November 19, 2025 • 34 mins
It’s hard enough to chase a scientific breakthrough.
But as New Zealand company Ārepa found out it's even harder and more expenisve to defend your breakthroughs time and time again.
Ārepa was founded in 2017 and the so called “brain drink” company was growing at a rapid pace when at the end of 2023, they hit a massive speed bump.
That's when the Ministry for Primary Industries and an Auckland University scientist came out and said the company hadn’tactually proven better brain function at all.
Ārepa found itself in the headlines, but for all the wrong reasons.
The company's co-founder and co-chief executive Angus Brown told their story with Kerre Woodham on the latest episode of Bosses Unfiltered.
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NOTE: This interview was recorded on June 4th 2025.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The big winds and the big losses, the hurdles, the pivots,
and the emotions, raw and honest New Zealand's great business
minds like you've never heard them before. This is Bosses
Unfiltered with Kerry Woodhem on iHeartRadio powered by Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It's hard enough to chase a scientific breakthrough, but as
my next guest found out, it's even harder and more
expensive to defend your breakthroughs time and time again. You
probably know a Reaper from the drinksyle at the supermarket.
Founded in twenty seventeen, the company behind the so called
brain drink was growing at a rapid pace when at
(00:40):
the end of twenty twenty three they hit a massive
speed bump. That's when the Ministry for Primary Industries and
an Auckland University scientist came out and said the company
hadn't actually proven better brain function at all. A Reaper
found itself in the headlines, but for all the wrong reasons.
Angus Brown is the co founder and co chief executive
(01:02):
of A Reaper. Now, this is a company that's had
a spectacular rise, and there was a hell of a
fall in the middle along. There wasn't there. So tell
me about the rise first, Let's start positively.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Sure, Yeah, how did it begin? How did it begin? So?
I so the idea kind of was inspired around I
had lost a friend to suicide at high school and
then went on to university quickly learnt about what you
put in your body is what you get out. You know,
often university students, you know, survive on two minute noodles
(01:36):
and beer. And notice that my cognitive function and mood,
you know, heavily degraded if I gave myself a poor diet.
And then my first job after university was selling an
energy drink, and I was really excited initially, but after
a period of time, I realized that I was just
(01:56):
selling you know, caffeine and sugar into mass New Zealand,
and I wanted to do something better. Two of my
grandparents had died within that first year of brain related concerns,
and so I started to think, well, you know, why
can't we make something that's natural that's good for you,
that doesn't contain caffeine, And could we work with a
(02:18):
neuroscientist to develop it so that when we put it
through a clinical study we could show that it actually
had a benefit to the brain and then if they
consumed that regularly, could have made their brain work better
and could your brain be healthier over the long term.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Which is a really attractive proposition to think that you
can take something that is going to make your brain healthier.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yeah, exactly, but it's quite it's rare, like you don't
you know, you don't often see that type of promise
in a food and it actually delivered that. And so
we were really trying to break the frontier of nutritional neuroscience.
And so I pitched the idea back to the energy
Drink Come and kind of got laughed out the door
(03:03):
really And then I came across the newly commissioned food
bowl back in the Stephen Joyce era and which was
owned and run by Callahan Innovation, and kind of knocked
on this thirty million dollar modular food factory and said, hey,
I've got this idea for a brain drink, you know,
(03:25):
could you guys help? And then so I was one
of the first of clients to use the facility, and
then a job came up and did you have to
pay for that? Yeah? It was quite expensive, probably about
four thousand for the day. And my friend and I
were pressing at the time blueberries and we were mixing
in pine bark and then we're putting it through this
(03:45):
really interesting processing technology called high pressure processing, and afterwards
the product came out like a jelly. We've created, you know,
four thousand dollars worth of blueberry pine bark tasting jelly
and it tasted horrible. Oh my, you know, goodness, But
we learned a little bit and probably the best thing
that came out of it was a job was going
(04:07):
there as business development manager and I thought, man, this
would be amazing place to work so I could learn
more about this whole world of food tech because I
have a background in finance and accounting, right, but I
found the whole world of fast moving consumer goods really
interesting because it was a perfect mix of both commerce,
marketing and science. And the science side of things really
(04:28):
interested me. And so for six years I worked at
the Food Bowl for New Zealand government, helping companies big
and small develop new high value food and beverage products
for local and export markets.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Well nursing the idea of your.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Own yeah, and they really encouraged the staff to develop
their own ideas and their own time and so that
you could actually, you know, walk the walk, rather than
just tell people how to do things without your own
true experience. And this idea just keeped bumbling away and
I keept kind of just doing my research. And then
we came across one of the world's top neuroscientists in
(05:08):
the field of nutritional neuroscience and that's based on published
research sited and he's in the top zero point zero
one percent of scientists in this field clinical nutrition. And
he was based in Australia, and I reached out to
him and said, Hey, I've got this idea for a
brain health drink. Could you help with the formulation. I
(05:29):
want to use at least one ingredient that's unique to
New Zealand. I want it to be cafeine free. I
want the combination of the ingredients to be synergistic. And
I wanted to improve aspects of mental performance and mood.
And ideally, if they consumed it regularly, we could make
their brain be healthier and work better of the long term.
(05:50):
Because the goal for our business is we want to
make brains work better through science backed nutrition, and if
we can push out a healthier brain for longer than
there's less economic burden later on life.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
And uh.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
You know this guy was his professor, Andrew Scoley, and
he's used to dealing with the Nesleys and the Union
Levers of this world. And you know it took a
while for him to be convinced that they should work
with Angus Brown from Hawk's Bay on this you know
novel idea.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
And then my business partner, his father part of the set, Robinson,
his father Daran Robinson from the Raycon family. They pitched
in the original Angel investment for us to commission this
world renown neuroscientist to develop this formula, and so it
contained this unique to New Zealand variety of black currents
(06:43):
we call neuroberry black currents. And I can talk more
about the interesting thing in them later. A pine bark
extract from New Zealand called in oginal uh and althenine,
which is a really popular amino sid found in green
tea there. It supports kind of attention and stress and
helps to counter the negative effects of caffeine.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
So in effect, you were looking for a recipe from.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Him, Yeah, a recipe backed by like really sound science
that we could then take to a university once we
had formulated it to then be the subject of a
clinical study and so you know, a few months later
and a very thick report, we got this amazing document
(07:29):
to talk us about to talk through that sorry, that
talked through all of the science of our ingredients and
the synergy potential, and so that was really cool. My
co founder and I he at the time was in
the UK, and I was just doing this part time.
