The All Blacks are preparing for a fierce match at Ellis Park.
They’re facing South Africa in their next Rugby Championship game, playing in one of the most intimidating stadiums in the game.
Sean Fitzpatrick was the captain of the first ever All Blacks side to win a test series in South Africa.
He joins Piney ahead of the test to discuss the chances of Scott Roberston's team, and dig into how tough it is to play in South Africa.
“The fans are relentless, day in, day out, morning, nighttime, they’re telling you how the Springboks are going to beat you.”
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from Newstalk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hugely anticipated Test match tomorrow morning, Alis Park and Johannesburg
All Black spring Box three am, New Zealand. Time to
help preview this one, Let's bring in one of our
all time greats. Sean Fitzpatrick played one hundred and twenty
eight games for the All Blacks, sixty two of those
as captain. Ninety two of the one hundred and twenty
eight games were Test matches. He was the leader of
(00:34):
the first All Black side to win a Test series
in South Africa in nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Brook out for the way to Frank Bonk.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
He's kept up with right box, got from behind, no
skipto backtack old back, bring Pope to the three two.
He set it up, no being out for New Zealand.
Right running ball, no left running ball. The drop kack
bok work topcack s up you looker hold they have
(01:03):
been in Claveraga by thirty three twenty thick potendant to
know that our lives rugby them in a plane seventy
five long years after fifty camp back in nineteen twenty
eight and after four unfixtedful campaigns in twenty nine, nineteen sixteen,
nineteen seventy and seventy six. The Man and the Muddy
is curty of them all the back for the Suverphne
(01:26):
have with the dream to win a Test theory in
South Africa.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Sean Fitzpatrick is with us on Weekend Sports Seawan that
nineteen ninety six Tower of South Africa hearing the late
Graham Moody's call of that iconic match at Loftus in
Pretoria where you secured the Test Series win in South
Africa for the first time. When is that day rate
among everything else that you achieved in the black Jersey.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Well, it puts a little smile on my face, Jason,
that's for sure. That good afternoon, good morning, becausure to
be on your show nineteen ninety six was an unbelievable experience.
I I just going to South Africa and being in
South Africa now to watch the play now, just so
(02:11):
excited because it's a big challenge and John Hart and
his management team and the thirty six players. It was
a big touring party in those days to go to
South Africa and winters series. It's as good as anything
that I achieved. I always love the telling the story
of Don Clark, a great fullback. Embraced me in the
(02:34):
tunnel loftis Verse felt and said thank you, and he
was crying, saying thank you so much for doing something
that no other all black team has done. He said,
I can die a happy man. That's what it meant
to past all Blacks. And that's what I'm so excited
for Razor and this current team that they've got a
(02:55):
real opportunity over the.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Next two weeks.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Those images at the end of you sprawled on the
grass there, you'd made a tackle in the final play,
the hourisher, you had blinded up the game. You were
just lying there and then got up on all four
stumping your first into the turf. A couple of times
those images are burnt into our memories. How empty was
(03:17):
was your tank at the end of that particular game.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
It just it's a very intimulating place to go, Jason,
and to go there, you have to go with an
attitude that we're going to dominate. We're going to dominate
the opposition because they like they like to dominate you.
And the thing is, Jason, that we're very similar. We
have huge respect for each other. We play a very
(03:44):
similar game and when they come to New Zealand, a
huge challenge for them. But I think going to South
Africa and going up up to Albinshew, to the high Vault,
playing in Johannesburg, playing in Victoria, it just adds that
extra edge and they are hugely passionate and you know,
(04:04):
the All Blacks have been there for a week now
and they would have experienced what it's like to be
in South Africa playing the spring Box off the field
because the fans are relentless.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
Day in day out, morning, night time. They're telling you
how the spring Boks are going to beat you.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
And you know, for me, I personally, I loved that
because it's you know, as MW Zealand as we truitionally
like playing away from home as too much as we
love playing at home, and to go there and silence
the crowd, and that's what this current team is going
to have to do. It's going to have to take
them on physically, you know, historically and currently they are
(04:44):
a big team.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
They're bigger than us.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
We know that, but it doesn't mean that we can't
we can't get on top of them as soon as
they get on topic, and that's what they've been doing
over the last few years. They are just bullying teams.
