January 19, 2026 • 43 mins
We began the program with four interesting guests on topics we think you should know more about!
It’s MLK Day! Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Baptist minister and leader of the American Civil Rights Movement who fought against segregation and racial injustice. He earned his PhD in systematic theology from BU‘s School of Theology in 1955 and donated his papers to the University – Hendrickson talked about MLK and their collection.
Guest: Ryan Hendrickson, Assist. Dir. for Manuscripts at the Howard Gotlieb Archival Research Center at Boston University
We’ve been told for years to prioritize low-fat dairy, but now RFK Jr. has flipped the food pyramid to emphasize whole milk and full fat dairy – Is this in our best interest? Dr. Mozaffarian explained.
Guest: Dr. Dariush Mozaffarian, cardiologist and director of the Food Is Medicine Institute at Tufts University
The interest in therapeutic communities appears to be growing among U.S. healthcare providers, and U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is encouraging the creation of more "healing farms" across the country for people struggling with substance use. Shawn’s addiction treatment “farm” happened quite by accident, and he’s glad it did!
Guest: Shawn Hayden, President/CEO of the Gardner Athol Area Mental Health Association
A new trend is on the rise for Gen Z men – it’s called “Trad Son” or “Hub-Son”: a stay-at-home-son who chooses to live with their parents, often rent-free, and take on domestic responsibilities typically associated with stay-at-home partners. **One man quit his $190K job to become a stay-at-home son. Is this a healthy trend? What are the drawbacks / benefits psychologically – and how to do parents who don’t approve of this trend effectively handle a trad son?
Guest: Dr. Sanam Hafeez, Founder and Director of Comprehend the Mind
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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All right time now for sports of Patriots gearing up
for the AFC Championship game against the Broncos. They traveled
to Denver on Saturday. Kickoff is set for three o'clock
on Sunday, and the only Boston team in action tonight
is the Celtics, who are in Detroit to face the Pistons.
That game just getting underway. Now you're listening to WBZ
(01:13):
News Radio Boston. I'm Sherry Small. Now Tonight's side with you.
Speaker 6 (01:18):
It's nice eyes, Dan Ray, I'm going easy Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Thank you very much, Sherry Small. As both Sherry Small,
Rob Brooks and I work the Martin Luther King Holiday,
first of all, great day in America to celebrate, to
celebrate the life and legacy of a great man, doctor
Martin Luther King. I chose to work today as I
(01:45):
often work holidays, because frankly, I enjoy working holidays, and
I hope you enjoy having a live talk show.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
To listen to.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Before we get to our four guest this hour, just
a quick reminder that we will announce the winner, of course,
the as everyone most people thought the Patriots won yesterday,
and we have a winner. We have a winner from
our predict the final score, and we will announce that winner,
(02:14):
who should be no stranger to most of you. Always
great when it is a nightside listener and nightside caller
that wins, uh, and we will award the prize a
nightside coffee mug right after nine o'clock tonight. Anyway, my
name's Dan right, I am live right now. This is
and you can prove it by the way after nine
(02:35):
o'clock joining us by calling at six, one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty or six one, seven, nine three
one ten thirty. We're going to talk at that time
with Brian Kane, the executive director of the MBTA Advisory Board.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
That was a very interesting article in.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
The Boston Globe on Friday which talks about a real
financial crisis. The teas spent their entire existence in financial crisis.
But Brian, Brian Kane, the executive director of the MBTA
Advisory Board, will break it down for us and then
we're going to talk at ten o'clock. You know, it's
tough to get a doctor these days, and there was
(03:12):
an editorial in the Boston Globe today which caught my
attention by Shirah Schoenberg, which mentioned an old friend, doctor
Jeff Gold, who is a direct primary care physician. And
we will explain the difference. And for those of you
who have trouble finding doctors in Massachusetts, which is a
common problem in this great medical state, will help you
(03:35):
out tonight beginning at ten o'clock. But first we have
four excellent guests, and what better way to start off
MLK Day than to speak with Ryan Hendrickson. He is
the assistant director of manuscripts at the Howard Gottlieb Archival
Research Center at Boston University. Doctor King secured his PhD
(03:57):
in theology at Boston University in Boston University in nineteen
fifty five and has donated his papers to the university.
And I am delighted to welcome Ryan Hendrickson to Nightside. Ryan,
Welcome to Nightside.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
How are you, sir?
Speaker 7 (04:13):
I'm great, Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I am a graduate of the Law School at Boston University,
which you may or may not know, and I don't
know the papers which are nearly as important as doctor
Martin Luther King. But his papers can be seen by students.
But this collection is also open by appointment to the
(04:37):
general public, which I think is really interesting.
Speaker 7 (04:40):
Tell us about that, sure well, doctor King. After he graduated, obviously,
he went on to do many great things, and in
nineteen sixty four he was actually the first person to
donate their papers to what was becoming the Special Collections
Department at Boston University, So he was really the first
collection papers that existed at the school at all. And yeah,
(05:04):
they've been open to the public ever since then. Normally
people can contact us. They can email us at archives
at BU dot e DU. We're only open certain days
of the week and certain times, obviously, but yeah, the
papers are there for people to come and look through
and gain inspiration from.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Now.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Howard Gottlieb,
for whom the Archival Research Center was named, was a
long time librarian archivist at Boston University.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
Correct.
Speaker 7 (05:34):
Well, he actually was recruited there from Yale and recruited
to there from Yale, and yeah, well he actually started
writer again around nineteen sixty four sixty five. Yeah, he
and I actually worked with him for a few years
when I started. I started there in two thousand and
he passed away in two thousand and five, so there
was a few years there where we actually overlapped. But yeah,
(05:55):
he really was the founding director and really the cornerstone
of the entire center.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah. I had interviewed him at different times as a
television reporter, and also I was a lost student there.
I graduated in the mid nineteen seventies from Boston University
Law School, and so I knew of him, and I
was reminded today when I did my research on this
story that the Archival Research center was named in his honor,
a very appropriate honor. Tell us a little bit of
(06:24):
about the King selection, the doctor Martin Luther King Collection.
I guess it's a wide variety of writings and letters,
but there's also some other more personal items, including I
believe his diploma from the theology school.
Speaker 7 (06:48):
That's right.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (06:49):
It actually starts chronologically with items from when he was
a student at Morehouse College, so it really goes back
to the late nineteen forties, and then we have all
of the materials from when he was the student that
be you the papers he wrote, his his blue exam books,
if you remember those, his notebook.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
I'd rather forget those if you want to make.
Speaker 7 (07:11):
Yeah, but when you can, if you want to see
the grade he got in the comments from his professors,
he was somebody who he was. Yeah, he was very
a very diligent student, apparently, And we have all of
his old syllabi and all of that, and then it
really it keeps going after that into his his work
at in Montgomery, Alabama, and then the beginnings of the
(07:31):
Montgomery bus boycott, which was obviously a very important you know,
and the event in civil rights history, and then his
other manuscripts were like his his memoirs Dried towards Freedom,
and then his other essays and sermons and speeches, and
then a lot of the material is letters to him
from people all around the world in the United States
but also all around the globe actually who writing into
(07:55):
support him and wanting to meet with him and talked
about him and get his responses to the issues that
he was dealing with. So a big chunk of the
collection is actually things that he collected and sort of
he and his various secretaries from his offices that they
wanted to preserve for future generations who wanted to learn
about the movement.
Speaker 8 (08:14):
So they knew as.
Speaker 7 (08:15):
It was going on that this was very historic, and
so they tried to preserve a lot of these things.
And then the last material we have it really goes
up from him to about nineteen sixty five, and it
kind of cuts off right before the march on Washington.
So then there's a whole other collection that's in Atlanta
at Morehouse College that has that later material. So we
(08:35):
have the sort of the first part and they have
the later part there.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Just amazing, I assume, as they say, has to be
the most honest guy in the world to allow his
blue books, his blue test books. I've I've what did
he He must have kept them? I burned mine. Holy kidding.
Speaker 8 (09:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (09:01):
So one thing it's funny at what that you learn
when you look at the papers is when he came
to Boston, he wanted to be he wanted to probably
be following his father's footsteps and be a preacher. But
he also I think had a certain dream of being
an academic. So he studied systematic theology, which is which
is a very kind of philosophical, abstract branch of theology.
(09:23):
And I think an early point in his his studies,
I think he thought of himself as like, yes, this
is this is my path. And then the funny thing
is there were a lot of professors at the you
that were actually sort of older, you know, had participated
in the civil rights movement back in the twenties and
thirties and forties, and they talked to him about other,
(09:44):
you know, possibilities that you know, things that he could do,
maybe he could be a little more more engaged with
some social issues the time. And then also I think
living in Boston, you know, he lived at the corner
of Mass Ave in Columbus h and there was a
there was a real thriving black life being going on
in Boston at that time that he wanted to be
(10:04):
a part of as well. And from someone who came,
you know, from the South, I think it was it
was very engaging with him. I think he it really
opened his eyes to a whole other life that he
hadn't really participated in before. So he really changed a
lot during the just the very short four years that
he was in Boston. He left as a very different
person than when he came.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
One other question, obviously, he was, sadly was the was
the target of a lot of hatred, particularly as he
became better known.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
Is is any of the.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Hate mail that he and his family was subjected to.
Are they part of the archives at all? Or No?
