September 9, 2025 • 50 mins
This week The Nutters Club talked about the intersection of competitiveness, mental health, and community connection, and shed light on the positive and negative impacts of striving for success. The conversation explored how competitiveness can motivate individuals but also lead to emotional challenges if not managed healthily.
The discussion began with reflections on the All Blacks rugby match at Eden Park, where fans from opposing teams demonstrated camaraderie and mutual respect. This contrasted with the more aggressive rivalries seen in some sports globally, such as European football, where fans are often segregated for safety. Healthy competition can foster personal growth and community spirit, but when it becomes tied to identity or self-worth, it can lead to harmful outcomes.
One caller shared a personal story about how competitiveness within their family created destructive patterns, leading to a realisation that life is not a competition. They highlighted the importance of finding self-worth outside of achievements and embracing love and connection as more meaningful measures of success.
The conversation also touched on the dangers of over-identifying with accomplishments. A notable example was Steve Gurney, a nine-time winner of New Zealand’s Coast to Coast race, who fell into depression after an injury prevented him from competing for a tenth title. His story underscored the importance of separating identity from achievements and finding joy in the journey rather than the outcome.
Psychotherapist Kyle McDonald emphasised the value of purpose and gratitude in mitigating the darker sides of competitiveness. He noted that purpose-driven actions, such as volunteering or supporting others, can provide fulfilment and a sense of connection. For example, many parents and community members dedicate time to coaching or organising youth sports, fostering relationships and shared experiences.
The discussion also addressed challenges faced by individuals with physical limitations. A listener with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) shared their struggle with feeling excluded from active pursuits. Suggestions included adapting activities to suit physical abilities, such as hosting a picnic at home or finding less physically demanding ways to connect with others.
The conversation highlighted that while competitiveness can drive achievement, true mental well-being comes from fostering meaningful relationships, embracing purpose, and finding joy in the present moment.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk SEDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Greetings and welcome. I'm Hamish Williams and you're listening to
the podcast version of The Nutters Club, a radio show
broadcast on News Talk ZEDB that talks about mental health
and shares helpful tips about how to live with your own.
The show is broadcast live on Sunday nights on News
Talk seed B right across New Zealand and around the world.
(00:42):
Since two thousand and nine, Hot on the heels of
New Zealand's All Blacks winning a historic fifty first Test
match of rugby against beloved rivals South Africa's Springbok defending
what has become known as Fortress Eden aka Auckland's Eden Park,
(01:02):
my co hosts, psychotherapist Carl McDonald and I took the
opportunity to have a conversation about what the impact of
competitiveness can have on our mental health. What I took
away from the chat was that healthy competitiveness can drive growth,
however it must be balanced. Also that purpose and connection
(01:23):
are essential for mental well being, and that adaptability is
key to overcoming limitations let us know what you learned
from the chat on any of our social media platforms.
Just search for the Nutters Club enz last night last
night at Eden Park. My voice is holding out, but
(01:44):
if I'm a little horse, it's from having chaired very,
very loudly while I was in the Where was I?
I was in the East stand, the eastand just underneath
the big giant replay board with the score on it,
you know, I was underneath that. It was awesome, such
an amazing crowd, incredible experience, and was really lucky to
(02:08):
be there and felt very grateful to be so wonderful
people all around us from both sides of the supporter base. However,
the lead up, the lead up of the week to
this game was bordering on hysteria of the idea would
we win, would we lose? Would for tressed and fall?
(02:29):
Of course it wasn't going to but anyway, you would
have heard it if you've been listening to z'b at
all this week. I think every time I turned on
the radio or I was in the car driving around,
it was mentioned or brought up in some veiled way
every sort of twenty minutes or so. So if you've
been listening to it all week. You're probably happy to
hear that it's all done and dusted for now, But
(02:50):
I'd tell you what, it was such an anxiety inducing
prospect for me to go to that game last night
with all of this frenzy that had been whipped up
around it, that I had to take my psychotherapist along
with me. It was the only way to do it.
If you've never taken your psychotherapist to a rugby game,
highly recommend it. So of course he's my psychotherapist, he's
(03:14):
your psychotherapist. He's Carl McDonald. He's here in the studio
with me, Kyle. A good evening again, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Cured, what a what a wonderful evening that was last night.
And I'm a little bit croaky as well.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I feel like if you go to an AB's game
to be fair and you don't you know, and you're
not croaking the next the next day, he didn't give
it everything.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Oh look at the least we can do.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Hey, it's how else are they going to know? Which?
You know this is this is one of the things
I wanted to talk about tonight because obviously, like I
was just saying, you know, we were we were surrounded by,
you know, people who were cheering just as loudly, if
at points not louder. Then you know, for South Africa,
it's great, and it was and it was really really wonderful.
(03:57):
And I started to think about it though, and I
was like, yeah, but it's not always like this in
all parts of of the world and places right now,
I've been a few league games and I wonderful crowds
Phoenix Auckland Auckland Football Club, great crowds. But then if
you look at some of like you know, English football
(04:18):
and some of the you know, some of the European teams,
you know, they literally have to be in separate parts
of the stadium.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah, like fenced away from each other, right, because it's
it's not safe, right, and that kind of competitiveness you
kind of go, well, hang on, that's bordering on a
bit unhealthy, isn't it. You know, the fact that you
you quite literally would like to hurt somebody because they
support a different sports team to you. Now, when I
put it like that, it sounds a little silly, But
(04:43):
if you were to put it to die hard fans
on the other side of the world in the UK,
and they just tell you that you don't fully understand
about how important these things are. And I wondered about
that the idea of sometimes like it can spill out
of being just in sports, right, this idea of competitiveness
and the comparison that we can have them. Yeah, yeah,
(05:05):
that the other people, right, and then idea of like
who's better. This competitiveness, right, it can sometimes be a
really strong driver for you to want to push yourself better. Right.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I mean, let's say you might be competing against somebody,
you know, not necessarily in sports, but maybe in the workplace,
maybe in life, somebody that you want to you know,
you've identified as you know, you want to do better
then for whatever reason. But at which point does it
stray when it comes to our mental health? Where can
(05:38):
competitiveness be good and where's the line where it can
actually potentially do harm?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Yeah, it's a really good question. I mean, I think,
you know, as we were talking about before we came
on air, it's one of those things that you know,
there's a bit of chat around about New Zealand values
at the moment. I think Andrew before us was diving
into that topic. I think about little Humble brag here
Hamish of the fifty one games at Eaton Park that
the All Blacks have won in that streak. I've been
(06:05):
to thirty six now last World Time, but thirty six
and I have never seen any issues in the crowd.
One of the things I really like about New Zealan's
attitude to spport is we do take it incredibly serious.
So you could argue, as you said hysteria, we take
our rugby far too seriously. A little bit less than
we used to, perhaps, but still, you know, we can
get a bit carried away. But we don't need to
(06:27):
put fences up between us and the Wallabies fans or
us in the spring Box fans, because you know, like
last night, there might be a little bit of a
cheeky comment or a bit of benter, but it's all
good natured and everyone's having a laugh, right And to me,
that's kind of the spirit of the game. Where it
tips over, I think is when people get too invested
in being part of a group that they then have
(06:51):
to defend that it actually becomes part of their identity
rather than actually something that is. Let's face it, and
I might get some reaction to this, but at the
end of the day, whether the All blakes, wind and
lows doesn't really matter. It doesn't really matter. We decide
that it matters, and we get very emotionally invested in it.
But one of the things I love about sports is
(07:12):
it doesn't any matter. At the end of the day,
the sun comes up, everybody moves on with their life,
you know. I mean, some politicians might say it affects
election outcomes, but you know, at sport, a sport, it's
supposed to be there as entertainment and actually, you know
more so for the overwhelming majority of people that play
it at lower levels, it's supposed to be fun.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
So in terms of competitiveness in our day to day lives, then,
now where can it work? Because it can work incredibly great,
you know, well for us to have a goal, and
you know, sometimes competing against the idea of it could
be something as simple as a deadline that you're competing against.
So that can be really good, right, that can be
really helpful. But at which point does that competitiveness, How
(07:57):
can that become something negative? For me?
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Well?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I think it gets negative when and you know, this
is where I guess we come back to solid ground
and things that we talk about a lot on the
show is it becomes negative when we can start to
get regulated and our emotional responses to it, when we
start to feel overwhelmed. That might be because we've put
too much importance on it. You know, things can be important,
but sometimes we can blow them up way out of proportion.
(08:22):
We can also decide that somehow it's a measure of
our worth as a person. So, you know, I think
we often do this with careers and jobs. We see
ourselves as being worthy because we do a thing where
we are you know, a lawyer or a doctor or
a broadcaster or whatever. And actually a lot of times
I think we put too much emotional energy into those things.
And also I think, you know, perfectionism and that idea
(08:47):
that actually we have to get it all one hundred
percent right all of the time, as opposed to recognizing
that actually sometimes slipping up a bit teachers us some
really useful lessons and actually that's where the learning happens.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So what you're saying is that sometimes we can become
over competitiveness, sorry, over competitive with our own expectations of yourself.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah. Look, and I think we can see this play
out in lots of ways, right, I mean, you know,
sports that is a wonderful metaphor for life. And I think,
you know, how we approach kids sports is a great
example of this. You know that, actually, of course you
want your kids to win and to do well, and
you want to feel proud of them. But actually kids'
primary school age start playing sports because they want to
(09:31):
hang out with their mates and they're fun. Right, It's
for most kids, that's what it's about. So I always
feel a bit sad when the parents are sort of
getting a bit carried away on the sideline, because I think, well, actually,
it's not about you. It's you know, as a kid
having fun. And of course as they get older, it
gets more serious, and actually part of the fun is
being competitive and taking it seriously. But actually, I think
often it's about recognizing that we even in things that
(09:54):
are really serious, we have to be able to find
ways to enjoy them. And that's actually to find that
joy is part of what helps us regulate ourselves.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Let's go to the lines, Paul, good evening to you.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Good evening for you. My competitiveness began in the family.
My father was very much a little in my life,
even though he lived with the family and I was
I became highly competitive with my highly competitive brother. This
(10:28):
brought to my attention the destructive effect of competitiveness, and
I can't you know, I kind of later considered to
myself that life just isn't a competition. It isn't a
competition at all. And yet many feel they need to
(10:50):
prove something about themselves and in so doing be better
at something than someone else, or be better as a
person at someone else. And this is rather destructive. I feel,
you know, it's rather demeaning to be have a competitive
(11:14):
kind of energy about you, because it really reveals a
lack really of something you're trying to prove that you're not,
that you're bigger than this thing you fear inside you.
