October 15, 2025 • 39 mins
Rod Duke has been selling things since he was 16. First shoes, then appliances, and eventually homewares and sportswear.
Born in Adelaide, Duke came to New Zealand in 1988 to spruce up a flailing Briscoes for sale. Two years later he scored the best Briscoes deal ever, he bought the whole company himself for $2.
He ended up with 12 shabby stores, where dusty wine glasses were sitting on the shelf for $2.71 each.
But it didn’t take long for Duke to turn the business around.
Today, there are almost 100 Briscoes and Rebel Sports stores around the country, and Briscoes is a listed company that’s been defying the odds of the economic downturn.
The Briscoes boss unpacks it all with Kerre Woodham on the latest episode of Bosses Unfiltered.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The big wins and the big losses, the hurdles, the pivots,
and the emotions, raw and honest New Zealand's great business
minds like you've never heard them before. This is Bosses
Unfiltered with Kerry Woodham used talks be Rod.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Duke has been selling things since he was sixteen. First shoes,
then appliances and eventually home weares and sportswear. Born in Adelaide,
Duke came to New Zealand in nineteen eighty eight to
spruce up a flailing Briscoes for sale, but two years
later he scored the best Briscos deal ever. He bought
the company himself for two bucks. He ended up with
(00:40):
twelve shabby stores, but it didn't take long for Duke
to turn the business around. Today there are almost one
hundred Briscoes and Rebels sports stores around the country, and
Brisco's is a listed company that's been defying the odds
of the economic downturn. Great to see you, Rot. You
started work at six Dean. Were you just sick of
(01:01):
sitting at a desk in school?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yeah? I think I'd had enough school. You know. My
greatest accompaniments at at school were cricket Nauzi rules football.
So I was not a particularly good student. I was
just looking forward to getting into the workforce and and
getting into a into a shop.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Even then, you knew that selling was your thing.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, I knew shops were the go for me. Wow,
I don't know. I've always had this fascination about buying
something and selling something and making a couple of bucks
on the way through. So I've always had I always
had that, I think in me, I've always wanted to
do that.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
And what about the idea of that customer service? Did
that appeal or was it just the buying something that
people wanted and selling it Because retail is a lot
about people too.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I told it it's all about people. Yeah, and it's
all about at both ends of the of the transaction,
you know, buying at the right price and then being
able to sell it firstly but then being able to
sell it to the right price. No, my first thoughts
were shop seems to be the way I want to go,
and it involves one of the steps is buying something
(02:14):
and selling something. Of course, you've got to you've got
to enjoy the product category that you're in. You've got
to enjoy selling to or influencing people to buy your
product or buy your service. So it was all those things.
But a sixteen year old kid probably at that point
just thinks about buying a widget and selling a widget,
(02:37):
you know.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
And at what point did you think, well, this is fun,
but I could do better myself. I've got ideas I
could bring into a store myself, or I could make
more money if I was doing it for myself.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Probably a little way on through the process, when you're sixteen,
you're first hoping that someone will give you a job
close to home, so the bus trip doesn't take very
long to get to work and get home from work.
So I was pretty fortunate to get one fairly early
(03:12):
in the piece in Rundle Street, which is the main
shopping street in Adelaide and South Australia. It happened to
be in a shoe shop, but the shoe shop was
probably the third callt I make, so it didn't didn't
matter to me whether it was footwear or television sets
or refrigerators. It just happened to be footwear for me.
(03:35):
And in those early periods, for me, it was more
about trying to do the best job I could with
the job that I had at the time. You know,
there was not a lot of thoughts about, you know,
could I buy a business, could I run the shop better,
Could I change the rangers, Could I do a bunch
(03:58):
of other things. In the early part, it was just
more about being the top sales person, the most valuable
person to the company on the shop floor. So that
that was my I have a tendency to set a
whole lot of targets myself, but achievable targets and reachable targets,
and that, from my memory, was my first one.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
So they weren't sales targets that were set by the store.
You were a self motivator.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, it was. It was just all about having the
most number of customers, the most number of sales, and
the highest sales.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
And you did that with your shoes, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
And then I became a store manager, so I wanted
to do it with my shop, you know. Then I became,
you know, looking after a number of shops, so my
group of shops had to be the top performers. And
then as you go through your career, you know, for me,
it was all about setting targets and making my employer
(05:00):
think of me as perhaps the most valuable person.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Well, you were clearly valuable because when you came to
New Zealand to spruce up Briscoes for a sale, it
wasn't doing well. The owners wanted it gone. You used
your bonus famously to buy it. Yeah, it must been
quite a good bonus.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Well, it was because they were hemorrhaging at the time,
and so they owed me a bonus for my first
year's work, and my brief was to sell it. They
weren't particularly interested in getting a lot of money for it,
because loss making businesses don't generate a lot of money
(05:43):
when you sell, so they were glad to be rid
of it. So I guess the gesture of not collecting
my bonus but collecting twelve sets of keys was it
was probably worth it at the time.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
So this was nineteen eighty eighth r before the economic
reforms in New Zealand. It was two worlds pre nineteen
eighty nine, post nineteen eighty nine New Zealand it was
vastly different. Yeah, it was a time of real change
in this country.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah. So I came in September eighty eight and had
already done the transaction by March eighty nine. Six months
on to take effect from the end of that year.
And so I didn't I didn't actually see a lot
of economic change because I had no experience of pre
(06:35):
September Rady eight.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Well, we didn't have any Sunday trading.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
No, you didn't, and you're you're quite right change. Thank goodness,
you didn't. How did you do that?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
How did you come an? Ah?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Look, you look for ways to disrupt the market. You
look for ways to get your company noticed. When we
Rebel Sport, the primary thing for us then was to
get top of mine awareness high. Okay, and you do
that by lots of advertising and cheap prices and lots
(07:10):
of stores. You can do that. But the but the
cherry on top is really the really unusual thing that
gets you front page headlines in every paper in the
country for two or three weeks. That's that's the big
that's the big kahuna. That's that's that's what really gets
(07:31):
you noticed. And so Sunday trading did that for us.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Right, So was it sort of thin lips and purse
lips and how outrageous that this as it up starts
coming here and is opening up on the Lord's Day? No?
Was it that kind of headline or no.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Well, certainly internally with the staff, it was you're going
to do what? Wow? Okay, is that not illegal? So
what are the fines? Have you thought of everything? I think, Look,
we've thought of everything. We've got our ducks in a row.
