October 25, 2024 • 17 mins
Tonight kicks off the All Blacks’ Northern Tour, the team taking on Japan in Yokohama.
Former All Black Murray Mexted joined Piney to discuss the changes and growth the team has undergone so far this year, and where they still need to improve to have a successful tour.
Mexted told him that the biggest weakness the South Africa tests exposed was the team’s lack of size in comparison to the ‘Boks.
“We just weren't, literally, weren't big enough for the aerial possession battle, which we lost.”
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from News Talk zedb.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Through that right bord of his and away there yo.
The All Blacks get three to finish. Japan go down
swinging and this one thirty eight thirty one. What a
test match we have seen.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
It was two years ago the last time the All
Blacks played Japan. It's their tenth Test match of this
year ten to seven tonight, the first of five tests
and five weeks to end the year. Much tougher assignments
ahead England at Twickenham, Ireland and Dublin, France and Paris
across three consecutive weekends before Italy in Rome. To wrap
Scott Robertson's first year in charge, Let's bring in thirty
(00:46):
four tests, seventy two game All Blacks number eight and
astute rugby analyst Murray Mextead Murray. Great to get the
chance to chat to you in general terms. First of all,
what have you made of the All Blacks performances so
far in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Well, firstly, good afternoon, A very good yeah, Well, I reckon,
that's raise is taking it one step at a time
and probably having a good hard look at lots of
combinations because I think that he was thrown into a
hard well, they're all hard, aren't they when you think
about it. The All Black program, it was a very
(01:22):
difficult program going to South Africa, playing two games Cape
Town and in well, Joe Burg and Cape Town, So
you know, he's had a tough go and I think
lots of things were proven over there. I think that
exposed a lot of weaknesses and therefore I'm very very
pleased with the team that he selected to play against
(01:44):
Japan because there's probably half a dozen guys in that
starting lineup that he's having a good look at. To
play in that first Test against England, Island and France
three in a row, that's a tall order. You know,
in any year, that's a hard combination to play three
(02:04):
weeks in a row. So it's going to be very
interesting this game in Tokyo. I think the team's very
clever selection, and I think we're going to get a
good opportunity to have a look at five or six
players we might figure in the first Test in England.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I want to talk about a couple of those potential
players in a second Murray, But which weaknesses do you
think we're exposed in South Africa.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Well, the biggest one, most clear to everybody really is
the lack of size in comparison to the Springbok forwards.
So we were well undersized. And you know, I think
if you're going to beat South Africa and South Africa,
you've got to target sixty percent possession. Now we didn't
achieve that in either of those games, and we've got
under fifty in the second game, I believe. So you're
(02:50):
not going to beat South Africa and South Africa unless
you get more from them and as far as ball goes,
and we couldn't do that. We just weren't literally weren't
big enough for the aerial possession battle, which we lost.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
So let's look at the selection then of this team.
Actually before we do, did you think Raiser might be
more adventurous with his selections up to this point because
he's he's kind of stuck with a very solid cores
right across the first nine test of the year. Do
you think he might be more adventurous?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
No, I don't I think that. I think he's a
very good coach and he's he's a proven coach, which
a lot of people are forgetting that. He came back
to New Zealand after playing France for a long time
coaching over there, he came back to news Own and
he did the arts big time, you know, with Canterbury b.
(03:42):
I think he started with and then Canterbury and then
is fantastic you know, tenure with the Crusaders. So I
think that he's a proven coach. What he's not proven
at is perhaps selection at international level. And I also
think he's a quick learner. And if you're surrounded by
(04:05):
really deep thinkers, then you have to try out a
lot of players. The other characteristic I think of Raises
is loyalty. Once he picks someone, he gives them plenty
of opportunity. You know, he really does. He doesn't just
look at him for a couple of games and say no,
you're not up to it. I'll try someone else. He
just gives them another game and another game, hoping he's
going to come through. And that's why he developed such
(04:27):
incredible loyalty. And you'll see the difference in the Crusader
And you know, you've got to have Lorty coach. You've
got to have Lordy with his players, he selects if
you lose the players on the field, you're gone, you know,
because rugby is a true team sport and everyone's got
to want to be pushing in the same direction, literally,
So I think that he's he's proven in that area
(04:49):
and his loyalty is unmatched. But I think this is
a new ballgame now we're starting again, and that's why
I think this team that play Japan is a very
very interesting selection.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Do you like the look of Wallace a T team?
