March 1, 2025 • 10 mins
The ICC Champions Trophy series is still underway, with New Zealand and India set to face off this evening.
The Black Caps and India are both through to the semi-finals - but it's still unclear who they can expect to see in the matches ahead.
Former Black Caps coach Mike Hesson joined Piney to discuss.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZEDB well.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
As mentioned and in case you missed it, a sorry
end to a dismal campaign for England and crickets Champions Trophy,
thumped by seven wickets by South Africa in Karachi. We're
already out of the tournament after losing their opening two matches.
England all out for one hundred and seventy nine in
the thirty ninth over. The Proteas needed just twenty nine
overs in one ball to complete their successful run chase.
(00:36):
It was also England's seventh consecutive One Day International defeat.
New Zealand meantime, doing a lot better. They play their
final group game against India overnight tonight, having already qualified
for the Semis with wins over Bangladesh and host Pakistan.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
That's it, it's all over.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Henry does the job and New Zealand win this match
convincingly by sixty runs. It's been a polished performance.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
My black Caps coach and one of the more astute
cricket analysts going around, Mike Hessen is with us having
watched I reckon pretty much every ball of the tournament.
Judging from your social media and the stuff I've seen
from your Mike, thanks for joining us. What have you
made of New Zealand's performances so far in their opening
wins over Pakistan and Bangladesh?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I thought, very yeah, very clinical, really done as much
as they needed to do. I thought against Pakistan, which
was always going to be a really tough game. Obviously
against the home nation, New Zealand were exceptional. And what
I like, I guess is that there are so many
different players that have stood up at different times. So
obviously Rutchan missed the first part, you know, turns up
(01:46):
and bangs out one of the best hundreds you'll see.
And then prior to that, Tom Lathan was obviously under
the pump heading into the tournament and then just showed
you know how good he is. And Will Young, you know,
under pressure losing two early wickets, you know, losing Kin
and Devin, and then Will Young who probably wasn't even
going to be playing that game, you know, steps up
as well. So and you know the spinners have showed
(02:09):
that they are as good as any other team around
as well. So you know, Michael Brace Will stood up
along with Mitchell Satner, when required. So yeah, just a
really nice performance and I think they're taking along well.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, I want to drill down into a couple of
points you've made there. Let's start in the top four,
but of a log jam there, Hess, because if we
assume Williamson and Ravendra are two of the top four,
when Daryl Mitchell comes back, who misses out Young Conway Mitchell,
what's the makeup of the top four.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah, look, I mean Conway's likely to miss out, but
it's a shame because he's actually has started to point
in touch and you know the Try series, he looked
one of their best players and he I think he
would have played ahead of will Young in that opening match.
I think if for Ruchien would have played. But you
know that the quality of Will Young's hundred just I
just reaffirmed to the side that you can't leave mount.
(02:59):
You know, he's been exceptional the last eighteen months. So
it's a shame because Conway's actually played a lot of
cricket when he hasn't been in great touch and everyone's
sort of been calling for his head and now he's
actually playing beautifully and he's probably going to miss out.
So I think Mitchell just slots back in the four
where he was before he gets sick.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Ruchian Ravender you mentioned him before the hundred against Bangladesh
hundred and twelve, one hundred and five balls without really
even looking like he was trying. What do you think
ruch In Revendra's ceiling might be.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Look, it's early, isn't it. But the technique that he
has is so repeatable, and I mean he's built that
up over obviously a long period of time. You know,
he's the epitome of the ten thousand hours of us
trying to you know, perfect things, and his technique and
all conditions around the world will stand up. It's just
you know, whether he can keep I guess that drive
(03:49):
to be successful every day, and you know that he
seems to have. He seems to have found the tempo
that he needs to bat add an international cricket and
he's spent a few years in domestic cricket trying to
find it. You know, had the odd game, you know,
in New Zealand A and then so went back again,
never quite clear, and then once it clicked that you
know that that will cup just over a year ago
(04:11):
in India. He just hasn't looked back and across all formats,
so there's no reason obviously if he can continue doing
what he's doing that he can't be right up there
in the top echelon of our.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Batsman Michael Bracewell one for thirty eight and four for
twenty six and his two ten over spells. What is
he doing with the ball that is so effective?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
But he's always bring the stumps into play, So even
though he's bowling to right handers, you know he's not
afraid of throwing the ball outside off spinning back to
the stumps. So you know often they say, and you
know white ball cricket, you know you're off spinner can't
bowl to the right hander. But he's got his ability
and he's got a lot of overspin on the ball,
so he's got huge fingers, so he gets huge amount
(04:52):
of revs on the ball, which whilch get it to dip.
