The Horowhenua-Kāpiti Rugby Union has taken the unprecedented step of threatening to cancel senior club rugby matches in response to escalating abuse towards match officials.
Club referees are all volunteers, and CEO Corey Kennett says there’s been a slow and constant downward spiral in the treatment of officials.
He joined Piney to discuss what’s led to the club taking such drastic measures.
“Nobody wants this, so it’s a real combined approach to try and combat it.”
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
The hot off. New Carpety Rugby Union has taken the
unprecedented step of threatening to cancel senior club rugby matches
in response to escalating abuse towards their match officials. The
final straw came when an official last weekend was threatened
with being stabbed after he made a decision in a
(00:35):
club rugby game. After a meeting between the union and
its clubs and officials as well, it was decided any
further instances of serious referee abuse would lead to the
cancelation of an entire round of club rugby matches for
a weekend holif. New a Carpety Rugby Union chief executive
Corey Kennett is with us on Weekend Sport. Corey, thanks
(00:58):
for taking the time. This sounds bad. How bad has
the abuse of referees become at grass roots?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It's bad. It's a nationwide epidemic and it's bad. There's
no area, no provincial union in New Zealand that isn't affected,
and it's bad. What I do have to say is
it is across all sports and sadly it's a mirror
of the degradation and society of respect in particular for
(01:30):
authority figures, but also for volunteerism for community servants. So yeah,
it's bad out there, mate.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Do you think it's gotten worse?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Absolutely, as we've seen in the last I'm seventeen years
in as CEO, and it's definitely got worse in my time.
And what we're seeing is the more severe incidents. Sadly,
speaking with NZ, are you know you've got referees at
(02:02):
least one year being physically x assaulted to the point
where they need medical attention at least once a year.
Once again, we see this in other sports and the
news of you now and again, sadly, quite often in
a child's game, but more often than a men's game.
We have a teenage rugby game and givesmen the other
(02:23):
day spectator came on felt with their rights to get
involved in a fight. That whole lack of standing up
to the values that underpin our great game in community
sport in general, who's just been degraded, and so referee
abuses has been degraded as part of that.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
As I say, you've taken what is an unprecedented step
of saying look, if this carries on, we're going to
cancel Club Rugby. We're not going to play our games here,
which would be, as I'm sure you would agree, a
great shame for the vast majority of those who participate
in rugby, playing, refereeing, spectating in a in the right way.
Do you expect to have to follow through with this?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Well, the I'm inherently positive, Piney, so that so the
enduring hope is that it doesn't have to happen. Our
whole community, as you said, are behind the decision and
they all feel the same. But if we need to,
we will. We're prepared to pull the trigger. We have
people clubs that have all all signed up to this,
(03:29):
realizing that their club may do nothing wrong, but because
of the actions of someone else, they might miss out
on footy for the weekend. You know what, what what
we talked about Piney in our meeting is inertia is
not an option. We just can't watch this move by
and do nothing. We've got to do something and we've
got to stand up for these these hard working volunteers.
(03:50):
One of the one of the rests who's came along
to our meeting that we made the decision and I
know personally that he has had three cases of serious
abuse over five years, and he was one of the
ones that was affected last week. And do you know
what he did? Three days later Pony went and put
his boots on and refft again. So these these people
(04:14):
are just absolutely sold of the Earth's community servants, and
and they have they have suffered some pretty hoorendous stuff,
So we've got to back them.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Let's let's get our cards on the table here, Corey.
What sort of abuse are we talking about here? Look,
I don't expect you to include the swear words, which
no doubt are part of this, but but what is
the level of abuse that has been received by some
of your match officials to.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Doing a referee to to to get ft or your
e F and joking is now seen as relatively low level,
of course prosecuted to the full extent of the regulations
we can. What we're talking about is comments, and they've
got to say that we're seeing a huge increase in
severity from from spectators. So the players and the coaches
(05:08):
and the management have in general been the best group.
Spectators throwaway discussing comments like good luck getting home, I'm
going to follow you to the car park, that sort
of low level cowardly statements. But the referee I was
just talking about who not only volunteers as a refeel
(05:30):
volunteers and helping to run the referees Association. So he
was shouldered by a player running past, disgruntled with the decision.
The next one who was verbally abused and told that
he was going to get beaten up as well as
being shouldered, and then was hit with a piece of
(05:50):
field equipment in the foot. So there's a referee who
was going to go out and give up his time,
his time away from his far no possibly take time
off work, and he's had to suffer that sort of crap, right,
So that's the sort a level and what I would
say in those instances, I told you there would probably
(06:11):
only put us about mid table if we were to
do a table of the worst offenses.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
This is utterly appauling, Cory. This, I mean, I'm not
telling you anything you don't already know. This is just horrendous.