We believe the New Zealand public want it. There will
(08:10):
be no victims because at the end of the day,
you staff, you're going to volunteer. I'm not going to
make your work Sunday. You're going to volunteer, but put
your put a smile on your face because you're going
to get your picture in the front page of your
newspaper tomorrow. And so all the staff volunteered. We kept
(08:35):
it relatively quiet because you're always in fear of court
orders to remain closed, so we had to keep tight lipped.
We got the VID tapes for the TV ads into
the television stations very late. We got the all the
(09:01):
pre recorded radio media to the radio stations very late,
and it became turned out to be the secret was
kept and Saturday night television where just blasted, were open Sunday,
and by seven thirty Sunday morning there were two or
(09:23):
three hundred people waiting outside stores waiting to get in.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
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Speaker 2 (09:45):
So, what made you think that the product that was
inside those stores was going to be worth buying? Given
that you'd inherited twelve stores that were failing.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
We had already built up quite a reputation for sales
or selling events that appealed to the public. I came
in September ninety eighty eight, and we had a very
very poor track record in terms of sales and in
terms of profit. People didn't know about us. We set
(10:19):
about a lot of television and media campaigns that raised
our top of mind awareness rapidly. This is just Prisco's
raised it rapidly. So at that stage that we did
the Sunday we're not unknown, okay.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And you were confident in your product.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah, the product was always going to sell because the
deal that we had on the table for people was
attractive but perhaps even more importantly, I think for the
general public who went down there and stood in line
to get in the stores, it was more about this
is illegal. I quite like this. It's just back in
(10:58):
the face of the government. You should have something about it.
There are no victims and I'm going to go there. Look,
we had we had church ministers lined up to buy,
not to not to Well this was their customers who
were supposed to be elsewhere on Sunday, but they were
their shopping So it was all of it. It's all
(11:20):
a bit surreal, really, particularly those early ones. So we
did that for about six weeks, and rather than get
fined or slapped on the rest or anything like that,
the government the day thought it would be better if
they just made it legal, so they quickly passed legislation
that made it legal. So from there, you know, I
(11:40):
had a lot of other retails open Sunday, so it
wasn't quite as lucrative.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
But you know, you've seen so many different phases of
the economy, so many different phases of life with Bruskos,
and yet it endures, not just endures, it's doing incredibly
well when so many are failing.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah, I think I think it's all about the market
position that we've adopted. Let me take back all the
way back to back tonight September ninety eighty eight. I
was at the company I and the country about a
week and at that still, at that stage, we had
(12:27):
thirteen thirteen shops, two buyers and a ops manager, and
I got hold of them. So listen, I want to
make Saturday morning, get all the store managers up to Auckland,
put them in the cheapest hotel you can find, make
them walk to work if it's to the office, if
it's not too far away, and I want to have
(12:49):
a big meeting. I want to figure out where we
go from here. Okay, So bought them all, then set
them down and then set them home late Saturday afternoon
early Saturday evening. And the purpose of that exercise was
to figure out where we would sit in the New
Zealand landscape. Retail landscape, okay at that stage, probably not
(13:10):
that much changed today. It went all the way from
two dollar shops all the way through to flash boutiques
and flash department stores. Smith and Kobe was probably one
of that end, and Kirk's it at the same end,
(13:31):
and two dollars shops and two dollars shops look alike,
some big ones and some small ones that used to
sell very very cheap and pretty horrible merchandise. But you
know it was a lot of people want to buy that.
So where do we want to fit in between those? Well,
we established pretty quickly that there was a there was
(13:53):
a slot that was vacant, and the slot that was
vacant was real good quality merchandise but a real good price.
Now you can buy a real good merchandise in New Zealand,
even back in nineteen eighty eight, but you had to
go to the flash stores and pay big bucks, real
big money. So we thought, if we can get hold
(14:13):
of these famous brand names in the homewaes business and
we can put them in cheaper shops, not shopping centers,
We've got about a lot of rent. I wonder how
the New Zealand public would go with that. So we
thought that's worth an experiment. I think that might work
because everyone wants to buy good stuff. You just can't
(14:36):
afford it all the time. Some people can't forard it
any of the time. But so we thought we'll put
this in there. So we did, and it really resonated
very very very very quickly, and we've been true to
that all thirty seven years. So we're still doing the
same thing. So if you look at our rangers, we've
(14:57):
got famous brand name, high qual merchandise, but we try
and get it as cheap as we can so we
can sell it at the very very very best price
that we can. So that's where we sit, and that's
where we sat then and that's where we still sit
in the New Zealand retail landscape.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I suppose you see that with the sneak promotion, you know,
with the high quality cook where that people go completely
nuts over with the stickers at New World. You know,
it's high quality stuff that they might not otherwise get
a chance to buy.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
So did it all come down to the relationship you
had with you A supplies as well? Did you have
to build good, strong relationships with them?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah? Yeah, Well, fortunately I knew a lot of the
supplies from Australia, Okay, So I worked in the retip.
I've worked to the retype as all my life in Australia.
I work for the biggest department store chain in New
South Wales, which is Grace Brothers. I knew the managing
(16:05):
directors and the sales directors of each of these famous brands.
I had done them a lot of favors. They have
done me some favors, and I knew them personally, I
knew them particularly well. I came to New Zealand and
I called off some favors. Ran so look, I'm here,
(16:27):
I need a favor. I need you to do this,
and what I'll do I'll repay you with us. This
is what I'll be able to do back. That worked wonderfully.
They supported us, and now the vast majority of them
are still very good customers of ours, and we still
(16:52):
remain their biggest account of this country. So we just
looked after one of those you just called a favor
off a friend. That's basically what I do.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
It's by relationships, isn't it It is. Yeah. It's interesting
too because you famously don't have debt, you know. And
I remember at the time that New Zealand was changing
in the eighties, there was a Tom Scott cartoon with
a little boy walking along, grubby little thing saying, my
dad's poor. Heos the bank one thousand dollars, and the
private school boy next to him saying, my dad's Richie
(17:21):
ows the bank a million, you know, and I think
I think some of those old fashioned trading values got
lost along the way, and that's where people can trip
themselves up.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah. Look, I'm not scared of debt, okay, but it
just seems to me. You know, if you can manage
your costs, you know, that is the cost of your infantry,
cost of your labor, and the cost of your occupancy.
If you can control those three, you have money left
(17:55):
over every week, and you just manage your shop refurbishments,
opening the new stores, and your expenditures as per the
money you've got in the bank, you know. And that's
basically what we've done.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
We haven't borrowed money for I don't know, thirty five years.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
The government might like to borrow someone of you at the.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Well, I've been lending it out to the banks, you know,
but even the interest rates are no good now either.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
The other thing is too, I mean, you pay your
suppliers so they are happy to do you a favor.
