Full Show Podcast: 5 October 2024

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from News Talk ZEDB.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Two golds and a silver. She'll join us to reflect
with a few weeks of hindsight the White Ferns. Wasn't
it great to wake up this morning and here that
the White Ferns have snapped a ten game losing streak
In t twenty a fifty eight run went over India
and their opening World Cup game in the UAE. Frankie
mccai going to break it down for us after two.
Also over night, Tim New Zealand found out that their

(00:35):
challenger for the thirty seventh America's Cup in Barcelona will
be any Ospritannia. They've beaten Luna ross As seven to
four in the Challenger Series final. Mark Warham's on that
and every month or so we get the benefit of
the wisdom of coaching guru Wayne Goldsmith. He's going to
chat to us this afternoon about end of season reviews

(00:57):
and the best way to do them. Adam Peacock out
of Australia in this regular slot from across the Tasman
two Live Sport this afternoon, lots of it. Fara Parma
Cup Premiership Final wake up, so heavily favored to beat
Canterbury twelve thirty five in Hamilton. We'll keep eyes on
that for you. Budding's MPC final round robin matches one
or two counties. As I mentioned Parmeerston North Counties need

(01:17):
to win to stay alive in the quarter final equation.
Manawa two just looking to end their season on a high.
Southland North Harbor and in the Cargo same time. Both
of these games kick off at five past two. Harbor
need to win to stay alive in their quest to
play in the quarter finals. The Stags are out of
contention Harland Championship. The final round robin matches before we

(01:38):
find our top four for the Meads Cup and then
the next four for the Lahore Cup. We've got games
in a Tooria, Ashburton or Amadu Fort, the Younger Graymouth
and Finland. We this afternoon Round two action and the
Men's and Women's National Football League and the breakers are
in the United States. They've got the first of the
three matches against NBA opposition, the Utah Jazz, first up

(02:01):
around two o'clock this afternoon. We'll keep eyes on that
for you two. Please get involved in the show. If
you'd like a couple of ways to do that, Oh,
eight hundred eighty ten eighty will get you through on
the phones nine two nine two. If you'd like to
send a text or an email off to me Jason
at NEWSTALKSEDB dot co dot NZ ten Past Midday.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Analyzing every view from every angle in the sporting world
weekends for it with Jason five Call.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
News Talks EDB. The Black Cabs have a new Test
cricket captain getting away towards the boundary. It may go
for fourth the Test century. One hundred of one hundred.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
And sixty seventies delighted selects the New Zealand players in
the dressing room.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Tom Latham is one hundred, having skippered New Zealand and
nine previous Test matches. Tom Latham will assume the role
full time, starting with the upcoming three Test tour of
India and then the three match home series against England
which follows. Tom Latham is with us congratulations on the appointment. Tom.
How did the captaincy change play out?

Speaker 4 (03:05):
Yeah, thank you very much. It's obviously an honor and
a privilege, I guess to be given the opportunity to
lead the team as you said, of obviously done in
the past before, and I guess after you know, each tour,
each series, you know, things are evaluated with with where
things are at, and obviously the decision came to me

(03:27):
decided to step away from the role, and it's obviously
nice to be asked to do it and looking certainly
looking forward to the opportunity.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Did you know a change was in the win?

Speaker 4 (03:37):
No, I didn't know. I guess, as I said, it's
one of those things that after each series and in
each tour you know, steady and evaluate things and where
things are at and all that sort of thing. And
obviously the decision was made and you know in the
position we are now, so yeah, obviously came as a
little bit of a surprise, but he obviously one obviously

(03:59):
looking forward to you you have all the different emotions
when when I guess when you get appointed with something
like that, and you certainly look forward to what's coming
up ahead.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Is there something you've aspired to?

Speaker 4 (04:12):
As I said, I've done nine test matches in the
past and done you know, various one days and tea
twenties along the road, and I guess from my point
of view, it's always been a selling tight type role,
so this, I guess this opportunity is slightly different than
what have been used to and I think, to me,
it's about trying to push the team forward it as

(04:32):
much as I can, and yeah, sent me, I think
once you do it, once you get a little bit
of a bug for it. I think Matt's has always
been about trying to push the team forward and support
whoever's doing it at the time. You know where it
became or where it be teim. So yeah, it's obviously
nice to be in this position.

Speaker 5 (04:50):
Now.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Did you want the job when came Williamson stepped down
in twenty twenty two.

Speaker 4 (04:56):
Yeah, it was again a different situation and I'd decided
to go with Timmy. But in all honesty it's probably
worked out well in terms of the situation we are
in there, and I guess it's just about trying to
support again whoever whoever was the captain and certainly gave
my full support to me, you know, for the last
for the last two years. So yeah, again it wasn't

(05:19):
I was a little bit surprised at the time, but
I can certainly see the reasons why they.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Went to me and Obviously, tim has been a part
of this black cap set up for a long time,
as have you, and he will continue to be I'm
sure in Test cricket. Do you perceive any potential awkwardness
around the change of captaincy be thought about how that
might be negotiated.

Speaker 4 (05:39):
Absolutely, no awkwardness at all. HAVE been in touch with
Timmy throughout the last few days and I just sort
of want to congratulate and him on the role that
he's done over the last two years. I think he's
a valued member of our team, a senior guy and
someone that has immense amount of experience, and I've certainly

(05:59):
enjoyed playing room and I know a lot of the
guys have as well. But there'll certainly be no awkingness
there at all. I know he's willing to to help
me and ultimately be leaning on him at times to
you for his experience in situations too.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
So, as we've both mentioned, you've done the job previo
to day, but now it's your gig full time. How
will that change your approach to captaining the Test side?

Speaker 4 (06:23):
Not sure at the stage, and I guess I guess
you always look at ways you want to you want
to push the team forward, whether it's you know, your
captain or not captain, but now being in the situation,
you have a little bit I guess more control. But
I think to me, it's about trying to empower guys
to do to do their roles as best can and
let them go that with freedom and and play their

(06:45):
roles as best they can, because I think when guys
do that, they play with freedom without fear. You know,
results tend to or I guess you play in a
way that you want to and results sort of take
care of himself along the road. But yeah, I think
to my point of your affording it and stuck in
against India, and again it's not a massive change. I've
done it before and guys know sort of parrotic, so

(07:07):
he will hopefully hit the ground running.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
So you don't feel any need to stamp your mark
on this team to you know, to immediately be a
certain type of captain of the site.

Speaker 4 (07:18):
I wouldn't say straight away. I certainly don't want to
come in and start changing things left, right and center.
And you know, we're the test how we do a
lot of good things. I'm sure there'll be things that
that we want to improve, like I guess any team
does throughout the road. But yeah, I guess we'll evaluate
that and hopefully adapt as quick as we can on

(07:39):
the road, and if need be, we'll obviously make those
changes and if any changes at all.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
How important a part of Test captaincy is team selection,
and yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:52):
Obviously in all formats it's it's important thing if you
look as a whole our test sides being reasonably settled
over a long period of time. I think the consistency
of selection is has certainly helped the team and in
terms of where we've got to where we've got to
in the past, not just over recent times, but you

(08:12):
know times we have been really successful, and I think
that consistency is important to give guys opportunities to perform
their roles as best they can. In recently, know how
fickle cricket can be, We've obviously placed in some tough
conditions at home but also away, So I think for
me it's probably more the consistency pieces making sure you

(08:33):
give you guys opportunities to do the roles that they've
been selected for.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
In the recent Trill Lincoln series it was it was
two seemers too special as seemas picked for both Test matches.
Do you feel like that's likely to be the case
in India as well?

Speaker 4 (08:50):
Yeah, we'll obviously have to wait to we get over there,
but I think if you look over a recent series,
you know, it tends to sort of be that makeup
in terms of you know, seem as versus spinners. I
think we're lucky we've got you know, plenty of all
rounders in that top six, which certainly makes your resource
a little bit differ in terms of having a few

(09:10):
more different options. So yeah, I think obviously hard to
not to say from from here an I'd say potentially
that you know, the two seamers is obviously a high
chance of that depending on what we what we get
in terms of pitch twise in.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
India arguably a bigger challenge even than Sri Lanka. Do
you feel there's any need to rebuild confidence in the
team after the after the series defeat in Sri Lanka.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
Yeah, I'll the results didn't quite go our way. I
think if you look at that first Test, we were
we were pretty close. I think there was only sixty
runs that we lost by So in test cricket, that's
a reasonably sport small margin, and we did play some
good cricket throughout that game and obviously take away the
first innings with the bat. In the second Test, I
actually thought we played reasonably well in that second to

(10:01):
get over through fifty and a third fourth innings is
as obviously a decent effort as well. So yeah, obviously
a different challenge, a big challenge which I'm sure everyone
we're looking forward to. It is no better time to
test yourself against, you know that the best team and
their own conditions and India and through pretty iconic venues.
So I'm sure the guys will be resting up this

(10:23):
week and hopefully looking forward against into things next week.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
When you find yourself in a situation like that the
Second Test when Sri Lanka were batting, you know, the
piling on runs, breakthroughs are hard to come by. What
is the best strategy as a captain in that situation.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
Yeah, it certainly hard, and I think you go through
many different ideas and everything you throw it and they
sort of tend to come up with the answers. So
you know, it is really hard in that situation in
terms of you know what you do, and we haven't
been in that situation a lot before and credit to
the way that short to play, they played outstandingly well.

(10:59):
And yeah, that's sort of hard to know. I guess, Yeah,
you lean on those experiences that you've had before, and
I guess you're just trying to do anything to get
to work at You're trying to, you know, go through
different options, different change bowls at different ends and different
field placings. You're just trying to just do something to

(11:19):
break the partnership because you know if you do that
and then things tend to happen quite quickly. In those
parts of the world where you can get run, you
can get a couple quickly. So I hopefull we're not
in that situation.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah, and with the bat, you're one of our best
players off spin bowling and it's likely obviously that you're
going to have to face quite a bit of it
in India as you did in Sri Lanka. What are
the real keys to playing spin well, particularly in the subcontinent.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
That's having your plan and trying to stick to it
for long periods. I think we're seeing, you know, different
teams in recent times turn there do it differently. Likes England,
they tend to be a little bit more aggressive, Whereas
you know, we've obviously have players that like to bat
long periods of time and try weir teams down. And
I think it's been able to stick to a plan

(12:06):
as best you can. I think from a spin point
of view, sometimes it's not the ball that actually turns
it that gets all the wickets. It's the one that
flies on it tends to be, tends to be the
danger bull. But I've said I've got some quality spinners
but also got some fantastic pass balls as well, So
we're certainly going to be tested, that's for sure. But
I know the guys will be looking forward to it.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
And I don't know whether this is a myth or not,
but you often hear about captain c affecting a player's performance.
What strategies can you use to make sure captaincy doesn't
affect the way you bat?

Speaker 6 (12:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (12:41):
Again, I think it's been able to stick to your
planet as best you can. I think you know, it's
been able to switch between a captain and also switching
between a batsman, which is really important. Though obviously when
I bat, it's about me and trying to I guess
nail my things as best I can and not worrying
too much about what's out of your control. And as

(13:02):
I said, I've done in the past, done it before,
so I'll send it leaning back on those experiences and
going from there.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Busy time ahead for your tom three Tests against India,
three back home against England, which we're very much looking
forward to. Congratulations again on being named our new Test
captain and thanks for the chat this afternoon. No worry,
no thank you, Tom. Tom Latham there black Caps Test skipper,
not on a temporary basis anymore, not on a fill
in basis. He is the new Test skipper moving forward.

(13:33):
Keen to hear from you now on this and a
couple of issues wrapped around it. Oh eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty lines are open for your thoughts or
the text as well. Nine two ninety two your thoughts
on the captaincy change. Is Tom Latham the right man
to move us forward? And what do you see now
in the future of Tim Southey as an international cricketer.

(13:55):
Reading between the lines of Tom Latham's diplomacy there, it's
clear he was disappointed to be overlooked the first time
when came Williamson relinquished the Test captaincy the back end
twenty twenty two. I think most people thought Tom Latham
was the obvious choice, having done it before and being
a guy who in all conditions, in all countries and

(14:16):
every Test match is pretty much a first choice player.
If he's fit, he plays Tom Latham. He's become one
of our best Test openers. And yes he's gone through
a little bit of a rocky time recently with the
bat as well, but I think the fact remains that
he is part of our best Test eleven. The change

(14:39):
of testcaver had to happen, obviously, and whether it was
the captain c that affected his performances or not, and
I actually think it did play a big part. The
fact is Tim Southey wasn't doing enough to guarantee his
place in the team, and that becomes a real issue
when you are captain, even more so on the Subcontinent.
And I've said this a lot of times in the
last couple of weeks. More often than not, you play

(15:01):
just two seemas in Test matches in the Subcontinent, your
quickest and your best, and Tim Soudy isn't either of
those two things at the moment. The O mission of
Matt Henry can only be explained by Tim Southy being
captain because the last time Matt Henry bolden Test cricket
was against Australia at the end of our home summer.

