January 17, 2025 • 41 mins
Today on The Panel, Jason Walls is joined by Mark Crysell and Jo McCarroll to discuss the biggest stories from the week that was.
Donald Trump's upcoming inauguration, the looming TikTok ban, ACT Party calls for an increase in defence spending, and more!
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
EDB debating all the issues and more. It's the panel
on the Weekend Collective on News Talk said B but money.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Good afternoon and welcome to the Weekend Collective. You're used
to hearing Tim Beverage and if you're disappointed, it's me
Jason Walls, usually political editor down in Wellington, part time
talkback host over the summer break, now filling in for Tim.
So good afternoon, Thank you for being with me. We've
got a fantastic show, so stay tuned. I'm going to
(00:52):
be with you until six pm. But we're going to
start with the panel. I've been on the other side
of the panel, but never actually sat in the hot
seat debating it, so I'm quite excited. We got independent
documentary filmmaker and retired journalist Mark Kriisel. Hello Mark.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Hello, I'm not retired yet. I'm still in case somebody
has got a job for me out there.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well, you are in a newsroom, so it's the perfect place.
And we've also got Joe McCarroll who's a commentator and editor.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Hello Joe, Hello, Jason. Out of the Garden today, Out
of the garden. But which is too hot to be
in the garden today?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Is it? Oh?
Speaker 4 (01:22):
For me, I'm a bit of a sitting in the
shade with a cool drink.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
But is it good for the plant? I literally have
no idea how I could kill a plant in any condition.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Well, plants do require sunlight breaking years.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, you heard it here. First News talks v all right,
from plants to something else that I'm sure is going
to have a lot of debate. Donald Trump. He is
having his inauguration on Tuesday. It's the second inaugur duration
ceremony to take place from Donald Trump, and it is
going to be taking place indoors due to some dangerously
(01:55):
cold temperatures forecast in Washington, DC. Now usually obviously it's
done outdoors. And you'll remember in twenty sixteen, Trump claimed
that he had the biggest inauguration crowd of all time.
Will start with you, Mark, You're going to be watching.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Good question. I let my sky go, So if I
can find it for free on YouTube or something like that,
I'll watch it. I don't know, they're kind of boring.
I'd rather watch somebody put it together afterwards. It's an
interesting time in America, you know, and it'll be interesting.
I see he's gathered a few celebrities, no real A
listers there, but you know.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
You never have a really good Republican No, you don't
celebrities there.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
I don't have Lady Gaga in the National Anthem or
anything like that, or Beyonce. But I mean he's got
a lot of support, so he might get a lot
of people coming down. Who knows.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, I mean having it indoors is going to be
a little bit interesting.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Do you won't like that?
Speaker 1 (02:47):
No?
Speaker 4 (02:47):
What do you think, Joe, Oh, I think it'll be
pretty boring.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
You'll be watching a lot of a Trump fans famously.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Look, I think we're seeing the end of America's time.
You know, this is the end of the century of
America's sort of cultural domin and this is just the
sort of dissolution of it. But yeah, I'll kind of
work for the highlights thrail.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Some people would have said that the last time around
when he was there, and it's still kind of limped on.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
I don't think it's going to end, you know, immediately quickly.
But I think that's what we're seeing. And I don't
think Trump is like the the author of that. I
just think he's part.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Of it, right, What do you mean by that? Though?
Speaker 4 (03:27):
I just don't think America has the cultural the floor
like it used to. Like I'm interested my nieces and nephews.
They just have zero interest. They're interested in Korea, they're
interested in Japan. They have absolutely no interest in America.
They're not interested in Americans sort of music or films.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
And I know that's sort of Taylor Swift.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Taylor Swift has transcended nationality. She's she is a message.
GDP is higher than France.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I think, yeah, it's huge, But I still think America
has that soft power. You know, people not like Traump
or something. They're fascinated with them. But I think a
lot of people still want to be Americans and a
lot of people want to go and live there. It's
still and the economy is still booming, you know. I mean,
you know, for the for the person in the street
over there, you know, things looking pretty good.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
It's still the dominant superpower when it comes to the economy.
I mean, China has been the house for a number
of years, but if you look at the US economy
compared to the EU, for example, they've been comparable for
some time US has been steadily increasing, where it's the
EU not so much. So I get what you're saying
in terms of the cultural zeit geost it's not. I
think the.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Culture is ahead of the economy in this instance, and
I think it usually is. I heard an incredibly interesting
thing the other day about how many times we've seen
America destroyed in popular film, you know, and they were,
And the point was made that prior to the sort
of the prior to the turn of the Center, if
you're reading in books, where the cultural sort of heartland
was was London, so London would be destroyed. But this
(05:01):
century it's been America. But I but I think that
I think that time is coming to an.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I'm looking forward to the next movies where Auckland is
being destroyed because it's the.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
So if it's not America, who.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Is it, Like I say, I think it is China.
I think it is Korea. I think it is Japan.
And I just think that the next gin America's this
is a this is a fish flailing around in the
bottom of a boat.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Do you think that? I mean, given to take it political,
as I always tend to do here, they're the Americans.
You know, it's it's Republican the entire way through. They've
got the presidency, they've got the Senate, and they've got
the House. Do you think that, you know, at least
on a basic law making level, it's going to be
a little bit less turbulent because they can actually get
things done as opposed to being stopped every single step
of the way.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Mark, I mean, I still think there's like over well
close to half the electorate don't like him. Right, yeah,
he got it, he got a majority, and the Republicans
have a majority, But there's still a hardcore amount of
people who don't like Trump. And I remember speaking to
a woman years ago when I was living in Germany
and they had a very right wing leader. And there's
(06:04):
one thing that when you have a leader that you
don't like, you get really involved in politics. You get
up every day because what they're doing pisses you off.
And this I think, I think America will be chaotic again.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
I say America chaotic again.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Well, I remember a Canadian press professor saying living in
Toronto during the Trump years was like living above the
meth lab.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
And I see Canada the fifty third state you made.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah, well, yeah, well with Greenland and Panama Canal. But yeah,
I think I think it's going to be chaos again.
And I think, but we're kind of used to it now.
I think a lot of the things he says don't
really add up to much.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
But then again, nothing that Joe Biden said, I mean
towards the end there. You saw that first debate that
he had with Kamala Harris, and it was just at
first I watched it and I was like, oh, okay,
Joel's having a bad day. And then thirty five minutes
in you were like, Joe is toast. What do you think, Joe? Oh,
not you, Joe, You're fine.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Other Joe, Well, I mean I think if you were, Yeah,
if we were going to be compared to someone, i'd
hope my cognitive function was a bit more functioning. But yeah, look,
I think that was, like I say, it feels like
I'm watching a sad film, you know what I mean.
I think seeing Joe Biden clearly not capable at that
(07:18):
at that level, and that's not surprising, you know, that's
absolutely inevitable and to be expected cognitive decline. But I
found it very sad. But then I don't know what
you expected. I don't understand how these are the only
people who are in the leadership race.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Average age of the media or sorry, and women in
the Senate is up around seventy as well. It's kind
of a bizarre thing where they attract. Yeah, older people
seem to get into power over it.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I feel like that a lot of people have just
kind of only cottoned on to the Joe Biden is
a little bit dottery now. But I remember when I
went over to the US with just into our durn
back in twenty one, not twenty two, sorry, twenty two,
and we went into the White House and so we
all lined up and we were all there was the
New Zealand Press on one side, the US Press on
the other, and then it was, honestly, it was like
(08:05):
the trenches. That somebody pressed a button or they waved
a flag, and we all made our way into the
Oval office, and then Biden was there, ar Dern was there,
and we all clambered over each other just to get
on Mike's close enough to hear what Ardern was saying.
She was fine, but we couldn't hear a word Joe
Biden was saying he was And then he'd wake him
up in the United States is committed to and then
(08:26):
it was done. And so I feel like this has
been the case for some time.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I would overall that I wouldn't write America off just yet.
And there's still incredible things come out of America. They
have incredible, huge universities, amazing cities. You have New York, Chicago,
poor old Los Angeles, you know some of these places.
I mean, there is incredible stuff happening there. There's also
some dangerous things happening. There's a real danger of a
(08:52):
plutocracy starting to emerge, you know, the richest men in
the world getting all this extra power. But I wouldn't
write America off. It's able to turn on a dime
and recreate itself very quickly. This is four years. Once
this is over, he's gone. He can't run again. So
you know, someone could come out and someone younger and
fresher with new ideas, and America is good at doing
(09:15):
those kind of things.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, speaking of new ideas, they're banning TikTok Joe, are
you you were tektoker?
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Am I a TikTok?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
No?
Speaker 4 (09:22):
I don't tick the tok.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I've actually thought that I think the kids called rock
the Talk.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
I don't rock the top. I don't. What I actually
thought was almost funny again in a sort of blackly
comic way. Was that rush too?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Is it red note the Yes?
Speaker 4 (09:37):
And you know this sudden flight like there's you know,
one hundred hundreds percent increase of people on duelingo learning Mandarin.
