May 30, 2024 • 31 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The jury is deliberating in the Donald Trump trial. They've
now asked for the transcripts of several of the witnesses,
which means we will probably have a delay until we
actually get a verdict because they're going back to look
through testimony and transcripts. But what was shocking is how
the judge went completely outside the scope what its job
(00:24):
is when it came to the orders that they were
given on the jury. He went completely outside the scope
of how a traditional jury.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Is supposed to look at a case. So what do
I mean by that?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Well, the judge basically gave the jury one of three
options to convict violation number one of federal election Law,
number two, falsification of business documents number three tax law violations.
He also said it didn't have to be unanimous on
those three options. The jury is basically getting unlimited leeway
(00:59):
to find a way to find Donald Trump guilty of something.
A guilty verdict, by the way, he could actually look
like this. Four members agree on option one, four members
of great option two, or four members agree on option three.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
The judge says he will take.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
That as in essence a unanimous vote, since it's twelve
agreeing to either one of those three options. That is
not how it normally works in a court case. Obviously,
Donald Trump would be able to appeal the conviction immediately,
but the Democrats just need to convict them so they
can run against him being a convicted felon.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Between now and November.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Everyone knows this is going to be overturned on appeal,
There's no.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
But the fact that the New York judge Merchant told
the jurors that they do not have to unanimously agree
on what crime Trump.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Is guilty of. It could be a four to four to.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Four split is something I've never heard of in my
entire life when it comes to a court case, much
less one as important at this one is I want
you to hear from Donald Trump and what he had
to say outside the courthouse. I also want you to
hear what the legal experts have said about this shocking
(02:22):
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Speaker 2 (04:41):
Now, I want you to hear what.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Some of the scholars had to say about the judge's
absolute disregard for the law, for precedents of how a
court case is supposed to happen. Listen to this as
Harris Faulkner talking about the shock of the order given
to the jury.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Something in particular that this judge said that these jurors
could do. He just delivered what is being called really
the pinnacle of all of this. He said that there
is no need to agree on what has occurred. They
can disagree on what the crime was among the three choices.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Thus, this means that they could.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Split four four four and the judge would still treat
them unanimously.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
What does that mean, Well.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
It's really outrageous because in a normal criminal case, every
statutory crime has what we call elements of the offense,
Like in a bad robbery case, it's you know, you
have to rob it's got to be a financial institution,
you have to show intent. Those are the things the
jury has to agree on unanimously that they were proved
(05:51):
beyond a reasonable doubt. Here, what we're doing is taking
the element that actually makes this a felony, because remember,
falsification of records is normally a misdemeanor in New York.
What makes it a felony is that you're concealing or
committing another crime. And here the judges telling them they
don't have to agree about what the other crime is
(06:14):
under circumstances where that not only is what makes this
a felony, which makes it a four year potential prison penalty.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Rather than a year or less.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
But it's also what gets us into the courtroom because
if this had been a misdemeanor, the time to bring
this case would have lapsed in twenty nineteen. So the
only reason they're still able to bring this case is
because it's a felony allegedly. And yet now the judge
is saying, you know, you don't have to agree on
what the felony is.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
You don't have to agree on what the felony is.
In translation, they made it all up. So if you
look at where we are right now, it is number
one shocking that the judge in this case told the
jury they don't have to unanisily agree on which crime
was committed as long as they all at least pick
one crime, and that among the crimes that they can
(07:07):
pick our ones. Trump wasn't even charged with. Now, this
is exactly what kind of a sham trial looks like.
Marco Rubio put it out and said, this is I'm
going to quotehim. He said, this is exactly the kind
of sham trial that trial used against political opponents of
(07:27):
the regime in the old Soviet Union. Is the way
that he described it. He again is absolutely right. So
where are we? The jury deliberations in the Trump trial
ended Wednesday for the day with no verdict.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Reached and a judge who is.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Now running a sham trial in the same way that
Russia the old Soviet Union used to go after their
political opponents. So judge telling you, hey, you guys can
you don't have to be unanimous against any of these crimes.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
You guys pick and choose which ones you like. We
don't really care.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
And among the crimes that you can pick from are
ones that Trump wasn't even charged with, and we're totally
good with it.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
You guys, just give me a guilty verdict.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
By the way, if you want to know how excited
the left was after the judge went rogue in the
same way they went in the USSR Andrew Weissman on
MSNBC put it this way, as you've noted.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
With despection Judge Marshaan, I mean, I am, I'm like, no,
you know, I felt like a man.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Crush on him. He is such a great.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Judge that it's hard to see that the jurors wouldn't
have the same impression. And he's just you just keep
on thinking if you looked in a dictionary for judicial temperament,
that's what you get with.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I mean, this is this is Russia, right like, like
they should be proud, this is this is truly.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
A Russian move.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Let me just give you some other legal experts and
what they've said about what just happened. Jonathan Turley said
he has ruled that the jury will not be giving
copies of the instructions, but.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Can ask for them to be read to them.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Again, like he basically doesn't want this in writing, the
judge is giving this standard instructions that they can reach
inferences based on facts, such as inferring that it rained
from seeing people in raincoats. It is a rather Quinn instruction.
