May 11, 2026 • 36 mins
Bucky Brooks and Lance Zierlein collaborate on another edition of Move the Sticks. Reacting to the news of a "true competition" between Minnesota Vikings quarterbacks J.J. McCarthy and Kyler Murray, the MTS duo picks favorites in the battle. Then, LZ shares skepticism of the Los Angeles Chargers' draft class, one that he finds full of "exceptions." Lastly, Bucky shares a few of his favorite player-team fits, including Miami Dolphins LB Jacob Rodriguez, Dallas Cowboys S Caleb Downs and Pittsburgh Steelers QB Drew Allar.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
What's up?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to move the sticks. I am Bucky Brooks and
that is my partner over here, l Z. Lance airline
hanging and holding it down represent astound.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
What's going on? Lance? What's up? How were doing?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
How was a weekend?
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Buck Man? Weekend is good?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You know, it's always good when you can kind of
hang out, get away, listen. A shout out to all
the people that were able to celebrate with their moms
and significant others and that stuff and kind of do
it up. So hopefully the weekend was good for everybody
when it comes to giving gratitude to those who have
helped you along the way.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
LZ, what's told you where you want to go? Where
you want to start?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Well, I want to I want to start. So last week,
Well we'll get to this in the second. First, I
want to talk about quarterback situation JJ McCarthy, because the
game is won and lost by quarterbacks, right, And if
you've got a quarterback, you've got a long runway. If
you don't have a quarterback, you've got no runway. So
there's desperation versus we got somebody, and there are no
(01:06):
in betweens. It seems like.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Really no no in betweens at all.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Tom Telliersorrow just dropped a report over the weekend talked
about Kyler Murray and JJ McCarthy engaging in what is
called a legitimate quarterback competition. JAJ McCarthy first round pick
from a couple of years ago. Kyler Murray was recently
let go from the Arizona Cardinals. Former number one overall
pick makes his way to Minnesota to play for Kevin O'Connell.
(01:32):
And on the surface, they're talking about this being a
quarterback competition, how are you expecting this to play out
between the two?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well, I mean, one guy has learned to read defenses
over the years. One guy has gone through adversity. I mean,
they've both gone through adversity. But let's just face it,
it's hard for someone who's never finished a full year
and been the guy yet. I mean, he's still learning.
JJ mccarthym talking about JJ McCarthy's still learning. He's still
(02:01):
at that point of his career where it's still very
very early in his career and that missed first season
it could end up being something and when we look
back historically, where I hope it doesn't happen for him
like this, but it could be one of those things
that really set back his entire career. Now, you know,
it could just be he blossoms or blooms later later
(02:22):
on in his career. But we saw the carnage that's
taking place at Minnesota. I mean, GM gone, the head coach,
maybe on hot seat, maybe not. I think KOs is
a good coach, but so I don't know about hot
seat or not, but we do know that right off
the bat, the GM's gone, the head coach is still there,
and yet they bring in Kyler Murray. It kind of
(02:44):
tells you that they're really not they're really not sold
on JJ McCarthy and he didn't have a long runway
and that's unfortunate, but that's the way of the world
now when it comes to quarterbacks. And I just I
feel like what Kyler Murray has proven he can do
while while he still kind of had honestly Arizona, I
felt like in a purgatory, so to speak. Still he
knows how to play that position. There's things that he
(03:06):
knows how to do and plays that he can get
to in situations. He understands how to manage that. It
will be impossible to say the same thing for JJ
McCarthy because he simply doesn't have that experience. So I
would give a big advantage to I'd give a big
advantage of Kyler Murray in that battle. I don't see
any other way than to say Kyler Murray is a
big favorite.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
You know, so before we even squared him off, and
you do the tail of the tape, I'm curious, what
were your thoughts on JJ McCarthy when he was coming out.
I know I, amongst our crew, I was probably more
pro JJ McCarthy because I did see value in the
fact that he was twenty seven and one as a
start at Michigan. I felt like he did a great
job of managing that offense while also sprinkling in some
(03:49):
playmaking ability. And when you have a coach like Jim
Barbar selling him, man, he sold him at every.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Turn, as guys, that's the next guy.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
He talked about comparisons to Alex Smith and those things,
And so maybe I sipped a little too hard on
the kool aid coming out of Michigan when Jim Hartens
telling it, But I thought he would have the potential
to be an upper echelon starter in this league, a
guy that would play very similar to the way that
Alex Smith has played in this league.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Efficient effective kind of.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Distributing the ball to the playmakers, but needed a talented
supporting cast. And to be honest, look, I would have
to give him an incomplete grade. We haven't seen enough
of him to really determine if the inner can't play.
Given the fact that he didn't play his Rocky See
Them played a handful of games his sophomore season, and
now he is in the midst of a quarterback battle.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I don't know what to really say about j Jim McCarthy.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, this is what I said. This is my exact overview.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I said.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Enigmatic quarterback, lacking the measurables and splashtrows associated with early
round quarterbacks, but possessing elements that require more study and consideration.
He lacks sprain, thickness and a plus arm. He's fairly
poisoned a pocket but average as a pocket passer. His
ball placement in time he needed to improve to help
mitigate an average operation time due to his wind up.
McCarthy doesn't seek to play out a structure, but is
(05:11):
fairly consistent at playing making positive plays when it happens,
and ramps up his focus late in games and on
third downs, and then here's here's really what.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I think.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
He is confident and seems to have the ability to
take slights and digest it as competitive fuel. He should
continue to improve as a passer, but he fails to
stand out in many of the areas that tend to
be predictive of top level success in the NFL. Yeah,
I really had a problem with where he is drafted personally,
just because I felt like he had an increase. It's weird,
(05:43):
but I felt like he had an incomplete grade coming
out of college. I didn't think he saw enough. I
didn't think we saw enough out of him in college.
I thought he needed another year and he was in
a run heavy offense that was you know that that's
kind of friendly for quarterbacks. I felt like he was
incomplete headed into college and now here we are, and
you just gave him an I inc and I would
agree with you, he's incomplete in the pros.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
You know, it's really interesting, right, So we talked about
the twenty seven and one twenty eight starts. In college,
he played certainly on a big stage, but he did
a lot of handing off and kind of playing in
the shadows of what was a really good football team
from top to bottom offense, defense, special teams.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
They were really locked and loaded.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
And then if you go back the previous year when
he was at Michigan, they were overwhelmed by TCU and
the playoffs, and some of that was him not being
able to kind of take his game up a notch
when they needed it to happen in the semi finals
with JJ McCarthy. To me, I do believe the comparison
to Alex Smith is a really valid one given what
(06:46):
Alex Smith kind of had the face coming in. I
think Alex Smith was maybe twenty twenty one when he
entered the league coming.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Out of Utah.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
He was a bit of a dual threat, but he
was a guy that needed to see it before the
ball could come out because he didn't fully trust that
he could throw his guys open. JJ McCarthy is a
little like that, kind of a little late because he
wants it to be wide open as opposed to what
they call wide opening the pros, and so he's had
to adapt and adjust to that. And Kyler Murray, I
(07:16):
think we're just talking about talent for talent, telent to tape.
