June 19, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of Move the Sticks, Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks take a closer look at quarterbacks around the league in a “trucks or trailers” discussion, identifying which players pull the offense forward and which are being pulled by it. They then shift focus to seven of the NFL’s most enigmatic talents, players who flash high-level ability but have yet to consistently deliver.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the sticks? DJ, Buck
with you, Buck?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
What is the word? Man? Now, I've been when the
dog days of summer, all the caps are done. We're
over here trying to figure out what we talk about.
Great content about things it wasn't I get. I can
tell that we're in the dog days of summer when
people dig up old tweets. Oh gosh, my old tweets,
treat them out and be like, hey, any update on
the playoff tears? No, we're not in the playoffs. You
(00:33):
talk about whatever I said about the quarterbacks into tears,
but I'm not gonna apologize for it because that was
the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And so yeah, if I remember correctly, By the way,
we haven't talked about this since. I remember you getting
the most grief for the love you gave to Jade
and Daniels, who ended up taking that team on the
brink of a Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
But I put Jalen Hurts into three. Oh Okay, I
get flat for that because they won the Super Bowl.
So that is that is his thing. But look, I
don't mind, Like, if you want to talk about it,
make content. There's nothing to talk about, So issuing a
rebuttal just allowed us to eat up five minutes on
the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, there you go. Thank you very much. We appreciate
your services. Today we're gonna hit on an article Buck
wrote on some of the enigmas coming into the season.
So the great unknowns, the great mysteries, I believe was seven. Uh,
if I'm not mistaken Buck, So I didn't get to
the magic number of seven on that front. But you
mentioned we started talking about quarterbacks there for a segment
Jaydon Daniels and with Jalen Hurts. That's going to lead
(01:31):
me into what I wanted.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
To do with the at the top here.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Because we always talk about trucks and trailers we mentioned
on a previous episode. I thought, man, we need to
refresh us. We haven't done this in a while. So
I went through and UH and jotted down the guys
that I thought were the for sure trucks, and then
I've got the trailers. But then I've got some in betweeners.
So we've got even like some in betweeners and some
guys who I think could climb to be trucks, young
(01:58):
young trailers with the potential to be mature.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Trucks is how I'll raise that.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Like, but I thought, first of all, here, let's go
through the guys that I have is trucks, and then
you can just tell me if there's any discussion or
not of whether they should or they shouldn't be. Let
me count the numbers here, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven,
eight nine. I had ten trucks with the potential for
I think we could go down to or we could
(02:23):
go up to based off the conversation that we're getting
ready to have.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
You're ready, that's that's that's a significant number. I mean,
I think that we'll see. Well, let's see just let's
see significant number.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Let's go through the ones where let me just phrase
TEA this way. I'm gonna give you the guy that
I have as a truck. You can tell me, uh lock,
just just use let's just use the lock like he's
a lock or there's a discussion, all right, and if
there's a discussion, we'll have the discussion. You're ready, yep,
all right? So I'm going by division here. I've got
Josh Allen. I mean, that's a lock, and then we
(02:55):
don't have any discussion on that that's this easy thumbs up.
So I'm gonna I'm I'm going to circle him here.
So Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Yes, Lock, Joe Burrow, Yes.
So we've got three undisputeds. Now here's where this Now
this will be interesting here, Well, let me just go.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Through the lot.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
The ones I think are gonna be totally locks Holmes Mahomes. Yes,
all right, that might be. That might be it when
terms of there's no discussion at all. But I've got more. Okay,
I think we those four I think are kind of
up there by themselves to me, I.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Mean that would make sense. We talked about what's elite
in the world. We talk about top ten percent or
so they would put us a little above that. But yeah,
that's it.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, So that's the four guys, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson,
Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes. Now here's the other guys I
still have in the category.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I have C. J. Stroud as a truck. Yeah, his
first year was better than the second year, but I
still think he's in that category. I think you can
put the weight of the team on his shoulders. He
can elevate everybody. Yeah, he can do it. Yeah, he
certainly is a force multiplier.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So yeah, I'm with so, okay, so we're gonna keep
him in. I have justin Herbert. I he's got I know,
isn't that the postseason success? But I've seen him no
matter who was around him, skill set wise, it didn't
really matter.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah. So I think what we have in within the
category of trucks, I think we have the monster trucks,
and then I think we have the little trucks. I
think they I think they fall into that. We don't
have the Toyota sponsorship, but I know you have to
with bro Perdy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have to toun dress. Yeah,
I think we have the Tacoma's so they're still trucks,
(04:41):
but this might be Yeah, we might be in the
Tacoma category right now.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
But I think we just reserve those top four guys. Yeah,
just reserve them up in their own category. And then
I think, now it gets into the discussions. All right,
I had Now we get to the good stuff here.
It's the the divis vision with the most discussion is
the NFC East and it's two of the quarterbacks that
we just mentioned. So I put three of them in
(05:06):
my truck category. I put Dak in there. I know
people love to hate on Dak. I put Hurts in there,
and I put Jaden Daniels in there, and Jade Daniels
to be a second year player, and there's pretty pretty insane.
But I thought, I just feel like, again, I use
the example of elevating others around him, and I like
to say, you know somewhat universal that you can put
(05:29):
him in different places. I think where Jalen Hurts is
accentuates his success on the offensive line, the system, the receivers,
it all does that. But I just with him. I
feel like if you put him in another place that
they would have to cater to him a little bit.
But I think he would. I don't think he wouldn't
have success. I just think he's there's a level to
(05:52):
him that he's able to get. There's some competitive he
can beat you in a lot of different ways. So
I think him Who's more of a discussion point because
I think we're on the same page on Jayden Daniels,
even though it's such a small so he's a truck.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Here's the thing though, if I had to put him
in order, if we were talking about which way should
we stack him up first, second, or third in truck category.
To me, it would be Daniels, Hurts, then Dak. I
think Daniels is the one who is done the most
with the least. Even though it's only been one season.
You would have to say last year he didn't have
a lot around him. He led them to the championship game.
(06:27):
So let's put them there. Given what you just said
about Jalen Hurts, and I agree with you on Hurts.
Hurts can elevate the team. We talked about the ten
plus rushing touchdowns. We talk about how he's able to
kind of play that unique style with the Philadelphia Eagles. Yes,
they've surrounded him with all stars AJ Brown, Devonte Smith,
and Saquon Barkley, but he had proven earlier that he
(06:49):
had been a truck. Dak Prescott is the one that
I love all the things about him as a franchise quarterback,
but I also recognize that he needs a strong running
behind him. Any of these talented pass catches on perimeter
to really get it done. Yeah, they all can kind
of fall into that category. I think the one that
(07:09):
it's probably up for the biggest debate would be Dak Prescott.
Would be the one of the biggest debate because I
think it's easy for me to make the case for Daniels.
It's a little easier for me to make the case
for Hearst given what he's kind of created. Look, he
created a phenomenon with the tush push and the run
game and what they were able to do and all that.
(07:30):
Dak Prescott to me, is the most dependent upon the
supporting cast of any of those three guys.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
All right, so I'm gonna take Dak off. You make
a compelling case, and look, you need to stay healthy.
That's that's part of the equation. I think if you
look at you know, the year before where he goes
forty five hundred yards thirty six and nine with a
one oh five nine rating and you know, complete and
six seventy percent of his passes coming off that year,
I think I'd make that strong case. I know, last
(07:58):
year he only plays in eight games. The numbers are
down pretty much across the board, just that they didn't have
a year, didn't play much. So I can't argue on that.
I've seen him be a truck I feel like I've
seen him elevate others. But health is a big part
of that. So I'm gonna I'm gonna cross him off.
So Daniel's were in a full agreement on and then
(08:18):
hurts man Buck. It's just hard with the success he's
had in the like the biggest stage, Like I'm.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Okay there, He's almost like a crossover vehicle. But yeah,
I think you could put him in there. Uh, some
of that, I will say, like he has toned down
some of his game to accommodate the other stuff. Obviously,
when Sakuon Barkley pops out the way that he popped out,
it allowed the Philadelphia Eagles to be less reliant on
him utilizing his legs. So is that hurts thing? Whereas
(08:47):
that the team doing what's best for the team thing?
So I won't penalize him for that. I think he
gets in there. But I'm curious to see the rest
of the people that we should debate when it comes
to the trucks, because then it becomes down to when we're
talking about in this other t how do we stack
the Herberts and Strauss and those guys against the other
guys that we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yep, So here's the other two. I this is gonna
be an interesting one. I think one of the more
challenging ones Jared Goff because you can say, oh, when
he was young and he was in the Jeff Fisher
setup and it didn't work, and then Sean McVay came
in on the white Horse and they got more out
of him. But then I think the fact that he's
(09:26):
had the success he's had with the Rams and then
now with the Lions, and how he's elevated. You know,
a team that was at the very bottom, and I
know they've got a great offensive line, they've got weapons
that had Ben Johnson all those things around him. But
I'm also coming back to the fact the guy, from
a talent standpoint, was one one.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I mean, he was the first pick in the draft.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Like he's got that type of ability and he strung
it together now for a while, so.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
He I put him to me, he's in the he's
in that next, that that that other tier.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
You know, like you have the Locks, the four Bigs,
m Josh Allen, Lamar, Burrow, Mahomes and then three I
think now you get into the Stroud Herbert. You know,
Jaden Daniels hurts like golf. To me, I have a
hard time not putting him in with that group of guys.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, I can see that. Like, man, he's such a
mix because everything that we talk about, like he had
the luxury of arguably the best offensive line in football.
