December 25, 2025 • 30 mins
Celebrate Christmas Day with a special Best Of edition of Move the Sticks, as Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks revisit three of their favorite conversations from the year. This holiday episode features in-depth interviews with Stanford General Manager Andrew Luck (1:22), former NFL GM Tom Telesco (11:21), and 7-time All-Pro linebacker Luke Kuechly (22:08).
Luck discusses his approach to building Stanford football and the importance of culture and leadership at the college level. Telesco shares front-office perspective on quarterback evaluation, roster construction, and his excitement surrounding Philip Rivers’ return to the NFL. Kuechly offers a deep dive into defensive preparation, communication, and what separated elite units during his career.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now Move the Sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What's up, everybody.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Welcome to Move the Sticks DJ here and excited for
you guys to hear this episode we have here. It's
going to be a little bit of a best of
here as we look back at some great conversations we've
been able to have. One of the things that Bucky
and I love about this podcast is the opportunity to
talk with some guys really interested in terms of their viewpoint,
their philosophy, their stories, their history. And we've had some
(00:31):
great ones over the years. We've been doing this over
a decade actually, but I wanted to pay play three
of them for you. Here three of our favorites from
this year with Andrew Luck, who is a general manager
at Stanford as he's taken over his Alma Maters football program.
Tom to LESCo has been a general manager of the
National Football League for over a decade with the Chargers
and the Raiders, as well as a ton of experience
(00:53):
with the cults around Peyton Manning in those years. Just
one of the really really bright guys. I've always enjoyed
listening to Tom and and count them as a true
friend and then another friend and Luke Keickley, one of
the greatest linebackers of all time, is someone that we've
had a chance to visit with over the years and
always just this fascinating guy, really really football intelligent, just
(01:13):
intelligent period. So I want to play those conversations for
a little best of here our conversations with Andrew Luck,
Tom Felesco and Luke Keigley. All right, buck excited to
have with us a player we both scouted back in
our NFL days and someone who has had an incredible
journey and is now the general manager for the Stanford Cardinal.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Andrew Luck joined us. Andrew, how you doing, man.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I'm doing really well. To be clear, this is not
my jersey behind me. It's John Brody. I've get dogged on.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
No, no, no, I.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Have my plunk at jersey next to it. I tried
to that the wire was wrong and I was like, da,
I gave up. So I put John Brody back up.
Speaker 6 (01:49):
Because you went in to approprimate that was one and
eleven before you got that. You've seen it go from
the bottom to where they had the pinnacle of Stanford football.
How do you take what you learned as a player,
you replicate that as a gentleman.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
There are some timeless principles in our sport, right, and
there's probably some timeless principles organizationally across industries. And like
the world has changed. We are paying players and we're
excited about it.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
The transfer portal is different than when I was in school.
One Coach Harbaugh's having a leader of the program and
had deep, deep conviction that we were going to win,
and what might be perceived as challenges, we're not going
to be excuses, right at all.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Right, Coach Harba said, well, shoot, if we can.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Only recruit forty or fifty guys a year because of
the academic threshold, let's go find the best forty or
fifty and make sure our yield is higher than everybody else.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Right in high school. Creit good.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
That's profoundly affecting how I do this too. Let's build
a foundation of like hard work, respecting each other, holding
really really really high standards because we have high expectations.
We have very high expectations, and those have to be
rooted in very high standards and really high care. Right,
And so are those coaching staffs. Coach Arball, Coach Shaw afterwards.
(03:00):
They did it authentically. Coach Harball was authentically himself. Coach
Shaw was authentically himself. I learned to be the best quarterback.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I could be.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
I had to be me right, including walking into a
locker room where Peyton Manning had been the previous quarterback.
Is if I if I was trying to be Peyton
a version you know, Andrew's version of Peyton, that it
would fail quickly, right, fail quickly, And I was It
was given license by Dwight Freeney on day one walking
in that locker room said Andrew, you need to be
the best you you can be. No one else this
(03:28):
team just needs you. That that meant a whole lot
as a young rookie quarterback coming into you know, into
that space, so you know, one, bringing all of me
as a leader to this thing. Uh two, Going and
finding the unicorns around the country at high school that
that have the grades and and ball out right, that
are willing to put the work in and willing to
(03:50):
learn and play great football. Building a culture of brotherhood
where our young men are playing for each other and
you and you mentioned it too, Frank. Frank has done
an unbelievable job this year. He saved my bacon man
coming in for eight months and doing this thing and
the progress that our team has made is unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I'm proud of him. I'm proud of our staff.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I get proud watching these guys every Saturday go out
and lay it on the line.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
And it's a wonderful thing to be a part of.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
You touched on two things I wanted to get some
further thought on because you talked about the foundation and
build out foundation. I think of your studies and your
background in design, architectural design, like how that plays into
it and what does this foundation need to be to
go forward? And the second thing is we've talked a
lot and just talking to our buddies and GM roles
in all different sports. The phrase that we've heard more
(04:39):
than any other the last twenty four months has been
care factor. We can talk about it's easy, the scouting,
the talent, really, it is what it is. But trying
to find guys with a very high care factor is
the challenge. How do you go about doing that when
you're visiting with seventeen eighteen year old kids?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Oh man, it is That's what a great question. It
is the question think I think of care factor at
two different levels, like one at the individual, do I like,
do I love football?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Do I? And do I love learning?
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Right?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Because that do I?
Speaker 4 (05:11):
And have I seen enough evidence that I can get
better at football?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Right? Like?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
You want kids who are just obsessed about getting better
at football because it's that gets to become an addictive feeling.
And that's a virtuous fly cycle, right, Like like a flywheel,
I'm like, yeah, better, better, better, better. Frank Reich has
done that for our guys. They've gotten better that coaching
our staff like in combect and then also for our staff, right,
are we getting better? Am I getting better?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
In this job? Is there?
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Is there a level of intrinsic motivation often tied with
love of something?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Right?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Hard to want to get better at something if you
if you just sort of like it a little bit,
or or like really don't like it. But sussing that out,
I'm not sure I have a formula yet, you know
some of it. Some of it I think is gut
instinct and feel right. Maybe that's the art of recruiting
or personnel. I think someone it's the right line of
questioning and and and oftentimes it's you gotta find character references.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Right. You gotta find people who who who.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Will spill some story that has some nugget of truth
and put enough of those nuggets of truth together to
find a picture, and then you take a leap of faith.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
But I also I also believe a care factor of
how are we as a program taking care of our
people right and giving everyone the best chance to have
their care fractor grow as they as there. It's not
a static thing, right, is not a static right? Like
we have to be a place that you know, I
mentioned high expectations and standards and high care. Like high
(06:37):
standards and high care. That's the right combination. It gets
old if there's really high standards and low care.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Right. It also gets old it's kid gloves if it's
real high care and low standards. Right.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
And there's a there's a quote from one of my mentors,
Admiral Sandy Winfel, an amazing man. He's got a great
book on leadership called Sailing Up. When he was I'm
going to say the words rang a chief of staff
for Cole and Pale at some point and Colon turned
him in a car. He tells this great story. We
turned him in a car and said sandy morale has
never been improved by lowering standards.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Used to be like, so, how do we have a
system of high care and high standards and find the
people that will thrive in that system. And look, I'm
like nine months in this job. I like the data
is not there, but like we got I should say,
the big, big, big data. I know we're on the
right path. I have a conviction that this is the
right path. But it's there's a there's faith in this
(07:30):
right you know. I'd love to be sitting here five
years from I was saying, yeah, we just won for
national team. But that's that's That's how I'm approaching both
the the like sussing out care factor and and you
gotta hold up, you're into the bargain too. You got
to help young men tend that care factor and grow it.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I was thinking back to the first time I went
on campus at Stanford and where we used to park
at Scouts. We'd have to walk across them. I remember
the first time Buck, we've talked about this. I remember
parking the first time, and it was a fall day.