Speaker 7 (10:47):
He did save some, Yeah, and you can, and they
would label it, actually his secretary would label you know,
they would put the word hate on top.
Speaker 9 (10:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (10:54):
And then there were other letters that they would write
love or the fan letters, and another they would write
strange if just they didn't know what to make of them.
But yeah, if you if you really wanted to see
the kind of things that they thought were worth saving,
they would save them, and I think in some cases
it was because he had been attacked during his book tour,
first Drive Towards Freedom and Women had actually come up
(11:16):
and stabbed him very very almost very close to killing him,
and he actually talked about it in his very last
speech he ever gave h you if you watch that speech,
he actually goes into detail about that encounter. But I
think after that the decision was, well, if something like
this happens again, we want to have some kind of
a trail or evidence of CIS as somebody who had
been planning something. It's not a lot, but but it is.
(11:40):
It is interesting and sometimes students are surprised that that
he would have retained them. And my response is that, well,
you know, if you're if you're thinking of keeping these
things for posterity, you don't want to edit them out.
You want to keep them for other people to see.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So so what is the easiest way. Students must know
their way If there are people on our audience some
day or some day you know soon or some day
in the future, I would like to view some of
the archives. Did they just contact the Gottlieb Archival Research
Center at Boston University and set up a time and
(12:15):
an appointment and explain what they're what their purpose is.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
I assume.
Speaker 7 (12:20):
Yeah, there's a couple of ways to look at the
papers there if you just want to sort of get
a sense of what's in there. We actually do have
a permanent exhibit that's up right now that that's always
up in the library. So if the library is open,
this is a Newgard Memorial Library. If the library's open,
that that room is open. So you will have to
sort of check in at the front desk and say
(12:42):
I'd like to go see the you know, the kingroom
on the third floor. Sure, Uh, go up there, and
you can see examples from all different aspects of taking
you know, samples from the papers. You can see his
student work. You can see the Montgomery Buss book out.
You can see the work he did with the Freedom
rides and Snick and his trips to India and Africa,
(13:02):
and letters from friends of his that he had at
Boston as well.
Speaker 10 (13:07):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (13:07):
And if if you actually have you know, research questions,
if you if you want to dig in deeper, that's
what you could you could email us and then we
could you know, we can work and work out the
time and how to help you out, Ryan.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I appreciate all the information. Great to be in touch,
Ryan Handrick send the assistant director from Manuscripts at the
Howard Gottlieb Archival Research Center at Boston University, which is
inside the Mugar Library.
Speaker 5 (13:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Thank you for tonight. You're a great guest and a
great interview. I appreciate the opportunity, particularly on this MLK day.
Speaker 9 (13:40):
Great.
Speaker 7 (13:40):
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
You very welcome.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
When we get back, we're going to talk about some controversy,
but maybe less controversy then we realize our FK Junior,
Robert F. Kennedy, Junr. Has has had an impact on
the food pyramid. We're going to talk with a cardio
all just and director of the Food is Medicine Institute
(14:02):
at Tough's University. I think we might be surprised with
what doctor dush Mussafarin has to say about Kennedy on
the whole question of whole milk versus what was thought
to be more healthy milk. We'll explain coming up right
(14:23):
after the break.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
It's Night Side with Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
My guess is doctor dush Mozafarian, doctor Mosafarian. Welcome to nightside.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
How are you.
Speaker 8 (14:37):
I'm doing well, Nice to be here.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Lovely to have you here.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
You're a cardiologist and director of the Food is Medicine
Institute at Tough's University. And all of a sudden, uh,
many people I think are taking a second look at
what Robert F. Kennedy Junior has said about low fat
milk milk versus whole milk.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
He Uh, there's a real split in the ranks. Here.
Tell us about it.
Speaker 8 (15:03):
Well, you know, the dietary guidelines just came out there,
the Nations and Nutrition Playbook, revised every five years, and
they're they're of course important for giving general guidance to
the public, but most people don't have helped with bet
standards for school meals, for daycare. They shape military rations
and federal cafeterias, and influence how companies formulate and market food.
(15:23):
So they're they're really important, and there's many changes. One'm
happy to talk about them. The one that you mentioned
I think is actually long overdue. As a cardiologist who
studies dietary fat, you know, the guidelines say you can
include whole fat dairy with with no added sugar, and
that is a positive change, you know, taking us away
from all this flavored, sugar sweetened, you know, non fat
(15:46):
dairy that that have really you know, loaded up our
refrigerators and school school meal trays for decades.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So, given a choice, I used to be a whole
milk guy, and I was influenced by everything that I read,
and I became a two percent milk guy. And then
I said, if I'm going to be two percent, why
not be one percent? So I'm a one percent milk guy.
And then it tastes the same to me. Am I
making a mistake by not having whole milk in our refrigerator?
Speaker 8 (16:16):
Yeah? So I think what we can say convincingly is that,
you know, low fat's not better than whole fat, but well,
it's also not necessarily worse. And so I think right now,
if you're happy with the fat content of your yogurt
or your cheese or your milk, you know, stick with it,
no problem. But if you prefer hole or you want
to switch the whole, there's no evidence that that's worse
(16:36):
for you. And there's maybe some evidence, early evidence that
it could be better, but not enough that I would
tell everybody to switch. But maybe most importantly, if you're
having a sweetened yogurt or chocolate milk, or you know,
other things, because dairy just doesn't taste good for you, you know,
then that might be a great opportunity to switch the
whole fat yogurt, add some berries or nuts, and get
(16:57):
away from the sweet stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Okay, well you've nailed me there, because I do like
a chocolate milk, but I will take that into consideration.
I know that you were quoted prominently in this New
York Times article from November by Caroline Hopkins' legacy. And
what I don't understand is these studies are done. There
(17:21):
was one study from Norway which found one thing, a
study from October at seventy four thousand adults in Norway
found one thing, and then a study in this country
found a different conclusions.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
That's what.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Is so confusing to us, the consumers. I mean, for
a long time, Robert F. Kennedy Junior was the butt
of a lot of jokes. And the more I read
about him now I'm beginning to wonder that, hey, this
guy has has had some interesting points, not without controversy.
And I don't want you to endorse anybody here, but
he was not what he was presented to be. He
(18:02):
was sort of, I mean, made a caricature of by
a lot, And it sounds to me like this guy's
actually at least has some thoughts and has been thinking
about these issues.
Speaker 8 (18:13):
Oh well, you know, I don't I don't agree with
all of his positions on offtism or vaccines or but
you know, for food, he's mostly got it right, mostly
got it right, and he's attacking you know, well entrenched
industry interests that have that have dominated kind of dietary
guidelines for decades. And this is quite interesting. Republicans, Democrats,
(18:35):
you know, Democratic States, people in Congress, everyone saying, hey,
you know, Secretary sticks to food, and we're happy because
he really does have it mostly right.
Speaker 10 (18:44):
You know.
Speaker 8 (18:44):
Beyond the dairy, the biggest single change in dietary guidelines
is really refreshingly plain spoken, limit or avoid highly processed
packaged foods, ready to eat food sugary drinks, refined carbohydrates,
food with foods with additives and preservatives. That hasn't been
a major message in the guidelines. In fact, the guidelines
have actually done the opposite. They've said, you know, there's
(19:07):
no bad foods as long as you hit your nutrient targets.
Anything can fit into a balanced pattern. And that's really
an industry promoted message, right that eat everything in moderation,
And this guideline says, no, don't eat everything in moderation.
There's a lot of bad food out there, and eat
real food. And I think that's actually the most single
most important advance in these actual guidelines.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
So things like, for example, soups, which we had always
been told, oh, soups are great, you know, bowl of soup, whatever,
But now the salt content worries me about soups, and
all of a sudden, I'm thinking about salt contents with
even you know, sort of high end soups, even like
a progresso soup, which is a little more expensive and
you would think.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Is a little better.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
It just is amazing to me that these that I
guess the food industry has such a financial influence here
that not only they contribute to politicians, but I guess
they participate in these studies and they they are able
to have these studies come to conclusions which are beneficial
of them. It sounds to me like it's, uh, we
(20:12):
got to take everything pardon the pun here with a
huge grain of salt.
Speaker 8 (20:18):
Well, the simplest approach to a healthy diet is to
you know, buy ingredients and cook or assemble the food yourself.
That's obviously that's straightforward approach. But you know, whole grains,
nuts and seeds, you know, dairy, chicken, poultry, eggs, that's
that's hard for folks because people are busy and they
need to grab something, they need something prepared, and so
then it gets complicated. And that's where you know, we
(20:40):
really need, you know, policy change so that people don't
have to go and navigate and figure out what's what's
what's good or bad? I think for now, while we're
waiting for policy change to hopefully stimulate better food through
our federal food programs and healthcare dollars and all kinds
of levers we have, you're right, you know, you have
to look at the label and start to pay attention.
And what's interesting is there has been a sea change
(21:01):
of interest. Five years ago, maybe ten or twenty percent
of Americans would look at labels. Now it's sixty or
seventy percent. And so like you, they're turning the package
over and saying, wow, you know this has five hundred
milligrams of sodium or three hundred and fifty milligrams of
sodium instead of fifty, which is probably what I should have.
Maybe I should, you know, take a second look.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I got to tell you I am a label looker.
