December 31, 2025 • 40 mins
Bradley Jay Filled In On NightSide with Dan Rea:
The American Revolution was an eight-year battle, fought primarily in Lexington, Concord, and Boston. However, many outlying towns in Massachusetts played a vital role during the early conflict. Framingham, Springfield, Marshfield, and Great Barrington provided manpower and resources which ultimately led to victory. Learn more as Bradley talked with Bob Allison, Professor of History at Suffolk University.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's NIC's Eyes with Dan Ray. I'm going easy Boston's
news Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
It is night Side. Bradley Jay for Dan Colin joined
the conversation tonight six, one, seven, five, four, ten thirty.
And remember you can listen to Nightside anytime. You can
google Nightside on demand and you can listen to WBZ
News Radio ten thirty live of course, but online at
the iHeartRadio app. And that's easy, and it's all good.
(00:29):
We have one of my favorite guests, Bob Allison, who
is a professor of history at Suffolk University, and he
is on the the Chief I Guess of the Advisory
Board for a Revolution two fifteen, organization dedicated to marking
events related to the Revolution. Hello, Bob, let me ask
you right out of the gate. Are there any events
(00:52):
that took place significant events that took place on a
New Year's Eve during the Revolution.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Well, two hundred and fifty years ago today, American forces
were trying to capture Quebec, the citadel of Quebec, the
capital of Canada. The Americans actually occupied Montreal. A force
had gone up there hoping to get the French Canadians
to join them in the resistance, but it went somewhat okay,
(01:17):
The French really wanted to see the Americans take Quebec.
The British governor Guy Carlton had managed to get there
ahead of them. Benedict Arnold had led an army up.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yes, why did the French want us to take Quebec
just to kind of prove that we had a shot.
So maybe they they.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Had already been through well, fifteen years earlier, the British
had taken Canada from the French, and the French folks
who were there were a little wary now of getting
into a fight between the British and other British the Americans,
and why would we subside with them? They could see
some of the rationale. Actually, some of the folks supporting
the Americans were English folks who had gone there after
(01:53):
England had taken Canada. Kind of a complicated story. But
the Americans thought, yes, they'll join us in this war
against the British because we don't want the British Empire
running things here. But some of the French said, well,
we're happy the British basically left us alone. They let
us keep remain Catholic and aren't taxing us the way
they are the Americans, but some we fear what might happen.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
And anything bad for the British was good for the
French at that time, right.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
It was, although these folks had kind of made their
peace with the British being in charge, and Guy Carlton,
who was the Governor General of Canada, was a pretty
effective guy in keeping the peace. And he manages to
escape as the Americans are taking Montreal. The Americans actually
have boats on the Saint Lawrence River, and he manages
to get away from them, gets to Quebec and knows
(02:43):
all he needs to do is stay there. The Americans
are trying to attack Quebec. If the British come out
and fight, then the Americans could take Quebec. But he
stays inside.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
And I wanted to say, for a while Montreal was American,
but we weren't really. We went the US yet.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
We weren't the US, but Americans. The Americans were occupying Montreal.
There were some English folks there who were supportive of
the Americans. And basically all the Canadians wanted to do
was trade. And if the Americans come in and want
to run things and let us keep trading with the Indians,
we will do that, but things go badly as the
American forces led by Richard Montgomery. He's actually an English
(03:24):
officer who had after that war between the British and
the French in the seventeen sixties, had retired to a
farm in New York, and now he's pulled into service
to lead this force up into Canada. And he does
a pretty effective job moving up Lake Champlain and to
the Saint Lawrence River. And meanwhile Benedict Garnold leaves a
force up through Maine to the Saint Lawrence River.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Because they wanted to also take Quebec.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Well, Quebec is the capital of Canada. It's the citadel,
the city that's the gate post to the Saint Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It was a bigger deal in Montreal at the time,
probably because it was on the ocean, but.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Well almost on the ocean, it's still quite a ways
up the river. And remember in the winter, the river
is right right, it was on water, So the Americans
needed to get Quebec before the river thought. The British
get a fleet in to retake Quebec. That's why on
New Year's Eve of seventeen seventy five, Arnold and Montgomery
tried to storm the Citadel of Quebec.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Right now, right at this moment, two hundred and fifty
years ago.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
At this moment, they are moving in trying to get it,
and Montgomery is killed and Arnold is wounded. He's shot
in the leg, never really recovers, and he has put
out of commission. Another American officer has to come up
from Montreal to try to shore things up, as the
British still don't leave the citadel, and now they have
this defeated American force kind of hanging out outside. Remember
(04:46):
this is now January. When you say citadel, you mean
it's a fortress. Is it still there? In the fortress
of the Citadel of Quebec is still there.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
There's a spot with some cannon looking out over that.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
That's it the citadel, and there's a lower town right
along the river, and that's they tried to thought we
could get in through the lower town if we come
in through behind the citadel. The British had done this
back in seventeen sixty they had taken Quebec from the French,
and in that case, the French general thought I'll go
out and give battle to the British outside the citadel.
He does, and it's a disaster. And so the British General,
(05:20):
now fifteen years later, says, all I need to do
is stay in here. They'll won't be able to take
the citadel, and they don't.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Okay. The reason I had you in is because I
focus a lot on Boston things. But I am making
a concerted effort to be more inclusive to the rest
of the state and the rest of New England, and
towards that end, I'm hoping that after this break you
will chat a bit about some of the things that happened,
some of the events that took place in the towns
(05:51):
and cities and the outlying areas. I don't mean to
say you are that outlying Worcester or Portsmouth, but not Boston.
It's not all about Boston, and I want to include
I want to enfranchise the rest of Massachusetts and New
England as well. And stuff did happen, like a lot
(06:12):
like the Pine Tree Rebellion, et cetera. And we'll find
out about that. And of course, Henry Knox, who brought
the cannon from Taekwona Roga to Dorchester Heights, went through
a lot of Massachusetts towns and we'll get into that
as well. On WBZ.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray. On WBZ, Boston's.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
News Radio, we continue with Bob Allison, is one of
our history guests, focusing especially on the Revolutionary War period,
and we're including the rest of Massachusetts and New England
in our talk of the Revolution because we usually focus
on Boston. So I'm from New Hampshire. I'm curious to
know about a couple of things that might have happened
(06:57):
in New Hampshire. New Hampshire was very involved. They raised
Regiments one, two and three for the Revolution. But some
things happened up there.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Some things did in seventeen seventy two. The Pine Tree
Riot is it's called in weird New Hampshire. Wig name
for a band. It is Weird New Hampshire Pine Tree Riot.
They have pine That is a good name for a band.
Pine trees were reserved for the Royal Navy. The Royal
Navy needed big, tall pines for masts and so they
were off limits for anyone and what In fact, New
(07:28):
Hampshire was started as a lumber colony to provide masks
for the Royal Navy.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
As a matter of fact, I went to school in Durham,
and they had a road called Mast Road which was
the road that they would go out and cut down
trees for masts. That's which is consistent with what you said.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Yeah, and so what happens in Weir is folks resist
this and the sheriff tries to arrest folks who are
preventing either taking the masts for themselves because remember New
Hampshire guys are banking ships and they have they have
use for mass as well, and the sheriff tries to
arrest them and stop them. A riot breaks out, there's
(08:05):
a jail break and indictments are handed out for the
ring leaders, but no one can be prosecuted or convicted
because juries aren't going to convict any of these people.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And they were under British law at the time.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
They were, in fact the governors appointed by the crown.
Benning Wentworth or John Wentworth I think was the governor
at this time. They do have an assembly, but it
really is it's a royal colony.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
So you had a jury.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Oh yeah, the British believe in trial by jury, but
again it's a jury of your peers and these guys
aren't going to find anyone guilty, and Wentworth realizes that
things are really slipping away here, that we don't have
the same authority that we used to. And this is
really one of the big conundrums of the revolution. It's
really not necessarily the guys and conquered with their guns.
(08:47):
It is town by town people deciding, Hey, we're going
to govern ourselves. And that's really the story of the revolution.
And it's something happening in New Hampshire and Massachusetts and
other places in towns as people have always governed themselves
in this way, and they the Parliament is making new
rules and enforcing old rules, and that's really what brings
(09:08):
on this resistance in the seventeen seventies.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
So this was going on in these little towns. They
were deciding early on in each little town where they stood.
So by the time it became time to decide on
are we going to sign the declaration of independence? Are
we going to go with the patriots that had mostly
been decided adjudicated in these little towns already well.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
In fact, in the spring of seventeen seventy six, the
Massachusetts Provincial Congress asks the towns for instructions how should
we vote on independence? So every town at its town
meeting debates this, and every town in Massachusetts except one
says yes, we would support independence, which is interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
They are about one hundred and fifty towns in Massachusetts,
and that one town begins with a bee.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
It does begin with a bee, and it's on Cape Cod.