Speaker 4 (05:06):
I don't. I'm too early for me to comment on
him to be frank number one. He's been played at
blindside blanker most of the time and he's a number eight,
so you know you've got to be able to look
at him in both positions. I think his selection will
depend on who the other two loose forwards are. And
(05:30):
I say that objectively because I think that Ardie Severe,
you'd have to say, is equally as competent at seven
or eight, and how that evolves over the next few
weeks will be very interesting to see because you know,
we've got a very successful open side flanker. Also on
that scene, he's played one hundred games or so. Is
(05:51):
need for the All Blacks Sam Caine so he's also there,
probably on his last journey with the All Blacks, and
I think, in fact he's one of the guys. You know,
I sort of I put a circle around the names
of the players playing against Japan, and one of the
(06:13):
names I circle with his name. So I think it
depends and this is the way it should be too.
You know, you get selected to play big test matches
on performance, don't you, So you know he needs to
perform in England. There's no doubt about in Japan to
be picked against England. So there's a lot of options
at seven and eight. Where I think the complication comes
(06:36):
with Satiti is we need a really proven aerial possession
man in the back three, and if you have Cain
and Severe, you've got to have a six foot six
guy somewhere in that back three. Now this is not new,
This dates back to you know, even back as far
(06:57):
as my playing days are concerned. You know, when you're
play in the Northern Hemist, you're going to have four
guys who are really good at aerial position. Those four
guys are all going to be, you know, over two
meters tall. And if you go in there with guys
that are you know, I'm mixing up inches and seven
meters aren't died. But if you go in there with
(07:18):
guys that are six foot one and six foot two,
you're just not going to cut the mustard. You're never
going to get sixty percent possision. And we need to
get sixty percent position in each of these test matches
in the UK if we're going to win those games.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
So the only guy I can think of, yeah, sorry,
mix the only guy I can think of? Then that
fits the bill of a of a of a six
foot six loose forward in this team. If you've got
Kane save Titis, Summer Penny female and he hasn't really
shown enough, I don't know what you think to justify
a place in the best loose forward trio.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Yeah, and you're absolutely correct, well done, you know. I
think that that's what's pretty clear though, isn't it? After
what I just said? But Pinal is the only guy
that's tall enough to compete. You know, he was given
a hard baptism, was me. I mean, Johanna's been you'd
have to if you're playing the spring blocks in Johannesburg,
that would be the hardest game of rugby to play ever.
(08:13):
You know, if you look at all the different venues
around the world, and I've been spoiled actually and lucky
enough to have played in most of those, the game
that is the hardest to win is the one when
you'd run on the field in Johannesburg, and for countless
reasons which I won't go into, but that that is
the biggest challenge. So fe now got that challenge and
(08:34):
he didn't really come through, did he is what you're saying,
and you haven't heard from him since. But I think
what Raysor found out in South Africa is that he
didn't have any six foot six loose forward who could
win bore, you know, and he didn't have two locks
who could win bore that level either, because buyers well
under well under six foot six. And I think he's
playing really well though, so you know, he's another guy
(08:58):
that I would think would be in the future, will
be looked at as a blindside blanker and additional because
he's good in the air with the ball, but he's
just not quite big enough to be a lock against
the very best in the world when you think they're
all six foot eight. You know, we've got to look
at the realities and Barrett would be a showan obviously
(09:19):
is one of the locks. But do we have another locker?