I think Kayler Murray is going to dominate those categories
when it comes to arm, talent, athleticism explosively, his big
play ability and those things. Certainly, JJ McCarthy has more
of a prototypical frame that you look for. But there's
no disputing what Kyler Murray was when he entered the league.
(07:37):
Former baseball player, drafted in the first round, talented, duel threat, quarterback,
cosm trophy, won all those things, two time Pro Bowler,
Offensive Rookie of the Year. I mean, he has a
lot of things on the resume that makes it go
heavy in his direction when we talk about a quarterback battle.
The thing that you wonder how o koc unlocked the
(07:58):
new and improved or let's just say the new version
of Caler Murray given the knee issues and candy still
run around like he used to early in his career.
And then how quickly does Kyler Murray settle in to
the new surroundings, meaning the playmakers around him, the way
that Kevin o' see Kevin O'Connor calls the game, how
they set him up for success with the opening scripts.
(08:19):
How long does it take him to settle in and
kind of show people why he was the number one
overall pick. That is a huge question.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah, you know, I'm looking at the I'm looking at
the stats from his final season. JJ McCarthy and Blake
Korm had two hundred and fifty eight rush attempts at
twenty seven touchdowns. That led the NCAA in rush attempts
two fifty eight. Donovan Edwards behind him had one hundred
and nineteen, So you had, you know, between just those
(08:46):
two running backs alone, you had three hundred and seventy
seven rush attempts. That's a ton so the running game.
Obviously they won a national championship. But I don't want
to sell Jay, you know, I do want to paint
a complete picture for JJ McCarthy. Why why the Minnesota
Vikings liked him from twenty one to twenty two to
(09:08):
twenty three. There's big substantial jumps in completion percentage fifty
seven point six sixty four point six final season seventy
two point three, which which led FBS, his yards per
attempt eight seven, eight, four, nine to zero. You know,
his touchdowns interception five to two, twenty two to five,
twenty two to four. So what you're seeing is improving
(09:31):
consistency from an accuracy standpoint, you see a good yards
per attempt, which goes hand in hand with a good
running game because you can hit play action out of that.
And then his touchdowns interceptions good number. So he took
care of the football, I understand. And there were some
leadership stuff that you know in some competitiveness that I
know Minnesota bought into. So I don't want to say
(09:51):
that pick was out of the blue. I just felt
like based on what I saw, and as I said
in my draft profile, I didn't personally. I'm going to
reiterate I said he should continue to improve as a pastor,
but he fails to stand out in many of the
areas that tend to be predictive of top level success
in the NFL. The buck You've done this a long time.
(10:12):
It's really hard to pinpoint what is predictive of NFL's
success because many times it's not going to be physical markers.
Many times it's more mental, and it's more poise, and
it's and it's things that you don't that you aren't
going to see based on the physical traits. But I
(10:33):
do think there are certain things that you can get
to on tape where you do see flashes of something
that feels predictive of a future successful starting quarterback. And
I think that JJ McCarthy would have really benefited from
one more year because it would have been a year
(10:54):
without It would have been a year frankly without Jim Harbaugh.
It was a tougher year for Michigan and which with
Shroon Moore that first year, So I think it would
have given JJ McCarthy some more adversity to work through,
because frankly, I don't think that would have been a
bad thing for him to have things get a little
bit tough for him in his last season.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, I mean, and you know that's the thing unfortunately,
like we can't go back and put the genie back
in the bottle, kind of have to take him where
he is. And he has own flashes, He's shown the
ability to make some plays. He just hasn't done enough.
And this really comes down to what does the team
say about him in terms of what do his teammates,
How does Justin Jefferson respond when JJ's on the field
(11:37):
versus when Colin Murray's on the field. What does it
look like from a production standpoint for the offense. And
they'll try and get this done joint practices in training camp,
some of the preseason games and those things. But it's hard, man,
It's hard figuring out a quarterback competition with a new guy,
completely new veteran, and a holdover who hasn't necessarily given
(11:58):
you enough but was expected to be the face of
the franchise. The one thing that we do know this
will be something that we would talk about the entire summer.
In the early part of the preseason, Let's go to
La and let's talk about the La Chargers. Simon, David
and Joku, the big time tight end, signs a one year,
eight million dollars deal per in Rappaport to join the Chargers.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
We remember David and Joku.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Coming out of college, first coming out of Miami making
it happen. It's had a solid run in Cleveland. But Lance,
this is one of the many moves that the Charges
have made over the course of the off season. And
before we logged on, we talked about their draft, and
so let's run through this draft, because this was a
draft that people have had a lot to say about
(12:45):
the direction in which the Chargers went when it came
to not only their first round pick, but the entire draft,
So I'm gonna read off the class and then I'm
gonna get your overall take on the Chargers. So when
I look at the draft, they took he message on
the first round out of Miami.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
J Slaughter was their second round pick center from Florida.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Brendon Thompson fast fast, fast, wide receiving from Misissippi State
was there picking the fourth round. Travis Burke office attacking
from Memphis Genesis Smith Arizona fourth round pick. He was
a safety. Nick Barnett defense attack from South Carolina goes
in the fifth round. Logan Taylor from Boston College in
(13:24):
offensive guard, and Alex Harkey from Oregon a guard. They
round out the class and thoughts initially when I read
off those names and you looking at roster.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, so I thought this at the time, and we
didn't get to this last week, so I want to
get to it now. First off, the jokeud deal, I
like it. He's twenty nine years old. He has missed
eleven games last two years. Injury is just part of
his profile right now. You worry about that being the case.
The yards per attempt have gone way down seven point
nine and eight point nine. Some of that a function
of the quarterback play in Cleveland obviously still had nine
(13:59):
to downs over the last two years total five and four.
So but I think that's a nice pickup, specifically, specifically
for a team like the Chargers. My problem with this
so I like that. The problem I have with the
Chargers is this draft is really this hasn't has nothing
to do with a consensus board or any of those conversations.
(14:21):
I'm looking at this and I see a lot of
I see a lot of exceptions being made, and I
always it always concerns me when you have a draft
with this many exceptions. And let me explain what I mean.
A Keen Mesador twenty five year old rookie. I'm a
big fan of a Keen Mesador twenty five year old rookie.
It is what it is. You may get five years,
(14:41):
you may get six, you might get into us a
second contract with Mesador. I just think he's a good
rusher who understands how to rush. He's got a deep
bag of tricks, and he can rush inside outside. He
is twenty five, though, but I feel like that fits
for what they need, because they need someone right now
who can help out and rush. And I don't think
there's a lot of growing that needs to happen with Mesidor.
