November 22, 2025 • 9 mins
Mixed emotions from All Blacks assistant coach Jason Holland after his final game with the national side - a 52-26 drubbing of Wales in Cardiff.
Holland says it's time to move on, but he'll miss the team environment.
He joined Piney to look back on his career.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Edb buying I'd look be ranging around now, takes on
the line, gets around them, buying a knocker one arm,
Pat Soar, Rika Yoani all left hand side.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
And Kayle Clark.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We'll get that sickend.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
After all and the seventh of the day for the
All Blacks fifty two twenty six, including a perfect eight
from eight from the kicking tea for Damien McKenzie, highest
All Black score of the year ten wins from thirteen
in twenty twenty five. All Blacks assistant coach Jason Holland
is with us from Cardiff. Jason, thanks for taking the
call as always. How do you evaluate the final All
(00:47):
Blacks performance of the year.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Oh ye, look, it was mostly important to us that
we put together a performance tonight.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
So yeah, generally, you know, pretty happy.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I think we you know, we scored some good tries
and we played some good foot at times and you know,
really put a really tenacious Welsh him away in the
end after after they came pretty hard early. But you know,
I think we're a bit more accurate than we had
been at times this season, which meant we could hold
on to the ball and be confident to hold the
ball and get to whats and score some tries. So
(01:19):
we're yeah, we just wanted to put a put a
performance together that we were happy with and what we'd
sort of worked at during the week. There's a lot
of things we trained pretty hard to get and we
got tonight.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Did you sense energy from players who perhaps have had
limited opportunities on the tour before tonight?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah, and that was all you know, you'd expect that,
wouldn't you know?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
We had We had young guys bring the energy, but
we also had guys, you know, especially the midfield, you know,
the older guys who played ady odd tests who were
getting their opportunity and you know, good professionals who were
always going to bring that energy and performance. So it
was a good mix. You know, had the younger a
couple of younger boys getting opportunities. And but you know,
it's easy when you don't get a game of forty
(02:00):
for three or four weeks to make some silly errors
and that sort of thing. And I thought in general
we were able to build some pressure, especially the back
end of going to that second half and put the
wash away so.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah, it's been a good week for energy.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
The boys have been good and these guys will always
always front up on the all black jersey when they
get during the week, you know, when they get an opportunity.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Was the hurt of last week used as as fuel
in a conscious sense this week.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
In a way? I don't know if you need to
really use it.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
You know, we were, you know, we're boys are obviously
really disappointed with the last week, and I think just naturally,
you know, as coaches, you didn't have to use it,
you know, because naturally the boys are hurting, and so
they were. They were desperate to, you know, come Tuesday
morning last week to try really hard for the week
and get things right. And yeah, for the most part
(02:54):
we saw the saw how that turned out tonight.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
You can say that just four penalties in the entire
game today. How much of a focus was discipline in
your prep for this one?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Yeah, there's there's always a big focus.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
The funny thing about it is that maybe sometimes media
and that don't see is you know that if you
hold onto the ball and you get your tech going, well,
you get penalties. And I think it's a big part
of it that we held onto the ball pretty well
for most parts in the Welsh were we're having to
give away penalties, you know, to slow down the attack
and that happens both sides of the ball.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
So you know, we won the year a bit more tonight.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You know, I thought Will Jordan was outstanding in the air,
which meant we had the ball a bit more and
that's what That's what discipline looks like. Sometimes that gives
the penalties around possessions. So yeah, we're really happy with that.
