November 21, 2025 • 16 mins
The All Blacks will be looking to bounce back against a Welsh team who can't seem to catch a break.
They've only won two tests since the 2023 Rugby World Cup, both wins coming against Japan this year, and look a long way away from being the team that won the 6 Nations in 2021.
It’s a task made no simpler by the fact that they’re facing a wounded All Blacks side who are looking to exorcise their loss to England.
Former Welsh winger Alex Cuthbert told Piney that if Wales can get a bit of parity in the lineout and scrum, that’s when they’ll be dangerous.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Test of the Year Principality Stadium Card of ten past
four Tomorrow morning, New Zealand time. It's the thirty eighth
meeting between these two dating back to nineteen oh five.
Wales won three of the first four, but the All
Blacks have won the last thirty three Test matches between
the two, dating all the way back to nineteen sixty three.
(00:33):
Matches between the two have been infrequent in recent times.
This is just the fifth meeting since a three Test
series here in New Zealand in twenty sixteen, and it's
the first time the All Blacks have played Wales in
over three years. Great pleasure to welcome into the show
former Welsh winger Alex Cuthbert.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Checking it up as Samuel robiton Dex year over halfway
he's on his own slums into the last trader thing
this defense such as oh and Farrell now who has
fours array. Phillips gets it out too Bigger Kilee, Halfpenny,
Jamie Roberts, Chippey on the outside of hust Cosbert with
him dummies goes to the gup Dika.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
That must be a ship.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Championship to Wales, absolutely fantastic. They kept the best until last,
nothing at all England could do from their own. Twenty
two Wales with the try of the championship and the
try to win the championship a second for Alex Cuthbert
h Wales magnificent.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Here, high excitement there. Alex Cuthbert debut for Wales twenty
eleven went on to earn fifty seven caps for his
national side, scoring sixteen tries including that one, and playing
a pivotal role in the six Nations Grand Slam winning
campaign in twenty twelve and the sixth Nations Championship win
in twenty thirteen. He also toured with the British and
Irish lines to Australia in twenty thirteen, where he scored
(01:59):
a crucial try in the first Test victory over the
Wallabies in Brisbane. At club level, he enjoyed success with
Carl of Exit and Ospryce and officially announced his retirement
in September. He's already started to forge a successful career
in rugby panditry across various platforms. Alex Cuthbert is with US.
(02:19):
Alex thanks for joining us, mate, I'm going to dive
straight in here. What has happened to Welsh rugby in
the two years since the last Rugby World Cup?
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Wow? Good morning and how long have you got mate?
Speaker 5 (02:34):
It's been It's been a bit of a rollercoaster, to
be honest, mate. You know, weirdly, I was actually that
was my last campaign, was the World Cup. So I
got injured in the summer before and I didn't play
a game after that, to be honest, So that was.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
My last campaign.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
And weirdly, we were actually in an all right state,
you know, in terms of obviously Warren Gatton coming in,
we got out the group we know, beat like so Fiji.
We absolutely thunked Australia forty points and you could look
at that squad then and think, hang on better, you know,
there's something to work with. But I think after that
World Cup a lot of boys retired, obviously, like myself
(03:14):
down bigger and when that there were a number of
boys and I think there was just a bit of
some wrong decision in maybe getting rid of us too soon,
maybe not trying to integrate some youngsters. And then we'll
see then a lot of things happening with the union in.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Terms of.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Budgets and contract situations because we had a number of
strike you know, I was in one where we were
literally just about to pull the plug against England, which
is one of the biggest games in the you know,
in the European fictionalists.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
So yeah, since then.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Mate, it's sort of gone down here and obviously now
they're trying to decide whether we cut the amount of regions.