We can say the same thing about Jalen Hurts terrific
play caller and Ben Johnson, great weapons in the backfield
and on the perimeter. I don't think it would be
disrespectful if he was either the low tier of the
(10:38):
trucks or the high end trailers, because he's right at
that fault line. You can talk about how talented all
of the p's were around him, and does that make
him or does he make them? I mean six on
one hand, half a dozen on the other when it
comes to that, I think he's right at the line.
When it comes to that designation between truck and trailer.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, I think we're gonna put these guys in tiers
as we go through this, and it'll help sort it out.
I still I know what his at his age, but
I still had Stafford as a truck. I mean, he'd
been a truck for so long. He might be an
old truck. He might be kind of coming towards the end,
but I still think he's a he's a multiplying factor.
Like you know, I think when he's out in the field,
(11:20):
I think that changes things for them. So he's a
hanging on. He's got need some new tires, but he's
hanging on as a truck.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
For me, DJ, you wouldn't notice, but I grew up
in the house my dad. Whenever we were by cars, like,
we would always have the funny colored cars because they
were the cheapest head the lot. When I was like
eight to twelve, we used to have in orange f
one fifty oh. And that thing, I mean, that thing
(11:47):
was I mean, it was reliable, it was dependable, you
couldn't beat it up. We had my dad had rims
on it. It was everything. And that's what Matthew Stafford
is right now. He is reliable, dependable, He's going to
show up. He's gonna give you one hundred and fifty
two hundred thousand miles before it conks out. And that's
what he's been able to do. And the rams last
few years, they've started out one and four and they've
(12:08):
been brought back, and a lot of it has been
due to Matthew Stafford's ability to put the offense on
his back. He is there. And to bring the conversation
where the last two guys we talked about were involved
in the swap, Yeah, talking about that, and we're talking
about both of them, where in a way our language
is more complimentary of Matthew Stafford being a truck but
(12:32):
the guy that we talked about before him was Jerry Goff,
who he was traded for because the Rams didn't feel
like he was capable of carrying them to the next thing.
It's just an interesting conversation and observation when we talked
about those two guys forever being joined at the hip.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
So if we're kind of looking at these tiers, So
that was the group that I had. Now let me
give you the let me give you the Maybes, and
I had some of the Maybes on the truck side,
and I had some of the Maybes on the trailer side.
So the big Maybies that I had. Dak we talked about,
you know, was a maybe. Golf was the was the maybe.
I had Jordan Love kind of as a maybe. I
(13:08):
think he's got a chance to grow into that. I
don't have him there just yet. Baker Mayfield Rock Party,
like that's that middle class that to me is the
I think you described it as we're talking about high
end trailers.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Low end trucks, that those are the.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Guys that I kind of circled, so that that that
club of that truck light or trailer plus is a
collection of Dak Prescott, it is Jared Goff, It's Jordan Love,
it's Baker Mayfield. It's rock party like that. That's like
(13:44):
the five man middle man I think between there.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So the funny thing we're talking about quarterbacks and we're
talking about first round quarterbacks falling in that designation, Baker
Mayfield being a former number one overall, Jordan Love being
a first round pick, look, brock Perdy being mystery relevant.
But he has played at a high level, and I
know people have been very very dismissive of his talents
based on Kyle Shanahan and the supporting cast and those things.
(14:10):
But we've seen others step into that role and been
unable to generate the kind of production that he's been
able to generate. So he deserves to be in that tier.
It's just an interesting thing. And what it speaks to
is when we take it back to the draft and
we're looking at quarterbacks and we're projecting what a quarterback
is going to be in the league DJ. A lot
(14:32):
of it is being able to honestly say and kind
of put expectations on. Look, this guy is not necessarily
a truck, but we can have a lot of success
if he's a high end trailer and we surround him
with the right stuff and as being honest enough to know,
everybody that we take early does not have truck capability.
But if we take him in this round, he has
(14:53):
enough to be in that Baker Mayfield category that we're
talking about, this tier that is whatever truck like trailer
plus whatever we decide that we want to call it.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
If I'm looking through and I'll go through this thing
here one second, all write some other names now, so
I know some people are going to say, you guys
have missed so many different names here along through this process.
Here's here's the other way I would look at it,
like to us had tremendous success. But he is like
the poster child of a high end.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Trailer, very dependent.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
He needs he needs it all and weapons and all
that stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
And that's not us saying that he's not a good player,
but it's very obvious that he needs all of those things,
Like he might be limited if we took him out
of that offense and put him in another offense. He's
not necessarily like I would say team friendly for everybody,
Like every coach wouldn't work with him. It wouldn't it
wouldn't have the same kind of production that Mike McDaniels
(15:51):
has been able to have with him. And that's okay.
Like most of the league, We've said this, eighty percent
of the league consists of system players where they need
to be in the right system to be able to
really max out their talents. I believe two of falls
in that category, and some of the guys that we're
talking about, even in the Truck like Trailer plus Keelery,
(16:12):
they also fall in that. Like it's very important that
the scheme and the stuff that they're playing in really
sets them up for success.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, then you start getting into some guys like that
I think have a chance, Like if I were going
to tell you guys that had a chance to elevate themselves, right,
so they're they're young or still in their earlier in
their development, but I think Drake May has a chance
to be a truck with all of the skills that
he possesses, So I'd put him in that potential truck
(16:42):
as a young player. You know, Trevor Lawrence is a
weird one because it's like is he is he young
enough to be considered in that potential truck or is
he kind of settled into that? You know his upside
as a high end trailer. That's a that's a challenging
one for me.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Look, it's a very challenging winner is I think one
that uh it was there. I was funny because I
was like, I wonder, when we're gonna get to Trevor,
what is truck Trevor qualified? Because twenty twenty two, Trevor
would fall into that light plus category that we're talking about.
Like even in fact, I think coming off of that
year DJ he was in that tier that people were regarding.
(17:21):
We're talking about c J. Stroud and Jade and Daniels,
that tier that's right below the big four. Have to
see it, and I think, look, I can wax poetic
about what they've done in the three p's, but he
has to play at a level that makes us get
in there. I think the best thing for the Jags
and for him is if he plays at a Jery
Golf level, that should be plenty good enough for them
(17:41):
to win and get into that that ten win category.
But he has to play at that level. And the
one thing that Jered Golf has done, he's been crazy
consistent in the last two plus years in Detroit. That
consistency is what allows you to feel confident that high
end low whatever, high end trailer lower, that's that's his.
That's is a ceiling probably, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I don't I think on him getting into the elite club.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
But I think, but I think that's a good muse
for him and everyone around him to do. And I
think it's interesting with Liam Cohen and James Glasson coming
from the Rams to be able to have that. I
don't think he's necessarily the super nova like Matthew Stafford is,
but they did have a lot of success with Jared Goff.
If you used as as a as a muse and
kind of build it around him like that, you certainly
(18:28):
can have the high end production and performs to Jared
Goff is that and Debt was super Bowl caliber because
he got the super Bowl, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I think Caleb, I think Nick's love, I think all
those guys have, they have potential to develop into the trucks. Obviously,
you know Loves a little further on on his journey,
a little closer there. But I think with with with
Caleb and with bo Nix, I think you've got the
uh the potential there to to find yourself in that category.
(18:57):
Then some of the ones we just don't know enough about,
like Pennix, J. J. McCarthy, like we just don't know yet,
you know. But I think Kyler Murray's a tricky one,
you know, Like I just I think Kyler Murray and
Sam Donald are both in the They're just I think
they're both like really good trailers. They're gonna need they're
(19:17):
gonna need some stuff. But they're talented, talent guys.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
You know. It's funny because that's why I was wondering.
And we'll eventually get to it when the Enigmas thing.
But yeah, Kyler Murray and Sam Donald are interesting given
what we've seen so Sam Donald first, last year's coming
off a career year. We saw what Kevin O'Connor was
able to do and how they were able to set
him up for success. We saw what the weapons around
him did in terms of being able to set it off,
(19:42):
but then we also saw how it finished with two
games that weren't his best games. And so it leaves
you wondering, what have we seen the best that he
can offer? When it comes to the perfect situation in
Minnesota and Kennesse, Seattle Seahawks replicate that in the Pacific Northwest,
can they put him in an environment that allowed him
to play it like he played in Minnesota. That'll let
(20:03):
us know a lot. And then Cala Murray is tricky
because we saw the flashes right Hayley's comment, what he
was able to do early office Rookie of the years success,
running around a little bit of the road runner with
the big time arm. Then the injury happens. The injury
takes away some of that, and he's not as dynamic
(20:24):
and electric good believes you wanting more. And then I
know people are in this weird spot when it comes
to judging quarterbacks by wins and those things. But he
has a sub five hundred record as a starter. You
have seen this team kind of be whole hum with
him there. So there is this question about man, what
(20:46):
is our ceiling with Caler Murray? And at some point
the building is gonna come due, that contract is hefty?
