will line
up to defend him, you know, because there's always people
who shout his praise and you know, and that's fine,
that's politics. But there's a lot of people that you're.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Your only beef with it is besides being opposed to
the to the statues themselves. You wish that he had
announced at some point two and a half years ago
that it was his intention to have these statues mounted
on the front of the building.
Speaker 7 (34:22):
Yeah, if he really felt it was a good idea,
bring it to the public, bring it to city council,
have the debate.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Right, Okay, So let's assume that city council approved it,
and let's say that I don't know, let's say eighty
percent of the people in Quincy approved it. Would you
at that point then have said to the aca you look,
you know, he brought it out publicly. There's no need
to have a lawsuit here.
Speaker 7 (34:46):
Let's let's alle That's a good question, because I was
one of the people that wrote to the ACLU saying, hey,
you should look at this.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
You know what, had that changed you? You would have
you even if eighty percent of the people, or ninety
percent of the firefighters, ninety percent of the police officers,
you know, supported it, you still would have your objection,
which I respect.
Speaker 7 (35:07):
I'm just saying that I would. Yeah, No, you're right,
and it's a good point, But aren't you Dan You're right,
You're right. Even if he had done it the right way,
I would still have an objection to it, but it
sure would feel a lot better than it does, Okay.
And I would say that he likes to leave out
that Counselor Mitton was a forty year police veteran is
also against the statues. And I don't know why. I mean,
(35:29):
that's just one voice, but you know.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
We would be better as a society if we had
more Judeo Christian respect and traditions in this country. Where
are Judaeo Christian country? It's not necessarily a Christian country
Old Testament New Testament. I don't need to let sue
you about that. I just think that and a lot
of the principles of other religions, whether it's Hindu or
(35:55):
Sikh or or Muslim, they kind of very much that
they bring from the same sort of Well, if you will,
I got one more Joe, I'd like to get in.
I'm so glad you called. I'm so glad uh that
you sent me that email today as well, And please
continue to listen to Night Side. Your point of view
will always be respected here.
Speaker 7 (36:14):
All right, Thank Dan, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Let's go too. My buddy Matt in Florida. Matt, I
have no idea what you're going to say on this one.
What what say you?
Speaker 8 (36:22):
My friend who I used to live in Quincy for
thirty years and part of the reason I left Quincy
and I couldn't wait to leave Quincy is that guy
that mayor No, no, no, it's not funny, Dan. This
guy is unbelievable. This guy spends money. There's gonna be
one day, there's gonna be something's gonna somebody is gonna
be walking out of Quincy City Hall and handcuffs because
(36:43):
this guy spends money like a drunken sailor. And that's
a that's your line. Who cares what the statues of
This guy spends and spends and spends. No one who's
grew up in Quincy can afford to live there. He
commissions eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars statues without telling
anybody about it. And yeah, all his buddies are all
(37:04):
the contractors who build all the high rise buildings there.
Those are people who come out and vote for the guy.
That's why he keeps getting re elected. It's it's it's
a that last caller was on point a billion percent,
And you know that's why I'm calling. That's why I'm
angry because I used to love to grow up in
Quinsy and it's becoming Summerville. It's becoming it's not what
(37:26):
it used to be. And it's all this guy's fault.
And thanks for letting me get on my soapbox a
little bit. But that's just the reality of it. And yeah,
super bizarre defense there of the church. Uh, I won't
get into it because that's like like a different topic.
But yeah, that was pretty bizarre, pretty bizarre by him.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
I didn't get into it either, but I.
Speaker 8 (37:49):
Do some researcher on this guy, do some research on
the way this city's run or not this city.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
But I assume that there's still holding free elections in
the city of Quincy, to the best of my all,
and he's a long term serving mayor. I understand your
concern he has from what I understand that I'm not
a Quincy resident nor a native uh, so I do
understand that that he's he has had plenty of you know,
(38:15):
uh iconography, I think is how I pronounced the word correctly. Finally,
of John Adams, uh and uh John Quincy Adams and
uh Quincy has this great historic history about it. Why
not celebrate it?
Speaker 8 (38:33):
And maybe that's fine. He's done a great job too,
ta his credit, his credit, he's done great job in
that aspect of it. But he's getting very spoiled with
his job. He thinks he's a king of Quincy. And
and thank god I live nowhere near there anymore.