After Merchant allowed the prosecutors to state as a fact
(09:41):
that federal election violations occurred in this case.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
This is again coming from Jonathan Turley.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
There is no such violation in this case, but Merchant
did nothing to correct the erroneous impression to carry Ford
the analogy Senglass was just yelling at the jury that
there was a virtual hurricane on a p sunny day,
but the judge remained entirely silent. He went on to
also say this merchant also instructed that they may consider
(10:11):
the interests of the witness and the outcome of the case.
One of the least convincing parts of closing arguments the
prosecution was a claim that Michael Cohen was attacking Trump
and selling merchandise.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
To feed his family.
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Speaker 2 (12:15):
All right now.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
The sand Glass portrayed Cohen as struggling in his luxury,
multimillion dollar condo while making millions. It was a far
crime from the pushing a food cart down Broadway to
support his family. But when you have a rigged juror
a rig trial, this is what you do at the
very end of it. So if if he hasn't been
(12:38):
charged with the crime, charge him with a crime.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
If you think he's guilty.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Of something, then just figure out a way to find
him guilty for something else. These are the instructions of
the judge. The judges say that he wants to stay
close to standard instructions. The problem is the case anything
but standard. And now you got a real problem, and
that is that you have.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
A judge that's insane. A court case is insane.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
And the fact that you give jurors payper instructions every time,
but this time you don't tells you just how rigged
it actually is. I want you to listen to a
guy Benson, guy's a friend of mine at Fox. He
said this about his worry for the outcome of this case,
and I couldn't agree with him more.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Listen, and the.
Speaker 6 (13:28):
Other thing that I worry about Dana frankly, And we'll
see what the jury decides. And I'm pulling for an
acquittal or at least a hung jury, because I think
this trial, based on these facts is an absolute joke,
or you had the previous DA in Manhattan look at
this and decide no charges. You have the DOJ look
at these exact same facts, no charges. The FEC, which
governs this realm, didn't even find Donald Trump over this.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
But you have Alvin Bragg.
Speaker 6 (13:52):
Deciding, oh, let's try to put him in prison for
more than one hundred years based on this legal bank
shot that no one has ever even tried before. I
think that is sort of an astonishing thing. And you're
talking about the norms that we have enjoyed for a
long time in this country and this creeping sense of
(14:12):
things coming unglued. There is a very real possibility data
that let's say this New York jury decides to they're confused,
but the procetitution says, look look at this blizzard of
icky stuff. Let's convict him of something, and they go
along with it. Then this moves on to appeal. So
you've got the term convicted felon slapped onto Donald Trump's
(14:33):
forehead for the next several months leading into an election.
Then let's say Trump for that reason narrowly loses the election.
I'm not saying that's what's going to happen. I'm just saying,
in a very plausible hypothetical situation, then that conviction gets overturned.
As many of the legal eagles say that, it would
be as a slam dunk on appeal because of the
buffet of appealable items here after the election.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Think about what that would do to the AMA people.
Tens of millions of people who would look.
Speaker 6 (15:02):
At the fact pattern and say this was completely politicized.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
They got a temporary verdict for.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
The purpose of winning an election, and then it got
wiped out after the election. That would be I think,
another major nail in the coffin of many people's perception
of general fairness and equality under the law in our system.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
This is what you call election interference.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And by the way, the Left knows this, They know
this is insane. They were hedging their bets that this
case was going to be a blowout victory for Trump
twenty four hours ago. They were doing this, and the
reason why is because they couldn't even imagine a judge
that would give these non written instructions to a jury
(15:49):
to just get a conviction no matter what, at all costs.
Listen to a CNN legal analyst describing this case.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
What Michael's getting at is that is the burden proof
is an important want to remind everyone.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
It's on the prosecution right.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
They need to improve the unreasonable doubt that he committed,
that Donald Trump broke the law. And you think, if
you listening to all of this, you think they fell short?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
How they fell way short?
Speaker 7 (16:14):
Because let's start with reasonable doubt. What is reasonable doubt?
And it's not simply a doubt based upon reason. Anytime
a human being needs to make an important decision in life,
if you have enough information, for example, doctor says you
need open heart surgery, Doc go ahead and schedule, I
(16:37):
don't have a reasonable doubt. Conversely, if I say I
appreciate it, but I need a second opinion, I need
more information, that is having a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Now, why did this CNN legal analyst say it that way?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
He said it that way because he.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Was expecting that this was going to be a very
clear victory for Donald Trump. But when the judge gave
you know this this, Hey, here are your parameters. I'm
not going to give you in writing. I don't want
you to overlook it, and you can ask me questions,
but basically I'm going to give you three different options
to get a conviction. Here, you can some of you
(17:14):
can say violated federal election law.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Others can say no.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Some of you can say false location of business documents.
Others can disagree. Some of you can say tax law valuations.
Or if you just sing he broke the law in general, we'll.
Speaker 8 (17:27):
Go with that.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
It doesn't have to be unanimous on those three options.
