Full Show Podcast: 23 June 2024

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talks EDB. The only place for the big names,
the big issues, the big controversies and the big conversations.
It's all on Weekend Sport with Jason Vine on your
home of Sport News Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hello you on a good afternoon. Welcome into Sunday and
Sunday's edition of Weekend Sport on News Talks AB June
twenty three, Happy birthday to our greatest Olympic medalist, Dame
Lisa Carrington. Six medals, four of them gold. More to
come hopefully in the next few weeks. Happy Birthday Colin Montgomery,
Happy birthdays in it In Zidam and happy birthday, Happy

(00:53):
ninety second birthday to former New Zealand fast Fall of
Bob Blair part of our cricketing folklore, of course, after
the events on Christmas Eve nineteen fifty three, playing for
New Zealand against South Africa, Joe burt Here received news
his fiance had been killed in the Tonguey Wire rail disaster.
Wasn't expected to bat but when he appeared at the
crease at the fall of the ninth wicket to join

(01:15):
Bert Sutcliffe. The entire crowd stood in silence, one of
the most iconic moments in New Zealand sport. Happy ninety
second today to Bob Blair. I'm Jason Pine Show producer
Anny McDonald alongside. We're talking sport until three. Of course,
we've got our Super Rugby champions. That's gonna go over
the line. Blues hates have loved.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
To hear these words again.

Speaker 4 (01:34):
The Blues a Super Rugby champions for the first time
in twenty one years. Data marks the Chiefs send to
the final forty one.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Ten Yeah, congress to the Blues, worthy winners over the
Chiefs last night. We'll attempt to get you inside the
Blues camp after one as we can raise anybody after
what I'm sure was a big night. We'll cover it
off anyway, and Blues fans feel free to luxuriate in
this long desired Super Rugby title this afternoon. By contrast,

(02:05):
what on Earth happened on the Gold Coast? Well, what
do you say? It is a nightmare on the glitter Strip.
Gold Coast torture for Sean Johnson, Andrew Webster and the
Warriors stunned sixty six six by the Titans their equal
biggest losing margin of all time. Going to unpack this

(02:25):
this afternoon as well. I'm sure you'll have some views.
First up, though, the first All Black squad of Scott
Robertson's tenure will be named tomorrow afternoon around five thirty
thirty two names to be read out in christ Church.
Who's going to be in, Who's not going to be there?
What are the toughest calls for Scott Robertson and his
coaching staff to make former All Blacks Jeff Wilson and

(02:46):
Mike Brewer with us shortly to kick this around your
thoughts obviously, welcome to other matters around today. Our Road
to Paris feature continues after two o'clock. Another of our
great Olympians said to join us. I mentioned Dame Lisa
Carrington before on her birthday. She's the only New Zealander
who has more Olympic medals than Sir Mark Todd, five

(03:10):
including back to back golds in nineteen eighty four and
nineteen eighty eight, and all Sir Mark Todd went to
seven Olympic Games. Incredible. He's with us after two o'clock
and coaching guru Wayne Goldsmith also along this afternoon talking
about new coaches coming into established environments and the best
way to approach that specific challenge. James mcconey as well

(03:30):
in his regular slot around one forty five, but a
live sport The Super eight stage continues at the T
twenty Cricket World Cup Afghanistan against Australia underway from twelve thirty.
Will keep eyes on that for you as well. We'd
love you to get involved in the show. There are
a few ways to do that. You can give voice
to your thoughts on the phone eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
Our text number is nine two nine two Emails to

(03:53):
me Jason at newstalkzb dot co dot nz. Just coming
up eleven minutes past midday.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Analyzing every view from every angle in the sporting world
weekends for it with Jason Viney, Talk zb.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
SO At five point thirty tomorrow afternoon at the TOPAI
christ Church Convention Center, Scott Robertson will unveil his first
squad as All Blacks head coach. It'll be a thirty
two man roster to play England in two Test matches
Dunedin and then Auckland July six and thirteen, and then
Fiji in San Diego on the twentieth of July. Just
to let you know, next Saturday weekend, Sport will broadcast

(04:30):
live from inside the All Blacks camp at the New
Zealand Institute of Sport out and Upper Hut, where we'll
spend an hour with Scott Robertson from one o'clock next
Saturday as we build towards the first test matches of
his tenure. But for today, we've assembled an all star
panel to kick around the ins and outs of this
first All Black Scott squad of twenty twenty fourth sixty

(04:53):
one game All Blacks loose forward and test player in
all three loose forward positions. Mike Brewer as with us today.

Speaker 5 (05:00):
Mike, afternoon Friday, we just specy good morning.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
We were past twelve o'clock now, Mike, So yeah, I
think we can safely say good afternoon and seventy one
game All Blacks winger fifty tries in those seventy one games.

Speaker 6 (05:15):
Now.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
Skysport commentator and analyst Jeff Wilson, How doing, Jeff?

Speaker 7 (05:20):
After funny bruise up?

Speaker 5 (05:23):
How are you going?

Speaker 7 (05:24):
I'm great, Pain, I'm great.

Speaker 8 (05:25):
I've tried out.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yes, well it was certainly about wet last night. Actually,
could we start there, Jeff? Did anyone play their way
into or out of the squad in the final last night?

Speaker 7 (05:38):
I don't know they played their way until we're out
of I think what it has made is maybe some
of the conversations a little bit harder, you know, and
there'll be key positions and positions that we are I
suppose heavily blessed, particularly in the loose forwards and particularly
in the outside backs in this country where you know
there'll be some conversations around. Okay, now, how do you

(06:00):
know the old four and the three, five and six
and five, seven of the six? I just don't go.
In the end, it's going to be I think some
really good players, as we always know they're going to
miss out on this all black squad and as as
a matter of how Scott Robertson wants to play. But
last night, look, I think if you're a boys player,
it was edmontageous that you had a dominating performance and

(06:21):
you've got a chance to show everything you were capable
of at a night that wasn't very good at Eton Park.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
All right, Mike, for you, before we dig down into
some of those positional areas. How much stock do you
think Scott Robertson will put in the last three weekends
and the way certain players performed in big knockout games.

Speaker 5 (06:40):
I'm still feeling a little bit different, did you. I
think hoskinsitudo confirmed his per solection again being part of
that dominant pack. But he's done everything all year. That
consistency has been there. I've always been a big fan
of Hoskins right from the upset. I thought he's a

(07:02):
really similar player to Shannon fras Out in my mind opinion,
they didn't give through Shennon enough opportunity and enough time
when you compared to what the repectors gave a player
like a Tunga Hussy offer of Hussy the time to mature,
they didn't give it to Shennon. I think it's time
they do give it to Hoskins because we need we

(07:25):
need players with excector to get a dominant all breack
team back, and Hoskins has got except that zim Brook
type player. And if you can put Aardy Severe at
seven and Hoskins to two two or eight, and you
know there's accepting two three swords the other player. I
think his way into it, which is a probably a
boult and you might laugh. I think Sam Barry is

(07:46):
going to play his way into this back team.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, I think, yeah, I think I think you might
be right, especially with obviously white Lock and Metallic having
departed and some other issues around injury, et cetera. Just
before we come into some specifics and the Ford Pack
just on the outside backs Jeff Caleb Clark, is he
You're all out for you?

Speaker 7 (08:07):
I think he's in, but it will be at the
expense of maybe a player with some versatility. And I
was always at there when I got to the you know,
when I write down my list of players, there's probably
are you going to go with a guy who's an
out and out, which is what Caleb Parkers, or you're
going to have the likes of a David HARVELI, who
is that player who can cover so many positions that
you get the set that Scott Robertson as coaching staff

(08:30):
know and we'll see great benefit and what he can bring.
But then all of a sudden you get someone like
last night, and probably over the course of the Super
Ruggy campaign, it's been really consistent, and you know, I
think it's interesting because I already had Hoskins too to
win my squad. I think there was in no doubt
for me that he had to get the opportunity at
that at at an all black level, at least get
in front of Scott Robertson and see what he can

(08:50):
possibly do. So for Caleb, you know, I think what
he has done is I think he may have may
have confirmed the spot. But you know, I think last
night you saw if you get him involved in the
game and he involves himself in the game, how damaging
he can be. But like you say, it's it's just
a philosophy thing now with these these all black coaches,
and you know, the one thing I see, I see,

(09:11):
I'm with plenty of expector. It's funny you mentioned Sam Derry.
I had him already in the squad as well. You know,
I just think, you know, even with Patrick two A Pilota,
recovering what Darry's done in this time, this this year
and the Blues has been impressive.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, I've got Darry in there as well, with obviously
Scott Barrett, Patrick twy Polota and two poor Vis. I
had Darry is the fourth lock as well. Back to
the loose forwards, Mike your area of particular expertise. We
know you've got Hoskins tutor in their Ardie Savia as
well and position position wise we can we can kick
that around as well. But black Adder Female, you're say, Jacobson, Larkeye,

(09:45):
Papaali Sa Titi, who are you leaving in? Sorry? Who
you're putting in? Who you're leaving out?

Speaker 5 (09:53):
Ethan Blackguner. I think is a type of six that
they needed, and uncompromising six and even though he sort
of struggles with a bit of resilience, you know as
Andrew wise, I think that they'll select them. See now again,
I agree with you Dalton Paba Lee. I think sort

(10:14):
of forced his way in ahead of those younger players.
And the sixth one I've gone has Jakinson.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, well he covers all three, doesn't he, like you
used to. How valuable is that going to be? Mike
and a you know, and I guess it's a it's
a slightly smaller squad than what they've taken to the
Rugby Championship. So the ability of Jacobson to cover all
three does that kind of get him in?

Speaker 9 (10:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (10:35):
Because I think if they sort of go off Oskar
through any reason why then, and they want to play
Audi at eight, then they'll need to have you know,
Dalton and Jacobson. There's back up seven. So just about
balance things sort of. When I was going through all
the squads, all the players who's allowed to be picked,

(10:55):
he count like to w Richie Monger in there, because
I think we're pretty light and light in a couple
of positions, a lot lower than with everything. But I
think that's my.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Sixth Jeff first five. Stephen Perfetta going to make.

Speaker 7 (11:10):
This squad, Yeah, I think he should. You know, I
think it's been a really challenging year for Stephen, just
through injury and the nature of the way that Harry
Plummer took up the responsibilities at tim while he was out,
and then when they lost Sullivan, it just it meant
that the flexibility they had at fullback they needed someone.
And last night Peter Feeder was really really good. Like

(11:32):
I think you can underestimate that responsibility and conditions like
that of how you cover and manage the backfield. He
did it brilliantly. He was never caught out a position,
his hands were really solid, his kicking game was accurate.
And here's a guy I think that actually is a
very very accomplished ten when he gets to play there.
He just hasn't had a lot of time. So for me,

(11:52):
I think he's a guy we have to continue to
invest and I think there's a lot more than people
have had the opportunity to see. So I'd like to
think he's going to make that squad and like to say,
this is a really interesting squad to fact, because you know,
all of a sudden over the last couple of weeks,
some guys have been out of sight, out of mind,
and you know, how do you find a way for
some players to make a squad when they haven't been

(12:14):
put under the test and of a final or a
semi final, they've been sort of waiting in the wings. So,
like I say, a lot of this comes down to
how Scott Robinson wants to play. But I've got Peter
Fetter in there because you know, I think he's still
got so much more potential. But what we saw last
night was a really balanced and composed performance and that's
what I like about him.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
I like you both about the half backs. Let's stay
with you, Jeff, who are your three half backs?

Speaker 9 (12:39):
Look?

Speaker 7 (12:39):
I think this is you know in terms of guys
who have been consistent, They've played a lot of minutes
and you've got experience if you look at those sort
of things. The last month of finlay, Christie has been
really good since he's come back from injury. You know,
he's been as consistent as he always is, has got
better every week. It was really good again last night,
and challenging conditions, just like what he brings. We know

(12:59):
we need to have more experience in and around the squad,
and DJ Peter and Ara has done that. For the Hurricanes,
there's a couple of young guys who loading around it,
but I think the best of those is Cortezratima, you know,
but they want to have a look at him, and
you know, now there's a couple of guys and now
I hope him and Favo, who are probably you know,
I'm going to have to look at other opportunities where
they try and force their way in. But I think

(13:22):
for me that the top three have sort of cleared
themselves out and in Christie Pernara, and you've got something
to work with and a balance in the types of
game they can play, and you know, and of course
they'll be clearly waiting for the return of cam Roy
Gad whenever that might be in the future, but that
there's a long way off. So for me, those three

(13:43):
have stood out.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Do you agree with that, Mike, Those those three, I think.

Speaker 5 (13:49):
A lot of it will depend on the selector's attitude
towards age in the in the next World Cup. So
that's where you know, players like Voden Barrett, Ja Perinata
there's a question mark over them, you know, do keep
them from the experience or do they blood the young boy,

(14:09):
young young player who's going to be a good player
like Noah Houston.

Speaker 8 (14:14):
We'll go fuck it over.

Speaker 5 (14:15):
Another go up to his injuries. So that's the question
that only they know. But we just got selecting the
right execut the same team, Goldie. I actually even Teran
as my first choice fallback at the moment with all
the injuries.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
You hope you got a fullback, Godi.

Speaker 7 (14:34):
I've got answer a question your opposed because I think
everyone and even Raisers admitted this, and Lina McDonough who
spoke to him last week on the Breakdown said the
same thing. Right, they've got their team sort of selected,
ninety percent of it picks itself. It really does you
know you're only talking about sort of two or three
guys in around that third hooker, that third half back.