Speaker 7 (38:48):
Thank you, I haven't talked to you in a while.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Thanks for coming by. I thought I thought that maybe
you had left the country, so uh.
Speaker 8 (38:55):
I should. The way things are going this country is.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Me that you're happy in Florida.
Speaker 8 (39:02):
I know that's all, okay, Thanks, thanks very much.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
We get back, going to talk about the recognition of
Palestinian state. UH and Jeff Robbins will be joining us.
We'll be back right after this on night Side.
It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, there's a controversy going on in Quinsy. It doesn't
really bother me, but I bother some people in Quincy,
and it doesn't bother the mayor with us as the
mayor of Quincy, Tom Coke, Mayor Coke, welcome back to Nightside.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
How are you good to be with you? Dan So.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Quincy is building a new state of the art public
safety building, which I guess is going to house both
the police and fire departments. This is this is a
great development for Quincy.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
It is it's it's well, how is the police department?
It's an entirety of the fire administration will be in
this as well as emergency management administration. There'll be no
apparatus the fire in the building, but all the admin
pieces to it.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I assume the fire appara. Quinsey is a pretty big city.
How many residents do you have? You are you one
hundred thousand?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
At this point we're about one hundred and five thousand.
We've got eight fire houses.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, so spread which of course they have to be
spread around the city geographically. And the public safety building,
I assume there's federal money and some city money and
maybe some state money. It's it's, it's. These are buildings
that have built probably once every thirty or forty years. Correct.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yes, you'll get a chance too often to build beautiful
municipal buildings. We run a fifth to do school. But
there is a program with the state, the School Building
Authority that assist municipalities with that. The public Safety headquarters
is it's city money only. There is no federal money
at all, no state money involved.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Oh okay, and it's I think I read something. It's
about one hundred about eight hundred and fifty million dollars.
I mean, it's it's, it's it's good.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
One hundred and fifty million dollars. How much I'm about
one hundred and seventy million total, But that includes road work,
moving the homeless shelter utilities, a lot of pieces around
the building, not just the building itself.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Okay, all right, so it's one hundred and seventy that's
that's a little. For some reason, I saw some figure
associated with it which was clearly way over way overboard.
And the controversy involves two statues which would be part
of the building over sort of the main entrance one
(02:38):
of Saint Michael and one of Saint Florian, the patron
saints of both police and firefighters.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yes, so when we brought another architect on board, I
was very interested on what the outside of the building
would look like. So we made a lot of changes
the original plan to the outside beside. Again, I wanted
the quinsy look, brick and granite sle eight a copper,
a building that lasts one hundred years.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
And you know, we've been in public art. We've built
a number of statues throughout the city, uh, the you know,
the Adamses and Hancock and number of generals, and so
we had another set of statues that would be attached
to the building at the side of the building. When
we looked at the building, we felt that needed something
and we pushed public art. You know, without downtown developers
(03:26):
and all, we're big on the public art piece and
we felt this building could use some public art. And
we felt, you know what better than you know Michael
is is really the police office is their guy. I don'tkay.
We op police departments around the world and military. A
lot of the military and the army especially units looked
(03:46):
to Michael and the firefighters looked to Florian and Florian
Holland in Dutchess and Uponset. There it's their guy. There's
no you know, there's no requirement to go to church,
it's no requirement to do anything. But we felt it
was a way to honor our police and fire fighters
(04:10):
and their service and the dedication with these two images
on the building. Obviously, Michael stands for truth and justice,
good over evil. Florian was a Roman soldier who was
out of the fire brigade and stands for bravery and dedication.