Those are my kind of takes on it, because I
(11:37):
know how destructive my own competitiveness became, and that affected
me deeply. It affected it, put up areas, It created
all sorts of problems for me, which is why I've
come to a view of being very aware of the
(11:59):
destructive side of an overly competitive mind. You know, everything
is a challenge everything, all the stakes are high, and
you have to prove this thing about yourself that you
know you're insecure about it. So you, you go out
(12:21):
and you compete, and yeah, and you try to prove
to yourself and others that this doesn't this is not you.
But you're better than that, and you're better than the
next guy and the next guy and the next guy.
You know, and you get the picture that I'm trying
to present.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah, I mean, I guess like in terms of the
idea of like, you know, is there anything wrong with
you know, wanting to be competitive. No, But I think
when when it becomes the source of your identity, you know,
I've got to be better than other people. Otherwise I don't.
I don't see any value in myself. That is when
(13:01):
it's very very damaging and I feel that, you know
often yeah, I've often said, you know, you're going to
find it very hard to find a duration and and
consistent value from, you know, from always winning or having
a duration from from people that you don't know. It's
often why it's only ever know, maybe two or three
(13:22):
people really close to us in our life are the
ones that we really feel that you know, true true
value from. And there's a word for that, and we
call it love.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And listen to what I realized, you
know that this was a sad thing about myself that
I you know, and one ti I'd realized that. I
certainly tried to rein it in and to address the
issue because I knew how limiting and how futile it was,
(13:55):
and and it wasn't good for setting out good connections
with people.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
You know, Yeah, gotcha, gotcha? So so when did you
come to that realization, Paul? It was point in your life.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Probably I've had a mental I'm seventy three and I've
had a mental health journey of fifty years. I would
say for that fifty years, I was very competitive. Probably
two serids of the way through my mental health journey,
I started to address it because I became aware of it.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yes, and I'd.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Result certain things within the family. So that meant that
I didn't feel the desire or need or urge to
compete so strongly. I'm out for I'm all up for
sports and friendly competition. But as you say, don't stake
(15:00):
your well being on it, don't stake who you are
as a person on it.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
That's amazing insight, Paul, Yeah, and I really agree with that. Look,
that's that's a wonderful guiding light for this conversation tonight.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
I mean, one of the things that I think is
really important. I just want to check it into the
conversation too. Is this very easy with competitiveness to think individualistically,
But actually when it comes to innovation, when it comes
to the wonderful things that human beings have done, often
we focus on that person that you know, did the thing, sure,
and but split the atom or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Rutherford, Sir Ernest Rutherford, he's on our hundred dollar night.
He certainly is born in Richmond Tessman District. There.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
I would venture forth that even sir Ernest Rutherford on
our hundred dollar bill would have had a whole team,
whether that was people who taught him, people who learned
from or people who supported them in his journey. Because
actually collaboration is as important as when we start to
think about competition, is how do we actually have people
on board with us, take them with us. So maybe
we're talking about team sports rather than individual sports.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
I think that very few things in life are actually
done in isolation.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
You know, whatever the achievement is, somebody had to teach
you that skill, somebody had to tell you that it was,
you know, Gill never do this and you're like, wow,
I'm going to you know, that kind of competitiveness, there's
always other people involved in it. You don't do it
on your own.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
To slide back to rugby for a moment, Ardie so
Via did not win that Test match on his own
last night. There's fourteen other people on the field and
countless other people off the field who players, supporters, dietitians, trainers, families, partners, kids.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I mean, as kids came on to the field afterwards,
and you know, it was just lovely to see. Yep,
you can't tell me. I mean, actually, I remember a
professional rugby player who I knew down and Dunedin. He'll
remain nameless at this point, but I said to him,
what's the hardest thing about being being a professional rugby player?
And he said my kids picking up my kids from
(17:04):
school on a Monday the weekend after we lost a game,
because and his kids were primary school age. Yeah, you know,
and guess what was that being said in the playground.
I have to imagine my dad says, your dad's a loser.
Now pretty hard, you know, pretty horrible for the kids.
I mean, and let's call it what it is. It's
bullying totally. And what would happen though, is that he'd
(17:26):
have to pick his kids up and then they'd be
upset and they'd be like, Dad, could you please try
and win this weekend? Please? Because it was really hard.
They actually did go on to become an All Black.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Yeah, that's rough though, I mean, I mean, I don't know.
Maybe I'm idealistic. I'd like to think that kind of
stuffs change, but maybe it hasn't.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Well, look it was twenty years ago. Yeah, so you'd
like to think, but that that kind of competitiveness, the
idea of running people down when they don't meet your expectations,
that's not okay because again, we don't operate in isolation,
so we actually need to support each other.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I agree. Wanting to win is not the same thing
as punishing people when they lose.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And I'm trying to actually remember because you know, we've
had various various sporting people actually we have on the
show over the years, often after they've retired. Day Yeah, yeah,
that's it comes to comes to mind, and you know
we had it was Borrows. I'm trying to remember who
it was. Was it Phil Gurney? Phil Phil Gurney who yeah.
(18:24):
Phil Gurney who ran the Spates Coast to Coast. Oh yeah, yeah,
years ago. There's a competitive man. Well he won it
nine times. He won it nine times and then had
some kind of injury which meant that he couldn't do
it for the tenth time, and he fell into some
inredibly deep depression because he had become so focused and
(18:48):
obsessed with the idea was well, yeah, he was Phil Gurney,
the Spates Coast to Coast guy. And that's not an
easy race if you don't know what it is. Yeah,
you run from well you you run, swim sayak, I
don't know if you swim, you definitely run, definitely kayak.
Kayak can bike up over.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
The Southern Alps, start on the East coast. Finished and
christ churche more.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, yes, And so essentially you go from the weast
coast of the South Island to the East coast and
it's a very gruel and taste in a day. Yeah,
and people train for years, not just a few months.
Like people trained for years to get to the level
to be able to do this. And he won it
nine times a row, yes, but he couldn't win it
(19:35):
a tenth after he had this injury and it sent
him into a deep depression because so much of his
identity had become wrapped up and the idea, I'm Steve Gurney,
SPS Spates Coast Coast guy, and I'm going to win
ten of these Now, the fact that he won nine
was an incredible achievement, absolutely, but he couldn't bring himself
(19:55):
to really struggled with it to reconcile that it was
never going to be ten. Now. Ultimately he came to
accept that nine was actually really impressive and he should
just be super happy about it.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Will be unbreakable.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I doubt I doubt anybody would would have the you know,
the role especially. I think it's even just the motivation
toward do it. You know, it's a huge number. It's
a massive commitment.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
But it illustrates some of the things we've been talking about, right,
which is what's the what's the dark side? To put
it that way of competitiveness, I mean that the positive
side is obvious right, clearly he was an incredible sportsman,
endurance athlete, said an incredible record that will probably never
be broken and shone the light. I think, you know,
I've got a couple of mates who've done the tea
(20:41):
version or the two day version of the Coast to
Coast because it was so popular, and part of that
popularity was him, right, So all of that positive flow
on effect but actually had a personal cost to him
because he was so locked on to it having to
be a certain way.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I just got a text, thank you very much, not
fell Gurney. Steve Gurney. Yeah that sounds right. Yeah, it
sounds better, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Yeah, I mean we're not the sports broadcasters, but I
should remember past guest names. So look, thank you very much, Yes,
Steve Gurney.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And so the idea that, you know, we start putting
this pressure on ourselves. I always come up with that saying,
you know, comparison is the thief of joy.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Totally.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, And it's something that we do a lot in
our mental health. You know. Oh, I saw so and
so posted some photos online. Looks like they had a
wonderful weekend. Their life is so much better than mine.
And what we don't realize is that, yeah, okay, you
saw the nice photos, but you didn't see the argument
that happened, you know, twenty seconds after the photo was taken,
(21:40):
or the fact that the people who you know who
were taking that photo were actually really struggling on some
other front at the moment because they've got some massive
bills that they're struggling to pay.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Well, let me check some research at you and brief
there's a whole field of research that looks at what
are the effects of societal inequality? Right, the comparison stuff
we had, lots of people are rich and there's a
big spread of money, you know, like so America being
generally agreed upon as the most unequal country in the world.
What we know is that it actually has a negative
impact on all sorts of mental health diagnoses and addictions
(22:12):
and things. We know that that's kind of like old news, right.
The thing that always amazed me about that, though, is
that when you look at the top ten percent, so
the most wealthy in unequal countries and the top ten
percent and less unequal countries. Right, generally your Scandinavian countries,
even the most wealthy in unequal countries are less happy
(22:36):
than those in more equal countries. Now that at first
class doesn't make much sense.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
It's blowing my mind because the.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Whole myth with you know, competitiveness and get more and
save more and you know, be more successful. It will
make you happy. But competition in that way, in terms
of fearing fear of losing it all, there's always more
to get, right, there's always the tenth race to win. Actually,
some of the competitiveness stuff is actually also finding ways
to be satisfied with what we do have and being
(23:02):
grateful for where we are.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
So how do we go about that being able to
actually you know that that necessary, you know, unnecessary competitiveness
because you know, I get it. I mean, I've I've
had periods in my life where you know, you've you've
had kind of I don't know, I mean I think
there was a couple of times where there was something
that I really wanted to get my hands on, and
you know, then you end up getting it and then
(23:27):
it's done and it's not a thing anymore, and it
just sits there and stares back at you. So how
do we go about trying to eliminate that from our
live you know, and actually find that, as you were saying,
you know, find that more balanced and equal way of
looking at things.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Well, some of it comes back to that old gem
of gratitude, right of being able to focus on what
we already have and to be grateful for the things
that we do have. But I think with competitiveness, it's
about being realistic, right, It's about setting goals and realizing
that ultimately we're only competing with ourselves, and that kind
of competition with ourselves we think of a self improvement.
