June 15, 2024 • 41 mins
What's anxiety and what is an anxiety disorder? Expert Dougal Sutherland joins the Weekend Collective to discuss whether stress and anxiety are pivotal to growth and maturity as a child.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
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it'd be.
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To say the first words, so you waiting, waiting, rest.
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Same glass.
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And times, and welcome back to the Weekend Collective on
tim Beverage. And by the way, if you've missed any
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Weekend Collective. Just to quick update the Chiefs and Chiefs
and Hurricanes as well. The Chiefs are up seventeen to seven.
(01:20):
I think they had a tried just allowed for a
yellow card, so it was looking like twenty two seven,
but of course then they've wound back the five points
off the board, so Chiefs seventeen, Hurricanes seven at the
twenty six minute mark. And I could have a rough
guess that my guest would like the has got the
TV on the background with the hurricanes he's been. You'll
(01:41):
be barracking for them at a rough guess because my
guest for the Parents Squad right now is from Umbrella
Well Being and his name is Dougal Sutherland Dogle.
Speaker 6 (01:50):
How are you going good a tim on? Well, yes, yes,
you're right. I've just got one eye, just half an
eye on the rugby.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
I hopefully it won't cause you any anxiety.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
I wouldn't say that, I know.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
I think your anxiety levels are up. See that's what
we want to talk about with you right now on
the Parent Squad. And don't worry, we'll keep you up
to date with any scores on the Rugby, so you
can stick with us eight hundred eighty ten eighty. But
the question around is stress and anxiety pivotal to growth
and maturity as a child and what levels of anxiety
(02:24):
should you know are okay? And what deth when would
you be worried about your child? So we want to
tell your cause. Actually, if you've got any questions for
Google on this as well, if you're concerned about one
of your kids with a level of anxiety or stress
and you want either just to get some advice about
what to do next or you maybe just want to
get some perspective on things. That's what this hour is for.
(02:45):
So we'd love to hear from you. The number is
eight hundred eighty ten eighty and text nine two nine two.
So doogle stress and anxiety with kids. I would imagine
that this generation, including me of course from a parent,
we are more concerned with anxiety than any previous generation
(03:10):
of parents. I'm just throwing that out there because there's
nothing like a good generalization to throw it at our
guess for them to tell me how wrong I am.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
No, I'd agree, well, certainly, and you know, I don't
know if they've been keeping records of it for particularly long,
but it certainly seems like we are more aware of
and alert to and responding to anxiety than previous generations.
And look, I think if we view it in context,
if we think about anxiety being a normal emotion, so
(03:40):
I'm talking about sort of normal anxiety versus sort of
clinical disorders, then I think it's really useful for our
kids to be aware of and learn about a whole
range of different emotions because they're going to experience them
as in their life as they grow up. Because they're
human and who better to teach them than their parents
(04:03):
about that your parents are human, that they have emotions,
they have ups and they have downs, they have highs
and they have lows, and it's useful for it's probably
useful for kids to see those modeled for them that
so that when they experience them, they know that it's
not unusual and that it's it's okay. It's not pleasant,
(04:23):
but it's okay, and they've seen seen it dealt with
and it's been okay.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
Is that because I think there would have been older
generations as well who would have shielded kids from moments
of anxiety themselves as well, something's going wrong, so mom
and dad take them, you know, take themselves away, not
in front of the children's sort of thing. And arguing
is a different thing.
Speaker 6 (04:47):
But yeah, look, I think it's I think I think
there's I think it's a bit of both. I think
that you need to take into account the age of
the kids and the level of anxiety that you are
experiencing as an adult. And yeah, there are certainly many
many things that you do not want to talk about
(05:09):
and shouldn't really talk about in front of kids. But
letting kids know that you are worried about something or
that you're feeling unhappy as good. I think as long
as you don't cross the line into then making the
children the caregivers for the parents, because that can be
a very, very psychologically difficult thing for a child to do.
(05:33):
So there's a there's a balance. We don't want to
shield them completely, nor do we want to overwhelm them,
and that's going to depend on their child's age and
the parents level of distress. If a parent is uncontrollable
in their emotions and completely overwhelmed, then that's not great
for their kids to see. But it's good for kids
(05:54):
to know that, Hey, yep, dad's been worried about some things,
and you know that's why he's been a bit on edge.
My daughter said to me, I was worried about something
a few weeks ago. My daughter said to me, you know, okay,
you seem kind of a bit off. And I said, yeah,
I've just been worrying about a few things. And sorry,
it means I go into myself a bit and and
that was all and shit, that was so that was
That was.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
Good because I realized when I'm anxious about something, it
comes out I can be I'm less tolerant. I'm quite grumpy. Yeah, yeah,
you know, and I can probably be a bit of
an ass if I look back, but I'm actually quite
I think my girls will probably recognize it as well.
But I'm also quick to apologize. I think it was
(06:34):
a day when I really I had a good crack
at them, and they probably deserve to have it. Someone
have a crack at them, but I really will. I
got I was very I was angry, and I just
realized it was because of anxiety and something that was
bothered me. And I actually said to I actually said
to one of my daughters. I said, I'm really sorry,
you know, you know, I'm just worried about a few
(06:56):
there's a couple of things on my mind at the moment.
I shouldn't have and actually hopefully that that's just all right.
Speaker 6 (07:03):
I reckon so too. I reckon it's show. You know.
Obviously it didn't go over and you didn't give them
a whack or anything terrible like that, but I think
it shows that, Hey, look, we all have emotions and
they're not pleasant all the time. So we don't want
to shield our kids completely from those. We don't want
to expose them to the very harsh elements of it,
(07:23):
But as they're growing up, it's great for them to
know that their parents do have emotions. Many I've seen
many media adults who say, God, how do you know
about what emotions are? How do you know what to
respond to? And they've never learned. They've said, I've never
learned that of the kid, I never knew what anxiety was,
and so dealing with it as an adult has been
(07:45):
really hard for me. Somebody said, why don't they teach
the stuff in schools? This is good? Why don't they
teach emotions in schools? I said, I don't know. I'm
not in charge of education.
Speaker 5 (07:54):
But I'm not sure. I'm not sure that that's so
much the schools thing as just being a what you should.
I don't know. We tend to obviously, there are way
that schools can address issues that are going to cause
kids anxiety, like having them put in context why they
didn't do well at a particular test or and especially
(08:15):
dealing with bullying, which is horrendous. But I think this
is really the parents domain to really also do a
good job. Isn't it? What am I saying?
Speaker 6 (08:26):
It's hard, isn't it? I definitely think parents are. They're
you know, they're the role models. They're the people that
kids grow up with and look up to. They've definitely
got a role. Then I also go, yeah, but what
about those kids who don't have great role models? You know, what,
are we then consigning them to the trashet because you know,
because they're missing out because their parents aren't able to
(08:49):
do it for whatever reason. So maybe a bit of both,
But I definitely think parents have a role completely Why.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
I guess to me, I feel kids do live in
a more anxious world, and their world is more anxious.
There is more anxiety. Is that because we're more sensitive
to it? Or do you think that just the way
growing up as these days and social media and just
the amount I mean just the amount of information they
can get bombarded with, to me that that surely must
(09:20):
create more causes of stress and anxiety.
Speaker 6 (09:24):
Well, it's a sixty four thousand dollars question, I think,
and there isn't any And psychology kind of research has
debated this quite a bit as to it is there
more or do we just talk about it more? Or
is it a bit of both? And probably it's a
bit of both. I remember growing up though when I was,
you know, and we were worried about other things. We
were worried about, you know, we were worried about nuclear war.
(09:47):
You know, it's so and now young people are worried
about the state of the planet rightfully so about global warming,
and so I don't Sometimes it's easy to look back
and go, oh, we had a care fore childhood. I
look back on my childhood. It wasn't that care free,
and I was worried about things that my kids are
not worried about. And I'm glad you don't worry about that.
So it's easy to look back and go, oh, we
just had this perfect childhood. But there were lots of
(10:09):
things to worry about in the world when I was around.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
Well yeah, and actually, because often people say, oh, people
don't you know, don't know what stresses you should try
living through the you know, the London blitz or something.
But funny thing is, there is something about tangible threats
and problems to me. I think a lot of anxiety.
This is more about just general anxiety and not so
much kids, but it's about understanding what it is. So
(10:34):
for instance, I can worry about what if this X,
Y and Z, it happens, and the worrying about it
happening is bloody awful. And then suddenly X Y Z
happens and I'm okay because it's happened, and I just
swing into dealing with it. Yeah, is there something about yeah.
Speaker 6 (10:56):
That, Yeah, I'm the same. And I think the key
thing there is the uncertainty is that you just don't
don't know. So once the X, Y and Z has happened,
you've now got something concrete to deal with and you
can start solving the problem or dealing with it. I
think beforehand it's that I've got no control and I
feel like it's just completely uncertain, and your mind goes
(11:19):
haywire about all the potential you know, ramifications of that,
Oh what happens with this? Happens with that? So you
can go down a million different miles or different routes. Sorry,
But once it actually happens, it's much more concrete. You
can kick into problem solving. So we probably feel better
able to cope with it once it's happened, because it's
now clear we can focus on one thing and our
mind isn't sort of sparking off in a minute different.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
And also you open your eyes when and you you're
still alive, you're breathing, and you're you know what I mean,
you're yeah, because I think anxiety involves some and it's
just the way humans have evolved, I guess, but some
sense that your existence is a threat, your way of life.