The jury, I'm going to give you leeway. Like again,
none of this is in writing, just his words.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
So a guilty verdict could could be four members agree
on one thing, four on another, and for in another
and bam, all of a sudden, then you guys can
convict Donald Trump. Now, I also believe this judge hates
Trump so much that he is no longer a.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Judge.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
He is a radical left wing activists who is living
out his dream to be important like a psychopath, to
be the center of the universe at a pivotal moment
in history like a psychopath, and to be an individual
that is able to actually sway a presidential election to
(18:21):
his candidate of choice, which he's given money to, in
Joe Biden. The evidence is overwhelming. Donald Trump didn't do anything.
There are some that said, well, Donald Trump's behavior turned
off the jury, for example, and they don't care that
(18:43):
Cohen lied. They don't care that Cohen stole money and
admitted under oath, yes I stole tens of thousands of
dollars from Donald Trump. Like the guy you're supposed to
trust that this entire case is.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Around that the federal government wouldn't bring.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Is a guy that looked at you in the face
and said, yes, I am a con artist. Yes I
am a convicted con artist, I'm a convicted.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Liar, and yes I stole.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Money from my boss Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Twenty four hours ago.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
That audio I played for your CNN was what the
media was doing to cover their ables because they were
expecting a hung jury or a not guilty decision from
this jury. This is a moment in history where again
I go back to the point I played for you
also a minute ago from guy Benson. If they geta
(19:41):
now because the rules have completely been changed, this is
a kangaroo court.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
This is the USSR back in the day.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
If they can get a conviction of Donald Trump knowing
it's going to be overturned, but it won't be overturneduntil
after election day.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
They just.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Use this lawsuit to influence and change and alter an election.
That is the definition of election interference. And the wheels
have come off, and I'm not sure we're ever going
to get them back on, because what the Democratic Party
has said is that we're willing to lock up our
political opponents, and we're willing to find places in America
(20:21):
to charge our political opponents with crimes they never committed.
And then we have found judges who are willing to
not abide by the law but have kangaroo courts for
political reasons. This is what they did in Russia under
the USSR's rule.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
One of the things I want to go back to
you real quick also is this obsession with what they've
been saying, and they've been saying it over and over
and over again that while the jury may have been
turned off by Trump's bad boy antics, can you imagine
being Donald Trump sitting through this trial and watching this
injustice be done at your expense and keeping you off
the campaign trail the way that they've been keeping you
(21:02):
off the campaign trail with all of this, How angry
would you be?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
How much would you just sit there and not want
to lose your mind?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
If I was being charged with these crimes and watching
what was happening and witnessing it all. Okay, I would
be sitting there and again I would be going absolutely
utterly insane because you know that this is a kangaroo court.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
You know it like you know that this is a
kangaroo court.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
You understand what's going on here, and they're keeping you off, right,
They're like they're keeping you off the campaign trail.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Donald Trump came out today.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
And this is what he had to say to America
about what was happening in the courtroom today.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Take a listen.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
In his own words, I would say, and listening to
the charges from the judges, as you know, very.
Speaker 9 (22:03):
Conflicted and corrupt. Because of the confliction, very very corrupt.
Mother Teresa could not be these charges.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
These charges are rigged. The whole thing is rigged.
Speaker 8 (22:18):
The whole country's have mess between the borders and fake elections,
and you have a trial like this where the judges
so conflicted, he can't breathe he's going to do his job.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
And the stuff for me that I can tell you,
it's a disgrace.
Speaker 8 (22:35):
And I mean that Mother Teresa could not be those charges.
But we'll see, we'll see how we do. It's a
very disgraceful situation. Every single legal scholar and the experts
said this is no case. It shouldn't be brought, and
it certainly could have been brought seven years ago, not
in the middle of.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
The presidential election. It was all done by Joe Biden.
Speaker 8 (22:57):
This judge contributed to Joe Biden and far worse. Said that,
But I'm not allowed to talk about it because I
have a gay quarterer far worse than that, by a
thousand times worse than that.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
The worst I've ever heard. But I can't talk about it.
It'll be talked about it, but I'm not allowed to
talk about it. But It'll be.
Speaker 8 (23:13):
Talked about in the history books. What's happening here is
weaponization at the level that nobody's seen before ever. Then
they shouldn't be allowed to happen. So I'll stay around here.
This is five weeks. Then five weeks are really essentially
not campaigning, although I took a big lead in the
polls over the last few weeks. Something that's going on
(23:34):
because I think the people of this country see that
this is a rig deal. It's a weaponized deal for
the Democrats to hit their political opponents for Joe Biden
the worst president in.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
The history of the United States.
Speaker 8 (23:47):
He's destroying our Country's letting millions of people from jails,
from prisons, from insanus adams, from mental institutions, drug dealers
pour in Venezuela up. If you look at their crime statistics,
they've gone down seventy two percent. In cried because they're
releasing all their criminals into our country because of this
(24:09):
horrible president that we had. And then they have a
protest of Robert de nire Yes, and he's a fool.
He's a broken down fool standing out there. He got
maggot here, he got maggot yestad, he got a big
dose out.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
But I just want to say, it's a very unfair trial.
It should have never happened.
Speaker 8 (24:30):
If it was going to happen, it should have happened
seven years. He goes, you know, Bragg didn't want to
bring it, The Southern District didn't bring it, the FEC
didn't bring it. This jug didn't even let us. Here's
the number one election attorney.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
He's making the rules.
