March 29, 2025 • 13 mins
Racing experts and fans alike have reacted with shock after Liam Lawson was recently axed from Red Bull's senior Formula 1 team.
Yuki Tsunoda has been promoted from Racing Bulls in place of the Kiwi ahead of next week's Japanese Grand Prix.
Toyota Racing Series founder Barrie Thomlinson joined Piney to discuss.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk zedb SO.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
News broke late on Thursday evening New Zealand Time that
Liam Lawson has been demoted from the Red Bull Formula
One team, confirming widespread speculation in the early part of
the week. Liam Lawson lasted just two Grand Prix behind
the wheel Melbourne and Shanghai, after winning the race to
partner defending champion Max for Stappin at the end of
last year. He's been replaced by Japanese driver Yuki Sonoda
(00:35):
for his home event next weekend at Suzuka, less than
one hundred days after he was signed, so Lawso will
joined the Racing Bulls team and race for them. Team
principal Christian Horner says watching Liam Lawson's struggle has been
difficult and they've decided to make the switch early to
help him develop. There are widespread reports that Max for
(00:57):
Stappin himself does not agree with the decision. Red Bull
Motorsport advisor Helmet Marco has confirmed that Barry Tomlinson has
found under of the Toyota Racing Series, which many of
our top drivers, including Liam Lawson, raced in Barry, thanks
for joining us on weekend Sport. Before we get into
some specifics, what did you make of this decision by
(01:18):
Red Ball in general terms?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Very good morning, Jason. Well it's actually afternoon, isn't it. Yeah. Look, yeah,
of course, like most of the New Zealand, we're you know,
in a state of shock as to you know, why
this has happened. But you know, I guess most of
us would also know, you know, if we follow the
sport that you know, we saw Liam at the first
(01:43):
two rounds enduring some pretty difficult situations that frankly, you know,
would to test the world did test is confidence? And
you know, so it's just one of the things that
have happened unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Two races though Barry was he given long enough?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
No in terms of not long enough. But if we
go back a step, Jason, I think you know what
they've done by making this move. Really Red Bull have
admitted that they probably made an era last year by
putting Daniel in the car for that first part of
the season in twenty twenty four and stood Liam down.
(02:24):
And I think you know, when you look backwards, that's
the big era that Red Bull made, you know, because
Daniel obviously did Melbourne, he did all early tracks and
while Liam sat on the sidelines and really suffered for
not having the opportunity to gain the experience in a
less pressured environment. And then of course the step them
(02:46):
into this highly pressured environment with a four time world champion,
a driver that's been in the sport for ten years,
driving in the same team is very very high pressure.
So you know, it was very difficult for Liam to
step in there on tracks that he didn't know in
a car that was, you know, they've obviously admitted now
(03:06):
is extremely difficult to drive and very much centered around,
you know, the driving style of Max, which is a
very you know, different driving style to probably most racing
driver's preference.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, I want to pick up on a couple of
comments there, including including the car itself. But we're we're
red bull right to give Liam the full time seat
for this year.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Well obviously, you know, if we look at it, no,
you know, if you know with what's happened, you know
you'd have to say no, they weren't right to give
it to them, you know, he look, it's a high
performance sport, Jason, and in the end, you know, Liam's
been thrown into the deep end really and you know
(03:49):
it's it's it's not worked. And I think also important
to remember that, you know, unfortunately in Melbourne f P Three,
for Liam, he sat in the in the in the garage,
and that particular practice session on the Saturday morning really
instigated Limb's lies. And I think also you know that
(04:10):
you know, doctor Marco's kind of intimated the same thing
that you know to sit out that session, which was
so important because that's where you know, build confidence, find
the speed to go into that first qualifying session. And
it didn't didn't work for Liam, you know, sitting in
the garage. So there's a whole bunch of things that
can spied against Limb unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Indeed, and many beyond his control. He hasn't even driven
yet Barry on a track that he knows. That opportunity
would have come next weekend and will still come in
the racing balls car. Why wouldn't they have given him
a chance to at least race in Japan a track
that he knows.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I think also importantly Jason, that you know, yes, the
word demoted has been used, but we've got to remember
he's not been demoted to a back of the Grid team.
So you know, I say, you know, yes, it's difficult, Yes,
you know it would be nice to have been quite different.