(15:05):
But he's still a twenty five year old. So there's
one exception. You've just made an age exception for a
first round pick. Now we get to the second round,
Jake Slaughter. Jake has never had a rap at guard,
never played guard. Six' five three zho three at the. Combine,
now sometime you get a little lighter at the combine
to run, better so we'll see where he. Plays but
that's really lightweight for a, guard and he's never played.
(15:28):
Guard So i'm curious to see How Jake slaughter holds
up at. Guard he may end up back at center
at some, point so it may not be a big.
DEAL i thought second was early For. Slaughter to be
honest with, You i'm kind of low man on the
totem pole On. Slaughter so we'll see where he ends.
Up but never played. Guard so there's another. One going
from center to. Guard we see guard to. Center we
(15:50):
don't as often see center to. Guard so there's another.
Exception now we Go Brnan Thompson shade under five to.
Ten he's one hundred and sixty four. Buck we have
Seen Tank dell drafted who was who was about that.
Size he's dealt with a lot of. Injuries we have
seen two to two at well back in the past
(16:10):
as a first round Of Trevon austin way back in
the day with you, know coming out of out of
college also was an. Outlier so we do see more
outlier size whenever you have rare, speed And Brendan thompson
has rare. Speed but there's another outlier one hundred and
sixty four pound wide. RECEIVER i just. Saw i'm still
(16:32):
in the process of covering a wide receiver at about
one sixty four In Tank, dell who suffered three. Injuries
one a concussion where he just hit the ground with
his head falling. Forward no one even hit. Him concussion
out a few, games had a horrific or broke his
broke his leg when he was down near the goal
line trying to scoop out of safety at his leg
(16:53):
broken there and then shattered his knee in multiple. Places
so a concussion in two mar major injuries For Tank.
Dell and he's a small. Guy small guys tend to
get hurt More Brennan, thompson small. Guy there's exception number,
Three Travis, burke six foot nine offensive tackle WHO i
(17:14):
think is a better run blocking tackle than a pass protecting.
Tackle BUT i like the. Player it's just the six
to nine. GUYS a lot of times there is a
sixty seven is about as tall as you like him for,
tackles because once you get, taller you start to have some,
issues not only redirecting that high center of gravity when
guys make inside, moves but those benders around the. Edge but,
(17:36):
ooh it's tough to get hands on those guys that
can dip and run. Low and Then Genesis smith in
the fourth, round a terrible, TACKLER i mean legitimately, terrible
low effort tackler who is a great. Ballhawk he's a
terrific ball but IT'S i see five exceptions.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
THERE i see a.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Twenty five year old first. ROUNDER i see a guy
who's ever played guard moving to guard one hundred and
sixty four pounds wide, receiver a six foot nine, tackle
If i'm a little less concerned about, That and Then
Genesis smith and the fourth who has great ball skills
and instincts but is a really problematic. Tackler that is
(18:18):
a draft THAT i don't usually, see where you see
so many guys who have exceptions and concerns that, that
and they line them up on the same draft with
the first five. PICKS i don't usually see. THIS i
think this draft is going to be an interesting one
to follow because it's also the first year where you
Take Jim, harball who does things one way, offensively and
you Take mike, McDaniel who does things way differently.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Offensive, yeah it'd be interesting because they are definitely a
team THAT i won't say this is having an identity,
crisis but they certainly are trying to find. Themselves you
mentioned a Team messagor AND i actually like to. Pick
and the reason WHY i Like messador going to The
chargers is he gets a chance to Sit.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Khalil.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Mack and even though people talk about the age the
way THAT i kind of chalk it up in my,
head with those guys and being twenty five years, old
the average career is three and a half. Years so
if he gets through the end of the rookie, contract oh,
well they can make a decision at that point if
they want to keep. Them if they, do it's probably
gonna be on short, term short term. DEALS i love the.
ENERGY i think he's a perfect compliment as a. RUSHER
(19:21):
i think he played really well off Of Ruben. BAIN
i would expect him to do the same thing with The,
chargers not necessarily as the fastball or the number one
in the, rotation but, look a solid number two that's
gonna be able to find various plays and splash plays to.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Make i'm fine with.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
That And Jake slaughter is interesting because you talk about
the transition going from center to. Guard it's not, common,
Man you know, this AND i wonder if your dad did,
this like they always have told me that the, interview,
guys you better need to know how to learn play
all three right, guard left, guard, center because the more
you can do it increases your. Value and so maybe
(20:00):
has shown them and workouts that he's good enough to
move around and do some of the things that they're
going to, do because, remember the offense is going to.
Change run game may change a little bit With mike
McDaniel's coming, over and it may have some of That
San francisco forty nine ers, flavor more zone and less gap.
Scheme so we'll see how that plays out now when
(20:20):
we get into the fourth. Round Brendon thompson's the speech
so you're trying to find a way to generate more
explosive plays and look for him to be something in
the kicking.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Game you talked.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
About Genesis smith and the miss, tackles but another fourth
round pick that you open can develop someone in. There
had to sign off on those physicality concerns that you point, Out,
yeah because it's gonna be a big part of.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Who he is when he comes.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
In and then we think About Travis burke then to
come in some of the other linemen that they brought,
In Logan taylor And Alex. Tarki they are trying to
throw darts to see if they can quietly complete what
they have on the roster without having to really break
the bank down the line to maybe have to play for.
Depth for those things, open those guys can develop into
(21:02):
quality back.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Up keep your eyes On Alex. HARKEY i think that's
a sneaky good pick in the Sixth he's three hundred
and thirty some odd. Pounds he's nasty and, physical but
he also can really, move so in a weird, way
he's a Rare he's one of the rare prospects THAT
i think blends the mentality that you you you have
From Jim, hardball with the ability to move the way
(21:26):
that you're gonna need to with the outside, zone some
of the outside zone. Stuff so he played tackle At,
oregon but he IS i kind of always felt like
he was an under the radar. PROSPECT i think that's
a really good pick up by The chargers to find
a player with his, size athleticism and. Toughness you don't
always see that combination roll. Together and he's somebody THAT
(21:48):
i think is going to be a good fit. THERE
i want to you, know that's gonna that's really gonna
be a fun team to. WATCH i just had a
conversation about The chargers this. YEAR i mean this morning
on my radio show because my host is not my.
Host my producer Is justin Certified Justin herbert hater because
(22:09):
he's A Miami dolphins. Fan so WHAT i found out
is back in the, Day dolphins fans who were of
two of Versus herbert and then turned into a whole
civil war Between dolphins fans over the years on two
of The dolphins fans who didn't want to and, see
we blew. It we should have Had herbert versus kind
of the two Of truthers who point out rightfully so
(22:31):
That Justin herbert has not performed well at all in the.
Postseason so that is a team with kind of a
sneaky amount of of fire lit under, them and they're
either going to get burned by it or it's gonna
it's gonna cause them to have a really strong season this.
