July 13, 2024 • 40 mins
Today on The Panel Tyler Adams was joined by Paul Spoonley and Brigitte Morton to talk the biggest stories of the past week.
President Joe Biden mistakenly calls the President of Ukraine "President Putin", Prime Minister Christopher Luxon is at the NATO Summit, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith announced a Retail Crime Advisory Group, Air New Zealand rated as the best employee in New Zealand for the second year in a row, and the SailGP is confirmed to be held in Auckland next year.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
at b A very very.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good afternoon to you. Welcome into the Weekend collect If.
My name is Tyler Adams. I'm fillnom for Tim Beveridge.
He's off for the school holidays, and if I know
anything about BEVO, I can almost guarantee he is gracefully
gliding down the slopes of Coronet Peak, the lucky bugger,
probably in skilycra smashing through those moguls. Perhaps not a
great mental picture, but he is enjoying a bit of
(00:32):
time off this weekend. But enough about bevou hope you
are having a great afternoon this Saturday. Great to have
your company. As usual, before I introduce our esteemed panel,
and they are very esteemed. A quick rundown on the
rest of the show. After four o'clock we will be
chatting with Andrew Nickel. He is a managing partner at
Opez Partners. They are property investments experts, and he is
(00:55):
the co host of the wildly popular Property Academy podcast.
A lot to chat about with Andrew. Clearly, the Reserve
Bank continuing to hold the OCR at five point five
percent is a concern for a lot of people. Where
will those interest rates go down? Is the answer I
think we all want, particularly if you've got a mortgage anyway,
and what to do and what is a rather muted
(01:17):
property market right now, that is after four o'clock, and
after five o'clock we'll be talking to Sarah Chatwyn. You
know her well. She's a psychologist and commentator, and we're
going to be discussing all things parenting, including because it's
the school holidays, traveling with kids and we know that
can be a bit of a crapshoot for parents. It
can be as easy as pie or one of the
(01:39):
worst experiences of a parent's life. So what are the
best strategies to keep the kids calm, collected, entertained while
traveling for a holiday. And we may also dig into
the curly topic of AI in schools. It's been utilized
more and more. A lot of us, and I'm speaking
for myself here, are pretty green when it comes to
understanding AI and it's increasing development. So looking forward to
(02:02):
that discussion and your calls and texts of course after
five o'clock in The number, by the way is eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty. But right now let's bring
in our panelist. We've got a new beyond today which
is always exciting, and I suppose I'm a bit of
a newp to this show as well, so he's in
good company. But first, someone who does know their way
around a week in collective panel. You know her well,
(02:24):
Former Ministerial Advisor to the Minister of Education turned lawyer
Bridget Morton. She certainly knows her stuff when it comes
to politics. Bridget. Good afternoon, How are.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
You good, afternoon?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I'm pretty good, pretty good. Beautiful day in Wellington this afternoon.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
It's always a beautiful day in Wellington. I don't know
why you would question that.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
That's the spread. Are you fizzing for the all blacks tonight, Bridget?
Or you're a rugby fan?
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Ah? The only sport that I really follow is the
sport of politics, so I have to say no, not particularly.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
And it's quite a bloody sport at that, isn't it?
But entertaining nonetheless, And introducing our next panelist. Socialist and
emeritus professor at Massi University, Paul Spoonley is a wealth
of knowledge. He specializes in social change and demography and
it's impact on policy decisions. It's the first time for
Paul on the panel. Get a Paul, nice to see it.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Day Tail And Hi bridget it's sociologist.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Taylor, sociologist of course, yes, forgive them. Yeah, that's right,
that's right. And Paul, how are you? Are you fizzing
for the all Blacks? You're up in Auckland. It's at
Eden Park. You must be yes.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
And what a fantastic day. However good it is in Wellington.
This is better in Auckland.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Oh, here we go. The rivalry started already. Now, guys,
let's kick into It's a big international politics story this week.
Of course, Joe Biden, the US President, has rallied for
voters in Michigan today as he vows to stay in
the presidential race. He has told those voters he isn't
going anywhere. Biden's capability to beat Donald Trump for the
(03:53):
role was in the spotlight, of course, yesterday, when he
mistakenly introduced Lensky as Putin at a post NATO press conference.
This mishap has pushed another wave of Democrats to request
Biden step side. Bridget Off, start with you. I take
it you watched some of that press conference at the
NATO summit, and depending on what side of politics you're on,
(04:14):
either he smashed it out of the park and quelled
concerns or reinforced his mental acuity as rapidly declining.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
What was your take, I'm not sure I can say,
you know, depending on what side of politics you're on,
because I think even those people who you know want
sort of Biden to continue would not have felt like
that was a success. You know, for a success, it
would have had to him to have perfect you know,
answers to everything, you know, not make mistakes like he did.
And I think for most people, the ones that are
(04:42):
being polite, dlet's take our own Prime minister about Joe
Biden's condition, they're doing it because they're being diplomatic and
they need to not because they actually believe that he
has got, you know, the chops to continue on as president.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Paul. I mean, the bar was set pretty low after
that debate, and it was disastrous, so the bar was
already low. And the fact that he had a mishap
in the first cup minutes of that press conference when
he mistake his own vice president with Donald Trump, and
then he seemed to have a fairly concise run after
that but because the bar was set so low, as
(05:16):
he getting more credit than he deserves for that press conference.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
No, No, I think it's a train wreck. And I
just can't see them continuing with Biden because every time
you look at him, there are those pauses, there's that middle,
distant stare, there's the incomplete sentences. Everything about him says
that he's just not going to be up for the job.
Although I would say Tyler, repeating what everybody else has said,
(05:41):
are these the two best candidates that America can offer? Really?
I mean, you know, I've got a sense. I was
chairing a meeting up at up in Washington at the
World Banker a few months ago, and I did make
a comment, just off the cuff comment about Biden, and
boy did I get jumped on. So there's still a
(06:01):
huge commitment amongst some Democrats. But with George Lee coming
out in the way he did this week, I think,
you know, the end must be nigh.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
It's a big knock. But as you say, I mean,
it's almost satire, isn't it, Bridgid. It's like an episode
of Black Mirror that those two, those two are the
best that America, the Land of the Free, can offer
for a presidential race.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Absolutely, and I think it definitely shows that something is
very broken in the American landscape. It always just makes
it makes me so much more appreciative for the New
Zealand uplittle landscape. I think we've got many people who
could be prime minister, and we had, you know, quite
a lot of contest. I think also for people to
be prime minister. It does kind of shock me in
some ways that there wasn't more of a contest, particularly
(06:43):
on the Republican side in the US. That how Trump
was able to sort of rise up again. I would
have thought after his last presidency that the movement for
change away from him should have been so great that
they should have be able to rally behind another candidate.
But I mean, they just have not been able to.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Does it come back to money here, Paul, When you
mentioned there, George Clooney wrote the op ed in The
New York Times saying that he needs to step down.
Rob Ryiner and other Hollywood heavyweiters come out saying needs
to go. Michael Douglas. When you lose the backing of Hollywood,
and they are a formidable fundraising arm for the Democrats,
surely that's the nail in the coffin for Biden. If
he cannot have Hollywood beside him raising the cash, then
(07:21):
he cannot stand. He's got to step down.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Yeah, And I understand that at the moment Biden has
four times more cash in the bank than Trump. That
might change, of course. So and I just Cloney raised
twenty eight million at a fundraising event just a week
or two ago for Barden. It's just extraordinary money. So
I think when you lose your backers, and you begin
to lose Congress and senators, then you're losing your political base.
(07:48):
And I just I mean, they're gonna have to do something,
and I'm just not sure what that looks like and
whether Biden's going to keep saying I'm up for it.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Bridgette, you have advised a lot of politicians and ministers
in your career, and I know American politics is a
crazy beast, But how in the heck would his advisers,
those close around them, how would they advise some best
that Joe, it is time for you to stand down.
We know what you want to do here, but you
can no longer carry on, and you've got to put
your back into someone else.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Yeah, Ultimately, as an advisor, is your job to advise,
and you can provide all of the facts, and you
can provide the persuasion. End of the day, though you're
not the elected official, you're not the person that has
been put there by the people, and ultimately they are
the decision makers. So I see a lot of reader
wic around. You know, Jill Biden needs to say this,
or as advisors need to do this. Ultimately, if he's
been really stubborn and sticking his heels in, he has
(08:41):
got all rights currently to be there. He's been elected
to president. Currently, he's got the nomination for the next election,
so therefore he has to make that decision. I think
it's a very very difficult position for many of those
advisors who clearly are dealing with their train wreck every day.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
I just wonder whether or not they are being honest
with him and saying, look, you're just not up to this.