(15:23):
He took five for seventy and three for thirty six
on the first Test, seven for sixty seven and two
for ninety four in the second, seventeen wickets at fifteen's
easily our best bowler and probably the best across both
sides in the series. Tim Soudy four wickets in those
two Tests at an average of sixty one, and Matt
Henry also contributed some handy runs, averaging over twenty five

(15:47):
Tim Southy eight and a half, But it was Matt
Henry who was left out of the Sri Lankan Tests
because Tim soud was captain. Imagine taking seven for sixty
seven against Australia and then being dropped for the next Test,
albeit in very different conditions. Well, thankfully that will be
one of the first things put right. You'd have to
think by this captaincy change, it'll ensure that Matt Henry

(16:09):
plays against India. The question now is whether Tim Southy
even goes on that tour and a large part of
me thinks he shouldn't. He should stay back here, get
out of the limelight, freshen up and get ready to
play the three Tests against England before Christmas, because he
should definitely play in those Tests. Tim Southey will have

(16:31):
a seam heavy attack and he is still part of
a four pronged pace attack. Our best four Matt Henry, obviously,
Will O'Rourke, Tim Southey and probably Ben Sears. I don't
know the current status of Kyle Jamison. Hopefully we'll see
him again this summer. But Tim Southey plays those Test matches,
and I really think that might be quite a good

(16:52):
way to bring the curtain down on what has been
by every measure pretty much a terrific career three hundred
and eighty two Test wickets. Only Sir Richard Hadley has
more than that.

Speaker 7 (17:05):
For us.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
It be great to see Tim Southey join that very
exclusive four hundred Test wicket club. Eighteen more wickets might
be a stretch in three Test matches, but who knows,
without having to worry about anything else other than bowling,
and on reasonably seem friendly wickets at Hagley the Basin,
Seddon Park, he could do it. I honestly think relinquishing

(17:27):
the captaincy is a good thing for Tim Southey. He
is one of our cricketing greats. He deserves to go
out on top. And the longer the captaincy saga played out,
the more his legacy was being affected. Now he's got
a chance for a swan song at home and to
enjoy a fitting into a great career.

Speaker 8 (17:46):
Weekends for it.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty twelve twenty six, we're
back with your calls right after.

Speaker 7 (17:52):
This morning afternoon Piney, How are you, mate, Mike Green
from this last six Sri Lanka cold going away years?

Speaker 2 (18:00):
No, So look, I'm glad they've made the change. You know,
if we if there'd be no Checke and we were
we were contemplating the prospect of playing India over there
in three Test matches without our best seam bowler as
part of the eleven, I would have had probably more
of a headache. I actually am now looking more forward
to the Indian Test matches, daunting as they may be.

Speaker 7 (18:22):
The change had to be done before we went on
this tour, fining like it was pretty obvious that Sowdy
shouldn't have been playing because you were only going to
pick two bowlers o rock or Sears and Matt Henry.
I just find it so battling that Matt Henry was
carrying the drenks in his past the Test series. It's
just it was as flatantly obvious that Soudy just didn't

(18:42):
want to drop himself because he wanted to play. But
I mean, really, stats don't lie, pining and Sowdy shouldn't
Southey after that one hundred and sevens crisis, he should have.
He should have I would have thought this, probably should
have just said, hey, I'm retiring now, thanks very much,
see you later. Because it's a no brainerupon, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, on numbers alone, Rich, it's a no brainer. With
Matt Henry and some Southe You're right, and like, if
you have above this, take the personneliti's out of it.
The captain should never be thinking about dropping themselves. But
I think it must have been clear to Tim Southey,
even privately, that he wasn't contributing enough in his core
role as a seam bowler to justify a place in

(19:23):
the team when, as you say, we're only going to
play two bowlers, two seam bowlers on the subcontinent, and
so I think that's obviously occurred to him or or
has he's come to that realization. So I think he's
made a good decision here.

Speaker 7 (19:38):
I think that it's really I've got a couple of
points here. Finding haven't got the time?

Speaker 9 (19:41):
Is that?

Speaker 7 (19:42):
Of course, when it comes to with this tour, why
why have we come home? We should have gone straight
to Sri Lanka, go to India and start preparat I
mean winter, we're listening two weeks and we've come home
for a week and we're going to be flying out quit.

Speaker 9 (19:56):
Later this week.

Speaker 7 (19:57):
We should be going over there and practicing. After that
poor performance we've had in Sherilanka.

Speaker 9 (20:02):
What are we doing?

Speaker 7 (20:03):
Three kids and yet we've come home.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
I totally agree, particularly given the fact and not that
they would have been able to foresee this, particularly in
the fact the Afghanistan test was completely washed out, so
you'll lose that as preparation for the Sri Lankan tests.
And you're right, Rich. The first test against India starts
on the sixteenth of October. It's the fifth today, so
it's only eleven days away. Yeah, I reckon get over there,

(20:27):
play a couple of four day games.

Speaker 7 (20:28):
Get yourself used to it, right, Yeah, and it's one
that also battling Kiney that all wickets of Ajs Totel
have been away from home.

Speaker 10 (20:38):
That clearly highlights the.

Speaker 7 (20:39):
Problem that we're going to spots quine of mentality that
we start picking a scene spinner and we play them
on any pitch. I don't care if it's green and
it looks like pum at the front he played because
we've sober light on well, we will just stick to
one dimensional bolus. But things are changed, no wonder we
don't have When you go look at Ajs Totel, he's
come out after that last seriously paid in India, he's

(21:03):
hardly paid a test. He was dropped after taking ten wicks.
And it's just so frustrating that we just keep pecking
a spinner based on his batting record and what they're
skin to providing runs at number eight pack a spinner.
So look at Australia with Nathan Lyne. You know we
just never go to We're going to change that mindset.
I think of this conservative approach with the man testy

(21:24):
play and the nation our size.

Speaker 9 (21:26):
We've got to be a bit more impressive.

Speaker 7 (21:27):
We've got to start making those changes.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree on the spinner thing.
You're so right. Nathan Lyon, after Pat Cummins is probably
the first guy they write down. He plays every Test,
as you say, even if the pitch looks like Kermit
the frog in your in your words, which is a
great description. He plays. He got ten wickets of the
basin last summer. He got ten from eight, you.

Speaker 11 (21:50):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
And in meantime, here's us not playing a spinner. I
don't think we played a spinner in that first Test.
I'm just going to check revenderra bowl seven overs. Glenn
Phillip's got member. Glenn Phillips got five for in the
second innings, remember that at the basin and he accidental
test spinner. So you're so right, and that that stat
about a jazz is just so glaring. What do they

(22:12):
say if it seems it spins?

Speaker 7 (22:15):
Yeah, exactly, And it's just you know, we saw the
cat to see change is going to come. But I
just think there's a lot that rides on Gary Steak here.
How they cannot just cop all the blame the Gary
Steed and his conservative approach is what's costing up games.
We've picked a spinner and any Test we played because
you go look at Australia. England's trying to do it

(22:36):
because they've won a points of difference. But I know
no doubt when we come out here we'll have spoke
well but four seamers and we'll have lem Philips. I mean, honestly,
change mat so frustrating. I've got the migrant coming back now.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
We've we've got to draw a line under this particular
conversation made again, shed again. When the Indian Test roll around,
I look forward to it.

Speaker 7 (23:02):
With the lack of preparation finding I don't know. As
Ian Smith said he's going to be going over here
with last half and I think.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
That's all right. Make good the chat has always appreciate
your cool. It's chet again in a couple of weeks
or so. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty's own number, Hello, Chris,
Oh yeah.

Speaker 8 (23:19):
Again, Jason. Look this this this handing by Naheman Crecket
of the captaincy that you're discussing at the moment. This
dates back to twenty twenty two. I remember watching that
press conference when when when when they stood King Williamson
down Now he's.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Still he's still down voluntarily. Just won't make that clear.

Speaker 8 (23:37):
Are you are you sure about that?

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Came Williamson. Yeah, he relinquished the Test captaincy.

Speaker 8 (23:42):
Yeah, when he looked at it, perplexed anyway, Okay, fair enough?
And so I agree with Simon all the time. He said,
it's more it's kin Williamson needs to be playing Test
cricket for New Zealand till he's forty hopefully. And the
thing that the thing is it should have been Laysam.
Then I'm not a big Layson fan because I think
he's he's a great bloke, good good opening Test. But

(24:06):
he's not a Christive captain. He's very very conservative.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah I would say that, Yes, I would say that's fair.

Speaker 5 (24:13):
Wouldn't you?

Speaker 6 (24:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (24:15):
But who else would you? I mean who else would you?
But the problem was who else in that team could
could take the take the reins Conway, who's had first
class Test, who's had first class captaincy experience? Jason out
of say Conway and Mitchell And have they done it?

Speaker 2 (24:29):
I don't, not not for a long not not for
a prolonged period Chris, you work your way down Conway,
no Mitchell, no Phillips, no Blundell, no Santna a little
bit maybe, and then you're getting into the Bowlders, where
once again you're fraught with difficulty around selection, et cetera.
So it's really lath them or nobody at the moment.
I think Glenn Phillips moving forward would be a very

(24:50):
good choice because he's got a bit about him, a
bit of innovation, a bit of you know, up in
your grill type mentality. I think he's he reminds me
a little bit of Brendan mcallum in that way. I
think Glen Phillips would be a really good choice moving forward.

Speaker 8 (25:06):
They're there because he's only twenty six and he's now
an established Test cricketer. I mean the only guy I say,
you said, you know, bobbles don't make good Test captains. Well,
the difference there is Pat Cummins. But look at the
Armory Comers has got batsman and bowlders. Anyone could captain
that team well.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
I think also he has justified his place because he
continues to perform, and that's I think the issue here,
Chris is that because Tim Sowdy wasn't getting those wickets,
wasn't performing His place in the side immediately comes into question,
and you can't have that when you are the skipper
of the side. You have to always justify your place first.
This is the whole reason why Sam Kaine's been so

(25:44):
polarizing as All Blacks captain, because there was a wide
segment of the rugby public who didn't think he deserved
to be there in the first place, let alone be captain.
Whether that's true or not, that was the perception when
and cricket is so much more numbers based than rugby.
You can look at Tim Soudy's bowling figures and say, right, well,
here he is compared to Matt Henry. Anybody can see

(26:04):
that Matt Henry is a better bat all or at
the moment than Tim Saudi and Test cricket. And yet
Saudi's not going to be dropped because he's captain. You
shouldn't drop your captain. Your captain should never be dropped.
We need to take it back and say it was
the wrong decision in hindsight to appoint him captain. And
I give a lot of credit to Tim Soude for
realizing that, realizing that his performances haven't been up to

(26:27):
it recently and stepping aside from the captain c I
rate it. Thanks for your call, Chris Murray. Hi, very
good Murray.

Speaker 11 (26:37):
How are you?

Speaker 8 (26:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (26:39):
Well, all right mate? Well just hold your phone a
bit closer to your mouth, mate, because I can't unless
you're not able to, because I can't quite got your
better there now mate. So all right, So well, good
that you can chat. Good that you can chat to
us and we can keep your company. What's on your mind?

Speaker 6 (26:58):
Well, my coach junior cricket in my day, and I
think you did right. He shouldn't drop your captain and
I never did. All the captains I had, one of
them was meeting to him.

Speaker 12 (27:12):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (27:13):
And you know you've got to sometimes you've got to
play defensive to get get a wicked or two. And
I as far as how he goes, I don't think
they'll select him go to India. I think they'll tell
him to get him get himself right for the green grass,

(27:34):
for the Oval and christ hut year. That's what I think.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
So I hope they do nothing. That's my that's my hope.
I hope they do. I just don't think he's probably
he's probably not going to play in India, right, if
we're honest, he's probably not going to play. So yeah,
so so why put him through going? I mean, he's clear,
I don't know, he's always before he was captain, and
even while he's captain, he's a popular member of that
team and captains he just seems to have really weighed

(28:02):
on him, you know. He just doesn't seem to be
as carefree as he used to be. He had a
pretty good poker face, but inside that team environment when
he wasn't captain, he was very very popular with that
team and probably still is. So maybe you take him
in that regard, But I don't think he's going to
play over there, so I'd be leaving him back here
and getting him ready for England.

Speaker 6 (28:21):
Yeah, that's right, And as far as Latham goes as captain,
he'd be my captain for a long long time. That's
That's that's where I see. It just becomes you come
because you come from Canterbury. But he's a very good player.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, you do tend to be very very it tend
to be very parochial down there, but we love that
about you.

Speaker 8 (28:42):
Murray.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
I feel the same way watch two games.

Speaker 6 (28:46):
We're getting to watch two games of Canterbury today on
the rugby and they're both playing my ketto dead the
haulsh aren't they?

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Oh well, I don't know whether Canterbury a favorite in
the women's final, Murray, I really don't think that.

Speaker 9 (29:02):
I think that will be you reckon.

Speaker 6 (29:04):
I think they went away from home. Yeah all right,
I kind of. I don't like betting against or or
beckon against the Red and Blades or the Black and White.
But here they game did night. It would be tough
live on Sky Open and I'll be watching it. I mean,
let me be good. May Red and Blakes weren't there too?

Speaker 2 (29:28):
That all to you and to you was well, look,
I hope for your sake, Loo, I've got no skin
in either of those two games. I'm I'm from Wellington.
So if Canterbury were to beat White Otta in both
the Farah Parmer Cup final and the MPC later tonight,
then I'd be very happy with that, or I wouldn't
be unhappy with it. I probably feel what neutral about it,
but I hope for your sake that your red and
black sides can both get the job done. Good to

(29:49):
chat to you, mate, Oh eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty nineteen away from one. Grant, George, please hold with
you after this one spear line if you would like
to jump aboard with back after this on Weekend Sport.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
The Tough Questions after the Weekend Sport with Jason Pine
and GJ. Gunerholmes, New Zealand's Most.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Trusted home Builder sixteen to one, White cut to three
mill ahead of Canterbury in the Farer Pummer Cup Final
after five minutes and about to score their first try
to make it. No, they haven't quite got there. Now
they have got there. There you go eight nil with
the kick to come. So Murray you might need you
might need to come back from your Red and Blacks

(30:26):
eight meal kick to come six minutes gone in the
Fara Palma Cup final. Camera Reguards on the radio with
us after one o'clock. Grant, thanks for holding.

