Despite some rocky moments, the first All Blacks test of the Scott Robertson era ended on a high note.
The team trailed 15-10 midway through the second half, before two Damian McKenzie penalties put the hosts back in front and eventually won them the match.
Former All Black and match commentator Paul Miller joined Piney to discuss the team's victory over England.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from Newstalks NB tease one of the years in the.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Books that runs into two point five stud their fanland
about Penry or Blacks holding God, Holy God, there's a
summer out in the show. But the old plas who
when that's first test of the year, pen only holding
on a run sold it properly. Was a man that
put the pennery and now the old Blacks they just
(00:35):
to get it into touch. Everyone needs to take a
eighth race. Damien McKenzie text texts it at the touch
and you we're right of All Black Rugby begins with
an old fashioned test Man Time Wrestle News Even sixteen
in for fifteen full time at full Side Bar Stadium
(00:56):
in dnedon the All Blacks WNT buy.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
What All Black sixteen England fifteen. That was Elliott Smith
on the call last night. Alongside him in the commentary
box was former All Black number eight Paul Miller providing
expert analysis. He joins us now having given it the
overnight test, Paul, good to chat to you. What did
you make in general terms of the All Blacks first
outing of the year.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Well, some might suggest there was a bit of bit
of rustiness, especially at the start. There's a bit of
you know, it took a while for the all blecks
sort of to connect, but one thing was definitely apparent,
and that was both the physical attributes from both sides.
I think also England. I think they they proved to
be more physically dominant around that kind of rock area.
(01:40):
All Blacks were guilty of not securing and not protecting
the ruck sort of ball for TJ, PIRI and AA
initially until sort of Philly Christy got on the unfortunate
injury there to TJ. But they'll need to tidy up
those aspects around there. The direction of both Damien McKenzie
and I thought Stempire Feder had a good hit out.
You know, some might say his debatable call at fullback,
(02:03):
but look, everyone sort of took theach answers. I think
the biggest one of the other biggest aspects was their lineouts.
They sort of they sort of fell off their midway
through that second half, especially when more come on there too,
So they'll be looking to tie up those aspects definitely
for that second test.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Just on the physicality that England brought that wouldn't have
been any surprise to the All Blacks. They almost they
came as advertised, didn't they.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Yeah, it's funny how the sort of rugby's kind of evolved.
Initially it was it was a lot of kicking, you know,
English style kicking first five halfbacks, you know, kicking for
that territory game. But it's sort of gone back to
the bigger, powerful, dominant, physical ball runners and particularly on
the defense as well, like England were very, very clinical,
(02:51):
very a student on tackling low and it's just ensuring
that they dominated that collision type area. So all globally
teams are now sort of going back to that physical,
the big ball running guys now, so that's sort of
a pu You need to get that acendency of that
game line, the advantage line to you know, get yourself
(03:12):
into that game. And that's more apparent now nowadays.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Who's stood out for you in a black jersey?
Speaker 4 (03:19):
I had had to take a while to think, but
I think the work that Dalton Populi did and until
here they're the leadership of of Scott Barrett, they do
go through a power of work. It's it's quite unseen
to the to the public eye, but you know, you're
sort of take an account like they do a lot
of work around those rucks, rocky areas, So in my
mind they proved that sort of plog in that engine room.
(03:42):
And also Drordy Barrett, like he's he was immense He's
just grown into that second five position there and just
just just as natural ability to you read that game,
his kicking ability as well. But mind you had a
good director inside and with Damian McKenzie, So for my mind,
it was probably those three players.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
What did you make of I'm going to talk about
the timing out of the kick late in the game
in a moment, but Damien McKenzie's overall performance at first five, well.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
He kind of he kind of shifted well with Stephen
Piafeeda there at fallback, so at times, you know they
would sort of chop and change and Dame Muckens is
excellent and they they utilize him very well, and especially
on that counter attack, so every time there was a
defensive play from the All Blacks, Damian McKenzie got himself
into that ideal position. So his reading of the game
is exceptional, so he was able to get himself back
(04:34):
and obviously the more space and the more awareness he has,
is more dangerous he is with that ball in hand,
and you know you need Dame muckenzie ball and handed
at a space and obviously that frees up his wingers
as well. Mind you, Mark Dalaire and Sevy Reese got
into a power of where it right by the rocks here.