(14:54):
These are alvitually common conversations when it starts selecting US side. Look,
Razer at the start of the season said he's probably
got eighty percent of a team packed because that's it's
you know, there's guys who had vast experience. So the
reason I've gone around about way is I think, you know,
as long as Boden Barret's come through his game and
he comes back in the camp the way he was
playing last year with the same type of confidence, and

(15:15):
I'm comfortable this the first campaign and we want to
say first campaign. There's two Tests against England and the
third Test against veg at Boden Barret at fullback because
I thought last year, I thought he played really, really well.
As long as he's healthy and fit, you know, I think,
and I think there's still in twenty of leagues left
in him. If you watch him play, He's not the
same player he was five six years ago in terms

(15:38):
of some of that explosive stuff. But I think in
terms of his game, manage an experiment, experience and I
think under ray that I think he'll he'll understand what
it is as he's trying to achieve. So at the
moment I've got voted. But I mean, of course we're
all waiting as well. We've got another guy with the
name of Will Jordan, who you know, we're picking at
some part through the season maybe the Rugby Championship might

(15:59):
become available again. And if he does, then you know,
he's the guy that we're hoping is going to get
into that fifteen jersey because as the type of rugby
I think we would like to play.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah, and Dana Raiser obviously played him a lot there,
didn't he. Sorry, Mike, you go ahead, did you decide.

Speaker 5 (16:13):
How to Ruben?

Speaker 6 (16:16):
I've found room.

Speaker 7 (16:17):
I've found room for Reuben Love, you know, once against
a really hard decision because I know exactly what David
Harle yet he can bring, but he just he just
hasn't played enough rugby in a settled position the shetter.
But now he's coming in with some sort of confidence
because I think he is a really confidence plan. I
found it really hard to leave him out and I
wouldn't be surprised if he is there at the expense

(16:39):
of you know, maybe a Ruben Love. It's it's a
great it's a great debate. I just I came to
where Rubens ceiling could be and what he's going to
develop into. I love his confidence, you know, so I've
managed to find room for him.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Sorry, Mike, you carry on. You guys have the conversation.
I'll just sit back and listen.

Speaker 5 (16:56):
You go, Mike, any has any curtain used to say? Goldie,
he's got gas.

Speaker 7 (17:01):
He's got gas, and gas is one of those things
you've just got to have. You know, you're one hundred
percent right here?

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Hookers, who's the third howker we've got? Obviously Cody Taylor?
I think Moo has done enough. No summer Sauny Talkie
ou haul Mike. Who's the third hooker in the squad?

Speaker 5 (17:19):
I think the Blues hooker played his way in the
game last night.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Rickettelling rickattelling who else?

Speaker 5 (17:26):
Whose could you pick ahead of them?

Speaker 9 (17:28):
Nobody?

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Well, I guess the others are. You could look at
Kurt Eklund's but he's come mainly off the bench. George Bell,
I think he's got a bit of work to do. Goldie,
you go, you go with Ricottelly, Goldie?

Speaker 7 (17:39):
Yeah, I mean I think you have to, you know,
Like I mean, Bell's been certainly a guy that've had
their their eye on. But once again you saw the
market difference the moment Cody Taylor has come back into
the frame. And I agree, when you get to these
choices around this third player, you start maybe considering the future.
But you know, I think is still looking at the future.

(18:01):
I think you can feel really comfortable. Here's a guy
that can be around in the environment for a lot
period of time. So who's the third guy? Well, it's
a bit like the TJ. Piternada for me. Have a
bit of insurance up your sleep. You know, a guy
who has consistently done his job and coll role and
fundamental stuff for the Blues exceptionally well. And if you
want to, is there an X factor about Rocky Ricottelly, No,

(18:24):
there's not an ex factor, but there's a great workman, accuracy,
a determination, a fight about him that you've got love
and I like having that guy in the environment. You know,
we had it for how many years, probably the last
four or five years in Dane Cole's in terms of that,
you know what, I can trust him. You get that
sense with Ricketelly and look after I spoke up the

(18:45):
game last night. Look, he had a smile on his face.
He's had one heck of a season and he should
be really proud of you achievement and by doing what
he's done. He said, you know what, I won't let
you down.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
I love players like that, Captain, Mike, who's the captain?

Speaker 5 (19:03):
Only one choice here, I think with Scott robertson as
you go, all.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Right, so Scott Barrett for you, then same for you, Jeff.

Speaker 7 (19:12):
It's a really interesting conversation. Look, I can understand why
Scott Barrett would be the obvious choice, but I've sort
of been I've been beating the drums a little bit
around Cody Taylor. You know, I really like where he's
got his game to. I really like when he came
back to the Crusaders, he took brains and responsibilities and
showed some real scrap and fight. And but Scott Barrett start,

(19:33):
you know, as a fantastic job when he's had control
of that team down in Christ just the Crusaders on
the fantastic run of successes. But you know, that would
be the obvious. But you know, I'd like to think
Cody Taylor's in the conversation. I just I just get
the sense he's getting too that time in his career
now where you know, after he's had I Reckon a

(19:54):
fantastic return to the game, but last year was you know,
world class. So there's something about him. And but but
at the moment, you know, everyone's expecting it to be
Scott Barrett, and you know, I would maybe be surprised
if it's not.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
No chance he goes out he save Mike.

Speaker 5 (20:14):
I think you want to do it Scott Robertson way
to start off with. And I think there's always opportunity
for you know what we've seen with Scott married over
the last couple of years as he's left a little
bit of resilience, not quite as bad as.

Speaker 10 (20:27):
Me, but.

Speaker 7 (20:31):
Good, honestly, Bruiser, great, Honestly, you could have just done
with it. You could have just done with the vet.
You had a bit of bit more. I know it
was to just self preservation, you had none of that.

Speaker 5 (20:44):
No, but that's what it was about today.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Indeed, indeed, all right, I want to finish, want to
finish with with our starting fifteen for the first test
of the year, thirteen days from now. I'm not sure
there are too many contestable positions and let's but we'll
go through its on a bit by bit. Uh did
you say it again?

Speaker 8 (21:04):
You know?

Speaker 5 (21:04):
Did Goldie just run with street.

Speaker 7 (21:08):
That I run with just three centers?

Speaker 11 (21:11):
No?

Speaker 7 (21:11):
I didn't. I I was very light on wings, to
be honest with you. And that's where I think the
great thing about Rique Yuani is he's he can be.
He's probably the easiest one he can He can quite
easily slide out to plan the wing of fiel Blacks
needed to be. But you know, I think the combination
of Yowani and Barrett is as well and truly formed

(21:33):
and not in ten Anzelina Brown said one hell of
the season. It really has and he's that real viable
option and you know that the big things around you know,
I only looked at uh, Clark and Taliah and that
those three in regards to the wings that are going

(21:53):
to get their opportunity.

Speaker 8 (21:55):
So it was it was sort of a five to
four five four. No, Si, he didn't make my side,
didn't he?

Speaker 7 (22:04):
Well, I just I had to make a decision about
out and out wings. You know, that's the you know,
how many how many could you put that fitten?

Speaker 8 (22:13):
You know.

Speaker 7 (22:13):
I think the really important thing for me here is
is well that this is for the fetest three tests,
not the Ruggay Championship squad. So you know, I think
you know, Scott Robinson, Scott Room, you know, to make
some changes and shifts if you really need to be.
But that's where it got hard. Like you say, there's
some really good players who've missed out. I've got Billy
Procter in my mix. I really have had such a

(22:34):
good season at center for the Hurricane.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
Okay, yeah, I've gone I've gone four in midfield as well.

Speaker 12 (22:40):
Have you?

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Have you only gone three midfielders, Mike, No, I actually
got for heavily right, So Billy, Billy Procter's not in
your squad, President.

Speaker 5 (22:50):
I think he's going to be one of those players that,
in my daves look like Brent Pope is just so
many other good players in this position. I just think
you'll miss out.

Speaker 7 (22:59):
I think potally comes up for every selection conversations I've ever.

Speaker 9 (23:02):
Had with you.

Speaker 8 (23:05):
But anyway, yes, say you be.

Speaker 7 (23:16):
Right.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Let's get us, let's get out, let's get our fifteens.
Let's get our fifteens done. When our listeners are queuing
up to have their So so let's get our fifteens
out for the first Test against England and Dunedin front
front row, brows and what's your front row the group
Paler Lomas saying Goldie.

Speaker 7 (23:33):
Uh, Williams, Taylor Lomax.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Interesting, all right, your locks, Jeff.

Speaker 7 (23:42):
It's it's Barrett and by.

Speaker 5 (23:48):
Patrick Patrick and hit A.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, he's okay, right, loose forwards? What's your loose forward trio?

Speaker 8 (23:56):
Mike let s there and Sotutu.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
All right, So you've got Savia on the open side
for you, Jeff.

Speaker 7 (24:05):
See now on the blindside, Savilla and Papa in the open.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Okay, half back first five combo Mike.

Speaker 5 (24:15):
Philly, Christian McKinsey.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yes for me, midfield the midfield to it feels like
Barrett and Joannie have you both got that?

Speaker 5 (24:24):
Yep?

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yes, indeed, all right, Jeff back three.

Speaker 7 (24:30):
I've got Talia on the left and on the right,
and I've got Bone and Bart at fullback.

Speaker 5 (24:39):
What have you gone with, Mike, I've gone Bone that
full back to there on the right. But I'm stuck
with Silly Reese on the left.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, I've done that too. I've got I've got recent,
I've got Reese on the left wing. But Jeff hasn't
even got him in the squad.

Speaker 7 (24:55):
But I haven't got even Blacketter in the squad either. Yeah,
you know, lots of yeah. I mean it's a really
hard one. I've gone for Jacobson, uh, Female lark Eye,
Popliti and Sevillah in my loose fortraw there's no room
for for Jacobson. So you know, like I said, there's
there's you know, there's marginal cause in so many positions

(25:16):
between one or two guys. You know, all I know
is there news a side is going to be a
heic of aside when he gets an opportunity later on
the air.

Speaker 5 (25:24):
My only concerned with the boys he now is I
think he's a fantastic player, but the All Black selectors
and knowing Scotty that I think there's a real question
mark over his discipline and the amount of penalties he
gives away, and some of the penalties he's given away,
you know in this season, particularly in the in the playoffs,

(25:45):
is just allowed that aucklantem to just piggyback up the
field and do what they do. So I think that's
that's an issue that he's you know, he's going to
address because I think he's a he's a bit like
shann of Brazil but too many penalties.

Speaker 7 (26:00):
Well, the challenge you're getting on staying on the field
m hm. And you know, it's just one of those things.
I just think it's it's like I'm fascinated to see tomorrow,
I really am, you know, because we'll get a real
sense of what exactly it is he's looking for. It'll
be those four or five guys that we couldn't quite
decide on or we weren't sure about. Well, a strong

(26:22):
sense from raising tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Excellent guys, Thanks so much for joining us. Mike, always
enjoy chatting. Thanks for taking the time, mate, Jeff buy
all the best and Jeff, thanks to you.

Speaker 6 (26:35):
Mate.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
We'll look forward to live coverage of the first of
it all Black Squad five thirty tomorrow Sky Sport one
and Sky Sport Now you'll be involved in that. Thanks
for taking the time to have a chat this afternoon, mate, mate,
all the best, mate, Jeff Wilson, Mike Brewer there with
their thoughts and some fairly interesting thoughts too. You'll have
some too, No doubt your chance to play selector now

(26:56):
oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty Who makes the
thirty two man list to be revealed tomorrow. Any bolters, Well,
let's define bolt, somebody who nobody had picked, a name
we haven't even talked about. The only I think the
only position we didn't really talk about in that chat
was the props. We covered off most of the other positions.

(27:19):
For example, Billy Proctor, if he makes the squad tomorrow,
is not a bolter. I think he's been talked about
all year as somebody who who may well be there,
and I think has has deserved his place. A bolter
is a guy like Dallas McLeod. Remember when Dallas McLeod
was picked last year, he was a bolter because nobody
had him. Nobody picked him. I've written down my thirty two.

(27:41):
I've got five new all blacks. You can to hear
yours players who have caught your eyespecially especially those who
haven't worn the black jersey before. Oh, eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty nine two nine two. If you would
prefer to send a text, we're back with your calls
after this on news Talks here Big it's twenty five
to one one.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Crutch Hold Engage Weekend Sport with Jason Tame and GJ.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
Gunnerhomes New Zealand's first trust no Builder News Talk just
on twenty three to one, Glen says, I'm not a
Blues fan, but I'd love to see Harry Plumber make
it as a bolter. I think he's been epic for
the Blues this year. Can play twelve, fifteen at a
pinch and ten obviously, Glenn, Yeah, look, he would be
a bolter, Harry Plummer. No one's talked about him, and interesting,
going to go to the lines a moment. Interesting that

(28:25):
Plumber has played at teen for the Blues, ahead of Petafeta,
who will probably be picked as a teen in the
squad tomorrow. Interesting times, eh, interesting times. Let's get to
some calls to day.

Speaker 9 (28:35):
Bruce, good Jason, you're having a good day.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
I'm having a great I'm having a great day, Bruce.
I really am. A's yours going.

Speaker 9 (28:44):
Good man, Let's get into it because I'm very busy.
Twenty four to seven. Okay, where to this all black squad?
Yeah yeah, yeah, Well I've listened to all of you,
and I've been around for a day or two, a
long long time. I go back five thousand years Dartsy

(29:06):
you know who is. Yeah, that's a day or two ago.
I think that test level is far, far above super level,
and it's cost us a lot of World Cups through stupidity.

(29:27):
When we've lost in O seven O three we should
have won. Were the best sporting The All Blacks are
the best sporting team in the world of all any sport,
not just rugby. The best and we are the best,
but coaches come and go Raizor I write very very highly,

(29:53):
very highly. I would boat with Cody Taylor has captain.
You don't know who's going to get injured between now
in the game. I'd go with Radama. He's a King
Country boy, our coach down there Roller Males, thank you
up at pretty Anger with Jenny Werrit. All my three

(30:16):
sons have played rugby for King Country, you know, at
various levels, I'd go with at fullback. All World Cups
basically are won by penalty goals, not tries ever think

(30:37):
about it, so you've got to have experience. So at
fullback I would have Baiden Barrett on the wings. I'd
have tell Aa and Reece sent to no brainer. A
lot of these people I know, Ione from Auckland his

(30:57):
mother's name Shirley. She's some up north and where I
come from. God, I've been all over the world and
I've done a hell of a lot more than sharing
and out nearing and everything else. Where are we second?