You know, what if I can't pay the mortgage? What
if I And so we we do treat things as
(12:05):
part of that that we're.
Speaker 6 (12:06):
Yeah, no, absolutely, If you think about anxiety, we're activating
our fightal flight system and our brain, and that the
fightal flight system evolved to keep us alive. We're going
to fight something off that's going to kill us, or
we're going to flee from it. Now, there's a really
great saying by an American psychologist whose names escape me
just right now, who says, we've got stone age brains
(12:28):
in the twenty first century. So our brains still respond
to the idea of you know, even if it's something
major like losing your job, our brains respond to that
as if we were going to die, because that's our
part flight system.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
And that's where the anxiety kicks in. There, is it
because you don't actually have the saber to Oh god,
how often do we.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
Use that a saber tooth tiger.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
But I mean, actually, here's a quick question, is fight
or flight? Are we hardwired to do one or the
other or do we actually still have an element of choice?
So for instance, let's go stone Age. We've got somebody
of the same they threatened me, threatening me, maybe I'll fight.
But if if this sabertooth tiger appears, I still have
(13:11):
enough wherewithal to go, it's flight time.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
Yeah, look to make it, to make it even more complicated. Periodically,
it's flight, flight or freeze. We just don't often say freeze.
And what we know is that if people freeze so
they don't make a decision to fight or flight, flea
will fight. They the outcomes are often worse for them
because they felt helpless in the situation. So if you're
(13:38):
able to fight or flee, and sometimes that's a very reactive,
instinctual kind of response, you may not think about it
a great deal, But if you can do one of
those rather than freeze, the outcomes tend to be better.
People who freeze in a real anxiety provoking situation do
tend to have worse outcomes because they go, I was
just help I just froze I just couldn't do anything
(13:58):
about it.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
Oh see, I was wondering. I mean, this is getting
away from this is getting more into evolution and way
from parenting. But I've sometimes wondered if some people have
evolved with that freeze reaction, because that's how they did survive. So,
for instance, even maybe in a battle scene or something,
the person who stood still didn't attract any attention and survived.
Do you think is there any evolutionary sort of reason.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
I don't know if there's evolutionary my understanding, and I've
never tried this out, but you know, listeners may have
and they want to ring in if they've done this. Apparently,
if you're being charged by a bull or a rhinoceros,
the thing to do is freeze because they're not they
don't have very good but they can sense movement with
their so if you are stocked still then they can't
(14:41):
see you. I mean, possums do it, right, Possums you
play possum, they a dearecourt in the headlights. I'm not
sure if there's an evolutionary advantage. I think most of
the time you would think that it's actually better to
try and flee or fight and to be there. All
the changes in your body are consistent with that. You're
(15:01):
getting adrenaline rushing around, You're getting your heart rate up,
that's getting you ready to do something so freezing as as.
There may be one or two times where it's good,
but probably in general not the best.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
Yeah, I'll get Richard Dawkins on to have a chat
about that one.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
We have something to say.
Speaker 5 (15:17):
Actually, yeah, I wonder if he's got a moment in
his calendar. Hey, we want to hear from you. Are
you concerned about your child's stress or anxiety? And what
are you doing about? But if you've got a question
as to I mean, I think the question is as
well for most parents, it's like, of course everyone has
stress and anxiety. What's normal? What do you think would
be a normal form of stress or anxiety? So give
(15:38):
us a call Google Southerlanders with us. Here is from
Umbrella Well Being. What's the website again? Google Umbrella Umbrella
dot org, dot nz dot org dot Nzegyeah. It's twenty
two past five News Talk z B.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Man in your Julie Car.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Hy, Julie car.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Somewhere dark, Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. This is
the Parents squad. My guest is Google Sutherland from Umbrella
well Being, and we're talking about anxiety and when should
you be concerned about it with your child? So let's
throw that question straight to you, Google. When should you
a parent be concerned about their child's anxiety?
Speaker 6 (16:29):
I take usually a fairly pragmatic approach to that in
terms of a problems, not a problem until it's causing
a problem, And so you know, is it affecting arts
of life? Can they Are they having difficulty sleeping? Are
they having difficulty going places? Is it? Is it interfering
(16:50):
with life some somehow somewhere? Can they not eat properly?
Are they complaining of stomach aches or other physical kind
of signs and symptoms, Because it is a tricky call,
right if we're saying it called stomach aches, can you
know all sorts of sort of those what you call
somatic complaints. When I was young, I used to I've
(17:11):
got a history of anxiety and peaking at various times
when I was younger, it would definitely manifest as saw stomachs.
So I think anytime, yeah, and that's probably for me
a good indication of when does an expected level. I
think that's the other thing too, When am I worrying more?
(17:32):
When's the worry more than it really ought to be
or should be. Taking into account, kids have a different
view of the world than us, so they might worry
about things that we mightn't. But if it's usual for
kids to worry about that and get upset about that,
then that's okay. But it's where it's sort of more
than usual.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
I because I actually have a simple question. Sometimes the
clashes between siblings is adolescence, hits and all that sort
of stuff. Is that possibly also related just to anxiety
and they sort of take out their you know, they
just lose tolerance for a sibling who they might have
got on quite well with as when they were youngsters.
(18:09):
Is that a part of that?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Do you think?
Speaker 6 (18:11):
Look, it could be. There could be many explanations for that,
but I think you know, your example earlier was a
good one. When we get anxious, we often get grumpy
with the people who are closest to us. Not always,
and it can come out in different ways, but we do.
I think that's true with any kind of psychological issues,
is that often the people that are closest to it
(18:33):
tend to wear it more. You know, we tend to
we tend to be able to put on a reasonably
professional place when we go to work or when we
go to school or whatever. But when we get home,
all the constraints come off and we're a bit grumpy,
or we're a bit irritable, or we're a bit silent
or whatever. So it could be behind some sibling rivalry,
or wouldn't be behind all sibling kind of thing at least.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
Yeah, Actually, there's a couple of pennies dropping for me
just in terms of wondering whether you know what more
you can do to help your kids at the end
of the day when they get home and they need
to unpack, sometimes they don't necessarily want to talk, but
that I think there might be a few parents listening,
and I'm thinking the same thing. It's just taking some
time to, you know, say how is your day and
(19:18):
reassure them about things if there's anything that crops up.
And I think that's probably is that.
Speaker 6 (19:24):
Yeah. Look, I think I think giving kids that it's
you know, every parent will will will kind of know that,
you know, when you want to talk, when you think
it's a good time to talk to you kids about something,
it's almost usually never the right time because they'll roll
their eyes or so they don't want to talk about it.
But I think creating the space or an opportunity for
(19:44):
them to be able to talk about it at some point,
ideally not at bed time, remind themselves of what then
they ruminate on it at night, although it's hard because
often when we do the same as adults, right if
you're able to push aside the worries to the busyness
of the day and you can get into something else,
and then when everything else is stopped, you go to
(20:04):
be it at night, and then your brain starts up again.
So it's it's natural that kids would talk about it then,
but seeing if you can provide the opportunity for them
to be able to tell you stuff is really good
without pushing it. And that's so again a delicate balance.
If you push, push, push kids off and retract, retract, retract.
So I think, particularly as kids are getting older, I
(20:27):
always found my you know, my kids are a bit older,
late teens now, but I always found going for a
drive in the car was useful. It was sort of
enforced time together, especially if they were sitting in the
front seat. They didn't have to look at you, which
is another good thing because often it's a button team.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
I'm with you on that, yeah, and you get off
your bloody phone too. But if we're in the car,
no phones, and then I actually I think my I
found probably the best conversations I ever had with my
with my with my parents and with my dad. I
seem to remember just giving yourself that time. I remember
going for walk with them once and you didn't say
much for the first few minutes, and all of a
(21:04):
sudden we had this amazing conversation about all sorts of things.
I do wonder whether and this is not worth playing
the blame game, but we're not available to our kids
as much as previous generations in a way you'd get
you know, kids off and get home after school or something,
but we aren't as available. Is that a problem?
Speaker 6 (21:25):
I think so? I think you know, you've got to
make time for your kids. And look, I that is
that is super hard for working parents, not just working parents,
but any particularly working parents. If you were you know,
you're working long hours, we were working two jobs. When
do you find time? But really trying if you can,
(21:47):
and looking at what you're prioritizing in life. Maybe the
dishes can wait, maybe the you know, maybe the doing
the vacuuming or whatever, or the housework. Make maybe you
can wait just twenty minutes before you watch TV yourself,
just to create some space if you can.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
That's a really good reminder, I think to all parents, Yep,
got good stuff. Hey, let's let's go to a call here. Pete, Hello.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
You guys, Tim? Can I speak to your guest here?