It wasn't an early visit. It was a little bit
later in the fall and I remember walking across and
I swear I thought it was I was on a
sound stage or something, because the leaves just kind of
(08:11):
started falling. I looked to my left and there's the
women's soccer team practicing. I'm sure there's probably six Olympians there.
Then I heard the ping of the of the baseball bat,
and I'm sure there's probably a couple first round picks
on that field as they were kicking some VP walk
by the pool where there's a high diver, and I'm
sure I don't know which country, but there's an Olympian
that's just jumping off the high dive, and then I
walked in the building. I remember after that day, Andrew
(08:32):
I called my parents and I said, if you would
have taken me to Stanford in eighth grade, I would
have got better grades in high school. I didn't know
a place like this existed. So how important is it
for you when you're recruiting these guys to get them
on campus and not just taking your word for it,
but come experience it.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Oh it's huge. I mean I don't mean this in
a snobby or snody way, but it's a special place.
As you laid out and like I'll finish your story.
And then you walked into a football building and there's
David Dicastro and Kobe in myself Zach Ertz who is
like down the fountain of youth and just an like
stillballing at a level that you know, these tight ends
(09:09):
playing forever is unbelievable, man. And yeah, we think it's
a special place. You know, I met my wife here.
She was a gymnast right represent the Czech Republic. We
all live in a dorm freshman year with a random roommate. Like,
that's where else do you get that in life?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Right?
Speaker 4 (09:23):
And we need kids to embrace that. It's I'm still
friends with my dormmate Dennis Carmen and are from Turkey's
an amazing dude who lives in the Bay Area, right, Like,
it's an amazing place. And you mentioned the sports. You're
also going by a you know, an academic building where
we're we're unbelievable breakthroughs in whatever mission it is are happening.
It's it's it's a place that rewards the pursuit of excellent,
(09:45):
not just attaining excellence, but the pursuit you know, so
getting getting young men in their families on campus is
core to our recruiting strategy because we think it sells itself.
And then my job really is to make sure that
the football is serious, right, like serious, like what I
like aspects of what I had old school principles, some
new school methods, you know, but there are some timeless
(10:07):
truth But because I came to Stanford, you know, I'm
in too. Maybe more succinctly answer the first question. I
came to Stanford because it was serious about football and
it was a place where I did not want to
take myself too seriously. But our guys are embracing the
seriousness of football. My year, I think we had we
had neca Ogl Mike go first overall in the WNBA. Amazing,
(10:29):
you know, it's this amazing hoopster from Houston as well.
I went first overall in the NFL draft. Mark a
Pell was either drafted as a pitcher, drafted like first
or top five. It was like, like, I go to
the Olympics. My wife's a producer for gymnastics on NBC.
I went to the Paris Olympics.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
What a treat.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Like, there's fifty nine Stanford affiliated athletes. My classmates, you know,
Catarina Stephanidie pole vault or grease gold medalist at Real.
We were in the training room together, like that's awesome.
Watched Eric Shoji when a bron met bronze medal, and
volleyball who was freshman door mats with my teammates, like
we're boys. We partied together. You know, It's an amazing
(11:08):
group to be a part of. And I love that
our football team is part of a broader fabric and
culture of let's go figure out how to be excellent.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Philip Rivers, nobody knows him as well as you do, Tom,
all the years you spent together with the Chargers watching
him play. I've tried to caution people that have just
laughed this whole thing off, versus saying, hey, I know.
I think it was like they're two touchdown underdogs at Seattle.
I know Seattle's defense and whether or not I'm like, look,
the second week is another thing, and see how his
(11:42):
body can recover.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
But maybe I'm in the minority.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I'm like, for one week, I think Philip Rivers might
be able to screen his.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Way to a close game up there in Seattle.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Tell you what I was with Philip for seven years.
Shane Stikeen for eight I should have known better that's
gonna happen. I mean, I was doing a live radio
interview Monday morning before any of this broke. I was
on with with Doug Gottlieb and Fox Sports Radio and
we're talking about Daniel Jones's injury and he asked me,
He's like, hey, do you think the Colts would reach
out to Philip Rivers? And I gave him one of
(12:12):
these I'm like, he's been not a football for five years.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
That's not gonna have So that I talked about Riley
Leonard for a while.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
I thought Rolly Leonard played played really well last week,
So talk about Riley Leonard. And then I think a
couple hours later it kind of comes out that Philip
was going to work out for the Colts, and I'm like, oh,
I'm supposed to be the expert.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Analyst and I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
But I'll tell you what, from a fan standpoint, is fascinating.
When I put my GM hat on, I'm like, you know,
it's not just he's playing at forty four.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
It said he hasn't played in five years.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
So to me, like the time Brady comparison is not
a comparison because time Brady was active the whole time.
So you know, I was just concerned about, you know,
the movement skill. It's concerned about you know, reaction times.
If you're off just a millisecond. In the NFL, it's
a big difference. Concerned about soft tissue injury or worse.
But then I watched the press conference yesterday that Philip
did and had me convinced. I'm like, hell, why not?
(13:10):
And that's the way Philip is Like. I'm watching that
and I'm thinking all the reasons why you maybe you
shouldn't do it. And then I'm like, he's got me, like, yeah,
let's go. Let' see that's how he plays. Don't worry
about the results, just go off there and let it rip.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Buck. That's this guy. That's must see TV. I can't wait.
I cannot wait to watch it either. Man. I'm so
I'm so scared for him.
Speaker 7 (13:27):
Like just in terms of everybody who's ever played anything
always believed that they still got a little left, and
I'm just worried.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Five years away from the game, Philip talked about I'm
not at my playing weight. I'm about twenty miles here.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
I just I'm just fearful of him having to move
around and something bad happened. Even though I love the Maxie,
I love his gun slinging ways all of that, I'm
just really concerned about him being able to survive a
game and then go into the next We're gonna.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Have to play another one.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Actually, Like like DJ said, it's not just this game
is the recovery for the next one, the next one,
next one for that. It's just it's gonna be tired.
But I can't wait to watch it. I really can't.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I was joking with somebody this morning that, you know,
back in the day, we used to have you know,
you have your practice, your two hour practice, and we
had a ten minute screen period. I said, this is
going to be a ten two hour screen period with
ten minutes of other football sprinkled in there. Everything you
hit that ball out quick.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
I mean their offensive line is very good. They have
Jonathan Taylor who's going to get a ton of work,
which is a good thing. They've got Josh Downs, they
could they can run some screens with Michael Pittman is there,
and they've got Tyler Warren. I mean, he has all
the pieces around him. If this is gonna work that
that can help him. So yeah, I can't wait to
watch this against Seattle.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Oh man, this fuck. We haven't seen anything like this man.
And by the way, that the Tom Brady thing island.
Phillip's not a big I don't think he's a big
avocado toast. I don't think he's you know, doing all
that stuff. I don't think he's sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber.
Doesn't really sound like that's a River's style.