It's the town of Barnstable. And it was kind of
embarrassing because Barnstable was the home of the Otis family,
or among the leading patriots in Massachusetts, and James Otis
Senior was the moderator of the town meeting. His son,
James Otis Junior, was this real firebrand lawyer, Mercy Otis Warren,
one of the daughters is writing plays. And Barnstable votes
(10:15):
against independence, really because there's another patriot family in town,
the Crockers. And the Crockers and the otis Is hate
each other and we don't really know why. Yeah, we
don't know. It made a lot of sense to them.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
But they were both patriot families.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
They were leading patriot families. In fact, the Crockers owned
a tavern, the Crocker Tavern, and it used to be
open to the public. Now it's a private residence. But
they said this was the Fanuel Hall of Cape Cod,
where the Crockers and the Otises met to plot independence. Well,
actually the Crockers and the Otises did meet there, but
it wasn't a plot. Independence was after a riot broke
(10:48):
out on the militia training ground when some Joseph Otis,
another Otis son was a captain in the militia, Seth
Crocker was a captain in the militia. Each had raised
his own militia company, and some of the Otises failed
to salute Captain Crocker as he went by, and the
Crocker said, you've got to salute Captain Crocker. They said, well,
he's not our captain. We don't have to salute him.
(11:09):
They said, well, yes you do, because he's a captain.
And you'll never guess what happens. All these armed guys
start fighting with each other, and the Otises chased the
Crockers into the Crocker tavern, and there are sword marks
in the beams of the Crocker tavern made by the
swords of the Otises trying to whack the Crockers over
this affront to Captain Captain Crocker's dignity.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
So it wasn't just a you know, a brew if swords,
there's sword marks. They were having him.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
That's right there. Yeah, it's a serious business. Yes. At
the next town meeting, they're debating, then should we be independent?
And there's a lead. There's a loyalist in town, a
guy named Edward Bacon. He says, what's going to happen
if we don't have anyone interceding between otises and crockers here,
they'll try to kill each other. This is what democracy
(11:58):
will be. There will be no check on this. Do
you really want that? And the people of Barnciple said no,
we don't. Furthermore than then elect Bacon to be their
representative to the provincial concess.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
So they voted no because they thought this is what
democracy would.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Be, Yeah, be people trying to kill each other, and
what will stop them from doing that? And I think
one which is a good question, it's a very good question.
I think one of the real triumphs of the American
Revolution is we do replace the bad old government, but
we replace it with one that isn't worse. In fact,
one that is better, that's prevented us, for the most part,
from killing each other. When we get into political arguments
(12:31):
than the subsequent two hundred fifty years.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, and a lot of revolutions around the world.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
You're right. The subsequent government's worse.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
That's right, and that's been usually as much worse. I
just want to mention, since we're on the subject of
New Year's Eve, New Year's Day tomorrow, two hundred and
fifty years ago tomorrow, the first Union flag was raised
in what is now Summerville at Prospect Hill. And in
fact they're commemorating that a parade le a procession leaves
from Somerville City Hall at eleven thirty and then from
(13:00):
eleven to twelve or twelve to one on Prospect Hill,
they're going to have ceremonies, they'll have flag making for kids.
This was really a signal for the unification of the colonies.
And the Union flag has thirteen red and white stripes,
and then in the field, as it's called, is the
Union Jack. So we're fighting for self government under still
(13:22):
the Empire, but we these thirteen colonies are united. It
still wasn't clear that independence was the goal, but this
was really a signal of a unification of the colonies
into one.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Cause you're a historian and well, this is maybe out
of here, out of your area, but we've been a
democracy or a form of representative government for two hundred
and fifty years now exactly? Is that worldwide a long
(13:57):
time for one government, especially a democratic type of government,
to survive.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Oh, yes, it's phenomenally long.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Which means it's hard to keep a democracy going. It's
very hard. And we assume that it's going to keep going.
But yeah, if you look historically, it may not. And
it's quite if history is any guide, it's unlikely that
it would continue.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
It is at the Constitutional Convention they're talking about this
government they're creating, and someone talks about, well, what will
it be like in one hundred and fifty years, and
Nathaniel gorram Medeligate from Massachusetts is is it likely that
this country, including the western country meaning up to the
Mississippi River, will remain under one government one hundred and
fifty years from now? So it really is an achievement
(14:44):
to do this, to create a government that's lasted this long.
It's important to note too, the Massachusetts Constitution is the
oldest written constitution that is still functioning in the world.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Which you can see, Yes, where.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Can you see it at the Massachusetts State Archives at
Georcha and Dorchester, Columbia. Point the State Archives is a
wonderful museum, the Commonwealth Museum, or they have the first
page of it. They left one of their eight sheets
of parchment. They left the last one blank, anticipating there
might be amendments. But this parchment is it, and periodically
(15:19):
someone will come to see is there a comma here
or a period here? There have been numerous amendments since then,
but the structure of government remains the same. Really the
work of John Adams, who recognized human imperfection, the fact
that people often disagree, and that there are different interests,
rich versus poor, urban versus rural. So you create a
(15:40):
government that will balance these different interests and check each
one can check the other. So the legislative branch and
the executive branch, he said, our natural rivals. And if
one doesn't have a check on the other, the weaker
will ever be the lamb and the pause of the wolf.
So sometimes there are complaints about gridlock. If one party
can rolls one branch and not the other, they say, oh,
(16:01):
the gridlock is a bad thing. Gridlock was designed to
prevent majority tyranny.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
In that building out on Columbia Point. That's the building
that I went and met you. Yes, okay, And there
was a man there who showed me a there's a
drum there that was actually in the Battle of Bunker Hills. Yes,
that is that astounds me. You can see right in
front of your face a drum that was at the
Battle of Bunker Hill.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
They also have a Hessian helmet that was captured at Saratoga,
a helmet worn by a German soldier at the Battle
of Saratoga. It's tremendous the number of artifacts they have,
as well as documents there, and documents that really tell
the story of the beginning of government in Massachusetts, the
creation of this system of government.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
All right, for this next question, do the best you can.
If you don't want to answer it, you don't have to.
As you look at what the four Fathers put together,
the founding fathers put together, is there anything, in having
the benefit of hindsight, that they you feel they should
have added or not included anything they should they just
(17:09):
couldn't foresee that didn't force Maybe the four saw it
but couldn't hammer anything out to control it. Would you
have added or subtracted from it.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Oh, what I have done versus what they might have done.
I think one of the big questions we have is
over the institution of slavery. Remember, the whole fight is
over liberty, and yet there are people enslaved, and many
of the enslavers are members of our revolutionaries. Samuel Johnson asks,
how is it we hear the loudest yelps for liberty
(17:41):
from the drivers of negro So that's one of the
great contradictions here. On the other hand, many of them
recognized this hypocrisy.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
And I never would have happened though at all.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
We don't know what would have happened. And we know
actually what happens with Native Americans. Know that the town
of Mashpee on Cape Cod, most of the men go
off to fight on the side of the rebels, and
most of them die in the war. And the Native
Americans are affected by the war in different ways. So
what could they have done differently? I don't know. I mean,
(18:12):
this was one of the most astonishing generations in the
history of the world. You know, try to imagine political
leaders today having the same ability to create a system
of government that will last two hundred and fifty years.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
One thing that seems markedly different from than from today
is generally those funding fathers seem to have best interests
of the country at heart. I mean, I maybe Naiven,
they might have had financial reasons. It might have been
(18:45):
costly for them to exist in status quo, and they
figured way, you know, all these future potential British taxes
are hassled, they want to be done. But they seem
generally more altruistic and now and honest, maybe they weren't.
Maybe they were all just like politicians today, But now
I don't think you can even come close to get
(19:07):
elected to anything if you're completely honest.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I think there was a different idea of civic virtue,
that is, you put your interest aside as you put
in the interest of something greater. That's how we are judged.
And there was this idea that republics could only exist
where in a place where there was civic virtue, this
sense of an obligation to something greater than yourself. And
(19:33):
that really what was driving this, that everyone had to
feel this same sense of this. And there were people
then canivers self interested folks, there were crooks, there were others.