You know, this has done more for America Chinese connection
than anything I've ever seen a politician.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Dude.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, And there's a sense of irony, isn't there because
the Supreme Court and that all of the lawmakers are
saying that, you know, there's concerns about national security and
the links to the Chinese government with bike dance who
owns tektok and now people are just going to this other.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Actually, I think he triesn't concern the actual users because
what was it. I think it was the most downloaded
app on the App Store. I think more than nearly
a million new users from America. And like I say,
these these huge number of memes and you know, viral
gifts and things of kiwis Americans and of Chinese people
(10:24):
connecting to each other and talking to each other, and
you know, talking about oh is America just like friend.
So I'm like, this appears to be uniting the world
in a way that social media that's really done.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, Mark, there could be an eleventh hour deal. You
think this is likely at all? I have heard some
rumors that Elon Must may be thinking of buying it do.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, it'll be interesting if if Elon Must tells Trump
stop it, maybe he will. I don't know, it depends
who really is the president. I think these things. I
think it's interesting, Joe. You know, like when when everybody
got grumpy with Twitter, when when Elon Must bought it
and Instagram started up threads and that was going to
replace that. It never really did.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Threads died, died nobody.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
And Spotify when Joe Rogan insulted or Neil Young left,
a lot of people said, oh, we're not going in Spotify.
Well that lasted for about five minutes. You know. I
think people get ingrained in those habits, and it's very
hard to recreate something else.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
I think it's hard to do it deliberately, but I
think it absolutely happens. I mean, you know, how long
have people been on TikTok. My feeling is it's only
less than ten years.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, I've been on for about five years, and I
tell you it dominates a lot.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
You can give it up anytime you.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Want, No, absolutely not. I've tried. I tried for a
month and then I came crawling back.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
But I feel like this is an example of like
my end of the world catastrophizing. It's you know this,
you know, we're worried about the danger of the you know,
Chinese accessing this data, and then you've got me a
liberal billionaires queuing up to buy it. I mean, like,
I think we're worried about the wrong thing, Like the
call is coming from inside the house people look.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I think. But also I think we know whenever we
saw up to any of these apps, you've got to
be you know, your head in the sand if you
don't think your data is being stripped. Yeah, every time.
That's that's the that's the deal you make.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
I'm more concerned about these non elected tech bros who
do not really seem to me to have a high
level of EQ trying to control the platforms which shape
the public discord.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I've always I've always thought that about America, how they
can just appoint their cabinet and so you have these
very very high powered people that as you say, non elected.
It's like it's a cabinet of as well.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
But when it works well, it works really well. I mean,
you can hire a no that brides winning economists to
be your this.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Spot works pretty well when it's working, I suppose, no.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
But with the cabinet, I mean, in some ways, I
think it's better than picking someone who's been a grosser
in Kaipitra to be the Minister for agriculture or something
like that. You know what I mean. I think in
some ways, if you if you use that well, you
can pick the best and brightest and create a really
good cabinet. Or you can pick these guys. You can
pick a vaccine denier to be your secretary of health.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Yeah, and Mel Gibson's in there, And.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
When did that of the cabinet?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
He's not in the cabinet, but I think he's.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I miss I've missed some news.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
He's appointed Rocky John Voight and Mel and Mel to
be ambassadors to Hollywood to try and repair relationships around
the world.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
If I if I were a lawmaker in the US,
I'd steer clear of Hollywood. I think the age of
celebrity endorsements. I mean, look at everybody who came lining
up for Kamala Harris. You know, it was just like
there was Usher was up on stage being like, vote
for Karmala Harris, and everybody, every celebrity you could shake
a stick at, was lining up to say vote for
Krmala Harris. And it's just ridiculous because people look at
(13:58):
celebrities and they say, you've got millions of dollars, you're
one of these elites. Why would I trust what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Well, this is the whole thing with Trump. He is
an outsider and seen as an outsider, people feel disenfranchised
by the democratic process, and it's highly surprising. It's the
best democracy money can buy and nothing, nothing changes for them.
The same people come in, go out. Here's a guy
disruptor and it's working for him. And I think there's
(14:24):
a real lesson for that. You know that if you
don't take people with you when you make policy, if
you don't listen to what they're really worried about, this
is what's going to happen. We're going to end up
with people like that.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
But he did get reelected, Joe, so is that a
nod that he did take people with him last time.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Well, I think he absolutely did get re elected. He
won that election. I had a lot of friends of
will you know, oh boohoo, and I thought, well, that
was an election, that was a free and fair election.
But at the same time, I think there is a
paucity of options, you know, I think Trump, I think
the situation is the same in New Zealand. I think
it's the same in Australia. I think people just feel
disenfranchised from all of it.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yeah, it's interesting. I felt that it's terrible, isn't it, Cynicle.
And maybe we've just we have five hard years of
COVID and bad weather and bad economy. But it feels
like politics now does not solve the big issues. Just
it's a popularity contest, so they just do things to
get themselves re elected. You know, there's no We've got
big problems. We've got the climate, we've got inequality, we've
(15:22):
got the economy, we've got an unfair tax system, all
these sorts of things nobody wants to tackle that it's
too hard.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Well, speaking of all those things that you mentioned, we
do have some New Zealand base news this week are
great segue is and they you would be thinking, you
thought that I would have done this for years. So
the Nats. It's not looking good for the Nats. And
the latest poll they are down to twenty nine point six.
They dropped four point six percentage points, which is quite
remarkable given nothing has happened since the last poll. Because
(15:50):
it's a a summer. They've been leap rugged by the
Labor Party, who are up to about thirty one percent mark.
You're you're nodding, You look like you're itching to have
something to say.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Also, we should be interviewing you, Jason. He actually I was.
I looked at those numbers. So the Nats are down
four and see and Labor are up for so are
those people going over to Labor?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Well, I mean that looking at the numbers, it's it
looks like a swap. I mean, it does make sense.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Because it's interesting. So the center, yes, it is very
fluid at the moment.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
That's what it would appear. So in this poll, I mean,
I would have the caveat as I always do. One
pole does not an election make, but it is still
I mean, Joe, what was your reaction when you saw
the NATS the governing head of the governing party for
that far.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Well, I don't think this is anything Labor has done.
But at the same time, I don't think it's anything
National has done, because I think a lot of people
feel they haven't done very much. They came in on
a big talking point. You know, we're going to make
a difference. We're going to look at these bread and
butter issues. I don't know who can afford butter anymore,
but I am telling you they just I feel like
(16:52):
that that the polling question within that poll was are
we heading in the right direction? I think that's a big,
you know, a big turn, and I think that you know,
it's there's lots of things that would contribute to that,
but I think the point was actually it was you
last night on talkback. You know, you think I was
at the treaty Principal's bill, but then the pole in December.
This this is a different result from that. You changed
(17:14):
the last one.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
We had a couple of weeks after the HIKOI didn't
really move the NATS at all.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
So I think, really, this is the economy and our
economic direction and the fact that I think people are
doing it hard, they feel and this is feather to
your point, Mark, they feel like no one is helping them.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
No, it's interesting that I'm talking about the Treaty Principal's
Bill acted down by two points and the Greens up,
who've had a rough year.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, so where they've got this core base of support
that just remains steady, I.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Would say, and again, you know, they're probably more politically
aligned to me, the Greens. But I would say then
I don't know how you mean vote, but anyway, I
would say, I think Chloe Swarbrick has a real opportunity
here because she has the res you know, she's just
got X factor. And I think there's such an opportunity
for a smaller party, whether or not it's a smaller
party that exists now or it's something new. But I
(18:02):
feel like just people are so disenfranchised with the mainstream
political parties.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And we have back up that point. New Zealand First
are actually probably one of the big winners. Later are
the big winners. But they were up, I mean they
were up quite significantly in New Zealand First and Winston
they were up to eight eight. Yeah, they got they
got quite a significant bump. So this time lasts that
this part of the sacle. When New Zealand first were
(18:29):
in government, they were polling closer to two maybe three
percent on a good day. Now they're up to eight.
They're well beyond that five percent threshold. So, I mean,
is the question here as to your point of people
getting disenfranchised by the big parties and starting to splinter
off into some of the small ones, Mark, what's your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Well, that happens, doesn't it. I mean, but as this,
if these numbers settle in a bit, then I think
those smaller parties in the government are going to get
a little bit nervous and I think it could lead
to a bit of tension. And also it puts Winston
once again in the position of king maker coming up
to the next time round. You know, he can quite
easily make the case if he's sitting in the middle
(19:06):
on numbers like this next time and it comes down
to going with labor, he can make the point, you know,
is it me? Do you want to take me or
to party Marti? And you know he would do that.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah, And that's the point that they'll make. We'll take
a quick break and when I got back, I'll tell
you a little bit about what Winston Peters said to
me in my end of year interview with him News
Talks d B. It's just gone twenty five past.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Three, get down.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Speaking of Winston. Peter's excellent song choice coming into the break. Then,
So my Winston story. So every year before the holidays,
all the political editors get to interview every one of
the political leaders of their parties. And I sat down
with Winston, and I hope he's listening, because I'll give
away my technique to interviewing Winston. The first question has
to be a butter up, mister Peters, how are you
(20:01):
so good at everything that you do? How do you
do the things that nobl able to do? And then
you can get into the more nitty gritty evers. But
he was telling me right towards the end, because I
had to leave these questions to the end. You're like, oh,
you know, some people might think that you're a little
too senior to be a leader of a political party.