Speaker 7 (14:57):
I do have a question Tom, like with an older
because one thing that Philip has he has experience and expertise,
because he's seen everything that they could throw their way.
Is it possible that the one advantage that he gives
the Colts is their ability to improve their running game
because he can check in and out things that Riley
Leonard hasn't seen. Philip being able to dominate the line
of scrimmage in terms of getting them in the right
(15:19):
call could be.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, that's a great point. Just getting in. You know,
second and twelve is not good. Uh, second and six
is good, you know, so just getting it, you know,
like you said, out of a bad play he gets
he gets the wrong look makes a change, you know.
Picks up four or five yards on first down.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, there's no doubt.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I mean, there's no more coach on the field than
what Philip is going to be literally and figurative is a.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Coach, yes what I mean.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And with him and Shane, I mean they're running North
Turner's offense and basically they can finish each other's sentence
as it becomes exs and knows. So it, you know,
would be really fun to be on the headsets listen
to Shane. You know, now, now Philip can't talk back,
and the head set you can only hear me.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
You can mike him up. He's got to be miked
up for this. That would be a.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Tremendous viewing just to listen to that throughout the game
of those two kind of going through the game plan,
you know, in real time.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
I would imagine with the you know, all these teams
having their own media company basically in house, that they
hopefully document this thing all the way.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Hopefully, but I can tell you from experience, he doesn't
like being miked up. And most quarterbacks, most quarterbacks don't
want to do it, don't like it.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
They all have to do it once a year. So
maybe you know he's got four games left. You have
to do it for one of these four, the first one.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Oh gosh, I hope they do it, man, I want
to I want to hear it so bad. Is there
a position where you thought more patients was required than
others where it's just the learning curve there is so great.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Well, certainly quarterback. I used to think it was receiver,
but there's been more receivers that have come in early
and contributed early. It used to be as a receiver
you come in there's just a big adjustment period. There's
so many things going on pre snap that they have
to know and then post snap as far adjusting routes.
But I think, honestly, I think with the advent of
(17:13):
so much seven at seven in high school in the summertime,
and collegers throw the ball so much more than they
used to a long time ago, that that transitions is
a little easier now. But certainly quarterback, and then to me,
the second would be offensive line. There's just so many
techniques and tools of the trade that you learn that
just takes time and takes development over a number of years.
So those are probably the two positions. Defense a little
(17:35):
bit easier to probably transition. You know, you can always
fall back to seatball, get ball, but I say offensive
line and quarterback.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
That was always when I think DJ, what was your
what was your challenging position? As an even it was oh,
in terms of challenging position for me, it was always safety.
Speaker 7 (17:49):
Oh okay, yeah, it was always hard, just because like
old line was always hard for me.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
It's safety has gotten I'll tell you what the batting
average on safety. Don't or you this wul a be a
good question for Tom of how you how you watch it?
Because used to be when we were all grown up,
we were all taught, hey, four games, you need four
games and make an evaluation on the guys. You got
to watch four games. And I can watch four games.
You can watch four different games. We have totally wildly
different opinions, but with the ability to cut up the
tape now as efficiently as we can, like safeties for
(18:15):
me personally, like I've seen what was what I had
a lower batting average previously, since I've been able to
watch all the cutups, so to see an entire season
of key plays all the way through. I don't do
that from any positions, but safety position I do, and
I found out I'd rather watch an entire season of
key plays, you know, basically a hit tape versus you know,
(18:37):
randomly selecting four games for a safety where he might
be in the parking lot, you know, not seeing the
accent entire.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
That's the thing as safety is is, Yeah, there's a
lot of snaps where they're just not involved.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
So I agree with you, like.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
You need a lot of games for a safety. They
really feel good about your evaluation, probably more so than
any other position.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
But the fun thing with safety is is I mean
you have to.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Be able to tackle and play the run game almost
like a linebacker, but then you have to be able
to cover like a corner.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
So there are obviously the good ones. They're very hard
to find.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Is it takes a really wide skill set, But it
does take a lot of games at that position, just because, yeah,
there's a lot of times it's a too deep safety.
He's just backpedal and nothing's going on in front of him.
You may not have a run support responsibility. So as
far as a moni game tape, it takes a lot.
And then with the offensive line, I was the same
when I first started scouting the offensive line to me
was a bit foreign. And when I was with the Colts,
(19:29):
I sat down with Howard Mudd, who's one of the
best that's they've done it as far as offensive line coaches,
and I learned so much from him, not just sitting
down with him, but just spending time with him over
the years when I was in pro scouting at that point,
and just learning all the things that he would look
for in that position. Now I feel like I love
doing offensive lineman. I love doing centers. Centers to me,
I really, I mean sounds kind of kind of nerdish
(19:51):
for football wise. I love watching centers play, the levers,
the quickness, the pulling, the movement. So most of the
stuff I learned on offensive line play came from Howard.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
You know, I've long been fascinated by the questions that,
you know, what are the right questions to get to
some interesting answers to at least learn something about somebody.
So the one that we've been using lately is one
that I picked up for my buddy, Kim Coleman is
in the leadership space, Thomas. We Askedkeikley this. He gave
us a great answer. But I'll ask you this as
someone who's been a general manager. What ticked you off,
whether it was with staff.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Or you know, the job in general.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Oh my gosh, probably on a daily basis. You just
got to work through it. It's our job to have
answers rather than just always coming up with, you know,
complaints or problems, which you tend to get like the
one thing with it's hard being a college scout where
you're on the road, you're looking at college players.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
For the following year.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yet you're watching your team play every Sunday, and then
you tend to have a lot of opinions on what
your team should be doing right. You know, you're spending
Saturday usually watching the game on TV somewhere and you
call all your director, you call a GM, Hey, how
can we're not playing so and so?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Hey, how can we're warning the ball on third time
right here?
Speaker 1 (21:06):
And it would get hey, look trying to explain, Hey, look,
you're not here every day. You don't know the game plan,
you don't know who's practicing well, you don't know who's
been so you know, but you also like, hey, that
college gott he wants to win like you do. He's
putting everything you can into it, and he wants to
have an opinion, so you have to listen to it
for a little bit. But I'd give a little bit
of time. That's like, hey, we all have our roles.
(21:30):
Roll right now is to go find us players for
twenty twenty six, right, and our coach's role right now
is to get us to win, right, you know, to
win right now.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Buck.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
We never did that. We never did that book. No,
we were a supportive I'm glad we're not playing our
talented young piers. Let's keep playing those veterans that know
what to do and think, you know what, let's just
keep losing games. This is so much fun out here
on the road as I'm away from my family.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
It was funny.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
It was funny some of those players. They complain about
our players that we drafted maybe a couple of years ago, Like, hey, wait,
we're you standing on the table for that offensive.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
It changes, the wind can change quick. Pumped to have
Luke back with us. Luke, how are you doing, man?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Oh, I'm doing good.
Speaker 8 (22:12):
It's uh. I'm looking at my window right now and
the leaves are changing. It's it's getting cooler. It's a
little brisk in the morning, and this is always my
favorite time of the year playing because stuff starts to
really matter now trade deadline's gone and you start playing
meaningful games in November December, and that's this time of
the year is what I think about playing football.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So it was this is my my favorite time of
the season. Real quick, were you were? You no sleeves,
no matter what.
Speaker 8 (22:38):
See I was, But I didn't like wearing sleeves and games.