Speaker 12 (30:33):
Yeah finally Yeah. Three years ago, I think most people
would probably agree that Latham should have been captain because
how these forms started to go down hill basically three
years ago when he was made captain, and then two
years ago his form was even worse than it was
three years ago. And last year on New Zealand's green wickets.

(30:55):
His form was absolutely diabolical. So I have to say
I wouldn't rate him even as the number four fast
bowler in New Zealand conditions on current form, and so
I don't think he should get a US Swan song.
I mean Scott Robertson said that Sam Caine wasn't pecked
on sentimentality. They get him through to one hundred, respected

(31:16):
because he was the best franker on form at the season.
And so I mean, I think there's one or two
provincial bowlers that possibly could be better than Southy. So
in my opinion, this would unless they bring him in, say,
give him some net sessions and he starts getting edges

(31:38):
and taking knocking stumps over and hiss Inland batsman at
net practice all over the place. I wouldn't pick him
against England.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Who are the provincial ballers who would perhaps be there
ahead of him.

Speaker 12 (31:52):
I knew you would say that. I just said possibly,
I mean because this form is so bad. You know,
I don't know the exact figures of museum bowlers, but
well I have even started playing forget yet though possibly,
But I mean, with you honor his current form, the
last year, How could you justify picking him.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Not in Sri Lanka and India, absolutely not on in
New Zealand conditions. Okay, so let's say they go with
four seemers, which they probably will, as Rich and I
talked about before, And you may agree. I'd love to
see a spinner in there as well, but I don't
think they will. I think they're too conservative in their
selections at home to go with a spinner. So I
think they go four seemers. So clearly Matt Henry is one,
Will O'Rourke is another, and then you're down to the

(32:39):
likes of Ben Sears, who's still very green quick, but
I probably still have him in there. Kyle Jamison, we
don't know if he's fit or not. He seems to
continue breaking things, which is a great shame. Neil Wagner's gone.
I don't think you put Scott Kougelin in there. Jacob
Duffy's probably the best one of the rest. I'd have
Soudi in their grant.

Speaker 12 (33:01):
Would you agree that he would have to show good
form in the nets to justify a match day selection, Then.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yes, I agree, yeah, And I also and I also
think you don't say okay, I've got all three Tests.
I think he plays the first Test at Hagley. See
how he goes there, and if he bowls well there,
I think you keep him there. I'm unencumbered by the
captain C. My deep hope is that Tim Saudi rediscovers
the form which has had him at the top of
the cricketing tree for large parts of the last five

(33:29):
or six years. Yes, in the last two or three
years since he took the captain C. And you have
to make the correlation. It hasn't been there. Jill and Clever,
our good friend who often joins us on the show,
talks about a three for three wickets in a Test innings.
It's being like a fifty for a batsman and a
five for us like a century. The last time Tim
Soudy took three wickets in a Test innings was in

(33:51):
March of twenty twenty three, so we took an eighteen
months ago and there's been the best part of seven
or eight Test matches since that. The last time they
took a five for was in that same series. It
was he had just taken over as captain then, so
he started off really well, got seven wickets in christ
Church and then another four and Wellington in that series.
But from there it's been pretty slim pickings for Tim

(34:13):
Southiger's captain. I hope, unencumbered by the leadership responsibility, that
he comes right and we'll keep an eye at Grant
Good to chat to you. Hello, George good Piney, How
are you good? George good?

Speaker 5 (34:26):
Hey.

Speaker 9 (34:26):
I'm attempting to draw quite a long bow here, so
feel free to tell me if I'm clutching at straws.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
But I love long bows. I love long bows.

Speaker 10 (34:34):
Go for it.

Speaker 9 (34:35):
I'll keep for your thoughts. Yet this is on the
back of your your really good view with Mike Brew
a couple of weeks ago around the Psyche of the
Orbles at the time. But you know, the last four
four weeks has seen the or Blecks give up big
leads over in Africa, the Silver Fairs, Netball the other night,
sort of give away leads in games they really should
have won. And obviously, as we're talking about now, the

(34:56):
black Cats give away a game and Trilink that they
really should have taken taken charge of, and maybe more
historically that that game over here against Australia where we
just we hit them very big time on the ropes,
and we didn't didn't take our chance. Do you think, Piney,
there is there's something worrying flowing through the high performance
pathways and mindsets of our athletes at the moment that

(35:18):
are just that are just lacking a ruthlessness or an
aggression or a confidence that is that is seeing us.
You know that that shows that there's a correlation in
all of those performances.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
I don't think the bose too long, George. I don't
think you're drawing a long bow. As you were talking,
I wrote down feet on throats, and I just don't
know whether it's in our psyche to put our foot
on someone's throat and really pushed down consistently, Because you know,
you're right, it's maybe we're just too nice, well.

Speaker 9 (35:48):
Exactly, And I know, and I know when I called
the other time, we talked a bit about the other's
trying to be a bit more like Brenda McCullum and
the Black Cats. But the thing about Brenda McCullum, you see,
installed a culture of playing fear, embracing the team, paying respects.
But he was tough and he had a look in
his eye that he could give and he could, and
he backed himself and he'd take no that good steps

(36:10):
to too fast bowlers and he'd take them on, you know,
and I think, you know, he found himself that captain
of Ben Stokes, who is exactly of that ilk. And
I just, you know, I've just reflected on our sports lot.
Are we too nice? Are we paying a little bit
too much respect to our oppositions and not not going
in for the kill when it really matters, Because those

(36:31):
three matches I just referred to, you know, we arguably
should have won all of those games, and we were
quick to talk at the end of them about the
quality of the opposition we were coming up against. But
the reality is we are there or thereabouts to win
those games, but we're not. We're not putting the foot
on the throat, as you say, plainting in the in
those critical times. And as much as I love lating

(36:51):
them and he's been a great seventh of our game,
he doesn't give off that that type of inspiration and
courageousness that he'll be aggressive and make those big players.
I think Phillips and to an extent, Darryl Mitchell are
two players in the black Caps there that have it.
I just don't think Mitchell's quite on top of his
game to command the captaincy, but he has got that

(37:12):
raw aggression to him and confidence that he bets himself.

Speaker 13 (37:16):
Well what do you think?

Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yeah, Mitchell's a really interesting one to me. I still
think back to that interview he did and maybe his
words were taking out of context when he said after
a loss to I think it was the first test
to Australia last summer when he said, you know, we
should be judged on more than just results, and at
the elite level. I don't agree with that at all.
I think you are judged on results. But he commands

(37:39):
his place in the side absolutely. I don't know. I
just like the idea of Glenn Pillip's moving forward. He
reminds me a bit of Brendan McCallum, and I wonder
what that would look like in a leadership since you know, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 9 (37:49):
No, definitely, Hay and really quickly, because I know I'm
going to get booed off soon. I've been painting the
house the last eight weeks, so you've been a constant
source of companionship. I guess I call it over the
twelve to four pm slot, So I just wanted to say, mate,
you got you a brilliant job on talk back, your show,
love your your keen eye and judgment and and always

(38:10):
keep you to ring up. But hopefully this is the
last weekend with a paint brush in hands, so you've
got to call out good performances where they are and
your show is a second to none.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Finey, So that's lovely, George. The good The irony is
is that if I was there with you, we're a
paint brush, I would be bloody hopeless, I would be useless.
So I think I think the ability to keep your
company be all like it off of, mate, So thanks
for taking the time to call in, take it easy,
to your tape, the painting, all the rest of it
goes well. Sounds like you're you're almost at the finish line,

(38:43):
my friend. I love the I love the deep thought
you gave to that to that opinion as well, good man,
seven to seven to one, you stalk se'd be back
after this. It was one of the all time great

(40:45):
examples of not being able to quite get across the line.
We were winning that race, weren't we. When the wind
dropped inexplicably, we would have won it, but as it
happened well eight one ahead losing nine to eight. E
very good example. America's Cup twenty twenty four. We've got
our challenging any Os Pretannia have beaten Luna Rossa seven

(41:11):
four in the final of the Louis Vuton Challenger Series.
So it'll be any Os Pretannia against Team New Zealand
for the thirty seventh America's Cup Final, starting next Sunday.
Mark ORMs Professor Mark ORMs after two actually on that,
on how we match up and whether whether we might
be going in a bit cold. We've hardly raced. We
haven't raced promptly. We had some races in the Louis

(41:34):
Vton early stages, but just to just to kind of
get out there really. Meantime, any Ospretenna have been racing,
you know, full on a hard out for quite a
while now. Is that going to be a factor. Yeah,
we'll get to that after two o'clock with Professor Mark ORMs.
Elise Andrews this hour as well, but one of the
most eagerly awaited rugby comebacks in recent times will play

(41:56):
out this afternoon in Palmerston, North.

Speaker 6 (41:58):
Now in the middle you'll.

Speaker 7 (41:59):
Have finally got something on the rampay, let's get rying up.

Speaker 8 (42:03):
It's fine, take in get for great is that he.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Came Roy Guard Cameroy Guards return to rugby is all
but complete, six months after undergoing surgery to repair a
ruptured p teller tendon that he suffered in Super Rugby
at the back end of March. The All Blacks and
Hurricanes halfback will turn out for Counties Manico in this
afternoon's NPC match against Mulaw Would two in Palmerston, North

(42:30):
Camera Rey Guards with us cam. Great to have you
almost back out there. How do you reflect, first of all,
on the last six months in general terms, Yeah, I.

Speaker 14 (42:40):
Guess it's been a bit of a roller coaster, thinking
right back to the injury, you know, how it sort
of happened, and how I guess how quickly the operation happened,
and just the whole process that really of rehab. It's
been yeah, quite a journey. But I feel, you know,
I'm ready to go, and yeah, it's really excited to
get back out there. Yeah, like you said in the intro,

(43:00):
it's been just over six months since my operation, so yeah,
I'm really excited to get back out there.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
What was the challenging part of the last six months,
I think.

Speaker 9 (43:10):
The early doors of the rehab.

Speaker 14 (43:12):
So for those that don't know, I had a wire
that they put him there in the operation to keep
the teller from moving so I could so I could
heal pretty much.

Speaker 7 (43:21):
And I was in a straight league brace for over
a month.

Speaker 14 (43:24):
So yeah, I guess trying to move get that flection
and extension back in my knee when I was when
I was trying to rehab at the early stages was
definitely a challenge. And I guess, yeah, just with that
fiction and extension when it sort of felt like glass
because I hadn't moved it for so long. And yeah,
everything with that wire and was a challenge. But the

(43:46):
work that we did put in in the early doors
of it the rehab was very beneficial to actually making
the milestone of getting back to playing.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Sure, did you find it hard to be patient and
to follow the plan without wanting to jump ahead?

Speaker 10 (44:03):
Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 14 (44:04):
So it was like credit to the Hurricanes medical team,
like we set a plan right at the start. We
I guess we broke it down into certain steps and
talked about how I guess if we do take our
time with the early doors of the process that will
sort of benefit us in the back end, and either
a little bit I guess and deny to start with,

(44:24):
but you know, I had full faith in them and
what they sort of believed in, So I was happy
to trust them, and I guess I was pretty lucky that,
you know, they had done some stuff with TJ with
his arkillage injury and saw what challenges he faced, so
being able to, I guess learn from his experience before
I've had mine helped in that case.

Speaker 7 (44:44):
So I wasn't I was doing what I needed to do,
but I wasn't pushing the boat out and sort of risking.

Speaker 14 (44:49):
Either rerupturing it or causing other setbacks. So yeah, just
you know, credit to them because the plan that they
set and the work that I've done to match that
has made it. I guess it's all worth while.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
How did you mentally navigate the more challenging times in
the whole proce?

Speaker 14 (45:07):
Yeah, I think it's not get looking too far ahead
and you know, start trying not to think about the
what if I don't come back and what if I'm
not you know, running as fast as I can and
all that sort of stuff. Because yeah, just thing focused
on the process, and like I said, there are lots
of little milestones that I was trying to take off,
so trying to get my flection back, which was a challenge,
but you know, every little win keep me really positive.

(45:30):
And that's where them you know that, Like I said,
the medical team, Nicole and Garrett, they were great because
I guess we're sort of celebrating those and I've done
lots of stuff with the ker Evans and David Gray,
who are the mindset coaches that there all backs and
the hurricanes, and they were great for I guess framing
up my mind mindset to tackling this challenge of rehab.

Speaker 9 (45:52):
And yeah, I think we did a good job.

Speaker 14 (45:55):
And I guess I didn't really because I was super
busy with the rehab, but don't have too much time
to sort of feel so for myself to be there, it's.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Good to hear and your documented the whole thing on
Instagram as well for a bunch of followers. How much
did that help keep you on track that you were
almost I don't know, there was a bunch of people
who just wanted to know where you were in your journey.