You know, it's like they're all about trying to get
rid of the team down in West Wales, whether that's
the Ostras or Scarlets. You know, that's pretty much like
trying to say they're going to get rid of the
Highlanders because they're down south. So you know, geographically it
just seems wild, doesn't it. So yeah, a lot of
(04:13):
things up in the air, mate, at the moment, and
it's a lot to take in, you know, especially this
Welsh national team. There's a lot of young players in
there who a lot of this is just happening for
the first time.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So if we look with an optimistic leans, then how
much optimism is there that, you know, having been through
this very challenging two year period, that things can and
will turn around in the next little while or will
it still take a bit of time.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
This is going to be sometime, mate. This is we're
talking a number of years. We're talking near enough an
era in terms of where they put the money. Now,
so do you put you pump your money into these
three regions and hopefully you know, we start correct players,
but it starts on the bottom for me, so like
school level and that's sort of that age grade when
(05:02):
they're getting into sort of like cult rugby and senior
men's rugby, we'll lose and too many kids. So we
lose a lot of kids to England for college and education,
and then obviously then clubs in England pick up those
players and then obviously we've lost a few.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
I likes to fail Manual Boso, he was.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
You know, he's he lives in you know, he's from Cardiff,
should be playing for Wales and he's playing for England.
You know, we're not We're not a nation gifted with
a lot of players, have world class players to lose
to England especially, So yeah, that's going to be a
big focus point in terms of Obviously, firstly it's figuring
(05:41):
out what team they are going to get rid of.
So we are definitely going down to three teams, so
that's the biggest talking point, and and and and trying
to navigate through that because it's it's going to get messy.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Let's be honest.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
You know, there's no one that's just going to say, oh,
I'll put my hand up and be the team to go.
You know, it's going to come to tender and then
we're talking all finances then. But ideally in the future,
I guess we're going to get to a point in
two years where hopefully our product is good enough to
maybe move leagues or something like that. That's what's been banded around.
But for me, I think we need to put our
money into our into our infrastructure lower down and the
(06:15):
players that we're losing, especially the younger ages, and whether
we look to the World Cup in six years and
ten years, maybe that might be the right answer and
maybe not give up on this team now in the
next World Cup, but you know, put the resources in
the in the areas where we're going to start to
see some benefit, whether it is five, six, seven, eight
years time.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
It is such a challenging and interesting time for Welsh rugby.
How is new Welsh head coach Steve Tandy regarded.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
Yeah, well, I thought as Ricker sort of speaks to himself,
for I think, you know, we went to As, he's
done his trade in Wales. Then he went out and
went to the Waratas. I think, you know, that's the
best thing for a young coaches, going out and exploring
different experiences. It opens your eyes because when you end
up being in a country or coaching in a place
for a long period of time. Even as a player,
(07:04):
I remember when I was in Wales and you feel
like that's the boor and end, or then I moved
away and you're like, well, hang on a minute, let's
see the game completely different. So I think Steve's done that,
you know, And then he went to Scotland and he
definitely improved their defense. Albeit you know, we're seeing this
leaking a little bit at the moment, isn't it. But
I think he's the right man because he's welsh Man's Welsh,
(07:25):
He's very passionate. He's a guy that's going to feel
the hurt of the nation in terms of you know,
being twelve in the world is absolutely insane when you
think about it. Really where we were even five, six,
seven years ago, we were actually weirdly world number one
for a week, so, you know, not that long ago.
So yeah, I think he's the right man. He's got
(07:45):
some young coaches as well. You know, they're going to
earn their trade and I guess we will figure out
in the next eighteen months really if that group are
really going to be good enough. But the end of
the day, mate, you're only as good as what you've
got to deal with, isn't it in terms of your
player pool and the quality of players. And if you
look at that Welsh squad, the good rubber play, but
(08:07):
I'd probably say we only got two three world class
rubber players. The rest are good rugby players, but are
they up to international level at the moment. No, But
you can sort of forgive some of them with obviously
the excuses over the last couple of years. But it's
going to get to the point where Steve's going to
have quite a bit of time with these guys and
if we don't see any I guess identity or a
(08:29):
bit of fight in these games, we're just going to
get further and further behind. In the likes of Arzentina,
who are absolutely flying, you know, you obviously maybe they're
going through a bit of a transition period at the moment.