Speaker 8 (24:45):
He doesn't know anything about elections. He doesn't or anything
about voting and vote counts.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
He doesn't know anything about this stuff. That's so there's
a profession.
Speaker 8 (24:55):
We had the leading election expert of the country, Brad Smith,
ready to us if I wouldn't let him know, they
wouldn't let another gentleman who represent it.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
And you know very well you saw it. It was
the worst I think I've ever seen.
Speaker 8 (25:09):
It that were treated on the stand. Buck Castella wouldn't
let him talk about all of the the hundreds of
emails that he was sended by a gentleman, another gentleman
who I can't mention it because I'm gagged every time
I speak to you.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yes, any simple questions, I'm not.
Speaker 8 (25:25):
Allowed to give you the answer because I'm gagged by
this judge. But we have a very very serious problem there.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I mean, our country's going bad. And remember, and let
me just leave you with this.
Speaker 8 (25:35):
This is all because of Joe biden Is and.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I don't even think it's if.
Speaker 8 (25:39):
I don't think he's smart enough to think about it.
But it's the people that's around him in the office.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
They're smart.
Speaker 8 (25:45):
They're fascists, they're communists, but they're smart, and they're ruining
our country. But we're going to win this election November fifth,
going to be the most important day in the history
of our country. We're going to take back our country
from these fascists, and he's thugs that are destroying us
with inflation and with everything they do. How stupid they
(26:06):
are allowing fifteen, sixteen, seventeen million people into our country.
Going to be totally unvented, totally unchecked.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
We're going to bring back our nation.
Speaker 8 (26:15):
November fifth, remember the most important day in the history
of our country. In the meantime, this trial is rigged.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Thank you, This trial is rigged. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Why did he say it's rigged because he just heard
the instructions to the jury. He just heard how they
changed the entire game in two seconds.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
He just heard everything witnessed it.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I mean, if I'm Donald Trump right now, I'm like, yeah, sure,
they're gonna get me right, Like, this isn't a real
court case. He's been saying it's rigged, but no one
could have imagined just how rigged it was actually going
to be until that judge said, I got to get
a conviction, throw out all the rules. You have basically
(27:06):
no real guidance from me. You can come up with,
like whatever you want to come up with. Nothing has
to be unanimous if you think he may have committed
some act of criminal activity, some random crime, Like, we're
going to run with it. We'll go with it, and
you guys can just trust me that we're going to
(27:28):
get this done somehow, some way. So like, get on board.
We hate Trump, We're in New York for a reason.
The charges were brought here for a reason, and let's
make sure that we do this today. Because the one
thing they understand is this Joe Biden can walk around
(27:54):
and during the debate and he can say, you're you're
a count onners, you're a criminal, You're a felon.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
That's going to work on somebody.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I mean, you go back to the MSNBC Andrew Weisman
on the judge. He wants to sleep with this judge
basically as you've noted.
Speaker 5 (28:14):
With despect Judge Marshaan. I mean, I am like, now
you know, I have like a man crush on him.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
He is such a great.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Judge that it's hard to see that the jurors wouldn't
have the same impression.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
And he's just you just keep on thinking.
Speaker 5 (28:28):
If you looked at a dictionary for judicial temperament, that's.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
What you get. Judicial temperament. That's what you get.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah, in Russia, in the USSR, back in the day,
this is what you get. You got to understand, Like
in Russia right now, these judges don't do anything. They
just take orders from the Kremlin, they take orders from Putin.
This is what happened back in the day, right, Hey,
you got a political opponent out there, Yeah, let's bring
(28:57):
charge against them.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Doesn't have to be real, we make it up. Will
throw the book at.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Him, and I'm going to convict him because I am
a judge as being told exactly what to do here.
And that is exactly what happens each and every single time,
and everybody knows it.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
It's very very very clear.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Oh yeah, just just just run with this, okay, Well,
well yeah, we need you to lock this guy up,
got it. In socialist countries, in Marxist countries, this is
how you play the game. And it works because you
don't have to worry about losing an election. You just
rig it to make sure that the people that you
(29:41):
want to run against they don't have a chance. Are
the people that want to run against you, they don't
have a chance. Again, that's election interference, which is exactly
what This entire case is about they know the case
isn't serious and they're not there.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
It's not Let me let me phrase it a different way.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
This is not about actually convicting Donald Trump of a crime.
This is about time Donald Trump in court number one,
being able to use a conviction against him while he's running,
knowing that's going to be overturned on appeal. They know
he's not guilty, and they know they're not going to
even get away with it long term, like Donald Trump
(30:22):
is not actually going to go to jail. The conviction
is not about an actual conviction. It's about politics, and
the politics are in fact very clear. We just want
to run against him through November fifth, saying he is
a liar and a convicted felon. Do you really want
a convicted felon to be the president of the United
(30:43):
States of America. They know it'll be overturned, but not
before election day. The appeal will take longer than that,
and they know it and they love it. Make sure
you share this podcast please wherever you are. We're going
to keep covering this when the verdict comes out. I
am much less optimistic now than I was twenty four
(31:04):
hours ago, because now the rules have changed yet again
to almost guarantee some sort of conviction against Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I'll see you back here tomorrow.