And the word that you've used a few times a
few times there volunteers, not that it matters, not that
you should you know, feel that you could abuse someone
like Ben O'Keeffe because he's a professional referee, but these
are volunteer officials copying the wrath of players and spectators.
(06:40):
How do we how do we stop this?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
So we just need to we we recognize it's one
of these situations where you may never ever get rid
of it completely. And we're saying this is a million
miles apart from from our Oh come on, reef, a right,
you're joking, reef, compared to what we're talking about. Right,
But what we need is all of community, multifesteded approach
(07:05):
where we everybody that has involved in that event can
say that's not good enough. You know, there's many things
that used to happen in society that used to be
seen as oh, well, that's not the end of the world.
They are not tolerated today, many many subjects. Right, we
just need to be able to all work together as
a community. And so identification. Calling out people don't put
(07:27):
yourself in a position of danger, but calling out these people,
identify them, go to the regulatory bodies, and then the
regulatory bodies they need to show some of the paverbials
and prosecute these peoples to the full extent that they
can big bands showing this is not part of what
holds up the pillars of our values and integrity that
(07:51):
hold up our sport.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
You've made a stand as a union. What about the
individual clubs Chorea? Are they responsible for the behavior of
those connected to their club or is that a bit
difficult when a guy might just be wandering by a
game of rugby, not necessarily a fan of that of
that club or one of the clubs playing just you know,
stands on the sideline with no real connection to the club,
(08:12):
if you know what I mean. Do the clubs themselves,
can they have any responsibility here?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Well, you've nowled in one pointed that there is a
black hole the randoms we call them the guys that
the people sorry, who just turn up to games no
real connection, definitely not club members. So for us, that's
a general police matter once again, if we get some
sort of identification. Rugby in particular is a very small,
(08:39):
interconnected game, so we'll be able to find out the
people if we can get some details at the starting point.
But the clubs are going to say, so, we've got
eight clubs. There's no one club that is worse than
the other. There's no one standout that is having more
horrendous abuse when they do find issues. Our clubs have
(08:59):
been fantastic. They self police, We've had we have social
media campaigns, they'll go through. They all have codes of
conduct and if you're a member of one of our
clubs then and you do something where you step out
of line, then you're in trouble. So the clubs are
doing what they can, but you're right the randoms the
general public that has left to us. And then for
(09:22):
more severe instances obviously a police matter.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Have you got New Zealand Rugby backing? Is there anything
the national body can do to help?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Said? Engine have been fantastic. We are great support in
guidance from them. They've been really really good. They're available
for us and have been brilliant and sharing initiatives and
Bryce Lawrence in particular and has Cared done a great
job in supporting our initiatives but also the initiatives of
(09:52):
other pus. They're forever helping and guiding us. So no
Engine I have done a great work in this space,
and so have the other pus, the other provincial unions
all ideas swapping in this of swapping what we can
do because there's nobody that wants us to continue, right,
or there is maybe one small area of society to
(10:16):
think it's okay to do. But besides that, nobody wants us.
So it's a real combined approach to try and combat it.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
You're not You're right. Nobody who is truly invested in
sports at a community level, at any level, wants to
wants this to be the case. Congratulations Corey on taking
some leadership in this space. Inertia is not an option.
I love that. Now understand. Actually, there's no no club
Rugby this weekend, is that right? The King's birthday? So
next weekend is your first chance to kind of I
(10:44):
guess test the water on this.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Well, you're right, no club Ragby this weekend. Our clubs
every season we get together. The clubs set the schedule
and the regulations, they set our participation agreement, which is
a're so proud of. So it's a real collaborative, consultative approach.
And so we have this weekend off. But we actually
had a game last Wednesday, Mate, which was in the
midst of this has already been released, and we didn't
(11:09):
have any issues at all, So I was very proud
of that. In fact, we've had feedback already that there
were some players on the field that we're making more
of an effort to adhere to the to the laws.