What's the return on investment?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
If I was gonna ask you in that we have
the Big four, right, so they're standing alone there, But
in that next group behind them, where we have Stroud, Herbert,
Jade Daniels hurts, you know, we still have Stafford is
kind of older. You've got Golf as a maybe in there.
But in that next group, if I just gave you
(21:16):
these three names, Jade Daniels, Justin, Herbert c. J. Stroud,
which one of those guys has a chance to make
the Big four the Big five?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I think, based on movies saw last year, I'm more
willing to bet on Jaydeen Daniels. And the reason why
is is to do a threat. It's his ability to
be able to dominate the game as a runner and
as a thrower. And I'm being honest with you, DJ.
I never thought he would have success running in the
league that he said. And I know he showed flashes
and did all that stuff at LSU, but with the frame,
I was like, man, there's no way this dude's gonna
(21:49):
be running quarterback counter and whatever. I thought he would
be more of a scrambler than a design runner. But
he's proven that he can be a design runner. To me,
he has superstar potential and I'm trying to be very
very light when it comes to putting that expectation on him.
But he has the kind of moxie and stuff in
(22:10):
big game performance that he could be a superstar in
this league. He never appears to be routed, like never,
maybe year two when the league has circulated everything around
him and he gets kind of different things that he's seen.
I've just never seen him rattle. And to me, that
poise allows you to perform at a level that you
have some more levers, some more gears that you can
(22:31):
go to, because he does have such an emotional maturity
about his game.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, I don't know how I could disagree with you
on that. And you know, I think there's a very
real possible. I'd say it's greater than fifty percent next year.
At this time we're talking about at least it's a
big five, you know. May maybe we see all these
guys enter into that into that category, but I think
I would. Man, it's easy to bet on Jayden Daniels.
I mean, I think they're only going to get better
(22:56):
around him, too. Man, I don't think they have like
an elite supporting cast by any stretch.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Not at all last year and then you had Deebo.
You had so many other stuff that you did. You
had a left tackle. I mean, Brian robinsons back. They're
going to be physical. And now Cliff Kingsbury knows what
this guy's gonna do. Before you speculated projecting how you
can play in your system. Now you have a full
year to see. Oh man, he did this, so we
(23:21):
can go to of course two oh one as opposed
to living in one on one debt. Just a different
just a different thing.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, go back through Josh Connery, their first round pick.
So that's an upgrade at the at the tackle spots
they got you know, really really talent, really talented there. Uh,
to upgrade that group. We'll see if some of these
other young guys that they got in the mix, you know,
Luke McCaffrey in his next year, see Jalen Lane, the
rookie who can fly, who they've picked up. So, I
mean they've they've upgraded some of the pieces. I still think, uh,
(23:52):
you know, it's not in the upper echelon group of
supporting casts, but I mean it's hard to see what
you saw last year and not believe that's going to
be the case. So I think the moral of the
story of this is we can talk about trucks and
trailers and you can have debatables, but I think when
you go through it and flesh out the process, it
does feel like there's the Big Four, there's a little
bit of a gap, and then you've got a mix
of three three to five guys that you know, trying
(24:14):
to compete there. You've got the high end trailers, you know,
the guys that are consistent, you know the I think
brock Perdy is kind of in that he's in that
mode to us in that mode and if he can
get out there and stay healthy. So there's there's these
different little tiers of guys. But it'll be interesting to
see next year if we can see some of these
guys kind of crash the party of the Big four.
(24:35):
And the other thing that I'm looking at that Buck
Josh Allen, AFC, Lamar Jackson, AFC Burrough, AFC, Mahomes afc OO.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
It's a gauntlet. And we talked about building championship teams,
and we talked about it, you better have a team
that can can go and deal with the murderers row.
It also changes the way that you look at quarterbacks.
If you're an AFC team, you have to be able
to envision your quarterback winning a shootout against what are
all of the four from in the AFC. I mean,
(25:04):
but that's what we're talking about, like your.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Quarterback and the two of the next three are in
the AFC. So kind of looking at these tiers, six
of the top seven guys are AFC.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Quarterbacks the murderer's row of the And it's also why
Jayden Daniels has a clean runway. Oh yeah, I mean,
it's it's right there for him. Yeah, it's all right
there for him. So when it comes to we talk
about building team, being able to win your division and
then looking out how to win your conference, you better
have someone that you can see win a shootout. Because
as much as you want to protect them, as much
(25:34):
as we want to have like a high end trail
and say, hey, we can surround them in those games
against those guys that are monster trucks, you have to
be able to level up and go there. Now, to
his credit, Jalen Hurts, we've seen him do that multiple
times in those big games We've seen him out play
Pat Mahomes in the biggest game and get and we're
(25:55):
able to give him credit for being able to do that.
So he has that ability to take it up a notch.
Everyone doesn't have that capacity, and so that's what we're
looking for when we're looking at the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, I mean, I guess I don't want to insult
Hurts by not putting him in that in that company there.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
With him and Jade Daniels. We put it right on
the border and look, yeah we do it. We treat
it like the draft room. We put him right on
that line, deadline where we see in the room that hey,
his greatest right here. We can put him right on
the line and give him a chance to play into
that category because he very well could play into that.
Because look, if the Philadelphia Eagles started looking like they
(26:31):
are a back to back type team, and if it's
like that because of his performance and the way that
he plays, and if he shows us another, uh, another
array of skills or things that you know, always talking
about working on your game and coming back with something added,
another dimension, man, if he has another dimension, and yeah,
without doubt, he goes into that category.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, I mean, I because I know, I'm sure we'll
get some grief from Philadelphia folks on there, and you
guys talk some much about Jayden Daniels and Hurts is
super MVP. But I would just pose this question, and
it's not an insult to Hurts. I appreciate his game,
I appreciate how he's played in two Super Bowls, and
his leadership is toughness. I mean, we've we've been very,
very effusive in our praise since he entered into the
(27:14):
league when we were talking about him. But I just
have a hard time if you just if you look
at it and be objective, if they swap teams, you
put Jaden Daniels in there with that Philadelphia group and
then you put Hurts on Washington. I don't know anybody
that could argue that Jaden Daniels doesn't have even more
(27:36):
success with the Eagles and that Hurts. Would be a
hard time for me imagining him getting the same out
of that group over there that Jade and Daniels did
so and it's not an insult. He's a great fit
in Philly and he's winning and got paid all that stuff.
It's just to me, I would take Jaden Daniels over him,
even though in the winning is heavily favored towards Hurts.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Well, I mean, I think some of that is when
we talk about all this, some of that comes down
to skill set and the one thing that I would
say about Jade and Daniels, I would give him the
edge over Hurts as a pure pocket passer, where I
would say that Hurts is the more rugged, the more
physical runner. There's like an explosives to Jalen Daniels that
(28:23):
is a little different. So that's why I would rank
him over top of Hurts without being distract with ahearts
ability because I do believe he can get to that category.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yep, same, All right, by quick break, come back, We're
gonna hear on your enigma seven enigmas for the next
for the upcoming season. Right after this, all right, bock
taking away seven enigmas.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Shoot, okay, sogmas. We're talking about guys who are really
good players, but just trying to figure out man are
the good to great? And some of this has to
do with the contract. So the first guy on the
list we talked about already was Caler Murray. Caller Murray.
The Cardinals win and they paid him the extension. There's
a lot of conversation about the extension when it came
to whether preparation habits, study habits and all that, but
(29:08):
you couldn't dispute the success that the team had with
him and you wanted to retain them. We're now we're
in this weird place where we talked about sub five
hundred record, the playoff wins. You're just trying to figure
out where do we put a guy that we're gonna
be on the hook for a lot of money for
and we're gonna have to eventually do an extension. So
(29:28):
with Calla Murray, I want to see if you can
go from good to great. He's flashed great at times,
but he's been more good than anything. But can he
go to the next category? And so that's why he's
a little in that enigmatic for me when it comes
to talking about where he fits in the landscape.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yeah, man, the talent is there. To me, it's like,
can you stay healthy and fresh and play fast, you
know throughout a full season. You've got you know, some
nice pieces around you there, man, the buffed up mar
Harrison Junior. I'm curious to see if he can you know,
he play a little bit better this next year, get
a little more comfortable, uh in their system, and they
(30:06):
properly know how to use him and get something there.
But I mean that's I talked about this with somebody
the other day. There's you think about shot dispersion and golf,
you know, like how how far are you spraying it?
If you think about win totals of like teams that
could you know, you're saying they're gonna win between this
and that many games, Like I've mentioned the Pittsburgh Steelers
have to me, they're Pittsburgh Steelers. There's no universe where
(30:27):
they don't win nine to eleven like they that's it.
They're not gonna win five games. They're not gonna win
fifteen games. They're a nine to eleven win team. I
feel like the Arizona Cardinals, if you told me next
year that they won six games or thirteen games, I mean,
I I don't know that. I would, you know, disagree
all over the map. And I think that goes to
(30:48):
him being enigmatic. You don't know what you're gonna get.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, you don't know what you can get. And there
is something to that, and so like with all of
these guys that we talked about, part of them being
a enigma is the lack of consistency. So can he
smooth without his game where we know each and every
week this is what we're getting from Arizona Cardinal CB?
