December 13, 2025 • 11 mins
Australia cruised to an emphatic eight-wicket win over England in the day-night second Ashes Test in Brisbane on Sunday for an ominous 2-0 lead in the series.
Set a paltry target of 65 for victory, Australia captain Steve Smith pulled Gus Atkinson for a huge six over square leg to get the job done in style.
BBC chief cricket commentator Jonathan Agnew joined Piney to discuss.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Australia have a two meal lead in the Ashes after
eight wicket victories in both Perth and Brisbane, needing just
six of the ten scheduled days.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Smith takes it on.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Can he win him with as six?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Smash it away?
Speaker 5 (00:29):
I'm quite raise his hands.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
He's pumped. The captain.
Speaker 5 (00:34):
Clears the right to win the Test mats Australia. They
go ahead two nearly one of the most hype series
in the history of this fantastic Ashes in Australia dominating
England again Nate wicket when.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
So the series moves to Adelaide for the Third Test
starting on Wednesday. I think I said Thursday, but Wednesday
is day one of the Third Test and the Boxing
Day Test at the MCG and the fifth and final
Test in Sydney in early January. It's a huge pleasure
to welcome to the show BBC Chief cricket commentator, former
England fast bowler and one of the world's most respected
(01:13):
cricket voices, Jonathan Agnew. Jonathan, thank you for joining us.
I read your excellent BBC column on Monday and you
wrote to me the bears ball message is dead. There
has been a realization by England that the way in
which they play their Test cricket must be altered. So
the question is do you think they will alter it?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
That is the one hundred thousand dollar question. Thank you
homing on your program. By the way, it's nice to
be on. Well, we will will find out, won't we.
You know, that's the question. I mean, I think you
can call it bass ball, the way they've been playing
and when when Brendan mcculluman and Ben Stokes first got
together four years ago, there was a job to be done,
(01:57):
and that way of clearing people's minds, the player's minds,
and making them be more positive to enjoy their cricket
again after a terrible run in which they won any
one of seventeen Test matches, that was essential and he
put smiles on people's faces and they went out and
enjoyed their cricket and they beat They beat some decent opposition.
They took the opposition a bit by surprise. But I
think people who is gonna sound a bit arrogant, but
(02:21):
I think you know, there are a lot of people
who follow the game of cricket. You know, at this
sort of level, was saying this is unsustainable. You know,
you can't keep playing, you can't keep playing that. So
they were losing games of cricket that they that they
should have won, and so they had you know, there
has been this idea of just just throttling back, you know,
just play with some common sense which has been lacking
at times in the game. And the opposition were getting
(02:44):
wise to what they were doing. They weren't taken by
surprise anymore. The opposition got better India and then of
course Australia and they lost a Test match at the
Oval last year they absolutely committed suicide and a match
they should have won WHI should have won them the series,
which they failed to do. They leveled the series and
that was it. And then you see the way they
played in person again for much of the game in Brisbane.
(03:07):
You know, it's just it is, it is an unsustainable
way of playing Test cricket. And you'll you'll get you'll
get lucky once or twice, but not not anymore because
people know what's coming. The bowlers know what to do
against them is hanging board outside the off stump and
wait for a mad cap drive and off goes the
next one. So I was very interested to see what
(03:29):
they come up with in Adelaide. But after the few
days they've had up there enjoying the beaches of Noosa,
I suggest they'd better come out and play a pretty
good game because if not, they're going to be in
for a hiding in the press.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Well, I've got there down as a list of or
one of my list of things to ask you. There's
been a lot of talk about England spending time on
the beach in Noosa. Well, downtime is important. Pretty hard
sell for England cricket fans, isn't it when you're too
n all down on the ashes.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
I think it's a very very hard salem.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
And part of the mindset now is that a ten
day break between tests is a rest, But actually what
used to be ten day break between tests was the
opportunity to go off and play game of cricket. And
in this instance they would gone to someone like Port
Pirie in South Australia or the Adelaide tests that they'd
played a country eleven. Joe Ruthey have gone, You've got
(04:18):
one hundred in the test match, played very nicely others
would have played. Some of the players who didn't play
in the Test would have batted and got some runs hopefully,
and then they were settled down and picked a team
that was in form. So so ten day breaks between
Test matches are not new. They were just used in