What do you make of that? And he said, essentially, well,
I still run rings around those people, and I'll continue
(20:22):
to do it. But he says he's running obviously the
next election, and if he wins, he's staying until the
next election as well, So he's going to be here
for a while. And I think that given the fact,
I here's my opinion on Winston. I think he is,
if not the best, one of the best foreign affairs
ministers that we've had.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yeah, I'd rather have him in the government than out
of a government because he doesn't make as much mischief
when he's in the government and he's well respected overseas.
I did the same thing in the twenty seventeen election.
I spent three days on the campaign trail with him
and I said, aren't you a bit old mate, you know?
And he just launched into me, you know. And then
we went to the conference and he called me out
(21:02):
in the middle of the conference, just, you know, completely wasted.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
He's done that to me as well. I was sitting
in the front row and he starts talking about mainstream
media and he tells around, isn't that right, mister Walls, Yes,
And then all the supporters glare at me. I'm like, no, I'm.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
The world a much better place.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah, what do you think, Joe Winston, he's going to
be around for the long haul?
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Well, you know, God willing. But at the same time,
I think New Zealand. First, they kind of have a
ceiling on the support they're going to get. I think there,
I think Winston is the party and so no Winston
eight percent. Well, that's what That's why I feel like
there is really room in the New Zealand political space
(21:44):
for another party. I think there's room for that Blue
Green Party.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
I think not the Blue Greens, get it out of
here a second conversation. Rather it's going to happen. It
would have happened, and it just happens.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
True. I know so many people who say top they're
coming back, they never do. But there is other countries,
in some growing up countries around the world, like Germany,
there is there is always a party like the Free
Democrats in Germany where they go basically with either side.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
The Garden Party.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I'm starting it the Garden Party.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It would just be a clone of the Greens, right. Yeah,
it's an interesting one. I mean, I think from my
perspective on this pole, it is the economy. It's it's
the cost of living. I mean, if you look at
the numbers, the number of people that think that we're
on the right track versus the wrong traffic Because now
there's more people thinking we're going the wrong way than
the right way, and you cannot win government on that.
(22:37):
So the NATS, to their credit or to their defense, essentially,
the reserve banks cut interest rates a few times. It's
going to take quite a while for that to filter through.
And it's just the beginning of their middle year in Parliament,
so they're not at panic stations yet. And the underlying
premise of this whole pole is that the coalition is
still ahead sixty two seats to fifty eight. So technically
(23:00):
this is how m ANDP is supposed to run. It's
just I think, and this might be a controversial opinion.
We've only had m MP since ninety six it was,
it's still a relatively new form of government for us.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yeah, you have to be a little bit more grown
up when you use MMP. You've got to sit down
and you've got to build coalitions and compromises and things
like that. And we're still at the adversarial stage. I
think as we get better at.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
It, I don't think this is how MMP is supposed
to run, because I think we have a situation where
the tail is very much wagging the dog in the
coalition government. I do not think Luxon is running the room.
I think you know Whenston Peters agree with you, Both
one hundred percent are very canny political operative you know
Seymour two. I think they are both running rings around Luckxon.
(23:45):
So I think National are the party that had the
majority of the vote share, they should have the majority
of the decision making weight, and that is clearly not
what came out of this coalition.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Are you Are you just referencing the Treaty Principal's Bill.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
I think the Treaty Principal's Bill, I think other bills
as well. I just think that this is this is
an example where I don't This is where this is
where I think Nahal is falling behind and who I
think should be nervous about that pole result is Luxeen.
I just don't think he's showing an example of strong leadership.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
What do you think, Mark, Well, he's not resonating it.
You know, with a lot of people across the country.
I think one of the he just he had a
real opportunity to be a leader during Thathkoy. I think
he could have walked out of Parliament and just said look,
I'm here for all of you. This is tough at
the moment, but you know, together we can get through
(24:34):
big moments. Leaders make you know, good speeches bring us together,
things like that, and I feel like we're just getting
further and further apart. He's quite happy to embrace that
Treaty Principles Bill, even though he admitted on Q and
A to Jack Tame that he knew it would divide
New Zealand. And that's that's not what I want to
see in a prome man.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Now important to note though, that they're not supporting him
the second reading. It's head in the water.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
But he could have killed earlier. He could have said
no to it. And if David Seymour said it wasn't
the bottom line, then that he didn't even have to
do it at all.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I think it's fair to say that he underestimated the
pushback that he would get from the New Zealand public
on this one ca you to talk about the Act
Party's defense spending policy. There, they're arguing that Jnald Trump
is another reason New Zealand needs a ramp up it's
defense spending. It's proposing and they've been proposing this for
some time now. New Zealand invests around two percent of
its GDP to the defense budget, which is currently about
(25:27):
zero point nine percent. Now, I've asked Judith Collins about
this Defense minister and the glean in her eye when
I suggest bolstering her budget by half. It reminded me
of the old days when she was the leader that
obviously she's not anymore. I mean, Joe, does New Zealand
need a defense budget this high?
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Well?
Speaker 4 (25:43):
I mean, I think Mark Cameron made the point. You
know that it is a less the world is a
less safe, less predictable plays. I think it is. You know,
it's just a more complicated strategic environment right now. I
think you know that this isn't even about potential conflicts.
I think, you know, looming climate change means we need
a defense force that can respond to domestic emergency situations.
(26:04):
And I think so Gabrielle proved that we don't necessarily
have that right now. I'm not, however, sure. So yes,
I think we do need to invest in our defense force.
But then I don't think that is the solution by itself,
because I think our defense force has some systemic issues.
I think that's not a secret. You know, there's terrible attrition,
there's problems with the housing stock, there's you know what
(26:25):
comes out. I don't know if this is you know,
systemic or just you know, the occasional bad egg. But
you know, there's problems with bullying, there's problems with you know, culture,
there's problems with a safe working environment for.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Women ships famously. I mean Mark Job makes a good
point there because in New Zealand people shouldn't think of
our military the same as they do the United States
or the Israeli Defense Force or or anywhere else in
the world. Primarily our defense forces to do with things
like helping in the Pacific and a great example around
cyclone gabriel Gabrielle. So wouldn't having two percent of GDP
(27:00):
to help with more of those emerging threats be a
good thing?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
I think it's a good thing. I mean the proudest
I've ever been as a New Zealanders actually seeing the
New Zealand Army come in into East Team or when
stuff was kicking off there. I mean, they made me
super proud. They were multicultural, they worked on a very
grassroots level with the locals and they calm things down.
They are amazing And I remember an Australian reporters saying
to me, Oh, thank god, the Kiwi's here finally some
(27:27):
real men, so you know, but they would they had
the wrong gear for the climate, you know, and all
this kind of things. So I think we do. But
if we spend two percent of our GDP on defense,
what money aren't we spending on health?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
The opportunity cost?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yes, and I think we've got some real significant problems
across the board and health and education and infrastructure, all
those sorts of areas. Everybody's got their hands out. But
if we want our play our part internationally and be
a good global citizen, then we have to you know,
our way as well. We've piggybacked off others for a
(28:07):
long time.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, take a quick break. While we're in the break,
I've got some homework for Joe.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Joe.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
New Zealand's GDP is roughly three hundred and eighty billion
dollars a year, so you're going to find out in
the ad break what two percent of two hundred and
eighty billion is. News talk, said B. Will be back after.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
You're feeling down now to swallow make you happy.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Down, News talk, said B. Jason Walls filling in for
tim Bedbridge here with Mark Krissell and Joe McCarroll. Joe,
before the break, I gave you a homework assignment. What
was the GDP again, What the GDP was? I actually
said three hundred and eighty It's actually four hundred and
twenty billion.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Four hundred and twenty billion. Then it is eight point
four billion.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Bang on, bang on, bang on, bang on. I said, like,
I checked it, but it sounds right. Yes, two percent
of New Zealand's GDP.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
It heaps of money.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
It's heaps. It is heated. No, it's not. How much
does he have that's a question for another top I
Ragon all right, Goalrez is back in the news. A
shoplifting complaint against the former Green MP is understood to
relate to an incident where she was allegedly seen placing
items into a tote bag at the Royal Oak Pack
and Save in late twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Now.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
The Herald first reported this on Wednesday and saying that
the police investigation was underway, but a source has told
The Herald when the former MP was at the supermarket,
her manner of shopping, in particular the way that she
was carrying the items, aroused the suspicion of the store security.
So any surprise that Goalrez is back in the news
for stealing mark allegedly.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Yeah, all of it's sad, really, I mean, there was
there was a great article by David Fisher in the
Hera this morning about this. You know, she puts some
stuff in the tote bag. She never made it to
the cash registered to pay for it or anything to
check out. So, I mean, I just seems like a
really tragic story that she's once again getting, you know,
(30:03):
a good kicking, and it happened around that seems that
it happened around the time when she was going to
court last time. The police wanted to include it as
part of the charges, but we're told that it probably
wouldn't stand up since she was not going to the checkout.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
So, yeah, Joe, do you think this is a good
kicking or is it just accountability for somebody that was
in a position of power for so long.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
Look, I actually don't think this is a matter for
public interest. I don't think it should be reported on.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I think I think it should be reported I don't
think she's a Newsmaker's somebody that's still in the public eye.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
She's in the public eye, but I think you could
make the case that this is not to shift. I
think you would say, and again I'm alleging. I don't
know this woman, I don't know the story, but I
think you would say this was looks from the outside
like a mental health issue. I think this I mean
the story as you say, Joseph, I mean, you know,
I don't think a lot of people would have gone, well,
(30:56):
I feel like there's some stuff we're not being told here.