I always felt like I was constricted, constricted running And.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Did you ever regret it? Though? Like that, like it
was just so stinking cold. You're like, wait, lea sweatshirt up,
sweatpants at practice? I was no skin showing.
Speaker 8 (22:56):
But what I don't what people don't get, is you
get on the field and you don't know you're only
on there for a couple of minutes at a time,
and then once you go to the sideline, the benches
are heated. I can put a jacket on, I can
put a hat on. There's heaters everywhere, and then you
get on the field for I don't know a couple
of minutes and then you're back off. So it's really
not that bad.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
We've talked a lot about you know, the right questions
when you get to know players, like what's a good
question to elicit a good answer? And I was talking
to one of our buddies of the show, Ken Coleman's
written a bunch of leadership books and I ran it
to him in Nashville, and I said, Hey, I'm always
looking for new questions, like give me, give me a
question you can ask a player.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
You can learn something interesting about him. And he said,
ask him what pisses him off. And he's like, Okay,
I've never asked that. So I'm going to let you
be the first person as a player, Luke, what pissed
you off?
Speaker 8 (23:41):
Effort and lack of attention to detail and not thinking
that details are important. And you saw that a lot
in the run game. Hey, where are your eyes? Where
are you closing to? Are you the end man on
the line of scrimmage? Make sure we squeeze all the
way to the hip of that end man on the line.
Because you're the edge player, your inside foot had to
be up because if you're outside foots up your clothes
(24:03):
making a play, you know, going away from the line
of scrimmage. All these little things that seemed dumb. Where
my pad level is as a linebacker, and I'm taking
on a guard? Where are my hands? Where are my feet?
Where are my eyes? How much of this offensive linement
am I taking on? All that stuff is so easy
to do in practice, especially in walkthroughs. Let's not make
it close, because when you go into a game, you're
(24:25):
going to fall back to however you practice, and these
little small details have a huge have a huge role
in whether you have success or whether you fail inside games.
So I think to me, lack of detail and lack
of urgency and walk through periods was a big deal
for me.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
That's great.
Speaker 6 (24:41):
I mean I can see it because I'm ready to
I can feel the intensity how he would be just
it's not me.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
To me, it's not We can all do that. It's easy.
You can feel it. Yeah, I can feel that. And
it shows the other thing too. It shows is and
walk through specifically, like it shows how important this is
to you. The way you go through walk through, the
way you have your pad, level that your pad, you
know where my hands are, where my feet are, where
(25:09):
my eyes are, the urgency at which you put your
hands on somebody in walk through.
Speaker 8 (25:13):
All that says to me is hey, number one, do
I know what I'm doing. And then number two, how
important is it to me and how important it is
to you? Shows how important you feel like our job
of playing defense is to the rest of your team.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
I never asked you this before, but we in baseball
we used to have player managers, and then in the
NBA you have Bill Russell who was playing and then managing.
I'm not asking, I'm not saying, could player be a
head coach in the NFL. I don't think that's possible.
But if you've got someone and I'm just talking about
someone with your background, experience, intellect, where you got to
(25:48):
at the peak of your powers, you think you could
have called the defense at that point.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Absolutely. Why.
Speaker 8 (25:55):
I think that there's way too much going on as
a player that you're worrying about that you don't get overall,
like like trends in the game, who's in, who's out?
There's too much information?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Is it so? Is it? Is it eleven personnel and
not all eleven personnel is the same? Right?
Speaker 8 (26:11):
Is it twenty one run game? Is it two fullbacks
or is it two running backs? And then right after
the play you got to think about all that stuff.
I think there's way too much going on in the game.
Maybe some guys can I certainly couldn't think about. You
play a snap, you wake, you get up off the ground.
You're trying to figure out I'm looking at the jumbo
tron usually trying to figure out, Hey, what happened the
(26:31):
previous play in the run game where that ball hit?
All right, Hey, maybe I need to be a little
bit more shifted over on that guard in the B gap.
And you don't have time to think about like, all right,
it's third and seven. They're bringing in, you know, eleven personnel,
and their eleven personnel has like we were playing the Saints,
was it mark Ingram or is it Darren Sproles? All right, boom,
right now, it's eleven personnel with these guys, there's too
(26:53):
much going on.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
How many people for those that don't know, how many
people like headset wise, you don't get to hear them,
but how many people were involved in that process in
terms of identifying the personnel that was on the field.
I'm sure you have somebody who knows tendencies based off
the numbers they have in front of them, Like how
many people are collaborating before that call gets into your headset?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I mean, you got guys op in the booth that
can see everything super easily, right, So that's kind of
how we started In Carolina. McDermott was in the booth,
so he had his crew up there that could see it.
So they probably relate to mcdee, Hey, this is a personnel.
Speaker 8 (27:25):
McDermott makes a call down to the field to hold them,
how holk them, gives me the call in my headset.
That was kind of our process, I believe, and I
think that's that allows everybody to do their specific job, right.
McDermott when he was calling defenses for us, he's up there,
he's looking at situation, feel down in distance. Then he
(27:47):
gets the plate, then he gets the personnel grouping. All right,
boom out of this personnel grouping.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
This is what we like. All right, what do we boom?
Speaker 4 (27:53):
We like this?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Let me give it to how al gives it to me.
That's the fault. And it all happens.
Speaker 8 (27:59):
I mean, it's a forty second, you guys, A forty
second playoff cut shuts off at my headset shuts off
at fifteen.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
So that stuff all happens in like ten seconds.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Last one, I'm gonna let you run here the uh,
you know, the scouting side of things, which I know
you're fully capable of doing a lot of times when
you're looking at young players. It's okay, what is he now?
Strengths and weaknesses? Where does he need to get better
to get where you want to go? So I'm gonna
ask you to give me a scouter report on your dog.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Oh my god, you know.
Speaker 8 (28:25):
What the scout on your report on her is? She
is the best dog. But she she likes being in
the mix. She's mad that you guys didn't give her
a camera to come talk to her. She microphone, she
wants in on it. Maybe she was a little bit
disappointed that I said Buffalo and not Carolina.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
So I think she's she's trying to voice her opinions
and now she where is she?
Speaker 8 (28:47):
She's she's laying down, facing away from me with this
little bit of silence and not looking at me.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
So, oh yeah, I gotta go give her. I gotta
go get you coachable. She coaches over a t r
e A t oh.
Speaker 8 (28:58):
I don't say that, but she's, uh, she's very coachable.
She's a great dog, but you know what, she just
wants to be in the mix. And she felt like
she felt like she needed a microphone today.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah, the t R e a t by the way,
that's just the helmet sticker. That's all. That's performance, you
know exactly, dog helmets. She's gonna show back right up
over here. Get her to come on. If I wanted
to hear me say treat? Could she hear me say treat?
Oh she just got up. She's walking over here now.
Oh yeah yeah, oh yeah, you need a treat? Got her?
(29:32):
You see your you see your perk up? Yeah, got treat.
Speaker 9 (29:38):
He's gonna run, She's gonna run to the laundry room
where we keep them on. Better be waiting for one
from you and one from Bucky mcclell. Yeah, it's fantastic. Hey,
I've been joy talking to both of you. Luke, I
appreciate that.
Speaker 8 (29:49):
Yeah, she's not so interesting or she's already laughing.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Hey, dude, you are the absolute best. You always carve
out time for us and we appreciate you, man, absolutely,
Thanks guys, all right, that's gonna do it for us
a little best of episode. I hope you guys enjoyed
those conversations. Three of our favorites, and of course you
can count on those guys being on the shows going
forward as we head towards twenty twenty six as well.