different ways. They were used. They were used to play
(04:39):
cricket on a cricket tour. That doesn't sound like rocket science,
does it. But instead they sort of used this as
an excuse. Now, you do need a break, you do
need breaks. They've played six days of Test cricket. You know,
does that constitute needing a break. I also think that
you you earn. You earn days off like that, like
(05:05):
a sort of a holiday and do so you earn it,
And I don't think you earn it when you're too
kneeled down after six days of cricket and when you've
got three matches left and you have to win all
of them if you're to win the ashes. So anyway, look,
I think we've all had our say about the about
the preparation.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
This is what they've chosen to do.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
They've chosen to ignore everybody who said this can't be right,
and who knows they might have a miracle. They might,
they might win the next three Test matches, win the
ashes and stick a finger up. Well fair enough, but
they're gonna have to play a damn site better than
they have done so far and show a massive change
in attitude to what they've been showing in the last
the last year or so. All all of those things
(05:42):
have to change because if they don't, if they lose
an Adelaide after all this, you know, for frolicking round
in in Noosa, then I think it will hit the fan.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
You interview in England captain Ben Stokes after both Test
of feats and you write that he was very different
after the second Test in Brisbane than he was after
the first Test in Perth. Can you just explain the
difference that you saw.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, in in Perth, I mean he had just come
off the field in front of fifty thousand people and
they'd had a hiding and they'd lost the game in
two days.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
And he was angry. So you know, I don't I
don't mind him being angry at all. Is what every
right to be angry.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
So it was it was a you know, it was
a very testy interview, which is fine.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
You know, he walks off the field and he's got
to talk to me.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Well, that's no one wants to that, particularly particularly when
he had that sort of treatment in front of fifty thousand.
But the second one, he clearly had things that he
wanted to say. He clearly had stuff about you know,
no no week players in our team and that you know,
these are things that he wanted to say, and that
he was going to go away, They're gonna have conversations
and all that sort of stuff. Now, whether that I say, well,
(06:51):
we'll wait and see whether that's happened, whether that was
just putting a harder edge to their days off in
New Southern Yes, we're going to go and have fun,
but by the same token but also going to be
rooting out these issues. Well, I say, we'll just have
to wait and see. You know, they arrive at Adelaide
on Saturday, they're going to have their usual three days
(07:11):
preparation going into that Test match.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
They better perform.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
They better performed, And I think that Stokes, that reality
and that realization hit Stokes before the end of that
Brisbane Test, which is why he changed his changed his
tone quite so significantly. You know, they know, they know
if they slip up anymore. Well, jobs and careers are
on the line, of course, as they should be, and
(07:36):
there's not been nearly enough accountability over these last four
years for players who have failed. And and that's another
thing that has to change. If you look at the
if you look at the England squad, apart from Oli
Pope batting at three, there is nobody breathing down anybody,
any batsman's necks, dops, haven't got any other replacements four, five,
(07:58):
six seven. Wicket keeper well, he's got Oli Pope maybe,
but there's no one. I think there's no reserve wiket
keeper as such. There is no pressure on places and
that again for me, is part of the issue. You know,
you have to feel that there is competition for places.
That's a good thing as a healthy team environment, and
there isn't that. There isn't that environment in the England team.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Is the general feeling Jonathan that Brendan McCullum and Bean
Stokes are the right meant to be leading England or
will that assessment have to wait until after this series?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah? I think a judgment day will come at the
end of the series. You know, they are very similar
and often in my experiences it's a good thing to
have two different people as captain and coach, two kind
of different mentalities. You know, I'm thinking Andrew Spouse and
Andy Flower who on the ashes here last time, you know,
fifteen years ago. They were very different Michael Vaughan, Duncan Fletcher,
(08:51):
two very different characters, whereas Stokes and McCullum are actually
very much cut from the same cloth. And the problem
with that is that while they might say we don't
need this practice, we don't need to do this, we
need to do that, there are players in their squad,
I believe who actually do need a bit of help.
