Christian Horner has been sacked as Red Bull team principal.
The 51-year-old had been in the role since 2005, overseeing eight drivers' world championships and six constructors' titles.
Founder of the Toyota racing series Barrie Thomlinson joined Piney to discuss what happened behind the scenes at Red Bull that led to his sudden exit.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Christian Horner has been dismissed as Red Bull team principal
in Formula One. The fifty one year old's been in
the role since two thousand and five, overseeing eight drivers
world championships and six constructors' titles, but they have struggled
this season. Full time defending world champion Max for Stappan
has won just two of twelve races and the syndicate
(00:35):
sits fourth on the team's ladder. Laurent Mickeys has been
appointed chief executive in his place. Let's get some insight
into what is behind this, what it might mean moving forward,
in particular for Liam Lawson, of course, who is part
of the Red Bull stable, founder of the Toyota Racing
series which many of our top drivers raced in, including
(00:56):
Lillam Lawson and Astute Motorsport analyst Barry Tomlinson is with
us on Weekend Sport. Barry, Thanks for taking the time.
Did this come as a surprise when you heard this news?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yeah, I think it's surprised everybody. Finey, you know, came
out of the blue, I guess, but you know, it's
been bubbling away for quite some while from you know
what what what the most of the pundits are saying,
and you know, I think it goes way back to
probably a couple of years ago, when Adrian knew he
left the team under circumstances that probably weren't so pleasant.
(01:31):
I mean, Adrian was, you know, is probably the best,
if one designer of the world we've ever seen. And
you know, he walked out the door and was followed
by Rob Marshall, who you know, became chief designer at
McLaren if one and we see the success of that
car and that team. Now Jonathan Wheatley has gone to Audi.
He was a TM you know at Red Ball, and
(01:56):
a lot of other senior stuff that probably aren't so
public but have also left. And you know, I think
the team, you know, has has probably you know, struggled
to rebuild from Christian downplayed Adrian's sort of departure from
the team, you know, which was probably a mistake for
you know, in the end. You know, I think Adrian,
(02:17):
you know, people knew that Adrian was was was you know,
a very very valuable member of the team, and when
he walked, you know, it was Yeah, probably not a
good scene.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So was this a case of some big personality, some
big egos? Dare I say in Formula one just clashing?
What actually happened between Christian Horner and the likes of
Adrian Newey and the others who left the who left
the team?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Well, well, you know, I'm not I don't have any
personal insight into it, but you know, I believe that
you know, Adrian, you know, there was a bit of
a cloud around us, you know, allegation by an employer,
a female employee against Christian, and I think probably that
was you know, the male and the coffin for for Adrian,
(03:01):
he didn't, you know, for whatever reason, none of us know,
you know, he decided leave the team. And but look,
you know, Formula ones full of huge personalities, you know,
the team, the guys that run the teams, you know,
the designers, the Herodonamesis, the drivers, full of egos and
you know, I believe Christian has done an amazing job
(03:22):
for twenty years to mold all of those egos into
a team that has you know, been one of the
most successful form lines I've ever seen. And you know,
so he did a fantastic job for a long time,
but you know, I guess, you know, you go to
the top and eventually there's only a couple of ways down,
and Christians found the hard way down and being relieved
at as duties.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I guess in any sport though, barrye twenty years in
charge of any sporting team, any sporting franchise, any sporting organization,
that's a that's a heck of a long time, a
lot changes in two decades, had had his time there,
just run its course.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, I think, you know, in the end, that's what's happened.
I mean, the loss of Deetrich Matchets, you know, who
obviously was under a Red Bull and you know, funded
the Red Bull Racing team along with everything else they did,
you know, his loss, you know, that seemed to sort
of tie into you know the down down for really
you know, with you know, he had gone, and then
(04:20):
you know the helmet Marco and Christian kind of took
over the team running it, you know, and then I
don't know, the duties might have been a little bit
you know, you know clashing, you know there. We really
don't know. But then of course you've got the factor
of Maxis staff and you know, probably one of the
greatest e f F one drivers of the world's ever seen,
you know, not the greatest, certainly modern day. And you know,
(04:44):
his team, his father and his management behind the scenes.