Australia not sure where they are, but you know, South
Africa seemed to be just flying further and further ahead,
and we don't want that gap to get bigger because
the whole point of the new restruction of this league
(08:51):
is that we get closer together and it's more competitive,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Well, let's talk about this game. Do the All Blacks
feel in any way vulnerable to you given what happened
at twicken them a week ago?
Speaker 5 (09:03):
No, not all. I'll be honest. That game from a
point of view where they're are. You look at the
stats and you think, how are they lost by that much?
So that I don't think they're far off it, But
looking at their team this weekend, it's very It's quite mismatch,
isn't it for you? I don't know what you guys
think about it, but there's a lot of players that
(09:23):
haven't played a lot of minutes together, a lot of
obviously top pass players, don't get me wrong, you know,
likes of like Rico Irony and Antiltte Brown and these
sort of guys who don't get it wrong. They probably
just love a night out in Cardiff and they go
well every time they come here, don't they.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
So you know, I don't think there's any pressure on them.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
The bookies have got Wales plus twenty eight, you know
that they're obviously expecting to win pretty well. But whether
Wales can sort of rattle certain players, you know, they
haven't had a lot of minutes. They don't seem to
be quite on the money babies, you know, in terms
of what they're after. Defensively they look quite weak and
you know, especially off set peace. You know how England
sort of seem to really get some games through there.
(10:03):
So Wales Matt Schaer at the backs coach, is very
good at start a place. So if Whes can get
a little bit of parody in the line out and
the scrum, Whales will be quite dangerous because we have
got some extract to players, but we just seem to
we lose control when we're not winning the front foot
game line. And the New Zealand are pretty good defensively
as well, and they're very good New Zealand their defensive lineup,
(10:24):
so that's gonna be a problem as well for Webs.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
You first played against the All Black selex and twenty twelve,
scored a try and that taste matured. Califer, What are
your most vivid memories of that day?
Speaker 5 (10:36):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (10:36):
I loved it.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
It was class I think, you know, I'd only just
sort of joined the squad for a year, and I
was sort of I guess you could say I was
probably still a fan make to be honest, you know
that that team, you know, standing the Hacker was unbelieveble atmosphere.
And you know the team we played, you could name
McCaw ma Carter there was. You know, that's probably one
of the greatest All Blacks teams in the long, long time.
(10:57):
Isn't it so very lucky to be involved that? And
I loved every minute it. And we probably were a
bit of rabbit and Headlights probably gave All Blacks too
much respect maybe, And they got a pretty good first half,
and we fought back. I think we scored a thirteen
man lineup, which was a first. I think Gats wanted that,
so he got that. And then I remember we played
All Blacks a couple of years later, and for seventy
(11:20):
two minutes we were winning and actually we all thought
we were actually gonna win the game, and then a
Boden Barrett Golden Boy, chip over the top. You know,
it looks like it's still a bounce unto Lee half
Penny's hand, No, straight into his hand. He scored, and
then it's sort of just opened the floodgates and us
he pulled away.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
But you always love playing your blats because.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
You know they test you in every asset of the game,
whether it's mindset, the physicality, They've got everything.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
You know.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
You know when you play other teams like South Africa,
you know physically you got to match up Australia. You
know they've got great play, but if you match them physically,
you could probably outpower them. New Zealand just seemed to
have it all, and I guess that over the last
couple years they may have lost that physicality battle a
little bit more and South Africa probably overtake him. But
you know, they've still got some world class players with
(12:06):
a lot of talent. You know.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I love Will Jordan.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
I think he's an unbelievable player, just makes things happen.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Rico I only can be anything.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
Really, thirteen probably not his best position, but and then
Damig and Kenzie. He's a box office, isn't he? So
it's going to be exciting again. I think there's gonna
be a lot of tries scored, So yeah, it's gonna
be a fun one.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
So what would be a good outcome for Wiles? Then
it doesn't sound as though you're you know, you're optimistic
that they'll win the game.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
What do you say?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Twenty eight plus the books are offering what would be
a good outcome for Wiles in terms of the way
they compete across the eighty minutes? Not necessary a school
on Alex, but but what you see out there for
eighty minutes, what would be a good outcome?
