October 5, 2025 • 35 mins
Our kids are growing up, and with that comes the parental obligation to allow them to start making decisions for themselves.
This come after we saw the story of the Gaza Flotilla and an interview with the father of Sam Leason, an 18 year old who was a part of the recent flotilla to Gaza.
I think regardless of your views, most parents would be pretty hesitant to allow their teenager to head off into a warzone. But truly, at 18, what can we really do?
How much guidance should parents be giving their kids once they reach those older years?
Psychologist at MindWorks Sara Chatwin joined Tim Beveridge on The Parent Squad.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks,
I'd be as you know, parents, squad kids, they grow up,
the bleeding obvious, isn't it. But there's that moment or
moments that happened during the course of whether it's of
letting your kids make their own decision and relinquishing the
gradual relinquishment of control, or for some parents it might
(00:28):
actually be sudden because you might have been very authoritarian
and then suddenly when your kids old enough to leave
home they see him, I'm and doubt, I'm off to
do my own thing. So the reason we thought of
having a chat about this was, and this is without
a sense of judgment. I heard the interview with the
father of the young man who was on the Gaza flotilla,
and Sam Leeson was the was the young man's name.
(00:50):
He was eighteen years old and he was part of
that recent flotilla that went to Gaza, and which would
have if I was a parent, if one of my
children was on that flotilla, I would be I would
be petrified because you never know what can happen. It's
you know, there's alia military and all that sort of thing.
And without getting too political. And one of his comments was,
(01:10):
I think here there was chatting to him, the sister
the father, and said asked if the questions around how
comfortably he was, whether did you tell him he shouldn't
go and all that, And I'm not sure he actually
particularly answered that question explicitly, but he did say, of course,
you know, you know what it's like when you've got teenagers.
They do exactly what you want. And obviously he was
(01:31):
being sarcastic and saying that, and the indication was that
this young man Sam was going to do whatever he
wanted and he believed in it passionately. So off he went.
And so maybe at eighteen they can make their own decisions.
Well not maybe they legally can make their own decisions.
But it does raise that question as to how do
you get to that point where they are ready to
(01:53):
make all the decisions for themselves. So at what point
do you start to relinquish control or let them have
more of a say?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
You know?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
And as I say, you know, and when they're just
a handful of years old, it might be letting them
choose the flavor of their own ice cream, and later
on it might be letting them have more of a say,
and what subjects they want to study, what career choices
they're going to make. So when did you? When did you?
What was the process for you taking your hands off
the controls for your kids? And to be honest, I
(02:24):
don't think any parent ever relinquishes what they would their
interest in their children's upbringing. But to discuss that, that's
a long introduction. I haven't got around whom my guests.
She's from mind Works, Sarah chat One. Hello, Sarah, how
are you?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I am your esteemed guest. I'm very well, Thank you, Tom.
It's an interesting one, huh.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Because we are going through a little bit of a
journey with our girls. So mine are twelve fourteen, going
on thirteen to fifteen. And one of the things that's
almost helped us is at the school that my girls
go to. So my fourteen year old for next year
chooses a few more elective subjects. But the rules are
(03:06):
the way it's formatted is that the link is not
available for parents to make that choice. So there are
three or four choices they can make, and it's actually
the school has sent a very strong signal to the
parents that this is a student, this is a student's choice,
and I quite like that because even though often kids
will be like, well what do you think, Mum, what
(03:27):
do you think? Dad? And mum and dad might have
a strong recommendation, they might feel they need to follow it. Ultimately,
I like that there's that signal like, let them make
that choice.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
I'm not even going to play Devil's advocate there. I
think that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Now.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
I do think that it's there is the risk that
some students will not communicate with their parents, so perhaps
the parent might get a bit of a shock with
the choices, but I think most people, I really hope
that most people are having discussions and chats and talks
with their children from about you know, age eleven, twelve thirteen,
(04:04):
about you know, what kind of subjects resonate for you,
What do you feel like you want to do for
your future? What kind of things do you like in
terms of where they're going with career choices. So hopefully
those conversations are happening so that when a child comes
to pick their subjects and look at those options that
the school gives them and only them, you know, they
(04:24):
make the right ones for them because ultimately it's their
life they're living.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
So yeah, I do like that too.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Because, to be honest, if my daughter was eighteen and
she said I want to go on the flatilitant to Gaza,
I'd be like, no, bloody way, But of course I
could stop. But see there is I'm going to again
quote for the unpteenth time one of my favorite expressions
from Ian Grant, who is one of the founders of
The Parenting Place. Yes, sir, and he one of his
(04:52):
I like the poetry of the way he said this,
and I'm going to misquote it, but he said that.
He talked about being interested in what your kids are
doing right through. You know, don't leave them to their
own devices, have the conversation that the dinner table are present.
And then it says when they become young adults making
their own decisions, he said, you've earned that, that right
(05:13):
to speak into their lives. And it was that, and so,
in other words, don't ignore them in their teenage years
and suddenly go, no, you're not bloody while doing that,
because they'll say get stuffed.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Well, absolutely, and I think most of us, and you know,
psychology are kind of professions counseling would have suggested to
parents from the get go to try and nurture those
kind of connections with their children, to allow those pathways
of communication to be open, so that so that you
are you are present even when you're not physically present.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
You have instilled into.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Your kids the values that you would like them to
gravitate back to if they ever just walk off the
track and trail, because you know, there are a lot
of twists and turns in the journey that we call life.
But if you have instilled certain values and processes into
the way that you children behave and think, then they
are more more than likely. Research shows us to gravitate
(06:10):
back to what the family culture has been unless, as
you say, it had been very authoritarian and they really
want to rebel. So if you've taken a really nice
authoritative approach with your kids, a nice authoritative approach, no
authoritarian that's tougher, Authoritative is more flexible. So you've got
(06:30):
authoritarian being very inflexible, authoritative being flexible but still firm,
and you've got permissive where.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Parents let anything happen.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
But if you've taken that beautiful middle ground where you
have led by example positive example, where you have allowed
them to have a voice, particularly when they get into
those teenage years, and they feel like they really need
a voice, particularly in those teenage years where they are
gravitating away from their parents and closer toward their peer group,
and parents really feel you know that they are not
(07:01):
having quite as much impact. But if you are present,
if you are there to listen more than to speak
at them, then you will have secured I think, yeah,
a degree of being able to comment on those later years.
And I mean, if your daughter made that decision, I
believe that your daughter, given what you've told me about
the really good communications you have with your kids, she
(07:21):
would have only made that decision in concert with you know,
communications with you and you.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I'd be surprised if actually went off on the falcida,
to be honest, but.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Yeah, never know.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
But they listen, they would be well informed and there
would be a good, robust discussion going on.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I think the thing was, Yeah, you'd have the discussions interesting,
even just on the subject choices. And one of my daughters, actually,
I think the choices that she's making her good. But
there were a couple of questions I initially had but
and she was a bit stressed about that. But then
I said, well, I think X Y and Z, But
why don't you go and talk to two of the
teachers about that and get their feedback. And she did,
(07:57):
and then she came back and she changed my mind
on something fantastic. Course, and I you know, but sometimes
it doesn't. Everyone's got their own natural, authoritative way of
or lack thereof. I mean, actually, what was the moment?
What's the moment for you as a mum where you
you might not remember it because it might just be
a gradual process. But did you you remember a time going,
(08:19):
oh my goodness, they're growing up and I'm going to
have to let them do this one.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yes? Yeah, absolutely, And I can remember every single one.
