November 23, 2024 • 13 mins
The All Blacks' 29-11 victory over Italy brings their 2024 rugby season to a close.
The team concluded the season with ten wins and four losses.
NZ Herald chief sportswriter Liam Napier joined Piney to unpack the team's year of rugby matches.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk zed b Well left hand side Bote and
Barrett Jordan. At this time Well Jordan made the break.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Now complete the try scoring action fifteen points to.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Six here second of four tries for the All Blacks
this morning, Will Jordan or second of three tries? I'm
just trying to remember three or four? It probably doesn't
matter too much. Let's bring in senior rugby writer with
the New Zealand Herald, co host of the Rugby Direct
podcast and one of the sharpest rugby minds I know,
Liam Napier. Liam, you're right in the Herald and I'm
going to quote this a flop of a season finale.
(00:44):
The All Blacks saved one of their worst performances of
the year, rivaled only by their loss to the Pumas
and Wellington for last. Not a lot of gray area there, mate,
You weren't that impressed after Nur declining no.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Look, it was a pretty tough watch to end the year,
wasn't it? And I guess the expectation for the All
Blacks was that they would deliver some form of definitive
state months to bookends their Northern tour and finish the year.
Just given the selection complexion, this was Scott Robertson's strongest
available team. He chose not to promote fringe prospects, you know, rookies,
(01:20):
guys that we haven't seen a lot of this year.
And still the All Blacks couldn't or they did put
away at Lee, but they struggled and there was a
really tough watch in patches. They finished the year with
a victory, but there's still a lot of lingering questions.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I think what was the problem this morning.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, look, I think you have to give credit to
the Italians. They brought a lot of physicality. They succeeded
in dragging the All Blacks into a dog fight. They
had a lot of success at the breakdown, just making
things scrappy. Their line speed caused the All Blacks a
lot of issues and I think just frustrations for the
All Blacks, whether it was not converting line breaks, lacking
(02:03):
patients on attack, pushing passes. They lost three line out
throws and so they had to revert to their dominant
scrum and they're more to really squeeze out that victory
and they got a couple of lake tries mark Talia,
but that was their first points in the second half
of the seventieth minute, so the margin probably flattered them
in the end as well.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
So when they get together again in the new year
or late this year, the All Blacks coaching staff and
they review and then they start planning, what are the
big you know, the big meaty issues that are going
to take up most of their thinking as they plan
for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, I think Scot Rodinson's an eternal optimist, so he'll
take a glass half full approach to this year. It's
a ten and four season, a seventy one percent win ratio,
and you'd have to break the season down. They started
scratchy against England's fifty percent in the Rugby Championship, and
(03:02):
then some real definitive improvements and if you step back
and think about this Northern tour, they're back to one
point away from an unbeaten five match sweep of the
North that includes Japan and England's islands, France which they blew,
and then this match against Italy. So a very good
return results wise on the India tour. But for me
(03:25):
Pine I would have liked to have seen a bit
more progression, particularly in this last match. We haven't seen
a number of guys in recent weeks and the performances
have been a bit hot cold. I think the ruck,
the presentation, the cleanouts really needs a lot of attention.
And there has been improvements for the attack. Bill Blacks
(03:48):
have really in that Test against Ireland in particularly used
the ball well so made some ground and there have
been you know, some standout performances Wallace for Tt and
the like, the emerging talent progression improvement in some areas.
But just given that last performance, it is really hard
to set back in the seat and say it's been
(04:09):
a successful year.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Who do you think has the inside running for the
seven jersey next year? And actually a wider question is
what does our best loose forward trio for this World
Cup cycle?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yes, incredibly hard, isn't it. Pineye I personally would shift
Ardie severe to open sider thought he was excellent there
against France. It allowed him to get into the wide
channels to play his natural game. He's still very good
at picking his moments at the breakdown Wallace to Titi
his favored position at number eight, and then you're looking
(04:43):
for I think a big blindside flanker. Now, whether that's
some Penny female, the jury's still out there. We haven't
seen quite enough of him. Even Adulton Papa ll could
perform that role.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Peter Luckeye was superb.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Wasn't he off the bench for seventy eight minutes in Paris?