I wonder whether those that in a core of advisors
are really being honest with Biden about his ability and
his possibility winning.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
He's very little incentive for them not to be honest,
because ultimately, if that becomes a sinking ship, it tarnishes
their reputation as well, and it also makes it really
difficult for them to do your jobs. I don't know
any advisor who goes into the office, you know, into
their polugocy day and was, oh, well, whatever happens happens.
You always have something invested in and getting that job
(09:39):
done right. Therefore, they would absolutely incentivize to make sure
that he is making the right decisions.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
There must be that Well, the numbers must be still
in Biden's favor, Bridget, because we know the political machine
in America and we know that these are some of
the smartest political strategists in the world. So clearly they
are doing the research. They are looking at the numbers
around popularity. They are looking at at how popular Kamala
Harris is and some of those other potential tenders, and
(10:06):
they still obviously must be coming to the conclusion that
Biden's at the best shot we've got.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Well, I think there's lots of different polling out there.
Lots of the polling is showing that Trump will win currently.
But the problem that they have, I think is they
haven't identified who that replacement candidate would be. You do
need someone that's got a significant amount of name recognition,
which is why I think, you know, you get Michelle Obama,
that name thrown around quite a lot, and you need
someone that's actually going to motivate people to come out
(10:32):
and vote because they have extremely low turnout in the US.
It's really hard for a lot of people to actually vote,
so you need to motivate that. And that's the biggest
risk that Biden demonstrates is that he is unlikely to
actually get a lot of sort of moderate Democrats be
willing to actually take the time to vote. So I
don't think the polling does show that he is safe.
(10:52):
I think far from that. But the problem they've got
is that they haven't got something to demonstrate that they've
got a natural successor to him.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, I think at this stage, Paul, it would be
nice to see Dwayne the Rock Johnson put his name
back in the head for president. Can't do any worse, No.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
No, no, anybody would be better. And to add to
what Bridget said, there is a political process that they've
got to go through. So Biden is a confirmed candidate
for the Democrats, so they're going to have to have
a very different process to replace him. And I'm you
know that that is actually going to be quite challenging.
So rock the Johnson go.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah, yeah, just for for both of you. Before we
move on to the NATO summit, odds that Joe Biden
will step down before November. Paul 'll start with you.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Oh, I think it's got to be pretty much one
hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Yeah, bridget I just give it ninety nine because at
leave one per leave one percent on the table for
stubborn old men.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
And follow follow up question, who's going to take his place?
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Yeah, as I say this, no natural successor, and I
think that is their biggest problem. And yeah, I think
I can't tell you who that possibly could be.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
No, I mean, Harris not polling particularly well. Newsome, you know,
there are one or two candidates in the wings who
who would step in, but they're an unknown quantity. So Newsom,
Gaven Newsen, the Californian governor, might be a possibility.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Very good, Right, Let's move on to the NATO summit
at South Christopher Luxen's visit to the smone in Washington,
d C. Was a chance for him to rub shoulders
with other world leaders, and from the war in the Ukraine,
the concerns about China, there was plenty of meaty issues
to be discussed, and it seemed overall a fairly successful
trip for Luxon. Bridget start with you, how important was
it for Luxen to be there on the ground at NATA.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
I think domestically, it's always important to be seen, you know,
there's a bit of validation about being seen to perform
well on the world stage and be rubbing those shoulders.
We know, just Sindra a Durn for instance, he was
you know, well known for doing that job particularly well.
And I think Luxon has really proved himself this week
that he has got the absolute chops to do that.
I think, you know, sittings alongside Vilinski. The fact that
(13:04):
we had in announcement in which we're giving further aid
there and military support as well, I think that was
absolutely sort of perfectly timed. Also just really important for
us to be there because of the defense position. We
don't have a particularly strong defense force down here. We
know that we do need the support of allies, so
continuing to build those relationships and build those alliances is
(13:27):
really really important for us.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, Paul, for you, I mean, there was a lot
of talk in the last eighteen months about this idea,
idea of Orcus phase two that we could look to
come on board with, And in Joe Biden's press conference
he mentioned in New Zealand alongside Australia, in Japan and
South Korea several times. So do you think we are
getting closer to reforming those military ties with the likes
(13:52):
of the US.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yes, I do, But there is an issue here, and
that is since the nineteen eighties we've tended to New
Zealand has tended to adopt a multilateral, independent stance. So
if we're going to tie our ship to the American bandwagon,
then that will be quite a significant shift for US.
And I think at the moment, given the global situation
(14:14):
around the world that we're seeing these significant conflicts beginning
to emerge, we do have to step up and we
do have to be there, as Bridget said, in places
like Washington, being at NATO, being heard and being represented
there is absolutely essential. We are a very small country
with a very limited defense capability on the edge of
(14:37):
the world, and we need those connections because we don't
know what's going to eventuate.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Did we fracture that relationship? Bridget with the US When
it comes to strategic partnerships, Judith Collins has made mention
of that. Winston Peters has said we need to rebuild
that relationship. Was it ever broken?
Speaker 4 (14:55):
I think we did struggle definitely with foreign a fairs,
particularly during COVID. I think a lot of our foreign
afer focus is in the Pacific, and it's perhaps we
didn't do enough, I think during that time, particularly to
make sure that we you know, the clear thing with
the Pacific is obviously I personally think that we've got
a duty to make sure that we look after our
Pacific neighbors, but they are strategically important as well because
(15:17):
that Chinese US influence is really powerful, and that's where
we also have a role. So I think we do
need to do more. I would say Sintram was a
great ambassador for New Zealand, but I don't think we
had a particularly strong foreign minister during a quite a
lot of that COVID time.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
It is a bit of a typewrote for New Zealand,
isn't it, Paul? That we have an incredibly strong trading
relationship with China. China has made no bones about being
nervous of NATO allies pushing into the Pacific, which it
considers its region. We have to be very careful about
how we go about rebuilding some of these alliances.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Right, oh, we do, and we don't want to put
in jeopardy those trade arrangements that currently exist, because when
you look at China in terms of trading partners, China
is huge. But what Yen Stolton Camp talked about, he's
the NATO Secretary General. It was quite an interesting contradiction.
So he said, no, no, NATO's still Northern Hemisphere Defense Alliance.
(16:16):
We're not seeking to Expand however, he made a great
point of stressing that in the Indo Pacific there are
new tensions and so that's why Australia, New Zealand, Korea,
Japan were invited to NATO, and that's why we chaired
that meeting because NATO is trying to then link up
(16:38):
with some of these new dynamics that are beginning to occur.
And Bridges raised an important point. China has been moving
into the Pacific in a significant way. Earlier this year,
it signed a new compact with Fiji about training police
officers being involved with defense and security in Fiji. And
so you begin to get a sense that China is
(17:00):
edging out some of us, including Australia and New Zealand
out of some of those traditional alliances in the.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, I've got to say how nice it is that
we're talking about the NATO summit instead of a plane
breaking down some I'm so clad that lux and went
commercial this time, so we can actually talk about the
event rather than a plane that doesn't work. Guys, we're
gonna have to take a break. But after the break,
let's have a chat about retail crime. You were listening
to the Weekend Collective with Paul Spoonley and Bridget Morton.
(17:27):
It is twenty three past three, bagfree shortly here on
Newstalks hed b Cheez, I'm eager Anti. It is the
week In Collective of course, and you're listening to the
panel with our esteem panelist Paul Spoonley and Bridget Morton.
Thanks again for your time, guys, Thank you. Let's have
a chat about retail crime. This has been another big
story over the past eighteen months to two years, and
(17:48):
the government on Thursday announced a new advisory rather group,
headed by the chair of the Dairy and Business Owners Group,
to help ensure fewer victims of crime. Justice Minister Paul
Goldsmith says it was budgeted to cost about one point
eight million dollars a year for at least two years,
largely pay through the proceeds of Crime Fund, and as
I mentioned before, it will be headed up by Sonny Koushell,
(18:10):
the head of the Dairy and Business Owners Group, has
been very vocal on the topic of retail crime. Bridget,
do you have any faith that this advisory group will
be able to turn things around when it comes to
not just retail crime and the stats that we see,
but the general confidence of dairy owners, of liquor store owners,
of supermarket owners that things can change share and they're
(18:32):
going to get support.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
I think the first thing is course being felt like
you listened to. That's really empowering when you're a victim
of crime and to actually feel like you've actually got
a voice in changing things. I think also a big
thing for retail is the vast majority of our retail
businesses are small or medium businesses, so they don't have
the resources or the ability to do sort of big,
highly technical rollout and we saw originally, say with the
(18:55):
fog cannons, they took a long time to roll out
initially because it was really hard for actually have many
small businesses to engage with that process and get them
actually on board. And so I think this is where
this kind of group has value is because they can
actually look at a measure and go, well, that's practical
to actually have, or it's not practical, how will you
actually implement it? And I think that's the real.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Power it is. I mean, I'm speaking for myself, Pharrer.