Year i'm they're legitimately one of the most intriguing teams
to watch this. YEAR i think Is Justin herbert And
(22:52):
harball and McDaniel combination and getting those two starting tackles
back this. Year they're a really team in my.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Opinion, no, no they're an interesting.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Team there always a team that will command some mentiones
because there's a lot of intrigue over At Justin. HERBERT
i like to call him the best it never, was
meaning he's been the best quarterback that we've talked about
that has never had a notable accomplishment in the. Postseason
so at some point he has to either live up
to the hype that we've kind of surrounded him by
and find a way to win these postseason, games or
(23:26):
we're gonna have to quit talking about him as if
he is knocking on the door of elite, regardless we'll
have more information at the end of twenty twenty six
to know whether to go forward in terms of touting
him as one of the. GREATS i want to quickly
transition SOMETHING i wrote, about but this will bring us
to what we want to talk, about which is The Dallas.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Cowboys.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
YEAH i wrote a Thing Lance tall ten perfect Player Team,
fits and the number one guy on the list Was
Caleb downs and you can see that article ON nfl dot.
COM i wrote it last weekend as part of My scouts.
Notebook you can check that. Out but Caitleb. DOWNS i
had number one in the list going to The Dallas
cowboys at.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Eleven they flip a pick.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Move up to get, him and in getting, them they
believe they really solidified their back in because they got
a high end player that is a great instinct of
aware player that can drop in the. Box he can
play anywhere in the, trangle whether it's in the, slot
whether it's at free or. Strong he can do all those,
things and he does it while also controlling the entire
(24:30):
year back. In to, me it was a no brainer
for The cowboys to make this pick when he was
sitting there close enough for them to move up and get.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
THEM I i'm glad you brought this, up because this
is exactly the DIRECTION i wanted to go with this.
Article i've got Some i'm, Gonna i'm, Gonna i'm gonna
cueue up guys that you put in, there and THEN
i want to get your thoughts in real time here
BECAUSE i love THESE i love these picks you. Make Jacob,
rodriguez tell me why you think second round or forty
third pick overall going to The. Dolphins tell me why
(24:59):
YOU i thought that was the perfect.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Fit Jeff afley's defense down AT maammi, man they want
to be A c ball fotball. Defense AND i don't
know if there's a more instinctive second level defender Than Jacob.
Rodriguez when you watch him on, tape AND i know
he surprised all of us with how he performed at the,
combine but, lance when you watch him, PLAY i wrote
in my, nose, man this dude plays much faster than his,
time much faster than he's gonna.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Test and then you look at, me it's, like oh,
no he tests will. Too and SO i just.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Think having an animal that can just see, it diagnose,
it go make plays it's gonna remind a lot of.
Guys AND i hate to say this because anytime you
make these comparison to gold jacket, guys it tends to go.
Awry but WHEN i looked At Zach thomas play in
the middle of that defense years, Ago jacob Right reguez
gives me some of that flavor in terms of being
(25:48):
able to just see, it get it and make.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
PLAYS i just think he's gonna be a fantastic player
in that.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
DEFENSE i, think you, know in college, football not having
great instincts and not diagnosing and processing it. Quickly if
you have really good, athleticism it really and you have good,
quickness you, know burst and, acceleration initial, acceleration especially, laterally
it doesn't really come back to haunt you as much
(26:13):
in college football because the talent across from you is
not going to be as. Good if you're a high
level you, know first first two day, pick we'll call
it two day. Pick once you get to the, pros
if you are a step slow to, process a, step
slow to, recognize a, step slow to, diagnose all the
speed and quickness in the, world it starts to not
(26:35):
matter as. Much because offensive linemen are climbing up on
you at different. Angles they got different levels of strength
when they get their hand on. You even if they
don't get two hands on, you even if they don't
square you, up there's a different level of. Strength and
so when you see players who instantly diagnose and are
flowing almost before the play even heads in a, direction
(26:56):
they already have a feel and instinct for where it's
going to. Go sometimes that's just a lot of tape
study and. Recognition those players tend to be good very.
Quickly Carson schwesschinger had, that and he had he was
a one year starter out OF ucla and he was
Defensive roomie of The. Year is a fifty to one long.
Shot Darius lennard filled up the stat sheets when he
(27:18):
was A South Carolina, state filled it up in the
pros as, well and he wasn't the fastest, player but
he played. Fast and that's what you're talking about with
with With jacob is that he plays. Fast and if
you can play, fast you're forty times and it's forty
times way faster than we. Thought but if you play
fast with your eyes and you play fast with your,
reactions the forty time becomes irrelevant because you're you stay
(27:41):
ahead of the blocks all the. TIME i WANT i
want to move to a few more of these Because
i'm fascinated by some of. Them number Six Bud. Clark
these are guys we don't talk about as, much but
are good football. Players Bud, clark total, ballhawk a little
under the little. Undersize he's had some injury. Issues tell
me why you Love Bud clark With.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
SEATTLE i think right, Now, lance we're at a time
where the league is transitioning TO i won't say positionless,
ball but we're seeing more dbs on the, field and
you have to have dbs that can carry different skills.
Sets so In Bud, clark the star position is what
everyone on the collegiate level talks.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
About that slot.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Defender sometimes he's a, safety sometimes he's a, corner but
he's a little bit of a do it all playmaker
at that. Position, Well Bud clark has tremendous ball skills and.
Instincts he's a ball hawk obviously in the passing, game
but he has some nastiness to him where you can
see him come off with. Listen you can see him
do a bunch of different things that will enhance what
The seahawks already. Do AND i look at how The
(28:45):
seahawks got down last, year AND i look At nick
And Mary worry.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
And what they did With Devon, witherspoon and how they like.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
To have these corners that have transitioned to safety because
it gives them so much flexibility and versatility and how
to with. Teams he falls in line with, that and
so to, me not only is the player a really good,
player but he is a player with the traits and
the skills to really thrive in the scheme that they play.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
In here's my last one for you for the for
the end of the, episode and then we'll come back
and do it all over again in a few. Days number,
Ten Drew, Aller this is fascinating. Number he's a third round,
pick number seventy six, overall AND i pulled him up
because of what you wrote up On Drew. ALLER i
think that. BACKGROUND i don't know if he's ever going
(29:35):
to get it all. TOGETHER i JUST i just have
so many doubts after watching him on. Tape but you've
got a very what you wrote up on this and
your backdrop in terms of isolating him as a. FIT
i think is really.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Fascinating, yeah, Now Drew, RATHER i think people have to.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Understand and one of the THINGS i know people hate
this because they hate the, stars. Right they hate when
the recruiting analysts give these guys stars and they, like
they don't even know it never makes. It but you
got to understand, that, man this dude was a high
end quarterback coming out of high school and he had
to battle through some adversity At Penn state and all those.
Things so you have a five star, recruit and normally
(30:13):
you think about it like we think about the. Draft
when you have five star, recruit you have these natural
talents and traits where people are projecting you to be a.