We don't know the whole thing. Because if she put
stuff in a topepag but hadn't left the store, I
don't think that's going to stand up as shoplifting, even
if that was her intention. I don't think that stands
up at shoplifting. You have to have left the premises.
I think this is a vulnerable person. I don't see
the public interest. I think this feels this feels just
(31:18):
sort of tabloid gossip.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Would you be saying the same thing if it was
a national MP that had been convicted of stealing and
then they're gone and stole something from pack or tried
to steal something from Paka so.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
As she was when she was an MP and she
was being paid by the public person, I think at
that point she is there is public interest. But now
I think she is an individual. I would say, I
don't see why this is more worthy of reporting on
than another individual who is court shoplifting.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Mark, you're an next journalist a situation she's a person
of public interest.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
No, I think there's still there is still interest she
you know, she sort of transcended politics in a way
I can think of a number of because she had
like a famous boyfriend, she was she was very public
in her opinions and things like that. She had a
very high profile. So I think I don't think that
goes away Sadly, that goes with the territory. You know.
(32:08):
I think some of the early reporting didn't tell the
whole picture, so it just felt like she's out shoplifting again.
When you look at the facts, actually it looks like
this wasn't a shoplifting incident.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
But it was going to be like if she well,
we can't say that, can We've been saying pretty definitively
she put it in her tote bag and she was
maybe can be laying out of the store.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Well while she though we don't know that, I mean,
will we know she puts some stuff into her trolley
and some into a tote bag. I mean, it doesn't
look good. But if if the prosecutors don't believe that
they can make a case in course, then I don't
think we can make a case on the radio. I think,
you know, probably is not shoplifting. But yeah, I think
she's dealing with a whole lot of stuff and to
(32:50):
be in judging this up again is tough. But I mean, sadly,
that's something that goes with the territory of having a
public profile, Joe.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Is there an argument to be said here that maybe
this is all a bit of a misunderstanding. She was
shopping and instead of putting something in a trolley, she
put it in a tote bag, and she would have
brought it out at the end to pay for it.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Look, I've seen people do that at the supermarket, just
put stuff into like you know, they're recyclable shopping bags.
I assume they're going to pay for it. But I mean, again,
I just think there's there's so much in that story.
I think we have not We just don't know, you know.
I think if the police are showing any kind of interest,
there's more to it than we're being told. Because there's
no way if you put stuff in a tote bag
(33:28):
and then didn't leave the store, I think the police
would say there's nothing they can do that. There's nothing
you could be charged with. You could wander around the
supermarket with a tope bag full of stuff, I think, Although.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
It reminds me of in New Zealand and other countries,
it's not illegal to check it for doors unlocked.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Really Yeah, in someone's house.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yeah, you walk up to someone's house, just twist the
knob and just just checking. The story changes there a
little bit. I'll tell you what. I will not be
taking a top bag to a supermarket anytime soon. I'll
tell you what I think that's changed that when they're
moving on a little bit. Luke Comb's but a country
for you, you guys fans.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Huge fan. Well, I'm not so much of Luke colmbs fan,
but I've liked country music for years. I love it.
I've been to Nashville, one of the coolest places I've
ever been. With this story a few years ago on
a New Zealand country singer there trying to make it.
But I love country music. I just think it's it
hits emotions, it's plent of and I'm not surprised. I'm
(34:25):
surprised there isn't any like a full time country music
station in New Zealand. Oh yeah, yeah, they should be.
I think it'd be a mess of it.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
I mean, if Luke Colmbs can sell out Eaten Park
two nights in a role, there's obviously the demand, right,
What do you think.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Joe, Well, what I would say is I came here
just sort of through the area that concert's going to
be held, and I did not know so many people
had cowboy boots. I mean, if you told me that
Luke Colmes was you know, a conspiracy orchestrated by Ram Williams,
I would believe you. In this country, did they have
(34:59):
the cowboy boots already? Did you already have the plaid
shit and the daisy jakes? Because they there are so many.
It's like when you go to the film festival and
you're like, are there any berets left?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
There must be one store that does absolutely smashes it
during film the film time.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Last time I was in America, I bought a cowboy
hat in Austin and Texas. Oh my god, when I
wear it, it just feels so good.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
How much does a cowboy hat.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
See oh wow, really experence. It was an incredible store.
It was full of boots and cowboy clothes and hats.
This one, you know, I think it was about eighty
US dollars, but I could have bought one for six
seven hundred dollars. And there were Americans walking in and
just try, you know, buying hats and wearing them everywhere.
I think, you know, there's been yellow Stone, There's been
(35:48):
a whole lot of stuff recently. Taylor Swift was originally
a country singer, and I think you know, and also
you're getting black singers, a lot more black singers inside
country music now, and there's rappers coming over and things
like that. So I think, you know, it's it's music
that really hits people on an emotional course.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
They didn't actually read a study years ago that country
music is something that appeals to you on an atavistic level,
like it's beyond your intellectual level. It's and it's country
music and it's African drumming. You respond to them.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Just those are two very different things. Why do you
think it's because I.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
Think they're both things you just can hardly resist, you know,
the music you're just you're carried away. Your toe is
tapping to country music, and that is true.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
It is.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
And I think drumming too. You just give you know
you can hear the beat. I think you respond to
it at a very sort of primal level.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
And the only thing that ever happens is your girls
going to leave you, and your dog's going to die, and.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
You're going to drink a lot of moonshine and you're
going to waste all your money on boots. Apart from
Luke Holmes, Have you got a favorite country singer, country artist?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I got it. I've got a lot. I mean, I
like that. I like the old old country movement a
few years ago was people like you know Ryan Adams
and you know Whiskey Town, Wilco. There are a lot
of really great ones, but you know, even some of
the classics, you go back to this. Willie Nelson has
some amazing stuff. And I'll think of another name, but yeah,
(37:12):
I'll look at my Spotify.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Lest who's who's the one working nine to five and
she does it with her nails. Her name is Dolly Parton.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Of course she was an icon. If I could recommend
a podcast as Dolly Partners America is the most incredible listener,
and it just talks about how she straddles all these worlds.
She brings red Nicks and gay people together. They're all
in the same room, they're all loving the same She could.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Rescue America, make America great again with Dolly Parton.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
If America Dolly Again.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
If I could recommend a podcast, it would be the
Weekend Collective that you can find on the news dogs.
They'd be website. We'll take a break and be back
after this. Jason Walls and you in with you this
weekend for the Weekend Collective. Filling in for Tim Beverage. Rather,
we got Mark Chrysell and Joe McCarroll. I hope he's
not listening to me bed is he?
Speaker 3 (37:59):
No? I thought you said tim bedrhythm. Oh.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
I was going to say, well, if you Tim, wherever
you are, I hope you are. I hope you're doing
well in are not bedridden. Just before we cap off
the panel, I'm keen to talk about sale GP this weekend.
Joe you a fan? Did you get into it?
Speaker 4 (38:15):
I must say I wouldn't. I've got lots of friends
who are down at the Harbor today and they're hanging
around in the apartments, looking over the balconies and down
on the grandstand. But it's one of those things I
think is much more interesting to watch on tep TV.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
I tell you the way that you've described it. If
I had an apartment overlooking the water, and I had
a couple of cheeky bubbles and it was playing on
TV at the same time, that's an afternoon A sale
G and t A.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
I keep calling it at home sale GPT, but I
think that's when the AI take over.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
I kind of like the futuristic kind of vibe of it.
You know, it feels like something out of RoboCop, these
massive things just flying past.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
I respect the technology, you know. I think it's just
it's hard to follow in real life unless you, I
suppose you're a real zealous follower of sailing.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
No I like, but I like the idea of an event,
any event where people come together, they get out, they
get out of their houses, like Grab the Experience or
something like that. Whether it brings money into the city
or not, and who knows, These numbers are always up
for debate. I think it's good that people get involved
with I.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
Agree, and I do really like it, and I thought
that Today I was like Auckland, it's really buzzing. Today's
actually stunning day. People out in the beautiful white Luke
comes again. Everyone's got the cowboy boats on.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
What about the dolphins? Have they cleared? There's no dolphins.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Can't the dolphins This might be a controversial opinion, but
can't the dolphins just go somewhere else for the afternoon?
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Where the boats are?
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I don't know. Maybe I don't know enough about them.
I'm with you. I think that like watching it would
be tough because you don't get the markers that you
do on TV, and you've got to be a super
fan to know how it's all working. But by gosh,
if I don't love to see them up on the foils.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
I can't. I can't imagine people who go to form
You On One races as well, because all I can
imagine it would just be something Yeah, so you wouldn't
see anything.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
No, But I'll tell you what, I really want to
go to Melbourne for the Formula one because it's not
just the races. It's a carnival atmosphere really, Like there
is the all the tents, You've got the red Bull
tant and then you've got the Mercedes Tan. I mean,
this is the big munt. You can't like me a
Joe average sort of talk, part time talkback holes, couldn't
walk in it as.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
Using of the name Joe during this show to Jason.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Well, I really appreciate you both coming in. Thank you
so much. This is the Weekend Collective. It's being Mark
Kreisel and Joe McCarroll. Thank you so much for coming
in us talks. That'd be.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Them. For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to
News Talks It Be weekends from three pm, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks
EDB debating all the issues and more. It's the panel
on the Weekend Collective on News Talk said B but money.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Good afternoon and welcome to the Weekend Collective. You're used
to hearing Tim Beverage and if you're disappointed, it's me
Jason Walls, usually political editor down in Wellington, part time
talkback host over the summer break, now filling in for Tim.