You know, there's been a lot going on there and
for whatever reason, you know, the father of jos Josseph Steffen,
Max's father has been pretty vocal, you know, against Christian
as well. So Mark, the son of Dietrich, has taken
(05:04):
over the operation. And I guess you know, it's also
probably not well known, but Red Bull is also fifty
month percent owned by a tie gentleman and apparently certainly
the thie Chap was a supporter of question for all
these years, but maybe lost, you know, Christian loss his
support in the end, and then it was always one
(05:26):
way down.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So there's always talk that or there has been talk
about Max the staff and leaving Red Bull. With the
change of ownership, is he more likely to stay, Well, you.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Know, that's a big question and everybody's trying to answer
that one. At the moment, only Max and his management
and I guess the people inside Red Bull know what's
going on in terms of whether he's going to remain
with the team. But you know, for sure. Mercedes have
been courting him, and they've been courting him for a while.
They have the might and power and the money to
be able to take the staff in into the longer
(06:03):
term contract that probably he's looking for next year, new rules,
new engine, new car. You know, there's a lot of
debate as to whether, you know, who's going to have
the best car package, car and engine package, and I
think the Fetis seemed to have favor there and of
course red Will also you know they lost Honda for
(06:23):
their engine supply and shows, which was a Christian kind
of decision. I believe that. You know, they'd set up
their own engine shops, so they're building their own engine
in conjunction with Ford Motor Company, and you know there's
probably some debate about whether that is going to be
a competitive unit straight off the bat too.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
How important is the constructor's title because we always hear
a lot about, you know, who the world drivers champion
is and we know expus happens one the last four
How important two teams Barry is the constructor's.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Title for a team it's the most important thing, almost
the drivers' championship the second and you know they get
paid on team results on points and you know, it's
worth a lot of money. And and of course not
only do the teams get the you know, the prize
money if you like, but then that filters down through
(07:17):
their employees and the people at Red Bull, all of
the staff over a thousand people, they'd all have a
bonus every year are based on what they would you know,
the points that they would score, and so team Team
championship is everything in terms of their funding. And of
course then drivers is obviously something that they all love
to have too, and but it's you know, the driver.
(07:39):
It's a very individual thing too, you know, through selfish
part of the whole sport.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, indeed, Liam Lawson, we know he's in the Red
Bull stable racing balls. Will this have any impact on him, Barry.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Look, I'm sure it's you know, it had an impact
on Liam Wright. You know, obviously we all know at
the start of this year when he when he was
placed in the Red Bull car alongside Maxim and given
two races to perform and actually, you know, that was
just quite ridiculous in the end to think that, you know,
he only had that amount of time. And I think
(08:13):
that's also part of the whole scenario that's gone on
with the downfall of Christian because you know, in the end,
Christian would have been involved in making decisions around who
they were going to put in the second car. Obviously
chose to put Liam in the car, along with others
that would make that decision. And you know, so it's
had an impact on Liam and now he's had to
reinvent his career back at Racing Balls and we can
(08:34):
see that he's, you know, he really is starting to
find his confidence. Had a good result in Austria, it's
core result in Silverstone, you know, not his own making.
I guess, you know, the first lap accident. So Liam
now really has to just get his head down, keep
his head down and get results. In the end. It's
a results, results based championship. And you know, so he
(08:58):
really just has to concentrate on his role as a
racing driver at Racing Balls.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Just back to Max for step and you'll be able
to fill in the gap for a here, Barry, but
it seems to me as though he's driving a difficult car,
a very difficult car, because he is, as you said,
a Formula one genius, one of the best we've ever seen.
Can can anybody feel that number two seat effectively?