So you know, they were chosen a long time ago
by a lot of other folks. We just felt it
(04:32):
would add to the beauty of the building, this beautiful
public art, and honor our men and women in uniform.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
And so you get a little bit of pushback now
from the regular cast characters who are somehow offended by
their association with the building. I know that there was
a hearing in front of a Superior Court judge I
think on Friday, if I'm not mistaken, and that's correct,
a lot of you know, a lot of the the
(05:00):
people who are going to obviously going to either be
offended or feign offense. They're the ones who are coming
into court and trying to what prevent you from having
any either of these statues or both of these statues
on the building as I understand that they would be
sort of like exterior to the building. They're not inside
(05:22):
their exterior correct.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
They are exterior there there they would be a fixed
to the faciety of the front of the building.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, and so how long has the what are you
hearing from the citizens of Quincy? You know, obviously there
are going to be some who are in court. We'll
get to them in a couple of minutes. But what's
one of most people in Quincy telling you?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Well, you know, there's a lot of people tell me
they love it. There's some people tell me they're offended
by it. And I have conversations with a lot of
folks out as a men's group speaking to a men's
group with the Council on aging the week before, and
I'm that to raise his in he was concerned. He
said he was a Jewish background and and he didn't
like them. And I, you know, I reminded on that
(06:08):
Moses and the Ten Commandments or the Supreme Court building
in Washington, d c.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
JE if I if I recall correctly.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yes, a great profit and so so I think if
people just calm down and look around. I believe there's
a statue of Moses at the John Adams Courthouse in Boston,
so there there are a lot of images out The
Boston Public Library has a lot of images throughout that building.
And you know, again public art. You know, I don't.
(06:40):
I've heard nothing but positive from the police and firefighters,
and that's what this was all about. We had so
we had twelve citizens who are being representative by the
a c l U in the court. And my guess
is Dan, no matter what happens, either side will appeal.
The Becket Fund has committed to doing a pro bowl
because the city of Quincy in the acl you would
(07:02):
be representing these twelve citizens.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Who's who's representing the city of Quincy pro bono?
Speaker 3 (07:09):
The Beckett Fund, they have a history around the country
doing this. They won a number of cases all the ways.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
That is that I assume is named for Thomas Beckett.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I will see.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yes, indeed, Okay, let's take a break and we'll come back.
We'll chat about it more. I'm going to do a
couple of segments with you. If we can hold off
phone calls until until nine thirty. I guess I just
want to get your perspective out there, because invariably a
(07:43):
lot of these stories are reported, and they're not reported
as fairly as I would like to see them reported.
That you know, this is not separation of church and
state issues as far as I'm concerned, and it's you know,
we have a history of Judeo Christian founders in this country,
(08:03):
and you know the Ten Commandments, you know, they spring
out of both the Old and the New Testament. And
I just don't understand so many people who get so upset.
I mean, if I were living in a different type
country where I was a minority, you know, religiously, or
(08:27):
if I was an atheist, I wouldn't be offended by
an acknowledgment of the historical majority. But and the courts
are now becoming a little more open minded. I've been
looking at a bunch of decisions today where it's not
a cut and dried case at all, and I think
(08:48):
that you have a pretty good chance of actually prevailing
on this case. Some might agree and some might disagree.
We'll take a break. We're going to talk for the
next segment with the mayor of Quincy, Mayor Tom Coke,
who is probably one of the straightest shooting mayors and
that's why he's been in office for so long. Uh
(09:11):
and uh well well respected by by residents as they
turn out for Uh. You're elected on a four term,
four year term, if I recall correctly, Mayor. Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I did four two year terms in the may third
four year term. Okay, the vote has changes.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
To We have to do some mathematics here to figure it,
but it sounds to me like you're probably one of
the most popular mayors, or sort of the equivalent, or
maybe Tom Minino's the equivalent if you when he was
in Boston, someone who I knew you you were good
friends with as well. We'll take a quick break during
night Side if you want to get on board. I'm
going to talk about this after nine thirty, and I'll
(09:49):
give you an opportunity to weigh in as well. Six one, seven, two, five,
four ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.
Will be right back on night Side.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
It's Night Side with Dan Boston's news radio with me.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Is the mayor of Quincy, Massachusetts, Mayor Tom Coke. This
is a controversy. When does the building do to be opened?
That's about still a few months.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Away, correct, Actually, we hope to be moving in there
by early November and then we get Yeah, once we
get everything moved in, then the process will begin of
taking out the old building which is adjacent to the
new building.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Okay, so where are the statutes of Saint Michael and
Saint Florian? Now? Are they attached to the building already?
Speaker 3 (10:39):
No, they're not on the building yet. They're they're en
route to the city. They were built in a studio
in Italy, old school classic, designed by the the sculptor
using clay initially and then eventually a mold is made
in their bronze. This this sculptor, cige Ebon Bakoff, is remarkable.
(11:04):
He did the Adams statues, the Hancock statues, the general statues. Uh.
He did the Eisenhower Memorial in d C. He's world renowned.
