July 4, 2025 • 9 mins
A new All Blacks season kicks off tonight at Forsyth Barr Stadium.
The boys in black are taking on France's Les Blues in the first of three matches, aiming to break the tourist's winning streak.
All Black and Otago Rugby legend Jeff Wilson joined Jason Pine to discuss how the All Blacks will look to improve in Scott Robertson's second year at the helm.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalks edb SO.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
First All Blacks Test of the Year to needing tonight
from five past seven All Blacks v France. The last
time the two met, this happened.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Jordan has to take the tackle, he's hold up at
the tech. Let's quit the yet, need to get the
nis to ground. Well, cry, swallow them up, tetuply it
we are boat out for France. We are got out fright.
That is fort time and France do it again over
the a flats by one point.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Indeed, in fact, France have beaten the All Blacks the
last three times the two have met. You'd have to
be a fairly optimistic sort of a French supporter to
expect them to make that four tonight with a very green,
inexperienced team. But you never know, and you never know
when it comes to France. Let's bring in seventy one
Game sixty Test, forty four try All Black Otago and
(01:04):
Highlander's legiond and our Skysport commentation and analyst Jeff Wilson Goldie.
Thanks for joining us, mate. Let's talk some selection. First
of all, what do you make of Rico Yuwanni shift
back to starting on the wing for the first time
in a Test match since twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
One, oh appure And simply I think it comes down
to wanting to give Billy Proctor an opportunity in the
All Black jersey to see if he can transform some
of that transfer some of that great form from last
year and this year's Super Rugby campaign when he came
back from injury, whether that transfers into the All Black jersey.
And I think even if you look at the form
of some of our wingers in Cale Park, wasn't overly strong,
(01:40):
You'd have to say for the Blues in Super Rugby,
Ricco Juanni's experience on the wing is incredibly valuable. So
I think give us some versatility and Ricarster covering center.
They don't need to carry someone necessarily on the benchmin
to pire more special a second five. I think an
all round selection to me, that helps the team move
(02:01):
forward in terms of knowing more about Billy Proctor.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
How different a centa do you perceive Billy Proctor to
be compared to Rico Youani, Ah.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Look, there's a real there's a different skill set there,
you know, Rico's certainly a different size. He carries and
runs a lot more direct lines Billy Procter. You see him.
He's very very good on his feet. He likes to
stay alive with the ball. He doesn't mind trying to
offload and look for players around him, whereas Rico has
been a lot more of a player who's quite often
(02:30):
sort of tried to punch through holes, where Proctor as
a player who tries to play and run into space
and particularly doesn't mind trying to take an outside break,
which I really really like because with Jordy Barrett and
at twelve, we've got someone who can take the direct lines.
I think Proctor as well is defensively a little bit
different because he doesn't rely on his speed that Rico,
youani does. He's got great acceleration, whereas Proctor, he's a
(02:55):
player that makes good reads, good decisions, get the angles
really really smartly executed. So for me, that's where Proctor's advantages.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I think the biggest surprise for most people was two
poor you starting on the blind side flank. Why do
you think they've gone that way?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:11):
I think you know, size against the big teams, against
the spring box, against France against Ireland England, those teams
the top sides in the world. Clearly, it's an area
you want to make sure you can match size to size,
and what you do get with the athleticism of Tuba
Bay is exactly that the ability for him to play
on the side of the scrum, and that's only one
(03:32):
small aspect of the game. There are less scrums as
we've seen in the game now, so I think from
that perspective, you know, the number on the back's probably
less important than the fact of making sure you've got
three really strong line out options. And he's certainly quick
enough on the ground, but also as an athlete, he's
certainly quite a bit bigger than our six is that
(03:53):
we've had floating around over the last few years. He's
probably more in the mold of a Shannon Brazil that
sort of size. Probably not as powerful in terms of
the tackles that Brazil was, but in terms of an
all round game, Tupo has been outstanding. So I'm interested
to see how this plays out. What I love about
it it gives an opportunity for Fabian Holland to straight
(04:15):
away just carry on from what he did in Super
Raggy which was used as big engine, rather than having
it come off the bench as an impact player, have
it as a guy who's getting to start and can
play some deep minutes.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
What sort of messaging do you think the All Blacks
coaches gave to Summer Penny female, who I think we
all thought would be in the six jumper.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Yeah, look, I think he was closed up this year.