Pro so he already has the, Size he certainly has
the arm talent to do. It so you like that
part of. It but THEN i think About mike McCarthy
and WHAT i do know about him because he was
a quarterback coach At Kansas city WHEN i was playing,
there so we've always had a really good. Relationship and
(30:34):
when he went To Green bay AND i would go
make visits up there and he would talk about the quarterback.
Position he was really big on the quarterback school because
he learned In Kansas, city and like With Joe, montana, like,
hey we want to put these guys in the off,
season put them through a very rigorous training module that
then will allow them to maximize their. Talents they did
it In Green bay for years With Aaron, rodgers and
(30:55):
you look in his, past you See Aaron brooks that
developed on his watch and eventually became A prod caliber.
Player you think About Aaron, rodgers who, look he didn't
pick him number, one but the next year he shows.
Up And Aaron rodgers sits for a couple more years
Behind Brett, fahr but then he becomes the player that
is eventually a four TIME.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Mvp he makes his way To dallas.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
And Dak prescott plays the best ball of his career
Under mike. McCarthy So mike McCarthy certainly knows how to
take a very talented quarterback and push him closer to his.
Potential so And Drew aller a third round, pick someone
that is a developmental. Prospect if you didn't get a
chance to see the clips over the, weekend they saw
him working out and the little things that they're doing
(31:35):
for him as a quarterback to slow him, down and
the start to give him those. FUNDAMENTALS i just think
with the third round, pick with someone with those, tools
why not take a throw a dart at? It because
if you hit on, him, man you're talking about being
ahead of the, curve not only talent, wise but in
terms of what you can do with your. TEAM i
Like mike McCarthy being able to work with him, because to,
(31:57):
Me Drew allen is the perfect ball of clay for
him to mold into being not only he starting, quarterback
but maybe a franchise quarterback In.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Pittsburgh, yeah that's.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
A great, backdrop a great backdrop on why and that's
going all the way. BACK i just found it very.
FASCINATING i appreciate you getting into that because he is
a guy who was considered one of the top quarterbacks
coming into the draft when we. Entered certainly after his
season in twenty twenty, four.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
People were talking about him in that playoff room when
they lose to note their, Name hell you come, out
he might be the second or third.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
QUARTERBACK i were, like that grew.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Out that's the, conversation AND i think some people remember
that and when you think About, pittsburgh they're, like, look
we were talking about this guy really, high like he
had an. Injury it didn't go, well but the talent
is still there and they are certainly a believer in their.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Coach and because they believe so.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Heavily And mike McCarthy and his developmental, SKILLS i just
think That Drew alert is a nice fit and a
third round pick if it doesn't work. Out so what
you know What i'm. Saying it isn't like you use
a top ten pick like this is a perfect dart
to throw at someone who's extremely. Talented AND i, think
as we're, learning because you brought this up first, round third,
(33:13):
round no second, round either you love them enough to
take him in the first round or you take him
in the third, round and you do. It and WHEN
i think About Drew, allen AND i also like the
fact That Carson beck win The Arizona this is when
you throw those darts because those guys are talented enough
to intrigue, you but not quite enough to make you
have the convention to, say, hey he's definitely going to
(33:33):
be our franchise. Quarterback but to, me it was the
value and the talent that made.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
It the third round is where you get good backups,
Too Davis mill's a third round, like you get good
backups in the third. Round Kirk cousins when he was
drafted WAS i, THINK i want to say early fourth
maybe is When kirk came.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Out he was around.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
There so this is where you make a legitimate backup
quarterback draft. Pick but when you're in the third you
still it's feasible that you can still maybe grow them
into being future. Starters but if, not you still have
the fallback of, hey they're. Backups once you get in the,
fourth you're looking at backs for. Sure third round still
gives you the ability to potentially move them, up but
(34:11):
you don't have the same financial hit second. ROUNDERS i
feel like second rounders might as well be first rounders
because you're expecting them Like Tyler schuck to come in
and they need to play, well and they can get
coaches in trouble. Too you get drafted in the. Second
so that's WHY i think so few quarterbacks are drafted
in the second, round and you see most of them
higher percentage in the first than. Third but then first
(34:32):
is where, okay we're, stamping we're gonna put a stamp on.
This the second is we're gonna put a, stamp but
we got a little bit of we don't want to
do it too. High we got other. Positions we may
be looking at the third round is, okay we noise
at least a, backup but maybe there's something else here
because the traits and then once you get to the
fourth round and, beyond it's like hot. Luck it, is you, know,
(34:56):
backup and maybe we'll get, something maybe they'll. Develop but
this idea that Tom brady's you know whoa Well Tom.
Brady Tom brady's one of. One there's not guys that
are coming from a sixth round becoming full time. Starters
it's an extremely Rare, YEAH i, Know, KIRK i Know,
Kurt Kurt warner Got Kurt warner was bagging. Groceries we
all know who the outliers.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Were but, Yeah Dak prescott was a fourth round. Pick
it is rare to do. It BUT i will say
this as we're wrapping this. Up WHEN i was In
Green bay And Ron wolf was there And Mike hogan was,
there and you have to Understand mike McCarthy also spent
time In San, francisco and this was.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
A Bill walsh. Thing, yeah every other year you take
a young.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Quarterback you developed, them because the quarterback is not only
the most important, position but it's the biggest trade chip
that you can. Acquire if you can develop a young
quarterback and put them on the field and someone falls
in love with the, flashes it brings back a significant
hall and that is worthy of the time invested in
(35:57):
the quarterback as you're trying to develop.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Them let me see if you have some, man my, Man,
LANCE i love, It lance like this was this was? Fun.
MAN i LIKE i like doing all.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
THIS i like doing the deep dive in the, draft
AND i like as we're getting closer to OTA's starting mini,
camps the official mini camps with teams and those, things,
look maybe we're gonna do deep dives and talk about these,
players talk about these, fits and continue to talk about
how these teams have constructed the rosters to give them
the best chance to have a chance of success going.
(36:27):
Forward next, Time, lance maybe by the time we're on
we might have scheduled release and have some things to
talk about and stick until.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Then I'm bucky brought To. Lancy this move. Sticks whichever
What's up?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to move the sticks. I am Bucky Brooks and
that is my partner over here, l Z. Lance airline
hanging and holding it down represent astound.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
What's going on? Lance? What's up? How were doing?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
How was a weekend?
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Buck Man? Weekend is good?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You know, it's always good when you can kind of
hang out, get away, listen. A shout out to all
the people that were able to celebrate with their moms
and significant others and that stuff and kind of do
it up. So hopefully the weekend was good for everybody
when it comes to giving gratitude to those who have
helped you along the way.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
LZ, what's told you where you want to go? Where
you want to start?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Well, I want to I want to start. So last week,
Well we'll get to this in the second. First, I
want to talk about quarterback situation JJ McCarthy, because the
game is won and lost by quarterbacks, right, And if
you've got a quarterback, you've got a long runway. If
you don't have a quarterback, you've got no runway. So
there's desperation versus we got somebody, and there are no
(01:06):
in betweens. It seems like.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Really no no in betweens at all.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Tom Telliersorrow just dropped a report over the weekend talked
about Kyler Murray and JJ McCarthy engaging in what is
called a legitimate quarterback competition. JAJ McCarthy first round pick
from a couple of years ago. Kyler Murray was recently
let go from the Arizona Cardinals. Former number one overall
pick makes his way to Minnesota to play for Kevin O'Connell.