He's pretty special. They had a ceremony in the little
town in Italy if I get the town's name. Uh.
And they had the Saint Michael's statue in the middle
of the town and before he was being boxed up.
(11:27):
So Michael and uh in Florida and aaron route to
the city.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Well, I assume that they're probably making the passage by
rail and uh in boat, not necessarily by airplane.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
You got to be careful, that's for sure. Uh. And
when you had HAYI be ask you this, have have
Have they tried to filed some sort of restraining order
so you can't put the statues up? I can't put
the Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yes, essentially that was the the court hearing on Friday was. Uh,
the plaintants were looking for an injunction to keep us
from putting them on the building.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Correct, Boy, I'll tell you generally, I mean, you know
a lot about this. I'm sure you've you've you've studied it.
People need to understand that religious iconography icon icon graphy
(12:30):
of if I'm pronouncing it correctly, it there's plenty of
this in the United States historically, and there's no reason
to say we're going to never put up something like this.
This is this is not an endorsement by the City
of quinsy of Christianity or Catholicism. It is basically a
representation of uh, you know, hopeful safety for your firefighters
(12:54):
and police officers.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah, it's it's uh, these images are really the guys
by their choice. And you know, though the Catholic Church
claims both Michael and Florian, Florian was a Roman soldier,
he wasn't canonised for many, many centuries later. Michael's in
the Quran, He's in the Old Testament, He's he's revered
(13:18):
by Christianity as well. So you know, I, you know,
if we're putting Saint Peter and Saint Paul of the building,
I think there'd be an argument. But with the image
of the using of those images that are associated with
police and fire service, pretty straightforward in my view.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah, I'm sure you weren't in court for the argument,
but did did you I believe your city solicitor, you know,
represented the city. Did he come out of the hearing
feeling that he had been given a good opportunities to
present that your point of view? Wash you just articulated,
he did.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
He felt he felt good about it. He thought the
judge asked him good questions, and you know, he felt
that we were heard. I was chatting with him. I
heard that the judge had asked, rhetorically, you know, what
would John Adams say? What would John Adams do? And
I reminded the solicitor of that great John Adams quote
(14:17):
about the Constitution where he said, the Constitution is for
moral and religious men. For all others it is inadequate.
You know, these these funding fathers were definitely devoted to
the Creator, and many of these they were very religious,
(14:37):
and they crafted a constitution that allowed for everybody. But
they clearly their values are based on the ild Judeo
Christian values, is no question about it for this nation,
you know. As Mayor Dan, I've been in the mosque
in Quincy Point at Rabadan, I've been in the Thai temples,
the Buddhist temples, every Catholic church and most of the
(14:58):
Protestant churches in our city. And when they was a
physical presence of the Jewish community here, they've all since
closed down. I was in those religious edifices as well,
the synagogue in Appoint, et cetera. So we respect everybody
wherever they're at. I represent everybody as the mayor of
the city. There's no sanctioned religion in our city. You know,
(15:22):
it's a diverse city and people who welcome to worship
as they fit. And if you're an atheist, you don't
have to do anything.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yes, yeah, or whatever. But I always like to go
back to the Declaration of Independence July fourth, seventeen seventy six,
which we will celebrate with great pomp and circumstance next
next July. We hold these truths to be self evident,
that all men are created equal, and they are endowed
by their creator capital c have certain unalienable rights that
(15:53):
among them are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Yes, indeed, yeah, yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
I just don't understand why there seems to be such
antipathy on the part of some towards towards religion, you know,
religion and religious orders. You know, whether it's the Catholic Church,
Christian churches, or you know, you know, Jewish rabbis. They're
(16:23):
human beings. And I, as someone who's Catholic, was horrified
about the priest pedophile crisis, something that that just still
to this day shocks me. And it shocks me that
the leadership of the church at the time, Cardinal Law
didn't personally ask that those priests who either who had
(16:45):
been been accused of taking advantage of children, that he
didn't have them come into his office so he could
personally take the caller away from them.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
But you know that, I mean, we could spend a
segment on that sometime. I mean that that was mostly
homosexual issues, not pedophilia, and.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
There were a lot there were a lot of children
who were impacted, and kids who were were fourteen fifteen.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah, well pedophilia is a younger age and teenager, but
that's another issue for another day.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
No, no, no, I just didn't know. But I'm saying there's.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Still either at all, believe me.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, well it's yeah, well I understand the distinction you're making.