I have four. Yeah, I have four.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And I can remember those moments because I do a
lot of reflecting and I often take a moment to
just sit in.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
I have a high you have to give yourself time out.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I have a very high energy level and naturally high
energy level. I'm like a Jurisale battery, and I am
very grateful for that. But I also identify that when
those moments come, I just need to step out, step back,
have a little bit of a think, see how I
feel with it.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
But I really.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Think that it's a great relationship you have with your
children if you can talk about it. And I remember
for each and every one of them actually being honest
enough to say, hey, man, I'm not totally comfortable with that.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
It might be rhythm es or something like that.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
You know, I don't know, but you know there are
those moments where you go, I'm actually not totally comfortable
with that.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Let's talk about it.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Let's see if you can make me feel comfortable about
about that, reassure me. And in every instance, you know,
they were absolutely fantastic, and so you know, you just
you just let go a bit. But letting go and
understanding that the child is becoming a teen and becoming
a you know, an adult, that doesn't mean that you're
(09:46):
parenting less. It may mean that you're parenting differently, because remember,
when they are little, they are dependent. They are looking
at you with those big white eyes, waiting to see
what you do, waiting to see how you handle situations,
waiting to model some of your hopefully good behaviors. But
you know, with their teenagers, they're not necessarily looking through
(10:08):
those big, unknowing white eyes. They're looking with questions. They're
wanting different kind of answers. They're taking on board what's
happening in the classroom, what's happening in the social media landscape,
what's happening with their peers. So parenting, but you know,
it's a very dynamic kind of thing, parenting and changing
all the time.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
That you mentioned rhythm and vines and without thinking any
particular festival. But if your kids were you know, say
not old enough to maybe go to certain things which
where their parents with some of their friends are going
to and it's working out that you know what. I'm sorry,
but you know the answer is going to be no.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
On this absolutely absolutely well.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I mean, you know, I think your listeners out there
would understand each family has a different family culture. We're
all very different where you know, parents come you know,
parents have their own backstories, they come together, they create
a family.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
There's a certain culture.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Things are acceptable for these families, things are unacceptable for
other families. You know, we're all so different. So as
parents we need to make a call. We actually need
to have a lot of courage sometimes. I mean, you know,
as a parent, it's not all about making really positive,
well decisions that your children might perceive as positive. Sometimes
(11:22):
you've got to be the bad guy because that speaks
to your values. It might be around alcohol consumption. That
certainly was one for me. I saw a lot of
parents giving their children alcohol. I couldn't work that one
through at very young ages. And I couldn't work that
one through because you're kind of priming your children to
want to drink if you're allowing it from a young age.
(11:44):
I think you've got to be really careful about that. Now,
the popular position on that would just be to allow
your kids to go along with it. But yeah, I
wasn't prepared to make that decision myself. I wasn't prepared
to let that happen. I wanted my kids to grow
up and to think, Okay, I want to choose alcohol
because I want to drink because I want to taste it.
(12:05):
I don't want my kids thinking that they have to
drink alcohol because somebody else is doing it, because they've
been pressured to do it because they think it's cool.
It's not necessarily cool. I wanted my children to make
decisions based on values and the right reasons, and also
I wanted them to make their own decisions without influence.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
What about actually, of course, the example I gave was
just to kick it off, was about the flotilla, the
young man going on the Flatilita Gaza. But the more
common example of challenging things for parents would be, say
your children choosing bad friends or that's right, or the
(12:46):
boyfriend or girlfriend who you think is you know, that's
a tricky one as well, but.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Interesting though, that's really interesting because when you know your
producer sends through the topics and I do a little
bit of research, I do a lot of thinking. I
take that time to reflect over what we're going to
talk about on Saturdays.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Good because you don't like to be too authority that
Sarah exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
But there were three things that kept coming up with
regard to parenting teens. The first one was if you
always compare yourself to others, you'll never find out who
you are. So parents should really try to enable within
their children that capacity to like themselves and to be,
(13:28):
you know, to back themselves, because if you always compare
yourself to others, you are not going to find out
who you are.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Now.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
The second tip that came up as a as a
very very popular and I think important and empowering tenant
throughout the research was pick your people your tribe, your
friends wisely in.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Your teenage years. Quite a journey that can be absolutely
it has for.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
One of my daughters. I mean, I think they've they've
got really good social connections. But it did take one
longer and take a long time, and it sort of
happened miraculously for us because we're you know, you're a
bit nervous that child's going to fit in the right place,
and all of a sudden it just happened. But I
don't even know if I don't even know how to
navigate one.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
It's a difficult one because you know, today there's a
lot of judgment, there's a lot of this needing to
be liked and getting likes. Being liked and on social
media doesn't necessarily mean you're a great person. It just
means that there are people out there who push a
button and it's very passive. But one of that, you
know that that tenant through the research was pick your
people wisely.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
How do you get to your children to pick their
people wisely? Because you never know what's going to well,
what direction they're going to be drawn and for the
right or the wrong reason.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Well, I will I will say that as a psychologist
I have seen some amazing parenting come to the four
when they have seen their children struggling, and they have
seen their children being influenced negatively, and they have had
the courage to step up and say, hey, listen, I've
just watched this connection that you're formed with X, Johnny so,
(15:05):
and boy, it doesn't seem to serve you that well,
you know, you're very anxious, what is what's going on?
Speaker 3 (15:12):
And just having those conversations.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Have you had to have those with I don't want
you to share your own no.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
No, and I'm not going to. I mean, I have
four children.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
I'm not saying, but I definitely know I've had those
conversations with.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
My own kids.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
How do they receive that?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Well, they listen because we've got I've got four children
who are just lovely and we have great relationship. So
they've received the communication most of the time. They've worked
with it. We've you know, they've talked to me about it.
I've made myself available. I haven't talked at them, I've
(15:47):
talked with them, and to be fair, as I mentioned before,
I've done a lot more listening. And so I suspect
it's like putting all the stuff in that funnel, you
start with a lot of information and you just it
just whittles away and you end up with something. And
sometimes my kids have chosen to still hang in with
a friendship that I didn't necessarily think was that great.
(16:09):
But they've figured it out. All of them have figured
it out. But it's an ongoing process, and as you say,
it's a journey.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Well, when I was young, I mean I made one
particularly very poor choice that I look back on and
I think, you know, with regret, but there was a
point where my mum, I think, just worked out that
she had to let it, let it play out, and
in the end, just know that she was there to
pick up the pieces of you.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Well, I mean I think that I have seen that
in my own children too, and I think I've seen
that in other kids and certainly through my practice. Absolutely,
But if you are able to just you know, I
have a few words, not heavy handedly, just say hey, listen,
this is my view, take it or leave it. I
think if you have instilled core values into your children,
and if your family culture is such that it's there's
(16:55):
some structure there, there's some strength, there's consistency of positive messaging,
then you've got a lot to.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Do on what about people who might be listening going
Sometimes you've just times you just got to tell your
kids this is the way it is. But I mean,
I guess that's when legally you have controlled there are times,
of course, but just leading to that period where if
you do too much of that, they hit eighteen and
then see you later.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Yeah, but then there are different levels of bad influences.
For example, if your child at thirteen has a kid
has a friendship where that child's influence is meaning that
your child is stealing things or you know, committing crime,
then you are as a parent going to have to say, hey, listen,
we live by rules and regulations. That that's what means
(17:35):
that society is not chaotic and an archaic. It is
you know, we can move forward positively. Certainly as a
parent you're going to have to lean into that. But
I mean, if the child you know isn't doing anything
injurious to your child, the other child or anyone else,
well you just watch it, don't you monitor? And as
you're mum did, sometimes you just let it play out.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
We would love to hear from you as well as
I know these are difficult things to share actually, because people,
if you're calling up, you're sharing a story about your kids,
it can be quite personal. But how did you make that?
How did you make that decision yourself as to it?