Speaker 6 (22:18):
I am Pete. Hi.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
I just want to I've had consistently on the radio
talk big cases of their kids getting boyed, but I
seem to hear very few solutions on what the kids next.
He do you know practically? So, have you got any
answers from boring?
Speaker 6 (22:40):
Look a couple? Yeah. Funnily enough, there there are. There
are good sort of programs out there that you can
use with kids. They actually have found some researchers found
that sometimes the way kids behave at school tends to
attract more bullying attention. And so that's sometimes that's just
(23:03):
you know, if you sort of if you hunker down
like a small mouse, you're often more vulnerable than if
you walk around sort of a little bit more confidently.
So sometimes it's about the way that kids are. But
I guess my caution in saying that is that does
it almost feels a bit a little bit like blaming
(23:23):
the victim. It's like, oh, it's your fault, you're getting bullied,
therefore you should stop it. Actually, the people we should
be stopping is the bullies, not the kids that are
getting bullied. But there are probably a few tricks and
tips that kids who get bullied could maybe benefit from
just walking in a more confident way. Perhaps it can
(23:43):
sometimes help. But again, you know, it's the problem is
not with the person that's being bullied or the kids
that's being bullied. It's the kids that are doing the bullying,
and that that needs intervention by schools and adults around them.
I think, rather than trying to get the victims to
have to do anything different.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
Okay, because in my day telling on telling a teacher
was seen as being an excuse for more bullying. Are
we better at that now?
Speaker 6 (24:14):
I don't. I don't. I don't think so. I think
there's still that. I find it a very curious stance
in society. You know that that somehow it's a mark
of homradeship or loyalty. If you don't knack on somebody,
and I think it puts kids in a very difficult position.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
I think so it makes the kids feel weak that
they've had to tell them, you know what I mean there,
tells them that it's weak to tell to tell an adult.
Speaker 6 (24:40):
Yeah, yeah, look, I think I think really what we're
coming to is adults need to be alert to this
kind of stuff. Schools and schools are I'm not I'm
not putting anything putting schools down at all, but but
but this is this is an area where adults need
to be involved in intervening as much as possible, and
and also being realistic and that you know, bullying and
(25:02):
teething sadly is a part of I think growing up,
and I don't think it's a good part, and I
wouldn't encourage it obviously, but I think it's gone on
for a long time, and it's about how do we
make sure that that's a limited thing, and I think
adults around need to be taking the responsibility for monitoring that.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Okay, right, let's take some more calls, David.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Hi.
Speaker 7 (25:25):
Oh, I was just really wanting to touch on the
subject of parental alienation and you know, do they grow
out of it? Any damage that's been done once they
hit their teenage years or even their young adolescent years.
And I'm sure there's a few people listening that are
involved in this subject.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
What do you mean? Do you mean if parents have
been distant from their kids, their kids pass it on
and get.
Speaker 7 (25:49):
Over it, and one party prevents contact from the other
bad mouth the other.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
Yeah, that's a really tough one, and because it can
lead to kids having a different view of their parents,
or perhaps not a realistic view of you that's tainted
by one partner or the other. And I think it's
a really dangerous area to get into a parent's bad
mouth in one or the other, because often what can
(26:20):
what I've seen happen is that as kids grow up,
sure they might alienate one parent, and then as they've
become older, they realize that actually what they've learned isn't true,
and then that sort of has a bounce back on
the other parent who's told them that the mistruths. No,
I think it's a very you know, this is when
adults need to be adults and actually say we're going
(26:43):
to keep this sort of stuff from our kids as
much as we humanly can. We're not going to put
the other parent down. And I realize that that might
be really a hard thing for parents if they've been
in a highly conflictual situation with the other one. But
I think you're playing with fire if you start putting
the other parent down, because it can really come back
and bite you on the backside.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (27:02):
Thanks, I guess it's not.
Speaker 7 (27:04):
The question is that as a children age, is there
a chance of effectively a normalized relationship or returning to
a normalized relationship if there was one originally.
Speaker 6 (27:15):
Yeah, I think so, I think there can be. I
think I think adolescence teenage years are always or not always,
but a lot of the time or a time of
upset and tumult and difficulty, but that many most adolescents
come out the other end and can hopefully have a
(27:37):
relatively normal relationship with a parent, and probably as an
adult you can have a different understanding of what happened
to you as a teenager, And so I think it
is possible to reinstate that relationship, particularly if you've had
if you've got off to a good start and the
teenage years. You know, I'm sure most of us would
like to put at least part of our teenage years
(27:58):
behind us and think about how we responded to our parents.
So I think I think, yeah, I'm always optimistic about that.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
Thanks David, It's okay.
Speaker 6 (28:05):
Thanks.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Actually, that's why I mean. I remember my days of
studying family law, and I think it still is the
thing that the courts strive to and put at the
heart what's in the best interests of the child. And
the only thing I ever say to parents that if
you're sticking to your kids in the way is pawns,
you need to really stake a step back and ask
yourself is this really in the best interests of your children?
(28:27):
And usually if you're playing the game amusing your kids
as a pawn, the answer is this is not in
the best interests of your children. And that's if parents
could stop doing that, we might have a few less
less outcrimonious separations. I think just a comment from me,
they're doogle.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
No, I absolutely agree. I'm sure that some parents they
wouldn't think that they're doing anything wrong. No, I'm just
telling them how I'm just telling the kids how it
really is. I've just got to be honest with them.
I there I'd be thinking, No, you probably don't have
to be that honest, it's probably unhelpful and you and
involving kids in adult matters, and that is a really different,
(29:05):
a cool place for a child. They just don't understand it,
and they don't they're not psychologically and emotionally mature enough
to deal with it.
Speaker 5 (29:12):
Right, Let's get another called Mike good.
Speaker 8 (29:16):
Yeah, Hi, sorry, there's your name Google, that's it?
Speaker 6 (29:19):
Yep?
Speaker 8 (29:19):
Oh right, yeah, hi, yeah, yeah, I agree entirely. I
agree entirely with everything you said, just rings true about
fight and flight and survival mechanisms and psychology and things,
and just wanted to mention. I've got an example from
when I had left school. I'd finished seventh form in
(29:40):
the year after, I developed anxiety because I felt like
a lost soul, I didn't have good job prospects, I
felt insecure about the future. And the day I signed
up to go to university, it just lifted gone, just
like that, because I felt as I was engaged, going
to be engaged in something meaningful that was going to
(30:01):
add value to my life. And so yeah, the anxiety went.
So what I've learned after things like that is that
suffering and discomfort seems to tell me that something's wrong.
And it motivates me to go and get it fixed.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
Yeah, yeah, nice, Yeah, Yeah, I think I think it's
a it's a it's a good point, Mike that actually,
you know, your brain is trying to tell you something
if you're feeling uncomfortable. I think that the trick is,
of course, if you can't resolve that, like if you
can't control it, if you can't control the situation. But yeah, certainly,
I think you know your your situation is a good
(30:38):
example of when somebody is able to actively deal with
that and find some sort of solution to the problem,
it really can help them stop feeling anxious, and it
gives it helps them a feel a bit more in
control and that there's some sense of purpose in the world.
So it sounds good.
Speaker 8 (30:53):
And it's just just quickly. It's thankful that we've got
people like you around that they're able to assist us
getting through COPD.
Speaker 5 (31:02):
Nice one, Thanks mate, good thanks, Yeah, we do appreciate
Doogle very much. Hey Doogle, how did you cope with
I was just thinking about just we've only got a
couple of minutes left, but the you know, I worried
about nuclear war. All my friends did. This generation are
worried about the climate and things like that, and either
(31:24):
way it was a catastrophic fear. How do you do
you remember how you put that in context? Or because
I can't remember how I did, I just stuck my
head in the hat sand and when I'm off to
play rugby, I don't know district.
Speaker 6 (31:37):
Yeah, look, I think I did too. But I think
one of the differences perhaps between nuclear war and global
warming is that there was probably very little I could
do about nuclear war. You know, it seemed to be
USA versus Russia, and maybe if it happened in the
northern hemisphere we'd be okay down here. But actually, global warming,
(32:00):
there is something I can do about it. Although it
might be a small thing. And but and it could
have picked it. It will have pict us here in
New Zealand, doesn't It's not just in the northern hemisphere.
So I think, yeah, I think there's arguably a little
bit more to worry about for global warming perhaps than
there was a nuclear war. But but I agree with you.
(32:21):
I just I think I just just forgot about it.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
I don't think I could put it in that sophisticated context.
I just thought the world was over. But actually know
what I tell my kids about global warming and everything,
and forget the arguments we could get on, you know,
about what the right way to address it is. I
just tell them that that I think they're incredibly clever,
and there are millions of children like them who are clever,
and they are they're going to and we're gonna we
are a clever, inventive race and we'll sort it out.
Speaker 6 (32:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:48):
Yeah, so anyway, but just give them.
