September 21, 2024 • 11 mins
Wallabies legend David Campese joins Jason Pine to discuss the influence of international coaches on a home side, the Australian attack and just how capable they are of making their way back to the top of worldwide competition.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZB all.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Right, hands either got numbers the Wallabies, Tom Wrights.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Right, Reacher's out right to try and the Wallabies will
have a chance to try and win this game out
of nowhere.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Yeah, that tribe was converted thirty one twenty eight, So
a final few nervous moments for All Blacks fans before
the result was finally secure. Let's get you across the
Tasman for an Australian viewpoint from Wallaby's legend David Campisei,
who joins us now. David thirty one twenty eight. Do
you think the Wallabies will look at this one is
one that perhaps they let slip away?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah? Mate, I think it's the way the game started.
It looked like the All Backs were going to just
win by fifty. But then obviously, you know, I've never
seen an All Black team really make so many mistakes
and the obviously the first the first two tries at
the Stralis Corps with pretty simple especially defensive erarors, which
(01:06):
is very unusual. But again the Wallabies came back well
they you know, the pretty good performance. We've got some
really good individual players, but we still haven't really gelled
properly yet and I just think it's Look, it's kind
of it might take a while, but you know, I
think it's also interesting to see the way the All
(01:28):
Blacks have played. I mean, they were up by twenty
one points I think it was, and it was like
the game in South Africa. They're roped by twenty points
in the first game. Most All Black teams are passed
would make it forty points. And they just don't seem
to have that killer instinct or that resolve to you know,
to make the opposition really suffer. They just sort of
(01:52):
took the foot off the pedel and made some mistakes
and you know, brought the Wallabies back into the game.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Why do you think that is? Why haven't they got
the killer instinct that's been a trademark, a hallmark of
All Blacks teams down the years.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, look, I'm not really sure. Look, you know, I
know the game is different now and there's so much more,
you know, there's so much more gone into the rugby,
Like there's so much more analysis, and there's so many
more different coaches and just as like a simple thing
if you watch the warm ups of most teams they
do the short little passes the warm up, but in
(02:25):
the game they don't do the short passes. A lot
of them do the spirals, just a little simple thing.
So it's when you get out there under pressure and
you could see, you know, even Damian McKenzie some of
the passes that went to ground, which is very unusual
that level, and that flick pass he tried to throw
in he didn't need to do that. You know, it's
probably just I don't know. Again, they're still probably learning
(02:47):
as a units to understand each other which are the
lines they run. And I think Bowden Barrett was missing
badly as well. I think Jordan's a very good player,
but I think he's more of a finisher. He's not
really a creator, and I think that's where Boden Barrett
sort of adds that extra spis to the back line.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
How far away do you think the Wallaby is from
challenging the top three or four sides in the world.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Again, well, I just think it's just interesting that we've
we've brought another key week coach in that. Really, you
know what I would thoughts by now that it would
have been great if he sort of tried to understand
what our culture and history was and why we were
the wallabies of what we were good ats. We've got
some really good individual players, but we keep on changing
(03:31):
nine and ten around week in week out, and that's
as you know, in most games, nine and ten of
the general you know, they're the connection between the forwards
and backs. And I think that he's still doesn't understand
I suppose our mentality, like you know, we do really
well in that game mess so we really came back.
(03:51):
But really, when the All Blacks were down to thirteen,
why didn't we try and run it wide? Because there
was two backs missing? You know, I think because our
super rugby is not grades and obviously the next generation
coming through which they don't really watch lot of rugby
or they haven't really got a lot of idols who
they want to be like because most of obviously in
Australia's rugby league. And I just think that we need
(04:16):
we just need some players to come through and have
the skills, but also have the confidence to try and
gel and play, you know, and probably get the basic
skills right and play a bit better than we have
been playing.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Do you think he's the right man to coach the Wallabies.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Well, unfortunately, I think he was the only one available
at the time. And I think that you know, sometimes
we panic. We again, we haven't really got to set
up in Australia where you know you've got you've got
a system where we bring all the young coaches through.
Most of the young coaches have to go overseas and
another coach now, the guy called Chris Latham, you know,
(04:53):
helps them are in twenty nineteen Rugby World Cup. Can't
get a start in Australia, didn't want him, goes over
to America, makes the final, lost the final this year. Unfortunately,
then a couple of weeks started to gets another job
over there, and not one person for Rugby Australia is
interested in him at all. They don't speak to him.
I want to see how he's going. Is he interested?