You know, they don't have to wait for their money.
They know you're good for it.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Reliabilities, you've got to be reliable. They've got to be
able to trust you. You. Look, there was a time
you asked earlier, you know about people doing your favors.
Back in the early days, I didn't have a lot
of money. So one of the favors I am, or
(18:51):
one of the favors they did for me, was that
I would buy things from them and buy a lot,
and I'd be say to them, look, I can't pay
it on time. So that's all right, Well when can
you pay me? I said, Okay, when is the first
day you get into trouble from your finance director about
(19:13):
Brisco's what's the first day? They'd invariably say the one
hundred and twenty first day. Okay, got thirty days from statements,
it really gives you sixty one hundred and twenty one
days if starts to ask questions. So I said, okay,
(19:33):
you sell me that product. It's half a million dollars.
I will give you half a million dollars on the
one hundred and nineteenth day. Okay, then you deliver. Sure enough,
we're able to do it. So there's suddenly a great trust.
He's not getting into trouble from his finance people. Sure,
I'm a bit late, but he's already advise them they'll
(19:55):
be paying it one hundred and nineteen days. So it's
it's trust, it's reliability, keeping your promise, keeping a word.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
The other thing is not getting over excited by success
too early. I think too, because I've met some old
school guys who have done really well with their wives.
You know, it's a partnership, but they didn't do any
major drawings from the company for years, you know, they
put it all back into the business. And they said
they've seen some young ones get tripped up because they
(20:29):
start to live the flash life before they can, before
they're ready for it. They don't understand about the work
that goes in to build the foundation to build the business.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, I've seen that too. Yeah, I've seen it too.
Didn't happen with me, didn't happen with us. I don't know.
But I've never really been a flash Harry, you know,
even when you know, I guess about several years in
so early nineties could have border flash Lamborghini easy. I
(21:05):
just didn't know.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
What do you drive?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
I drive a flash Porsch now by it's a suv,
but it's to carry rugby kids. In some years ago
with my young fellow used to play Rugby and to
those scary golf clubs. So still flash brand name, but
it's a SUV. But no, I know what you mean
because I've seen it myself.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
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Speaker 2 (21:52):
Your dad was a bookie and you you're and your
siblings would count the money. Yep, So you know what
kesh looks like. My dad was a small town manager
and I remember going into the vaults when I was
helping on the school holidays for work, be a part
time job, and there's money, all this money in there.
But it's dirty too, like it's not you have to
work hard and get sweat on your hands to make money.
(22:13):
I wonder if and these days it's all screens and
people don't understand what money looks like and feels like.
Perhaps I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Yeah, Look, I think at the same time, if you're
talking about today, you've got to probably go back to
primary and secondary education. You know, they're teaching some of
these kids and dopey stuff, but they're not talking about budgeting,
about economics, about bank interest rates, about compound interest, every
(22:42):
day living stuff. No one's getting taught about it. And
I just wondered whether it's time to sit down and
go hang on a minute, let's have a look at
this curriculum. Does it need some sort of correcting, you know,
do we need to introduce an amateur accounting something that
teaches people about budgeting, about you know, the expenditure of money,
(23:07):
how to save some tricks about having this save money.
You know, for me, I never had that problem. I
had a dad who didn't grow up. He was still
a kid in the depression. But even after that, you know,
even in the nineteen forties and fifties, he was he
(23:29):
was thrifty. You know, well I don't know about the forties,
but certainly through the fifties and sixties he was he
was thrifty. You know, not mean no, but there's a
do threfty. Yeah, have you.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Had any I suppose first of all, when did you
know you'd succeeded? When did you know it was a winner?
Was it about seven or eight years into.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Riscoes operator, probably about three years in because my dad
at that stage was.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
He thought I was living his life. So he used
to come over, having been an accountant as well, used
to dash into the office alongside me to our accountant
or CFO at that stage and just say to him, look,
how's he doing this. Give me a look of the books.
(24:26):
I don't understand this. I don't understand it. So he
go through it and he figured out, I think pretty
early three or four years in, you know, we were
going to end up making some serious money if we could,
if we could maintain the momentum. So that stage, our
revenues were growing at about forty percent compound per year,
(24:47):
so they were growing rapidly, and we turned a loss
into profit very quickly and then accelerated the profit out.
My mum always said that, you know, I was living
my father's life. So he was the one that actually
alerted me and came back and said, look, this is
you're going to you're going to be very wealthy. But
this looks like this looks like a winner.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
But you didn't care. The money wasn't the thing it
was the sale, was it?
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Yeah it wasn't. But it's never been never about is
that been never about the money. It's all about having,
you know, the best toy being being the best at
your job, getting bigger, expanding, external people writing up how
(25:36):
clever these are, these Brisco people are, and blah blah blah.
It's all about, you know, it's all about being being
the company being recognized, okay, as being successful. And therefore
all the key people, store managers, the people who who
pack up the shelves, the people who delivered the stock,
(25:58):
all having Briscoes on there their shirt labels, you know,
getting some recognition from from everyone that you know, it's
a nice and successful place to work with.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Have there been failures along the way or has it
been pretty linear?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Have we made some mistakes? Oh yeah, yeah, but you
have to you know, I've been a buyer of merchandise,
you know, in my view, that's the best part of it,
you know, being able to buy because if you can
buy the right product, right price, you know, then bring
it into the country and just sell it and see
it sell like crazy. That's that's the big you know,
(26:42):
that's the heroine, that's the that's the real excitement. But sure,
I've brought some pretty ordinary product that has been.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Are there any that stand out where you thought it
doesn't be a winner and then it's just sat there
and set there.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, there've been a couple. You know, I famously bought
bamboo steamers back in the day before people recognize the
value of them. What thousands of them? They took us
a long old to digest a lot.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
While well, I think I've got a couple of them.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Fortunately they wear out and people have to replace them.
So no, we've look, we've made some mistakes, but you know,
you have to make mistakes, you know, to figure out
what not to do next time. But I guess the
trick is you always got to make more successes than
you do mistakes, and you just keep learning, but you
(27:42):
just don't get over excited and make very very, very
very big mistakes.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Is the Brisco's Lady, you're Brisco's buy basically in your mind?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
No, she was, she was the symbol.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
She's just every woman, isn't she.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
I love her.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, she's like the Tina from Tunas of used to you.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, we're still we were lucky. Yeah, and then she
loves a lifespector. A couple of weeks ago and she
just loves it, just loves her job. Yeah, loves loves,
loves the work that she does, but probably loves even
more being in the stores mixing with the customers. When
we open new stores, she's there. And you know, no,
(28:23):
she was. She was recruited through an audition process I
guess about eighty nine or nineteen ninety something. About nineteen
ninety I said, well tell me or no, but I
think it was about nineteen ninety. I got sick of
(28:43):
doing these loud, screaming scream into the bike, looks straight
into the camera ads, you know, get in Sunday thought,
I don't want to be there that I don't want
to do this, so change So what a female presenter
that's our core customer and a face of face of Briscoes.