I think he's a twenty one year old prospect. He
is the future of the Blacks loose Ford trio. It's
just whether that is the balance, the composition that they're
looking for. And then you've got guys like Ethan Blackheader
and Luke Jacobson in the wings. Personally, I don't think
(05:19):
you can have Dalton, Papa Lee, Ethan black Header and
Luke Jacobson in the same squad. They're very similar players,
and with the up ten po ball movement that the
All Blacks are looking to play, I think the style
of rugby probably suits a guy like Dalton more so
than a Luke Jacobson or Ethan Blackheader. So it's going
to be very interesting to see. You can't fit all
(05:40):
those guys in the squads and you ideally do sit
on a trio and give them time to gel and
progress in the coming years.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Do you think they will stick with Artie at eight,
not what you would do. Do you think they will
stick with Artie Savier at number eight?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I think they will go to Wallace at eight.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I think Scott Robinson has mentioned the fact that that's
his natural home and that's where we saw him play
his best rugby for the Chiefs in his rookie Super
Rugby season. I think for the balance of that trio,
I think Artie does need to go to seven and
Wallace at eight.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
But Peter Luckey has a bit of a wildcard because.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
He can play eight, he can play seven. He's probably
the ivy will bench guy for you at the stage
as he comes to grips with test rugby. But I
do expect now that sam Kain is moving on, and
I think sam Kain's presence complicated that mix. We probably
would have seen a lot more of Wallace at eight
(06:43):
had Scott Robinson not gone back to Sam Kain this year.
But now he's moving on to through Japan, I do
expect to see Wallace make that number eight Jersey his
home next year.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Two more yellow cards for New Zealand this morning. That's
eleven this year. Is that a concern?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
It's massively problematics. Puny didn't cost them hugely in this test.
Scott Barrow when he went off the All Blacks didn't
concede any points. Antolina Brown didn't affect them too much either,
But and big tests. It has proven costly this year
against the spring Boks, in particular in South Africa when
(07:21):
they were dealing with trying to get the composition of
the bench right. I think discipline in general is still
an issue with this All Black team when things don't
go their way, when they struggle to generate that quick ball,
when they're not winning the collisions, when they're on the
back foot of it, and when frustrations creep in or
when they have to defend their own line for long periods,
(07:41):
that's when they get in trouble. And eleven is too
many and it is going to cost you big type tests.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
A couple of departing All Blacks after over a year
a decade of service on the Black Jersey, Sam Kine,
TJ Pet Andada they played their final tests today. What
will their respective legacies be for you?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I think both have left a real imprint on the
New Zealand game, not just with the All Blacks, but
their respective super rugby teams and provinces. When I think
of both those guys, I think about the adversity that
they've overcome, whether that be Sam Cain and his broken neck,
or you know the difficult times he endured as All
(08:24):
Black captain and then to come back this year. Or
t J Pettina had the best part of two years
out of the game with his Kelly's injury and you
know consider retirements, thought it was over and then had
his time again. So the resilience those guys have shown,
I think also just the way they carry themselves. TJ
has also been a guy who's spoken for what he
(08:46):
believes in. I really respect that about him and Sam Caine.
He endured some of the most difficult times in the
All Blacks, but he was always genuine. I feel like
he always speaks from the heart as well. So a
tribute to those to those guys who now cashion at
the back end of their careers. But I guess it's
(09:09):
nice that they also get to finish on their own terms.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Indeed, or I've put together a list of five players
who I think are candidates for All Blacks Player of
the Year. So my list in alphabetical order, by surname
is Caleb Clark, Tyrel Lomax, Wallace, a Titi, Cody Taylor
and Tupaul Vai. Have I missed anybody there? And who
would you give it to if it's one of them
or somebody else?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, I think you've done well there. Pony had to
argue with that, look I on the whole complexion of
the season, I would probably say too, Pouvai. I think
Locke was such an area where, in the wake of
Brody Rettelic and Sam white Locks respective absences this year,
that there were major concerns for the All Blacks. Where
(09:53):
was the next who was going to stand up? How
are the All Blacks going to cover those absences? And
when you look at the way that Tupu has come
in and owned the line outs performed in big tests,
I think he has supremely exceeded all expectations. And those
other guys you mentioned have played well as well. Well,
(10:13):
it's the t t you know, the absolute breakout star
of the EF. He doesn't win World Rugby breakthrough player,
then there needs a formal investigation. Yeah, but the the
other guys in particularly, you can't tell World Rugby what
to do finally you know this, but maybe you know
check the envelopes or.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Will put you on the job.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
But I just I did also, just as I read
those names out, only one back and an outside back.