But you know, when people, whether it's a teacher or
a coach or a clergyman, you know, takes it takes
advantage of a kid thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen years old,
they you know, unacceptable in my opinion.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Agreed, But just one final note on that from my view, Yeah,
the the level of which it happens with teachers and
coaches and stuff is higher than it was percentage wizing
the church. You know that the church was you know,
not very popular with the secular media, and so they
it's a good beating. You don't read about it every
(18:05):
day when it happens around the country and other circumstances.
It's bad and evil in any circumstance, but I don't
believe the media treats it equally in the various situations
where it happens.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, I guess we could. We can agree on the
statutes on that issue. We might disagree in the sense
that I think that as much as coaches and teachers
and all of that, professors have responsibilities. I think that
when you represent an organize religion, the responsibility that rests
on your shoulders, in my opinion, is even greater. But
(18:42):
we'll save that for a conversation some other time. Mayor
Coch thank you very much as always, and best of luck.
I will tell you I hope you prevail because I
think that most if they ever took a poll of
the firefighters and the police officers in Quincy, will for
that matter, state wide. I get a pretty good idea
about what the results of that poll would be. I
(19:05):
think we're yes, that's okay, that's exactly what I was thinking.
You read my mind, uh, Quincy, Mayor Tom Coke, thanks
very much, Mayor Coke. We'll be back on night side.
I want to go to phone calls. Whether you live
in Quinsy or not. Does this really offend you? And
if you want to make the case why it offends you, fine,
(19:27):
But if you also believe that it's it's it's oversensitivity.
The ACLU loves to jump into these debates. Sometimes they prevail,
sometimes they don't. Six one seven, two, five, four, ten
thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty. And
particularly if you happen to be a firefighter or police officer,
(19:49):
because these are the patron saints, if you will, or
those that historically have been used to represent safety, uh
into dangerous professions. I love to hear from you. I
think it's time for people to stand up and express
their point of view, whatever whatever it is. And here
on Nightside, this is a free speech zone. I might
disagree with you, we can have a conversation. That's all
(20:13):
I ask, a conversation that includes you a point of
view in whatever it is. I want this show to represent,
particularly at this time, a place where people feel free.
We've called it North America's Backparts. That's the metaphor we've used. Basically,
a place where all points of view are welcome. Six
(20:33):
one seven, two, four thirty six, one seven, nine, ten thirty.
Back on Nightside, Right after this.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
It's Nightside with Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
So I want to find out what people here in
my audience think about the new public safety building in Quinsy,
new Quincy public Safety Municipal Building, which would be graced
if admitted by statutes of Saint Michael the Archangel and
(21:07):
Saint Florian. They are the patron saints of firefighters and
police officers. But again they, as Mayor Coke of Quincy
just explained, you know, they should not be looked upon
as an endorsement of any specific religion. Let me go
(21:28):
first to Joe in Quincy. We have two Joe and
Quincy's here. So this is Joe and Quincy number one. Hi,
Joe and Quincy number one. How are you? How are you?
I'm doing just great? What's your thought on this?
Speaker 4 (21:41):
I live in Quincy, I've lived there for fifty five years.
I'm a police officer, not in Quincy, somewhere else. But
I have no problems with the statutes. If you look
at the Quincy Police station presently, you would wonder how
two hundred people are able to work inside the building. Yeah,
this is nothing fancy that that the mayor is put up.
(22:01):
And this is an addition. I don't see it as
as a Catholic thing, or a Jewish thing, or a
Protestant thing. It was just the symbols of both the
fire and the police department, and that's how it should
be looked at going forward. But you also think that
whatever the topic is, whatever the issue is, you're always
going to have a group of people that are anti everything.
And that seems to be what this group is.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, I had that sense that no matter and it
comes down to even when we get around towards Christmas time,
there'll be some school somewhere where a principal will say
we can have green and red frosting on cupcakes for
children because green and red are the flowers of Christmas,
(22:46):
and that might make some other children concerned. And that
is such a bunch of whoy in my opinion. You know,
you put a bunch of cupcakes in front of kids
anywhere in the world, any religion, non religion, they're gonna
love the cupcakes, whatever the color of the frost that is.
And green and red are your are your Christmas colors?