I think, so setting those realistic goals and allowing ourselves
(24:04):
to enjoy when we get there, right, because that's the
other thing, enjoying winning nine races or do we focus
on getting to the tenth? And so actually, how can
we take that time to have some enjoyment in the
experience of getting there? And often I think, again no
surprise to listeners at this show that I think a
lot of that comes down to who are the people
(24:26):
that we go on the journey with. How do we
make sure that, no matter what we do that's competitive,
we actually enjoy the connections that we foster along the
way and the memories that we create.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
So in terms of being able to actually have some
kind of measure for that, what are some of the
things that we should be thinking about. Is it really
does it come down to who am I spending my
time with? Who am I talking to?
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah? Absolutely, and you know, again focusing on you know,
we don't want to get rid of competitiveness. You know,
people will say, oh, you know, that's okay for kids
to lose all the time. Now it's like, well, no,
of course getting better is important, but getting better relative
to ourselves and having realistic expectations is really important. Making
(25:08):
sure that we're setting those realistic goals for ourselves based
on what we want for ourselves, what's realistic, what will
make us happy, not on what you know the neighbors
have got or what we see on the old Instagram feed.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, so being able to actually have some realistic markers
for ourselves and actually just more being content for your
own satisfaction because ultimately, you know, if you go and
buy the new car, no one really cares that much.
Somebody might ask you, Kyle, is that a new car?
Speaker 4 (25:39):
No.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
The happiness researchers talk about the fact that the happiness
bump from buying a new car lasts about as long
as the new car smell.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, it's something like it's less than seven days, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
A little bit longer than that, It's about about four weeks,
but it's not very long. It doesn't matter how expensive
the car is, because ultimately a car, this is the
car A to B.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
He Well, I mean, look, there are car enthusiasts out
here one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
And I think that that comes back to gratefulness actually
to being able to focus on what you've got rather
than the act of getting it. Yes, So if cars
are really your thing and it's still bringing you pleasure,
it's probably because you're still paying attention to it in
a particular kind of way.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
I think one space that this gets really interesting, and
we've talked a little bit about it in the last hour,
is when our identity becomes all wrapped up on it.
And sometimes it can be where we project our identity
as well. A lot of the times and obviously, you know, yesterday,
we're going to say yesterday now because it was yesterday.
Yesterday was Father's Day. And sometimes, you know, parents especially
(26:43):
can find their identity in the successful the success of
their kids, especially you know kids sport, not just sport though,
whether or not your kid makes the makes you know,
the lead, and the school drama, drama that they're going
to put on, or what else is there. There's all
(27:03):
sorts of things that go on at schools and trying
to remember off the top of my academic cups. Oh,
the academic cups. Yeah, the prize giving at the end
of the year. You know Mike had grif Oh yes,
oh yeah, yeah. Prefix that gets all that gets a
bit hairy at times. And so suddenly you've got all
these parents that suddenly get competitive with each other over
how you know their kids are going. And sometimes that
(27:27):
can be really hard, mostly for the kid. The idea
that that sometimes they don't want to let mum or
dare down by not actually meeting the expectations, not being competitive.
I guess it's the idea though of like, you know,
if you're going through life, that you want to actually
make sure that you find the motivation to do to
(27:49):
do things. And so perhaps, Kyle, the other thing I'm
interested to find out about from you your perspective is
where can we if not from you know, I need
to feel as though I have been better than others,
which is totally something that people do think. You know,
I mean, I guess I'm doing well, I'm doing better
than so and so that I went to school with. Right,
What are some other more sort of healthier sources of
(28:12):
motivation to be able to propel ourselves forward with our
day to day rather than having to be at the
idea that there was a winner and a loser and
therefore that's what I needed to do.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Well, it's a great question. I mean, I think two
of the things that come to mind. The first one
when you were talking about parents and competing via our
children or getting ourselves esteem via our children's success is
again I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with that
if we're clear that what we're doing is encouraging the
things that they are naturally inclined to do. So where
(28:46):
I can where I've seen this over the years go
sideways when people turn up in their thirties or forties,
is they realize that, actually, let's take a real cliche
example that actually I'm just a doctor because my dad
really wanted me to be a doctor like him, But
actually I don't like medicine, you know. So it's that
thing of like, actually, how do you connect with your
kids in a way that encourages them to get to
(29:08):
know themselves? And how do you get to know them
for the person that they are and the talents and
abilities that they have and encourage those things towards which
they are naturally inclined, because life's a lot easier if
you do what comes naturally. And then second of all,
I would say, well, actually, I always challenge it when
it comes up in the consulting room when people say
(29:29):
to me, oh, you know, but so and so down
the road or everyone else seems like they've got their
lives to get it, and I'm like, no, no, no,
trust me, they really don't. But it looks like it
from the outside because they've got the nice car in
the driveway, and they've got the nice house, and their
kids go to the nice school, and everyone seems calm,
But you don't know what goes on inside their heads
(29:49):
or inside their lives. And so actually, you know, the
one thing that we know that predicts lifelong happiness is
the quality of your relationships, the quality of your connections
you're foster with people.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Well, look, I'd love to hear from you on this tonight.
So eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number of you know, having healthy relationships with people to
be able to actually have a general sense of self
worth from the fact that you know you've got those
good people in your life. I'd love to hear from
anyone who's had that experience in terms of knowing what
(30:24):
that looked like. Who were those people that were able
to really make that difference for you because often, you know,
the others can actually run down too. The competitiveness can
come another way was when other people put you down?
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Yeah, totally. And you know, I mean we're just to
wander back briefly for a moment, go for it to
the All Blacks. One of the things that's impressed me
about the evolution of how that team's culture has changed
over the years that I've been a rugby tragic There
was epitomized on Sunday night by Ardie Sava's cat presentation.
His wife presented it to him, not the coach, not
(30:59):
the chairman of the rugby board, but his partner and
his kids were there, and his family were there, and
the team spoke about him. The coach was nobody to
be seen. There was no officials. They were there, but
they weren't front and the center because actually it was
about who were the people that mattered to him connection.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
And there they were front and center.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
YEP.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Part of it, you know, in terms of what we've
been talking about, Texas has come in here and says
I'm so hard on myself that whenever a person expects
me to do something for them, I have much higher standards.
I started off a few years ago doing it twenty
one kilometer half marathon walks. Then I dropped it back
(31:42):
to ten kilometer walks. Now I can only do five
kilometer walks at the same event, anyone can walk five kilometers.
I use those walks to get out of town and
have a week end away for myself, and I've been
doing it for seven years now or more.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Well, Look, I think it's great because one of the
you know, it actually highlights something that I've been thinking
about since I've turned fifty. Because, of course, the other
thing with competitive as it changes across your life, right,
what we can do changes, and so that's why it's
always we're always competing with ourselves. Actually, as long as
we're striving to do what works for us, and that's
all that matters.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I would argue that the competition there is the consistency.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Absolutely, and recognizing it's not about the distance, but it's
about the experience.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
And the fact that you've been able to consistently organize
yourself a week end away to go and do something
and you've done that for seven years. Well that's amazing.
That's a whole achievement and of itself.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
And I bet that person's met a lot of people
along the way, had a lot of experiences and got
a lot of great memories.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Well, I mean, look, you know, if you're walking, you
can talk, right, yep. Five k's though, what would a
five k walk take you? On average? It will be
about half half an hour?
Speaker 3 (32:56):
No, it depends how first you're walking.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Well, and I'm trying to think, you know, I walk.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Google walk speeds for four kilometers an hour, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
So it's probably it's probably more. Yeah, you're looking at
just under an hour. Yeah, we have a good chat
with somebody in and out totally. That's what we do
on the show. We have chat with people, especially when
they call up.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
We could work. We could probably get close to ten
k walk on this show.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
If we were walking, let's take the show on the
road car.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Or just get some treadmills in here.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Just get some treadmills in here. I don't know if
we need to be doing that. We could get a
little a little sweaty, and it's it's hot enough in here.
In this room tonight. Is this all right? Let's go
to the lines. Jay, good morning to you, Good morning team.
Speaker 5 (33:34):
I'm joined the session again tonight. I decided to bring
up a couple of contributions and go for it. I
lost my dad when I was three years old, and
I went through a hard time trying us to help
my mum and I had no brothers or and my
sister was taken away. But what I found is that
(33:57):
stuff a lot of rejection. And so what I did.
I strive to do everything really well, and I was
really competitive and I was quite good at things. But
I found it over the years as at older, that
a lot of people have you for your talents, to
contribute to the team or whatever, but a lot of
people really still didn't really want to know you as
(34:18):
a person. So they suffered fit with a toxic chain
going around to people most places and they went home
or the mother said, oh, they're not there, but they
were there. They used to away out the window and
I thought were walking away. Film but sad. And one
thing that totally teared me around was I saw this
amazing film. I don't know anyone on the program community.
(34:41):
It was a film called Chariots of Fire.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Chariots of Fire, Yes, classic, Yes.
Speaker 5 (34:48):
And that teared me around because there's a brilliant film
and I really affected. I actually don't crazy, but I
got quite emotional because it was touching my personally. And
so one guy that was all out. So when one
hundred meters front and the other guy was a neat
guy found ot later was a commit of Christian and
(35:09):
he would run on the Sunday. But he ran and
he ran and he ran. And what made me he
ran a joy in his heart because he had a
main purpose look forward to. But the other guy ran
and won one hundred meter sprint, but then after he
was devastated because he didn't have anything deep in his
life and all the imagies he put them to be
(35:31):
competitive to win the hundred meter sprint. And what I
learned from that lesson is that you need to learn
how to be content with little or a lot. And
that's what changed my life because from that point on,
I decided I was going to serve and help other
people and encourage him and encourage a love to encourage
(35:52):
people in many ways, whether giving gifts or food or
maybe sharing talking just being here, and I found learning
to serve others has bought a lot of joy and
peace and it stopped me from being Madi very competitive.
So I'm just stilling seventy now and I'm a lot
happier in my whole life because I've learned how to
(36:14):
serve and I've got a purpose and I know, Aroun,
I'm heading when I die. So I'm really pretty rap
and I'm really enjoying the meeting. The meeting tonight as
we're sharing as a great because a lot of people
listen to this meeting on a Sunday night, and mental
health is a huge thing because people are very lost
out there and they need to have support people that
(36:36):
really love and care for them as a person. And
it makes a big difference to it a little bit
tonight to help a lot other comments about charity of
five that helped other people.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Yeah, I thank you, and I love what you're saying
about purpose. It's not something that we've touched on tonight,
but it's incredibly important. Like you say, it's not enough
to do the thing, but you've got to have a
reason why as well.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
There you go, be a little bit of Chariots of
five for you.
