August 9, 2025 • 13 mins
New Zealand Rugby boss Mark Robinson insists there's been no pushback from All Blacks coach Scott Robertson over the details of Richie Mo'unga's 18-month contract.
On his return next July, the first five will have to play for the Canterbury NPC team first - as he won't be eligible for tests until October 2026.
Mark Robinson joined Piney to discuss further.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Great to get the chance to welcome in New Zealand
Rugby CEO Mark Robinson, as we do on a fairly
regular basis, to chat through a number of rugby issues.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Mark.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thanks for your time as always on z B. Big
story this week, of course, was the return to New
Zealand of Richie Moore Ulna. He is back next year.
He'll be here until the back end of twenty twenty seven,
including the Rugby World Cup. Are you happy with the
outcome that has been achieved here?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, we are obviously. I mean, Richie's a proven talent,
you know, across many of the high stages in the game,
and he's been a great servant to New Zealand rugby.
You know, we know offer a lot to the environments
coming back to New Zealand and we're looking forward to
welcome them home.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Was there any thought given to him being eligible to
play for the All Blacks earlier than October of next year.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah, I mean I won't get into too many details
around how the you know, we reached our agreements Piney,
but clearly we were open to Richie signing for a
little bit longer, and had that happened, we would have
been able to under the policy we have have them
be eligible for the All Blacks earlier. But look, this
is this is Richie's decision. We fully respect it. We're
(01:27):
pleased to having him, have him coming home, as I said,
and ultimately I think he said, you know, he just
wants to keep some options open at the moment, and
we understand that.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Are you happy with the eligibility rules as they currently stand?
I know that they're examined all the time. People always
have their say about them. Are you happy with with
where they are? And do you continue to examine them
on a sort of a case by case basis.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
First thing, Yeah, absolutely, we're very comfortable with where the
policy sits. I think if you look across you know,
the last five or six years, Piney, you know, the
vast percentage of amount of talent we want to retain
in the country we have, and then we've been able
to provide some flexible to those long serving athletes that
(02:10):
you know, we believe have earned the right to have
those sabbatical arrangements in their contracts, and we do treat
those on a case by case basis. But we've got
a good sense of what that criteria looks like obviously
to make those decisions and feel like we've been really
consistent with those.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So if we look at the specific example of Richie,
he will spend three years in Japan, come back to
New Zealand, play NPC in one super campaign, go to
a World Cup and then could go back to Japan.
How does that reward the commitment that others have made
to be here for the full World Cup cycle.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Well, like I said, to the distinction there is that
he will have to come back and be eligible for
domestic rugby before consideration of being selected in the All Blacks,
whereas others who have signaled long term commitments have that
right to come back into the All Blacks environment immediately.
(03:02):
If you look at Jordi this year, that's a classic
xample of that, and others in more recent times obviously
as well. So that is the clear difference here.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I'm sure Scott Robertson would have wanted Richie earlier. Is
he happy? Is he comfortable with the arrangement that's been
reached here about him?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah? Obviously, I mean Raiser is close to the work
we're doing in negotiating with Richie and is obviously very
pleased to have him back, and he fully understands. I think,
you know, at the start of the years of reflecting,
after twelve months in the job, probably had great far
greater insight as to the tools and the flexibility we've
got within the eligibility policy, and is very supportive of
(03:42):
it at the moment. And I think, you know, when
we look at Lester Fayonnuku coming back Richie obviously, and
then we've got some more announcements in coming weeks and
months Piney that were really really pleased about, you know,
leading more out to we're looking to twenty eight and
twenty nine with a lot of the players now and
I think that's a combination of the quality of the
environments that were we've got established here in New Zealand
(04:06):
And and I think when we look at the calendars,
you and I have spoken many times on this. When
you look at the quality of the calendar the next
five years, all Black South Africa tours next year, the
Nation's Cup starting next year, two Lions Tours, you know,
men's and women's, and a World Cup, I think that's
got people hugely excited about the next four to five years.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And will it's some look at next year's calendar. I
don't think it's been finalized, has it. You mentioned though,
start of the Nation's Cup, the longer format All Blacks
tour of South Africa. When are we likely to see
a finalized schedule for twenty twenty six, hopefully.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
In the next couple of months, Piney. We had some
really productive meetings in Sydney last week. A number of
countries came into Sydney, obviously the last week of the Lions.
