Waves were made when Leon MacDonald left the All Blacks coaching group, the move coming as a surprise to most.
Piney caught up with coaching guru Wayne Goldsmith to get his thoughts on the situation, and the importance of a unified front among coaching staff.
He told him that as a general rule, you can fight it out behind closed doors, but as soon as the door opens again there needs to be a unified front and message.
“You get it all out and then as soon as the door handle goes, it's one voice, one team, one message. No ambiguity, absolutely clear.”
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from Newstalk zedb.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Major up even in the All Blacks in the last
ten days, Leon McDonald leaving the coaching group after the
second Test against Argentina, and it brought in to focus
some wider questions around coaching groups and the dynamics at
play within them. What happens when coaches working together differ
on key principles? Can those differences be resolved? And can
(00:32):
disagreement and challenging ideas actually be a good thing? How
disruptive does it meantime for the players when they may
be hearing mixed messages and are potentially aligned to one
coach or another through having played under them in previous sides. Well,
to provide some perspective, the only voice I know to
give us the top drawer analysis is our Weekend Sport
(00:56):
coaching guru, Wayne Goldsmith. Wayne, thanks for joining us on
this topic which I'm really interesting interested to hear thoughts
on pretty simple question. First of all, do coaches who
work together actually have to be friends?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Well, the short answer is no, Pinty. In a perfect world, Yes,
in a perfect world, they get up on game day,
they gave breakfast together and talk about footy. They go
and have a game of goal for a game of squash,
and there's this a camaraderie, genuine friendship and affection. But
it's not essential. If you think about coaching as a workplace,
(01:34):
that we've all been in workplaces that have really hummed,
that have been effective, But we don't necessarily like each
other or know each other's partners and kids, and we
don't do those things. But we're professionals and we just
find a way of getting on friendship, getting on well
as human beings, and celebrating an authentic care and connection.
(01:55):
That's a bonus in the end is are they getting
the job done? That's they're hired to do a job,
which is in that case create an environment where success
is almost an inevitability, of course, of the expectations of
the New Zealand public and rugby public, of the All
Blacks team.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So let's just say then that that coaches aren't necessarily friends,
and as you've outlined it, it's not absolutely crucial. It's
a bonus, but not absolutely crucial. How important is it, though,
for those coaches to present a united front to their players?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Absolutely What you've said there that is that's the real issue.
So I know my experience working in the actual coaching
rooms in rugby and super rugby, even up the test
level in AFL, and in definitely in rugby league. The
general thing is that in what we have to say
the coaches room, which is coaches come in cup of
(02:50):
coffee and they start talking about selections or the next game,
or strategies or recruitment, whatever it might be. The general
rule is once that door is closed, it's well, let's
get into it. And I should be able to affective
environment where there's good leadership, good connections, consistency of relationships
(03:13):
and the way we work with each other. I should
be able to look at the head coach and say, mate,
you're wrong on this, and the head coach will look
back at me and say tell me why, and let's
bash it out. And I've made I've been in those
rooms and it's got heated and it's got challenging. But
the key years as soon as the hend goes on
the doorknob again to leave the room, one voice, united front,
(03:36):
consistent messages, no ambiguity and very very clear. But I've
seen those rooms almost get the throwing things, stage and
whole range of stuff, and it's robust and it's vigorous,
and it has to be because if the people charge
with leading the team can't be honest and direct with
(03:58):
each other, then once they leave the room, there is
an opportunity for ambiguity and different messages. So you get
it all out, you thrash it out in honesty, with
respect of course, and real integrity, but you get it
all out, and then as soon as the door handle goes,
it's one voice, one team, one message, no ambiguity, absolutely clear,
(04:21):
and that's a very very healthy professional coaching environment.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, and just as you're saying that, I'm envisaging these
discussions where you know there is a robust dialogue and disagreement.
Obviously that's been a wayne, isn't it than just a
bunch of assistants who nod their head all the time.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
And it has to be because I'll give you an example.
I had a wonderful, just a wonderful opportunity to work
with Racing Victoria for a few years and I mentored
and coach. Believe it or not, there's Stewarts and their
integrity team and the way that the chief steward Terry
Bailey is just an amazing guy. The way he would
put it, he said, we're about to tell people that
(05:03):
the race was legal. We're about the say career weight.
That has to be a decision that our group has
made that's been tested, because once we make the decision,
the media, the public, the jockey, the trainer, the owner,
everyone's going to rip at the pieces and look for
any finy flow to try and prove that we were wrong.