Speaker 6 (32:51):
I don't know, I think giving them I think important
for the kids, for kids to have hope. Yeah, yeah,
I think you're good.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
You Yeah, good stuff. Hey, if anyone wants to get
in touch with you with all the services you offer
the umbrella, dot org, dot en.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
Zeed, that's the one. Yep. Love, happy to chat to
you and see how we can have hi.
Speaker 5 (33:11):
By the way, you'll, oh, you're still not happy, You're
he's still got a level of anxiety. Google Sutherlanders because
at seventeen seven to the Chiefs looks like they're about
to take a shot at goal. At this forty four
minute mark, I did get a text from muzzgoing, God,
you're not having my anxiety with not enough updates term
So there we go. Anyway, Hey, thanks so much for
your time Google.
Speaker 6 (33:29):
Nice one, Tim, nice to speak, and thanks for having.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
Me on Excellent. There we go, go check out umbrella
dot org dot end Zed. We'll be back. We're going
to rap sport with Elijah a few who sports reporter
for News Talks. Will be joining us soon and of
course giving us a bit of a probably a bit
of a summary on what's going on in the rugby
as well and what the momentum of the game is,
because while I can see what the score at seventeen
seven is, I can't tell you if I have any
(33:53):
idea on whether that's looking like it's got a good
chance of being reversed, but certainly the chiefs on top
at forty five forty six minute mark. We'll be back
in just a moment. It is seventeen to six New Talk,
said Burn. Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim
(34:22):
Beverish that actually wraps the parents squad. But you know
what that means. When we wrap the parents Squad at
that magic time of day, it means that it is
thirteen minutes to six the Weekend Collective Sports Rap, Yes
it is, and joining us for the Sports Wrappers News
talks a B Sport reporter Elijah if you gooday mate,
how are you going good?
Speaker 9 (34:43):
Thanks sir.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
I'll just get a bit close to that, Mica, and
now give give us a rundown on what's going on
with the Chiefs and the Hurricanes.
Speaker 9 (34:51):
Well, right now it's twenty points to seven to the
Chiefs against the Hurricanes, big semi final that the winner
takes on the Blues next week. Still unsure about where
that venue will play, but it depends on what the
result is. But I think if you're watching the game,
you might be a little bit surprised at the Chiefs
maybe up by twenty points to seven. Personally, I'm not
as surprised. I feel like the Blues and the Canes
(35:11):
have sort of been taking all the attention and all
the headlines this season, but the Chiefs have kind of
just been there under the raidar I feel it. So
probably not as biggest surprise, but definitely interesting.
Speaker 5 (35:20):
So looking at the game right now, so the score
line suggests the Chiefs, you know, and well they have
scorewise dominant position. If you were watching the game without
looking at the scoreboard, is that how it also would
feel in terms of the Chiefs dominant.
Speaker 9 (35:34):
I'd say so. I think the Chiefs have sort of
caught the Canes off guard with that quick start. They
scored two tries from the opening six minutes and I
think that's quite easy to the flat to a crowd
down in Wellington. I don't think it's a sellout, but
it's close to it.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
But oh, you think they're all hoping for a home
a home final. The Hurricanes crowd they're just staying away
this week and.
Speaker 9 (35:53):
Well, they'll definitely be hoping. So I think they've had
enough disappointment with the Phoenix losing at home. I think
the Wellington fans would want the Canes to sort of
pull something out of the hat.
Speaker 5 (36:03):
Here have we have? We've seen anything from the Hurricanes
during the season which makes us think they can come
back from this.
Speaker 9 (36:09):
Well, they've been the top team all year.
Speaker 5 (36:11):
But in terms of trailing by a couple of.
Speaker 9 (36:14):
No, that's sort of the surprise. They're usually really good
at starting games, so I think them having to play
from behind is a bit of a new situation for them.
So this is kind of the adversity that the Hurricanes
will have to overcome.
Speaker 5 (36:26):
So what's who's your favorite team?
Speaker 9 (36:28):
Well, if I had to pick. I picked the Chiefs
just as why because as a as a Blues man,
if the Chiefs win, the game will be hosted at
Eden Park because the Blues are the highest qualifier after
the regular season. If the Hurricanes win in the final
will be down in Wellington. So I guess as a
Blue supporter you want I'd want the Chiefs to win.
Speaker 5 (36:47):
I don't mind you're nailing your colors to the mask.
They're a large and nothing to apologize there. Nice to see. Hey,
let's let's look ahead to the worry is what's what's
happening this evening.
Speaker 9 (36:55):
Yeah, so they're taking on the Storm Melbourne Storm tonight
at seven thirty at Mount Smart, A big game for them.
They're actually in the middle of a quite to lengthy
losing streak against the Storm. They haven't beaten them in
fifteen games, so the last time the Warriors beat the
Storm was back in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 5 (37:13):
That sounds to me like an equation for a Warrior's
victory though, because you know how we when we write
them off, it's like, oh, they're probably gonna like it
was the where they were on their losing streak and
they came back against a team who were number two
or three on the tail Panthersah, the Panthers, and I
was like, Oh, they're gonna lose that one, and what
the hell? So they can do it?
Speaker 9 (37:30):
They definitely can. They've shown this season they can overcome
the odds pretty much. All the most of their starters
are back. Shawn Johnson is back this evening, so that's
probably the big one. He was the only Warrior back
in twenty fifteen who was there when their last one,
so hopefully he can secure a win four for the Warriors.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Actually, let's look ahead to Let's look ahead to next week.
If it is Blues and Chiefs, I mean that would
be Actually, I'm sorry to all the Hurricanes supporters. I'm
not writing them off, but it's not looking good. But
I mean, you reckon, the Blues can do it.
Speaker 9 (38:03):
It will be close only because the last time the
two teams played, the Chiefs didn't have a full squad.
I'd say they had a few first choice players outs
and the Blues came away with the wind there. But
I'd say it would be much closer if it was
a final, I'd still say the Blues a wind bow boy,
a few.
Speaker 5 (38:19):
I'll tell you what the way that I mean the
Hurricanes they yeah, they just that they're not they got
quite right today, do they anyway? Hey, by the way,
just a quick question before we wrap it up. If
right now, during this game, we were to see a
pitch invader come on and do a couple of somersaults,
would you be in favor of them being tasted?
Speaker 4 (38:40):
No?
Speaker 9 (38:40):
I no, No, I wouldn't. Not in New Zealand at least. Okay,
I think New Zealand we're just used to seeing people
getting smashed and tackled.
Speaker 5 (38:48):
I think because I'm talking about the Cincinnati pitch invader.
Speaker 9 (38:51):
You saw that, Yeah, I saw that video. I think
that's more of a state side situation. Did you approve
of it there over there? Yes, but only because you
showed me the video and the guy that the backflip
and then couldn't yeah, couldn't struggle to run away tripped himself.
Speaker 5 (39:05):
No, he didn't trip it over. He got taser. That's
why he fell over.
Speaker 9 (39:08):
Oh well then he did. Well, he deserves it end
either way.
Speaker 5 (39:12):
Anyway, I just thought i'd throw that way.
Speaker 6 (39:13):
Oute.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
You got on your mate that is Elijah far of you,
and he's a sportsport for a News Talks he b
the update it's still unchanged. Fifty one minute mark. Chief
twenty Hurricanes seven. So a couple of converted tries. Well
Hurricanes could do it. Who knows, but I think the
match to who was it again? The Warriors versus tonight
the storm, the storm, that's the one. Okay, we we
(39:35):
wanted to catch that one as well. It is now,
Thanks Elijah, it is now eight minutes too. Sex News
Talks hed b.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
He looks different today.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
And welcome back to the Week in Collective. Hey, that
wraps the show up. Thank you so much for listening.
I really appreciate your company. We're back the same time tomorrow,
but don't forget you can check the podcast out for
the Week and Collective. Any of the hours will be
loaded shortly and you can go and have a listen
to all the our wonderful panel one roof radio show
and of course the parenting Squad there with Google Sutherland.
(40:10):
Tomorrow we've got of course, we'll have politics from three
to four for the For the Health Hub, we're joined
by Kyle MacDonald and have a chatted a little bit
about adulthood and diagnosing neuro divergence and ADHD and things
like that's been the media a bit lately. In our
own our own Darcy Watergrove had a piece in the
(40:31):
Herald about talking about his ADHD, which up to a
point I think is sort of like a bit of
a superparent some ways. We have a chat about that
with Kyle, among other things, and Harbor Asset Management join
us at five o'clock and we're going to have a
chat about the bond market and understanding what bonds are
and what we can expect for them, and how to
actually access bond markets as individual investors. That and more
(40:53):
when we are joined by Christa Lever from Harbor Asset
Management and after apart from that, up next it's in
My Day with Roman Travers and I actually remind did
tell me what we're going to talk about, but you
know what, I've completely forgotten. But guess what. You only
have to wait about five or six minutes and he'll
tell you of himself. So stick around for In My Day.
Thanks my producer, Joe Cogland. Look forward to your company
(41:14):
again same time tomorrow. Have a great evening.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
In your fish nets now you only get it in
your night dress. Just got it all the nauging.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk zed Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks,
it'd be.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
To say the first words, so you waiting, waiting, rest.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Same glass.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
And times, and welcome back to the Weekend Collective on
tim Beverage. And by the way, if you've missed any
of our previous hours, fascinating discussion with Hell and O
Sullivan ab that property and the slump and what are
the factors, who to blame and how to get out?