They do need to play some games, They do need
(09:12):
to get their head in order. They can't just go
out like Brandon McCallum used to do. G just go
out and play. And that's the way that Ben Stokes
does too, just goes out and plays. Well, you know,
lucky them.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Not everyone.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Not everyone's ass as clear minded as that or as
relaxed as that. You know, people, there are others there
who need a completely different approach and I just don't
think that they they're being allowed to have that.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Are Australia just a bit of tiss Cricket team than
England right now? Is that part of us as well?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
No, they're not England. England could have won both matches. No,
they're lot better. And that's what's again bitterly disappointing English
that have won in Perth. There has been one nil
going to the GAB but all sorts of issues going
on there in the Australian camp. You know, there's all
sorts of stuff we need to kick off there with
with Kwaja and who's fit, who isn't fit and Nathan
(10:00):
Laron being left out and being grumpy all these things.
You know, these things would start would have started to unravel,
but they won. You know, they won the game again
to up sitting very pretty with a team that's well,
I mean they're bowling attack. Take Mitchell Stark out. It
is one of the weakest Australian bowling attacks so I've seen.
And it's not being insulting, it's just it's just true.
(10:23):
I mean, you know Dogget and Niezer, you know, compare
that Tote Hazelwood and Cummins and you got Line in
there as well, and they'll well Hazel won't be back,
but comings we'll be back at Adelaide and Line so
it's going to be a much stronger side of the
England up against Adelaide.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Just the funnish thing. Can we circle back to the
one hundred thousand dollars question we started with, Will England change?
Can you see them changing? Can you see things changing
in the series from Adelaide onwards?
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Well, if they're ever going to, it's going to be
next week, because if they don't, it's too late, and
that'll be that, and then all the recriminations and the
inquests and inquiries and everything else will will start to
take place.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
So it's it's up to them. This is the way
they've chosen to do it.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I think everyone, you know, all all also kind of
blue in the face from saying stuff. You know, they're
not interested in what we have to say. You know,
you get called has beens and that's how it used
to be in the old days and all that sort
of stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Okay, well, let's see, let's see how.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Your modern method works, because it's going to have to
work next week.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
It's been a great pleasure chatting with you, Jonathan. Thank
you so much for tacking the time to join us
across New Zealand. That's the pleasure now It's a pleasure
chatting to you, Jonathan. Thank you so much. Jonathan Agne.
What a wonderful guy, by the way, what a voice
and what a depth of cricket knowledge. I could listen
to Jonathan Egg you talk about cricket all day.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to news talks it'd be weekends from mid day, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine
from Newstalks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Australia have a two meal lead in the Ashes after
eight wicket victories in both Perth and Brisbane, needing just
six of the ten scheduled days.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Smith takes it on.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Can he win him with as six?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Smash it away?
Speaker 5 (00:29):
I'm quite raise his hands.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
He's pumped. The captain.
Speaker 5 (00:34):
Clears the right to win the Test mats Australia. They
go ahead two nearly one of the most hype series
in the history of this fantastic Ashes in Australia dominating
England again Nate wicket when.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
So the series moves to Adelaide for the Third Test
starting on Wednesday. I think I said Thursday, but Wednesday
is day one of the Third Test and the Boxing
Day Test at the MCG and the fifth and final
Test in Sydney in early January. It's a huge pleasure
to welcome to the show BBC Chief cricket commentator, former
England fast bowler and one of the world's most respected
(01:13):
cricket voices, Jonathan Agnew. Jonathan, thank you for joining us.
I read your excellent BBC column on Monday and you
wrote to me the bears ball message is dead. There
has been a realization by England that the way in
which they play their Test cricket must be altered. So
the question is do you think they will alter it?
Speaker 3 (01:37):
That is the one hundred thousand dollar question. Thank you
homing on your program. By the way, it's nice to
be on. Well, we will will find out, won't we.
You know, that's the question. I mean, I think you
can call it bass ball, the way they've been playing
and when when Brendan mcculluman and Ben Stokes first got
together four years ago, there was a job to be done,
(01:57):
and that way of clearing people's minds, the player's minds,
and making them be more positive to enjoy their cricket
again after a terrible run in which they won any
one of seventeen Test matches, that was essential and he
put smiles on people's faces and they went out and
enjoyed their cricket and they beat They beat some decent opposition.