So good afternoon, Thank you for being with me. We've
got a fantastic show, so stay tuned. I'm going to
(00:52):
be with you until six pm. But we're going to
start with the panel. I've been on the other side
of the panel, but never actually sat in the hot
seat debating it, so I'm quite excited. We got independent
documentary filmmaker and retired journalist Mark Kriisel. Hello Mark.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Hello, I'm not retired yet. I'm still in case somebody
has got a job for me out there.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well, you are in a newsroom, so it's the perfect place.
And we've also got Joe McCarroll who's a commentator and editor.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Hello Joe, Hello, Jason. Out of the Garden today, Out
of the garden. But which is too hot to be
in the garden today?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Is it? Oh?
Speaker 4 (01:22):
For me, I'm a bit of a sitting in the
shade with a cool drink.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
But is it good for the plant? I literally have
no idea how I could kill a plant in any condition.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Well, plants do require sunlight breaking years.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, you heard it here. First News talks v all right,
from plants to something else that I'm sure is going
to have a lot of debate. Donald Trump. He is
having his inauguration on Tuesday. It's the second inaugur duration
ceremony to take place from Donald Trump, and it is
going to be taking place indoors due to some dangerously
(01:55):
cold temperatures forecast in Washington, DC. Now usually obviously it's
done outdoors. And you'll remember in twenty sixteen, Trump claimed
that he had the biggest inauguration crowd of all time.
Will start with you, Mark, You're going to be watching.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Good question. I let my sky go, So if I
can find it for free on YouTube or something like that,
I'll watch it. I don't know, they're kind of boring.
I'd rather watch somebody put it together afterwards. It's an
interesting time in America, you know, and it'll be interesting.
I see he's gathered a few celebrities, no real A
listers there, but you know.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
You never have a really good Republican No, you don't
celebrities there.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
I don't have Lady Gaga in the National Anthem or
anything like that, or Beyonce. But I mean he's got
a lot of support, so he might get a lot
of people coming down. Who knows.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, I mean having it indoors is going to be
a little bit interesting.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Do you won't like that?
Speaker 1 (02:47):
No?
Speaker 4 (02:47):
What do you think, Joe, Oh, I think it'll be
pretty boring.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
You'll be watching a lot of a Trump fans famously.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Look, I think we're seeing the end of America's time.
You know, this is the end of the century of
America's sort of cultural domin and this is just the
sort of dissolution of it. But yeah, I'll kind of
work for the highlights thrail.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Some people would have said that the last time around
when he was there, and it's still kind of limped on.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
I don't think it's going to end, you know, immediately quickly.
But I think that's what we're seeing. And I don't
think Trump is like the the author of that. I
just think he's part.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Of it, right, What do you mean by that? Though?
Speaker 4 (03:27):
I just don't think America has the cultural the floor
like it used to. Like I'm interested my nieces and nephews.
They just have zero interest. They're interested in Korea, they're
interested in Japan. They have absolutely no interest in America.
They're not interested in Americans sort of music or films.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
And I know that's sort of Taylor Swift.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Taylor Swift has transcended nationality. She's she is a message.
GDP is higher than France.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I think, yeah, it's huge, But I still think America
has that soft power. You know, people not like Traump
or something. They're fascinated with them. But I think a
lot of people still want to be Americans and a
lot of people want to go and live there. It's
still and the economy is still booming, you know. I mean,
you know, for the for the person in the street
over there, you know, things looking pretty good.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
It's still the dominant superpower when it comes to the economy.
I mean, China has been the house for a number
of years, but if you look at the US economy
compared to the EU, for example, they've been comparable for
some time US has been steadily increasing, where it's the
EU not so much. So I get what you're saying
in terms of the cultural zeit geost it's not. I
think the.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Culture is ahead of the economy in this instance, and
I think it usually is. I heard an incredibly interesting
thing the other day about how many times we've seen
America destroyed in popular film, you know, and they were,
And the point was made that prior to the sort
of the prior to the turn of the Center, if
you're reading in books, where the cultural sort of heartland
was was London, so London would be destroyed. But this
(05:01):
century it's been America. But I but I think that
I think that time is coming to an.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I'm looking forward to the next movies where Auckland is
being destroyed because it's the.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
So if it's not America, who.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Is it, Like I say, I think it is China.
I think it is Korea. I think it is Japan.
And I just think that the next gin America's this
is a this is a fish flailing around in the
bottom of a boat.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Do you think that? I mean, given to take it political,
as I always tend to do here, they're the Americans.
You know, it's it's Republican the entire way through. They've
got the presidency, they've got the Senate, and they've got
the House. Do you think that, you know, at least
on a basic law making level, it's going to be
a little bit less turbulent because they can actually get
things done as opposed to being stopped every single step
of the way.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Mark, I mean, I still think there's like over well
close to half the electorate don't like him. Right, yeah,
he got it, he got a majority, and the Republicans
have a majority, But there's still a hardcore amount of
people who don't like Trump. And I remember speaking to
a woman years ago when I was living in Germany
and they had a very right wing leader. And there's
(06:04):
one thing that when you have a leader that you
don't like, you get really involved in politics. You get
up every day because what they're doing pisses you off.
And this I think, I think America will be chaotic again.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
I say America chaotic again.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Well, I remember a Canadian press professor saying living in
Toronto during the Trump years was like living above the
meth lab.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
And I see Canada the fifty third state you made.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah, well, yeah, well with Greenland and Panama Canal. But yeah,
I think I think it's going to be chaos again.
And I think, but we're kind of used to it now.
I think a lot of the things he says don't
really add up to much.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
But then again, nothing that Joe Biden said, I mean
towards the end there. You saw that first debate that
he had with Kamala Harris, and it was just at
first I watched it and I was like, oh, okay,
Joel's having a bad day. And then thirty five minutes
in you were like, Joe is toast. What do you think, Joe? Oh,
not you, Joe, You're fine.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Other Joe, Well, I mean I think if you were, Yeah,
if we were going to be compared to someone, i'd
hope my cognitive function was a bit more functioning. But yeah, look,
I think that was, like I say, it feels like
I'm watching a sad film, you know what I mean.
I think seeing Joe Biden clearly not capable at that
(07:18):
at that level, and that's not surprising, you know, that's
absolutely inevitable and to be expected cognitive decline. But I
found it very sad. But then I don't know what
you expected. I don't understand how these are the only
people who are in the leadership race.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Average age of the media or sorry, and women in
the Senate is up around seventy as well. It's kind
of a bizarre thing where they attract. Yeah, older people
seem to get into power over it.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I feel like that a lot of people have just
kind of only cottoned on to the Joe Biden is
a little bit dottery now. But I remember when I
went over to the US with just into our durn
back in twenty one, not twenty two, sorry, twenty two,
and we went into the White House and so we
all lined up and we were all there was the
New Zealand Press on one side, the US Press on
the other, and then it was, honestly, it was like
(08:05):
the trenches. That somebody pressed a button or they waved
a flag, and we all made our way into the
Oval office, and then Biden was there, ar Dern was there,
and we all clambered over each other just to get
on Mike's close enough to hear what Ardern was saying.
She was fine, but we couldn't hear a word Joe
Biden was saying he was And then he'd wake him
up in the United States is committed to and then
(08:26):
it was done. And so I feel like this has
been the case for some time.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I would overall that I wouldn't write America off just yet.
And there's still incredible things come out of America. They
have incredible, huge universities, amazing cities. You have New York, Chicago,
poor old Los Angeles, you know some of these places.
I mean, there is incredible stuff happening there. There's also
some dangerous things happening. There's a real danger of a
(08:52):
plutocracy starting to emerge, you know, the richest men in
the world getting all this extra power. But I wouldn't
write America off. It's able to turn on a dime
and recreate itself very quickly. This is four years. Once
this is over, he's gone. He can't run again. So
you know, someone could come out and someone younger and
fresher with new ideas, and America is good at doing
(09:15):
those kind of things.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, speaking of new ideas, they're banning TikTok Joe, are
you you were tektoker?
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Am I a TikTok?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
No?
Speaker 4 (09:22):
I don't tick the tok.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I've actually thought that I think the kids called rock
the Talk.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
I don't rock the top. I don't. What I actually
thought was almost funny again in a sort of blackly
comic way. Was that rush too?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Is it red note the Yes?
Speaker 4 (09:37):
And you know this sudden flight like there's you know,
one hundred hundreds percent increase of people on duelingo learning Mandarin.
You know, this has done more for America Chinese connection
than anything I've ever seen a politician.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Dude.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, And there's a sense of irony, isn't there because
the Supreme Court and that all of the lawmakers are
saying that, you know, there's concerns about national security and
the links to the Chinese government with bike dance who
owns tektok and now people are just going to this other.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Actually, I think he triesn't concern the actual users because
what was it. I think it was the most downloaded
app on the App Store. I think more than nearly
a million new users from America. And like I say,
these these huge number of memes and you know, viral
gifts and things of kiwis Americans and of Chinese people
(10:24):
connecting to each other and talking to each other, and
you know, talking about oh is America just like friend.