In fact, it's somewhat reassuring to look at history and
see just how much depravity there was.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I'm glad to hear that.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Yeah, that they weren't all Washington or Franklin, and so
we get this idea that everyone was. Those guys were
somewhat rare in their own day, which is why they
out so much.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, if you say that a democracy can't really exist
with our civic virtue and we don't have a lot
of civic virtue, I fear for the future.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
So do I. You know, Franklin wrote it. He said
he thought this government would operate tolerably well as long
as there was a civic virtue. He said once that
was gone, it likely would devolve into tyranny if the
people couldn't be governed any other way. There's a great
moment at some point during the Constitutional Convention when Elizabeth
Willing Powell, who's a Philadelphia socialite, asks him what kind
(20:35):
of government are you creating? Is it a monarchy or
is it a republic? And he said it's a republic
if you can keep it.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
By the way back, one quick thing, referring back to
what happened two hundred and fifty years ago. Right now, tonight.
I didn't know this, and I bet no very few
others know. Ben Franklin was in Quebec, he was in Montreal, Montreal,
he was in Canada. Yes, and he was doing what
he does, what he did in France, he was trying
(21:04):
to do in Canada.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Yeah, Congress sends him a small delegation, Samuel Chase from Maryland.
They also send John Carroll, who's a Catholic priest, knowing
that the French are mainly Catholic, that Franklin is someone
who is universally known, they will help bring Canada onto
our side. And by the time Franklin and Carol and
(21:24):
Chase get there, they realize this is kind of a
hopeless cause that there's no way the Americans can maintain
the loyalty of the Canadian people. So they essentially Franklin
and Carol are part of the exodus. But yeah, Franklin
is in Montreal in April of seventeen seventy six, and
I just.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Picture how different it was. Then they say, Ben, look,
we really need you to go up to Canada and
try to fix things. So Ben says, okay, which means
he's got to go all the way up there. Far
far right.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
They get to upstate New York. They're in Saratoga with
Philip Scott, who is the General in charge of the
Northern Army, and there's still about more than a foot
of snow on the ground. This is April of seventeen
seventy six, and they have to continue on to get
to Montreal. Going along the ice is just broken on
Lake Champlain and they're on a boat. They pull over
(22:17):
at nights they can light a fire, and this guy's
in his seventies and it's a miserable trip, but they're
doing this out of this duty, this obligation to this
cause greater than themselves.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Okay, let's take a break, and after the break, we
will continue with events during the Revolution that took place
other than Boston, so we can include an enfranchise the
surrounding area, the towns and cities in our conversation on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
E's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Let's continue with our guest Bob Allison talking about the
Revolution which happened well two hundred and fifty years ago,
and some it has took place tonight, but we're going
to we've covered those and we're going to get in
some others that happened in the towns, in the cities
and towns around Massachusetts and New England. We did talk
about New Hampshire a little bit, but there was another
(23:14):
event called that took place in Portsmouth. Can you talk
about that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Yeah, that was actually in seventeen seventy four. There's a
Fort William and Mary and General Thomas Gage, who's the
commander of the governor of Massachusetts also commander of the
military forces, realizes that there is munitions up there that
he wants to get so that the patriots don't get
their hands on them. So he sends up a force,
but first Paul Revere gets there, alerts the local militia
and they wind up taking the garrison and getting all
(23:41):
the munitions out and bringing them to the rebels, which
is what Gauge didn't want to happen. And by the way,
another thing we recently learned is a Gauge, realizing the
British couldn't blockade the entire American coast, thought about having
a fifty four mile chain strung from the tip of
Cape Cod to Cape Ann that would keep shit out
(24:01):
of the Yeah, yeah, Yeah, a chain maybe six feet
under the water. I don't think anyone ever builds it.
He puts out a contract saying, hey, can anyone help
me build this chain?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Well that's what that's what Russia does to protect itself
against Ukrainian subs in their subject pens. Yes, and this
was just on a larger scale, a bunch.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Of larger scale.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah. In fact, one of the big things that was
happening actually in the winter of seventeen seventy six at
this time was Henry Knox was bringing cannon from Fort
Tykonder Rogan Lake Champlain to lift the siege of Balls.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, we have to talk about all the cities and
towns involved with that. That's a good time to begin that.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Yes, So actually we will be commemorating these things. So
on the tenth of January, a week and a half
from now, in Great Barrington as well as An Alfred
on the Massachusetts border and in Great Barrington at the
Mahawi Theater, there will be a ceremony. We'll have Oxen,
we'll have cannon to commemorate the noble train of artillery.
(24:57):
And then every Saturday through February will be at another
place in Massachusetts commemorating this In the nineteen twenties, Massachusetts
and New York put up markers along this roadway. Some
guys in Otis realized that it wasn't really marking where
the trail happened. So they went into the woods and
they found the original route of Knox's artillery well by
(25:20):
looking at maps, going to the state archives, and looking
at documents that also traced the map.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
So they were Knox's group was taking notes as they went.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
I guess the Knox has a journal, so you know,
maybe we.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Should back up and explain Henry Knox who he was
and what he did, and then get back into the route.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Okay, So Henry Knox was a bookseller in Boston. He
had a bookstore in Cornhill, which is near Government Center today,
and he sold a lot of He was interested in
military science, and so he had built a fort in
Roxbury and on his own. He with a group of guys.
He had been part of a militia company. But he's
a guy who understood military stars and he impresses Washington.
(26:03):
Knox is twenty four years old at this time.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
How did he meet in Washington to impress him?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Washington arrived in July of seventeen seventy five. Henry Knox
knows Washington is going to go inspecting all the way
to Dorchester Heights and so knocks him down on the road,
sees him, flags him down and says, come see the
fort I built. And so Washington goes and sees it
and is impressed. Here's a guy who understands how to
build fort.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
So he gives Knox kind of a good news bad
news proposition. The good news, I'm going to put you
in charge of all the artillery in the Continental Army.
The bad news is you have to go to Fort
Taykonderroga three hundred miles away and get it and bring
it back.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
So I'm not right then, not right on the spot?
Or was it right?
Speaker 3 (26:39):
It wasn't on the spot, but unders And so he
asks Knox to do a survey of all the artillery
that the army has, what's what they need, and then
sends him off. And Taykonderoga had been captured in May
of seventeen seventy five by Benedict Arnold and Ethan Allen.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
And basically without a fight, right, without.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
A fight, Yeah, And so Knox knew that's where the
artillery is, So in December of seventeen seventy five he
goes to Fort Tykonderoga as well as to another of
Fort George on Lake Champlain and gets this artillery, builds sleds,
and then hires teamsters to start dragging it back along
the frozen roads. They need to have the roads frozen
(27:20):
because each piece of artillery weighs about one thousand pounds,
so it's really heavy artillery they are bringing back on
sledgs pulled by horses and oxen. How many pieces about
sixty pieces of artillery fifty nine to sixty two, somewhere
in that range. And they're also tied to ropes because
if they're crossing a frozen river or a frozen lake
and they start to break through, they need some way
(27:42):
of pulling them out. It do have a few drop through,
and then the men have to pull these cannon from
the bottom of the river or the bottom of the lake.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I can't imagine we none of us can imagine how hard,
how tough people had to be back then they really Oh,
by the way, if this cannon breaks through the ice,
you need to figure right away to pull it back
up and it weighs, by the way, it weighs one
thousand pounds. Yeah, and as ice on top.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
That's right, yes, And Knox would go out, have guys
go out the night before if they're going to cross,
and drill holes in the ice, so then water will
come up and form on top of the ice and
harden it the next day and by the next day
when they're crossing with oxen horses, and if something starts
to break through, they are going to cut so that
the oxen and horses aren't pulled in.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
But they also have barrels attached to the cannon, and
that kind of like booyze to mark the spot where
the cannon is. So a great deal of planning goes
into this. Knox writes about holding these things then houlding
them up the mountains, up the Berkshires is one challenge.
Getting them down is also a challenge, because they're going
to run over a horse or an ox And who's
in front of the artillery.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
How many miles is that trip?
Speaker 3 (28:47):
It's about three hundred miles.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Three hundred miles. How long did it take them?
Speaker 3 (28:51):
They started actually in early January, and Knox writes to
Washington in December, saying within two weeks I expect to
deliver and noble train of artillery. They actually don't get
it too until the toward the end of January, so
it's about six weeks that they are in motion.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Six weeks getting up and back.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
No, no, six weeks getting back. Okay, First Knox had
to go to New York to see if New York
would loan them any artillery, and they said no, the
Army the Continental Congress still hasn't paid us for We've
already loaned them. We're not giving them any more. So
they have to go up to Tekondoo get to get it.