I've only become home one later in my life here,
but I used to be a pepsi drinker until one
day I looked at the label and I said, forty
one carbs for every can of pepsi.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
You know. Now it's like diet pepsi for me, and
it really helped me lose weight as well as being
on a great diet program called Awake in one eighties.
So yeah, I'm fascinated by this, and I really appreciate
you you've described You've described it to us very clearly,
which I really do appreciate. I'd love to get you
back periodically as some of these stories unfold. I really
(22:01):
enjoy chatting with you.
Speaker 8 (22:03):
Happy to be on Keep up the healthy diet. It's
the single most important thing you can do for the
healthy long life.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Doctor Darius Mussafran Safarian excuse me, cardiologist and director of
Food is Medicine Institute at Toughs University. Thank you so much,
Doctor appreciated your ton. When we get back right after
the newscast, we're going to talk about a very interesting farm,
(22:30):
not a farm per se, although it is a farm,
but it helps people get through addiction treatments. Sean Hayden,
President and CEO of the Gardener Atholl Area Mental Health Association,
will join us. This is a great story. We'll be
back right after the news at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
With Dany. I'm Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
Thanks Erry.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
The interesting therapeutic communities is growing across the United States,
and there's as a matter of fact, speaking of the
Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, as we
did last segment about the food Pyramid, he's encouraging the
creation of more what are called healing farms across the
country for people struggling struggling with substance abuse. With us
(23:24):
is Sean Hayden. Sean is the president and CEO of
the Gardner Atholl Area Mental Health Association. It's an addiction
treatment farm. Kind of happened by accident, but it's doing
great work up there in north central Massachusetts. Delighted to
welcome Sean Hayden to Night's Side. Sean. You started with
(23:44):
two goats and a pony, and you have really really
provided a service to a lot of people and also
increased the animal population in the farm.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
How are you this evening?
Speaker 6 (23:57):
Very well?
Speaker 5 (23:57):
Did?
Speaker 9 (23:57):
Thank you so much for having me on my pleasure.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
You're really doing God's work here.
Speaker 9 (24:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
You bought the farm. You weren't looking to start an
addiction treatment centers.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
I understand it.
Speaker 9 (24:09):
No, we really weren't. You know, our organization has been
providing substance use treatment since nineteen seventy two, and we
have a really robust aftercare housing program for our kind
of more traditional recovery programs, and we were looking to
add another house to that program. And you know what
we were looking for is a house that kind of
checked the boxes for us, which is, I had to
have a bunch of bedrooms, a bunch of bathrooms, a
(24:30):
lot of space for kind of congregate living. And we
finally found a house. It just happened to be sitting
on a at that time a forty acre farm, and
you know, we reached an agreement with the owner to
lease the house and he said, well, I don't know
what I'm going to do with these you know, a couple
of goats and a pony. Can they just stay here?
And we kind of just said sure because we really
needed the house. And what happened was, you know, we said, okay, guys,
(24:53):
you know you're going to live here, can you help
us care for these animals? And very quickly we started
to notice that the people who took an interest in
animals other things are happening in their lives that we
didn't expect. They were staying longer, they're having better outcomes,
and kind of let us down this path of discovery
to say, you know, is there anyone else using farms
is kind of a unique environment to serve people in recovery.
(25:14):
And you know, we found that this whole idea of
care farming had existed for hundreds of years and been
used for all kinds of populations, primarily psychiatric, you know, populations,
people with developmental disabilities. But we couldn't find any other
farms that really specializing in serving people in recovery. But we,
you know, we decided to give it a go, and
it's just taken off like gangbusters.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
So when did you buy When did you buy the farm?
Speaker 5 (25:39):
How long? How long have they been running?
Speaker 6 (25:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (25:43):
Yeah, We started out in twenty eighteen at that site
I just described, and then in twenty twenty, you know,
we couldn't really arrive on a on a sustainable payment
model because our organization really serves people low and no income,
so everything we do comes at no cost to the
care to the people we so and that original model
was kind of a pilot. There was no you know,
(26:04):
insurance reimbursement model or anything like that, so we tried
to do like a low cost private pay model, but
it just didn't work well for the people we serve.
And then in twenty twenty, we're actually getting ready to
shut down the program. It was incredibly successful clinically, but
it was just not sustainable as a nonprofit organization. Our
board kind of said, you know, we can't just supplement
and you know, feed money into this program. We lost
(26:26):
like a half a million dollars over a couple of years.
And then a new property came on the market not
too far away, and we found a path where we
could actually this new site was more conducive to a
to be able to do a license treatment center there,
and we were able to do that, and now the
people who attend to our new location that opened in
twenty twenty. They're actually it's an in network benefit on
(26:46):
their mass health benefits.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
So let me ask you which I don't understand. I'm
sure you can explain to me. You were doing good
work for people who needed help, and there was no
financial support from either the state or the FAS for
a program that you guys were doing great work and
helping people. I mean, where the hell's a our tax
money going if it's not programs like yours.
Speaker 9 (27:09):
Well, the issue we had was that that first farm
was a very old one hundred and fifty year old,
you know, classic New England farmhouse, but it lacked all
the kind of the key qualities you need to be
licensed as treatment center. So it didn't have you know,
fire sprinklers, it wasn't eightya accessible, it didn't have all
those things that are requirements to be able to seek
reimbursement from Medicaid for that. So the new site allowed
us to do that, which really.
Speaker 8 (27:29):
Changed the game.
Speaker 9 (27:29):
So now people will come to us, you know, they
can come to us regardless if they have any income,
no income, and it's really really changed the dynamic.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
It seems to me that the government, instead of knocking
you up. And again, I'm always very skeptical of government
as opposed to coming in and telling you reasons why
they can't support you. They should have commem in and said, look,
we have some programs which will make this ada accessible.
We will make sure that this fire sprinkles here, will
help you bring this up, this building up to date.
(27:59):
So you kent try people as opposed to tell you
know what was it? Robert Kennedy said, some men see
the things the way things are and ask why. Other
see the way things are and ask why not. I'm
one of those who asked why not. Why would the
government not come in and say we could make this
work in conjunction? You would just infuriates me, to be
(28:20):
honest with you.
Speaker 9 (28:21):
Sean, Yeah, well I think I think like you do, Dan,
because when we first got the new site, we went
to get it credentialed as a state license treatment center.
I actually didn't tell them ahead of time that they
were coming to a farm. I looked at their their
licensing rubric and I said, okay, these are all the
checkboxes I have to meet. And they showed up and
they're like, where are we what are we doing here?
And I said, pull out your checklist, we can make
(28:41):
this work. And sure enough, you know, we had met
all the specifications that were required. What they the regulations
didn't say it couldn't be a farm, you know. And
I'm a person of recovery. I always joked like I
was using my old skills to UH for something good
this time.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Well yeah, no, I mean, I guess you're you're bad experience.
But I that's one of Kennedy's quotes that I really like,
because the government should be looking at situations like that
and say, and not you know, asking well, why do
you want us to do this? Why shouldn't they do it?
It's as simple as that. So you're successful. How are
there the patients, the customers? I don't know what your
(29:19):
character the guests, I don't know what phraseology you use.
How are the folks who you're treating, How are they doing?
Speaker 9 (29:26):
They're doing fantastic. I mean, we've had remarkable success. And
I think the reason is, you know, the wait list
that we'll never see the end of. And I think
what we offer people is the treatment system. You know, locally, nationally,
it's very homogeneous. So you go to these treatment centers
and they look very very similar everywhere you go, and
when you think about how they're structured, they look very
(29:47):
much like almost like a high school environment and schedule.
And when you talk to the people we serve, you say,
tell me what your school experience was like, the vast
majority will tell you they didn't have a positive school experience.
So what we do is we rap clinical care around
a unique learning environment and healing environment, and they'll behold.
People come and they don't want to leave.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
So how can people get in touch with you if
they feel they need some help and if this sounds
like a program that they would that they would prosper in,
or how can people who have friends who need some
help get in contact with you? Do you have a
big long waiting list?
Speaker 10 (30:25):
You know?
Speaker 9 (30:26):
You know, yeah, we do run a waiting list. But
I always tell people don't never let a waiting list,
you know, scare you off from putting in a referral,
because the thing that happens is when a bet opens,
we go to that waiting list and the people many
times on that waiting list have moved on to a
different program. So I always encourage people to put a
referral in, and they can do that by calling the
farm directly. It's nine to seven eight eight three zero farm.
(30:47):
Is the phone number they can call, or they can
go right to our parent company, Gamma's website. It's www
dot g a a MHA dot org and there's tons
of information about the program and all of our programs
really and how to get in touch and learn more.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
There, give me their phone number one more time. It's
nine seven eight eight three three farm.
Speaker 9 (31:08):
Is that it ninety seven eight eight three zero farm.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Free zero farm good? Okay, thank you for that correction.
Nine seven eight eight three zero farm. No cost associated directly.
But obviously if someone has insurance that helps the program
as well.
Speaker 9 (31:24):
Yeah, the only insurance plan we take is for people
on Mass Health. If someone is on commercial insurance, we
actually have a contract with the Department of Public Health
Bureau of Substance Addiction Services, we're able to take people
no insurance, people on commercial plans. So anyone who needs
the program and is a fit's the clinical criteria for admission,
we can take care of them.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Sounds great. And when you say they have health insurance,
it could be Blue Cross, Blue Shield or something like
that as well.
Speaker 6 (31:49):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
Some of the big one.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
It's Okay, great, Sean, I appreciate you guys are doing
great work out there.