We were smart times. Allison's got us going pretty good
in our DA around our discipline and it's been on
side and it sort of helps helps METHRII doesn't it
(03:56):
that the oposition doesn't get into your twenty two and
then you get opportunities to kicking them in twenty two
and get your game.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Gun and a yeah, they conceive the fourteen penalties plus
the yellow cards of course. So absolutely a guy you've
had a lot to do with. How do I reckon
he went today? And what might his all black's future
look like?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Oh? His future is clearly clearly massive. You know he's
he's been absolute champion on this tour.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Obviously, you know he's got the mack and body in
front of him for the first three games. And he's
set the boys up by in our training weeks absolutely
brilliantly by being playing exactly where the opposition we're going
to play on the weekend.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
And for him to get his opportunity, you know, was
awesome for him.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
And he's a great talent fifteen ten, you know, and
you saw what he can do. We'll just try a
getting off that big, banging off that right foot and
offend and those are the great things that when Rubes
is getting all the simple parts in this game right,
then you see the magic so mass, the future mass
of future and there's no doubt that he'll.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Work hard for it. There's not that many people that
work harder than Rubes.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
And this time last year, Fabian Holland wasn't even an
All Black. He's played all but one of your thirteen
tests as year. He's just been named World Rugby's Breakthrough
Player of the Year. How do you assess his development
as an All Black.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
It's got to be it's got to be put into
some sort of movie. I reckon the way, you know,
the yeah, growing up as a kid in the Netherlands
and and then coming out on you know, those last
couple years of school.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
It's pretty phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
And again, he's just a good man who works hard
and he's obviously massively talented.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
And some of his worker in the line out is
you know, right up there.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
So there's been some good stories like that day around
some of the young fellows, you know, and then there's
there's a good for young fellows that are that are
doing some good things and readilar kick on.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
So it's it's really encouraging you.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
We're just on that. Forty five players have worn the
Black jersey this year. Some of that's through necessity with injuries,
et cetera, but forty five players have played for the
All Blacks this year. How do you engauge the depth
that you've built?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Look, well, I know Ray Ray talks a lot about
being four deep in every position, you know, and we
feel like we feel like, you know, we're getting there,
you know, And and lots of guys have had exposure
and even if it's not necessarily exposure in test matches,
it's it's been on a tour like this or you know,
in places like Argentina and and understanding and all that
(06:24):
sort of adds to your ability to be able to
perform under pressure. So they're all getting good time and
as you've seen with some of them. You know, we
had Wally Satiti come into it last year and we
know where he's got to and Fabes and Rubes and
you talk around those sorts of guys. It's yeah, it's
it's it's just exciting where they can get to and
and there was another year under the belt where they
(06:45):
where they can take it to.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
Are you able to appraise the year as a whole
or is it a bit early for that.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, it's probably not always a big picture pinety without
holding me to anything, it's I think it's a really
great moments in our season.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
There's some great things in it. But I think.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
We're you know, we'd we'd accept and challenge ourselves and
our consistency of of doing things, you know, doing things
right for longer, and that's going to be a big,
big work on going forward.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
You know, we play some good footy and then we make.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Silly eras or or or take the pressure off us,
you know, off the opposition and put them back on
to us. So you know, whether that school set or
a little bit of the way that you know, we
lose the year a lot. We were at times during
the season, which is turning games. There's definitely things that
where this team needs to be better, But there's massive
(07:38):
potential because you see such good parts of the game
for so long. But we're just in a test mench
that won't be good enough if you're not executing or smart,
or or kicking well or catching.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Well under pressure.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So the beauty about this group is and and and
probably internally the we'll challenge each other pretty hard, you know.
So that's that bodes well for for the next couple
of years.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
And now you're remote today as you now prepare to
step away from the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Uh yeah, Look, it's been just just chatting to the
boys and just told them of how much I love
the All Blacks and always having, always will. And it's
been it's just it's been awesome tour. Actually we've had
We've had a good bit of fun and connect to
the world. They're all great men. And yeah, I'm mixt
(08:31):
emotions a little bit, you know, I'm I'm pretty uh
pretty confident that you know, it's time for me to
move on. But by the same token of from joyed
and respect these people in this environment massively.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
And so we'll have a.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Good night tonight, no doubt, and talk and tell a