Six foot eight? And I'm looking hard at this guy,
Josh Lord, because he's the only guy there that's named
I think he's six eight. I think we've probably got
another one, haven't we. Who is it now? Yes, one
of our other locks? Of course. Yeah, we've got two
(09:43):
guys going to on this tour that are six ft
six foot seven or six foot eight. But I think
Lord would be an interesting guy to see when he
comes on the field in this game against Japan, will
be very interesting when he appears. Will he come on
straight out the halftime on picking? He will? And he's
one that they might have to look at in Europe,
(10:05):
even though he's a bit of a virgin. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I guess Sam Dow's the other one, isn't he who's
starting alongside Patrick to hip a lot too. What did
you make of the of the decision to seen ten
players on ahead mix?
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Well, I think this is all part of the plan,
isn't it clearly part of the plan. And when I
look at the team at that plane, you know it's
a really interesting team. We've got a fantastic front row.
Our stocks in the front row are really good, and
I think Jason Ryan's done a magnificent job, and that's
(10:41):
one of the great things. I think that he was picked,
you know, in the last regime and started to develop
a front row because we were one step behind internationally,
and I now think we're one step ahead. So he's
got about six or seven or eight guys that are
good enough to plan test serious. I'm really pleased with
what's going on there. We've got a real challenge in
(11:03):
the in the second row, haven't we, Because if if
you've listened to what I've just said, we haven't got
too many six foot eight locks around and the loose forwards.
We haven't got a big loose forward that's been proven
yet either. And we're not sure about our open side
flanker heir to be. I mean, I was picking Blackadder
actually as the next open side flanker after Kane has
(11:25):
had his lot, but he's been injured a fair bit
and we haven't seen much of that open soide. We've
seen more of them a blindside because of the lack
of height. But fortunately we've got Ardie Sabia and he
can double up. He can play seven or eight equally
as well?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Does it actually matter?
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Does it matter?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Does it matter in the modern day game, Murray, does
it matter which number is on the back of a
player in the loose forward trio. I know it goes
against what you said about having a tall guy, but
for example, Ardie Savey is going to play the same
way if he's got seven on his back or eight
on his back, isn't he.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
It's a very contentious question you're asking because you know,
you've got to look at the core of what is
a core role of the six to seven and the eight.
And if you ask most people, they've never thought about it.
They may know, but they've never thought about Now, the
core role of an open side flanker is to retain
and regain possession. That is the core role. So in
(12:21):
other words, you're on the open side of the scrum.
Doesn't matter who wins the ball in the center of
the field. Also, a kickoff doesn't matter who wins the ball.
You have an opportunity to retain or regain. So you've
got to be the best we've got in New Zealand
in that role. And then who's the second closest, who
has the second amount of opportunity is a number eight.
(12:42):
So you're quite right. Seven and eight both have a
mission and their core role is to retain and regain.
You know, you've got to add a couple of other
attributes too to the number eight, and ideally one of
them would be you know, that'd be six or five
or so as well, like Karen Reid was an ideal
(13:03):
number eight actually because he supported the blindside flanker, line
out aerial position in general, kicks and dropouts, et cetera. Yeah,
so cutting cutting, cut into the chase, you've got to
have two really in my view, if you go to England,
you're going to play England, Ireland and France, you've actually
(13:25):
got to have to loose forwards who are really good
in the air, and one of them would have to
be good enough to hunt and gather. So you know,
hunting and gathering is really important for the seven. In
the eighth, the number six is a totally different position.
It's the blindside flanker. It has least opportunity to get
in the action from set play. He's often the guy
(13:47):
either jumping or lifting in the line out less opportunities.
So when he does get an opportunity, he's got to
make an impact. So you need a really very hard, abrasive, aggressive,
blind side flanker that you see when he gets the chance.
You know, he hasn't got as much opportunity as the
seven and the eighth. So I hope that is simplified
(14:09):
for it.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
No, it has, it has. I look at them.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
I look at the guys who have worn six this
year for the All Blacks, some of Penny female for
the first two tests against England, then Jacobson against Fiji,
blackadded for three test matches, the two against Argentina and
then South Africa, then Sa Titi in the time since
and now we're back to female. So of all of them,
mex who's who fits the bill best? Is it Titi?
(14:34):
Is he because he's physically abrasive as you've outlined?
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Is he the man?