So even if you are looking to take him downtown,
you know he gets that overspin, so you end up
hitting the top of the bat. You know, you don't hit,
you don't hit exactly where you want, so it either
hits the inside rf or the or the top corner.
So he's just you know, he's just a really subtle,
skillful bowler, and he's got a he's got quite a
(05:13):
bit of bravery, you know, in terms of being able
to throw the ball up and take take the pace
out of it, very similar to much Setna.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Over half of the overs bold across the entire tournament
have been bold by spinners. But what other most effective
seam bowler is doing really well that this tournament has well.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
They work at too early because they're swinging the new
ball and I mean they have to pitch it up.
But pitching it up in Pakistan is probably two meters
shorter than it is in New Zealand because the low
skiddy bounce. So they're pitching it up. They're finding a
link that still brings in the top of the stumps
and therefore allowing the ball to swing, but also not
you know, not that long half folly where you can
(05:51):
you can lean into it easily.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So they're doing that.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
And then at the back end, when you know everyone
else is going around the park, they're actually hitting the corners.
So they're not they're not going out to stumps. They're
either trying to hit the inside heel. They're trying to
bowl that slide, we will bounce. All that bounces sort of
just over your left eye, or they're hitting the wideline.
You know, they're not bowling down Main Street, which is
sort of down that you know, off stump to fifth stump,
(06:14):
which is pretty much where the batters are trying to
line it up at that time.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Are you starting to see Mitchell Santner's Captain c style
start to develop in fifty over cricket?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah, I think we are. I think he's he's certainly
not afraid of using spin and I suppose that's you know,
obviously byproduct of what he does, but he also you know,
he's seeing a quick match up and he's instinctively making
the change. You know, you see Phillips coming when they
are two left handers, you know, when they're playing Bangladesh,
you know straight away you bring him in. It might
only be for two overs, but that just gives him
(06:46):
a lot of flexibility. I think we're going to see
a little bit more of his style with the next
selection because at the moment our seamers are very front
end loaded. So you know all three of our seamers,
you know, Henry O'Rourke and Jamison are very much new
ball bowlers, and they're very good in the first fifteen
(07:08):
overs of a map. Neither of them you would say,
specialists at the back end. So it's just where the
New Zealand are going to be happy going that way
and trying to take wickets early and then squeeze with spin,
or whether they might look at someone like a Duffy
who can probably more control the middle in the end
a little bit better than Jamison for example, So that'll
be the style they want to go. You know they
(07:28):
want to go. Do we want to attack with Jamison
or we want to have a bit more control with
someone like Duffy.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
You're tweeted last night if someone says the New Zealand
the India match at the Champions Trophy is a dead rubber,
they clearly don't understand the psyche of top athletes today.
How important is a good performance for New Zealand tonight?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Well, I mean New Zealand won five one days in
a row. Now that's you know that that gives you confidence.
You know that gives you a real belief heading into
the playoff side of things. So the last thing you
want to do is take the foot off the gas.
That we know one in that lineup that's saying, hey,
give me a rest. I can guarantee you that you know, though,
will be wanting to play against India in Dubai, that
will be wanting to challenge themselves against the best, and
(08:08):
they want to be wanting to stand out and quite
rightfully they want They'll be wanting to win and that'll
obviously dictate who they play in the Semis. But you
know the most important thing is that New Zealand win
and they gained confidence heading into the playoffs, all.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Right, And if they do win, they'll face Australia. If
they were to lose tonight, they'll take on South Africa.