I don't know if that sees anything or doesn't say anything,
but Caleb Clark's the only guy I can really think
of who've had an outstanding season and a jersey higher
than eight.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, that's fair, and I think Will Jordan's been good,
hasn't he since he's gone back to fall back? But yes,
in terms of consistent performances, Kem Rouygert's had a good
last couple of tests when he came into the starting role.
But in terms of backs really stamping the authority, they
are quite few and far between. Maybe that says a
(11:16):
bit about the complexion of the All Blacks attack, the
way they're playing, and I guess the fact there's also
been a fair bit of chopping and changing when you
look at Bowden Baron and Damien McKenzie that are still
I think trying to find their way at first five
to a degree, And Caleb Clark was a guy who
also came into the season late in that left wing role.
(11:38):
Mark Tale is another one who's performed well when he's
been giving started opportunities. But Bill Blacks have only really
found their first choice back line at the back end
of the year, and so there has been a fair
bit of tweaking that's gone on there.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Okay, to finish, we're put in together Razors report card
this afternoon. You can give them a mark out of ten,
or you can use the old ABC B minors C
plus kind of arrangement if you like, how do you
rate what are you putting on Razors report card for
twenty twenty four in terms of a mark.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Traditionally quite a tough marker, poney, but you know, sees
also get degrees. But i'll go, I'll go, I'll go
a C plus or six out of tense. I think
this is a past mark for the year. But I
think everyone probably did expect a bit more evolution revolution
(12:33):
to a degree with Razor. I think he's been very
conservative when it's come to selection, be all black to one.
Some type tests. They also lost some type tests, so
I think there's improvement needed, but it is a tentative
step forward.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Shall we say, good stuff, love love chatting Raby with
you mate. We'll get some calls on the air to
see if they agree or disagree, but I'm always good
to chat Liam. Thanks for taking the time this afternoon.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Cheers Finny anytime, Mate good Man.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
That's Liam Apeia from the New Zealand Heroil. Read him
at enz heerl dot co dot.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
M Z or from Weekends Sport with Jason Fine. Listen
live to news Talk Set B weekends from midday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk zed b Well left hand side Bote and
Barrett Jordan. At this time Well Jordan made the break.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Now complete the try scoring action fifteen points to.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Six here second of four tries for the All Blacks
this morning, Will Jordan or second of three tries? I'm
just trying to remember three or four? It probably doesn't
matter too much. Let's bring in senior rugby writer with
the New Zealand Herald, co host of the Rugby Direct
podcast and one of the sharpest rugby minds I know,
Liam Napier. Liam, you're right in the Herald and I'm
going to quote this a flop of a season finale.
(00:44):
The All Blacks saved one of their worst performances of
the year, rivaled only by their loss to the Pumas
and Wellington for last. Not a lot of gray area there, mate,
You weren't that impressed after Nur declining no.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Look, it was a pretty tough watch to end the year,
wasn't it? And I guess the expectation for the All
Blacks was that they would deliver some form of definitive
state months to bookends their Northern tour and finish the year.
Just given the selection complexion, this was Scott Robertson's strongest
available team. He chose not to promote fringe prospects, you know, rookies,
(01:20):
guys that we haven't seen a lot of this year.
And still the All Blacks couldn't or they did put
away at Lee, but they struggled and there was a
really tough watch in patches. They finished the year with
a victory, but there's still a lot of lingering questions.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I think what was the problem this morning.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, look, I think you have to give credit to
the Italians. They brought a lot of physicality. They succeeded
in dragging the All Blacks into a dog fight. They
had a lot of success at the breakdown, just making
things scrappy. Their line speed caused the All Blacks a
lot of issues and I think just frustrations for the
All Blacks, whether it was not converting line breaks, lacking
(02:03):
patients on attack, pushing passes. They lost three line out
throws and so they had to revert to their dominant
scrum and they're more to really squeeze out that victory
and they got a couple of lake tries mark Talia,
but that was their first points in the second half
of the seventieth minute, so the margin probably flattered them
in the end as well.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
So when they get together again in the new year
or late this year, the All Blacks coaching staff and
they review and then they start planning, what are the
big you know, the big meaty issues that are going
to take up most of their thinking as they plan
for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, I think Scot Rodinson's an eternal optimist, so he'll
take a glass half full approach to this year. It's
a ten and four season, a seventy one percent win ratio,
and you'd have to break the season down. They started
scratchy against England's fifty percent in the Rugby Championship, and
(03:02):
then some real definitive improvements and if you step back
and think about this Northern tour, they're back to one
point away from an unbeaten five match sweep of the
North that includes Japan and England's islands, France which they blew,
and then this match against Italy. So a very good
return results wise on the India tour. But for me
(03:25):
Pine I would have liked to have seen a bit
more progression, particularly in this last match. We haven't seen
a number of guys in recent weeks and the performances
have been a bit hot cold. I think the ruck,
the presentation, the cleanouts really needs a lot of attention.
