August 10, 2024 • 31 mins
What do you do when your child is picking school subjects? Do you step in when they want to drop core subjects?
Parenting expert John Cowan joins Tim Beveridge on The Weekend Collective to discuss this and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And welcome back to the show. This is the Weekend Collective.
I'm Tim Beverage and if you've missed any of the
previous house quite an interesting chat or not? What don't
mean quite an interesting chat? That's what we're hear for
interesting chats all the time. Fantastic panel with the Niva,
Retti Marno and car MacDonald and also the wonder If
Radio show with Astley Church. You missed any of it,
go check out your podcasts, look up the Weekend Collective
(00:30):
and I suggest suggest iHeartRadio. And now it's time for
the Parent Squad and joining me is well. He's no
strange to zedby or to this show as well, and
I don't think I need any other induction apart from
his name. It's John Cowan. John, Hello, how are you?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I'm doing very well?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Thanks excellent And where are you coming to us from today?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I'm down in christ Church. I'm down here visiting my
son and daughter in law and I love doing a
bit of Cantabrian hospitality.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hey, what's the vibe down there around the cathedral?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I haven't picked up whether or not that news that
they're not going to add any extra government money to
the rebuild. I haven't picked up any and nobody's mentioned
that at all. I should imagine they'd be a bit disappointed,
and yeah, who knows. Hey, I'm sure that's not a
story of it's over yet.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
No, no, hey, we want your cause. I on one
hundred ten and eight eight text nine nine two because well,
actually the reason I raised this topic myself and to
have a chat about is because it suddenly started to
hit our household is our kids asking, you know, they're
getting some choice with subjects now, and my oldest one
is and there was a careers evening that popped up
(01:44):
which we did pop along to but realized maybe it
was probably for kids who are a little bit older.
But the subject choice and all that, which actually I
just found it a bit. It triggered me a bit
more than I thought because my daughter expressed a few
things about what she thought she might want to do,
and I thought to myself one of them was in
the performance arts, and as a former performing artist, so
(02:07):
I was like, oh, God, don't do that. But you know,
I'm just being honest. I mean, think the career choices
are tough have in your history as a parent, history
as a parent, but also as someone who talks about parenting.
What advice can you give to your kids and what
(02:30):
advice and opinions should you avoid giving to your kids
on this stuff?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Okay, it's worth thinking what limits kids in their choices
later on, and very often it's their belief that they
can't do something or which often looks like laziness. Oh,
I don't want to do the tough maths. I'll just
do I'll just do the easy maths or and get
some credits rather than you know, do the subject that
could advance on and become a university subject. You know,
(02:58):
it's the limitation and their belief in themselves. It's the
big thing. And so one of the things that can
great enhance their ability to make good choices about subjects
is actually just having some confidence. And that's where parents
can be right from the start, really really boosting kids'
options and later success. And that's just that sense of yes,
(03:20):
you could do that, or yeah, that was a tough one.
You didn't do so well. Now, but I tend to
think that you'll do this if you just take a
bit of extra time at it. You know, just to
dispel that self limiting talk that I think is probably
the biggest enemy of education for kids.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
You know what, I think you have absolutely nailed it,
because it's actually I asked it as an open question,
sort of as if I didn't really know where I'd
got to on the whole thing. But with the daughter
who was chatting about things with and I, you know,
you look at the journey they go through with confidence
and you know the anxiety that kids feel about just
(03:59):
a whole lot of things. And I just a couple
within the last few days settled on the fact that
the school still has required subjects and there are some
things that I think she's got three choices, and I
thought to himself, well, and one of them is about
something she's Actually it might not make the greatest career,
but it's going to give her a joy, and it's
going to give her esteem, and she's going to feel
(04:21):
like she's I think it's going to be a really
great thing for her confidence. And actually that's where I've
settled on exactly where you are. I just want her
to experience the joy of learning that she turns up
and even if she's not brilliant at everything, and you
know she's you know, she does all right anyway, But
I just sort of thought, oh my goodness, I was
(04:41):
on the verge of making a really big mistake and
saying to her, no, I don't agree with you doing that,
And that.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Would have been nothing like hering arts for boosts, nothing
like the performing arts for boosting confidence. And that's a
huge part of success and all all areas of life
and your relationships, your work life, your mental health. I
was talking with an actress to actor or who really
enjoyed just the performing arts for helping it process was
(05:09):
it's like, you know, to be in other people's skins,
to think what other people are thinking. And so yeah,
I wouldn't dismiss the performing arts at all. Even though
it's unlikely to be quite honest, it's unlikely to ever
turn into a career, it's still an incredible boost to
a skill set that's going to augment anything else they do.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, And I think, well, I actually I took that
it wasn't so much about the performing arts either. It
was just about here's something that you've said you'd really
love to do. Yeah, and who am I to In fact,
I'd be a giant hypocrite too anyway, because I ignored everyone's advice.
You know, in fact, that's almost one of the tests
that you need to pass as a performers. You need
(05:50):
to be able to ignore every negative bit of advice
because if something sways you away from it, you shouldn't
do it. It is, but I can imagine that for
I guess the only time you might say to your
child they say, look, I want to be a doctor,
and they want to study just humanity's top just anything
(06:12):
but science, biology, physics, chemistry, I must say, I'd probably say,
do you think those subjects are going to help you
with your journey to medical school?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
And then I mean if they've already By the way,
the kids that have a clear vision of where their
futures headed while they're still at you know, middle high
school years are pretty rare most kids. Most kids don't
know which way they're going to go. When people ask me,
what are you going to do? I used to say,
I want to be a quantity surveyor. Now I didn't
(06:44):
know what a quantity surveyor even was. I don't think
I know that is neither that neither really did the adults.
And I asked me and they just go, oh, and
they'd leave me alone, because you know, what are you
going to do after school is an incredibly dispiriting question
where you don't really know what you want to do. So, yeah,
when it comes to decision making, right up till about
year twelve, it probably doesn't matter too much. They've got
(07:06):
enough required subjects and things to keep all their options open.
The main thing is just to give them the confidence
that whichever direction you're going to head, you're probably going
to do okay if you're prepared to do the work.
It's more far more to do with your work attitude
than it is to your intellect, and so to dispel
those little self limiting beliefs about yourself is the most
valuable thing you can do. Then. Yet twelve year thirteen,
(07:30):
that's when you probably need to think, you know, where
might you be headed in this in your careers? You know,
is it going to be into a trade? Is it
going to be after university into a profession? Yeah, you
do think a bit more than that, a bit like that,
and by then they probably have a few inklings about
where their strengths lie.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah, it's funny. If I hadn't I have hadn't got
to that point of view. Before today's chat, I would
have been sitting here thinking, oh my god, what a revelation.
