August 24, 2024 • 12 mins
Liam Lawson will have a fulltime drive in Formula One next year, with his Red Bull team appearing to virtually confirm the news.
Red Bull advisor Helmut Marko – in an interview with an Austrian newspaper – says a decision will be made in the next month and the New Zealander will definitely be in one of their cars next year.
Motorsport expert Bob McMurray joined Piney to explain further.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from newstalk edb.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
William Lawson could have a full time drive in Formula
One next year. Red Bull advisor Helmet Marco said this
week he'll either be a part of the main team
next year or the sister outfit RB Now. Liam Lawson's
been acting as a reserve driver for both teams this year.
In an interview with an Austrian newspaper, Helmet Marco said
there'll be a decision next month and Lawson will definitely
(00:36):
be in one of their cars next year. It's the
most definitive confirmation yet that Lawson will be activated as
a full time driver. Reports are suggesting too, he has
an exit clause from Red Bull Racing that he can
use if he doesn't get a full time F one
drive next year. Motor racing expert Bob McMurray is with us. Bob,
are these comments from Helmet Marco a cast iron guarantee
(01:00):
of a full time drive for Liam Lawson in Formula
One next year?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
No, in a word, that comment or those comments by
Marco have been superseded, we could say, by the other
part of the boss of Red Bull Christian Horner, who
said I asked Humbert about it all and he said
Liam will have a seat in Formula one. He didn't
say it would be in a Red Bull car. He
(01:25):
didn't say where it would read. In fact, so Christian
Horner who is now saying, but it could be somewhere else.
There's nothing set in stone. Well, if you go somewhere else,
you haven't got too many options, have you. Mercedes, Well,
they've already got this young Antonelli kid signed up. We
think pretty certain of that. So that's that done. The
only other place really apart from the Red Bull or
(01:47):
the RB setup and come to that in a minute,
is Audi. Now there's been well rumored that the Audi,
which is currently the lowest team, in fact that Scadny
points at all this year lowest ranking team on the ladder.
They have been courting that, we believe Liam Law's and
somehow or other for some time, but of course Red
(02:09):
Bull in the form of Hauna or Marco, have been
holding him back from doing anything because he has a contract,
as you say, until the end of this year, and
if they don't give him a drive of some sort
by the end of September, then he's free to leave,
so they may be, I don't know, just dancing around
the maypole here with him, and I think they're being
(02:30):
exceptionally unfair and exceptionally cruel to somebody who career will
be ruined if he doesn't get a drive somewhere next year.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, that was my gut reaction to Bob was that
this doesn't seem very fair on Liam Lawson. He's been
given half promises and I guess you know, had you know,
conversations with I'm sure a lot of people about what
his future might hold. But he needs he needs the
proof in that pudding. If he were to take a
seat with Red Bull, whose seat would he take?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Well, once again, they're being very cagy on what they've got.
The only person that does not have a contract between
the RB team which is Visa whatever they call it,
and the Red Bull team, which is Rastapan's team, the
only person that doesn't actually have a contract for next
year is Daniel Ricardo. Now, he hasn't covered himself in
any glory this season at all. He in fact, today
(03:25):
or last night, he qualified well below his teammate Yuki Sinoda,
and that's the first thing he has to do keep
out qualifying him hasn't done that. Ricardo is not going anywhere.
The only place he can go is to stay in
the RB team. The other person, of course that's in
the Red Bulls set up is Perez. He is constantly
being threatened or you could say, with losing his seat
(03:50):
because he's not performing as well as he should. He
does have a contract the next year, but Red bull
and contracts, you can just you know, there's less than
toilet paper. In fact, the other person, interestingly that may
leave is for Staffan himself. The rumors still persist that
(04:10):
for Staffan is being courted for Mercedes. Now I can't
see that happening for next year, but those rumors are there.
So where can Liam go? I don't know. I've got
no idea. So then by them saying that he will
guaranteed have a seat in Formula one, there's only two
places he can go effectively. That is Aldi to be
(04:31):
loaned out to them, or which is the Salva team
incidentally is called Aldi and Salba, or just to the
Red Bull to the RB team with Yuku Sinoda. I
don't see any other options for him.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I look at or listen to the names you've just
read out that the Red Bull drivers and the RB drivers,
and it goes beyond their driving ability, doesn't it. Bob.