It is heartbreaking to see these stories pop up again
and again on the news about a business that's been
broken into, and goodness, the last major one of the
breaking into the liquor store, I believe in the owners
tried to defend themselves and one of the owners was
very badly injured. It is heartbreaking and it's devastating to see.
(19:36):
But the talk here of this advisory group, and this
is from Goldsmith, that he says they're going to be
looking into the likes of security cards enabling business owners
to defend their property legitimately defend their property, and the
potential for using facial recognition. When it comes to facial recognition,
that's already been used in places like supermarkets, right, and
(19:57):
that doesn't seem to make much of a difference when
it comes to people trying to rip off those supermarkets.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
It's part of the armory that they it is available
to them. So I'm not sure how successful the supermarkets
have been in terms of identifying people who are repeat
offenders and identifying them at the point of entry. So Tyler,
I'm not I'm entirely sure that, but I agree with
I agree with Bridget because the Dairy and Business Owners
(20:24):
Group said earlier in the year, look, you're you're not
listening to us. So they expressed their disappointment that the government,
in terms of its quarterly targets, was not doing more.
So the government has moved to say yet, we are
gonna listen to you. And I heard Minister Goldsmith the
other day say what he wants to see from this
(20:44):
group is policy. So it's going to be very interesting
to see what those policies look like. And Tyler, you've
mentioned security cards, you know what you can legitimately do
by way of defending your property, and then facial recognition,
so let's see where that falls. But I have absolute
sympathy with these guys this and by the way, we
do you notice that we've moved from ram raids to
(21:05):
aggravated robbery. We're not hearing about ram raids, but aggravated
robbery is just an appalling situation to phase.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I saw a post on social media yesterday, Bridget and
again it does absolutely break my heart. And it was
clearly of a cafe up in Auckland, and it was
a note on the door that said, please don't break
our windows. We've got nothing of value in the property.
There is nothing here and we are dealing with inflation.
Our business may close and breaking the windows is just
going to be another cost that we cannot wear. I mean,
that's that's the bones of it for a lot of
(21:33):
those small businesses right now, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think that's why you go back
to the issue of whatever messus you bring in, you've
got to make sure that they actually can be something
that small businesses in particular can actually take up. Can
they you know, have they got the resources to actually
implement them or what kind of support that do they need?
Because that is absolutely heartbreaking because you know, there's a
direct line between that window getting broken and how much
(21:56):
money gets taken home by the owners to pay their power.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Bill that week.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
You know, it's a direct correlation. These are not big
companies that have bigger Christians to absorb some of these costs.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, I do worry about the looking into defending their
own property. And I say that as we've seen various
stories come to light where they've tried to do exactly
that and ended up very injured themselves and sadly, on
what one occasion two years ago, they ended up killed.
I do worry about that aspect that. And I know
(22:29):
this is an advisory board and they're just looking into
how owners can legitimately defend their own property. But Paul,
does that give you pause for concern when it comes
to taking it on yourself to try and defend your property.
That's not the role for a business owner. That's the
role for the police.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
It is, And I am concerned this is sort of
the American response that you can use lethal force to
defend your self and your property. And what I worry
about is the escalation of that aggravated aspect of the robbery,
that people are going to be armed because they know
the dairy owners are going to be on That's why
(23:06):
I rather like things like fog cannons and as a
way of preventing violence. And I do some work for
the police and what we're interested in is how you
de escalate a situation. So what are the tools that
are available to dairy owners to de escalate a situation,
bearing in mind that a lot of times, of course,
(23:26):
this escalates really rapidly. But what's available and what is
going to prevent injury to anybody in this situation? That's
the question. I don't know what the answer is, Taylor,
but I think that's the question we need to ask.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
It's a good question, and I think we can all
agree Bridget that the last thing we want in this
country is anybody going to their place of work or
their business fearing for their safety or lives.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Right, Yeah, absolutely, And I did have the same sort
of concerns over that particular sentence and the minister's press release.
So I do think there's some legitimate concerns about how
far we go. But you know, that could mean things
like folk can in type tools where they're able to
use something that maybe is a little bit more toxic,
(24:11):
but they're allowed it's really clear that it's legitimate to
do so, and then the circumstances and what it's legitimate
to do so. And I actually don't have a problem
with that type of activity.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Yeah, Paul Tyler, can I add something here because this
is a post COVID phenomena to a large extent, and
I have taken an interest in this and internationally, what
we're seeing is a very significant spike in retail crime.
So when we look at twenty twenty two in the UK,
there were six million, eight million a big parton incidents
of retail crime, and it had jumped to seventeen million
(24:43):
by twenty twenty three, and in Australia saying a thirty
percent increase. So there is something in all of our
countries which is driving this, and I suspect it's to
do with the cost of living plus some other aspects
of a post COVID situation. So we're dealing with the
safety of dairy owners here, but we're also there's a
(25:06):
broader issue in terms of what is actually driving this increase.
I mean, we're really talking about a very significant increase
in this country in the last year or so, twenty
percent increase. I think we probably need to talk about
some of those broader driving dimensions as well.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
So for your point, isn't it bridget that when a
society is overall doing pretty well economically then there is
a correlation with a decrease in these sorts of crimes
and the fact that we're in a cost of learning crisis.
Many people are out there, are doing it tough, and
I'm not for one minute sympathizing with somebody who breaks
into someone shot and whacks them over their head with
a hammer, But clearly it is causative with where we're
(25:45):
at as a society right now.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think yeah, we can all has
I think sympathy for somebody who's shoplifting, you know, nap
ease or bread or milk or that kind of stuff,
but there's no reason in which the aggravation should happen.
And I do think there's a little bit that we
lost during COVID, and I think probably Paul can speak
to it deeply, you know, with a sociologists not socialist
hat on to say that to really talk about, you
(26:11):
know what that sort of decrease in community or the
decrease in sort of connection to each other that we
lost during that sort of lockdown time. And that's you
know across the world where lockdown has happened as well.
And so you're seeing that, you know, equipment to a
lot of spaces, but I can see how that could
lead to people being more and more disconnected from the
people that they're actually you know, committing these crimes against
(26:33):
that they're not seeing them as people that are just
seeing it as something that has to be done.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
And much of this crime is done by locals to
the local community and to their local dairy. So there's
something that's going on there. In the UK, they tend
to highlight the cost of living combined with drugs and
mental illness to put the package together and organized crime.
I should have added that there's reasons to explain the
(26:58):
big spike in the UK. It'd be interesting to know
what is spiking it here as well.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah. Absolutely. I just want to have a check quickly
about the idea of inheritance tax. And this is speculation
at this stage, but Labor has hinted at the idea
of maybe having an inheritance tax policy ahead of the
next election. Bridge it. I'll start with you in politics aside,
and I know that's your bread and butter, but politics aside,
(27:25):
is there any value in your eyes and to looking
at an inheritance tax?
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Yeah, I think we absolutely should be looking at what
our taxes are and how they fall. My worry is
always when you're doing it from a reason of just
add and add and add, and you know so, rather
than saying, well, actually, because this is where value being created, therefore,
this is where we should be taking the tax. It's
just another way to raise revenue. And that always, aspect,
always worries me. There's also an element I find with
(27:52):
an inheritance tax which I don't like in terms of
our culture, which is inherently a sort of jealousy tax,
which is that these people have done well, therefore we
should tax that. And it is absolutely true, particularly in
our driven economy. But a lot of the money that
people have, they've already been taxed on income tax, in
(28:12):
company taxes, already happened on that money. Therefore, is that
the appropriate place to tax it? Or are you doing
it just because you can?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Paul, I mean the way that I see it, And
I think there's more value in having that discussion again
about capital gains tax, and I think the dial is
shifted in the public perception about whether there is value
in a capital gain stax. But inheritance tax, a lot
of Generation Z and indeed millennials have been told right
now no, you can't get into a house right now,
But just wait until mom and dad car get and
(28:43):
then you have all the money you need to get
into a house. Then they hear this sort of tax
and they think, well, there's no getting a head here.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
You know, it's it's a capital gains tax by another name, really,
isn't it, because you're you're you're taxing the capital that
you've accumulated over life. And then, as you say, Tyler,
you're preventing your children and grandchildren from inheriting that. Can
I go to something else?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Though?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
We're going to have to think about our tax system
because if I can put on my demography hat here,
what's interesting for most of my life, for every person
who's on superannuation, there are four people paying income tax.