But it does. Hearing you say it as well makes
it so clear, because the one thing you want your
kids to believe is that they can do anything, and
forcing them to do you fill your ambitions.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Well, that's things.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
That's why always wonder with kids who sort of born
into a family where there is a strong family business
and there's a parental wish. And I don't think I'm
not going to say that every family business has this
sort of rigid expectation, because I'm sure there are a
lot of parents who own family businesses should say, look,
i'd love them to take over the family business, but
(08:31):
you know, we'd like them to do what makes them
happy as well. But that must be a I.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Mean, look, there's there's there's three that there's three outcomes
here that I can see off the top of my head.
One is that you demonstrate the joy in what you're doing,
your love of your trade, your love of your business,
you know the way that your profession challenges you, and
your kids will pick that up. And it's not unusual.
I know a family of doctors where not only just
(09:00):
the mom and dad and the kids are doctors, their
cousins and everything. It's sort of like a dynasty because
it's just sort of something that exudes out of their paws.
They love it, they and inspire. They don't force their
kids to choose that they they just seem to follow
on naturally because they see their parents love it. There's
the other way too, of forcing your kids to do it.
(09:23):
You know, I want you to move into this trade.
No one our family's gone off to university. You're going
to be getting your trade because a trade is going
to make sure that you're settled. And yes, you can
force them to do that, and maybe it'll be a
good choice, but maybe it'll damage your relationship too. And yeah,
and a third thing is that you'll often get kids
(09:43):
that want to please their parents. That's the far more typical.
You know, kids may not look like at times, but
they love the idea of getting their parents' approval. And
so I think one of the saddest outcomes is kids
that go right through and become a doctor or a lawyer,
or to graduate in some subject that they're you know,
fulfilling their parents wish. Often their own frustrated desires, and
(10:07):
then and then those kids hating it, and that would
be so sad. It's nothing more typical than a kid
that will graduate in the subject. And I'd have to
say it's possibly more girls than boys, and that that
would fall in this category. They graduate, and then they
never open a book in that subject ever. Again, they've
got the you know, they've ticked the box to make
their parents or teachers or whoever they wanted to make happy,
(10:32):
but they haven't followed their own heart or dream in
that area. And so if we're helping kids make decisions,
make sure we're helping them make their own decisions based
on their own inclinations, talents, desires. It's a problem.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I mean, what do you know when you're thirteen about life?
I mean, I mean, seriously, what do you know when
you're seventeen. I don't know, But I don't know. I
still don't think I have answered all the questions about
what I wanted. Because that's the thing. These days, they
say that the young generation, over the course of the
working life, could have as many as seven to careers.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Like pretty much, I pretty much have. And I'm just
I'm just sort of glad that any of the education
I had had was more like a toolbox than a
career narrowing set of you know, specific training. And so
I think that's something if you're not if you're not
sure exactly where to go, make sure they have a
toolbox in their head rather than just finely tuned, you know,
(11:31):
specialist education. Mind you, if you know, if you're wanting
to be a plumber, you have to train to be
a plumber. If you're wanting to be an orthodontist, you'd
learn author you know, you know, your training has to
focus on that. But in general, a lot of subjects
have got transferable skills into all sorts of areas. And
so I'm a great fan in generalist education, a great
(11:52):
fan And what you could I believe in sort of
the equal potential of all sorts of educations to provide
wonderful outcomes.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Here's well, actually, I've got a couple of questions. But
the first thing is how many careers have you done?
And you got an you'd love to highlight for us
just as an example.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Of that, I have been Well, let's see from the front.
I was a photographer. I was a hospital scientist working
in europhysiology.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Wow, wow. Wow, hold on, hold on, I'm just writing
that down and recovering from that a hospital.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
What. Yeah, I was a neurophysiologist for a few years.
I could have been easily New Zealand's worst scientist, but
I was basically whatever interested me I went off and did.
And so I did become a scientist, and I became
a photographer, and I loved working as a newspaper photographer,
and I still dabble in that. I worked as an
audio visual producer, which was back at a skill back
(12:46):
then that was producing videos and movies and shows and
writing scripts and TV stuff. And I and then I
contracted a fairly serious dose of religion. I became a
Baptist minister for a while, I moved off into doing
youth work, and I also became a mental health social worker.
And then I'm a parent educator and a writer and
(13:09):
a broadcaster. And so yeah, how many of you that's
a fair view, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Wow? That is Actually that just sounds like a life
well lived and you're.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Still most of those Well, I'd be working on towards
one while still doing the other, and so you know,
I was. I've had a lot of fun. I can't
say that I've shaken a lot of money out of
those careers.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
But moving on before you could become part of the bureaucracy,
that's where you mad.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Moving on before they realized that I was useless.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Actually, gosh, gosh, you would be good at a career's evening. Actually, John,
you'd I think I'm not saying that in any sense
facetiously or anything. I think that it's important for kids
to hear those things, because I think that sometimes there's
still this idea you you know, you've really you've got
(14:06):
to make a choice as to what you want to
do and start thinking ahead, when in fact, I mean
to go from being a photographer to being a scientist
and wasn't a neurophysiologist. Yeah, that means you will say,
I don't think you just walked in and said, oh,
I want to have a crack at this at the hospital,
and they said, right, you're hired. You would have had
to go and qualify.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Actually it wasn't too far off that I think. I
one of the things I've specialize in is being able
to convince people that I perhaps can do a job
that maybe you know, wow, but anyhow, that's another story.
But no, I have enjoyed doing all these different things
and the different in the strange scenarios have put me
in And I couldn't say that that was a template
(14:48):
for everyone to follow. And maybe someone would be far
happier and more content and pursuing the same career for
thirty forty years. It's probably just not the way I'm wild.
And that's the thing to take into account with your kids.
Your kids have got a unique wiring, maybe like yours.
More than likely it is a bit like yours. But
then again, pay attention to the differences and to see
(15:10):
where their talents and strengths lie in. And sometimes you
can pick up clues in there in their adolescence that
will point to the things I'll do well later on life.
I could probably point back to things in my adolescence
that foreshadowed most of those things that I did well.
I was a sciencey geek when I was at adulescence,
(15:31):
but I also enjoyed interacting with people and doing youth
work and things. But like back then too, so you know,
all sorts of things will give you a hint of
where where does that kid's future lie? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Okay, look would like to hear your course about how
you have managed how can you navigate your children's Oh,
I know this is the wrong way to put it.