In terms of Sonoda's commercial attractiveness as a Japanese driver, Piz,
I think is Mexican, isn't he? And I think that
it brings with her a similar commercial attractiveness. Daniel Ricardo
was a star and drive to survive the Netflix series.
(05:06):
It's more to it than just the way you drive
the car, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah? Very much, so, very much so Sonoda. Yes, you're right.
He is back by Honda, and that will finish when
Honda go to the Aston Martin team in twenty twenty
six and onwards. So yeah, Sonoda is there next year,
but he's not forever. Daniel Ricardo, as soon as he
was signed and he was on Netflix, the cans of
(05:31):
the fizzy drink in America went up I think by
some eight or ten percent or something like that. That's
a lot of cans of fizzy drink he brings. And yes,
he's a media star rather than being a racing star
at the moment. Sergio Perez, he is sponsored or supported
and has been for many many years, not by the
Mexican population, but also by a guy called Carlos Slim
(05:54):
who's the richest guy in Mexico, one of the richest
people in the world, and he pours a huge amount
of money into Sergio Perez. So yeah, commercial considerations are plenty,
and that really, I suppose in the team, like Red Bull,
who is the team itself, is in a an actual factor,
is in a lot of political strife from within. There
(06:18):
is i suppose you could say, a claim to be
the boss from Helmet Marco and Christian Horner, and there
is a fight between the two of them for supremacy
in that team. Clearly, Christian Horner has won that fight,
and Christian Horner's favorite drivers in the entire setup Ricardo
and Perez. He has stuck with them absolutely. So it's
(06:40):
you know, Liam Lawson's in the middle of not only
a commercial fight to get to get a seat in
Formula One, but a political fight within Red Bull as
well as being a damn good driver. And of course
Liam Lawson knows the internal workings of the best cut,
what was the best car on the grid up until
this moment, being their test driver, being their experimental driver,
(07:06):
their driver, but to stand in to sort the car
out in the simulator and all that sort of thing.
If he leaves, he takes an awful lot of secrets
with him, so he is an attractive proposition for them
to keep and for another team to try and get
hold of.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Supposed to be a development team for Red.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Bull, well that's how it was set up, and that's
how Dietrich Matisich, the boss of Red Bull, set it
up with Helmet Marco. But of course with the unfortunate
death of Matasic last year, well that's kind of gone
out of the windows that Christian Horner now doesn't necessarily
see it as a development team unless he's trying to
(07:43):
develop one driver and that's Daniel Ricardo and that hasn't succeeded,
not at all, So it may have to go back
to being a development team. If that's the case, then
they're going to try and put Liam Lawson in there.
It's an incredibly difficult term situation for Liam, who's effectively powerless,
and his backers because they don't come with huge amounts
(08:05):
of money. It's an incredible difficult situation for him and
his backers, and in certain sense it's a difficult situation
for Horner and Marco, because a they have more problems
than just trying to sort out one driver going into
a seat. It's the entire team they're trying to sort
out all at the same time with what's going on
(08:27):
internally in the Red Bull setup.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
What's your best guess, then, Bob and I know this
is fraught worth per all trying to guess what's going
to happen, trying to crystal ball gaze against the backdrop
that you've outlined for us. So well, what is your
best guess about what twenty twenty five will hold for
Liam Lawson?
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Well, the thing I hold on to is the Christian
Order is saying it's not guaranteed yet. It's not guaranteed
yet because he wants to keep Ricardo and Perez on side.
He doesn't want to say, now, yes, Liam is going
to be in one of our cars next year, because suddenly, okay,
who's going to go? One of us is going to go? Perez?
Is it me? Ricardo? Is it me? I don't know,
(09:06):
So maybe he's just trying to keep those two guys
interested in what they're doing. So my gut feeling is that, well,
I think Liam will get a drive next year, But
then I come up against my own thoughts about just where,
and I can't see necessarily it's going to be that
easy to slot him in unless Horner and Marco knows
(09:28):
that one of their drivers Perez or Ricardo is going
to be out the door, and I suggest that would
be Ricardo before Perez.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
He's ready for a full time Saint is any.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Liamb Absolutely he's ready. But if he doesn't drive next year,
he won't be His career will be over in Formula one. Effectively,
unless he gets a full time drive next year. You
can't be a full time Formula one driver and drop
out a year at his stage of life, and it's
going to be difficult to come back. As it is
if you drop out for two years without driving simulators
(09:59):
or anything like that, it is very difficult. It's that
you're driving a Knight edge in Formula One, and if
you've slip off that nice edge at all, you're in trouble.