(30:14):
We appreciate you guys, appreciate you listening and following support
in this podcast, and we'll see you next time right
here on booth the Sticks
And now Move the Sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What's up, everybody.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Welcome to Move the Sticks DJ here and excited for
you guys to hear this episode we have here. It's
going to be a little bit of a best of
here as we look back at some great conversations we've
been able to have. One of the things that Bucky
and I love about this podcast is the opportunity to
talk with some guys really interested in terms of their viewpoint,
their philosophy, their stories, their history. And we've had some
(00:31):
great ones over the years. We've been doing this over
a decade actually, but I wanted to pay play three
of them for you. Here three of our favorites from
this year with Andrew Luck, who is a general manager
at Stanford as he's taken over his Alma Maters football program.
Tom to LESCo has been a general manager of the
National Football League for over a decade with the Chargers
and the Raiders, as well as a ton of experience
(00:53):
with the cults around Peyton Manning in those years. Just
one of the really really bright guys. I've always enjoyed
listening to Tom and and count them as a true
friend and then another friend and Luke Keickley, one of
the greatest linebackers of all time, is someone that we've
had a chance to visit with over the years and
always just this fascinating guy, really really football intelligent, just
(01:13):
intelligent period. So I want to play those conversations for
a little best of here our conversations with Andrew Luck,
Tom Felesco and Luke Keigley. All right, buck excited to
have with us a player we both scouted back in
our NFL days and someone who has had an incredible
journey and is now the general manager for the Stanford Cardinal.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Andrew Luck joined us. Andrew, how you doing, man.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I'm doing really well. To be clear, this is not
my jersey behind me. It's John Brody. I've get dogged on.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
No, no, no, I.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Have my plunk at jersey next to it. I tried
to that the wire was wrong and I was like, da,
I gave up. So I put John Brody back up.
Speaker 6 (01:49):
Because you went in to approprimate that was one and
eleven before you got that. You've seen it go from
the bottom to where they had the pinnacle of Stanford football.
How do you take what you learned as a player,
you replicate that as a gentleman.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
There are some timeless principles in our sport, right, and
there's probably some timeless principles organizationally across industries. And like
the world has changed. We are paying players and we're
excited about it.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Right.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
The transfer portal is different than when I was in school.
One Coach Harbaugh's having a leader of the program and
had deep, deep conviction that we were going to win,
and what might be perceived as challenges, we're not going
to be excuses, right at all.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Right, Coach Harba said, well, shoot, if we can.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Only recruit forty or fifty guys a year because of
the academic threshold, let's go find the best forty or
fifty and make sure our yield is higher than everybody else.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Right in high school. Creit good.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
That's profoundly affecting how I do this too. Let's build
a foundation of like hard work, respecting each other, holding
really really really high standards because we have high expectations.
We have very high expectations, and those have to be
rooted in very high standards and really high care. Right,
And so are those coaching staffs. Coach Arball, Coach Shaw afterwards.
(03:00):
They did it authentically. Coach Harball was authentically himself. Coach
Shaw was authentically himself. I learned to be the best quarterback.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I could be.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
I had to be me right, including walking into a
locker room where Peyton Manning had been the previous quarterback.
Is if I if I was trying to be Peyton
a version you know, Andrew's version of Peyton, that it
would fail quickly, right, fail quickly, And I was It
was given license by Dwight Freeney on day one walking
in that locker room said Andrew, you need to be
the best you you can be. No one else this
(03:28):
team just needs you. That that meant a whole lot
as a young rookie quarterback coming into you know, into
that space, so you know, one, bringing all of me
as a leader to this thing. Uh two, Going and
finding the unicorns around the country at high school that
that have the grades and and ball out right, that
are willing to put the work in and willing to
(03:50):
learn and play great football. Building a culture of brotherhood
where our young men are playing for each other and
you and you mentioned it too, Frank. Frank has done
an unbelievable job this year. He saved my bacon man
coming in for eight months and doing this thing and
the progress that our team has made is unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I'm proud of him. I'm proud of our staff.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I get proud watching these guys every Saturday go out
and lay it on the line.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
And it's a wonderful thing to be a part of.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
You touched on two things I wanted to get some
further thought on because you talked about the foundation and
build out foundation. I think of your studies and your
background in design, architectural design, like how that plays into
it and what does this foundation need to be to
go forward? And the second thing is we've talked a
lot and just talking to our buddies and GM roles
in all different sports. The phrase that we've heard more
(04:39):
than any other the last twenty four months has been
care factor. We can talk about it's easy, the scouting,
the talent, really, it is what it is. But trying
to find guys with a very high care factor is
the challenge. How do you go about doing that when
you're visiting with seventeen eighteen year old kids?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
Oh man, it is That's what a great question. It
is the question think I think of care factor at
two different levels, like one at the individual, do I like,
do I love football?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Do I? And do I love learning?
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Right?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Because that do I?
Speaker 4 (05:11):
And have I seen enough evidence that I can get
better at football?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Right? Like?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
You want kids who are just obsessed about getting better
at football because it's that gets to become an addictive feeling.
And that's a virtuous fly cycle, right, Like like a flywheel,
I'm like, yeah, better, better, better, better. Frank Reich has
done that for our guys. They've gotten better that coaching
our staff like in combect and then also for our staff, right,
are we getting better? Am I getting better?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
In this job? Is there?
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Is there a level of intrinsic motivation often tied with
love of something?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Right?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Hard to want to get better at something if you
if you just sort of like it a little bit,
or or like really don't like it. But sussing that out,
I'm not sure I have a formula yet, you know
some of it. Some of it I think is gut
instinct and feel right. Maybe that's the art of recruiting
or personnel. I think someone it's the right line of
questioning and and and oftentimes it's you gotta find character references.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Right. You gotta find people who who who.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Will spill some story that has some nugget of truth
and put enough of those nuggets of truth together to
find a picture, and then you take a leap of faith.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
But I also I also believe a care factor of
how are we as a program taking care of our
people right and giving everyone the best chance to have
their care fractor grow as they as there. It's not
a static thing, right, is not a static right? Like
we have to be a place that you know, I
mentioned high expectations and standards and high care. Like high
(06:37):
standards and high care. That's the right combination. It gets
old if there's really high standards and low care.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Right. It also gets old it's kid gloves if it's
real high care and low standards. Right.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
And there's a there's a quote from one of my mentors,
Admiral Sandy Winfel, an amazing man. He's got a great
book on leadership called Sailing Up. When he was I'm
going to say the words rang a chief of staff
for Cole and Pale at some point and Colon turned
him in a car. He tells this great story. We
turned him in a car and said sandy morale has
never been improved by lowering standards.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Used to be like, so, how do we have a
system of high care and high standards and find the
people that will thrive in that system. And look, I'm
like nine months in this job. I like the data
is not there, but like we got I should say,
the big, big, big data. I know we're on the
right path. I have a conviction that this is the
right path. But it's there's a there's faith in this
(07:30):
right you know. I'd love to be sitting here five
years from I was saying, yeah, we just won for
national team. But that's that's That's how I'm approaching both
the the like sussing out care factor and and you
gotta hold up, you're into the bargain too. You got
to help young men tend that care factor and grow it.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I was thinking back to the first time I went
on campus at Stanford and where we used to park
at Scouts. We'd have to walk across them. I remember
the first time Buck, we've talked about this. I remember
parking the first time, and it was a fall day.