How did you help your children make choices around you know,
what they're going to do for a living, in their
careers and all that sort of thing. And what approach
did you take if you had a child say they
(16:04):
wanted to do something which you thought, well, I want
to save them from my life and disappointment. Did you
do anyth about it? Do you just let them find
their own path? Which is what we all do in
the end? I guess has grown ups give us a
call on eight hundred eighty ten and eighty text nine
to nine two. It's twenty three past five News Talk
SEDB and welcome back to the show. This is that
we can collective the Parents Squad taking your calls over
(16:25):
one hundred eighty one hundred and eighty ten eighty. How
do you navigate help your kids navigate career choices and
the inevitable subject choices they may have to make. Let's
go to some calls.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Steve Gooday, Oh, good afternoon, gentlemen. I just joined in
and I just heard what John was saying, and it
really struck a chord. I've got three children, range from
twenty three down to eleven, and my twenty three year
old has always known what she wanted to do, and
she's well on her career path and done the master's
and bits and pieces. But my middle child is the
one who's passed a high school.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
At the moment, Oh, Steve, we've just sorry, you just
dropped out there for a second. Steve, your motiology start
at middle child again.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
My middle child is halfway through high school. Subject selections
just come up toward the end of the year for
next year. He's got no idea what he wants to do.
I've got a business, but he's not interested in following
in my footsteps, which is perfectly fine, but inequally, he
doesn't know what path he wants to take. And I
was just hearing what John said about how important it
is to have a toolbox, and that's what we were
(17:29):
speaking about the other day in regard to subject selection
for next year. He doesn't want to leave school. He's
got no path, but it's a case of just trying
to get him to take, you know, a bit of
this and a bit of that, the things he enjoys
doing rather the things that they'll sort of take a
career on. But I worry about whether or not he will,
as you said, you get on a career path and
be able to make headway in that to financially find
(17:52):
viability later in life if he keeps chopping and changing
and swapping. So I just thought it was quite interesting
that John had had such a wide veried career path
and obviously being successful.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
You should you John's probably going to it would be
self effacing in this respect. But John, have you.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Got a yes. I wouldn't worry too much if he's
as long as he's got a reasonable sense of confidence
in his own ability. And that's the thing which really
hobbles a kid in that they will they will make
their choices on the basis of what if I try
and fail? And so they'll opt out for a subject
(18:32):
that they see as being easy, and those those courses
may well have some value in themselves, but they don't
open up the future as well as well as other subjects.
I'm hard pressed to nominate what they might be, but
they might be lower level mathematics, they might be more
practically oriented tech subjects that may not have much appeal,
(18:56):
you know, which are for kids who aren't suited to
academic pursuits. Academic pursuits, by the way, aren't for everyone.
But yeah, it's keeping you on your on your stem subjects,
on your arts. I think your kids are going to
do fine. They'll keep they'll have their options open for
when he does have a clue which way he wants
to go.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Yeah, just a wide broad basis where I've sort of
been trying to guide him just to sort of do
the things he's enjoying as opposed to things that he
thinks he must have to do for a career.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Does he know? Does he know what he enjoys?
Speaker 4 (19:31):
He does? I mean he's he loves his mats and
he does love those sort of subjects. He's taken engineering
this year, and he loves sports, and in respect to
that is a subject which they shied away from telling
him to take unless he wanted to do that as
a career option. But I think taking it and leaving
the door open for careers in therapy later or something
(19:52):
like that may help. Basically, just a wide broad base
to follow from.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
How does I think? I think there are other things
you could probably worry worry about, mate, Apart from that
middle child. I think he's going to do fantastically well.
When you said he's encouraging him and smiling at what
he's doing, that he'll be fine, I'm sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
When you said he loves maths and engineering, Steve, I thought,
this kid's going to be right. He just needs to
keep enjoying what he's learning.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Every parent, I suppose say this, but I mean, from
my perspective, is a good human begins. He doesn't academically
excel in any one particular area, and he has no
direction of anything. He doesn't want to do engineering for
a career. He said he likes tinkering, but that's about it.
But I just like to think that he'll find his
feet at some point. I'm not overly stressed about it,
(20:37):
but considering I've had one that's gone through with the
same focus since she was like ten or eleven and
completed that past. The contrast between children, it's amazing, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Isn't it amazing? The contrast? And very often your second
child will take off and at ninety degrees to whichever
trajectory your first child goes on. I don't know why
that is, but it does seem to be that so
don't necessarily expect your child to emulate the success if
your first born there. But they'll find their own place
(21:08):
in the sun. And I'm pretty sure of that. I
would say that when you say your kids are very
good human being, man, you've already got your past mark
as a parent, and so well done you.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Hey, Steve, just one last question. Your twenty three year
old who knew what she wanted to do has for
a while. What age did she know what she wanted
to do?
Speaker 3 (21:29):
He was that twelve?
Speaker 4 (21:31):
She always wanted to he was however, about this, she
was affected very greatly by a teacher that she had,
and she said, I want to be like that, and
so she decided to go into teaching, and she went
to the early childhood and then she diversified off into
primary and now she works in that field and did
(21:53):
a master's degree in education, and at some point her
focus is to work for the Nursery of Education and
set the curriculum and teach teachers how to teach. That's
her goal.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Oh, well, Erica will be on the phone to her
before you at the Steve.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
I've tried to get her on speed or it doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
That's great, but it's interesting that you talked about and
someone inspiring inspiring a kid to make a good choice,
and that's a huge thing too, if your child is
chopping and changing around and doesn't know what to do
and it is despairing a little bit of what their
adult life was. Part of that is that young people
don't tend to mix much of adults these days, and
so sometimes it's not until they get into a job
(22:36):
or have the opportunity of shadowing someone in their work
that they get an idea of that. But teachers themselves
can be wonderful in that. I mean, teachers can open
doors in an amazing way. They can also shut down doors.
I'm sad to say a girl can get around a
teacher they don't like, but a boy, if there's a
teacher they don't like, it tends to be well taken
(22:58):
that they will hate the subject of the teachers teachers,
and so that can sometimes really influence We're talking about
some choices, and sometimes that will be entirely, well not entirely,
but strongly influenced by whether they like the teachers or not.
And so sometimes I'm picking that with the kids can
sometimes help in the they're thinking, yeah, I want to
(23:18):
take maths next year, but it'll be taught by that
person and they don't like that person, Well, maybe you
need to That's where a parent could have a very
productive talk with their kids.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yeah, here's one here. Hi, guys, I'm a secondary school
science teacher, and I have quite a different view to
the thought you come up with about the kid who
wants to be a doctor. I'm not sure they're contradicting
me anyway, but it says if you don't like science,
Oh okay, yeah, if you don't like science, then you
won't want to be a doctor. Being a doctors full
(23:48):
of science. I always tell kids to see the subjects
they enjoy, and that will lead them to a career
that they enjoy. If you hate that subject, you're going
to hate that career. There would be a slight exception
to that, because biology is a science which you might love,
which would certainly lead to medicine, whereas chetry and you
have to understand what drugs you're prescribing, but you don't
(24:08):
need to know how the hydrogen atom is affected by
when it comes into contact with.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
I mean, I mean, I understand the role a medical
degree is science, though also all doctors are scientists by
the time they finished it, so I think you can have.