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Look at again a great debate and you know they
obviously Carez was there for a number of years, you know,
started to struggle in the car alongside Max, and you
know there was debait about whether it was you know,
Krez losing his confidence as you know, as a driver
and getting a little older and a little bit maybe
(09:43):
bored or whatever it was. But you know, can someone
compete against Max? Well it's a big call. And you
know the car has obviously been developed for him, it's
gone down a path for his driving style and that
doesn't suit a lot of guys. You know, it's pretty
evident that you know a lot of people have to
try and adapt. And and now you see Sonoda just
(10:04):
struggling like anything to you know, to even understand, and
I mean so not a quality racing driver thing around him,
former one for four plus years, but he's struggling really
badly with that car. And yeah, look big question marks
finely on all of that. And you know, but that's
you know, were all Mexico. That's the question what will
he do? And time to tell.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Just to finish then, is there any set of circumstances
under which we might see Liam back in the Red
Bull car if Max stays or if Max goes, could
could or would Liam want to drive the Red Bull again?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Absolutely, And the way he will get back to Red
Bull it will be to a most importantly beat his teammate.
And he's got a very very strong teammate and Hadjar,
and I think we'll see that Hadjar. I mean, he's
I think the top shelf, a very very accomplished driver
doing an amazing job, and Liam's got a big job
(10:59):
to kind of beat him. He will need to consistently
show that he is faster, more consistent than Isaac. And
you know, if he can do that right through to
the end of the season, then he's definitely in with
a chance of getting back to Red Bull. And you
know again Carmifel. But the main thing for Liam how
(11:20):
he really wants to secure a seat and racing balls
next year. Concentrate on that and then what will be
from there will be and I think that needs to
be his goal.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Very great to get your insight and your expertise, I've learned, Heapes.
Thanks much for joining us this afternoon. I really appreciate your.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Time, my pleasure, mate, and go the all Black People go.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
The Avs indeed, Barry good Man, Barry Tomlins in there,
founder of the Toyota Racing Series. As you can hear,
they're a very astute motorsport analyst. Great to get his
views on what's going to happen at Red Bull with
Christian Horner departing. The next Formula One weekend actually is
in Belgium July twenty five through twenty seven, so a
(12:00):
couple of weeks away before we have Formula One to
look forward to again.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
For more Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live to
News Talk Set B weekends from midday, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Christian Horner has been dismissed as Red Bull team principal
in Formula One. The fifty one year old's been in
the role since two thousand and five, overseeing eight drivers
world championships and six constructors' titles, but they have struggled
this season. Full time defending world champion Max for Stappan
has won just two of twelve races and the syndicate
(00:35):
sits fourth on the team's ladder. Laurent Mickeys has been
appointed chief executive in his place. Let's get some insight
into what is behind this, what it might mean moving forward,
in particular for Liam Lawson, of course, who is part
of the Red Bull stable, founder of the Toyota Racing
series which many of our top drivers raced in, including
(00:56):
Lillam Lawson and Astute Motorsport analyst Barry Tomlinson is with
us on Weekend Sport. Barry, Thanks for taking the time.
Did this come as a surprise when you heard this news?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yeah, I think it's surprised everybody. Finey, you know, came
out of the blue, I guess, but you know, it's
been bubbling away for quite some while from you know
what what what the most of the pundits are saying,
and you know, I think it goes way back to
probably a couple of years ago, when Adrian knew he
left the team under circumstances that probably weren't so pleasant.
(01:31):
I mean, Adrian was, you know, is probably the best,
if one designer of the world we've ever seen. And
you know, he walked out the door and was followed
by Rob Marshall, who you know, became chief designer at
McLaren if one and we see the success of that
car and that team. Now Jonathan Wheatley has gone to Audi.
He was a TM you know at Red Ball, and
(01:56):
a lot of other senior stuff that probably aren't so
public but have also left. And you know, I think
the team, you know, has has probably you know, struggled
to rebuild from Christian downplayed Adrian's sort of departure from
the team, you know, which was probably a mistake for
you know, in the end. You know, I think Adrian,
(02:17):
you know, people knew that Adrian was was was you know,
a very very valuable member of the team, and when
he walked, you know, it was Yeah, probably not a
good scene.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So was this a case of some big personality, some
big egos? Dare I say in Formula one just clashing?