So I'm like, this appears to be uniting the world
in a way that social media that's really done.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, Mark, there could be an eleventh hour deal. You
think this is likely at all? I have heard some
rumors that Elon Must may be thinking of buying it do.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, it'll be interesting if if Elon Must tells Trump
stop it, maybe he will. I don't know, it depends
who really is the president. I think these things. I
think it's interesting, Joe. You know, like when when everybody
got grumpy with Twitter, when when Elon Must bought it
and Instagram started up threads and that was going to
replace that. It never really did.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Threads died, died nobody.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
And Spotify when Joe Rogan insulted or Neil Young left,
a lot of people said, oh, we're not going in Spotify.
Well that lasted for about five minutes. You know. I
think people get ingrained in those habits, and it's very
hard to recreate something else.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
I think it's hard to do it deliberately, but I
think it absolutely happens. I mean, you know, how long
have people been on TikTok. My feeling is it's only
less than ten years.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, I've been on for about five years, and I
tell you it dominates a lot.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
You can give it up anytime you.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Want, No, absolutely not. I've tried. I tried for a
month and then I came crawling back.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
But I feel like this is an example of like
my end of the world catastrophizing. It's you know this,
you know, we're worried about the danger of the you know,
Chinese accessing this data, and then you've got me a
liberal billionaires queuing up to buy it. I mean, like,
I think we're worried about the wrong thing, Like the
call is coming from inside the house people look.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I think. But also I think we know whenever we
saw up to any of these apps, you've got to
be you know, your head in the sand if you
don't think your data is being stripped. Yeah, every time.
That's that's the that's the deal you make.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
I'm more concerned about these non elected tech bros who
do not really seem to me to have a high
level of EQ trying to control the platforms which shape
the public discord.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I've always I've always thought that about America, how they
can just appoint their cabinet and so you have these
very very high powered people that as you say, non elected.
It's like it's a cabinet of as well.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
But when it works well, it works really well. I mean,
you can hire a no that brides winning economists to
be your this.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Spot works pretty well when it's working, I suppose, no.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
But with the cabinet, I mean, in some ways, I
think it's better than picking someone who's been a grosser
in Kaipitra to be the Minister for agriculture or something
like that. You know what I mean. I think in
some ways, if you if you use that well, you
can pick the best and brightest and create a really
good cabinet. Or you can pick these guys. You can
pick a vaccine denier to be your secretary of health.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Yeah, and Mel Gibson's in there, And.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
When did that of the cabinet?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
He's not in the cabinet, but I think he's.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I miss I've missed some news.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
He's appointed Rocky John Voight and Mel and Mel to
be ambassadors to Hollywood to try and repair relationships around
the world.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
If I if I were a lawmaker in the US,
I'd steer clear of Hollywood. I think the age of
celebrity endorsements. I mean, look at everybody who came lining
up for Kamala Harris. You know, it was just like
there was Usher was up on stage being like, vote
for Karmala Harris, and everybody, every celebrity you could shake
a stick at, was lining up to say vote for
Krmala Harris. And it's just ridiculous because people look at
(13:58):
celebrities and they say, you've got millions of dollars, you're
one of these elites. Why would I trust what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Well, this is the whole thing with Trump. He is
an outsider and seen as an outsider, people feel disenfranchised
by the democratic process, and it's highly surprising. It's the
best democracy money can buy and nothing, nothing changes for them.
The same people come in, go out. Here's a guy
disruptor and it's working for him. And I think there's
(14:24):
a real lesson for that. You know that if you
don't take people with you when you make policy, if
you don't listen to what they're really worried about, this
is what's going to happen. We're going to end up
with people like that.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
But he did get reelected, Joe, so is that a
nod that he did take people with him last time.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Well, I think he absolutely did get re elected. He
won that election. I had a lot of friends of
will you know, oh boohoo, and I thought, well, that
was an election, that was a free and fair election.
But at the same time, I think there is a
paucity of options, you know, I think Trump, I think
the situation is the same in New Zealand. I think
it's the same in Australia. I think people just feel
disenfranchised from all of it.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yeah, it's interesting. I felt that it's terrible, isn't it, Cynicle.
And maybe we've just we have five hard years of
COVID and bad weather and bad economy. But it feels
like politics now does not solve the big issues. Just
it's a popularity contest, so they just do things to
get themselves re elected. You know, there's no We've got
big problems. We've got the climate, we've got inequality, we've
(15:22):
got the economy, we've got an unfair tax system, all
these sorts of things nobody wants to tackle that it's
too hard.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Well, speaking of all those things that you mentioned, we
do have some New Zealand base news this week are
great segue is and they you would be thinking, you
thought that I would have done this for years. So
the Nats. It's not looking good for the Nats. And
the latest poll they are down to twenty nine point six.
They dropped four point six percentage points, which is quite
remarkable given nothing has happened since the last poll. Because
(15:50):
it's a a summer. They've been leap rugged by the
Labor Party, who are up to about thirty one percent mark.
You're you're nodding, You look like you're itching to have
something to say.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Also, we should be interviewing you, Jason. He actually I was.
I looked at those numbers. So the Nats are down
four and see and Labor are up for so are
those people going over to Labor?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Well, I mean that looking at the numbers, it's it
looks like a swap. I mean, it does make sense.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Because it's interesting. So the center, yes, it is very
fluid at the moment.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
That's what it would appear. So in this poll, I mean,
I would have the caveat as I always do. One
pole does not an election make, but it is still
I mean, Joe, what was your reaction when you saw
the NATS the governing head of the governing party for
that far.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Well, I don't think this is anything Labor has done.
But at the same time, I don't think it's anything
National has done, because I think a lot of people
feel they haven't done very much. They came in on
a big talking point. You know, we're going to make
a difference. We're going to look at these bread and
butter issues. I don't know who can afford butter anymore,
but I am telling you they just I feel like
(16:52):
that that the polling question within that poll was are
we heading in the right direction? I think that's a big,
you know, a big turn, and I think that you know,
it's there's lots of things that would contribute to that,
but I think the point was actually it was you
last night on talkback. You know, you think I was
at the treaty Principal's bill, but then the pole in December.
This this is a different result from that. You changed
(17:14):
the last one.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
We had a couple of weeks after the HIKOI didn't
really move the NATS at all.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
So I think, really, this is the economy and our
economic direction and the fact that I think people are
doing it hard, they feel and this is feather to
your point, Mark, they feel like no one is helping them.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
No, it's interesting that I'm talking about the Treaty Principal's
Bill acted down by two points and the Greens up,
who've had a rough year.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, so where they've got this core base of support
that just remains steady, I.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Would say, and again, you know, they're probably more politically
aligned to me, the Greens. But I would say then
I don't know how you mean vote, but anyway, I
would say, I think Chloe Swarbrick has a real opportunity
here because she has the res you know, she's just
got X factor. And I think there's such an opportunity
for a smaller party, whether or not it's a smaller
party that exists now or it's something new. But I
(18:02):
feel like just people are so disenfranchised with the mainstream
political parties.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And we have back up that point. New Zealand First
are actually probably one of the big winners. Later are
the big winners. But they were up, I mean they
were up quite significantly in New Zealand First and Winston
they were up to eight eight. Yeah, they got they
got quite a significant bump. So this time lasts that
this part of the sacle. When New Zealand first were
(18:29):
in government, they were polling closer to two maybe three
percent on a good day. Now they're up to eight.
They're well beyond that five percent threshold. So, I mean,
is the question here as to your point of people
getting disenfranchised by the big parties and starting to splinter
off into some of the small ones, Mark, what's your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Well, that happens, doesn't it. I mean, but as this,
if these numbers settle in a bit, then I think
those smaller parties in the government are going to get
a little bit nervous and I think it could lead
to a bit of tension. And also it puts Winston
once again in the position of king maker coming up
to the next time round. You know, he can quite
easily make the case if he's sitting in the middle
(19:06):
on numbers like this next time and it comes down
to going with labor, he can make the point, you know,
is it me? Do you want to take me or
to party Marti? And you know he would do that.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah, And that's the point that they'll make. We'll take
a quick break and when I got back, I'll tell
you a little bit about what Winston Peters said to
me in my end of year interview with him News
Talks d B. It's just gone twenty five past.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Three, get down.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Speaking of Winston. Peter's excellent song choice coming into the break. Then,
So my Winston story. So every year before the holidays,
all the political editors get to interview every one of
the political leaders of their parties. And I sat down
with Winston, and I hope he's listening, because I'll give
away my technique to interviewing Winston. The first question has
to be a butter up, mister Peters, how are you
(20:01):
so good at everything that you do? How do you
do the things that nobl able to do? And then
you can get into the more nitty gritty evers. But
he was telling me right towards the end, because I
had to leave these questions to the end. You're like, oh,
you know, some people might think that you're a little
too senior to be a leader of a political party.
What do you make of that? And he said, essentially, well,
I still run rings around those people, and I'll continue
(20:22):
to do it. But he says he's running obviously the
next election, and if he wins, he's staying until the
next election as well, So he's going to be here
for a while. And I think that given the fact,
I here's my opinion on Winston. I think he is,
if not the best, one of the best foreign affairs
ministers that we've had.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yeah, I'd rather have him in the government than out
of a government because he doesn't make as much mischief
when he's in the government and he's well respected overseas.