And then and he comes from an industrial design background
(07:50):
and so I was learning food tech. So I was
kind of working on the inside and he was working
on the outside of the bottle. And then we had
and like before foot, but before we had and this
is important for when we talk about the low moment,
before we had approached that neuroscientist, we had worked with
(08:11):
a local scientist on a separate formula and we didn't
see a result and it didn't contain our Neurowberry black current,
and so we kind of parked that scientist, doctor nik Gant,
and then looked at, Okay, how can a formula work
and what does need to have And so our attention
(08:31):
then turned because a recent publication to come out around
New Zealand Black Current, and so we started to use
that as our key ingredient. And then we approached our
new professor Skolely to help us worth optimizing that formula.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
And so the old recipe didn't have the black currents.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
You correct and yeah, like different ingredients, and so we
chipped around this idea when you first gave us the
report and we bought all the ingredients and we put
into a bottle and added water. We almost sped it
back out again because you know, it's got pine bark
in there, which tastes like park but we threw clever
natural flavors and working with our ingredient suppliers, and this
(09:11):
pine bark extrac company is from New Zealand and they've
now invested in US. And then the Black Currents come
from New Zealand and one of the largest grows in
the country has invested in US. So we were started
to become vertically integrated with our supply chain, which is
really cool. And then once we got the flavor right,
we took it back out to the the academic world
(09:32):
and said we want to study this. We think we've
got something. And then they said, well, if you wanted
to study a beverage, you need a placebo, and we thought,
oh man and so we but it had to be
a taste match placebo and a carb or hydrate match
placebo and a vitamin C match placebo. So it took
us a whole year just to make a placebo just
so we could go back to the science community and
(09:52):
say we're ready to be studied. You know, how much
is it going to cost? And so we got a
quote and then we use investment from the ingredient suppliers
and our existing angel investors to commit all that to
a clinical study.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
And how much was it? Because a lot of natural
vitamin suppliers and herbal extract people say that that's the
big turn off for them, as they just simply can't
get the money for the testing.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yeah, it's really really expensive. I would hate to think
how much we've spent on our clinical research to date,
but a clinical study would cost anywhere from eighty thousand
dollars to one and a half a million. But we
from the foundation of our business, we wanted to invest
more in the science upfront and whatever we could afward
(10:42):
later on marketing, because we think the science is more
defensible if we can actually show something right. So we
raise the money, did the first study and that was
at the University of Auckland with Associate Professor Andrea Brakhaus.
It was in twenty three healthy athletes and one a
(11:06):
day for seven days of our beverage resulted in a
statistically significant improvement in kind of reaction speed and accuracy
under fatigue. So we fatigued these athletes and we gave
them a Stroop test afterwards, and we found that the
accuracy accuracy score was improved. But then we learned that
(11:28):
under the food Code in New Zealand, we couldn't even
really talk about any of those results because you needed
to put it through. To do a health claim, you
need to do two clinical studies and have both the
same outcome at the same set as the same primary outcome,
and you kind of need to like duplicate it. And
(11:50):
as we're finding this out, we were kind of committing
to new research elsewhere because we were finding signals that
maybe this, if it works in athletes, maybe we should
look at their brand drive neutropic factor and take their
bloods and look at how they perform against you know,
kind of oxygen deprivation or pollution.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
The honor story of being in business, talking the wins
and the losses Bosses Unfiltered with Kerry woodhem On iHeartRadio
powered by News Talks EDB. What it's really like to
build a business in New Zealand. Bosses Unfiltered with Kerry
woodhem On iHeartRadio powered by News TALKSB.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Presumably you've got a finite line of funding, so there'd
be all sorts of amazing tests you could do if
you had unlimited money.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Yeah, correct, So you'd have to drill down.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Into the ones that we're going to be able to correct,
give you defensible claims.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Yeah. And so so that first study was kind of
like our breakout study. We got some good press for it.
We had the All Blacks reach out, and you know,
we've been supplying elite athletes from around the world and
elite teams since then.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
How did they hear about it?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well, when you published the research and Black currents, you know,
the nutritional industry, nutritionist industry kind of all hears about it,
and the black the All Blacks nutritionists kind of you know,
we've got in touch.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
And so you didn't go knocking on doors. They came
to you saying we'd love to trial this.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
I think it was just both ways. I think yep,
the science stacks up. This is pretty interesting. Yeah, we'll
take a look. And yeah, we've been.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
There were there were great headlines at the time. I remember,
I've been buying it and.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
So and so we got into Pharaoh's, we got into
New Worlds, and then I went full time after that
left and you know, the New Zealand fod innovation. The
food Bawl guy has almost kicked me out, said you
need to go. This is you know, this is your thing.
And so yeah, we kind of our distribution and sales
continued to grow, and yeah, we went from we doubled
revenue year on year for I think like four consecutive years.
(13:57):
And then at the peak before this whole the snaffoo
and then the economy, we were the eighth fastest growing
company by Deloitte Fast fifty and then the fastest FMCG
company and I think yeah, and so we were hitting
roughly just on a ten million revenue.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
So that's good. Yeah, so you're feeling positive, you're doing
feeling good in the world, you're making money, you're paying
back your investors.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Yep, and we're funding you know, at this point in time,
a considerable amount of studies across University of Auckland and
Plant food Research. We had launched into Australia and you know,
we're kind of hitting three thousand outlets. Steven Adams invested
in us, the two of the x CEOs of Zesbury
(14:46):
invested in us. The founder of Convetera.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Everyone wants a pie.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
And these guys are like my heroes, especially, you know,
the Conveter and Zesbury. They've built big international businesses around
high value New Zealand food ip and that's what we
wanted to replicate in the brain fruit space. And you
were yeah, and we still are. And then and then
(15:13):
we launched and then our second study was published. And
these were kind of just getting published as when they
were being completed and submitted to the journal, so we
didn't really have a structured timing on when now we've
got we've had nine or ten kind of underway, and
we've published sex now and we've got a fu more
in the pipeline of this clinical research. And we had
(15:38):
one study come through and the scientists were saying, yeah,
we boosted. We tested your formula on elite cyclists and
being Exposed to pollution was at University of Auckland and
we found that those on ard Eppa versus the placebo
after seven days consumption had a higher VO two max
(16:00):
reduce cough symptoms, and we could shave twenty seconds off
their four kilometer cycle time trial. And so we as
a co founder and I saw this, well, oh this
is awesome, and then we kind of you know, drafted
up our pr plan and then launched. And then suddenly
and then we started to We hired a young neuroscientist
(16:21):
and we were we grew like twenty three staff and.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
From the two of you to twenty three. Yeah, and
how many years.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Oh this is over this like four year period, but
you know, the first three years there were five of
us and then so we had this team and so
we were like we were running really quickly, and I
think there were we hired a young neuroscientists and a
young marketing team, and then they were starting to talk
about the published research on our ingredients and our published
(16:51):
research on our website. And I think that became, you know,
the attraction of our competitor to complain to the MPI
that hey, these guys can't say this because as per
the ruling, to do health claims you have to do
you have to file it through a systematic review and
(17:12):
the schedule, so and we didn't really have a clear
and it's still not clear because people are still different,
companies are still saying different things around and it has
been clear, but whether it's regulated or not, whether you
can actually communicate your published research to your consumers. And
(17:33):
one piece of feedback we got during the it's called
the snaffoo, was that we weren't even allowed to have
the link to our own published study on our own
product that they can pick up in the supermarket on
the website because according to MPI at the time, that
was considered a health claim. But our minds were like,
(17:54):
we've published this piece of research, shouldn't and it's publicly available,
shouldn't we be able to communicate we found there. But
I'm happy with how the strict ruling is in New
Zealand because it raises the bar compared to say, the States.