Speaker 8 (31:10):
Fight?

Speaker 6 (31:11):
Cool?

Speaker 9 (31:11):
Who have they got to help me? Jason? Who's well?

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Jordy Barrett surely?

Speaker 8 (31:16):
Oh short course?

Speaker 9 (31:17):
Yeah, no brain, thank you, Jason. Nobody knows it all, honey.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
God, you're right, Bruce. I am going to have to
move on, mate, But you've gone through most of the
back line there, so I'm going to move on. Got
other calls to get to. But yeah, I've got Reese
Talaya and and I've got Ruben Lovers my fallback. That
will probably be controversial, and I'll be accused of bias,
no doubt, but I quite like the idea of Ruben

(31:43):
Love starting the first test of the year. Scott Robertson
may well go with Boden Barrett at fallback, but I
just quite like the idea of saying to Ruben Love,
here you go, mate, here's the fifteen jersey. You are
in charge of it for this first test. That's your
chance to hold on to it for a bit. Good

(32:04):
to chatty you Bruce, go well mate, Hello Dan.

Speaker 6 (32:07):
Gooday Piney, how are you very well done?

Speaker 10 (32:09):
Very well?

Speaker 6 (32:11):
Now, I just want to talk about the captaincy Piney yep.

Speaker 8 (32:15):
And my reasoning not for.

Speaker 6 (32:19):
Having Ardie Saba as captain is because in the World
Cup Final I think he blew it by not taking
a few crucial penalties and going for the corner and
that's where his decision making pot me off. And that's
why I would have Scott Barrett as captain.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
I can't remember him electing to take shots at goal
rather than kick for the corners. It was a tight
game too, damn. What was it, twelve eleven, so every
point's crucial.

Speaker 6 (32:53):
It was a tight game. And I remember once or
twice where Ardie went for the corner and he could
have taken the shot at goal and that would have
been it.

Speaker 8 (33:04):
Okay, that's the.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Only why, all right. So I mean, I look, I
think put it this way down. I think Scott Barrett
will be named as All Blacks captain tomorrow. I think
if Artie Savier was named as captain, I don't think
there'd be too many batted eyelids anywhere, or raised eyebrows
or whatever. The right phrases. I think he's a guy
who absolutely leads by his actions. Both of them are

(33:28):
absolutely rusted on starters in a team. I guess you
could argue about where Artie Savier plays. I still like
him at eight, but they may look at him at seven.
Scott Barrett is probably the best lock in the country,
so they both guarantee their place in the side. It
may just be that as a new coach, Scott Robertson
goes with what he knows, and what he knows is
Scott Baron. I guess from years and years of working

(33:50):
with him.

Speaker 6 (33:52):
Yep, that's deared right, Thank you very much, Piney.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
Dann, Thank you mate. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty is our number plenty through here on text which
I will get to after. Jason Neville says I would
have Isaya Walker Lea Weddy in the team ahead of
Sam Dowrye. He's been the backbone of the Hurricanes middle row.
He has been pincked a few times, but refs have
been always correct in their calls.

Speaker 13 (34:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
I've watched him with interest this year, you know, Neville
obviously being a Hurricanes fan, and I think he's been
very good Isaiah Walker, Leirwddy another one who hasn't been
mentioned that much in dispatches. I thought Dowry was very
good last night and probably locked himself into the into
the squad. You look at the locks who were going
around to Paul He's going to be there, Patrick two,

(34:38):
Pa Lot who is going to be there, and Scott
Barrett's going to be They're probably only room for one more.
And you look at Nita a Koy, Sam Dowry, Jamie Hannah.
Probably a bit early for him. Josh Lord hasn't played
a lot. Neither has Monarchi Selby Rick at Quentin Strange
is a guy who Scott Robertson knows well from Crusader's country.
I think it's Dowry. I think he's the one who
you can probably lock in there as the as the

(35:00):
fourth lock. Pardon the pun. What else have we got here?
Not sure if he gets talked about this year or not,
but I hope A J. Lamb gets his plaudits and
gets a black jersey at some stage. Interesting Barry says,
I can't see David HARVILLI missing out. Raiser has to
go with trusted players. Taylor Taylor Whitelock, Barrett Black, Adam Wonga, Havilli.

(35:24):
Raiser trusts Avily to never let him down. So that's
why I think he's in covers first five, second five
and fall back. Yeah so yes, so raised, I see
what you mean. The barrier Raizer went with trusted players
at the Crusaders. Yes, yeah, maybe David. I haven't got
David Heavily in my squad, but again I'm not picking it.
Twelve to forty five News Talks here be you got
a few more minutes to chat. Oh, eight hundred and

(35:46):
eighty ten eighty back after this.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
You be the TMO.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
Have yours say?

Speaker 1 (35:51):
On eight hundred and eighty ten eighty Weekend Sport with
Jason Hin and GJ. Garvnerholmes, New Zealand's most Trusted home
Builder News Talks and.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
B twelve to one talking all Blacks. We're going to
talk Blues after one o'clock as well. We can mesh
the two here if we like. Tell me you were
there last night.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
Yeah, I was there, sitting in the torrential rain. But
what an amazing Well, if you're a purist, you love
the game because the Blues just absolutely dominated them, didn't
they yes, absolutely dominated them. I think the territory was
something like seventy to thirty and when the Chiefs had

(36:29):
the ball, they just kicked it away.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
They did kick a lot, didn't they. I noticed that.
It's obviously part of the game plan. But yeah, Damian
McKenzie kicked a lot, didn't he.

Speaker 8 (36:39):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
But you know, twenty one years mate, it's been a
long time coming. And absolutely I think Auckland, the jeff Nation,
deserves some credit from the rest of the country. We've
been put through hell, We've been told that the Chiefs
are going to beat us because no one likes Auckland
for the gay New Zealand. We are the best rugby
team in the country in Super rugby right now, so

(37:01):
give myself. We're ready.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
I'm happy to send any and all plot. It's your white.
I thought that last night, and in fact, across the
season it's fifteen wins out of seventeen.

Speaker 14 (37:11):
Mate.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
You can't argue with it.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah exactly, and you know after Hurricanes are the one
who knows where they would have went. But congratulations was
totally happy. But let's get into the all Blacks. He's
talked about Sam Perry. Yeah, I field producer. I actually
picked him at the start of the year. I'm just
a fan of nobody, but I picked him because I
saw the potential he had and you know, for once

(37:34):
we finally stole the player from Canterbury because how many
or Blacks have, well, how many contemporaries a homework games
and they've made the All Blacks. So it's good to
get one over them, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Absolutely Yeah, he's a good young kid, isn't he. You know,
he has come up there, He's obviously, you know, come
under the stewardship of Vern Cotter and it's just totally
brought into what it's all about up there with a
really strong set piece and a forward dominated game. And
he's been great. He has been really, really, really good.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
Exactly. Man. I don't know if you watched the Springbok
game this morning, because they actually had a game of
its well, but it was very similar to how the
Blues plays. I think they dismantled Whales by about thirty points.
I was watching and I was singing, man, I could
have been watching the Blues last night.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Did you see the school Did you see the score
between between Japan? Eddie Jones's first game for as Japan
coach in England. Did you see the score?

Speaker 3 (38:28):
Yes, I said that Eddie's taking his form from the
one of his own. There's no surprises there, but I
don't read too much since that. I think you know,
it's it's pretty much just the priest. Well, England's going
through their phase that they did one of the six nations.
They're going to come over here pretty bat or hardened. Mate. Yeah,
but I think I think Raiser is just a cut about.

(38:51):
They might struggle in the first but then the next
one you'll come through. Say, I'm pretty confident, good man.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Tim. Hey, we'll enjoy the enjoy the rest of the
weekend and luxuriating this Blues triumph. May you deserve it?

Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah, well I have to because the Warriors got smashed
laugh night he stated it.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
They certainly did. Yeah, we'll touch on them after one
o'clock as well. Great to jet to you, Tim, Thanks mate, Right,
Andy has sent me his team. All right, what have
you gone with?

Speaker 10 (39:15):
Mate?

Speaker 2 (39:16):
De Grout Taylor Newall, So you're leaving Tyra Lomax out
for starters Dowry and Barrett, Female Blackadder, Savia pet Nada, Mackenzie,
Barrett and Joanni in midfield, Talaya, Reese and Love. Although
you've got a footnote here. If Josh Morby wasn't leaving
it have Josh Morby in there.

Speaker 15 (39:34):
Would you?

Speaker 7 (39:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 16 (39:35):
I really enjoyed watching him this year, and I mean
you're even more so Piney. He was scoring a truckload
of tries for your Hurricane.

Speaker 13 (39:42):
No.

Speaker 16 (39:42):
Yeah, I really like Josh Morby. But by nature of leaving,
I imagine they probably won't include him. No, they won't,
They won't, and he's I mean, it's a pretty stacked
look at the back. Three options depending on what you
do with Boden Barrett and Stephen Pettifetter in terms of
how you classed them. Caleb Clark, Reuben Love, at Tenny Nanai,
Satuto I Morni Nada, Severa, Ree, Shawn Stevenson, Mark Talaya.

(40:03):
There are a lot of good outside.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Backs, absolutely, and does will Jordan get healthy again as well?
Exactly another one there who's going to come back And
almost certainly you know, stay acclaim for that fullback jersey,
right because that's where Razor played him all the time
for the Crusaders. Yeah, David harvillly as well, if you
wanted to Havili. Yes, of course. Yeah, here's my fifteen
de group, Taylor Lomax two, weep a lot to Barrett,

(40:25):
that's Scott Barrett, Captain Fenale, Papa, Li, Savia, Petonata Mackenzie, Jordi, Barrett, Rico, Jowanni, Reese,
Talaya and Love. That is my fifteen don't forget. You
can watch live coverage of Scott Robertson's first ever all
Black squad announcement for the upcoming Test matches against England
and Fiji on Sky Sport One and stream on Sky
Sport Now from five thirty tomorrow. We think Jeff Wilson

(40:48):
for making himself available this afternoon seven to one. US
talks in.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
Boons from the Track, Fields and the Court on your
home of Sport Weekend Sport with Jason Vine US Talks.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
B four to one. Graham Minty mead Our chiefs Commentator
has sent through his fifteen group Taylor Lomax, vit Ye,
Scott Barrett, Fenale, Savia and Jacobson at number eight, Christian McKenzie,
Jeordie Barrett and Antonin Leonnett Brown. So Minty has dropped Rick,
Are you Wani Sevu Reese Mark Dealaya and in Morni
Nudawa at fallback. A bit of a chief's bias. They're grown,

(41:22):
but that's fair enough. The squat's name. Tomorrow at five
point thirty after one o'clock will relive the Blues Super
Rugby victory.

Speaker 17 (41:31):
True.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
It's the only place to discuss the biggest sports issues
on and afterfield.

Speaker 18 (41:37):
It's all on We jen Ford.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
With Jason Vain on your home of sport.

Speaker 14 (41:43):
US Talk.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Hello one O seven Jason Pine and producer Andy McDonald
here until three. In about an hour or so, our
Road to Paris feature continues. Sir Mark Todd to join
us seven time Olympian, five time Olympic medalist, two time
gold medallist aboard Charisma nineteen eighty four and nineteen eighty
eight in the three day event. Sir Mark Todd, one

(42:05):
of our true great Olympians, is with us in about
an hour or so. This hour though, James mcconey at
the back end of the hour, we will talk about
the warriors. I feel like we have to quite which
words we should use. I'm not sure, but man, that
was quite something, wasn't it on the Gold Coast yesterday afternoon?

(42:32):
Quite something? You can continue to send your All Blacks
teams through if you like your fifteen or members of
the thirty two man squad to be named tomorrow. But
I do want to zero in on what happened at
Eden Park last night. Because the Blues are Super Rugby champions.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
It's gonna go over the line. Blue hat have loue
to hear these words again. The Blues a Super Rugby
champions for the first time in twenty one years. Day
demolished the Chiefs send to the final.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Forty one ten Yeah, absolute demolition job on the Chiefs
last night, forty one ten five tries to won their
fifteenth win in seventeen games this season, the Blues and
their first Super Rugby title in twenty one years. Forty
five game. All Blacks front rower case Mews was part
of their Blues title winning side back in two thousand
and three and he joins us now when you won

(43:23):
it by beating the Crusaders in two thousand and three, Case,
I bet you didn't think you'd be wating twenty one
years before the Blues won it again.

Speaker 8 (43:30):
No, mate, We've come close a few times and we
had our reunion last year. Twentieth year in the anniversary
last year. It's good catch up to see a lot
of the boys. And I'm sure we were all all
cheering on the Blues last night in that fantastic dominant
win that they had.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
It was dominant case, wasn't it. How much have you
enjoyed watching vern Cotter's forward dominated game plan? Rarely pay
dividends this year.

Speaker 8 (43:56):
I've loved this soul and I think that's what they've
just been listening, that Ford pack dominatum, which is what
Auckland were renowned for back in the day when you
know all around Patrick or all that, or just before
us when they went up the two Toms prior to
us winning it in two thousand and three. So yeah,
I think they've got back to the bread and butter.
You know, they've got the biggest pack and they just

(44:18):
speed the way last night. They just dominant in ball, carrying,
dominant at scrub time, and they just set up that
back line when they got close to that there's the
trial line, and then unleashed, unleashed the big backs on
on onto white cuttle, onto the Chiefs. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
How much credit do we need to give vern Cotter
here for not only coming up with this game plan.
It's nothing new, but it's it's the game plan he
settled on, but then also getting them all to buy
into it for seventeen games.