But yeah, Dame McKenzie, from my mind, you know, very
utilized in that first five position. But also you know
(04:54):
I was able to step up in that defensive quality
as well.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
So late in the game he had the chance to
kick a penalty which would have taken the All Blacks
out to a four point lead. He was timed out.
Sixty seconds had elapsed between when the All Blacks indicated
they were taking the shot and when Damien Well would
have kicked the ball. What did you make of a
ball Well?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
In the commentary box with Elliott and yourself, obviously we
did hear that twenty second call by the referee and
he was going through his pre kicking routine where he
looks up to the post, looks down, looks up again,
has a smile, and by that time you know that
was probably twenty seconds had passed. So you granted every
player knows the letter of the law now, so it's
(05:36):
just probably up to him now to kind of find
a new sort of technical, new style to go through
with it. But the other aspect we talked about Piney
was maybe get the shot clock going on on the
old scoreboard just so the crowd can get into it
as well.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
One hundred percent, absolutely, one hundred percent agree with that
without question. Yeah, And I mean Scott Robertson even said afterwards,
just got to get Mark Robinson on for next week
so the same thing doesn't happen again. Just on on Razor,
could you see his fingerprints on this game and his
first matches All Black head coach.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Well habit. You know, he's got that winning habit, and
the All Blacks have sort of grown that. We're all
you know, that's part of their DNA, that that winning habit.
If not, you know, they performed pretty pretty well most
at most games. So you know, his his take on
that game or his his footprint is left with the
(06:28):
ability to utilize an expensive context with with the backs
that they have, but also making sure that work's done
up front. Now he'll be looking at that game intensely,
and I would say they need to tidy up a
few aspects, particularly at the start around that rocky area
as I said before, But like they've always, they're going
to breed confidence and I think he's a coach that
(06:49):
will just say have a crack, give it a give
it a good goal. But at times maybe it was
overused at times, particularly around that halfway there were trying
about six or seven phases they weren't getting any with
so that resort back to that we kicked through. So
but you know, it's it's it's that's his style, oh
I think. And it's it's allowing the players to sort
of express themselves. So that's kind of what his nature
(07:11):
is as a coach.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Do you think this was an opportunity lost for England
or do you think it'll motivate them to go to
Eden Park and break what is a long standing you know,
fortress for All Blacks rugby in terms of test matches
there or do you think last night was their chance
to beat the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Well, every every chance that let England play All Blacks
is always a chance for them to beat the All Blacks,
but they all go away ruining. I think they completely
dominated the All Blacks around that You know the collision
type areas, so that they'll be taking confidence from their
aspect and taking them too Eden Park. But you're right
that Eden Park is a fortress and not many international
(07:48):
teams come away with a win from there, so they
probably will be ruining the probably missed opportunities, maybe a
couple of miss penalty kicks there by Marcus Smith as well,
you know, to keep that momentum going. But look, they'll
they'll be using that confidence and they'll be they'll be
coming to obviously not just play well, but winning the
next Test match against the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
And just you talked about, you've talked a couple of
times about England dominating those collision areas. How do you
address that if you're the All Blacks coaching team.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
I think it's their line speed England. We're getting off
the line very very fast, more so than the All
Black center. It was kind of you know, you get
a good view of where we were in the commentary
box and you could just to see at times England
were more ruthless, they were more urgent just to get