(29:04):
And she's just been massively successful. You know, everyone's in
love with her, and so we've kept her on as
part of the team.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Loyalty seems to be a big core component of how
you do things to live your life.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
It is I am extremely loyal to people who are
loyal to us. But at the same time, if we
find and we have found suppliers of product who go
off and do silly things, you know, we've I have
(29:45):
deliberately made a point of making a clear example of
them to our own people. And so you know, we
had I remember a big supplier in textile area when
I first joined and we ask for some help early
(30:06):
nineteen eighty eight, went back and said, look, I'm going
to support you, but you need to support me by
helping me with my advertising and promotional campaigns. In terms
of funding. Now we run a buckeload of money with you,
I want you to kick in. Everyone else agreed except
this one. You know him to be our biggest so
(30:28):
we clive off, stop doing business. You're out of here.
But that's set an example for everybody else, not just suppliers,
but also people inside the organization to say we're looking
to support, we want loyalty, we want support. If you're
(30:50):
going to be with us, that's terrific. And we've kept
the vast majority of all those people all the way
through thirty or forty years. But I think sometimes you know,
you just got to make examples just to reinforce you know,
how serious you are about about supporting those who support you.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
So the sales have been a big part of the press.
I think I tend to go in at white on
your weekend and labor weekend to do the big shops
of the sheets and the towels and the new crockery
that still works, doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Look? For us, we invented the one day sale because
we are not in shopping malls. We're often in places
where people have to go and look for us in
we're called it destination stores. You have to set out
to find us, okay, and so we needed to drive
people there. A serious motivator for a lot of people
(31:49):
is brand new merchandise, real good price, you know, for
a limited period, okay, And that formula has worked for us. Now,
if we were sitting in a shopping mall on what
we call the ant track where people walk past every day,
then I wouldn't have to spend that money on advertising
(32:09):
and promotion. But of course those premises cost five times
as much in terms of rent to be in. So
it's a devil if you do and a devil if
you devil if you don't. So if you're in the
shop wall, you don't need to do it, but you've
got to pay that in rent. If you're in a
destination center like a high street or a or a
homemaker center with a couple other like folks or retailers.
(32:34):
Then sure you don't pay we near the rent, but
you've got to drive people to the center, and you
do that by way of promotions and incentives and what
have you.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
You obviously still love working in the business and there's
plenty of life left. But will you sell it when
you've had enough? Ah, you have the majority shareholder? Yeah,
look taking it over?
Speaker 3 (33:01):
No. Look, Look, look, I probably need to contemplate a
sell down of some description of some of the some
of the stock because the end of the day we're
in the inside X top two hundred, the top two
hundred companies in this country. And then you've got to
(33:24):
You've got a shareholder of thir own seventy five percent
of the shares. That's silly, really, you know, I could
have exactly the same control if I want to control
at fifty one percent. So look, I have a lot
of shareholders, and a lot of institutions, and a lot
of people who want who want to share in this business.
(33:46):
And so probably sooner rather than later, I will I
will probably elect to sell down a modest number of shares.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah, when it comes to so you boy taking me over.
You didn't want him and to take over dad's company.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Look for me. I find it very, very hard to
believe that an offspring of mine would be identical. Okay,
in desire trade. Look, I've said it to it, I've
said it to a lot of people. If he wants
(34:26):
to go in the retar business, fantastic. I'd love him
to be in the retap business like and I could help. Okay,
but he's going to get into a twenty first century
retarp business, you know, not one that was started in
seventeen seventy something and eighteen sixty one in this country.
You know, get into a twenty first century business. I'll
(34:47):
fund you into it. I'll help you in, okay, but
you're not coming into mine.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
What is something that you can't say no to? It
a Brisco sale?
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Oh? Probably a big discount off titless golf balls.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Looking back now, what advice would you give to a
young person starting out in business?
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Find an occupation that you love.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
What's a mistake you've made you will never make again?
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Oh? Um, that one.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
What's the most extravagant thing you've spent money on? For
somebody who's pretty sensible? What would be the most extravagant.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
About three years ago, I bought a ordered a brand
new Lamborghini finally a rus which is a suvy way away,
and got it okay, And so I picked it up
(36:04):
and then drove it up down the street and made
a lot of noise. So then I park it somewhere
and people will be looking at me. And then about
six months later, I took it back to the dealership.
See you sell it. I don't want it. So why
It's a beautiful car, so I know, but it's just
too ostentatious for me. So I said, here, you sell it. It'
(36:26):
so I got real it. So I only had it
for about six months.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
What color was it?
Speaker 3 (36:30):
I was a really bright electric blue.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
It was.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
It was gorgeous, but it was just too ostentatious for me.
I don't buy I don't buy boats or planes or
helicopters or I don't. I don't buy any of that stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
You just travel class and business class.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Well I don't. I don't went on my business, but
I do when I when I fly personally.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
So you don't fly business?
Speaker 3 (36:57):
I do, yes, I do, I know, not not business? No, No,
I don't ask the company to pay business class, sorry,
first class, they pay business okay, but that's only because
and all my buyers when they travel overseas always travel
business class because you don't get your rest days at
(37:18):
brisk goes. So you try from here to Frankfurt, okay,
and you're working at seven o'clock. The next morning, you're
working okay. Then you get back on, then you fly,
you get off, then you're back in the office, you know.
So that's my trade off, you know. And most of
the business class these days, you can sleep comfortably on
(37:40):
those very very very long flights. You can sleep very comfortably.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
And what would be your proudest moment.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Commercially, I think personally personally, probably the birth of my son,
you know, one son. Lots of wives, one son, and
it was it was great, fantastic, love.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Him, and then your next life. Will you be a
professional golfer?
Speaker 3 (38:14):
No, it's too hard. It's easy being a retailer. It's
way way, way, way way too hard being a professional golfer,
way too hard. I've seen plenty of very very very
very good golfers and lots of want to be pros,
and they're good. These bells are real good. But it's
(38:34):
too hard, it's too difficult. There's too many there's too
many better golfers out there. I know five guys in
this country who I played golf with who could have
easy been professional golfers. They're that good, but they're not
quite good enough to make a living.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
But there aren't many better retailers than Roger.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Look. I try very very very hard, and I work
at it.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
And that was Rod Duke, managing director of the Brisco Group.