few yards and talk about of rubbish and.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
And we'll move on.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Got your next move sorted out?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
No, not yet, not yet.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I always said that I didn't want to really talk
about it until I make sure I gave everything to
the next couple of weeks of this tour.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
So no, I don't know you've got a job for me, mate.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Oh well, I mean I'll tell you what punditry you'd
fit nicely into it. Jas Absolutely, I think you've got
a lot more to I think you've got a lot
more to offer the coaching side of things before you
move to the media with me, mate, But.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
From what I know of your salary, I might take
it now.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Wow, Jason, Joy your night, Thanks for chatting. Appreciate your
accessibility across the year.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Thanks fining cheers mate.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
No, thank you, Jason. Jason Holland there for the last
time as an All Black's assistant coach, joining us on
weekend Sport. We wait to see what the future holds
for me. He'll pop up somewhere. He is bone deep
when it comes to rugby, absolutely loves the game. I've
got no idea what happened inside the All Blacks camp
that has led to him exiting, but he will pop
(09:47):
up somewhere without a shadow of a doubt in a
coaching sense.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk Said Be weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Edb buying I'd look be ranging around now, takes on
the line, gets around them, buying a knocker one arm,
Pat Soar, Rika Yoani all left hand side.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
And Kayle Clark.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We'll get that sickend.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
After all and the seventh of the day for the
All Blacks fifty two twenty six, including a perfect eight
from eight from the kicking tea for Damien McKenzie, highest
All Black score of the year ten wins from thirteen
in twenty twenty five. All Blacks assistant coach Jason Holland
is with us from Cardiff. Jason, thanks for taking the
call as always. How do you evaluate the final All
(00:47):
Blacks performance of the year.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Oh ye, look, it was mostly important to us that
we put together a performance tonight.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
So yeah, generally, you know, pretty happy.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I think we you know, we scored some good tries
and we played some good foot at times and you know,
really put a really tenacious Welsh him away in the
end after after they came pretty hard early. But you know,
I think we're a bit more accurate than we had
been at times this season, which meant we could hold
on to the ball and be confident to hold the
ball and get to whats and score some tries. So
(01:19):
we're yeah, we just wanted to put a put a
performance together that we were happy with and what we'd
sort of worked at during the week. There's a lot
of things we trained pretty hard to get and we
got tonight.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Did you sense energy from players who perhaps have had
limited opportunities on the tour before tonight?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah, and that was all you know, you'd expect that,
wouldn't you know?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
We had We had young guys bring the energy, but
we also had guys, you know, especially the midfield, you know,
the older guys who played ady odd tests who were
getting their opportunity and you know, good professionals who were
always going to bring that energy and performance. So it
was a good mix. You know, had the younger a
couple of younger boys getting opportunities. And but you know,
it's easy when you don't get a game of forty
(02:00):
for three or four weeks to make some silly errors
and that sort of thing. And I thought in general
we were able to build some pressure, especially the back
end of going to that second half and put the
wash away so.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yeah, it's been a good week for energy.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
The boys have been good and these guys will always
always front up on the all black jersey when they
get during the week, you know, when they get an opportunity.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Was the hurt of last week used as as fuel
in a conscious sense this week.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
In a way? I don't know if you need to
really use it.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
You know, we were, you know, we're boys are obviously
really disappointed with the last week, and I think just naturally,
you know, as coaches, you didn't have to use it,
you know, because naturally the boys are hurting, and so
they were. They were desperate to, you know, come Tuesday
morning last week to try really hard for the week
and get things right. And yeah, for the most part
(02:54):
we saw the saw how that turned out tonight.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
You can say that just four penalties in the entire
game today. How much of a focus was discipline in
your prep for this one?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Yeah, there's there's always a big focus.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
The funny thing about it is that maybe sometimes media
and that don't see is you know that if you
hold onto the ball and you get your tech going, well,
you get penalties. And I think it's a big part
of it that we held onto the ball pretty well
for most parts in the Welsh were we're having to
give away penalties, you know, to slow down the attack
and that happens both sides of the ball.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
So you know, we won the year a bit more tonight.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You know, I thought Will Jordan was outstanding in the air,
which meant we had the ball a bit more and
that's what That's what discipline looks like. Sometimes that gives
the penalties around possessions. So yeah, we're really happy with that.