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Okay, I mean if you had if you had a
Karen Reid playing at number eight, you could say, okay, yeah,
you could play the Titi at six. But you haven't
got a Karen Reid number eight. You've got this numberate
in the world. Probably who's you know, not necessarily a
lineup for it. Well, he's not a liner forward. You
compete against South Africa and England and France and Ireland.
(15:02):
So you've got to have a big blind side blanket.
And so the only one on that team at the
moment is female, which is why I would be looking
at Vai as an option at blindside blanket. Does that
answer your question? It does? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
But didn't we try this with Scott Barrett? We moved
them out of the second row to blindside. Didn't really work.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Well, I don't know did it or did it not
really work? My mind is it did work? You see?
I reckon that Barrett also could play six. But we
haven't got two other six foot eight bloody locks, have we.
So you've got to look at the realities. We're short
of poor ball winning forwards second row and back row
third row. So you know that's my view. You can,
(15:48):
you know, you can argue and dispute that, but what
you can't dispute is that you've got to get your
share of possession, and to beat the big teams away
from home, you've got to get more than your share
of possession. I don't think anybody, doesn't matter how smart
they are, can dispute that.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I'm not disputing it at all. I'm not disputing that, no,
absolutely for you.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Mate, I was probably because you asked me the question.
I mean to send that you weren't decided either. But
it's something that's been neglected, you know, And it's something
that's been forgotten about. But it's very very obvious. You know,
if you can have two guys and the loose forwards
that can win the ball in the air. Gee, you've
(16:29):
got a great head start, haven't you. But they've got
to be good too. They're going to be good at
their role, you know. So Satiti that's in the same category,
really is? It's severe, you know, they're in that same
and came to a less extent because I think cane
is an out and out open side and nothing else.
So you know, severe and sa TDI I think, and
(16:52):
the same category, you know, same size, not big enough
to compete in the air for aerial possession against guys
who are six foot six or six foot eight, you know.
So that's a that's a real dinama at the moment.
I think that's why females playing against Japan Murray.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
It's always interesting, very interesting instructive chatting to you. Thanks
for taking taking our call and being so generous with
your time, might really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
No problem, See you, Adam, see Aladam Murray.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Murray mixed it with as always interesting views on the
state of rugby.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talks d B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine
from News Talk zedb.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Through that right bord of his and away there yo.
The All Blacks get three to finish. Japan go down
swinging and this one thirty eight thirty one. What a
test match we have seen.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
It was two years ago the last time the All
Blacks played Japan. It's their tenth Test match of this
year ten to seven tonight, the first of five tests
and five weeks to end the year. Much tougher assignments
ahead England at Twickenham, Ireland and Dublin, France and Paris
across three consecutive weekends before Italy in Rome. To wrap
Scott Robertson's first year in charge, Let's bring in thirty
(00:46):
four tests, seventy two game All Blacks number eight and
astute rugby analyst Murray Mextead Murray. Great to get the
chance to chat to you in general terms. First of all,
what have you made of the All Blacks performances so
far in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Well, firstly, good afternoon, A very good yeah, Well, I reckon,
that's raise is taking it one step at a time
and probably having a good hard look at lots of
combinations because I think that he was thrown into a
hard well, they're all hard, aren't they when you think
about it. The All Black program, it was a very
(01:22):
difficult program going to South Africa, playing two games Cape
Town and in well, Joe Burg and Cape Town, So
you know, he's had a tough go and I think
lots of things were proven over there. I think that
exposed a lot of weaknesses and therefore I'm very very
pleased with the team that he selected to play against
(01:44):
Japan because there's probably half a dozen guys in that
starting lineup that he's having a good look at. To
play in that first Test against England, Island and France
three in a row, that's a tall order. You know,
in any year, that's a hard combination to play three
(02:04):
weeks in a row. So it's going to be very
interesting this game in Tokyo. I think the team's very
clever selection, and I think we're going to get a
good opportunity to have a look at five or six
players we might figure in the first Test in England.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I want to talk about a couple of those potential
players in a second Murray, But which weaknesses do you
think we're exposed in South Africa.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Well, the biggest one, most clear to everybody really is
the lack of size in comparison to the Springbok forwards.