All Right, who's next? How about George Pickens? Like George
Pickens like look the best that never was right in
(31:11):
terms of there's so much excitement about the things that
he can do. HeSE just someone who averages over sixteen
yards per catching their career, that is a big play specialist,
someone who has a thousand yard season on the resume,
someone who is dynamic, electric, he can take over the
game and those things, but someone who also has a
handful of things that leave you scratching your head one?
(31:32):
Can he bring the emotional stability that he needs to
be a great player each and every week? Can he
moved beyond some of the things that I would call
distract him from the film where there's lack of touches,
not feeling like he's involved in the game, and those things,
and just concentrate on being great in whatever role that
is for that game. You first seed d Lamb and
(31:54):
Brian Schottenheimer and those guys talk about, Hey, we don't
have a one and a two wide receiver, we have
one eight and one B. When it comes to Cede
Lamb and George Pickens, respectively, I want to see how
this plays out, because if he is truly a number one,
he should have plenty of opportunities to dominate opposite someone
that commands a lot of attention like Ceedee Lamb.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, maybe this is this is the spot. It's all
in there. If he can get comfortable and settle in,
let the ability show. I mean, gosh, he's never played
with anybody like Ceedee Lamb, so that could be fun.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
It could be fun. So the next guy, we'll go
to the New York Johnts and this is one that
was Look, he's been an enigma since the draft cave
on Tiboda coming out of Oregon. There's a lot of
conversation in terms of how does he fit as an
elite past rushing prospect. You can see the body type,
the size would he hold up? Then you wondered the
motors sometimes ran hot or cold. You go to the Giants,
(32:49):
you see him little slow star pop double digit Sacks
comes back a little bit this year. Which one are
we getting they do decide to pick up the fifth
year option in those things. But for Kaveon Thibodeau, the
question is, man, if he was so great, why do
we go out and get Brian Burns? Why do we
double down and come back and get Abdul Carter to
surrounded with Dexter Lawrence. If Kvon Thibadeau can't give you
(33:13):
double digit sacks now with all of the attention for
usd to go elsewhere, what is he really going to
be in this league? And better? Yet, if you're the Giants,
what does he mean for us? When we talk about
taking someone into top five DJ, you know what that means.
When we say top five player, we talk about transcendent,
blue chip, perennial Pro Bowl, All Star accolades. Is Kaveon
(33:36):
Thibadau gonna give us that? Or is he just gonna
be a really good player that can play opposite someone
that's a dominant player.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I remember the two knocks on him coming out. Number
one did not play with his hair on fire. There
were some you know, there were some plays he definitely
took off.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
And then number two.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
You remember it was like a kind of what motivates
this guy? Is he loved ball kind of love what
ball gives you a high, high profile recruit coming out,
you know, it's kind of like, okay, what what what
makes this guy?
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Tech?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Well, if he's motivated by money, he's gonna have a
good year because you know, you want to get that
next contract and now you're gonna have to fight for
playing time.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
With this crowded the group as they have there with
the Giants.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
So there's keeping your job and then there's the financial
aspect that's out there for him. So you know, not
to mention just wanting to play well, there should be
plenty incentive for him to have a good year.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, man, look is now or never. In terms of
Kavon Tabueau carving out a role that makes him a
big money player in New York, and we understand in
New York the pressure is different, bright lights, big stage.
We'll see if you can live up to it. How
about this name, Tyreek Willin from the Seattle Seahawks. The
reason why I have him as a enigma that that
rookie year DJ. You remember we were all like, oh man,
(34:42):
we ripped up our porch. We're all wrong. He's supersized,
he's talented and nose and nose goes to the pro
bowler people are talking about, well maybe he's better than
Sauce Gardner on the Island and all of that stuff. Well,
then he didn't play at that level. It's kind of
been up and down, been a bumpy road, and you wonder.
We talked about the side the tools to talent, but
it hasn't been the consistency that you want to see.
(35:05):
So where is who are you? That's the biggest question.
If you're a front office guy looking at Tarrek Willam,
which one's going to show up on Sundays.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I'm someone who you know, the group that drafted him.
This is a new regime there, so maybe that was
just a little adjustment period and we'll see, we'll see
better form out of him.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
He'll go last one that I talked about, but DJ
this is the one that I think everyone is trying
to do it and as offensive fans, cal Pits is
the eighth wonder of the world. Right when he was
coming out.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
That report, I've got that thing so hidden that things
behind the lock and key, right, you need that night
vision to go find that where I had that report.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
No, but like the fascination that we had over him
and what he could be man half man, half amazing,
half wide out, half tied in. He can do so
many different things. We can create all these mismatches. He
has a thousand yard season right out the gate, but
then he can't find the end zone. And so we've
never seen someone who's so productive but can't put points
(36:00):
on the board and you wanted. We've seen multiple coaches
come through there, multiple play calls trying to figure out
and we still are like, the talent says one thing,
but the performance and the production says something else. So
where do we fall? Is it the player or is
it the play caller? Why can't we unlock someone who
would deem to be such a special player given the tools,
(36:25):
but the tools haven't necessarily translated into the kind of
dominance that we would expect to see on the perimeter.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
He's got ten touchdowns buck four years, had four last year,
which was the most that he's had. But after that
thousand yard season, he only plays ten games three hundred
and fifty six yards, then seventeen games that the last
two years and just over six hundred yards seven total touchdowns.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
The good thing is, you know, when you look at him. Gosh,
he's still he's.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Twenty four years old. I mean, he's still young man,
twenty four years old. It's in there some I don't know.
I don't know if I'm all that confident you're gonna
find it. But manle I know, talk.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
About a whiff. I won't call it a complete wip,
but I will say, given where he was drafted.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
At that position, you don't take a tight end up
there unless you're expecting him to be man.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
You're expecting man. You're expecting him to be game busses
and he hasn't been that. And every year we hold
out hope and we talk about fantasy and what we
expect to see, we just haven't seen it. And we're
at that point where we have to make hard decisions.
How much are we willing to pay someone that can't
put the ball in the paint. DJ We can talk
about tight ends and some would say tight ends or
(37:39):
a diamond doesn't unless you can put him if you
listen to put the ball in the end zone. Ten
touchdowns over a four years, two and a half a year,
it's not enough for doubts.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
The most the most frustrating thing for me, and I've
seen him play live in the NFL. Is that there's
the best way to describe it is there's guys who
are aggressive to the ball and there's guys who are
passive to the ball. He is passive to the ball.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Man.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
He plays small, he doesn't go, he doesn't attack it.
He doesn't It's not a my ball mentality. And I
don't know, man, You tell me now, as someone who's
played the position you at least as a pass catcher,
do you do you.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Develop into that or you have it or you don't
have it. I don't think you can develop it. I
think you have it. I mean I think it's only
so much. That's not good news. Then, yeah, that's only
so much you can do when it comes to being
a go getter, like you kind of have it in
you or whatever, like you can push it up or level,
but you kind of are a dominant guy when it
(38:37):
comes to that personality. I want to get it. I'm
gonna get it all the time or not. And he
hasn't shown that. And if you're the Falcons, you're disappointed
given what you've committed and what you've poured into him
as a top five pick, he hasn't delivered, and it
just makes it bad because DJ, we've seen it. We
were talking about the tight end class this year and
there was so much tell the Warrant Coast and Loveland
(38:57):
and those guys tight ends are hard and they can
kind of come from everywhere. But what he was given,
the tools that he was blessed with, you would think
that he would be from day one, a dominant player
on the perimeter, a matchup nightmare, a headache for opposing
de coordinators. And he hasn't been. You know where the
pick was right after him? Who Jamar, Chase, Jeez, Louise.
(39:24):
Not great.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
But again, I shoot, I missed on him, so I
can't say nothing. I missed on him.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
So hopefully, hey, maybe he proves us. All right.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
We've seen it in the past where somebody kind of
just pops. Maybe this is the Maybe this is the year,
and I'm confident in that. But man, I would like
to try and find that report and dust it off
and read it again. Hidden lock and key, Buddy, lock
and key.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Right now?
Speaker 2 (39:44):
All right, that's gonna do it for us today, Buck,
anything else you want tod before we get out of here.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
No, always fun, man, Always fun to have these discussions
part of the things that you want to do as
an evaluators. You always want to kind of do a
check in balance with yourself, look at what you think
about people, how they evaluate. Do you need to change
your how's the league changed? So being able to have
these discussions certainly help us kind of revisit some of
the old reports and some of the old opinions that
we had on players. Yeah, no, it is.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
It's always healthy to go back and look at that stuff.
I'm just pulling up my notes here real quick before
we get out of here. Kyle Pitts he improved as
a blocker, inline wing, flexed out, He's dynamic, you run
pivot routes, got some Kelsey to him. He knows how
to set up defenders, big catch radius, juicy yack. But
there's nothing in there about attacking the ball and being aggressive,
(40:32):
and that's that's unfortunate because that's been a major issue there.