But and again he has the opportun unity to go
into really what effectively is last year's Red Bull you know,
(05:10):
RB twenty. A lot of the parts that are on that,
you know RB twenty are now on the current Racing
Bulls car. So you know, in the end he's moved
to a very competitive team, proved by the qualifying results
in the first two rounds by Yuki and by you know,
Hazar Hedger. So in the end, you know, you've got
(05:33):
a great opportunity in a very competitive car to score
a lot of points this year. And I think let's
look at the positives on that side, and I think
probably with a little bit of thought. You know, I
know that Limb would have been very down about the decision,
but now I think he'll be on the up and
he'll be looking forward to going forward and being showing
why he deserves a top role in the future.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Oh, no doubt. And you've led me into the next
thing I was going to ask you about, and that
is whether Liam could actually drive better in the Racing
Balls team. I know he hasn't done you know, any
good in the in the Red Bull car only too races,
but could he be better inside an environment with lease
pressure and the chance to rebuild some confidence one and
(06:14):
you know, I.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Think, you know, it's it's well proven. The Racing Balls
car is highly competitive, certainly in qualifying and even in
the race. I think it's doing, you know, done very well.
The other part is that the Racing Balls team is
run by Lawrence Mecki. Now Mecky came. He's had a
very long career in junior formula with young drivers and
then before going to Racing Balls was the Ferrari if
(06:37):
one team is a sporting director. He worked with a
lot of young drivers at Junior Drivers in Ferrari to
work with some drivers, one of which was Brendan Hartley.
Brendan not well probably not well known, but Brendan drove
the Ferrari if one simulator for a season in his
time after you know, his various career changes, but as
(06:59):
part of his roles so you know, Lawrence will will
really help along with the engineers who are used to
working with young drivers, but they will really helped Liam
and get around them give him opportunity to show that
he actually, you know, a world class driver.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
The Red Bull card clearly set up for Max Vistappen
and clearly very difficult to drive. Will Yuki Sanoda be
able to drive it any better than Liam Lawson's been
able to?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Well, you know, Yuki's made a lot of comment, isn't he.
You know, he's ended his fifth season in Formula One,
and I think that's important to understand as well. You know,
Liam has done eleven twelve Grand Prix and Yuki's done
well and his five fifth season now, so you know,
Yuki has been thrown into the deep end, and now
(07:45):
he has to show that he is a world class
driver capable of being a teammate to Max Vstappen. Look,
he's had a lot more experience in various set up cars.
He will have probably a little bit more skill and
knowledge on how to get the best out of the
car that Max, you know, drives. And I know now
I believe that Red Bull looking to set up the
(08:08):
second car in a different way than they do Maxis,
which is a new thing for Red Bull. I've always
i think, really followed Maxis set up the whole way.
So I think we'll find in Japan, that Max will
have his car, which I know you know is being developed.
You know, in the week weeks since the last Grand Prix,
they will be furiously frantically developed trying to redevelop that
(08:32):
car because in the end it's probably the fourth best
car at the moment, and the second car with Yuki
in it will be probably running quite a different setup
and I think, you know, so it'll be very interesting
to see how that goes. And you know, time will
tell on that one. Jason.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Red Bull have never promoted a driver back into the
top team that they have previously demoted. Can you see
a scenario under which Liam Lawson drives for Red Bull again?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Look, the fact is, you know that Max will leave
Red Bull at some point. There's just you know, in
the end, Max has been ten years at red Bull,
you know, as with Lewis Hamilton, Max will look for
new opportunities and so at some stage Red Bull need
two quality drivers to be able to step into the
(09:23):
Nimbu team. So if Limb can show that he's a
world class drug, which we all in New Zealand believe
he is, by going to racing balls doing a really
good job this year and importantly beating his teammate, then
absolutely they will promote him back into that Red Bull
team at some stage. There's just no doubt in my mind.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Very interesting, Barry, thanks so much for learning us your expertise.
I've learned a lot. Thanks for taking the time for
the chat this afternoon.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
My nsure, Jason, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
All the best, mate, Barry Tomlins in there. It's Barry Tomlinson,
the founder of the Toyota Racing Series with some really
interesting thoughts. There a good insight as well. Keen to
hear your views now. As I said, your chance to react.
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. I'm sure you've
read and listened to plenty of reaction to this. What
Red Ball have done to Liam Lawson, for me is
(10:12):
an absolute disgrace. He's been given an opportunity to be
the second driver in their team and has been given
almost zero support whatsoever and now demoted with Yuki Sonoda
given that seat. Now, you will not convince me, and
of course I stand to be corrected, but you will
not convince me Yuki Sonoda is a better driver than
(10:34):
Liam Lawson. Lawson was put in that seat for a
number of reasons, one of which is his mental resilience,
and he is going to need all of that hours.