Speaker 5 (00:58):
When are we going to get out of it? Uh?
And also a panel with Mark Chrysler and Joe McCarroll
from three till four and check that out with Get
your Podcasts, and I suggest iHeartRadio just look for the
Weekend Collective. Just to quick update the Chiefs and Chiefs
and Hurricanes as well. The Chiefs are up seventeen to seven.
(01:20):
I think they had a tried just allowed for a
yellow card, so it was looking like twenty two seven,
but of course then they've wound back the five points
off the board, so Chiefs seventeen, Hurricanes seven at the
twenty six minute mark. And I could have a rough
guess that my guest would like the has got the
TV on the background with the hurricanes he's been. You'll
(01:41):
be barracking for them at a rough guess because my
guest for the Parents Squad right now is from Umbrella
Well Being and his name is Dougal Sutherland Dogle.
Speaker 6 (01:50):
How are you going good a tim on? Well, yes, yes,
you're right. I've just got one eye, just half an
eye on the rugby.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
I hopefully it won't cause you any anxiety.
Speaker 6 (02:01):
I wouldn't say that, I know.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
I think your anxiety levels are up. See that's what
we want to talk about with you right now on
the Parent Squad. And don't worry, we'll keep you up
to date with any scores on the Rugby, so you
can stick with us eight hundred eighty ten eighty. But
the question around is stress and anxiety pivotal to growth
and maturity as a child and what levels of anxiety
(02:24):
should you know are okay? And what deth when would
you be worried about your child? So we want to
tell your cause. Actually, if you've got any questions for
Google on this as well, if you're concerned about one
of your kids with a level of anxiety or stress
and you want either just to get some advice about
what to do next or you maybe just want to
get some perspective on things. That's what this hour is for.
(02:45):
So we'd love to hear from you. The number is
eight hundred eighty ten eighty and text nine two nine two.
So doogle stress and anxiety with kids. I would imagine
that this generation, including me of course from a parent,
we are more concerned with anxiety than any previous generation
(03:10):
of parents. I'm just throwing that out there because there's
nothing like a good generalization to throw it at our
guess for them to tell me how wrong I am.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
No, I'd agree, well, certainly, and you know, I don't
know if they've been keeping records of it for particularly long,
but it certainly seems like we are more aware of
and alert to and responding to anxiety than previous generations.
And look, I think if we view it in context,
if we think about anxiety being a normal emotion, so
(03:40):
I'm talking about sort of normal anxiety versus sort of
clinical disorders, then I think it's really useful for our
kids to be aware of and learn about a whole
range of different emotions because they're going to experience them
as in their life as they grow up. Because they're
human and who better to teach them than their parents
(04:03):
about that your parents are human, that they have emotions,
they have ups and they have downs, they have highs
and they have lows, and it's useful for it's probably
useful for kids to see those modeled for them that
so that when they experience them, they know that it's
not unusual and that it's it's okay. It's not pleasant,
(04:23):
but it's okay, and they've seen seen it dealt with
and it's been okay.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
Is that because I think there would have been older
generations as well who would have shielded kids from moments
of anxiety themselves as well, something's going wrong, so mom
and dad take them, you know, take themselves away, not
in front of the children's sort of thing. And arguing
is a different thing.
Speaker 6 (04:47):
But yeah, look, I think it's I think I think
there's I think it's a bit of both. I think
that you need to take into account the age of
the kids and the level of anxiety that you are
experiencing as an adult. And yeah, there are certainly many
many things that you do not want to talk about
(05:09):
and shouldn't really talk about in front of kids. But
letting kids know that you are worried about something or
that you're feeling unhappy as good. I think as long
as you don't cross the line into then making the
children the caregivers for the parents, because that can be
a very, very psychologically difficult thing for a child to do.
(05:33):
So there's a there's a balance. We don't want to
shield them completely, nor do we want to overwhelm them,
and that's going to depend on their child's age and
the parents level of distress. If a parent is uncontrollable
in their emotions and completely overwhelmed, then that's not great
for their kids to see. But it's good for kids
(05:54):
to know that, Hey, yep, dad's been worried about some things,
and you know that's why he's been a bit on edge.
My daughter said to me, I was worried about something
a few weeks ago. My daughter said to me, you know, okay,
you seem kind of a bit off. And I said, yeah,
I've just been worrying about a few things. And sorry,
it means I go into myself a bit and and
that was all and shit, that was so that was
That was.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
Good because I realized when I'm anxious about something, it
comes out I can be I'm less tolerant. I'm quite grumpy. Yeah, yeah,
you know, and I can probably be a bit of
an ass if I look back, but I'm actually quite
I think my girls will probably recognize it as well.
But I'm also quick to apologize. I think it was
(06:34):
a day when I really I had a good crack
at them, and they probably deserve to have it. Someone
have a crack at them, but I really will. I
got I was very I was angry, and I just
realized it was because of anxiety and something that was
bothered me. And I actually said to I actually said
to one of my daughters. I said, I'm really sorry,
you know, you know, I'm just worried about a few
(06:56):
there's a couple of things on my mind at the moment.
I shouldn't have and actually hopefully that that's just all right.
Speaker 6 (07:03):
I reckon so too. I reckon it's show. You know.
Obviously it didn't go over and you didn't give them
a whack or anything terrible like that, but I think
it shows that, Hey, look, we all have emotions and
they're not pleasant all the time. So we don't want
to shield our kids completely from those. We don't want
to expose them to the very harsh elements of it,
(07:23):
But as they're growing up, it's great for them to
know that their parents do have emotions. Many I've seen
many media adults who say, God, how do you know
about what emotions are? How do you know what to
respond to? And they've never learned. They've said, I've never
learned that of the kid, I never knew what anxiety was,
and so dealing with it as an adult has been
(07:45):
really hard for me. Somebody said, why don't they teach
the stuff in schools? This is good? Why don't they
teach emotions in schools? I said, I don't know. I'm
not in charge of education.
Speaker 5 (07:54):
But I'm not sure. I'm not sure that that's so
much the schools thing as just being a what you should.
I don't know. We tend to obviously, there are way
that schools can address issues that are going to cause
kids anxiety, like having them put in context why they
didn't do well at a particular test or and especially
(08:15):
dealing with bullying, which is horrendous. But I think this
is really the parents domain to really also do a
good job. Isn't it? What am I saying?
Speaker 6 (08:26):
It's hard, isn't it? I definitely think parents are. They're
you know, they're the role models. They're the people that
kids grow up with and look up to. They've definitely
got a role. Then I also go, yeah, but what
about those kids who don't have great role models? You know, what,
are we then consigning them to the trashet because you know,
because they're missing out because their parents aren't able to
(08:49):
do it for whatever reason. So maybe a bit of both,
But I definitely think parents have a role completely Why.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
I guess to me, I feel kids do live in
a more anxious world, and their world is more anxious.
There is more anxiety. Is that because we're more sensitive
to it? Or do you think that just the way
growing up as these days and social media and just
the amount I mean just the amount of information they
can get bombarded with, to me that that surely must
(09:20):
create more causes of stress and anxiety.
Speaker 6 (09:24):
Well, it's a sixty four thousand dollars question, I think,
and there isn't any And psychology kind of research has
debated this quite a bit as to it is there
more or do we just talk about it more? Or
is it a bit of both? And probably it's a
bit of both. I remember growing up though when I was,
you know, and we were worried about other things. We
were worried about, you know, we were worried about nuclear war.
(09:47):
You know, it's so and now young people are worried
about the state of the planet rightfully so about global warming,
and so I don't Sometimes it's easy to look back
and go, oh, we had a care fore childhood. I
look back on my childhood. It wasn't that care free,
and I was worried about things that my kids are
not worried about. And I'm glad you don't worry about that.
So it's easy to look back and go, oh, we
just had this perfect childhood. But there were lots of
(10:09):
things to worry about in the world when I was around.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
Well yeah, and actually, because often people say, oh, people
don't you know, don't know what stresses you should try
living through the you know, the London blitz or something.
But funny thing is, there is something about tangible threats
and problems to me. I think a lot of anxiety.
This is more about just general anxiety and not so
much kids, but it's about understanding what it is. So
(10:34):
for instance, I can worry about what if this X,
Y and Z, it happens, and the worrying about it
happening is bloody awful. And then suddenly X Y Z
happens and I'm okay because it's happened, and I just
swing into dealing with it. Yeah, is there something about yeah.