(23:07):
I will acknowledge that.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
But but they they they go down that you know
they are just intent on wiping out any even imagery,
however distant from organized religion.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And these folks, if they had their way, the only
religion I I call them, you know, they are they
they are atheists. They are they are committed atheists. They're
almost evangelical in their commitment to atheism. So I call
them evangelical atheists, which drives them crazy.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
And if you look at the overall condition of Quinsy,
you'll see very new schools. You'll see parks that are
above beyond any other city of town in and around Quincy,
including Boston. It was a new park Etiquet and Walston
Beach the summer. It's phenomenal. But if you look at
the overall municipal builders and Quincy the top touch and
(24:07):
the Quincy Police, the Quinty Fire Department preserve everything that
gets in this building. And to top it off with
those two statues up front beyond appropriate.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well Joe well well said. And obviously Mayor Koch has
been returned there for several terms, and he must be
doing something that the majority of the voters in Quincy liked,
that's for sure. And appreciate your service as a police officer.
Please stay safe. Okay, thank you, Thank you, Joe, appreciate
(24:38):
the call. Let's keep rolling here at night side. We're
going to go next to Scott and Quincy. Scott, you
were next on nightside.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
Go right ahead, well, and a great show. I know
the mayor and I approve of the statues, and I
think it's a wonderful thing. And he's put up a
lot of great statues around town, Hancock and Atoms and
Abigail Adams of all that. I think he's really trying
(25:07):
to build the town into a really good city where
people who appreciate the historical significance can come and enjoy
a historical experience at Quincy. And like you said, it's
just busy bodies who want to make trouble for people,
and it's just awful.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Oftentimes they like the people who are some somehow concerned
that somewhere some other people are enjoying themselves and they
you know, look if if those statues wish, is he
indicated or done by this artist from Italy. I'm not
(25:49):
an art scholar, so when he mentioned the artist's name,
I don't have any you know, particularly you know, if
we were talking about Roman Anthony the Red Sox rookie
player I have a pretty good sense of I'll go
to player Roman Anthony as although he's injured right now.
But it just bothers me that the evangelical atheists will
(26:14):
not be happy until every potential reference or allusion to
anything dealing with religion or organized religion is banished from
the public square in America, which then will make their
lack of religious belief, their evangelical atheism will then in
effect become the non religion of America. It just troubles me,
(26:37):
That's all I mean. And that's why we talked, why
I wanted to talk about it tonight. That's why I'm
happy to here from you and from Joe. I know
that you're not a police officer, but I'm sure you
have police officer friends and I, as the mayor said,
if they did a poll of the police officers and
the firefighters and Quincy, I suspect it would be overwhelmingly
(26:59):
supportive of this idea.
Speaker 6 (27:01):
Now, Dan, being the constitutional scholar that you are, could
you tell me my belief is that when you talk
about the separation of church and state, it's to prevent
clerical people from being elected to public office, and the
government taking on an element of theocracy as opposed to.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
No, wouldn't necessarily be that. No, I mean there have
there have been people who have been elected to public office.
Who are you. A clergyman, famous clergyman from Massachusetts, Father
Robert Drnen was elected for ten years five terms in
the then was the fourth Congressional district. And it wasn't
until Pope John Paul the second told him to resign
(27:50):
and leave the political arena. He would have stayed there
he was elected. So No, and there's been plenty of
you know, men who or men and women I guess
who have who have been ministers of some sort. No,
what what? What the Constitution says is that, unlike the
Church of England, which was the official Church of England, Uh,
(28:13):
they will never be an official church of the United
States of America. It won't be the Methodist or the Presbyterian,
or the Congregationalist, or the Baptist or the Roman Catholic
or or you know, Reform Judaism or Orthodox Judaism or
Hindu or seek or anything that. All those religions are
(28:34):
to be welcomed, but none of them will be designated
as the official Uh. You know religion of the United
States of America. And that's what you know. The the
First Amendment says Congress shall make no law respecting an
establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. That
(28:56):
encapsulates what the First Amendment means, very eloquently and very directly,
in my.
Speaker 6 (29:02):
Opinion, So the prohibition of separation of church and State
doesn't have anything to do with not allowing clergy members
to be.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Because people, people have served in public office, and I
know that there have been. I think of Father Drying
as the most you know, exam the obviously example as
a Jesuit Roman Catholic Jesuit priest who was elected five
times from the fourth Congressional District in Massachusetts. And it
(29:39):
wasn't his decision to leave Congress. It was upon the
order of then Pope John.