Speaker 6 (37:05):
Lovely, this one's for you, Jay, the song that carried
a movie that changed your life.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
I've got the slow motion running scene in my mind's
eye as the music plays.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Tell you what I'm gonna do, some slow motion running
as we go to the break. We'll be back soon.
Here I'm the Nudders Club. Hey, welcome back to the show.
Just a little bit of a little bit of trivia
if we're there from our producer, but Boris.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
It's amazing what he could put out of their head
of this.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
So you know, we were just talking about Chariots a Fire. Yeah,
if you don't know the story of Chariots a Fire,
it's about the nineteen twenty four Summer Olympics one hundred
meters sprint running running and about the guy who won it.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
What you may not know, Kyle, and what I did
not know, indeed until about two minutes ago, was that
the man who came third in that race, the bronze medal,
bronze medle. Was it key we get out Arthur portt So,
Arthur Port quite interesting. He was a physician, He was
(38:14):
a military surgeon.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
He was probably served in World War One today imagine.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yeah, yeah, it looks like it. And he won the
bronze medal at the nineteen twenty four Summer Olympics and
one hundred meters sprint. But wait for it. He was
the eleventh Governor General of New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yeah, from nineteen sixty seven to nineteen seventy two. He
was also he's one that the late sixties okay, yep,
but he isn't something that he was number one in
He was the first New Zealand born person to ever
hold the office of Governor General.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Wow, that's interesting. So the first New Zealand Board governor
General wasn't until nineteen sixty seven.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
It's correct. So they used to kind of just send
somebody over to fly and from old mother England, from
the Empire. Yeah, from the Empire, go and sort those
Qis out and Antipodeans bloody colonials. Yeah. No, they did
say that literally seen somebody down here and usually be
a mative of somebody's because.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Now, I mean it's always a keeping right in Australia
and so on since sixty seven sixty seven.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so Arthur por it.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
He sounds like a good bloke.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
I really liked what Jay had to say though in
that last call when yeah, he was saying, Actually, we
and this is what I'm interested to find out from
your perspective, cale is do we get a little bit confused?
Actually we think that the you know, that feeling of
competitiveness me versus the world that's actually giving me a
bit of purpose. But it's kind of you're close, but
(39:45):
you're not quite all the way there. And so actually,
when we talk about purpose, what is that and what
is it doing that aids how mental health?
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Well, it's about the why are we doing it? Right?
So I mean I think, you know, I think it
was a really great call because what it highlighted is
the difference between a purpose less competitiveness, right, versus actually
doing it for it for a deeper reason. Service of
course being one version of what that is right doing
things for others. But you know, I mean the examples money, Right,
(40:17):
Money can be a purpose if it leads to other things.
But money in and off itself is a purpose I
think often fails us because money on its own, the
accumulation of money for the sake of accumulating money, ultimately,
it is quite hollow. I think what we can do
with money, that's an entirely different matter, right, And so,
you know, I think a lot of people who have
(40:38):
accumulated wealth can have quite a purpose driven life if
they then contribute, whether that be through trusts or you know, charities,
or doing all sorts of good good in the world. Similarly,
I think, you know, we might find the purpose in
going off to a job that we really struggle with
and knowing that we're putting food on the table for
our kids and family. Finding that reason why can be
(40:59):
a great way to keep ourselves going and to buffer
ourselves against the rough bits of competition.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
It's interesting you say that, because you know, in terms
of like what you can do with it. I know
a guy who's reasonably wealthy, and you know, probably if
he never worked another day in his life now, he'd
be fine. He's a bit older, but he volunteers a
lot of his time so much that the organization that
he volunteers at people actually think he works there but
(41:27):
don't even understand that, you know, because he likes it.
But he's here so much and doing so much. And
then they're sort of like, well, yeah, but he's still
actually just volunteering his time and so but that has
become the purpose. And then when you actually think about that,
You're like, wow, so you've got somebody actually giving so
much of their time because they're passionate they want to help.
(41:47):
That's a connection and community part. The competitiveness part of
it has ceased to have any value in terms of like, well,
you know, is it me versus somebody else as to
who can get the next job or make the next
great grand business, do you or whatever it is, because
you've already got to that point nowunt there's majority of
(42:10):
us probably not in that position. However, we can do
our own little versions of that in our own way
to be able to have out and have purpose.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Absolutely, and we've touched on kids sports tonight as an
example of how this can go a bit sideways, right,
But let's talk about the positive version of that. You know,
we went and watched a bunch of very well paid
professional sportsmen on Saturday night. Underneath that is thousands of
people who give hundreds of thousands of hours of their
own time voluntarily, whether that be coaching or you know,
(42:41):
playing or referering at different levels of the game and
across all sports. Like you know, I've got two girls,
so netball's kind of the game in our house and
my partner does a lot of the coaching and stuff,
but it's a big time commitment. But what do you
get out of that community connection. You get to know people,
You get to know the other kids, you get to
(43:02):
know the other parents, and you start to have those
shared experiences which actually, over time have a lot of
me and give you a lot of purpose. Right because,
especially with the team that you might sort of coach
through a number of different years, you see these kids
grow up and you see the people they become.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
There's something magic about the fact that a whole bunch
of individuals can organize themselves to turn up at the
same spot at the same time to put on some
sort of you know, concocted you know, past time that's
got some rules and regulations, and that most people are
more than willing to give and to do this.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
So you turn up at the old Saint John's Courts
or here in Auckland, out East Auckland, and it is
a machine. You know, we're talking like fifty odd courts.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's amazing. But again it comes back
to when you know, we're talking about our mental health here.
The fact is that people do this because it actually
makes them feel good.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Absolutely to be part of something and to challenge yourself.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
And you keep coming back, as you say, because it
keeps making you feel good. So in terms of like,
you know, what's what's happening and firing off in your
brain and happening, and we actually bring this back to
the big picture of that's great, hey, Mish and Kyle,
but how does this relate to mental health? The idea
is actually the competition when we're talking about sports, is
just an excuse to get together and spend a bit
of time.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Absolutely, and you know, to take it one step further.
Sometimes those days where you don't feel like getting out
of bed and turning up at the court, you do
it for the rest of your team because that's part
of being in a community, part of being a team.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Who knows you might feel better after a couple of ours.
Got a really interesting text here, Kyle. Okay, in terms
of what we've just talked about, which is, hey, get
out and have some fun and do some sport and
you know, community connection. It could all work.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Sure it sounds great in the theory, but then life happens. Yeah, Okay,
this is that Donn has texted and this is actually
a really good example that she says, I'm sixty six
and I have a friend who comes to see me
once a week. She goes on about going out camping,
going on picnics and seeing places, and it saddens me.
(45:07):
Is I live with c p D. Now, if you
don't know what that is, I just looked it up.
It's chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, which is like a respiratory.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Thing cong Yeah, so pulmonary being lung. So it's a
lung disorder that affects your ability to breathe effectively. You know,
it slows you down in terms of your breathing and
your ability to function.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Okay, so you've got a health issue, which means that
going camping and the picnics and doing a bit of
adventuring is probably going to be a bit hard. And
she goes on to say, I can't get about like
my friend does. Yeah, what can I say to her?
Speaker 3 (45:45):
Well, I mean, particularly if this person is giving well
meaning advice, which I take from the text is sort
of implied, right, like you should or you'd feel better
if I think you know that, To find the directness
to be able to say, hey, I really appreciate you
trying to help, but physically I'm just not capable of
doing those things. But the challenge there will be things
(46:09):
that you are capable of doing. They may be very
they may be different things, but there will be community
opportunities to join things that may be less active, to
actually get alongside some people and find some ways to
connect because they will be there and maybe your friend
could even help you find those if they really wanted
to help.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
So even I mean just thinking about something that you do.
I mean, look, if the kind of things worth a
lot of movement aren't in your wheelhouse, maybe it could
be something as just sort of saying, we know we
don't have to go somewhere for the picnic, but if
you want to have lunch with me here, you know
you'd be most welcome, would love you to be here.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Or it could drive somewhere where there's a picnic table
with a nice view there you go park near it,
near it and sit out in nature. That way, Now
you think them now, because the thing is, I mean,
I know and I really actually take to take that
message a little wider. It can be a bit frustrating
if you are physically unable to be really active to
see all the kind of like exercise you'll feel better.
(47:08):
But I think the message to take from all of
that is it's always about doing a little bit more
than you do wherever you are. So that might be
just walking to the letter box, not running a marathon.
It might be getting out of your house and going somewhere,
and you're actually even just sitting and having a cup
of tea somewhere different, but finding ways to push yourself
out of your comfort bubble, whatever that might be.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
I don't like to bring this up, but I'm going
to throw your mind back to lockdown.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Yeah. And one thing that we did as a couple
because we still wanted to have you know, we want
to go for date night, just you know, we weren't
allowed to go anywhere, so you know, we dressed up
little parts of the house and the little corners of
our garden and you know, just brought out the paddle
boards one time and you know, pumped them up and
I got some stuff from our summer holiday and I said, hey,
(47:57):
remember when we did this on our summer holiday. And
we literally just sat on the on the peddle boards
and had some cheese and crackers and the memories came
back totally, and so it didn't feel didn't feel quite
as silly as it sounds. It was actually really enjoyable.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Yeah, could you engage with it in the right state
of mind, Donna.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
I hope that helps and all the best for you.
And look, I'm really sorry to hear about your COPD,
but lovely that you've got the friend coming around to
see you once a week. You know, friends make such
a big difference. So see what else you.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
Can do and validate the desire to help, because I
think that's important.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Let us know how you get on. I'd love to
hear from you. Quick text here from Jason. He just says, hi, guys.
Another New Zealand connection to Chariots a Fire Harold Abrahamams
Abrahams who won the gold right in one hundred meter
in the nineteen twenty four Olympics. So that's who charity
fire is about. He was the commentator when Jack love
(48:53):
Locke won the gold medal in nineteen thirty six Olympics.