off that line, and that sort of put that All
Blacks under pressure, especially those first three or four phases
(08:39):
and they were trying to do the back door passes
as well, which England read that beautifully. They would think
it was this second five centers would just come up
and just nullify that attacking option. A couple of times
they tried the overpasses which did work, and they are
to get space on the outside. However, they've just been
to be mindful of that line speed from England. So
in turn All Blacks need to sort of correct their
(09:01):
urgency as well. And I'd like to see them chop
tackle a bit more because at times they were all
be going a bit too high, which gained the England
a mentor advantage line.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yep, plenty of food for thought for the All Blacks
coaches in the week head great stuff. Paul enjoyed being
part of the commentary team with you last night. Thanks
for joining us today as well.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Nah, it was a pleasure and apprivileged to Piney. Thank
you very much, No, thank you mate.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Paul Miller there, former All Blacks number eight and expert
analyst on News Talks RB's commentaries here in Dunedin. You've
heard his thoughts. Your chance to react to what you
heard there or what you saw last night. I eight
hundred eighty ten eighty, as always is the number pick
up on anything you like, find a play you want
to give a rap to simply give us an overall
assessment of the first Test of twenty twenty four, the
(09:42):
first Test of Razors rain lines are open for your
thoughts and analysis. I eight hundred eighty ten eighty, as
I said at the top of the show, a real
test match. I went home afterwards and watched the Wallabies
play Wales last night and the intensity of the skill level,
the ferocity of the contest was nowhere near what we
(10:03):
saw in Duned and England are a proper rugby side
in case we needed reminding, one that came within a
point of reaching the Rugby World Cup Final, that beat
Ireland in the Six Nations, and that very nearly beat
the All Blacks in New Zealand last night. For just
the third time ever and the first time in twenty
one years, we knew what their strength were. This was
(10:24):
no surprise close combat if one off rugby with ball
in hand, a smothering defense designed to deny the All
Blacks any space to weave any magic in midfield that
leaves gaps out wide. Of course, if you can find them,
and certainly said Ese's try came from the tactic designed
to combat that, the cross field kick. But England were
also pretty expensive when the occasion presented itself, way more
(10:46):
than I expected them to be. I was really impressed
with the general play of England. First five Marcus Smith
a real triple threat. He can kick, pass, run as
the fancy takes him. The only blot on his copy
book last night was his goalkicking. He left eight points
out there and in a one point game that is
obviously not great at toji also excellent for England. Best
(11:09):
on park for the All Blacks for me was Patrick
Twey pillot to hard to believe. He was in major
doubt for this series, but his all round play accuracy
in hiss, core, rolls, ball carries, line out, takes, strong
tackling excellent. The obvious talking point though, the obvious talking
point Damien McKenzie's penalty attempt being timed out. Now the rule,
(11:30):
just for clarity, here's the rule. From the moment you
signal your intent to take a kick at goal, you
have sixty seconds. It's not from when the penalty's blown.
It's from when you signal your intent. So when you
say to the referee we're going to have a shot,
and the referee basically points at the posts and that's
when the sixty second starts. I think we're probably all
(11:51):
okay with the rule. It's designed to stop time wasting,
especially Layton games. It's a good idea, but surely to
goodness there needs to be a shot clock on the
big screen, a visual cueue, not only for the kicker,
but for us as well. Every other sport that uses
shot clocks of varying degrees. Think about basketball with its
(12:13):
twenty four seconds to take a shot, Tennis for servs,
cricket for your DRS review. Anything where there is a
time limit for something to happen has a visual demonstration
of that on the big screen at the venue. So
we all know why wasn't there won there last night.
There simply must be a visual indicator for the sixty seconds.