(05:26):
So he said, in our decision making as a group,
as a group of stewards, we have to be direct, honest, critical, confronting.
We have to be able to be those things so
that the decision we make collectively has been rigorously tested, challenged,
and then when we make it, if someone wants to
(05:47):
dispute it, that's great. But man, amen, we've tapped into
the collective expertise and some really good people. And that's
what you see in great footy teams is that the
power of honesty and the power of trust, and the
power of that directness to challenge each other makes the
decision stronger. And I caught off the head coach is wrong.
(06:08):
Having a group of people to say it, but do
it not just hey, you're wrong and we don't like
you because we don't like your hair or you smell
of it. I'm not talking about that. So I'm saying
intelligent discussion, really vigorous, very direct in saying, coach, I
think you've got it wrong. Here's the evidence, here's the data,
here's what I've come up with. Head coach thinks, reviews it,
(06:30):
puts it through the process and might say, look, I'm sorry,
I disagree, and ultimately it's my head on the chopping
block and I choose to go this way or my
decision is. But the more vigorous and the more direct
and the more honest that those relationships are, and the
more direct the conversation is, the stronger, and in all likelihood,
(06:52):
the better the decision is when they step out of
the room. And that's what you want, is a decision
that's been tested that will withstand criticism, the oppositions, attacks,
and all those things once they leave the room.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Okay, so that line there, healthy environment there, And you
spoke before about once the hand goes on the door
doorknob to open the door out into the into the
playing group, that there has to be the united fronts
if there's not Wayne. Do you think players can sense
disharmony in a coaching group.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I think they do. I call it the mum and
Dad can have a bowl of ice cream routine, because
I think some players just get on with it. They're professionals,
they get on with but I think some of them
they want a particular thing, so they might want to
play in a position. One case says no, look, I
think you're absolutely where you should be. You should be
(07:44):
a nine or a three, or you should be upfront,
whatever it is. And in case, well, no, actually I
think I want to be another side. And they go
looking for an alternate view or someone who will listen
to them, or maybe something that given them a different perspective.
That becomes a danger because then the players thinking, hang on,
if I go to mum. In the same analogy, if
I go to mum, Mum said yes you kenna of
(08:05):
ice cream, can't or says go ask your mother? Players
not quite sure that one of the greatest things I've
ever heard Eddie Jones say. He said the secret to
success in professional rugby is role clarity. People must know
very clearly and very accurately, what their job is, what
they're supposed to do when they're supposed to do it,
(08:27):
and to what standard that has to be done. And
he said, you go through any team in the world
where there's ambiguity, uncertainty two messages, the teams inevitably fail.
So yeah, it's got to be very consistent. Those things
have got to be there because players all sense it.
I have no doubt whatsoever that players they listen to
(08:48):
the language, they look at the body language, they look
at the way the coaches in Iraq, and I don't know,
no matter how confidential you think things are inside a
footy club, they all leak everybody right up to inter
national level. Everybody knows what everybody else knows within thirty seconds.
What do you say once if you don't know what's
going on, Wait thirty seconds, everybody knows what's going on.
(09:12):
The problem with it is, though, is that if these
different voices different views, it's like the old military saying
anything that can be misunderstood will be misunderstood. And then
you've got holes all over the place where people are
getting different messages.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
A phrase you've used a lot in our conversations, Wayne,
is when there's a decision to make or a choice
to make you've said you can accept it, change it,
or leave it. And in this case, obviously they decided
that that change had to happen, or in fact, someone
had to leave, and that was Leo McDonald. Is there
merit in the fact they did that quickly rather than
(09:48):
let the sort of linger.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
I've think so. And usually it's Iceberg principle. What we're seeing,
what we're hearing, what's got out into the public. Remember,
that's been shielded, protected, it's been filtered by a whole
mechananism of pr marketing, whole group that's designed to keep
(10:10):
things as tight as they possibly can and not just
be completely in the public domain. And that's in any company,
not just in footy teams. So what you're seeing has
probably been suspected, known, dealt with behind closed doors for
maybe weeks or months. I don't know. I have no
insight or any direct relationship with Rugby New Zealand all
(10:34):
the all Blacks, but I suspect if it's got to
that stage, it's more than likely been something that's accumulated
over a period of time. And there's that wonderful phrasey
which is think slightly but backed fast. I think you
get to a point where you go this this is
going to create or is creating division, uncertainty, lack of
(10:55):
clarity which is now being reflected on field. We've got
to make a decision. Let's make it fast and move on,
obviously with all transparency and integrity and respect for the player,
for the coach, and making sure that they're being treated
appropriately and upfront, because sometimes it doesn't happen that way.