But what we're struggling with right now is that American
competitors with non compliant packaging are coming into the New
(18:14):
Zealand market and we're not seeing much kind of pushback
on those.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Tell me about the snaffo.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
So we had so we had a journalist come knocking
on our door to say, hey, we hear that you're
going to get a letter from MPI. Zone and Zack
and I going, you know what, letter from MPI. We
don't really know what's going on here. And then we
had MPI touch base us, say we're going to issue
(18:42):
you a notification. It turns out whole bunch of competitors
had complained about our science communication, which I met at
the time, looking back, was probably a bit bullish and
a bit confident, but we were being true to the
published evidence out there on the ingredients that we were using,
or on the on the research that we were publishing
(19:04):
on our finished formula. And so we had MPI come
down like quite heavy handedly on and having and we
had to put a notification on our website that the
claims that we were making around our ingredients were unsubstantiated.
(19:26):
And we knew that we like the science was telling
us that, but we hadn't filed that information through their
preferred schedule in their preferred format. So we got this
notification from MPI that we were making claims that we
shouldn't have. And then it came down to the They
(19:48):
were most worried about the packaging and we then updated
the packaging and the only update that's noticeable to the
consumer was a little wee plus on the front of
our packaging next to the word brain drink and making
it clear that it was related to at the time
vitamin C, even though we ruled out vitamin C and
our clinical research. Two days later, an article came out
(20:14):
from the Herald that we were making we were misleading
consumers and we had misleading claims, and then you know,
we suddenly I had one news turning up on our doorstep.
And then that night we were on primetime News and
there was a whole piece on us that was already
prepped that had in the and TVNZ it had brought
(20:37):
in an ex quote unquote expert scientist to comment, and
they chose the scientists that we had worked with on
our old formula that didn't work to comment on our research,
and he was not aware of what we had coming
in the pipeline through University of Auckland around primarily around
(21:02):
this next study which is pretty game changing where one
a day of our performance drink for twenty eight days
and thirty eight healthy females result in a thirty three
percent improvement and working memory and a twenty odd percent
improvement in mood. He thought that we were marketing the
(21:23):
product that we tested with him that didn't contain the
black current and didn't contain the bioactives that we had
in market, and so he gave us a lashing and
we never got our right of reply live. So the
whole world, well all of New Zealand got introduced to
us on primetime television as the drink that wasn't backed
(21:46):
by science and was making unsubstantiated health claims. Yet we
are still the only beverage in supermarkets that has clinical
research on it that's per reviewed and published.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
That must have been devastating.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, it was. It was. It's haf We lost about
two million dollars worth of revenue that forecasted year because
of you know, most of New Zealand being introduced us
for the first time as this like snake oil marketer.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I was talking to a colleague who said, why are
you still at work because normally I'm off early. Yes,
after my show, and I said, I'm interviewing the founder
of Adepa Drinks. Oh, they're the ones that got into trouble.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yeah that so everyone thinks that we're like these naughty
kids that you know, got into trouble when we don't.
We essentially don't work. And yet like we've got five patents,
we've got six human clinical studies showing statistically significant improvements
to my brain function, mood meant performance, biomarkers, neurotransmitters don't mean.
(22:46):
And yet it's really really hard for us to actually
be able to publicly communicate that because of how the
food codes is set with because no one's really done
this before and so.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
So were you sitting on the couch watching one news
unfold my two.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Year old two odd sons going daddy and it's just like, oh,
here you go, son, Like, here's your your dad on
TV for all the wrong reasons. And then it went
on and breakfast the next day. On the breakfast, the
same neuroscientist, Nick Gant again completely purpooed our science. We
never got any chance to also go on and rebut
or have our neuroscientists, you know, to talk about and
(23:27):
correct him on some of the false statements that he made,
and he did make false statements, and then we then
communicated to him through the University of Auckland, Hey, are
you aware that we have this, this, this, this, this,
and this in terms of the research that's either published
or coming through from a data read out perspective through
to peer review in publication. And then like five or
(23:49):
seven days later he went back out onto the detail
and kind of renegged and eventually omitted to the reporter
that we did have you know, statistically significant effects. And
you know, one day he hopes to have us on
as LinkedIn as someone you know that he's worked with
and so. But at that time the ship had sailed
(24:10):
and most of New Zealand had thought that we were,
you know, these people being misleading.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
What was the worst not having the writer reply or
having your your integrity impugned or it's.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Probably just being stuck in a rock and a hard place,
because we were like because the MPI had issued this
notice to say, hey, you can't make those statements about
your ingredients, you know, unless you do submitted health claim.
So we submitted a health claim now and are waiting
on the approval for that, and if we get it,
we'll be one of only you know, fourteen companies in
(24:45):
New Zealand that's got a health claim over the line
and the other thirteen you know, big multinationals were the
smallest company by far, but we didn't know what we
could or couldn't say. And I was so scared that
if we spoke truly about the science and you know,
really defended ourselves properly, that mp I would say, no,
you're even in more trouble and we're going to pull
(25:06):
the products off the shelves, which would have resulted in
even more of a revenue declined for US.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Wins, losses and the real stories behind our great companies.