So we'll see maybe this is the year cal Pits
and some of these other enigmas get it, get it
going and figure it out. But check out that article
by the way NFL dot com. You can see Bucky's
work there. As we look at some of the truly
interesting players as we head into the twenty twenty five season.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
That's gonna do it for us. We'll see you next time,
right here on Movi. The Sticks
And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the sticks? DJ, Buck
with you, Buck?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
What is the word? Man? Now, I've been when the
dog days of summer, all the caps are done. We're
over here trying to figure out what we talk about.
Great content about things it wasn't I get. I can
tell that we're in the dog days of summer when
people dig up old tweets. Oh gosh, my old tweets,
treat them out and be like, hey, any update on
the playoff tears? No, we're not in the playoffs. You
(00:33):
talk about whatever I said about the quarterbacks into tears,
but I'm not gonna apologize for it because that was
the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And so yeah, if I remember correctly, By the way,
we haven't talked about this since. I remember you getting
the most grief for the love you gave to Jade
and Daniels, who ended up taking that team on the
brink of a Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
But I put Jalen Hurts into three. Oh Okay, I
get flat for that because they won the Super Bowl.
So that is that is his thing. But look, I
don't mind, Like, if you want to talk about it,
make content. There's nothing to talk about, So issuing a
rebuttal just allowed us to eat up five minutes on
the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, there you go. Thank you very much. We appreciate
your services. Today we're gonna hit on an article Buck
wrote on some of the enigmas coming into the season.
So the great unknowns, the great mysteries, I believe was seven. Uh,
if I'm not mistaken Buck, So I didn't get to
the magic number of seven on that front. But you
mentioned we started talking about quarterbacks there for a segment
Jaydon Daniels and with Jalen Hurts. That's going to lead
(01:31):
me into what I wanted.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
To do with the at the top here.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Because we always talk about trucks and trailers we mentioned
on a previous episode. I thought, man, we need to
refresh us. We haven't done this in a while. So
I went through and UH and jotted down the guys
that I thought were the for sure trucks, and then
I've got the trailers. But then I've got some in betweeners.
So we've got even like some in betweeners and some
guys who I think could climb to be trucks, young
(01:58):
young trailers with the potential to be mature.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Trucks is how I'll raise that.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Like, but I thought, first of all, here, let's go
through the guys that I have is trucks, and then
you can just tell me if there's any discussion or
not of whether they should or they shouldn't be. Let
me count the numbers here, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven,
eight nine. I had ten trucks with the potential for
I think we could go down to or we could
(02:23):
go up to based off the conversation that we're getting
ready to have.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
You're ready, that's that's that's a significant number. I mean,
I think that we'll see. Well, let's see just let's
see significant number.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Let's go through the ones where let me just phrase
TEA this way. I'm gonna give you the guy that
I have as a truck. You can tell me, uh lock,
just just use let's just use the lock like he's
a lock or there's a discussion, all right, and if
there's a discussion, we'll have the discussion. You're ready, yep,
all right? So I'm going by division here. I've got
Josh Allen. I mean, that's a lock, and then we
(02:55):
don't have any discussion on that that's this easy thumbs up.
So I'm gonna I'm I'm going to circle him here.
So Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Yes, Lock, Joe Burrow, Yes.
So we've got three undisputeds. Now here's where this Now
this will be interesting here, Well, let me just go.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Through the lot.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
The ones I think are gonna be totally locks Holmes Mahomes. Yes,
all right, that might be. That might be it when
terms of there's no discussion at all. But I've got more. Okay,
I think we those four I think are kind of
up there by themselves to me, I.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Mean that would make sense. We talked about what's elite
in the world. We talk about top ten percent or
so they would put us a little above that. But yeah,
that's it.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, So that's the four guys, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson,
Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes. Now here's the other guys I
still have in the category.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I have C. J. Stroud as a truck. Yeah, his
first year was better than the second year, but I
still think he's in that category. I think you can
put the weight of the team on his shoulders. He
can elevate everybody. Yeah, he can do it. Yeah, he
certainly is a force multiplier.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So yeah, I'm with so, okay, so we're gonna keep
him in. I have justin Herbert. I he's got I know,
isn't that the postseason success? But I've seen him no
matter who was around him, skill set wise, it didn't
really matter.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah. So I think what we have in within the
category of trucks, I think we have the monster trucks,
and then I think we have the little trucks. I
think they I think they fall into that. We don't
have the Toyota sponsorship, but I know you have to
with bro Perdy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have to toun dress. Yeah,
I think we have the Tacoma's so they're still trucks,
(04:41):
but this might be Yeah, we might be in the
Tacoma category right now.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
But I think we just reserve those top four guys. Yeah,
just reserve them up in their own category. And then
I think, now it gets into the discussions. All right,
I had Now we get to the good stuff here.
It's the the divis vision with the most discussion is
the NFC East and it's two of the quarterbacks that
we just mentioned. So I put three of them in
(05:06):
my truck category. I put Dak in there. I know
people love to hate on Dak. I put Hurts in there,
and I put Jaden Daniels in there, and Jade Daniels
to be a second year player, and there's pretty pretty insane.
But I thought, I just feel like, again, I use
the example of elevating others around him, and I like
to say, you know somewhat universal that you can put
(05:29):
him in different places. I think where Jalen Hurts is
accentuates his success on the offensive line, the system, the receivers,
it all does that. But I just with him. I
feel like if you put him in another place that
they would have to cater to him a little bit.
But I think he would. I don't think he wouldn't
have success. I just think he's there's a level to
(05:52):
him that he's able to get. There's some competitive he
can beat you in a lot of different ways. So
I think him Who's more of a discussion point because
I think we're on the same page on Jayden Daniels,
even though it's such a small so he's a truck.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Here's the thing though, if I had to put him
in order, if we were talking about which way should
we stack him up first, second, or third in truck category.
To me, it would be Daniels, Hurts, then Dak. I
think Daniels is the one who is done the most
with the least. Even though it's only been one season.
You would have to say last year he didn't have
a lot around him. He led them to the championship game.
(06:27):
So let's put them there. Given what you just said
about Jalen Hurts, and I agree with you on Hurts.
Hurts can elevate the team. We talked about the ten
plus rushing touchdowns. We talk about how he's able to
kind of play that unique style with the Philadelphia Eagles. Yes,
they've surrounded him with all stars AJ Brown, Devonte Smith,
and Saquon Barkley, but he had proven earlier that he
(06:49):
had been a truck. Dak Prescott is the one that
I love all the things about him as a franchise quarterback,
but I also recognize that he needs a strong running
behind him. Any of these talented pass catches on perimeter
to really get it done. Yeah, they all can kind
of fall into that category. I think the one that
(07:09):
it's probably up for the biggest debate would be Dak Prescott.
Would be the one of the biggest debate because I
think it's easy for me to make the case for Daniels.
It's a little easier for me to make the case
for Hearst given what he's kind of created. Look, he
created a phenomenon with the tush push and the run
game and what they were able to do and all that.
(07:30):
Dak Prescott to me, is the most dependent upon the
supporting cast of any of those three guys.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
All right, so I'm gonna take Dak off. You make
a compelling case, and look, you need to stay healthy.
That's that's part of the equation. I think if you
look at you know, the year before where he goes
forty five hundred yards thirty six and nine with a
one oh five nine rating and you know, complete and
six seventy percent of his passes coming off that year,
I think I'd make that strong case. I know, last
(07:58):
year he only plays in eight games. The numbers are
down pretty much across the board, just that they didn't have
a year, didn't play much. So I can't argue on that.
I've seen him be a truck I feel like I've
seen him elevate others. But health is a big part
of that. So I'm gonna I'm gonna cross him off.
So Daniel's were in a full agreement on and then
(08:18):
hurts man Buck. It's just hard with the success he's
had in the like the biggest stage, Like I'm.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Okay there, He's almost like a crossover vehicle. But yeah,
I think you could put him in there. Uh, some
of that, I will say, like he has toned down
some of his game to accommodate the other stuff. Obviously,
when Sakuon Barkley pops out the way that he popped out,
it allowed the Philadelphia Eagles to be less reliant on
him utilizing his legs. So is that hurts thing? Whereas
(08:47):
that the team doing what's best for the team thing?
So I won't penalize him for that. I think he
gets in there. But I'm curious to see the rest
of the people that we should debate when it comes
to the trucks, because then it becomes down to when we're
talking about in this other t how do we stack
the Herberts and Strauss and those guys against the other
guys that we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yep, So here's the other two. I this is gonna
be an interesting one. I think one of the more
challenging ones Jared Goff because you can say, oh, when
he was young and he was in the Jeff Fisher
setup and it didn't work, and then Sean McVay came
in on the white Horse and they got more out
of him. But then I think the fact that he's
(09:26):
had the success he's had with the Rams and then
now with the Lions, and how he's elevated. You know,
a team that was at the very bottom, and I
know they've got a great offensive line, they've got weapons
that had Ben Johnson all those things around him. But
I'm also coming back to the fact the guy, from
a talent standpoint, was one one.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I mean, he was the first pick in the draft.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Like he's got that type of ability and he strung
it together now for a while, so.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
He I put him to me, he's in the he's
in that next, that that that other tier.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
You know, like you have the Locks, the four Bigs,
m Josh Allen, Lamar, Burrow, Mahomes and then three I
think now you get into the Stroud Herbert. You know,
Jaden Daniels hurts like golf. To me, I have a
hard time not putting him in with that group of guys.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, I can see that. Like, man, he's such a
mix because everything that we talk about, like he had
the luxury of arguably the best offensive line in football.