What actually happened between Christian Horner and the likes of
Adrian Newey and the others who left the who left
the team?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Well, well, you know, I'm not I don't have any
personal insight into it, but you know, I believe that
you know, Adrian, you know, there was a bit of
a cloud around us, you know, allegation by an employer,
a female employee against Christian, and I think probably that
was you know, the male and the coffin for for Adrian,
(03:01):
he didn't, you know, for whatever reason, none of us know,
you know, he decided leave the team. And but look,
you know, Formula ones full of huge personalities, you know,
the team, the guys that run the teams, you know,
the designers, the Herodonamesis, the drivers, full of egos and
you know, I believe Christian has done an amazing job
(03:22):
for twenty years to mold all of those egos into
a team that has you know, been one of the
most successful form lines I've ever seen. And you know,
so he did a fantastic job for a long time,
but you know, I guess, you know, you go to
the top and eventually there's only a couple of ways down,
and Christians found the hard way down and being relieved
at as duties.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I guess in any sport though, barrye twenty years in
charge of any sporting team, any sporting franchise, any sporting organization,
that's a that's a heck of a long time, a
lot changes in two decades, had had his time there,
just run its course.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, I think, you know, in the end, that's what's happened.
I mean, the loss of Deetrich Matchets, you know, who
obviously was under a Red Bull and you know, funded
the Red Bull Racing team along with everything else they did,
you know, his loss, you know, that seemed to sort
of tie into you know the down down for really
you know, with you know, he had gone, and then
(04:20):
you know the helmet Marco and Christian kind of took
over the team running it, you know, and then I
don't know, the duties might have been a little bit
you know, you know clashing, you know there. We really
don't know. But then of course you've got the factor
of Maxis staff and you know, probably one of the
greatest e f F one drivers of the world's ever seen,
you know, not the greatest, certainly modern day. And you know,
(04:44):
his team, his father and his management behind the scenes.
You know, there's been a lot going on there and
for whatever reason, you know, the father of jos Josseph Steffen,
Max's father has been pretty vocal, you know, against Christian
as well. So Mark, the son of Dietrich, has taken
(05:04):
over the operation. And I guess you know, it's also
probably not well known, but Red Bull is also fifty
month percent owned by a tie gentleman and apparently certainly
the thie Chap was a supporter of question for all
these years, but maybe lost, you know, Christian loss his
support in the end, and then it was always one
(05:26):
way down.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So there's always talk that or there has been talk
about Max the staff and leaving Red Bull. With the
change of ownership, is he more likely to stay, Well, you.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Know, that's a big question and everybody's trying to answer
that one. At the moment, only Max and his management
and I guess the people inside Red Bull know what's
going on in terms of whether he's going to remain
with the team. But you know, for sure. Mercedes have
been courting him, and they've been courting him for a while.
They have the might and power and the money to
be able to take the staff in into the longer
(06:03):
term contract that probably he's looking for next year, new rules,
new engine, new car. You know, there's a lot of
debate as to whether, you know, who's going to have
the best car package, car and engine package, and I
think the Fetis seemed to have favor there and of
course red Will also you know they lost Honda for
(06:23):
their engine supply and shows, which was a Christian kind
of decision. I believe that. You know, they'd set up
their own engine shops, so they're building their own engine
in conjunction with Ford Motor Company, and you know there's
probably some debate about whether that is going to be
a competitive unit straight off the bat too.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
How important is the constructor's title because we always hear
a lot about, you know, who the world drivers champion
is and we know expus happens one the last four
How important two teams Barry is the constructor's.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Title for a team it's the most important thing, almost
the drivers' championship the second and you know they get
paid on team results on points and you know, it's
worth a lot of money. And and of course not
only do the teams get the you know, the prize
money if you like, but then that filters down through
(07:17):
their employees and the people at Red Bull, all of
the staff over a thousand people, they'd all have a
bonus every year are based on what they would you know,
the points that they would score, and so team Team
championship is everything in terms of their funding. And of
course then drivers is obviously something that they all love
to have too, and but it's you know, the driver.