He tries to bounce back from this in many ways.
As I said to Barry, the pressure comes off. Now
he goes into the Racing Balls team. Yuki Sonoda, though,
isn't going to be able to drive a car that's
(10:54):
set up for Maxvstappen any better than Liam Lawson can.
Interesting to hear Bowry say, then Red Ball are now
looking to set that car up differently. Well, that would
have been helpful for Liam, wouldn't it. Two races on
unfamiliar tracks, one of which was in the pouring rain
in Melbourne. It's far too small a sample size for
his driving to be accurately assessed. And we're about to
(11:17):
get to Japan, a track he actually knows, and I've
taken the keys off him. Look, he'll recuperate, he'll bounce back.
He is resilient and no doubt he'll drive well for
Racing Balls. But it paints Red Ball in an absolutely
appalling light. Yes, I know they are massive results drive
an organization, but they have been utterly negligent in their
(11:41):
duty of care to Liam Lawson. And this is where
we now are in an elite sporting landscape of instant gratification.
We have lost any ability, any ability at all to
be patient. Imagine if you opened a restaurant and after
a couple of nights you didn't get the tables as
full as you wanted, so you sacked the chef. Things
(12:04):
take time. You cannot Some say okay, well he's had
a couple of races, hasn't done the job. We're dropping in. Well,
they have done that, but it's not the right thing
to do. You might have listened to Mark Webber on
the radio with me last week. In the first seven
years of Mark Weber's Grand Prix career, he made the
podium twice. In the next five years he made the
(12:25):
podium forty times, forty four to zero. It takes time.
Red Ball have been shown here to have absolutely no
patience at all, and I know they're under pressure, but
we've lost the ability across a lot of elite sport
to just hover above things, take a breath and say, actually,
this is going to take a bit of time. Imagine
if we've got rid of Sir Graham Henry after the
(12:47):
two thousand and seven Rugby World Cup, we never would
have had twenty eleven, he never would have been Sir
Graham Henry. Same goes for Phoenix coach John Kloertaliana. Right
now they're calling for his head. A year ago he
was top of the pops, guiding the NIXT to their
best ever finish. It's endemic across elite sport, this drive
for instant results, and it's not helping anybody. In fact,
(13:09):
it's hurting players, drivers, coaches, everybody associated with elite sport
because those in charge simply cannot see pass the end
of next week.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk set B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk zedb SO.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
News broke late on Thursday evening New Zealand Time that
Liam Lawson has been demoted from the Red Bull Formula
One team, confirming widespread speculation in the early part of
the week. Liam Lawson lasted just two Grand Prix behind
the wheel Melbourne and Shanghai, after winning the race to
partner defending champion Max for Stappin at the end of
last year. He's been replaced by Japanese driver Yuki Sonoda
(00:35):
for his home event next weekend at Suzuka, less than
one hundred days after he was signed, so Lawso will
joined the Racing Bulls team and race for them. Team
principal Christian Horner says watching Liam Lawson's struggle has been
difficult and they've decided to make the switch early to
help him develop. There are widespread reports that Max for
(00:57):
Stappin himself does not agree with the decision. Red Bull
Motorsport advisor Helmet Marco has confirmed that Barry Tomlinson has
found under of the Toyota Racing Series, which many of
our top drivers, including Liam Lawson, raced in Barry, thanks
for joining us on weekend Sport. Before we get into
some specifics, what did you make of this decision by
(01:18):
Red Ball in general terms?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Very good morning, Jason. Well it's actually afternoon, isn't it. Yeah. Look, yeah,
of course, like most of the New Zealand, we're you know,
in a state of shock as to you know, why
this has happened. But you know, I guess most of
us would also know, you know, if we follow the
sport that you know, we saw Liam at the first
(01:43):
two rounds enduring some pretty difficult situations that frankly, you know,
would to test the world did test is confidence? And
you know, so it's just one of the things that
have happened unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Two races though Barry was he given long enough?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
No in terms of not long enough. But if we
go back a step, Jason, I think you know what
they've done by making this move. Really Red Bull have
admitted that they probably made an era last year by
putting Daniel in the car for that first part of
the season in twenty twenty four and stood Liam down.
(02:24):
And I think you know, when you look backwards, that's
the big era that Red Bull made, you know, because
Daniel obviously did Melbourne, he did all early tracks and
while Liam sat on the sidelines and really suffered for
not having the opportunity to gain the experience in a
less pressured environment. And then of course the step them
(02:46):
into this highly pressured environment with a four time world champion,
a driver that's been in the sport for ten years,
driving in the same team is very very high pressure.