Speaker 8 (44:49):
Yeah, I can remember all the all the chat at
the beginning of the season where everyone's going, what's wearn
up to? What's bearing up to? But I think he
had a plan and he saw a style that that
Auckland should be played and he brought it in and
and the big thing is giving that buying from the players.
So you know, you can have all the all the
best ideas as a coach. If you don't get the
players on board and lead lead to your vision, then

(45:14):
then you know it can it can go sideways. But
they all accepted it. They all look like they're having
a great time out there. Every time I saw the
Blues play, they just knew, they knew their trade and
they knew what to do and knew how to win games.
And you know, I think the loss against Cannbury was
a really good turning point for the Blues where they
just focused on on their style and being calm and

(45:36):
collected and not getting too carried away with the emotion.
And you saw that last night. They didn't give up.
They just kept kept trying to get points, get down
the get down the far end, and you know it
was it was a fantastic spectacular.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
How much easier would it have been to get the
buy and when they're doing so well, because you know,
if you if you're you're banging a drama and and
your players are playing that tune and you're winning games,
it must be a heck of a lot easier than
if you're going through you know, peaks and troughs during
the season.

Speaker 8 (46:03):
Oh totally. I think the belief came because they were trying,
and I don't think that this team that they showed
to last night, that's been building over the whole competition.
So each game they played, the confidence to play that
style got bigger, better and stronger, and the belief was there,
and you know, like that they stuck with it, and
Burn stuck with it. Didn't he didn't panic, he didn't

(46:25):
change anything, and and you got that fantastic result last night,
which was so good to see the Blues. Blues play. Yeah,
and the.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Chiefs, I mean, they they've had a like they had
a brutal semi final against the Hurricanes last week, played
really well, lost a couple of key players. They were
just I mean, forty one team looks looks like a
really convincing when in it was. But you know, what
did you make of the Chiefs last night? Just outplayed
but there I.

Speaker 8 (46:52):
Just think that the Blues were just dominant. But I
think the Chiefs really really gave, you know, gave the all.
They just a few things didn't go their way, and
you know you do it is sapping on your on
your on your big ball is when you have to
tackle all of the you know, the likes of the
the Auckland Pack running it and then unleashing that that

(47:14):
phenomenal back line. I just think they didn't really get
a chance to show show what they what they really had.
We saw it last weeks against the Hurricanes, and it's
it's a hard one because it could have been a
completely different game if it was a dry track as well. Indeed,
but super happy that the Blues won. They deserved it

(47:37):
for a few years now and and to actually win
the competition out I was just so I'm so proud
of that franchise and the and the players that were
out there.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
That's terrific. Just before you go, I was looking at
that two thousand and three side man, that was some
side case that you guys had.

Speaker 8 (47:51):
That was a very good side you know. Yeah, that
back line was lightning, you know, led by Carlos and
you know feeding feeding the Crusaders was because it was fantastic.
You know, that was the highlight of of of my
rugby career. You always have a have a bad towards him,
and to win a Super twelve with Auckland was was
was fantastic.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
What was I mean? I've been at a couple of
events where you and Carlos have both been on panels
speaking the other. What was he like in a team environment?
Carlos Pencer very quiet but very.

Speaker 8 (48:22):
Capable like he he you know, he's very shy or
Carlos and but when when he got the ball in
his hand, he was the maestro and every everyone would
play off him, you know, and he would raise raise
that that that back line he'd pulled something out of
out of out of his bag of magic tricks and

(48:43):
he'd set that back line on fire. And it was
such a pleasure to be in front row looking up
and senior back line running running in under the posts
and yeah, yeah, you know that if you did your
job and gave them clean ball that they were going
to do this, so you know it was, it was.
It was a pleasure playing with the Blues. Brilliant.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
Okay's great to chat mate, Thanks for taking our calls,
right yeah. The Blues indeed case case News their member
of the two thousand and three title winning side. I
read this team out yesterday and it is it is
some team. Manu Milamu muse with the front row, Ellie Williams,
Angus McDonald with the locks, Justin Collins, Dan Braid, Xavier

(49:23):
Rushed the Lucy's, David Gibson and Carlos Spencer, the Haves,
Sam tytu Port, Mills, Mulliina in the centers, Rico Gear,
Joe Rocothoco, Doug Howlett. How's that for a back three?
And then on the bench that night, least tenseness or
any i e. Craig McGrath, Mossy two Elite, Brad Meeker,
Tony Woodcock, Darren Woodkim what a team, What a team?
Twenty one years on the Blues of twenty twenty four,

(49:48):
emulate them. How was the game last night?

Speaker 3 (49:51):
Mark?

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Did you enjoy it?

Speaker 9 (49:53):
Old man?

Speaker 6 (49:55):
My seventeen points was a little bit out one note, Yes,
yes it was.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Was it thirty one? Thirty one points in the ear?

Speaker 9 (50:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (50:04):
A couple of things day.

Speaker 9 (50:06):
So, first of all, one player, I thought, when you
look at the stats.

Speaker 5 (50:13):
Maybe.

Speaker 9 (50:15):
The other players.

Speaker 19 (50:18):
I did the work for him. But Papa Ledi his
peckle camp I think was close to one hundred percent,
but his meters gained and possession were in single figures.

Speaker 9 (50:31):
Am I right there?

Speaker 2 (50:33):
I haven't got the numbers in front of me, Mark,
I'll try and look them up. So, but so you're
saying that he didn't carry the ball of all?

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Is that?

Speaker 2 (50:39):
What is that the point you're making.

Speaker 19 (50:41):
I'm probably probably saying that everybody else did their job
and what he did he did. He's okay, Yeah, Yeah,
I love the guy Pabe Ledi, I already do.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
I think he's He's very good.

Speaker 19 (50:56):
But no, the actual the whole night case, the halftime show,
the crowd and a lot of children there and.

Speaker 8 (51:07):
It was absolutely spectacular.

Speaker 19 (51:09):
To be honest, Jason, I've only been to I've been
to Eaton Park a lot of times, watch Ramfley shield
back in the seventies eighties. Yeah, I've only ever been
to two Test matches and both those test matches.

Speaker 8 (51:23):
We've lost, and that was when Cornelson.

Speaker 19 (51:25):
That was when corn Nelson scored the four tries against
the All Blacks. Yes, and that was also when ville
Peru kicked that penalty to get the fourteen all draw.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Were you there that guy as well?

Speaker 9 (51:40):
Yes?

Speaker 19 (51:41):
I think that was just inside his own heart on
the sideline, if I can remember correctly.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
I thought that game was an athletic park.

Speaker 19 (51:52):
Was it athletic or Eden Park?

Speaker 10 (51:53):
No?

Speaker 2 (51:54):
I think the ville per kick was an athletic park.
I'm almost certain of it.

Speaker 19 (51:58):
Okay, Well I was there anyway, I.

Speaker 10 (52:01):
Know that.

Speaker 9 (52:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 19 (52:04):
But last night mate, absolutely brilliant. And the restaurant's and
the bars around that area now, like I haven't been
to Auckland since I came back in two sixteen. Wow,
I went to an Italian restaurant and the food which
is absolutely beautiful and not overly priced.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Good Man, Mark, I'm glad you had a great night.
And you're right about Papaali. He is a terrific player,
has long been a terrific player for me. I think
gets first DIBs on the seven jersey for the All
Blacks has to really. I think he's sort of been
always in and around the All Blacks and will always
be a part of the All Blacks. You'd have to

(52:45):
think for the next little while. Because he's versatile, he's robust,
he's fully committed, he's a terrific player. I think he
wears the seven jersey for the All Blacks or gets
the ownership of it to start with the season anyway,
because he is a tremendous part of that Blue side.

(53:05):
And obviously Patrick Twey pilotus the captain, but when he
went off and Puppily took over, and when Patty Tuops
hasn't been there, paply Man, Yeah, can't say enough about
the guy. I think he's a huge part of the
Blue success. How are you, Chris?

Speaker 7 (53:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (53:23):
Really good?

Speaker 10 (53:23):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (53:24):
Very good things?

Speaker 8 (53:25):
Chris?

Speaker 14 (53:26):
Look, I guess obviously I was at the game last night,
and you know, I've loved the Blues and Autorn rugby
for all of my life, and my dad was obviously
the same as well. But look, I think last night's performance,
I guess if we're looking at the All Blacks team
and we're looking at him, and there's been a lot
of selectious talk this morning, and I love your show.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
By the way.

Speaker 14 (53:43):
But I guess I look at it and go if
you're looking at it at performance, and if you're looking
at at who is foreman, who is dominant? What really
annoys me? And I know that you know he's been
a polarizing guy for some people, but a Kira last
night was without a doubt, the best player, or for
a large part of the game, the best player on
the field that first half. What he did there statistically

(54:04):
was just ridiculous. And if you actually want chiming the game,
he hits more ruck than anyone. I mean, he had
more carries than anyone. He set up, you know, the
first try, set up the second try with two. You know,
he came round the back, took the ball once, got
it out to his father, and then got the ball
back again. I mean, why why is he now where
he was absolutely dominated last night? Why is he the

(54:28):
first tip? Why why are you selecting him where if
you look at statistically through the whole season, the curist
dominated him, and any the game in the last round
robin play dominated him. Like why why is the Kura
not talked to Gout? I understand it's going over the
Citas and he might end up playing for Japan, you.

Speaker 8 (54:42):
Know, so like where where where?

Speaker 14 (54:44):
And how are we making decisions based on formal performance
or were just taking like throwing a dart at the
board and seeing who's going to get that?

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Sick what I say on my rationales as I look
at a kidder Yowani's performances in the All Blacks Jersey
up until now and he he, I think you'd probably
agree chrisse he hasn't grasped that opportunity when it's been
given to him.

Speaker 14 (55:06):
I think there hasn't been consistency. I think people look
through what and I if we don't remember the Brigislow
Cut series a couple of years ago.

Speaker 15 (55:14):
He absolutely destroyed.

Speaker 14 (55:16):
Australia in that series, do you know what I mean?
Like single handlely in one of those games, he just
literally and he's had some phenomenal performances and he never
gets beaten backwards. I think we haven't had a six.
So Ethan black at It is a great player, but
I don't think he's a six. And he's very fragile, right,
so he's had, you know, and I wish him the best.
I wish that and I love Scott Robinson, right, I

(55:37):
think he should have been the coach back then, and
I obviously I love Graham Henry and I have there
against him a little bit. But look, ultimately a Kira
needs consistency, and right now he is the statistically and
non performance of the best six in the country. Like
you can't not say that, Like well, but based.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
On the numbers, Based on the numbers, Chriss, I think
you're probably right, yes, and the I think you're also right,
and that the fact that he's going to Japan now
may in many ways rule him out of contention. Let's
just say that they're not going to pick him. Who
would you pick at six for the first test?

Speaker 14 (56:12):
Look, that's just incredibly I mean, I'm obviously I love
a curer, so it's hard for me to say. But
of course I think it will be black att it
just because I think that's just the route that Scott
Robertson will take. But I think black Hatder will get
man handled by England. I think that what we forget
about is that we want to win the series right
and forward pack, especially that loose Ford they're big boys,

(56:35):
like they're significantly bigger in size, and the thing was
the Curate. I think he's probably still one of the quickest,
if not the quickest forwards in New Zealand rugby. But
he's also huge, like his whole body, and I think
we're going to get pushed around. I just honestly think
Artie's a phenomenal plan. But he's not overly big either
for the position, you know, and you know seven, you
know you can be a little bit small and a

(56:56):
little bit more dynamic. I just think that we're going
to get into some problems in that forward pack if
we don't look at winning the actual Test series rather
than looking too far ahead of ourself. Because look for
at last year, you know so, and he went overseas,
So look, ultimately, I don't think he will be picked,
which is hard for me to say, but you know,
and I wish him all the best. But look, getting
back to the Blues as that game last night, for me,

(57:18):
I was at three. I was there through the glory
days in the late eighties and nineties with no provincial
just dominance. But that performance last night, if anyone could
not say that they deserved it throughout the season, I mean,
you know, you look at the breakdown as a show, right,
which was the after last week's semi finals they spent
maybe a minute on Auckland, right, there was no one
on Auckland on that panel, and they spent the rest

(57:40):
on the Chiefs, and there was a lot of talk
up with Chiefs and you wanted to do that, but
that was just an absolute dominant performance of well rounded
rugby and they never had a shot at it. So
I mean, I'm proud of them and thank you for
your show and what you do.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
But yet that's my best, no, Chris, fantastic points well made.
Thanks mate, thanks for calling in. Please call back again.
And you're right, there's no one who watched that game
last night who could deny that the Blues weren't worthy
one Ers absolutely dominated and all fasts of the game.
And I love the fact that a Kider you only
got a lovely ovation when he departed. He has been
a great servant for that team. I think your point

(58:15):
about England's interesting too, and that I think that that's
another reason i'd pick some a penny fee now at
six is because he's a big body, you know, bigger
than some of the others who are in the conversation.
Great to chat to you, Chris, Thanks for taking the time.
One twenty four is Afghanistan a playing Australia in the
Super rights at the T twenty World Cup, and currently

(58:35):
Afghanistan are ninety without loss in the thirteenth over, so
they're not going along at more than about seven and
a bit, but ninety without loss Afghanistan against Australia in
the Super eights. We'll keep an eye on that for you.
We probably need to address the Warriors. He's great, chilly
and he gives.

Speaker 13 (58:54):
The ball away.

Speaker 12 (58:55):
Lucky can't per. He turns his first hat trick into four.
There's the icing on top. He begs it over. It
is sixty six points to six. A record breaking afternoon
on the Gold Coasts. Loffy can Pereira with four tier

(59:20):
and four and winding back the clock in sublime form.
The veteran coach delighted, the fans ecstatic, and the Warriors.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Well, what do you say? What do you say? It's
a very good question, absolutely inexplicable, almost impossible to explain.
The joint biggest defeat in the history of the club,
equalling the loss of the Storm two years ago. But
that was a Storm team that was top of the
comp against a comparatively weak Warrior's side. During the COVID period.