And there has been improvements for the attack. Bill Blacks
(03:48):
have really in that Test against Ireland in particularly used
the ball well so made some ground and there have
been you know, some standout performances Wallace for Tt and
the like, the emerging talent progression improvement in some areas.
But just given that last performance, it is really hard
to set back in the seat and say it's been
(04:09):
a successful year.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Who do you think has the inside running for the
seven jersey next year? And actually a wider question is
what does our best loose forward trio for this World
Cup cycle?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yes, incredibly hard, isn't it. Pineye I personally would shift
Ardie severe to open sider thought he was excellent there
against France. It allowed him to get into the wide
channels to play his natural game. He's still very good
at picking his moments at the breakdown Wallace to Titi
his favored position at number eight, and then you're looking
(04:43):
for I think a big blindside flanker. Now, whether that's
some Penny female, the jury's still out there. We haven't
seen quite enough of him. Even Adulton Papa ll could
perform that role.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Peter Luckeye was superb.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Wasn't he off the bench for seventy eight minutes in Paris?
I think he's a twenty one year old prospect. He
is the future of the Blacks loose Ford trio. It's
just whether that is the balance, the composition that they're
looking for. And then you've got guys like Ethan Blackheader
and Luke Jacobson in the wings. Personally, I don't think
(05:19):
you can have Dalton, Papa Lee, Ethan black Header and
Luke Jacobson in the same squad. They're very similar players,
and with the up ten po ball movement that the
All Blacks are looking to play, I think the style
of rugby probably suits a guy like Dalton more so
than a Luke Jacobson or Ethan Blackheader. So it's going
to be very interesting to see. You can't fit all
(05:40):
those guys in the squads and you ideally do sit
on a trio and give them time to gel and
progress in the coming years.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Do you think they will stick with Artie at eight,
not what you would do. Do you think they will
stick with Artie Savier at number eight?
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I think they will go to Wallace at eight.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I think Scott Robinson has mentioned the fact that that's
his natural home and that's where we saw him play
his best rugby for the Chiefs in his rookie Super
Rugby season. I think for the balance of that trio,
I think Artie does need to go to seven and
Wallace at eight.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
But Peter Luckey has a bit of a wildcard because.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
He can play eight, he can play seven. He's probably
the ivy will bench guy for you at the stage
as he comes to grips with test rugby. But I
do expect now that sam Kain is moving on, and
I think sam Kain's presence complicated that mix. We probably
would have seen a lot more of Wallace at eight
(06:43):
had Scott Robinson not gone back to Sam Kain this year.
But now he's moving on to through Japan, I do
expect to see Wallace make that number eight Jersey his
home next year.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Two more yellow cards for New Zealand this morning. That's
eleven this year. Is that a concern?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
It's massively problematics. Puny didn't cost them hugely in this test.