The jury is deliberating in the Donald Trump trial. They've
now asked for the transcripts of several of the witnesses,
which means we will probably have a delay until we
actually get a verdict because they're going back to look
through testimony and transcripts. But what was shocking is how
the judge went completely outside the scope what its job
(00:24):
is when it came to the orders that they were
given on the jury. He went completely outside the scope
of how a traditional jury.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Is supposed to look at a case. So what do
I mean by that?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Well, the judge basically gave the jury one of three
options to convict violation number one of federal election Law,
number two, falsification of business documents number three tax law violations.
He also said it didn't have to be unanimous on
those three options. The jury is basically getting unlimited leeway
(00:59):
to find a way to find Donald Trump guilty of something.
A guilty verdict, by the way, he could actually look
like this. Four members agree on option one, four members
of great option two, or four members agree on option three.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
The judge says he will take.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
That as in essence a unanimous vote, since it's twelve
agreeing to either one of those three options. That is
not how it normally works in a court case. Obviously,
Donald Trump would be able to appeal the conviction immediately,
but the Democrats just need to convict them so they
can run against him being a convicted felon.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Between now and November.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Everyone knows this is going to be overturned on appeal,
There's no.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
But the fact that the New York judge Merchant told
the jurors that they do not have to unanimously agree
on what crime Trump.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Is guilty of. It could be a four to four to.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Four split is something I've never heard of in my
entire life when it comes to a court case, much
less one as important at this one is I want
you to hear from Donald Trump and what he had
to say outside the courthouse. I also want you to
hear what the legal experts have said about this shocking
(02:22):
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Speaker 2 (04:41):
Now, I want you to hear what.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Some of the scholars had to say about the judge's
absolute disregard for the law, for precedents of how a
court case is supposed to happen. Listen to this as
Harris Faulkner talking about the shock of the order given
to the jury.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Something in particular that this judge said that these jurors
could do. He just delivered what is being called really
the pinnacle of all of this. He said that there
is no need to agree on what has occurred. They
can disagree on what the crime was among the three choices.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Thus, this means that they could.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Split four four four and the judge would still treat
them unanimously.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
What does that mean, Well.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
It's really outrageous because in a normal criminal case, every
statutory crime has what we call elements of the offense,
Like in a bad robbery case, it's you know, you
have to rob it's got to be a financial institution,
you have to show intent. Those are the things the
jury has to agree on unanimously that they were proved
(05:51):
beyond a reasonable doubt. Here, what we're doing is taking
the element that actually makes this a felony, because remember,
falsification of records is normally a misdemeanor in New York.
What makes it a felony is that you're concealing or
committing another crime. And here the judges telling them they
don't have to agree about what the other crime is
(06:14):
under circumstances where that not only is what makes this
a felony, which makes it a four year potential prison penalty.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Rather than a year or less.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
But it's also what gets us into the courtroom because
if this had been a misdemeanor, the time to bring
this case would have lapsed in twenty nineteen. So the
only reason they're still able to bring this case is
because it's a felony allegedly. And yet now the judge
is saying, you know, you don't have to agree on
what the felony is.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
You don't have to agree on what the felony is.
In translation, they made it all up. So if you
look at where we are right now, it is number
one shocking that the judge in this case told the
jury they don't have to unanisily agree on which crime
was committed as long as they all at least pick
one crime, and that among the crimes that they can
(07:07):
pick our ones. Trump wasn't even charged with. Now, this
is exactly what kind of a sham trial looks like.
Marco Rubio put it out and said, this is I'm
going to quotehim. He said, this is exactly the kind
of sham trial that trial used against political opponents of
(07:27):
the regime in the old Soviet Union. Is the way
that he described it. He again is absolutely right. So
where are we? The jury deliberations in the Trump trial
ended Wednesday for the day with no verdict.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Reached and a judge who is.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Now running a sham trial in the same way that
Russia the old Soviet Union used to go after their
political opponents. So judge telling you, hey, you guys can
you don't have to be unanimous against any of these crimes.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
You guys pick and choose which ones you like. We
don't really care.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
And among the crimes that you can pick from are
ones that Trump wasn't even charged with, and we're totally
good with it.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
You guys, just give me a guilty verdict.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
By the way, if you want to know how excited
the left was after the judge went rogue in the
same way they went in the USSR Andrew Weissman on
MSNBC put it this way, as you've noted.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
With despection Judge Marshaan, I mean, I am, I'm like, no,
you know, I felt like a man.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Crush on him. He is such a great.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Judge that it's hard to see that the jurors wouldn't
have the same impression. And he's just you just keep
on thinking if you looked in a dictionary for judicial temperament,
that's what you get with.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I mean, this is this is Russia, right like, like
they should be proud, this is this is truly.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
A Russian move.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Let me just give you some other legal experts and
what they've said about what just happened. Jonathan Turley said
he has ruled that the jury will not be giving
copies of the instructions, but.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Can ask for them to be read to them.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Again, like he basically doesn't want this in writing, the
judge is giving this standard instructions that they can reach
inferences based on facts, such as inferring that it rained
from seeing people in raincoats. It is a rather Quinn instruction.