I don't know why he thought I disagreed with him.
Maybe I didn't come across clearly, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I know, I was just saying that, for instance, you know,
you don't have to like nuclear physics to be a doctor.
I mean there are sciences are a very diverse subject
as well, and there will be some sciences which which
would be a must for being a doctor or whatever,
but other science it's like, well, okay, if you're not
interested in astrophysics, that's not going to preclude your ability
to be a doctor.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
I'm just thinking, how could someone not be interested in
a stript physics? But that's just my inner nerd speaking.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Actually, you know what, John, if you could, I just
love the idea that this is completely unrelated by the
way people, But I like to pick up on these
trivial topics that if the Earth was, if the Sun
was the size of a soccer ball, how far away
and how big the planets would be is you know,
because we all picture you know, they're all being much
(25:18):
more closely in proximity than it's.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
You probably couldn't see them. They'd be so far away
and the time that's the size of p's and billion
balls at most.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, and a couple of miles away or something. It's
quite amazing. Another text, Actually, I have got a question
just on what if you've got a child. And I
know we're not looking for the answers of the meaning
of life, but I do worry about people who say
I want to be this and if I can't do
this particular one profession, I'm never going to be happy.
(25:47):
And I have to say it is quite common in
performing arts when in fact happiness you know, some careers
people say they couldn't be happy without never existed at
one stage, and people still found happiness. What do you
do if you've got that just that solitary, singular vision
where they think that they're there their happiness in life
(26:08):
will only depend on success in this particular field.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yeah, that that'd be a worry that. The good thing
about that is often to get to a particular that
that type of thing you're talking about, maybe it might
be to be an all black, or it might be
to be a part you know, something like that is
the path that you talk about, the steps that they'll
need to be on that to get to that point,
(26:33):
and it might be you need to get a qualification
in this, or it might mean that you need to
work for a while in that, or you need to
support yourself in your and your love of that subject
by doing something else. And the road very often to
those goals opens up new vistas and new views. And yes,
it may be that they'll be disappointed, you know, but
believe it, they don't get to become a poet or
(26:55):
a conquer everorist or something like that. But on the way,
they may well have got a vision of what else
they can do and I got a career should open up.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, I think that's the one place where you encourage
them to follow their passion. But just tell them to
cast their net a little wider on other things and
see what pops up. Because often it's especially if they're
really young, if their only interests have been quite narrow,
then we'll just let a little time go by. They
might bump into someone who's done something completely different and going, oh, never.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Thought of that. That's right. I mean, you don't necessarily
pooh pooh their vision. You perhaps just start sewing the
idea of Okay, what are the steps you need to
go to do that, and very often those steps are
practical and could lead to other places as well. You know,
oh gosh, if you're wanting to be a you know,
if you're wanting to you know, be a career mountain climber, yeah,
(27:49):
maybe you need to go and study sports medicine or
you need to go and study sports science for something
like that as a way to that net could open
up other careers not unrelated. And maybe they'll never get
to become that particular type of out in climate that
they're wanting to do, but they might well have a
career and a related feel that they really enjoy. And
(28:10):
so we don't need to dispel or pooh pooh any
particular dream. It's just keeping their keeping the idea of
loving learning, loving options, exploring things and learning stuff, you know,
that'll keep them going.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, I've got a few texts here. Our son hates
science simply because of the teachers he has had. He
thinks he's rubbish at it because he's never been taught
science properly in an interesting way, very sad look. And
that just highlights the power of a good teacher, a
bad teacher who will inspire the opposite.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Hopefully that might only be a problem for one year,
but I could imagine that if you know, I don't
usually recommend people change schools, but honestly, if that is
a persistent problem, I think that would be a reason
to actually look at changing with you. If it was
(28:59):
a real problem. That often is the problem that could
be worked around in other ways.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Some quite enlightening texts here, I think, which go along
with what we've been saying. Hi, my grandson was leaving
school and tossing up between law and medicine. Both seemed
to have missed the mark. I asked him what was
the environment he most likely liked to be in, and
quick as the flash, he said the ocean. And next
time I saw him he was enrolled in marine engineering
and two years into it he's loving it. Cheers Lou.
(29:25):
I mean that there we go. There's the illustration of
those for parents who are listening.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
I think, honestly, yeah, it's fantastic that life can take
lots and lots of interesting and divers you know, diverse things.
People don't get stuck in a career. I know people
that have had careers in performing arts, law and end
up in broadcasting.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
And yes, yeah, it's funny, you know the career. I mean,
you're referring to me, obviously or possibly. But it's interesting
that I only went I went to university because my
brothers had and I just assumed. The funny thing is
my mum never told me I should. Now, I just
thought that was expected of me because of what the
(30:07):
others had done. So and I thought, oh, I quite,
I'm interested in history. Maybe I'll do law or something.
Because I had no experience life experience to make a
sensible decision.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
But it's laid down a foundation of transferable skills that
I'm sure you've used all your life.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Funny, just before you wrap it up. When I was
doing a school cert exam for English, which I was
average at English, I wrote you had to write a
creative essay and the exam I still remember it, and
I wrote one out of nowhere. I'd never even imagined this,
and it was about being a conductor of a symphony
orchestra and walking out into that inky blackness and bringing
the bad time down and the new orchestra starts playing.
(30:45):
And when I did that for the first time with
the Auckland Phlnemmonia, I actually remember that essay and I thought,
oh there was something that there was a little sign there.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yeah. Anyway, Yeah, that's the thing. Your kids might not
know what they're going to do, but often their interests,
their passions, they foreshadow what their care their careers might be,
and so looking at what they already love is not
a bad place to start if you're thinking about what
they're going to do in the future.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, good stuff, Hey John, thanks so much mate. Time
is fine. We've got to go to our sports rapping
just a moment, but I love your advice and I
hope something's got some people have found some value in
it as well.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Thanks mate.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yep, excellent, there we go. That's John Cowen And if
you have missed any other discussion, John's golden nugget of
pretty much came at the start of the show with
just you know, helping your kids to find your passion
and even if you don't like their career choice, the
ability for them to do something they love and to
experience confidence and joy through that is you know, a
great starting point. Anyway, we'll be wrapping sport in just
(31:46):
a moment with Jason Pine, who joins us. This is
News Talk, said b it's eighteen minutes to five.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk Said Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk ZEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And welcome back to the show. This is the Weekend Collective.