Speaker 5 (12:44):
Yeah, I think I think you've got to take the
school eye out of the game. I think that's let's
be honest. I can't come on here and just say, yeah,
I think we're going to win, because let's be honest,
we're not gonna win. But what I want to see
is we want to see I want to see aggression
at the breakdown. I honestly, physically, I just want to
see him go after New Zealand. You know that New
Zealand hurt from losing to England. You know us the
(13:04):
worst was ut for you guys. It's like us losing.
You know, no one wants to lose to them, boys
to they, So you just want to see a bit
of fight. You want to see a little bit of
continuity in terms of I like Dan, but they're sticking
with Dan Ebers at ten. I think this new center
partnership can work. How do we get Lewis? We stand
with ball in space because he's the fastest man on
the field. He's got great for Blair Murray, you know,
(13:26):
I think earlier I want to see him control those airs.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
He struggled the last couple of games. We want it.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
If we can win that aerial game or compete in it,
we'll be in the game a bit longer. Because of the
last of games we've lost it. We're just giving teams
such easy ins, and you cannot give the team like
New Zealand innings. So I want to see a lot
of tries. I think we can score three four tries.
I'd be pretty happy with that. And I look at
a bit of identity and and and be a bit
imaginative with some of our startup plays. You know, we
(13:51):
saw England rip the New Zealand open a few times,
so hopefully we can get a few good starters and
the platform is good enough to playoff and yeah, I
do feel like there's gonna be a lot of tries,
but it would be obviously the good result for you.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Guys, just the fun as hum. If we just circle
back to your your career, and it was only very
recently that you officially announced your retirement, as you say,
you know, as recently as the last World Cup. You're
involved in the Welsh see that with the benefit of
a little bit of hindsight, now not a lot, but
a little bit. How do you reflect on your on
your rugby career.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Mate, To be honest, I've got I've really got any
regrets I've I've I've been involved in some really top teams,
whether it's for Wales ex the Chiefs. I won the
Premiership and the European Cup. I was lucky enough to
be win the European Cup for Cardiff. You know, I've
been in around winning teams and I've always had that
mentality and I guess it's just served me well in
the teams. I've always worked hard and I'll.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Put it to it.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
I was never the most you know, amazing rugby player,
but I grafted me and I worked hard. And I
did the simple things. Well, I think over and over
and I guess coaches, you know, they looked that, especially
in big games. And I've hopefully been remembered for the
big moments for Wales and for the Lions. Obviously it's
called as well. So yeah, I like the big moments
(15:09):
and I guess you could probably say I was sort of.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
One of them.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
And the only thing I do regret is not touring
with a straight with Wales to New Zealand. I missed
that series out to have a New York before and
you know, I've done the Wellington sevens back in the
day and that was well, you know what it was like.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Was pretty good.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
So yeah, that's the only the only the only regret
is this not been able to to tall New Zealand,
whether it's for the Lions or Wales. But other than that,
met yeah, I've enjoyed every moment and you know the
best thing about it is my boys five he ended up.
He did get to watch me play, albeit get my
head taken off against Fiji, So.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, no regrets for you're not the even be the
first or the last guy then happen against Fiji. Old
imagine and look if you can make it down here right,
she would absolutely love New Zealand, you know, in a
in a touring scenes And yeah, those Wellington Sevens days
gee though were absolutely iconic. Man, it's been awesome to
catch up. Thank you so much for joining us across
New Zealand and enjoy the game at Cardiff. They too,
(16:07):
all the best to you too, Alex Cuthbert, their former
Welsh international winger and British and Irish Lions winger as well.