Bosses Unfiltered with Kerry woodhem on iHeartRadio powered by News TALKSB.
The big lessons from New Zealand's youngest and oldest entrepreneurs.
Bosses Unfiltered with Kerry woodhem on iHeartRadio powered by NEWSTALKSB.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
One of the things I found when because we advertise
a fish oil as part of the natural nutrients on
the show, and a study came out saying it didn't work.
But the fisher Will capsules didn't work. It was just purely,
you know, a placebo, and people of their own volition.
It came on the news and people of their own
(25:54):
volition rang in and said, well it might be, but
I find that my knees are so much better when
I take it. We've got a whole host of callers
that rang in without prompting yes to say that for
them it worked. A couple of days later they came
and said, oh, okay, we weren't comparing apples with apples.
They've done the science wrong. It was all about the headline.
But we'd had customers that would jump in and said, actually,
(26:18):
for me, it works. Did you find that with your customers.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Or you too knew no?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
No.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
So we had a really loving and loyal consumer base
that genuinely feel the effects. And my mum has been
running our customer service for the last you know, since
we launched in twenty seventeen, and she's got this list
of thousands of customer testimonies of really interesting, cognitive concerned
(26:46):
consumers feeling a really noticeable felt effect with our products.
So that was the thing, the engine that kept us
going going. We think we've got a good product. The
science actually is true. You know, we're now starting to
talk to big multis globally about this science. We just
have to deal with this momento, this little issue that
we've got in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
But it's not really a little issue.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I mean you, I mean it follows us around. So with'
on Google when you search, there's still a misleading headline
from TV and ZED and if anyone's listening from TV
and Z, can you please remove it? Because when you
search us in Google, it comes up with something around
to say, I can't remember the exact language, but no
evidence found in clinical studies or you know. So people
(27:31):
when they look at us internationally they see this TVNZ
headline and it's damaging to us. And so that was
really tough not being able to have our voice during
that moment because we were so scared.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
And did you think about sewing?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, we thought about deformation, but we had already had
to defend our formula against two copycats, which had cost
quite a lot of legal resource. We were already filing
patents and international markets for the combination of our ingredients,
and we just thought, like we were just deflated, and
(28:08):
we thought, let's just you know, try and let's just
figure out a game plan of how we can you know,
fix this and then just you know, build and go
for the air.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
But it could have put you under, couldn't it.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
We Yeah, so we had to we had to do
an emergency capital raise. We we put in you know,
put in our own money to including investors, and to
keep the business going. We had to do homes on
the line, no thankfully, but and we had to do
a restructure, so we we laid off I think five
(28:45):
staff in total over that period. And yeah, it was
extremely brutal, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Did you ever think about burning the village to save it,
like letting go of the area name and bringing it
back in another form?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yeah, not really, I think we have. You know, we
our sales, although they dropped, we're still reasonably strong in
the category. And you know, we're still over the last
fifty two weeks, we're still the number one selling functional
chill drink and supermarkets like Woolworth's and haven't look at
(29:25):
the data recently for food stuffs, but you know we
constantly rack in the top five and that chilled drink section.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Would any distributors say, I don't want to stop you.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
No, the retailers were, okay, it's when there's a product recall,
which we've just had as well this year and are
cleared through. That's when they don't want to sell it
and rip it off, but they go is it? Is
it an ecal? And you go, no, what's the problem?
Then they just they carry on. But we lost a
huge amount of momentum, and we lost the trust of
(29:55):
a whole bunch of new consumers that we may have
been been able to attract, but were made aware of
us for the first time as this as this company
that you know, didn't have any science and yet it
was the complete opposite.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Well, how did like with that kind of pressure and
that kind of stress and that kind of like there's
nothing worse than being wrongly accused. How do you deal
with that? Did you take up running or karate or
scream into the void?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Or yeah, well I'm lucky I have a brain drink
company that supports my mental clarity and mood. But yeah,
certainly like really supporting family, really supporting investors, and really
supporting customers, and that those three things kept us going.
And yeah, I probably went for a few extra runs
and did some breath work in the shower and you know,
(30:43):
maybe to cry on the shower that night. But yeah,
we knew that the science was too strong and the
ip that was coming through and this molecule that we've
discovered in black current, which is our most exciting discovery yet,
which no one really knows about, is the thing that
kind of kept us going through that that period of time.
And so since since that storm in a teacup, it's
(31:07):
a bit more than that. Yeah, but like for us,
it's just kind of.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Rooster to feather dust. You were just amazing and then.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
You're then suddenly yeah, I know we and so we're like, okay,
what do we need to do to fix this? And
so from a we cleared our packaging problem that MPI
had with us, you know, as fast as we could.
They then dropped the the kind of the ruling that
we had to have the notificational website, so that went down.
(31:36):
We published three studies since then on our finished formula
or on our molecule and black current. We filed our
our health claim through the schedule.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
That ent through the proper channels, through the.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Proper channel, and it's our first health claim and we
plan to do more in time. But you know, at
this point and time, you know, the economy is tanking.
Our revenue and cash reserves are tanking, so we don't
have the budgets that these internationally owned you know, Big Soda,
Big Energy. During companies have to you know, blast the
entire nation with the message. We can barely afford to
(32:16):
do a campaign in Auckland alone, let alone nationally. So
it's been a rocky road to recovery. And then on
top of that, we've faced the doubling of the global
black current commodity price. And we think partly because of
COVID and you know, immune boosting foods, but partly because
of the research that we were publishing on black Current
(32:37):
increased the demand. We had a product recall two months
ago of the fault of our manufacturer, the same manufacturer
that does Carma, Coola and a whole range of New
Zealand owned beverages and and so we had product recalled
off the shelves. So it's been like probably our toughest
year to date, to be honest, Just when you.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Thought you were getting out of the the tough period,
it gets tougher.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
It gets tougher, you know. But we're not dead yet,
and we're never going to give up. And I think
the thing why not, Well, because when.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
You walk away and start a new product that doesn't
have the baggage and doesn't have the.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Well internationally, we're still you know, desired, So we had
an influencer from South Korea come in and suddenly our
capsules have got four hundred plus reviews online and South
Korea and we sell a large amount of our capsules
in that market.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Do you think you have to be a bit nuts
to be a successful entrepreneur exporter? I mean you have
to believe, don't you.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
You have to have blind optimism for sure.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
And that was Angus Brown from a Reaper talk about
dealing with adversity. I feel like you said nothing but trouble,
but he still manages to be optimistic. If you want
to hear more stories about what it's really like to
be a boss, make sure you check out our full
Bosses Unfiltered Serah is on iHeartRadio or wherever you get
your podcasts. Among others, there are conversations with Rod Duke
(34:06):
from Brisco's, Wendy Pie from Sunshine Books, and Roger Gray
from Ports of Auckland See soon
The big winds and the big losses, the hurdles, the pivots,
and the emotions, raw and honest New Zealand's great business
minds like you've never heard them before. This is Bosses
Unfiltered with Kerry Woodhem on iHeartRadio powered by Newstalk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It's hard enough to chase a scientific breakthrough, but as
my next guest found out, it's even harder and more
expensive to defend your breakthroughs time and time again. You
probably know a Reaper from the drinksyle at the supermarket.