Was there a particular moment where you thought, you know what,
I'm not sure I'm keen on this decision, but they
need to I need to take my foot off, the
foot off the controls and let them take the wheel
(18:17):
a little bit. So what you know, If you'd like
to share with us how you made that decision to
take your hands off your your kids' controls in a way,
then give us a call. Eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty text nine nine two. Sarah Chapman from mind Works
is our guests this afternoon twenty six and a half
past five.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I can hear you were.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
When I'm dreaming you trying to skill telling you, let's
welcome back. This says the Parent's Squad News Talks. There'd
be Sarah chat want's my guest talking about taking your
foot off the controls when it comes to your kids.
That is it a gradual process for you? Was it
a gradual process or was it something that happened sort
(18:58):
of you? You you were the boss until they turned
eighty in and then over to them. And actually the
other question is it around should I mean, how much
control should you orould you want to exert over your kids? Control?
I hate the word, but how much influence do you
expect to have with your children once they've had eighteen?
Because to me, I mean, I think your parents are
(19:19):
your parents and forever until you know they've passed away,
and that I think my parents would have always had
some influence along the way. But that's because I value
whatt they had to say. If you want to be
one of those parents, maybe there's some clues into how
the parent and that so that is the outcome for you. Anyway,
let's take some calls. Sarah's with me and it's Peter
(19:40):
gooday o good.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I looked after friends during they went to Australia and
so get them in Viola said what time do you
want to be at school or what time do you
want to leave to go to school? And then the
parents then the sort of a bad day for the
panicking that the parents were there and the parents were
missing their kids deeply, and one of them wants to
get up early in the morning because that was the
day there right, and the other one wants to meet
(20:04):
them at the airport because I'll see them sooner that.
With kids, I noticed general things. Some parents play with
their kids, some don't. Some parents let kids choose an
activity whatever it is occasionally, and all take terms of
choosing an activity. And then you sort of see it
around careers where people get very stressed on kids' choices.
(20:26):
I've got to have extra mass lessons, and you're going
to be an accountant and all this sort of stuff.
Oh no, you can't be an artist or whatever it is.
How do you see the careers and opportunities and what's
your sort of response to that sort of subject.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I suppose I quite like to give children as many
opportunities as I can, and specifically with regard to listening
to children and seeing where they are at and what
direction they want to take with those kind of things.
And then I guess, irrespective of my preferences, whether it's
a career on maths or accounting or art or acting
(21:07):
or whatever, I'm not phased because I think, at the
end of the day, as parents, do we not want
our children to be happy with whatever they choose. But
if we can have conversations with them, work out their motivation,
work out the you know, the whether their choice is
going to be feasible in terms of will they be
able to have a career in that happily, talk through
(21:31):
the options with them, look at many options, and just
give them them a bit of you know, let them
have input because it is their life. But I do
like to yeah, I think I just like to keep
those pathways of communication open so that they know that
you're there and that you're interested.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I thought I had had a few texts from people
just around the flotilla itself. I thought maybe I've had
read one for entertainment. I'd rather my child was with
the idea than with Greta and the doom clowns. And
as a parent, I'd seriously ask myself how I raise
such an idiot? Actually, what if you do think that
you I mean, that your child is making some a
(22:07):
really bad decision.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I would hate to.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Think that you say that.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
But you can still say that to your child. You
don't have to say it like that and call people,
you know, the doom squad and squad and idiots. But
you can actually have a conversation with your child and say, hey, listen.
You know, I've got some concerns here and these are
what they are. You know, I'm concerned about your safety.
I don't know whether the message you're sending is is right.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Talk me through it. It doesn't.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
I don't think it's a conversation that needs to erode
or devolve into name calling and all the rest of it.
I just think you need to have a conversation, and
just you are allowed to have a say. You are
allowed as a parent to have an opinion, and you're
right with your comments before you are parenting until you die.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, you are. I I'd hate to think that my
girls wouldn't actually seek me out for the questions once
they're old enough to.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
I think they would. I think they will.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Katrina, Hi, Hello, Hello, Sorry.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
So, so, from my perspective, things happened very very quickly.
My son was at high school.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
He was in year.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
Twelve, and before we knew it, he had made it
past the recruitment side for going into the New Zealand Army.
Oh wonderful and wonderful, wonderful. So he was seventeen during
this was only just last year, seventeen during the whole
of his training, and just turned eighteen before he graduated.
What he had declared was he didn't want to go
(23:33):
dairy farming. We're dairy farmers, and he did want to
be involved in farming. And as much as so, I'm
trying to do calves and dogs, you're a.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Dairy farmer, you go girl, And.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
He declared he didn't want to be in the dairy farm.
I didn't ask to be raised a farm. I didn't
want to be.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
On a farm.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
And we computed from sheep to dairy, and you know,
he just left us, say, went to boarding school, and
before we knew it, he's at WAYOUU turning eighteen and
he's off and yep, as much as his father didn't
support it, I did. I keep saying, don't worry about
your father, don't worry about your father. I have your back.
If that's what you want to do, go and do it.
(24:14):
So we're now eighteen months later, you know, and is
at Burnham and getting on. He just loves that.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
I wanted to do a hug.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Well done, you were so courageous to have us back.
I want to hug you. So I'm sending that through
the microphone.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Thank you. Isn't that lovely?
Speaker 4 (24:33):
That your son is happy and that he's found something
that really, you know, is his vibe.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
So has it gone with the whole family then with
your husband and all that?
Speaker 5 (24:43):
Well, Jones goes through his moments and every time there's
something happens in Gaza or somewhere else, or you know,
we're going to be deployed and all sorts of things,
he gets a bit funny about it and stuff and he, yeah,
here's a bit funny about it. And I've got to say,
it's a military mum, because you learned to become a
military mum.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Did you have to get by the sorry? Did you
have to give a legal position permission at seventeen?
Speaker 5 (25:08):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah, okay, how did you sorry, I'm jumping in again.
How did you navigate that with your with your with
his father? Who did he make your father around?
Speaker 3 (25:18):
He came around.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
He came around because because because my son had said
that he didn't want to go to university, he didn't
want to live in a shitholder the tiger and accumulate
student debts. I mean, he knew all the things he
didn't want to do. And he loves to debate politics
and religion and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
We to a Catholic school.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
And and by the time he got to way Uru,
he had these amazing guys, you know, all these guys
older than him, and he just thought it was like
a posh boarding school and you just got to meet
the most incredible people. So I had to explain to
my husband, you know, this is what he has decided
to do. And just lately Burnham done a little stunt
at Linton. Now they went, I'm back at Linton because
(26:01):
you could member where my husband's like, oh oh, and
I'm like, no, he's now the skuy is He's fully
committed and that's what he wants to do. Lives in
barracks because I've persuaded him don't go fledding. Yes you
can play around the girls, but don't get a girlfriend,
because because when he did find he's going to Lindon,
she dumped them anyway. But it was kind of like, well,
(26:23):
just know you to think he was never going to
go anywhere because he loves it, because.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
It sounds like that even though you're his father didn't
want him to go, that his father still allowed him
to go. He sounds so he sounded like, I don't like,
so it's basically he said what he thought, but let
him make his own decision. Is that how it went?
Speaker 3 (26:41):
It is?
Speaker 5 (26:41):
It is because at the end of the day, and
I've got to say, there's a military mum. It's quite
a bizarre feeling. You've got to let your kids do
what their passion allows them to do. You've got to
keep them still, you know, legally doing stuff legal, but
if they don't follow the passion and stuff, you're just
going to get push back after push back after push back.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
And the thing is, he has made it quite clear
that he is so happy in this career. So as
a parent of a child to sage oh you know
an adult, you know you've just enabled that kid to
fulfill his dreams and that is just brilliant. So whatever
happens doesn't matter because your son is in control of
his own destiny with really supportive parents.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
That's it. And yes, yes, we're all going to dread it.
