Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Mike Cron is one of world rugby's most successful coaches.
He coached well over two hundred All Blacks games during
a golden era for the side, during which they won
two World Cups, fashioned an incredible winning record, and stayed
at the top of the world rugby rankings for longer
than any other team ever has.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
He also helped the Black.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Ferns to World Cup glory in twenty twenty two, and
last year became a member of Joe Schmidt's Wallaby set
up as they prepared to face the British and Irish
Lions first Test in Brisbane tonight. Mike Cron's book is out.
It's simply called Coach Lessons from an All Blacks Legend.
Mike Cron is with us on Weekend Sport. Mike, thanks
for your time, Congrats on the book. Could the Mike
(00:52):
Cron who coached the Saint Andrew's College Verse fifteen in
his late twenties ever have imagined the journey that rugby
has taken you on?
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Oh heck, no, nay, And I certainly don't coach like
I did back then. God, you know, that was my
first coaching gig in nineteen eighty three s Andandrew's. You know,
it was back then a boys college, private school in
christ Church, and it was a great stepping stone for me.
And you never thought that you're ever going to be
(01:22):
probably even a senior rugby coach back then.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
One thing that became obvious to me as I read
the book is how important to you the players are
as part of the coaching process. Which seems obvious, but
I'm sure it's not the case with some coaches. You say,
the best coach is the person you're performing the activity with.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Can you explain why that is?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Yeah? Okay, Well an example I use quite often when
I talked to coaches, you know, they say, oh, we
don't have resources like you've got, and I go, hold on,
you do, actually say you've got twenty five players at training,
twenty six players? Whatever? You do a little activity, you know,
like say, for instance, you know, coaches getting the peers
(02:04):
one holder hit pad, the other come in and punch rap,
you know, like we tackle and drive it back to
five each. Now that's how I was coached, you know
when I was playing. Now you know what would happen
is is that the guy holding the pad would give
instant feedback back to the guy doing the activity, like
good front leg drive or you hit and stopped or whatever.
(02:25):
So once you do that, you've now got you know,
twenty six coaches out on the training field, so you're
not you're not allowing mediocrity to ever creep into a session,
and that player is developing. And remember, learning is motivation
and motivation is enjoyment. So the player is learning, they're motivated.
If they're motivated, they're having fun and they're enjoying it,
(02:46):
which that's the whole idea.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Of it, isn't it absolutely right?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Another thing that I really enjoyed finding out about was
the fact that you visited many other sporting organizations to
find out new things, to observe the way they went
about things from ballet to suma wrestling. What drove that
desire in you and still does to think about things
a bit differently?
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Knowing that I don't know enough, that's the first thing
you've got to identify, I do not have enough knowledge.
And the second thing is first for knowledge. So they
are your two drivers. And I've always had and still
have a first for knowledge that I can come up
with some other way of educating my player or athlete
to understand how to use their body better, that I
(03:30):
can pass that on, and then it's up to them
if I'd like to keep that or delete it, you know.
So Hence I go around and try and pick up
things of different sports from you know, as you rightly said,
sumo and ballet, and I've been to cage fighting, and
I've been all over America, and you know, ice hockey
and basketball, netball, you know everything, jiu jitsu, wrestling, karate,
(03:55):
anything at all that is top level, I'll go into
and have a look. The big thing is, don't go
on with the preconceived of it there and think this
is what I want to learn. Just going with an
open mind, sit there and just soak it all up
and something will jump out the bottom. You know, that's valuable.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
The other quote that stood out for me in the
book was one you use a few times. You talk
about loving the players as much at nine o'clock at
night after they've played a game as you do at
seven thirty before they've played. How important a plank in
your coaching philosophy was That?
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Oh, it's huge and that I actually got that off
Steve Hanson. He drove that, and I think that's great
that an athlete knows that no matter what the result.
You know, when they trudge off for a game, you
know you're not a fear winded sailor. You don't just
pat them on the back when they win. You are
there for them and after every test like tomorrow night.
(04:47):
I don't know how this test is going to go
against the Furish and Irish Lions, but I guarantee you
whatever the result, the players will be treated exactly the
same by myself when they come back into the shed,
and I think that's really really important. They always thank
them for their effort. Sometimes it's good enough and other
times it's not good enough to get a win the
way it is. But I certainly will not be a
(05:08):
fair winded sailor and only be a friend when you win.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Scrum question for you, Mike, will a technically better scrummager
always get the better of a physically stronger player.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
No, not necessarily. You know, it's about mass and speed.
You know, it's the big guy who hadn't got much technique,
but he packed fires him in pretty good. There's a
lot of weight coming at you. So there's a bit
of this and a bit of that, you know, But
for me, I just work on the fact that if
I can get you technically as best you can possibly be,
(05:43):
so you use your body most efficiently, that gives you
more energy for getting around the paddic and running with
the fall and making tackles and doing stuff that you
love as well.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
How proud are you of the work that you have
done around scrum safety and safety of rugby players generally.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Yeah, yeah, I never really thought about it until I
was asked, as I'd go up to you know, government
house and receive a gong safety and it's something I'd
never do, you know. To be honest, well, I said
I'd never write a book too, But there you go.