They took the opposition a bit by surprise. But I
think people who is gonna sound a bit arrogant, but
(02:21):
I think you know, there are a lot of people
who follow the game of cricket. You know, at this
sort of level, was saying this is unsustainable. You know,
you can't keep playing, you can't keep playing that. So
they were losing games of cricket that they that they
should have won, and so they had you know, there
has been this idea of just just throttling back, you know,
just play with some common sense which has been lacking
at times in the game. And the opposition were getting
(02:44):
wise to what they were doing. They weren't taken by
surprise anymore. The opposition got better India and then of
course Australia and they lost a Test match at the
Oval last year they absolutely committed suicide and a match
they should have won WHI should have won them the series,
which they failed to do. They leveled the series and
that was it. And then you see the way they
played in person again for much of the game in Brisbane.
(03:07):
You know, it's just it is, it is an unsustainable
way of playing Test cricket. And you'll you'll get you'll
get lucky once or twice, but not not anymore because
people know what's coming. The bowlers know what to do
against them is hanging board outside the off stump and
wait for a mad cap drive and off goes the
next one. So I was very interested to see what
(03:29):
they come up with in Adelaide. But after the few
days they've had up there enjoying the beaches of Noosa,
I suggest they'd better come out and play a pretty
good game because if not, they're going to be in
for a hiding in the press.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Well, I've got there down as a list of or
one of my list of things to ask you. There's
been a lot of talk about England spending time on
the beach in Noosa. Well, downtime is important. Pretty hard
sell for England cricket fans, isn't it when you're too
n all down on the ashes.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
I think it's a very very hard salem.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
And part of the mindset now is that a ten
day break between tests is a rest, But actually what
used to be ten day break between tests was the
opportunity to go off and play game of cricket. And
in this instance they would gone to someone like Port
Pirie in South Australia or the Adelaide tests that they'd
played a country eleven. Joe Ruthey have gone, You've got
(04:18):
one hundred in the test match, played very nicely others
would have played. Some of the players who didn't play
in the Test would have batted and got some runs hopefully,
and then they were settled down and picked a team
that was in form. So so ten day breaks between
Test matches are not new. They were just used in
different ways. They were used. They were used to play
(04:39):
cricket on a cricket tour. That doesn't sound like rocket science,
does it. But instead they sort of used this as
an excuse. Now, you do need a break, you do
need breaks. They've played six days of Test cricket. You know,
does that constitute needing a break. I also think that
you you earn. You earn days off like that, like
(05:05):
a sort of a holiday and do so you earn it,
And I don't think you earn it when you're too
kneeled down after six days of cricket and when you've
got three matches left and you have to win all
of them if you're to win the ashes. So anyway, look,
I think we've all had our say about the about
the preparation.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
This is what they've chosen to do.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
They've chosen to ignore everybody who said this can't be right,
and who knows they might have a miracle. They might,
they might win the next three Test matches, win the
ashes and stick a finger up. Well fair enough, but
they're gonna have to play a damn site better than
they have done so far and show a massive change
in attitude to what they've been showing in the last
the last year or so. All all of those things
(05:42):
have to change because if they don't, if they lose
an Adelaide after all this, you know, for frolicking round
in in Noosa, then I think it will hit the fan.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
You interview in England captain Ben Stokes after both Test
of feats and you write that he was very different
after the second Test in Brisbane than he was after
the first Test in Perth. Can you just explain the
difference that you saw.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, in in Perth, I mean he had just come
off the field in front of fifty thousand people and
they'd had a hiding and they'd lost the game in
two days.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
And he was angry. So you know, I don't I
don't mind him being angry at all. Is what every
right to be angry.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
So it was it was a you know, it was
a very testy interview, which is fine.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
You know, he walks off the field and he's got
to talk to me.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Well, that's no one wants to that, particularly particularly when
he had that sort of treatment in front of fifty thousand.