That was Berlin, wasn't it. That was that was Yeah,
that's Hitler Olympics. Hitler Olympics. Yeah, it's a good way
to remember it. A you like thirty six, You're like,
what was happening in the world around? Okay, and he
goes It's quite an iconic piece of commentary. Cheers Jason.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
I haven't heard that that Olympics is famous, of course
for was it was the African America is a Jesse
Jesse John Jade that won all the track and field
events in front of Hitler, and it was all very
challenging for the Nazis.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
I think a lot of things probably know what I'm
talking about. I think a lot of things were challenging
for the Nazis to be fit. Anyway, that's it for
this episode of The Nutters Club. Thanks to everyone who contributed.
If you like what you heard and think it might
help someone out there, then please share this episode on
your own channels or with family and friends. And if
(49:48):
you ever want to be part of the show, give
us a call or text. When we broadcast live on
news Talk seed B eleven pm Sunday nights, New Zealand
standard time, check out news talk SeeDB dot co dotting
z for local frequencies or a link to the live stream.
A big thanks to New Zealand on Air for their
ongoing support and making the show, take care and always
(50:12):
remember the world's a better place with you in it.
Life that isn't easy, that is, however, worth it.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
For more from News Talks at b listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk SEDB. Follow
this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Greetings and welcome. I'm Hamish Williams and you're listening to
the podcast version of The Nutters Club, a radio show
broadcast on News Talk ZEDB that talks about mental health
and shares helpful tips about how to live with your own.
The show is broadcast live on Sunday nights on News
Talk seed B right across New Zealand and around the world.
(00:42):
Since two thousand and nine, Hot on the heels of
New Zealand's All Blacks winning a historic fifty first Test
match of rugby against beloved rivals South Africa's Springbok defending
what has become known as Fortress Eden aka Auckland's Eden Park,
(01:02):
my co hosts, psychotherapist Carl McDonald and I took the
opportunity to have a conversation about what the impact of
competitiveness can have on our mental health. What I took
away from the chat was that healthy competitiveness can drive growth,
however it must be balanced. Also that purpose and connection
(01:23):
are essential for mental well being, and that adaptability is
key to overcoming limitations let us know what you learned
from the chat on any of our social media platforms.
Just search for the Nutters Club enz last night last
night at Eden Park. My voice is holding out, but
(01:44):
if I'm a little horse, it's from having chaired very,
very loudly while I was in the Where was I?
I was in the East stand, the eastand just underneath
the big giant replay board with the score on it,
you know, I was underneath that. It was awesome, such
an amazing crowd, incredible experience, and was really lucky to
(02:08):
be there and felt very grateful to be so wonderful
people all around us from both sides of the supporter base. However,
the lead up, the lead up of the week to
this game was bordering on hysteria of the idea would
we win, would we lose? Would for tressed and fall?
(02:29):
Of course it wasn't going to but anyway, you would
have heard it if you've been listening to z'b at
all this week. I think every time I turned on
the radio or I was in the car driving around,
it was mentioned or brought up in some veiled way
every sort of twenty minutes or so. So if you've
been listening to it all week. You're probably happy to
hear that it's all done and dusted for now, But
(02:50):
I'd tell you what, it was such an anxiety inducing
prospect for me to go to that game last night
with all of this frenzy that had been whipped up
around it, that I had to take my psychotherapist along
with me. It was the only way to do it.
If you've never taken your psychotherapist to a rugby game,
highly recommend it. So of course he's my psychotherapist, he's
(03:14):
your psychotherapist. He's Carl McDonald. He's here in the studio
with me, Kyle. A good evening again, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Cured, what a what a wonderful evening that was last night.
And I'm a little bit croaky as well.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I feel like if you go to an AB's game
to be fair and you don't you know, and you're
not croaking the next the next day, he didn't give
it everything.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Oh look at the least we can do.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Hey, it's how else are they going to know? Which?
You know this is this is one of the things
I wanted to talk about tonight because obviously, like I
was just saying, you know, we were we were surrounded by,
you know, people who were cheering just as loudly, if
at points not louder. Then you know, for South Africa,
it's great, and it was and it was really really wonderful.
(03:57):
And I started to think about it though, and I
was like, yeah, but it's not always like this in
all parts of of the world and places right now,
I've been a few league games and I wonderful crowds
Phoenix Auckland Auckland Football Club, great crowds. But then if
you look at some of like you know, English football
(04:18):
and some of the you know, some of the European teams,
you know, they literally have to be in separate parts
of the stadium.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Yeah, like fenced away from each other, right, because it's
it's not safe, right, and that kind of competitiveness you
kind of go, well, hang on, that's bordering on a
bit unhealthy, isn't it. You know, the fact that you
you quite literally would like to hurt somebody because they
support a different sports team to you. Now, when I
put it like that, it sounds a little silly, But
(04:43):
if you were to put it to die hard fans
on the other side of the world in the UK,
and they just tell you that you don't fully understand
about how important these things are. And I wondered about
that the idea of sometimes like it can spill out
of being just in sports, right, this idea of competitiveness
and the comparison that we can have them. Yeah, yeah,
(05:05):
that the other people, right, and then idea of like
who's better. This competitiveness, right, it can sometimes be a
really strong driver for you to want to push yourself better. Right.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I mean, let's say you might be competing against somebody,
you know, not necessarily in sports, but maybe in the workplace,
maybe in life, somebody that you want to you know,
you've identified as you know, you want to do better
then for whatever reason. But at which point does it
stray when it comes to our mental health? Where can
(05:38):
competitiveness be good and where's the line where it can
actually potentially do harm?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Yeah, it's a really good question. I mean, I think,
you know, as we were talking about before we came
on air, it's one of those things that you know,
there's a bit of chat around about New Zealand values
at the moment. I think Andrew before us was diving
into that topic. I think about little Humble brag here
Hamish of the fifty one games at Eaton Park that
the All Blacks have won in that streak. I've been
(06:05):
to thirty six now last World Time, but thirty six
and I have never seen any issues in the crowd.
One of the things I really like about New Zealan's
attitude to spport is we do take it incredibly serious.
So you could argue, as you said hysteria, we take
our rugby far too seriously. A little bit less than
we used to, perhaps, but still, you know, we can
get a bit carried away. But we don't need to
(06:27):
put fences up between us and the Wallabies fans or
us in the spring Box fans, because you know, like
last night, there might be a little bit of a
cheeky comment or a bit of benter, but it's all
good natured and everyone's having a laugh, right And to me,
that's kind of the spirit of the game. Where it
tips over, I think is when people get too invested
in being part of a group that they then have
(06:51):
to defend that it actually becomes part of their identity
rather than actually something that is. Let's face it, and
I might get some reaction to this, but at the
end of the day, whether the All blakes, wind and
lows doesn't really matter. It doesn't really matter. We decide
that it matters, and we get very emotionally invested in it.
But one of the things I love about sports is
(07:12):
it doesn't any matter. At the end of the day,
the sun comes up, everybody moves on with their life,
you know. I mean, some politicians might say it affects
election outcomes, but you know, at sport, a sport, it's
supposed to be there as entertainment and actually, you know
more so for the overwhelming majority of people that play
it at lower levels, it's supposed to be fun.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
So in terms of competitiveness in our day to day lives, then,
now where can it work? Because it can work incredibly great,
you know, well for us to have a goal, and
you know, sometimes competing against the idea of it could
be something as simple as a deadline that you're competing against.
So that can be really good, right, that can be
really helpful. But at which point does that competitiveness, How
(07:57):
can that become something negative? For me?
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Well?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
I think it gets negative when and you know, this
is where I guess we come back to solid ground
and things that we talk about a lot on the
show is it becomes negative when we can start to
get regulated and our emotional responses to it, when we
start to feel overwhelmed. That might be because we've put
too much importance on it. You know, things can be important,
but sometimes we can blow them up way out of proportion.
(08:22):
We can also decide that somehow it's a measure of
our worth as a person. So, you know, I think
we often do this with careers and jobs. We see
ourselves as being worthy because we do a thing where
we are you know, a lawyer or a doctor or
a broadcaster or whatever. And actually a lot of times
I think we put too much emotional energy into those things.
And also I think, you know, perfectionism and that idea
(08:47):
that actually we have to get it all one hundred
percent right all of the time, as opposed to recognizing
that actually sometimes slipping up a bit teachers us some
really useful lessons and actually that's where the learning happens.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So what you're saying is that sometimes we can become
over competitiveness, sorry, over competitive with our own expectations of yourself.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah. Look, and I think we can see this play
out in lots of ways, right, I mean, you know,
sports that is a wonderful metaphor for life. And I think,
you know, how we approach kids sports is a great
example of this. You know that, actually, of course you
want your kids to win and to do well, and
you want to feel proud of them. But actually kids'
primary school age start playing sports because they want to
(09:31):
hang out with their mates and they're fun. Right, It's
for most kids, that's what it's about. So I always
feel a bit sad when the parents are sort of
getting a bit carried away on the sideline, because I think, well, actually,
it's not about you. It's you know, as a kid
having fun. And of course as they get older, it
gets more serious, and actually part of the fun is
being competitive and taking it seriously. But actually, I think
often it's about recognizing that we even in things that
(09:54):
are really serious, we have to be able to find
ways to enjoy them. And that's actually to find that
joy is part of what helps us regulate ourselves.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Let's go to the lines, Paul, good evening to you.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Good evening for you. My competitiveness began in the family.
My father was very much a little in my life,
even though he lived with the family and I was
I became highly competitive with my highly competitive brother. This
(10:28):
brought to my attention the destructive effect of competitiveness, and
I can't you know, I kind of later considered to
myself that life just isn't a competition. It isn't a
competition at all. And yet many feel they need to
(10:50):
prove something about themselves and in so doing be better
at something than someone else, or be better as a
person at someone else. And this is rather destructive. I feel,
you know, it's rather demeaning to be have a competitive
(11:14):
kind of energy about you, because it really reveals a
lack really of something you're trying to prove that you're not,
that you're bigger than this thing you fear inside you.
Those are my kind of takes on it, because I
(11:37):
know how destructive my own competitiveness became, and that affected
me deeply. It affected it, put up areas, It created
all sorts of problems for me, which is why I've
come to a view of being very aware of the
(11:59):
destructive side of an overly competitive mind. You know, everything
is a challenge everything, all the stakes are high, and
you have to prove this thing about yourself that you
know you're insecure about it. So you, you go out
(12:21):
and you compete, and yeah, and you try to prove
to yourself and others that this doesn't this is not you.
But you're better than that, and you're better than the
next guy and the next guy and the next guy.