After Merchant allowed the prosecutors to state as a fact
(09:41):
that federal election violations occurred in this case.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
This is again coming from Jonathan Turley.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
There is no such violation in this case, but Merchant
did nothing to correct the erroneous impression to carry Ford
the analogy Senglass was just yelling at the jury that
there was a virtual hurricane on a p sunny day,
but the judge remained entirely silent. He went on to
also say this merchant also instructed that they may consider
(10:11):
the interests of the witness and the outcome of the case.
One of the least convincing parts of closing arguments the
prosecution was a claim that Michael Cohen was attacking Trump
and selling merchandise.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
To feed his family.
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Speaker 2 (12:15):
All right now.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
The sand Glass portrayed Cohen as struggling in his luxury,
multimillion dollar condo while making millions. It was a far
crime from the pushing a food cart down Broadway to
support his family. But when you have a rigged juror
a rig trial, this is what you do at the
very end of it. So if if he hasn't been
(12:38):
charged with the crime, charge him with a crime.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
If you think he's guilty.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Of something, then just figure out a way to find
him guilty for something else. These are the instructions of
the judge. The judges say that he wants to stay
close to standard instructions. The problem is the case anything
but standard. And now you got a real problem, and
that is that you have.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
A judge that's insane. A court case is insane.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
And the fact that you give jurors payper instructions every time,
but this time you don't tells you just how rigged
it actually is. I want you to listen to a
guy Benson, guy's a friend of mine at Fox. He
said this about his worry for the outcome of this case,
and I couldn't agree with him more.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Listen, and the.
Speaker 6 (13:28):
Other thing that I worry about Dana frankly, And we'll
see what the jury decides. And I'm pulling for an
acquittal or at least a hung jury, because I think
this trial, based on these facts is an absolute joke,
or you had the previous DA in Manhattan look at
this and decide no charges. You have the DOJ look
at these exact same facts, no charges. The FEC, which
governs this realm, didn't even find Donald Trump over this.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
But you have Alvin Bragg.
Speaker 6 (13:52):
Deciding, oh, let's try to put him in prison for
more than one hundred years based on this legal bank
shot that no one has ever even tried before. I
think that is sort of an astonishing thing. And you're
talking about the norms that we have enjoyed for a
long time in this country and this creeping sense of
(14:12):
things coming unglued. There is a very real possibility data
that let's say this New York jury decides to they're confused,
but the procetitution says, look look at this blizzard of
icky stuff. Let's convict him of something, and they go
along with it. Then this moves on to appeal. So
you've got the term convicted felon slapped onto Donald Trump's
(14:33):
forehead for the next several months leading into an election.
Then let's say Trump for that reason narrowly loses the election.
I'm not saying that's what's going to happen. I'm just saying,
in a very plausible hypothetical situation, then that conviction gets overturned.
As many of the legal eagles say that, it would
be as a slam dunk on appeal because of the
buffet of appealable items here after the election.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Think about what that would do to the AMA people.
Tens of millions of people who would look.
Speaker 6 (15:02):
At the fact pattern and say this was completely politicized.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
They got a temporary verdict for.
Speaker 6 (15:08):
The purpose of winning an election, and then it got
wiped out after the election. That would be I think,
another major nail in the coffin of many people's perception
of general fairness and equality under the law in our system.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
This is what you call election interference.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And by the way, the Left knows this, They know
this is insane. They were hedging their bets that this
case was going to be a blowout victory for Trump
twenty four hours ago. They were doing this, and the
reason why is because they couldn't even imagine a judge
that would give these non written instructions to a jury
(15:49):
to just get a conviction no matter what, at all costs.
Listen to a CNN legal analyst describing this case.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
What Michael's getting at is that is the burden proof
is an important want to remind everyone.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
It's on the prosecution right.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
They need to improve the unreasonable doubt that he committed,
that Donald Trump broke the law. And you think, if
you listening to all of this, you think they fell short?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
How they fell way short?
Speaker 7 (16:14):
Because let's start with reasonable doubt. What is reasonable doubt?
And it's not simply a doubt based upon reason. Anytime
a human being needs to make an important decision in life,
if you have enough information, for example, doctor says you
need open heart surgery, Doc go ahead and schedule, I
(16:37):
don't have a reasonable doubt. Conversely, if I say I
appreciate it, but I need a second opinion, I need
more information, that is having a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Now, why did this CNN legal analyst say it that way?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
He said it that way because he.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Was expecting that this was going to be a very
clear victory for Donald Trump. But when the judge gave
you know this this, Hey, here are your parameters. I'm
not going to give you in writing. I don't want
you to overlook it, and you can ask me questions,
but basically I'm going to give you three different options
to get a conviction. Here, you can some of you
(17:14):
can say violated federal election law.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Others can say no.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Some of you can say false location of business documents.
Others can disagree. Some of you can say tax law valuations.
Or if you just sing he broke the law in general, we'll.
Speaker 8 (17:27):
Go with that.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
It doesn't have to be unanimous on those three options.