(01:32):
And on the surface, they're talking about this being a
quarterback competition, how are you expecting this to play out
between the two?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well, I mean, one guy has learned to read defenses
over the years. One guy has gone through adversity. I mean,
they've both gone through adversity. But let's just face it,
it's hard for someone who's never finished a full year
and been the guy yet. I mean, he's still learning.
JJ mccarthym talking about JJ McCarthy's still learning. He's still
(02:01):
at that point of his career where it's still very
very early in his career and that missed first season
it could end up being something and when we look
back historically, where I hope it doesn't happen for him
like this, but it could be one of those things
that really set back his entire career. Now, you know,
it could just be he blossoms or blooms later later
(02:22):
on in his career. But we saw the carnage that's
taking place at Minnesota. I mean, GM gone, the head coach,
maybe on hot seat, maybe not. I think KOs is
a good coach, but so I don't know about hot
seat or not, but we do know that right off
the bat, the GM's gone, the head coach is still there,
and yet they bring in Kyler Murray. It kind of
(02:44):
tells you that they're really not they're really not sold
on JJ McCarthy and he didn't have a long runway
and that's unfortunate, but that's the way of the world
now when it comes to quarterbacks. And I just I
feel like what Kyler Murray has proven he can do
while while he still kind of had honestly Arizona, I
felt like in a purgatory, so to speak. Still he
knows how to play that position. There's things that he
(03:06):
knows how to do and plays that he can get
to in situations. He understands how to manage that. It
will be impossible to say the same thing for JJ
McCarthy because he simply doesn't have that experience. So I
would give a big advantage to I'd give a big
advantage of Kyler Murray in that battle. I don't see
any other way than to say Kyler Murray is a
big favorite.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
You know, so before we even squared him off, and
you do the tail of the tape, I'm curious, what
were your thoughts on JJ McCarthy when he was coming out.
I know I, amongst our crew, I was probably more
pro JJ McCarthy because I did see value in the
fact that he was twenty seven and one as a
start at Michigan. I felt like he did a great
job of managing that offense while also sprinkling in some
(03:49):
playmaking ability. And when you have a coach like Jim
Barbar selling him, man, he sold him at every.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Turn, as guys, that's the next guy.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
He talked about comparisons to Alex Smith and those things,
And so maybe I sipped a little too hard on
the kool aid coming out of Michigan when Jim Hartens
telling it, But I thought he would have the potential
to be an upper echelon starter in this league, a
guy that would play very similar to the way that
Alex Smith has played in this league.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Efficient effective kind of.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Distributing the ball to the playmakers, but needed a talented
supporting cast. And to be honest, look, I would have
to give him an incomplete grade. We haven't seen enough
of him to really determine if the inner can't play.
Given the fact that he didn't play his Rocky See
Them played a handful of games his sophomore season, and
now he is in the midst of a quarterback battle.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I don't know what to really say about j Jim McCarthy.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, this is what I said. This is my exact overview.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I said.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Enigmatic quarterback, lacking the measurables and splashtrows associated with early
round quarterbacks, but possessing elements that require more study and consideration.
He lacks sprain, thickness and a plus arm. He's fairly
poisoned a pocket but average as a pocket passer. His
ball placement in time he needed to improve to help
mitigate an average operation time due to his wind up.
McCarthy doesn't seek to play out a structure, but is
(05:11):
fairly consistent at playing making positive plays when it happens,
and ramps up his focus late in games and on
third downs, and then here's here's really what.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I think.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
He is confident and seems to have the ability to
take slights and digest it as competitive fuel. He should
continue to improve as a passer, but he fails to
stand out in many of the areas that tend to
be predictive of top level success in the NFL. Yeah,
I really had a problem with where he is drafted personally,
just because I felt like he had an increase. It's weird,
(05:43):
but I felt like he had an incomplete grade coming
out of college. I didn't think he saw enough. I
didn't think we saw enough out of him in college.
I thought he needed another year and he was in
a run heavy offense that was you know that that's
kind of friendly for quarterbacks. I felt like he was
incomplete headed into college and now here we are, and
you just gave him an I inc and I would
agree with you, he's incomplete in the pros.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
You know, it's really interesting, right, So we talked about
the twenty seven and one twenty eight starts. In college,
he played certainly on a big stage, but he did
a lot of handing off and kind of playing in
the shadows of what was a really good football team
from top to bottom offense, defense, special teams.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
They were really locked and loaded.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
And then if you go back the previous year when
he was at Michigan, they were overwhelmed by TCU and
the playoffs, and some of that was him not being
able to kind of take his game up a notch
when they needed it to happen in the semi finals
with JJ McCarthy. To me, I do believe the comparison
to Alex Smith is a really valid one given what
(06:46):
Alex Smith kind of had the face coming in. I
think Alex Smith was maybe twenty twenty one when he
entered the league coming.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Out of Utah.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
He was a bit of a dual threat, but he
was a guy that needed to see it before the
ball could come out because he didn't fully trust that
he could throw his guys open. JJ McCarthy is a
little like that, kind of a little late because he
wants it to be wide open as opposed to what
they call wide opening the pros, and so he's had
to adapt and adjust to that. And Kyler Murray, I
(07:16):
think we're just talking about talent for talent, telent to tape.
I think Kayler Murray is going to dominate those categories
when it comes to arm, talent, athleticism explosively, his big
play ability and those things. Certainly, JJ McCarthy has more
of a prototypical frame that you look for. But there's
no disputing what Kyler Murray was when he entered the league.
(07:37):
Former baseball player, drafted in the first round, talented, duel threat, quarterback,
cosm trophy, won all those things, two time Pro Bowler,
Offensive Rookie of the Year. I mean, he has a
lot of things on the resume that makes it go
heavy in his direction when we talk about a quarterback battle.
The thing that you wonder how o koc unlocked the
(07:58):
new and improved or let's just say the new version
of Caler Murray given the knee issues and candy still
run around like he used to early in his career.
And then how quickly does Kyler Murray settle in to
the new surroundings, meaning the playmakers around him, the way
that Kevin o' see Kevin O'Connor calls the game, how
they set him up for success with the opening scripts.
(08:19):
How long does it take him to settle in and
kind of show people why he was the number one
overall pick. That is a huge question.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah, you know, I'm looking at the I'm looking at
the stats from his final season. JJ McCarthy and Blake
Korm had two hundred and fifty eight rush attempts at
twenty seven touchdowns. That led the NCAA in rush attempts
two fifty eight. Donovan Edwards behind him had one hundred
and nineteen, So you had, you know, between just those
(08:46):
two running backs alone, you had three hundred and seventy
seven rush attempts. That's a ton so the running game.