So we were well undersized. And you know, I think
if you're going to beat South Africa and South Africa,
you've got to target sixty percent possession. Now we didn't
achieve that in either of those games, and we've got
under fifty in the second game, I believe. So you're
(02:50):
not going to beat South Africa and South Africa unless
you get more from them and as far as ball goes,
and we couldn't do that. We just weren't literally weren't
big enough for the aerial possession battle, which we lost.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
So let's look at the selection then of this team.
Actually before we do, did you think Raiser might be
more adventurous with his selections up to this point because
he's he's kind of stuck with a very solid cores
right across the first nine test of the year. Do
you think he might be more adventurous?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
No, I don't I think that. I think he's a
very good coach and he's he's a proven coach, which
a lot of people are forgetting that. He came back
to New Zealand after playing France for a long time
coaching over there, he came back to news Own and
he did the arts big time, you know, with Canterbury b.
(03:42):
I think he started with and then Canterbury and then
is fantastic you know, tenure with the Crusaders. So I
think that he's a proven coach. What he's not proven
at is perhaps selection at international level. And I also
think he's a quick learner. And if you're surrounded by
(04:05):
really deep thinkers, then you have to try out a
lot of players. The other characteristic I think of Raises
is loyalty. Once he picks someone, he gives them plenty
of opportunity. You know, he really does. He doesn't just
look at him for a couple of games and say no,
you're not up to it. I'll try someone else. He
just gives them another game and another game, hoping he's
going to come through. And that's why he developed such
(04:27):
incredible loyalty. And you'll see the difference in the Crusader
And you know, you've got to have Lorty coach. You've
got to have Lordy with his players, he selects if
you lose the players on the field, you're gone, you know,
because rugby is a true team sport and everyone's got
to want to be pushing in the same direction, literally,
So I think that he's he's proven in that area
(04:49):
and his loyalty is unmatched. But I think this is
a new ballgame now we're starting again, and that's why
I think this team that play Japan is a very
very interesting selection.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Do you like the look of Wallace a T team?
Speaker 4 (05:06):
I don't. I'm too early for me to comment on
him to be frank number one. He's been played at
blindside blanker most of the time and he's a number eight,
so you know you've got to be able to look
at him in both positions. I think his selection will
depend on who the other two loose forwards are. And
(05:30):
I say that objectively because I think that Ardie Severe,
you'd have to say, is equally as competent at seven
or eight, and how that evolves over the next few
weeks will be very interesting to see because you know,
we've got a very successful open side flanker. Also on
that scene, he's played one hundred games or so. Is
(05:51):
need for the All Blacks Sam Caine so he's also there,
probably on his last journey with the All Blacks, and
I think, in fact he's one of the guys. You know,
I sort of I put a circle around the names
of the players playing against Japan, and one of the
(06:13):
names I circle with his name. So I think it
depends and this is the way it should be too.
You know, you get selected to play big test matches
on performance, don't you, So you know he needs to
perform in England. There's no doubt about in Japan to
be picked against England. So there's a lot of options
at seven and eight. Where I think the complication comes
(06:36):
with Satiti is we need a really proven aerial possession
man in the back three, and if you have Cain
and Severe, you've got to have a six foot six
guy somewhere in that back three. Now this is not new,
This dates back to you know, even back as far
(06:57):
as my playing days are concerned. You know, when you're
play in the Northern Hemist, you're going to have four
guys who are really good at aerial position. Those four
guys are all going to be, you know, over two
meters tall. And if you go in there with guys
that are you know, I'm mixing up inches and seven
meters aren't died. But if you go in there with
(07:18):
guys that are six foot one and six foot two,
you're just not going to cut the mustard. You're never
going to get sixty percent possision. And we need to
get sixty percent position in each of these test matches
in the UK if we're going to win those games.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
So the only guy I can think of, yeah, sorry,
mix the only guy I can think of? Then that
fits the bill of a of a of a six
foot six loose forward in this team. If you've got
Kane save Titis, Summer Penny female and he hasn't really
shown enough, I don't know what you think to justify
a place in the best loose forward trio.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Yeah, and you're absolutely correct, well done, you know. I
think that that's what's pretty clear though, isn't it? After
what I just said? But Pinal is the only guy
that's tall enough to compete. You know, he was given
a hard baptism, was me. I mean, Johanna's been you'd
have to if you're playing the spring blocks in Johannesburg,
that would be the hardest game of rugby to play ever.