(07:39):
It's a very individual thing too, you know, through selfish
part of the whole sport.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, indeed, Liam Lawson, we know he's in the Red
Bull stable racing balls. Will this have any impact on him, Barry.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Look, I'm sure it's you know, it had an impact
on Liam Wright. You know, obviously we all know at
the start of this year when he when he was
placed in the Red Bull car alongside Maxim and given
two races to perform and actually, you know, that was
just quite ridiculous in the end to think that, you know,
he only had that amount of time. And I think
(08:13):
that's also part of the whole scenario that's gone on
with the downfall of Christian because you know, in the end,
Christian would have been involved in making decisions around who
they were going to put in the second car. Obviously
chose to put Liam in the car, along with others
that would make that decision. And you know, so it's
had an impact on Liam and now he's had to
reinvent his career back at Racing Balls and we can
(08:34):
see that he's, you know, he really is starting to
find his confidence. Had a good result in Austria, it's
core result in Silverstone, you know, not his own making.
I guess, you know, the first lap accident. So Liam
now really has to just get his head down, keep
his head down and get results. In the end. It's
a results, results based championship. And you know, so he
(08:58):
really just has to concentrate on his role as a
racing driver at Racing Balls.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Just back to Max for step and you'll be able
to fill in the gap for a here, Barry, but
it seems to me as though he's driving a difficult car,
a very difficult car, because he is, as you said,
a Formula one genius, one of the best we've ever seen.
Can can anybody feel that number two seat effectively?
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Look at again a great debate and you know they
obviously Carez was there for a number of years, you know,
started to struggle in the car alongside Max, and you
know there was debait about whether it was you know,
Krez losing his confidence as you know, as a driver
and getting a little older and a little bit maybe
(09:43):
bored or whatever it was. But you know, can someone
compete against Max? Well it's a big call. And you
know the car has obviously been developed for him, it's
gone down a path for his driving style and that
doesn't suit a lot of guys. You know, it's pretty
evident that you know a lot of people have to
try and adapt. And and now you see Sonoda just
(10:04):
struggling like anything to you know, to even understand, and
I mean so not a quality racing driver thing around him,
former one for four plus years, but he's struggling really
badly with that car. And yeah, look big question marks
finely on all of that. And you know, but that's
you know, were all Mexico. That's the question what will
he do? And time to tell.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Just to finish then, is there any set of circumstances
under which we might see Liam back in the Red
Bull car if Max stays or if Max goes, could
could or would Liam want to drive the Red Bull again?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Absolutely, And the way he will get back to Red
Bull it will be to a most importantly beat his teammate.
And he's got a very very strong teammate and Hadjar,
and I think we'll see that Hadjar. I mean, he's
I think the top shelf, a very very accomplished driver
doing an amazing job, and Liam's got a big job
(10:59):
to kind of beat him. He will need to consistently
show that he is faster, more consistent than Isaac. And
you know, if he can do that right through to
the end of the season, then he's definitely in with
a chance of getting back to Red Bull. And you
know again Carmifel. But the main thing for Liam how
(11:20):
he really wants to secure a seat and racing balls
next year. Concentrate on that and then what will be
from there will be and I think that needs to
be his goal.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Very great to get your insight and your expertise, I've learned, Heapes.
Thanks much for joining us this afternoon. I really appreciate your.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Time, my pleasure, mate, and go the all Black People go.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
The Avs indeed, Barry good Man, Barry Tomlins in there,
founder of the Toyota Racing Series. As you can hear,
they're a very astute motorsport analyst. Great to get his
views on what's going to happen at Red Bull with
Christian Horner departing. The next Formula One weekend actually is
in Belgium July twenty five through twenty seven, so a
(12:00):
couple of weeks away before we have Formula One to
look forward to again.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
For more Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live to
News Talk Set B weekends from midday, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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