I know a NRL coaching friend of mine. I think
(11:18):
I might have shared this story with you previously, but
went to the NRL team in the morning. CEO called
him in and said, mate, we've made a decision overnight.
You're out and this guy, this big burly guy steading
behind you, is going to escort you to your office,
put your stuff in a box and leave. Your passwords
have been changed. And by the way, we've already told
(11:38):
the players, and we've got a little note here saying
that you're not allowed to directly talk to the players
about this issue for a period of time as part
of your severance. So sometimes it's done really badly, with
no respect for the coach and with a real lack
of integrity. Other times it's not working. We need to
make a change. You know it's not working, Let's move
(12:00):
on really quickly. The hardest thing I made is so
much of this game that we're in is about the
relation between the coach and the athletes, and it can
feel like you're losing family members. That's the hardest thing,
quite often, I think, is you know you can always
get another job, particularly a high level new Ze ond
Rugby cache guard. You guys are in so much demand
(12:21):
all over the world. But on a personal level, you
feel like you know, you've spent all this time building
relationships and friendships with players and then it's gone. That's
the part that really hurts the individual coach.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I want to finish with this absolutely brilliant line that
you sent when I asked you about the segment and
you said you can't beat an opponent by punching them
with one hand while you're punching yourself with the other.
I thought that was absolutely terrific. So unity of purpose
and unity of action, unity of everything. Really, that's probably
(12:55):
what it all boils down to, right, You've got to
be unified.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Well, it is. And the issue with the All Blacks,
as always, they're the team that everybody wants to beat
because they're so damn good. I mean, you know, and
you know I'm a big fan of New Zealand sports generally.
But if you're a coach, your first mindset is, yeah,
we're going okay over here, we've beaten a couple of
(13:19):
teams in Europe, or we're going to write what would
we do against the All Blacks? And everybody's coming after
you all the time. We know how good the South
Africans are. We're now good the Irish are. There's everybody
wants to beat you, guys, And as a consequence, what
you do has to be unified, very clear and very strong,
(13:42):
and you can't. It's like a boxer. You can't. But
no matter what sort of a boxer you are, you
could be Mike Tyson times five. You can't be in
the ring sparring and putting out your jab hand while
you're giving yourself an uppercut. It just doesn't make sense.
And knowing that so many teams are coming to beat
you because you're so good, it has to be with
(14:04):
both hands out in front, fighting with both hands on deck,
which means unity of direction and purpose and all those
things which your teams have been known for for so long.
And some of the great work Gilbert had noticed done
over the years, and when Smithy and Hands and all
those great great coaches and Graham Henry and all those
incredible that it just seemed like the strength and the
(14:30):
unity in every area of the team was what gave
you a winning edge, in addition obviously to player talent
and everything else. But you just screwened unity in the
Black Jumper, and I think that has been and always
will be the key way.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
And you're right in sight and analysis as always greatly
appreciated by me and by our listeners as well. Thanks
so much for taking the time. Are you an All
Blacks fan though? Will that be fair or not?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Well? I watched the All Blacks unless they're up against
the Wallabies, in which case I just sit there crying
into my beer glass. But no, it's just I think
you've got to appreciate just the consistency of execution at
speed and power. I mean, everybody you know over the
(15:16):
years at Saturby going to have beaten you at different times,
and from time to time you get a challenge. But
if you go back over twenty thirty forty years that
I've been watching rugby, the ability of a nation of
three and a half four million people. To produce that
level of skill, which is consistently executed with that much
power and speed, is still remarkable. I don't think there's
(15:38):
another sporting story like it, so absolutely, but yeah, mate,
obviously when they're up begins to Green and Gold Jumper,
I try to watch it and look at the screen.
I try to get some level of enjoyment and just
appreciate that. You know, at least if we get within
fifty points, we're quite happy.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Again, Wayne, thanks for joining us. Always a great.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Pleasure, Always my pleasure. Piney talk you.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah talk so man. Thanks indig Wayan Goldsmith. There just
so much wisdom and everything he sees with. Very lucky
to have him join us so regularly on Weekend Sport.