You know, and you get the picture that I'm trying
to present.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah, I mean, I guess like in terms of the
idea of like, you know, is there anything wrong with
you know, wanting to be competitive. No, But I think
when when it becomes the source of your identity, you know,
I've got to be better than other people. Otherwise I don't.
I don't see any value in myself. That is when
(13:01):
it's very very damaging and I feel that, you know
often yeah, I've often said, you know, you're going to
find it very hard to find a duration and and
consistent value from, you know, from always winning or having
a duration from from people that you don't know. It's
often why it's only ever know, maybe two or three
(13:22):
people really close to us in our life are the
ones that we really feel that you know, true true
value from. And there's a word for that, and we
call it love.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And listen to what I realized, you
know that this was a sad thing about myself that
I you know, and one ti I'd realized that. I
certainly tried to rein it in and to address the
issue because I knew how limiting and how futile it was,
(13:55):
and and it wasn't good for setting out good connections
with people.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
You know, Yeah, gotcha, gotcha? So so when did you
come to that realization, Paul? It was point in your life.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Probably I've had a mental I'm seventy three and I've
had a mental health journey of fifty years. I would
say for that fifty years, I was very competitive. Probably
two serids of the way through my mental health journey,
I started to address it because I became aware of it.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yes, and I'd.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Result certain things within the family. So that meant that
I didn't feel the desire or need or urge to
compete so strongly. I'm out for I'm all up for
sports and friendly competition. But as you say, don't stake
(15:00):
your well being on it, don't stake who you are
as a person on it.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
That's amazing insight, Paul, Yeah, and I really agree with that. Look,
that's that's a wonderful guiding light for this conversation tonight.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
I mean, one of the things that I think is
really important. I just want to check it into the
conversation too. Is this very easy with competitiveness to think individualistically,
But actually when it comes to innovation, when it comes
to the wonderful things that human beings have done, often
we focus on that person that you know, did the thing, sure,
and but split the atom or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Rutherford, Sir Ernest Rutherford, he's on our hundred dollar night.
He certainly is born in Richmond Tessman District. There.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
I would venture forth that even sir Ernest Rutherford on
our hundred dollar bill would have had a whole team,
whether that was people who taught him, people who learned
from or people who supported them in his journey. Because
actually collaboration is as important as when we start to
think about competition, is how do we actually have people
on board with us, take them with us. So maybe
we're talking about team sports rather than individual sports.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
I think that very few things in life are actually
done in isolation.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
You know, whatever the achievement is, somebody had to teach
you that skill, somebody had to tell you that it was,
you know, Gill never do this and you're like, wow,
I'm going to you know, that kind of competitiveness, there's
always other people involved in it. You don't do it
on your own.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
To slide back to rugby for a moment, Ardie so
Via did not win that Test match on his own
last night. There's fourteen other people on the field and
countless other people off the field who players, supporters, dietitians, trainers, families, partners, kids.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I mean, as kids came on to the field afterwards,
and you know, it was just lovely to see. Yep,
you can't tell me. I mean, actually, I remember a
professional rugby player who I knew down and Dunedin. He'll
remain nameless at this point, but I said to him,
what's the hardest thing about being being a professional rugby player?
And he said my kids picking up my kids from
(17:04):
school on a Monday the weekend after we lost a game,
because and his kids were primary school age. Yeah, you know,
and guess what was that being said in the playground.
I have to imagine my dad says, your dad's a loser.
Now pretty hard, you know, pretty horrible for the kids.
I mean, and let's call it what it is. It's
bullying totally. And what would happen though, is that he'd
(17:26):
have to pick his kids up and then they'd be
upset and they'd be like, Dad, could you please try
and win this weekend? Please? Because it was really hard.
They actually did go on to become an All Black.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Yeah, that's rough though, I mean, I mean, I don't know.
Maybe I'm idealistic. I'd like to think that kind of
stuffs change, but maybe it hasn't.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Well, look it was twenty years ago. Yeah, so you'd
like to think, but that that kind of competitiveness, the
idea of running people down when they don't meet your expectations,
that's not okay because again, we don't operate in isolation,
so we actually need to support each other.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I agree. Wanting to win is not the same thing
as punishing people when they lose.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And I'm trying to actually remember because you know, we've
had various various sporting people actually we have on the
show over the years, often after they've retired. Day Yeah, yeah,
that's it comes to comes to mind, and you know
we had it was Borrows. I'm trying to remember who
it was. Was it Phil Gurney? Phil Phil Gurney who yeah.
(18:24):
Phil Gurney who ran the Spates Coast to Coast. Oh yeah, yeah,
years ago. There's a competitive man. Well he won it
nine times. He won it nine times and then had
some kind of injury which meant that he couldn't do
it for the tenth time, and he fell into some
inredibly deep depression because he had become so focused and
(18:48):
obsessed with the idea was well, yeah, he was Phil Gurney,
the Spates Coast to Coast guy. And that's not an
easy race if you don't know what it is. Yeah,
you run from well you you run, swim sayak, I
don't know if you swim, you definitely run, definitely kayak.
Kayak can bike up over.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
The Southern Alps, start on the East coast. Finished and
christ churche more.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, yes, And so essentially you go from the weast
coast of the South Island to the East coast and
it's a very gruel and taste in a day. Yeah,
and people train for years, not just a few months.
Like people trained for years to get to the level
to be able to do this. And he won it
nine times a row, yes, but he couldn't win it
(19:35):
a tenth after he had this injury and it sent
him into a deep depression because so much of his
identity had become wrapped up and the idea, I'm Steve Gurney,
SPS Spates Coast Coast guy, and I'm going to win
ten of these Now, the fact that he won nine
was an incredible achievement, absolutely, but he couldn't bring himself
(19:55):
to really struggled with it to reconcile that it was
never going to be ten. Now. Ultimately he came to
accept that nine was actually really impressive and he should
just be super happy about it.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Will be unbreakable.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I doubt I doubt anybody would would have the you know,
the role especially. I think it's even just the motivation
toward do it. You know, it's a huge number. It's
a massive commitment.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
But it illustrates some of the things we've been talking about, right,
which is what's the what's the dark side? To put
it that way of competitiveness, I mean that the positive
side is obvious right, clearly he was an incredible sportsman,
endurance athlete, said an incredible record that will probably never
be broken and shone the light. I think, you know,
I've got a couple of mates who've done the tea
(20:41):
version or the two day version of the Coast to
Coast because it was so popular, and part of that
popularity was him, right, So all of that positive flow
on effect but actually had a personal cost to him
because he was so locked on to it having to
be a certain way.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I just got a text, thank you very much, not
fell Gurney. Steve Gurney. Yeah that sounds right. Yeah, it
sounds better, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Yeah, I mean we're not the sports broadcasters, but I
should remember past guest names. So look, thank you very much, Yes,
Steve Gurney.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And so the idea that, you know, we start putting
this pressure on ourselves. I always come up with that saying,
you know, comparison is the thief of joy.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Totally.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, And it's something that we do a lot in
our mental health. You know. Oh, I saw so and
so posted some photos online. Looks like they had a
wonderful weekend. Their life is so much better than mine.
And what we don't realize is that, yeah, okay, you
saw the nice photos, but you didn't see the argument
that happened, you know, twenty seconds after the photo was taken,
(21:40):
or the fact that the people who you know who
were taking that photo were actually really struggling on some
other front at the moment because they've got some massive
bills that they're struggling to pay.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Well, let me check some research at you and brief
there's a whole field of research that looks at what
are the effects of societal inequality? Right, the comparison stuff
we had, lots of people are rich and there's a
big spread of money, you know, like so America being
generally agreed upon as the most unequal country in the world.
What we know is that it actually has a negative
impact on all sorts of mental health diagnoses and addictions
(22:12):
and things. We know that that's kind of like old news, right.
The thing that always amazed me about that, though, is
that when you look at the top ten percent, so
the most wealthy in unequal countries and the top ten
percent and less unequal countries. Right, generally your Scandinavian countries,
even the most wealthy in unequal countries are less happy
(22:36):
than those in more equal countries. Now that at first
class doesn't make much sense.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
It's blowing my mind because the.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Whole myth with you know, competitiveness and get more and
save more and you know, be more successful. It will
make you happy. But competition in that way, in terms
of fearing fear of losing it all, there's always more
to get, right, there's always the tenth race to win. Actually,
some of the competitiveness stuff is actually also finding ways
to be satisfied with what we do have and being
(23:02):
grateful for where we are.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
So how do we go about that being able to
actually you know that that necessary, you know, unnecessary competitiveness
because you know, I get it. I mean, I've I've
had periods in my life where you know, you've you've
had kind of I don't know, I mean I think
there was a couple of times where there was something
that I really wanted to get my hands on, and
you know, then you end up getting it and then
(23:27):
it's done and it's not a thing anymore, and it
just sits there and stares back at you. So how
do we go about trying to eliminate that from our
live you know, and actually find that, as you were saying,
you know, find that more balanced and equal way of
looking at things.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Well, some of it comes back to that old gem
of gratitude, right of being able to focus on what
we already have and to be grateful for the things
that we do have. But I think with competitiveness, it's
about being realistic, right, It's about setting goals and realizing
that ultimately we're only competing with ourselves, and that kind
of competition with ourselves we think of a self improvement.
I think, so setting those realistic goals and allowing ourselves
(24:04):
to enjoy when we get there, right, because that's the
other thing, enjoying winning nine races or do we focus
on getting to the tenth? And so actually, how can
we take that time to have some enjoyment in the
experience of getting there? And often I think, again no
surprise to listeners at this show that I think a
lot of that comes down to who are the people
(24:26):
that we go on the journey with. How do we
make sure that, no matter what we do that's competitive,
we actually enjoy the connections that we foster along the
way and the memories that we create.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
So in terms of being able to actually have some
kind of measure for that, what are some of the
things that we should be thinking about. Is it really
does it come down to who am I spending my
time with? Who am I talking to?
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah? Absolutely, and you know, again focusing on you know,
we don't want to get rid of competitiveness. You know,
people will say, oh, you know, that's okay for kids
to lose all the time. Now it's like, well, no,
of course getting better is important, but getting better relative
to ourselves and having realistic expectations is really important. Making
(25:08):
sure that we're setting those realistic goals for ourselves based
on what we want for ourselves, what's realistic, what will
make us happy, not on what you know the neighbors
have got or what we see on the old Instagram feed.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, so being able to actually have some realistic markers
for ourselves and actually just more being content for your
own satisfaction because ultimately, you know, if you go and
buy the new car, no one really cares that much.