Because of the changing demography of this country, we're actually
going to hit a two to one ratio quite soon.
So when you think about the costs of, for example,
(29:30):
a health system or a superannuation system for a very
large group of people who are going to be eligible
for it, and you think about how you raise tax,
we are going to have to have a discussion in
this country about how we generate tax. So inheritance tax
i suspect is part of the spectrum, but the current
system is not going to work for a lot longer.
(29:52):
It's not going to generate the tax revenue that we
need to provide for an aging population.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Bridget would you agree with that? I mean, it's been
talked about for the last out of forty years, and
it's always each government kicks that can down the road
because it's not palatable to the vast amount of voters.
But it seems to be there is tearing at the
seams of the fabric of society when it comes to
who's got the wealth and who doesn't have the wealth.
Do you think now is the time to start having
(30:20):
those serious chats about how we get taxed in New Zealand. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
The problem is that we sort of tried to have
that serious chat. You know, the Aduan government tried to
do the capital so it did a tax working group
and it became a sort of fight just about capital gains,
and we actually lost a lot of the interesting things
that were said in that report about how we looked
at tax And it's interesting because I think inher it
is taxes back on the table because a member of
(30:44):
that group has actually sort of raised it as a
kind of or put it up, put some arguments up
about four or against it. So I think we absolutely
should always be talking about The problem always is is
that we end up in the weeds. Last year's example
of gst Off fruit and vegetables, that was a ridiculous
discussion about tax because that was a clear example where
(31:06):
it was a political maneuver, only it did nothing at
all to actually help people. It actually was going to
be so complex to administer. And I just it is
so difficult to have a non politicized chat about tax.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
And I agree entirely with you bridget on that we
very quickly moved to polarized positions around this and we
can't really have an informed, evidence based discussion around what
The Tax Working Group I think produced some really interesting material,
and I listened to Jeff Nightingale talk to Heather plic Allen,
(31:42):
and I thought he made some really good points, But
one of his fundamental points was that he was in
this case he was talking about inheritance tax, is that
it's politically unattractive and that's the problem.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yep, that's the bottom line, Thank you very much. Right
after the break, we're gonna have a chat about what
makes a workplace attractive to work at. It is nineteen
minutes to for your into the Weekend Collective and the
panel with Paul Spoonley and Bridget Morton back very shortly
right here on news Talk set B. A very very
good afternoon to you when you are listening to the
(32:15):
panel on the Weekend Collective with our panelist Paul Spoonley
and Bridget Morton. Guys, let's have a chat about what
makes a good workplace. Air New Zealand has been crowned
the most Attractive Employer again for the second time running.
This is on the back of the Randstand survey. Paul,
I'll start with you, what does make an attractive workplace
(32:35):
or what is the most attractive workplace you have worked at?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
I worked for Massi University for all of my life, Tyler's,
so I must be pretty attractive.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Thing.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Well it is.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
But can I just declear something here because I'm a
judge for the Diversity Awards News Air New Zealand are
an applicant for those awards, so I just need to
be careful that I don't step over alone here. But
do people want to come to work and what's what
interests me at the moment. It's about but it's about
all the other benefits and the work environment, which is
(33:10):
super important in terms of do I want to work
for that particular employer. Putting on my hat as a
diversity judge would judge, what I look for is the
things that people want from a workplace. Very often these days,
it's flexibility. So there's an employer here in town where
(33:32):
all of the car spaces are open and you can
book them online. There are no offices, all desks a
hot desk, but you get flexibility. So it's a hybrid
working situation. You work from home, you work from work.
There are things that go on and actually those other
elements are often seen as important as salary. So it's
(33:55):
that total package. And I think employers have rarely got
to change in this contemporary environment, particularly this post COVID environment,
and begin to offer that flexibility and that you know,
do I want to work for this employer?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Vibe Bridget, is that what you've seen, you have employees,
you've been involved in business for a long time. Is
that what you're hearing is that, yes, a salary is
a good thing, but what I want most in my
work life is to have that good balance. If I
want to work four days a week, then I want
that option on the table.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Absolutely, And I actually haven't been in business that long.
You know, I spent most of my career actually in politics,
so you know, collecting a salary, and you know, that
salary had very little actually, you know, correlation between the
sort of value or even you know what businesses that
have happening, because it is such a sort of a
(34:49):
different kind of industries. Actually moving into business and becoming
an employer has actually made me think about this quite
a lot, and it is something that I should say
I do think about a lot, because particularly in the
last couple of years in Wellington, it's been really really
hard to recruit because we're competing against increasing public service salaries.
And I think for me there's two things. One, flexibility
(35:09):
is absolutely a massive one for our younger lawyers that
they do want that flexibility to be able to work
from home when they need to, but also, you know,
can they go to something during the middle of the
day and work at night. All of that kind of
stuff is really big for them, but also really interesting work.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Like actually being engaged.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
And for us, this is one of the ways that
we try to attract lawyers is that we do quite
different work to many other law firms, and that you've
got to be involved in something. You get to be
involved in something much more different than you would say,
a big firm. And so I spent a lot of
time thinking about this, and it was really interesting to
look at the factors that they, you know, they sort
(35:48):
of looked at in these awards, and one of them
being the sort of giving back to society. And to
be honest, I don't have any ever had one of
an employee or a possible employee ask anything about that,
So that was kind of interesting.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
It is a change for the generations, isn't it, Paul,
that it is a big thing for young workers now.
They want to make a difference. They want to sometimes
give back to the community. They want to do work
that is meaningful to them and not saying previous generations
didn't have that, but you could make the argument that
making sure that you put food on the table and
provided for your family was more important than the meaning
(36:24):
that that work brought you.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yes, absolutely, And so some of the things that I've seen,
notably in Auckland and particularly amongst corporates, is the you know,
a day a month planting native trees or putting together
a package that provides clothing or food for communities and
families that need it, and that is part of the
work environment. So it's a combination of working with your community,
(36:48):
working with members of your particular family, as well as
the employer. And I think it's that it's that total
package which people are looking for. A couple of weeks ago,
The Economist had a very interesting article about Generation Z
and pointed out that their expectations work were very different
from previous generations and that employers were struggling with that.
(37:10):
By the way, the subtitle they'd picked up on Chloe's
Wilbricks Okay Boomer and they titled it okay Zoomer. I'm
very good, Yeah, very good, And it's a really interesting
exploration about how different Generations Z are in terms of
what they expect from an employer and from their work.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Well worth a read. That's in The Economist. Yes, yeah,
Santas So I've got to take a break. After the break,
we'll have a chat about sol GP and of course
the All Blacks Tonight it is News Talk set B
ten to four final moments of the panel with Paul
Spoonley and Bridget Morton. Guys, we've got to have a
chat about the All Blacks and Bridget, I know politics
is your sport, but how refreshing is it having Scott
(37:49):
Robinson as coach? And that's not a knock on him, Foster.
He's just a colorful guy, isn't he.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (37:54):
Absolutely, they do like a bit of personality because it's
someone who's not a massive game watcher. Let's say, it's
always great to have that sort of color and that
sort of interest outside of the actual game.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, Paul, for you, will you be watching tonight?
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Oh absolutely, I'm I'm looking after the grand kids. Son
and his wife can go and what they'll be a
leading park, but I think it'll I think it'll be
great and Eden Park's a bit of a fortress. I'm
anticipating an All Black win. I'm interested to see who
will lead the hacker with. I don't know whether TJ.
Perrinada will be able to do that, but we'll see.
But they're yeah, no, it's great.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
It is exciting times. He watched your pick for the
score pool.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Yeah, well, I was listening to Pioney before I'm not
going with a fifty point a fifty point win to
the All Blacks, probably ten, ten, twelve points to the
to the All Blacks. The the Lions look pretty good.
They have. They shut down the All Blacks quite a
lot last week, so yeah, I think it'll be relatively tight.
But all Blacks on top.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, very good. They are a better team than a
lot of people gave them credit credit for. Yeah. And
and Bridget do you want to see Scott Robinson do
some break dancing at the end of the match if
they win? Always very very good. Paul Spoonlee sociologist, got
it right that time. Have my own Joe Biden moments
and Fridge at Morton, Thank you very much to you both.
(39:17):
Have a lovely rest of your weekend of willchet again
soon you two, Taylor all the best. Thank you. That
is the panel on the Weekend Collective right after four o'clock.
It is the one roof Property Hour. We're going to
be joined by Andrew Nickel, managing partner at Ope's Partners.