Speaker 6 (10:56):
That, Yeah, I'm the same. And I think the key
thing there is the uncertainty is that you just don't
don't know. So once the X, Y and Z has happened,
you've now got something concrete to deal with and you
can start solving the problem or dealing with it. I
think beforehand it's that I've got no control and I
feel like it's just completely uncertain, and your mind goes
(11:19):
haywire about all the potential you know, ramifications of that,
Oh what happens with this? Happens with that? So you
can go down a million different miles or different routes. Sorry,
But once it actually happens, it's much more concrete. You
can kick into problem solving. So we probably feel better
able to cope with it once it's happened, because it's
now clear we can focus on one thing and our
mind isn't sort of sparking off in a minute different.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
And also you open your eyes when and you you're
still alive, you're breathing, and you're you know what I mean,
you're yeah, because I think anxiety involves some and it's
just the way humans have evolved, I guess, but some
sense that your existence is a threat, your way of life.
You know, what if I can't pay the mortgage? What
if I And so we we do treat things as
(12:05):
part of that that we're.
Speaker 6 (12:06):
Yeah, no, absolutely, If you think about anxiety, we're activating
our fightal flight system and our brain, and that the
fightal flight system evolved to keep us alive. We're going
to fight something off that's going to kill us, or
we're going to flee from it. Now, there's a really
great saying by an American psychologist whose names escape me
just right now, who says, we've got stone age brains
(12:28):
in the twenty first century. So our brains still respond
to the idea of you know, even if it's something
major like losing your job, our brains respond to that
as if we were going to die, because that's our
part flight system.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
And that's where the anxiety kicks in. There, is it
because you don't actually have the saber to Oh god,
how often do we.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
Use that a saber tooth tiger.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
But I mean, actually, here's a quick question, is fight
or flight? Are we hardwired to do one or the
other or do we actually still have an element of choice?
So for instance, let's go stone Age. We've got somebody
of the same they threatened me, threatening me, maybe I'll fight.
But if if this sabertooth tiger appears, I still have
(13:11):
enough wherewithal to go, it's flight time.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
Yeah, look to make it, to make it even more complicated. Periodically,
it's flight, flight or freeze. We just don't often say freeze.
And what we know is that if people freeze so
they don't make a decision to fight or flight, flea
will fight. They the outcomes are often worse for them
because they felt helpless in the situation. So if you're
(13:38):
able to fight or flee, and sometimes that's a very reactive,
instinctual kind of response, you may not think about it
a great deal, But if you can do one of
those rather than freeze, the outcomes tend to be better.
People who freeze in a real anxiety provoking situation do
tend to have worse outcomes because they go, I was
just help I just froze I just couldn't do anything
(13:58):
about it.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
Oh see, I was wondering. I mean, this is getting
away from this is getting more into evolution and way
from parenting. But I've sometimes wondered if some people have
evolved with that freeze reaction, because that's how they did survive. So,
for instance, even maybe in a battle scene or something,
the person who stood still didn't attract any attention and survived.
Do you think is there any evolutionary sort of reason.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
I don't know if there's evolutionary my understanding, and I've
never tried this out, but you know, listeners may have
and they want to ring in if they've done this. Apparently,
if you're being charged by a bull or a rhinoceros,
the thing to do is freeze because they're not they
don't have very good but they can sense movement with
their so if you are stocked still then they can't
(14:41):
see you. I mean, possums do it, right, Possums you
play possum, they a dearecourt in the headlights. I'm not
sure if there's an evolutionary advantage. I think most of
the time you would think that it's actually better to
try and flee or fight and to be there. All
the changes in your body are consistent with that. You're
(15:01):
getting adrenaline rushing around, You're getting your heart rate up,
that's getting you ready to do something so freezing as as.
There may be one or two times where it's good,
but probably in general not the best.
Speaker 5 (15:13):
Yeah, I'll get Richard Dawkins on to have a chat
about that one.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
We have something to say.
Speaker 5 (15:17):
Actually, yeah, I wonder if he's got a moment in
his calendar. Hey, we want to hear from you. Are
you concerned about your child's stress or anxiety? And what
are you doing about? But if you've got a question
as to I mean, I think the question is as
well for most parents, it's like, of course everyone has
stress and anxiety. What's normal? What do you think would
be a normal form of stress or anxiety? So give
(15:38):
us a call Google Southerlanders with us. Here is from
Umbrella Well Being. What's the website again? Google Umbrella Umbrella
dot org, dot nz dot org dot Nzegyeah. It's twenty
two past five News Talk z B.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Man in your Julie Car.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Hy, Julie car.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Somewhere dark, Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. This is
the Parents squad. My guest is Google Sutherland from Umbrella
well Being, and we're talking about anxiety and when should
you be concerned about it with your child? So let's
throw that question straight to you, Google. When should you
a parent be concerned about their child's anxiety?
Speaker 6 (16:29):
I take usually a fairly pragmatic approach to that in
terms of a problems, not a problem until it's causing
a problem, And so you know, is it affecting arts
of life? Can they Are they having difficulty sleeping? Are
they having difficulty going places? Is it? Is it interfering
(16:50):
with life some somehow somewhere? Can they not eat properly?
Are they complaining of stomach aches or other physical kind
of signs and symptoms, Because it is a tricky call,
right if we're saying it called stomach aches, can you
know all sorts of sort of those what you call
somatic complaints. When I was young, I used to I've
(17:11):
got a history of anxiety and peaking at various times
when I was younger, it would definitely manifest as saw stomachs.
So I think anytime, yeah, and that's probably for me
a good indication of when does an expected level. I
think that's the other thing too, When am I worrying more?
(17:32):
When's the worry more than it really ought to be
or should be. Taking into account, kids have a different
view of the world than us, so they might worry
about things that we mightn't. But if it's usual for
kids to worry about that and get upset about that,
then that's okay. But it's where it's sort of more
than usual.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
I because I actually have a simple question. Sometimes the
clashes between siblings is adolescence, hits and all that sort
of stuff. Is that possibly also related just to anxiety
and they sort of take out their you know, they
just lose tolerance for a sibling who they might have
got on quite well with as when they were youngsters.
(18:09):
Is that a part of that?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Do you think?
Speaker 6 (18:11):
Look, it could be. There could be many explanations for that,
but I think you know, your example earlier was a
good one. When we get anxious, we often get grumpy
with the people who are closest to us. Not always,
and it can come out in different ways, but we do.
I think that's true with any kind of psychological issues,
is that often the people that are closest to it
(18:33):
tend to wear it more. You know, we tend to
we tend to be able to put on a reasonably
professional place when we go to work or when we
go to school or whatever. But when we get home,
all the constraints come off and we're a bit grumpy,
or we're a bit irritable, or we're a bit silent
or whatever. So it could be behind some sibling rivalry,
or wouldn't be behind all sibling kind of thing at least.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
Yeah, Actually, there's a couple of pennies dropping for me
just in terms of wondering whether you know what more
you can do to help your kids at the end
of the day when they get home and they need
to unpack, sometimes they don't necessarily want to talk, but
that I think there might be a few parents listening,
and I'm thinking the same thing. It's just taking some
time to, you know, say how is your day and
(19:18):
reassure them about things if there's anything that crops up.
And I think that's probably is that.
Speaker 6 (19:24):
Yeah. Look, I think I think giving kids that it's
you know, every parent will will will kind of know that,
you know, when you want to talk, when you think
it's a good time to talk to you kids about something,
it's almost usually never the right time because they'll roll
their eyes or so they don't want to talk about it.
But I think creating the space or an opportunity for
(19:44):
them to be able to talk about it at some point,
ideally not at bed time, remind themselves of what then
they ruminate on it at night, although it's hard because
often when we do the same as adults, right if
you're able to push aside the worries to the busyness
of the day and you can get into something else,
and then when everything else is stopped, you go to
(20:04):
be it at night, and then your brain starts up again.
So it's it's natural that kids would talk about it then,
but seeing if you can provide the opportunity for them
to be able to tell you stuff is really good
without pushing it. And that's so again a delicate balance.
If you push, push, push kids off and retract, retract, retract.
So I think, particularly as kids are getting older, I
(20:27):
always found my you know, my kids are a bit older,
late teens now, but I always found going for a
drive in the car was useful. It was sort of
enforced time together, especially if they were sitting in the
front seat. They didn't have to look at you, which
is another good thing because often it's a button team.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
I'm with you on that, yeah, and you get off
your bloody phone too. But if we're in the car,
no phones, and then I actually I think my I
found probably the best conversations I ever had with my
with my with my parents and with my dad. I
seem to remember just giving yourself that time. I remember
going for walk with them once and you didn't say
much for the first few minutes, and all of a
(21:04):
sudden we had this amazing conversation about all sorts of things.
I do wonder whether and this is not worth playing
the blame game, but we're not available to our kids
as much as previous generations in a way you'd get
you know, kids off and get home after school or something,
but we aren't as available. Is that a problem?
Speaker 6 (21:25):
I think so? I think you know, you've got to
make time for your kids. And look, I that is
that is super hard for working parents, not just working parents,
but any particularly working parents. If you were you know,
you're working long hours, we were working two jobs. When
do you find time? But really trying if you can,
(21:47):
and looking at what you're prioritizing in life. Maybe the
dishes can wait, maybe the you know, maybe the doing
the vacuuming or whatever, or the housework. Make maybe you
can wait just twenty minutes before you watch TV yourself,
just to create some space if you can.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
That's a really good reminder, I think to all parents, Yep,
got good stuff. Hey, let's let's go to a call here. Pete, Hello.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
You guys, Tim? Can I speak to your guest here?