Speaker 14 (46:13):
Yeah, that's right, I guess then all sort of started
because I was getting so many messages about when of
my back, and you know, how does the rehab and
stuff comes. So I thought I'd just chuck it up
so enough people want to see it and they can
hear it rup from the source rather than spiculating. So yeah,
it was good to just, I guess, keep those people
in the loop that did care. And I can feel
the sort of excitement has been building over the past

(46:35):
couple of weeks as they sort of knew that I
was sort of getting pretty close to playing, and you know,
it was awesome to be back in with the All
Black last week, mixed up with them and sort of
getting used to that high intensity training and help prep
for this week. So yeah, it's been pretty cool that
I guess the support that I've had throughout the journey,
and I guess now that i'm sort of well that's playing,

(46:58):
it's yeah, it's pretty exciting, and yeah, it's pretty greatful
that I've had.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Yep, So here we are. You're about to head back
out there. Is there any part of you that feels
a bit of trepidation as you look forward to your
first game back?

Speaker 10 (47:14):
Oh?

Speaker 14 (47:14):
No, I think so, I think We've just put in
like a lot of work to get to this point,
so there's no time to sort of worry about, you know,
the waifs and the nerves and all that sort of stuff.
You know, I'm not going to let my nerves get
in the way of everything that I've done for the
past six months to sort of get me here. So yeah,
you know, I feel like I'm ready. We've had some
really good training weeks and the build up and done

(47:36):
some really good stuff to make sure that I am ready.
So I'm just going to make sure I got there
and I enjoy myself. And yeah, once I'm out there,
I just put my head down and I'm sure it's
sort of come back to me pretty quickly, hopefully. And
once I get that first tattle and first carry out
of the way, I think I think I'll be a way. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
What about match footness, Cam, do you what's your assessment
around how long it'll take your body to get used
to actually playing games of rugby again.

Speaker 14 (48:01):
Yeah, I think that's always something that you sort of
you forget about a little bit. You know, no matter
how much you know field running and all that sort
of stuff you do, it's nothing quite the same as
a game, just because of the adrenaline the contact, which
I guess to tease you a lot more than you realize.
But yeah, we've tried to do as much as we
can and training and stuff to sort of replicate that.

Speaker 6 (48:22):
So which, yeah, I guess that's just.

Speaker 14 (48:25):
Time, but it might take a couple of games, but
hopefully we have a good result on the weekend and
might get another game for the count Is in the quarterfinals.
So yeah, just trying to I guess I just feel it,
you know. I know I will wake up store on tomorrow,
which is all part of it. Yeah, Yeah, it's just
it'll be just great to be back out there and

(48:46):
hopefully I can sort of get out there and I
know that in terms of my numbers and stuff and
how I've been training unfit as I was before I
than so yeah, that'll just take to outstanding.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
And you mentioned before doing some work with Cary Evans
in the mindsett and space. How much contact have you
had with the All Blacks coaches in the last six months.

Speaker 10 (49:05):
Yeah, yeah, I've had a little bit.

Speaker 14 (49:07):
To be fair, They've been really good in terms of
keeping contact and especially like their medical team. I've had
too much to do with them, but they's been great
with checking him and sort of seeing how my progress
is going.

Speaker 4 (49:20):
And I've been floating around.

Speaker 14 (49:21):
Especially at the early stage of our rehead seeing them
and had a really good, I guess, some really good
connection with Scott Hanson, who's obviously the attack coach and
does a lot of stuff with the other halfbacks. So
it's been really good that he's sort of been doing
some stuff with me to make sure that I'm still
keeping my rugby brain on and not just switching off
completely and trying to get better even though that I'm

(49:43):
not playing. So yeah, last week, like I said, was
really great to be fully fully involved with the team
and being in all those meetings and all that sort
of stuff, which is there some just to sort of
get back in the frame of just thinking about rugby,
And yeah, it's just been really good for us. I
guess the preparation going to this week.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
How did you go watching rugby, watching the Hurricanes play,
watching the All Blacks play, How was that?

Speaker 15 (50:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 14 (50:07):
It was obviously challenging with the Hurricane.

Speaker 13 (50:09):
I was really enjoying the season that we're having.

Speaker 14 (50:11):
You know, We've had a great team, great teammates, and
we play an awesome brand of hoodie that suits.

Speaker 9 (50:15):
The way I like to play.

Speaker 14 (50:16):
So yeah, obviously when I was injured, it was pretty
hard to watch initially, but you know, we still had
an awesome year. Probably didn't well, we obviously didn't get
the result they were after, but you know, I'm had
full face that we'll be able to, you know, back
up similar performances and build on the year. Just being so,
I guess, like I say, it's just sport and everyone

(50:39):
you know has their injuries and all that sort of stuff.
So just I guess it's one of those things, which
it is what it is, but certain thing with the
All Blacks, you know, like I feel like if I
was available, I'd be able to add some value where
I can. But I haven't had too much time to
sort of dwell, and I quite enjoyed being a fan actually,
Like there's always a team that I looked up to
and love watching. So being able to, I guess, do
that again from a different perspective has been great. And yeah,

(51:02):
if I do get an opportunity to be back in
the mix for the same Northern, You're pretty excited.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Well, congrats on nailing your rehab cam almost of the day.
It's a real demonstration of following the process. Mate, congrats
on that all the best this afternoon. Thanks for taking
the time for a chat. Awesome, I thank you, Cam
cam Roy guard there about to return for Counties Manico
against Manawatu this afternoon. Of Parmeston or five pass to
that game kicks off, he'll come off the bench, as

(51:30):
will Dalton Papa Lee in that game. A bunch of
All Blacks have been released back to their provinces for
games this weekend. You Cam mentioned there that Counties they
are still in the mix for a quarter final spot.
I've just been looking at the table. So Counties currently
have twenty three points. They're sitting in ninth place. Canterbury
are eighth, Otago are seventh and Whiticutto are sixth. Now,

(51:54):
Otago won last night, but that's it for them. They're done.
So if Counties win this afternoon, they'll go one point
ahead of Otago and I don't think can be caught.
They can be caught by North Harbor. If North Harbor
win their final match of the MPC, they can be

(52:15):
caught by North Harbor. Just stay with me on this
because it's a little bit it's a little bit complicated,
but Southland play North Harbor this afternoon. If North Harbor
get a bonus point, they'll go past counties. Of counties
don't get a bonus point. I'm not going to even
try and explain this. It's so much easier for you
just to look at the table and work it out.

(52:36):
But it feels to me if Counties Manicaw win with
a bonus point this afternoon, they'll play quarterfinals. So that'll
give cam Rouygud another game next week, which is kind
of what we're after. Ready, at least one game anyway
before that before they take off the team for the
Northern Tour. Incidentally, the All Blacks team for the Northern
Tour is named on Monday two o'clock Monday afternoon, so
we'll break it all down for you on Sports Talk

(52:57):
on Monday night. But I mean, we all know cam
Roygad is going to be in that team provided he
comes through this afternoon, all right, And that just got
me to thinking he's only played five test match? Is
cam roy guard He's not an established a back All
Black by any stretch of the imagination. You remember last
year he wasn't even picked for the big games at
the Rugby World Cup. He played against Namibia, Italy and

(53:21):
Uruguay in paul play, but Finlay Christie was preferred to
him in the quarterfinal, the semi final and the final.
So and before that he debuted against Australia in Melbourne
in the Rugby Championship and then also the try we
just played for you there was when he came off
the bench against South Africa in that game at Twickenham
before the World Cup. So he hasn't rarely played a lot,

(53:45):
but such has been his impact on the side and
particularly his super rugby form that cam Roy Guard's basically
our number one half back, isn't he. If everybody's fit
and looking at this end of year tour, everybody will
be came Roy Gard. It's the number one half back,

(54:07):
isn't he. This has also got me thinking about the
makeup of this end of year Tour squad for the
All Blacks, because they'll only take three half backs and
there are four in the mix. From what I can see,
there's the three who have played the Rugby Championship, TJ Petanada,
Cortez Ratima, Noah Hotham and add Cameroy Garden there, So

(54:30):
there's four half backs, they're only going to take three,
So who doesn't go We're going to actually break this
down tomorrow. I'm going to go into more detail on this,
particularly around around the half back position and also around
the open side flanker conversation as well with Sam kin

(54:51):
So does TJ Peanada go on that tour? Does Sam
Kine go on that tour? Given the fact that we
know neither of them are going to be here beyond
the end of this year. I don't want to get
into it too much now, but want to talk about
it tomorrow. Karen. Any thoughts on Cameray guard?

Speaker 11 (55:10):
Uh?

Speaker 16 (55:11):
Yeah, mate, Yeah, I just just he is saying, all
we guards coming back into the mat. But you know,
Courtis has been playing some pretty good footing one so
you know it's going to be it's going to be
tough for him to come back, especially after that sort
of injury and make a name for himself again, That's
all I'm thinking, And especially TJ coming off the bench,

(55:33):
he's he's had pretty good impacts.

Speaker 4 (55:35):
It's going to be pretty tough for him.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Oh look, I agreed, No, Karen, I agree. Look, I
you know, without wanting to put the car before the horse.
As long as Camerga gets through today, okay, he'll be
on that tour. But you're right, I'd take I'd take
t J cam and Cortez, but but I don't know
how I would play it in terms of each Test
match as a double punch. I think beyond this year,

(55:58):
I think we can look forward to a camera re
guard Cortez ram double punch with Nulla. Hope them there
as well. That's very exciting, but the back end of
the year's fastened to me, mate, I don't know how
they're going to do it in terms of who gets
what jerseys.

Speaker 16 (56:10):
Oh yeah, look one hundred percent. I think Cortez has
done enough to cement himself and that nine jersey and
lo you said he's rugs, not an established All Black.
He did have an outstanding start to his AB's career.
But you just got to look at me and him
on a scudder when he heard that injury. It's it's man,

(56:30):
It's tough to come back from those times.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
It is a good thoughts. Karen, Thanks make yeah, because
we're going to discuss it more on the show tomorrow.
If you get the opportunity to listen, in to Colin
after midday. You want to have a good, good sort
of drilled down into what the All Blacks might do
in the half back spot for the end of year tour,
both in terms of selection and then who might play.
Like I say, beyond this year, I think we can
all look forward very much to Cortez out to my

(56:52):
Cameroy Guard and Noah Hotham really battling it out for
the positions in a match day squad. But at the
end of this year you've got to add t J
Pedinada into that mix as well. So how did they
do it? Good to check Karen, Thanks for calling. In
one twenty five, it is halftime in the Farah Parma
Cup Premiership Final seventeen all between White cut Or and Canterbury.

(57:14):
Tight game playing out there at FMG Stadium in Hamilton.
We're going to take a break when we come back.
One of the heroes, one of the real stars of
the Paris Olympic Games, Elise Andrew's, going to join us
as a network of locally owned and operated family businesses.
The GJ team are proud to support their fellow New
Zealanders on all the courts, tracks, fields and pitches. Around
the country. Since nineteen ninety seven, GJ have built over

(57:37):
twenty thousand homes in New Zealand. So if you're looking
to build, choose New Zealand's most trusted building team, GJ
Gardner Homes. GJ Gardner proud to be New Zealand's most
trusted home builder. Here to dub dub dub dot Gjgardner
dot co dot nz, or call and talk to one
of their experienced team on eight hundred forty two forty
five forty six. That website again, dubdubdub dot Gjgardner dot

(58:01):
co dot nz.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
The biggest teams in sports are on Weekend Sports with
Jason Fame and GJ Gunnerholmes, new Zealand's most trusted home
builder News Dogs they'd.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
Be one twenty nine. Elise Andrews in just a moment,
get akb.

Speaker 10 (58:17):
You mate, there's things very good.

Speaker 6 (58:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (58:21):
Hey, what's the story with Christie. I've actually watched about
his last five games and I cannot understand why he's
not in the mix. He's in my way, I think,
and he's better than all those for Finlake.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Christie, Yeah, he's playing well. I'll give you that. For Tasman.
I'm not sure that he really secured his place when
he played for the All Blacks earlier this year. KB.
I think he's still worthy of being in the conversation.
I just wonder whether he's been overtaken by the blokes
like cortiez Latma, Noah Hotham and came Roy Guard coming back.
I just don't know whether there's room for Finlay Christie.

Speaker 10 (58:57):
Yeah, well, I can't see why I watched all those
guys play. I think he's way faraster. He's more aggressive.
He's the Night four when you need them back, wouldn't
coming forward to get in there and the dirty stuff,
do you know what I mean? It's got great tacking
ability as passes, brilliant and it's quicker speedwise. So I

(59:21):
think he might have dirtied the coffee book somewhere with Razor.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
Yeah, I don't know that, Kab. Look what I'll be
interested in seeing is what they do at Tasman when
Noah Hope Them comes back. I haven't seen the Tasman
team named. I'm sure it has been named for the
Shield Challenge tomorrow. I presume Christy will start and Hope
Them will come off the bench. I thought it was
really interesting during the last month or so when they

(59:48):
released All Blacks back to their provinces, they didn't they
didn't release Noah Hotham back to Tasman, and I just
wondered at the time whether that might be because they
wanted to avoid any any possible awkwardness with Christy having
been dropped from the All Blacks and potentially dropped from
the Tasman side as well. Just checking the team. Yeah,

(01:00:09):
Christy's gonna start Noah Hope them off the bench and
the Shield Challenge tomorrow. It's a good point you make, KB.
You know, I think maybe we've forgotten a bit about
from Lake Christie. Does he have a future in the
All Blacks. He may well, we'll see what happens on
Monday at two o'clock. Thanks for taking the time to
call in. It's twenty nine to two weekends. One of

(01:00:30):
the undoubted stars of the Paris Olympic Games track cyclist
Elise Andrew. She won gold first of all on the
karen A Lap to Go.