It wasn't an early visit. It was a little bit
later in the fall and I remember walking across and
I swear I thought it was I was on a
sound stage or something, because the leaves just kind of
(08:11):
started falling. I looked to my left and there's the
women's soccer team practicing. I'm sure there's probably six Olympians there.
Then I heard the ping of the of the baseball bat,
and I'm sure there's probably a couple first round picks
on that field as they were kicking some VP walk
by the pool where there's a high diver, and I'm
sure I don't know which country, but there's an Olympian
that's just jumping off the high dive, and then I
walked in the building. I remember after that day, Andrew
(08:32):
I called my parents and I said, if you would
have taken me to Stanford in eighth grade, I would
have got better grades in high school. I didn't know
a place like this existed. So how important is it
for you when you're recruiting these guys to get them
on campus and not just taking your word for it,
but come experience it.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Oh it's huge. I mean I don't mean this in
a snobby or snody way, but it's a special place.
As you laid out and like I'll finish your story.
And then you walked into a football building and there's
David Dicastro and Kobe in myself Zach Ertz who is
like down the fountain of youth and just an like
stillballing at a level that you know, these tight ends
(09:09):
playing forever is unbelievable, man. And yeah, we think it's
a special place. You know, I met my wife here.
She was a gymnast right represent the Czech Republic. We
all live in a dorm freshman year with a random roommate. Like,
that's where else do you get that in life?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Right?
Speaker 4 (09:23):
And we need kids to embrace that. It's I'm still
friends with my dormmate Dennis Carmen and are from Turkey's
an amazing dude who lives in the Bay Area, right, Like,
it's an amazing place. And you mentioned the sports. You're
also going by a you know, an academic building where
we're we're unbelievable breakthroughs in whatever mission it is are happening.
It's it's it's a place that rewards the pursuit of excellent,
(09:45):
not just attaining excellence, but the pursuit you know, so
getting getting young men in their families on campus is
core to our recruiting strategy because we think it sells itself.
And then my job really is to make sure that
the football is serious, right, like serious, like what I
like aspects of what I had old school principles, some
new school methods, you know, but there are some timeless
(10:07):
truth But because I came to Stanford, you know, I'm
in too. Maybe more succinctly answer the first question. I
came to Stanford because it was serious about football and
it was a place where I did not want to
take myself too seriously. But our guys are embracing the
seriousness of football. My year, I think we had we
had neca Ogl Mike go first overall in the WNBA. Amazing,
(10:29):
you know, it's this amazing hoopster from Houston as well.
I went first overall in the NFL draft. Mark a
Pell was either drafted as a pitcher, drafted like first
or top five. It was like, like, I go to
the Olympics. My wife's a producer for gymnastics on NBC.
I went to the Paris Olympics.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
What a treat.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Like, there's fifty nine Stanford affiliated athletes. My classmates, you know,
Catarina Stephanidie pole vault or grease gold medalist at Real.
We were in the training room together, like that's awesome.
Watched Eric Shoji when a bron met bronze medal, and
volleyball who was freshman door mats with my teammates, like
we're boys. We partied together. You know, It's an amazing
(11:08):
group to be a part of. And I love that
our football team is part of a broader fabric and
culture of let's go figure out how to be excellent.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Philip Rivers, nobody knows him as well as you do, Tom,
all the years you spent together with the Chargers watching
him play. I've tried to caution people that have just
laughed this whole thing off, versus saying, hey, I know.
I think it was like they're two touchdown underdogs at Seattle.
I know Seattle's defense and whether or not I'm like, look,
the second week is another thing, and see how his
(11:42):
body can recover.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
But maybe I'm in the minority.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I'm like, for one week, I think Philip Rivers might
be able to screen his.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Way to a close game up there in Seattle.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Tell you what I was with Philip for seven years.
Shane Stikeen for eight I should have known better that's
gonna happen. I mean, I was doing a live radio
interview Monday morning before any of this broke. I was
on with with Doug Gottlieb and Fox Sports Radio and
we're talking about Daniel Jones's injury and he asked me,
He's like, hey, do you think the Colts would reach
out to Philip Rivers? And I gave him one of
(12:12):
these I'm like, he's been not a football for five years.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
That's not gonna have So that I talked about Riley
Leonard for a while.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
I thought Rolly Leonard played played really well last week,
So talk about Riley Leonard. And then I think a
couple hours later it kind of comes out that Philip
was going to work out for the Colts, and I'm like, oh,
I'm supposed to be the expert.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Analyst and I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
But I'll tell you what, from a fan standpoint, is fascinating.
When I put my GM hat on, I'm like, you know,
it's not just he's playing at forty four.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
It said he hasn't played in five years.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
So to me, like the time Brady comparison is not
a comparison because time Brady was active the whole time.
So you know, I was just concerned about, you know,
the movement skill. It's concerned about you know, reaction times.
If you're off just a millisecond. In the NFL, it's
a big difference. Concerned about soft tissue injury or worse.
But then I watched the press conference yesterday that Philip
did and had me convinced. I'm like, hell, why not?
(13:10):
And that's the way Philip is Like. I'm watching that
and I'm thinking all the reasons why you maybe you
shouldn't do it. And then I'm like, he's got me, like, yeah,
let's go. Let' see that's how he plays. Don't worry
about the results, just go off there and let it rip.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Buck. That's this guy. That's must see TV. I can't wait.
I cannot wait to watch it either. Man. I'm so
I'm so scared for him.
Speaker 7 (13:27):
Like just in terms of everybody who's ever played anything
always believed that they still got a little left, and
I'm just worried.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Five years away from the game, Philip talked about I'm
not at my playing weight. I'm about twenty miles here.
Speaker 5 (13:39):
I just I'm just fearful of him having to move
around and something bad happened. Even though I love the Maxie,
I love his gun slinging ways all of that, I'm
just really concerned about him being able to survive a
game and then go into the next We're gonna.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Have to play another one.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Actually, Like like DJ said, it's not just this game
is the recovery for the next one, the next one,
next one for that. It's just it's gonna be tired.
But I can't wait to watch it. I really can't.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I was joking with somebody this morning that, you know,
back in the day, we used to have you know,
you have your practice, your two hour practice, and we
had a ten minute screen period. I said, this is
going to be a ten two hour screen period with
ten minutes of other football sprinkled in there. Everything you
hit that ball out quick.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
I mean their offensive line is very good. They have
Jonathan Taylor who's going to get a ton of work,
which is a good thing. They've got Josh Downs, they
could they can run some screens with Michael Pittman is there,
and they've got Tyler Warren. I mean, he has all
the pieces around him. If this is gonna work that
that can help him. So yeah, I can't wait to
watch this against Seattle.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Oh man, this fuck. We haven't seen anything like this man.
And by the way, that the Tom Brady thing island.
Phillip's not a big I don't think he's a big
avocado toast. I don't think he's you know, doing all
that stuff. I don't think he's sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber.
Doesn't really sound like that's a River's style.
Speaker 7 (14:57):
I do have a question Tom, like with an older
because one thing that Philip has he has experience and expertise,
because he's seen everything that they could throw their way.