Knox had left Boss left Cambridge in November and gets
back at the end of January, gets the can into
(29:33):
Framingham and then goes to tell Washington this is where
the cannon are. And then John Adams goes to look
at the canon the next day as he's on his
way back to Congress.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Okay, now back to the back in the twenties, they
decided to mark the actual exact room, which is something
I'm very much interested in. I don't want a vague
they came through town. I want to know. I want
to stand right here and know that they came right through.
And so there are those markers. Can you run through
the times that the towns and that he came through
(30:06):
and the towns that will be involved in things you
do well.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Fortunately, I have a Revolution two fifty scarf which if
you go to our website Revolution two fifty Revolution two
five oo dot org you can find one of these
that has all of the towns from Fort Ticonderoga Alford
in Massachusetts is where they cross the border, and there
will be a ceremony there Saturday the tenth, Alfred Egremont,
(30:32):
Great Barrington, Great Barrington's We're going to have our settlement Monterey, Otis.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
So the scarf lists all the towns on the route.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Yes, up to Brighton, Roxbury, South Boston, March seventeenth. In
South Boston we will commemorate evacuation Day.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
And it says Henry Knox twentyes. Oh and it's it's
not cheap, it's not this is a nice, super nice.
I should have brought you one now I'm sorry. Yes,
you bring that next time by buy one of these.
Where where can.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
The Revolution two five zero dot org The Revolution two
fifty website. We have a couple of different scarfs, and
make sure you look for the Knox Trail one.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, it's kind of it says Knox Trail two fifty.
It's got a picture of a cannon on it. Yep,
but it's not the My point is, folks, it's not
this cheap stretchy ill. This is this is made by
these It seems like somebody from back then would have
made it.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
It does, it's very well and it made Extub, a
company that makes scarves for European soccer teams.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
It's wool.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
I think it is wool. Actually that is nice.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
So uh, now, did you run through all the towns?
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Not all the towns there there are quite In fact,
there are about thirty markers in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
YT's break and we will go through the towns and
you can talk about you have in detail the events
that are taking place along these dots.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Okay, it's night Side with.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Our guess is Bob Allison. He's, you know, kind of
one of the bosses of Rev two fifty, an organization
very involved in marketing events related to the revolution. On
the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary, I just want you
to all to know that I have purchased with my
own money. I did not beg one from Bob the
Knox Trail to fifty scarf because it's it's fantastic. If
(32:20):
you're in the history and you see this thing, you're
going to flip out. If you wear it out, Everyone's
going to say, Wow, that's beautiful. Who's Henry Knox.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I find people staring at me now when I'm wearing
it and asking it, wondering who is Henry Knox and
what's the Knox Trail. And we're commemorating the Knox Trail
in January and in February, stopping in different towns. Actually,
because there are so many towns, a lot of towns
are doing their own events, but we are having big
events in a couple of centers. So in Great Barrington
(32:51):
on the tenth of January we'll have Oxen cannon canon
demonstration other things than the following week and the seventeenth
and spring Field at the Springfield Armory. Henry Knox, by
the way, thought this would be a good place to
put an armory in Springfield. And then on the thirty
first in Worcester, and Worcester was an important place for
revolutionary events. And then in February actually February thirteenth in
(33:15):
Framingham and framing him is where the Knox placed the canon.
He went off to tell Washington, but then in Or
in mid February, and the twenty actually end of February,
in Cambridge on the twenty seventh, and then in Roxbury
the following weekend on the seventh, and then Dorchester Heights
on March seventeenth. That's evacuation Day every year, always a
(33:36):
big event.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
We have to go through Evacuation Day very briefly, but
with as much detail as we can get in briefly.
It's a big deal. These it's the you know, the
this frosting on top of this, a trail of sixty
thousand pounds artillery pieces through the winter, three hundred miles
incredible thing. And then when they get here they bring
(33:58):
him to the top of Dorchester High where that results
in the British leaving. There are a couple of details
to talk about there. How long after they got here
into town did they get them up on the hill.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
They actually started the operation to move them up on
March fourth, and on March fifth they have put the
fortifications to the top of Dorchester.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
The fortifications include more than cannon. They include breastworks rest
where breastworks.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
The Americans were afraid of getting shot in the legs,
so they would make a fence and actually they made
this with things called chandeliers. They would put a couple
of pieces of wood together and make a frame and
then fill that with sticks and logs. The ground was
too hard to dig into, so they had to make
all of this stuff in Roxbury and Dorchester cutting down trees,
(34:47):
then haul all of that stuff up along with rocks.
They had webbing filled with rocks. They called this barrels,
and then those also acted as part of the fortification.
And also if the British start coming up the height,
they can push these down the role that rolled down.
And so they make these fortifications on the night of
March fourth, by the morning of March fifth there there
(35:10):
then they have been firing from Leechmere Point in Cambridge
at the British diversion as a diversion, also to cover
the noise. The British will think we're coming from that direction. Meanwhile,
we're putting fortifications south of town. And then they put
another fortification at what's then Nook Hill. It's now roughly
the corner of b Street and Broadway in South Boston.
(35:31):
I know we wanted to talk about things outside of Boston.
Now we are talking about this. And by the way,
another thing to remember is most of the men involved
were from other places. In fact, over the course of
the war, more men from Massachusetts serve in the Continental
Army than from any other state. That's for the next
eight years, and every town is going to be involved
(35:51):
in this, having to fill its quota of soldiers. And
just I want to make sure I have time to
mention a thing happening in April, either the nineteenth or
twenty at the town of Medford is putting up a
statue to a woman named Sarah Bradley Fulton. This was
considered the mother of the Boston Tea Party, and so
they're building a statue to her in Medford. A very
(36:13):
exciting event that will be happening around Patriot's Day. But
back to evacuation Day, A.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Couple of questions, Sir, why didn't they start building these
fortifications prior to the cannon coming up there?
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Because then the British would storm the heights and take them.
And that's what they thought. The British were going to do.
And in fact, on about the ninth or tenth of March,
the British do try to storm the heights, and it's
kind of a good thing.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Happens.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
A big storm disrupts the British attack, and it's a
good thing because it disrupts the attack. Also, because Washington
really wanted to have a battle, he wanted to go
into Boston. When the British left to go attack Dorchester Heights,
he wanted to bring his force across the back Bay
from Cambridge and attack Boston, and that probably would not
(37:03):
have worked. Washington kept wanting another battle. His generals kept saying, well,
was Washington knew about Bunker Hill, what a big blow
that was to the British. And Washington thinks, all we
need to do is do that again, as generals say,
that was really a fluke. Next time we get into
a big battle, we're likely to lose, right, and we don't.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Have been catastrophic at that point. It would have been okay.
So they get up there in one night, they build
these breastworks and they drag the cannon and how many
did they actually drag up that?
Speaker 3 (37:34):
I don't know. What we do know is not all
of the guns the British thought were pointed at them
actually were guns. They also brought up some logs they
had painted black to look like guns. And also they
didn't have a whole lot of ammunition. They didn't have
a lot of gunpowder or cannon balls. There was one
cannon ball at least lodged in a church steeple in
Brattle Square, roughly where the government's Center Tees station is now.
(37:57):
Henry Cabot Lodge, who spoke at the dedication of the
doorch Chester Heights monument in nineteen oh two, talked about
that cannon bull imagining being fired from Dorchester Heights. You
know that far. But they don't have that many cannon
balls to fire.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Very short time. The British could have burned down Boston
before they left, Yes, they could have. They so they
looked up and they said, oh, there a cannon They
could hurt our ships. We got to leave. But they
could have burned down Boston. And why didn't they? Was
there some sort of deal made that?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Actually the chairman of the Board of Selectionment of Boston
comes to the lines with a message for General Washington,
and it says he had heard General House say if
the Americans don't fire on the British fleet as they
are leaving, the British won't burn Boston.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
As a deal.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Well, it wasn't really a deal. Washington says. This is
not an official communication, but it gives him an indication
the British are going to leave, so they don't. They
do fire, but not they're not going to attack Boston.
They're going to let the British leave. And so they
watch and on March seventeenth, they see the British have
loaded all the ships. They've also loaded about eleven hundred
(39:03):
loyalists onto the ships, and then they sail off. By
this time, Washington realizes the fight's going to go to
New York. So we started sending men to New York,
and the British evacuate Boston on March seventeenth, and that
really is Massachusetts' independence.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, great, great, great hour, Bob Allison, thank you so
very much. And again there's a lot of if you're
into the Revolution and things like this, Henry not knock Scarf,
it's the Revolution two fifty dot org. What all I
did was google Revolution two fifty Henry Knock Scarf, and
(39:38):
I got to all the merchandise.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Now I will tell you about the other events happening
to commemorate the Knox Trail.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Okay, that's right, Well, thank you so much. We have
Brian Kane coming up, who is the executive director of
the MBT Board of Advisors, to really explain to us
how important transportation is and how it affects everything from
how much money you make to your healthcare, to where
you live, et cetera. And that's next on WBZ.