Founded in twenty seventeen, the company behind the so called
brain drink was growing at a rapid pace when at
(00:40):
the end of twenty twenty three they hit a massive
speed bump. That's when the Ministry for Primary Industries and
an Auckland University scientist came out and said the company
hadn't actually proven better brain function at all. A Reaper
found itself in the headlines, but for all the wrong reasons.
Angus Brown is the co founder and co chief executive
(01:02):
of A Reaper. Now, this is a company that's had
a spectacular rise, and there was a hell of a
fall in the middle along. There wasn't there. So tell
me about the rise first, Let's start positively.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Sure, Yeah, how did it begin? How did it begin? So?
I so the idea kind of was inspired around I
had lost a friend to suicide at high school and
then went on to university quickly learnt about what you
put in your body is what you get out. You know,
often university students, you know, survive on two minute noodles
(01:36):
and beer. And notice that my cognitive function and mood,
you know, heavily degraded if I gave myself a poor diet.
And then my first job after university was selling an
energy drink, and I was really excited initially, but after
a period of time, I realized that I was just
(01:56):
selling you know, caffeine and sugar into mass New Zealand,
and I wanted to do something better. Two of my
grandparents had died within that first year of brain related concerns,
and so I started to think, well, you know, why
can't we make something that's natural that's good for you,
that doesn't contain caffeine, And could we work with a
(02:18):
neuroscientist to develop it so that when we put it
through a clinical study we could show that it actually
had a benefit to the brain and then if they
consumed that regularly, could have made their brain work better
and could your brain be healthier over the long term.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Which is a really attractive proposition to think that you
can take something that is going to make your brain healthier.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yeah, exactly, but it's quite it's rare, like you don't
you know, you don't often see that type of promise
in a food and it actually delivered that. And so
we were really trying to break the frontier of nutritional neuroscience.
And so I pitched the idea back to the energy
Drink Come and kind of got laughed out the door
(03:03):
really And then I came across the newly commissioned food
bowl back in the Stephen Joyce era and which was
owned and run by Callahan Innovation, and kind of knocked
on this thirty million dollar modular food factory and said, hey,
I've got this idea for a brain drink, you know,
(03:25):
could you guys help? And then so I was one
of the first of clients to use the facility, and
then a job came up and did you have to
pay for that? Yeah? It was quite expensive, probably about
four thousand for the day. And my friend and I
were pressing at the time blueberries and we were mixing
in pine bark and then we're putting it through this
(03:45):
really interesting processing technology called high pressure processing, and afterwards
the product came out like a jelly. We've created, you know,
four thousand dollars worth of blueberry pine bark tasting jelly
and it tasted horrible. Oh my, you know, goodness, But
we learned a little bit and probably the best thing
that came out of it was a job was going
(04:07):
there as business development manager and I thought, man, this
would be amazing place to work so I could learn
more about this whole world of food tech because I
have a background in finance and accounting, right, but I
found the whole world of fast moving consumer goods really
interesting because it was a perfect mix of both commerce,
marketing and science. And the science side of things really
(04:28):
interested me. And so for six years I worked at
the Food Bowl for New Zealand government, helping companies big
and small develop new high value food and beverage products
for local and export markets.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Well nursing the idea of your.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Own yeah, and they really encouraged the staff to develop
their own ideas and their own time and so that
you could actually, you know, walk the walk, rather than
just tell people how to do things without your own
true experience. And this idea just keeped bumbling away and
I keept kind of just doing my research. And then
we came across one of the world's top neuroscientists in
(05:08):
the field of nutritional neuroscience and that's based on published
research sited and he's in the top zero point zero
one percent of scientists in this field clinical nutrition. And
he was based in Australia, and I reached out to
him and said, Hey, I've got this idea for a
brain health drink. Could you help with the formulation. I
(05:29):
want to use at least one ingredient that's unique to
New Zealand. I want it to be cafeine free. I
want the combination of the ingredients to be synergistic. And
I wanted to improve aspects of mental performance and mood.
And ideally, if they consumed it regularly, we could make
their brain be healthier and work better of the long term.
(05:50):
Because the goal for our business is we want to
make brains work better through science backed nutrition, and if
we can push out a healthier brain for longer than
there's less economic burden later on life.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
And uh.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
You know this guy was his professor, Andrew Scoley, and
he's used to dealing with the Nesleys and the Union
Levers of this world. And you know it took a
while for him to be convinced that they should work
with Angus Brown from Hawk's Bay on this you know
novel idea.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
And then my business partner, his father part of the set, Robinson,
his father Daran Robinson from the Raycon family. They pitched
in the original Angel investment for us to commission this
world renown neuroscientist to develop this formula, and so it
contained this unique to New Zealand variety of black currents
(06:43):
we call neuroberry black currents. And I can talk more
about the interesting thing in them later. A pine bark
extract from New Zealand called in oginal uh and althenine,
which is a really popular amino sid found in green
tea there. It supports kind of attention and stress and
helps to counter the negative effects of caffeine.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
So in effect, you were looking for a recipe from.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Him, Yeah, a recipe backed by like really sound science
that we could then take to a university once we
had formulated it to then be the subject of a
clinical study and so you know, a few months later
and a very thick report, we got this amazing document
(07:29):
to talk us about to talk through that sorry, that
talked through all of the science of our ingredients and
the synergy potential, and so that was really cool. My
co founder and I he at the time was in
the UK, and I was just doing this part time.