So you know, it was very difficult for Liam to
step in there on tracks that he didn't know in
a car that was, you know, they've obviously admitted now
(03:06):
is extremely difficult to drive and very much centered around,
you know, the driving style of Max, which is a
very you know, different driving style to probably most racing
driver's preference.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, I want to pick up on a couple of
comments there, including including the car itself. But we're we're
red bull right to give Liam the full time seat
for this year.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Well obviously, you know, if we look at it, no,
you know, if you know with what's happened, you know
you'd have to say no, they weren't right to give
it to them, you know, he look, it's a high
performance sport, Jason, and in the end, you know, Liam's
been thrown into the deep end really and you know
(03:49):
it's it's it's not worked. And I think also important
to remember that, you know, unfortunately in Melbourne f P Three,
for Liam, he sat in the in the in the garage,
and that particular practice session on the Saturday morning really
instigated Limb's lies. And I think also you know that
(04:10):
you know, doctor Marco's kind of intimated the same thing
that you know to sit out that session, which was
so important because that's where you know, build confidence, find
the speed to go into that first qualifying session. And
it didn't didn't work for Liam, you know, sitting in
the garage. So there's a whole bunch of things that
can spied against Limb unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Indeed, and many beyond his control. He hasn't even driven
yet Barry on a track that he knows. That opportunity
would have come next weekend and will still come in
the racing balls car. Why wouldn't they have given him
a chance to at least race in Japan a track
that he knows.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I think also importantly Jason, that you know, yes, the
word demoted has been used, but we've got to remember
he's not been demoted to a back of the Grid team.
So you know, I say, you know, yes, it's difficult, Yes,
you know it would be nice to have been quite different.
But and again he has the opportun unity to go
into really what effectively is last year's Red Bull you know,
(05:10):
RB twenty. A lot of the parts that are on that,
you know RB twenty are now on the current Racing
Bulls car. So you know, in the end he's moved
to a very competitive team, proved by the qualifying results
in the first two rounds by Yuki and by you know,
Hazar Hedger. So in the end, you know, you've got
(05:33):
a great opportunity in a very competitive car to score
a lot of points this year. And I think let's
look at the positives on that side, and I think
probably with a little bit of thought. You know, I
know that Limb would have been very down about the decision,
but now I think he'll be on the up and
he'll be looking forward to going forward and being showing
why he deserves a top role in the future.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Oh, no doubt. And you've led me into the next
thing I was going to ask you about, and that
is whether Liam could actually drive better in the Racing
Balls team. I know he hasn't done you know, any
good in the in the Red Bull car only too races,
but could he be better inside an environment with lease
pressure and the chance to rebuild some confidence one and
(06:14):
you know, I.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Think, you know, it's it's well proven. The Racing Balls
car is highly competitive, certainly in qualifying and even in
the race. I think it's doing, you know, done very well.
The other part is that the Racing Balls team is
run by Lawrence Mecki. Now Mecky came. He's had a
very long career in junior formula with young drivers and
then before going to Racing Balls was the Ferrari if
(06:37):
one team is a sporting director. He worked with a
lot of young drivers at Junior Drivers in Ferrari to
work with some drivers, one of which was Brendan Hartley.
Brendan not well probably not well known, but Brendan drove
the Ferrari if one simulator for a season in his
time after you know, his various career changes, but as
(06:59):
part of his roles so you know, Lawrence will will
really help along with the engineers who are used to
working with young drivers, but they will really helped Liam
and get around them give him opportunity to show that
he actually, you know, a world class driver.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
The Red Bull card clearly set up for Max Vistappen
and clearly very difficult to drive. Will Yuki Sanoda be
able to drive it any better than Liam Lawson's been
able to?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Well, you know, Yuki's made a lot of comment, isn't he.
You know, he's ended his fifth season in Formula One,
and I think that's important to understand as well. You know,
Liam has done eleven twelve Grand Prix and Yuki's done
well and his five fifth season now, so you know,
Yuki has been thrown into the deep end, and now
(07:45):
he has to show that he is a world class
driver capable of being a teammate to Max Vstappen. Look,
he's had a lot more experience in various set up cars.
He will have probably a little bit more skill and
knowledge on how to get the best out of the
car that Max, you know, drives. And I know now
I believe that Red Bull looking to set up the
(08:08):
second car in a different way than they do Maxis,
which is a new thing for Red Bull. I've always
i think, really followed Maxis set up the whole way.