Do you think, yes, that New Zealand match up better
against one or the other of those two nations.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I think New Zealand match up better against Australia at
the moment, just with the Australian squad that they have.
I mean that bowling line up is very inexperienced. Bar
Adam Zamper. You know, we saw Spencer Johnson the other
day in conditions that you know were very favorable. You know,
they should have had it had Afghanistan four for twenty
on that sort of surface if if Spencer Johnson was
(08:54):
able to land the ball in the same spot, you know,
more than twice. So if they had at Josh Hazelwood
or Mitch or a Cummins or even a Stark, you know,
that game would have been over before it started. So
I think, you know, the Aussy batting lineup is still dangerous,
but they don't have that middle order power that they
that they had previously either, you know, with your stillness
(09:14):
and Mitch marsh and co. So there's definitely some holes
in that Australian side. You know, Matt Schortz just got
out injured as well, so they are they are reeling
a bit. That's another reason why New Zealand have to
make sure they put the foot down against India today.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Pretty brutal hours for cricket fans on this side of
the world. Here ten o'clock starts New Zealand timing. You're
getting any sleep.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Not a lot. I mean I genually log in about
eight thirty for the pre shows over there and finish
about seven in the morning, so it's I didn't stay
the whole night last night. Thankfully, I've got a bit
of sleep, but yeah, tonight it'll be a big night for.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Sure, fantastic. Well, I appreciate you taking the time to
chet to us. There's always always appreciate your expertise.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Pleasure.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Thanks Bunny, No, thank you, Mike. Mike Kessen there former
Black Caps coach and yeah, highly sought after cricket analysts.
So yeah, ten o'clock tonight. That game is underway. New
Zealand up against India in Dubai. As I've said a
couple of times, doesn't matter. If New Zealand lose the game,
they will still go through to the semifinals. If they
were to lose, they will take on South Africa. If
(10:17):
they win the game, they will face Australia. That's the
way that the draw is at the moment, and that game,
regardless of whether they finish top or second, is on
Wednesday night, Wednesday night at ten o'clock. Doesn't matter which
of the results happens tonight the semifinal involving New Zealand
Wednesday Night against either South Africa or Australia from ten o'clock.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk sed B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZEDB well.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
As mentioned and in case you missed it, a sorry
end to a dismal campaign for England and crickets Champions Trophy,
thumped by seven wickets by South Africa in Karachi. We're
already out of the tournament after losing their opening two matches.
England all out for one hundred and seventy nine in
the thirty ninth over. The Proteas needed just twenty nine
overs in one ball to complete their successful run chase.
(00:36):
It was also England's seventh consecutive One Day International defeat.
New Zealand meantime, doing a lot better. They play their
final group game against India overnight tonight, having already qualified
for the Semis with wins over Bangladesh and host Pakistan.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
That's it, it's all over.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Henry does the job and New Zealand win this match
convincingly by sixty runs. It's been a polished performance.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
My black Caps coach and one of the more astute
cricket analysts going around, Mike Hessen is with us having
watched I reckon pretty much every ball of the tournament.
Judging from your social media and the stuff I've seen
from your Mike, thanks for joining us. What have you
made of New Zealand's performances so far in their opening
wins over Pakistan and Bangladesh?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I thought, very yeah, very clinical, really done as much
as they needed to do. I thought against Pakistan, which
was always going to be a really tough game. Obviously
against the home nation, New Zealand were exceptional. And what
I like, I guess is that there are so many
different players that have stood up at different times. So
obviously Rutchan missed the first part, you know, turns up
(01:46):
and bangs out one of the best hundreds you'll see.