You know, they bring on this this reserve bench that
just dominates a game after sixty minutes. So you know,
it's a big effort. And you know, I look at
(05:09):
the team that that that the all Blacks are picked,
and it's a barring a couple of a couple of positions.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
It's a hugely experienced team.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
And to have Sam Kine there, there's another added bonus
that I'm sure Raiser you know, had had had that
in the plans to play play this testament.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
What about playing at altitude, Shawn? It how different was
it playing in the likes of Johannesburg and Pretoria compared
to matches in Cape Town and Durban, for example.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
It just it burns you a bit, and it just
you know, I think this current team is you know,
admittedly they're not playing super rugby over there like they
had been in the past, but most of this team
would have experienced playing at altitude and you know, they've
been there over seven days now, and I think that's
the sort of the number that you know, you sort
(06:00):
of acclimatized to the altitude.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
And.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
You know it's it's it just it hurts. That's that's
all part of that's all part of the challenge. And
and you just got to realize that it's the same
for them. You know a lot of those players, a
lot of them come from Cape Town or Dourban. So
you know, it's it's an even playing field. And you
(06:27):
know you can't use that as an excuse. You know,
we've got a we've got a very good bench. So
I'm very relax playing at altitude. And Alice Park is
I so liked to call it Alice Parks Ellis Park,
That's what what was historically named. And it's a cauldron.
You know, there's only there's only sixty two thousand people.
(06:50):
That feels as though there's one hundred thousand people in there,
and and that's intimidating.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
So you've got to deal with that.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And and you know, you know, as I'm sure Raises
telling them, you've got to embrace, embrace the challenge.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
And and do not let them get on top.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
How have you rated the first five All Blacks tests
of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I've we're going to realize that, you know, we work
in cycles. Now, Jason, this is a this is a
four year cycle. You know, you don't replace players like
retallic White Lock, you know, very easily, and it's going
to take time. And I think they've done really well.
You know that they did well against English. That English
team is a very very good team, so they did
(07:36):
well against them. And then you know the the Argentinian
series that that you know, there's a bit of a
learning going on there in that first test because that
Argentinian team, as we saw, is a very good team.
Unfortunately for them, they couldn't back it up you know,
seven days later. But it's all part of the learning
process and that's what's so good about this. You know,
this time, this time away for the All Blacks being
(07:56):
in South Africa. You know, as you get two but
two weeks or three weeks together in a place like
South Africa, it's going to be a learning for a
number of these players. But you go through this all
back team, there's a lot of experience there that will
help the Damien McKenzie's Ethan Blackadders of the World, the
Turpeau Tapeau Vis, the Tarmat Williams, that will that will
(08:20):
help them grow as players and they will get better
and this is this is the biggest challenge they would
have faced a number of these players.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
You know, it's not just the.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
One thing we always expect and no we're going to
get from a test against South Africa is physicality. They're
going to come and as you've outlined, with their big,
big men with a real physicality, how important is it
to to match them in that area and win that
battle and the set pete battle when you play against
the spring.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Books, that's you know, it's you know, the big thing
that I've loved over the last of the two three
years is the development of our front row in terms
of the props and to have Codie Taylor in the middle,
but Tablo Max and and you know Tamaiti Williams that
they are going to be the core to our success
on Saturday, without without question. And that's you go back
(09:12):
to what it was like for me playing against and
you know, Olive Brown cragged out, Richard Lowe was up
to us to take them on physically. And this is
as you have just said, this is a very good
South African team and rasci Erasmus he'll have some trips
up his sleeve, I'm sure but you saw probably a
(09:33):
good example. I'm sure Raiser will be talking about this
in terms of the current international teams. What what Ireland
did to South Africa in the summer in June this
year when they went down there, you know, lost the
first Test and then came back and just physically physically
dominated the South Africans and they came out one of
(09:53):
the great wins of the history of il Irish rugby.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Disruption of course in the All Blacks camp before they
flew out with a departure from the coaching group of
Leon McDonald, What effect of any do you expect that
to have on the on the coaches and on the players.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, I'm sure that they would have maybe been aware
of what was going on, would have been explained to
them and just get on with it. You know, it's
a very new coach and group. Anyway, Jason said, I
don't think it will have an effect. Obviously, there will
be you know, some of the some of the players
will be asking questions, but you know it's their job
(10:31):
to play, you know, to get you not to get
involved in the politics of the game, and we need
everyone totally focused. And I'm sure that you know, I'm
sure with the experience, you know, having Sam Kin there and.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
And and.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
And Scott Barrett as captain and then a lot of
players coming back into make a big difference.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Just back to the South African side, I've heard it
suggested by a number of people that this is a
better South African side than the one that won the
World Cup last year. What's your recess one of whether
right at the moment, I.