(08:13):
You know, if you look at all the different venues
around the world, and I've been spoiled actually and lucky
enough to have played in most of those, the game
that is the hardest to win is the one when
you'd run on the field in Johannesburg, and for countless
reasons which I won't go into, but that that is
the biggest challenge. So fe now got that challenge and
(08:34):
he didn't really come through, did he is what you're saying,
and you haven't heard from him since. But I think
what Raysor found out in South Africa is that he
didn't have any six foot six loose forward who could
win bore, you know, and he didn't have two locks
who could win bore that level either, because buyers well
under well under six foot six. And I think he's
playing really well though, so you know, he's another guy
(08:58):
that I would think would be in the future, will
be looked at as a blindside blanker and additional because
he's good in the air with the ball, but he's
just not quite big enough to be a lock against
the very best in the world when you think they're
all six foot eight. You know, we've got to look
at the realities and Barrett would be a showan obviously
(09:19):
is one of the locks. But do we have another locker?
Six foot eight? And I'm looking hard at this guy,
Josh Lord, because he's the only guy there that's named
I think he's six eight. I think we've probably got
another one, haven't we. Who is it now? Yes, one
of our other locks? Of course. Yeah, we've got two
(09:43):
guys going to on this tour that are six ft
six foot seven or six foot eight. But I think
Lord would be an interesting guy to see when he
comes on the field in this game against Japan, will
be very interesting when he appears. Will he come on
straight out the halftime on picking? He will? And he's
one that they might have to look at in Europe,
(10:05):
even though he's a bit of a virgin. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I guess Sam Dow's the other one, isn't he who's
starting alongside Patrick to hip a lot too. What did
you make of the of the decision to seen ten
players on ahead mix?
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Well, I think this is all part of the plan,
isn't it clearly part of the plan. And when I
look at the team at that plane, you know it's
a really interesting team. We've got a fantastic front row.
Our stocks in the front row are really good, and
I think Jason Ryan's done a magnificent job, and that's
(10:41):
one of the great things. I think that he was picked,
you know, in the last regime and started to develop
a front row because we were one step behind internationally,
and I now think we're one step ahead. So he's
got about six or seven or eight guys that are
good enough to plan test serious. I'm really pleased with
what's going on there. We've got a real challenge in
(11:03):
the in the second row, haven't we, Because if if
you've listened to what I've just said, we haven't got
too many six foot eight locks around and the loose forwards.
We haven't got a big loose forward that's been proven
yet either. And we're not sure about our open side
flanker heir to be. I mean, I was picking Blackadder
actually as the next open side flanker after Kane has
(11:25):
had his lot, but he's been injured a fair bit
and we haven't seen much of that open soide. We've
seen more of them a blindside because of the lack
of height. But fortunately we've got Ardie Sabia and he
can double up. He can play seven or eight equally
as well?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Does it actually matter?
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Does it matter?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Does it matter in the modern day game, Murray, does
it matter which number is on the back of a
player in the loose forward trio. I know it goes
against what you said about having a tall guy, but
for example, Ardie Savey is going to play the same
way if he's got seven on his back or eight
on his back, isn't he.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
It's a very contentious question you're asking because you know,
you've got to look at the core of what is
a core role of the six to seven and the eight.
And if you ask most people, they've never thought about it.
They may know, but they've never thought about Now, the
core role of an open side flanker is to retain
and regain possession. That is the core role. So in
(12:21):
other words, you're on the open side of the scrum.
Doesn't matter who wins the ball in the center of
the field. Also, a kickoff doesn't matter who wins the ball.