I even said here on farm. You will know when
he gets deployed. There will be a ripple effect on
that depending on where he goes. Yes, but we have
to support we have to support that because that's his
decision and.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
He what's a specialty.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
He was infantry, but because he was so young, he
didn't really have many life skills. So he's transferred into
transport into driving and he's sort of been doing logistics
and driving and so he'll get all his class one
to six and all that sort of stuff. I'm pretty
sure I haven't said his name, so I'm.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Not breaking out, No, I haven't.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
And he he's loved every esset is there, Like he
moved out, moved to Chaplain, from from Dunedin to Burnham
and all that sort of stuff. And even though he
could have gone off because it was during oh week
and flat week, could have bug it off and gone
and says no, that was his job, probably what he
wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
But I'm just thinking you probably wouldn't want him to
be volunteering to go to Ukraine in a few years time, though,
would you.
Speaker 5 (28:28):
They all want to go to Ukraine, and if.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
They want to go, and that's what they choose, that
is his decision they want.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
His parents are just supporting and of course you'll be
so anxious and there will be a lot of emotions
around that, but at the end of the day, you
know your boy is doing what.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
He loves absolutely, and he has a mate. He has
a mate that he did training anything with who does
have a brother who's doing that. So he kind of
knows about that in real time, but he knows that
that would just be a dumb thing to do. Right now,
he hasn't got the training. No, he hasn't got the training.
And so he's now got all these opportunities of going
to Linton, getting his career way underwecause he's now only nineteen,
(29:08):
why underway seeing the world, getting paid to do all that.
I mean, that's when he first started and graduating, He's like,
oh my god, mother, I can't believe they're paying me
to run around and be dirty old boys and being
barracks and everything else. Yeah, and hanging out for the
most coolest guys, good.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Stuff, trainer and where's dad at it with with it?
Speaker 5 (29:32):
Now he has here the stage, Like I said, something
will pop up in the media and he'll just go ah,
he just wants to go and kill himself. And I'm like, look,
you know you've got.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
To be feelings.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
I mean, any parent would have those feelings, and of
course you have fears and anxieties, but you know, this
is great. I think You've done a wonderful job and
I am so pleased to hear that your son is happy.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Good stuff. Yeah, that's fascinating cool. Thanks for you. We
really appreciate your calling, Katrina.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
As We'll be back in a moment. It's nineteen minutes
to six hand me some send me sipping quote shoo
nobo me living this me.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Trying to get away from me?
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Oh me still start singing and welcome back news talks.
There'd be This is the parents Squad. My guest is
Sarah chat when she's psychologist at mind Works. By the way,
how do people get in touch with people at mind
Works is.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Just at mind works dot code on ins and this
little email link, or they send us a text reach out.
If you have any questions, Query is happy to answer
and hopefully promptly. But yeah, just send an email through.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Hey should here's an interesting question. Should should you offer
your advice or should you wait for your kids to
ask for advice.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
It's a little bit of both, because as a parent,
you should have an eye on what they're doing. You
should be aware of you know, their context, who they're
hanging with, what they're seeing on social media. Because you know,
you take that role, that overarching, you know, watchful kind
of role so that you know what they're up to,
so that nothing shocks you. And if you feel that
(31:23):
there needs to be a conversation, if you feel that
you know something's a little bit awful, or if you
feel that they're particularly positive and you want to accentuate
that kind of vibe, well then you just step right.
And as a parent, you should have courage. You shouldn't
be afraid to ask questions or to have a conversation
and to actually be honest enough to say, hey, this
is how I'm feeling.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Should I be feeling this?
Speaker 1 (31:43):
What you better? Just to ask a question? If you
if you want to offer your advice, how would I
do it? If I wanted to offer my goods want
to hear it, I'd probably ask them a question about
something yes, and then that they'd probably go, why.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Dad, something else. You kind of cue that conversation.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
You you allude to something that might lead you on
the path of the conversation that you want to have.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
That's smart.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
It's funny with the authoritative thing because flexible parenting style
there is a little bit of missibility.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
No, I'm just thinking you know, and I was just
thinking about I was just segue into something other thought
in my head about about when parents still retain a
level quite a level of authority with their kids. For instance,
I thought about at one stage getting a motorbike, and
it would have been I would have been older than eighteen,
so free to do so. And my mum said to me,
she said, that's great, honey. Firstly, if you could just
(32:37):
firstly pay for a funeral plot and pay for all
the costs of your funeral, and with whatever money you've
got left over, you can go and buy that motorbike.
And I didn't buy the motorbike.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
But reality check.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
I guess your mum was all about reality check in
a fun kind of bandy way.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Which is lovely.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
It was fairly blunt.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
You've got to think about that stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Here's one of the texts. Somebody's calling us a hypocrite
for saying we didn't want people to go onto the
Flatilla versus Ukraine. No, no, no, you've missed it. We're just
talking about your kids making big decisions and how you
let them do it. Ultimately, you might have missed. Oh god, know,
this person's caught up with the politics of Palestine, so
I won't read anymore. Here's one that says Tim my
boys are fifteen and seventeen. One six foot four and
(33:20):
the other six foot six. I'm only five foot ten.
They laugh at me when I tell them what to do.
The big boys play for the New Zealand volleyball team
but also plays rugby for Canterbury, and he mocks me,
but jokingly we get on. Well, I'm not telling him
in it. I'm not telling him. Jack says, Mars. Actually,
funny thing is, Mars, I know plenty of parents who
are diminutive next to their colossal children, and they still
(33:42):
have absolute authority out of their kids because.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Well, it's like the parents have a role. They're at
the top of the hierarchy, no matter how tall they are.
Height is not a discriminating factor in that equation.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Here's another, guys, please don't read out my name, okay,
making a note that I'm an auntie being kept out
of the picture of the girl's life for the past
five years. She's now fifteen, dropped out of school, no
idea of circumstances. Bright wanted to be a professional and
the professions a lawyer or doctor or whatever. I've just
said that she can call me at any time if
she needs me. Is there anything more I can do?
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Well, that's a lovely thing to do and to make
yourself available, and of course if you have the opportunity
to revisit that and just say, hey, listen, you know,
I think you're so cool. Perhaps you know, I just
think there could be more to life for you at
this moment if you want to talk to me. But
it's very, very tricky when she's got parents that are
(34:35):
not necessarily she's the auntie.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
One I could say. I could say, look, I'm a
little worried the choices you made, but you're welcome to
do whatever if you want to talk.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
That's right then, just exactly right.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Maybe you could say you're worried, just say you're worried,
but look you're not. She's free to do what she wants,
but you've heard to talk.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Is there a barrier between the aunt and the parents,
because could the aunt also talk to the parents and say, hey, listen,
I really love my niece. I just feel that perhaps
she's not, you know, realizing her potential.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Is there anything I could help with?
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, it might be other family, don't Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
May be another dynamic at play. But good on you
for just reaching out.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Good to thrash it out, isn't it. Hey, time's flown already, Sarah,
So when.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
You're having fun, and thank you very much and I
appreciate you. Tim.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
New Zealand has seen some pretty hard times over the
past few months and it's always lovely to come and
have these conversations because there's a lot of feedback that
I get about parents welcoming and embracing the conversations that
you have with myself and other guess that's very coody.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
So thank you, Ti you Okay.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Hey, thanks, Oh I don't know what to do with that.
Just anyway, Hey you a little bit read?