If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more
stories about what it's really like to run a business,
follow Bosses Unfiltered on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.
Next time, we're with Lisa King, founder of af Drinks,
who tells me how she's built a global drinks company
(39:26):
from lockdown and why she loves being underestimated. See you soon,
The big wins and the big losses, the hurdles, the pivots,
and the emotions, raw and honest New Zealand's great business
minds like you've never heard them before. This is Bosses
Unfiltered with Kerry Woodham used talks be Rod.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Duke has been selling things since he was sixteen. First shoes,
then appliances and eventually home weares and sportswear. Born in Adelaide,
Duke came to New Zealand in nineteen eighty eight to
spruce up a flailing Briscoes for sale, but two years
later he scored the best Briscos deal ever. He bought
the company himself for two bucks. He ended up with
(00:40):
twelve shabby stores, but it didn't take long for Duke
to turn the business around. Today there are almost one
hundred Briscoes and Rebels sports stores around the country, and
Brisco's is a listed company that's been defying the odds
of the economic downturn. Great to see you, Rot. You
started work at six Dean. Were you just sick of
(01:01):
sitting at a desk in school?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yeah? I think I'd had enough school. You know. My
greatest accompaniments at at school were cricket Nauzi rules football.
So I was not a particularly good student. I was
just looking forward to getting into the workforce and and
getting into a into a shop.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Even then, you knew that selling was your thing.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, I knew shops were the go for me. Wow,
I don't know. I've always had this fascination about buying
something and selling something and making a couple of bucks
on the way through. So I've always had I always
had that, I think in me, I've always wanted to
do that.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
And what about the idea of that customer service? Did
that appeal or was it just the buying something that
people wanted and selling it Because retail is a lot
about people too.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
I told it it's all about people. Yeah, and it's
all about at both ends of the of the transaction,
you know, buying at the right price and then being
able to sell it firstly but then being able to
sell it to the right price. No, my first thoughts
were shop seems to be the way I want to go,
and it involves one of the steps is buying something
(02:14):
and selling something. Of course, you've got to you've got
to enjoy the product category that you're in. You've got
to enjoy selling to or influencing people to buy your
product or buy your service. So it was all those things.
But a sixteen year old kid probably at that point
just thinks about buying a widget and selling a widget,
(02:37):
you know.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
And at what point did you think, well, this is fun,
but I could do better myself. I've got ideas I
could bring into a store myself, or I could make
more money if I was doing it for myself.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Probably a little way on through the process, when you're sixteen,
you're first hoping that someone will give you a job
close to home, so the bus trip doesn't take very
long to get to work and get home from work.
So I was pretty fortunate to get one fairly early
(03:12):
in the piece in Rundle Street, which is the main
shopping street in Adelaide and South Australia. It happened to
be in a shoe shop, but the shoe shop was
probably the third callt I make, so it didn't didn't
matter to me whether it was footwear or television sets
or refrigerators. It just happened to be footwear for me.
(03:35):
And in those early periods, for me, it was more
about trying to do the best job I could with
the job that I had at the time. You know,
there was not a lot of thoughts about, you know,
could I buy a business, could I run the shop better,
Could I change the rangers, Could I do a bunch
(03:58):
of other things. In the early part, it was just
more about being the top sales person, the most valuable
person to the company on the shop floor. So that
that was my I have a tendency to set a
whole lot of targets myself, but achievable targets and reachable targets,
and that, from my memory, was my first one.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
So they weren't sales targets that were set by the store.
You were a self motivator.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, it was. It was just all about having the
most number of customers, the most number of sales, and
the highest sales.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
And you did that with your shoes, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
And then I became a store manager, so I wanted
to do it with my shop, you know. Then I became,
you know, looking after a number of shops, so my
group of shops had to be the top performers. And
then as you go through your career, you know, for me,
it was all about setting targets and making my employer
(05:00):
think of me as perhaps the most valuable person.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Well, you were clearly valuable because when you came to
New Zealand to spruce up Briscoes for a sale, it
wasn't doing well. The owners wanted it gone. You used
your bonus famously to buy it. Yeah, it must been
quite a good bonus.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Well, it was because they were hemorrhaging at the time,
and so they owed me a bonus for my first
year's work, and my brief was to sell it. They
weren't particularly interested in getting a lot of money for it,
because loss making businesses don't generate a lot of money
(05:43):
when you sell, so they were glad to be rid
of it. So I guess the gesture of not collecting
my bonus but collecting twelve sets of keys was it
was probably worth it at the time.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
So this was nineteen eighty eighth r before the economic
reforms in New Zealand. It was two worlds pre nineteen
eighty nine, post nineteen eighty nine New Zealand it was
vastly different. Yeah, it was a time of real change
in this country.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah. So I came in September eighty eight and had
already done the transaction by March eighty nine. Six months
on to take effect from the end of that year.
And so I didn't I didn't actually see a lot
of economic change because I had no experience of pre
(06:35):
September Rady eight.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Well, we didn't have any Sunday trading.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
No, you didn't, and you're you're quite right change. Thank goodness,
you didn't. How did you do that?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
How did you come an? Ah?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Look, you look for ways to disrupt the market. You
look for ways to get your company noticed. When we
Rebel Sport, the primary thing for us then was to
get top of mine awareness high. Okay, and you do
that by lots of advertising and cheap prices and lots
(07:10):
of stores. You can do that. But the but the
cherry on top is really the really unusual thing that
gets you front page headlines in every paper in the
country for two or three weeks. That's that's the big
that's the big kahuna. That's that's that's what really gets
(07:31):
you noticed. And so Sunday trading did that for us.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Right, So was it sort of thin lips and purse
lips and how outrageous that this as it up starts
coming here and is opening up on the Lord's Day? No?
Was it that kind of headline or no.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Well, certainly internally with the staff, it was you're going
to do what? Wow? Okay, is that not illegal? So
what are the fines? Have you thought of everything? I think, Look,
we've thought of everything. We've got our ducks in a row.
We believe the New Zealand public want it. There will
(08:10):
be no victims because at the end of the day,
you staff, you're going to volunteer. I'm not going to
make your work Sunday. You're going to volunteer, but put
your put a smile on your face because you're going
to get your picture in the front page of your
newspaper tomorrow. And so all the staff volunteered. We kept
(08:35):
it relatively quiet because you're always in fear of court
orders to remain closed, so we had to keep tight lipped.