So I think we'll find in Japan, that Max will
have his car, which I know you know is being developed.
You know, in the week weeks since the last Grand Prix,
they will be furiously frantically developed trying to redevelop that
(08:32):
car because in the end it's probably the fourth best
car at the moment, and the second car with Yuki
in it will be probably running quite a different setup
and I think, you know, so it'll be very interesting
to see how that goes. And you know, time will
tell on that one. Jason.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Red Bull have never promoted a driver back into the
top team that they have previously demoted. Can you see
a scenario under which Liam Lawson drives for Red Bull again?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Look, the fact is, you know that Max will leave
Red Bull at some point. There's just you know, in
the end, Max has been ten years at red Bull,
you know, as with Lewis Hamilton, Max will look for
new opportunities and so at some stage Red Bull need
two quality drivers to be able to step into the
(09:23):
Nimbu team. So if Limb can show that he's a
world class drug, which we all in New Zealand believe
he is, by going to racing balls doing a really
good job this year and importantly beating his teammate, then
absolutely they will promote him back into that Red Bull
team at some stage. There's just no doubt in my mind.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Very interesting, Barry, thanks so much for learning us your expertise.
I've learned a lot. Thanks for taking the time for
the chat this afternoon.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
My nsure, Jason, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
All the best, mate, Barry Tomlins in there. It's Barry Tomlinson,
the founder of the Toyota Racing Series with some really
interesting thoughts. There a good insight as well. Keen to
hear your views now. As I said, your chance to react.
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty. I'm sure you've
read and listened to plenty of reaction to this. What
Red Ball have done to Liam Lawson, for me is
(10:12):
an absolute disgrace. He's been given an opportunity to be
the second driver in their team and has been given
almost zero support whatsoever and now demoted with Yuki Sonoda
given that seat. Now, you will not convince me, and
of course I stand to be corrected, but you will
not convince me Yuki Sonoda is a better driver than
(10:34):
Liam Lawson. Lawson was put in that seat for a
number of reasons, one of which is his mental resilience,
and he is going to need all of that hours.
He tries to bounce back from this in many ways.
As I said to Barry, the pressure comes off. Now
he goes into the Racing Balls team. Yuki Sonoda, though,
isn't going to be able to drive a car that's
(10:54):
set up for Maxvstappen any better than Liam Lawson can.
Interesting to hear Bowry say, then Red Ball are now
looking to set that car up differently. Well, that would
have been helpful for Liam, wouldn't it. Two races on
unfamiliar tracks, one of which was in the pouring rain
in Melbourne. It's far too small a sample size for
his driving to be accurately assessed. And we're about to
(11:17):
get to Japan, a track he actually knows, and I've
taken the keys off him. Look, he'll recuperate, he'll bounce back.
He is resilient and no doubt he'll drive well for
Racing Balls. But it paints Red Ball in an absolutely
appalling light. Yes, I know they are massive results drive
an organization, but they have been utterly negligent in their
(11:41):
duty of care to Liam Lawson. And this is where
we now are in an elite sporting landscape of instant gratification.
We have lost any ability, any ability at all to
be patient. Imagine if you opened a restaurant and after
a couple of nights you didn't get the tables as
full as you wanted, so you sacked the chef. Things
(12:04):
take time. You cannot Some say okay, well he's had
a couple of races, hasn't done the job. We're dropping in. Well,
they have done that, but it's not the right thing
to do. You might have listened to Mark Webber on
the radio with me last week. In the first seven
years of Mark Weber's Grand Prix career, he made the
podium twice. In the next five years he made the
(12:25):
podium forty times, forty four to zero. It takes time.
Red Ball have been shown here to have absolutely no
patience at all, and I know they're under pressure, but
we've lost the ability across a lot of elite sport
to just hover above things, take a breath and say, actually,
this is going to take a bit of time. Imagine
if we've got rid of Sir Graham Henry after the
(12:47):
two thousand and seven Rugby World Cup, we never would
have had twenty eleven, he never would have been Sir
Graham Henry. Same goes for Phoenix coach John Kloertaliana. Right
now they're calling for his head. A year ago he
was top of the pops, guiding the NIXT to their
best ever finish. It's endemic across elite sport, this drive
for instant results, and it's not helping anybody. In fact,
(13:09):
it's hurting players, drivers, coaches, everybody associated with elite sport
because those in charge simply cannot see pass the end
of next week.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk set B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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