Six Nations and Sanze were both here, along with World
Rugby and certainly Nations Cup. Yeah, the South Africa All
(05:01):
Blacks concept and the work on the Lions tours all
got a really major push forward, and we're feeling really
confident now that we can come out soon hopefully and
share more information more formally about those all.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Right, So that's South African Tour. I mean, there's huge
anticipation about that. What are we talking here, Robert? Is
it like six to eight weeks away for these guys?
Is it three tests and some other games against teams
over there? Is that kind of what we're looking at?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, I mean I don't want to. You know, we
will reserve you know, the opportunity to talk about it
more and coming weeks, as we say, but it is
definitely an old school tour. There will be the traditional
midweek games about the strong against the strongest South African
provincial teams, and then obviously a significant test component as well.
So it will run over six to seven weeks from
(05:47):
sort of you know, early the middle August.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, looking forward to that, Lions. You were in Australia,
as you say, when the British and Irish lines were
there over the last month or so. We're on track,
are we for the men in coming in twenty twenty
nine and the inaugural women's tour here in twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, well, obviously we were getting a lot more advanced
with the women's tour because it's closer at hand, and
we're feeling really excited about that. I mean, we got
to a stage where we're starting to lock in the
schedule a lot more detail and you know, I think
people are going to be, you know, hugely excited about
(06:28):
what we're bringing to the country then, so we make
good progress there and need to be you know, that's
not that far away now with the men's it was
probably an opportunity to step back. But obviously in the
last two tours the lines have introduced a JV model
with South Africa in twenty twenty one and Australia for
this year, so it was our first real opportunity to
(06:52):
have a look at what that really entails, and look,
we think that will work really well, you know for
New Zealand. It might be slightly different to what we've
seen in South Africa and Australia because they're all different markets,
but overall we think it's a model given greater consideration too.
So we spent a lot of time talking about that,
and then again we looked at schedules, venues, you know, dates,
(07:18):
you know, everything really as it would relate around the
tour itself across those weeks from late late June twenty
twenty nine through to sort of early August, and then
talked a little bit about, you know, what more can
we be doing in the intervening years to be building
hype and creating really real anticipation across like least twenty six,
(07:39):
twenty seven, twenty eight as well, and that wouldn't be
any additional fixtures obviously, but there's you know a lot
of different things we could probably be doing to build
more anticipation for that tour as well. So it was
a fantastic you know, I see the meetings, We had
a whole day with them, with our appropriate team members
and theirs, and yeah, we're feeling really good about it.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
How does the joint venture arrangement differ from how it's
been done previously.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Well, you essentially you take all of the different rights
that apply to the to the tour in terms of
you know, revenue opportunities and basically build a model that
where where some of those are shared. Some of those
might be kept more separate to the lines in New
Zealand Rugby, but by and large you take a lot
(08:26):
more sort of collaborative approach to building building essentially building
as large as pie as you can pinting on the
commercial side and then figuring out how you can share that.
And I won't go into too much more detail than that,
but if you take things like you know, broadcasts matched
a merchandise and real retailing, hospitality and tours, you know,
(08:48):
all of that stuff combined and figure out a way
which it can be shared that you know that we
think will create a lot more benefit for both parties.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Rugby three sixty stories continue to pop up about some
massive sums of money reportedly being offered to top players,
not only here in New Zealand but around the world.
How concerned are you about the threat of Rugby three sixty.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
We're obviously staying, you know, pretty close to this work,
and I think at this stage point it's fair to say, yeah,
clearly that the people behind it are very serious. You know,
they've got a vision of what they are looking to
achieve in the club game. But there's still a huge
amount of work to be done and there's still a
(09:36):
lot of information that needs to be provided and understood
before you know, we're very clear as if this can
take place or not. But look, we're comfortable with that.
We've got good insights and heavy appropriate information we need
to understand at the moment on it.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Do you think it will go ahead?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Look, like I said, you know, there's it's really too
early to say. I mean, I think there's you know,
over thecoming sort of sixty eight weeks, some things could
be clear. There's another set of of you know, global
meetings in London around Rugby World Cup for the Woman's
(10:16):
at the end of September, and I think there'll be
another set of information made available then and we might
have a clearer picture. But there's you know, there's still
a lot of stuff to be understood before anyone can
be confident that will be going ahead.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
All right, we'll keep eyes on that. Our Black Ferns
on the plane next week, I think, to defend their
World Cup title in the Northern Hemisphere. How confident are
you feeling about their chances of winning a third straight
Women's Rugby World Cup.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Well, you know, it's firstly, it's just hugely exciting. It's
always exciting for the country and the fans and certainly
rugby across New Zealand to be going to a pinnacle event.