Speaker 5 (11:08):
Think they're they're definitely more confident, without question.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
They're they're growing a confidence and that's I taped my
hat off to them, you know, to to win, to
win the World Cup and then say the following day
we're going to win the next World Cup. You know,
it's very much like life like the All Blacks and
twenty fifteen. So you know they are, they're getting better,
superbly coached, and they've grown that they've you know, they've
(11:35):
tapped into a few few a few other coaches around
the world and one of ours. But he is relentless
in terms of trying to get better. You know, the
way we did it yesterday is not good enough to
win today. And that's that's I'd imagined one of his
catchphrases and the challenge he lays down to his coaches
and the players, and you look at those players that
(11:55):
they don't look tired. They're just growing, growing as people,
and they've got a great, great team ethos.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
And I think I agree with you. I think they
are better than what they were.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
They all right, So you'll be there at Ellis Park
among the among the sixty five thousand South Africans. You'll
be a bit of a lone voice or maybe one
of a few. What will you be looking for, Sean
in the first I don't know, ten or fifteen minutes
to indicate that the All Blacks are well and truly
in this What are you hoping to see from them
early on?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
You know, the first sort of ten minutes, it will
just be electric. And you know, if we can limit
our mistakes, don't give away penalties. You just can't afford to.
You give away a penalty on you twenty two. You
know they're going to kick the ball seventy meters down
the field with the altude and their lineout's very strong.
So we're just going to make sure we limit the mistakes.
(12:51):
We have to have at least parity at scrumb and
line out time. We can so we're comfortable kicking the
ball out. We don't want them comfortable kicking the ball
out knowing that they're going to challenge our line out.
So we're need to make sure that we were in
the game until the last minute. And that's that's you know,
(13:13):
you look back to ninety six.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
They do not go away.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
They keep knocking at the door, knocking at the door,
and you know, eventually sometimes they knocked the door down.
I'm feeling very well. I love the look of the
current team. The team is named to play this game.
I'd love them to do the job and then we
can go down to go under steal level and have
a crack at a Series one.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Indeed, Sean, so great to get the chance to catch
up enjoy the occasion that will be, as you say,
absolutely electric there at Ellis Park in Johannesburg. Really appreciate
you joining us here in New Zealand across News Talk.
He thanks Jason, Thanks San Sean Fitzpatrick. They're one of
the great, one of the great All Blacks captains in
a real pioneer. He kind of went across from the
(13:59):
amateur game to the professional game, didn't He was one
of the trailblazers in that space, and those images from
nineteen ninety six just forever iconic.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk set B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from Newstalk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hugely anticipated Test match tomorrow morning, Alis Park and Johannesburg
All Black spring Box three am, New Zealand. Time to
help preview this one, Let's bring in one of our
all time greats. Sean Fitzpatrick played one hundred and twenty
eight games for the All Blacks, sixty two of those
as captain. Ninety two of the one hundred and twenty
eight games were Test matches. He was the leader of
(00:34):
the first All Black side to win a Test series
in South Africa in nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Brook out for the way to Frank Bonk.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
He's kept up with right box, got from behind, no
skipto backtack old back, bring Pope to the three two.
He set it up, no being out for New Zealand.
Right running ball, no left running ball. The drop kack
bok work topcack s up you looker hold they have
(01:03):
been in Claveraga by thirty three twenty thick potendant to
know that our lives rugby them in a plane seventy
five long years after fifty camp back in nineteen twenty
eight and after four unfixtedful campaigns in twenty nine, nineteen sixteen,
nineteen seventy and seventy six. The Man and the Muddy
is curty of them all the back for the Suverphne
(01:26):
have with the dream to win a Test theory in
South Africa.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Sean Fitzpatrick is with us on Weekend Sports Seawan that
nineteen ninety six Tower of South Africa hearing the late
Graham Moody's call of that iconic match at Loftus in
Pretoria where you secured the Test Series win in South
Africa for the first time. When is that day rate
among everything else that you achieved in the black Jersey.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Well, it puts a little smile on my face, Jason,
that's for sure. That good afternoon, good morning, becausure to
be on your show nineteen ninety six was an unbelievable experience.