I think you know, they had such a competitive group
in the loose forwards for the Chiefs where he started
at the back end to show some signs, but with
the same token. You know, he was guilty in a
quarterfinal of giving away a number of penalties. So for him,
it's about accuracies and making sure that he's being impactful
in the game, a consistency consistently across the time he's
(04:58):
on the park. I like this because he's not having
to worry about maybe sixty seventy minutes he'll probably, provided
there's no injuries, he'll get twenty minute window maybe to
go out there and just literally go for it. Just
put back to back efforts in not just every so often,
just back to back efforts in terms of whether it's
carrying or tackling. So I think this is this is
(05:18):
a this is a nice option for me. This is
us looking at something different, and for me, that's probably
the most important thing, is that if if we rolled
out with a similar feel and lookers last year, it
was almost like we're not prepared to go in a
different direction. This team looks as though we're going in
a slightly different direction.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
On that then, Jeff, do you think there would have
been a temptation to give to multi Tabatavana why a
tea stable off the bench on his home ground?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Yeah, I think there would have been that, But in
saying that, I think experience still does count for a lot,
and you can't argue with quinter Pire's form, and I
think they'd like the light for like in terms of
the twelve Jersey, and I think Tabatavanai, as powerful as
he is, he's certainly probably not as direct a runner
as he's certainly different and I would like to think
(06:02):
he's going to get his opportunity. So yeah, it would
have been great, right, It would have been great story,
you know, for all Free Islanders to have played together
in this first test. But they've gone in a slightly
different direction and I think it's understandable from my perspective.
The other side of it, too, is is that Jordi
Barrett has that ability to play at fullback, and whether
or not he's actually the backup fullback will be very interesting,
(06:22):
you know, whether or not they see it as Damie
mckensey and they want to focus in on as a ten.
I'm interested in how all it might play out during
the course of this, not just this Test match, but
this series.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
We know that all blacks are never perfect in the
first test of a year, So what will you need
to see tonight? What will most New Zealand rugby fans
need to see tonight to be satisfied with the first
outing of the year.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
It's really interesting because we've often said that because we've
had a few performances, but quite often we've come up
against really good teams who have come here with a purpose.
Was this French team's purpose, it's been giving young guys
an opportunity. Have chosen to not select some vasty experienced
players for a variety of reasons. So with that in mind,
and given when I look at our side on paper
(07:05):
and with the amount of experience it has in this group,
if there's a couple of new players in there and
Christian Leo Willie it's a big, big opportunity for him, yes,
to go by his moving, but I think this group
understands the responsibility it has to get off to a
really strong start season because the quicker they get momentum
going in through the year, the better served we will
be as we start going towards the Rugby Championship. And
(07:28):
let's be honest, that challenge that is said Africa, that's
on the horizon is something we have to be ready for.
So I think tonight I think this is a really
important statement making opportunity, the fact that given everything that
we've got and what were up against in terms of
a real lack of experience, even though it's France, my
expectations should be that we have a actually have a
(07:49):
really good and convincing.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
One and if we just zoom out a bit to
finish Goldie. What do you think the big goals will
be for Scott Robertson in year two of his coaching
tenure and in year two of this World Cup cycle?
Speaker 4 (08:02):
To me, it would be to start to control the
big moments games because we had a number of test
matches which went both ways last year where we managed
to find ways to win. But then the games that
went against us, there were some big moments in the
last twenty minutes we just didn't own. You know. To me,
it's you know, your sea sides. That's when you know
(08:23):
great sides are starting to evolve, that they're getting better
every week, and when they're faced with the challenge in
the most difficult parts of the game, they find our solution.
And so that ability to adapt, that ability to recognize
what it is that whether it be the referee, the
nature of the game, whatever, it might take. Having that
adaptability to find the big moments which will win. And
(08:44):
a lot of that comes down to dealing with the
opposition in front of us. So got to learn fast,
and I think that's one of the reasons I think
they've gone with the balance had both barre it for
this fight, where with all of his vast experience, a
lot of that rests with him around Okay, how do
we manage our way through this game when it is
on the line. That's what I'm looking for. I'm sure
that's exactly what they're focusing on as well. Week on
(09:05):
week being.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Better, fascinating, year ahead, intriguing start to it tonight. Enjoy
being back in Dunedin.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
You must, oh absolutely. I mean every city's got a
unique barber around.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
You know.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
It's a Test weekend, you know, and the first one
of the year. I think it's a perfect place to start.