These days are rugby pundit and as you can hear,
they're a philias stute analyst of the game. Look, he's realistic,
isn't he. He knows that Wales are not going to
beat the All Blacks tomorrow morning at Cardiff. Look, I
think even the most die hard optimistic of Welsh fans
(16:29):
would accept that. Look it's not absolutely impossible, of course
it's not. But it would be a massive shock, the
shock of this World Cup cycle, without a shadow of
a doubt, if Wales, off the back of what has
been a pretty abject couple of years since that Rugby
World Cup, was somehow able to tip up the All
(16:50):
Blacks tomorrow morning.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live
to News Talk said B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Test of the Year Principality Stadium Card of ten past
four Tomorrow morning, New Zealand time. It's the thirty eighth
meeting between these two dating back to nineteen oh five.
Wales won three of the first four, but the All
Blacks have won the last thirty three Test matches between
the two, dating all the way back to nineteen sixty three.
(00:33):
Matches between the two have been infrequent in recent times.
This is just the fifth meeting since a three Test
series here in New Zealand in twenty sixteen, and it's
the first time the All Blacks have played Wales in
over three years. Great pleasure to welcome into the show
former Welsh winger Alex Cuthbert.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Checking it up as Samuel robiton Dex year over halfway
he's on his own slums into the last trader thing
this defense such as oh and Farrell now who has
fours array. Phillips gets it out too Bigger Kilee, Halfpenny,
Jamie Roberts, Chippey on the outside of hust Cosbert with
him dummies goes to the gup Dika.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
That must be a ship.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Championship to Wales, absolutely fantastic. They kept the best until last,
nothing at all England could do from their own. Twenty
two Wales with the try of the championship and the
try to win the championship a second for Alex Cuthbert
h Wales magnificent.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Here, high excitement there. Alex Cuthbert debut for Wales twenty
eleven went on to earn fifty seven caps for his
national side, scoring sixteen tries including that one, and playing
a pivotal role in the six Nations Grand Slam winning
campaign in twenty twelve and the sixth Nations Championship win
in twenty thirteen. He also toured with the British and
Irish lines to Australia in twenty thirteen, where he scored
(01:59):
a crucial try in the first Test victory over the
Wallabies in Brisbane. At club level, he enjoyed success with
Carl of Exit and Ospryce and officially announced his retirement
in September. He's already started to forge a successful career
in rugby panditry across various platforms. Alex Cuthbert is with US.
(02:19):
Alex thanks for joining us, mate, I'm going to dive
straight in here. What has happened to Welsh rugby in
the two years since the last Rugby World Cup?
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Wow? Good morning and how long have you got mate?
Speaker 5 (02:34):
It's been It's been a bit of a rollercoaster, to
be honest, mate. You know, weirdly, I was actually that
was my last campaign, was the World Cup. So I
got injured in the summer before and I didn't play
a game after that, to be honest, So that was.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
My last campaign.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
And weirdly, we were actually in an all right state,
you know, in terms of obviously Warren Gatton coming in,
we got out the group we know, beat like so Fiji.
We absolutely thunked Australia forty points and you could look
at that squad then and think, hang on better, you know,
there's something to work with. But I think after that
World Cup a lot of boys retired, obviously, like myself
(03:14):
down bigger and when that there were a number of
boys and I think there was just a bit of
some wrong decision in maybe getting rid of us too soon,
maybe not trying to integrate some youngsters. And then we'll
see then a lot of things happening with the union in.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Terms of.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
Budgets and contract situations because we had a number of
strike you know, I was in one where we were
literally just about to pull the plug against England, which
is one of the biggest games in the you know,
in the European fictionalists.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
So yeah, since then.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Mate, it's sort of gone down here and obviously now
they're trying to decide whether we cut the amount of regions.