If you like what you heard from Wayne and would
like to find out more about him, He's got a
couple of books out as well writes articles. His website
is wgcoaching dot com. Wgcoaching dot com.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
For more from Weekends Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk ZEDB weekends from midday, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from Newstalk zedb.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Major up even in the All Blacks in the last
ten days, Leon McDonald leaving the coaching group after the
second Test against Argentina, and it brought in to focus
some wider questions around coaching groups and the dynamics at
play within them. What happens when coaches working together differ
on key principles? Can those differences be resolved? And can
(00:32):
disagreement and challenging ideas actually be a good thing? How
disruptive does it meantime for the players when they may
be hearing mixed messages and are potentially aligned to one
coach or another through having played under them in previous sides. Well,
to provide some perspective, the only voice I know to
give us the top drawer analysis is our Weekend Sport
(00:56):
coaching guru, Wayne Goldsmith. Wayne, thanks for joining us on
this topic which I'm really interesting interested to hear thoughts
on pretty simple question. First of all, do coaches who
work together actually have to be friends?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Well, the short answer is no, Pinty. In a perfect world, Yes,
in a perfect world, they get up on game day,
they gave breakfast together and talk about footy. They go
and have a game of goal for a game of squash,
and there's this a camaraderie, genuine friendship and affection. But
it's not essential. If you think about coaching as a workplace,
(01:34):
that we've all been in workplaces that have really hummed,
that have been effective, But we don't necessarily like each
other or know each other's partners and kids, and we
don't do those things. But we're professionals and we just
find a way of getting on friendship, getting on well
as human beings, and celebrating an authentic care and connection.
(01:55):
That's a bonus in the end is are they getting
the job done? That's they're hired to do a job,
which is in that case create an environment where success
is almost an inevitability, of course, of the expectations of
the New Zealand public and rugby public, of the All
Blacks team.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So let's just say then that that coaches aren't necessarily friends,
and as you've outlined it, it's not absolutely crucial. It's
a bonus, but not absolutely crucial. How important is it, though,
for those coaches to present a united front to their players?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Absolutely What you've said there that is that's the real issue.
So I know my experience working in the actual coaching
rooms in rugby and super rugby, even up the test
level in AFL, and in definitely in rugby league. The
general thing is that in what we have to say
the coaches room, which is coaches come in cup of
(02:50):
coffee and they start talking about selections or the next game,
or strategies or recruitment, whatever it might be. The general
rule is once that door is closed, it's well, let's
get into it. And I should be able to affective
environment where there's good leadership, good connections, consistency of relationships
(03:13):
and the way we work with each other. I should
be able to look at the head coach and say, mate,
you're wrong on this, and the head coach will look
back at me and say tell me why, and let's
bash it out. And I've made I've been in those
rooms and it's got heated and it's got challenging. But
the key years as soon as the hend goes on
the doorknob again to leave the room, one voice, united front,
(03:36):
consistent messages, no ambiguity and very very clear. But I've
seen those rooms almost get the throwing things, stage and
whole range of stuff, and it's robust and it's vigorous,
and it has to be because if the people charge
with leading the team can't be honest and direct with
(03:58):
each other, then once they leave the room, there is
an opportunity for ambiguity and different messages. So you get
it all out, you thrash it out in honesty, with
respect of course, and real integrity, but you get it
all out, and then as soon as the door handle goes,
it's one voice, one team, one message, no ambiguity, absolutely clear,
(04:21):
and that's a very very healthy professional coaching environment.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, and just as you're saying that, I'm envisaging these
discussions where you know there is a robust dialogue and disagreement.
Obviously that's been a wayne, isn't it than just a
bunch of assistants who nod their head all the time.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
And it has to be because I'll give you an example.
I had a wonderful, just a wonderful opportunity to work
with Racing Victoria for a few years and I mentored
and coach. Believe it or not, there's Stewarts and their
integrity team and the way that the chief steward Terry
Bailey is just an amazing guy. The way he would
put it, he said, we're about to tell people that
(05:03):
the race was legal. We're about the say career weight.
That has to be a decision that our group has
made that's been tested, because once we make the decision,
the media, the public, the jockey, the trainer, the owner,
everyone's going to rip at the pieces and look for
any finy flow to try and prove that we were wrong.
(05:26):
So he said, in our decision making as a group,
as a group of stewards, we have to be direct, honest, critical, confronting.