We can say the same thing about Jalen Hurts terrific
play caller and Ben Johnson, great weapons in the backfield
and on the perimeter. I don't think it would be
disrespectful if he was either the low tier of the
(10:38):
trucks or the high end trailers, because he's right at
that fault line. You can talk about how talented all
of the p's were around him, and does that make
him or does he make them? I mean six on
one hand, half a dozen on the other when it
comes to that, I think he's right at the line.
When it comes to that designation between truck and trailer.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, I think we're gonna put these guys in tiers
as we go through this, and it'll help sort it out.
I still I know what his at his age, but
I still had Stafford as a truck. I mean, he'd
been a truck for so long. He might be an
old truck. He might be kind of coming towards the end,
but I still think he's a he's a multiplying factor.
Like you know, I think when he's out in the field,
(11:20):
I think that changes things for them. So he's a
hanging on. He's got need some new tires, but he's
hanging on as a truck.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
For me, DJ, you wouldn't notice, but I grew up
in the house my dad. Whenever we were by cars, like,
we would always have the funny colored cars because they
were the cheapest head the lot. When I was like
eight to twelve, we used to have in orange f
one fifty oh. And that thing, I mean, that thing
(11:47):
was I mean, it was reliable, it was dependable, you
couldn't beat it up. We had my dad had rims
on it. It was everything. And that's what Matthew Stafford
is right now. He is reliable, dependable, He's going to
show up. He's gonna give you one hundred and fifty
two hundred thousand miles before it conks out. And that's
what he's been able to do. And the rams last
few years, they've started out one and four and they've
(12:08):
been brought back, and a lot of it has been
due to Matthew Stafford's ability to put the offense on
his back. He is there. And to bring the conversation
where the last two guys we talked about were involved
in the swap, Yeah, talking about that, and we're talking
about both of them, where in a way our language
is more complimentary of Matthew Stafford being a truck but
(12:32):
the guy that we talked about before him was Jerry Goff,
who he was traded for because the Rams didn't feel
like he was capable of carrying them to the next thing.
It's just an interesting conversation and observation when we talked
about those two guys forever being joined at the hip.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
So if we're kind of looking at these tiers, So
that was the group that I had. Now let me
give you the let me give you the Maybes, and
I had some of the Maybes on the truck side,
and I had some of the Maybes on the trailer side.
So the big Maybies that I had. Dak we talked about,
you know, was a maybe. Golf was the was the maybe.
I had Jordan Love kind of as a maybe. I
(13:08):
think he's got a chance to grow into that. I
don't have him there just yet. Baker Mayfield Rock Party,
like that's that middle class that to me is the
I think you described it as we're talking about high
end trailers.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Low end trucks, that those are the.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Guys that I kind of circled, so that that that
club of that truck light or trailer plus is a
collection of Dak Prescott, it is Jared Goff, It's Jordan Love,
it's Baker Mayfield. It's rock party like that. That's like
(13:44):
the five man middle man I think between there.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So the funny thing we're talking about quarterbacks and we're
talking about first round quarterbacks falling in that designation, Baker
Mayfield being a former number one overall, Jordan Love being
a first round pick, look, brock Perdy being mystery relevant.
But he has played at a high level, and I
know people have been very very dismissive of his talents
based on Kyle Shanahan and the supporting cast and those things.
(14:10):
But we've seen others step into that role and been
unable to generate the kind of production that he's been
able to generate. So he deserves to be in that tier.
It's just an interesting thing. And what it speaks to
is when we take it back to the draft and
we're looking at quarterbacks and we're projecting what a quarterback
is going to be in the league DJ. A lot
(14:32):
of it is being able to honestly say and kind
of put expectations on. Look, this guy is not necessarily
a truck, but we can have a lot of success
if he's a high end trailer and we surround him
with the right stuff and as being honest enough to know,
everybody that we take early does not have truck capability.
But if we take him in this round, he has
(14:53):
enough to be in that Baker Mayfield category that we're
talking about, this tier that is whatever truck like trailer
plus whatever we decide that we want to call it.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
If I'm looking through and I'll go through this thing
here one second, all write some other names now, so
I know some people are going to say, you guys
have missed so many different names here along through this process.
Here's here's the other way I would look at it,
like to us had tremendous success. But he is like
the poster child of a high end.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Trailer, very dependent.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
He needs he needs it all and weapons and all
that stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
And that's not us saying that he's not a good player,
but it's very obvious that he needs all of those things,
Like he might be limited if we took him out
of that offense and put him in another offense. He's
not necessarily like I would say team friendly for everybody,
Like every coach wouldn't work with him. It wouldn't it
wouldn't have the same kind of production that Mike McDaniels
(15:51):
has been able to have with him. And that's okay.
Like most of the league, We've said this, eighty percent
of the league consists of system players where they need
to be in the right system to be able to
really max out their talents. I believe two of falls
in that category, and some of the guys that we're
talking about, even in the Truck like Trailer plus Keelery,
(16:12):
they also fall in that. Like it's very important that
the scheme and the stuff that they're playing in really
sets them up for success.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, then you start getting into some guys like that
I think have a chance, Like if I were going
to tell you guys that had a chance to elevate themselves, right,
so they're they're young or still in their earlier in
their development, but I think Drake May has a chance
to be a truck with all of the skills that
he possesses, So I'd put him in that potential truck
(16:42):
as a young player. You know, Trevor Lawrence is a
weird one because it's like is he is he young
enough to be considered in that potential truck or is
he kind of settled into that? You know his upside
as a high end trailer. That's a that's a challenging
one for me.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Look, it's a very challenging winner is I think one
that uh it was there. I was funny because I
was like, I wonder, when we're gonna get to Trevor,
what is truck Trevor qualified? Because twenty twenty two, Trevor
would fall into that light plus category that we're talking about.
Like even in fact, I think coming off of that
year DJ he was in that tier that people were regarding.
(17:21):
We're talking about c J. Stroud and Jade and Daniels,
that tier that's right below the big four. Have to
see it, and I think, look, I can wax poetic
about what they've done in the three p's, but he
has to play at a level that makes us get
in there. I think the best thing for the Jags
and for him is if he plays at a Jery
Golf level, that should be plenty good enough for them
(17:41):
to win and get into that that ten win category.
But he has to play at that level. And the
one thing that Jered Golf has done, he's been crazy
consistent in the last two plus years in Detroit. That
consistency is what allows you to feel confident that high
end low whatever, high end trailer lower, that's that's his.
That's is a ceiling probably, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I don't I think on him getting into the elite club.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
But I think, but I think that's a good muse
for him and everyone around him to do. And I
think it's interesting with Liam Cohen and James Glasson coming
from the Rams to be able to have that. I
don't think he's necessarily the super nova like Matthew Stafford is,
but they did have a lot of success with Jared Goff.
If you used as as a as a muse and
kind of build it around him like that, you certainly
(18:28):
can have the high end production and performs to Jared
Goff is that and Debt was super Bowl caliber because
he got the super Bowl, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I think Caleb, I think Nick's love, I think all
those guys have, they have potential to develop into the trucks. Obviously,
you know Loves a little further on on his journey,
a little closer there. But I think with with with
Caleb and with bo Nix, I think you've got the
uh the potential there to to find yourself in that category.
(18:57):
Then some of the ones we just don't know enough about,
like Pennix, J. J. McCarthy, like we just don't know yet,
you know. But I think Kyler Murray's a tricky one,
you know, Like I just I think Kyler Murray and
Sam Donald are both in the They're just I think
they're both like really good trailers. They're gonna need they're
(19:17):
gonna need some stuff. But they're talented, talent guys.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
You know. It's funny because that's why I was wondering.
And we'll eventually get to it when the Enigmas thing.
But yeah, Kyler Murray and Sam Donald are interesting given
what we've seen so Sam Donald first, last year's coming
off a career year. We saw what Kevin O'Connor was
able to do and how they were able to set
him up for success. We saw what the weapons around
him did in terms of being able to set it off,
(19:42):
but then we also saw how it finished with two
games that weren't his best games. And so it leaves
you wondering, what have we seen the best that he
can offer? When it comes to the perfect situation in
Minnesota and Kennesse, Seattle Seahawks replicate that in the Pacific Northwest,
can they put him in an environment that allowed him
to play it like he played in Minnesota. That'll let
(20:03):
us know a lot. And then Cala Murray is tricky
because we saw the flashes right Hayley's comment, what he
was able to do early office Rookie of the years success,
running around a little bit of the road runner with
the big time arm. Then the injury happens. The injury
takes away some of that, and he's not as dynamic
(20:24):
and electric good believes you wanting more. And then I
know people are in this weird spot when it comes
to judging quarterbacks by wins and those things. But he
has a sub five hundred record as a starter. You
have seen this team kind of be whole hum with
him there. So there is this question about man, what
(20:46):
is our ceiling with Caler Murray? And at some point
the building is gonna come due, that contract is hefty?
What's the return on investment?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
If I was gonna ask you in that we have
the Big four, right, so they're standing alone there, But
in that next group behind them, where we have Stroud, Herbert,
Jade Daniels hurts, you know, we still have Stafford is
kind of older. You've got Golf as a maybe in there.