(12:35):
Absolutely no brainer, So don't be surprised to see it
at Eden Park next weekend. And to give Damien Mackenzie
his due, he didn't complain afterwards, he owned it and
he said he just has to make adjustments. He has
to be quickt Look, I've watched it back and the
referees bang on with his timing. From the moment he
points to the posts to indicate the kick, it is
(12:56):
exactly sixty seconds before he blows again for the timed
out call. It took sixty rather twenty seconds to get
the tea out there. That was a bit of an
issue and Damie mckenn he doesn't hit the ball on
the tee to his satisfaction, until forty seconds and from
there he's up against the clock and so.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Approved for more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen
live to News Talk set B weekends from midday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from Newstalks NB tease one of the years in the.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Books that runs into two point five stud their fanland
about Penry or Blacks holding God, Holy God, there's a
summer out in the show. But the old plas who
when that's first test of the year, pen only holding
on a run sold it properly. Was a man that
put the pennery and now the old Blacks they just
(00:35):
to get it into touch. Everyone needs to take a
eighth race. Damien McKenzie text texts it at the touch
and you we're right of All Black Rugby begins with
an old fashioned test Man Time Wrestle News Even sixteen
in for fifteen full time at full Side Bar Stadium
(00:56):
in dnedon the All Blacks WNT buy.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
What All Black sixteen England fifteen. That was Elliott Smith
on the call last night. Alongside him in the commentary
box was former All Black number eight Paul Miller providing
expert analysis. He joins us now having given it the
overnight test, Paul, good to chat to you. What did
you make in general terms of the All Blacks first
outing of the year.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Well, some might suggest there was a bit of bit
of rustiness, especially at the start. There's a bit of
you know, it took a while for the all blecks
sort of to connect, but one thing was definitely apparent,
and that was both the physical attributes from both sides.
I think also England. I think they they proved to
be more physically dominant around that kind of rock area.
(01:40):
All Blacks were guilty of not securing and not protecting
the ruck sort of ball for TJ, PIRI and AA
initially until sort of Philly Christy got on the unfortunate
injury there to TJ. But they'll need to tidy up
those aspects around there. The direction of both Damien McKenzie
and I thought Stempire Feder had a good hit out.
You know, some might say his debatable call at fullback,
(02:03):
but look, everyone sort of took theach answers. I think
the biggest one of the other biggest aspects was their lineouts.
They sort of they sort of fell off their midway
through that second half, especially when more come on there too,
So they'll be looking to tie up those aspects definitely
for that second test.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Just on the physicality that England brought that wouldn't have
been any surprise to the All Blacks. They almost they
came as advertised, didn't they.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Yeah, it's funny how the sort of rugby's kind of evolved.
Initially it was it was a lot of kicking, you know,
English style kicking first five halfbacks, you know, kicking for
that territory game. But it's sort of gone back to
the bigger, powerful, dominant, physical ball runners and particularly on
the defense as well, like England were very, very clinical,
(02:51):
very a student on tackling low and it's just ensuring
that they dominated that collision type area. So all globally
teams are now sort of going back to that physical,
the big ball running guys now, so that's sort of
a pu You need to get that acendency of that
game line, the advantage line to you know, get yourself
(03:12):
into that game. And that's more apparent now nowadays.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Who's stood out for you in a black jersey?
Speaker 4 (03:19):
I had had to take a while to think, but
I think the work that Dalton Populi did and until
here they're the leadership of of Scott Barrett, they do
go through a power of work. It's it's quite unseen
to the to the public eye, but you know, you're
sort of take an account like they do a lot
of work around those rucks, rocky areas, So in my
mind they proved that sort of plog in that engine room.
(03:42):
And also Drordy Barrett, like he's he was immense He's
just grown into that second five position there and just
just just as natural ability to you read that game,
his kicking ability as well. But mind you had a
good director inside and with Damian McKenzie, So for my mind,
it was probably those three players.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
What did you make of I'm going to talk about
the timing out of the kick late in the game
in a moment, but Damien McKenzie's overall performance at first five, well.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
He kind of he kind of shifted well with Stephen
Piafeeda there at fallback, so at times, you know they
would sort of chop and change and Dame Muckens is
excellent and they they utilize him very well, and especially
on that counter attack, so every time there was a
defensive play from the All Blacks, Damian McKenzie got himself
into that ideal position. So his reading of the game
is exceptional, so he was able to get himself back
(04:34):
and obviously the more space and the more awareness he has,
is more dangerous he is with that ball in hand,
and you know you need Dame muckenzie ball and handed
at a space and obviously that frees up his wingers
as well. Mind you, Mark Dalaire and Sevy Reese got
into a power of where it right by the rocks here.