The jury, I'm going to give you leeway. Like again,
none of this is in writing, just his words.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
So a guilty verdict could could be four members agree
on one thing, four on another, and for in another
and bam, all of a sudden, then you guys can
convict Donald Trump. Now, I also believe this judge hates
Trump so much that he is no longer a.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Judge.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
He is a radical left wing activists who is living
out his dream to be important like a psychopath, to
be the center of the universe at a pivotal moment
in history like a psychopath, and to be an individual
that is able to actually sway a presidential election to
(18:21):
his candidate of choice, which he's given money to, in
Joe Biden. The evidence is overwhelming. Donald Trump didn't do anything.
There are some that said, well, Donald Trump's behavior turned
off the jury, for example, and they don't care that
(18:43):
Cohen lied. They don't care that Cohen stole money and
admitted under oath, yes I stole tens of thousands of
dollars from Donald Trump. Like the guy you're supposed to
trust that this entire case is.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Around that the federal government wouldn't bring.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Is a guy that looked at you in the face
and said, yes, I am a con artist. Yes I
am a convicted con artist, I'm a convicted.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Liar, and yes I stole.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Money from my boss Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Twenty four hours ago.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
That audio I played for your CNN was what the
media was doing to cover their ables because they were
expecting a hung jury or a not guilty decision from
this jury. This is a moment in history where again
I go back to the point I played for you
also a minute ago from guy Benson. If they geta
(19:41):
now because the rules have completely been changed, this is
a kangaroo court.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
This is the USSR back in the day.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
If they can get a conviction of Donald Trump knowing
it's going to be overturned, but it won't be overturneduntil
after election day.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
They just.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Use this lawsuit to influence and change and alter an election.
That is the definition of election interference. And the wheels
have come off, and I'm not sure we're ever going
to get them back on, because what the Democratic Party
has said is that we're willing to lock up our
political opponents, and we're willing to find places in America
(20:21):
to charge our political opponents with crimes they never committed.
And then we have found judges who are willing to
not abide by the law but have kangaroo courts for
political reasons. This is what they did in Russia under
the USSR's rule.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
One of the things I want to go back to
you real quick also is this obsession with what they've
been saying, and they've been saying it over and over
and over again that while the jury may have been
turned off by Trump's bad boy antics, can you imagine
being Donald Trump sitting through this trial and watching this
injustice be done at your expense and keeping you off
the campaign trail the way that they've been keeping you
(21:02):
off the campaign trail with all of this, How angry
would you be?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
How much would you just sit there and not want
to lose your mind?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
If I was being charged with these crimes and watching
what was happening and witnessing it all. Okay, I would
be sitting there and again I would be going absolutely
utterly insane because you know that this is a kangaroo court.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
You know it like you know that this is a
kangaroo court.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
You understand what's going on here, and they're keeping you off, right,
They're like they're keeping you off the campaign trail.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Donald Trump came out today.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
And this is what he had to say to America
about what was happening in the courtroom today.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Take a listen.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
In his own words, I would say, and listening to
the charges from the judges, as you know, very.
Speaker 9 (22:03):
Conflicted and corrupt. Because of the confliction, very very corrupt.
Mother Teresa could not be these charges.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
These charges are rigged. The whole thing is rigged.
Speaker 8 (22:18):
The whole country's have mess between the borders and fake elections,
and you have a trial like this where the judges
so conflicted, he can't breathe he's going to do his job.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
And the stuff for me that I can tell you,
it's a disgrace.
Speaker 8 (22:35):
And I mean that Mother Teresa could not be those charges.
But we'll see, we'll see how we do. It's a
very disgraceful situation. Every single legal scholar and the experts
said this is no case. It shouldn't be brought, and
it certainly could have been brought seven years ago, not
in the middle of.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
The presidential election. It was all done by Joe Biden.
Speaker 8 (22:57):
This judge contributed to Joe Biden and far worse. Said that,
But I'm not allowed to talk about it because I
have a gay quarterer far worse than that, by a
thousand times worse than that.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
The worst I've ever heard. But I can't talk about it.
It'll be talked about it, but I'm not allowed to
talk about it. But It'll be.
Speaker 8 (23:13):
Talked about in the history books. What's happening here is
weaponization at the level that nobody's seen before ever. Then
they shouldn't be allowed to happen. So I'll stay around here.
This is five weeks. Then five weeks are really essentially
not campaigning, although I took a big lead in the
polls over the last few weeks. Something that's going on
(23:34):
because I think the people of this country see that
this is a rig deal. It's a weaponized deal for
the Democrats to hit their political opponents for Joe Biden
the worst president in.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
The history of the United States.
Speaker 8 (23:47):
He's destroying our Country's letting millions of people from jails,
from prisons, from insanus adams, from mental institutions, drug dealers
pour in Venezuela up. If you look at their crime statistics,
they've gone down seventy two percent. In cried because they're
releasing all their criminals into our country because of this
(24:09):
horrible president that we had. And then they have a
protest of Robert de nire Yes, and he's a fool.
He's a broken down fool standing out there. He got
maggot here, he got maggot yestad, he got a big
dose out.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
But I just want to say, it's a very unfair trial.
It should have never happened.
Speaker 8 (24:30):
If it was going to happen, it should have happened
seven years. He goes, you know, Bragg didn't want to
bring it, The Southern District didn't bring it, the FEC
didn't bring it. This jug didn't even let us. Here's
the number one election attorney.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
He's making the rules.