It's NIC's Eyes with Dan Ray. I'm going easy Boston's
news Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
It is night Side. Bradley Jay for Dan Colin joined
the conversation tonight six, one, seven, five, four, ten thirty.
And remember you can listen to Nightside anytime. You can
google Nightside on demand and you can listen to WBZ
News Radio ten thirty live of course, but online at
the iHeartRadio app. And that's easy, and it's all good.
(00:29):
We have one of my favorite guests, Bob Allison, who
is a professor of history at Suffolk University, and he
is on the the Chief I Guess of the Advisory
Board for a Revolution two fifteen, organization dedicated to marking
events related to the Revolution. Hello, Bob, let me ask
you right out of the gate. Are there any events
(00:52):
that took place significant events that took place on a
New Year's Eve during the Revolution.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Well, two hundred and fifty years ago today, American forces
were trying to capture Quebec, the citadel of Quebec, the
capital of Canada. The Americans actually occupied Montreal. A force
had gone up there hoping to get the French Canadians
to join them in the resistance, but it went somewhat okay,
(01:17):
The French really wanted to see the Americans take Quebec.
The British governor Guy Carlton had managed to get there
ahead of them. Benedict Arnold had led an army up.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yes, why did the French want us to take Quebec
just to kind of prove that we had a shot.
So maybe they they.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Had already been through well, fifteen years earlier, the British
had taken Canada from the French, and the French folks
who were there were a little wary now of getting
into a fight between the British and other British the Americans,
and why would we subside with them? They could see
some of the rationale. Actually, some of the folks supporting
the Americans were English folks who had gone there after
(01:53):
England had taken Canada. Kind of a complicated story. But
the Americans thought, yes, they'll join us in this war
against the British because we don't want the British Empire
running things here. But some of the French said, well,
we're happy the British basically left us alone. They let
us keep remain Catholic and aren't taxing us the way
they are the Americans, but some we fear what might happen.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
And anything bad for the British was good for the
French at that time, right.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
It was, although these folks had kind of made their
peace with the British being in charge, and Guy Carlton,
who was the Governor General of Canada, was a pretty
effective guy in keeping the peace. And he manages to
escape as the Americans are taking Montreal. The Americans actually
have boats on the Saint Lawrence River, and he manages
to get away from them, gets to Quebec and knows
(02:43):
all he needs to do is stay there. The Americans
are trying to attack Quebec. If the British come out
and fight, then the Americans could take Quebec. But he
stays inside.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
And I wanted to say, for a while Montreal was American,
but we weren't really. We went the US yet.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
We weren't the US, but Americans. The Americans were occupying Montreal.
There were some English folks there who were supportive of
the Americans. And basically all the Canadians wanted to do
was trade. And if the Americans come in and want
to run things and let us keep trading with the Indians,
we will do that, but things go badly as the
American forces led by Richard Montgomery. He's actually an English
(03:24):
officer who had after that war between the British and
the French in the seventeen sixties, had retired to a
farm in New York, and now he's pulled into service
to lead this force up into Canada. And he does
a pretty effective job moving up Lake Champlain and to
the Saint Lawrence River. And meanwhile Benedict Garnold leaves a
force up through Maine to the Saint Lawrence River.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Because they wanted to also take Quebec.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Well, Quebec is the capital of Canada. It's the citadel,
the city that's the gate post to the Saint Lawrence.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It was a bigger deal in Montreal at the time,
probably because it was on the ocean, but.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Well almost on the ocean, it's still quite a ways
up the river. And remember in the winter, the river
is right right, it was on water, So the Americans
needed to get Quebec before the river thought. The British
get a fleet in to retake Quebec. That's why on
New Year's Eve of seventeen seventy five, Arnold and Montgomery
tried to storm the Citadel of Quebec.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Right now, right at this moment, two hundred and fifty
years ago.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
At this moment, they are moving in trying to get it,
and Montgomery is killed and Arnold is wounded. He's shot
in the leg, never really recovers, and he has put
out of commission. Another American officer has to come up
from Montreal to try to shore things up, as the
British still don't leave the citadel, and now they have
this defeated American force kind of hanging out outside. Remember
(04:46):
this is now January. When you say citadel, you mean
it's a fortress. Is it still there? In the fortress
of the Citadel of Quebec is still there.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
There's a spot with some cannon looking out over that.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
That's it the citadel, and there's a lower town right
along the river, and that's they tried to thought we
could get in through the lower town if we come
in through behind the citadel. The British had done this
back in seventeen sixty they had taken Quebec from the French,
and in that case, the French general thought I'll go
out and give battle to the British outside the citadel.
He does, and it's a disaster. And so the British General,
(05:20):
now fifteen years later, says, all I need to do
is stay in here. They'll won't be able to take
the citadel, and they don't.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Okay. The reason I had you in is because I
focus a lot on Boston things. But I am making
a concerted effort to be more inclusive to the rest
of the state and the rest of New England, and
towards that end, I'm hoping that after this break you
will chat a bit about some of the things that happened,
some of the events that took place in the towns
(05:51):
and cities and the outlying areas. I don't mean to
say you are that outlying Worcester or Portsmouth, but not Boston.
It's not all about Boston, and I want to include
I want to enfranchise the rest of Massachusetts and New
England as well. And stuff did happen, like a lot
(06:12):
like the Pine Tree Rebellion, et cetera. And we'll find
out about that. And of course, Henry Knox, who brought
the cannon from Taekwona Roga to Dorchester Heights, went through
a lot of Massachusetts towns and we'll get into that
as well. On WBZ.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
You're on Night Side with Dan Ray. On WBZ, Boston's.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
News Radio, we continue with Bob Allison, is one of
our history guests, focusing especially on the Revolutionary War period,
and we're including the rest of Massachusetts and New England
in our talk of the Revolution because we usually focus
on Boston. So I'm from New Hampshire. I'm curious to
know about a couple of things that might have happened
(06:57):
in New Hampshire. New Hampshire was very involved. They raised
Regiments one, two and three for the Revolution. But some
things happened up there.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Some things did in seventeen seventy two. The Pine Tree
Riot is it's called in weird New Hampshire. Wig name
for a band. It is Weird New Hampshire Pine Tree Riot.
They have pine That is a good name for a band.
Pine trees were reserved for the Royal Navy. The Royal
Navy needed big, tall pines for masts and so they
were off limits for anyone and what In fact, New
(07:28):
Hampshire was started as a lumber colony to provide masks
for the Royal Navy.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
As a matter of fact, I went to school in Durham,
and they had a road called Mast Road which was
the road that they would go out and cut down
trees for masts. That's which is consistent with what you said.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Yeah, and so what happens in Weir is folks resist
this and the sheriff tries to arrest folks who are
preventing either taking the masts for themselves because remember New
Hampshire guys are banking ships and they have they have
use for mass as well, and the sheriff tries to
arrest them and stop them. A riot breaks out, there's
(08:05):
a jail break and indictments are handed out for the
ring leaders, but no one can be prosecuted or convicted
because juries aren't going to convict any of these people.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And they were under British law at the time.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
They were, in fact the governors appointed by the crown.
Benning Wentworth or John Wentworth I think was the governor
at this time. They do have an assembly, but it
really is it's a royal colony.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
So you had a jury.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Oh yeah, the British believe in trial by jury, but
again it's a jury of your peers and these guys
aren't going to find anyone guilty, and Wentworth realizes that
things are really slipping away here, that we don't have
the same authority that we used to. And this is
really one of the big conundrums of the revolution. It's
really not necessarily the guys and conquered with their guns.
(08:47):
It is town by town people deciding, Hey, we're going
to govern ourselves. And that's really the story of the revolution.
And it's something happening in New Hampshire and Massachusetts and
other places in towns as people have always governed themselves
in this way, and they the Parliament is making new
rules and enforcing old rules, and that's really what brings
(09:08):
on this resistance in the seventeen seventies.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
So this was going on in these little towns. They
were deciding early on in each little town where they stood.
So by the time it became time to decide on
are we going to sign the declaration of independence? Are
we going to go with the patriots that had mostly
been decided adjudicated in these little towns already well.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
In fact, in the spring of seventeen seventy six, the
Massachusetts Provincial Congress asks the towns for instructions how should
we vote on independence? So every town at its town
meeting debates this, and every town in Massachusetts except one
says yes, we would support independence, which is interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
They are about one hundred and fifty towns in Massachusetts,
and that one town begins with a bee.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
It does begin with a bee, and it's on Cape Cod.