You have an opportunity to retain or regain. So you've
got to be the best we've got in New Zealand
in that role. And then who's the second closest, who
has the second amount of opportunity is a number eight.
(12:42):
So you're quite right. Seven and eight both have a
mission and their core role is to retain and regain.
You know, you've got to add a couple of other
attributes too to the number eight, and ideally one of
them would be you know, that'd be six or five
or so as well, like Karen Reid was an ideal
(13:03):
number eight actually because he supported the blindside flanker, line
out aerial position in general, kicks and dropouts, et cetera. Yeah,
so cutting cutting, cut into the chase, you've got to
have two really in my view, if you go to England,
you're going to play England, Ireland and France, you've actually
(13:25):
got to have to loose forwards who are really good
in the air, and one of them would have to
be good enough to hunt and gather. So you know,
hunting and gathering is really important for the seven. In
the eighth, the number six is a totally different position.
It's the blindside flanker. It has least opportunity to get
in the action from set play. He's often the guy
(13:47):
either jumping or lifting in the line out less opportunities.
So when he does get an opportunity, he's got to
make an impact. So you need a really very hard, abrasive, aggressive,
blind side flanker that you see when he gets the chance.
You know, he hasn't got as much opportunity as the
seven and the eighth. So I hope that is simplified
(14:09):
for it.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
No, it has, it has. I look at them.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
I look at the guys who have worn six this
year for the All Blacks, some of Penny female for
the first two tests against England, then Jacobson against Fiji,
blackadded for three test matches, the two against Argentina and
then South Africa, then Sa Titi in the time since
and now we're back to female. So of all of them,
mex who's who fits the bill best? Is it Titi?
(14:34):
Is he because he's physically abrasive as you've outlined?
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Is he the man?
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Okay, I mean if you had if you had a
Karen Reid playing at number eight, you could say, okay, yeah,
you could play the Titi at six. But you haven't
got a Karen Reid number eight. You've got this numberate
in the world. Probably who's you know, not necessarily a
lineup for it. Well, he's not a liner forward. You
compete against South Africa and England and France and Ireland.
(15:02):
So you've got to have a big blind side blanket.
And so the only one on that team at the
moment is female, which is why I would be looking
at Vai as an option at blindside blanket. Does that
answer your question? It does? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
But didn't we try this with Scott Barrett? We moved
them out of the second row to blindside. Didn't really work.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Well, I don't know did it or did it not
really work? My mind is it did work? You see?
I reckon that Barrett also could play six. But we
haven't got two other six foot eight bloody locks, have we.
So you've got to look at the realities. We're short
of poor ball winning forwards second row and back row
third row. So you know that's my view. You can,
(15:48):
you know, you can argue and dispute that, but what
you can't dispute is that you've got to get your
share of possession, and to beat the big teams away
from home, you've got to get more than your share
of possession. I don't think anybody, doesn't matter how smart
they are, can dispute that.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I'm not disputing it at all. I'm not disputing that, no,
absolutely for you.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Mate, I was probably because you asked me the question.
I mean to send that you weren't decided either. But
it's something that's been neglected, you know, And it's something
that's been forgotten about. But it's very very obvious. You know,
if you can have two guys and the loose forwards
that can win the ball in the air. Gee, you've
(16:29):
got a great head start, haven't you. But they've got
to be good too. They're going to be good at
their role, you know. So Satiti that's in the same category,
really is? It's severe, you know, they're in that same
and came to a less extent because I think cane
is an out and out open side and nothing else.
So you know, severe and sa TDI I think, and
(16:52):
the same category, you know, same size, not big enough
to compete in the air for aerial possession against guys
who are six foot six or six foot eight, you know.
So that's a that's a real dinama at the moment.
I think that's why females playing against Japan Murray.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
It's always interesting, very interesting instructive chatting to you. Thanks
for taking taking our call and being so generous with
your time, might really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
No problem, See you, Adam, see Aladam Murray.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Murray mixed it with as always interesting views on the
state of rugby.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talks d B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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