Speaker 6 (22:18):
I am Pete. Hi.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
I just want to I've had consistently on the radio
talk big cases of their kids getting boyed, but I
seem to hear very few solutions on what the kids next.
He do you know practically? So, have you got any
answers from boring?
Speaker 6 (22:40):
Look a couple? Yeah. Funnily enough, there there are. There
are good sort of programs out there that you can
use with kids. They actually have found some researchers found
that sometimes the way kids behave at school tends to
attract more bullying attention. And so that's sometimes that's just
(23:03):
you know, if you sort of if you hunker down
like a small mouse, you're often more vulnerable than if
you walk around sort of a little bit more confidently.
So sometimes it's about the way that kids are. But
I guess my caution in saying that is that does
it almost feels a bit a little bit like blaming
(23:23):
the victim. It's like, oh, it's your fault, you're getting bullied,
therefore you should stop it. Actually, the people we should
be stopping is the bullies, not the kids that are
getting bullied. But there are probably a few tricks and
tips that kids who get bullied could maybe benefit from
just walking in a more confident way. Perhaps it can
(23:43):
sometimes help. But again, you know, it's the problem is
not with the person that's being bullied or the kids
that's being bullied. It's the kids that are doing the bullying,
and that that needs intervention by schools and adults around them.
I think, rather than trying to get the victims to
have to do anything different.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
Okay, because in my day telling on telling a teacher
was seen as being an excuse for more bullying. Are
we better at that now?
Speaker 6 (24:14):
I don't. I don't. I don't think so. I think
there's still that. I find it a very curious stance
in society. You know that that somehow it's a mark
of homradeship or loyalty. If you don't knack on somebody,
and I think it puts kids in a very difficult position.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
I think so it makes the kids feel weak that
they've had to tell them, you know what I mean there,
tells them that it's weak to tell to tell an adult.
Speaker 6 (24:40):
Yeah, yeah, look, I think I think really what we're
coming to is adults need to be alert to this
kind of stuff. Schools and schools are I'm not I'm
not putting anything putting schools down at all, but but
but this is this is an area where adults need
to be involved in intervening as much as possible, and
and also being realistic and that you know, bullying and
(25:02):
teething sadly is a part of I think growing up,
and I don't think it's a good part, and I
wouldn't encourage it obviously, but I think it's gone on
for a long time, and it's about how do we
make sure that that's a limited thing, and I think
adults around need to be taking the responsibility for monitoring that.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Okay, right, let's take some more calls, David.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Hi.
Speaker 7 (25:25):
Oh, I was just really wanting to touch on the
subject of parental alienation and you know, do they grow
out of it? Any damage that's been done once they
hit their teenage years or even their young adolescent years.
And I'm sure there's a few people listening that are
involved in this subject.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
What do you mean? Do you mean if parents have
been distant from their kids, their kids pass it on
and get.
Speaker 7 (25:49):
Over it, and one party prevents contact from the other
bad mouth the other.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
Yeah, that's a really tough one, and because it can
lead to kids having a different view of their parents,
or perhaps not a realistic view of you that's tainted
by one partner or the other. And I think it's
a really dangerous area to get into a parent's bad
mouth in one or the other, because often what can
(26:20):
what I've seen happen is that as kids grow up,
sure they might alienate one parent, and then as they've
become older, they realize that actually what they've learned isn't true,
and then that sort of has a bounce back on
the other parent who's told them that the mistruths. No,
I think it's a very you know, this is when
adults need to be adults and actually say we're going
(26:43):
to keep this sort of stuff from our kids as
much as we humanly can. We're not going to put
the other parent down. And I realize that that might
be really a hard thing for parents if they've been
in a highly conflictual situation with the other one. But
I think you're playing with fire if you start putting
the other parent down, because it can really come back
and bite you on the backside.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (27:02):
Thanks, I guess it's not.
Speaker 7 (27:04):
The question is that as a children age, is there
a chance of effectively a normalized relationship or returning to
a normalized relationship if there was one originally.
Speaker 6 (27:15):
Yeah, I think so, I think there can be. I
think I think adolescence teenage years are always or not always,
but a lot of the time or a time of
upset and tumult and difficulty, but that many most adolescents
come out the other end and can hopefully have a
(27:37):
relatively normal relationship with a parent, and probably as an
adult you can have a different understanding of what happened
to you as a teenager, And so I think it
is possible to reinstate that relationship, particularly if you've had
if you've got off to a good start and the
teenage years. You know, I'm sure most of us would
like to put at least part of our teenage years
(27:58):
behind us and think about how we responded to our parents.
So I think I think, yeah, I'm always optimistic about that.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
Thanks David, It's okay.
Speaker 6 (28:05):
Thanks.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Actually, that's why I mean. I remember my days of
studying family law, and I think it still is the
thing that the courts strive to and put at the
heart what's in the best interests of the child. And
the only thing I ever say to parents that if
you're sticking to your kids in the way is pawns,
you need to really stake a step back and ask
yourself is this really in the best interests of your children?
(28:27):
And usually if you're playing the game amusing your kids
as a pawn, the answer is this is not in
the best interests of your children. And that's if parents
could stop doing that, we might have a few less
less outcrimonious separations. I think just a comment from me,
they're doogle.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
No, I absolutely agree. I'm sure that some parents they
wouldn't think that they're doing anything wrong. No, I'm just
telling them how I'm just telling the kids how it
really is. I've just got to be honest with them.
I there I'd be thinking, No, you probably don't have
to be that honest, it's probably unhelpful and you and
involving kids in adult matters, and that is a really different,
(29:05):
a cool place for a child. They just don't understand it,
and they don't they're not psychologically and emotionally mature enough
to deal with it.
Speaker 5 (29:12):
Right, Let's get another called Mike good.
Speaker 8 (29:16):
Yeah, Hi, sorry, there's your name Google, that's it?
Speaker 6 (29:19):
Yep?
Speaker 8 (29:19):
Oh right, yeah, hi, yeah, yeah, I agree entirely. I
agree entirely with everything you said, just rings true about
fight and flight and survival mechanisms and psychology and things,
and just wanted to mention. I've got an example from
when I had left school. I'd finished seventh form in
(29:40):
the year after, I developed anxiety because I felt like
a lost soul, I didn't have good job prospects, I
felt insecure about the future. And the day I signed
up to go to university, it just lifted gone, just
like that, because I felt as I was engaged, going
to be engaged in something meaningful that was going to
(30:01):
add value to my life. And so yeah, the anxiety went.
So what I've learned after things like that is that
suffering and discomfort seems to tell me that something's wrong.
And it motivates me to go and get it fixed.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
Yeah, yeah, nice, Yeah, Yeah, I think I think it's
a it's a it's a good point, Mike that actually,
you know, your brain is trying to tell you something
if you're feeling uncomfortable. I think that the trick is,
of course, if you can't resolve that, like if you
can't control it, if you can't control the situation. But yeah, certainly,
I think you know your your situation is a good
(30:38):
example of when somebody is able to actively deal with
that and find some sort of solution to the problem,
it really can help them stop feeling anxious, and it
gives it helps them a feel a bit more in
control and that there's some sense of purpose in the world.
So it sounds good.
Speaker 8 (30:53):
And it's just just quickly. It's thankful that we've got
people like you around that they're able to assist us
getting through COPD.
Speaker 5 (31:02):
Nice one, Thanks mate, good thanks, Yeah, we do appreciate
Doogle very much. Hey Doogle, how did you cope with
I was just thinking about just we've only got a
couple of minutes left, but the you know, I worried
about nuclear war. All my friends did. This generation are
worried about the climate and things like that, and either
(31:24):
way it was a catastrophic fear. How do you do
you remember how you put that in context? Or because
I can't remember how I did, I just stuck my
head in the hat sand and when I'm off to
play rugby, I don't know district.
Speaker 6 (31:37):
Yeah, look, I think I did too. But I think
one of the differences perhaps between nuclear war and global
warming is that there was probably very little I could
do about nuclear war. You know, it seemed to be
USA versus Russia, and maybe if it happened in the
northern hemisphere we'd be okay down here. But actually, global warming,
(32:00):
there is something I can do about it. Although it
might be a small thing. And but and it could
have picked it. It will have pict us here in
New Zealand, doesn't It's not just in the northern hemisphere.
So I think, yeah, I think there's arguably a little
bit more to worry about for global warming perhaps than
there was a nuclear war. But but I agree with you.
(32:21):
I just I think I just just forgot about it.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
I don't think I could put it in that sophisticated context.
I just thought the world was over. But actually know
what I tell my kids about global warming and everything,
and forget the arguments we could get on, you know,
about what the right way to address it is. I
just tell them that that I think they're incredibly clever,
and there are millions of children like them who are clever,
and they are they're going to and we're gonna we
are a clever, inventive race and we'll sort it out.
Speaker 6 (32:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:48):
Yeah, so anyway, but just give them.