It's the town of Barnstable. And it was kind of
embarrassing because Barnstable was the home of the Otis family,
or among the leading patriots in Massachusetts, and James Otis
Senior was the moderator of the town meeting. His son,
James Otis Junior, was this real firebrand lawyer, Mercy Otis Warren,
one of the daughters is writing plays. And Barnstable votes
(10:15):
against independence, really because there's another patriot family in town,
the Crockers. And the Crockers and the otis Is hate
each other and we don't really know why. Yeah, we
don't know. It made a lot of sense to them.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
But they were both patriot families.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
They were leading patriot families. In fact, the Crockers owned
a tavern, the Crocker Tavern, and it used to be
open to the public. Now it's a private residence. But
they said this was the Fanuel Hall of Cape Cod,
where the Crockers and the Otises met to plot independence. Well,
actually the Crockers and the Otises did meet there, but
it wasn't a plot. Independence was after a riot broke
(10:48):
out on the militia training ground when some Joseph Otis,
another Otis son was a captain in the militia, Seth
Crocker was a captain in the militia. Each had raised
his own militia company, and some of the Otises failed
to salute Captain Crocker as he went by, and the
Crocker said, you've got to salute Captain Crocker. They said, well,
he's not our captain. We don't have to salute him.
(11:09):
They said, well, yes you do, because he's a captain.
And you'll never guess what happens. All these armed guys
start fighting with each other, and the Otises chased the
Crockers into the Crocker tavern, and there are sword marks
in the beams of the Crocker tavern made by the
swords of the Otises trying to whack the Crockers over
this affront to Captain Captain Crocker's dignity.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
So it wasn't just a you know, a brew if swords,
there's sword marks. They were having him.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
That's right there. Yeah, it's a serious business. Yes. At
the next town meeting, they're debating, then should we be independent?
And there's a lead. There's a loyalist in town, a
guy named Edward Bacon. He says, what's going to happen
if we don't have anyone interceding between otises and crockers here,
they'll try to kill each other. This is what democracy
(11:58):
will be. There will be no check on this. Do
you really want that? And the people of Barnciple said no,
we don't. Furthermore than then elect Bacon to be their
representative to the provincial concess.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
So they voted no because they thought this is what
democracy would.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Be, Yeah, be people trying to kill each other, and
what will stop them from doing that? And I think
one which is a good question, it's a very good question.
I think one of the real triumphs of the American
Revolution is we do replace the bad old government, but
we replace it with one that isn't worse. In fact,
one that is better, that's prevented us, for the most part,
from killing each other. When we get into political arguments
(12:31):
than the subsequent two hundred fifty years.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, and a lot of revolutions around the world.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
You're right. The subsequent government's worse.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
That's right, and that's been usually as much worse. I
just want to mention, since we're on the subject of
New Year's Eve, New Year's Day tomorrow, two hundred and
fifty years ago tomorrow, the first Union flag was raised
in what is now Summerville at Prospect Hill. And in
fact they're commemorating that a parade le a procession leaves
from Somerville City Hall at eleven thirty and then from
(13:00):
eleven to twelve or twelve to one on Prospect Hill,
they're going to have ceremonies, they'll have flag making for kids.
This was really a signal for the unification of the colonies.
And the Union flag has thirteen red and white stripes,
and then in the field, as it's called, is the
Union Jack. So we're fighting for self government under still
(13:22):
the Empire, but we these thirteen colonies are united. It
still wasn't clear that independence was the goal, but this
was really a signal of a unification of the colonies
into one.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Cause you're a historian and well, this is maybe out
of here, out of your area, but we've been a
democracy or a form of representative government for two hundred
and fifty years now exactly? Is that worldwide a long
(13:57):
time for one government, especially a democratic type of government,
to survive.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Oh, yes, it's phenomenally long.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Which means it's hard to keep a democracy going. It's
very hard. And we assume that it's going to keep going.
But yeah, if you look historically, it may not. And
it's quite if history is any guide, it's unlikely that
it would continue.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
It is at the Constitutional Convention they're talking about this
government they're creating, and someone talks about, well, what will
it be like in one hundred and fifty years, and
Nathaniel gorram Medeligate from Massachusetts is is it likely that
this country, including the western country meaning up to the
Mississippi River, will remain under one government one hundred and
fifty years from now? So it really is an achievement
(14:44):
to do this, to create a government that's lasted this long.
It's important to note too, the Massachusetts Constitution is the
oldest written constitution that is still functioning in the world.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Which you can see, Yes, where.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Can you see it at the Massachusetts State Archives at
Georcha and Dorchester, Columbia. Point the State Archives is a
wonderful museum, the Commonwealth Museum, or they have the first
page of it. They left one of their eight sheets
of parchment. They left the last one blank, anticipating there
might be amendments. But this parchment is it, and periodically
(15:19):
someone will come to see is there a comma here
or a period here? There have been numerous amendments since then,
but the structure of government remains the same. Really the
work of John Adams, who recognized human imperfection, the fact
that people often disagree, and that there are different interests,
rich versus poor, urban versus rural. So you create a
(15:40):
government that will balance these different interests and check each
one can check the other. So the legislative branch and
the executive branch, he said, our natural rivals. And if
one doesn't have a check on the other, the weaker
will ever be the lamb and the pause of the wolf.
So sometimes there are complaints about gridlock. If one party
can rolls one branch and not the other, they say, oh,
(16:01):
the gridlock is a bad thing. Gridlock was designed to
prevent majority tyranny.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
In that building out on Columbia Point. That's the building
that I went and met you. Yes, okay, And there
was a man there who showed me a there's a
drum there that was actually in the Battle of Bunker Hills. Yes,
that is that astounds me. You can see right in
front of your face a drum that was at the
Battle of Bunker Hill.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
They also have a Hessian helmet that was captured at Saratoga,
a helmet worn by a German soldier at the Battle
of Saratoga. It's tremendous the number of artifacts they have,
as well as documents there, and documents that really tell
the story of the beginning of government in Massachusetts, the
creation of this system of government.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
All right, for this next question, do the best you can.
If you don't want to answer it, you don't have to.
As you look at what the four Fathers put together,
the founding fathers put together, is there anything, in having
the benefit of hindsight, that they you feel they should
have added or not included anything they should they just
(17:09):
couldn't foresee that didn't force Maybe the four saw it
but couldn't hammer anything out to control it. Would you
have added or subtracted from it.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Oh, what I have done versus what they might have done.
I think one of the big questions we have is
over the institution of slavery. Remember, the whole fight is
over liberty, and yet there are people enslaved, and many
of the enslavers are members of our revolutionaries. Samuel Johnson asks,
how is it we hear the loudest yelps for liberty
(17:41):
from the drivers of negro So that's one of the
great contradictions here. On the other hand, many of them
recognized this hypocrisy.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
And I never would have happened though at all.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
We don't know what would have happened. And we know
actually what happens with Native Americans. Know that the town
of Mashpee on Cape Cod, most of the men go
off to fight on the side of the rebels, and
most of them die in the war. And the Native
Americans are affected by the war in different ways. So
what could they have done differently? I don't know. I mean,
(18:12):
this was one of the most astonishing generations in the
history of the world. You know, try to imagine political
leaders today having the same ability to create a system
of government that will last two hundred and fifty years.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
One thing that seems markedly different from than from today
is generally those funding fathers seem to have best interests
of the country at heart. I mean, I maybe Naiven,
they might have had financial reasons. It might have been
(18:45):
costly for them to exist in status quo, and they
figured way, you know, all these future potential British taxes
are hassled, they want to be done. But they seem
generally more altruistic and now and honest, maybe they weren't.
Maybe they were all just like politicians today, But now
I don't think you can even come close to get
(19:07):
elected to anything if you're completely honest.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I think there was a different idea of civic virtue,
that is, you put your interest aside as you put
in the interest of something greater. That's how we are judged.
And there was this idea that republics could only exist
where in a place where there was civic virtue, this
sense of an obligation to something greater than yourself. And
(19:33):
that really what was driving this, that everyone had to
feel this same sense of this. And there were people
then canivers self interested folks, there were crooks, there were others.
In fact, it's somewhat reassuring to look at history and
see just how much depravity there was.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I'm glad to hear that.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Yeah, that they weren't all Washington or Franklin, and so
we get this idea that everyone was. Those guys were
somewhat rare in their own day, which is why they
out so much.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, if you say that a democracy can't really exist
with our civic virtue and we don't have a lot
of civic virtue, I fear for the future.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
So do I. You know, Franklin wrote it. He said
he thought this government would operate tolerably well as long
as there was a civic virtue. He said once that
was gone, it likely would devolve into tyranny if the
people couldn't be governed any other way. There's a great
moment at some point during the Constitutional Convention when Elizabeth
Willing Powell, who's a Philadelphia socialite, asks him what kind
(20:35):
of government are you creating? Is it a monarchy or
is it a republic? And he said it's a republic
if you can keep it.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
By the way back, one quick thing, referring back to
what happened two hundred and fifty years ago. Right now, tonight.