You know, it's like they're all about trying to get
rid of the team down in West Wales, whether that's
the Ostras or Scarlets. You know, that's pretty much like
trying to say they're going to get rid of the
Highlanders because they're down south. So you know, geographically it
just seems wild, doesn't it. So yeah, a lot of
(04:13):
things up in the air, mate, at the moment, and
it's a lot to take in, you know, especially this
Welsh national team. There's a lot of young players in
there who a lot of this is just happening for
the first time.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So if we look with an optimistic leans, then how
much optimism is there that, you know, having been through
this very challenging two year period, that things can and
will turn around in the next little while or will
it still take a bit of time.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
This is going to be sometime, mate. This is we're
talking a number of years. We're talking near enough an
era in terms of where they put the money. Now,
so do you put you pump your money into these
three regions and hopefully you know, we start correct players,
but it starts on the bottom for me, so like
school level and that's sort of that age grade when
(05:02):
they're getting into sort of like cult rugby and senior
men's rugby, we'll lose and too many kids. So we
lose a lot of kids to England for college and education,
and then obviously then clubs in England pick up those
players and then obviously we've lost a few.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
I likes to fail Manual Boso, he was.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
You know, he's he lives in you know, he's from Cardiff,
should be playing for Wales and he's playing for England.
You know, we're not We're not a nation gifted with
a lot of players, have world class players to lose
to England especially, So yeah, that's going to be a
big focus point in terms of Obviously, firstly it's figuring
(05:41):
out what team they are going to get rid of.
So we are definitely going down to three teams, so
that's the biggest talking point, and and and and trying
to navigate through that because it's it's going to get messy.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Let's be honest.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
You know, there's no one that's just going to say, oh,
I'll put my hand up and be the team to go.
You know, it's going to come to tender and then
we're talking all finances then. But ideally in the future,
I guess we're going to get to a point in
two years where hopefully our product is good enough to
maybe move leagues or something like that. That's what's been banded around.
But for me, I think we need to put our
money into our into our infrastructure lower down and the
(06:15):
players that we're losing, especially the younger ages, and whether
we look to the World Cup in six years and
ten years, maybe that might be the right answer and
maybe not give up on this team now in the
next World Cup, but you know, put the resources in
the in the areas where we're going to start to
see some benefit, whether it is five, six, seven, eight
years time.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
It is such a challenging and interesting time for Welsh rugby.
How is new Welsh head coach Steve Tandy regarded.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
Yeah, well, I thought as Ricker sort of speaks to himself,
for I think, you know, we went to As, he's
done his trade in Wales. Then he went out and
went to the Waratas. I think, you know, that's the
best thing for a young coaches, going out and exploring
different experiences. It opens your eyes because when you end
up being in a country or coaching in a place
for a long period of time. Even as a player,
(07:04):
I remember when I was in Wales and you feel
like that's the boor and end, or then I moved
away and you're like, well, hang on a minute, let's
see the game completely different. So I think Steve's done that,
you know, And then he went to Scotland and he
definitely improved their defense. Albeit you know, we're seeing this
leaking a little bit at the moment, isn't it. But
I think he's the right man because he's welsh Man's Welsh,
(07:25):
He's very passionate. He's a guy that's going to feel
the hurt of the nation in terms of you know,
being twelve in the world is absolutely insane when you
think about it. Really where we were even five, six,
seven years ago, we were actually weirdly world number one
for a week, so, you know, not that long ago.
So yeah, I think he's the right man. He's got
(07:45):
some young coaches as well. You know, they're going to
earn their trade and I guess we will figure out
in the next eighteen months really if that group are
really going to be good enough. But the end of
the day, mate, you're only as good as what you've
got to deal with, isn't it in terms of your
player pool and the quality of players. And if you
look at that Welsh squad, the good rubber play, but
(08:07):
I'd probably say we only got two three world class
rubber players. The rest are good rugby players, but are
they up to international level at the moment. No, But
you can sort of forgive some of them with obviously
the excuses over the last couple of years. But it's
going to get to the point where Steve's going to
have quite a bit of time with these guys and
if we don't see any I guess identity or a
(08:29):
bit of fight in these games, we're just going to
get further and further behind. In the likes of Arzentina,
who are absolutely flying, you know, you obviously maybe they're
going through a bit of a transition period at the moment.
Australia not sure where they are, but you know, South
Africa seemed to be just flying further and further ahead,
and we don't want that gap to get bigger because
the whole point of the new restruction of this league
(08:51):
is that we get closer together and it's more competitive,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Well, let's talk about this game. Do the All Blacks
feel in any way vulnerable to you given what happened
at twicken them a week ago?