But in that next group, if I just gave you
(21:16):
these three names, Jade Daniels, Justin, Herbert c. J. Stroud,
which one of those guys has a chance to make
the Big four the Big five?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I think, based on movies saw last year, I'm more
willing to bet on Jaydeen Daniels. And the reason why
is is to do a threat. It's his ability to
be able to dominate the game as a runner and
as a thrower. And I'm being honest with you, DJ.
I never thought he would have success running in the
league that he said. And I know he showed flashes
and did all that stuff at LSU, but with the frame,
I was like, man, there's no way this dude's gonna
(21:49):
be running quarterback counter and whatever. I thought he would
be more of a scrambler than a design runner. But
he's proven that he can be a design runner. To me,
he has superstar potential and I'm trying to be very
very light when it comes to putting that expectation on him.
But he has the kind of moxie and stuff in
(22:10):
big game performance that he could be a superstar in
this league. He never appears to be routed, like never,
maybe year two when the league has circulated everything around
him and he gets kind of different things that he's seen.
I've just never seen him rattle. And to me, that
poise allows you to perform at a level that you
have some more levers, some more gears that you can
(22:31):
go to, because he does have such an emotional maturity
about his game.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, I don't know how I could disagree with you
on that. And you know, I think there's a very
real possible. I'd say it's greater than fifty percent next year.
At this time we're talking about at least it's a
big five, you know. May maybe we see all these
guys enter into that into that category, but I think
I would. Man, it's easy to bet on Jayden Daniels.
I mean, I think they're only going to get better
(22:56):
around him, too. Man, I don't think they have like
an elite supporting cast by any stretch.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Not at all last year and then you had Deebo.
You had so many other stuff that you did. You
had a left tackle. I mean, Brian robinsons back. They're
going to be physical. And now Cliff Kingsbury knows what
this guy's gonna do. Before you speculated projecting how you
can play in your system. Now you have a full
year to see. Oh man, he did this, so we
(23:21):
can go to of course two oh one as opposed
to living in one on one debt. Just a different
just a different thing.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, go back through Josh Connery, their first round pick.
So that's an upgrade at the at the tackle spots
they got you know, really really talent, really talented there. Uh,
to upgrade that group. We'll see if some of these
other young guys that they got in the mix, you know,
Luke McCaffrey in his next year, see Jalen Lane, the
rookie who can fly, who they've picked up. So, I
mean they've they've upgraded some of the pieces. I still think, uh,
(23:52):
you know, it's not in the upper echelon group of
supporting casts, but I mean it's hard to see what
you saw last year and not believe that's going to
be the case. So I think the moral of the
story of this is we can talk about trucks and
trailers and you can have debatables, but I think when
you go through it and flesh out the process, it
does feel like there's the Big Four, there's a little
bit of a gap, and then you've got a mix
of three three to five guys that you know, trying
(24:14):
to compete there. You've got the high end trailers, you know,
the guys that are consistent, you know the I think
brock Perdy is kind of in that he's in that
mode to us in that mode and if he can
get out there and stay healthy. So there's there's these
different little tiers of guys. But it'll be interesting to
see next year if we can see some of these
guys kind of crash the party of the Big four.
(24:35):
And the other thing that I'm looking at that Buck
Josh Allen, AFC, Lamar Jackson, AFC Burrough, AFC, Mahomes afc OO.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
It's a gauntlet. And we talked about building championship teams,
and we talked about it, you better have a team
that can can go and deal with the murderers row.
It also changes the way that you look at quarterbacks.
If you're an AFC team, you have to be able
to envision your quarterback winning a shootout against what are
all of the four from in the AFC. I mean,
(25:04):
but that's what we're talking about, like your.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Quarterback and the two of the next three are in
the AFC. So kind of looking at these tiers, six
of the top seven guys are AFC.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Quarterbacks the murderer's row of the And it's also why
Jayden Daniels has a clean runway. Oh yeah, I mean,
it's it's right there for him. Yeah, it's all right
there for him. So when it comes to we talk
about building team, being able to win your division and
then looking out how to win your conference, you better
have someone that you can see win a shootout. Because
as much as you want to protect them, as much
(25:34):
as we want to have like a high end trail
and say, hey, we can surround them in those games
against those guys that are monster trucks, you have to
be able to level up and go there. Now, to
his credit, Jalen Hurts, we've seen him do that multiple
times in those big games We've seen him out play
Pat Mahomes in the biggest game and get and we're
(25:55):
able to give him credit for being able to do that.
So he has that ability to take it up a notch.
Everyone doesn't have that capacity, and so that's what we're
looking for when we're looking at the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, I mean, I guess I don't want to insult
Hurts by not putting him in that in that company there.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
With him and Jade Daniels. We put it right on
the border and look, yeah we do it. We treat
it like the draft room. We put him right on
that line, deadline where we see in the room that hey,
his greatest right here. We can put him right on
the line and give him a chance to play into
that category because he very well could play into that.
Because look, if the Philadelphia Eagles started looking like they
(26:31):
are a back to back type team, and if it's
like that because of his performance and the way that
he plays, and if he shows us another, uh, another
array of skills or things that you know, always talking
about working on your game and coming back with something added,
another dimension, man, if he has another dimension, and yeah,
without doubt, he goes into that category.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, I mean, I because I know, I'm sure we'll
get some grief from Philadelphia folks on there, and you
guys talk some much about Jayden Daniels and Hurts is
super MVP. But I would just pose this question, and
it's not an insult to Hurts. I appreciate his game,
I appreciate how he's played in two Super Bowls, and
his leadership is toughness. I mean, we've we've been very,
very effusive in our praise since he entered into the
(27:14):
league when we were talking about him. But I just
have a hard time if you just if you look
at it and be objective, if they swap teams, you
put Jaden Daniels in there with that Philadelphia group and
then you put Hurts on Washington. I don't know anybody
that could argue that Jaden Daniels doesn't have even more
(27:36):
success with the Eagles and that Hurts. Would be a
hard time for me imagining him getting the same out
of that group over there that Jade and Daniels did
so and it's not an insult. He's a great fit
in Philly and he's winning and got paid all that stuff.
It's just to me, I would take Jaden Daniels over him,
even though in the winning is heavily favored towards Hurts.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Well, I mean, I think some of that is when
we talk about all this, some of that comes down
to skill set and the one thing that I would
say about Jade and Daniels, I would give him the
edge over Hurts as a pure pocket passer, where I
would say that Hurts is the more rugged, the more
physical runner. There's like an explosives to Jalen Daniels that
(28:23):
is a little different. So that's why I would rank
him over top of Hurts without being distract with ahearts
ability because I do believe he can get to that category.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yep, same, All right, by quick break, come back, We're
gonna hear on your enigma seven enigmas for the next
for the upcoming season. Right after this, all right, bock
taking away seven enigmas.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Shoot, okay, sogmas. We're talking about guys who are really
good players, but just trying to figure out man are
the good to great? And some of this has to
do with the contract. So the first guy on the
list we talked about already was Caler Murray. Caller Murray.
The Cardinals win and they paid him the extension. There's
a lot of conversation about the extension when it came
to whether preparation habits, study habits and all that, but
(29:08):
you couldn't dispute the success that the team had with
him and you wanted to retain them. We're now we're
in this weird place where we talked about sub five
hundred record, the playoff wins. You're just trying to figure
out where do we put a guy that we're gonna
be on the hook for a lot of money for
and we're gonna have to eventually do an extension. So
(29:28):
with Calla Murray, I want to see if you can
go from good to great. He's flashed great at times,
but he's been more good than anything. But can he
go to the next category? And so that's why he's
a little in that enigmatic for me when it comes
to talking about where he fits in the landscape.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yeah, man, the talent is there. To me, it's like,
can you stay healthy and fresh and play fast, you
know throughout a full season. You've got you know, some
nice pieces around you there, man, the buffed up mar
Harrison Junior. I'm curious to see if he can you know,
he play a little bit better this next year, get
a little more comfortable, uh in their system, and they
(30:06):
properly know how to use him and get something there.
But I mean that's I talked about this with somebody
the other day. There's you think about shot dispersion and golf,
you know, like how how far are you spraying it?
If you think about win totals of like teams that
could you know, you're saying they're gonna win between this
and that many games, Like I've mentioned the Pittsburgh Steelers
have to me, they're Pittsburgh Steelers. There's no universe where
(30:27):
they don't win nine to eleven like they that's it.
They're not gonna win five games. They're not gonna win
fifteen games. They're a nine to eleven win team. I
feel like the Arizona Cardinals, if you told me next
year that they won six games or thirteen games, I mean,
I I don't know that. I would, you know, disagree
all over the map. And I think that goes to
(30:48):
him being enigmatic. You don't know what you're gonna get.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, you don't know what you can get. And there
is something to that, and so like with all of
these guys that we talked about, part of them being
a enigma is the lack of consistency. So can he
smooth without his game where we know each and every
week this is what we're getting from Arizona Cardinal CB?