Speaker 3 (35:36):
That's okay.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Thanks for listening everyone. We'll be back to Wrap Sports
with Elliot Smith who's over in Perth. We'll be back
with the Sports wrapp in just a Moment's ten and
a half and it's six for.
Speaker 5 (35:46):
More from the weekend Collective.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Listen live to news Talks it'd be weekends from three
pm or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks,
I'd be as you know, parents, squad kids, they grow up,
the bleeding obvious, isn't it. But there's that moment or
moments that happened during the course of whether it's of
letting your kids make their own decision and relinquishing the
gradual relinquishment of control, or for some parents it might
(00:28):
actually be sudden because you might have been very authoritarian
and then suddenly when your kids old enough to leave
home they see him, I'm and doubt, I'm off to
do my own thing. So the reason we thought of
having a chat about this was, and this is without
a sense of judgment. I heard the interview with the
father of the young man who was on the Gaza flotilla,
and Sam Leeson was the was the young man's name.
(00:50):
He was eighteen years old and he was part of
that recent flotilla that went to Gaza, and which would
have if I was a parent, if one of my
children was on that flotilla, I would be I would
be petrified because you never know what can happen. It's
you know, there's alia military and all that sort of thing.
And without getting too political. And one of his comments was,
(01:10):
I think here there was chatting to him, the sister
the father, and said asked if the questions around how
comfortably he was, whether did you tell him he shouldn't
go and all that, And I'm not sure he actually
particularly answered that question explicitly, but he did say, of course,
you know, you know what it's like when you've got teenagers.
They do exactly what you want. And obviously he was
(01:31):
being sarcastic and saying that, and the indication was that
this young man Sam was going to do whatever he
wanted and he believed in it passionately. So off he went.
And so maybe at eighteen they can make their own decisions.
Well not maybe they legally can make their own decisions.
But it does raise that question as to how do
you get to that point where they are ready to
(01:53):
make all the decisions for themselves. So at what point
do you start to relinquish control or let them have
more of a say?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
You know?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
And as I say, you know, and when they're just
a handful of years old, it might be letting them
choose the flavor of their own ice cream, and later
on it might be letting them have more of a say,
and what subjects they want to study, what career choices
they're going to make. So when did you? When did you?
What was the process for you taking your hands off
the controls for your kids? And to be honest, I
(02:24):
don't think any parent ever relinquishes what they would their
interest in their children's upbringing. But to discuss that, that's
a long introduction. I haven't got around whom my guests.
She's from mind Works, Sarah chat One. Hello, Sarah, how
are you?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I am your esteemed guest. I'm very well, Thank you, Tom.
It's an interesting one, huh.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Because we are going through a little bit of a
journey with our girls. So mine are twelve fourteen, going
on thirteen to fifteen. And one of the things that's
almost helped us is at the school that my girls
go to. So my fourteen year old for next year
chooses a few more elective subjects. But the rules are
(03:06):
the way it's formatted is that the link is not
available for parents to make that choice. So there are
three or four choices they can make, and it's actually
the school has sent a very strong signal to the
parents that this is a student, this is a student's choice,
and I quite like that because even though often kids
will be like, well what do you think, Mum, what
(03:27):
do you think? Dad? And mum and dad might have
a strong recommendation, they might feel they need to follow it. Ultimately,
I like that there's that signal like, let them make
that choice.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
I'm not even going to play Devil's advocate there. I
think that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Now.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
I do think that it's there is the risk that
some students will not communicate with their parents, so perhaps
the parent might get a bit of a shock with
the choices, but I think most people, I really hope
that most people are having discussions and chats and talks
with their children from about you know, age eleven, twelve thirteen,
(04:04):
about you know, what kind of subjects resonate for you,
What do you feel like you want to do for
your future? What kind of things do you like in
terms of where they're going with career choices. So hopefully
those conversations are happening so that when a child comes
to pick their subjects and look at those options that
the school gives them and only them, you know, they
(04:24):
make the right ones for them because ultimately it's their
life they're living.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
So yeah, I do like that too.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Because, to be honest, if my daughter was eighteen and
she said I want to go on the flatilitant to Gaza,
I'd be like, no, bloody way, But of course I
could stop. But see there is I'm going to again
quote for the unpteenth time one of my favorite expressions
from Ian Grant, who is one of the founders of
The Parenting Place. Yes, sir, and he one of his
(04:52):
I like the poetry of the way he said this,
and I'm going to misquote it, but he said that.
He talked about being interested in what your kids are
doing right through. You know, don't leave them to their
own devices, have the conversation that the dinner table are present.
And then it says when they become young adults making
their own decisions, he said, you've earned that, that right
(05:13):
to speak into their lives. And it was that, and so,
in other words, don't ignore them in their teenage years
and suddenly go, no, you're not bloody while doing that,
because they'll say get stuffed.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Well, absolutely, and I think most of us, and you know,
psychology are kind of professions counseling would have suggested to
parents from the get go to try and nurture those
kind of connections with their children, to allow those pathways
of communication to be open, so that so that you
are you are present even when you're not physically present.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
You have instilled into.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Your kids the values that you would like them to
gravitate back to if they ever just walk off the
track and trail, because you know, there are a lot
of twists and turns in the journey that we call life.
But if you have instilled certain values and processes into
the way that you children behave and think, then they
are more more than likely. Research shows us to gravitate
(06:10):
back to what the family culture has been unless, as
you say, it had been very authoritarian and they really
want to rebel. So if you've taken a really nice
authoritative approach with your kids, a nice authoritative approach, no
authoritarian that's tougher, Authoritative is more flexible. So you've got
(06:30):
authoritarian being very inflexible, authoritative being flexible but still firm,
and you've got permissive where.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Parents let anything happen.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
But if you've taken that beautiful middle ground where you
have led by example positive example, where you have allowed
them to have a voice, particularly when they get into
those teenage years, and they feel like they really need
a voice, particularly in those teenage years where they are
gravitating away from their parents and closer toward their peer group,
and parents really feel you know that they are not
(07:01):
having quite as much impact. But if you are present,
if you are there to listen more than to speak
at them, then you will have secured I think, yeah,
a degree of being able to comment on those later years.
And I mean, if your daughter made that decision, I
believe that your daughter, given what you've told me about
the really good communications you have with your kids, she
(07:21):
would have only made that decision in concert with you know,
communications with you and you.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I'd be surprised if actually went off on the falcida,
to be honest, but.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Yeah, never know.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
But they listen, they would be well informed and there
would be a good, robust discussion going on.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I think the thing was, Yeah, you'd have the discussions interesting,
even just on the subject choices. And one of my daughters, actually,
I think the choices that she's making her good. But
there were a couple of questions I initially had but
and she was a bit stressed about that. But then
I said, well, I think X Y and Z, But
why don't you go and talk to two of the
teachers about that and get their feedback. And she did,
(07:57):
and then she came back and she changed my mind
on something fantastic. Course, and I you know, but sometimes
it doesn't. Everyone's got their own natural, authoritative way of
or lack thereof. I mean, actually, what was the moment?
What's the moment for you as a mum where you
you might not remember it because it might just be
a gradual process. But did you you remember a time going,
(08:19):
oh my goodness, they're growing up and I'm going to
have to let them do this one.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yes? Yeah, absolutely, And I can remember every single one.