(59:58):
Last night's defeat was to the team at the bottom
of the NRL Ladder, and the Warriors team was pretty solid.
You look through it and yes they were missing a
couple of origin and Delan martenis a Lesniak was suspended
and Rocker Berry wasn't there. But you look down that
team list Nicol Klukstar two of us A check back, Pompey, Montoya,

(01:00:19):
Johnson for no Blake, Egan, Ford, Harris all there effectively
the same group of players who finished in the top
four last season. Try and make sense of that. You
might not be able to, but if you'd like to
give it a crack, oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty,
it's not terminal. Obviously, every game's only worth two points,
but the nature of this might leave some scars and

(01:00:44):
cast doubt into the minds of players and fans about
whether this team is actually a top eight proposition. There
are eleven rounds to go, including two buys for the Warriors,
so there's four points straight away, and there are only
three points outside the top eight, so it's certainly not
the end of their season by any stretch. But man,
do they have to make some changes quickly before the

(01:01:06):
Broncos at Town on Saturday, fresh off thereby and needing
wins to make their own push to the top eight.
This is a massive test for Andrew Winbster, a massive test.
Your thoughts encouraged our eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
just before we got to a break. Watching the Warriors
last night reminded me actually of one of the all
time great talkback calls. This was from twenty eighteen, six

(01:01:31):
years ago. The Warriors made the top eight that season,
but they lost to the Titans in around twenty fairly
convincingly thirty six points to twelve. The next day, this
is six years ago, Jared called the radio station.

Speaker 10 (01:01:45):
You just wanted to.

Speaker 9 (01:01:46):
Quickly to say a few words were going to Warriors.

Speaker 8 (01:01:48):
Yeah, I started with.

Speaker 7 (01:01:49):
This boom boom, boom boom.

Speaker 20 (01:01:55):
You're playing the Titans, the Titan Titans. It was crap, soft,
lazy week, heartless.

Speaker 5 (01:02:06):
He was no mental fortitude.

Speaker 7 (01:02:08):
It was soft boom boom boom.

Speaker 8 (01:02:13):
Awful Persisi.

Speaker 6 (01:02:15):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
That was from six years ago and it probably still
stands up to scrutiny after last night one twenty eight
back with your Warrior's calls, after this.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
It's more than just a game.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
Weekends for it with Jason Vine and GJ. Garnerholmes, New
Zealand's most trusted home builder, News Dogs and.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
B one thirty. Yeah, a lot of good reaction to
to Jared's call from six years ago. You can make
your call right now. Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
is our number. What did you make of it all? Rowan?

Speaker 21 (01:02:49):
Look, my name is Rowan, and I just wanted to
say one thing. If they are drinking Carver, they won't
win this competition. They have to stay right away from it.
It's a dreadful drink for them to be drinking. Has
seen it in past and really is not good for them.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
So all right, Yeah, I'm not sure they are drinking cover.
I haven't seen anything of that, of that nature, Raywan,
And I think you know, these are highly tuned athletes.
I think they look after what they put them to
their bodies. Hello, Trevor, howd Poonty? How are you, Trevor?
I'm good things.

Speaker 15 (01:03:24):
Yeah, I just my thoughts on the Warriors, I mean
the nature my team. I just sort of love their own,
our own general. But I said a couple of weeks
ago look, entrepreneur, Blake should never play another games for
the Warriors.

Speaker 11 (01:03:35):
His heart is not with the Warriors.

Speaker 15 (01:03:37):
He was a little bit upset that he wasn't released
immediate immediately, So he's probably a little bit, you know,
pissed off or a little bit annoyed like that. I mean,
many of you one of the best props in the competition,
and does he play like it?

Speaker 10 (01:03:50):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
So well, I think he did.

Speaker 12 (01:03:52):
He did.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
I think he did against the Cowboys when he remember
when he because they dropped him against the Dolphins for
that breach of protocol. He came back against the Cowboys.
I thought he was very good that day.

Speaker 8 (01:04:02):
So that's one.

Speaker 15 (01:04:03):
What about the losses earlier in the season when he
was playing well from what I've seen for a leading
prop in the competition, I mean, his heart's not there.
He doesn't want to be at the Warriors. And another
thing that'll upset a few people, Roger to a Varsi sheck.
I mean, you know, I don't know how much I
paid for Roger, but you know, his dream and probably
still is to be in All Black. Now, he had

(01:04:24):
a season off, tried to make it and he couldn't
make it. Now, he's not playing. I get there's a
little bit of resentment from Roger that he's not picked
a fullback. I mean, he is a human and humans
have different reactions and feelings about things. I mean, when
are we going to see the great Roger to a
Varsi sheck, we thought we were going to get and he's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
He's been out. To be fair for he he's been
out for the last five games with injury. He's only
just come.

Speaker 15 (01:04:49):
Back, but he was he was almost you know, he
wasn't to be seeing yet day and earlier in the
season he wasn't.

Speaker 8 (01:04:57):
You know.

Speaker 15 (01:04:57):
We can stick by him, but the problem is the
coach has to make some tough decisions. Forget about the
top eight. If you want to win the NRL, it
has to be the top four. You have to be
in the top four to win the NRL. And I
would have thought, after what the Warrior has done last year,
anything but the top four would be a failure. And
of course what they have to think about now is Sean.
Sean wants to be resigned for next year. I mean,

(01:05:19):
we've got to Mariray Martin, who's twenty eight, Sean's thirty three.
We've got Tavita Harris. You know, he's much younger, and
I've got that young guy who namely escapes me. He
was going to be sort of the next one in
line to do that. So I think they have to
sort of think twice about resigning Sean. I mean, Sean

(01:05:40):
and to Maury Martin just do not work together. I
noticed in the first half yesterday every play was through Sean.
Sean got the ball first time every time there was
a play. So you know, if they want to keep
sort of working along those lines, I think they're going
to struggle for the rest of the season. But you know,
I just would definitely not have Vanilla Blake. He's just

(01:06:02):
not He hasn't played like the best one of the
best props in the competition, and he doesn't want to
be there. He wants to be back in Australia. So
I think the coach are going to have to make
some pretty tough decisions.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
That's good on your travel, you know, not good points
well made by as usual by you. You're right about that,
You're absolutely right about that last. But because what we
have now is a selection conundrum, because some good young
up and coming players played a big part in Warriors
wins over the Panthers, the Dolphins, and the Cowboys. When

(01:06:36):
others were not there and unavailable for various reasons, younger
players stepped up and did the job. And yes, you
might say that they were keeping the seat warm for
the established players to come back, and I get that,
But when those established players come back, they have to
take inspiration from those younger players and also think to themselves, well, jeepest,

(01:06:59):
maybe this jersey isn't mine as of right anymore so,
Andrew Webster doesn't seem that incline to make wholesale changes
in terms of based on form. Yes, he'll bring players
him when he has to for unavailability, injury origin, all
that stuff, suspension, But I think now we might be
at the point where perhaps there have to be some

(01:07:20):
form based decisions made around certain players who perhaps in
the past might have felt like they were untouchable or certainly,
you know, pretty rusted. And I'm not saying the players
themselves think this. I'm almost certain they don't. I'm almost
certain any elite sports person doesn't think they have a
spot in the side as of right. But you know,

(01:07:42):
fans looking and saying, okay, well, you're not going to
drop him, or you're not going to drop that person.
You know they're rusted on starter. Now, maybe you've got
to take everything off the table and say, okay, how
do we win games? How have we won games? Panthers, Dolphins,
Cowboys who played well in those games, and maybe they
deserve an extended running the side. How are you feel?

Speaker 22 (01:08:03):
Not too bad?

Speaker 10 (01:08:03):
Party?

Speaker 8 (01:08:04):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
I'm good?

Speaker 18 (01:08:07):
Okay, let's get into it a Worris.

Speaker 8 (01:08:09):
I'll watched it.

Speaker 18 (01:08:12):
I'll start off with Jared. That call of Jared is
a classic. That's probably what I'm thinking in my mind
at the moment. I'll get into it. I'll do a
week quick funny for a start, and then I'll get
into it. Reminded me of Rowan Atkinson, you know, the comedian,
And I was listening to a take that he done
one day and it was on soccer and you'll be
in a soccer man. You'll you'll like this because it's

(01:08:33):
the ridiculous of the situation. Then he goes twenty. Now,
but don't worry, it's only half time.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
We'll makes you funny enough. Phil. I was watching that
game and I thought, well, as long as we can
get to half time, it's sort of eighteen eighteen, zil
we might be a right in the second half, and
then it was twenty four, and then it was thirty
and then but then you think to yourself, Okay, well
that's a terrible half. Surely they'll be better after the break.
Sixty six six. It's almost impossible to process.

Speaker 18 (01:09:07):
It is like I watched the first half and I
watched it delayed, and then I flipped onto the second
half in the last ten minutes, and that's when I've
seen the score sixties sixty to six, and I thought, jeez,
I'll put me classes on. I can't believe this had
just done me. But I'll get into it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
You know.

Speaker 18 (01:09:24):
It's like, so you can talk about all the technical
things that you know they didn't do right, went wrong.
The completion rates were rubbish, predictable lines of attack that
were easily snuffed out and dealt with, silly handling mistakes
and eras dropping them like schoolboys, you know, on a
practice run. And then of course the pathetic weeks soft tackling.

(01:09:48):
You know that girls could have run through. You can
do all that, talk about all that, but I and
I'm a bit this may be a bit controversial because
I was sort of thinking along the same lines as
you that think back to those three games that they
won from the teams that they weren't expected to beat,
when some of the experienced players were out through injury

(01:10:08):
or whatever other reason, and they put the young guys
in there and gave them a chance, and they were hungry,
fired up, and wanted to prove their place and the
team and show they wanted to be in that team.
And they had the hunger and the fighting them and
the aggressiveness and the hardness and toughness and that, and
I'm thinking maybe it's but it's time to look at

(01:10:29):
some of these older players, you know, that dn't performance
so well and make that controversial call, you know, make
that tough call, and say, well, we'll bring back some
of these young fellows that played so well and showed
their worth, you know, in those games, because otherwise I
think you're just going to end up like it's been
since the start of the Warriors, where they've showed brilliant

(01:10:50):
at times, they played really well, and you've got the
hopes up and you think, oh yeah, go on, goodness,
this could be a year. But then at the end
of the year, It's like, oh, well, maybe next year'll
be a year you know, we'll just be in the
same position and they'll be on repeat for as long
as I'm a life.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
Yeah, I got another couple of calls waiting, But yeah,
this selection is the fascinating part. Now, what is Andrew
Whops to do for the game against the Broncos this
coming week? To follow the Bulldogs and the Raiders? I mean,
every game is important. Now what does he do? I
think there'll be a huge temptation to bring back some
of those kids or I guess you call them second

(01:11:26):
string players, fringe players? What do you want to call them?
Who did the job against the likes of the Panthers
and the Dolphins. What would you do?

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
Mark?

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
What would your what would your first thing be this week?

Speaker 11 (01:11:39):
Ferously, I'd quickly like to congratulate the Blues and nay
doing something no one I know the coach has done
twenty one years. Has got to be celebrated, its rugby,
rugby pundits and supporters out there sort of the deserve
it champions.

Speaker 8 (01:11:54):
For twenty four.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
The Warriors, that was extremely.

Speaker 11 (01:11:59):
Hard to watch and they haven't really had a game
where they've just left teams steamroll them for well of
years now like in the past, dub let teams once
they get ahead, roll over them like that. But last
night was just an embarrassment and I think all the
players and the coach probably is embarrassed after that. The
key factor here in all the losses, and I guess

(01:12:22):
I am pointing the fact that is Sean Johnson. When
he plays, they lose the statistic that stands out at
the moment, and he in the n RL, and I've
been watching it for a long time. If you don't
have a running number number seven, you ain't gonna win.
If you just got a number seven, and he whether

(01:12:43):
through injury or whatever this year, I mean last year
should have won the DLM and he was probably the
best player in the.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
N r L.

Speaker 11 (01:12:50):
But this year, if you're not running the balls number
seven and you're just a kicker, then your team's not
going to win.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
Mark you have now that as usual with your comments,
I'll just sound Johnson, and I know he is an
easy escapegoat for a lot of people, and you're right,
he has been there for some losses this season. But
also let's not forget he was in the seven jumper
when the Warriors beat the Raiders and the Knights and
the Rabbit O's in rounds three, four and five and

(01:13:23):
looked very good. I don't know whether his injury is
still afflicting him. I guess we'll find out the in
the next few days with regards to what they do
against the Broncos. Thanks Mark good Chat Got to Get
a Breakaway eighteen to two. Back in the Moment with
James mcconey from.

Speaker 22 (01:13:38):
Penrose to Paris.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
You like to call on un and eighty ten eighty
Weekends Sports with Jason Pine and GJ. Gardner Holmes, New
Zealand's most trusted home builder, News Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
B one five News Talk said, b it seems almost
cruel to get you on, James mcconey after last night.
Are you're okay?

Speaker 3 (01:14:01):
My brother alive? It's been tough and he shouted you
please come on, please show some respect.

Speaker 22 (01:14:11):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
That is that is quite the burn. That is quite
the burn. Isn't it all right?

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):
Andy? You've had your fun there? It has been tough.
And look, even if I wanted to put my Chiefs
jerseys on a bonfire last night, I couldn't because of
the persistent rain that cost us the game as soon
as it rain Pinier was over. But full credit, as
they say to Vernecotta, Patrick tupul or two in the

(01:14:36):
Blues just so dominant. What a performance it was.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
It was a terrific Grand Final performance from the Blues.
I don't want to gloss over or anything like that,
but do you think there was some players last night
who really stuck their hand up for All Black selection
if they hadn't already.