I'm Tim Beverage and if you've missed any of the
previous house quite an interesting chat or not? What don't
mean quite an interesting chat? That's what we're hear for
interesting chats all the time. Fantastic panel with the Niva,
Retti Marno and car MacDonald and also the wonder If
Radio show with Astley Church. You missed any of it,
go check out your podcasts, look up the Weekend Collective
(00:30):
and I suggest suggest iHeartRadio. And now it's time for
the Parent Squad and joining me is well. He's no
strange to zedby or to this show as well, and
I don't think I need any other induction apart from
his name. It's John Cowan. John, Hello, how are you?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I'm doing very well?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Thanks excellent And where are you coming to us from today?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I'm down in christ Church. I'm down here visiting my
son and daughter in law and I love doing a
bit of Cantabrian hospitality.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hey, what's the vibe down there around the cathedral?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
I haven't picked up whether or not that news that
they're not going to add any extra government money to
the rebuild. I haven't picked up any and nobody's mentioned
that at all. I should imagine they'd be a bit disappointed,
and yeah, who knows. Hey, I'm sure that's not a
story of it's over yet.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
No, no, hey, we want your cause. I on one
hundred ten and eight eight text nine nine two because well,
actually the reason I raised this topic myself and to
have a chat about is because it suddenly started to
hit our household is our kids asking, you know, they're
getting some choice with subjects now, and my oldest one
is and there was a careers evening that popped up
(01:44):
which we did pop along to but realized maybe it
was probably for kids who are a little bit older.
But the subject choice and all that, which actually I
just found it a bit. It triggered me a bit
more than I thought because my daughter expressed a few
things about what she thought she might want to do,
and I thought to myself one of them was in
the performance arts, and as a former performing artist, so
(02:07):
I was like, oh, God, don't do that. But you know,
I'm just being honest. I mean, think the career choices
are tough have in your history as a parent, history
as a parent, but also as someone who talks about parenting.
What advice can you give to your kids and what
(02:30):
advice and opinions should you avoid giving to your kids
on this stuff?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Okay, it's worth thinking what limits kids in their choices
later on, and very often it's their belief that they
can't do something or which often looks like laziness. Oh,
I don't want to do the tough maths. I'll just
do I'll just do the easy maths or and get
some credits rather than you know, do the subject that
could advance on and become a university subject. You know,
(02:58):
it's the limitation and their belief in themselves. It's the
big thing. And so one of the things that can
great enhance their ability to make good choices about subjects
is actually just having some confidence. And that's where parents
can be right from the start, really really boosting kids'
options and later success. And that's just that sense of yes,
(03:20):
you could do that, or yeah, that was a tough one.
You didn't do so well. Now, but I tend to
think that you'll do this if you just take a
bit of extra time at it. You know, just to
dispel that self limiting talk that I think is probably
the biggest enemy of education for kids.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
You know what, I think you have absolutely nailed it,
because it's actually I asked it as an open question,
sort of as if I didn't really know where I'd
got to on the whole thing. But with the daughter
who was chatting about things with and I, you know,
you look at the journey they go through with confidence
and you know the anxiety that kids feel about just
(03:59):
a whole lot of things. And I just a couple
within the last few days settled on the fact that
the school still has required subjects and there are some
things that I think she's got three choices, and I
thought to himself, well, and one of them is about
something she's Actually it might not make the greatest career,
but it's going to give her a joy, and it's
going to give her esteem, and she's going to feel
(04:21):
like she's I think it's going to be a really
great thing for her confidence. And actually that's where I've
settled on exactly where you are. I just want her
to experience the joy of learning that she turns up
and even if she's not brilliant at everything, and you
know she's you know, she does all right anyway, But
I just sort of thought, oh my goodness, I was
(04:41):
on the verge of making a really big mistake and
saying to her, no, I don't agree with you doing that,
And that.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Would have been nothing like hering arts for boosts, nothing
like the performing arts for boosting confidence. And that's a
huge part of success and all all areas of life
and your relationships, your work life, your mental health. I
was talking with an actress to actor or who really
enjoyed just the performing arts for helping it process was
(05:09):
it's like, you know, to be in other people's skins,
to think what other people are thinking. And so yeah,
I wouldn't dismiss the performing arts at all. Even though
it's unlikely to be quite honest, it's unlikely to ever
turn into a career, it's still an incredible boost to
a skill set that's going to augment anything else they do.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, And I think, well, I actually I took that
it wasn't so much about the performing arts either. It
was just about here's something that you've said you'd really
love to do. Yeah, and who am I to In fact,
I'd be a giant hypocrite too anyway, because I ignored everyone's advice.
You know, in fact, that's almost one of the tests
that you need to pass as a performers. You need
(05:50):
to be able to ignore every negative bit of advice
because if something sways you away from it, you shouldn't
do it. It is, but I can imagine that for
I guess the only time you might say to your
child they say, look, I want to be a doctor,
and they want to study just humanity's top just anything
(06:12):
but science, biology, physics, chemistry, I must say, I'd probably say,
do you think those subjects are going to help you
with your journey to medical school?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
And then I mean if they've already By the way,
the kids that have a clear vision of where their
futures headed while they're still at you know, middle high
school years are pretty rare most kids. Most kids don't
know which way they're going to go. When people ask me,
what are you going to do? I used to say,
I want to be a quantity surveyor. Now I didn't
(06:44):
know what a quantity surveyor even was. I don't think
I know that is neither that neither really did the adults.
And I asked me and they just go, oh, and
they'd leave me alone, because you know, what are you
going to do after school is an incredibly dispiriting question
where you don't really know what you want to do. So, yeah,
when it comes to decision making, right up till about
year twelve, it probably doesn't matter too much. They've got
(07:06):
enough required subjects and things to keep all their options open.
The main thing is just to give them the confidence
that whichever direction you're going to head, you're probably going
to do okay if you're prepared to do the work.
It's more far more to do with your work attitude
than it is to your intellect, and so to dispel
those little self limiting beliefs about yourself is the most
valuable thing you can do. Then. Yet twelve year thirteen,
(07:30):
that's when you probably need to think, you know, where
might you be headed in this in your careers? You know,
is it going to be into a trade? Is it
going to be after university into a profession? Yeah, you
do think a bit more than that, a bit like that,
and by then they probably have a few inklings about
where their strengths lie.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yeah, it's funny. If I hadn't I have hadn't got
to that point of view. Before today's chat, I would
have been sitting here thinking, oh my god, what a revelation.