I I just going to South Africa and being in
South Africa now to watch the play now, just so
(02:11):
excited because it's a big challenge and John Hart and
his management team and the thirty six players. It was
a big touring party in those days to go to
South Africa and winters series. It's as good as anything
that I achieved. I always love the telling the story
of Don Clark, a great fullback. Embraced me in the
(02:34):
tunnel loftis Verse felt and said thank you, and he
was crying, saying thank you so much for doing something
that no other all black team has done. He said,
I can die a happy man. That's what it meant
to past all Blacks. And that's what I'm so excited
for Razor and this current team that they've got a
(02:55):
real opportunity over the.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Next two weeks.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Those images at the end of you sprawled on the
grass there, you'd made a tackle in the final play,
the hourisher, you had blinded up the game. You were
just lying there and then got up on all four
stumping your first into the turf. A couple of times
those images are burnt into our memories. How empty was
(03:17):
was your tank at the end of that particular game.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
It just it's a very intimulating place to go, Jason,
and to go there, you have to go with an
attitude that we're going to dominate. We're going to dominate
the opposition because they like they like to dominate you.
And the thing is, Jason, that we're very similar. We
have huge respect for each other. We play a very
(03:44):
similar game and when they come to New Zealand, a
huge challenge for them. But I think going to South
Africa and going up up to Albinshew, to the high Vault,
playing in Johannesburg, playing in Victoria, it just adds that
extra edge and they are hugely passionate and you know,
(04:04):
the All Blacks have been there for a week now
and they would have experienced what it's like to be
in South Africa playing the spring Box off the field
because the fans are relentless.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
Day in day out, morning, night time. They're telling you
how the spring Boks are going to beat you.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
And you know, for me, I personally, I loved that
because it's you know, as MW Zealand as we truitionally
like playing away from home as too much as we
love playing at home, and to go there and silence
the crowd, and that's what this current team is going
to have to do. It's going to have to take
them on physically, you know, historically and currently they are
(04:44):
a big team.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
They're bigger than us.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
We know that, but it doesn't mean that we can't
we can't get on top of them as soon as
they get on topic, and that's what they've been doing
over the last few years. They are just bullying teams.
You know, they bring on this this reserve bench that
just dominates a game after sixty minutes. So you know,
it's a big effort. And you know, I look at
(05:09):
the team that that that the all Blacks are picked,
and it's a barring a couple of a couple of positions.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
It's a hugely experienced team.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
And to have Sam Kine there, there's another added bonus
that I'm sure Raiser you know, had had had that
in the plans to play play this testament.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
What about playing at altitude, Shawn? It how different was
it playing in the likes of Johannesburg and Pretoria compared
to matches in Cape Town and Durban, for example.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
It just it burns you a bit, and it just
you know, I think this current team is you know,
admittedly they're not playing super rugby over there like they
had been in the past, but most of this team
would have experienced playing at altitude and you know, they've
been there over seven days now, and I think that's
the sort of the number that you know, you sort
(06:00):
of acclimatized to the altitude.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
And.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
You know it's it's it just it hurts. That's that's
all part of that's all part of the challenge. And
and you just got to realize that it's the same
for them. You know a lot of those players, a
lot of them come from Cape Town or Dourban. So
you know, it's it's an even playing field. And you
(06:27):
know you can't use that as an excuse. You know,
we've got a we've got a very good bench. So
I'm very relax playing at altitude. And Alice Park is
I so liked to call it Alice Parks Ellis Park,
That's what what was historically named. And it's a cauldron.
You know, there's only there's only sixty two thousand people.
(06:50):
That feels as though there's one hundred thousand people in there,
and and that's intimidating.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
So you've got to deal with that.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And and you know, you know, as I'm sure Raises
telling them, you've got to embrace, embrace the challenge.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
And and do not let them get on top.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
How have you rated the first five All Blacks tests
of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I've we're going to realize that, you know, we work
in cycles. Now, Jason, this is a this is a
four year cycle. You know, you don't replace players like
retallic White Lock, you know, very easily, and it's going
to take time. And I think they've done really well.
You know that they did well against English. That English
team is a very very good team, so they did
(07:36):
well against them. And then you know the the Argentinian
series that that you know, there's a bit of a
learning going on there in that first test because that
Argentinian team, as we saw, is a very good team.