Speaker 5 (31:55):
Keep on keeping on.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I appreciate your time tonight, Thank you so much.
Speaker 9 (31:58):
Dan appreciate having me on.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
Absolutely my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Where we get back, this is pretty interesting, Okay, this one, well,
they're all interesting tonight, but this one is especially interesting.
There's a new trend on the rise among gen z men.
They call themselves tread sons or hub sons. A stay
at home son who chooses to live with his parents,
(32:23):
often rent free for just basically doing you know, domestic
jobs around the house. Basically, it's like an extended adolescence.
We're going to talk with doctor Sanam Hafiz, founder and
director of Comprehend the Mind, and we will explain to
you this is really interesting. Most people of my generation,
(32:45):
they wanted to get out of the house as soon
as possible. Now, a lot of these gen z men,
anyone born after believe it's nineteen ninety.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
Six, so you have a lot of too.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I think it's nineteen ninety six up until twenty twelve.
I'm pretty sure that's gen Z. So you could have
people who are well getting into their thirties they're still
living at home and they kind of like it. Oh wow,
we'll explain. Coming back on Nightside right after the break.
Speaker 6 (33:18):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I'm delighted to be joined by doctor Sinam Hafiz, founder
and director of Comprehend the Mind.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
Welcome, doctor Hafez. How are you?
Speaker 3 (33:33):
I am well, thank you for having me on your show.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
So we're going to talk about this new trend on
the rise for gen Z men. Gen Z they were
born from nineteen ninety six on as I understand it, Am.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
I correct on that.
Speaker 10 (33:50):
I think so yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
So that means some of them now are crossing the
threshold from their late twenties into their thirties. Some of them,
I guess could still be in their early teens, because
I guess gen Z stopped and another gen of subsort
started in twenty twelve. But you got these guys who
(34:13):
don't want to move out their stay at home suns.
They're called either a traad son or a hub son.
How the hell did this trend get started? Most guys
where turre like you know, eighteen or trying to get out.
Speaker 10 (34:30):
It's a very different world. You know than the world
we knew the millennials even knew.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I think there's a lot there are a lot of.
Speaker 10 (34:37):
Things that contributed to this.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I think in no small part, the turn in the
economy the world, the excess of reliance on the digital age,
and the pandemic. Don't forget the pandemic really hit a
lot of these young people really poorly because they were
either at the sort of the crops of graduating high
school or.
Speaker 10 (34:57):
Graduating college, and so.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
They entered into a very different world than the generation's
previous to them did. And I think they also are
rejecting a lot of the traditional ideas about men and
women and their roles. You know, there are a lot
of stay at home husbands, so I think this is
just sort of like an extension of that, or even
the child wives, where like, we want to stay home
and it's and instead of rejecting that notion or feeling
(35:21):
embarrassed by being called mama's boys or used to live
at home, they're saying, yeah, but we're contributing, and you
know they're and to be honest with you, outside the
Western world, there are still cultures where this is not
that unique a concept, where men do stay at home longer,
they do take care of their parents. But in the
Western world, you know, we always see the daughters stepping
(35:43):
into those roles. So I think things are switching up
a little bit and they're sort of redefining, you know,
what masculinity or being a man means. And I think
there are ways to navigate that for both the parents
and the children, because a lot of parents are like that.
Out of my home. This is my time to you know,
in my retirement. But if they're living there and they
(36:03):
are contributing in some way, whether they're doing groceries or
you know, doing the laundry or cooking dinner, they're making
themselves useful instead of just playing video games in the
basement all day.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Well, yeah, they're playing video games in the basement all day.
I mean, they should get them out of there. I
got to tell you, it's interesting that you that you
phrase it this way. I mean the normal instinct for
I think a son or a daughter who has you know, grown.
Speaker 5 (36:31):
Up in a home.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Most people want a sense of self and they want
a sense of.
Speaker 5 (36:40):
Freedom.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Freedom. Maybe they want to you know, date people and
and find out what adult relationships are like. How do
you navigate adult relationships if you're thirty and still living
at home with mom and dad.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, I think that's that's definitely difficult.
Speaker 10 (37:01):
I think on the younger end i've heard of when
I read up on this, I think a lot of
men who are doing this are men who maybe had
a kind of a brutal breakup, or lost their job,
or went through some sort of a mental health crisis.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
And I think the majority of people who opt.
Speaker 10 (37:16):
To go home back to their parents or live with
their mom, I think usually have.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Parents who are safe and protective, because not every parent's
home is the kind of home you can come back to,
you know, so there's some level of comfort and safety.
And I think those parents are saying, well, I don't
want to reject my child if he needs this. The
world is hard.
Speaker 8 (37:37):
I want to.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Provide this comfort or this safety for him till he's
ready to go back out there.
Speaker 10 (37:42):
I think thinks I'll shifted on both ends a little bit.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, I understand that we had two children in their thirties.
They're both of our kids are married and out in
independence in their own careers, and we're happy that they're happy.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
I just wonder.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
What percentage I hate to do this to you, but
is there a percentage number here? Is this something that's
like one half of one percent? And are we making
too much of it? Are we talking about a real
trend that you know, five or six percent that maybe
could get even larger as time goes on. I hate
to ask you to quantify, but we don't script questions
(38:26):
on this program.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
No, that's okay, that's okay, that's okay. I didn't I
didn't read. I don't think there's any you know, sort
of national studit of health research out there on and
that I can vote. But I think, look, I think
there are a lot of kids who've moved back home
with their parents women. I think that listen, this is
a much longer conversation that I don't think we could
cover in intent fifteen minutes on the radio. I think
there's there are a lot of shifts that are happening simultaneously.
(38:49):
I think women are a bit more ambitious. Women are
beginning to make more money graduating college than their male
counterparts are. And I think men are beginning to struggle.
Speaker 10 (38:59):
A little bit.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
And this is why so many men identified with you know,
the people like Charlie Karr, because they were speaking to
a certain population out there. You know, for good reason.
Speaker 10 (39:08):
These men were struggling to find their footing in the
real world.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
And I think there is some people as always go
a little bit, you know, leaning a little bit too much.
Speaker 10 (39:17):
On one end of the spectrum.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
I do think that anyone whose son moves in indefinitely
should be concerned, because that's not good for anyone. I
want to get back on my feet.
Speaker 10 (39:30):
I just need to reset. Maybe I'll take some classes
online classes. But in the meantime, you know, let's say
mom or dad, someone's going through a rough patch. They
need doctor's appointment. So you know, someone's working too much,
and you're like, look, I'll clean the house.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
I'll you know, I won't. I'll earn my keep.
Speaker 10 (39:45):
I think within certain parameters, I think it's okay. I
think mental health to figure into it. I think the
expensive lifestyle or and you know you said something about
you know, kids wanting to leave the home. It's also
taking the stigma off of it. And the reason we're
hearing about this more to your question about you know,
(40:06):
what's the number, it's because most people are coming out
and talking about it on social media and almost not
like bragging about it, but kind of finding their niche
and saying, well, we're going to we know what to
call this now instead of a bummy son who lives
in his bomb's.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
Yeah, so let me ask you this question.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Okay, there has been a trend in this society. Everybody
gets a trophy. You go to college, and if you
don't like what the professor says, you look for a
comfort animal, or you look for a blanket and a
safe space.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
You know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
You know, the greatest generation eighteen year old kids were
hitting the beaches at Normandy at the age of eighteen,
and we have a generation now where some kids are
going home to mom and dad. Is that? Is that
generally healthy and that I'll ask you for a thirty second.
That's a pretty deep question, but I'd ask you maybe
if you give me a quick wrap on it. I
just it strikes me that something we're wrong here.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Listen, I get it.
Speaker 10 (41:03):
I get it. I come from a generation where my
dad was the breadwinner and the family right. And I
have two young sons, have ten year old boys, and
so I kind of feel sandwiched and squished between the
two types of men.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
I think a lot of men in the older times
felt a tremendous amount of sensive responsibility. They dealt with
mental health.
Speaker 10 (41:21):
Issues, they cope by excessively using alcohol.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
So it's not like it was.
Speaker 10 (41:25):
Always easy for them, I think. But the idea, but
the idea of masculinity has been challenged, and the generation
in between, I think is struggling with the footing where
the younger generation is saying.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
We're not going to fight it so much. I'm gonna
if I have parents who can support me, you know, I'm.
Speaker 10 (41:41):
Going to take this route because it seems easier.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Is there a little bit of enabling? Yes?
Speaker 10 (41:46):
Is that a little bit concerning because traditionally, whether you
like it or not, the idea of the hunter gatherer,
that's evolutionary, right, and men being providers are more attractive
to not just the female counterparts, but necess for families.
Speaker 7 (42:02):
To go on.
Speaker 10 (42:02):
Again, you also have women who are hunting and gathering.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah, well, which is all fine, But it just seems
to me that if the eighteen year olds eight of
nineteen forty four, if there weren't enough eighteen year olds
to hit the beach at Normandy, would all be speaking German.
I just think that they called it the Greatest Generation
for a reason. At least that's what Brocas said. If
doctor very much appreciate the conversation, we should do a
(42:28):
longer hour maybe and take phone calls from listeners. And
you know, I'm not trying to be critical. I'm just
trying to ask challenging questions and I.