So if they don't, if he doesn't get a seat
in Formula one next year, and believe me, if he
gets a seat, I don't think he's going to be
comfortable in that seat for the first I don't know
(10:19):
four or five six races half the season next year
until he really gets his mojo back again. It's difficult
to do, but he has the talent, he has the ability,
he has the age on his side, and I believe
he has the determination to do it. So Yeah, if
he gets a seat, I think I think he'll He'll
go on. He'll go on, he won't just stall.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
The clock is ticking. Fascinating analysis. Bob, thanks so much
for joining us, todight. Really appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Thanks Poney. And one good thing that's come out of today,
I just read that Seane mang gisberg has signed to
do a full season of NASCAR in the big Game,
the NASCAR Cup next year. Somebody else we can watch progress.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, terrific news. Thanks again, Bob. I appreciate it. Thanks Penny,
Thanks Bob, Bob Murray there. Yeah, that's good news at
the end that Bob has picked up on as well.
Shane van Gisbergen will be a full time competitor in
the NASCAR Cup Series next year, Trackhouse Racing confirming he'll
pilot their third car in NASCAR's top division. He's been
racing in the second tier Exfinity Series this year and
(11:22):
has already secured a playoff's birth with wins in Portland,
Sonoma and Chicago. He's a three time Australian Supercars champion.
Of course. He's also contested seven Cup Series races this year,
but next year it'll be full time in the Cup
Series for the Giz Shane van Gisbergen. Really interesting thoughts
on Liam Lawson as well to hear Bob's are at
the end there. If he doesn't drive full time next year,
(11:43):
that'll be his Formula One career over because he would
have had two years out basically and just won't be
able to catch up. So if you're Liam Lawson, you're
demanding an answer from red Ball, aren't you. I know
it's political now, it's difficult, but if you don't have
some sort of pretty close to one hundred percent guarantee
that you can get a seat, you go elsewhere, don't you.
(12:06):
And by the sounds of it, there are others who
would pick them up. Liam Lawson, we watch with great.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Interest for more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen
live to News Talk Set B weekends from midday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from newstalk edb.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
William Lawson could have a full time drive in Formula
One next year. Red Bull advisor Helmet Marco said this
week he'll either be a part of the main team
next year or the sister outfit RB Now. Liam Lawson's
been acting as a reserve driver for both teams this year.
In an interview with an Austrian newspaper, Helmet Marco said
there'll be a decision next month and Lawson will definitely
(00:36):
be in one of their cars next year. It's the
most definitive confirmation yet that Lawson will be activated as
a full time driver. Reports are suggesting too, he has
an exit clause from Red Bull Racing that he can
use if he doesn't get a full time F one
drive next year. Motor racing expert Bob McMurray is with us. Bob,
are these comments from Helmet Marco a cast iron guarantee
(01:00):
of a full time drive for Liam Lawson in Formula
One next year?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
No, in a word, that comment or those comments by
Marco have been superseded, we could say, by the other
part of the boss of Red Bull Christian Horner, who
said I asked Humbert about it all and he said
Liam will have a seat in Formula one. He didn't
say it would be in a Red Bull car. He
(01:25):
didn't say where it would read. In fact, so Christian
Horner who is now saying, but it could be somewhere else.
There's nothing set in stone. Well, if you go somewhere else,
you haven't got too many options, have you. Mercedes, Well,
they've already got this young Antonelli kid signed up. We
think pretty certain of that. So that's that done. The
only other place really apart from the Red Bull or
(01:47):
the RB setup and come to that in a minute,
is Audi. Now there's been well rumored that the Audi,
which is currently the lowest team, in fact that Scadny
points at all this year lowest ranking team on the ladder.