I have four. Yeah, I have four.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And I can remember those moments because I do a
lot of reflecting and I often take a moment to
just sit in.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
I have a high you have to give yourself time out.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I have a very high energy level and naturally high
energy level. I'm like a Jurisale battery, and I am
very grateful for that. But I also identify that when
those moments come, I just need to step out, step back,
have a little bit of a think, see how I
feel with it.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
But I really.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Think that it's a great relationship you have with your
children if you can talk about it. And I remember
for each and every one of them actually being honest
enough to say, hey, man, I'm not totally comfortable with that.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
It might be rhythm es or something like that.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
You know, I don't know, but you know there are
those moments where you go, I'm actually not totally comfortable
with that.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Let's talk about it.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Let's see if you can make me feel comfortable about
about that, reassure me. And in every instance, you know,
they were absolutely fantastic, and so you know, you just
you just let go a bit. But letting go and
understanding that the child is becoming a teen and becoming
a you know, an adult, that doesn't mean that you're
(09:46):
parenting less. It may mean that you're parenting differently, because remember,
when they are little, they are dependent. They are looking
at you with those big white eyes, waiting to see
what you do, waiting to see how you handle situations,
waiting to model some of your hopefully good behaviors. But
you know, with their teenagers, they're not necessarily looking through
(10:08):
those big, unknowing white eyes. They're looking with questions. They're
wanting different kind of answers. They're taking on board what's
happening in the classroom, what's happening in the social media landscape,
what's happening with their peers. So parenting, but you know,
it's a very dynamic kind of thing, parenting and changing
all the time.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
That you mentioned rhythm and vines and without thinking any
particular festival. But if your kids were you know, say
not old enough to maybe go to certain things which
where their parents with some of their friends are going
to and it's working out that you know what. I'm sorry,
but you know the answer is going to be no.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
On this absolutely absolutely well.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I mean, you know, I think your listeners out there
would understand each family has a different family culture. We're
all very different where you know, parents come you know,
parents have their own backstories, they come together, they create
a family.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
There's a certain culture.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Things are acceptable for these families, things are unacceptable for
other families. You know, we're all so different. So as
parents we need to make a call. We actually need
to have a lot of courage sometimes. I mean, you know,
as a parent, it's not all about making really positive,
well decisions that your children might perceive as positive. Sometimes
(11:22):
you've got to be the bad guy because that speaks
to your values. It might be around alcohol consumption. That
certainly was one for me. I saw a lot of
parents giving their children alcohol. I couldn't work that one
through at very young ages. And I couldn't work that
one through because you're kind of priming your children to
want to drink if you're allowing it from a young age.
(11:44):
I think you've got to be really careful about that. Now,
the popular position on that would just be to allow
your kids to go along with it. But yeah, I
wasn't prepared to make that decision myself. I wasn't prepared
to let that happen. I wanted my kids to grow
up and to think, Okay, I want to choose alcohol
because I want to drink because I want to taste it.
(12:05):
I don't want my kids thinking that they have to
drink alcohol because somebody else is doing it, because they've
been pressured to do it because they think it's cool.
It's not necessarily cool. I wanted my children to make
decisions based on values and the right reasons, and also
I wanted them to make their own decisions without influence.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
What about actually, of course, the example I gave was
just to kick it off, was about the flotilla, the
young man going on the Flatilita Gaza. But the more
common example of challenging things for parents would be, say
your children choosing bad friends or that's right, or the
(12:46):
boyfriend or girlfriend who you think is you know, that's
a tricky one as well, but.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Interesting though, that's really interesting because when you know your
producer sends through the topics and I do a little
bit of research, I do a lot of thinking. I
take that time to reflect over what we're going to
talk about on Saturdays.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Good because you don't like to be too authority that
Sarah exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
But there were three things that kept coming up with
regard to parenting teens. The first one was if you
always compare yourself to others, you'll never find out who
you are. So parents should really try to enable within
their children that capacity to like themselves and to be,
(13:28):
you know, to back themselves, because if you always compare
yourself to others, you are not going to find out
who you are.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Now.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
The second tip that came up as a as a
very very popular and I think important and empowering tenant
throughout the research was pick your people your tribe, your
friends wisely in.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Your teenage years. Quite a journey that can be absolutely
it has for.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
One of my daughters. I mean, I think they've they've
got really good social connections. But it did take one
longer and take a long time, and it sort of
happened miraculously for us because we're you know, you're a
bit nervous that child's going to fit in the right place,
and all of a sudden it just happened. But I
don't even know if I don't even know how to
navigate one.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
It's a difficult one because you know, today there's a
lot of judgment, there's a lot of this needing to
be liked and getting likes. Being liked and on social
media doesn't necessarily mean you're a great person. It just
means that there are people out there who push a
button and it's very passive. But one of that, you
know that that tenant through the research was pick your
people wisely.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
How do you get to your children to pick their
people wisely? Because you never know what's going to well,
what direction they're going to be drawn and for the
right or the wrong reason.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Well, I will I will say that as a psychologist
I have seen some amazing parenting come to the four
when they have seen their children struggling, and they have
seen their children being influenced negatively, and they have had
the courage to step up and say, hey, listen, I've
just watched this connection that you're formed with X, Johnny so,
(15:05):
and boy, it doesn't seem to serve you that well,
you know, you're very anxious, what is what's going on?
Speaker 3 (15:12):
And just having those conversations.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Have you had to have those with I don't want
you to share your own no.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
No, and I'm not going to. I mean, I have
four children.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
I'm not saying, but I definitely know I've had those
conversations with.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
My own kids.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
How do they receive that?
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Well, they listen because we've got I've got four children
who are just lovely and we have great relationship. So
they've received the communication most of the time. They've worked
with it. We've you know, they've talked to me about it.
I've made myself available. I haven't talked at them, I've
(15:47):
talked with them, and to be fair, as I mentioned before,
I've done a lot more listening. And so I suspect
it's like putting all the stuff in that funnel, you
start with a lot of information and you just it
just whittles away and you end up with something. And
sometimes my kids have chosen to still hang in with
a friendship that I didn't necessarily think was that great.
(16:09):
But they've figured it out. All of them have figured
it out. But it's an ongoing process, and as you say,
it's a journey.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Well, when I was young, I mean I made one
particularly very poor choice that I look back on and
I think, you know, with regret, but there was a
point where my mum, I think, just worked out that
she had to let it, let it play out, and
in the end, just know that she was there to
pick up the pieces of you.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Well, I mean I think that I have seen that
in my own children too, and I think I've seen
that in other kids and certainly through my practice. Absolutely,
But if you are able to just you know, I
have a few words, not heavy handedly, just say hey, listen,
this is my view, take it or leave it. I
think if you have instilled core values into your children,
and if your family culture is such that it's there's
(16:55):
some structure there, there's some strength, there's consistency of positive messaging,
then you've got a lot to.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Do on what about people who might be listening going
Sometimes you've just times you just got to tell your
kids this is the way it is. But I mean,
I guess that's when legally you have controlled there are times,
of course, but just leading to that period where if
you do too much of that, they hit eighteen and
then see you later.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Yeah, but then there are different levels of bad influences.
For example, if your child at thirteen has a kid
has a friendship where that child's influence is meaning that
your child is stealing things or you know, committing crime,
then you are as a parent going to have to say, hey, listen,
we live by rules and regulations. That that's what means
(17:35):
that society is not chaotic and an archaic. It is
you know, we can move forward positively. Certainly as a
parent you're going to have to lean into that. But
I mean, if the child you know isn't doing anything
injurious to your child, the other child or anyone else,
well you just watch it, don't you monitor? And as
you're mum did, sometimes you just let it play out.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
We would love to hear from you as well as
I know these are difficult things to share actually, because people,
if you're calling up, you're sharing a story about your kids,
it can be quite personal. But how did you make that?
How did you make that decision yourself as to it?