I did the same thing in the twenty seventeen election.
I spent three days on the campaign trail with him
and I said, aren't you a bit old mate, you know?
And he just launched into me, you know. And then
we went to the conference and he called me out
(21:02):
in the middle of the conference, just, you know, completely wasted.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
He's done that to me as well. I was sitting
in the front row and he starts talking about mainstream
media and he tells around, isn't that right, mister Walls, Yes,
And then all the supporters glare at me. I'm like, no, I'm.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
The world a much better place.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah, what do you think, Joe Winston, he's going to
be around for the long haul?
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Well, you know, God willing. But at the same time,
I think New Zealand. First, they kind of have a
ceiling on the support they're going to get. I think there,
I think Winston is the party and so no Winston
eight percent. Well, that's what That's why I feel like
there is really room in the New Zealand political space
(21:44):
for another party. I think there's room for that Blue
Green Party.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
I think not the Blue Greens, get it out of
here a second conversation. Rather it's going to happen. It
would have happened, and it just happens.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
True. I know so many people who say top they're
coming back, they never do. But there is other countries,
in some growing up countries around the world, like Germany,
there is there is always a party like the Free
Democrats in Germany where they go basically with either side.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
The Garden Party.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I'm starting it the Garden Party.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It would just be a clone of the Greens, right. Yeah,
it's an interesting one. I mean, I think from my
perspective on this pole, it is the economy. It's it's
the cost of living. I mean, if you look at
the numbers, the number of people that think that we're
on the right track versus the wrong traffic Because now
there's more people thinking we're going the wrong way than
the right way, and you cannot win government on that.
(22:37):
So the NATS, to their credit or to their defense, essentially,
the reserve banks cut interest rates a few times. It's
going to take quite a while for that to filter through.
And it's just the beginning of their middle year in Parliament,
so they're not at panic stations yet. And the underlying
premise of this whole pole is that the coalition is
still ahead sixty two seats to fifty eight. So technically
(23:00):
this is how m ANDP is supposed to run. It's
just I think, and this might be a controversial opinion.
We've only had m MP since ninety six it was,
it's still a relatively new form of government for us.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yeah, you have to be a little bit more grown
up when you use MMP. You've got to sit down
and you've got to build coalitions and compromises and things
like that. And we're still at the adversarial stage. I
think as we get better at.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
It, I don't think this is how MMP is supposed
to run, because I think we have a situation where
the tail is very much wagging the dog in the
coalition government. I do not think Luxon is running the room.
I think you know Whenston Peters agree with you, Both
one hundred percent are very canny political operative you know
Seymour two. I think they are both running rings around Luckxon.
(23:45):
So I think National are the party that had the
majority of the vote share, they should have the majority
of the decision making weight, and that is clearly not
what came out of this coalition.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Are you Are you just referencing the Treaty Principal's Bill.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
I think the Treaty Principal's Bill, I think other bills
as well. I just think that this is this is
an example where I don't This is where this is
where I think Nahal is falling behind and who I
think should be nervous about that pole result is Luxeen.
I just don't think he's showing an example of strong leadership.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
What do you think, Mark, Well, he's not resonating it.
You know, with a lot of people across the country.
I think one of the he just he had a
real opportunity to be a leader during Thathkoy. I think
he could have walked out of Parliament and just said look,
I'm here for all of you. This is tough at
the moment, but you know, together we can get through
(24:34):
big moments. Leaders make you know, good speeches bring us together,
things like that, and I feel like we're just getting
further and further apart. He's quite happy to embrace that
Treaty Principles Bill, even though he admitted on Q and
A to Jack Tame that he knew it would divide
New Zealand. And that's that's not what I want to
see in a prome man.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Now important to note though, that they're not supporting him
the second reading. It's head in the water.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
But he could have killed earlier. He could have said
no to it. And if David Seymour said it wasn't
the bottom line, then that he didn't even have to
do it at all.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I think it's fair to say that he underestimated the
pushback that he would get from the New Zealand public
on this one ca you to talk about the Act
Party's defense spending policy. There, they're arguing that Jnald Trump
is another reason New Zealand needs a ramp up it's
defense spending. It's proposing and they've been proposing this for
some time now. New Zealand invests around two percent of
its GDP to the defense budget, which is currently about
(25:27):
zero point nine percent. Now, I've asked Judith Collins about
this Defense minister and the glean in her eye when
I suggest bolstering her budget by half. It reminded me
of the old days when she was the leader that
obviously she's not anymore. I mean, Joe, does New Zealand
need a defense budget this high?
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Well?
Speaker 4 (25:43):
I mean, I think Mark Cameron made the point. You
know that it is a less the world is a
less safe, less predictable plays. I think it is. You know,
it's just a more complicated strategic environment right now. I
think you know that this isn't even about potential conflicts.
I think, you know, looming climate change means we need
a defense force that can respond to domestic emergency situations.
(26:04):
And I think so Gabrielle proved that we don't necessarily
have that right now. I'm not, however, sure. So yes,
I think we do need to invest in our defense force.
But then I don't think that is the solution by itself,
because I think our defense force has some systemic issues.
I think that's not a secret. You know, there's terrible attrition,
there's problems with the housing stock, there's you know what
(26:25):
comes out. I don't know if this is you know,
systemic or just you know, the occasional bad egg. But
you know, there's problems with bullying, there's problems with you know, culture,
there's problems with a safe working environment for.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Women ships famously. I mean Mark Job makes a good
point there because in New Zealand people shouldn't think of
our military the same as they do the United States
or the Israeli Defense Force or or anywhere else in
the world. Primarily our defense forces to do with things
like helping in the Pacific and a great example around
cyclone gabriel Gabrielle. So wouldn't having two percent of GDP
(27:00):
to help with more of those emerging threats be a
good thing?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
I think it's a good thing. I mean the proudest
I've ever been as a New Zealanders actually seeing the
New Zealand Army come in into East Team or when
stuff was kicking off there. I mean, they made me
super proud. They were multicultural, they worked on a very
grassroots level with the locals and they calm things down.
They are amazing And I remember an Australian reporters saying
to me, Oh, thank god, the Kiwi's here finally some
(27:27):
real men, so you know, but they would they had
the wrong gear for the climate, you know, and all
this kind of things. So I think we do. But
if we spend two percent of our GDP on defense,
what money aren't we spending on health?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
The opportunity cost?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yes, and I think we've got some real significant problems
across the board and health and education and infrastructure, all
those sorts of areas. Everybody's got their hands out. But
if we want our play our part internationally and be
a good global citizen, then we have to you know,
our way as well. We've piggybacked off others for a
(28:07):
long time.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, take a quick break. While we're in the break,
I've got some homework for Joe.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Joe.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
New Zealand's GDP is roughly three hundred and eighty billion
dollars a year, so you're going to find out in
the ad break what two percent of two hundred and
eighty billion is. News talk, said B. Will be back after.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
You're feeling down now to swallow make you happy.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Down, News talk, said B. Jason Walls filling in for
tim Bedbridge here with Mark Krissell and Joe McCarroll. Joe,
before the break, I gave you a homework assignment. What
was the GDP again, What the GDP was? I actually
said three hundred and eighty It's actually four hundred and
twenty billion.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Four hundred and twenty billion. Then it is eight point
four billion.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Bang on, bang on, bang on, bang on. I said, like,
I checked it, but it sounds right. Yes, two percent
of New Zealand's GDP.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
It heaps of money.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
It's heaps. It is heated. No, it's not. How much
does he have that's a question for another top I
Ragon all right, Goalrez is back in the news. A
shoplifting complaint against the former Green MP is understood to
relate to an incident where she was allegedly seen placing
items into a tote bag at the Royal Oak Pack
and Save in late twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Now.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
The Herald first reported this on Wednesday and saying that
the police investigation was underway, but a source has told
The Herald when the former MP was at the supermarket,
her manner of shopping, in particular the way that she
was carrying the items, aroused the suspicion of the store security.
So any surprise that Goalrez is back in the news
for stealing mark allegedly.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Yeah, all of it's sad, really, I mean, there was
there was a great article by David Fisher in the
Hera this morning about this. You know, she puts some
stuff in the tote bag. She never made it to
the cash registered to pay for it or anything to
check out. So, I mean, I just seems like a
really tragic story that she's once again getting, you know,
(30:03):
a good kicking, and it happened around that seems that
it happened around the time when she was going to
court last time. The police wanted to include it as
part of the charges, but we're told that it probably
wouldn't stand up since she was not going to the checkout.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
So, yeah, Joe, do you think this is a good
kicking or is it just accountability for somebody that was
in a position of power for so long.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
Look, I actually don't think this is a matter for
public interest. I don't think it should be reported on.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I think I think it should be reported I don't
think she's a Newsmaker's somebody that's still in the public eye.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
She's in the public eye, but I think you could
make the case that this is not to shift. I
think you would say, and again I'm alleging. I don't
know this woman, I don't know the story, but I
think you would say this was looks from the outside
like a mental health issue. I think this I mean
the story as you say, Joseph, I mean, you know,
I don't think a lot of people would have gone, well,
(30:56):
I feel like there's some stuff we're not being told here.