That's our problem. We don't sort of look after our
(05:15):
own and I think also if you notice in the
world rugby at the moment, you've got Robertson coach. The
all Backs played for the New Zealand Russia. Rasmus played
for South Africa. More we played for England, Townsend played
for Scotland's and the French coach. Obviously he played for France,
you know, and we've got a coach that is a
(05:37):
New zal I don't know if he actually played for
New Zealand. He's a good coach, but at the moment,
you know, we are We were a number one two
in the world for years and years by playing a
certain style. But he's brought into our game like morel
in the war from twenty two meters out, which is
not really our style of game. We've got to go
back to what we are known for. But again, if
(05:58):
the guys haven't got the coach's ability to play the
game and try things, you know, we'll probably be stuck
in this in this situation for a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Are there any you mentioned Chris Latham? Are there any
other Australian born candidates to coach the Wallabies right now?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Well, look, I think there isn't really because you know
we've got so we had a couple of South African coaches.
You had Brad Thorne, obviously he's retired as well. Now
you've got Les Kiss who's a rugby league player. I
think he's ever played rugby, but he's doing the Reds
and now we've got Kat coming in from England to
do the back line and obviously Check was around was available,
(06:41):
but he's now in England and he's obviously at Leicester
and enjoying his stint there. Just got there, so you know,
again all our coaches are going around the world. It's
obviously you've got to be part of I don't know,
at certain club or something that gets the jobs out
here because you know, we need to look towards the
future as we've got the lines next year and we've
(07:03):
got twenty seven Rugby World Cups, so we've got a
couple of massive years coming in and we need to
be in the one, two three position if otherwise, where
you know we'll probably struggle. And you know, with League
and Ozzie rules in Australia dominating week in week out
and entertaining people, we need to play a style of
rugby that we entertain the people and people come to
watch and at the moment it's just not happening.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Just one final one on Aura. It's pretty hard to define.
I know, Campo, but your teams of the early nineties
had it. The All Blacks have had it at various stages.
Once you lose an aura. Is it possible to get
an aura back?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Look? I think it's it comes from the team, you know.
I think also what's very different these days when we played,
I know, as long time ago, but we would have
the same fifteen for probably ten fifteen test matches unless
someone got injured. You know, he never came off because
if you came off, you never get another run. Now,
you know, you've got forty minutes players, you've got sixty
(08:02):
minutes players, you know. And we saw this Oauraeigans lose
to Argentina this morning, you know, by a very close
margin because a penalty goal, you know, and sometimes it's
just the smallest margin of error makes a difference. But
the All Blacks have always been known for start off
very strong in the first tend and they sort of
foot off the pedal the last ten minutes before halftime,
(08:24):
they pile on the points. Second half ten minutes, pile
on the points, take it easy and if they have
to the end. But now what we saw yesterday was
a total different team. Yes, they've got a new coach
still understanding again, they've lost a lot of experienced players
as well from last year. I think a lot of
teams have and you need the guys to stand up,
(08:47):
you know, you need the experienced players. And I think
that's where I think South Africa at the moment is
miles ahead. They've you know, obviously russ is a very
smart guy. He his plans for the future. I think
they can you know, but again, you know, this morning
is a simple penalty goal. Two shots that you know,
win and lose games now, so at the top level,
like the All Blacks, it'll come back. But they've just
(09:09):
got to understand. It's like in the Wall of be
you understand why you're playing for your country and you know,
and I think that we saw Clark in that towards
the end. He didn't have to do what he did.
You know, the All Blacks discipline has been normally unbelievably
good over the years and years. But in the game, yes, though,
the discipline was very poor, which is very very unusual.
And again that could be down to the leadership on
(09:30):
the field and obviously new coach who knows. But you know,
they're just not the same as they you know, they
haven't been for war dominated rugby for many years.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Interesting times on both sides of the testament. Thanks for
your time this afternoon, David really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Well, I mean well into next week. So it's not
a good Honting ground for the All Blacks the moment.
You never know, it could be a bit of a surprise.
Look well in it any way.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Well that's that's the question being asked over here. It's
a bit of a graveyard as to say we should
play really good even park David, you know that.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yes, that's a long times we were there too, but yeah,
I under said it right away.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Good one, you thanks David. David Campci there with his thoughts,
what a player, What a player he was some interesting
thoughts there too. Clearly not a fan of Joe Schmitt
coaching the Wallabies, would prefer an Australian to do it.