Once again referring to what I said before, players, coaches
and managers are lesser than an issue. But that was
(11:29):
great to see that it's already some impact. But yes,
you're right. A week today will be a first round
of club rugby and then we'll obviously be watching that
and hoping that we get through the rest of the
season without any further incidents.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, well done mate. Well again, congratulations on the stance
you've taken. Good to get the chance to chat. I
hope the next time we chat we're talking about the
next Carlor Spencer or Christian Cullen coming out of your union.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yeah, that would be great, Hate Ponty. Can I finish
on a positive note if I can, just to shout
out to Marlene Kennett, who turned eighty on Thursday. An
absolute fantastic lady, My mum, Love you mom, everyster love it.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Corey. Great to chat mate, enjoy your long weekend.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Cheers Piney, See you mate.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
See you mate. That is Corey Kennett, CEO of Hollofin
mccarpery Rugby Football Union.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to news talks at B Weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
The hot off. New Carpety Rugby Union has taken the
unprecedented step of threatening to cancel senior club rugby matches
in response to escalating abuse towards their match officials. The
final straw came when an official last weekend was threatened
with being stabbed after he made a decision in a
(00:35):
club rugby game. After a meeting between the union and
its clubs and officials as well, it was decided any
further instances of serious referee abuse would lead to the
cancelation of an entire round of club rugby matches for
a weekend holif. New a Carpety Rugby Union chief executive
Corey Kennett is with us on Weekend Sport. Corey, thanks
(00:58):
for taking the time. This sounds bad. How bad has
the abuse of referees become at grass roots?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It's bad. It's a nationwide epidemic and it's bad. There's
no area, no provincial union in New Zealand that isn't affected,
and it's bad. What I do have to say is
it is across all sports and sadly it's a mirror
of the degradation and society of respect in particular for
(01:30):
authority figures, but also for volunteerism for community servants. So yeah,
it's bad out there, mate.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Do you think it's gotten worse?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Absolutely, as we've seen in the last I'm seventeen years
in as CEO, and it's definitely got worse in my time.
And what we're seeing is the more severe incidents. Sadly,
speaking with NZ, are you know you've got referees at
(02:02):
least one year being physically x assaulted to the point
where they need medical attention at least once a year.
Once again, we see this in other sports and the
news of you now and again, sadly, quite often in
a child's game, but more often than a men's game.
We have a teenage rugby game and givesmen the other
(02:23):
day spectator came on felt with their rights to get
involved in a fight. That whole lack of standing up
to the values that underpin our great game in community
sport in general, who's just been degraded, and so referee
abuses has been degraded as part of that.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
As I say, you've taken what is an unprecedented step
of saying look, if this carries on, we're going to
cancel Club Rugby. We're not going to play our games here,
which would be, as I'm sure you would agree, a
great shame for the vast majority of those who participate
in rugby, playing, refereeing, spectating in a in the right way.
Do you expect to have to follow through with this?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Well, the I'm inherently positive, Piney, so that so the
enduring hope is that it doesn't have to happen. Our
whole community, as you said, are behind the decision and
they all feel the same. But if we need to,
we will. We're prepared to pull the trigger. We have
people clubs that have all all signed up to this,
(03:29):
realizing that their club may do nothing wrong, but because
of the actions of someone else, they might miss out
on footy for the weekend. You know what, what what
we talked about Piney in our meeting is inertia is
not an option. We just can't watch this move by
and do nothing. We've got to do something and we've
got to stand up for these these hard working volunteers.
(03:50):
One of the one of the rests who's came along
to our meeting that we made the decision and I
know personally that he has had three cases of serious
abuse over five years, and he was one of the
ones that was affected last week. And do you know
what he did? Three days later Pony went and put
his boots on and refft again. So these these people
(04:14):
are just absolutely sold of the Earth's community servants, and
and they have they have suffered some pretty hoorendous stuff,
So we've got to back them.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Let's let's get our cards on the table here, Corey.
What sort of abuse are we talking about here? Look,
I don't expect you to include the swear words, which
no doubt are part of this, but but what is
the level of abuse that has been received by some
of your match officials to.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Doing a referee to to to get ft or your
e F and joking is now seen as relatively low level,
of course prosecuted to the full extent of the regulations
we can. What we're talking about is comments, and they've
got to say that we're seeing a huge increase in
severity from from spectators. So the players and the coaches
(05:08):
and the management have in general been the best group.
Spectators throwaway discussing comments like good luck getting home, I'm
going to follow you to the car park, that sort
of low level cowardly statements. But the referee I was
just talking about who not only volunteers as a refeel
(05:30):
volunteers and helping to run the referees Association. So he
was shouldered by a player running past, disgruntled with the decision.
The next one who was verbally abused and told that
he was going to get beaten up as well as
being shouldered, and then was hit with a piece of
(05:50):
field equipment in the foot. So there's a referee who
was going to go out and give up his time,
his time away from his far no possibly take time
off work, and he's had to suffer that sort of crap, right,
So that's the sort a level and what I would
say in those instances, I told you there would probably
(06:11):
only put us about mid table if we were to
do a table of the worst offenses.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
This is utterly appauling, Cory. This, I mean, I'm not
telling you anything you don't already know. This is just horrendous.
And the word that you've used a few times a
few times there volunteers, not that it matters, not that
you should you know, feel that you could abuse someone
like Ben O'Keeffe because he's a professional referee, but these
are volunteer officials copying the wrath of players and spectators.