We have to be able to be those things so
that the decision we make collectively has been rigorously tested, challenged,
and then when we make it, if someone wants to
(05:47):
dispute it, that's great. But man, amen, we've tapped into
the collective expertise and some really good people. And that's
what you see in great footy teams is that the
power of honesty and the power of trust, and the
power of that directness to challenge each other makes the
decision stronger. And I caught off the head coach is wrong.
(06:08):
Having a group of people to say it, but do
it not just hey, you're wrong and we don't like
you because we don't like your hair or you smell
of it. I'm not talking about that. So I'm saying
intelligent discussion, really vigorous, very direct in saying, coach, I
think you've got it wrong. Here's the evidence, here's the data,
here's what I've come up with. Head coach thinks, reviews it,
(06:30):
puts it through the process and might say, look, I'm sorry,
I disagree, and ultimately it's my head on the chopping
block and I choose to go this way or my
decision is. But the more vigorous and the more direct
and the more honest that those relationships are, and the
more direct the conversation is, the stronger, and in all likelihood,
(06:52):
the better the decision is when they step out of
the room. And that's what you want, is a decision
that's been tested that will withstand criticism, the oppositions, attacks,
and all those things once they leave the room.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Okay, so that line there, healthy environment there, And you
spoke before about once the hand goes on the door
doorknob to open the door out into the into the
playing group, that there has to be the united fronts
if there's not Wayne. Do you think players can sense
disharmony in a coaching group.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I think they do. I call it the mum and
Dad can have a bowl of ice cream routine, because
I think some players just get on with it. They're professionals,
they get on with but I think some of them
they want a particular thing, so they might want to
play in a position. One case says no, look, I
think you're absolutely where you should be. You should be
(07:44):
a nine or a three, or you should be upfront,
whatever it is. And in case, well, no, actually I
think I want to be another side. And they go
looking for an alternate view or someone who will listen
to them, or maybe something that given them a different perspective.
That becomes a danger because then the players thinking, hang on,
if I go to mum. In the same analogy, if
I go to mum, Mum said yes you kenna of
(08:05):
ice cream, can't or says go ask your mother? Players
not quite sure that one of the greatest things I've
ever heard Eddie Jones say. He said the secret to
success in professional rugby is role clarity. People must know
very clearly and very accurately, what their job is, what
they're supposed to do when they're supposed to do it,
(08:27):
and to what standard that has to be done. And
he said, you go through any team in the world
where there's ambiguity, uncertainty two messages, the teams inevitably fail.
So yeah, it's got to be very consistent. Those things
have got to be there because players all sense it.
I have no doubt whatsoever that players they listen to
(08:48):
the language, they look at the body language, they look
at the way the coaches in Iraq, and I don't know,
no matter how confidential you think things are inside a
footy club, they all leak everybody right up to inter
national level. Everybody knows what everybody else knows within thirty seconds.
What do you say once if you don't know what's
going on, Wait thirty seconds, everybody knows what's going on.
(09:12):
The problem with it is, though, is that if these
different voices different views, it's like the old military saying
anything that can be misunderstood will be misunderstood. And then
you've got holes all over the place where people are
getting different messages.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
A phrase you've used a lot in our conversations, Wayne,
is when there's a decision to make or a choice
to make you've said you can accept it, change it,
or leave it. And in this case, obviously they decided
that that change had to happen, or in fact, someone
had to leave, and that was Leo McDonald. Is there
merit in the fact they did that quickly rather than
(09:48):
let the sort of linger.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
I've think so. And usually it's Iceberg principle. What we're seeing,
what we're hearing, what's got out into the public. Remember,
that's been shielded, protected, it's been filtered by a whole
mechananism of pr marketing, whole group that's designed to keep
(10:10):
things as tight as they possibly can and not just
be completely in the public domain. And that's in any company,
not just in footy teams. So what you're seeing has
probably been suspected, known, dealt with behind closed doors for
maybe weeks or months. I don't know. I have no
insight or any direct relationship with Rugby New Zealand all
(10:34):
the all Blacks, but I suspect if it's got to
that stage, it's more than likely been something that's accumulated
over a period of time. And there's that wonderful phrasey
which is think slightly but backed fast. I think you
get to a point where you go this this is
going to create or is creating division, uncertainty, lack of
(10:55):
clarity which is now being reflected on field. We've got
to make a decision. Let's make it fast and move on,
obviously with all transparency and integrity and respect for the player,
for the coach, and making sure that they're being treated
appropriately and upfront, because sometimes it doesn't happen that way.