Speaker 17 (01:00:38):
Now Elise Andrews on the inside and but she's got
the brick coming around. It's like said in the form
of Finuken, the power goes on can Alise Andrews holders.
She comes down towards the finishing line. Alise Andrews on
the line. It looks like she's won gold. Aleise Andrews intense,
incisive and vincible at the Paris Valodrome. Too much power

(01:01:01):
and too much pinash.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
And then she went on to win gold again in
the individual sprint.

Speaker 17 (01:01:06):
As Andrews cows up the track starting a move, they
worked their way around of the home straight away goes
Alise Andrews up against Leah Friedrich. Andrews comes around the bed.
She's in control, no timely, a lot of of course.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Now here she goes around the bed.

Speaker 17 (01:01:27):
Cancy pedals on your chapter in New Zealand cycling history.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
She can and less. Andrews is a Totle gold medalist
in Paris.

Speaker 17 (01:01:36):
She completes her own after tree off.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
I love it from Andrew Ordison. Two golds for Elise Andrews,
becoming the first woman to complete the sprint Kieren Olympic doubles.
She was also part of the silver medal winning team sprint,
so three medals in Paris. That was after she won
silver and the Karen at the last Olympics in Tokyo,
three golds and a silver at the twenty twenty two

(01:02:00):
Commonwealth Games and Karen gold and sprint bronze at the
World Champs last year. Year what a hole Alie Andrews is, Well,
she'll be running. You'll be running out of places to
keep all your Medalshi.

Speaker 18 (01:02:13):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 19 (01:02:15):
Yeah, I've been asked that qushion, Where am I going to?
Where am I going to keep them? I'm still thinking
on that, so we'll see, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
With a few weeks to reflect back on Paris, what
stands out the most when you think back?

Speaker 19 (01:02:27):
Yeah, I think it's it's really been quite nice having
this time and space to really reflect on the games.
And that's like quite a pattern for me. I feel historically,
you know, just needing to take some time for myself
to really think about think about the racing and reflects properly.
So I'm really grateful to have had that time. And yeah,
it's really special to look back. And I don't know
if I can pay one memorable moment, but the whole

(01:02:49):
thing was just crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
What were your hopes, your expectations, your goals going into Paris?

Speaker 18 (01:02:56):
Yes, I knew it was going to be a massive week.

Speaker 19 (01:03:00):
You know, with six days of racing out of seven,
it was going to be so tough, and so I
knew that going in, So I really just wanted to
race every race day as fast as I could. And
you know, in the individual races, that meant that I'd
be continuing to progress through the racing and hopefully make
it to the finals and that top spot.

Speaker 18 (01:03:17):
As a dream.

Speaker 19 (01:03:18):
But with the team, you know, we were rarely wanting
to hunt down a meddle, and we know that we
could be there if we put our best performance forward,
which we did on the day, and you know, getting
that silver medal was very special.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
Did the order of the events suit too? And when
you look back to the order in which they fell,
did that actually plan in your favor or did it not?

Speaker 19 (01:03:39):
I feel like it doesn't.

Speaker 18 (01:03:39):
I mean, it's nice to have the team event first.

Speaker 19 (01:03:41):
I do actually really like the order, having the team
event over one day and first, but the order of
the individual events probably not. But maybe that's just because
I'm used to it, Like I've raced that format a
couple of times before Tokyo that the Karen was first
and then this was second. Last year's Worlds was the same,
and this year's Games was the same, so potentially I'm just.

Speaker 8 (01:04:03):
Used to it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
The Karen, did you always feel and control once you
got to the back end of the care and event?

Speaker 8 (01:04:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 19 (01:04:11):
Yeah, I felt really really calm and controlled throughout the
whole competition. You know, maybe getting that first rack out
other way is always quite a nice feeling, but you know,
after that, I really did feel like I could just
you know, sort of breathe and relax into my racing
and make the best decisions possible was what was happening
around me, And so I did feel really calm and

(01:04:32):
in control and I but obviously and coming into the final,
that was just I just gave it absolutely everything I had.

Speaker 18 (01:04:38):
There was no control in the final.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
You just have to go full guests, Is that one
of the one of the keys to it, to leaving
enough in the tank that when it comes to that
final you can just give it absolutely everything.

Speaker 8 (01:04:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 19 (01:04:51):
I think if that's possible then yes. And that's something
that I don't think I have done very well in
the past. And I think that's just an age saying
and experience is really kind of reading the race and
you know, not using all of your energy to get
to the finish line first. They are smart ways to race,
and so that's kind of a change that I really
did feel this games is that I could make those

(01:05:13):
just tiny, tiny decisions that would I mean, they had
a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
And if you left at the end, I think you
were I presume this is true and you might be
able to tell me that you were probably favorite for
the Karen, did that give you any extra pressure or motivation?
How did that make you feel that really people thought
that you were the one who was going to be
on the top of the podium.

Speaker 18 (01:05:32):
Oh, thank you? Maybe a little bit.

Speaker 19 (01:05:35):
I think that also, I'm not sure because there were
quite a few girls that we talked about for that
sort of that glory top spot and so and it
wasn't always it wasn't always me. So I feel like
it wasn't crazy, crazy pressure at least I felt anyway,
because realistically there were many girls that you know, could

(01:05:56):
push for that top spot, and the media in different
countries obviously were favoring their athletes.

Speaker 18 (01:06:01):
So yeah, so I didn't always feel that feel that pressure.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
What about the I mean, with all due respect, I'm
not sure that you were absolute favorite for the sprint.
You were probably one of the bunch. You were a
bunch of one of a bunch of writers who may
or may not be there. So how did you approach
the sprint.

Speaker 19 (01:06:15):
Yeah, I definitely wasn't a favorite, but you know, I
approached it knowing that I needed to.

Speaker 18 (01:06:22):
Qualify further up the field than I have historically.

Speaker 19 (01:06:26):
So in the past, you know, I've sort of been
around that maybe eighth to eleventh place qualifying from the
two hundred, and then I've had to race my way
up into into the top positions, which is a really
tough way to do things.

Speaker 18 (01:06:40):
But you know, we've done a lot of work on
that two hundred.

Speaker 19 (01:06:42):
In the last a little while, and so I knew
that if I could get that right and nail that,
then I would qualify further up in the field. So
that was the first box to tick, and then from
from that point on it was just you know, focusing
one race at a time.

Speaker 18 (01:06:56):
And yeah, I wasn't a favorite.

Speaker 19 (01:06:58):
It was definitely an upset that I was in the
final ahead of some of some of the other girls,
but yeah, just the what it happens.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
I think some of my favorite images of Paris are
you staring down Leah Friedrich before the sprint final. Do
you do you enjoy that side of the event that
I don't know whether it's psyching someone out or do
you do you enjoy that sort of thing though?

Speaker 19 (01:07:24):
Yeah, I mean it is Sprinting is a bit interesting.

Speaker 18 (01:07:28):
Sport and interesting you know discipline, and you know that
is part of it, and.

Speaker 19 (01:07:33):
I think it's not always just like freak someone out,
you know, like I do have to have eyes on
my opponent at all times, and I think for me
that's like a nice mental switch is to have that
have that moment where you roll up to the start
line and you are looking at your opponent because that's
what you're going to need to be doing to be
aware of where they are on the track, and so that's.

Speaker 5 (01:07:53):
Part of it.

Speaker 19 (01:07:54):
But then also knowing that you know it is that
sort of mental mental game side of it as well.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Yeah, I love it. Can you give us some insight
into the influence of your coach, your dad John, Yeah, Oh.

Speaker 18 (01:08:07):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 19 (01:08:08):
He came on board less than a year before the
Games after our previous coach, Neck had to move back
to Australia with his family. So that was a real
surprise and probably reasonably truthful at the time to think,
you know, we are coach lest going into the Games.
But you know, it just worked out really well that

(01:08:30):
John had just been Australia coaching over there and then
finally come back to New Zealand.

Speaker 18 (01:08:35):
And was working in an art consultant contractor role.

Speaker 19 (01:08:39):
Sorry, and so it just worked out that he was
able to apply to the job and come on board.
So yeah, it's been great to have him on board.
It's been really special. It's been such whirlwind of a time,
I think him coming on board, especially because of how
late he came on and the piece, but I think
we've been able to do some really great work together.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
Interesting I heard you call him John there? Is that
what you do when he's coaching here? You don't call
him dad?

Speaker 10 (01:09:04):
No, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Is it an interesting dynamic though, because at the end
of the day, he's your dad, you know, you're his daughter.
Was he able to I don't know, be proud, but
also be able to coach you in a way that
that would you know, that would get the best out
of you?

Speaker 19 (01:09:20):
Oh yeah, I think like when it comes to racing,
like he's coaching me as a coach and that sort
of celebration as a family comes afterwards. Just like all
the other athletes, you know, they are track sided with
their coach, and then later on, after they're finished warming
down and throat testing and media and all of that
is when you can actually celebrate with your family.

Speaker 18 (01:09:39):
So I think that was kind of how.

Speaker 19 (01:09:40):
It worked for us, is that, you know, obviously we
were soaked to be there together, but it was sort.

Speaker 18 (01:09:46):
Of in that professional capacity until we could have.

Speaker 19 (01:09:49):
Some family time with you know, my mum and my
partner and grandparents later on.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Very cool. All right, So do you get a break
and what's next?

Speaker 19 (01:09:57):
Yes, I do get a break, which is quite refreshing.
It's been nice to be able to go home, to
do a little bit of travel around the South Island
and and visit some of my favorite places. And next
I will be getting back into training properly on the
track in October, and then I have a series cool

(01:10:18):
Champions League in Europe over November December, so I'll be
heading over to Europe November.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
All right, And do you have eyes on twenty twenty eight?

Speaker 6 (01:10:28):
Yes? I do, Yeah, I do.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
Excellent. I think that's all we need to know about
that at the moment, right at the start of a
new Olympic cycle. Alicia gave us some other way you
gave us, citizen. Indeed, you gave us some amazing moments
in Paris. Congratulations, all your hard work paid off. Thank
you for taking the time for a chat.

Speaker 18 (01:10:43):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 5 (01:10:44):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
Alise Andrews. There Golden girl or one of them at
the Paris Olympic Games. Good to know she's going around again.
Who knows what she might achieve over the next four years.
Two golds and a silver this time around. We don't know,
of course, where the track cycling will be at the
Glasgow Commonwealth Games still to be decided, what the program
will be there, but World Championship etc. She just seems

(01:11:07):
like an absolute diamond, doesn't share. Alise Andrews and someone
who's going to, I'm sure, enjoy a lot more success
over the months and years ahead. Eighteen away from two,
We'll take a break, come back and cross the Tasman.
Adam Peacock, our Australian correspondent in his regular slot.

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
Up next, Don't get caught Offside Call eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty Weekend Sports with Jason Paine and GJ.
Guvnerhomes New Zealand's most trusted home builder News Sogs.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
NB one forty five fifteen minutes gone, second half far
a Palma Cup Premiership Final Canterbury lead Way Cuttle twenty
two seventeen. This is going to be an exciting final
quarter or final twenty five minutes of that game in Hamilton.
Andrew on texays. In my view, Elise should win New
Zealand sports Person of the Year at the Hallberg's. Her

(01:11:54):
performance was totally dominant in a major global sport. She
was so much better than her opponents. Andrew at such
an interesting point Sportswoman of the Year, I mean, good
luck picking that, right, Alice Andrews, Dame Lisa Carrington, Lydia Coe.
How do you separate those three? They've all had absolutely

(01:12:16):
spectacular years. So yeah, it almost seems unfair to choose
one over the others. But you feel as though whoever
wins Sportswoman of the Year may well win the Supreme Helburg.
That's for others to decide, not for us to decide. Thankfully,
let's get across the Tasman. Australian correspondent Adam Peacocker's with
us RL Grand Final tomorrow night, Adam Storm v. Panthers,

(01:12:41):
the clash we always thought we'd get the one we wanted.
Who wins this.

Speaker 5 (01:12:47):
Well.

Speaker 13 (01:12:47):
Foot to the coin generally is piney, good afternoon. It's
really tough to cut through it because penris of I mean,
they're in their sixth straight Grand Finals and for their
fourth straight, when Melbourne have all of a sudden revitalized
themselves in are playing some really quick attacking footage. So
you've got the one have been there, done that, the
ones that look like they're about to go there and

(01:13:09):
do that, And it's really difficult to match out because
they even each other out so well.

Speaker 9 (01:13:14):
They're so good that they're clearly that.

Speaker 13 (01:13:16):
There's two teams. So I'm just leaning towards Penrith by
virtue of the fact that they can sorry Melbourne by
virtue of the fact that they can play a little
bit quick. I see, there you go. I haven't even
confused about Manu. It's that close. But it should be
a great game of footy, and it's going to be
dry as well. You know what I say about dry
whether footage ten times better than wet weather footage. So yeah,
this will be a spectacle this will be a damn

(01:13:38):
good game of regular league, just on the fact that they.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Are clearly the two best sides. How big is the
gat back? Because I mean the Storm gave it to
the Roosters, you know, last weekend, and the Rooster's not
a bad side, but they're nowhere near clearly nowhere near
the Storm, probably no where near the Panthers. How big
is the gat back from these two?