Speaker 6 (29:43):
Paul the second Interesting, I did not know that, and
so I just learned something from you, you know, always
something from.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I learned something from my my callers as well. Scott
has always Thank you so much for supporting the program.
We will continue right after this break. Thank you, buddy, appreciate.
Speaker 6 (30:01):
It, Thanks darn thank you much.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
We have another call from Quincy and I got Matt
and Florida lined up as well, and I got a
little bit of room for a couple more callers if
you'd like six one seven, two, five, four, ten thirty
six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. If you're
offended by the presence of a couple of statues attached
to the new municipal building, the new public Safety building
(30:24):
in Quinsy, which could be opened as early as November,
according to Mayor Coke, a one hundred and seventy million
dollar building with these two statues, one of Saint Michael
and one of Saint Florian, respectively, the protector of police
officers and firefighters, feel free to join the conversation. Six
(30:47):
one seven, two, five four to ten thirty six one seven,
nine three one ten thirty b right back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray. I'm w b Z,
Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Back to the calls. Let's go to Joe number two
in Quincy. Joe, you were second Joe from Quincy.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
Go right ahead, Thanks Dan.
Speaker 7 (31:06):
How are you first time caller?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
First time have to run ahead.
Speaker 7 (31:14):
So I just wanted to say that I have a
different perspective on this and I'm from Quincy, and I
do not support these statues. And what wasn't brought up
in your conversation with the mayor is the only reason
we know about these statues is that someone leaked it
to the press in February. The mayor ordered them in
(31:35):
November of twenty twenty three. He commissioned them and started
sending the city start paying for them in twenty twenty three,
and he didn't mention it once to anyone in twenty
twenty four, and it wasn't n ttil February twenty twenty
five when somebody inside the administration sent it to the
Patriot Ledger. And I believe that the mayor really believed
(31:55):
that there was nothing wrong with erecting these statues. That's
not how it would have been done.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Well. He probably and again I accept everything that you
tell me as being truthful. That I'm not contesting that.
But it could be that he felt that there would
always be someone who would raise a concern. I mentioned
in the last one of the last two callers that
there are some teachers that every Christmas time there will
(32:24):
be some sort of a dispute. Some parent will send
in some cupcakes with green and red frosting.
Speaker 8 (32:30):
And yeah, but then how is that?
Speaker 7 (32:34):
I'm sorry, I didn't mean they're up to like that's
not really how you govern, though, I mean, you don't
shy away from these tough discussions. You know, if people
were going to say something, then make your case, like
put it out there. You know, it's supposed to be transparent.
You know, it's supposed to be accountability. And he spent
nearly a million dollars without telling anyone. He didn't even
(32:55):
have a bidding process. And I understand you're taking my
word for it and you can't know everything, but you.
Speaker 8 (32:59):
Know, you know.
Speaker 7 (33:01):
And the other thing I want to say is you
did you hear the strange defenses that the mayor brought
up when you brought up the priest pedophile scandal. The
mayor is a devout Catholic, and I respect that about him.
I was born, I'm an am Catholic. My parents are
just like the mayor. But I think he's bringing his
ministry into the public square. I think he's bringing it
(33:23):
into his day job. And he's a devout man, and
I respect that, and I wish you know him very well,
but I think he's bringing that into his job as mayor.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Now, well, let me ask him how many times has
had the citizenry of Quincy elected him mayor? I think
he said for two year terms, and this is his
third fourth year term. I'm just trying to do that.
That's going to be at least twenty years.
Speaker 7 (33:49):
Oh yeah, the citizens I mean, he's got quite a following.
And you had said earlier though, the usual cast of
characters are going to have a problem with this. Well,
I would say the usual cast of characters will line
up to defend him, you know, because there's always people
who shout his praise and you know, and that's fine,
that's politics. But there's a lot of people that you're.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Your only beef with it is besides being opposed to
the to the statues themselves. You wish that he had
announced at some point two and a half years ago
that it was his intention to have these statues mounted
on the front of the building.