Obviously they won a national championship. But I don't want
to sell Jay, you know, I do want to paint
a complete picture for JJ McCarthy. Why why the Minnesota
Vikings liked him from twenty one to twenty two to
(09:08):
twenty three. There's big substantial jumps in completion percentage fifty
seven point six sixty four point six final season seventy
two point three, which which led FBS, his yards per
attempt eight seven, eight, four, nine to zero. You know,
his touchdowns interception five to two, twenty two to five,
twenty two to four. So what you're seeing is improving
(09:31):
consistency from an accuracy standpoint, you see a good yards
per attempt, which goes hand in hand with a good
running game because you can hit play action out of that.
And then his touchdowns interceptions good number. So he took
care of the football, I understand. And there were some
leadership stuff that you know in some competitiveness that I
know Minnesota bought into. So I don't want to say
(09:51):
that pick was out of the blue. I just felt
like based on what I saw, and as I said
in my draft profile, I didn't personally. I'm going to
reiterate I said he should continue to improve as a pastor,
but he fails to stand out in many of the
areas that tend to be predictive of top level success
in the NFL. The buck You've done this a long time.
(10:12):
It's really hard to pinpoint what is predictive of NFL's
success because many times it's not going to be physical markers.
Many times it's more mental, and it's more poise, and
it's and it's things that you don't that you aren't
going to see based on the physical traits. But I
(10:33):
do think there are certain things that you can get
to on tape where you do see flashes of something
that feels predictive of a future successful starting quarterback. And
I think that JJ McCarthy would have really benefited from
one more year because it would have been a year
(10:54):
without It would have been a year frankly without Jim Harbaugh.
It was a tougher year for Michigan and which with
Shroon Moore that first year, So I think it would
have given JJ McCarthy some more adversity to work through,
because frankly, I don't think that would have been a
bad thing for him to have things get a little
bit tough for him in his last season.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, I mean, and you know that's the thing unfortunately,
like we can't go back and put the genie back
in the bottle, kind of have to take him where
he is. And he has own flashes, He's shown the
ability to make some plays. He just hasn't done enough.
And this really comes down to what does the team
say about him in terms of what do his teammates,
How does Justin Jefferson respond when JJ's on the field
(11:37):
versus when Colin Murray's on the field. What does it
look like from a production standpoint for the offense. And
they'll try and get this done joint practices in training camp,
some of the preseason games and those things. But it's hard, man,
It's hard figuring out a quarterback competition with a new guy,
completely new veteran, and a holdover who hasn't necessarily given
(11:58):
you enough but was expected to be the face of
the franchise. The one thing that we do know this
will be something that we would talk about the entire summer.
In the early part of the preseason, Let's go to
La and let's talk about the La Chargers. Simon, David
and Joku, the big time tight end, signs a one year,
eight million dollars deal per in Rappaport to join the Chargers.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
We remember David and Joku.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Coming out of college, first coming out of Miami making
it happen. It's had a solid run in Cleveland. But Lance,
this is one of the many moves that the Charges
have made over the course of the off season. And
before we logged on, we talked about their draft, and
so let's run through this draft, because this was a
draft that people have had a lot to say about
(12:45):
the direction in which the Chargers went when it came
to not only their first round pick, but the entire draft,
So I'm gonna read off the class and then I'm
gonna get your overall take on the Chargers. So when
I look at the draft, they took he message on
the first round out of Miami.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
J Slaughter was their second round pick center from Florida.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Brendon Thompson fast fast, fast, wide receiving from Misissippi State
was there picking the fourth round. Travis Burke office attacking
from Memphis Genesis Smith Arizona fourth round pick. He was
a safety. Nick Barnett defense attack from South Carolina goes
in the fifth round. Logan Taylor from Boston College in
(13:24):
offensive guard, and Alex Harkey from Oregon a guard. They
round out the class and thoughts initially when I read
off those names and you looking at roster.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, so I thought this at the time, and we
didn't get to this last week, so I want to
get to it now. First off, the jokeud deal, I
like it. He's twenty nine years old. He has missed
eleven games last two years. Injury is just part of
his profile right now. You worry about that being the case.
The yards per attempt have gone way down seven point
nine and eight point nine. Some of that a function
of the quarterback play in Cleveland obviously still had nine
(13:59):
to downs over the last two years total five and four.
So but I think that's a nice pickup, specifically, specifically
for a team like the Chargers. My problem with this
so I like that. The problem I have with the
Chargers is this draft is really this hasn't has nothing
to do with a consensus board or any of those conversations.
(14:21):
I'm looking at this and I see a lot of
I see a lot of exceptions being made, and I
always it always concerns me when you have a draft
with this many exceptions. And let me explain what I mean.
A Keen Mesador twenty five year old rookie. I'm a
big fan of a Keen Mesador twenty five year old rookie.
It is what it is. You may get five years,
(14:41):
you may get six, you might get into us a
second contract with Mesador. I just think he's a good
rusher who understands how to rush. He's got a deep
bag of tricks, and he can rush inside outside. He
is twenty five, though, but I feel like that fits
for what they need, because they need someone right now
who can help out and rush. And I don't think
there's a lot of growing that needs to happen with Mesidor.
(15:05):
But he's still a twenty five year old. So there's
one exception. You've just made an age exception for a
first round pick. Now we get to the second round,
Jake Slaughter. Jake has never had a rap at guard,
never played guard. Six' five three zho three at the. Combine,
now sometime you get a little lighter at the combine
to run, better so we'll see where he. Plays but
that's really lightweight for a, guard and he's never played.
(15:28):
Guard So i'm curious to see How Jake slaughter holds
up at. Guard he may end up back at center
at some, point so it may not be a big.
DEAL i thought second was early For. Slaughter to be
honest with, You i'm kind of low man on the
totem pole On. Slaughter so we'll see where he ends.
Up but never played. Guard so there's another. One going
from center to. Guard we see guard to. Center we
(15:50):
don't as often see center to. Guard so there's another.
Exception now we Go Brnan Thompson shade under five to.
Ten he's one hundred and sixty four. Buck we have
Seen Tank dell drafted who was who was about that.
Size he's dealt with a lot of. Injuries we have
seen two to two at well back in the past
(16:10):
as a first round Of Trevon austin way back in
the day with you, know coming out of out of
college also was an. Outlier so we do see more
outlier size whenever you have rare, speed And Brendan thompson
has rare. Speed but there's another outlier one hundred and
sixty four pound wide. RECEIVER i just. Saw i'm still
(16:32):
in the process of covering a wide receiver at about
one sixty four In Tank, dell who suffered three. Injuries
one a concussion where he just hit the ground with
his head falling. Forward no one even hit. Him concussion
out a few, games had a horrific or broke his
broke his leg when he was down near the goal
line trying to scoop out of safety at his leg
(16:53):
broken there and then shattered his knee in multiple. Places
so a concussion in two mar major injuries For Tank.