You know, we certainly know the English and the team
that everyone is talking about and a clear favorites. But
we're you know, we're reasonably comfortable with how we're tracking.
We got some really good we're done and the review
(11:08):
at the end of last year we're clearly there are
a few results we weren't and the team and Alan
weren't entirely comfortable with, and we think we've built into
this year quite nicely Obviously, the transition of the sevens
players has been a list of the environment, and you know,
we've had pretty good preparation leading in. So yeah, we
think we've got a great chance. We think we're building
and improving all the time, which is a nice place
(11:29):
to be going into a tournament like this. I don't
think our form is at all plateaued. We're still sort
of getting better week on weeks. So look, we're looking
forward to it. You know, we hopefully we can get
into a position where we're at the business end of
the tournament, of the playoffs, and then really, they are
anyone's games, aren't they. They're very close to the margins
and curbibly fine in the men's and women's game at
(11:51):
the moment international level, men's sevens and fifteen. So yeah,
we think we've got a good shot. We're looking forward
to it.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
How are we going with finding your replacement?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
You're asking the wrong You got the wrong person on
the end to view for that, Piney. Look, I think
I think the boarder getting into position to be in
market pretty soon.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I mean, yeah, again, I know you're you're right, you're
the wrong person to ask, But what does that look
like in terms of a handover that sort of thing,
and a timefram like what are we today, We're sort
of early August. Are you looking sort of in the
next couple of months that you will have some sort
of clarity around who it is and then be able
to give them a decent hand of it.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Well, well, again that's not for me to determine point
out certainly. What I would say is I'll do anything
I possibly can to help with the transition and to
support the board with with any insights or information they
want from me. And if it works, you know, if
I'm still in post when when the new person's coming in,
obviously that'll that'll work really seamlessly provide some form of handover,
(12:59):
and if not, I'm very open to what that could
look like as well. So so again you know, I'm
I'm here, and I love the organization, I love the
game in our country and would do what I came
to support that. But ultimately it's for you know, for
the board to be working through at the moment, and
no day are doing that.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
All right, Well, thanks for joining us. You are still
into our CEO, so we appreciate you joining us. As always,
hopefully we can do it a couple more times before
you do knock it on the head.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I'd love to do that, Pinney. Thanks thanks very much
as always to Shedding and hopefully the listeners out there
and joy us some more great forty coming up in
the next few weeks.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Indeed, I'm sure we will. Thanks Mark Mark Robinson, CEO
of New Zealand Rugby. Of course until the end of
the year anyway.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk zed B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Great to get the chance to welcome in New Zealand
Rugby CEO Mark Robinson, as we do on a fairly
regular basis, to chat through a number of rugby issues.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Mark.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thanks for your time as always on z B. Big
story this week, of course, was the return to New
Zealand of Richie Moore Ulna. He is back next year.
He'll be here until the back end of twenty twenty seven,
including the Rugby World Cup. Are you happy with the
outcome that has been achieved here?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, we are obviously. I mean, Richie's a proven talent,
you know, across many of the high stages in the game,
and he's been a great servant to New Zealand rugby.
You know, we know offer a lot to the environments
coming back to New Zealand and we're looking forward to
welcome them home.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Was there any thought given to him being eligible to
play for the All Blacks earlier than October of next year.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah, I mean I won't get into too many details
around how the you know, we reached our agreements Piney,
but clearly we were open to Richie signing for a
little bit longer, and had that happened, we would have
been able to under the policy we have have them
be eligible for the All Blacks earlier. But look, this
is this is Richie's decision. We fully respect it. We're
(01:27):
pleased to having him, have him coming home, as I said,
and ultimately I think he said, you know, he just
wants to keep some options open at the moment, and
we understand that.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Are you happy with the eligibility rules as they currently stand?
I know that they're examined all the time. People always
have their say about them. Are you happy with with
where they are? And do you continue to examine them
on a sort of a case by case basis.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
First thing, Yeah, absolutely, we're very comfortable with where the
policy sits. I think if you look across you know,
the last five or six years, Piney, you know, the
vast percentage of amount of talent we want to retain
in the country we have, and then we've been able
to provide some flexible to those long serving athletes that
(02:10):
you know, we believe have earned the right to have
those sabbatical arrangements in their contracts, and we do treat
those on a case by case basis. But we've got
a good sense of what that criteria looks like obviously
to make those decisions and feel like we've been really
consistent with those.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So if we look at the specific example of Richie,
he will spend three years in Japan, come back to
New Zealand, play NPC in one super campaign, go to
a World Cup and then could go back to Japan.