Scott Barrow when he went off the All Blacks didn't
concede any points. Antolina Brown didn't affect them too much either,
But and big tests. It has proven costly this year
against the spring Boks, in particular in South Africa when
(07:21):
they were dealing with trying to get the composition of
the bench right. I think discipline in general is still
an issue with this All Black team when things don't
go their way, when they struggle to generate that quick ball,
when they're not winning the collisions, when they're on the
back foot of it, and when frustrations creep in or
when they have to defend their own line for long periods,
(07:41):
that's when they get in trouble. And eleven is too
many and it is going to cost you big type tests.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
A couple of departing All Blacks after over a year
a decade of service on the Black Jersey, Sam Kine,
TJ Pet Andada they played their final tests today. What
will their respective legacies be for you?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I think both have left a real imprint on the
New Zealand game, not just with the All Blacks, but
their respective super rugby teams and provinces. When I think
of both those guys, I think about the adversity that
they've overcome, whether that be Sam Cain and his broken neck,
or you know the difficult times he endured as All
(08:24):
Black captain and then to come back this year. Or
t J Pettina had the best part of two years
out of the game with his Kelly's injury and you
know consider retirements, thought it was over and then had
his time again. So the resilience those guys have shown,
I think also just the way they carry themselves. TJ
has also been a guy who's spoken for what he
(08:46):
believes in. I really respect that about him and Sam Caine.
He endured some of the most difficult times in the
All Blacks, but he was always genuine. I feel like
he always speaks from the heart as well. So a
tribute to those to those guys who now cashion at
the back end of their careers. But I guess it's
(09:09):
nice that they also get to finish on their own terms.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Indeed, or I've put together a list of five players
who I think are candidates for All Blacks Player of
the Year. So my list in alphabetical order, by surname
is Caleb Clark, Tyrel Lomax, Wallace, a Titi, Cody Taylor
and Tupaul Vai. Have I missed anybody there? And who
would you give it to if it's one of them
or somebody else?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah, I think you've done well there. Pony had to
argue with that, look I on the whole complexion of
the season, I would probably say too, Pouvai. I think
Locke was such an area where, in the wake of
Brody Rettelic and Sam white Locks respective absences this year,
that there were major concerns for the All Blacks. Where
(09:53):
was the next who was going to stand up? How
are the All Blacks going to cover those absences? And
when you look at the way that Tupu has come
in and owned the line outs performed in big tests,
I think he has supremely exceeded all expectations. And those
other guys you mentioned have played well as well. Well,
(10:13):
it's the t t you know, the absolute breakout star
of the EF. He doesn't win World Rugby breakthrough player,
then there needs a formal investigation. Yeah, but the the
other guys in particularly, you can't tell World Rugby what
to do finally you know this, but maybe you know
check the envelopes or.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Will put you on the job.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
But I just I did also, just as I read
those names out, only one back and an outside back.
I don't know if that sees anything or doesn't say anything,
but Caleb Clark's the only guy I can really think
of who've had an outstanding season and a jersey higher
than eight.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, that's fair, and I think Will Jordan's been good,
hasn't he since he's gone back to fall back? But yes,
in terms of consistent performances, Kem Rouygert's had a good
last couple of tests when he came into the starting role.
But in terms of backs really stamping the authority, they
are quite few and far between. Maybe that says a
(11:16):
bit about the complexion of the All Blacks attack, the
way they're playing, and I guess the fact there's also
been a fair bit of chopping and changing when you
look at Bowden Baron and Damien McKenzie that are still
I think trying to find their way at first five
to a degree, And Caleb Clark was a guy who
also came into the season late in that left wing role.
(11:38):
Mark Tale is another one who's performed well when he's
been giving started opportunities. But Bill Blacks have only really
found their first choice back line at the back end
of the year, and so there has been a fair
bit of tweaking that's gone on there.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Okay, to finish, we're put in together Razors report card
this afternoon. You can give them a mark out of ten,
or you can use the old ABC B minors C
plus kind of arrangement if you like, how do you
rate what are you putting on Razors report card for
twenty twenty four in terms of a mark.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Traditionally quite a tough marker, poney, but you know, sees
also get degrees. But i'll go, I'll go, I'll go
a C plus or six out of tense. I think
this is a past mark for the year. But I
think everyone probably did expect a bit more evolution revolution
(12:33):
to a degree with Razor. I think he's been very
conservative when it's come to selection, be all black to one.
Some type tests. They also lost some type tests, so
I think there's improvement needed, but it is a tentative
step forward.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Shall we say, good stuff, love love chatting Raby with
you mate. We'll get some calls on the air to
see if they agree or disagree, but I'm always good
to chat Liam. Thanks for taking the time this afternoon.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Cheers Finny anytime, Mate good Man.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
That's Liam Apeia from the New Zealand Heroil. Read him
at enz heerl dot co dot.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
M Z or from Weekends Sport with Jason Fine. Listen
live to news Talk Set B weekends from midday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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