Speaker 13 (01:13:55):
I reckon that these two play any other team, they
beat them nine times out of ten at the moment.
That's how significant I think it is when when the
stakes are high, like a Grand Final qualifier, that's how
that's how big it is at the moment. And there
are a few factors why it's happened like that, but
it's it's good that it's there's two of them and
not like just one of them and everyone's just rocking

(01:14:17):
up to a Grand Final tom I thinking, well, can
I keep it within twenty? That's not the case. So yeah,
clearly the best too. And we get it's like a
title fight almost. It's yeah, you know, you just want
to say it happened and start.

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
Yep, can't wait for tomorrow night. Okay, Women's t twenty
Cricket World Cup. I'm sure you've caught up with the
news that the White Ferns beat into your hair opening match.
Australia have won the last three of these. Is your
confident they'll make it four.

Speaker 13 (01:14:42):
Without being arrogant? How can you not be? Because they've
got they've got such well balanced side and sometimes it
doesn't quite work out looks like that. I mean, look,
Meg Lanning has given the game one. I think one
by one, these big players like Alisa Healey, who all
worked with over here in Australia and she's magnificent, and
Keen the captain this side, Alise Perry, one by one

(01:15:03):
doll dripped away in the next four to five years.
But we've got this undercurrent coming through and it's because
we've got such a strong WBBL the domestic Women's Tea
twenty competition that runs here in early summer, and I
think New Zealand have benefited from that particular competition. We
see Sophy Devine over here all the time emearly occur
as a big addition to the Sydney Sixers, and they're

(01:15:26):
two of the KeyWe's best players. And look what they've
done to India. Overnight, so and India send players here
as well. So I think Australia's depth is their key,
and they've got selection issues who to lead out and
that's the dam good problem. So they play shal Anchor
first up. They've got to get out of that. They've
got to get going. Should be okay in that one.
But yeah, really happy for the Kiwei's and it blows
the tournament wide open because India are expected to be

(01:15:47):
with Australia there at the finish. But that's massive, especially
with that run rate as well.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
Indeed, and Australia against New Zealand early as of Wednesday
morning as well, so we'll look forward to that one. Another.
One of your female teams are the absolute juggernaught that
is the Matilda's football team. I've got a change of coach,
Tony Gustafson replaced in an inter or placed an interim charge.
You'll replaced an interim charge by Tom Somani, who of
course was in charge of our football firms for a while.

(01:16:13):
Who are the favorites for the permanent role as head
coach of the Matilda's moving forward.

Speaker 6 (01:16:18):
There's no one yet.

Speaker 11 (01:16:19):
Pine.

Speaker 13 (01:16:20):
It's really weird that I think they're happy to really
take their time because there's no qualifiers on the horizon,
there's no tournament on the horizon that there will be
soon there'll be in a women's Asian Cup to really
play for. But the Tommy Somani and I don't know,
if you got to know him, he's one of the
best blokes going around. He would just take the air
out of the room. You know, you just get every

(01:16:40):
under the chill out. You'll get everyone on the same page. Look,
a lot of these players, like the Sam Kurk, Caitlin Ford.
Tom gave the Matilda's debutsu in his first first crack
at Matilda's coach. So I mean, it could work out
that the whole squad just love working under time and
they bring in another assistant who you know might be
more modern and not calling Tom not modern, but like

(01:17:02):
a younger freshman face to be the assistant, and Tom
might be to pick ahead and oversee things that that
might be the way they go, or they do actually
get someone in of international recognition. There's no real candidates
from the women's game here in Australia. They could go
men an excell Untilda won't mention her name, but she said,
why don't we go for someone like a John Ala Wissy,
which you know, okay, someone from the men's game to

(01:17:25):
come over. So we'll wait and see. But I think
all options are still on the table, and they're really
going to take.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
That time with this one, as you just before you
go the men's side, Tony Popovitch and charged there now,
of course, of the soccer us named his first squad
in the last couple of days. How has his appointment
been been received after you know, sort of a week
or so of time since the announcement was made.

Speaker 13 (01:17:46):
Yeah, and in eighties first squad yesterday, So bringing back
plays by mass Lolongo and giving young mission for Looplay
from Melbourn victory. A player that you've obviously sent a
few times over there, Pioney given his chance in a
soccer has squed. So a few changes, a few adjustments,
but nothing holds are Yeah, like it's hard, it's hard
to bag. It's not as if we're riding on the

(01:18:06):
streets about this appointment. It's fine. He was the next
next cab off. He was without a club job. He
was easy access. He loves the soccer, as he's made
that very very clear in his press conference yesterday, says
I'm not doing sales pitches the players. If they want
to play, they make themselves available, then it's up to
meet a picking. But I'm not just going to ring
up people and say please play for me. It's not

(01:18:27):
going to happen.

Speaker 11 (01:18:28):
So I like that.

Speaker 8 (01:18:29):
I like that.

Speaker 13 (01:18:30):
So yeah, and he's brought in some soccer's experience with
Hayden fouls and Paul O'Connors and his assistance as well.
So I mean we'll waiting see you. I mean they've
got Japan away as their second match. I think judgment
will be cast after that one next week.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
All right, Well, it's great chatting Australian sport with you, Adam.
Thanks for taking the time. We'll do it again next Saturday.

Speaker 13 (01:18:46):
Good funny one.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
You have a good one too, mate. Thanks indeed, Adam Peacock.
There our regular Australian correspondent with matters from across the
Tasman just on the NRL Grand Final. We're going to
give this a firm focus on the show tomorrow. Going
to check to Tawara Nikow of course, former Melbourne Storm player,
one of our greats, and Ryan Girdler who was a
very prominent member of Penrith Panthers teams in years gone by,

(01:19:11):
So yet, don't worry, we will give full focus to
the NRL Grand Final on the show tomorrow. Whykut, I've
just kicked a penalty so with eighteen minutes to go
they led Canterbury twenty seven twenty two in the Farah
Palmer Cup Premiership Final. Forums on that and coaching guru

(01:21:46):
Wayne Goldsmith on what the best way to conduct an
end of season reviewers? What are the things you should
look at? What are the things you shouldn't bother with?
And why do we do reviews at all? Shouldn't teams
and organizations be constantly monitoring their performance? Why do we
have them at the end of the year. All that
to come lines of communication open, oh, eight hundred and

(01:22:08):
eighty ten eighty for a phone called nineteen ninety two
for a text nine past two, As we always do
at around about this time on weekend sport. It's trying
to fire up the rocky music and bring you up
today with some of the stuff that might have escaped
your attention. We call it in cash. Mister any McDonald
puts it together every Saturday and Sunday and we start
in the Australian National Basketball League, Melbourne United picking up

(01:22:31):
a berg win over the Perth Wildcats, writing some hot
shooting from former NBA player Ian Clark. Is Clark at
the other end thoughts.

Speaker 14 (01:22:39):
Class Yeah, absolutely as Clark is once again rocking and rolling.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
This is an annihilation at the moment. Ninety seven sixty
eight Melbourne United getting the win closer to home. The
Tacomata with Queens have become our have begun rather our
women's competition to eat heat and winning fashion against the
Southern hoy halk Look at this splitting the gap park
out through hard back to back bath into the Queen's

(01:23:07):
huge seventy three sixty eight The Tocamana were Queen's winning
that one to the Bunnings end. PC Otago have kept
their hopes of playoff rugby alive against Northlands goes back
to Hasty. Hasty gives it to Miller who kicks it
into touch.

Speaker 13 (01:23:21):
Came over and Otago have done what they set out
to do and they are into the eights momentarily.

Speaker 2 (01:23:30):
Yet thirty one twenty eight winners. They wait for the
rest of the results to see if they'll play quarter
final rugby to the NFL. The Atlanta Falcons have managed
to steal a win from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. That's fired,
that's caught, and that is harge and Harje is going
to take it to the end zone. The most improbable

(01:23:50):
win for the Atlanta Falcons. Thirty six points to thirty
the Atlanta Falcons winning that one to the T twenty
Cricket World Cup for Women. South Africa starting their campaign
with a ten wicket win over the West Indies. We'll
fight it drives and.

Speaker 13 (01:24:06):
As you would expect, she drives to finish the game
for South Africa and get.

Speaker 2 (01:24:10):
A crucial two points in Group B and a football.
A late goal has allowed Manchester United to escape Porto
with a drawer in the Europa League corner.

Speaker 7 (01:24:21):
A thunder attender from Harry McGuire, boy Manchester United needed.

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
That's quite a night in Porto. It's back to back
DAWs to start the Europa League campaign.

Speaker 6 (01:24:33):
For man fifty nine.

Speaker 1 (01:24:35):
The School from the drag Field and the Court on
your home of Sport Weekend Sport with Jason Vine News Talks.

Speaker 19 (01:24:42):
In B, the White Ferns have broken the ten game
losing streak with an essential victory against India innd.

Speaker 2 (01:24:51):
The White Ferns have recorded a comprehens of fifty eight
run win over India in their opening match at the
T twenty World Cup in Shaja, New Zealand made one
hundred and sixty for four in their twenty overs, Sophie
Devine leading the way with an unbeaten fifty seven off
thirty six deliveries. India bowled out for one hundred and two,
Rosemary Mayor taking four wickets and lea to who who three?

(01:25:14):
Let's bring in former White Ferns all round are in
sixty matches across T twenty and One Day International formats.
Now commentator and cricket analyst Frankie McKay. Frankie, thanks for
joining us. This looks really convincing. One sixty for four
plays one hundred and two all out. Did you see
this coming after ten straight defeats for the White Ferns
in this format?

Speaker 15 (01:25:36):
Yeah, I actually will will admit that.

Speaker 14 (01:25:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 15 (01:25:39):
I had a little inkling there that it could be
a successful game for the White Suns. I just thought
with the way that they played in Australia, I thought
there were lots of good signs in the T twenty
games leading it to this world cut. I think then
the way they went into their warm up games, I
think there were lots of positives and I actually reckoned
from from having a look at those warm up games.
I saw the opposite in India. I think they looked

(01:26:00):
a little underdone. I think they looked a little rusty,
and they've kind of come out and they've said, this
is our best T twenty two ever. We've got a
sports cycle on board now, we are so prepared to
have a crack at this and I just thought, actually,
I think that potentially they're anything but So it really
felt like the New Zealand side were in a really
good place to be able to try and take them
on right from game one, and I think they did.

(01:26:22):
They came out with great intent, openers put on a
really good partnership to get things started. India looked rattled
and the really pleasing thing for me with that New
Zealand side is they just didn't take the foot off
the throats. They just did not give an inch back.
So really for me, really really pleasing science to kick
things off.

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
Sophie Devine was fairly bullish in the postmatch press conference,
insisting they've been playing this way and not getting the results.
Is that valid Frankie or did something change?

Speaker 15 (01:26:48):
I think there's a little bit of validity to it.
I think that the way that they have worked over
the last year or two on how they want to
play cricket has They've been really strong in their ideas
on what they want to do. And I think it's
always hard because they haven't been necessarily actually gone out
and played that well. And so I think the ideas
have been there of how they want to play, how
they want to take the game on, but they just

(01:27:08):
haven't actually been able to execute it. So I think
it takes a really strong team to be able to
cop some of the criticism and deal with some of
the outside noise around the results and how things are going,
and actually be able to kind of stick to script
and stick to that. They know that when they play well,
this is what the performance is going to look like,
and it's just trying to put those things in place.
So I think it can be a little hard at

(01:27:29):
times to justify that to the outside world. I think
it's hard when you're not winning games to keep saying, well,
actually we're doing the right stuff, We're training really hard
we're taking all the right boxes. We know this performance
is there, but no one else sees it quite yet.
So I think really good for them. And it's just
a little bit of self belief as well. You know,
you winning is a habit. If you continue to lose

(01:27:50):
those games, that will chip away a bit as a
self belief. So the fact that they are able to
get a win and a big win to start things off,
I mean, I think they're in a really good place,
and I actually think that team knows they're in a
really good place as well.

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
Now rose from a four for nineteen lea to her
who's three for fifteen. A pace bowl is going to
be a bit more important than we thought they might
be at this World Cup.

Speaker 15 (01:28:12):
Yeah, you get to see a little bit of a
difference between the two venues, between Dubai and shar Ja.
You're going to expect that perhaps as well under lights
that the seamers are going to have to do a
little bit more of the work. The ball is going
to go around a little bit. And also I think
that as the tournament progresses, that's where you'll maybe see
that the spinners come into it more. They got the
tournament a little bit last minute, so maybe the preparation

(01:28:34):
and the amount of surfaces they've got ready to go
won't quite be as per Norman. Obviously, it's roasting hot
over there. I think of thirty eight to thirty nine
degrees to the game. So I think the longer the
tournament goes on, the more you're going to see the
spinners come into it. And teams have definitely gone over
with plenty of spin bowling resource, but early games have
shown there's definitely a little bit early on for the

(01:28:55):
Seamas and they can put some real pressure onto now.

Speaker 2 (01:28:58):
Only the top two in each of the five team
groups make the Semis. Three time defending champions Australia in
our group, so this is probably a silly question, but
how big a result is this against India to our
tournament hopes of progressing through to the semifinals?

Speaker 8 (01:29:13):
Oh?