Speaker 5 (42:36):
Hope you appreciate.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
Oh no, but these conversations are important for that reason.
You know, we need to have these conversations and bridge
the gap.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Sounds great, sounds great, doctor Sanam Hafiz, founder and director
of Comprehend the Mind. I'm going to ask my producer
to see if we can set up an hour some
night where we can take callers as well, because I
want to get a broader set of.
Speaker 5 (43:00):
Viewpoints, just not my viewpoints here. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Very discussion. It's a very nuanced discussion, and we should
have a bigger conversation.
Speaker 7 (43:07):
I'd love that.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Thank you so much, doctor, appreciate it, Doctor Saddam Hafiz.
We'll be back on night's side right after the nine
o'clock news, and we will open up a conversation about
the MBTA's looming budget crisis.
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Speaker 4 (00:51):
All right time now for sports of Patriots gearing up
for the AFC Championship game against the Broncos. They traveled
to Denver on Saturday. Kickoff is set for three o'clock
on Sunday, and the only Boston team in action tonight
is the Celtics, who are in Detroit to face the Pistons.
That game just getting underway. Now you're listening to WBZ
(01:13):
News Radio Boston. I'm Sherry Small. Now Tonight's side with you.
Speaker 6 (01:18):
It's nice eyes, Dan Ray, I'm going easy Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Thank you very much, Sherry Small. As both Sherry Small,
Rob Brooks and I work the Martin Luther King Holiday,
first of all, great day in America to celebrate, to
celebrate the life and legacy of a great man, doctor
Martin Luther King. I chose to work today as I
(01:45):
often work holidays, because frankly, I enjoy working holidays, and
I hope you enjoy having a live talk show.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
To listen to.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Before we get to our four guest this hour, just
a quick reminder that we will announce the winner, of course,
the as everyone most people thought the Patriots won yesterday,
and we have a winner. We have a winner from
our predict the final score, and we will announce that winner,
(02:14):
who should be no stranger to most of you. Always
great when it is a nightside listener and nightside caller
that wins, uh, and we will award the prize a
nightside coffee mug right after nine o'clock tonight. Anyway, my
name's Dan right, I am live right now. This is
and you can prove it by the way after nine
(02:35):
o'clock joining us by calling at six, one, seven, two, five,
four to ten thirty or six one, seven, nine three
one ten thirty. We're going to talk at that time
with Brian Kane, the executive director of the MBTA Advisory Board.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
That was a very interesting article in.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
The Boston Globe on Friday which talks about a real
financial crisis. The teas spent their entire existence in financial crisis.
But Brian, Brian Kane, the executive director of the MBTA
Advisory Board, will break it down for us and then
we're going to talk at ten o'clock. You know, it's
tough to get a doctor these days, and there was
(03:12):
an editorial in the Boston Globe today which caught my
attention by Shirah Schoenberg, which mentioned an old friend, doctor
Jeff Gold, who is a direct primary care physician. And
we will explain the difference. And for those of you
who have trouble finding doctors in Massachusetts, which is a
common problem in this great medical state, will help you
(03:35):
out tonight beginning at ten o'clock. But first we have
four excellent guests, and what better way to start off
MLK Day than to speak with Ryan Hendrickson. He is
the assistant director of manuscripts at the Howard Gottlieb Archival
Research Center at Boston University. Doctor King secured his PhD
(03:57):
in theology at Boston University in Boston University in nineteen
fifty five and has donated his papers to the university.
And I am delighted to welcome Ryan Hendrickson to Nightside. Ryan,
Welcome to Nightside.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
How are you, sir?
Speaker 7 (04:13):
I'm great, Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I am a graduate of the Law School at Boston University,
which you may or may not know, and I don't
know the papers which are nearly as important as doctor
Martin Luther King. But his papers can be seen by students.
But this collection is also open by appointment to the
(04:37):
general public, which I think is really interesting.
Speaker 7 (04:40):
Tell us about that, sure well, doctor King. After he graduated, obviously,
he went on to do many great things, and in
nineteen sixty four he was actually the first person to
donate their papers to what was becoming the Special Collections
Department at Boston University, So he was really the first
collection papers that existed at the school at all. And yeah,
(05:04):
they've been open to the public ever since then. Normally
people can contact us. They can email us at archives
at BU dot e DU. We're only open certain days
of the week and certain times, obviously, but yeah, the
papers are there for people to come and look through
and gain inspiration from.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Now.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Howard Gottlieb,
for whom the Archival Research Center was named, was a
long time librarian archivist at Boston University.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
Correct.
Speaker 7 (05:34):
Well, he actually was recruited there from Yale and recruited
to there from Yale, and yeah, well he actually started
writer again around nineteen sixty four sixty five. Yeah, he
and I actually worked with him for a few years
when I started. I started there in two thousand and
he passed away in two thousand and five, so there
was a few years there where we actually overlapped. But yeah,
(05:55):
he really was the founding director and really the cornerstone
of the entire center.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah. I had interviewed him at different times as a
television reporter, and also I was a lost student there.
I graduated in the mid nineteen seventies from Boston University
Law School, and so I knew of him, and I
was reminded today when I did my research on this
story that the Archival Research center was named in his honor,
a very appropriate honor. Tell us a little bit of
(06:24):
about the King selection, the doctor Martin Luther King Collection.
I guess it's a wide variety of writings and letters,
but there's also some other more personal items, including I
believe his diploma from the theology school.
Speaker 7 (06:48):
That's right.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (06:49):
It actually starts chronologically with items from when he was
a student at Morehouse College, so it really goes back
to the late nineteen forties, and then we have all
of the materials from when he was the student that
be you the papers he wrote, his his blue exam books,
if you remember those, his notebook.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
I'd rather forget those if you want to make.
Speaker 7 (07:11):
Yeah, but when you can, if you want to see
the grade he got in the comments from his professors,
he was somebody who he was. Yeah, he was very
a very diligent student, apparently, And we have all of
his old syllabi and all of that, and then it
really it keeps going after that into his his work
at in Montgomery, Alabama, and then the beginnings of the
(07:31):
Montgomery bus boycott, which was obviously a very important you know,
and the event in civil rights history, and then his
other manuscripts were like his his memoirs Dried towards Freedom,
and then his other essays and sermons and speeches, and
then a lot of the material is letters to him
from people all around the world in the United States
but also all around the globe actually who writing into
(07:55):
support him and wanting to meet with him and talked
about him and get his responses to the issues that
he was dealing with. So a big chunk of the
collection is actually things that he collected and sort of
he and his various secretaries from his offices that they
wanted to preserve for future generations who wanted to learn
about the movement.
Speaker 8 (08:14):
So they knew as.
Speaker 7 (08:15):
It was going on that this was very historic, and
so they tried to preserve a lot of these things.
And then the last material we have it really goes
up from him to about nineteen sixty five, and it
kind of cuts off right before the march on Washington.
So then there's a whole other collection that's in Atlanta
at Morehouse College that has that later material. So we
(08:35):
have the sort of the first part and they have
the later part there.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Just amazing, I assume, as they say, has to be
the most honest guy in the world to allow his
blue books, his blue test books. I've I've what did
he He must have kept them? I burned mine. Holy kidding.
Speaker 8 (09:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (09:01):
So one thing it's funny at what that you learn
when you look at the papers is when he came
to Boston, he wanted to be he wanted to probably
be following his father's footsteps and be a preacher. But
he also I think had a certain dream of being
an academic. So he studied systematic theology, which is which
is a very kind of philosophical, abstract branch of theology.
(09:23):
And I think an early point in his his studies,
I think he thought of himself as like, yes, this
is this is my path. And then the funny thing
is there were a lot of professors at the you
that were actually sort of older, you know, had participated
in the civil rights movement back in the twenties and
thirties and forties, and they talked to him about other,
(09:44):
you know, possibilities that you know, things that he could do,
maybe he could be a little more more engaged with
some social issues the time. And then also I think
living in Boston, you know, he lived at the corner
of Mass Ave in Columbus h and there was a
there was a real thriving black life being going on
in Boston at that time that he wanted to be
(10:04):
a part of as well. And from someone who came,
you know, from the South, I think it was it
was very engaging with him. I think he it really
opened his eyes to a whole other life that he
hadn't really participated in before. So he really changed a
lot during the just the very short four years that
he was in Boston. He left as a very different
person than when he came.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
One other question, obviously, he was, sadly was the was
the target of a lot of hatred, particularly as he
became better known.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
Is is any of the.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Hate mail that he and his family was subjected to.
Are they part of the archives at all? Or No?
Speaker 7 (10:47):
He did save some, Yeah, and you can, and they
would label it, actually his secretary would label you know,
they would put the word hate on top.
Speaker 9 (10:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (10:54):
And then there were other letters that they would write
love or the fan letters, and another they would write
strange if just they didn't know what to make of them.
But yeah, if you if you really wanted to see
the kind of things that they thought were worth saving,
they would save them, and I think in some cases
it was because he had been attacked during his book tour,
first Drive Towards Freedom and Women had actually come up
(11:16):
and stabbed him very very almost very close to killing him,
and he actually talked about it in his very last
speech he ever gave h you if you watch that speech,
he actually goes into detail about that encounter. But I
think after that the decision was, well, if something like
this happens again, we want to have some kind of
a trail or evidence of CIS as somebody who had
been planning something. It's not a lot, but but it is.