But it does. Hearing you say it as well makes
it so clear, because the one thing you want your
kids to believe is that they can do anything, and
forcing them to do you fill your ambitions.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Well, that's things.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
That's why always wonder with kids who sort of born
into a family where there is a strong family business
and there's a parental wish. And I don't think I'm
not going to say that every family business has this
sort of rigid expectation, because I'm sure there are a
lot of parents who own family businesses should say, look,
i'd love them to take over the family business, but
(08:31):
you know, we'd like them to do what makes them
happy as well. But that must be a I.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Mean, look, there's there's there's three that there's three outcomes
here that I can see off the top of my head.
One is that you demonstrate the joy in what you're doing,
your love of your trade, your love of your business,
you know the way that your profession challenges you, and
your kids will pick that up. And it's not unusual.
I know a family of doctors where not only just
(09:00):
the mom and dad and the kids are doctors, their
cousins and everything. It's sort of like a dynasty because
it's just sort of something that exudes out of their paws.
They love it, they and inspire. They don't force their
kids to choose that they they just seem to follow
on naturally because they see their parents love it. There's
the other way too, of forcing your kids to do it.
(09:23):
You know, I want you to move into this trade.
No one our family's gone off to university. You're going
to be getting your trade because a trade is going
to make sure that you're settled. And yes, you can
force them to do that, and maybe it'll be a
good choice, but maybe it'll damage your relationship too. And yeah,
and a third thing is that you'll often get kids
(09:43):
that want to please their parents. That's the far more typical.
You know, kids may not look like at times, but
they love the idea of getting their parents' approval. And
so I think one of the saddest outcomes is kids
that go right through and become a doctor or a lawyer,
or to graduate in some subject that they're you know,
fulfilling their parents wish. Often their own frustrated desires, and
(10:07):
then and then those kids hating it, and that would
be so sad. It's nothing more typical than a kid
that will graduate in the subject. And I'd have to
say it's possibly more girls than boys, and that that
would fall in this category. They graduate, and then they
never open a book in that subject ever. Again, they've
got the you know, they've ticked the box to make
their parents or teachers or whoever they wanted to make happy,
(10:32):
but they haven't followed their own heart or dream in
that area. And so if we're helping kids make decisions,
make sure we're helping them make their own decisions based
on their own inclinations, talents, desires. It's a problem.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I mean, what do you know when you're thirteen about life?
I mean, I mean, seriously, what do you know when
you're seventeen. I don't know, But I don't know. I
still don't think I have answered all the questions about
what I wanted. Because that's the thing. These days, they
say that the young generation, over the course of the
working life, could have as many as seven to careers.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Like pretty much, I pretty much have. And I'm just
I'm just sort of glad that any of the education
I had had was more like a toolbox than a
career narrowing set of you know, specific training. And so
I think that's something if you're not if you're not
sure exactly where to go, make sure they have a
toolbox in their head rather than just finely tuned, you know,
(11:31):
specialist education. Mind you, if you know, if you're wanting
to be a plumber, you have to train to be
a plumber. If you're wanting to be an orthodontist, you'd
learn author you know, you know, your training has to
focus on that. But in general, a lot of subjects
have got transferable skills into all sorts of areas. And
so I'm a great fan in generalist education, a great
(11:52):
fan And what you could I believe in sort of
the equal potential of all sorts of educations to provide
wonderful outcomes.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Here's well, actually, I've got a couple of questions. But
the first thing is how many careers have you done?
And you got an you'd love to highlight for us
just as an example.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Of that, I have been Well, let's see from the front.
I was a photographer. I was a hospital scientist working
in europhysiology.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Wow, wow. Wow, hold on, hold on, I'm just writing
that down and recovering from that a hospital.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
What. Yeah, I was a neurophysiologist for a few years.
I could have been easily New Zealand's worst scientist, but
I was basically whatever interested me I went off and did.
And so I did become a scientist, and I became
a photographer, and I loved working as a newspaper photographer,
and I still dabble in that. I worked as an
audio visual producer, which was back at a skill back
(12:46):
then that was producing videos and movies and shows and
writing scripts and TV stuff. And I and then I
contracted a fairly serious dose of religion. I became a
Baptist minister for a while, I moved off into doing
youth work, and I also became a mental health social worker.
And then I'm a parent educator and a writer and
(13:09):
a broadcaster. And so yeah, how many of you that's
a fair view, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Wow? That is Actually that just sounds like a life
well lived and you're.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Still most of those Well, I'd be working on towards
one while still doing the other, and so you know,
I was. I've had a lot of fun. I can't
say that I've shaken a lot of money out of
those careers.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
But moving on before you could become part of the bureaucracy,
that's where you mad.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Moving on before they realized that I was useless.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Actually, gosh, gosh, you would be good at a career's evening. Actually, John,
you'd I think I'm not saying that in any sense
facetiously or anything. I think that it's important for kids
to hear those things, because I think that sometimes there's
still this idea you you know, you've really you've got
(14:06):
to make a choice as to what you want to
do and start thinking ahead, when in fact, I mean
to go from being a photographer to being a scientist
and wasn't a neurophysiologist. Yeah, that means you will say,
I don't think you just walked in and said, oh,
I want to have a crack at this at the hospital,
and they said, right, you're hired. You would have had
to go and qualify.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Actually it wasn't too far off that I think. I
one of the things I've specialize in is being able
to convince people that I perhaps can do a job
that maybe you know, wow, but anyhow, that's another story.
But no, I have enjoyed doing all these different things
and the different in the strange scenarios have put me
in And I couldn't say that that was a template
(14:48):
for everyone to follow. And maybe someone would be far
happier and more content and pursuing the same career for
thirty forty years. It's probably just not the way I'm wild.
And that's the thing to take into account with your kids.
Your kids have got a unique wiring, maybe like yours.
More than likely it is a bit like yours. But
then again, pay attention to the differences and to see
(15:10):
where their talents and strengths lie in. And sometimes you
can pick up clues in there in their adolescence that
will point to the things I'll do well later on life.
I could probably point back to things in my adolescence
that foreshadowed most of those things that I did well.
I was a sciencey geek when I was at adulescence,
(15:31):
but I also enjoyed interacting with people and doing youth
work and things. But like back then too, so you know,
all sorts of things will give you a hint of
where where does that kid's future lie? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Okay, look would like to hear your course about how
you have managed how can you navigate your children's Oh,
I know this is the wrong way to put it.