They are property investment experts. Get in early with any
questions that You've got a lot to talk about interest
(39:37):
rates being held by the reserve banks, I'm concerned there
that they still haven't cut those interest rates, and of
course it is a bit of a mutant property market
at the moment. So get in early with your thoughts,
your questions, your concerns. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty is the number to call and nine two ninety
two is the text number. Right new sport and weather
coming up. We'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talks it'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
at b A very very.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good afternoon to you. Welcome into the Weekend collect If.
My name is Tyler Adams. I'm fillnom for Tim Beveridge.
He's off for the school holidays, and if I know
anything about BEVO, I can almost guarantee he is gracefully
gliding down the slopes of Coronet Peak, the lucky bugger,
probably in skilycra smashing through those moguls. Perhaps not a
great mental picture, but he is enjoying a bit of
(00:32):
time off this weekend. But enough about bevou hope you
are having a great afternoon this Saturday. Great to have
your company. As usual, before I introduce our esteemed panel,
and they are very esteemed. A quick rundown on the
rest of the show. After four o'clock we will be
chatting with Andrew Nickel. He is a managing partner at
Opez Partners. They are property investments experts, and he is
(00:55):
the co host of the wildly popular Property Academy podcast.
A lot to chat about with Andrew. Clearly, the Reserve
Bank continuing to hold the OCR at five point five
percent is a concern for a lot of people. Where
will those interest rates go down? Is the answer I
think we all want, particularly if you've got a mortgage anyway,
and what to do and what is a rather muted
(01:17):
property market right now, that is after four o'clock, and
after five o'clock we'll be talking to Sarah Chatwyn. You
know her well. She's a psychologist and commentator, and we're
going to be discussing all things parenting, including because it's
the school holidays, traveling with kids and we know that
can be a bit of a crapshoot for parents. It
can be as easy as pie or one of the
(01:39):
worst experiences of a parent's life. So what are the
best strategies to keep the kids calm, collected, entertained while
traveling for a holiday. And we may also dig into
the curly topic of AI in schools. It's been utilized
more and more. A lot of us, and I'm speaking
for myself here, are pretty green when it comes to
understanding AI and it's increasing development. So looking forward to
(02:02):
that discussion and your calls and texts of course after
five o'clock in The number, by the way is eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty. But right now let's bring
in our panelist. We've got a new beyond today which
is always exciting, and I suppose I'm a bit of
a newp to this show as well, so he's in
good company. But first, someone who does know their way
around a week in collective panel. You know her well,
(02:24):
Former Ministerial Advisor to the Minister of Education turned lawyer
Bridget Morton. She certainly knows her stuff when it comes
to politics. Bridget. Good afternoon, How are.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
You good, afternoon?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I'm pretty good, pretty good. Beautiful day in Wellington this afternoon.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
It's always a beautiful day in Wellington. I don't know
why you would question that.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
That's the spread. Are you fizzing for the all blacks tonight, Bridget?
Or you're a rugby fan?
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Ah? The only sport that I really follow is the
sport of politics, so I have to say no, not particularly.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
And it's quite a bloody sport at that, isn't it?
But entertaining nonetheless, And introducing our next panelist. Socialist and
emeritus professor at Massi University, Paul Spoonley is a wealth
of knowledge. He specializes in social change and demography and
it's impact on policy decisions. It's the first time for
Paul on the panel. Get a Paul, nice to see it.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Day Tail And Hi bridget it's sociologist.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Taylor, sociologist of course, yes, forgive them. Yeah, that's right,
that's right. And Paul, how are you? Are you fizzing
for the all Blacks? You're up in Auckland. It's at
Eden Park. You must be yes.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
And what a fantastic day. However good it is in Wellington.
This is better in Auckland.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Oh, here we go. The rivalry started already. Now, guys,
let's kick into It's a big international politics story this week.
Of course, Joe Biden, the US President, has rallied for
voters in Michigan today as he vows to stay in
the presidential race. He has told those voters he isn't
going anywhere. Biden's capability to beat Donald Trump for the
(03:53):
role was in the spotlight, of course, yesterday, when he
mistakenly introduced Lensky as Putin at a post NATO press conference.
This mishap has pushed another wave of Democrats to request
Biden step side. Bridget Off, start with you. I take
it you watched some of that press conference at the
NATO summit, and depending on what side of politics you're on,
(04:14):
either he smashed it out of the park and quelled
concerns or reinforced his mental acuity as rapidly declining.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
What was your take, I'm not sure I can say,
you know, depending on what side of politics you're on,
because I think even those people who you know want
sort of Biden to continue would not have felt like
that was a success. You know, for a success, it
would have had to him to have perfect you know,
answers to everything, you know, not make mistakes like he did.
And I think for most people, the ones that are
(04:42):
being polite, dlet's take our own Prime minister about Joe
Biden's condition, they're doing it because they're being diplomatic and
they need to not because they actually believe that he
has got, you know, the chops to continue on as president.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Paul. I mean, the bar was set pretty low after
that debate, and it was disastrous, so the bar was
already low. And the fact that he had a mishap
in the first cup minutes of that press conference when
he mistake his own vice president with Donald Trump, and
then he seemed to have a fairly concise run after
that but because the bar was set so low, as
(05:16):
he getting more credit than he deserves for that press conference.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
No, No, I think it's a train wreck. And I
just can't see them continuing with Biden because every time
you look at him, there are those pauses, there's that middle,
distant stare, there's the incomplete sentences. Everything about him says
that he's just not going to be up for the job.
Although I would say Tyler, repeating what everybody else has said,
(05:41):
are these the two best candidates that America can offer? Really?
I mean, you know, I've got a sense. I was
chairing a meeting up at up in Washington at the
World Banker a few months ago, and I did make
a comment, just off the cuff comment about Biden, and
boy did I get jumped on. So there's still a
(06:01):
huge commitment amongst some Democrats. But with George Lee coming
out in the way he did this week, I think,
you know, the end must be nigh.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
It's a big knock. But as you say, I mean,
it's almost satire, isn't it, Bridgid. It's like an episode
of Black Mirror that those two, those two are the
best that America, the Land of the Free, can offer
for a presidential race.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Absolutely, and I think it definitely shows that something is
very broken in the American landscape. It always just makes
it makes me so much more appreciative for the New
Zealand uplittle landscape. I think we've got many people who
could be prime minister, and we had, you know, quite
a lot of contest. I think also for people to
be prime minister. It does kind of shock me in
some ways that there wasn't more of a contest, particularly
(06:43):
on the Republican side in the US. That how Trump
was able to sort of rise up again. I would
have thought after his last presidency that the movement for
change away from him should have been so great that
they should have be able to rally behind another candidate.
But I mean, they just have not been able to.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Does it come back to money here, Paul, When you
mentioned there, George Clooney wrote the op ed in The
New York Times saying that he needs to step down.
Rob Ryiner and other Hollywood heavyweiters come out saying needs
to go. Michael Douglas. When you lose the backing of Hollywood,
and they are a formidable fundraising arm for the Democrats,
surely that's the nail in the coffin for Biden. If
he cannot have Hollywood beside him raising the cash, then
(07:21):
he cannot stand. He's got to step down.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Yeah, And I understand that at the moment Biden has
four times more cash in the bank than Trump. That
might change, of course. So and I just Cloney raised
twenty eight million at a fundraising event just a week
or two ago for Barden. It's just extraordinary money. So
I think when you lose your backers, and you begin
to lose Congress and senators, then you're losing your political base.
(07:48):
And I just I mean, they're gonna have to do something,
and I'm just not sure what that looks like and
whether Biden's going to keep saying I'm up for it.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Bridgette, you have advised a lot of politicians and ministers
in your career, and I know American politics is a
crazy beast, But how in the heck would his advisers,
those close around them, how would they advise some best
that Joe, it is time for you to stand down.
We know what you want to do here, but you
can no longer carry on, and you've got to put
your back into someone else.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Yeah, Ultimately, as an advisor, is your job to advise,
and you can provide all of the facts, and you
can provide the persuasion. End of the day, though you're
not the elected official, you're not the person that has
been put there by the people, and ultimately they are
the decision makers. So I see a lot of reader
wic around. You know, Jill Biden needs to say this,
or as advisors need to do this. Ultimately, if he's
been really stubborn and sticking his heels in, he has
(08:41):
got all rights currently to be there. He's been elected
to president. Currently, he's got the nomination for the next election,
so therefore he has to make that decision. I think
it's a very very difficult position for many of those
advisors who clearly are dealing with their train wreck every day.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
I just wonder whether or not they are being honest
with him and saying, look, you're just not up to this.
I wonder whether those that in a core of advisors
are really being honest with Biden about his ability and
his possibility winning.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
He's very little incentive for them not to be honest,
because ultimately, if that becomes a sinking ship, it tarnishes
their reputation as well, and it also makes it really
difficult for them to do your jobs. I don't know
any advisor who goes into the office, you know, into
their polugocy day and was, oh, well, whatever happens happens.