All Right, who's next? How about George Pickens? Like George
Pickens like look the best that never was right in
(31:11):
terms of there's so much excitement about the things that
he can do. HeSE just someone who averages over sixteen
yards per catching their career, that is a big play specialist,
someone who has a thousand yard season on the resume,
someone who is dynamic, electric, he can take over the
game and those things, but someone who also has a
handful of things that leave you scratching your head one?
(31:32):
Can he bring the emotional stability that he needs to
be a great player each and every week? Can he
moved beyond some of the things that I would call
distract him from the film where there's lack of touches,
not feeling like he's involved in the game, and those things,
and just concentrate on being great in whatever role that
is for that game. You first seed d Lamb and
(31:54):
Brian Schottenheimer and those guys talk about, Hey, we don't
have a one and a two wide receiver, we have
one eight and one B. When it comes to Cede
Lamb and George Pickens, respectively, I want to see how
this plays out, because if he is truly a number one,
he should have plenty of opportunities to dominate opposite someone
that commands a lot of attention like Ceedee Lamb.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, maybe this is this is the spot. It's all
in there. If he can get comfortable and settle in,
let the ability show. I mean, gosh, he's never played
with anybody like Ceedee Lamb, so that could be fun.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
It could be fun. So the next guy, we'll go
to the New York Johnts and this is one that
was Look, he's been an enigma since the draft cave
on Tiboda coming out of Oregon. There's a lot of
conversation in terms of how does he fit as an
elite past rushing prospect. You can see the body type,
the size would he hold up? Then you wondered the
motors sometimes ran hot or cold. You go to the Giants,
(32:49):
you see him little slow star pop double digit Sacks
comes back a little bit this year. Which one are
we getting they do decide to pick up the fifth
year option in those things. But for Kaveon Thibodeau, the
question is, man, if he was so great, why do
we go out and get Brian Burns? Why do we
double down and come back and get Abdul Carter to
surrounded with Dexter Lawrence. If Kvon Thibadeau can't give you
(33:13):
double digit sacks now with all of the attention for
usd to go elsewhere, what is he really going to
be in this league? And better? Yet, if you're the Giants,
what does he mean for us? When we talk about
taking someone into top five DJ, you know what that means.
When we say top five player, we talk about transcendent,
blue chip, perennial Pro Bowl, All Star accolades. Is Kaveon
(33:36):
Thibadau gonna give us that? Or is he just gonna
be a really good player that can play opposite someone
that's a dominant player.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I remember the two knocks on him coming out. Number
one did not play with his hair on fire. There
were some you know, there were some plays he definitely
took off.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
And then number two.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
You remember it was like a kind of what motivates
this guy? Is he loved ball kind of love what
ball gives you a high, high profile recruit coming out,
you know, it's kind of like, okay, what what what
makes this guy?
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Tech?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Well, if he's motivated by money, he's gonna have a
good year because you know, you want to get that
next contract and now you're gonna have to fight for
playing time.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
With this crowded the group as they have there with
the Giants.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
So there's keeping your job and then there's the financial
aspect that's out there for him. So you know, not
to mention just wanting to play well, there should be
plenty incentive for him to have a good year.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, man, look is now or never. In terms of
Kavon Tabueau carving out a role that makes him a
big money player in New York, and we understand in
New York the pressure is different, bright lights, big stage.
We'll see if you can live up to it. How
about this name, Tyreek Willin from the Seattle Seahawks. The
reason why I have him as a enigma that that
rookie year DJ. You remember we were all like, oh man,
(34:42):
we ripped up our porch. We're all wrong. He's supersized,
he's talented and nose and nose goes to the pro
bowler people are talking about, well maybe he's better than
Sauce Gardner on the Island and all of that stuff. Well,
then he didn't play at that level. It's kind of
been up and down, been a bumpy road, and you wonder.
We talked about the side the tools to talent, but
it hasn't been the consistency that you want to see.
(35:05):
So where is who are you? That's the biggest question.
If you're a front office guy looking at Tarrek Willam,
which one's going to show up on Sundays.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I'm someone who you know, the group that drafted him.
This is a new regime there, so maybe that was
just a little adjustment period and we'll see, we'll see
better form out of him.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
He'll go last one that I talked about, but DJ
this is the one that I think everyone is trying
to do it and as offensive fans, cal Pits is
the eighth wonder of the world. Right when he was
coming out.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
That report, I've got that thing so hidden that things
behind the lock and key, right, you need that night
vision to go find that where I had that report.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
No, but like the fascination that we had over him
and what he could be man half man, half amazing,
half wide out, half tied in. He can do so
many different things. We can create all these mismatches. He
has a thousand yard season right out the gate, but
then he can't find the end zone. And so we've
never seen someone who's so productive but can't put points
(36:00):
on the board and you wanted. We've seen multiple coaches
come through there, multiple play calls trying to figure out
and we still are like, the talent says one thing,
but the performance and the production says something else. So
where do we fall? Is it the player or is
it the play caller? Why can't we unlock someone who
would deem to be such a special player given the tools,
(36:25):
but the tools haven't necessarily translated into the kind of
dominance that we would expect to see on the perimeter.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
He's got ten touchdowns buck four years, had four last year,
which was the most that he's had. But after that
thousand yard season, he only plays ten games three hundred
and fifty six yards, then seventeen games that the last
two years and just over six hundred yards seven total touchdowns.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
The good thing is, you know, when you look at him. Gosh,
he's still he's.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Twenty four years old. I mean, he's still young man,
twenty four years old. It's in there some I don't know.
I don't know if I'm all that confident you're gonna
find it. But manle I know, talk.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
About a whiff. I won't call it a complete wip,
but I will say, given where he was drafted.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
At that position, you don't take a tight end up
there unless you're expecting him to be man.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
You're expecting man. You're expecting him to be game busses
and he hasn't been that. And every year we hold
out hope and we talk about fantasy and what we
expect to see, we just haven't seen it. And we're
at that point where we have to make hard decisions.
How much are we willing to pay someone that can't
put the ball in the paint. DJ We can talk
about tight ends and some would say tight ends or
(37:39):
a diamond doesn't unless you can put him if you
listen to put the ball in the end zone. Ten
touchdowns over a four years, two and a half a year,
it's not enough for doubts.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
The most the most frustrating thing for me, and I've
seen him play live in the NFL. Is that there's
the best way to describe it is there's guys who
are aggressive to the ball and there's guys who are
passive to the ball. He is passive to the ball.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Man.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
He plays small, he doesn't go, he doesn't attack it.
He doesn't It's not a my ball mentality. And I
don't know, man, You tell me now, as someone who's
played the position you at least as a pass catcher,
do you do you.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Develop into that or you have it or you don't
have it. I don't think you can develop it. I
think you have it. I mean I think it's only
so much. That's not good news. Then, yeah, that's only
so much you can do when it comes to being
a go getter, like you kind of have it in
you or whatever, like you can push it up or level,
but you kind of are a dominant guy when it
(38:37):
comes to that personality. I want to get it. I'm
gonna get it all the time or not. And he
hasn't shown that. And if you're the Falcons, you're disappointed
given what you've committed and what you've poured into him
as a top five pick, he hasn't delivered, and it
just makes it bad because DJ, we've seen it. We
were talking about the tight end class this year and
there was so much tell the Warrant Coast and Loveland
(38:57):
and those guys tight ends are hard and they can
kind of come from everywhere. But what he was given,
the tools that he was blessed with, you would think
that he would be from day one, a dominant player
on the perimeter, a matchup nightmare, a headache for opposing
de coordinators. And he hasn't been. You know where the
pick was right after him? Who Jamar, Chase, Jeez, Louise.
(39:24):
Not great.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
But again, I shoot, I missed on him, so I
can't say nothing. I missed on him.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
So hopefully, hey, maybe he proves us. All right.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
We've seen it in the past where somebody kind of
just pops. Maybe this is the Maybe this is the year,
and I'm confident in that. But man, I would like
to try and find that report and dust it off
and read it again. Hidden lock and key, Buddy, lock
and key.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Right now?
Speaker 2 (39:44):
All right, that's gonna do it for us today, Buck,
anything else you want tod before we get out of here.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
No, always fun, man, Always fun to have these discussions
part of the things that you want to do as
an evaluators. You always want to kind of do a
check in balance with yourself, look at what you think
about people, how they evaluate. Do you need to change
your how's the league changed? So being able to have
these discussions certainly help us kind of revisit some of
the old reports and some of the old opinions that
we had on players. Yeah, no, it is.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
It's always healthy to go back and look at that stuff.
I'm just pulling up my notes here real quick before
we get out of here. Kyle Pitts he improved as
a blocker, inline wing, flexed out, He's dynamic, you run
pivot routes, got some Kelsey to him. He knows how
to set up defenders, big catch radius, juicy yack. But
there's nothing in there about attacking the ball and being aggressive,
(40:32):
and that's that's unfortunate because that's been a major issue there.
So we'll see maybe this is the year cal Pits
and some of these other enigmas get it, get it
going and figure it out. But check out that article
by the way NFL dot com. You can see Bucky's
work there. As we look at some of the truly
interesting players as we head into the twenty twenty five season.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
That's gonna do it for us. We'll see you next time,
right here on Movi. The Sticks
Hosts And Creators
Daniel Jeremiah
Bucky Brooks
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