Speaker 5 (09:03):
No, not all. I'll be honest. That game from a
point of view where they're are. You look at the
stats and you think, how are they lost by that much?
So that I don't think they're far off it, But
looking at their team this weekend, it's very It's quite mismatch,
isn't it for you? I don't know what you guys
think about it, but there's a lot of players that
(09:23):
haven't played a lot of minutes together, a lot of
obviously top pass players, don't get me wrong, you know,
likes of like Rico Irony and Antiltte Brown and these
sort of guys who don't get it wrong. They probably
just love a night out in Cardiff and they go
well every time they come here, don't they.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
So you know, I don't think there's any pressure on them.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
The bookies have got Wales plus twenty eight, you know
that they're obviously expecting to win pretty well. But whether
Wales can sort of rattle certain players, you know, they
haven't had a lot of minutes. They don't seem to
be quite on the money babies, you know, in terms
of what they're after. Defensively they look quite weak and
you know, especially off set peace. You know how England
sort of seem to really get some games through there.
(10:03):
So Wales Matt Schaer at the backs coach, is very
good at start a place. So if Whes can get
a little bit of parody in the line out and
the scrum, Whales will be quite dangerous because we have
got some extract to players, but we just seem to
we lose control when we're not winning the front foot
game line. And the New Zealand are pretty good defensively
as well, and they're very good New Zealand their defensive lineup,
(10:24):
so that's gonna be a problem as well for Webs.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
You first played against the All Black selex and twenty twelve,
scored a try and that taste matured. Califer, What are
your most vivid memories of that day?
Speaker 5 (10:36):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (10:36):
I loved it.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
It was class I think, you know, I'd only just
sort of joined the squad for a year, and I
was sort of I guess you could say I was
probably still a fan make to be honest, you know
that that team, you know, standing the Hacker was unbelieveble atmosphere.
And you know the team we played, you could name
McCaw ma Carter there was. You know, that's probably one
of the greatest All Blacks teams in the long, long time.
(10:57):
Isn't it so very lucky to be involved that? And
I loved every minute it. And we probably were a
bit of rabbit and Headlights probably gave All Blacks too
much respect maybe, And they got a pretty good first half,
and we fought back. I think we scored a thirteen
man lineup, which was a first. I think Gats wanted that,
so he got that. And then I remember we played
All Blacks a couple of years later, and for seventy
(11:20):
two minutes we were winning and actually we all thought
we were actually gonna win the game, and then a
Boden Barrett Golden Boy, chip over the top. You know,
it looks like it's still a bounce unto Lee half
Penny's hand, No, straight into his hand. He scored, and
then it's sort of just opened the floodgates and us
he pulled away.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
But you always love playing your blats because.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
You know they test you in every asset of the game,
whether it's mindset, the physicality, They've got everything.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
You know.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
You know when you play other teams like South Africa,
you know physically you got to match up Australia. You
know they've got great play, but if you match them physically,
you could probably outpower them. New Zealand just seemed to
have it all, and I guess that over the last
couple years they may have lost that physicality battle a
little bit more and South Africa probably overtake him. But
you know, they've still got some world class players with
(12:06):
a lot of talent. You know.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I love Will Jordan.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
I think he's an unbelievable player, just makes things happen.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Rico I only can be anything.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
Really, thirteen probably not his best position, but and then
Damig and Kenzie. He's a box office, isn't he? So
it's going to be exciting again. I think there's gonna
be a lot of tries scored, So yeah, it's gonna
be a fun one.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
So what would be a good outcome for Wiles? Then
it doesn't sound as though you're you know, you're optimistic
that they'll win the game.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
What do you say?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Twenty eight plus the books are offering what would be
a good outcome for Wiles in terms of the way
they compete across the eighty minutes? Not necessary a school
on Alex, but but what you see out there for
eighty minutes, what would be a good outcome?