Was there a particular moment where you thought, you know what,
I'm not sure I'm keen on this decision, but they
need to I need to take my foot off, the
foot off the controls and let them take the wheel
(18:17):
a little bit. So what you know, If you'd like
to share with us how you made that decision to
take your hands off your your kids' controls in a way,
then give us a call. Eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty text nine nine two. Sarah Chapman from mind Works
is our guests this afternoon twenty six and a half
past five.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I can hear you were.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
When I'm dreaming you trying to skill telling you, let's
welcome back. This says the Parent's Squad News Talks. There'd
be Sarah chat want's my guest talking about taking your
foot off the controls when it comes to your kids.
That is it a gradual process for you? Was it
a gradual process or was it something that happened sort
(18:58):
of you? You you were the boss until they turned
eighty in and then over to them. And actually the
other question is it around should I mean, how much
control should you orould you want to exert over your kids? Control?
I hate the word, but how much influence do you
expect to have with your children once they've had eighteen?
Because to me, I mean, I think your parents are
(19:19):
your parents and forever until you know they've passed away,
and that I think my parents would have always had
some influence along the way. But that's because I value
whatt they had to say. If you want to be
one of those parents, maybe there's some clues into how
the parent and that so that is the outcome for you. Anyway,
let's take some calls. Sarah's with me and it's Peter
(19:40):
gooday o good.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I looked after friends during they went to Australia and
so get them in Viola said what time do you
want to be at school or what time do you
want to leave to go to school? And then the
parents then the sort of a bad day for the
panicking that the parents were there and the parents were
missing their kids deeply, and one of them wants to
get up early in the morning because that was the
day there right, and the other one wants to meet
(20:04):
them at the airport because I'll see them sooner that.
With kids, I noticed general things. Some parents play with
their kids, some don't. Some parents let kids choose an
activity whatever it is occasionally, and all take terms of
choosing an activity. And then you sort of see it
around careers where people get very stressed on kids' choices.
(20:26):
I've got to have extra mass lessons, and you're going
to be an accountant and all this sort of stuff.
Oh no, you can't be an artist or whatever it is.
How do you see the careers and opportunities and what's
your sort of response to that sort of subject.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I suppose I quite like to give children as many
opportunities as I can, and specifically with regard to listening
to children and seeing where they are at and what
direction they want to take with those kind of things.
And then I guess, irrespective of my preferences, whether it's
a career on maths or accounting or art or acting
(21:07):
or whatever, I'm not phased because I think, at the
end of the day, as parents, do we not want
our children to be happy with whatever they choose. But
if we can have conversations with them, work out their motivation,
work out the you know, the whether their choice is
going to be feasible in terms of will they be
able to have a career in that happily, talk through
(21:31):
the options with them, look at many options, and just
give them them a bit of you know, let them
have input because it is their life. But I do
like to yeah, I think I just like to keep
those pathways of communication open so that they know that
you're there and that you're interested.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I thought I had had a few texts from people
just around the flotilla itself. I thought maybe I've had
read one for entertainment. I'd rather my child was with
the idea than with Greta and the doom clowns. And
as a parent, I'd seriously ask myself how I raise
such an idiot? Actually, what if you do think that
you I mean, that your child is making some a
(22:07):
really bad decision.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I would hate to.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Think that you say that.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
But you can still say that to your child. You
don't have to say it like that and call people,
you know, the doom squad and squad and idiots. But
you can actually have a conversation with your child and say, hey, listen.
You know, I've got some concerns here and these are
what they are. You know, I'm concerned about your safety.
I don't know whether the message you're sending is is right.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Talk me through it. It doesn't.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
I don't think it's a conversation that needs to erode
or devolve into name calling and all the rest of it.
I just think you need to have a conversation, and
just you are allowed to have a say. You are
allowed as a parent to have an opinion, and you're
right with your comments before you are parenting until you die.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, you are. I I'd hate to think that my
girls wouldn't actually seek me out for the questions once
they're old enough to.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
I think they would. I think they will.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Katrina, Hi, Hello, Hello, Sorry.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Right.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
So, so, from my perspective, things happened very very quickly.
My son was at high school.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
He was in year.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
Twelve, and before we knew it, he had made it
past the recruitment side for going into the New Zealand Army.
Oh wonderful and wonderful, wonderful. So he was seventeen during
this was only just last year, seventeen during the whole
of his training, and just turned eighteen before he graduated.
What he had declared was he didn't want to go
(23:33):
dairy farming. We're dairy farmers, and he did want to
be involved in farming. And as much as so, I'm
trying to do calves and dogs, you're a.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Dairy farmer, you go girl, And.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
He declared he didn't want to be in the dairy farm.
I didn't ask to be raised a farm. I didn't
want to be.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
On a farm.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
And we computed from sheep to dairy, and you know,
he just left us, say, went to boarding school, and
before we knew it, he's at WAYOUU turning eighteen and
he's off and yep, as much as his father didn't
support it, I did. I keep saying, don't worry about
your father, don't worry about your father. I have your back.
If that's what you want to do, go and do it.
(24:14):
So we're now eighteen months later, you know, and is
at Burnham and getting on. He just loves that.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
I wanted to do a hug.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Well done, you were so courageous to have us back.
I want to hug you. So I'm sending that through
the microphone.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Thank you. Isn't that lovely?
Speaker 4 (24:33):
That your son is happy and that he's found something
that really, you know, is his vibe.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
So has it gone with the whole family then with
your husband and all that?
Speaker 5 (24:43):
Well, Jones goes through his moments and every time there's
something happens in Gaza or somewhere else, or you know,
we're going to be deployed and all sorts of things,
he gets a bit funny about it and stuff and he, yeah,
here's a bit funny about it. And I've got to say,
it's a military mum, because you learned to become a
military mum.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Did you have to get by the sorry? Did you
have to give a legal position permission at seventeen?
Speaker 5 (25:08):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah, okay, how did you sorry, I'm jumping in again.
How did you navigate that with your with your with
his father? Who did he make your father around?
Speaker 3 (25:18):
He came around.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
He came around because because because my son had said
that he didn't want to go to university, he didn't
want to live in a shitholder the tiger and accumulate
student debts. I mean, he knew all the things he
didn't want to do. And he loves to debate politics
and religion and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
We to a Catholic school.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
And and by the time he got to way Uru,
he had these amazing guys, you know, all these guys
older than him, and he just thought it was like
a posh boarding school and you just got to meet
the most incredible people. So I had to explain to
my husband, you know, this is what he has decided
to do. And just lately Burnham done a little stunt
at Linton. Now they went, I'm back at Linton because
(26:01):
you could member where my husband's like, oh oh, and
I'm like, no, he's now the skuy is He's fully
committed and that's what he wants to do. Lives in
barracks because I've persuaded him don't go fledding. Yes you
can play around the girls, but don't get a girlfriend,
because because when he did find he's going to Lindon,
she dumped them anyway. But it was kind of like, well,
(26:23):
just know you to think he was never going to
go anywhere because he loves it, because.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
It sounds like that even though you're his father didn't
want him to go, that his father still allowed him
to go. He sounds so he sounded like, I don't like,
so it's basically he said what he thought, but let
him make his own decision. Is that how it went?
Speaker 3 (26:41):
It is?
Speaker 5 (26:41):
It is because at the end of the day, and
I've got to say, there's a military mum. It's quite
a bizarre feeling. You've got to let your kids do
what their passion allows them to do. You've got to
keep them still, you know, legally doing stuff legal, but
if they don't follow the passion and stuff, you're just
going to get push back after push back after push back.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
And the thing is, he has made it quite clear
that he is so happy in this career. So as
a parent of a child to sage oh you know
an adult, you know you've just enabled that kid to
fulfill his dreams and that is just brilliant. So whatever
happens doesn't matter because your son is in control of
his own destiny with really supportive parents.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
That's it. And yes, yes, we're all going to dread it.