And then and he comes from an industrial design background
(07:50):
and so I was learning food tech. So I was
kind of working on the inside and he was working
on the outside of the bottle. And then we had
and like before foot, but before we had and this
is important for when we talk about the low moment,
before we had approached that neuroscientist, we had worked with
(08:11):
a local scientist on a separate formula and we didn't
see a result and it didn't contain our Neurowberry black current,
and so we kind of parked that scientist, doctor nik Gant,
and then looked at, Okay, how can a formula work
and what does need to have And so our attention
(08:31):
then turned because a recent publication to come out around
New Zealand Black Current, and so we started to use
that as our key ingredient. And then we approached our
new professor Skolely to help us worth optimizing that formula.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
And so the old recipe didn't have the black currents.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
You correct and yeah, like different ingredients, and so we
chipped around this idea when you first gave us the
report and we bought all the ingredients and we put
into a bottle and added water. We almost sped it
back out again because you know, it's got pine bark
in there, which tastes like park but we threw clever
natural flavors and working with our ingredient suppliers, and this
(09:11):
pine bark extrac company is from New Zealand and they've
now invested in US. And then the Black Currents come
from New Zealand and one of the largest grows in
the country has invested in US. So we were started
to become vertically integrated with our supply chain, which is
really cool. And then once we got the flavor right,
we took it back out to the the academic world
(09:32):
and said we want to study this. We think we've
got something. And then they said, well, if you wanted
to study a beverage, you need a placebo, and we thought,
oh man and so we but it had to be
a taste match placebo and a carb or hydrate match
placebo and a vitamin C match placebo. So it took
us a whole year just to make a placebo just
so we could go back to the science community and
(09:52):
say we're ready to be studied. You know, how much
is it going to cost? And so we got a
quote and then we use investment from the ingredient suppliers
and our existing angel investors to commit all that to
a clinical study.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
And how much was it? Because a lot of natural
vitamin suppliers and herbal extract people say that that's the
big turn off for them, as they just simply can't
get the money for the testing.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yeah, it's really really expensive. I would hate to think
how much we've spent on our clinical research to date,
but a clinical study would cost anywhere from eighty thousand
dollars to one and a half a million. But we
from the foundation of our business, we wanted to invest
more in the science upfront and whatever we could afward
(10:42):
later on marketing, because we think the science is more
defensible if we can actually show something right. So we
raise the money, did the first study and that was
at the University of Auckland with Associate Professor Andrea Brakhaus.
It was in twenty three healthy athletes and one a
(11:06):
day for seven days of our beverage resulted in a
statistically significant improvement in kind of reaction speed and accuracy
under fatigue. So we fatigued these athletes and we gave
them a Stroop test afterwards, and we found that the
accuracy accuracy score was improved. But then we learned that
(11:28):
under the food Code in New Zealand, we couldn't even
really talk about any of those results because you needed
to put it through. To do a health claim, you
need to do two clinical studies and have both the
same outcome at the same set as the same primary outcome,
and you kind of need to like duplicate it. And
(11:50):
as we're finding this out, we were kind of committing
to new research elsewhere because we were finding signals that
maybe this, if it works in athletes, maybe we should
look at their brand drive neutropic factor and take their
bloods and look at how they perform against you know,
kind of oxygen deprivation or pollution.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
The honor story of being in business, talking the wins
and the losses Bosses Unfiltered with Kerry woodhem On iHeartRadio
powered by News Talks EDB. What it's really like to
build a business in New Zealand. Bosses Unfiltered with Kerry
woodhem On iHeartRadio powered by News TALKSB.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Presumably you've got a finite line of funding, so there'd
be all sorts of amazing tests you could do if
you had unlimited money.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Yeah, correct, So you'd have to drill down.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Into the ones that we're going to be able to correct,
give you defensible claims.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Yeah. And so so that first study was kind of
like our breakout study. We got some good press for it.
We had the All Blacks reach out, and you know,
we've been supplying elite athletes from around the world and
elite teams since then.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
How did they hear about it?
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well, when you published the research and Black currents, you know,
the nutritional industry, nutritionist industry kind of all hears about it,
and the black the All Blacks nutritionists kind of you know,
we've got in touch.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
And so you didn't go knocking on doors. They came
to you saying we'd love to trial this.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
I think it was just both ways. I think yep,
the science stacks up. This is pretty interesting. Yeah, we'll
take a look. And yeah, we've been.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
There were there were great headlines at the time. I remember,
I've been buying it and.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
So and so we got into Pharaoh's, we got into
New Worlds, and then I went full time after that
left and you know, the New Zealand fod innovation. The
food Bawl guy has almost kicked me out, said you
need to go. This is you know, this is your thing.
And so yeah, we kind of our distribution and sales
continued to grow, and yeah, we went from we doubled
revenue year on year for I think like four consecutive years.
(13:57):
And then at the peak before this whole the snaffoo
and then the economy, we were the eighth fastest growing
company by Deloitte Fast fifty and then the fastest FMCG
company and I think yeah, and so we were hitting
roughly just on a ten million revenue.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
So that's good. Yeah, so you're feeling positive, you're doing
feeling good in the world, you're making money, you're paying
back your investors.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Yep, and we're funding you know, at this point in time,
a considerable amount of studies across University of Auckland and
Plant food Research. We had launched into Australia and you know,
we're kind of hitting three thousand outlets. Steven Adams invested
in us, the two of the x CEOs of Zesbury
(14:46):
invested in us. The founder of Convetera.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Everyone wants a pie.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
And these guys are like my heroes, especially, you know,
the Conveter and Zesbury. They've built big international businesses around
high value New Zealand food ip and that's what we
wanted to replicate in the brain fruit space. And you
were yeah, and we still are. And then and then
(15:13):
we launched and then our second study was published. And
these were kind of just getting published as when they
were being completed and submitted to the journal, so we
didn't really have a structured timing on when now we've
got we've had nine or ten kind of underway, and
we've published sex now and we've got a fu more
in the pipeline of this clinical research. And we had
(15:38):
one study come through and the scientists were saying, yeah,
we boosted. We tested your formula on elite cyclists and
being Exposed to pollution was at University of Auckland and
we found that those on ard Eppa versus the placebo
after seven days consumption had a higher VO two max
(16:00):
reduce cough symptoms, and we could shave twenty seconds off
their four kilometer cycle time trial. And so we as
a co founder and I saw this, well, oh this
is awesome, and then we kind of you know, drafted
up our pr plan and then launched. And then suddenly
and then we started to We hired a young neuroscientist
(16:21):
and we were we grew like twenty three staff and.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
From the two of you to twenty three. Yeah, and
how many years.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Oh this is over this like four year period, but
you know, the first three years there were five of
us and then so we had this team and so
we were like we were running really quickly, and I
think there were we hired a young neuroscientists and a
young marketing team, and then they were starting to talk
about the published research on our ingredients and our published
(16:51):
research on our website. And I think that became, you know,
the attraction of our competitor to complain to the MPI
that hey, these guys can't say this because as per
the ruling, to do health claims you have to do
you have to file it through a systematic review and
(17:12):
the schedule, so and we didn't really have a clear
and it's still not clear because people are still different,
companies are still saying different things around and it has
been clear, but whether it's regulated or not, whether you
can actually communicate your published research to your consumers. And
(17:33):
one piece of feedback we got during the it's called
the snaffoo, was that we weren't even allowed to have
the link to our own published study on our own
product that they can pick up in the supermarket on
the website because according to MPI at the time, that
was considered a health claim. But our minds were like,
(17:54):
we've published this piece of research, shouldn't and it's publicly available,
shouldn't we be able to communicate we found there. But
I'm happy with how the strict ruling is in New
Zealand because it raises the bar compared to say, the States.