It's nice to have a roof over it. We know
it hasn't been great week in terms of weather, so
at least we're guaranteed to be on a great surface
so that both teams and France as well can go
out and they can play the quality rugby they want
to do it this level.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Top man, Goldie, always good to chat. Thanks for taking
the time.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Mate, No problems it all enjoy.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
You enjoy two Goldie. Jeff Wilson joining us there on
the day of the first Test match of the year
in the city that he made his name for the
Otago side, for the Highlanders and for the All Blacks.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talks d B weekends from midday or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalks edb SO.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
First All Blacks Test of the Year to needing tonight
from five past seven All Blacks v France. The last
time the two met, this happened.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Jordan has to take the tackle, he's hold up at
the tech. Let's quit the yet, need to get the
nis to ground. Well, cry, swallow them up, tetuply it
we are boat out for France. We are got out fright.
That is fort time and France do it again over
the a flats by one point.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Indeed, in fact, France have beaten the All Blacks the
last three times the two have met. You'd have to
be a fairly optimistic sort of a French supporter to
expect them to make that four tonight with a very green,
inexperienced team. But you never know, and you never know
when it comes to France. Let's bring in seventy one
Game sixty Test, forty four try All Black Otago and
(01:04):
Highlander's legiond and our Skysport commentation and analyst Jeff Wilson Goldie.
Thanks for joining us, mate. Let's talk some selection. First
of all, what do you make of Rico Yuwanni shift
back to starting on the wing for the first time
in a Test match since twenty twenty.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
One, oh appure And simply I think it comes down
to wanting to give Billy Proctor an opportunity in the
All Black jersey to see if he can transform some
of that transfer some of that great form from last
year and this year's Super Rugby campaign when he came
back from injury, whether that transfers into the All Black jersey.
And I think even if you look at the form
of some of our wingers in Cale Park, wasn't overly strong,
(01:40):
You'd have to say for the Blues in Super Rugby,
Ricco Juanni's experience on the wing is incredibly valuable. So
I think give us some versatility and Ricarster covering center.
They don't need to carry someone necessarily on the benchmin
to pire more special a second five. I think an
all round selection to me, that helps the team move
(02:01):
forward in terms of knowing more about Billy Proctor.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
How different a centa do you perceive Billy Proctor to
be compared to Rico Youani, Ah.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Look, there's a real there's a different skill set there,
you know, Rico's certainly a different size. He carries and
runs a lot more direct lines Billy Procter. You see him.
He's very very good on his feet. He likes to
stay alive with the ball. He doesn't mind trying to
offload and look for players around him, whereas Rico has
been a lot more of a player who's quite often
(02:30):
sort of tried to punch through holes, where Proctor as
a player who tries to play and run into space
and particularly doesn't mind trying to take an outside break,
which I really really like because with Jordy Barrett and
at twelve, we've got someone who can take the direct lines.
I think Proctor as well is defensively a little bit
different because he doesn't rely on his speed that Rico,
youani does. He's got great acceleration, whereas Proctor, he's a
(02:55):
player that makes good reads, good decisions, get the angles
really really smartly executed. So for me, that's where Proctor's advantages.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I think the biggest surprise for most people was two
poor you starting on the blind side flank. Why do
you think they've gone that way?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:11):
I think you know, size against the big teams, against
the spring box, against France against Ireland England, those teams
the top sides in the world. Clearly, it's an area
you want to make sure you can match size to size,
and what you do get with the athleticism of Tuba
Bay is exactly that the ability for him to play
on the side of the scrum, and that's only one
(03:32):
small aspect of the game. There are less scrums as
we've seen in the game now, so I think from
that perspective, you know, the number on the back's probably
less important than the fact of making sure you've got
three really strong line out options. And he's certainly quick
enough on the ground, but also as an athlete, he's
certainly quite a bit bigger than our six is that
(03:53):
we've had floating around over the last few years. He's
probably more in the mold of a Shannon Brazil that
sort of size. Probably not as powerful in terms of
the tackles that Brazil was, but in terms of an
all round game, Tupo has been outstanding. So I'm interested
to see how this plays out. What I love about
it it gives an opportunity for Fabian Holland to straight
(04:15):
away just carry on from what he did in Super
Raggy which was used as big engine, rather than having
it come off the bench as an impact player, have
it as a guy who's getting to start and can
play some deep minutes.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
What sort of messaging do you think the All Blacks
coaches gave to Summer Penny female, who I think we
all thought would be in the six jumper.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Yeah, look, I think he was closed up this year.