Speaker 5 (12:44):
Yeah, I think I think you've got to take the
school eye out of the game. I think that's let's
be honest. I can't come on here and just say, yeah,
I think we're going to win, because let's be honest,
we're not gonna win. But what I want to see
is we want to see I want to see aggression
at the breakdown. I honestly, physically, I just want to
see him go after New Zealand. You know that New
Zealand hurt from losing to England. You know us the
(13:04):
worst was ut for you guys. It's like us losing.
You know, no one wants to lose to them, boys
to they, So you just want to see a bit
of fight. You want to see a little bit of
continuity in terms of I like Dan, but they're sticking
with Dan Ebers at ten. I think this new center
partnership can work. How do we get Lewis? We stand
with ball in space because he's the fastest man on
the field. He's got great for Blair Murray, you know,
(13:26):
I think earlier I want to see him control those airs.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
He struggled the last couple of games. We want it.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
If we can win that aerial game or compete in it,
we'll be in the game a bit longer. Because of the
last of games we've lost it. We're just giving teams
such easy ins, and you cannot give the team like
New Zealand innings. So I want to see a lot
of tries. I think we can score three four tries.
I'd be pretty happy with that. And I look at
a bit of identity and and and be a bit
imaginative with some of our startup plays. You know, we
(13:51):
saw England rip the New Zealand open a few times,
so hopefully we can get a few good starters and
the platform is good enough to playoff and yeah, I
do feel like there's gonna be a lot of tries,
but it would be obviously the good result for you.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Guys, just the fun as hum. If we just circle
back to your your career, and it was only very
recently that you officially announced your retirement, as you say,
you know, as recently as the last World Cup. You're
involved in the Welsh see that with the benefit of
a little bit of hindsight, now not a lot, but
a little bit. How do you reflect on your on
your rugby career.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Mate, To be honest, I've got I've really got any
regrets I've I've I've been involved in some really top teams,
whether it's for Wales ex the Chiefs. I won the
Premiership and the European Cup. I was lucky enough to
be win the European Cup for Cardiff. You know, I've
been in around winning teams and I've always had that
mentality and I guess it's just served me well in
the teams. I've always worked hard and I'll.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Put it to it.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
I was never the most you know, amazing rugby player,
but I grafted me and I worked hard. And I
did the simple things. Well, I think over and over
and I guess coaches, you know, they looked that, especially
in big games. And I've hopefully been remembered for the
big moments for Wales and for the Lions. Obviously it's
called as well. So yeah, I like the big moments
(15:09):
and I guess you could probably say I was sort of.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
One of them.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
And the only thing I do regret is not touring
with a straight with Wales to New Zealand. I missed
that series out to have a New York before and
you know, I've done the Wellington sevens back in the
day and that was well, you know what it was like.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Was pretty good.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
So yeah, that's the only the only the only regret
is this not been able to to tall New Zealand,
whether it's for the Lions or Wales. But other than that,
met yeah, I've enjoyed every moment and you know the
best thing about it is my boys five he ended up.
He did get to watch me play, albeit get my
head taken off against Fiji, So.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, no regrets for you're not the even be the
first or the last guy then happen against Fiji. Old
imagine and look if you can make it down here right,
she would absolutely love New Zealand, you know, in a
in a touring scenes And yeah, those Wellington Sevens days
gee though were absolutely iconic. Man, it's been awesome to
catch up. Thank you so much for joining us across
New Zealand and enjoy the game at Cardiff. They too,
(16:07):
all the best to you too, Alex Cuthbert, their former
Welsh international winger and British and Irish Lions winger as well.
These days are rugby pundit and as you can hear,
they're a philias stute analyst of the game. Look, he's realistic,
isn't he. He knows that Wales are not going to
beat the All Blacks tomorrow morning at Cardiff. Look, I
think even the most die hard optimistic of Welsh fans
(16:29):
would accept that. Look it's not absolutely impossible, of course
it's not. But it would be a massive shock, the
shock of this World Cup cycle, without a shadow of
a doubt, if Wales, off the back of what has
been a pretty abject couple of years since that Rugby
World Cup, was somehow able to tip up the All
(16:50):
Blacks tomorrow morning.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live
to News Talk said B weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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