We got the VID tapes for the TV ads into
the television stations very late. We got the all the
(09:01):
pre recorded radio media to the radio stations very late,
and it became turned out to be the secret was
kept and Saturday night television where just blasted, were open Sunday,
and by seven thirty Sunday morning there were two or
(09:23):
three hundred people waiting outside stores waiting to get in.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
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Speaker 2 (09:45):
So, what made you think that the product that was
inside those stores was going to be worth buying? Given
that you'd inherited twelve stores that were failing.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
We had already built up quite a reputation for sales
or selling events that appealed to the public. I came
in September ninety eighty eight, and we had a very
very poor track record in terms of sales and in
terms of profit. People didn't know about us. We set
(10:19):
about a lot of television and media campaigns that raised
our top of mind awareness rapidly. This is just Prisco's
raised it rapidly. So at that stage that we did
the Sunday we're not unknown, okay.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
And you were confident in your product.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah, the product was always going to sell because the
deal that we had on the table for people was
attractive but perhaps even more importantly, I think for the
general public who went down there and stood in line
to get in the stores, it was more about this
is illegal. I quite like this. It's just back in
(10:58):
the face of the government. You should have something about it.
There are no victims and I'm going to go there. Look,
we had we had church ministers lined up to buy,
not to not to Well this was their customers who
were supposed to be elsewhere on Sunday, but they were
their shopping So it was all of it. It's all
(11:20):
a bit surreal, really, particularly those early ones. So we
did that for about six weeks, and rather than get
fined or slapped on the rest or anything like that,
the government the day thought it would be better if
they just made it legal, so they quickly passed legislation
that made it legal. So from there, you know, I
(11:40):
had a lot of other retails open Sunday, so it
wasn't quite as lucrative.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
But you know, you've seen so many different phases of
the economy, so many different phases of life with Bruskos,
and yet it endures, not just endures, it's doing incredibly
well when so many are failing.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah, I think I think it's all about the market
position that we've adopted. Let me take back all the
way back to back tonight September ninety eighty eight. I
was at the company I and the country about a
week and at that still, at that stage, we had
(12:27):
thirteen thirteen shops, two buyers and a ops manager, and
I got hold of them. So listen, I want to
make Saturday morning, get all the store managers up to Auckland,
put them in the cheapest hotel you can find, make
them walk to work if it's to the office, if
it's not too far away, and I want to have
(12:49):
a big meeting. I want to figure out where we
go from here. Okay, So bought them all, then set
them down and then set them home late Saturday afternoon
early Saturday evening. And the purpose of that exercise was
to figure out where we would sit in the New
Zealand landscape. Retail landscape, okay at that stage, probably not
(13:10):
that much changed today. It went all the way from
two dollar shops all the way through to flash boutiques
and flash department stores. Smith and Kobe was probably one
of that end, and Kirk's it at the same end,
(13:31):
and two dollars shops and two dollars shops look alike,
some big ones and some small ones that used to
sell very very cheap and pretty horrible merchandise. But you
know it was a lot of people want to buy that.
So where do we want to fit in between those? Well,
we established pretty quickly that there was a there was
(13:53):
a slot that was vacant, and the slot that was
vacant was real good quality merchandise but a real good price.
Now you can buy a real good merchandise in New Zealand,
even back in nineteen eighty eight, but you had to
go to the flash stores and pay big bucks, real
big money. So we thought, if we can get hold
(14:13):
of these famous brand names in the homewaes business and
we can put them in cheaper shops, not shopping centers,
We've got about a lot of rent. I wonder how
the New Zealand public would go with that. So we
thought that's worth an experiment. I think that might work
because everyone wants to buy good stuff. You just can't
(14:36):
afford it all the time. Some people can't forard it
any of the time. But so we thought we'll put
this in there. So we did, and it really resonated
very very very very quickly, and we've been true to
that all thirty seven years. So we're still doing the
same thing. So if you look at our rangers, we've
(14:57):
got famous brand name, high qual merchandise, but we try
and get it as cheap as we can so we
can sell it at the very very very best price
that we can. So that's where we sit, and that's
where we sat then and that's where we still sit
in the New Zealand retail landscape.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I suppose you see that with the sneak promotion, you know,
with the high quality cook where that people go completely
nuts over with the stickers at New World. You know,
it's high quality stuff that they might not otherwise get
a chance to buy.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
So did it all come down to the relationship you
had with you A supplies as well? Did you have
to build good, strong relationships with them?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah? Yeah, Well, fortunately I knew a lot of the
supplies from Australia, Okay, So I worked in the retip.
I've worked to the retype as all my life in Australia.
I work for the biggest department store chain in New
South Wales, which is Grace Brothers. I knew the managing
(16:05):
directors and the sales directors of each of these famous brands.
I had done them a lot of favors. They have
done me some favors, and I knew them personally, I
knew them particularly well. I came to New Zealand and
I called off some favors. Ran so look, I'm here,
(16:27):
I need a favor. I need you to do this,
and what I'll do I'll repay you with us. This
is what I'll be able to do back. That worked wonderfully.
They supported us, and now the vast majority of them
are still very good customers of ours, and we still
(16:52):
remain their biggest account of this country. So we just
looked after one of those you just called a favor
off a friend. That's basically what I do.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
It's by relationships, isn't it It is. Yeah. It's interesting
too because you famously don't have debt, you know. And
I remember at the time that New Zealand was changing
in the eighties, there was a Tom Scott cartoon with
a little boy walking along, grubby little thing saying, my
dad's poor. Heos the bank one thousand dollars, and the
private school boy next to him saying, my dad's Richie
(17:21):
ows the bank a million, you know, and I think
I think some of those old fashioned trading values got
lost along the way, and that's where people can trip
themselves up.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah. Look, I'm not scared of debt, okay, but it
just seems to me. You know, if you can manage
your costs, you know, that is the cost of your infantry,
cost of your labor, and the cost of your occupancy.
If you can control those three, you have money left
(17:55):
over every week, and you just manage your shop refurbishments,
opening the new stores, and your expenditures as per the
money you've got in the bank, you know. And that's
basically what we've done.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
We haven't borrowed money for I don't know, thirty five years.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
The government might like to borrow someone of you at the.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Well, I've been lending it out to the banks, you know,
but even the interest rates are no good now either.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
The other thing is too, I mean, you pay your
suppliers so they are happy to do you a favor.
You know, they don't have to wait for their money.
They know you're good for it.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Reliabilities, you've got to be reliable. They've got to be
able to trust you. You. Look, there was a time
you asked earlier, you know about people doing your favors.