Somebody might ask you, Kyle, is that a new car?
Speaker 4 (25:39):
No.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
The happiness researchers talk about the fact that the happiness
bump from buying a new car lasts about as long
as the new car smell.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, it's something like it's less than seven days, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
A little bit longer than that, It's about about four weeks,
but it's not very long. It doesn't matter how expensive
the car is, because ultimately a car, this is the
car A to B.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
He Well, I mean, look, there are car enthusiasts out
here one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
And I think that that comes back to gratefulness actually
to being able to focus on what you've got rather
than the act of getting it. Yes, So if cars
are really your thing and it's still bringing you pleasure,
it's probably because you're still paying attention to it in
a particular kind of way.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
I think one space that this gets really interesting, and
we've talked a little bit about it in the last hour,
is when our identity becomes all wrapped up on it.
And sometimes it can be where we project our identity
as well. A lot of the times and obviously, you know, yesterday,
we're going to say yesterday now because it was yesterday.
Yesterday was Father's Day. And sometimes, you know, parents especially
(26:43):
can find their identity in the successful the success of
their kids, especially you know kids sport, not just sport though,
whether or not your kid makes the makes you know,
the lead, and the school drama, drama that they're going
to put on, or what else is there. There's all
(27:03):
sorts of things that go on at schools and trying
to remember off the top of my academic cups. Oh,
the academic cups. Yeah, the prize giving at the end
of the year. You know Mike had grif Oh yes,
oh yeah, yeah. Prefix that gets all that gets a
bit hairy at times. And so suddenly you've got all
these parents that suddenly get competitive with each other over
how you know their kids are going. And sometimes that
(27:27):
can be really hard, mostly for the kid. The idea
that that sometimes they don't want to let mum or
dare down by not actually meeting the expectations, not being competitive.
I guess it's the idea though of like, you know,
if you're going through life, that you want to actually
make sure that you find the motivation to do to
(27:49):
do things. And so perhaps, Kyle, the other thing I'm
interested to find out about from you your perspective is
where can we if not from you know, I need
to feel as though I have been better than others,
which is totally something that people do think. You know,
I mean, I guess I'm doing well, I'm doing better
than so and so that I went to school with. Right,
What are some other more sort of healthier sources of
(28:12):
motivation to be able to propel ourselves forward with our
day to day rather than having to be at the
idea that there was a winner and a loser and
therefore that's what I needed to do.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Well, it's a great question. I mean, I think two
of the things that come to mind. The first one
when you were talking about parents and competing via our
children or getting ourselves esteem via our children's success is
again I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with that
if we're clear that what we're doing is encouraging the
things that they are naturally inclined to do. So where
(28:46):
I can where I've seen this over the years go
sideways when people turn up in their thirties or forties,
is they realize that, actually, let's take a real cliche
example that actually I'm just a doctor because my dad
really wanted me to be a doctor like him, But
actually I don't like medicine, you know. So it's that
thing of like, actually, how do you connect with your
kids in a way that encourages them to get to
(29:08):
know themselves? And how do you get to know them
for the person that they are and the talents and
abilities that they have and encourage those things towards which
they are naturally inclined, because life's a lot easier if
you do what comes naturally. And then second of all,
I would say, well, actually, I always challenge it when
it comes up in the consulting room when people say
(29:29):
to me, oh, you know, but so and so down
the road or everyone else seems like they've got their
lives to get it, and I'm like, no, no, no,
trust me, they really don't. But it looks like it
from the outside because they've got the nice car in
the driveway, and they've got the nice house, and their
kids go to the nice school, and everyone seems calm,
But you don't know what goes on inside their heads
(29:49):
or inside their lives. And so actually, you know, the
one thing that we know that predicts lifelong happiness is
the quality of your relationships, the quality of your connections
you're foster with people.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Well, look, I'd love to hear from you on this tonight.
So eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
number of you know, having healthy relationships with people to
be able to actually have a general sense of self
worth from the fact that you know you've got those
good people in your life. I'd love to hear from
anyone who's had that experience in terms of knowing what
(30:24):
that looked like. Who were those people that were able
to really make that difference for you because often, you know,
the others can actually run down too. The competitiveness can
come another way was when other people put you down?
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Yeah, totally. And you know, I mean we're just to
wander back briefly for a moment, go for it to
the All Blacks. One of the things that's impressed me
about the evolution of how that team's culture has changed
over the years that I've been a rugby tragic There
was epitomized on Sunday night by Ardie Sava's cat presentation.
His wife presented it to him, not the coach, not
(30:59):
the chairman of the rugby board, but his partner and
his kids were there, and his family were there, and
the team spoke about him. The coach was nobody to
be seen. There was no officials. They were there, but
they weren't front and the center because actually it was
about who were the people that mattered to him connection.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
And there they were front and center.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
YEP.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Part of it, you know, in terms of what we've
been talking about, Texas has come in here and says
I'm so hard on myself that whenever a person expects
me to do something for them, I have much higher standards.
I started off a few years ago doing it twenty
one kilometer half marathon walks. Then I dropped it back
(31:42):
to ten kilometer walks. Now I can only do five
kilometer walks at the same event, anyone can walk five kilometers.
I use those walks to get out of town and
have a week end away for myself, and I've been
doing it for seven years now or more.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Well, Look, I think it's great because one of the
you know, it actually highlights something that I've been thinking
about since I've turned fifty. Because, of course, the other
thing with competitive as it changes across your life, right,
what we can do changes, and so that's why it's
always we're always competing with ourselves. Actually, as long as
we're striving to do what works for us, and that's
all that matters.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I would argue that the competition there is the consistency.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Absolutely, and recognizing it's not about the distance, but it's
about the experience.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
And the fact that you've been able to consistently organize
yourself a week end away to go and do something
and you've done that for seven years. Well that's amazing.
That's a whole achievement and of itself.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
And I bet that person's met a lot of people
along the way, had a lot of experiences and got
a lot of great memories.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Well, I mean, look, you know, if you're walking, you
can talk, right, yep. Five k's though, what would a
five k walk take you? On average? It will be
about half half an hour?
Speaker 3 (32:56):
No, it depends how first you're walking.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Well, and I'm trying to think, you know, I walk.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Google walk speeds for four kilometers an hour, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
So it's probably it's probably more. Yeah, you're looking at
just under an hour. Yeah, we have a good chat
with somebody in and out totally. That's what we do
on the show. We have chat with people, especially when
they call up.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
We could work. We could probably get close to ten
k walk on this show.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
If we were walking, let's take the show on the
road car.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Or just get some treadmills in here.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Just get some treadmills in here. I don't know if
we need to be doing that. We could get a
little a little sweaty, and it's it's hot enough in here.
In this room tonight. Is this all right? Let's go
to the lines. Jay, good morning to you, Good morning team.
Speaker 5 (33:34):
I'm joined the session again tonight. I decided to bring
up a couple of contributions and go for it. I
lost my dad when I was three years old, and
I went through a hard time trying us to help
my mum and I had no brothers or and my
sister was taken away. But what I found is that
(33:57):
stuff a lot of rejection. And so what I did.
I strive to do everything really well, and I was
really competitive and I was quite good at things. But
I found it over the years as at older, that
a lot of people have you for your talents, to
contribute to the team or whatever, but a lot of
people really still didn't really want to know you as
(34:18):
a person. So they suffered fit with a toxic chain
going around to people most places and they went home
or the mother said, oh, they're not there, but they
were there. They used to away out the window and
I thought were walking away. Film but sad. And one
thing that totally teared me around was I saw this
amazing film. I don't know anyone on the program community.
(34:41):
It was a film called Chariots of Fire.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Chariots of Fire, Yes, classic, Yes.
Speaker 5 (34:48):
And that teared me around because there's a brilliant film
and I really affected. I actually don't crazy, but I
got quite emotional because it was touching my personally. And
so one guy that was all out. So when one
hundred meters front and the other guy was a neat
guy found ot later was a commit of Christian and
(35:09):
he would run on the Sunday. But he ran and
he ran and he ran. And what made me he
ran a joy in his heart because he had a
main purpose look forward to. But the other guy ran
and won one hundred meter sprint, but then after he
was devastated because he didn't have anything deep in his
life and all the imagies he put them to be
(35:31):
competitive to win the hundred meter sprint. And what I
learned from that lesson is that you need to learn
how to be content with little or a lot. And
that's what changed my life because from that point on,
I decided I was going to serve and help other
people and encourage him and encourage a love to encourage
(35:52):
people in many ways, whether giving gifts or food or
maybe sharing talking just being here, and I found learning
to serve others has bought a lot of joy and
peace and it stopped me from being Madi very competitive.
So I'm just stilling seventy now and I'm a lot
happier in my whole life because I've learned how to
(36:14):
serve and I've got a purpose and I know, Aroun,
I'm heading when I die. So I'm really pretty rap
and I'm really enjoying the meeting. The meeting tonight as
we're sharing as a great because a lot of people
listen to this meeting on a Sunday night, and mental
health is a huge thing because people are very lost
out there and they need to have support people that
(36:36):
really love and care for them as a person. And
it makes a big difference to it a little bit
tonight to help a lot other comments about charity of
five that helped other people.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Yeah, I thank you, and I love what you're saying
about purpose. It's not something that we've touched on tonight,
but it's incredibly important. Like you say, it's not enough
to do the thing, but you've got to have a
reason why as well.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
There you go, be a little bit of Chariots of
five for you.
Speaker 6 (37:05):
Lovely, this one's for you, Jay, the song that carried
a movie that changed your life.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
I've got the slow motion running scene in my mind's
eye as the music plays.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Tell you what I'm gonna do, some slow motion running
as we go to the break. We'll be back soon.
Here I'm the Nudders Club. Hey, welcome back to the show.