Is it possible that the one advantage that he gives
the Colts is their ability to improve their running game
because he can check in and out things that Riley
Leonard hasn't seen. Philip being able to dominate the line
of scrimmage in terms of getting them in the right
(15:19):
call could be.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, that's a great point. Just getting in. You know,
second and twelve is not good. Uh, second and six
is good, you know, so just getting it, you know,
like you said, out of a bad play he gets
he gets the wrong look makes a change, you know.
Picks up four or five yards on first down.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, there's no doubt.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I mean, there's no more coach on the field than
what Philip is going to be literally and figurative is a.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Coach, yes what I mean.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And with him and Shane, I mean they're running North
Turner's offense and basically they can finish each other's sentence
as it becomes exs and knows. So it, you know,
would be really fun to be on the headsets listen
to Shane. You know, now, now Philip can't talk back,
and the head set you can only hear me.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
You can mike him up. He's got to be miked
up for this. That would be a.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Tremendous viewing just to listen to that throughout the game
of those two kind of going through the game plan,
you know, in real time.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
I would imagine with the you know, all these teams
having their own media company basically in house, that they
hopefully document this thing all the way.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Hopefully, but I can tell you from experience, he doesn't
like being miked up. And most quarterbacks, most quarterbacks don't
want to do it, don't like it.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
They all have to do it once a year. So
maybe you know he's got four games left. You have
to do it for one of these four, the first one.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Oh gosh, I hope they do it, man, I want
to I want to hear it so bad. Is there
a position where you thought more patients was required than
others where it's just the learning curve there is so great.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Well, certainly quarterback. I used to think it was receiver,
but there's been more receivers that have come in early
and contributed early. It used to be as a receiver
you come in there's just a big adjustment period. There's
so many things going on pre snap that they have
to know and then post snap as far adjusting routes.
But I think, honestly, I think with the advent of
(17:13):
so much seven at seven in high school in the summertime,
and collegers throw the ball so much more than they
used to a long time ago, that that transitions is
a little easier now. But certainly quarterback, and then to me,
the second would be offensive line. There's just so many
techniques and tools of the trade that you learn that
just takes time and takes development over a number of years.
So those are probably the two positions. Defense a little
(17:35):
bit easier to probably transition. You know, you can always
fall back to seatball, get ball, but I say offensive
line and quarterback.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
That was always when I think DJ, what was your
what was your challenging position? As an even it was oh,
in terms of challenging position for me, it was always safety.
Speaker 7 (17:49):
Oh okay, yeah, it was always hard, just because like
old line was always hard for me.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
It's safety has gotten I'll tell you what the batting
average on safety. Don't or you this wul a be a
good question for Tom of how you how you watch it?
Because used to be when we were all grown up,
we were all taught, hey, four games, you need four
games and make an evaluation on the guys. You got
to watch four games. And I can watch four games.
You can watch four different games. We have totally wildly
different opinions, but with the ability to cut up the
tape now as efficiently as we can, like safeties for
(18:15):
me personally, like I've seen what was what I had
a lower batting average previously, since I've been able to
watch all the cutups, so to see an entire season
of key plays all the way through. I don't do
that from any positions, but safety position I do, and
I found out I'd rather watch an entire season of
key plays, you know, basically a hit tape versus you know,
(18:37):
randomly selecting four games for a safety where he might
be in the parking lot, you know, not seeing the
accent entire.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
That's the thing as safety is is, Yeah, there's a
lot of snaps where they're just not involved.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
So I agree with you, like.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
You need a lot of games for a safety. They
really feel good about your evaluation, probably more so than
any other position.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
But the fun thing with safety is is I mean
you have to.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Be able to tackle and play the run game almost
like a linebacker, but then you have to be able
to cover like a corner.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
So there are obviously the good ones. They're very hard
to find.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Is it takes a really wide skill set, But it
does take a lot of games at that position, just because, yeah,
there's a lot of times it's a too deep safety.
He's just backpedal and nothing's going on in front of him.
You may not have a run support responsibility. So as
far as a moni game tape, it takes a lot.
And then with the offensive line, I was the same
when I first started scouting the offensive line to me
was a bit foreign. And when I was with the Colts,
(19:29):
I sat down with Howard Mudd, who's one of the
best that's they've done it as far as offensive line coaches,
and I learned so much from him, not just sitting
down with him, but just spending time with him over
the years when I was in pro scouting at that point,
and just learning all the things that he would look
for in that position. Now I feel like I love
doing offensive lineman. I love doing centers. Centers to me,
I really, I mean sounds kind of kind of nerdish
(19:51):
for football wise. I love watching centers play, the levers,
the quickness, the pulling, the movement. So most of the
stuff I learned on offensive line play came from Howard.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
You know, I've long been fascinated by the questions that,
you know, what are the right questions to get to
some interesting answers to at least learn something about somebody.
So the one that we've been using lately is one
that I picked up for my buddy, Kim Coleman is
in the leadership space, Thomas. We Askedkeikley this. He gave
us a great answer. But I'll ask you this as
someone who's been a general manager. What ticked you off,
whether it was with staff.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Or you know, the job in general.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Oh my gosh, probably on a daily basis. You just
got to work through it. It's our job to have
answers rather than just always coming up with, you know,
complaints or problems, which you tend to get like the
one thing with it's hard being a college scout where
you're on the road, you're looking at college players.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
For the following year.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yet you're watching your team play every Sunday, and then
you tend to have a lot of opinions on what
your team should be doing right. You know, you're spending
Saturday usually watching the game on TV somewhere and you
call all your director, you call a GM, Hey, how
can we're not playing so and so?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Hey, how can we're warning the ball on third time
right here?
Speaker 1 (21:06):
And it would get hey, look trying to explain, Hey, look,
you're not here every day. You don't know the game plan,
you don't know who's practicing well, you don't know who's
been so you know, but you also like, hey, that
college gott he wants to win like you do. He's
putting everything you can into it, and he wants to
have an opinion, so you have to listen to it
for a little bit. But I'd give a little bit
of time. That's like, hey, we all have our roles.
(21:30):
Roll right now is to go find us players for
twenty twenty six, right, and our coach's role right now
is to get us to win, right, you know, to
win right now.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Buck.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
We never did that. We never did that book. No,
we were a supportive I'm glad we're not playing our
talented young piers. Let's keep playing those veterans that know
what to do and think, you know what, let's just
keep losing games. This is so much fun out here
on the road as I'm away from my family.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
It was funny.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
It was funny some of those players. They complain about
our players that we drafted maybe a couple of years ago, Like, hey, wait,
we're you standing on the table for that offensive.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
It changes, the wind can change quick. Pumped to have
Luke back with us. Luke, how are you doing, man?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Oh, I'm doing good.
Speaker 8 (22:12):
It's uh. I'm looking at my window right now and
the leaves are changing. It's it's getting cooler. It's a
little brisk in the morning, and this is always my
favorite time of the year playing because stuff starts to
really matter now trade deadline's gone and you start playing
meaningful games in November December, and that's this time of
the year is what I think about playing football.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So it was this is my my favorite time of
the season. Real quick, were you were? You no sleeves,
no matter what.
Speaker 8 (22:38):
See I was, But I didn't like wearing sleeves and games.
I always felt like I was constricted, constricted running And.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Did you ever regret it? Though? Like that, like it
was just so stinking cold. You're like, wait, lea sweatshirt up,
sweatpants at practice? I was no skin showing.