(11:40):
It is interesting and sometimes students are surprised that that
he would have retained them. And my response is that, well,
you know, if you're if you're thinking of keeping these
things for posterity, you don't want to edit them out.
You want to keep them for other people to see.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So so what is the easiest way. Students must know
their way If there are people on our audience some
day or some day you know soon or some day
in the future, I would like to view some of
the archives. Did they just contact the Gottlieb Archival Research
Center at Boston University and set up a time and
(12:15):
an appointment and explain what they're what their purpose is.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
I assume.
Speaker 7 (12:20):
Yeah, there's a couple of ways to look at the
papers there if you just want to sort of get
a sense of what's in there. We actually do have
a permanent exhibit that's up right now that that's always
up in the library. So if the library is open,
this is a Newgard Memorial Library. If the library's open,
that that room is open. So you will have to
sort of check in at the front desk and say
(12:42):
I'd like to go see the you know, the kingroom
on the third floor. Sure, Uh, go up there, and
you can see examples from all different aspects of taking
you know, samples from the papers. You can see his
student work. You can see the Montgomery Buss book out.
You can see the work he did with the Freedom
rides and Snick and his trips to India and Africa,
(13:02):
and letters from friends of his that he had at
Boston as well.
Speaker 10 (13:07):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (13:07):
And if if you actually have you know, research questions,
if you if you want to dig in deeper, that's
what you could you could email us and then we
could you know, we can work and work out the
time and how to help you out, Ryan.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I appreciate all the information. Great to be in touch,
Ryan Handrick send the assistant director from Manuscripts at the
Howard Gottlieb Archival Research Center at Boston University, which is
inside the Mugar Library.
Speaker 5 (13:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Thank you for tonight. You're a great guest and a
great interview. I appreciate the opportunity, particularly on this MLK day.
Speaker 9 (13:40):
Great.
Speaker 7 (13:40):
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
You very welcome.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
When we get back, we're going to talk about some controversy,
but maybe less controversy then we realize our FK Junior,
Robert F. Kennedy, Junr. Has has had an impact on
the food pyramid. We're going to talk with a cardio
all just and director of the Food is Medicine Institute
(14:02):
at Tough's University. I think we might be surprised with
what doctor dush Mussafarin has to say about Kennedy on
the whole question of whole milk versus what was thought
to be more healthy milk. We'll explain coming up right
(14:23):
after the break.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
It's Night Side with Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
My guess is doctor dush Mozafarian, doctor Mosafarian. Welcome to nightside.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
How are you.
Speaker 8 (14:37):
I'm doing well, Nice to be here.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Lovely to have you here.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
You're a cardiologist and director of the Food is Medicine
Institute at Tough's University. And all of a sudden, uh,
many people I think are taking a second look at
what Robert F. Kennedy Junior has said about low fat
milk milk versus whole milk.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
He Uh, there's a real split in the ranks. Here.
Tell us about it.
Speaker 8 (15:03):
Well, you know, the dietary guidelines just came out there,
the Nations and Nutrition Playbook, revised every five years, and
they're they're of course important for giving general guidance to
the public, but most people don't have helped with bet
standards for school meals, for daycare. They shape military rations
and federal cafeterias, and influence how companies formulate and market food.
(15:23):
So they're they're really important, and there's many changes. One'm
happy to talk about them. The one that you mentioned
I think is actually long overdue. As a cardiologist who
studies dietary fat, you know, the guidelines say you can
include whole fat dairy with with no added sugar, and
that is a positive change, you know, taking us away
from all this flavored, sugar sweetened, you know, non fat
(15:46):
dairy that that have really you know, loaded up our
refrigerators and school school meal trays for decades.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So, given a choice, I used to be a whole
milk guy, and I was influenced by everything that I read,
and I became a two percent milk guy. And then
I said, if I'm going to be two percent, why
not be one percent? So I'm a one percent milk guy.
And then it tastes the same to me. Am I
making a mistake by not having whole milk in our refrigerator?
Speaker 8 (16:16):
Yeah? So I think what we can say convincingly is that,
you know, low fat's not better than whole fat, but well,
it's also not necessarily worse. And so I think right now,
if you're happy with the fat content of your yogurt
or your cheese or your milk, you know, stick with it,
no problem. But if you prefer hole or you want
to switch the whole, there's no evidence that that's worse
(16:36):
for you. And there's maybe some evidence, early evidence that
it could be better, but not enough that I would
tell everybody to switch. But maybe most importantly, if you're
having a sweetened yogurt or chocolate milk, or you know,
other things, because dairy just doesn't taste good for you, you know,
then that might be a great opportunity to switch the
whole fat yogurt, add some berries or nuts, and get
(16:57):
away from the sweet stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Okay, well you've nailed me there, because I do like
a chocolate milk, but I will take that into consideration.
I know that you were quoted prominently in this New
York Times article from November by Caroline Hopkins' legacy. And
what I don't understand is these studies are done. There
(17:21):
was one study from Norway which found one thing, a
study from October at seventy four thousand adults in Norway
found one thing, and then a study in this country
found a different conclusions.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
That's what.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Is so confusing to us, the consumers. I mean, for
a long time, Robert F. Kennedy Junior was the butt
of a lot of jokes. And the more I read
about him now I'm beginning to wonder that, hey, this
guy has has had some interesting points, not without controversy.
And I don't want you to endorse anybody here, but
he was not what he was presented to be. He
(18:02):
was sort of, I mean, made a caricature of by
a lot, And it sounds to me like this guy's
actually at least has some thoughts and has been thinking
about these issues.
Speaker 8 (18:13):
Oh well, you know, I don't I don't agree with
all of his positions on offtism or vaccines or but
you know, for food, he's mostly got it right, mostly
got it right, and he's attacking you know, well entrenched
industry interests that have that have dominated kind of dietary
guidelines for decades. And this is quite interesting. Republicans, Democrats,
(18:35):
you know, Democratic States, people in Congress, everyone saying, hey,
you know, Secretary sticks to food, and we're happy because
he really does have it mostly right.
Speaker 10 (18:44):
You know.
Speaker 8 (18:44):
Beyond the dairy, the biggest single change in dietary guidelines
is really refreshingly plain spoken, limit or avoid highly processed
packaged foods, ready to eat food sugary drinks, refined carbohydrates,
food with foods with additives and preservatives. That hasn't been
a major message in the guidelines. In fact, the guidelines
have actually done the opposite. They've said, you know, there's
(19:07):
no bad foods as long as you hit your nutrient targets.
Anything can fit into a balanced pattern. And that's really
an industry promoted message, right that eat everything in moderation,
And this guideline says, no, don't eat everything in moderation.
There's a lot of bad food out there, and eat
real food. And I think that's actually the most single
most important advance in these actual guidelines.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
So things like, for example, soups, which we had always
been told, oh, soups are great, you know, bowl of soup, whatever,
But now the salt content worries me about soups, and
all of a sudden, I'm thinking about salt contents with
even you know, sort of high end soups, even like
a progresso soup, which is a little more expensive and
you would think.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Is a little better.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
It just is amazing to me that these that I
guess the food industry has such a financial influence here
that not only they contribute to politicians, but I guess
they participate in these studies and they they are able
to have these studies come to conclusions which are beneficial
of them. It sounds to me like it's, uh, we
(20:12):
got to take everything pardon the pun here with a
huge grain of salt.
Speaker 8 (20:18):
Well, the simplest approach to a healthy diet is to
you know, buy ingredients and cook or assemble the food yourself.
That's obviously that's straightforward approach. But you know, whole grains,
nuts and seeds, you know, dairy, chicken, poultry, eggs, that's
that's hard for folks because people are busy and they
need to grab something, they need something prepared, and so
then it gets complicated. And that's where you know, we
(20:40):
really need, you know, policy change so that people don't
have to go and navigate and figure out what's what's
what's good or bad? I think for now, while we're
waiting for policy change to hopefully stimulate better food through
our federal food programs and healthcare dollars and all kinds
of levers we have, you're right, you know, you have
to look at the label and start to pay attention.
And what's interesting is there has been a sea change
(21:01):
of interest. Five years ago, maybe ten or twenty percent
of Americans would look at labels. Now it's sixty or
seventy percent. And so like you, they're turning the package
over and saying, wow, you know this has five hundred
milligrams of sodium or three hundred and fifty milligrams of
sodium instead of fifty, which is probably what I should have.
Maybe I should, you know, take a second look.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I got to tell you I am a label looker.
I've only become home one later in my life here,
but I used to be a pepsi drinker until one
day I looked at the label and I said, forty
one carbs for every can of pepsi.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
You know. Now it's like diet pepsi for me, and
it really helped me lose weight as well as being
on a great diet program called Awake in one eighties.
So yeah, I'm fascinated by this, and I really appreciate
you you've described You've described it to us very clearly,
which I really do appreciate. I'd love to get you
back periodically as some of these stories unfold. I really
(22:01):
enjoy chatting with you.