How did you help your children make choices around you know,
what they're going to do for a living, in their
careers and all that sort of thing. And what approach
did you take if you had a child say they
(16:04):
wanted to do something which you thought, well, I want
to save them from my life and disappointment. Did you
do anyth about it? Do you just let them find
their own path? Which is what we all do in
the end? I guess has grown ups give us a
call on eight hundred eighty ten and eighty text nine
to nine two. It's twenty three past five News Talk
SEDB and welcome back to the show. This is that
we can collective the Parents Squad taking your calls over
(16:25):
one hundred eighty one hundred and eighty ten eighty. How
do you navigate help your kids navigate career choices and
the inevitable subject choices they may have to make. Let's
go to some calls.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Steve Gooday, Oh, good afternoon, gentlemen. I just joined in
and I just heard what John was saying, and it
really struck a chord. I've got three children, range from
twenty three down to eleven, and my twenty three year
old has always known what she wanted to do, and
she's well on her career path and done the master's
and bits and pieces. But my middle child is the
one who's passed a high school.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
At the moment, Oh, Steve, we've just sorry, you just
dropped out there for a second. Steve, your motiology start
at middle child again.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
My middle child is halfway through high school. Subject selections
just come up toward the end of the year for
next year. He's got no idea what he wants to do.
I've got a business, but he's not interested in following
in my footsteps, which is perfectly fine, but inequally, he
doesn't know what path he wants to take. And I
was just hearing what John said about how important it
is to have a toolbox, and that's what we were
(17:29):
speaking about the other day in regard to subject selection
for next year. He doesn't want to leave school. He's
got no path, but it's a case of just trying
to get him to take, you know, a bit of
this and a bit of that, the things he enjoys
doing rather the things that they'll sort of take a
career on. But I worry about whether or not he will,
as you said, you get on a career path and
be able to make headway in that to financially find
(17:52):
viability later in life if he keeps chopping and changing
and swapping. So I just thought it was quite interesting
that John had had such a wide veried career path
and obviously being successful.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
You should you John's probably going to it would be
self effacing in this respect. But John, have you.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Got a yes. I wouldn't worry too much if he's
as long as he's got a reasonable sense of confidence
in his own ability. And that's the thing which really
hobbles a kid in that they will they will make
their choices on the basis of what if I try
and fail? And so they'll opt out for a subject
(18:32):
that they see as being easy, and those those courses
may well have some value in themselves, but they don't
open up the future as well as well as other subjects.
I'm hard pressed to nominate what they might be, but
they might be lower level mathematics, they might be more
practically oriented tech subjects that may not have much appeal,
(18:56):
you know, which are for kids who aren't suited to
academic pursuits. Academic pursuits, by the way, aren't for everyone.
But yeah, it's keeping you on your on your stem subjects,
on your arts. I think your kids are going to
do fine. They'll keep they'll have their options open for
when he does have a clue which way he wants
to go.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Yeah, just a wide broad basis where I've sort of
been trying to guide him just to sort of do
the things he's enjoying as opposed to things that he
thinks he must have to do for a career.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Does he know? Does he know what he enjoys?
Speaker 4 (19:31):
He does? I mean he's he loves his mats and
he does love those sort of subjects. He's taken engineering
this year, and he loves sports, and in respect to
that is a subject which they shied away from telling
him to take unless he wanted to do that as
a career option. But I think taking it and leaving
the door open for careers in therapy later or something
(19:52):
like that may help. Basically, just a wide broad base
to follow from.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
How does I think? I think there are other things
you could probably worry worry about, mate, Apart from that
middle child. I think he's going to do fantastically well.
When you said he's encouraging him and smiling at what
he's doing, that he'll be fine, I'm sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
When you said he loves maths and engineering, Steve, I thought,
this kid's going to be right. He just needs to
keep enjoying what he's learning.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Every parent, I suppose say this, but I mean, from
my perspective, is a good human begins. He doesn't academically
excel in any one particular area, and he has no
direction of anything. He doesn't want to do engineering for
a career. He said he likes tinkering, but that's about it.
But I just like to think that he'll find his
feet at some point. I'm not overly stressed about it,
(20:37):
but considering I've had one that's gone through with the
same focus since she was like ten or eleven and
completed that past. The contrast between children, it's amazing, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Isn't it amazing? The contrast? And very often your second
child will take off and at ninety degrees to whichever
trajectory your first child goes on. I don't know why
that is, but it does seem to be that so
don't necessarily expect your child to emulate the success if
your first born there. But they'll find their own place
(21:08):
in the sun. And I'm pretty sure of that. I
would say that when you say your kids are very
good human being, man, you've already got your past mark
as a parent, and so well done you.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Hey, Steve, just one last question. Your twenty three year
old who knew what she wanted to do has for
a while. What age did she know what she wanted
to do?
Speaker 3 (21:29):
He was that twelve?
Speaker 4 (21:31):
She always wanted to he was however, about this, she
was affected very greatly by a teacher that she had,
and she said, I want to be like that, and
so she decided to go into teaching, and she went
to the early childhood and then she diversified off into
primary and now she works in that field and did
(21:53):
a master's degree in education, and at some point her
focus is to work for the Nursery of Education and
set the curriculum and teach teachers how to teach. That's
her goal.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Oh, well, Erica will be on the phone to her
before you at the Steve.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
I've tried to get her on speed or it doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
That's great, but it's interesting that you talked about and
someone inspiring inspiring a kid to make a good choice,
and that's a huge thing too, if your child is
chopping and changing around and doesn't know what to do
and it is despairing a little bit of what their
adult life was. Part of that is that young people
don't tend to mix much of adults these days, and
so sometimes it's not until they get into a job
(22:36):
or have the opportunity of shadowing someone in their work
that they get an idea of that. But teachers themselves
can be wonderful in that. I mean, teachers can open
doors in an amazing way. They can also shut down doors.
I'm sad to say a girl can get around a
teacher they don't like, but a boy, if there's a
teacher they don't like, it tends to be well taken
(22:58):
that they will hate the subject of the teachers teachers,
and so that can sometimes really influence We're talking about
some choices, and sometimes that will be entirely, well not entirely,
but strongly influenced by whether they like the teachers or not.
And so sometimes I'm picking that with the kids can
sometimes help in the they're thinking, yeah, I want to
(23:18):
take maths next year, but it'll be taught by that
person and they don't like that person, Well, maybe you
need to That's where a parent could have a very
productive talk with their kids.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yeah, here's one here. Hi, guys, I'm a secondary school
science teacher, and I have quite a different view to
the thought you come up with about the kid who
wants to be a doctor. I'm not sure they're contradicting
me anyway, but it says if you don't like science,
Oh okay, yeah, if you don't like science, then you
won't want to be a doctor. Being a doctors full
(23:48):
of science. I always tell kids to see the subjects
they enjoy, and that will lead them to a career
that they enjoy. If you hate that subject, you're going
to hate that career. There would be a slight exception
to that, because biology is a science which you might love,
which would certainly lead to medicine, whereas chetry and you
have to understand what drugs you're prescribing, but you don't
(24:08):
need to know how the hydrogen atom is affected by
when it comes into contact with.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
I mean, I mean, I understand the role a medical
degree is science, though also all doctors are scientists by
the time they finished it, so I think you can have.