But the second one, he clearly had things that he
wanted to say. He clearly had stuff about you know,
no no week players in our team and that you know,
these are things that he wanted to say, and that
he was going to go away, They're gonna have conversations
and all that sort of stuff. Now, whether that I say, well,
(06:51):
we'll wait and see whether that's happened, whether that was
just putting a harder edge to their days off in
New Southern Yes, we're going to go and have fun,
but by the same token but also going to be
rooting out these issues. Well, I say, we'll just have
to wait and see. You know, they arrive at Adelaide
on Saturday, they're going to have their usual three days
(07:11):
preparation going into that Test match.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
They better perform.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
They better performed, And I think that Stokes, that reality
and that realization hit Stokes before the end of that
Brisbane Test, which is why he changed his changed his
tone quite so significantly. You know, they know, they know
if they slip up anymore. Well, jobs and careers are
on the line, of course, as they should be, and
(07:36):
there's not been nearly enough accountability over these last four
years for players who have failed. And and that's another
thing that has to change. If you look at the
if you look at the England squad, apart from Oli
Pope batting at three, there is nobody breathing down anybody,
any batsman's necks, dops, haven't got any other replacements four, five,
(07:58):
six seven. Wicket keeper well, he's got Oli Pope maybe,
but there's no one. I think there's no reserve wiket
keeper as such. There is no pressure on places and
that again for me, is part of the issue. You know,
you have to feel that there is competition for places.
That's a good thing as a healthy team environment, and
there isn't that. There isn't that environment in the England team.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Is the general feeling Jonathan that Brendan McCullum and Bean
Stokes are the right meant to be leading England or
will that assessment have to wait until after this series?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah? I think a judgment day will come at the
end of the series. You know, they are very similar
and often in my experiences it's a good thing to
have two different people as captain and coach, two kind
of different mentalities. You know, I'm thinking Andrew Spouse and
Andy Flower who on the ashes here last time, you know,
fifteen years ago. They were very different Michael Vaughan, Duncan Fletcher,
(08:51):
two very different characters, whereas Stokes and McCullum are actually
very much cut from the same cloth. And the problem
with that is that while they might say we don't
need this practice, we don't need to do this, we
need to do that, there are players in their squad,
I believe who actually do need a bit of help.
They do need to play some games, They do need
(09:12):
to get their head in order. They can't just go
out like Brandon McCallum used to do. G just go
out and play. And that's the way that Ben Stokes
does too, just goes out and plays. Well, you know,
lucky them.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Not everyone.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Not everyone's ass as clear minded as that or as
relaxed as that. You know, people, there are others there
who need a completely different approach and I just don't
think that they they're being allowed to have that.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Are Australia just a bit of tiss Cricket team than
England right now? Is that part of us as well?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
No, they're not England. England could have won both matches. No,
they're lot better. And that's what's again bitterly disappointing English
that have won in Perth. There has been one nil
going to the GAB but all sorts of issues going
on there in the Australian camp. You know, there's all
sorts of stuff we need to kick off there with
with Kwaja and who's fit, who isn't fit and Nathan
(10:00):
Laron being left out and being grumpy all these things.
You know, these things would start would have started to unravel,
but they won. You know, they won the game again
to up sitting very pretty with a team that's well,
I mean they're bowling attack. Take Mitchell Stark out. It
is one of the weakest Australian bowling attacks so I've seen.
And it's not being insulting, it's just it's just true.
(10:23):
I mean, you know Dogget and Niezer, you know, compare
that Tote Hazelwood and Cummins and you got Line in
there as well, and they'll well Hazel won't be back,
but comings we'll be back at Adelaide and Line so
it's going to be a much stronger side of the
England up against Adelaide.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Just the funnish thing. Can we circle back to the
one hundred thousand dollars question we started with, Will England change?
Can you see them changing? Can you see things changing
in the series from Adelaide onwards?
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Well, if they're ever going to, it's going to be
next week, because if they don't, it's too late, and
that'll be that, and then all the recriminations and the
inquests and inquiries and everything else will will start to
take place.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
So it's it's up to them. This is the way
they've chosen to do it.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I think everyone, you know, all all also kind of
blue in the face from saying stuff. You know, they're
not interested in what we have to say. You know,
you get called has beens and that's how it used
to be in the old days and all that sort
of stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Okay, well, let's see, let's see how.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Your modern method works, because it's going to have to
work next week.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
It's been a great pleasure chatting with you, Jonathan. Thank
you so much for tacking the time to join us
across New Zealand. That's the pleasure now It's a pleasure
chatting to you, Jonathan. Thank you so much. Jonathan Agne.
What a wonderful guy, by the way, what a voice
and what a depth of cricket knowledge. I could listen
to Jonathan Egg you talk about cricket all day.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live
to news talks it'd be weekends from mid day, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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