How does that reward the commitment that others have made
to be here for the full World Cup cycle.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Well, like I said, to the distinction there is that
he will have to come back and be eligible for
domestic rugby before consideration of being selected in the All Blacks,
whereas others who have signaled long term commitments have that
right to come back into the All Blacks environment immediately.
(03:02):
If you look at Jordi this year, that's a classic
xample of that, and others in more recent times obviously
as well. So that is the clear difference here.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I'm sure Scott Robertson would have wanted Richie earlier. Is
he happy? Is he comfortable with the arrangement that's been
reached here about him?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah? Obviously, I mean Raiser is close to the work
we're doing in negotiating with Richie and is obviously very
pleased to have him back, and he fully understands. I think,
you know, at the start of the years of reflecting,
after twelve months in the job, probably had great far
greater insight as to the tools and the flexibility we've
got within the eligibility policy, and is very supportive of
(03:42):
it at the moment. And I think, you know, when
we look at Lester Fayonnuku coming back Richie obviously, and
then we've got some more announcements in coming weeks and
months Piney that were really really pleased about, you know,
leading more out to we're looking to twenty eight and
twenty nine with a lot of the players now and
I think that's a combination of the quality of the
environments that were we've got established here in New Zealand
(04:06):
And and I think when we look at the calendars,
you and I have spoken many times on this. When
you look at the quality of the calendar the next
five years, all Black South Africa tours next year, the
Nation's Cup starting next year, two Lions Tours, you know,
men's and women's, and a World Cup, I think that's
got people hugely excited about the next four to five years.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And will it's some look at next year's calendar. I
don't think it's been finalized, has it. You mentioned though,
start of the Nation's Cup, the longer format All Blacks
tour of South Africa. When are we likely to see
a finalized schedule for twenty twenty six, hopefully.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
In the next couple of months, Piney. We had some
really productive meetings in Sydney last week. A number of
countries came into Sydney, obviously the last week of the Lions.
Six Nations and Sanze were both here, along with World
Rugby and certainly Nations Cup. Yeah, the South Africa All
(05:01):
Blacks concept and the work on the Lions tours all
got a really major push forward, and we're feeling really
confident now that we can come out soon hopefully and
share more information more formally about those all.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Right, So that's South African Tour. I mean, there's huge
anticipation about that. What are we talking here, Robert? Is
it like six to eight weeks away for these guys?
Is it three tests and some other games against teams
over there? Is that kind of what we're looking at?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, I mean I don't want to. You know, we
will reserve you know, the opportunity to talk about it
more and coming weeks, as we say, but it is
definitely an old school tour. There will be the traditional
midweek games about the strong against the strongest South African
provincial teams, and then obviously a significant test component as well.
So it will run over six to seven weeks from
(05:47):
sort of you know, early the middle August.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, looking forward to that, Lions. You were in Australia,
as you say, when the British and Irish lines were
there over the last month or so. We're on track,
are we for the men in coming in twenty twenty
nine and the inaugural women's tour here in twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, well, obviously we were getting a lot more advanced
with the women's tour because it's closer at hand, and
we're feeling really excited about that. I mean, we got
to a stage where we're starting to lock in the
schedule a lot more detail and you know, I think
people are going to be, you know, hugely excited about
(06:28):
what we're bringing to the country then, so we make
good progress there and need to be you know, that's
not that far away now with the men's it was
probably an opportunity to step back. But obviously in the
last two tours the lines have introduced a JV model
with South Africa in twenty twenty one and Australia for
this year, so it was our first real opportunity to
(06:52):
have a look at what that really entails, and look,
we think that will work really well, you know for
New Zealand. It might be slightly different to what we've
seen in South Africa and Australia because they're all different markets,
but overall we think it's a model given greater consideration too.
So we spent a lot of time talking about that,
and then again we looked at schedules, venues, you know, dates,
(07:18):
you know, everything really as it would relate around the
tour itself across those weeks from late late June twenty
twenty nine through to sort of early August, and then
talked a little bit about, you know, what more can
we be doing in the intervening years to be building
hype and creating really real anticipation across like least twenty six,
(07:39):
twenty seven, twenty eight as well, and that wouldn't be
any additional fixtures obviously, but there's you know a lot
of different things we could probably be doing to build
more anticipation for that tour as well. So it was
a fantastic you know, I see the meetings, We had
a whole day with them, with our appropriate team members
and theirs, and yeah, we're feeling really good about it.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
How does the joint venture arrangement differ from how it's
been done previously.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Well, you essentially you take all of the different rights
that apply to the to the tour in terms of
you know, revenue opportunities and basically build a model that
where where some of those are shared. Some of those
might be kept more separate to the lines in New
Zealand Rugby, but by and large you take a lot
(08:26):
more sort of collaborative approach to building building essentially building
as large as pie as you can pinting on the
commercial side and then figuring out how you can share that.