But what we're struggling with right now is that American
competitors with non compliant packaging are coming into the New
(18:14):
Zealand market and we're not seeing much kind of pushback
on those.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Tell me about the snaffo.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
So we had so we had a journalist come knocking
on our door to say, hey, we hear that you're
going to get a letter from MPI. Zone and Zack
and I going, you know what, letter from MPI. We
don't really know what's going on here. And then we
had MPI touch base us, say we're going to issue
(18:42):
you a notification. It turns out whole bunch of competitors
had complained about our science communication, which I met at
the time, looking back, was probably a bit bullish and
a bit confident, but we were being true to the
published evidence out there on the ingredients that we were using,
or on the on the research that we were publishing
(19:04):
on our finished formula. And so we had MPI come
down like quite heavy handedly on and having and we
had to put a notification on our website that the
claims that we were making around our ingredients were unsubstantiated.
(19:26):
And we knew that we like the science was telling
us that, but we hadn't filed that information through their
preferred schedule in their preferred format. So we got this
notification from MPI that we were making claims that we
shouldn't have. And then it came down to the They
(19:48):
were most worried about the packaging and we then updated
the packaging and the only update that's noticeable to the
consumer was a little wee plus on the front of
our packaging next to the word brain drink and making
it clear that it was related to at the time
vitamin C, even though we ruled out vitamin C and
our clinical research. Two days later, an article came out
(20:14):
from the Herald that we were making we were misleading
consumers and we had misleading claims, and then you know,
we suddenly I had one news turning up on our doorstep.
And then that night we were on primetime News and
there was a whole piece on us that was already
prepped that had in the and TVNZ it had brought
(20:37):
in an ex quote unquote expert scientist to comment, and
they chose the scientists that we had worked with on
our old formula that didn't work to comment on our research,
and he was not aware of what we had coming
in the pipeline through University of Auckland around primarily around
(21:02):
this next study which is pretty game changing where one
a day of our performance drink for twenty eight days
and thirty eight healthy females result in a thirty three
percent improvement and working memory and a twenty odd percent
improvement in mood. He thought that we were marketing the
(21:23):
product that we tested with him that didn't contain the
black current and didn't contain the bioactives that we had
in market, and so he gave us a lashing and
we never got our right of reply live. So the
whole world, well all of New Zealand got introduced to
us on primetime television as the drink that wasn't backed
(21:46):
by science and was making unsubstantiated health claims. Yet we
are still the only beverage in supermarkets that has clinical
research on it that's per reviewed and published.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
That must have been devastating.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, it was. It was. It's haf We lost about
two million dollars worth of revenue that forecasted year because
of you know, most of New Zealand being introduced us
for the first time as this like snake oil marketer.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I was talking to a colleague who said, why are
you still at work because normally I'm off early. Yes,
after my show, and I said, I'm interviewing the founder
of Adepa Drinks. Oh, they're the ones that got into trouble.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yeah that so everyone thinks that we're like these naughty
kids that you know, got into trouble when we don't.
We essentially don't work. And yet like we've got five patents,
we've got six human clinical studies showing statistically significant improvements
to my brain function, mood meant performance, biomarkers, neurotransmitters don't mean.
(22:46):
And yet it's really really hard for us to actually
be able to publicly communicate that because of how the
food codes is set with because no one's really done
this before and so.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
So were you sitting on the couch watching one news
unfold my two.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Year old two odd sons going daddy and it's just like, oh,
here you go, son, Like, here's your your dad on
TV for all the wrong reasons. And then it went
on and breakfast the next day. On the breakfast, the
same neuroscientist, Nick Gant again completely purpooed our science. We
never got any chance to also go on and rebut
or have our neuroscientists, you know, to talk about and
(23:27):
correct him on some of the false statements that he made,
and he did make false statements, and then we then
communicated to him through the University of Auckland, Hey, are
you aware that we have this, this, this, this, this,
and this in terms of the research that's either published
or coming through from a data read out perspective through
to peer review in publication. And then like five or
(23:49):
seven days later he went back out onto the detail
and kind of renegged and eventually omitted to the reporter
that we did have you know, statistically significant effects. And
you know, one day he hopes to have us on
as LinkedIn as someone you know that he's worked with
and so. But at that time the ship had sailed
(24:10):
and most of New Zealand had thought that we were,
you know, these people being misleading.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
What was the worst not having the writer reply or
having your your integrity impugned or it's.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Probably just being stuck in a rock and a hard place,
because we were like because the MPI had issued this
notice to say, hey, you can't make those statements about
your ingredients, you know, unless you do submitted health claim.
So we submitted a health claim now and are waiting
on the approval for that, and if we get it,
we'll be one of only you know, fourteen companies in
(24:45):
New Zealand that's got a health claim over the line
and the other thirteen you know, big multinationals were the
smallest company by far, but we didn't know what we
could or couldn't say. And I was so scared that
if we spoke truly about the science and you know,
really defended ourselves properly, that mp I would say, no,
you're even in more trouble and we're going to pull
(25:06):
the products off the shelves, which would have resulted in
even more of a revenue declined for US.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Wins, losses and the real stories behind our great companies.
Bosses Unfiltered with Kerry woodhem on iHeartRadio powered by News TALKSB.
The big lessons from New Zealand's youngest and oldest entrepreneurs.
Bosses Unfiltered with Kerry woodhem on iHeartRadio powered by NEWSTALKSB.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
One of the things I found when because we advertise
a fish oil as part of the natural nutrients on
the show, and a study came out saying it didn't work.