Speaker 7 (34:22):
Yeah, if he really felt it was a good idea,
bring it to the public, bring it to city council,
have the debate.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Right, Okay, So let's assume that city council approved it,
and let's say that I don't know, let's say eighty
percent of the people in Quincy approved it. Would you
at that point then have said to the aca you look,
you know, he brought it out publicly. There's no need
to have a lawsuit here.
Speaker 7 (34:46):
Let's let's alle That's a good question, because I was
one of the people that wrote to the ACLU saying, hey,
you should look at this.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
You know what, had that changed you? You would have
you even if eighty percent of the people, or ninety
percent of the firefighters, ninety percent of the police officers,
you know, supported it, you still would have your objection,
which I respect.
Speaker 7 (35:07):
I'm just saying that I would. Yeah, No, you're right,
and it's a good point, But aren't you Dan You're right,
You're right. Even if he had done it the right way,
I would still have an objection to it, but it
sure would feel a lot better than it does, Okay.
And I would say that he likes to leave out
that Counselor Mitton was a forty year police veteran is
also against the statues. And I don't know why. I mean,
(35:29):
that's just one voice, but you know.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
We would be better as a society if we had
more Judeo Christian respect and traditions in this country. Where
are Judaeo Christian country? It's not necessarily a Christian country
Old Testament New Testament. I don't need to let sue
you about that. I just think that and a lot
of the principles of other religions, whether it's Hindu or
(35:55):
Sikh or or Muslim, they kind of very much that
they bring from the same sort of Well, if you will,
I got one more Joe, I'd like to get in.
I'm so glad you called. I'm so glad uh that
you sent me that email today as well, And please
continue to listen to Night Side. Your point of view
will always be respected here.
Speaker 7 (36:14):
All right, Thank Dan, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Let's go too. My buddy Matt in Florida. Matt, I
have no idea what you're going to say on this one.
What what say you?
Speaker 8 (36:22):
My friend who I used to live in Quincy for
thirty years and part of the reason I left Quincy
and I couldn't wait to leave Quincy is that guy
that mayor No, no, no, it's not funny, Dan. This
guy is unbelievable. This guy spends money. There's gonna be
one day, there's gonna be something's gonna somebody is gonna
be walking out of Quincy City Hall and handcuffs because
(36:43):
this guy spends money like a drunken sailor. And that's
a that's your line. Who cares what the statues of
This guy spends and spends and spends. No one who's
grew up in Quincy can afford to live there. He
commissions eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars statues without telling
anybody about it. And yeah, all his buddies are all
(37:04):
the contractors who build all the high rise buildings there.
Those are people who come out and vote for the guy.
That's why he keeps getting re elected. It's it's it's
a that last caller was on point a billion percent,
And you know that's why I'm calling. That's why I'm
angry because I used to love to grow up in
Quinsy and it's becoming Summerville. It's becoming it's not what
(37:26):
it used to be. And it's all this guy's fault.
And thanks for letting me get on my soapbox a
little bit. But that's just the reality of it. And yeah,
super bizarre defense there of the church. Uh, I won't
get into it because that's like like a different topic.
But yeah, that was pretty bizarre, pretty bizarre by him.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
I didn't get into it either, but I.
Speaker 8 (37:49):
Do some researcher on this guy, do some research on
the way this city's run or not this city.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
But I assume that there's still holding free elections in
the city of Quincy, to the best of my all,
and he's a long term serving mayor. I understand your
concern he has from what I understand that I'm not
a Quincy resident nor a native uh, so I do
understand that that he's he has had plenty of you know,
(38:15):
uh iconography, I think is how I pronounced the word correctly. Finally,
of John Adams, uh and uh John Quincy Adams and
uh Quincy has this great historic history about it. Why
not celebrate it?
Speaker 8 (38:33):
And maybe that's fine. He's done a great job too,
ta his credit, his credit, he's done great job in
that aspect of it. But he's getting very spoiled with
his job. He thinks he's a king of Quincy. And
and thank god I live nowhere near there anymore.
Speaker 7 (38:48):
Thank you, I haven't talked to you in a while.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Thanks for coming by. I thought I thought that maybe
you had left the country, so uh.
Speaker 8 (38:55):
I should. The way things are going this country is.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Me that you're happy in Florida.
Speaker 8 (39:02):
I know that's all, okay, Thanks, thanks very much.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
We get back, going to talk about the recognition of
Palestinian state. UH and Jeff Robbins will be joining us.
We'll be back right after this on night Side.
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