I didn't know this, and I bet no very few
others know. Ben Franklin was in Quebec, he was in Montreal, Montreal,
he was in Canada. Yes, and he was doing what
he does, what he did in France, he was trying
(21:04):
to do in Canada.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Yeah, Congress sends him a small delegation, Samuel Chase from Maryland.
They also send John Carroll, who's a Catholic priest, knowing
that the French are mainly Catholic, that Franklin is someone
who is universally known, they will help bring Canada onto
our side. And by the time Franklin and Carol and
(21:24):
Chase get there, they realize this is kind of a
hopeless cause that there's no way the Americans can maintain
the loyalty of the Canadian people. So they essentially Franklin
and Carol are part of the exodus. But yeah, Franklin
is in Montreal in April of seventeen seventy six, and
I just.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Picture how different it was. Then they say, Ben, look,
we really need you to go up to Canada and
try to fix things. So Ben says, okay, which means
he's got to go all the way up there. Far
far right.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
They get to upstate New York. They're in Saratoga with
Philip Scott, who is the General in charge of the
Northern Army, and there's still about more than a foot
of snow on the ground. This is April of seventeen
seventy six, and they have to continue on to get
to Montreal. Going along the ice is just broken on
Lake Champlain and they're on a boat. They pull over
(22:17):
at nights they can light a fire, and this guy's
in his seventies and it's a miserable trip, but they're
doing this out of this duty, this obligation to this
cause greater than themselves.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Okay, let's take a break, and after the break, we
will continue with events during the Revolution that took place
other than Boston, so we can include an enfranchise the
surrounding area, the towns and cities in our conversation on WBZ.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
E's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Let's continue with our guest Bob Allison talking about the
Revolution which happened well two hundred and fifty years ago,
and some it has took place tonight, but we're going
to we've covered those and we're going to get in
some others that happened in the towns, in the cities
and towns around Massachusetts and New England. We did talk
about New Hampshire a little bit, but there was another
(23:14):
event called that took place in Portsmouth. Can you talk
about that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Yeah, that was actually in seventeen seventy four. There's a
Fort William and Mary and General Thomas Gage, who's the
commander of the governor of Massachusetts also commander of the
military forces, realizes that there is munitions up there that
he wants to get so that the patriots don't get
their hands on them. So he sends up a force,
but first Paul Revere gets there, alerts the local militia
and they wind up taking the garrison and getting all
(23:41):
the munitions out and bringing them to the rebels, which
is what Gauge didn't want to happen. And by the way,
another thing we recently learned is a Gauge, realizing the
British couldn't blockade the entire American coast, thought about having
a fifty four mile chain strung from the tip of
Cape Cod to Cape Ann that would keep shit out
(24:01):
of the Yeah, yeah, Yeah, a chain maybe six feet
under the water. I don't think anyone ever builds it.
He puts out a contract saying, hey, can anyone help
me build this chain?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Well that's what that's what Russia does to protect itself
against Ukrainian subs in their subject pens. Yes, and this
was just on a larger scale, a bunch.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Of larger scale.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah. In fact, one of the big things that was
happening actually in the winter of seventeen seventy six at
this time was Henry Knox was bringing cannon from Fort
Tykonder Rogan Lake Champlain to lift the siege of Balls.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, we have to talk about all the cities and
towns involved with that. That's a good time to begin that.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Yes, So actually we will be commemorating these things. So
on the tenth of January, a week and a half
from now, in Great Barrington as well as An Alfred
on the Massachusetts border and in Great Barrington at the
Mahawi Theater, there will be a ceremony. We'll have Oxen,
we'll have cannon to commemorate the noble train of artillery.
(24:57):
And then every Saturday through February will be at another
place in Massachusetts commemorating this In the nineteen twenties, Massachusetts
and New York put up markers along this roadway. Some
guys in Otis realized that it wasn't really marking where
the trail happened. So they went into the woods and
they found the original route of Knox's artillery well by
(25:20):
looking at maps, going to the state archives, and looking
at documents that also traced the map.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
So they were Knox's group was taking notes as they went.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
I guess the Knox has a journal, so you know,
maybe we.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Should back up and explain Henry Knox who he was
and what he did, and then get back into the route.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Okay, So Henry Knox was a bookseller in Boston. He
had a bookstore in Cornhill, which is near Government Center today,
and he sold a lot of He was interested in
military science, and so he had built a fort in
Roxbury and on his own. He with a group of guys.
He had been part of a militia company. But he's
a guy who understood military stars and he impresses Washington.
(26:03):
Knox is twenty four years old at this time.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
How did he meet in Washington to impress him?
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Washington arrived in July of seventeen seventy five. Henry Knox
knows Washington is going to go inspecting all the way
to Dorchester Heights and so knocks him down on the road,
sees him, flags him down and says, come see the
fort I built. And so Washington goes and sees it
and is impressed. Here's a guy who understands how to
build fort.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
So he gives Knox kind of a good news bad
news proposition. The good news, I'm going to put you
in charge of all the artillery in the Continental Army.
The bad news is you have to go to Fort
Taykonderroga three hundred miles away and get it and bring
it back.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
So I'm not right then, not right on the spot?
Or was it right?
Speaker 3 (26:39):
It wasn't on the spot, but unders And so he
asks Knox to do a survey of all the artillery
that the army has, what's what they need, and then
sends him off. And Taykonderoga had been captured in May
of seventeen seventy five by Benedict Arnold and Ethan Allen.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
And basically without a fight, right, without.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
A fight, Yeah, And so Knox knew that's where the
artillery is, So in December of seventeen seventy five he
goes to Fort Tykonderoga as well as to another of
Fort George on Lake Champlain and gets this artillery, builds sleds,
and then hires teamsters to start dragging it back along
the frozen roads. They need to have the roads frozen
(27:20):
because each piece of artillery weighs about one thousand pounds,
so it's really heavy artillery they are bringing back on
sledgs pulled by horses and oxen. How many pieces about
sixty pieces of artillery fifty nine to sixty two, somewhere
in that range. And they're also tied to ropes because
if they're crossing a frozen river or a frozen lake
and they start to break through, they need some way
(27:42):
of pulling them out. It do have a few drop through,
and then the men have to pull these cannon from
the bottom of the river or the bottom of the lake.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I can't imagine we none of us can imagine how hard,
how tough people had to be back then they really Oh,
by the way, if this cannon breaks through the ice,
you need to figure right away to pull it back
up and it weighs, by the way, it weighs one
thousand pounds. Yeah, and as ice on top.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
That's right, yes, And Knox would go out, have guys
go out the night before if they're going to cross,
and drill holes in the ice, so then water will
come up and form on top of the ice and
harden it the next day and by the next day
when they're crossing with oxen horses, and if something starts
to break through, they are going to cut so that
the oxen and horses aren't pulled in.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
But they also have barrels attached to the cannon, and
that kind of like booyze to mark the spot where
the cannon is. So a great deal of planning goes
into this. Knox writes about holding these things then houlding
them up the mountains, up the Berkshires is one challenge.
Getting them down is also a challenge, because they're going
to run over a horse or an ox And who's
in front of the artillery.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
How many miles is that trip?
Speaker 3 (28:47):
It's about three hundred miles.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Three hundred miles. How long did it take them?
Speaker 3 (28:51):
They started actually in early January, and Knox writes to
Washington in December, saying within two weeks I expect to
deliver and noble train of artillery. They actually don't get
it too until the toward the end of January, so
it's about six weeks that they are in motion.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Six weeks getting up and back.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
No, no, six weeks getting back. Okay, First Knox had
to go to New York to see if New York
would loan them any artillery, and they said no, the
Army the Continental Congress still hasn't paid us for We've
already loaned them. We're not giving them any more. So
they have to go up to Tekondoo get to get it.
Knox had left Boss left Cambridge in November and gets
back at the end of January, gets the can into
(29:33):
Framingham and then goes to tell Washington this is where
the cannon are. And then John Adams goes to look
at the canon the next day as he's on his
way back to Congress.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Okay, now back to the back in the twenties, they
decided to mark the actual exact room, which is something
I'm very much interested in. I don't want a vague
they came through town. I want to know. I want
to stand right here and know that they came right through.