Unfortunately for them, they couldn't back it up you know,
seven days later. But it's all part of the learning
process and that's what's so good about this. You know,
this time, this time away for the All Blacks being
(07:56):
in South Africa. You know, as you get two but
two weeks or three weeks together in a place like
South Africa, it's going to be a learning for a
number of these players. But you go through this all
back team, there's a lot of experience there that will
help the Damien McKenzie's Ethan Blackadders of the World, the
Turpeau Tapeau Vis, the Tarmat Williams, that will that will
(08:20):
help them grow as players and they will get better
and this is this is the biggest challenge they would
have faced a number of these players.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
You know, it's not just the.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
One thing we always expect and no we're going to
get from a test against South Africa is physicality. They're
going to come and as you've outlined, with their big,
big men with a real physicality, how important is it
to to match them in that area and win that
battle and the set pete battle when you play against
the spring.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Books, that's you know, it's you know, the big thing
that I've loved over the last of the two three
years is the development of our front row in terms
of the props and to have Codie Taylor in the middle,
but Tablo Max and and you know Tamaiti Williams that
they are going to be the core to our success
on Saturday, without without question. And that's you go back
(09:12):
to what it was like for me playing against and
you know, Olive Brown cragged out, Richard Lowe was up
to us to take them on physically. And this is
as you have just said, this is a very good
South African team and rasci Erasmus he'll have some trips
up his sleeve, I'm sure but you saw probably a
(09:33):
good example. I'm sure Raiser will be talking about this
in terms of the current international teams. What what Ireland
did to South Africa in the summer in June this
year when they went down there, you know, lost the
first Test and then came back and just physically physically
dominated the South Africans and they came out one of
(09:53):
the great wins of the history of il Irish rugby.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Disruption of course in the All Blacks camp before they
flew out with a departure from the coaching group of
Leon McDonald, What effect of any do you expect that
to have on the on the coaches and on the players.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, I'm sure that they would have maybe been aware
of what was going on, would have been explained to
them and just get on with it. You know, it's
a very new coach and group. Anyway, Jason said, I
don't think it will have an effect. Obviously, there will
be you know, some of the some of the players
will be asking questions, but you know it's their job
(10:31):
to play, you know, to get you not to get
involved in the politics of the game, and we need
everyone totally focused. And I'm sure that you know, I'm
sure with the experience, you know, having Sam Kin there and.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
And and.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
And Scott Barrett as captain and then a lot of
players coming back into make a big difference.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Just back to the South African side, I've heard it
suggested by a number of people that this is a
better South African side than the one that won the
World Cup last year. What's your recess one of whether
right at the moment, I.
Speaker 5 (11:08):
Think they're they're definitely more confident, without question.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
They're they're growing a confidence and that's I taped my
hat off to them, you know, to to win, to
win the World Cup and then say the following day
we're going to win the next World Cup. You know,
it's very much like life like the All Blacks and
twenty fifteen. So you know they are, they're getting better,
superbly coached, and they've grown that they've you know, they've
(11:35):
tapped into a few few a few other coaches around
the world and one of ours. But he is relentless
in terms of trying to get better. You know, the
way we did it yesterday is not good enough to
win today. And that's that's I'd imagined one of his
catchphrases and the challenge he lays down to his coaches
and the players, and you look at those players that
(11:55):
they don't look tired. They're just growing, growing as people,
and they've got a great, great team ethos.
Speaker 5 (12:03):
And I think I agree with you. I think they
are better than what they were.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
They all right, So you'll be there at Ellis Park
among the among the sixty five thousand South Africans. You'll
be a bit of a lone voice or maybe one
of a few. What will you be looking for, Sean
in the first I don't know, ten or fifteen minutes
to indicate that the All Blacks are well and truly
in this What are you hoping to see from them
early on?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
You know, the first sort of ten minutes, it will
just be electric. And you know, if we can limit
our mistakes, don't give away penalties. You just can't afford to.
You give away a penalty on you twenty two. You
know they're going to kick the ball seventy meters down
the field with the altude and their lineout's very strong.
So we're just going to make sure we limit the mistakes.
(12:51):
We have to have at least parity at scrumb and
line out time. We can so we're comfortable kicking the
ball out. We don't want them comfortable kicking the ball
out knowing that they're going to challenge our line out.
So we're need to make sure that we were in
the game until the last minute. And that's that's you know,
(13:13):
you look back to ninety six.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
They do not go away.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
They keep knocking at the door, knocking at the door,
and you know, eventually sometimes they knocked the door down.
I'm feeling very well. I love the look of the
current team. The team is named to play this game.
I'd love them to do the job and then we
can go down to go under steal level and have
a crack at a Series one.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Indeed, Sean, so great to get the chance to catch
up enjoy the occasion that will be, as you say,
absolutely electric there at Ellis Park in Johannesburg. Really appreciate
you joining us here in New Zealand across News Talk.
He thanks Jason, Thanks San Sean Fitzpatrick. They're one of
the great, one of the great All Blacks captains in
a real pioneer. He kind of went across from the
(13:59):
amateur game to the professional game, didn't He was one
of the trailblazers in that space, and those images from
nineteen ninety six just forever iconic.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk set B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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