I even said here on farm. You will know when
he gets deployed. There will be a ripple effect on
that depending on where he goes. Yes, but we have
to support we have to support that because that's his
decision and.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
He what's a specialty.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
He was infantry, but because he was so young, he
didn't really have many life skills. So he's transferred into
transport into driving and he's sort of been doing logistics
and driving and so he'll get all his class one
to six and all that sort of stuff. I'm pretty
sure I haven't said his name, so I'm.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Not breaking out, No, I haven't.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
And he he's loved every esset is there, Like he
moved out, moved to Chaplain, from from Dunedin to Burnham
and all that sort of stuff. And even though he
could have gone off because it was during oh week
and flat week, could have bug it off and gone
and says no, that was his job, probably what he
wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
But I'm just thinking you probably wouldn't want him to
be volunteering to go to Ukraine in a few years time, though,
would you.
Speaker 5 (28:28):
They all want to go to Ukraine, and if.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
They want to go, and that's what they choose, that
is his decision they want.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
His parents are just supporting and of course you'll be
so anxious and there will be a lot of emotions
around that, but at the end of the day, you
know your boy is doing what.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
He loves absolutely, and he has a mate. He has
a mate that he did training anything with who does
have a brother who's doing that. So he kind of
knows about that in real time, but he knows that
that would just be a dumb thing to do. Right now,
he hasn't got the training. No, he hasn't got the training.
And so he's now got all these opportunities of going
to Linton, getting his career way underwecause he's now only nineteen,
(29:08):
why underway seeing the world, getting paid to do all that.
I mean, that's when he first started and graduating, He's like,
oh my god, mother, I can't believe they're paying me
to run around and be dirty old boys and being
barracks and everything else. Yeah, and hanging out for the
most coolest guys, good.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Stuff, trainer and where's dad at it with with it?
Speaker 5 (29:32):
Now he has here the stage, Like I said, something
will pop up in the media and he'll just go ah,
he just wants to go and kill himself. And I'm like, look,
you know you've got.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
To be feelings.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
I mean, any parent would have those feelings, and of
course you have fears and anxieties, but you know, this
is great. I think You've done a wonderful job and
I am so pleased to hear that your son is happy.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Good stuff. Yeah, that's fascinating cool. Thanks for you. We
really appreciate your calling, Katrina.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
As We'll be back in a moment. It's nineteen minutes
to six hand me some send me sipping quote shoo
nobo me living this me.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Trying to get away from me?
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Oh me still start singing and welcome back news talks.
There'd be This is the parents Squad. My guest is
Sarah chat when she's psychologist at mind Works. By the way,
how do people get in touch with people at mind
Works is.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Just at mind works dot code on ins and this
little email link, or they send us a text reach out.
If you have any questions, Query is happy to answer
and hopefully promptly. But yeah, just send an email through.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Hey should here's an interesting question. Should should you offer
your advice or should you wait for your kids to
ask for advice.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
It's a little bit of both, because as a parent,
you should have an eye on what they're doing. You
should be aware of you know, their context, who they're
hanging with, what they're seeing on social media. Because you know,
you take that role, that overarching, you know, watchful kind
of role so that you know what they're up to,
so that nothing shocks you. And if you feel that
(31:23):
there needs to be a conversation, if you feel that
you know something's a little bit awful, or if you
feel that they're particularly positive and you want to accentuate
that kind of vibe, well then you just step right.
And as a parent, you should have courage. You shouldn't
be afraid to ask questions or to have a conversation
and to actually be honest enough to say, hey, this
is how I'm feeling.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Should I be feeling this?
Speaker 1 (31:43):
What you better? Just to ask a question? If you
if you want to offer your advice, how would I
do it? If I wanted to offer my goods want
to hear it, I'd probably ask them a question about
something yes, and then that they'd probably go, why.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Dad, something else. You kind of cue that conversation.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
You you allude to something that might lead you on
the path of the conversation that you want to have.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
That's smart.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
It's funny with the authoritative thing because flexible parenting style
there is a little bit of missibility.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
No, I'm just thinking you know, and I was just
thinking about I was just segue into something other thought
in my head about about when parents still retain a
level quite a level of authority with their kids. For instance,
I thought about at one stage getting a motorbike, and
it would have been I would have been older than eighteen,
so free to do so. And my mum said to me,
she said, that's great, honey. Firstly, if you could just
(32:37):
firstly pay for a funeral plot and pay for all
the costs of your funeral, and with whatever money you've
got left over, you can go and buy that motorbike.
And I didn't buy the motorbike.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
But reality check.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
I guess your mum was all about reality check in
a fun kind of bandy way.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Which is lovely.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
It was fairly blunt.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
You've got to think about that stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Here's one of the texts. Somebody's calling us a hypocrite
for saying we didn't want people to go onto the
Flatilla versus Ukraine. No, no, no, you've missed it. We're just
talking about your kids making big decisions and how you
let them do it. Ultimately, you might have missed. Oh god, know,
this person's caught up with the politics of Palestine, so
I won't read anymore. Here's one that says Tim my
boys are fifteen and seventeen. One six foot four and
(33:20):
the other six foot six. I'm only five foot ten.
They laugh at me when I tell them what to do.
The big boys play for the New Zealand volleyball team
but also plays rugby for Canterbury, and he mocks me,
but jokingly we get on. Well, I'm not telling him
in it. I'm not telling him. Jack says, Mars. Actually,
funny thing is, Mars, I know plenty of parents who
are diminutive next to their colossal children, and they still
(33:42):
have absolute authority out of their kids because.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Well, it's like the parents have a role. They're at
the top of the hierarchy, no matter how tall they are.
Height is not a discriminating factor in that equation.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Here's another, guys, please don't read out my name, okay,
making a note that I'm an auntie being kept out
of the picture of the girl's life for the past
five years. She's now fifteen, dropped out of school, no
idea of circumstances. Bright wanted to be a professional and
the professions a lawyer or doctor or whatever. I've just
said that she can call me at any time if
she needs me. Is there anything more I can do?
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Well, that's a lovely thing to do and to make
yourself available, and of course if you have the opportunity
to revisit that and just say, hey, listen, you know,
I think you're so cool. Perhaps you know, I just
think there could be more to life for you at
this moment if you want to talk to me. But
it's very, very tricky when she's got parents that are
(34:35):
not necessarily she's the auntie.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
One I could say. I could say, look, I'm a
little worried the choices you made, but you're welcome to
do whatever if you want to talk.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
That's right then, just exactly right.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Maybe you could say you're worried, just say you're worried,
but look you're not. She's free to do what she wants,
but you've heard to talk.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Is there a barrier between the aunt and the parents,
because could the aunt also talk to the parents and say, hey, listen,
I really love my niece. I just feel that perhaps
she's not, you know, realizing her potential.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Is there anything I could help with?
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, it might be other family, don't Yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
May be another dynamic at play. But good on you
for just reaching out.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Good to thrash it out, isn't it. Hey, time's flown already, Sarah,
So when.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
You're having fun, and thank you very much and I
appreciate you. Tim.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
New Zealand has seen some pretty hard times over the
past few months and it's always lovely to come and
have these conversations because there's a lot of feedback that
I get about parents welcoming and embracing the conversations that
you have with myself and other guess that's very coody.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
So thank you, Ti you Okay.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Hey, thanks, Oh I don't know what to do with that.
Just anyway, Hey you a little bit read?
Speaker 3 (35:36):
That's okay.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Thanks for listening everyone. We'll be back to Wrap Sports
with Elliot Smith who's over in Perth. We'll be back
with the Sports wrapp in just a Moment's ten and
a half and it's six for.
Speaker 5 (35:46):
More from the weekend Collective.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Listen live to news Talks it'd be weekends from three
pm or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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