And I won't go into too much more detail than that,
but if you take things like you know, broadcasts matched
a merchandise and real retailing, hospitality and tours, you know,
(08:48):
all of that stuff combined and figure out a way
which it can be shared that you know that we
think will create a lot more benefit for both parties.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Rugby three sixty stories continue to pop up about some
massive sums of money reportedly being offered to top players,
not only here in New Zealand but around the world.
How concerned are you about the threat of Rugby three sixty.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
We're obviously staying, you know, pretty close to this work,
and I think at this stage point it's fair to say, yeah,
clearly that the people behind it are very serious. You know,
they've got a vision of what they are looking to
achieve in the club game. But there's still a huge
amount of work to be done and there's still a
(09:36):
lot of information that needs to be provided and understood
before you know, we're very clear as if this can
take place or not. But look, we're comfortable with that.
We've got good insights and heavy appropriate information we need
to understand at the moment on it.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Do you think it will go ahead?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Look, like I said, you know, there's it's really too
early to say. I mean, I think there's you know,
over thecoming sort of sixty eight weeks, some things could
be clear. There's another set of of you know, global
meetings in London around Rugby World Cup for the Woman's
(10:16):
at the end of September, and I think there'll be
another set of information made available then and we might
have a clearer picture. But there's you know, there's still
a lot of stuff to be understood before anyone can
be confident that will be going ahead.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
All right, we'll keep eyes on that. Our Black Ferns
on the plane next week, I think, to defend their
World Cup title in the Northern Hemisphere. How confident are
you feeling about their chances of winning a third straight
Women's Rugby World Cup.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Well, you know, it's firstly, it's just hugely exciting. It's
always exciting for the country and the fans and certainly
rugby across New Zealand to be going to a pinnacle event.
You know, we certainly know the English and the team
that everyone is talking about and a clear favorites. But
we're you know, we're reasonably comfortable with how we're tracking.
We got some really good we're done and the review
(11:08):
at the end of last year we're clearly there are
a few results we weren't and the team and Alan
weren't entirely comfortable with, and we think we've built into
this year quite nicely Obviously, the transition of the sevens
players has been a list of the environment, and you know,
we've had pretty good preparation leading in. So yeah, we
think we've got a great chance. We think we're building
and improving all the time, which is a nice place
(11:29):
to be going into a tournament like this. I don't
think our form is at all plateaued. We're still sort
of getting better week on weeks. So look, we're looking
forward to it. You know, we hopefully we can get
into a position where we're at the business end of
the tournament, of the playoffs, and then really, they are
anyone's games, aren't they. They're very close to the margins
and curbibly fine in the men's and women's game at
(11:51):
the moment international level, men's sevens and fifteen. So yeah,
we think we've got a good shot. We're looking forward
to it.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
How are we going with finding your replacement?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
You're asking the wrong You got the wrong person on
the end to view for that, Piney. Look, I think
I think the boarder getting into position to be in
market pretty soon.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
I mean, yeah, again, I know you're you're right, you're
the wrong person to ask, But what does that look
like in terms of a handover that sort of thing,
and a timefram like what are we today, We're sort
of early August. Are you looking sort of in the
next couple of months that you will have some sort
of clarity around who it is and then be able
to give them a decent hand of it.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Well, well, again that's not for me to determine point
out certainly. What I would say is I'll do anything
I possibly can to help with the transition and to
support the board with with any insights or information they
want from me. And if it works, you know, if
I'm still in post when when the new person's coming in,
obviously that'll that'll work really seamlessly provide some form of handover,
(12:59):
and if not, I'm very open to what that could
look like as well. So so again you know, I'm
I'm here, and I love the organization, I love the
game in our country and would do what I came
to support that. But ultimately it's for you know, for
the board to be working through at the moment, and
no day are doing that.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
All right, Well, thanks for joining us. You are still
into our CEO, so we appreciate you joining us. As always,
hopefully we can do it a couple more times before
you do knock it on the head.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I'd love to do that, Pinney. Thanks thanks very much
as always to Shedding and hopefully the listeners out there
and joy us some more great forty coming up in
the next few weeks.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Indeed, I'm sure we will. Thanks Mark Mark Robinson, CEO
of New Zealand Rugby. Of course until the end of
the year anyway.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk zed B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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