And then prior to that, Tom Lathan was obviously under
the pump heading into the tournament and then just showed
you know how good he is. And Will Young, you know,
under pressure losing two early wickets, you know, losing Kin
and Devin, and then Will Young who probably wasn't even
going to be playing that game, you know, steps up
as well. So and you know the spinners have showed
(02:09):
that they are as good as any other team around
as well. So you know, Michael Brace Will stood up
along with Mitchell Satner, when required. So yeah, just a
really nice performance and I think they're taking along well.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, I want to drill down into a couple of
points you've made there. Let's start in the top four,
but of a log jam there, Hess, because if we
assume Williamson and Ravendra are two of the top four,
when Daryl Mitchell comes back, who misses out Young Conway Mitchell,
what's the makeup of the top four.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah, look, I mean Conway's likely to miss out, but
it's a shame because he's actually has started to point
in touch and you know the Try series, he looked
one of their best players and he I think he
would have played ahead of will Young in that opening match.
I think if for Ruchien would have played. But you
know that the quality of Will Young's hundred just I
just reaffirmed to the side that you can't leave mount.
(02:59):
You know, he's been exceptional the last eighteen months. So
it's a shame because Conway's actually played a lot of
cricket when he hasn't been in great touch and everyone's
sort of been calling for his head and now he's
actually playing beautifully and he's probably going to miss out.
So I think Mitchell just slots back in the four
where he was before he gets sick.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Ruchian Ravender you mentioned him before the hundred against Bangladesh
hundred and twelve, one hundred and five balls without really
even looking like he was trying. What do you think
ruch In Revendra's ceiling might be.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Look, it's early, isn't it. But the technique that he
has is so repeatable, and I mean he's built that
up over obviously a long period of time. You know,
he's the epitome of the ten thousand hours of us
trying to you know, perfect things, and his technique and
all conditions around the world will stand up. It's just
you know, whether he can keep I guess that drive
(03:49):
to be successful every day, and you know that he
seems to have. He seems to have found the tempo
that he needs to bat add an international cricket and
he's spent a few years in domestic cricket trying to
find it. You know, had the odd game, you know,
in New Zealand A and then so went back again,
never quite clear, and then once it clicked that you
know that that will cup just over a year ago
(04:11):
in India. He just hasn't looked back and across all formats,
so there's no reason obviously if he can continue doing
what he's doing that he can't be right up there
in the top echelon of our.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Batsman Michael Bracewell one for thirty eight and four for
twenty six and his two ten over spells. What is
he doing with the ball that is so effective?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
But he's always bring the stumps into play, So even
though he's bowling to right handers, you know he's not
afraid of throwing the ball outside off spinning back to
the stumps. So you know often they say, and you
know white ball cricket, you know you're off spinner can't
bowl to the right hander. But he's got his ability
and he's got a lot of overspin on the ball,
so he's got huge fingers, so he gets huge amount
(04:52):
of revs on the ball, which whilch get it to dip.
So even if you are looking to take him downtown,
you know he gets that overspin, so you end up
hitting the top of the bat. You know, you don't hit,
you don't hit exactly where you want, so it either
hits the inside rf or the or the top corner.
So he's just you know, he's just a really subtle,
skillful bowler, and he's got a he's got quite a
(05:13):
bit of bravery, you know, in terms of being able
to throw the ball up and take take the pace
out of it, very similar to much Setna.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Over half of the overs bold across the entire tournament
have been bold by spinners. But what other most effective
seam bowler is doing really well that this tournament has well.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
They work at too early because they're swinging the new
ball and I mean they have to pitch it up.
But pitching it up in Pakistan is probably two meters
shorter than it is in New Zealand because the low
skiddy bounce. So they're pitching it up. They're finding a
link that still brings in the top of the stumps
and therefore allowing the ball to swing, but also not
you know, not that long half folly where you can
(05:51):
you can lean into it easily.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So they're doing that.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
And then at the back end, when you know everyone
else is going around the park, they're actually hitting the corners.
So they're not they're not going out to stumps. They're
either trying to hit the inside heel. They're trying to
bowl that slide, we will bounce. All that bounces sort of
just over your left eye, or they're hitting the wideline.