I don't think I would have accepted if it was
(06:24):
just for coaching, you know, if they said, oh, you've
won a couple of World Cups coming up and get
a gong, I don't think I would have accepted that.
But it wasn't that. It was for safety over the
years and working with World Rugby and helping change laws
and working with the medical fraternity. So I go, oh, yeah,
I understand that, and yeah, that's probably so much to
(06:49):
be proud of.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Indeed, you should speaking of pride with as helping the
Black Ferns to World Cup victory at the back end
of twenty twenty two rank in your career.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Hell of a highlight because you never I had mucked
around coaching the Seventh Lady in the fifteens, but just
a one off session here, and the one off sessions
they're never full time like I did with Wayne Smith
and that, and it was well. I had to learn
that women learn differently when you're coaching them. I had
(07:23):
to learn that very quickly. And once once we formed
a relationship and they worked out, it was a safe
learning environment that they're in. We got growth, you know,
huge growth, daily growth with the ladies. They're outstanding, you know,
we just had to get them over a hump. That
what I found. Women they're very harsh on themselves. You know,
(07:46):
if they make a mistake at training, they beat themselves
up mentally, and we had to get past that and
get them to understand that to get growth that you
are we are going to stretch and stretch and stress
your skill level and you will fail at times. It's okay.
Eventually you'll achieve that skill. Once you achieve that skill,
(08:08):
we're going to make it harder, so you fail again,
and then eventually you will achieve that skill, and then
we again we make it harder. So that was sort
of like way in my philosophy. And once the woman
worked out out, they jumped at it and gave everything
a crack and we got huge growth in a very
short period of time.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Let's bring it to the present day.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
You're about to embark on a three Test series as
part of the Wallabies coaching set up against the British
and Irish Lions.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
How confident do you feel, Mike.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
That wouldn't be a word I'd use fair enough. They
are an extremely, extremely good team and this is my
I'm very lucky. This is my third series to coach
against the two thousand and five and twenty seventeen against
them when I was coaching the All Blacks and never
ever thought I'd have another crack at them, and now
here I am at twenty twenty five and you know,
(08:59):
they're an extremely good team. She was, and we do
not know until eight o'clock tomorrow night how how good
we are against them, So that's you know, I'll know
more than nine point thirty. You'll know that if you're
competitive or really competitive or better or a fair way off.
So it's one of those unknowns to be fair. All
(09:21):
I do know is that Joe and I and all
the other coaching staff, we've got the players as well
as they can be. You know, they are enjoying each
other's company. They're pretty clear in the head, the reasonably fit.
So all you hopeful is they can put their best
foot forward. But you know we'll not nine thirty.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Indeed, do you have a hunch Do you have a
hunch at and how are you going to.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Match up against them more? Are you really just going
to wait and see?
Speaker 4 (09:49):
No, I don't have a hunch, you know, I've seen
I've worked that out over. I don't know if I
was at one hundred and forty three testimony or not.
I think it is or some bloody think And I
you know when you think, when you think something, it
doesn't work out, you know. So I just keep a
very open mind and have watched the game as an
analyst and to help the players and not be a fan,
(10:12):
and hopefully they can. All your hope was that all
your players they go out there and put their best
foot forward. Now if it's not good enough, it's not
good enough. That it is good enough, that's great.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
How did you find the experience of coaching against the
All Blacks last year?
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Difficult? Very difficult. In a perfect world, I said, you know,
I'd just skipped those two Rugay Championship games to stay
at home on those too and just do Argentina and
Sarah Cever. It didn't make that way, does it. So
it's difficult, And it's lovely to go into the shed
and Wellington, We're all invited in and it was different
(10:47):
because it's not my shed anymore, because I was there
as a guest, and it was lovely to be invited
in and meet some really good friends. You know, guys
I've coached and management that I've worked for many years with,
so our friendships, you know, that's the wonderful thing about sport,
and that the friendships that you will have forever.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Indeed, and just to finish, Mike, are you able to
watch rugby just for the spectacle of a game of
rugby or is that not possible now that you've been
involved with the game at such a high coaching level
for so long.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Oh no, I you know, are you either go at
your coach's hat on or your fan hat? You know
what I mean. I can go down to the gamer's
they part, you know. I used to go down there
and watch, you know, say the Crusaders play or whatever,
and you've just got your fan hat on. You're sitting
there having a beer put the locals watching a game
of footie. And I have no problem with that at all,
(11:37):
you know, and really enjoy it, you know. But then
you know, when you're involved in a team, well you've
got to put your coaching hat on, you know. But
I think that's the easy way to describe it. Are
you do you have skin in the game or you're
just a fan the.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Books of Cracker Mike, it's called coach lessons from an
All Blacks legend out now.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Really appreciate you taking the time for a chat.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Made all the all the best in the series against
the British and Irish lines over the next three weekends.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Thanks very much. Have a good day.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
You have a good day too, Mike.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Thanks and Mike crom there preparing with Joe Schmidt to
take on the mite of the British and Irish Lions
first testers tonight ten o'clock New Zealand time at Brisbane
sun Call Stadium in Brisbane, so after the All Blacks game,
time to get home and watch the Lions against Australia,
the first of three Test matches over the next three weekends.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
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