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
Look, I'm worried that it's maybe cost some of my guys.
Let's just say the Chiefs their selection. I will just
before we move on the selection say Patrick two Pulo
two was immense and I agree with your caller Chris
about a kidder Joanni. He was almost made of a
match for me as well. I think it went to

(01:15:15):
Patrick in the end. But yes, and also a couple
of unsung heroes. Marcel Lenetta first season as a starting
prop and he was this incredible hustle, huge engine and
aj Lamb filling it at second five. He's a winger
and played so well at the back end of the season.
But yes, selections, Piney, who is your let's just say

(01:15:38):
the interesting selection, who is your third hooker?

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
And I'll respond mine is Ricky Rictelly.

Speaker 3 (01:15:45):
Yes, I think I agree, Ricky the Rhino is going
to get his chance. An undersized hooker, but white a player,
big heart, gutsy, tough, just what Razor likes, accurate thrower.
So maybe George Bell, who I thought might be getting
the nod out of, you know, the Crusaders. I think

(01:16:07):
Ricky could get his chance there, although because he's part Italian,
I'd almost say just one play one hundred tests for Italy,
you know, is a number one.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
That's the only other guy. The only other guy they
could look at is Kurt Eklund, but he's been number
two to Rickettelly for the Blues, So yeah, I kind
of feel yet it's it's Taylor Almore and Rickettelly I
expect as the three hookers. Who do you think do
you think that in terms of the outside backs, where
does Stephen Petter Fetter fit into this whole thing? For
you see, an outside back is your first five?

Speaker 7 (01:16:39):
What is he?

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
I think Peter Efeta has to be packed because you've
got McKenzie and Bowden as the first five and in
this you know, I think goalkicking wise, you've got Jordi
as you know him and McKenzie is maybe your main goalkickers,
but that means you still need another goalkicker and it's
either Bowden or Stephen Prefeta, and I mean either all.

(01:17:04):
But I think Peter Fettter will get in for the
those skills and be able to cover that position. And
I think his versatility may just cost Ruben Love, who's
been incredible. But I think Ruben Love is in a
maybe even a four way battle for that other outside back.
You know, is it Josh Morby or Jacob that too,
Mike Tevuke Meekins. Could we get an absolute bolter like

(01:17:27):
Shafi Hackey. You know, this is the thing about Razor
is he will want people who are tough, he can
take the high ball, who can handle England. And maybe
he's just going to come up with something out of
the box there.

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):
And I'm not saying that he will be in the team.
But Harry Plumber, he started just two games at first
five for the Blues last year. He's basically run the
cutter for them for the last three months. Stephen Petefender,
who was supposed to be first five, has been pushed
back to fullback. I mean, I'd like to say I
don't think Harry Plumber is going to be in this
all black squad, but what an influence on the Blues.

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
Well, if Boden wasn't coming back, I think Harry would
be in the squad. That's that's how good he's been.
So Boden returning from Japan is really cutting Plumber's lunch there.
But yeah, I agree, I think Plumber was exceptionally again
last night. And also, you know one thing I should
say about rugby journalist is they always go, oh, you

(01:18:23):
need a world class first five to win Super Rugby,
and then in the same breath they say, well you can't.
The game's one up front. Make your mind up, rugby journalists.
But obviously last night the game was run up front.
But the first five at the cutter running the cutter
was not an international. It was humble Harry Plumber, a
kid from Auckland. He's just come through and plugged away

(01:18:45):
for years in that team and as a as a
bit part, you know, as an understudy. So I think
there was outstanding one for the underdogs last night.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
Indeed, the entree to the rugby wasn't that palatable, was it.
I'm not sure whether you caught much of the Warriors game.

Speaker 3 (01:19:02):
Yeah, I know, I was really concerned for Mike Hosking
on Kate Hawksby's social I just was worried about him.
And yeah, he was kind of going through all the
stages of grief over eighty minutes, it seemed, and that
kind of defeat as a total Steve Hanson, flush the
duney and move on my moment.

Speaker 9 (01:19:21):
You can't.

Speaker 3 (01:19:23):
You can't really dwell on that. This is the one
thing I thought was lacking was just that confidence to regroup.
And I thought, well, you've got enough experienced players out there,
so that would be the big headache for Andrew Webster
is does he persist with these guys, give him another chance,

(01:19:43):
or does he go with that young group that did
so well against Penreth a couple of weeks ago. This
is that's going to be watched the Space Oh just
including another watch the Space selection. Do you go with
Peter Larkeye probably getting the backup seven spot, or do
you say Braden you're seat or Wallace A Titi comes

(01:20:06):
in to provide some you know, some ball carrying expertise.
Pining is, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (01:20:12):
Haven't got any of that. Of my lucies. I've got
Blackhead of Female Jacobs and papoal Savia and Soitutu. Yeah,
it's a crowded field, right, it's a crowded field.

Speaker 3 (01:20:24):
It's a crowded maybe what's the what do you call it?
The training the way that raised sneaks in some bolts,
because even the battle between Quartiez, Latima and Fatava I
think is tight, although I think Latima will get the
nod and Nigel Hotham stead of breathing down her neck
in the next couple of seasons. But because they're playing England,

(01:20:47):
I think it's going to be more conservative if they're
playing a different nation, if it was Wales or Scotland
or just you know, anyone else coming south this winter.
Quite different. And Harvey le I would like to actually
see Billy the elite frog there or maybe even Quinti

(01:21:09):
Pie come back and into the mix, because I think
that Proctor has been incredible this entire season.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
Yeah, he's been very good. Hey, just a quick word
on the Euros. Are England are they were favorites going
into the tournament by most bookies estimation? Are England just
not very good?

Speaker 8 (01:21:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
I'm not sure what they are. They're confusing and I
think Gareth Southgate, now that he's lost the waistcoat, just
hasn't got his mojo.

Speaker 8 (01:21:34):
He's just one.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
Or is he wearing it. I'm not sure.

Speaker 8 (01:21:36):
I haven't said no, he's not null.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
I haven't seen them, haven't seen the waistcoat.

Speaker 3 (01:21:39):
Yeah, they guess, but they've got three really good attackers
and Harry Kane, Quay Osaka and Phil Foden and they're
not quite sure what to do with them and they're
not yelling at all. They left out Marcus Rashford, he
didn't ever make the squad, so right now England is
sort of struggling for chemistry really and also leaning on

(01:22:01):
even though their best player Jude Bellingham has just won
the UEFA champion. He is twenty twenty one years old.
It's crazy expecting him to provide that or run the
cut for them. So look, I think they he might
actually have to try and put in some of those

(01:22:23):
players that he never thought were going to play, because
they just look all at sea and they don't have
any cutting edge at the moment.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
No good on you, James. Great to chat as always.
James McConney, big part of our Sunday six and a
half to two News Talks.

Speaker 22 (01:22:35):
Heead B.

Speaker 2 (01:22:40):
Three and a half to two News Talks HEADB after
our news at two, our Road to Paris, a very
popular Road to Paris feature continues. One of the all
time greats, Sir Mark Todd after two.

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
The only plays for the big names, the big issues,
the big controversies and the big conversations. It's all on
weekends forward with Jason Lain on your home of Sport
News Talks.

Speaker 9 (01:23:08):
It'd be.

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
Two o seven another hour, and then Tim Beveriges takes
the mic for the next segment of your Sunday Here
on News Talks, they'd be the weekend Collective. Before we
get to that, the Road to Paris continues, Sir Mark
Todd is our guest, very shortly reliving his seven Olympic Games,
five Olympic medals, two gold medals aboard Charisma nineteen eighty

(01:23:32):
four and nineteen thirty eight in the three day event.
Also this hour, Wayne Goldsmith, our coaching guru. We get
the benefit of his wisdom about once a month or so.
Wanted to ask Wayne about how a new coach should
approach that assignment coming into an established team, just as
Scott Robertson is how should new coaches approach their teams,

(01:23:54):
What are the different ways of doing that in which
one is best suited? Perhaps to Scott Robertson, Wayne Goldsmith
is out. We've had quite a few people wanting to
hear Jared's call again from six years go. I might
give that another rip at some stage, but with a
time approaching eight pass too. As we always do at

(01:24:15):
around about this time on weekend sport, we like to
make sure that you're up to date. We like to
keep you informed and bring you some of the things
that you may have missed. Annie McDonald has again very
passionately and effectively put together in case you missed it,
and he spectacularly left the Warriors out well done and

(01:24:37):
by the other NRL games not involving the Warriors, though,
the Roosters continue to look good.

Speaker 16 (01:24:42):
But it won't matter because the Roosters have pun perhaps
their best.

Speaker 2 (01:24:46):
Performance of the season. They played the full eighty year tonight.
They didn't give the Bulldogs a sniff. The Roosters twenty six,
Bulldogs eight and the rabbito's on a roll.

Speaker 10 (01:24:59):
Right on the line.

Speaker 12 (01:25:00):
Tuck started the door, played there fight come over a tune.

Speaker 4 (01:25:06):
Said there it's been right away between treves two and three,
but you can log it in any.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
South of what four in a row yet fourteen nil
the Rabbinis over the Sea Eagles to the euro Football Championship.
Belgium jump up to the top of their group.

Speaker 23 (01:25:24):
That's come through here for do Brana, who's wrapped up
the room for Belgium. The captain makes the point safe
and Belgium.

Speaker 12 (01:25:36):
Have their first win and this Euro at deadly finish
from Kevin de Brenda.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
Two nil Belgium over Romania. Portugal have made simple work
of Turkey. Here's Cristiano Ronaldo.

Speaker 23 (01:25:49):
It's a great chance for three now and it's rotted
Bruno Fernandez.

Speaker 19 (01:25:55):
Turkey's defense undone.

Speaker 23 (01:25:57):
Ten minutes into the second half, branw though, choosing to
set up his teammate and surely now this match out
of reach for Turkey.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
And it was three nil to Portugal. At the T
twenty Cricket World Cup, India getting easily past Bangladesh, winning
by fifty runs. They're the worldforce singers or India confidence
of winners. Here we win by fifty runs, the unbeaten run.

Speaker 7 (01:26:22):
Continuous and more importantly the place for themselves to the
semi points.

Speaker 2 (01:26:28):
To Rugby World Cup winners the spring Box. In traditional
spring Box form, they played Wales at Twickenham, the canceling moster.

Speaker 23 (01:26:40):
These the traditional virtues as said, they were good ruddy,
nobody does it, that's on your run.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
And they got to the trailne forty one thirteen South
Africa betting Whales and the Edmonton Oilers on fire in
the Stanley Cup ice hockey finals after going down three
nil to Florida. They're on the cusp of one of
the greatest comebacks of all times. To do that four
of O'clubroad.

Speaker 6 (01:27:09):
One on ten ten.

Speaker 20 (01:27:11):
Has set this place into deliria and at four.

Speaker 18 (01:27:15):
One Boilers Game seven is on the horizon.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
New Zealand into the home straight. Kiewis have won at all.

Speaker 1 (01:27:30):
Weekends.

Speaker 2 (01:27:31):
Force Road to Paris.

Speaker 7 (01:27:32):
Twenty twenty four.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
Eleven past two. The Paris Olympics are now just five
weeks away, less than that actually, so we continue our
Road to Paris feature revisiting some of our great Olympic
moments from the past. Sir Mark Todd is truly one
of our Olympic greats. First chosen to write a Questrian
in the Boycott at Moscow Olympics in nineteen eighty. He

(01:27:58):
went on to compete in seven Olympic Games between nineteen
eighty four and two thousand and sixteen. Only Dame Lisa
Carington has won more Olympic medals than his five. He
won New Zealand's first ever Olympic equestrian medal in nineteen
eighty four and a gold won two in Los Angeles
and then repeated the dos in Soul four years later.

(01:28:20):
And he's clear over that he can do what he
likes with these last two.

Speaker 22 (01:28:23):
It really doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
It's time for two two for time.

Speaker 17 (01:28:27):
Mark todsma the first time since nineteen thirty two that
one horse and rider have won the Olympic gold medal
for the three day events in two successive Olympic Games.

Speaker 8 (01:28:38):
And it was a key where you who.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
Doesn't he had back to back gold medals for Mark Todd.
Then he also won individual bronze in Sydney in two
thousand and was part of bronze medal winning New Zealand
teams in nineteen eighty eight and again at London in
twenty twelve. Among the many accolades in an incredible career,
he was named Writer of the century by the International
Equestrian Federation in two thousand and In twenty thirteen, he

(01:29:03):
was knighted for services to a quest in sport. Sir
Mark Todd is with us. Great to get the chance
to chat to you, so Mark, thanks for taking our call.
How did it all begin for you? When did you
first get onto a horse?

Speaker 24 (01:29:18):
Well, I mean I was one of those pony crazy kids.
I mean, I don't I don't know where it came from.
My family was not into horses at all. The only
things my grandfather had a farm and he had he
had horses on it. But it's all I ever wanted
to do. And I suppose the first time I sat
on a horse, that's probably about five or six.

Speaker 2 (01:29:40):
When did you start taking it seriously, start thinking about
it as as something you could do at a at
an elite level.

Speaker 24 (01:29:51):
I guess not till I was sort of in my
in my late teens, that you know, I was competing
in the local so I guess I had a reasonable
amount of success. And I've always read books and watch
things that going on overseas, and of course the Olympic

(01:30:12):
Games is always always something very special, and I guess
I started to aspire to to want to ride in
the Olympics, and it all sort of went from there,
and in nineteen seventy eight I went on my first
trip abroad to America to the World Championships, were there,

(01:30:34):
and I guess it all went on from there.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
And selection in the team for the Moscow Games in
nineteen eighty, which of course were largely boycotted by New Zealand.
How much of a disappointment was that for you?

Speaker 22 (01:30:47):
Well, when you're sort of I don't know how old
was I there.

Speaker 24 (01:30:50):
I was quite young, and you think, you know, you
get selected for Olympic Games and you think, oh my god,
this is going to be, you know, my only chance,
and suddenly it was gone. You know, little did I
know that instead of the end, it was just the beginning.