He made the point about the coaches at various other
places having played for that country. You know, I often
(10:32):
think to myself, how would we feel if a non
New Zealander coach the All Blacks. It may well happen
one day. I think we've got a decent production line
of coaches who I'm sure will helm up our All
Blacks for quite some time. But over in Australia it's
not the first time, is it. David Renn. David Rennie
had them, didn't he. Eddie Jones's Australian. Look what he
(10:52):
did with that team. So I'm not sure that nationality
is to be all and end all clearly, David Campese
not a fan necessarily the way Joe Schmitt's going.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, Listen live
to News Talk sad BE weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZB all.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Right, hands either got numbers the Wallabies, Tom Wrights.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Right, Reacher's out right to try and the Wallabies will
have a chance to try and win this game out
of nowhere.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Yeah, that tribe was converted thirty one twenty eight, So
a final few nervous moments for All Blacks fans before
the result was finally secure. Let's get you across the
Tasman for an Australian viewpoint from Wallaby's legend David Campisei,
who joins us now. David thirty one twenty eight. Do
you think the Wallabies will look at this one is
one that perhaps they let slip away?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah? Mate, I think it's the way the game started.
It looked like the All Backs were going to just
win by fifty. But then obviously, you know, I've never
seen an All Black team really make so many mistakes
and the obviously the first the first two tries at
the Stralis Corps with pretty simple especially defensive erarors, which
(01:06):
is very unusual. But again the Wallabies came back well
they you know, the pretty good performance. We've got some
really good individual players, but we still haven't really gelled
properly yet and I just think it's Look, it's kind
of it might take a while, but you know, I
think it's also interesting to see the way the All
(01:28):
Blacks have played. I mean, they were up by twenty
one points I think it was, and it was like
the game in South Africa. They're roped by twenty points
in the first game. Most All Black teams are passed
would make it forty points. And they just don't seem
to have that killer instinct or that resolve to you know,
to make the opposition really suffer. They just sort of
(01:52):
took the foot off the pedel and made some mistakes
and you know, brought the Wallabies back into the game.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Why do you think that is? Why haven't they got
the killer instinct that's been a trademark, a hallmark of
All Blacks teams down the years.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, look, I'm not really sure. Look, you know, I
know the game is different now and there's so much more,
you know, there's so much more gone into the rugby,
Like there's so much more analysis, and there's so many
more different coaches and just as like a simple thing
if you watch the warm ups of most teams they
do the short little passes the warm up, but in
(02:25):
the game they don't do the short passes. A lot
of them do the spirals, just a little simple thing.
So it's when you get out there under pressure and
you could see, you know, even Damian McKenzie some of
the passes that went to ground, which is very unusual
that level, and that flick pass he tried to throw
in he didn't need to do that. You know, it's
probably just I don't know. Again, they're still probably learning
(02:47):
as a units to understand each other which are the
lines they run. And I think Bowden Barrett was missing
badly as well. I think Jordan's a very good player,
but I think he's more of a finisher. He's not
really a creator, and I think that's where Boden Barrett
sort of adds that extra spis to the back line.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
How far away do you think the Wallaby is from
challenging the top three or four sides in the world.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Again, well, I just think it's just interesting that we've
we've brought another key week coach in that. Really, you
know what I would thoughts by now that it would
have been great if he sort of tried to understand
what our culture and history was and why we were
the wallabies of what we were good ats. We've got
some really good individual players, but we keep on changing
(03:31):
nine and ten around week in week out, and that's
as you know, in most games, nine and ten of
the general you know, they're the connection between the forwards
and backs. And I think that he's still doesn't understand
I suppose our mentality, like you know, we do really
well in that game mess so we really came back.
(03:51):
But really, when the All Blacks were down to thirteen,
why didn't we try and run it wide? Because there
was two backs missing? You know, I think because our
super rugby is not grades and obviously the next generation
coming through which they don't really watch lot of rugby
or they haven't really got a lot of idols who
they want to be like because most of obviously in
Australia's rugby league. And I just think that we need
(04:16):
we just need some players to come through and have
the skills, but also have the confidence to try and
gel and play, you know, and probably get the basic
skills right and play a bit better than we have
been playing.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Do you think he's the right man to coach the Wallabies.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Well, unfortunately, I think he was the only one available
at the time. And I think that you know, sometimes
we panic. We again, we haven't really got to set
up in Australia where you know you've got you've got
a system where we bring all the young coaches through.
Most of the young coaches have to go overseas and
another coach now, the guy called Chris Latham, you know,
(04:53):
helps them are in twenty nineteen Rugby World Cup. Can't
get a start in Australia, didn't want him, goes over
to America, makes the final, lost the final this year. Unfortunately,
then a couple of weeks started to gets another job
over there, and not one person for Rugby Australia is
interested in him at all. They don't speak to him.
I want to see how he's going. Is he interested?