But yeah, Dame McKenzie, from my mind, you know, very
utilized in that first five position. But also you know
(04:54):
I was able to step up in that defensive quality
as well.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
So late in the game he had the chance to
kick a penalty which would have taken the All Blacks
out to a four point lead. He was timed out.
Sixty seconds had elapsed between when the All Blacks indicated
they were taking the shot and when Damien Well would
have kicked the ball. What did you make of a
ball Well?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
In the commentary box with Elliott and yourself, obviously we
did hear that twenty second call by the referee and
he was going through his pre kicking routine where he
looks up to the post, looks down, looks up again,
has a smile, and by that time you know that
was probably twenty seconds had passed. So you granted every
player knows the letter of the law now, so it's
(05:36):
just probably up to him now to kind of find
a new sort of technical, new style to go through
with it. But the other aspect we talked about Piney
was maybe get the shot clock going on on the
old scoreboard just so the crowd can get into it
as well.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
One hundred percent, absolutely, one hundred percent agree with that
without question. Yeah, And I mean Scott Robertson even said afterwards,
just got to get Mark Robinson on for next week
so the same thing doesn't happen again. Just on on Razor,
could you see his fingerprints on this game and his
first matches All Black head coach.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
Well habit. You know, he's got that winning habit, and
the All Blacks have sort of grown that. We're all
you know, that's part of their DNA, that that winning habit.
If not, you know, they performed pretty pretty well most
at most games. So you know, his his take on
that game or his his footprint is left with the
(06:28):
ability to utilize an expensive context with with the backs
that they have, but also making sure that work's done
up front. Now he'll be looking at that game intensely,
and I would say they need to tidy up a
few aspects, particularly at the start around that rocky area
as I said before, But like they've always, they're going
to breed confidence and I think he's a coach that
(06:49):
will just say have a crack, give it a give
it a good goal. But at times maybe it was
overused at times, particularly around that halfway there were trying
about six or seven phases they weren't getting any with
so that resort back to that we kicked through. So
but you know, it's it's it's that's his style, oh
I think. And it's it's allowing the players to sort
of express themselves. So that's kind of what his nature
(07:11):
is as a coach.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Do you think this was an opportunity lost for England
or do you think it'll motivate them to go to
Eden Park and break what is a long standing you know,
fortress for All Blacks rugby in terms of test matches
there or do you think last night was their chance
to beat the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Well, every every chance that let England play All Blacks
is always a chance for them to beat the All Blacks,
but they all go away ruining. I think they completely
dominated the All Blacks around that You know the collision
type areas, so that they'll be taking confidence from their
aspect and taking them too Eden Park. But you're right
that Eden Park is a fortress and not many international
(07:48):
teams come away with a win from there, so they
probably will be ruining the probably missed opportunities, maybe a
couple of miss penalty kicks there by Marcus Smith as well,
you know, to keep that momentum going. But look, they'll
they'll be using that confidence and they'll be they'll be
coming to obviously not just play well, but winning the
next Test match against the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
And just you talked about, you've talked a couple of
times about England dominating those collision areas. How do you
address that if you're the All Blacks coaching team.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
I think it's their line speed England. We're getting off
the line very very fast, more so than the All
Black center. It was kind of you know, you get
a good view of where we were in the commentary
box and you could just to see at times England
were more ruthless, they were more urgent just to get
off that line, and that sort of put that All
Blacks under pressure, especially those first three or four phases
(08:39):
and they were trying to do the back door passes
as well, which England read that beautifully. They would think
it was this second five centers would just come up
and just nullify that attacking option. A couple of times
they tried the overpasses which did work, and they are