Back in the early days, I didn't have a lot
of money. So one of the favors I am, or
(18:51):
one of the favors they did for me, was that
I would buy things from them and buy a lot,
and I'd be say to them, look, I can't pay
it on time. So that's all right, Well when can
you pay me? I said, Okay, when is the first
day you get into trouble from your finance director about
(19:13):
Brisco's what's the first day? They'd invariably say the one
hundred and twenty first day. Okay, got thirty days from statements,
it really gives you sixty one hundred and twenty one
days if starts to ask questions. So I said, okay,
(19:33):
you sell me that product. It's half a million dollars.
I will give you half a million dollars on the
one hundred and nineteenth day. Okay, then you deliver. Sure enough,
we're able to do it. So there's suddenly a great trust.
He's not getting into trouble from his finance people. Sure,
I'm a bit late, but he's already advise them they'll
(19:55):
be paying it one hundred and nineteen days. So it's
it's trust, it's reliability, keeping your promise, keeping a word.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
The other thing is not getting over excited by success
too early. I think too, because I've met some old
school guys who have done really well with their wives.
You know, it's a partnership, but they didn't do any
major drawings from the company for years, you know, they
put it all back into the business. And they said
they've seen some young ones get tripped up because they
(20:29):
start to live the flash life before they can, before
they're ready for it. They don't understand about the work
that goes in to build the foundation to build the business.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Yeah, I've seen that too. Yeah, I've seen it too.
Didn't happen with me, didn't happen with us. I don't know.
But I've never really been a flash Harry, you know,
even when you know, I guess about several years in
so early nineties could have border flash Lamborghini easy. I
(21:05):
just didn't know.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
What do you drive?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
I drive a flash Porsch now by it's a suv,
but it's to carry rugby kids. In some years ago
with my young fellow used to play Rugby and to
those scary golf clubs. So still flash brand name, but
it's a SUV. But no, I know what you mean
because I've seen it myself.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
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Speaker 2 (21:52):
Your dad was a bookie and you you're and your
siblings would count the money. Yep, So you know what
kesh looks like. My dad was a small town manager
and I remember going into the vaults when I was
helping on the school holidays for work, be a part
time job, and there's money, all this money in there.
But it's dirty too, like it's not you have to
work hard and get sweat on your hands to make money.
(22:13):
I wonder if and these days it's all screens and
people don't understand what money looks like and feels like.
Perhaps I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Yeah, Look, I think at the same time, if you're
talking about today, you've got to probably go back to
primary and secondary education. You know, they're teaching some of
these kids and dopey stuff, but they're not talking about budgeting,
about economics, about bank interest rates, about compound interest, every
(22:42):
day living stuff. No one's getting taught about it. And
I just wondered whether it's time to sit down and
go hang on a minute, let's have a look at
this curriculum. Does it need some sort of correcting, you know,
do we need to introduce an amateur accounting something that
teaches people about budgeting, about you know, the expenditure of money,
(23:07):
how to save some tricks about having this save money.
You know, for me, I never had that problem. I
had a dad who didn't grow up. He was still
a kid in the depression. But even after that, you know,
even in the nineteen forties and fifties, he was he
(23:29):
was thrifty. You know, well I don't know about the forties,
but certainly through the fifties and sixties he was he
was thrifty. You know, not mean no, but there's a
do threfty. Yeah, have you.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Had any I suppose first of all, when did you
know you'd succeeded? When did you know it was a winner?
Was it about seven or eight years into.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Riscoes operator, probably about three years in because my dad
at that stage was.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
He thought I was living his life. So he used
to come over, having been an accountant as well, used
to dash into the office alongside me to our accountant
or CFO at that stage and just say to him, look,
how's he doing this. Give me a look of the books.
(24:26):
I don't understand this. I don't understand it. So he
go through it and he figured out, I think pretty
early three or four years in, you know, we were
going to end up making some serious money if we could,
if we could maintain the momentum. So that stage, our
revenues were growing at about forty percent compound per year,
(24:47):
so they were growing rapidly, and we turned a loss
into profit very quickly and then accelerated the profit out.
My mum always said that, you know, I was living
my father's life. So he was the one that actually
alerted me and came back and said, look, this is
you're going to you're going to be very wealthy. But
this looks like this looks like a winner.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
But you didn't care. The money wasn't the thing it
was the sale, was it?
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Yeah it wasn't. But it's never been never about is
that been never about the money. It's all about having,
you know, the best toy being being the best at
your job, getting bigger, expanding, external people writing up how
(25:36):
clever these are, these Brisco people are, and blah blah blah.
It's all about, you know, it's all about being being
the company being recognized, okay, as being successful. And therefore
all the key people, store managers, the people who who
pack up the shelves, the people who delivered the stock,
(25:58):
all having Briscoes on there their shirt labels, you know,
getting some recognition from from everyone that you know, it's
a nice and successful place to work with.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Have there been failures along the way or has it
been pretty linear?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Have we made some mistakes? Oh yeah, yeah, but you
have to you know, I've been a buyer of merchandise,
you know, in my view, that's the best part of it,
you know, being able to buy because if you can
buy the right product, right price, you know, then bring
it into the country and just sell it and see
it sell like crazy. That's that's the big you know,
(26:42):
that's the heroine, that's the that's the real excitement. But sure,
I've brought some pretty ordinary product that has been.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Are there any that stand out where you thought it
doesn't be a winner and then it's just sat there
and set there.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, there've been a couple. You know, I famously bought
bamboo steamers back in the day before people recognize the
value of them. What thousands of them? They took us
a long old to digest a lot.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
While well, I think I've got a couple of them.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Fortunately they wear out and people have to replace them.
So no, we've look, we've made some mistakes, but you know,
you have to make mistakes, you know, to figure out
what not to do next time. But I guess the
trick is you always got to make more successes than
you do mistakes, and you just keep learning, but you
(27:42):
just don't get over excited and make very very, very
very big mistakes.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Is the Brisco's Lady, you're Brisco's buy basically in your mind?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
No, she was, she was the symbol.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
She's just every woman, isn't she.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
I love her.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, she's like the Tina from Tunas of used to you.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, we're still we were lucky. Yeah, and then she
loves a lifespector. A couple of weeks ago and she
just loves it, just loves her job. Yeah, loves loves,
loves the work that she does, but probably loves even
more being in the stores mixing with the customers. When
we open new stores, she's there. And you know, no,
(28:23):
she was. She was recruited through an audition process I
guess about eighty nine or nineteen ninety something. About nineteen
ninety I said, well tell me or no, but I
think it was about nineteen ninety. I got sick of
(28:43):
doing these loud, screaming scream into the bike, looks straight
into the camera ads, you know, get in Sunday thought,
I don't want to be there that I don't want
to do this, so change So what a female presenter
that's our core customer and a face of face of Briscoes.