We were smart times. Allison's got us going pretty good
in our DA around our discipline and it's been on
side and it sort of helps helps METHRII doesn't it
(03:56):
that the oposition doesn't get into your twenty two and
then you get opportunities to kicking them in twenty two
and get your game.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Gun and a yeah, they conceive the fourteen penalties plus
the yellow cards of course. So absolutely a guy you've
had a lot to do with. How do I reckon
he went today? And what might his all black's future
look like?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Oh? His future is clearly clearly massive. You know he's
he's been absolute champion on this tour.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Obviously, you know he's got the mack and body in
front of him for the first three games. And he's
set the boys up by in our training weeks absolutely
brilliantly by being playing exactly where the opposition we're going
to play on the weekend.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
And for him to get his opportunity, you know, was
awesome for him.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
And he's a great talent fifteen ten, you know, and
you saw what he can do. We'll just try a
getting off that big, banging off that right foot and
offend and those are the great things that when Rubes
is getting all the simple parts in this game right,
then you see the magic so mass, the future mass
of future and there's no doubt that he'll.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Work hard for it. There's not that many people that
work harder than Rubes.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
And this time last year, Fabian Holland wasn't even an
All Black. He's played all but one of your thirteen
tests as year. He's just been named World Rugby's Breakthrough
Player of the Year. How do you assess his development
as an All Black.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
It's got to be it's got to be put into
some sort of movie. I reckon the way, you know,
the yeah, growing up as a kid in the Netherlands
and and then coming out on you know, those last
couple years of school.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
It's pretty phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
And again, he's just a good man who works hard
and he's obviously massively talented.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
And some of his worker in the line out is
you know, right up there.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
So there's been some good stories like that day around
some of the young fellows, you know, and then there's
there's a good for young fellows that are that are
doing some good things and readilar kick on.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
So it's it's really encouraging you.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
We're just on that. Forty five players have worn the
Black jersey this year. Some of that's through necessity with injuries,
et cetera, but forty five players have played for the
All Blacks this year. How do you engauge the depth
that you've built?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Look, well, I know Ray Ray talks a lot about
being four deep in every position, you know, and we
feel like we feel like, you know, we're getting there,
you know, And and lots of guys have had exposure
and even if it's not necessarily exposure in test matches,
it's it's been on a tour like this or you know,
in places like Argentina and and understanding and all that
(06:24):
sort of adds to your ability to be able to
perform under pressure. So they're all getting good time and
as you've seen with some of them. You know, we
had Wally Satiti come into it last year and we
know where he's got to and Fabes and Rubes and
you talk around those sorts of guys. It's yeah, it's
it's it's just exciting where they can get to and
and there was another year under the belt where they
(06:45):
where they can take it to.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
Are you able to appraise the year as a whole
or is it a bit early for that.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, it's probably not always a big picture pinety without
holding me to anything, it's I think it's a really
great moments in our season.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
There's some great things in it. But I think.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
We're you know, we'd we'd accept and challenge ourselves and
our consistency of of doing things, you know, doing things
right for longer, and that's going to be a big,
big work on going forward.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
You know, we play some good footy and then we make.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Silly eras or or or take the pressure off us,
you know, off the opposition and put them back on
to us. So you know, whether that school set or
a little bit of the way that you know, we
lose the year a lot. We were at times during
the season, which is turning games. There's definitely things that
where this team needs to be better, But there's massive
(07:38):
potential because you see such good parts of the game
for so long. But we're just in a test mench
that won't be good enough if you're not executing or smart,
or or kicking well or catching.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Well under pressure.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So the beauty about this group is and and and
probably internally the we'll challenge each other pretty hard, you know.
So that's that bodes well for for the next couple
of years.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
And now you're remote today as you now prepare to
step away from the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Uh yeah, Look, it's been just just chatting to the
boys and just told them of how much I love
the All Blacks and always having, always will. And it's
been it's just it's been awesome tour. Actually we've had
We've had a good bit of fun and connect to
the world. They're all great men. And yeah, I'm mixt
(08:31):
emotions a little bit, you know, I'm I'm pretty uh
pretty confident that you know, it's time for me to
move on. But by the same token of from joyed
and respect these people in this environment massively.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
And so we'll have a.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Good night tonight, no doubt, and talk and tell a
few yards and talk about of rubbish and.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
And we'll move on.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Got your next move sorted out?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
No, not yet, not yet.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I always said that I didn't want to really talk
about it until I make sure I gave everything to
the next couple of weeks of this tour.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
So no, I don't know you've got a job for me, mate.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Oh well, I mean I'll tell you what punditry you'd
fit nicely into it. Jas Absolutely, I think you've got
a lot more to I think you've got a lot
more to offer the coaching side of things before you
move to the media with me, mate, But.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
From what I know of your salary, I might take
it now.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Wow, Jason, Joy your night, Thanks for chatting. Appreciate your
accessibility across the year.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Thanks fining cheers mate.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
No, thank you, Jason. Jason Holland there for the last
time as an All Black's assistant coach, joining us on
weekend Sport. We wait to see what the future holds
for me. He'll pop up somewhere. He is bone deep
when it comes to rugby, absolutely loves the game. I've
got no idea what happened inside the All Blacks camp
that has led to him exiting, but he will pop
(09:47):
up somewhere without a shadow of a doubt in a
coaching sense.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to News Talk Said Be weekends from midday, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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