I think you know, they had such a competitive group
in the loose forwards for the Chiefs where he started
at the back end to show some signs, but with
the same token. You know, he was guilty in a
quarterfinal of giving away a number of penalties. So for him,
it's about accuracies and making sure that he's being impactful
in the game, a consistency consistently across the time he's
(04:58):
on the park. I like this because he's not having
to worry about maybe sixty seventy minutes he'll probably, provided
there's no injuries, he'll get twenty minute window maybe to
go out there and just literally go for it. Just
put back to back efforts in not just every so often,
just back to back efforts in terms of whether it's
carrying or tackling. So I think this is this is
(05:18):
a this is a nice option for me. This is
us looking at something different, and for me, that's probably
the most important thing, is that if if we rolled
out with a similar feel and lookers last year, it
was almost like we're not prepared to go in a
different direction. This team looks as though we're going in
a slightly different direction.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
On that then, Jeff, do you think there would have
been a temptation to give to multi Tabatavana why a
tea stable off the bench on his home ground?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Yeah, I think there would have been that, But in
saying that, I think experience still does count for a lot,
and you can't argue with quinter Pire's form, and I
think they'd like the light for like in terms of
the twelve Jersey, and I think Tabatavanai, as powerful as
he is, he's certainly probably not as direct a runner
as he's certainly different and I would like to think
(06:02):
he's going to get his opportunity. So yeah, it would
have been great, right, It would have been great story,
you know, for all Free Islanders to have played together
in this first test. But they've gone in a slightly
different direction and I think it's understandable from my perspective.
The other side of it, too, is is that Jordi
Barrett has that ability to play at fullback, and whether
or not he's actually the backup fullback will be very interesting,
(06:22):
you know, whether or not they see it as Damie
mckensey and they want to focus in on as a ten.
I'm interested in how all it might play out during
the course of this, not just this Test match, but
this series.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
We know that all blacks are never perfect in the
first test of a year, So what will you need
to see tonight? What will most New Zealand rugby fans
need to see tonight to be satisfied with the first
outing of the year.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
It's really interesting because we've often said that because we've
had a few performances, but quite often we've come up
against really good teams who have come here with a purpose.
Was this French team's purpose, it's been giving young guys
an opportunity. Have chosen to not select some vasty experienced
players for a variety of reasons. So with that in mind,
and given when I look at our side on paper
(07:05):
and with the amount of experience it has in this group,
if there's a couple of new players in there and
Christian Leo Willie it's a big, big opportunity for him, yes,
to go by his moving, but I think this group
understands the responsibility it has to get off to a
really strong start season because the quicker they get momentum
going in through the year, the better served we will
be as we start going towards the Rugby Championship. And
(07:28):
let's be honest, that challenge that is said Africa, that's
on the horizon is something we have to be ready for.
So I think tonight I think this is a really
important statement making opportunity, the fact that given everything that
we've got and what were up against in terms of
a real lack of experience, even though it's France, my
expectations should be that we have a actually have a
(07:49):
really good and convincing.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
One and if we just zoom out a bit to
finish Goldie. What do you think the big goals will
be for Scott Robertson in year two of his coaching
tenure and in year two of this World Cup cycle?
Speaker 4 (08:02):
To me, it would be to start to control the
big moments games because we had a number of test
matches which went both ways last year where we managed
to find ways to win. But then the games that
went against us, there were some big moments in the
last twenty minutes we just didn't own. You know. To me,
it's you know, your sea sides. That's when you know
(08:23):
great sides are starting to evolve, that they're getting better
every week, and when they're faced with the challenge in
the most difficult parts of the game, they find our solution.
And so that ability to adapt, that ability to recognize
what it is that whether it be the referee, the
nature of the game, whatever, it might take. Having that
adaptability to find the big moments which will win. And
(08:44):
a lot of that comes down to dealing with the
opposition in front of us. So got to learn fast,
and I think that's one of the reasons I think
they've gone with the balance had both barre it for
this fight, where with all of his vast experience, a
lot of that rests with him around Okay, how do
we manage our way through this game when it is
on the line. That's what I'm looking for. I'm sure
that's exactly what they're focusing on as well. Week on
(09:05):
week being.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Better, fascinating, year ahead, intriguing start to it tonight. Enjoy
being back in Dunedin.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
You must, oh absolutely. I mean every city's got a
unique barber around.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
You know.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
It's a Test weekend, you know, and the first one
of the year. I think it's a perfect place to start.
It's nice to have a roof over it. We know
it hasn't been great week in terms of weather, so
at least we're guaranteed to be on a great surface
so that both teams and France as well can go
out and they can play the quality rugby they want
to do it this level.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Top man, Goldie, always good to chat. Thanks for taking
the time.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Mate, No problems it all enjoy.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
You enjoy two Goldie. Jeff Wilson joining us there on
the day of the first Test match of the year
in the city that he made his name for the
Otago side, for the Highlanders and for the All Blacks.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talks d B weekends from midday or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.