Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalk zed B.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Here in New Zealand n ZED twenty for the first time,
we can hear from those behind the idea. Don McKinnon
is the chair of the n ZED twenty establishing Committee
and one of the most experienced and respected figures in
New Zealand's sporting governance. He joins us now on Weekend Sport. Don,
thanks for your time. Let's start with who is involved
(00:33):
in n Z twenty.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Yeah, Gothan and Jason Well. I am ares that about
three or four months ago.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
And I was approached back then by a group of
people including Stephen Swimming, obviously one of the greats of
our game, Heath Mills, who's the CEO of the Players Association,
some of the MHS, and a few other people who
love the game and I think are really well respected
(01:04):
in the game and based I was asked if I
would have a look at this project, whether I thought
it was viable, whether I thought it could work in
New Zealand, and if I did, how we might advance
it to a point where we could bring it to
New Zealand Cricket as an option for them to have
a really good look at So that's been the process.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Do you think it's viable?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
In fact, I'm extraordinarily excited by it, and that excitement's actually.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Growing over time. I must admit. Throw the go back
a decade.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
I was actually on the board of New Zealand Cricket
and we looked at setting up a franchise league back
in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen. I think it was at
the time we didn't think it was viable. But as
one highly respected figure put to me, you know, there's
never been more money in the international game of cricket.
At the moment, it's a wash in cash, frankly, and
(02:02):
so many people around the world are excited by it,
are investing in its Franklin, New Zealand's not part of that.
We've stayed in that model where we're very much relied
on our wonderful international teams, our Black Caps, our White
fans to sort of carry beload, and I just think
the time is right to maybe tweak that model and
(02:23):
to create something to get our domestic league that fans
are really excited by. So yes, I think the money's there,
and I think the interest's there, and I think the
timing is perfect.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So we specifically or even generally, would investment in NZ
twenty come from, well.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
That's inevitably a good chunk of it would be international. Now,
obviously in cricket, India is very high on that list,
but it's by no means the only areas or countries
where money is coming into the game. And you see
that in areas like South Africa in the Caribbean League.
You see it the interest in even European cricket at
(03:01):
the moment, Asian cricket. So our initial investigations inquiries show
a really high level of interest in investing in this
tournament in New Zealand. We would want if we possibly could,
also have local investment, and the model we have created
(03:21):
also ensures some really significant benefits for our major associations.
So the community game benefits from this competition if we
get it right. But I've been frankly a little bit
blown away by just how respected cricket in New Zealand
is and therefore the level of interest in getting involved
(03:43):
in something that we set up.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I want to come back to the grassroots benefit in
a moment, but investment of the type you're talking about
is it sustainable over a long period of time?
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Yeah, again, it's a great question. I think the answer
is yes. But you know, only time tells, right. So
the key thing to bear in mind here is we
are probably not Probably we are the only major nation
that doesn't have a form of franchise cricket. Now. The
BBL is slightly different in Australia in the sense its
ownership is more out of the states at present. That
(04:16):
could change in the future. But what we're looking to
do here is not novel. In actual fact, it's done
all around the world. The better question might be why
aren't we now? What we do know is that the
South African League, for example, has gone from loss making
to extraordinarily successful. The Caribbean League has done exactly the same,
(04:37):
And the Caribbean League is probably the model we've most
folks mostly looked at as replicating, in part in the
sense it's a relatively small economy, a relatively small talent pool.
Yet it is reinvigorating the game in the Caribbean. You know,
you just have to watch anything on TV and see
(04:57):
fans in Trinidad or in Jamaica just going absolutely nuts
over domestic cricketer game. So you know here in thirty
years time, I don't know, but the model is certainly
doing great things for the game at the moment, and
I think that we there's absolutely no reason we can't
do it here.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
What would New Zealand Crickets involvement in n Z twenty
consist of, Well.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Most importantly, they have to agree to it.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
So, I mean, one of the reasons I was keen
to talk is that there's been this somewhat strange description
floating around of a rebel league. This is as far
from a rebel league as you could get. Certainly the
group that I've described other people that have tried to
bring it together, but we brought it to New Zealand
Cricket as a proposal some months ago. I've worked closely
(05:52):
with New Zealand called a board.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
NZ SEA Board.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Have put two members of their board on our committee
to help us assess the project. They have been really
clear in telling us this is one option that they
wish to look at and it's by no means the
only option to grow the game in New Zealand, and
frankly that's good governance.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I support that on no problem with that at all.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
But you know, it would be crazy to do this
without the support of New Zeigon Cricket, and we are
doing our best to set this up in a way
where ultimately their wo would go, Yes, we're on board,
we want to grant this license, we want to support this,
and if they don't it, if they've got something better
that they think can invigorate.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
The game in New Zealand, then then so be it.