Speaker 6 (32:51):
I don't know, I think giving them I think important
for the kids, for kids to have hope. Yeah, yeah,
I think you're good.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
You Yeah, good stuff. Hey, if anyone wants to get
in touch with you with all the services you offer
the umbrella, dot org, dot en.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
Zeed, that's the one. Yep. Love, happy to chat to
you and see how we can have hi.
Speaker 5 (33:11):
By the way, you'll, oh, you're still not happy, You're
he's still got a level of anxiety. Google Sutherlanders because
at seventeen seven to the Chiefs looks like they're about
to take a shot at goal. At this forty four
minute mark, I did get a text from muzzgoing, God,
you're not having my anxiety with not enough updates term
So there we go. Anyway, Hey, thanks so much for
your time Google.
Speaker 6 (33:29):
Nice one, Tim, nice to speak, and thanks for having.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
Me on Excellent. There we go, go check out umbrella
dot org dot end Zed. We'll be back. We're going
to rap sport with Elijah a few who sports reporter
for News Talks. Will be joining us soon and of
course giving us a bit of a probably a bit
of a summary on what's going on in the rugby
as well and what the momentum of the game is,
because while I can see what the score at seventeen
seven is, I can't tell you if I have any
(33:53):
idea on whether that's looking like it's got a good
chance of being reversed, but certainly the chiefs on top
at forty five forty six minute mark. We'll be back
in just a moment. It is seventeen to six New Talk,
said Burn. Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim
(34:22):
Beverish that actually wraps the parents squad. But you know
what that means. When we wrap the parents Squad at
that magic time of day, it means that it is
thirteen minutes to six the Weekend Collective Sports Rap, Yes
it is, and joining us for the Sports Wrappers News
talks a B Sport reporter Elijah if you gooday mate,
how are you going good?
Speaker 9 (34:43):
Thanks sir.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
I'll just get a bit close to that, Mica, and
now give give us a rundown on what's going on
with the Chiefs and the Hurricanes.
Speaker 9 (34:51):
Well, right now it's twenty points to seven to the
Chiefs against the Hurricanes, big semi final that the winner
takes on the Blues next week. Still unsure about where
that venue will play, but it depends on what the
result is. But I think if you're watching the game,
you might be a little bit surprised at the Chiefs
maybe up by twenty points to seven. Personally, I'm not
as surprised. I feel like the Blues and the Canes
(35:11):
have sort of been taking all the attention and all
the headlines this season, but the Chiefs have kind of
just been there under the raidar I feel it. So
probably not as biggest surprise, but definitely interesting.
Speaker 5 (35:20):
So looking at the game right now, so the score
line suggests the Chiefs, you know, and well they have
scorewise dominant position. If you were watching the game without
looking at the scoreboard, is that how it also would
feel in terms of the Chiefs dominant.
Speaker 9 (35:34):
I'd say so. I think the Chiefs have sort of
caught the Canes off guard with that quick start. They
scored two tries from the opening six minutes and I
think that's quite easy to the flat to a crowd
down in Wellington. I don't think it's a sellout, but
it's close to it.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
But oh, you think they're all hoping for a home
a home final. The Hurricanes crowd they're just staying away
this week and.
Speaker 9 (35:53):
Well, they'll definitely be hoping. So I think they've had
enough disappointment with the Phoenix losing at home. I think
the Wellington fans would want the Canes to sort of
pull something out of the hat.
Speaker 5 (36:03):
Here have we have? We've seen anything from the Hurricanes
during the season which makes us think they can come
back from this.
Speaker 9 (36:09):
Well, they've been the top team all year.
Speaker 5 (36:11):
But in terms of trailing by a couple of.
Speaker 9 (36:14):
No, that's sort of the surprise. They're usually really good
at starting games, so I think them having to play
from behind is a bit of a new situation for them.
So this is kind of the adversity that the Hurricanes
will have to overcome.
Speaker 5 (36:26):
So what's who's your favorite team?
Speaker 9 (36:28):
Well, if I had to pick. I picked the Chiefs
just as why because as a as a Blues man,
if the Chiefs win, the game will be hosted at
Eden Park because the Blues are the highest qualifier after
the regular season. If the Hurricanes win in the final
will be down in Wellington. So I guess as a
Blue supporter you want I'd want the Chiefs to win.
Speaker 5 (36:47):
I don't mind you're nailing your colors to the mask.
They're a large and nothing to apologize there. Nice to see. Hey,
let's let's look ahead to the worry is what's what's
happening this evening.
Speaker 9 (36:55):
Yeah, so they're taking on the Storm Melbourne Storm tonight
at seven thirty at Mount Smart, A big game for them.
They're actually in the middle of a quite to lengthy
losing streak against the Storm. They haven't beaten them in
fifteen games, so the last time the Warriors beat the
Storm was back in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 5 (37:13):
That sounds to me like an equation for a Warrior's
victory though, because you know how we when we write
them off, it's like, oh, they're probably gonna like it
was the where they were on their losing streak and
they came back against a team who were number two
or three on the tail Panthersah, the Panthers, and I
was like, Oh, they're gonna lose that one, and what
the hell? So they can do it?
Speaker 9 (37:30):
They definitely can. They've shown this season they can overcome
the odds pretty much. All the most of their starters
are back. Shawn Johnson is back this evening, so that's
probably the big one. He was the only Warrior back
in twenty fifteen who was there when their last one,
so hopefully he can secure a win four for the Warriors.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Actually, let's look ahead to Let's look ahead to next week.
If it is Blues and Chiefs, I mean that would
be Actually, I'm sorry to all the Hurricanes supporters. I'm
not writing them off, but it's not looking good. But
I mean, you reckon, the Blues can do it.
Speaker 9 (38:03):
It will be close only because the last time the
two teams played, the Chiefs didn't have a full squad.
I'd say they had a few first choice players outs
and the Blues came away with the wind there. But
I'd say it would be much closer if it was
a final, I'd still say the Blues a wind bow boy,
a few.
Speaker 5 (38:19):
I'll tell you what the way that I mean the
Hurricanes they yeah, they just that they're not they got
quite right today, do they anyway? Hey, by the way,
just a quick question before we wrap it up. If
right now, during this game, we were to see a
pitch invader come on and do a couple of somersaults,
would you be in favor of them being tasted?
Speaker 4 (38:40):
No?
Speaker 9 (38:40):
I no, No, I wouldn't. Not in New Zealand at least. Okay,
I think New Zealand we're just used to seeing people
getting smashed and tackled.
Speaker 5 (38:48):
I think because I'm talking about the Cincinnati pitch invader.
Speaker 9 (38:51):
You saw that, Yeah, I saw that video. I think
that's more of a state side situation. Did you approve
of it there over there? Yes, but only because you
showed me the video and the guy that the backflip
and then couldn't yeah, couldn't struggle to run away tripped himself.
Speaker 5 (39:05):
No, he didn't trip it over. He got taser. That's
why he fell over.
Speaker 9 (39:08):
Oh well then he did. Well, he deserves it end
either way.
Speaker 5 (39:12):
Anyway, I just thought i'd throw that way.
Speaker 6 (39:13):
Oute.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
You got on your mate that is Elijah far of you,
and he's a sportsport for a News Talks he b
the update it's still unchanged. Fifty one minute mark. Chief
twenty Hurricanes seven. So a couple of converted tries. Well
Hurricanes could do it. Who knows, but I think the
match to who was it again? The Warriors versus tonight
the storm, the storm, that's the one. Okay, we we
(39:35):
wanted to catch that one as well. It is now,
Thanks Elijah, it is now eight minutes too. Sex News
Talks hed b.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
He looks different today.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
And welcome back to the Week in Collective. Hey, that
wraps the show up. Thank you so much for listening.
I really appreciate your company. We're back the same time tomorrow,
but don't forget you can check the podcast out for
the Week and Collective. Any of the hours will be
loaded shortly and you can go and have a listen
to all the our wonderful panel one roof radio show
and of course the parenting Squad there with Google Sutherland.
(40:10):
Tomorrow we've got of course, we'll have politics from three
to four for the For the Health Hub, we're joined
by Kyle MacDonald and have a chatted a little bit
about adulthood and diagnosing neuro divergence and ADHD and things
like that's been the media a bit lately. In our
own our own Darcy Watergrove had a piece in the
(40:31):
Herald about talking about his ADHD, which up to a
point I think is sort of like a bit of
a superparent some ways. We have a chat about that
with Kyle, among other things, and Harbor Asset Management join
us at five o'clock and we're going to have a
chat about the bond market and understanding what bonds are
and what we can expect for them, and how to
actually access bond markets as individual investors. That and more
(40:53):
when we are joined by Christa Lever from Harbor Asset
Management and after apart from that, up next it's in
My Day with Roman Travers and I actually remind did
tell me what we're going to talk about, but you
know what, I've completely forgotten. But guess what. You only
have to wait about five or six minutes and he'll
tell you of himself. So stick around for In My Day.
Thanks my producer, Joe Cogland. Look forward to your company
(41:14):
again same time tomorrow. Have a great evening.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
In your fish nets now you only get it in
your night dress. Just got it all the nauging.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk zed Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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