You know, they're not bowling down Main Street, which is
sort of down that you know, off stump to fifth stump,
(06:14):
which is pretty much where the batters are trying to
line it up at that time.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Are you starting to see Mitchell Santner's Captain c style
start to develop in fifty over cricket?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah, I think we are. I think he's he's certainly
not afraid of using spin and I suppose that's you know,
obviously byproduct of what he does, but he also you know,
he's seeing a quick match up and he's instinctively making
the change. You know, you see Phillips coming when they
are two left handers, you know, when they're playing Bangladesh,
you know straight away you bring him in. It might
only be for two overs, but that just gives him
(06:46):
a lot of flexibility. I think we're going to see
a little bit more of his style with the next
selection because at the moment our seamers are very front
end loaded. So you know all three of our seamers,
you know, Henry O'Rourke and Jamison are very much new
ball bowlers, and they're very good in the first fifteen
(07:08):
overs of a map. Neither of them you would say,
specialists at the back end. So it's just where the
New Zealand are going to be happy going that way
and trying to take wickets early and then squeeze with spin,
or whether they might look at someone like a Duffy
who can probably more control the middle in the end
a little bit better than Jamison for example, So that'll
be the style they want to go. You know they
(07:28):
want to go. Do we want to attack with Jamison
or we want to have a bit more control with
someone like Duffy.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
You're tweeted last night if someone says the New Zealand
the India match at the Champions Trophy is a dead rubber,
they clearly don't understand the psyche of top athletes today.
How important is a good performance for New Zealand tonight?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Well, I mean New Zealand won five one days in
a row. Now that's you know that that gives you confidence.
You know that gives you a real belief heading into
the playoff side of things. So the last thing you
want to do is take the foot off the gas.
That we know one in that lineup that's saying, hey,
give me a rest. I can guarantee you that you know, though,
will be wanting to play against India in Dubai, that
will be wanting to challenge themselves against the best, and
(08:08):
they want to be wanting to stand out and quite
rightfully they want They'll be wanting to win and that'll
obviously dictate who they play in the Semis. But you
know the most important thing is that New Zealand win
and they gained confidence heading into the playoffs, all.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Right, And if they do win, they'll face Australia. If
they were to lose tonight, they'll take on South Africa.
Do you think, yes, that New Zealand match up better
against one or the other of those two nations.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I think New Zealand match up better against Australia at
the moment, just with the Australian squad that they have.
I mean that bowling line up is very inexperienced. Bar
Adam Zamper. You know, we saw Spencer Johnson the other
day in conditions that you know were very favorable. You know,
they should have had it had Afghanistan four for twenty
on that sort of surface if if Spencer Johnson was
(08:54):
able to land the ball in the same spot, you know,
more than twice. So if they had at Josh Hazelwood
or Mitch or a Cummins or even a Stark, you know,
that game would have been over before it started. So
I think, you know, the Aussy batting lineup is still dangerous,
but they don't have that middle order power that they
that they had previously either, you know, with your stillness
(09:14):
and Mitch marsh and co. So there's definitely some holes
in that Australian side. You know, Matt Schortz just got
out injured as well, so they are they are reeling
a bit. That's another reason why New Zealand have to
make sure they put the foot down against India today.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Pretty brutal hours for cricket fans on this side of
the world. Here ten o'clock starts New Zealand timing. You're
getting any sleep.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Not a lot. I mean I genually log in about
eight thirty for the pre shows over there and finish
about seven in the morning, so it's I didn't stay
the whole night last night. Thankfully, I've got a bit
of sleep, but yeah, tonight it'll be a big night for.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Sure, fantastic. Well, I appreciate you taking the time to
chet to us. There's always always appreciate your expertise.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Pleasure.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Thanks Bunny, No, thank you, Mike. Mike Kessen there former
Black Caps coach and yeah, highly sought after cricket analysts.
So yeah, ten o'clock tonight. That game is underway. New
Zealand up against India in Dubai. As I've said a
couple of times, doesn't matter. If New Zealand lose the game,
they will still go through to the semifinals. If they
were to lose, they will take on South Africa. If
(10:17):
they win the game, they will face Australia. That's the
way that the draw is at the moment, and that game,
regardless of whether they finish top or second, is on
Wednesday night, Wednesday night at ten o'clock. Doesn't matter which
of the results happens tonight the semifinal involving New Zealand
Wednesday Night against either South Africa or Australia from ten o'clock.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk sed B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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