(01:31:11):
But yeah, at the time it was very disappointing, but
you know, you have to understand the reasons behind it,
and I guess they were the right reasons. But luckily,
you know, I got more chances.

Speaker 2 (01:31:28):
A lot more chances. Nineteen eighty four, sir Mark, your
gold was New Zealand's first year but a questrian Olympic medal,
and a gold one at that. Can you remember how
confident you felt going into LA in nineteen eighty four.

Speaker 24 (01:31:42):
Well, I just struck up a partnership with Charisma the
year before and we came to England at the beginning
of nineteen eighty four with the idea of going to
the Olympic Games because he'd had a very good form

(01:32:05):
in New Zealand. But we went to Badminton horse trials
in the spring of the Northern Hemisphere, which was sort
of April May, and he was he was second at Badminton,
so I went to I went to LA feeling confident

(01:32:26):
that he would be competitive, or that we could be competitive.
You know, in these sort of competitions, you never go
into and think, oh, I'm going to win this, because
you know, in a three day event, there's so many
different phases, so many different facets that you know any
stage anything can go wrong. And of course, you know
at badminton you mostly have the English and the Irish

(01:32:48):
and maybe some of the Europeans. You go to the
Olympic Games, you have you have competitors from all over
the world, so it is a different ball game. So
I went there feeling confident of a good performance, hopefully
finishing in the in the top ten, but of course
come away winning it was was extraordinary really.

Speaker 2 (01:33:10):
So you were second going into the show jumping after
the dressage and the cross country, and a clear round
put the heat on American Karen stives if she went
clear she would win gold. But on the penultimate obstacle,
her horse Ben Arthur clipped a rail. I remember seeing
some footage actually some mark of you having a cigarette

(01:33:31):
during around and sort of only keeping half an eye
on it. Can you remember the moment though, that her
horse clipped that rail and gold was confirmed for you?

Speaker 15 (01:33:41):
Oh?

Speaker 22 (01:33:42):
Absolutely, like yesterday.

Speaker 24 (01:33:44):
Yeah, no, sadly I was smoking in those days and
it was quite a nerve wrecking time. I mean, Charisma
wasn't a great show jumper, I mean that was his
weakest thing. And we'd managed to jump a clear round
and then Karen's horse would of course, we were the

(01:34:05):
last two to go. She warming up with me at
the same time, and her horse was like just looping
the loop over the fences, and I didn't think it
was going to touch one, so I'd sort of wandered
down to the rails to watch the last few of
her jumped the last few fences, and as I did

(01:34:25):
so he had the rail down. Maybe it was something
I was putting out there, but yeah, no, I couldn't
quite believe it. I think if you watched that footage
back again, I sort of put my hands over my
head in disbelief.

Speaker 22 (01:34:44):
No, it meant I'd won it.

Speaker 2 (01:34:45):
Yeah, it was a terrific footage. I've watched it a
lot on the lead up to chatting to you. How
much did Los Angeles change your life?

Speaker 24 (01:35:00):
It didn't, It didn't. I mean, you know, life, life
goes on, and you know, you you come back to
reality and of your day to day existence and life
is just the same. It certainly gave me a certain
amount of recognition, and you know, it took a while

(01:35:23):
for it to think in that you know it actually
you know, won a gold medal at the Los Angeles
Olympic Games. It certainly did. But I guess it did
change my life a little bit. But in the reality
the day to day it didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:35:41):
Was it always the plan to keep charisma as your
mount through to the nineteen eighty eight Games in soul?

Speaker 24 (01:35:48):
Yeah, Well, if you've if you've read the story, you know,
you know it was a little bit more complicated than that.
He was owned by a woman in New Zealand, and
she'd agreed that I could ride him and bring him to.

Speaker 22 (01:36:07):
The Olympic Games. And then after that.

Speaker 24 (01:36:13):
It was a little bit a little bit of a
complicated story, but she decided that she wanted to sell
the horse and didn't want me to ride it anymore.

Speaker 22 (01:36:23):
But luckily.

Speaker 24 (01:36:26):
My sponsor at the time will Rest, with Bill and
Judy Hall, who were the owners of will Rest, we
devised a plan where somebody else came in to buy
the horse on our behalf, and we managed to secure
the horse and again to go to the following Olympics,

(01:36:49):
which again he duly won.

Speaker 2 (01:36:51):
Yeah, and by comparison to nineteen eighty four, so mark,
from memory, nineteen eighty eight was a lot more comfortable.
Is that how you remember it?

Speaker 24 (01:37:00):
Yeah? Well, you know, he by that time he was
sixteen and we weren't quite sure whether you know not
many sixteen year olds were competing at that time, but
he and the lead up to the Olympic Games, he
just felt he felt amazing. So we just I had
two horses at a reserve horse, but we decided to

(01:37:23):
take Charisma. He won the dressage, he had the fastest
time cross country and we actually went into the show
jumping with a relatively comfortable.

Speaker 22 (01:37:38):
Lead.

Speaker 24 (01:37:38):
He I think he had two fences in hand going
into the show jumping phase. So it gave me a
little bit, you know, as I said, you know, show
jumping wasn't his strongest point. I think he from memory,
I think he had one down, but then it was

(01:38:00):
it was enough to enough of a he had enough
of a lead going to the show jumping that even
with one down still won quite comfortably.

Speaker 2 (01:38:08):
So back to back gold medals eighty four and eighty eight.
Want to bring you forward to Sydney two thousand of
bronze there and then you took eight years out from writing,
did a bit of coaching. Why did you decide to
take time out from competing at the top level.

Speaker 24 (01:38:25):
Well, I was in my forties by that stage, and
you know, I'd sort of lost motivation a little bit.
You know, I'd won badminton several times, I've won early
several times, I'd won two Olympics, and I sort of thought, well,

(01:38:46):
if I don't try and do something else now, I'm
going to be too old. And like I say, I'd
sort of lost motivation a little bit. So we decided
to call it a day, come back to New Zealand
And and get into raceources, breeding and train racehourses and

(01:39:09):
that that lasted for eight years and then we're living
quite happily down in South Island. When two old friends,
Eric Devander and Tinks Pottinger came to stay and they
were they were doing a training clinic in the South Lands,

(01:39:29):
and they said, over quite a lot of red wine
one night, way don't why don't you get a horse
and try out for the.

Speaker 22 (01:39:37):
For the soul. I'm not sold Beijing Olympics.

Speaker 24 (01:39:45):
And I said, will you find me a horse and
I'll think about it, and thought nothing more of that.
And then a few months later thinks rings up and
said I think I found you a horse, and and
that was literally how I got back into it. So
then went and had a look at the horse, gammed off.

(01:40:07):
I thought, well I probably won't like him, so that'll
be the end of it.

Speaker 22 (01:40:12):
But I did.

Speaker 24 (01:40:13):
I quite like them. Thought well he probably won't pass
the vest and that'll be the end of it, but
he did. I then rang a good friend Peter Vella
of Sir Peter Veller of New Zealand Bloodstock, and said,
would you be prepared to sponsor sponsors to go have
a go at the Olympics, and he said, well, give

(01:40:35):
me a minute and I'll think about it. Anyway, he
literally rang back a minute later and said, yes, we'll
do it. So that is how I got back into it.
And there was always the intention just to go to
go to Hong Kong for the Olympics and then that
would be it, but.

Speaker 22 (01:40:53):
It wasn't. We carried on.

Speaker 2 (01:40:57):
Indeed two more twenty twelve London Bronze again as part
of the New Zealand team, then twenty sixteen in Rio.
Did you know after Rio that that that would definitely
be it?

Speaker 24 (01:41:09):
Yeah, I mean that was you know, I think I'd
sort of pushed pushed the boat long enough. And Ria,
I have to say, was probably one of the biggest disappointments,
you know, of my career, for personally and for the team.
We went into the went into the show jumping on

(01:41:31):
a horse that normally jumps really really well and is
pretty reliable in the show jumping and silver medal, individual
silver medal position and team gold. I came out of
the show jumping with nothing. The first rail down, we
slipped from gold to silver. The second rail down, we

(01:41:55):
slipped to bronze and the third rail down. We were
out of it, and it was there was nothing I
could do on the horse. He just froze when he
got in there and just kept having rails and it
was I mean, you know, I was gutted personally not
to to win another individual medal at what I knew

(01:42:19):
was going to be my last Olympics. But when you
let the team down like that, it's it's something totally different.

Speaker 22 (01:42:26):
And no, it was. It was not a great day.
I'm afraid.

Speaker 2 (01:42:32):
How did you come to terms with it, with with
what it happened?

Speaker 24 (01:42:36):
Well, listenless you've been in the sport as long as
I have, you have you have good days and then
you have bad days and there is no way around it.
And you know, I've had had lots of bad days,
you know, through through my career, and you've just got
to pick yourself up and just say, oh, that was

(01:42:58):
didn't work, and you know, it's it's not life changing.
It's disappointing that it's not life changing, and you just
have to put it in perspective. And you know, I
have to say, you know the rest of the team,
you know, they were great as well, and we had
a few drinks and commiseration that night and everybody was,

(01:43:20):
you know, disappointed, but still in good spirits.

Speaker 2 (01:43:23):
So, yeah, across your career you achieved so much, and
you talked about badminton and burley. Where do your Olympic
gold medals rank in all of that smark?

Speaker 24 (01:43:36):
You know, the thing about winning an Olympic medal is
you know, you know, you know I can win. You know,
I won four badmintons, I won five Burley's. And to
the average person, you know, that probably means nothing. They
don't know what that is. But if you say you
won an Olympic gold medal, it's it's immediately recognized as
a you know, a sporting achievement. And I think that's

(01:43:59):
the biggest thing, you know that within the sport. The
Olympics probably isn't as big as badminton and burley, but
it's you know, the Olympics are the Olympics and then
and you know for that reason, they're just very very special.

Speaker 2 (01:44:12):
Where do you keep your Olympic medals.

Speaker 24 (01:44:16):
At the moment, they're they're in a drawer in a
safe place. Yeah, every now and again I get asked
to bring them out and show people and uh yeah,
they know they're very special a bit.

Speaker 2 (01:44:36):
So what takes up most of your time now?

Speaker 24 (01:44:39):
Well, I'm back training race horses for the moment anyway,
so yeah, we're you know, mornings start early, horses have
to be fared, worked and everything else. So in that respect,
my life hasn't really changed so and and horses always
will have a have a part of my life. That's

(01:44:59):
we're looking to maybe slow down a bit from next
year on, so we will we will see, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:45:07):
And in Olympic Games rushing up fast with a questrian
obviously there and keywis competing. Will you be following along
the you know, the the equestrian events in Paris?

Speaker 8 (01:45:19):
Oh?

Speaker 22 (01:45:19):
Absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 24 (01:45:20):
I mean you know I love watching the Olympics and
and well I'll be again watching out for the New
Zealand team and keeping fingers cross that you know, we
have a good a good Olympics. The equestrian team, I
obviously know them all really well, so I'll certainly be

(01:45:42):
watching out for them as well. It'll be it'll be
great in Paris. It'll be a wonderful, wonderful specle They'll
do it really well.

Speaker 2 (01:45:50):
Yeah, I bet they will, so Mark. It's been so interesting, educational, entertaining,
informative and a real pleasure to catch up with you,
one of our truly great Olympians. Thank you for taking
time to chat to us on our road to Paris.
All the best for what lies ahead. Thanks for your time, pleasure.
Thank you very much, No, thank you, Sir Mark. Sir

(01:46:10):
Mark Todd there, seven time Olympian, five time Olympic medallist
and double gold medal winning three day event aboard Charisma
in nineteen eighty four and again in nineteen eighty eight.
Our Road to Paris feature continues next Sunday after two
o'clock as we continue to highlight and remember some of

(01:46:31):
the great Olympic moments in our history. Bang on two
thirty on weekends Sport back after.

Speaker 1 (01:46:35):
This the tough Questions Off the Turf Weekends for It
with Jason Hine and GJ. Gardnerholmes, New Zealand's most trusted
home builder news Dog.

Speaker 2 (01:46:46):
Just on twenty seven to three. Couple of texts here
on Mark Todd Pony. Mark Todd was the subject of
the very first New Zealand edition of This Is Your Life,
hosted by Bob Parker. Thanks Terry appreciate that and text
are here. Jason, I'll never forget that moment when the
American horse dropped the rail. In nineteen eighty four, we
were in the sixth form common room at Saint pat
silver Stream Saturday morning. We had scool on Saturday mornings

(01:47:08):
and we just went crazy when Mark Todd won the gold. Screaming, yelling,
jumping up and down. Great sporting memory from nineteen eighty four.
Thanks George Yea. I remember it pretty clearly as well. Yeah,
I do remember it being a Saturday morning here in
New Zealand. A quick update on the cricket in the
Super Eights Afghanistan against Australia. Afghanistan kind of stumbled a
bit after they got through one hundred and eighteen without loss,

(01:47:30):
but then only got to one forty eight for six.
So one forty nine is Australia's target, but they're twenty
one for two. Trevis Head out for a duck and
Mitchell Marsh the captain dismissed for twelve. David Warner Glenn
Maxwell together twenty one for two and the fourth over
Australia chasing one forty nine to beat Afghanistan and the
Super sixers and we've had a couple of people asking

(01:47:52):
about Jared's call. Yeah, this was a call that we played.
We played last hour when we were talking about the Warriors.
There was actually a call from six years ago, back
in twenty eighteen when the Warriors lost to the Typeton's.
I was on the air on Radio Sport back then
and Jared called up the next day.

Speaker 8 (01:48:12):
You just wanted to quickly to say a few words.

Speaker 9 (01:48:14):
We're going to Warriors.

Speaker 6 (01:48:15):
Yeah, I've start with this boom boom, boom boom.