That's our problem. We don't sort of look after our
(05:15):
own and I think also if you notice in the
world rugby at the moment, you've got Robertson coach. The
all Backs played for the New Zealand Russia. Rasmus played
for South Africa. More we played for England, Townsend played
for Scotland's and the French coach. Obviously he played for France,
you know, and we've got a coach that is a
(05:37):
New zal I don't know if he actually played for
New Zealand. He's a good coach, but at the moment,
you know, we are We were a number one two
in the world for years and years by playing a
certain style. But he's brought into our game like morel
in the war from twenty two meters out, which is
not really our style of game. We've got to go
back to what we are known for. But again, if
(05:58):
the guys haven't got the coach's ability to play the
game and try things, you know, we'll probably be stuck
in this in this situation for a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Are there any you mentioned Chris Latham? Are there any
other Australian born candidates to coach the Wallabies right now?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Well, look, I think there isn't really because you know
we've got so we had a couple of South African coaches.
You had Brad Thorne, obviously he's retired as well. Now
you've got Les Kiss who's a rugby league player. I
think he's ever played rugby, but he's doing the Reds
and now we've got Kat coming in from England to
do the back line and obviously Check was around was available,
(06:41):
but he's now in England and he's obviously at Leicester
and enjoying his stint there. Just got there, so you know,
again all our coaches are going around the world. It's
obviously you've got to be part of I don't know,
at certain club or something that gets the jobs out
here because you know, we need to look towards the
future as we've got the lines next year and we've
(07:03):
got twenty seven Rugby World Cups, so we've got a
couple of massive years coming in and we need to
be in the one, two three position if otherwise, where
you know we'll probably struggle. And you know, with League
and Ozzie rules in Australia dominating week in week out
and entertaining people, we need to play a style of
rugby that we entertain the people and people come to
watch and at the moment it's just not happening.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Just one final one on Aura. It's pretty hard to define.
I know, Campo, but your teams of the early nineties
had it. The All Blacks have had it at various stages.
Once you lose an aura. Is it possible to get
an aura back?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Look? I think it's it comes from the team, you know.
I think also what's very different these days when we played,
I know, as long time ago, but we would have
the same fifteen for probably ten fifteen test matches unless
someone got injured. You know, he never came off because
if you came off, you never get another run. Now,
you know, you've got forty minutes players, you've got sixty
(08:02):
minutes players, you know. And we saw this Oauraeigans lose
to Argentina this morning, you know, by a very close
margin because a penalty goal, you know, and sometimes it's
just the smallest margin of error makes a difference. But
the All Blacks have always been known for start off
very strong in the first tend and they sort of
foot off the pedal the last ten minutes before halftime,
(08:24):
they pile on the points. Second half ten minutes, pile
on the points, take it easy and if they have
to the end. But now what we saw yesterday was
a total different team. Yes, they've got a new coach
still understanding again, they've lost a lot of experienced players
as well from last year. I think a lot of
teams have and you need the guys to stand up,
(08:47):
you know, you need the experienced players. And I think
that's where I think South Africa at the moment is
miles ahead. They've you know, obviously russ is a very
smart guy. He his plans for the future. I think
they can you know, but again, you know, this morning
is a simple penalty goal. Two shots that you know,
win and lose games now, so at the top level,
like the All Blacks, it'll come back. But they've just
(09:09):
got to understand. It's like in the Wall of be
you understand why you're playing for your country and you know,
and I think that we saw Clark in that towards
the end. He didn't have to do what he did.
You know, the All Blacks discipline has been normally unbelievably
good over the years and years. But in the game, yes, though,
the discipline was very poor, which is very very unusual.
And again that could be down to the leadership on
(09:30):
the field and obviously new coach who knows. But you know,
they're just not the same as they you know, they
haven't been for war dominated rugby for many years.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Interesting times on both sides of the testament. Thanks for
your time this afternoon, David really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Well, I mean well into next week. So it's not
a good Honting ground for the All Blacks the moment.
You never know, it could be a bit of a surprise.
Look well in it any way.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Well that's that's the question being asked over here. It's
a bit of a graveyard as to say we should
play really good even park David, you know that.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yes, that's a long times we were there too, but yeah,
I under said it right away.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Good one, you thanks David. David Campci there with his thoughts,
what a player, What a player he was some interesting
thoughts there too. Clearly not a fan of Joe Schmitt
coaching the Wallabies, would prefer an Australian to do it.
He made the point about the coaches at various other
places having played for that country. You know, I often
(10:32):
think to myself, how would we feel if a non
New Zealander coach the All Blacks. It may well happen
one day. I think we've got a decent production line
of coaches who I'm sure will helm up our All
Blacks for quite some time. But over in Australia it's
not the first time, is it. David Renn. David Rennie
had them, didn't he. Eddie Jones's Australian. Look what he
(10:52):
did with that team. So I'm not sure that nationality
is to be all and end all clearly, David Campese
not a fan necessarily the way Joe Schmitt's going.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, Listen live
to News Talk sad BE weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.