(06:40):
How do we how do we stop this?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
So we just need to we we recognize it's one
of these situations where you may never ever get rid
of it completely. And we're saying this is a million
miles apart from from our Oh come on, reef, a right,
you're joking, reef, compared to what we're talking about. Right,
But what we need is all of community, multifesteded approach
(07:05):
where we everybody that has involved in that event can
say that's not good enough. You know, there's many things
that used to happen in society that used to be
seen as oh, well, that's not the end of the world.
They are not tolerated today, many many subjects. Right, we
just need to be able to all work together as
a community. And so identification. Calling out people don't put
(07:27):
yourself in a position of danger, but calling out these people,
identify them, go to the regulatory bodies, and then the
regulatory bodies they need to show some of the paverbials
and prosecute these peoples to the full extent that they
can big bands showing this is not part of what
holds up the pillars of our values and integrity that
(07:51):
hold up our sport.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
You've made a stand as a union. What about the
individual clubs Chorea? Are they responsible for the behavior of
those connected to their club or is that a bit
difficult when a guy might just be wandering by a
game of rugby, not necessarily a fan of that of
that club or one of the clubs playing just you know,
stands on the sideline with no real connection to the club,
(08:12):
if you know what I mean. Do the clubs themselves,
can they have any responsibility here?
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Well, you've nowled in one pointed that there is a
black hole the randoms we call them the guys that
the people sorry, who just turn up to games no
real connection, definitely not club members. So for us, that's
a general police matter once again, if we get some
sort of identification. Rugby in particular is a very small,
(08:39):
interconnected game, so we'll be able to find out the
people if we can get some details at the starting point.
But the clubs are going to say, so, we've got
eight clubs. There's no one club that is worse than
the other. There's no one standout that is having more
horrendous abuse when they do find issues. Our clubs have
(08:59):
been fantastic. They self police, We've had we have social
media campaigns, they'll go through. They all have codes of
conduct and if you're a member of one of our
clubs then and you do something where you step out
of line, then you're in trouble. So the clubs are
doing what they can, but you're right the randoms the
general public that has left to us. And then for
(09:22):
more severe instances obviously a police matter.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Have you got New Zealand Rugby backing? Is there anything
the national body can do to help?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Said? Engine have been fantastic. We are great support in
guidance from them. They've been really really good. They're available
for us and have been brilliant and sharing initiatives and
Bryce Lawrence in particular and has Cared done a great
job in supporting our initiatives but also the initiatives of
(09:52):
other pus. They're forever helping and guiding us. So no
Engine I have done a great work in this space,
and so have the other pus, the other provincial unions
all ideas swapping in this of swapping what we can
do because there's nobody that wants us to continue, right,
or there is maybe one small area of society to
(10:16):
think it's okay to do. But besides that, nobody wants us.
So it's a real combined approach to try and combat it.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
You're not You're right. Nobody who is truly invested in
sports at a community level, at any level, wants to
wants this to be the case. Congratulations Corey on taking
some leadership in this space. Inertia is not an option.
I love that. Now understand. Actually, there's no no club
Rugby this weekend, is that right? The King's birthday? So
next weekend is your first chance to kind of I
(10:44):
guess test the water on this.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Well, you're right, no club Ragby this weekend. Our clubs
every season we get together. The clubs set the schedule
and the regulations, they set our participation agreement, which is
a're so proud of. So it's a real collaborative, consultative approach.
And so we have this weekend off. But we actually
had a game last Wednesday, Mate, which was in the
midst of this has already been released, and we didn't
(11:09):
have any issues at all, So I was very proud
of that. In fact, we've had feedback already that there
were some players on the field that we're making more
of an effort to adhere to the to the laws.
Once again referring to what I said before, players, coaches
and managers are lesser than an issue. But that was
(11:29):
great to see that it's already some impact. But yes,
you're right. A week today will be a first round
of club rugby and then we'll obviously be watching that
and hoping that we get through the rest of the
season without any further incidents.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, well done mate. Well again, congratulations on the stance
you've taken. Good to get the chance to chat. I
hope the next time we chat we're talking about the
next Carlor Spencer or Christian Cullen coming out of your union.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yeah, that would be great, Hate Ponty. Can I finish
on a positive note if I can, just to shout
out to Marlene Kennett, who turned eighty on Thursday. An
absolute fantastic lady, My mum, Love you mom, everyster love it.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Corey. Great to chat mate, enjoy your long weekend.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Cheers Piney, See you mate.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
See you mate. That is Corey Kennett, CEO of Hollofin
mccarpery Rugby Football Union.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to news talks at B Weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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