We don't know the whole thing. Because if she put
stuff in a topepag but hadn't left the store, I
don't think that's going to stand up as shoplifting, even
if that was her intention. I don't think that stands
up at shoplifting. You have to have left the premises.
I think this is a vulnerable person. I don't see
the public interest. I think this feels this feels just
(31:18):
sort of tabloid gossip.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Would you be saying the same thing if it was
a national MP that had been convicted of stealing and
then they're gone and stole something from pack or tried
to steal something from Paka so.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
As she was when she was an MP and she
was being paid by the public person, I think at
that point she is there is public interest. But now
I think she is an individual. I would say, I
don't see why this is more worthy of reporting on
than another individual who is court shoplifting.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Mark, you're an next journalist a situation she's a person
of public interest.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
No, I think there's still there is still interest she
you know, she sort of transcended politics in a way
I can think of a number of because she had
like a famous boyfriend, she was she was very public
in her opinions and things like that. She had a
very high profile. So I think I don't think that
goes away Sadly, that goes with the territory. You know.
(32:08):
I think some of the early reporting didn't tell the
whole picture, so it just felt like she's out shoplifting again.
When you look at the facts, actually it looks like
this wasn't a shoplifting incident.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
But it was going to be like if she well,
we can't say that, can We've been saying pretty definitively
she put it in her tote bag and she was
maybe can be laying out of the store.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Well while she though we don't know that, I mean,
will we know she puts some stuff into her trolley
and some into a tote bag. I mean, it doesn't
look good. But if if the prosecutors don't believe that
they can make a case in course, then I don't
think we can make a case on the radio. I think,
you know, probably is not shoplifting. But yeah, I think
she's dealing with a whole lot of stuff and to
(32:50):
be in judging this up again is tough. But I mean, sadly,
that's something that goes with the territory of having a
public profile, Joe.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Is there an argument to be said here that maybe
this is all a bit of a misunderstanding. She was
shopping and instead of putting something in a trolley, she
put it in a tote bag, and she would have
brought it out at the end to pay for it.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Look, I've seen people do that at the supermarket, just
put stuff into like you know, they're recyclable shopping bags.
I assume they're going to pay for it. But I mean, again,
I just think there's there's so much in that story.
I think we have not We just don't know, you know.
I think if the police are showing any kind of interest,
there's more to it than we're being told. Because there's
no way if you put stuff in a tote bag
(33:28):
and then didn't leave the store, I think the police
would say there's nothing they can do that. There's nothing
you could be charged with. You could wander around the
supermarket with a tope bag full of stuff, I think, Although.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
It reminds me of in New Zealand and other countries,
it's not illegal to check it for doors unlocked.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Really Yeah, in someone's house.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yeah, you walk up to someone's house, just twist the
knob and just just checking. The story changes there a
little bit. I'll tell you what. I will not be
taking a top bag to a supermarket anytime soon. I'll
tell you what I think that's changed that when they're
moving on a little bit. Luke Comb's but a country
for you, you guys fans.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Huge fan. Well, I'm not so much of Luke colmbs fan,
but I've liked country music for years. I love it.
I've been to Nashville, one of the coolest places I've
ever been. With this story a few years ago on
a New Zealand country singer there trying to make it.
But I love country music. I just think it's it
hits emotions, it's plent of and I'm not surprised. I'm
(34:25):
surprised there isn't any like a full time country music
station in New Zealand. Oh yeah, yeah, they should be.
I think it'd be a mess of it.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
I mean, if Luke Colmbs can sell out Eaten Park
two nights in a role, there's obviously the demand, right,
What do you think.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Joe, Well, what I would say is I came here
just sort of through the area that concert's going to
be held, and I did not know so many people
had cowboy boots. I mean, if you told me that
Luke Colmes was you know, a conspiracy orchestrated by Ram Williams,
I would believe you. In this country, did they have
(34:59):
the cowboy boots already? Did you already have the plaid
shit and the daisy jakes? Because they there are so many.
It's like when you go to the film festival and
you're like, are there any berets left?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
There must be one store that does absolutely smashes it
during film the film time.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Last time I was in America, I bought a cowboy
hat in Austin and Texas. Oh my god, when I
wear it, it just feels so good.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
How much does a cowboy hat.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
See oh wow, really experence. It was an incredible store.
It was full of boots and cowboy clothes and hats.
This one, you know, I think it was about eighty
US dollars, but I could have bought one for six
seven hundred dollars. And there were Americans walking in and
just try, you know, buying hats and wearing them everywhere.
I think, you know, there's been yellow Stone, There's been
(35:48):
a whole lot of stuff recently. Taylor Swift was originally
a country singer, and I think you know, and also
you're getting black singers, a lot more black singers inside
country music now, and there's rappers coming over and things
like that. So I think, you know, it's it's music
that really hits people on an emotional course.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
They didn't actually read a study years ago that country
music is something that appeals to you on an atavistic level,
like it's beyond your intellectual level. It's and it's country
music and it's African drumming. You respond to them.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Just those are two very different things. Why do you
think it's because I.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
Think they're both things you just can hardly resist, you know,
the music you're just you're carried away. Your toe is
tapping to country music, and that is true.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
It is.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
And I think drumming too. You just give you know
you can hear the beat. I think you respond to
it at a very sort of primal level.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
And the only thing that ever happens is your girls
going to leave you, and your dog's going to die, and.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
You're going to drink a lot of moonshine and you're
going to waste all your money on boots. Apart from
Luke Holmes, Have you got a favorite country singer, country artist?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I got it. I've got a lot. I mean, I
like that. I like the old old country movement a
few years ago was people like you know Ryan Adams
and you know Whiskey Town, Wilco. There are a lot
of really great ones, but you know, even some of
the classics, you go back to this. Willie Nelson has
some amazing stuff. And I'll think of another name, but yeah,
(37:12):
I'll look at my Spotify.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Lest who's who's the one working nine to five and
she does it with her nails. Her name is Dolly Parton.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Of course she was an icon. If I could recommend
a podcast as Dolly Partners America is the most incredible listener,
and it just talks about how she straddles all these worlds.
She brings red Nicks and gay people together. They're all
in the same room, they're all loving the same She could.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Rescue America, make America great again with Dolly Parton.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
If America Dolly Again.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
If I could recommend a podcast, it would be the
Weekend Collective that you can find on the news dogs.
They'd be website. We'll take a break and be back
after this. Jason Walls and you in with you this
weekend for the Weekend Collective. Filling in for Tim Beverage. Rather,
we got Mark Chrysell and Joe McCarroll. I hope he's
not listening to me bed is he?
Speaker 3 (37:59):
No? I thought you said tim bedrhythm. Oh.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
I was going to say, well, if you Tim, wherever
you are, I hope you are. I hope you're doing
well in are not bedridden. Just before we cap off
the panel, I'm keen to talk about sale GP this weekend.
Joe you a fan? Did you get into it?
Speaker 4 (38:15):
I must say I wouldn't. I've got lots of friends
who are down at the Harbor today and they're hanging
around in the apartments, looking over the balconies and down
on the grandstand. But it's one of those things I
think is much more interesting to watch on tep TV.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
I tell you the way that you've described it. If
I had an apartment overlooking the water, and I had
a couple of cheeky bubbles and it was playing on
TV at the same time, that's an afternoon A sale
G and t A.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
I keep calling it at home sale GPT, but I
think that's when the AI take over.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
I kind of like the futuristic kind of vibe of it.
You know, it feels like something out of RoboCop, these
massive things just flying past.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
I respect the technology, you know. I think it's just
it's hard to follow in real life unless you, I
suppose you're a real zealous follower of sailing.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
No I like, but I like the idea of an event,
any event where people come together, they get out, they
get out of their houses, like Grab the Experience or
something like that. Whether it brings money into the city
or not, and who knows, These numbers are always up
for debate. I think it's good that people get involved
with I.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
Agree, and I do really like it, and I thought
that Today I was like Auckland, it's really buzzing. Today's
actually stunning day. People out in the beautiful white Luke
comes again. Everyone's got the cowboy boats on.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
What about the dolphins? Have they cleared? There's no dolphins.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Can't the dolphins This might be a controversial opinion, but
can't the dolphins just go somewhere else for the afternoon?
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Where the boats are?
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I don't know. Maybe I don't know enough about them.
I'm with you. I think that like watching it would
be tough because you don't get the markers that you
do on TV, and you've got to be a super
fan to know how it's all working. But by gosh,
if I don't love to see them up on the foils.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
I can't. I can't imagine people who go to form
You On One races as well, because all I can
imagine it would just be something Yeah, so you wouldn't
see anything.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
No, But I'll tell you what, I really want to
go to Melbourne for the Formula one because it's not
just the races. It's a carnival atmosphere really, Like there
is the all the tents, You've got the red Bull
tant and then you've got the Mercedes Tan. I mean,
this is the big munt. You can't like me a
Joe average sort of talk, part time talkback holes, couldn't
walk in it as.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
Using of the name Joe during this show to Jason.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Well, I really appreciate you both coming in. Thank you
so much. This is the Weekend Collective. It's being Mark
Kreisel and Joe McCarroll. Thank you so much for coming
in us talks. That'd be.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Them. For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to
News Talks It Be weekends from three pm, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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