Speaker 8 (22:03):
Happy to be on Keep up the healthy diet. It's
the single most important thing you can do for the
healthy long life.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Doctor Darius Mussafran Safarian excuse me, cardiologist and director of
Food is Medicine Institute at Toughs University. Thank you so much,
Doctor appreciated your ton. When we get back right after
the newscast, we're going to talk about a very interesting farm,
(22:30):
not a farm per se, although it is a farm,
but it helps people get through addiction treatments. Sean Hayden,
President and CEO of the Gardener Atholl Area Mental Health Association,
will join us. This is a great story. We'll be
back right after the news at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
With Dany. I'm Boston's News Radio.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
Thanks Erry.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
The interesting therapeutic communities is growing across the United States,
and there's as a matter of fact, speaking of the
Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, as we
did last segment about the food Pyramid, he's encouraging the
creation of more what are called healing farms across the
country for people struggling struggling with substance abuse. With us
(23:24):
is Sean Hayden. Sean is the president and CEO of
the Gardner Atholl Area Mental Health Association. It's an addiction
treatment farm. Kind of happened by accident, but it's doing
great work up there in north central Massachusetts. Delighted to
welcome Sean Hayden to Night's Side. Sean. You started with
(23:44):
two goats and a pony, and you have really really
provided a service to a lot of people and also
increased the animal population in the farm.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
How are you this evening?
Speaker 6 (23:57):
Very well?
Speaker 5 (23:57):
Did?
Speaker 9 (23:57):
Thank you so much for having me on my pleasure.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
You're really doing God's work here.
Speaker 9 (24:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
You bought the farm. You weren't looking to start an
addiction treatment centers.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
I understand it.
Speaker 9 (24:09):
No, we really weren't. You know, our organization has been
providing substance use treatment since nineteen seventy two, and we
have a really robust aftercare housing program for our kind
of more traditional recovery programs, and we were looking to
add another house to that program. And you know what
we were looking for is a house that kind of
checked the boxes for us, which is, I had to
have a bunch of bedrooms, a bunch of bathrooms, a
(24:30):
lot of space for kind of congregate living. And we
finally found a house. It just happened to be sitting
on a at that time a forty acre farm, and
you know, we reached an agreement with the owner to
lease the house and he said, well, I don't know
what I'm going to do with these you know, a couple
of goats and a pony. Can they just stay here?
And we kind of just said sure because we really
needed the house. And what happened was, you know, we said, okay, guys,
(24:53):
you know you're going to live here, can you help
us care for these animals? And very quickly we started
to notice that the people who took an interest in
animals other things are happening in their lives that we
didn't expect. They were staying longer, they're having better outcomes,
and kind of let us down this path of discovery
to say, you know, is there anyone else using farms
is kind of a unique environment to serve people in recovery.
(25:14):
And you know, we found that this whole idea of
care farming had existed for hundreds of years and been
used for all kinds of populations, primarily psychiatric, you know, populations,
people with developmental disabilities. But we couldn't find any other
farms that really specializing in serving people in recovery. But we,
you know, we decided to give it a go, and
it's just taken off like gangbusters.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
So when did you buy When did you buy the farm?
Speaker 5 (25:39):
How long? How long have they been running?
Speaker 6 (25:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (25:43):
Yeah, We started out in twenty eighteen at that site
I just described, and then in twenty twenty, you know,
we couldn't really arrive on a on a sustainable payment
model because our organization really serves people low and no income,
so everything we do comes at no cost to the
care to the people we so and that original model
was kind of a pilot. There was no you know,
(26:04):
insurance reimbursement model or anything like that, so we tried
to do like a low cost private pay model, but
it just didn't work well for the people we serve.
And then in twenty twenty, we're actually getting ready to
shut down the program. It was incredibly successful clinically, but
it was just not sustainable as a nonprofit organization. Our
board kind of said, you know, we can't just supplement
and you know, feed money into this program. We lost
(26:26):
like a half a million dollars over a couple of years.
And then a new property came on the market not
too far away, and we found a path where we
could actually this new site was more conducive to a
to be able to do a license treatment center there,
and we were able to do that, and now the
people who attend to our new location that opened in
twenty twenty. They're actually it's an in network benefit on
(26:46):
their mass health benefits.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
So let me ask you which I don't understand. I'm
sure you can explain to me. You were doing good
work for people who needed help, and there was no
financial support from either the state or the FAS for
a program that you guys were doing great work and
helping people. I mean, where the hell's a our tax
money going if it's not programs like yours.
Speaker 9 (27:09):
Well, the issue we had was that that first farm
was a very old one hundred and fifty year old,
you know, classic New England farmhouse, but it lacked all
the kind of the key qualities you need to be
licensed as treatment center. So it didn't have you know,
fire sprinklers, it wasn't eightya accessible, it didn't have all
those things that are requirements to be able to seek
reimbursement from Medicaid for that. So the new site allowed
us to do that, which really.
Speaker 8 (27:29):
Changed the game.
Speaker 9 (27:29):
So now people will come to us, you know, they
can come to us regardless if they have any income,
no income, and it's really really changed the dynamic.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
It seems to me that the government, instead of knocking
you up. And again, I'm always very skeptical of government
as opposed to coming in and telling you reasons why
they can't support you. They should have commem in and said, look,
we have some programs which will make this ada accessible.
We will make sure that this fire sprinkles here, will
help you bring this up, this building up to date.
(27:59):
So you kent try people as opposed to tell you
know what was it? Robert Kennedy said, some men see
the things the way things are and ask why. Other
see the way things are and ask why not. I'm
one of those who asked why not. Why would the
government not come in and say we could make this
work in conjunction? You would just infuriates me, to be
(28:20):
honest with you.
Speaker 9 (28:21):
Sean, Yeah, well I think I think like you do, Dan,
because when we first got the new site, we went
to get it credentialed as a state license treatment center.
I actually didn't tell them ahead of time that they
were coming to a farm. I looked at their their
licensing rubric and I said, okay, these are all the
checkboxes I have to meet. And they showed up and
they're like, where are we what are we doing here?
And I said, pull out your checklist, we can make
(28:41):
this work. And sure enough, you know, we had met
all the specifications that were required. What they the regulations
didn't say it couldn't be a farm, you know. And
I'm a person of recovery. I always joked like I
was using my old skills to UH for something good
this time.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Well yeah, no, I mean, I guess you're you're bad experience.
But I that's one of Kennedy's quotes that I really like,
because the government should be looking at situations like that
and say, and not you know, asking well, why do
you want us to do this? Why shouldn't they do it?
It's as simple as that. So you're successful. How are
there the patients, the customers? I don't know what your
(29:19):
character the guests, I don't know what phraseology you use.
How are the folks who you're treating, How are they doing?
Speaker 9 (29:26):
They're doing fantastic. I mean, we've had remarkable success. And
I think the reason is, you know, the wait list
that we'll never see the end of. And I think
what we offer people is the treatment system. You know, locally, nationally,
it's very homogeneous. So you go to these treatment centers
and they look very very similar everywhere you go, and
when you think about how they're structured, they look very
(29:47):
much like almost like a high school environment and schedule.
And when you talk to the people we serve, you say,
tell me what your school experience was like, the vast
majority will tell you they didn't have a positive school experience.
So what we do is we rap clinical care around
a unique learning environment and healing environment, and they'll behold.
People come and they don't want to leave.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
So how can people get in touch with you if
they feel they need some help and if this sounds
like a program that they would that they would prosper in,
or how can people who have friends who need some
help get in contact with you? Do you have a
big long waiting list?
Speaker 10 (30:25):
You know?
Speaker 9 (30:26):
You know, yeah, we do run a waiting list. But
I always tell people don't never let a waiting list,
you know, scare you off from putting in a referral,
because the thing that happens is when a bet opens,
we go to that waiting list and the people many
times on that waiting list have moved on to a
different program. So I always encourage people to put a
referral in, and they can do that by calling the
farm directly. It's nine to seven eight eight three zero farm.
(30:47):
Is the phone number they can call, or they can
go right to our parent company, Gamma's website. It's www
dot g a a MHA dot org and there's tons
of information about the program and all of our programs
really and how to get in touch and learn more.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
There, give me their phone number one more time. It's
nine seven eight eight three three farm.
Speaker 9 (31:08):
Is that it ninety seven eight eight three zero farm.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Free zero farm good? Okay, thank you for that correction.
Nine seven eight eight three zero farm. No cost associated directly.
But obviously if someone has insurance that helps the program
as well.
Speaker 9 (31:24):
Yeah, the only insurance plan we take is for people
on Mass Health. If someone is on commercial insurance, we
actually have a contract with the Department of Public Health
Bureau of Substance Addiction Services, we're able to take people
no insurance, people on commercial plans. So anyone who needs
the program and is a fit's the clinical criteria for admission,
we can take care of them.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Sounds great. And when you say they have health insurance,
it could be Blue Cross, Blue Shield or something like
that as well.
Speaker 6 (31:49):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
Some of the big one.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
It's Okay, great, Sean, I appreciate you guys are doing
great work out there.
Speaker 5 (31:55):
Keep on keeping on.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I appreciate your time tonight, Thank you so much.
Speaker 9 (31:58):
Dan appreciate having me on.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
Absolutely my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Where we get back, this is pretty interesting, Okay, this one, well,
they're all interesting tonight, but this one is especially interesting.
There's a new trend on the rise among gen z men.
They call themselves tread sons or hub sons. A stay
at home son who chooses to live with his parents,
(32:23):
often rent free for just basically doing you know, domestic
jobs around the house. Basically, it's like an extended adolescence.
We're going to talk with doctor Sanam Hafiz, founder and
director of Comprehend the Mind, and we will explain to
you this is really interesting. Most people of my generation,
(32:45):
they wanted to get out of the house as soon
as possible. Now, a lot of these gen z men,
anyone born after believe it's nineteen ninety.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
Six, so you have a lot of too.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I think it's nineteen ninety six up until twenty twelve.