Speaker 15 (01:29:14):
Massive, massive. I mean you look at the way the
pools were drawn, and everyone's kind of talked about our
pools the pool of dish a little bit, and that
you had to be right on the ball right from
game one. You've got India first, you play Australia second.
You run the risk that if you don't win one
of those first two games, then next year your tournament's
all but over and a little bit like what we
saw with the Black Cats at the recent T twenty

(01:29:35):
World Cup. If you're not on your game to start with,
then it's over very very quickly. So I love the
way that this White Since team, they've had that series
against Australia, they've had warm up games, they are fully prepared,
ready to go, and they've shown it right from game one.
The cool thing is now if they turn up and
they beat Australia, it puts a lost next to India
or a lost next to Australia. Those two teams then

(01:29:56):
have to play each other. Only one of them is
getting out of it with a win, so that basically
will end the tournament for one of the i'd say
the two top favorites to go home with the cup.
So I don't think you can you can understate.

Speaker 9 (01:30:07):
This result at all.

Speaker 5 (01:30:08):
I think it is huge for this New Zealand team.

Speaker 15 (01:30:11):
I think the confidence they're going to gain from it,
the fact that it puts you in contention. You winter
more games, you're talking semi finals, and then all of
a sudden, you've only got to win two games a
cricket from there and you're going home with the big
carp at a big fat check as well. So I
think that is it's massive.

Speaker 18 (01:30:25):
It will put a real dent in the confidence of
India as well.

Speaker 15 (01:30:28):
They've got a lot of pressure on their shoulders. And
look the way the Australian team has played that recent
series against US, played their warm up games. They are
very beatable and I think every team around the world
at the moment is looking at them saying, hey, they've
come to a World Cup with with no Meg Lanning
not playing that well. Actually, this is our time to
tip them up. And the Australian goes they'll feel the
pressure too. They will definitely feel the pressure of expectation,

(01:30:51):
being defending chance. So for mine, I think you could
not have scripted a better win contributions from your top order.
Seama is doing a good job than is contributing. It
just felt like one of those performances where you know,
if you're the coaching staff, you go home and could
not be happier.

Speaker 18 (01:31:07):
With how that started.

Speaker 2 (01:31:08):
Brilliant summary, Frankie. A very good way to start for
the White Ferns. Long Mathers continue over the next month
or so, thanks for taking the time for a chat
as always, Oh no.

Speaker 18 (01:31:16):
Worst plant.

Speaker 15 (01:31:17):
It always eaby to talk, especially when we're winning, and
hopefully we get to talk about winning a World Cup too.

Speaker 6 (01:31:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:21):
Well, let's hope, so Frankie, let's hope. So it started
off pretty well, Frankie McKay joining us, former White Ferns
all rounder and now cricket commentator. So yeah, one hundred
and sixty for four New Zealand, Susie Bates and Georgia
Plumber opening up well, Susie Bits twenty seven off twenty
four deliveries, Georgia Plumber thirty four off twenty three, Miny
Kerr were thirteen batting at number three. Then Sophie Divine

(01:31:42):
fifty seven not out of thirty six deliveries, helped along
by Brooke Halliday with sixteen off twelve and then an
unbeaten five off three from Maddy Green eight runs and
over in T twenty particularly women's Tea twenty is probably
above par, and then India all out one hundred and two,
Rosemary Mayor four for nineteen, lea to who Who three
for fifteen, a couple of wigets for Eden Carson and

(01:32:04):
one for Millie Kerr as well, very comprehensive a fifty
eight run win. Next up Australia three o'clock Wednesday morning,
New Zealand time. I think we can go into that
game with renewed hope and optimism. Just had a text
before actually from a former New Zealand women's cricket captain
and very astute observer of the game, and it was

(01:32:26):
her observation that clearly Susie Bates and Georgia Plumber have
just been told to go for it from the start,
which feels like a pretty natural thing to do in
teach twenty cricket, isn't it just go for it and
if you can't hit out, get out. Yeah, there's been
a bit of criticism and Sophie Divine referenced it in
the postmatch media conference about the batting order and whether

(01:32:49):
Sophie Divine herself should be opening the batting You only
got one hundred and twenty deliveries, so why shouldn't she
face more of them or as many of them as possible.
Clearly that I have decided their top four is Bates, Plumber,
Kerr and Divine. It certainly worked this morning, So yeah,
let's hope for more of the same against Australia in
the next game on Wednesday morning. We have our far

(01:33:09):
O Palma Cup Premiership Champions. It is White Cuttle. They've
beaten Canterbury twenty seven twenty five in a cracking final
at FMG Stadium, White Cuttle in Hamilton. Congratulations to the
White Cutter team Premier Champions and the Farah Palmer Cup
for twenty twenty four. And just updating you on Bunning's
NPC action from Massi University in Palmerston North. That's where

(01:33:33):
this game is being played. County's Manica against Unawatu Munawtu five.
Counties Menica seven after fourteen minutes in that game, so
pretty even early on in that one. Two twenty one.
When we come back we'll take to the water. We
have our challenger for the America's Cup in the OS
Britannia against Team New Zealand starting next Sunday. Professor Mark

(01:33:54):
Orham's going to break down how any Os Britannia did
it and how big a threat they posed to Team
New Zealand to win it off us in a thirteen
or best of thirteen race series. Arting next Sunday, Professor
Mike orams Is with us after this on News Talk CP,
host of Barcelona.

Speaker 17 (01:34:11):
Bannia rules the waves La Mediterranean.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
Well, it's seven for victory if we talked up and
we'll meet Emirates Team New Zealand. Yes, Aeos Britannia will
attempt to pry the old mug from the kiwis. After
beating Luna ross A seven to four in the Challenger
Series final, the Sir Ben Ainsley led boat needed just
the one victory overnight to seal their spot in the
Cup match, winning the first of the two races planned.

(01:34:37):
The Cup match is scheduled to begin next Sunday, New
Zealand time. Let's bring in former New Zealand and World
champion sailor Team New Zealand member and now Professor of
Sport and Recreation at the Auckland University of Technology, Professor
Mark orams Mark. It was four all in the race
to seven very even, but Ineos Britannia won the last three.
So what changed?

Speaker 6 (01:35:00):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (01:35:00):
I just think that Anios Bretanna has been the team
that's shown the most improvement over this entire series and
in fact they're a bit average right back in the
preliminary gatter sort of six weeks ago. But what they've
managed to do is to be the most improved team.
And while it was certainly a battle all the way
through the first part of this SLU Button Challenger Finals,

(01:35:21):
once they really got the advantage, they just pressed at home.
And actually, looking back on the career of Sir Ben Ainsley,
this is a pattern for him. He is really ruthless
and when he gets his tail up, he is very
very difficult to stop and that permeates throughout the entire team.
So the boats were incredibly evenly matched. But those last

(01:35:41):
three races, Syvin Ainsley as the starb at Helm dominated
the start and then got the first cross and then
just shut down the race from there for three straight
winds to close it out.

Speaker 2 (01:35:51):
Apart from dominating the start spetter, where did the other
main improvements come across the last couple of months or so.

Speaker 5 (01:35:59):
Yeah, they've introduced a few new pieces of kit, but
nothing remarkably different. What they've learned to do is just
totally sail the boat better. They've focused very much on
just trying to get their moting right. They changed a
few of their routines in terms of their mark roundings,
and they've just slowly incrementally improved and that's been a

(01:36:19):
remarkable thing to watch. Actually, I certainly see them as
a team that's well worthy of taking on Team New Zealand.
And it's not just their improvement, of course, the other
advantage that they have is the momentum of and the
race readiness they'll have of seventeen pretty tough races over
the last two and a half weeks. Well, meanwhile, Team

(01:36:41):
New Zealand's had none, So it's going to be interesting
and a big challenge for Team New Zealand, who come
in a little bit cold in terms of race readiness
next weekend. And whereas anyos Britannia's nailed down a prestart routine,
they've shown that they've got the ability to make the
correct key decisions at critical moments to shut down a race.
If they get their nose in front, they're going to

(01:37:01):
be pretty hard to get past.

Speaker 2 (01:37:03):
All right, I want to talk more about the America's
Cup match in a moment, just on Lunarossa Mark. How
will they reflect on their regatta?

Speaker 18 (01:37:11):
Well, I think in.

Speaker 5 (01:37:11):
Many ways they'll rue the gear breakages they had. Two
races were handed to Britannia because the gear breakages on
Lunarossa at this level, that's enormously disappointing for them. In contrast,
Britannia's had an incredibly reliable boat that they've just had
complete faith in, whereas Lunarossa not. So I'm not saying

(01:37:31):
they would have won those races, but certainly you hand
two points like that in a really even series, that's
not something that anybody would want. I'm incredibly impressed with
the way that they've sailed, and perhaps it's worth reflecting
because Jimmy Spittle has announced his retirement overnight from America's
Cup Sailing. An amazing leader, what an amazing competitor he

(01:37:55):
has been over twenty years in the sport, and his
calm presence on board, his communication, his evenness no matter
whether they are in front or behind, or whether something
had gone wrong or not, deeply, deeply impressive. And I
know that as key, we love to hate an opponent
and we remember the sort of heartbreak of San Francisco

(01:38:19):
and cast Jimmy Spittle as a villain then, but actually
he's a decent guy, great sailor and an extremely good
leader that he's developed into over the years.

Speaker 2 (01:38:28):
Indeed. All right, let's look at the America's Cup match.
You talked about Team New Zealand potentially going in cold,
having not had any competitive racing since the early stages
of the Leuis Vaton, which of course didn't really count anyway,
but they at least they got out on the water.
How do they negate that, because, as you say, any
Ospritannia are coming in hot.

Speaker 5 (01:38:47):
Yeah, they sure are, and that's quite difficult to negate.
So first things first is they need to concentrate on
ensuring that they get the pre start and the start right,
and they will have been doing a lot of homework
around that. So they need to have a playbook so
you know, if they do this, then we do that
and if they respond.

Speaker 13 (01:39:06):
Here, we will do this.

Speaker 5 (01:39:07):
So they pre planned all of that out and that
they have that playbook and routine or the choreography really
clear in their mind so that they don't go into
it having to react and respond to Sir Ben Ainsley's aggression,
because that's what he will want. If they go in
in that sort of situation, they'll get owned. So they

(01:39:27):
need to really get their routines and playbooks sorted and
to implement that and to have the ability to actually
take the initiative as opposed to respond. What they want
is at a minimum to get off even to get
clean and even off the line, and then they will
have confidence in Team New Zealand that ty hood of
their boat will have at least even and possibly a

(01:39:51):
speed edge. So if you can get off the line clean,
if you can manufacture that first cross in front, then
you have the ability to close down the race. What's
going to be much more difficult as if they're behind.
With the boundaries in these mouldern America's Cup co and
how short the races are they're around twenty minutes in length,
it's really difficult to manufacture a pass if the opponent

(01:40:14):
in front of you doesn't make any mistakes. So beyond
the priority of the prestart and the start and trying
to just get your nose in front, they'll need to
also have a playbook about how they if they are behind,
don't try and roll the dice and take a high
risk early on and fall further behind, but just to
keep it close, keep chipping away and look for the

(01:40:35):
opportunity to manufacture a pass. So they know all this
the challenge of courses, they haven't had the chance to
implement it in quite some time, and as you pointed
out in the round robins, it counted for nothing for them,
so very different when the pressure is on. So composure
will be a big focus for the Team New Zealand
crew over this America's Cup series.

Speaker 2 (01:40:57):
Just for reference, Mike on that difficulty in passing movements
during the race, how often during the whole regatta have
passed has been successfully implemented by any of these boats well, and.

Speaker 5 (01:41:12):
Certainly in the finals less and less so, and that's
because the boats were so evenly matched. Interesting that that
Anyos Britanna and Lunarossa Prataparelli actually quite different boats design wise,
their foil packages different, even where they position their sailors
and foil flight controllers on the boat is different. And
yet they were so incredibly even in terms of their

(01:41:32):
boat speed across a wide range of conditions. So that's
what really surprised me. But when you've got really even
boat speed, as is tradition and match racing sailing, the
start and the first cross is incredibly important, but it's
different if you have speed differential, So earlier in the

(01:41:53):
comp in the round robins when we had greater differences
in speed, then you did see a number of passes
where a slower boat that was in front managed to
get a good start, eventually comes under pressure and the
trailing boat who's a little bit quicker can crack them
and then when they get past them, they stretch. So
Team New Zealand did that a couple of times in
the round robin. So it's still a boat speed race.

(01:42:17):
So Team New Zealand has been busy, even though they're
not race ready, they've been busy developing their boat further.
They had old sales on during the round robin, they
didn't have their final foil configuration, so they will be
hoping and perhaps have some confidence that the package that
they've developed is going to have an edge and they will.

(01:42:38):
If stay can make that stick and they can get
good start and not end up getting owned by Sir
Ben Ainsley in the pre starts, then I think that's
their best shot.

Speaker 2 (01:42:50):
Team New Zealand against in the OS Britannia. From Nick Sunday,
New Zealand Time for the thirty seventh America's Cup. Mark
love chatting sailing with you. Thanks so much for your.

Speaker 5 (01:42:57):
Expertise pleasure pine it thanks mate.

Speaker 2 (01:42:59):
No, thank you mate. That's Mark Orams, Professor Mark ORMs
with some real deep understanding of sailing. Obviously, it's Britannia
up against Team New Zealand starting next Sunday morning, New
Zealand time, same format as the Louis Bitton a best
of thirteen series. So the first boat to claim seven
race wins will claim the America's Cup, first contested back

(01:43:22):
in eighteen fifty one, the thirty seventh running of the
America's Cup, Team New Zealand against Inios Britannia. And as
you heard Mark Orum say during that chat, Luna rossa
Coe helmsman Jimmy Spittle, a larger than life personality in
sailing circles, has announced his retirement from sailing.