You always have something invested in and getting that job
(09:39):
done right. Therefore, they would absolutely incentivize to make sure
that he is making the right decisions.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
There must be that Well, the numbers must be still
in Biden's favor, Bridget, because we know the political machine
in America and we know that these are some of
the smartest political strategists in the world. So clearly they
are doing the research. They are looking at the numbers
around popularity. They are looking at at how popular Kamala
Harris is and some of those other potential tenders, and
(10:06):
they still obviously must be coming to the conclusion that
Biden's at the best shot we've got.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Well, I think there's lots of different polling out there.
Lots of the polling is showing that Trump will win currently.
But the problem that they have, I think is they
haven't identified who that replacement candidate would be. You do
need someone that's got a significant amount of name recognition,
which is why I think, you know, you get Michelle Obama,
that name thrown around quite a lot, and you need
someone that's actually going to motivate people to come out
(10:32):
and vote because they have extremely low turnout in the US.
It's really hard for a lot of people to actually vote,
so you need to motivate that. And that's the biggest
risk that Biden demonstrates is that he is unlikely to
actually get a lot of sort of moderate Democrats be
willing to actually take the time to vote. So I
don't think the polling does show that he is safe.
(10:52):
I think far from that. But the problem they've got
is that they haven't got something to demonstrate that they've
got a natural successor to him.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, I think at this stage, Paul, it would be
nice to see Dwayne the Rock Johnson put his name
back in the head for president. Can't do any worse, No.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
No, no, anybody would be better. And to add to
what Bridget said, there is a political process that they've
got to go through. So Biden is a confirmed candidate
for the Democrats, so they're going to have to have
a very different process to replace him. And I'm you
know that that is actually going to be quite challenging.
So rock the Johnson go.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah, yeah, just for for both of you. Before we
move on to the NATO summit, odds that Joe Biden
will step down before November. Paul 'll start with you.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Oh, I think it's got to be pretty much one
hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Yeah, bridget I just give it ninety nine because at
leave one per leave one percent on the table for
stubborn old men.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
And follow follow up question, who's going to take his place?
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Yeah, as I say this, no natural successor, and I
think that is their biggest problem. And yeah, I think
I can't tell you who that possibly could be.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
No, I mean, Harris not polling particularly well. Newsome, you know,
there are one or two candidates in the wings who
who would step in, but they're an unknown quantity. So Newsom,
Gaven Newsen, the Californian governor, might be a possibility.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Very good, Right, Let's move on to the NATO summit
at South Christopher Luxen's visit to the smone in Washington,
d C. Was a chance for him to rub shoulders
with other world leaders, and from the war in the Ukraine,
the concerns about China, there was plenty of meaty issues
to be discussed, and it seemed overall a fairly successful
trip for Luxon. Bridget start with you, how important was
it for Luxen to be there on the ground at NATA.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
I think domestically, it's always important to be seen, you know,
there's a bit of validation about being seen to perform
well on the world stage and be rubbing those shoulders.
We know, just Sindra a Durn for instance, he was
you know, well known for doing that job particularly well.
And I think Luxon has really proved himself this week
that he has got the absolute chops to do that.
I think, you know, sittings alongside Vilinski. The fact that
(13:04):
we had in announcement in which we're giving further aid
there and military support as well, I think that was
absolutely sort of perfectly timed. Also just really important for
us to be there because of the defense position. We
don't have a particularly strong defense force down here. We
know that we do need the support of allies, so
continuing to build those relationships and build those alliances is
(13:27):
really really important for us.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, Paul, for you, I mean, there was a lot
of talk in the last eighteen months about this idea,
idea of Orcus phase two that we could look to
come on board with, And in Joe Biden's press conference
he mentioned in New Zealand alongside Australia, in Japan and
South Korea several times. So do you think we are
getting closer to reforming those military ties with the likes
(13:52):
of the US.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yes, I do, But there is an issue here, and
that is since the nineteen eighties we've tended to New
Zealand has tended to adopt a multilateral, independent stance. So
if we're going to tie our ship to the American bandwagon,
then that will be quite a significant shift for US.
And I think at the moment, given the global situation
(14:14):
around the world that we're seeing these significant conflicts beginning
to emerge, we do have to step up and we
do have to be there, as Bridget said, in places
like Washington, being at NATO, being heard and being represented
there is absolutely essential. We are a very small country
with a very limited defense capability on the edge of
(14:37):
the world, and we need those connections because we don't
know what's going to eventuate.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Did we fracture that relationship? Bridget with the US When
it comes to strategic partnerships, Judith Collins has made mention
of that. Winston Peters has said we need to rebuild
that relationship. Was it ever broken?
Speaker 4 (14:55):
I think we did struggle definitely with foreign a fairs,
particularly during COVID. I think a lot of our foreign
afer focus is in the Pacific, and it's perhaps we
didn't do enough, I think during that time, particularly to
make sure that we you know, the clear thing with
the Pacific is obviously I personally think that we've got
a duty to make sure that we look after our
Pacific neighbors, but they are strategically important as well because
(15:17):
that Chinese US influence is really powerful, and that's where
we also have a role. So I think we do
need to do more. I would say Sintram was a
great ambassador for New Zealand, but I don't think we
had a particularly strong foreign minister during a quite a
lot of that COVID time.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
It is a bit of a typewrote for New Zealand,
isn't it, Paul? That we have an incredibly strong trading
relationship with China. China has made no bones about being
nervous of NATO allies pushing into the Pacific, which it
considers its region. We have to be very careful about
how we go about rebuilding some of these alliances.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Right, oh, we do, and we don't want to put
in jeopardy those trade arrangements that currently exist, because when
you look at China in terms of trading partners, China
is huge. But what Yen Stolton Camp talked about, he's
the NATO Secretary General. It was quite an interesting contradiction.
So he said, no, no, NATO's still Northern Hemisphere Defense Alliance.
(16:16):
We're not seeking to Expand however, he made a great
point of stressing that in the Indo Pacific there are
new tensions and so that's why Australia, New Zealand, Korea,
Japan were invited to NATO, and that's why we chaired
that meeting because NATO is trying to then link up
(16:38):
with some of these new dynamics that are beginning to occur.
And Bridges raised an important point. China has been moving
into the Pacific in a significant way. Earlier this year,
it signed a new compact with Fiji about training police
officers being involved with defense and security in Fiji. And
so you begin to get a sense that China is
(17:00):
edging out some of us, including Australia and New Zealand
out of some of those traditional alliances in the.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, I've got to say how nice it is that
we're talking about the NATO summit instead of a plane
breaking down some I'm so clad that lux and went
commercial this time, so we can actually talk about the
event rather than a plane that doesn't work. Guys, we're
gonna have to take a break. But after the break,
let's have a chat about retail crime. You were listening
to the Weekend Collective with Paul Spoonley and Bridget Morton.
(17:27):
It is twenty three past three, bagfree shortly here on
Newstalks hed b Cheez, I'm eager Anti. It is the
week In Collective of course, and you're listening to the
panel with our esteem panelist Paul Spoonley and Bridget Morton.
Thanks again for your time, guys, Thank you. Let's have
a chat about retail crime. This has been another big
story over the past eighteen months to two years, and
(17:48):
the government on Thursday announced a new advisory rather group,
headed by the chair of the Dairy and Business Owners Group,
to help ensure fewer victims of crime. Justice Minister Paul
Goldsmith says it was budgeted to cost about one point
eight million dollars a year for at least two years,
largely pay through the proceeds of Crime Fund, and as
I mentioned before, it will be headed up by Sonny Koushell,
(18:10):
the head of the Dairy and Business Owners Group, has
been very vocal on the topic of retail crime. Bridget,
do you have any faith that this advisory group will
be able to turn things around when it comes to
not just retail crime and the stats that we see,
but the general confidence of dairy owners, of liquor store owners,
of supermarket owners that things can change share and they're
(18:32):
going to get support.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
I think the first thing is course being felt like
you listened to. That's really empowering when you're a victim
of crime and to actually feel like you've actually got
a voice in changing things. I think also a big
thing for retail is the vast majority of our retail
businesses are small or medium businesses, so they don't have
the resources or the ability to do sort of big,
highly technical rollout and we saw originally, say with the
(18:55):
fog cannons, they took a long time to roll out
initially because it was really hard for actually have many
small businesses to engage with that process and get them
actually on board. And so I think this is where
this kind of group has value is because they can
actually look at a measure and go, well, that's practical
to actually have, or it's not practical, how will you
actually implement it? And I think that's the real.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Power it is. I mean, I'm speaking for myself, Pharrer.