to get space on the outside. However, they've just been
to be mindful of that line speed from England. So
in turn All Blacks need to sort of correct their
(09:01):
urgency as well. And I'd like to see them chop
tackle a bit more because at times they were all
be going a bit too high, which gained the England
a mentor advantage line.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yep, plenty of food for thought for the All Blacks
coaches in the week head great stuff. Paul enjoyed being
part of the commentary team with you last night. Thanks
for joining us today as well.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Nah, it was a pleasure and apprivileged to Piney. Thank
you very much, No, thank you mate.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Paul Miller there, former All Blacks number eight and expert
analyst on News Talks RB's commentaries here in Dunedin. You've
heard his thoughts. Your chance to react to what you
heard there or what you saw last night. I eight
hundred eighty ten eighty, as always is the number pick
up on anything you like, find a play you want
to give a rap to simply give us an overall
assessment of the first Test of twenty twenty four, the
(09:42):
first Test of Razors rain lines are open for your
thoughts and analysis. I eight hundred eighty ten eighty, as
I said at the top of the show, a real
test match. I went home afterwards and watched the Wallabies
play Wales last night and the intensity of the skill level,
the ferocity of the contest was nowhere near what we
(10:03):
saw in Duned and England are a proper rugby side
in case we needed reminding, one that came within a
point of reaching the Rugby World Cup Final, that beat
Ireland in the Six Nations, and that very nearly beat
the All Blacks in New Zealand last night. For just
the third time ever and the first time in twenty
one years, we knew what their strength were. This was
(10:24):
no surprise close combat if one off rugby with ball
in hand, a smothering defense designed to deny the All
Blacks any space to weave any magic in midfield that
leaves gaps out wide. Of course, if you can find them,
and certainly said Ese's try came from the tactic designed
to combat that, the cross field kick. But England were
also pretty expensive when the occasion presented itself, way more
(10:46):
than I expected them to be. I was really impressed
with the general play of England. First five Marcus Smith
a real triple threat. He can kick, pass, run as
the fancy takes him. The only blot on his copy
book last night was his goalkicking. He left eight points
out there and in a one point game that is
obviously not great at toji also excellent for England. Best
(11:09):
on park for the All Blacks for me was Patrick
Twey pillot to hard to believe. He was in major
doubt for this series, but his all round play accuracy
in hiss, core, rolls, ball carries, line out, takes, strong
tackling excellent. The obvious talking point though, the obvious talking
point Damien McKenzie's penalty attempt being timed out. Now the rule,
(11:30):
just for clarity, here's the rule. From the moment you
signal your intent to take a kick at goal, you
have sixty seconds. It's not from when the penalty's blown.
It's from when you signal your intent. So when you
say to the referee we're going to have a shot,
and the referee basically points at the posts and that's
when the sixty second starts. I think we're probably all
(11:51):
okay with the rule. It's designed to stop time wasting,
especially Layton games. It's a good idea, but surely to
goodness there needs to be a shot clock on the
big screen, a visual cueue, not only for the kicker,
but for us as well. Every other sport that uses
shot clocks of varying degrees. Think about basketball with its
(12:13):
twenty four seconds to take a shot, Tennis for servs,
cricket for your DRS review. Anything where there is a
time limit for something to happen has a visual demonstration
of that on the big screen at the venue. So
we all know why wasn't there won there last night.
There simply must be a visual indicator for the sixty seconds.
(12:35):
Absolutely no brainer, So don't be surprised to see it
at Eden Park next weekend. And to give Damien Mackenzie
his due, he didn't complain afterwards, he owned it and
he said he just has to make adjustments. He has
to be quickt Look, I've watched it back and the
referees bang on with his timing. From the moment he
points to the posts to indicate the kick, it is
(12:56):
exactly sixty seconds before he blows again for the timed
out call. It took sixty rather twenty seconds to get
the tea out there. That was a bit of an
issue and Damie mckenn he doesn't hit the ball on
the tee to his satisfaction, until forty seconds and from
there he's up against the clock and so.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
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