But the fisher Will capsules didn't work. It was just purely,
you know, a placebo, and people of their own volition.
It came on the news and people of their own
(25:54):
volition rang in and said, well it might be, but
I find that my knees are so much better when
I take it. We've got a whole host of callers
that rang in without prompting yes to say that for
them it worked. A couple of days later they came
and said, oh, okay, we weren't comparing apples with apples.
They've done the science wrong. It was all about the headline.
But we'd had customers that would jump in and said, actually,
(26:18):
for me, it works. Did you find that with your customers.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Or you too knew no?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
No.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
So we had a really loving and loyal consumer base
that genuinely feel the effects. And my mum has been
running our customer service for the last you know, since
we launched in twenty seventeen, and she's got this list
of thousands of customer testimonies of really interesting, cognitive concerned
(26:46):
consumers feeling a really noticeable felt effect with our products.
So that was the thing, the engine that kept us
going going. We think we've got a good product. The
science actually is true. You know, we're now starting to
talk to big multis globally about this science. We just
have to deal with this momento, this little issue that
we've got in New Zealand.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
But it's not really a little issue.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I mean you, I mean it follows us around. So with'
on Google when you search, there's still a misleading headline
from TV and ZED and if anyone's listening from TV
and Z, can you please remove it? Because when you
search us in Google, it comes up with something around
to say, I can't remember the exact language, but no
evidence found in clinical studies or you know. So people
(27:31):
when they look at us internationally they see this TVNZ
headline and it's damaging to us. And so that was
really tough not being able to have our voice during
that moment because we were so scared.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
And did you think about sewing?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, we thought about deformation, but we had already had
to defend our formula against two copycats, which had cost
quite a lot of legal resource. We were already filing
patents and international markets for the combination of our ingredients,
and we just thought, like we were just deflated, and
(28:08):
we thought, let's just you know, try and let's just
figure out a game plan of how we can you know,
fix this and then just you know, build and go
for the air.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
But it could have put you under, couldn't it.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
We Yeah, so we had to we had to do
an emergency capital raise. We we put in you know,
put in our own money to including investors, and to
keep the business going. We had to do homes on
the line, no thankfully, but and we had to do
a restructure, so we we laid off I think five
(28:45):
staff in total over that period. And yeah, it was
extremely brutal, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Did you ever think about burning the village to save it,
like letting go of the area name and bringing it
back in another form?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yeah, not really, I think we have. You know, we
our sales, although they dropped, we're still reasonably strong in
the category. And you know, we're still over the last
fifty two weeks, we're still the number one selling functional
chill drink and supermarkets like Woolworth's and haven't look at
(29:25):
the data recently for food stuffs, but you know we
constantly rack in the top five and that chilled drink section.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Would any distributors say, I don't want to stop you.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
No, the retailers were, okay, it's when there's a product recall,
which we've just had as well this year and are
cleared through. That's when they don't want to sell it
and rip it off, but they go is it? Is
it an ecal? And you go, no, what's the problem?
Then they just they carry on. But we lost a
huge amount of momentum, and we lost the trust of
(29:55):
a whole bunch of new consumers that we may have
been been able to attract, but were made aware of
us for the first time as this as this company
that you know, didn't have any science and yet it
was the complete opposite.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Well, how did like with that kind of pressure and
that kind of stress and that kind of like there's
nothing worse than being wrongly accused. How do you deal
with that? Did you take up running or karate or
scream into the void?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Or yeah, well I'm lucky I have a brain drink
company that supports my mental clarity and mood. But yeah,
certainly like really supporting family, really supporting investors, and really
supporting customers, and that those three things kept us going.
And yeah, I probably went for a few extra runs
and did some breath work in the shower and you know,
(30:43):
maybe to cry on the shower that night. But yeah,
we knew that the science was too strong and the
ip that was coming through and this molecule that we've
discovered in black current, which is our most exciting discovery yet,
which no one really knows about, is the thing that
kind of kept us going through that that period of time.
And so since since that storm in a teacup, it's
(31:07):
a bit more than that. Yeah, but like for us,
it's just kind of.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Rooster to feather dust. You were just amazing and then.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
You're then suddenly yeah, I know we and so we're like, okay,
what do we need to do to fix this? And
so from a we cleared our packaging problem that MPI
had with us, you know, as fast as we could.
They then dropped the the kind of the ruling that
we had to have the notificational website, so that went down.
(31:36):
We published three studies since then on our finished formula
or on our molecule and black current. We filed our
our health claim through the schedule.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
That ent through the proper channels, through the.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Proper channel, and it's our first health claim and we
plan to do more in time. But you know, at
this point and time, you know, the economy is tanking.
Our revenue and cash reserves are tanking, so we don't
have the budgets that these internationally owned you know, Big Soda,
Big Energy. During companies have to you know, blast the
entire nation with the message. We can barely afford to
(32:16):
do a campaign in Auckland alone, let alone nationally. So
it's been a rocky road to recovery. And then on
top of that, we've faced the doubling of the global
black current commodity price. And we think partly because of
COVID and you know, immune boosting foods, but partly because
of the research that we were publishing on black Current
(32:37):
increased the demand. We had a product recall two months
ago of the fault of our manufacturer, the same manufacturer
that does Carma, Coola and a whole range of New
Zealand owned beverages and and so we had product recalled
off the shelves. So it's been like probably our toughest
year to date, to be honest, Just when you.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Thought you were getting out of the the tough period,
it gets tougher.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
It gets tougher, you know. But we're not dead yet,
and we're never going to give up. And I think
the thing why not, Well, because when.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
You walk away and start a new product that doesn't
have the baggage and doesn't have the.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Well internationally, we're still you know, desired, So we had
an influencer from South Korea come in and suddenly our
capsules have got four hundred plus reviews online and South
Korea and we sell a large amount of our capsules
in that market.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Do you think you have to be a bit nuts
to be a successful entrepreneur exporter? I mean you have
to believe, don't you.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
You have to have blind optimism for sure.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
And that was Angus Brown from a Reaper talk about
dealing with adversity. I feel like you said nothing but trouble,
but he still manages to be optimistic. If you want
to hear more stories about what it's really like to
be a boss, make sure you check out our full
Bosses Unfiltered Serah is on iHeartRadio or wherever you get
your podcasts. Among others, there are conversations with Rod Duke
(34:06):
from Brisco's, Wendy Pie from Sunshine Books, and Roger Gray
from Ports of Auckland See soon
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