Speaker 3 (01:43:39):
This is definitely my last one as an athlete. I
mean I skip it my first team at nineteen in
nineteen ninety nine, and I've driven a boat in every
Cup up until now. And if you told me this
is where the sport would be back then when I started,
I mean I probably would have driven into the mental
hospital myself.

Speaker 2 (01:43:57):
So a slight correction his retirement from America's Cup sailing.
We may well see Jimmy Spittle do other sailing, but
that's it for now anyway, And again who knows, But
of course we'll always remember him for steering Oracle Team
USA to that stunning victory over Team New Zealand back
in twenty thirteen, coming from eight one down to win

(01:44:20):
it nine to eight, one of the great comebacks of
all time in any sport, twenty six to three. When
we come back, Wayne Goldsmith are coaching Guru talking about
end of season reviews, how, why, when, and other questions too.
When we come back on News talk S.

Speaker 1 (01:44:36):
EDB the big issues on and after Fields Call eight
hundred eighty ten eighty Weekends Forward with Jason.

Speaker 2 (01:44:44):
Fine and GJ.

Speaker 1 (01:44:45):
Gunner Homes New Zealand's first trusted home builder News Talk
to a Baby.

Speaker 2 (01:44:49):
Coming up twenty two away from three. Every month or
so we get the benefit of the wisdom and expertise
of coaching Guru Wayne Goldsmith on a range of different
coaching and widest sporting issues. Wayne Welcoman, I want to
talk today about reviews, end of season reviews, end of
Olympic campaign reviews, that sort of thing I've done dozens
and dozens of these. So where do you start and

(01:45:10):
what are the things that you look at?

Speaker 11 (01:45:13):
Well, that's a really good question, Piney, because I'm in
the middle of two or three now. I'm in the
middle of two from in Australian football codes and different codes,
and a couple in Olympic sports. And I know when
they ring me and they say how would you go
about doing a review? I always think of the Liam
Neesan line from Taking where he says I've developed a

(01:45:35):
very special set of skills, skills that make me a
nightmare for people like you. Because what I say to
people is they say, what are.

Speaker 10 (01:45:43):
You going to look at?

Speaker 11 (01:45:44):
And I say everything and nothing. And I'm becoming very zen,
I think as I get older, because I think if
you go in your start a review with a preconceived
notion of saying I think from a distant it looks
like this, you'll end up only looking at one thing,
Whereas quite often what's required as you come in and

(01:46:04):
you've got to look at everything, and so often say
to I'll look at things like the culture and coaches
and the players and your roster and your budget and facilities,
and importantly the interaction between all those things. So, like
I said, we look at everything and we look at nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:46:25):
So then when you've established a bit of understanding about
the different parts of the organization, the different parts of
the campaign, players, coaches, culture, leadership, all those things you've
mentioned in more, then what Wayne.

Speaker 11 (01:46:41):
Well, it's a matter of coming in and spending time
talking to people about what their views are. Look I
actually say two clubs the best time to do a
review is about six weeks from the end of the
year because people are doing what they do the danger
in doing and I find it all the time pioneers.

(01:47:02):
I come in and I do an end of season review,
and people's reflection and the stories they tell about what
they think happened is very very different maybe what actually happened.
So you've got to look at the data if there's
data available, You've got to talk to people from different perspectives,
and so you might obviously you'll interview coaches, sports on once, sports, medicine, staff,

(01:47:27):
medical staff, management, players of course people around it and
develop an overall perspective of what may or may not
be happening. Because people's ability to tell a narrative of
their own experience and their own contribution to year changes
a lot at the end of the year, but you

(01:47:49):
start to put everything together, and some of it is screaming.
So for example, you might go into a rugby review
and you might be looking at the fence. Well, you
can pull out so much data on tackles made, tackles missed.
You can look at so much on it and that'll
give you a bit of an insight into maybe the

(01:48:10):
way that the defensive coach is working, or maybe their
technical elements, or the skill level of the players. So
sometimes it's really easy because you've got data. Other times,
things like leadership, communication, relationships, culture, they're hard to see,
hard to measure, particularly at the end of the season.

(01:48:32):
So a bit of a jigsaw puzzle. It is like
putting a puzzle together to try and find the real truth.
And you know that great phrase I use off and
is it's no good coming up with a great solution
to the wrong problem. So that quite often I'll go
in and I'll say what do you think. I say, oh,
I think it's a culture thing, and they go, thanks, Wayne,
We're going to build a new gym and it's got

(01:48:54):
nothing to do with the culture. But because you can
see a gym, you can buy a gym, you can
build an extension to a part of the ground because
you actually see those things. Quite often people do that
rather than address what the real problem might be.

Speaker 2 (01:49:12):
You send me a neat little way, actually quite a
few neat little sort of things as part of your
notes for this particular segment. You're talking here about the
three S model, when you're looking at what's working and
what's not, things you need to sustain, stop and start.
Can you just unpack that a bit for us.

Speaker 15 (01:49:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:49:31):
I think in the end, all of the best reviews
I do come down to a very simple concept, which
is what is it that we're doing that we should sustain,
keep doing What is it we're doing that's working, Because
just because the team might have come tent, it doesn't
mean everything's wrong. I think while people make a mistake
in reviews by any they go, well, we came tent,

(01:49:52):
therefore everybody and everything's wrong, and let's throw it all
out and start again. It's never really the case. There's
always there's always some things that are working, and maybe
they're just not working in the right way, or maybe
they'd over the right resourcing, or they're not being used
at the right time. Or there's some political roadblocks there.

(01:50:12):
So I say to people, there's going to be something
that's working. There'll be some things that you go, you
know what, Our defense is really good, our communication is great,
the connection between the players and the coaches is great.
All right, let's keep that. That's solid gold. And then
there'll be some really obvious things that you should stop doing.
So it'll really screwing because people are very good at

(01:50:34):
identifying problems much better than identifying things that are working
and going well. So overly say, guys, these are the
things we know that are impeding our progress and not
helping us get better. We stop that, and then of
course everybody learns. So the third thing is so keep doing,
stop doing, start doing, or sustain stop and start. And

(01:50:54):
then there's some things that you'll learn watching the better teams,
by studying, by research, by reflecting, by looking at what
you're doing, you'll go, you know what we learned this year,
we shouldn't do that to change this, we should add that.
So when I get around to reporting it back to
coaches and boards and executives, hey, guys, keep it simple.

(01:51:16):
This is what you're doing that's working. This is stuff
that's not working, and here's some suggestions for how to
make it better.

Speaker 2 (01:51:22):
Do you need to challenge yourself? Will be ready to
challenge yourself as an organization, because I'm sure you could
do a very good review for somebody and present it
to them all your findings, all the data that backs
it all up. But an organization still has to be
willing to be open to change, don't they.

Speaker 9 (01:51:42):
Yeah, they've got to be.

Speaker 11 (01:51:43):
There's a great line I love is when the student
is ready, the teachers shall be found. I think when
they're ready to learn that it's quite easily. It's believe
it or not. This job's a lot simpler than people think,
because if you've been around a little bit and you're
open minded and you spend time really listening to people,
the problems are only right in front of you. But

(01:52:06):
there's blockages either you don't like them, or you've got
a political issue, a personality conflict. Quite often, if you're
immersed in the environment, you don't see the obvious. And
as a great friend of mine, Jackie, may she rest
in peace. Jackie used to say to me, Goali, you
are the master of the bloody obvious. And I said,
but Jack, that's what it is most of the time,

(01:52:29):
what's not working or the problems that are holding people
back from realizing their potential are really obvious. They're right
in front of them, but they're blinded because of proximity.
They're too close to them to actually see what's screaming
out to someone independent. And that's good because that pays
my mortgage job. I like coming in just pointing things

(01:52:49):
out the people that they already know. Piney often say
to people, I'm not particularly clever, and I'm really not.
I'm not particularly clever, I'm not particularly brilliant. All I'm
doing is pointing out what's right in front of you
that you can't see. It's very rarely you'll come in
and go, I've got to evolutionary breakthrough idea that you've
never thought of. Most of the time you're pointing out

(01:53:11):
things that they already know, but they just can't see
them because they're too close to them.

Speaker 2 (01:53:16):
Have you ever been in a situation where you've been
commissioned to conduct a review and then somebody who's in
charge at the organization has said to you, hey, you'll
be really good if you could actually find this. You
know almost almost I guess try to predetermine what you're
going to find in your review.

Speaker 11 (01:53:34):
Mate. It happens more than I'd like to think about that.
There was a funny story years ago, I was asked.
I got called by a CEO of one of the
Melbourne based AFL clubs and I came in. We went
through the terms of reference of the review, talked about
look and you know, he was passionate, and he talked

(01:53:55):
about we want to get better, we want to be competitive,
we want to grow our fans, you know, we want
to be seen as having an exciting type of football.
You know, he's really excited. Anyway, I go back to
my hotel that night and my phone rings. I picked
it up. Wayne Goldsmith are going and it's the chair
of the board of the football club. And he said, Wayne, look,

(01:54:16):
i've heard you're in town. I know you're here to
do the review. I wonder if you got time to
catch up and turns up, picks me up in a
nice car, takes me out to the Melbourne water of
the Bayfront and we're sitting there having a nice meal,
just talking footy and performance and sport and kids and
everything else. And he said, he said, Wayne, I want
to tell you something. He said, I want you to

(01:54:38):
find this, and he gave me a little piece of paper. God,
I wish I kept that piece of paper pinting. And
he gave me a little piece of paper and on
it it had sax CEO remove headcakes. And he looked
me square in the eyes of very well known media
identity as well, and he looked me square in the
eyes and said, if you want to get paid, that's

(01:55:01):
what you're going to find in your review.

Speaker 6 (01:55:02):
Wow.

Speaker 11 (01:55:03):
Because I was taken aback, I was a bit waffled
a bit. I think, said, oh, look I want to do.
He said, Wayne, do whatever you like, look at everything,
come up with whatever process you want. But if you
don't find those things, you won't get paid. And it
was a challenge, mate, because which you know, you try
to live a life of ethics and business principles and

(01:55:27):
someone looked at you from high profile and says, if
you don't find this, you're not going to get paid.
So I went away and I thought about it overnight
and talked a great friend of mine also in the business,
and what we ended up doing is I did the
review and I had an agreement that I would give
it to the chairman to look at first, which I did,
and as it turns out, he was pretty much on

(01:55:48):
the money. But yeah, you get that from time to time.
And because I think you know that great phrase to
someone with a hammer, every problem is a nail. If
you get someone to do a review who's an attacking
rugby coach, they're going to come and say, you know what,
you guys don't attack as much as you should. Where
you get someone who's a physiotherapist still come in and go,

(01:56:12):
you know what, you're not doing enough in the injury
management space, whereas the reality is it's never one thing.
It's always a blend, an integration. It's it's several things
that are happening concurrently. It's very rarely you walk in
you go, you know what, guys, change that one thing
and I guarantee everything will be successful. And if anyone

(01:56:34):
tells you that, you know that they're alling.

Speaker 2 (01:56:37):
Just to bring it back to the concept of reviewing
to finish, shouldn't reviewing be happening, you know, sort of
an ongoing fashion way and you shouldn't have to wait
till a point in time, be it at the end
of the season or as you suggested six weeks from
the inter review. Shouldn't you always be looking at your
performance and reviewing what you're doing?

Speaker 11 (01:56:56):
Yeah, that's and that's the really the bottom point pointing
I should actually be out of business. You know, don't
tell my wife has said that, but I should actually
be out of business. I should have no work. Because
when you go into a really high performing group, at
the end of every training session, the coaches are sitting
around having a coffee saying, hey, guys, what worked, what

(01:57:17):
didn't work, and what should we change before the next session.
They're living a continual review process what we call they
live a continuous improvement culture. So after every session, after
everything they do, they're continually saying, can we do better?
And they've got a culture based on honesty where they

(01:57:37):
can look at each other and say, you know what, Pony,
I think you could have done that better, and then you,
with trust and with connection with me, would go, really, Wayne,
So instead of going when you'd have no idea what
you're doing, you would say, if in a culture that's working,
a real performance culture, you would say, really, Wayne, what
do you think I could do better? And you've got

(01:57:59):
this open sharing, transparent way of growing ideas and you're
in this continuous improvement culture. When you've got that, you're unstoppable.
And that's what you would see walking in a penirate.
That's what you would see walking into I dare say
the great All Blacks, that's what you'd see when you
walk into an environment that's really clicking. They're living an

(01:58:22):
environment of continuous improvement. And there's no idea, no need
for knuckleheads like me.

Speaker 2 (01:58:28):
Well there always will be. On this radio show, Wayne,
your wisdom, your experience, your expertise is greatly appreciated by
me and by our listeners as well. Always good to
catch up. Let's do it again next month. Can't wait, mate,
Stay well, you stay well to Wayne Wayne Goldsmith. They're
coaching guru and regular contributor on Weekend Sport. Wg coaching
dot com is his website. Heaps of great articles and

(01:58:50):
pieces of advice on there, and more about Wayne, but
you can hear them here on Weekend Sport once a
month or so, talking about a range of different issues.
Eight Away from three News Talks It me.

Speaker 1 (02:00:53):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live
to news Talks it be weekends from midday or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio,

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