On all for.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Cricket growing in New Zealand. So if there's something better
out there, that's the option they'll take. I have to
say though, that from my perspective and with the team
I'm working with, we think this is just so exciting,
such a great opportunity for the game.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
You alluded to it before, don How would n Z
twenty benefit the grassroots of the game here in New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Well, first and foremost, the model we've designed and would
be you receive a league at league investor puts money
into actually help fund the competition for a period of
time until we can get it back to break even
and then to actually start making money. You then sell
your teams. Our concept would be potentially six teams and
(07:25):
the men's competition around the country we are also wanting
to have a woman's comp that the men's comp would
be six teams around the country. Effectively, the revenue generator
from the sale of those teams would go into a
capital fund for our major associations and the major association
excuse me, the major associations would own twenty five percent
(07:48):
of the cop Now that's the concept that's still open
to discussion with NZC and other parties. But if you
think about it, the team fund basically creates an investment
which will help fund community cricket through the maas four
years to come. And if this thing starts to make
really good, there's ongoing distributions as well, So it's certainly
(08:12):
not just elite cricket with no interest in the game here.
If it works, that money goes straight into a major associations.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
If the competition's played in January, which by the sounds
of it is the proposed window for it, how would
you ensure top quality import players Given the fact that
the Aussie Big Bash is on at that time, the
South African T twenty competition is also on at that time,
you wouldn't be the only game on the globe during January.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Correct, Yeah, And we're really conscious of that. I think
Jason that the first thing is we want to make
sure our very best New Zealand players are playing in it.
So Heath has been talking a lot too. You know,
the Daryn Mitchell's of this world and the Kane Williamsons
and our best players. They are incredibly excited about this
(08:59):
as a concept. So you know, first and foremost you're
going to have you know, a young kid playing for
Otago bowling to Fine for example. That's got to be
good for the game in New Zealand. Do you think
about it too?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Though?
Speaker 4 (09:12):
There's an awful lot of really good white ball cricketers
around the world, and not all of them can play
in South Africa and Australia. So I have no doubt
that there would be the opportunity to still supplement squads.
You know, let's take a squad of say fifteen players.
Three or four of those might be international players, and
they would still be very good, exciting players that we
(09:33):
think would help put bums on seats. There might also be,
and we're just exploring this at the moment, the possibility
of a marquet player. So if an owners says listen,
I comply with a salary cap which we'd have in
place around the fundage of my team, but I'm allowed
to spend whatever I like on one player. That's another
way where we're sort of thinking about whether that could
(09:54):
just if you've got the money and you want to
spend it on you know, I don't know, a Nicholas
Pooran or Ben Stokes or whatever, then if it's your
private money, you're not taking that money out of a
community game that could only be good.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
In my view, is there a desire to make sure
that n Z twenty also improves the international performances of
our black Caps and White fans.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
I think it sort of happens automatically.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
I mean, I'd be the first to say that that
the key to this model is that the Black Caps
and the White fans remain the pre eminent model, the
pre eminent tool to drive the game in New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
That's the way the models set up.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
And we are only talking about sort of in the
men's case, a four week window of this comp But
you know the example I gave of, you know, a
young quick bowl of bowling to finel and at the
top of the top of a teach n Z twenty
match can only improve skill set. You know, at the moment,
so many of our best players are actually not committing
(10:54):
to New Zealand contracts because of the money they can
earn around the world. We feel quite confident this will
help in zed see retain that talent and retain more
centrally contracted players. It's not the panacea to everything. Would
be the first to say that as well, but from
our perspective, it could only be good in terms of
improving the quality of our young men and women coming
(11:16):
through our system.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
You mentioned the Caribbean Premier League before as a competition
you're perhaps looking to model yourselves on. Is there any
kind of cautionary tale there done and that the overwhelming
focus on their T twenty game has had a dramatic
effect on their test side.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Well, I thinks there the dramatic effect on the test site.
To be honest, it probably have started twenty thirty years ago,
So I don't think the Caribbean League.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Really can can have to.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
It's probably fair that that has to wear that responsibility.