I'm pretty sure that's gen Z. So you could have
people who are well getting into their thirties they're still
living at home and they kind of like it. Oh wow,
we'll explain. Coming back on Nightside right after the break.
Speaker 6 (33:18):
You're on night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z,
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
I'm delighted to be joined by doctor Sinam Hafiz, founder
and director of Comprehend the Mind.
Speaker 5 (33:30):
Welcome, doctor Hafez. How are you?
Speaker 3 (33:33):
I am well, thank you for having me on your show.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
So we're going to talk about this new trend on
the rise for gen Z men. Gen Z they were
born from nineteen ninety six on as I understand it, Am.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
I correct on that.
Speaker 10 (33:50):
I think so yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
So that means some of them now are crossing the
threshold from their late twenties into their thirties. Some of them,
I guess could still be in their early teens, because
I guess gen Z stopped and another gen of subsort
started in twenty twelve. But you got these guys who
(34:13):
don't want to move out their stay at home suns.
They're called either a traad son or a hub son.
How the hell did this trend get started? Most guys
where turre like you know, eighteen or trying to get out.
Speaker 10 (34:30):
It's a very different world. You know than the world
we knew the millennials even knew.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I think there's a lot there are a lot of.
Speaker 10 (34:37):
Things that contributed to this.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
I think in no small part, the turn in the
economy the world, the excess of reliance on the digital age,
and the pandemic. Don't forget the pandemic really hit a
lot of these young people really poorly because they were
either at the sort of the crops of graduating high
school or.
Speaker 10 (34:57):
Graduating college, and so.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
They entered into a very different world than the generation's
previous to them did. And I think they also are
rejecting a lot of the traditional ideas about men and
women and their roles. You know, there are a lot
of stay at home husbands, so I think this is
just sort of like an extension of that, or even
the child wives, where like, we want to stay home
and it's and instead of rejecting that notion or feeling
(35:21):
embarrassed by being called mama's boys or used to live
at home, they're saying, yeah, but we're contributing, and you
know they're and to be honest with you, outside the
Western world, there are still cultures where this is not
that unique a concept, where men do stay at home longer,
they do take care of their parents. But in the
Western world, you know, we always see the daughters stepping
(35:43):
into those roles. So I think things are switching up
a little bit and they're sort of redefining, you know,
what masculinity or being a man means. And I think
there are ways to navigate that for both the parents
and the children, because a lot of parents are like that.
Out of my home. This is my time to you know,
in my retirement. But if they're living there and they
(36:03):
are contributing in some way, whether they're doing groceries or
you know, doing the laundry or cooking dinner, they're making
themselves useful instead of just playing video games in the
basement all day.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Well, yeah, they're playing video games in the basement all day.
I mean, they should get them out of there. I
got to tell you, it's interesting that you that you
phrase it this way. I mean the normal instinct for
I think a son or a daughter who has you know, grown.
Speaker 5 (36:31):
Up in a home.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Most people want a sense of self and they want
a sense of.
Speaker 5 (36:40):
Freedom.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Freedom. Maybe they want to you know, date people and
and find out what adult relationships are like. How do
you navigate adult relationships if you're thirty and still living
at home with mom and dad.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, I think that's that's definitely difficult.
Speaker 10 (37:01):
I think on the younger end i've heard of when
I read up on this, I think a lot of
men who are doing this are men who maybe had
a kind of a brutal breakup, or lost their job,
or went through some sort of a mental health crisis.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
And I think the majority of people who opt.
Speaker 10 (37:16):
To go home back to their parents or live with
their mom, I think usually have.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Parents who are safe and protective, because not every parent's
home is the kind of home you can come back to,
you know, so there's some level of comfort and safety.
And I think those parents are saying, well, I don't
want to reject my child if he needs this. The
world is hard.
Speaker 8 (37:37):
I want to.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Provide this comfort or this safety for him till he's
ready to go back out there.
Speaker 10 (37:42):
I think thinks I'll shifted on both ends a little bit.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, I understand that we had two children in their thirties.
They're both of our kids are married and out in
independence in their own careers, and we're happy that they're happy.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
I just wonder.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
What percentage I hate to do this to you, but
is there a percentage number here? Is this something that's
like one half of one percent? And are we making
too much of it? Are we talking about a real
trend that you know, five or six percent that maybe
could get even larger as time goes on. I hate
to ask you to quantify, but we don't script questions
(38:26):
on this program.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
No, that's okay, that's okay, that's okay. I didn't I
didn't read. I don't think there's any you know, sort
of national studit of health research out there on and
that I can vote. But I think, look, I think
there are a lot of kids who've moved back home
with their parents women. I think that listen, this is
a much longer conversation that I don't think we could
cover in intent fifteen minutes on the radio. I think
there's there are a lot of shifts that are happening simultaneously.
(38:49):
I think women are a bit more ambitious. Women are
beginning to make more money graduating college than their male
counterparts are. And I think men are beginning to struggle.
Speaker 10 (38:59):
A little bit.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
And this is why so many men identified with you know,
the people like Charlie Karr, because they were speaking to
a certain population out there. You know, for good reason.
Speaker 10 (39:08):
These men were struggling to find their footing in the
real world.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
And I think there is some people as always go
a little bit, you know, leaning a little bit too much.
Speaker 10 (39:17):
On one end of the spectrum.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
I do think that anyone whose son moves in indefinitely
should be concerned, because that's not good for anyone. I
want to get back on my feet.
Speaker 10 (39:30):
I just need to reset. Maybe I'll take some classes
online classes. But in the meantime, you know, let's say
mom or dad, someone's going through a rough patch. They
need doctor's appointment. So you know, someone's working too much,
and you're like, look, I'll clean the house.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
I'll you know, I won't. I'll earn my keep.
Speaker 10 (39:45):
I think within certain parameters, I think it's okay. I
think mental health to figure into it. I think the
expensive lifestyle or and you know you said something about
you know, kids wanting to leave the home. It's also
taking the stigma off of it. And the reason we're
hearing about this more to your question about you know,
(40:06):
what's the number, it's because most people are coming out
and talking about it on social media and almost not
like bragging about it, but kind of finding their niche
and saying, well, we're going to we know what to
call this now instead of a bummy son who lives
in his bomb's.
Speaker 5 (40:19):
Yeah, so let me ask you this question.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Okay, there has been a trend in this society. Everybody
gets a trophy. You go to college, and if you
don't like what the professor says, you look for a
comfort animal, or you look for a blanket and a
safe space.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
You know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
You know, the greatest generation eighteen year old kids were
hitting the beaches at Normandy at the age of eighteen,
and we have a generation now where some kids are
going home to mom and dad. Is that? Is that
generally healthy and that I'll ask you for a thirty second.
That's a pretty deep question, but I'd ask you maybe
if you give me a quick wrap on it. I
just it strikes me that something we're wrong here.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Listen, I get it.
Speaker 10 (41:03):
I get it. I come from a generation where my
dad was the breadwinner and the family right. And I
have two young sons, have ten year old boys, and
so I kind of feel sandwiched and squished between the
two types of men.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
I think a lot of men in the older times
felt a tremendous amount of sensive responsibility. They dealt with
mental health.
Speaker 10 (41:21):
Issues, they cope by excessively using alcohol.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
So it's not like it was.
Speaker 10 (41:25):
Always easy for them, I think. But the idea, but
the idea of masculinity has been challenged, and the generation
in between, I think is struggling with the footing where
the younger generation is saying.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
We're not going to fight it so much. I'm gonna
if I have parents who can support me, you know, I'm.
Speaker 10 (41:41):
Going to take this route because it seems easier.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Is there a little bit of enabling? Yes?
Speaker 10 (41:46):
Is that a little bit concerning because traditionally, whether you
like it or not, the idea of the hunter gatherer,
that's evolutionary, right, and men being providers are more attractive
to not just the female counterparts, but necess for families.
Speaker 7 (42:02):
To go on.
Speaker 10 (42:02):
Again, you also have women who are hunting and gathering.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah, well, which is all fine, But it just seems
to me that if the eighteen year olds eight of
nineteen forty four, if there weren't enough eighteen year olds
to hit the beach at Normandy, would all be speaking German.
I just think that they called it the Greatest Generation
for a reason. At least that's what Brocas said. If
doctor very much appreciate the conversation, we should do a
(42:28):
longer hour maybe and take phone calls from listeners. And
you know, I'm not trying to be critical. I'm just
trying to ask challenging questions and I.
Speaker 5 (42:36):
Hope you appreciate.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
Oh no, but these conversations are important for that reason.
You know, we need to have these conversations and bridge
the gap.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Sounds great, sounds great, doctor Sanam Hafiz, founder and director
of Comprehend the Mind. I'm going to ask my producer
to see if we can set up an hour some
night where we can take callers as well, because I
want to get a broader set of.
Speaker 5 (43:00):
Viewpoints, just not my viewpoints here. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Very discussion. It's a very nuanced discussion, and we should
have a bigger conversation.
Speaker 7 (43:07):
I'd love that.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Thank you so much, doctor, appreciate it, Doctor Saddam Hafiz.
We'll be back on night's side right after the nine
o'clock news, and we will open up a conversation about
the MBTA's looming budget crisis.
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