Just a little bit of a little bit of trivia
if we're there from our producer, but Boris.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
It's amazing what he could put out of their head
of this.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
So you know, we were just talking about Chariots a Fire. Yeah,
if you don't know the story of Chariots a Fire,
it's about the nineteen twenty four Summer Olympics one hundred
meters sprint running running and about the guy who won it.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
What you may not know, Kyle, and what I did
not know, indeed until about two minutes ago, was that
the man who came third in that race, the bronze medal,
bronze medle. Was it key we get out Arthur portt So,
Arthur Port quite interesting. He was a physician, He was
(38:14):
a military surgeon.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
He was probably served in World War One today imagine.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yeah, yeah, it looks like it. And he won the
bronze medal at the nineteen twenty four Summer Olympics and
one hundred meters sprint. But wait for it. He was
the eleventh Governor General of New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yeah, from nineteen sixty seven to nineteen seventy two. He
was also he's one that the late sixties okay, yep,
but he isn't something that he was number one in
He was the first New Zealand born person to ever
hold the office of Governor General.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Wow, that's interesting. So the first New Zealand Board governor
General wasn't until nineteen sixty seven.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
It's correct. So they used to kind of just send
somebody over to fly and from old mother England, from
the Empire. Yeah, from the Empire, go and sort those
Qis out and Antipodeans bloody colonials. Yeah. No, they did
say that literally seen somebody down here and usually be
a mative of somebody's because.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Now, I mean it's always a keeping right in Australia
and so on since sixty seven sixty seven.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so Arthur por it.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
He sounds like a good bloke.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
I really liked what Jay had to say though in
that last call when yeah, he was saying, Actually, we
and this is what I'm interested to find out from
your perspective, cale is do we get a little bit confused?
Actually we think that the you know, that feeling of
competitiveness me versus the world that's actually giving me a
bit of purpose. But it's kind of you're close, but
(39:45):
you're not quite all the way there. And so actually,
when we talk about purpose, what is that and what
is it doing that aids how mental health?
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Well, it's about the why are we doing it? Right?
So I mean I think, you know, I think it
was a really great call because what it highlighted is
the difference between a purpose less competitiveness, right, versus actually
doing it for it for a deeper reason. Service of
course being one version of what that is right doing
things for others. But you know, I mean the examples money, Right,
(40:17):
Money can be a purpose if it leads to other things.
But money in and off itself is a purpose I
think often fails us because money on its own, the
accumulation of money for the sake of accumulating money, ultimately,
it is quite hollow. I think what we can do
with money, that's an entirely different matter, right, And so,
you know, I think a lot of people who have
(40:38):
accumulated wealth can have quite a purpose driven life if
they then contribute, whether that be through trusts or you know, charities,
or doing all sorts of good good in the world. Similarly,
I think, you know, we might find the purpose in
going off to a job that we really struggle with
and knowing that we're putting food on the table for
our kids and family. Finding that reason why can be
(40:59):
a great way to keep ourselves going and to buffer
ourselves against the rough bits of competition.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
It's interesting you say that, because you know, in terms
of like what you can do with it. I know
a guy who's reasonably wealthy, and you know, probably if
he never worked another day in his life now, he'd
be fine. He's a bit older, but he volunteers a
lot of his time so much that the organization that
he volunteers at people actually think he works there but
(41:27):
don't even understand that, you know, because he likes it.
But he's here so much and doing so much. And
then they're sort of like, well, yeah, but he's still
actually just volunteering his time and so but that has
become the purpose. And then when you actually think about that,
You're like, wow, so you've got somebody actually giving so
much of their time because they're passionate they want to help.
(41:47):
That's a connection and community part. The competitiveness part of
it has ceased to have any value in terms of like, well,
you know, is it me versus somebody else as to
who can get the next job or make the next
great grand business, do you or whatever it is, because
you've already got to that point nowunt there's majority of
(42:10):
us probably not in that position. However, we can do
our own little versions of that in our own way
to be able to have out and have purpose.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Absolutely, and we've touched on kids sports tonight as an
example of how this can go a bit sideways, right,
But let's talk about the positive version of that. You know,
we went and watched a bunch of very well paid
professional sportsmen on Saturday night. Underneath that is thousands of
people who give hundreds of thousands of hours of their
own time voluntarily, whether that be coaching or you know,
(42:41):
playing or referering at different levels of the game and
across all sports. Like you know, I've got two girls,
so netball's kind of the game in our house and
my partner does a lot of the coaching and stuff,
but it's a big time commitment. But what do you
get out of that community connection. You get to know people,
You get to know the other kids, you get to
(43:02):
know the other parents, and you start to have those
shared experiences which actually, over time have a lot of
me and give you a lot of purpose. Right because,
especially with the team that you might sort of coach
through a number of different years, you see these kids
grow up and you see the people they become.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
There's something magic about the fact that a whole bunch
of individuals can organize themselves to turn up at the
same spot at the same time to put on some
sort of you know, concocted you know, past time that's
got some rules and regulations, and that most people are
more than willing to give and to do this.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
So you turn up at the old Saint John's Courts
or here in Auckland, out East Auckland, and it is
a machine. You know, we're talking like fifty odd courts.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's amazing. But again it comes back
to when you know, we're talking about our mental health here.
The fact is that people do this because it actually
makes them feel good.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Absolutely to be part of something and to challenge yourself.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
And you keep coming back, as you say, because it
keeps making you feel good. So in terms of like,
you know, what's what's happening and firing off in your
brain and happening, and we actually bring this back to
the big picture of that's great, hey, Mish and Kyle,
but how does this relate to mental health? The idea
is actually the competition when we're talking about sports, is
just an excuse to get together and spend a bit
of time.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Absolutely, and you know, to take it one step further.
Sometimes those days where you don't feel like getting out
of bed and turning up at the court, you do
it for the rest of your team because that's part
of being in a community, part of being a team.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Who knows you might feel better after a couple of ours.
Got a really interesting text here, Kyle. Okay, in terms
of what we've just talked about, which is, hey, get
out and have some fun and do some sport and
you know, community connection. It could all work.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Sure it sounds great in the theory, but then life happens. Yeah, Okay,
this is that Donn has texted and this is actually
a really good example that she says, I'm sixty six
and I have a friend who comes to see me
once a week. She goes on about going out camping,
going on picnics and seeing places, and it saddens me.
(45:07):
Is I live with c p D. Now, if you
don't know what that is, I just looked it up.
It's chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, which is like a respiratory.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Thing cong Yeah, so pulmonary being lung. So it's a
lung disorder that affects your ability to breathe effectively. You know,
it slows you down in terms of your breathing and
your ability to function.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Okay, so you've got a health issue, which means that
going camping and the picnics and doing a bit of
adventuring is probably going to be a bit hard. And
she goes on to say, I can't get about like
my friend does. Yeah, what can I say to her?
Speaker 3 (45:45):
Well, I mean, particularly if this person is giving well
meaning advice, which I take from the text is sort
of implied, right, like you should or you'd feel better
if I think you know that, To find the directness
to be able to say, hey, I really appreciate you
trying to help, but physically I'm just not capable of
doing those things. But the challenge there will be things
(46:09):
that you are capable of doing. They may be very
they may be different things, but there will be community
opportunities to join things that may be less active, to
actually get alongside some people and find some ways to
connect because they will be there and maybe your friend
could even help you find those if they really wanted
to help.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
So even I mean just thinking about something that you do.
I mean, look, if the kind of things worth a
lot of movement aren't in your wheelhouse, maybe it could
be something as just sort of saying, we know we
don't have to go somewhere for the picnic, but if
you want to have lunch with me here, you know
you'd be most welcome, would love you to be here.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Or it could drive somewhere where there's a picnic table
with a nice view there you go park near it,
near it and sit out in nature. That way, Now
you think them now, because the thing is, I mean,
I know and I really actually take to take that
message a little wider. It can be a bit frustrating
if you are physically unable to be really active to
see all the kind of like exercise you'll feel better.
(47:08):
But I think the message to take from all of
that is it's always about doing a little bit more
than you do wherever you are. So that might be
just walking to the letter box, not running a marathon.
It might be getting out of your house and going somewhere,
and you're actually even just sitting and having a cup
of tea somewhere different, but finding ways to push yourself
out of your comfort bubble, whatever that might be.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
I don't like to bring this up, but I'm going
to throw your mind back to lockdown.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Yeah. And one thing that we did as a couple
because we still wanted to have you know, we want
to go for date night, just you know, we weren't
allowed to go anywhere, so you know, we dressed up
little parts of the house and the little corners of
our garden and you know, just brought out the paddle
boards one time and you know, pumped them up and
I got some stuff from our summer holiday and I said, hey,
(47:57):
remember when we did this on our summer holiday. And
we literally just sat on the on the peddle boards
and had some cheese and crackers and the memories came
back totally, and so it didn't feel didn't feel quite
as silly as it sounds. It was actually really enjoyable.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Yeah, could you engage with it in the right state
of mind, Donna.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
I hope that helps and all the best for you.
And look, I'm really sorry to hear about your COPD,
but lovely that you've got the friend coming around to
see you once a week. You know, friends make such
a big difference. So see what else you.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
Can do and validate the desire to help, because I
think that's important.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Let us know how you get on. I'd love to
hear from you. Quick text here from Jason. He just says, hi, guys.
Another New Zealand connection to Chariots a Fire Harold Abrahamams
Abrahams who won the gold right in one hundred meter
in the nineteen twenty four Olympics. So that's who charity
fire is about. He was the commentator when Jack love
(48:53):
Locke won the gold medal in nineteen thirty six Olympics.
That was Berlin, wasn't it. That was that was Yeah,
that's Hitler Olympics. Hitler Olympics. Yeah, it's a good way
to remember it. A you like thirty six, You're like,
what was happening in the world around? Okay, and he
goes It's quite an iconic piece of commentary. Cheers Jason.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
I haven't heard that that Olympics is famous, of course
for was it was the African America is a Jesse
Jesse John Jade that won all the track and field
events in front of Hitler, and it was all very
challenging for the Nazis.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
I think a lot of things probably know what I'm
talking about. I think a lot of things were challenging
for the Nazis to be fit. Anyway, that's it for
this episode of The Nutters Club. Thanks to everyone who contributed.
If you like what you heard and think it might
help someone out there, then please share this episode on
your own channels or with family and friends. And if
(49:48):
you ever want to be part of the show, give
us a call or text. When we broadcast live on
news Talk seed B eleven pm Sunday nights, New Zealand
standard time, check out news talk SeeDB dot co dotting
z for local frequencies or a link to the live stream.
A big thanks to New Zealand on Air for their
ongoing support and making the show, take care and always
(50:12):
remember the world's a better place with you in it.
Life that isn't easy, that is, however, worth it.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
For more from News Talks at b listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
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