I don't know why he thought I disagreed with him.
Maybe I didn't come across clearly, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I know, I was just saying that, for instance, you know,
you don't have to like nuclear physics to be a doctor.
I mean there are sciences are a very diverse subject
as well, and there will be some sciences which which
would be a must for being a doctor or whatever,
but other science it's like, well, okay, if you're not
interested in astrophysics, that's not going to preclude your ability
to be a doctor.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
I'm just thinking, how could someone not be interested in
a stript physics? But that's just my inner nerd speaking.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Actually, you know what, John, if you could, I just
love the idea that this is completely unrelated by the
way people, But I like to pick up on these
trivial topics that if the Earth was, if the Sun
was the size of a soccer ball, how far away
and how big the planets would be is you know,
because we all picture you know, they're all being much
(25:18):
more closely in proximity than it's.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
You probably couldn't see them. They'd be so far away
and the time that's the size of p's and billion
balls at most.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, and a couple of miles away or something. It's
quite amazing. Another text, Actually, I have got a question
just on what if you've got a child. And I
know we're not looking for the answers of the meaning
of life, but I do worry about people who say
I want to be this and if I can't do
this particular one profession, I'm never going to be happy.
(25:47):
And I have to say it is quite common in
performing arts when in fact happiness you know, some careers
people say they couldn't be happy without never existed at
one stage, and people still found happiness. What do you
do if you've got that just that solitary, singular vision
where they think that they're there their happiness in life
(26:08):
will only depend on success in this particular field.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yeah, that that'd be a worry that. The good thing
about that is often to get to a particular that
that type of thing you're talking about, maybe it might
be to be an all black, or it might be
to be a part you know, something like that is
the path that you talk about, the steps that they'll
need to be on that to get to that point,
(26:33):
and it might be you need to get a qualification
in this, or it might mean that you need to
work for a while in that, or you need to
support yourself in your and your love of that subject
by doing something else. And the road very often to
those goals opens up new vistas and new views. And yes,
it may be that they'll be disappointed, you know, but
believe it, they don't get to become a poet or
(26:55):
a conquer everorist or something like that. But on the way,
they may well have got a vision of what else
they can do and I got a career should open up.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, I think that's the one place where you encourage
them to follow their passion. But just tell them to
cast their net a little wider on other things and
see what pops up. Because often it's especially if they're
really young, if their only interests have been quite narrow,
then we'll just let a little time go by. They
might bump into someone who's done something completely different and going, oh, never.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Thought of that. That's right. I mean, you don't necessarily
pooh pooh their vision. You perhaps just start sewing the
idea of Okay, what are the steps you need to
go to do that, and very often those steps are
practical and could lead to other places as well. You know,
oh gosh, if you're wanting to be a you know,
if you're wanting to you know, be a career mountain climber, yeah,
(27:49):
maybe you need to go and study sports medicine or
you need to go and study sports science for something
like that as a way to that net could open
up other careers not unrelated. And maybe they'll never get
to become that particular type of out in climate that
they're wanting to do, but they might well have a
career and a related feel that they really enjoy. And
(28:10):
so we don't need to dispel or pooh pooh any
particular dream. It's just keeping their keeping the idea of
loving learning, loving options, exploring things and learning stuff, you know,
that'll keep them going.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, I've got a few texts here. Our son hates
science simply because of the teachers he has had. He
thinks he's rubbish at it because he's never been taught
science properly in an interesting way, very sad look. And
that just highlights the power of a good teacher, a
bad teacher who will inspire the opposite.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Hopefully that might only be a problem for one year,
but I could imagine that if you know, I don't
usually recommend people change schools, but honestly, if that is
a persistent problem, I think that would be a reason
to actually look at changing with you. If it was
(28:59):
a real problem. That often is the problem that could
be worked around in other ways.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Some quite enlightening texts here, I think, which go along
with what we've been saying. Hi, my grandson was leaving
school and tossing up between law and medicine. Both seemed
to have missed the mark. I asked him what was
the environment he most likely liked to be in, and
quick as the flash, he said the ocean. And next
time I saw him he was enrolled in marine engineering
and two years into it he's loving it. Cheers Lou.
(29:25):
I mean that there we go. There's the illustration of
those for parents who are listening.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
I think, honestly, yeah, it's fantastic that life can take
lots and lots of interesting and divers you know, diverse things.
People don't get stuck in a career. I know people
that have had careers in performing arts, law and end
up in broadcasting.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
And yes, yeah, it's funny, you know the career. I mean,
you're referring to me, obviously or possibly. But it's interesting
that I only went I went to university because my
brothers had and I just assumed. The funny thing is
my mum never told me I should. Now, I just
thought that was expected of me because of what the
(30:07):
others had done. So and I thought, oh, I quite,
I'm interested in history. Maybe I'll do law or something.
Because I had no experience life experience to make a
sensible decision.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
But it's laid down a foundation of transferable skills that
I'm sure you've used all your life.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Funny, just before you wrap it up. When I was
doing a school cert exam for English, which I was
average at English, I wrote you had to write a
creative essay and the exam I still remember it, and
I wrote one out of nowhere. I'd never even imagined this,
and it was about being a conductor of a symphony
orchestra and walking out into that inky blackness and bringing
the bad time down and the new orchestra starts playing.
(30:45):
And when I did that for the first time with
the Auckland Phlnemmonia, I actually remember that essay and I thought,
oh there was something that there was a little sign there.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yeah. Anyway, Yeah, that's the thing. Your kids might not
know what they're going to do, but often their interests,
their passions, they foreshadow what their care their careers might be,
and so looking at what they already love is not
a bad place to start if you're thinking about what
they're going to do in the future.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, good stuff, Hey John, thanks so much mate. Time
is fine. We've got to go to our sports rapping
just a moment, but I love your advice and I
hope something's got some people have found some value in
it as well.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Thanks mate.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yep, excellent, there we go. That's John Cowen And if
you have missed any other discussion, John's golden nugget of
pretty much came at the start of the show with
just you know, helping your kids to find your passion
and even if you don't like their career choice, the
ability for them to do something they love and to
experience confidence and joy through that is you know, a
great starting point. Anyway, we'll be wrapping sport in just
(31:46):
a moment with Jason Pine, who joins us. This is
News Talk, said b it's eighteen minutes to five.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk Said Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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