They have been courting that, we believe Liam Law's and
somehow or other for some time, but of course Red
(02:09):
Bull in the form of Hauna or Marco, have been
holding him back from doing anything because he has a contract,
as you say, until the end of this year, and
if they don't give him a drive of some sort
by the end of September, then he's free to leave,
so they may be, I don't know, just dancing around
the maypole here with him, and I think they're being
(02:30):
exceptionally unfair and exceptionally cruel to somebody who career will
be ruined if he doesn't get a drive somewhere next year.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, that was my gut reaction to Bob was that
this doesn't seem very fair on Liam Lawson. He's been
given half promises and I guess you know, had you know,
conversations with I'm sure a lot of people about what
his future might hold. But he needs he needs the
proof in that pudding. If he were to take a
seat with Red Bull, whose seat would he take?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Well, once again, they're being very cagy on what they've got.
The only person that does not have a contract between
the RB team which is Visa whatever they call it,
and the Red Bull team, which is Rastapan's team, the
only person that doesn't actually have a contract for next
year is Daniel Ricardo. Now, he hasn't covered himself in
any glory this season at all. He in fact, today
(03:25):
or last night, he qualified well below his teammate Yuki Sinoda,
and that's the first thing he has to do keep
out qualifying him hasn't done that. Ricardo is not going anywhere.
The only place he can go is to stay in
the RB team. The other person, of course that's in
the Red Bulls set up is Perez. He is constantly
being threatened or you could say, with losing his seat
(03:50):
because he's not performing as well as he should. He
does have a contract the next year, but Red bull
and contracts, you can just you know, there's less than
toilet paper. In fact, the other person, interestingly that may
leave is for Staffan himself. The rumors still persist that
(04:10):
for Staffan is being courted for Mercedes. Now I can't
see that happening for next year, but those rumors are there.
So where can Liam go? I don't know. I've got
no idea. So then by them saying that he will
guaranteed have a seat in Formula one, there's only two
places he can go effectively. That is Aldi to be
(04:31):
loaned out to them, or which is the Salva team
incidentally is called Aldi and Salba, or just to the
Red Bull to the RB team with Yuku Sinoda. I
don't see any other options for him.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I look at or listen to the names you've just
read out that the Red Bull drivers and the RB drivers,
and it goes beyond their driving ability, doesn't it. Bob.
In terms of Sonoda's commercial attractiveness as a Japanese driver, Piz,
I think is Mexican, isn't he? And I think that
it brings with her a similar commercial attractiveness. Daniel Ricardo
was a star and drive to survive the Netflix series.
(05:06):
It's more to it than just the way you drive
the car, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah? Very much, so, very much so Sonoda. Yes, you're right.
He is back by Honda, and that will finish when
Honda go to the Aston Martin team in twenty twenty
six and onwards. So yeah, Sonoda is there next year,
but he's not forever. Daniel Ricardo, as soon as he
was signed and he was on Netflix, the cans of
(05:31):
the fizzy drink in America went up I think by
some eight or ten percent or something like that. That's
a lot of cans of fizzy drink he brings. And yes,
he's a media star rather than being a racing star
at the moment. Sergio Perez, he is sponsored or supported
and has been for many many years, not by the
Mexican population, but also by a guy called Carlos Slim
(05:54):
who's the richest guy in Mexico, one of the richest
people in the world, and he pours a huge amount
of money into Sergio Perez. So yeah, commercial considerations are plenty,
and that really, I suppose in the team, like Red Bull,
who is the team itself, is in a an actual factor,
is in a lot of political strife from within. There
(06:18):
is i suppose you could say, a claim to be
the boss from Helmet Marco and Christian Horner, and there
is a fight between the two of them for supremacy
in that team. Clearly, Christian Horner has won that fight,
and Christian Horner's favorite drivers in the entire setup Ricardo
and Perez. He has stuck with them absolutely. So it's
(06:40):
you know, Liam Lawson's in the middle of not only
a commercial fight to get to get a seat in
Formula One, but a political fight within Red Bull as
well as being a damn good driver. And of course
Liam Lawson knows the internal workings of the best cut,
what was the best car on the grid up until
this moment, being their test driver, being their experimental driver,
(07:06):
their driver, but to stand in to sort the car
out in the simulator and all that sort of thing.
If he leaves, he takes an awful lot of secrets
with him, so he is an attractive proposition for them
to keep and for another team to try and get
hold of.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Supposed to be a development team for Red.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Bull, well that's how it was set up, and that's
how Dietrich Matisich, the boss of Red Bull, set it
up with Helmet Marco. But of course with the unfortunate
death of Matasic last year, well that's kind of gone
out of the windows that Christian Horner now doesn't necessarily
see it as a development team unless he's trying to
(07:43):
develop one driver and that's Daniel Ricardo and that hasn't succeeded,
not at all, So it may have to go back
to being a development team. If that's the case, then
they're going to try and put Liam Lawson in there.