Speaker 8 (22:56):
But what I don't what people don't get, is you
get on the field and you don't know you're only
on there for a couple of minutes at a time,
and then once you go to the sideline, the benches
are heated. I can put a jacket on, I can
put a hat on. There's heaters everywhere, and then you
get on the field for I don't know a couple
of minutes and then you're back off. So it's really
not that bad.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
We've talked a lot about you know, the right questions
when you get to know players, like what's a good
question to elicit a good answer? And I was talking
to one of our buddies of the show, Ken Coleman's
written a bunch of leadership books and I ran it
to him in Nashville, and I said, Hey, I'm always
looking for new questions, like give me, give me a
question you can ask a player.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
You can learn something interesting about him. And he said,
ask him what pisses him off. And he's like, Okay,
I've never asked that. So I'm going to let you
be the first person as a player, Luke, what pissed
you off?
Speaker 8 (23:41):
Effort and lack of attention to detail and not thinking
that details are important. And you saw that a lot
in the run game. Hey, where are your eyes? Where
are you closing to? Are you the end man on
the line of scrimmage? Make sure we squeeze all the
way to the hip of that end man on the line.
Because you're the edge player, your inside foot had to
be up because if you're outside foots up your clothes
(24:03):
making a play, you know, going away from the line
of scrimmage. All these little things that seemed dumb. Where
my pad level is as a linebacker, and I'm taking
on a guard? Where are my hands? Where are my feet?
Where are my eyes? How much of this offensive linement
am I taking on? All that stuff is so easy
to do in practice, especially in walkthroughs. Let's not make
it close, because when you go into a game, you're
(24:25):
going to fall back to however you practice, and these
little small details have a huge have a huge role
in whether you have success or whether you fail inside games.
So I think to me, lack of detail and lack
of urgency and walk through periods was a big deal
for me.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
That's great.
Speaker 6 (24:41):
I mean I can see it because I'm ready to
I can feel the intensity how he would be just
it's not me.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
To me, it's not We can all do that. It's easy.
You can feel it. Yeah, I can feel that. And
it shows the other thing too. It shows is and
walk through specifically, like it shows how important this is
to you. The way you go through walk through, the
way you have your pad, level that your pad, you
know where my hands are, where my feet are, where
(25:09):
my eyes are, the urgency at which you put your
hands on somebody in walk through.
Speaker 8 (25:13):
All that says to me is hey, number one, do
I know what I'm doing. And then number two, how
important is it to me and how important it is
to you? Shows how important you feel like our job
of playing defense is to the rest of your team.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
I never asked you this before, but we in baseball
we used to have player managers, and then in the
NBA you have Bill Russell who was playing and then managing.
I'm not asking, I'm not saying, could player be a
head coach in the NFL. I don't think that's possible.
But if you've got someone and I'm just talking about
someone with your background, experience, intellect, where you got to
(25:48):
at the peak of your powers, you think you could
have called the defense at that point.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Absolutely. Why.
Speaker 8 (25:55):
I think that there's way too much going on as
a player that you're worrying about that you don't get overall,
like like trends in the game, who's in, who's out?
There's too much information?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Is it so? Is it? Is it eleven personnel and
not all eleven personnel is the same? Right?
Speaker 8 (26:11):
Is it twenty one run game? Is it two fullbacks
or is it two running backs? And then right after
the play you got to think about all that stuff.
I think there's way too much going on in the game.
Maybe some guys can I certainly couldn't think about. You
play a snap, you wake, you get up off the ground.
You're trying to figure out I'm looking at the jumbo
tron usually trying to figure out, Hey, what happened the
(26:31):
previous play in the run game where that ball hit?
All right, Hey, maybe I need to be a little
bit more shifted over on that guard in the B gap.
And you don't have time to think about like, all right,
it's third and seven. They're bringing in, you know, eleven personnel,
and their eleven personnel has like we were playing the Saints,
was it mark Ingram or is it Darren Sproles? All right, boom,
right now, it's eleven personnel with these guys, there's too
(26:53):
much going on.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
How many people for those that don't know, how many
people like headset wise, you don't get to hear them,
but how many people were involved in that process in
terms of identifying the personnel that was on the field.
I'm sure you have somebody who knows tendencies based off
the numbers they have in front of them, Like how
many people are collaborating before that call gets into your headset?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I mean, you got guys op in the booth that
can see everything super easily, right, So that's kind of
how we started In Carolina. McDermott was in the booth,
so he had his crew up there that could see it.
So they probably relate to mcdee, Hey, this is a personnel.
Speaker 8 (27:25):
McDermott makes a call down to the field to hold them,
how holk them, gives me the call in my headset.
That was kind of our process, I believe, and I
think that's that allows everybody to do their specific job, right.
McDermott when he was calling defenses for us, he's up there,
he's looking at situation, feel down in distance. Then he
(27:47):
gets the plate, then he gets the personnel grouping. All right,
boom out of this personnel grouping.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
This is what we like. All right, what do we boom?
Speaker 4 (27:53):
We like this?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Let me give it to how al gives it to me.
That's the fault. And it all happens.
Speaker 8 (27:59):
I mean, it's a forty second, you guys, A forty
second playoff cut shuts off at my headset shuts off
at fifteen.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
So that stuff all happens in like ten seconds.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Last one, I'm gonna let you run here the uh,
you know, the scouting side of things, which I know
you're fully capable of doing a lot of times when
you're looking at young players. It's okay, what is he now?
Strengths and weaknesses? Where does he need to get better
to get where you want to go? So I'm gonna
ask you to give me a scouter report on your dog.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Oh my god, you know.
Speaker 8 (28:25):
What the scout on your report on her is? She
is the best dog. But she she likes being in
the mix. She's mad that you guys didn't give her
a camera to come talk to her. She microphone, she
wants in on it. Maybe she was a little bit
disappointed that I said Buffalo and not Carolina.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
So I think she's she's trying to voice her opinions
and now she where is she?
Speaker 8 (28:47):
She's she's laying down, facing away from me with this
little bit of silence and not looking at me.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
So, oh yeah, I gotta go give her. I gotta
go get you coachable. She coaches over a t r
e A t oh.
Speaker 8 (28:58):
I don't say that, but she's, uh, she's very coachable.
She's a great dog, but you know what, she just
wants to be in the mix. And she felt like
she felt like she needed a microphone today.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah, the t R e a t by the way,
that's just the helmet sticker. That's all. That's performance, you
know exactly, dog helmets. She's gonna show back right up
over here. Get her to come on. If I wanted
to hear me say treat? Could she hear me say treat?
Oh she just got up. She's walking over here now.
Oh yeah yeah, oh yeah, you need a treat? Got her?
(29:32):
You see your you see your perk up? Yeah, got treat.
Speaker 9 (29:38):
He's gonna run, She's gonna run to the laundry room
where we keep them on. Better be waiting for one
from you and one from Bucky mcclell. Yeah, it's fantastic. Hey,
I've been joy talking to both of you. Luke, I
appreciate that.
Speaker 8 (29:49):
Yeah, she's not so interesting or she's already laughing.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Hey, dude, you are the absolute best. You always carve
out time for us and we appreciate you, man, absolutely,
Thanks guys, all right, that's gonna do it for us
a little best of episode. I hope you guys enjoyed
those conversations. Three of our favorites, and of course you
can count on those guys being on the shows going
forward as we head towards twenty twenty six as well.
(30:14):
We appreciate you guys, appreciate you listening and following support
in this podcast, and we'll see you next time right
here on booth the Sticks
Hosts And Creators
Daniel Jeremiah
Bucky Brooks
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