But I think the key thing about what we're talking
about here is we're looking to design something really unique
and boutique. So we're simply talking about four weeks and
we know, for example that you know there'll be will
be occasions that four week window has to adjust. So
for example, the black Cats play I think the Fourth
(12:13):
Test against Australia last week at the beginning at the
beginning of January twenty seven, if that was our start
date with the comp, we have to adjust slightly our
window to make sure the black Cats were still totally
the pre eminent the thing on display in terms of
cricket and New Zealand. But I think if we do
it small, we do it's really snappy, sharp. We create
something that's totally fa obsessive for four weeks of a
(12:35):
year in another period before Christmas, potentially for our woman.
I don't think that's going to take away from the
overall focus on our international teams.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
I think it can only help more people.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Get excited about cricket, so that you know, at the
end of a ten Z twenty comp we've got some
international side coming to New Zealand. I think more bums
are going to be on seats, not less.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
And you mentioned before that there are other ways, and
I'm sure you've heard them. There's a whether it's a
proposal or an idea of a New Zealand team or
teams entering Australia's Big Bash. Do you have a view
on that and why ND twenty would be a better option?
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Well, I do. I mean again, I'll be the first to.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Applaud New Zealand Cricket for looking at all of their
options and I think they're doing the right thing. And
as I see it, if ultimately they say that's better
for cricket in New Zealand, then we will live with
that and I will wish that project every success. I
think from our perspective, assuming we can get the investment,
and people are entitled to question whether we can or not,
(13:41):
but if we can deliver the investment we believe we
can receive, then it seems to me a competition that's
played throughout New Zealand. So in our ideal world, we're
talking ideally holiday venues, you know. Could you imagine a
team in Queenstown, for example, at the peak of summer
with some of our best players playing some great international players.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
So I think it's better for fans, I.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Think it's better for players, think it's better for our regions,
and personally, I think it's better for the black Cap
white Fern development program. But as I said, that's just
our opinion and I fully accept that New Zealand Cricketer
are looking at all their options, as I said, as
I should.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
So what is your time frame that you're working to
now as a as an establishing committee? What are the
next steps? Ideally, don would be looking at something that
is up and running, you know, the summer after this one.
Would that be possible?
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, that's that's still the goal, Jason.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
The it's fair to say that that some of this
talk around rebel League has not been overly helpful for
us to be to be fair, but you may or
may not be aware that that super Smash effectively is
no longer televised as I understand it, after the summer,
and we think that provides a real opportunity for us
(15:01):
to step in and create something really exciting at that time.
So our goal is still to have a competition in
place by January twenty seven, and we've got a work program,
a pretty detailed one between now and then, so that's
what we're going to keep working too. New Zealand Cricket
(15:23):
obviously need to make a decision relatively soon as to
whether they want to continue to work with us to
see if that's achievable or look at other options.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
But at the moment, if we can, and it sets
a hell of a big ask, I've.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Got to admit, but we're going to work really hard
to see if we could have this ready to go
straight after the last test against the Aussies next year.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Sorry, not much, yeah, twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yes, has the labeling of this incorrectly as you say
as a rebel league, has that been unhelpful in terms
of securing investment?
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Well, I think investors from overseas want that comes to
New Zealand for all the right reasons, and the right
reasons are certainly for the people we're talking to, who
I have to say are really high quality overseas investors,
extremely reputable, extremely well regarded. They don't want to come
into an environment that's controversial. They wanted to come into
(16:19):
an environment where they're welcomed. They want to come into
an environment where they can make a difference. So that's
the sort of environment we are looking to create, and
I hope everybody in New Zland Crackit wants that sort
of environment because that can only be good for the game.
I mean, somebody said to me recently, you know, they
raised the question of overseas investments, and I mentioned the
(16:41):
example which is dear to you, of AFC. I mean,
AFC are founded in part of overseas investments, and you
could only describe them as being as that investment, as
being outstanding for football, outstanding.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
For the game.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
So I hope we're mature enough as a country and
as a sporting nation to go if overseas investors are
looking to invest in our sport for the right reasons,
for the right sort of people, that's that's just that's
just awesome, and we should be welcoming that with open arts.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Don, you've given us a terrific insight this afternoon. Thanks
so much for your time. We look forward to staying
in touch with with developments.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
To come CHET Jason, thanks very much for your time.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
No thanks for yours, Don, I appreciate it very much.
Don McKinnon there the chair of the establishing committee for
ENZED twenty.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
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