Speaker 8 (24:45):
He doesn't know anything about elections. He doesn't or anything
about voting and vote counts.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
He doesn't know anything about this stuff. That's so there's
a profession.
Speaker 8 (24:55):
We had the leading election expert of the country, Brad Smith,
ready to us if I wouldn't let him know, they
wouldn't let another gentleman who represent it.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
And you know very well you saw it. It was
the worst I think I've ever seen.
Speaker 8 (25:09):
It that were treated on the stand. Buck Castella wouldn't
let him talk about all of the the hundreds of
emails that he was sended by a gentleman, another gentleman
who I can't mention it because I'm gagged every time
I speak to you.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yes, any simple questions, I'm not.
Speaker 8 (25:25):
Allowed to give you the answer because I'm gagged by
this judge. But we have a very very serious problem there.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I mean, our country's going bad. And remember, and let
me just leave you with this.
Speaker 8 (25:35):
This is all because of Joe biden Is and.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I don't even think it's if.
Speaker 8 (25:39):
I don't think he's smart enough to think about it.
But it's the people that's around him in the office.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
They're smart.
Speaker 8 (25:45):
They're fascists, they're communists, but they're smart, and they're ruining
our country. But we're going to win this election November fifth,
going to be the most important day in the history
of our country. We're going to take back our country
from these fascists, and he's thugs that are destroying us
with inflation and with everything they do. How stupid they
(26:06):
are allowing fifteen, sixteen, seventeen million people into our country.
Going to be totally unvented, totally unchecked.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
We're going to bring back our nation.
Speaker 8 (26:15):
November fifth, remember the most important day in the history
of our country. In the meantime, this trial is rigged.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Thank you, This trial is rigged. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Why did he say it's rigged because he just heard
the instructions to the jury. He just heard how they
changed the entire game in two seconds.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
He just heard everything witnessed it.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I mean, if I'm Donald Trump right now, I'm like, yeah, sure,
they're gonna get me right, Like, this isn't a real
court case. He's been saying it's rigged, but no one
could have imagined just how rigged it was actually going
to be until that judge said, I got to get
a conviction, throw out all the rules. You have basically
(27:06):
no real guidance from me. You can come up with,
like whatever you want to come up with. Nothing has
to be unanimous if you think he may have committed
some act of criminal activity, some random crime, Like, we're
going to run with it. We'll go with it, and
you guys can just trust me that we're going to
(27:28):
get this done somehow, some way. So like, get on board.
We hate Trump, We're in New York for a reason.
The charges were brought here for a reason, and let's
make sure that we do this today. Because the one
thing they understand is this Joe Biden can walk around
(27:54):
and during the debate and he can say, you're you're
a count onners, you're a criminal, You're a felon.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
That's going to work on somebody.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I mean, you go back to the MSNBC Andrew Weisman
on the judge. He wants to sleep with this judge
basically as you've noted.
Speaker 5 (28:14):
With despect Judge Marshaan. I mean, I am like, now
you know, I have like a man crush on him.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
He is such a great.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Judge that it's hard to see that the jurors wouldn't
have the same impression.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
And he's just you just keep on thinking.
Speaker 5 (28:28):
If you looked at a dictionary for judicial temperament, that's.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
What you get. Judicial temperament. That's what you get.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah, in Russia, in the USSR, back in the day,
this is what you get. You got to understand, Like
in Russia right now, these judges don't do anything. They
just take orders from the Kremlin, they take orders from Putin.
This is what happened back in the day, right, Hey,
you got a political opponent out there, Yeah, let's bring
(28:57):
charge against them.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Doesn't have to be real, we make it up. Will
throw the book at.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Him, and I'm going to convict him because I am
a judge as being told exactly what to do here.
And that is exactly what happens each and every single time,
and everybody knows it.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
It's very very very clear.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Oh yeah, just just just run with this, okay, Well,
well yeah, we need you to lock this guy up,
got it. In socialist countries, in Marxist countries, this is
how you play the game. And it works because you
don't have to worry about losing an election. You just
rig it to make sure that the people that you
(29:41):
want to run against they don't have a chance. Are
the people that want to run against you, they don't
have a chance. Again, that's election interference, which is exactly
what This entire case is about they know the case
isn't serious and they're not there.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
It's not Let me let me phrase it a different way.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
This is not about actually convicting Donald Trump of a crime.
This is about time Donald Trump in court number one,
being able to use a conviction against him while he's running,
knowing that's going to be overturned on appeal. They know
he's not guilty, and they know they're not going to
even get away with it long term, like Donald Trump
(30:22):
is not actually going to go to jail. The conviction
is not about an actual conviction. It's about politics, and
the politics are in fact very clear. We just want
to run against him through November fifth, saying he is
a liar and a convicted felon. Do you really want
a convicted felon to be the president of the United
(30:43):
States of America. They know it'll be overturned, but not
before election day. The appeal will take longer than that,
and they know it and they love it. Make sure
you share this podcast please wherever you are. We're going
to keep covering this when the verdict comes out. I
am much less optimistic now than I was twenty four
(31:04):
hours ago, because now the rules have changed yet again
to almost guarantee some sort of conviction against Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I'll see you back here tomorrow.
Host
Ben Ferguson
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