Speaker 20 (01:48:22):
You're playing the Titans, the Titans, Titan. It was crap, soft,
lazy week heartless.

Speaker 5 (01:48:33):
He was no mental fortitude.

Speaker 20 (01:48:35):
It was soft boom boom boom, awful persis.

Speaker 5 (01:48:42):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:48:44):
So I was reminded of that last night. I'm glad
that they kept it after all these years. Six years
on twenty five to three, we'll take another break when
we come back. Wayne Goldsmith out Coaching Guru on the
best approach for a new coach going into an established environment.

Speaker 1 (01:48:59):
The biggest things in sport are on Weekend Sport with
Jason PyME and GJ Jubnos, Zealand's most trusted home builder
news Dogs.

Speaker 2 (01:49:08):
That'd be twenty two to three every month or so
we get the benefit of the wisdom of coaching guru
Wayne Goldsmith, who has shaped the thinking of coaches around
the world from elite through to grassroots, and with Scott
Robertson set to name his first all black squad tomorrow,
I wanted to get Wayne's views on the concept of
a new coach taking on an established team. How should

(01:49:29):
they approach that, should they bring their own ideas but
also go with what's been working under the previous coach
and what is the best balance to strike Wayne Goldsmith
as well as Wayne, when I asked you about this topic,
you sent back three possible approaches for us to examine,
one by one. So let's go through those. The first
is complete change, out with the old and within you

(01:49:50):
if you like, What are the pros and cons of
complete change?

Speaker 10 (01:49:54):
First of all, think the temptation is, particularly if you're
an inexperienced coach, is to say, I want to make
this my team right here, right now. I want to
impress them, and I want to make a big impact
on this place. I want to make a revolutionary change,
and anything that's currently there.

Speaker 8 (01:50:15):
Is wrong and it has to go now.

Speaker 10 (01:50:17):
You could argue, all right, well, there's a great line,
which is start the way you want to finish. Start
the way you want to finish, which says, if I'm
all about a philosophy, or if I'm about a philosophy
of player unity, then you.

Speaker 8 (01:50:33):
Don't build that over a year or two years.

Speaker 10 (01:50:35):
You say, first session, first moment, we leave our values
or we live what we believe in. I can see
the advantage of that. However, I always say the coaches,
remember we stand on the shoulders of giants and the
people who've built this team and this culture, which is
sustained for one hundred years. We've got it at an

(01:50:55):
eighty five to ninety percent winning record or something like that.
The things that have built the team to be the
icon and the great team that it is. Not everything's
bad about that, not anything's wrong.

Speaker 7 (01:51:06):
I think a lot of.

Speaker 10 (01:51:07):
Young coaches come in and assume that anyone with gray
hair doesn't know what they're doing, and anything that is
before the year of Google is wrong. So I think
the smart coaches take a breath and say, yes, I
want revolution, but ultimately make it more like evolution, systematic, slow, methodical,

(01:51:28):
and permanent.

Speaker 2 (01:51:29):
So that leads into the second possible approach you've seen,
which is partial change. You're bringing a few trusted staff
members and make some subtle but important changes. So might
that work better for Razor with an established and as
you've pointed out, historically successful team.

Speaker 10 (01:51:47):
This one gets really complicated, Pini, because so if you're
in an AFL team, Super Ragby team, if you're in
an NRL team and you're come in and you say, man,
I want to change this. We could be remarkable. If
I can get this happening, and this happening, we could
do some really amazing things. So you go to this
and say, look, I want to get rid of these

(01:52:07):
six players, these members of staff. I know that, and
the CEOs is they're all under contract for another two years.
To make the changes you want to change, and the
changes you want to make right here and right now,
it's going to cost us five million dollars, so we're
not going to do it. So sometimes these other forces,
other than just performance or or values or team goals.

(01:52:31):
Sometimes you got to consider where are we in terms
of the contract cycle, and it's going to take two
or three years for me to build the team that
I'm really looking for. Very very typically, coaches will come in.
No matter how good you are, you can't do it
by yourself. So very typically a coach will come in
and go, What I really need is two or three

(01:52:52):
trusted lieutenants who know my philosophies, who know what I'm
on about, who know what I'm trying to achieve, and
they can be an extension of my philosophies as I
build those longer term changes. So inevitably, I think this
second option, the systemic slow gradual change, is forced on

(01:53:13):
professional coaches, particularly going to contractual obligations.

Speaker 2 (01:53:17):
All right, we'll get to the third approach in a moment.
But regardless of what you approach a new coach takes,
how important does it weanne for that coach to get
the key players in the squad, the captain for example,
the experienced ones, the ones that drive the culture. How
important is it for the coach, the incoming new coach
to get key players on side?

Speaker 9 (01:53:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (01:53:37):
Really important. That's the first discussion you would normally have
is to sit down with the team leader and talk
to them about their game, what they had to achieve,
and then start to spread what we call that idea
of the vision. And you know, I love talking about
this bonny, because they call a vision a vision because
you can see it. And the great coaches will walk

(01:54:00):
into a program and go, I can see this all
black team, this rugby team, this AFL team, this netball team,
this trigger team. I can see them at the next
World Championships. I can see them undefeated for the last
thirty games. I see us winning to a power game
or a speed game, or a skill game or all

(01:54:20):
those things. The job then to the coach is to
look at that team leader or team leaders and get
them to see the same vision with the same detail
and clarity that they do, because you know, ultimately we're
a species of storytellers, and the coaches who've got a
clear vision and can tell the story of their future

(01:54:42):
so that the players go, you know what, I can
see that too. That's what we could get a coach.

Speaker 8 (01:54:47):
I get a coach.

Speaker 10 (01:54:49):
That's an incredibly important thing is to sit down with
those leaders and say, I see a vision of what
we can all achieve together and sell that vision to
the player groups so they then carry that forward and
help the rest of the team to then buy into
the same vision.

Speaker 2 (01:55:06):
There's complete change, there's partial change, and the third option
has not much change, but having a long term plan
to progressively turn the team into your team. Is there
any danger, though, Wayne, of a new coach coming in
and then not actually changing or doing a heck of
a lot.

Speaker 10 (01:55:24):
Now, a lot of times coaches will come in and
this comes from the corporate world. In the corporate world,
I'll say, what are you in the first hundred days?

Speaker 8 (01:55:32):
Nothing?

Speaker 10 (01:55:32):
Just listen. And I don't know that it is going
to apply in high performance sport because you know, it's
like the media scrutiny, particularly on your team and the
All Blacks, is going to be unbelievable. Anything less than
an incredibly strong performance and a forty point win is
not going to satisfy the media and to be questions

(01:55:53):
about treating you know, you know exactly what is likely
to come. So it's very very tempting to do what
we call RATV runs on the board. It's very tempting
to throw everything you've got and doing something different and
special or unique to kick off and people go oho,
these guys really do have some changes, they do have

(01:56:13):
a vision, they do have a plan in mind. Standing
back and just watching and listening for the first hundred
days might work in an office environment. It doesn't really
work in high performance. The other thing with not making
a lot of change is that boards and executives are
notoriously lacking impatience. If they don't see some genuine change

(01:56:37):
and some real impact in the short period of time,
they're not going to give you a long term I mean,
I was talking to an NURL coach a few weeks
ago and he said to me, he said, you know what,
if you had five years where you were confident you
retain your job, you could probably build a pretty good
winning team. But you don't get five years. You basically

(01:56:57):
get one season and about ten games before they've made
them mind up on how you're going to go and
whether or not you're the right coach, even though you've
got an underpinning model that you'd like to build for
sustained success. The reality of professional sport is you've got
to win in the short term to get that confidence

(01:57:17):
in buy in that you know what you're doing. And
I think the smart coaches again, they do things like
that Pinty. They go, I'll get a really good development
team over here. I have a good junior development program
over here working away behind the scenes. But I'm going
to get some runs on the board early to get
some immediate buy in from the people I met it,
or I won't get the opportunity to do it long term.

Speaker 2 (01:57:39):
And you talk about getting those runs on the board
or getting the buy in from, you know, from the corporates,
the administrators, those that are doing the hiring and firing,
But what about the fans as well? How key is
it to get the fans on side quickly and what
is the best way of doing that.

Speaker 10 (01:57:53):
The way to get fans on board is to win.
If they come in and on the first game, you know,
again talking specifically about the All Blacks, if there's been
multiple changes, but they're playing a great if they're really
aggressive and attack, if their defense is strong, even if
the performance is not quite there, the fans go, you

(01:58:14):
know what, we're on the right track. If they see
something that's completely opposite to what they're going to expect,
then they just have a few question marks. I think
they'll buy in progressively, but nothing gets offAnd buy in
more than winning. And how many times have we seen
in the last two or three years, particularly in the
NRL is probably the caldron for that At the moment,

(01:58:37):
is that coaches are caught off and one win or
two wins away from complete board player and fan buy in.
I think the best example I can think of was
Newcastle last year when Newcastle were going terribly and the
coach was quite literally from all reports, one loss away
from no job. And then they turn it around and

(01:58:59):
Ponger starts playing like an absolute legend and they win
a whole bunch on the trip, they make it to
the Semis and the coach's job is saving There was
one win or one loss away from losing all support,
and it can be that thickle. But you know what,
I think fans will buy in if they can see
some signs. The other thing is you've got to get

(01:59:19):
media onside. You've got to have a great media person
in the club and a great media team that are
making sure that the messages about the changes you're making
are being conveyed correctly and being put out there in
the media and social media, so that you're controlling the
narrative and the discussion to a degree about why you're

(01:59:41):
making the changes, what impact it's likely to take, if
it's going to take a bit of time, tell all
the fans and share the fans the vision and the
story that you've got so that they're aware of their
expectations that are aligned with yours. Keep them updated informed,
particularly in the euro social media right.

Speaker 2 (01:59:58):
And it's a rare coach these days who has just
the one job, so across their career it's quite possible
they'll be going into a number of front environments as
a new coach. So does the same model, the three
approaches you've outlined, does the same one apply to every
situation a coach will find themselves or is it more
likely that they'll just you know, cut their cloth to

(02:00:21):
suit if you like.

Speaker 10 (02:00:23):
Yeah, a smart coach comes in and before they've even
taken on the job, they've looked to see what sort
of a coach they need to take and what genuinely
happens pliny. When you go for a job interview and
I've been on some panels, I'm on another one later
this morning. When you're in a job panel for interviewing
a head coach, the most common thing they ask a

(02:00:43):
head coach to do is to present their vision for
the sustainable success.

Speaker 9 (02:00:48):
Of the club.

Speaker 15 (02:00:50):
Put up on the board.

Speaker 10 (02:00:51):
Do a presentation, tell the interview committee what it is,
you're going to do with this group. The problem I
find plant is quite often the panels that are interviewing
the head coaches, they're not really sure what they're looking for,
so they just go win lost for good. They look
at a coach who's got sixty percent ideally have a
long period of time, which is pretty good. It's a

(02:01:13):
winning record, win loss records. They go for that rather
than say, what sort of coach do we need now? So,
do we need a coach who's going to stabilize, make
things flow along nicely, and make systematic change because basically
we've got it right, We just need we've got to
coach you retired or a caase that's moved on for
some other reason. Do we need a revolutionary coach? Do

(02:01:36):
we need an absolute well, we used to say an
old times a head kicker. Do we not literally kick
anyone said, let's be clear on that. But do we
need somebody who's going to come in change everything, be
really strong and clear on their values and make widespread change.
I think one of the issues is that quite often clubs,
executives and boards don't really know what they're looking for.

(02:01:59):
They just gave a win loss, whereas I think coaches
will often look at it and say, with this player,
with this budget, with this board, with these facilities, with
this structure, what am I going to be able to do?
How do I approach this problem?

Speaker 9 (02:02:15):
How do I attack it?

Speaker 10 (02:02:17):
Well?

Speaker 2 (02:02:17):
I guess we're about to find out Scott Robertson's approach
to the All Blacks head coaching job. We'll get an
idea of which of the approaches or a blend of
all three that he employs. Wayne is always so informative
to get your expertise and your analysis. As always, Thanks
so much for joining us across New Zealand today.

Speaker 9 (02:02:36):
Mate.

Speaker 10 (02:02:36):
I think your guys are so talented. I think my
grandmother could probably coach them. And I go pretty good.
This's got so much talent all over the park. But
we will be exciting and interesting to see what happens.

Speaker 2 (02:02:48):
Good on you, Wayne. Thanks indeed, Wayne Goldsmith find out
more about his approach to coaching WG coaching dot com
eight to three News Talks.

Speaker 1 (02:02:56):
He'd be breaking down the Hail Mary's and the Epic
fails weekend sport with Jason Paine News Talk ZENB three.

Speaker 2 (02:03:06):
That's us for another weekend toim beverage on the radio
after three o'clock, but the We Can Collective We're back
tomorrow night on Sports Talk. Don't forget the All Black
Squad is named at five thirty tomorrow afternoon. We'll have
a full breakdown of it, of course, and lots of
analysis and conversation between seven and eight tomorrow night on
Sports Talk. Look forward to chatting with you then, huge
thanks to Andy McDonald for producing the show. Was always

(02:03:28):
thank you for listening in and taking part if that's
what you chose to do. Exit song today, Well with
the Blues welcoming back the Super Rugby Trophy to their
cabinet after twenty one years and Vern Cotter being the
master mind behind it all, I've gone to the theme
song of the nineteen seventies American television sitcom Welcome Back Cotter,

(02:03:48):
John Sebastian and welcome back.

Speaker 12 (02:03:51):
See the Mark Jose Him, gun Him on the Spot.

Speaker 13 (02:03:57):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Teazer Lot, welcome, listen,
got him, monspun.

Speaker 2 (02:04:14):
Love tzer lot, got him, Moms bo back.

Speaker 13 (02:04:20):
Welcome, Welcome back, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welome, welcome, Welcome.

Speaker 1 (02:04:36):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live
to news talks it be weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio

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