It's an incredibly difficult term situation for Liam, who's effectively powerless,
and his backers because they don't come with huge amounts
(08:05):
of money. It's an incredible difficult situation for him and
his backers, and in certain sense it's a difficult situation
for Horner and Marco, because a they have more problems
than just trying to sort out one driver going into
a seat. It's the entire team they're trying to sort
out all at the same time with what's going on
(08:27):
internally in the Red Bull setup.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
What's your best guess, then, Bob and I know this
is fraught worth per all trying to guess what's going
to happen, trying to crystal ball gaze against the backdrop
that you've outlined for us. So well, what is your
best guess about what twenty twenty five will hold for
Liam Lawson?
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Well, the thing I hold on to is the Christian
Order is saying it's not guaranteed yet. It's not guaranteed
yet because he wants to keep Ricardo and Perez on side.
He doesn't want to say, now, yes, Liam is going
to be in one of our cars next year, because suddenly, okay,
who's going to go? One of us is going to go? Perez?
Is it me? Ricardo? Is it me? I don't know,
(09:06):
So maybe he's just trying to keep those two guys
interested in what they're doing. So my gut feeling is that, well,
I think Liam will get a drive next year, But
then I come up against my own thoughts about just where,
and I can't see necessarily it's going to be that
easy to slot him in unless Horner and Marco knows
(09:28):
that one of their drivers Perez or Ricardo is going
to be out the door, and I suggest that would
be Ricardo before Perez.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
He's ready for a full time Saint is any.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Liamb Absolutely he's ready. But if he doesn't drive next year,
he won't be His career will be over in Formula one. Effectively,
unless he gets a full time drive next year. You
can't be a full time Formula one driver and drop
out a year at his stage of life, and it's
going to be difficult to come back. As it is
if you drop out for two years without driving simulators
(09:59):
or anything like that, it is very difficult. It's that
you're driving a Knight edge in Formula One, and if
you've slip off that nice edge at all, you're in trouble.
So if they don't, if he doesn't get a seat
in Formula one next year, and believe me, if he
gets a seat, I don't think he's going to be
comfortable in that seat for the first I don't know
(10:19):
four or five six races half the season next year
until he really gets his mojo back again. It's difficult
to do, but he has the talent, he has the ability,
he has the age on his side, and I believe
he has the determination to do it. So Yeah, if
he gets a seat, I think I think he'll He'll
go on. He'll go on, he won't just stall.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
The clock is ticking. Fascinating analysis. Bob, thanks so much
for joining us, todight. Really appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Thanks Poney. And one good thing that's come out of today,
I just read that Seane mang gisberg has signed to
do a full season of NASCAR in the big Game,
the NASCAR Cup next year. Somebody else we can watch progress.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, terrific news. Thanks again, Bob. I appreciate it. Thanks Penny,
Thanks Bob, Bob Murray there. Yeah, that's good news at
the end that Bob has picked up on as well.
Shane van Gisbergen will be a full time competitor in
the NASCAR Cup Series next year, Trackhouse Racing confirming he'll
pilot their third car in NASCAR's top division. He's been
racing in the second tier Exfinity Series this year and
(11:22):
has already secured a playoff's birth with wins in Portland,
Sonoma and Chicago. He's a three time Australian Supercars champion.
Of course. He's also contested seven Cup Series races this year,
but next year it'll be full time in the Cup
Series for the Giz Shane van Gisbergen. Really interesting thoughts
on Liam Lawson as well to hear Bob's are at
the end there. If he doesn't drive full time next year,
(11:43):
that'll be his Formula One career over because he would
have had two years out basically and just won't be
able to catch up. So if you're Liam Lawson, you're
demanding an answer from red Ball, aren't you. I know
it's political now, it's difficult, but if you don't have
some sort of pretty close to one hundred percent guarantee
that you can get a seat, you go elsewhere, don't you.
(12:06):
And by the sounds of it, there are others who
would pick them up. Liam Lawson, we watch with great.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Interest for more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen
live to News Talk Set B weekends from midday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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