It is heartbreaking to see these stories pop up again
and again on the news about a business that's been
broken into, and goodness, the last major one of the
breaking into the liquor store, I believe in the owners
tried to defend themselves and one of the owners was
very badly injured. It is heartbreaking and it's devastating to see.
(19:36):
But the talk here of this advisory group, and this
is from Goldsmith, that he says they're going to be
looking into the likes of security cards enabling business owners
to defend their property legitimately defend their property, and the
potential for using facial recognition. When it comes to facial recognition,
that's already been used in places like supermarkets, right, and
(19:57):
that doesn't seem to make much of a difference when
it comes to people trying to rip off those supermarkets.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
It's part of the armory that they it is available
to them. So I'm not sure how successful the supermarkets
have been in terms of identifying people who are repeat
offenders and identifying them at the point of entry. So Tyler,
I'm not I'm entirely sure that, but I agree with
I agree with Bridget because the Dairy and Business Owners
(20:24):
Group said earlier in the year, look, you're you're not
listening to us. So they expressed their disappointment that the government,
in terms of its quarterly targets, was not doing more.
So the government has moved to say yet, we are
gonna listen to you. And I heard Minister Goldsmith the
other day say what he wants to see from this
(20:44):
group is policy. So it's going to be very interesting
to see what those policies look like. And Tyler, you've
mentioned security cards, you know what you can legitimately do
by way of defending your property, and then facial recognition,
so let's see where that falls. But I have absolute
sympathy with these guys this and by the way, we
do you notice that we've moved from ram raids to
(21:05):
aggravated robbery. We're not hearing about ram raids, but aggravated
robbery is just an appalling situation to phase.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I saw a post on social media yesterday, Bridget and
again it does absolutely break my heart. And it was
clearly of a cafe up in Auckland, and it was
a note on the door that said, please don't break
our windows. We've got nothing of value in the property.
There is nothing here and we are dealing with inflation.
Our business may close and breaking the windows is just
going to be another cost that we cannot wear. I mean,
that's that's the bones of it for a lot of
(21:33):
those small businesses right now, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think that's why you go back
to the issue of whatever messus you bring in, you've
got to make sure that they actually can be something
that small businesses in particular can actually take up. Can
they you know, have they got the resources to actually
implement them or what kind of support that do they need?
Because that is absolutely heartbreaking because you know, there's a
direct line between that window getting broken and how much
(21:56):
money gets taken home by the owners to pay their power.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Bill that week.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
You know, it's a direct correlation. These are not big
companies that have bigger Christians to absorb some of these costs.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, I do worry about the looking into defending their
own property. And I say that as we've seen various
stories come to light where they've tried to do exactly
that and ended up very injured themselves and sadly, on
what one occasion two years ago, they ended up killed.
I do worry about that aspect that. And I know
(22:29):
this is an advisory board and they're just looking into
how owners can legitimately defend their own property. But Paul,
does that give you pause for concern when it comes
to taking it on yourself to try and defend your property.
That's not the role for a business owner. That's the
role for the police.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
It is, And I am concerned this is sort of
the American response that you can use lethal force to
defend your self and your property. And what I worry
about is the escalation of that aggravated aspect of the robbery,
that people are going to be armed because they know
the dairy owners are going to be on That's why
(23:06):
I rather like things like fog cannons and as a
way of preventing violence. And I do some work for
the police and what we're interested in is how you
de escalate a situation. So what are the tools that
are available to dairy owners to de escalate a situation,
bearing in mind that a lot of times, of course,
(23:26):
this escalates really rapidly. But what's available and what is
going to prevent injury to anybody in this situation? That's
the question. I don't know what the answer is, Taylor,
but I think that's the question we need to ask.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
It's a good question, and I think we can all
agree Bridget that the last thing we want in this
country is anybody going to their place of work or
their business fearing for their safety or lives.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Right, Yeah, absolutely, And I did have the same sort
of concerns over that particular sentence and the minister's press release.
So I do think there's some legitimate concerns about how
far we go. But you know, that could mean things
like folk can in type tools where they're able to
use something that maybe is a little bit more toxic,
(24:11):
but they're allowed it's really clear that it's legitimate to
do so, and then the circumstances and what it's legitimate
to do so. And I actually don't have a problem
with that type of activity.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Yeah, Paul Tyler, can I add something here because this
is a post COVID phenomena to a large extent, and
I have taken an interest in this and internationally, what
we're seeing is a very significant spike in retail crime.
So when we look at twenty twenty two in the UK,
there were six million, eight million a big parton incidents
of retail crime, and it had jumped to seventeen million
(24:43):
by twenty twenty three, and in Australia saying a thirty
percent increase. So there is something in all of our
countries which is driving this, and I suspect it's to
do with the cost of living plus some other aspects
of a post COVID situation. So we're dealing with the
safety of dairy owners here, but we're also there's a
(25:06):
broader issue in terms of what is actually driving this increase.
I mean, we're really talking about a very significant increase
in this country in the last year or so, twenty
percent increase. I think we probably need to talk about
some of those broader driving dimensions as well.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
So for your point, isn't it bridget that when a
society is overall doing pretty well economically then there is
a correlation with a decrease in these sorts of crimes
and the fact that we're in a cost of learning crisis.
Many people are out there, are doing it tough, and
I'm not for one minute sympathizing with somebody who breaks
into someone shot and whacks them over their head with
a hammer, But clearly it is causative with where we're
(25:45):
at as a society right now.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think yeah, we can all has
I think sympathy for somebody who's shoplifting, you know, nap
ease or bread or milk or that kind of stuff,
but there's no reason in which the aggravation should happen.
And I do think there's a little bit that we
lost during COVID, and I think probably Paul can speak
to it deeply, you know, with a sociologists not socialist
hat on to say that to really talk about, you
(26:11):
know what that sort of decrease in community or the
decrease in sort of connection to each other that we
lost during that sort of lockdown time. And that's you
know across the world where lockdown has happened as well.
And so you're seeing that, you know, equipment to a
lot of spaces, but I can see how that could
lead to people being more and more disconnected from the
people that they're actually you know, committing these crimes against
(26:33):
that they're not seeing them as people that are just
seeing it as something that has to be done.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
And much of this crime is done by locals to
the local community and to their local dairy. So there's
something that's going on there. In the UK, they tend
to highlight the cost of living combined with drugs and
mental illness to put the package together and organized crime.
I should have added that there's reasons to explain the
(26:58):
big spike in the UK. It'd be interesting to know
what is spiking it here as well.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah. Absolutely. I just want to have a check quickly
about the idea of inheritance tax. And this is speculation
at this stage, but Labor has hinted at the idea
of maybe having an inheritance tax policy ahead of the
next election. Bridge it. I'll start with you in politics aside,
and I know that's your bread and butter, but politics aside,
(27:25):
is there any value in your eyes and to looking
at an inheritance tax?
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Yeah, I think we absolutely should be looking at what
our taxes are and how they fall. My worry is
always when you're doing it from a reason of just
add and add and add, and you know so, rather
than saying, well, actually, because this is where value being created, therefore,
this is where we should be taking the tax. It's
just another way to raise revenue. And that always, aspect,
always worries me. There's also an element I find with
(27:52):
an inheritance tax which I don't like in terms of
our culture, which is inherently a sort of jealousy tax,
which is that these people have done well, therefore we
should tax that. And it is absolutely true, particularly in
our driven economy. But a lot of the money that
people have, they've already been taxed on income tax, in
(28:12):
company taxes, already happened on that money. Therefore, is that
the appropriate place to tax it? Or are you doing
it just because you can?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Paul, I mean the way that I see it, And
I think there's more value in having that discussion again
about capital gains tax, and I think the dial is
shifted in the public perception about whether there is value
in a capital gain stax. But inheritance tax, a lot
of Generation Z and indeed millennials have been told right
now no, you can't get into a house right now,
But just wait until mom and dad car get and
(28:43):
then you have all the money you need to get
into a house. Then they hear this sort of tax
and they think, well, there's no getting a head here.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
You know, it's it's a capital gains tax by another name, really,
isn't it, because you're you're you're taxing the capital that
you've accumulated over life. And then, as you say, Tyler,
you're preventing your children and grandchildren from inheriting that. Can
I go to something else?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Though?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
We're going to have to think about our tax system
because if I can put on my demography hat here,
what's interesting for most of my life, for every person
who's on superannuation, there are four people paying income tax.
Because of the changing demography of this country, we're actually
going to hit a two to one ratio quite soon.
