Complicating The Narrative
In this podcast, hosted by Dr. Salma Abdalla—Assistant Professor and Director of the Healthier Futures Lab at Washington University in St. Louis—we provide rigorous, evidence-based analysis of complex population health challenges. In a time of social, economic, and political upheaval—marked by eroding public trust, polarized narratives, and growing uncertainty—this podcast aims to challenge oversimplified narratives about the forces that shape the health of populations. Salma engages guests from across disciplines in rigorous, evidence-based conversations that challenge conventional wisdom. The conversations sometimes pose uncomfortable questions, seek nuanced perspectives, and question not just what we think, but how we arrive at our conclusions in public health. We explore the inherent complexities, real-world tradeoffs, and unintended consequences of public health interventions. Our goal is to empower listeners with nuanced understanding, helping them navigate these multifaceted issues in an informed and balanced way. The podcast is supported by the Washington University School of Public Health — https://schoolofpublichealth.washu.edu — and the Frick Initiative. Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/ Contact us at: s.abdalla@wustl.edu
Episodes
Why does public health still struggle to be trusted both at home and abroad?
Craig and Salma discuss the current Ebola outbreak in the Democratic Republic of Congo, which has disappeared from the news but continues building up to be the largest outbreak in history. They discuss Craig’s personal experience as an Ebola survivor in 2014, and analyze how Ebola, and o...
When was the last time a health system asked people for what they needed?
Margaret Kruk joins Salma to discuss health systems and one of their key components: the experience of patients. They start their conversation with an overview of the functions and components of a health system and highlight that, similar to other service industries, healthcare needs to function for th...
In this last episode of the Building Better Ways of Knowing (BBWK) mini-series, Kumanan joins Salma to discuss knowledge systems and their articulations with public health practice in the global context. They begin the conversation by reflecting on knowledge systems, how they have privileged and excluded different forms of knowledge, and how they have lagged behind transformations across other dimension...
Almost nothing about how the United States government funds health research was chosen. The National Institutes of Health (NIH) began with leftover penicillin money and a letter to medical school deans. The decision to fund projects rather than people came from a foundation protecting itself during the Depression. The paperwork came from a congressman who was annoyed in 1962.
Read more
Sara and Darren join Salma to discuss Civic City’s community-first model. They start the conversation by exploring how Civic City uses knowledge, narrative, and design to co-create solutions with communities. To make this tangible, they delve into the Food City STL initiative, which started off by deep community listening and led to a city resolution declaring food as a human right.
Read more
This episode is a re-run of the Ideas Matter podcast episode “The Future of Higher Education” hosted by Dean Sandro Galea—Vice Provost for Interdisciplinary Initiatives at WashU and Co-Director of the Building Better Ways of Knowing initiative—in conversation with Professor Mitchell Stevens. The original episode was released by Ideas Matter on May 26, 2026.
In this episode, Dean Galea and Dr. Ste...
How do values shape the actions and agenda of public health science?
Anya and Salma begin their conversation by discussing how values are inherently embedded in every decision that scientists make, but cannot be considered a contaminant of science, as they are an unavoidable part of how research is designed and conducted. To elaborate on this point, Anya explains the concept of inductive risk—the risk resulting fr...
How and why have certain methods, topics, and assumptions been favored by public health throughout history, and how has that shaped the truths we know today?
Merlin joins Salma to discuss how history provides the framework to understand how specific moments in time have shaped the research preferred by public health, illustrating that these priorities are not timeless but sh...
What is the relevance of history, and individual stories, when framing current public health research and practice?
Rebecca and Salma discuss the role of population-level history, and individual stories, in public health as part of the active tools for framing and translating research and interventions. To illustrate this, they use a historical case from 18th century Bologna and show how authority over the body and know...
This episode is a re-run of the Ideas Matter podcast episode “The Future of Science and the Replication Crisis” hosted by Dean Sandro Galea, Co-Director of the Building Better Ways of Knowing initiative, in conversation with Professor John Ioannidis. The original episode was released by Ideas Matter on May 19, 2026.
This episode begins with a discussion of Dr. Io...
What does it take to shift a public health narrative and are researchers ready when the moment comes?
Whitney and Salma start their conversation discussing Whitney’s move from obesity to gynecologic research, highlighting how gynecologic conditions and overall women’s midlife health are understudied, as well as how obesity narratives remain focused on the individual willpower, despite a strong body of evidence poi...
Katherine Keyes joins Salma to discuss the strengths and limitations of epidemiology, beginning with the gap between what averages tell us about populations and what they fail to predict about individuals. They explore how that gap is a frequent source of public misunderstanding, how self-experimentation can mislead through placebo effects and confounding, and why public health needs to be more transpar...
How can you engage in healthy and fruitful conversation with people who think differently?
Brinda Adhikari joins Salma to discuss the importance of healthy disagreement and unpack how conversations between people who think differently can look like. Reflecting on Brinda’s experience in journalism and especially as co-host of “Why Should I Trust You?”—...
What does it take to close the gap between evidence and action in public health?
As part of the first episode of the Building Better Ways of Knowing mini-series, Alonzo Plough joins Salma to reflect on the inaugural convening of the initiative and to discuss the expectations for the project and future convenings. They discuss the mismatches between the evidence generated in ...
What would it take to build a public health knowledge system that is more pluralistic, reflexive, and oriented toward action?
The Building Better Ways of Knowing initiative was created by the Healthier Futures Lab at Washington University in St. Louis Bursky School of Public Health, in partnership with the Alliance for Health Policy and Systems Research and with support from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation (RWJF). The init...
When and how, if ever, can public health compromise individual autonomy to prioritize the population’s health?
Professor Justin Bernstein joins Salma to discuss the different types of autonomy and liberty, from an ethical and philosophical perspective. By discussing Justin's papers on Covid-19 lockdowns, vaccine mandates, and soda taxes, they weigh when and how, if ever, individual autonomy can be restricted for t...
Why should we all be concerned about sea-level rise and its health impacts today, despite it seeming like a problem of the future?
Dr. Kathryn Bowen and Dr. Jemilah Mahmood join Salma to discuss the recently launched Lancet Commission on Sea-Level Rise, Health, and Justice. They argue that sea-level rise is neither just a coastal nor a future problem, but a present-day publi...
What happens when the global health architecture built over 80 years is changed drastically in 16 months and what should replace it?
Dr. Gbenga Ogedegbe is the Dr. Adolph & Margaret Berger Professor of Medicine and Population Health and the director of the Division of Health & Behavior in the Department of Population Health at NYU Grossman School of Medicine. His res...
How do public health institutions experiencing declining public trust go about becoming trustworthy again?
Erin O'Malley is the Executive Director of the Coalition for Trust in Health and Science, a coalition of more than 90 organizations working to enhance public trust in health and science. With nearly two decades of experience in health policy, advocacy, and cross-sectora...
By some estimates, hundreds of thousands of Americans die each year who would still be alive if the United States had the mortality rates of other wealthy countries. What makes this even more unsettling is that it wasn't always this way. In the mid-twentieth century, Americans actually lived longer than their counterparts in other rich nations. Something changed, and it's been getting worse for over four decades.
Dr. Andrew S...
Popular Podcasts
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Mike Florio & Chris Simms discuss the biggest NFL stories with honesty, candor, and authenticity.