I know a NRL coaching friend of mine. I think
(11:18):
I might have shared this story with you previously, but
went to the NRL team in the morning. CEO called
him in and said, mate, we've made a decision overnight.
You're out and this guy, this big burly guy steading
behind you, is going to escort you to your office,
put your stuff in a box and leave. Your passwords
have been changed. And by the way, we've already told
(11:38):
the players, and we've got a little note here saying
that you're not allowed to directly talk to the players
about this issue for a period of time as part
of your severance. So sometimes it's done really badly, with
no respect for the coach and with a real lack
of integrity. Other times it's not working. We need to
make a change. You know it's not working, Let's move
(12:00):
on really quickly. The hardest thing I made is so
much of this game that we're in is about the
relation between the coach and the athletes, and it can
feel like you're losing family members. That's the hardest thing,
quite often, I think, is you know you can always
get another job, particularly a high level new Ze ond
Rugby cache guard. You guys are in so much demand
(12:21):
all over the world. But on a personal level, you
feel like you know, you've spent all this time building
relationships and friendships with players and then it's gone. That's
the part that really hurts the individual coach.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I want to finish with this absolutely brilliant line that
you sent when I asked you about the segment and
you said you can't beat an opponent by punching them
with one hand while you're punching yourself with the other.
I thought that was absolutely terrific. So unity of purpose
and unity of action, unity of everything. Really, that's probably
(12:55):
what it all boils down to, right, You've got to
be unified.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Well, it is. And the issue with the All Blacks,
as always, they're the team that everybody wants to beat
because they're so damn good. I mean, you know, and
you know I'm a big fan of New Zealand sports generally.
But if you're a coach, your first mindset is, yeah,
we're going okay over here, we've beaten a couple of
(13:19):
teams in Europe, or we're going to write what would
we do against the All Blacks? And everybody's coming after
you all the time. We know how good the South
Africans are. We're now good the Irish are. There's everybody
wants to beat you, guys, And as a consequence, what
you do has to be unified, very clear and very strong,
(13:42):
and you can't. It's like a boxer. You can't. But
no matter what sort of a boxer you are, you
could be Mike Tyson times five. You can't be in
the ring sparring and putting out your jab hand while
you're giving yourself an uppercut. It just doesn't make sense.
And knowing that so many teams are coming to beat
you because you're so good, it has to be with
(14:04):
both hands out in front, fighting with both hands on deck,
which means unity of direction and purpose and all those
things which your teams have been known for for so long.
And some of the great work Gilbert had noticed done
over the years, and when Smithy and Hands and all
those great great coaches and Graham Henry and all those
incredible that it just seemed like the strength and the
(14:30):
unity in every area of the team was what gave
you a winning edge, in addition obviously to player talent
and everything else. But you just screwened unity in the
Black Jumper, and I think that has been and always
will be the key way.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
And you're right in sight and analysis as always greatly
appreciated by me and by our listeners as well. Thanks
so much for taking the time. Are you an All
Blacks fan though? Will that be fair or not?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Well? I watched the All Blacks unless they're up against
the Wallabies, in which case I just sit there crying
into my beer glass. But no, it's just I think
you've got to appreciate just the consistency of execution at
speed and power. I mean, everybody you know over the
(15:16):
years at Saturby going to have beaten you at different times,
and from time to time you get a challenge. But
if you go back over twenty thirty forty years that
I've been watching rugby, the ability of a nation of
three and a half four million people. To produce that
level of skill, which is consistently executed with that much
power and speed, is still remarkable. I don't think there's
(15:38):
another sporting story like it, so absolutely, but yeah, mate,
obviously when they're up begins to Green and Gold Jumper,
I try to watch it and look at the screen.
I try to get some level of enjoyment and just
appreciate that. You know, at least if we get within
fifty points, we're quite happy.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Again, Wayne, thanks for joining us. Always a great.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Pleasure, Always my pleasure. Piney talk you.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah talk so man. Thanks indig Wayan Goldsmith. There just
so much wisdom and everything he sees with. Very lucky
to have him join us so regularly on Weekend Sport.
If you like what you heard from Wayne and would
like to find out more about him, He's got a
couple of books out as well writes articles. His website
is wgcoaching dot com. Wgcoaching dot com.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
For more from Weekends Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk ZEDB weekends from midday, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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