And so there are those markers. Can you run through
the times that the towns and that he came through
(30:06):
and the towns that will be involved in things you
do well.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Fortunately, I have a Revolution two fifty scarf which if
you go to our website Revolution two fifty Revolution two
five oo dot org you can find one of these
that has all of the towns from Fort Ticonderoga Alford
in Massachusetts is where they cross the border, and there
will be a ceremony there Saturday the tenth, Alfred Egremont,
(30:32):
Great Barrington, Great Barrington's We're going to have our settlement Monterey, Otis.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
So the scarf lists all the towns on the route.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Yes, up to Brighton, Roxbury, South Boston, March seventeenth. In
South Boston we will commemorate evacuation Day.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
And it says Henry Knox twentyes. Oh and it's it's
not cheap, it's not this is a nice, super nice.
I should have brought you one now I'm sorry. Yes,
you bring that next time by buy one of these.
Where where can.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
The Revolution two five zero dot org The Revolution two
fifty website. We have a couple of different scarfs, and
make sure you look for the Knox Trail one.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, it's kind of it says Knox Trail two fifty.
It's got a picture of a cannon on it. Yep,
but it's not the My point is, folks, it's not
this cheap stretchy ill. This is this is made by
these It seems like somebody from back then would have
made it.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
It does, it's very well and it made Extub, a
company that makes scarves for European soccer teams.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
It's wool.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
I think it is wool. Actually that is nice.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
So uh, now, did you run through all the towns?
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Not all the towns there there are quite In fact,
there are about thirty markers in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
YT's break and we will go through the towns and
you can talk about you have in detail the events
that are taking place along these dots.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Okay, it's night Side with.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Our guess is Bob Allison. He's, you know, kind of
one of the bosses of Rev two fifty, an organization
very involved in marketing events related to the revolution. On
the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary, I just want you
to all to know that I have purchased with my
own money. I did not beg one from Bob the
Knox Trail to fifty scarf because it's it's fantastic. If
(32:20):
you're in the history and you see this thing, you're
going to flip out. If you wear it out, Everyone's
going to say, Wow, that's beautiful. Who's Henry Knox.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
I find people staring at me now when I'm wearing
it and asking it, wondering who is Henry Knox and
what's the Knox Trail. And we're commemorating the Knox Trail
in January and in February, stopping in different towns. Actually,
because there are so many towns, a lot of towns
are doing their own events, but we are having big
events in a couple of centers. So in Great Barrington
(32:51):
on the tenth of January we'll have Oxen cannon canon
demonstration other things than the following week and the seventeenth
and spring Field at the Springfield Armory. Henry Knox, by
the way, thought this would be a good place to
put an armory in Springfield. And then on the thirty
first in Worcester, and Worcester was an important place for
revolutionary events. And then in February actually February thirteenth in
(33:15):
Framingham and framing him is where the Knox placed the canon.
He went off to tell Washington, but then in Or
in mid February, and the twenty actually end of February,
in Cambridge on the twenty seventh, and then in Roxbury
the following weekend on the seventh, and then Dorchester Heights
on March seventeenth. That's evacuation Day every year, always a
(33:36):
big event.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
We have to go through Evacuation Day very briefly, but
with as much detail as we can get in briefly.
It's a big deal. These it's the you know, the
this frosting on top of this, a trail of sixty
thousand pounds artillery pieces through the winter, three hundred miles
incredible thing. And then when they get here they bring
(33:58):
him to the top of Dorchester High where that results
in the British leaving. There are a couple of details
to talk about there. How long after they got here
into town did they get them up on the hill.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
They actually started the operation to move them up on
March fourth, and on March fifth they have put the
fortifications to the top of Dorchester.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
The fortifications include more than cannon. They include breastworks rest
where breastworks.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
The Americans were afraid of getting shot in the legs,
so they would make a fence and actually they made
this with things called chandeliers. They would put a couple
of pieces of wood together and make a frame and
then fill that with sticks and logs. The ground was
too hard to dig into, so they had to make
all of this stuff in Roxbury and Dorchester cutting down trees,
(34:47):
then haul all of that stuff up along with rocks.
They had webbing filled with rocks. They called this barrels,
and then those also acted as part of the fortification.
And also if the British start coming up the height,
they can push these down the role that rolled down.
And so they make these fortifications on the night of
March fourth, by the morning of March fifth there there
(35:10):
then they have been firing from Leechmere Point in Cambridge
at the British diversion as a diversion, also to cover
the noise. The British will think we're coming from that direction. Meanwhile,
we're putting fortifications south of town. And then they put
another fortification at what's then Nook Hill. It's now roughly
the corner of b Street and Broadway in South Boston.
(35:31):
I know we wanted to talk about things outside of Boston.
Now we are talking about this. And by the way,
another thing to remember is most of the men involved
were from other places. In fact, over the course of
the war, more men from Massachusetts serve in the Continental
Army than from any other state. That's for the next
eight years, and every town is going to be involved
(35:51):
in this, having to fill its quota of soldiers. And
just I want to make sure I have time to
mention a thing happening in April, either the nineteenth or
twenty at the town of Medford is putting up a
statue to a woman named Sarah Bradley Fulton. This was
considered the mother of the Boston Tea Party, and so
they're building a statue to her in Medford. A very
(36:13):
exciting event that will be happening around Patriot's Day. But
back to evacuation Day, A.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Couple of questions, Sir, why didn't they start building these
fortifications prior to the cannon coming up there?
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Because then the British would storm the heights and take them.
And that's what they thought. The British were going to do.
And in fact, on about the ninth or tenth of March,
the British do try to storm the heights, and it's
kind of a good thing.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Happens.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
A big storm disrupts the British attack, and it's a
good thing because it disrupts the attack. Also, because Washington
really wanted to have a battle, he wanted to go
into Boston. When the British left to go attack Dorchester Heights,
he wanted to bring his force across the back Bay
from Cambridge and attack Boston, and that probably would not
(37:03):
have worked. Washington kept wanting another battle. His generals kept saying, well,
was Washington knew about Bunker Hill, what a big blow
that was to the British. And Washington thinks, all we
need to do is do that again, as generals say,
that was really a fluke. Next time we get into
a big battle, we're likely to lose, right, and we don't.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Have been catastrophic at that point. It would have been okay.
So they get up there in one night, they build
these breastworks and they drag the cannon and how many
did they actually drag up that?
Speaker 3 (37:34):
I don't know. What we do know is not all
of the guns the British thought were pointed at them
actually were guns. They also brought up some logs they
had painted black to look like guns. And also they
didn't have a whole lot of ammunition. They didn't have
a lot of gunpowder or cannon balls. There was one
cannon ball at least lodged in a church steeple in
Brattle Square, roughly where the government's Center Tees station is now.
(37:57):
Henry Cabot Lodge, who spoke at the dedication of the
doorch Chester Heights monument in nineteen oh two, talked about
that cannon bull imagining being fired from Dorchester Heights. You
know that far. But they don't have that many cannon
balls to fire.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Very short time. The British could have burned down Boston
before they left, Yes, they could have. They so they
looked up and they said, oh, there a cannon They
could hurt our ships. We got to leave. But they
could have burned down Boston. And why didn't they? Was
there some sort of deal made that?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Actually the chairman of the Board of Selectionment of Boston
comes to the lines with a message for General Washington,
and it says he had heard General House say if
the Americans don't fire on the British fleet as they
are leaving, the British won't burn Boston.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
As a deal.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Well, it wasn't really a deal. Washington says. This is
not an official communication, but it gives him an indication
the British are going to leave, so they don't. They
do fire, but not they're not going to attack Boston.
They're going to let the British leave. And so they
watch and on March seventeenth, they see the British have
loaded all the ships. They've also loaded about eleven hundred
(39:03):
loyalists onto the ships, and then they sail off. By
this time, Washington realizes the fight's going to go to
New York. So we started sending men to New York,
and the British evacuate Boston on March seventeenth, and that
really is Massachusetts' independence.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, great, great, great hour, Bob Allison, thank you so
very much. And again there's a lot of if you're
into the Revolution and things like this, Henry not knock Scarf,
it's the Revolution two fifty dot org. What all I
did was google Revolution two fifty Henry Knock Scarf, and
(39:38):
I got to all the merchandise.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Now I will tell you about the other events happening
to commemorate the Knox Trail.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Okay, that's right, Well, thank you so much. We have
Brian Kane coming up, who is the executive director of
the MBT Board of Advisors, to really explain to us
how important transportation is and how it affects everything from
how much money you make to your healthcare, to where
you live, et cetera. And that's next on WBZ.
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