(29:04):
And she's just been massively successful. You know, everyone's in
love with her, and so we've kept her on as
part of the team.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Loyalty seems to be a big core component of how
you do things to live your life.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
It is I am extremely loyal to people who are
loyal to us. But at the same time, if we
find and we have found suppliers of product who go
off and do silly things, you know, we've I have
(29:45):
deliberately made a point of making a clear example of
them to our own people. And so you know, we
had I remember a big supplier in textile area when
I first joined and we ask for some help early
(30:06):
nineteen eighty eight, went back and said, look, I'm going
to support you, but you need to support me by
helping me with my advertising and promotional campaigns. In terms
of funding. Now we run a buckeload of money with you,
I want you to kick in. Everyone else agreed except
this one. You know him to be our biggest so
(30:28):
we clive off, stop doing business. You're out of here.
But that's set an example for everybody else, not just suppliers,
but also people inside the organization to say we're looking
to support, we want loyalty, we want support. If you're
(30:50):
going to be with us, that's terrific. And we've kept
the vast majority of all those people all the way
through thirty or forty years. But I think sometimes you know,
you just got to make examples just to reinforce you know,
how serious you are about about supporting those who support you.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
So the sales have been a big part of the press.
I think I tend to go in at white on
your weekend and labor weekend to do the big shops
of the sheets and the towels and the new crockery
that still works, doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Look? For us, we invented the one day sale because
we are not in shopping malls. We're often in places
where people have to go and look for us in
we're called it destination stores. You have to set out
to find us, okay, and so we needed to drive
people there. A serious motivator for a lot of people
(31:49):
is brand new merchandise, real good price, you know, for
a limited period, okay, And that formula has worked for us. Now,
if we were sitting in a shopping mall on what
we call the ant track where people walk past every day,
then I wouldn't have to spend that money on advertising
(32:09):
and promotion. But of course those premises cost five times
as much in terms of rent to be in. So
it's a devil if you do and a devil if
you devil if you don't. So if you're in the
shop wall, you don't need to do it, but you've
got to pay that in rent. If you're in a
destination center like a high street or a or a
homemaker center with a couple other like folks or retailers.
(32:34):
Then sure you don't pay we near the rent, but
you've got to drive people to the center, and you
do that by way of promotions and incentives and what
have you.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
You obviously still love working in the business and there's
plenty of life left. But will you sell it when
you've had enough? Ah, you have the majority shareholder? Yeah,
look taking it over?
Speaker 3 (33:01):
No. Look, Look, look, I probably need to contemplate a
sell down of some description of some of the some
of the stock because the end of the day we're
in the inside X top two hundred, the top two
hundred companies in this country. And then you've got to
(33:24):
You've got a shareholder of thir own seventy five percent
of the shares. That's silly, really, you know, I could
have exactly the same control if I want to control
at fifty one percent. So look, I have a lot
of shareholders, and a lot of institutions, and a lot
of people who want who want to share in this business.
(33:46):
And so probably sooner rather than later, I will I
will probably elect to sell down a modest number of shares.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah, when it comes to so you boy taking me over.
You didn't want him and to take over dad's company.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Look for me. I find it very, very hard to
believe that an offspring of mine would be identical. Okay,
in desire trade. Look, I've said it to it, I've
said it to a lot of people. If he wants
(34:26):
to go in the retar business, fantastic. I'd love him
to be in the retap business like and I could help. Okay,
but he's going to get into a twenty first century
retarp business, you know, not one that was started in
seventeen seventy something and eighteen sixty one in this country.
You know, get into a twenty first century business. I'll
(34:47):
fund you into it. I'll help you in, okay, but
you're not coming into mine.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
What is something that you can't say no to? It
a Brisco sale?
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Oh? Probably a big discount off titless golf balls.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Looking back now, what advice would you give to a
young person starting out in business?
Speaker 3 (35:13):
Find an occupation that you love.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
What's a mistake you've made you will never make again?
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Oh? Um, that one.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
What's the most extravagant thing you've spent money on? For
somebody who's pretty sensible? What would be the most extravagant.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
About three years ago, I bought a ordered a brand
new Lamborghini finally a rus which is a suvy way away,
and got it okay, And so I picked it up
(36:04):
and then drove it up down the street and made
a lot of noise. So then I park it somewhere
and people will be looking at me. And then about
six months later, I took it back to the dealership.
See you sell it. I don't want it. So why
It's a beautiful car, so I know, but it's just
too ostentatious for me. So I said, here, you sell it. It'
(36:26):
so I got real it. So I only had it
for about six months.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
What color was it?
Speaker 3 (36:30):
I was a really bright electric blue.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
It was.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
It was gorgeous, but it was just too ostentatious for me.
I don't buy I don't buy boats or planes or
helicopters or I don't. I don't buy any of that stuff.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
You just travel class and business class.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Well I don't. I don't went on my business, but
I do when I when I fly personally.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
So you don't fly business?
Speaker 3 (36:57):
I do, yes, I do, I know, not not business? No, No,
I don't ask the company to pay business class, sorry,
first class, they pay business okay, but that's only because
and all my buyers when they travel overseas always travel
business class because you don't get your rest days at
(37:18):
brisk goes. So you try from here to Frankfurt, okay,
and you're working at seven o'clock. The next morning, you're
working okay. Then you get back on, then you fly,
you get off, then you're back in the office, you know.
So that's my trade off, you know. And most of
the business class these days, you can sleep comfortably on
(37:40):
those very very very long flights. You can sleep very comfortably.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
And what would be your proudest moment.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Commercially, I think personally personally, probably the birth of my son,
you know, one son. Lots of wives, one son, and
it was it was great, fantastic, love.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Him, and then your next life. Will you be a
professional golfer?
Speaker 3 (38:14):
No, it's too hard. It's easy being a retailer. It's
way way, way, way way too hard being a professional golfer,
way too hard. I've seen plenty of very very very
very good golfers and lots of want to be pros,
and they're good. These bells are real good. But it's
(38:34):
too hard, it's too difficult. There's too many there's too
many better golfers out there. I know five guys in
this country who I played golf with who could have
easy been professional golfers. They're that good, but they're not
quite good enough to make a living.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
But there aren't many better retailers than Roger.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Look. I try very very very hard, and I work
at it.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
And that was Rod Duke, managing director of the Brisco Group.
If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more
stories about what it's really like to run a business,
follow Bosses Unfiltered on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.
Next time, we're with Lisa King, founder of af Drinks,
who tells me how she's built a global drinks company
(39:26):
from lockdown and why she loves being underestimated. See you soon,
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