So when you think about the costs of, for example,
(29:30):
a health system or a superannuation system for a very
large group of people who are going to be eligible
for it, and you think about how you raise tax,
we are going to have to have a discussion in
this country about how we generate tax. So inheritance tax
i suspect is part of the spectrum, but the current
system is not going to work for a lot longer.
(29:52):
It's not going to generate the tax revenue that we
need to provide for an aging population.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Bridget would you agree with that? I mean, it's been
talked about for the last out of forty years, and
it's always each government kicks that can down the road
because it's not palatable to the vast amount of voters.
But it seems to be there is tearing at the
seams of the fabric of society when it comes to
who's got the wealth and who doesn't have the wealth.
Do you think now is the time to start having
(30:20):
those serious chats about how we get taxed in New Zealand. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
The problem is that we sort of tried to have
that serious chat. You know, the Aduan government tried to
do the capital so it did a tax working group
and it became a sort of fight just about capital gains,
and we actually lost a lot of the interesting things
that were said in that report about how we looked
at tax And it's interesting because I think inher it
is taxes back on the table because a member of
(30:44):
that group has actually sort of raised it as a
kind of or put it up, put some arguments up
about four or against it. So I think we absolutely
should always be talking about The problem always is is
that we end up in the weeds. Last year's example
of gst Off fruit and vegetables, that was a ridiculous
discussion about tax because that was a clear example where
(31:06):
it was a political maneuver, only it did nothing at
all to actually help people. It actually was going to
be so complex to administer. And I just it is
so difficult to have a non politicized chat about tax.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
And I agree entirely with you bridget on that we
very quickly moved to polarized positions around this and we
can't really have an informed, evidence based discussion around what
The Tax Working Group I think produced some really interesting material,
and I listened to Jeff Nightingale talk to Heather plic Allen,
(31:42):
and I thought he made some really good points, But
one of his fundamental points was that he was in
this case he was talking about inheritance tax, is that
it's politically unattractive and that's the problem.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yep, that's the bottom line, Thank you very much. Right
after the break, we're gonna have a chat about what
makes a workplace attractive to work at. It is nineteen
minutes to for your into the Weekend Collective and the
panel with Paul Spoonley and Bridget Morton back very shortly
right here on news Talk set B. A very very
good afternoon to you when you are listening to the
(32:15):
panel on the Weekend Collective with our panelist Paul Spoonley
and Bridget Morton. Guys, let's have a chat about what
makes a good workplace. Air New Zealand has been crowned
the most Attractive Employer again for the second time running.
This is on the back of the Randstand survey. Paul,
I'll start with you, what does make an attractive workplace
(32:35):
or what is the most attractive workplace you have worked at?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
I worked for Massi University for all of my life, Tyler's,
so I must be pretty attractive.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Thing.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Well it is.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
But can I just declear something here because I'm a
judge for the Diversity Awards News Air New Zealand are
an applicant for those awards, so I just need to
be careful that I don't step over alone here. But
do people want to come to work and what's what
interests me at the moment. It's about but it's about
all the other benefits and the work environment, which is
(33:10):
super important in terms of do I want to work
for that particular employer. Putting on my hat as a
diversity judge would judge, what I look for is the
things that people want from a workplace. Very often these days,
it's flexibility. So there's an employer here in town where
(33:32):
all of the car spaces are open and you can
book them online. There are no offices, all desks a
hot desk, but you get flexibility. So it's a hybrid
working situation. You work from home, you work from work.
There are things that go on and actually those other
elements are often seen as important as salary. So it's
(33:55):
that total package. And I think employers have rarely got
to change in this contemporary environment, particularly this post COVID environment,
and begin to offer that flexibility and that you know,
do I want to work for this employer?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Vibe Bridget, is that what you've seen, you have employees,
you've been involved in business for a long time. Is
that what you're hearing is that, yes, a salary is
a good thing, but what I want most in my
work life is to have that good balance. If I
want to work four days a week, then I want
that option on the table.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Absolutely, And I actually haven't been in business that long.
You know, I spent most of my career actually in politics,
so you know, collecting a salary, and you know, that
salary had very little actually, you know, correlation between the
sort of value or even you know what businesses that
have happening, because it is such a sort of a
(34:49):
different kind of industries. Actually moving into business and becoming
an employer has actually made me think about this quite
a lot, and it is something that I should say
I do think about a lot, because particularly in the
last couple of years in Wellington, it's been really really
hard to recruit because we're competing against increasing public service salaries.
And I think for me there's two things. One, flexibility
(35:09):
is absolutely a massive one for our younger lawyers that
they do want that flexibility to be able to work
from home when they need to, but also, you know,
can they go to something during the middle of the
day and work at night. All of that kind of
stuff is really big for them, but also really interesting work.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Like actually being engaged.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
And for us, this is one of the ways that
we try to attract lawyers is that we do quite
different work to many other law firms, and that you've
got to be involved in something. You get to be
involved in something much more different than you would say,
a big firm. And so I spent a lot of
time thinking about this, and it was really interesting to
look at the factors that they, you know, they sort
(35:48):
of looked at in these awards, and one of them
being the sort of giving back to society. And to
be honest, I don't have any ever had one of
an employee or a possible employee ask anything about that,
So that was kind of interesting.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
It is a change for the generations, isn't it, Paul,
that it is a big thing for young workers now.
They want to make a difference. They want to sometimes
give back to the community. They want to do work
that is meaningful to them and not saying previous generations
didn't have that, but you could make the argument that
making sure that you put food on the table and
provided for your family was more important than the meaning
(36:24):
that that work brought you.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yes, absolutely, And so some of the things that I've seen,
notably in Auckland and particularly amongst corporates, is the you know,
a day a month planting native trees or putting together
a package that provides clothing or food for communities and
families that need it, and that is part of the
work environment. So it's a combination of working with your community,
(36:48):
working with members of your particular family, as well as
the employer. And I think it's that it's that total
package which people are looking for. A couple of weeks ago,
The Economist had a very interesting article about Generation Z
and pointed out that their expectations work were very different
from previous generations and that employers were struggling with that.
(37:10):
By the way, the subtitle they'd picked up on Chloe's
Wilbricks Okay Boomer and they titled it okay Zoomer. I'm
very good, Yeah, very good, And it's a really interesting
exploration about how different Generations Z are in terms of
what they expect from an employer and from their work.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Well worth a read. That's in The Economist. Yes, yeah,
Santas So I've got to take a break. After the break,
we'll have a chat about sol GP and of course
the All Blacks Tonight it is News Talk set B
ten to four final moments of the panel with Paul
Spoonley and Bridget Morton. Guys, we've got to have a
chat about the All Blacks and Bridget, I know politics
is your sport, but how refreshing is it having Scott
(37:49):
Robinson as coach? And that's not a knock on him, Foster.
He's just a colorful guy, isn't he.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (37:54):
Absolutely, they do like a bit of personality because it's
someone who's not a massive game watcher. Let's say, it's
always great to have that sort of color and that
sort of interest outside of the actual game.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, Paul, for you, will you be watching tonight?
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Oh absolutely, I'm I'm looking after the grand kids. Son
and his wife can go and what they'll be a
leading park, but I think it'll I think it'll be
great and Eden Park's a bit of a fortress. I'm
anticipating an All Black win. I'm interested to see who
will lead the hacker with. I don't know whether TJ.
Perrinada will be able to do that, but we'll see.
But they're yeah, no, it's great.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
It is exciting times. He watched your pick for the
score pool.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Yeah, well, I was listening to Pioney before I'm not
going with a fifty point a fifty point win to
the All Blacks, probably ten, ten, twelve points to the
to the All Blacks. The the Lions look pretty good.
They have. They shut down the All Blacks quite a
lot last week, so yeah, I think it'll be relatively tight.
But all Blacks on top.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, very good. They are a better team than a
lot of people gave them credit credit for. Yeah. And
and Bridget do you want to see Scott Robinson do
some break dancing at the end of the match if
they win? Always very very good. Paul Spoonlee sociologist, got
it right that time. Have my own Joe Biden moments
and Fridge at Morton, Thank you very much to you both.
(39:17):
Have a lovely rest of your weekend of willchet again
soon you two, Taylor all the best. Thank you. That
is the panel on the Weekend Collective right after four o'clock.
It is the one roof Property Hour. We're going to
be joined by Andrew Nickel, managing partner at Ope's Partners.
They are property investment experts. Get in early with any
questions that You've got a lot to talk about interest
(39:37):
rates being held by the reserve banks, I'm concerned there
that they still haven't cut those interest rates, and of
course it is a bit of a mutant property market
at the moment. So get in early with your thoughts,
your questions, your concerns. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty is the number to call and nine two ninety
two is the text number. Right new sport and weather
coming up. We'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talks it'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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