Dell and he's a small. Guy small guys tend to
get hurt More Brennan, thompson small. Guy there's exception number,
Three Travis, burke six foot nine offensive tackle WHO i
(17:14):
think is a better run blocking tackle than a pass protecting.
Tackle BUT i like the. Player it's just the six
to nine. GUYS a lot of times there is a
sixty seven is about as tall as you like him for,
tackles because once you get, taller you start to have some,
issues not only redirecting that high center of gravity when
guys make inside, moves but those benders around the. Edge but,
(17:36):
ooh it's tough to get hands on those guys that
can dip and run. Low and Then Genesis smith in
the fourth, round a terrible, TACKLER i mean legitimately, terrible
low effort tackler who is a great. Ballhawk he's a
terrific ball but IT'S i see five exceptions.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
THERE i see a.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Twenty five year old first. ROUNDER i see a guy
who's ever played guard moving to guard one hundred and
sixty four pounds wide, receiver a six foot nine, tackle
If i'm a little less concerned about, That and Then
Genesis smith and the fourth who has great ball skills
and instincts but is a really problematic. Tackler that is
(18:18):
a draft THAT i don't usually, see where you see
so many guys who have exceptions and concerns that, that
and they line them up on the same draft with
the first five. PICKS i don't usually see. THIS i
think this draft is going to be an interesting one
to follow because it's also the first year where you
Take Jim, harball who does things one way, offensively and
you Take mike, McDaniel who does things way differently.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Offensive, yeah it'd be interesting because they are definitely a
team THAT i won't say this is having an identity,
crisis but they certainly are trying to find. Themselves you
mentioned a Team messagor AND i actually like to. Pick
and the reason WHY i Like messador going to The
chargers is he gets a chance to Sit.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Khalil.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Mack and even though people talk about the age the
way THAT i kind of chalk it up in my,
head with those guys and being twenty five years, old
the average career is three and a half. Years so
if he gets through the end of the rookie, contract oh,
well they can make a decision at that point if
they want to keep. Them if they, do it's probably
gonna be on short, term short term. DEALS i love the.
ENERGY i think he's a perfect compliment as a. RUSHER
(19:21):
i think he played really well off Of Ruben. BAIN
i would expect him to do the same thing with The,
chargers not necessarily as the fastball or the number one
in the, rotation but, look a solid number two that's
gonna be able to find various plays and splash plays to.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Make i'm fine with.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
That And Jake slaughter is interesting because you talk about
the transition going from center to. Guard it's not, common,
Man you know, this AND i wonder if your dad did,
this like they always have told me that the, interview,
guys you better need to know how to learn play
all three right, guard left, guard, center because the more
you can do it increases your. Value and so maybe
(20:00):
has shown them and workouts that he's good enough to
move around and do some of the things that they're
going to, do because, remember the offense is going to.
Change run game may change a little bit With mike
McDaniel's coming, over and it may have some of That
San francisco forty nine ers, flavor more zone and less gap.
Scheme so we'll see how that plays out now when
(20:20):
we get into the fourth. Round Brendon thompson's the speech
so you're trying to find a way to generate more
explosive plays and look for him to be something in
the kicking.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Game you talked.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
About Genesis smith and the miss, tackles but another fourth
round pick that you open can develop someone in. There
had to sign off on those physicality concerns that you point, Out,
yeah because it's gonna be a big part of.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Who he is when he comes.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
In and then we think About Travis burke then to
come in some of the other linemen that they brought,
In Logan taylor And Alex. Tarki they are trying to
throw darts to see if they can quietly complete what
they have on the roster without having to really break
the bank down the line to maybe have to play for.
Depth for those things, open those guys can develop into
(21:02):
quality back.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Up keep your eyes On Alex. HARKEY i think that's
a sneaky good pick in the Sixth he's three hundred
and thirty some odd. Pounds he's nasty and, physical but
he also can really, move so in a weird, way
he's a Rare he's one of the rare prospects THAT
i think blends the mentality that you you you have
From Jim, hardball with the ability to move the way
(21:26):
that you're gonna need to with the outside, zone some
of the outside zone. Stuff so he played tackle At,
oregon but he IS i kind of always felt like
he was an under the radar. PROSPECT i think that's
a really good pick up by The chargers to find
a player with his, size athleticism and. Toughness you don't
always see that combination roll. Together and he's somebody THAT
(21:48):
i think is going to be a good fit. THERE
i want to you, know that's gonna that's really gonna
be a fun team to. WATCH i just had a
conversation about The chargers this. YEAR i mean this morning
on my radio show because my host is not my.
Host my producer Is justin Certified Justin herbert hater because
(22:09):
he's A Miami dolphins. Fan so WHAT i found out
is back in the, Day dolphins fans who were of
two of Versus herbert and then turned into a whole
civil war Between dolphins fans over the years on two
of The dolphins fans who didn't want to and, see
we blew. It we should have Had herbert versus kind
of the two Of truthers who point out rightfully so
(22:31):
That Justin herbert has not performed well at all in the.
Postseason so that is a team with kind of a
sneaky amount of of fire lit under, them and they're
either going to get burned by it or it's gonna
it's gonna cause them to have a really strong season this.
Year i'm they're legitimately one of the most intriguing teams
to watch this. YEAR i think Is Justin herbert And
(22:52):
harball and McDaniel combination and getting those two starting tackles
back this. Year they're a really team in my.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Opinion, no, no they're an interesting.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Team there always a team that will command some mentiones
because there's a lot of intrigue over At Justin. HERBERT
i like to call him the best it never, was
meaning he's been the best quarterback that we've talked about
that has never had a notable accomplishment in the. Postseason
so at some point he has to either live up
to the hype that we've kind of surrounded him by
and find a way to win these postseason, games or
(23:26):
we're gonna have to quit talking about him as if
he is knocking on the door of elite, regardless we'll
have more information at the end of twenty twenty six
to know whether to go forward in terms of touting
him as one of the. GREATS i want to quickly
transition SOMETHING i wrote, about but this will bring us
to what we want to talk, about which is The Dallas.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Cowboys.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
YEAH i wrote a Thing Lance tall ten perfect Player Team,
fits and the number one guy on the list Was
Caleb downs and you can see that article ON nfl dot.
COM i wrote it last weekend as part of My scouts.
Notebook you can check that. Out but Caitleb. DOWNS i
had number one in the list going to The Dallas
cowboys at.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Eleven they flip a pick.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Move up to get, him and in getting, them they
believe they really solidified their back in because they got
a high end player that is a great instinct of
aware player that can drop in the. Box he can
play anywhere in the, trangle whether it's in the, slot
whether it's at free or. Strong he can do all those,
things and he does it while also controlling the entire
(24:30):
year back. In to, me it was a no brainer
for The cowboys to make this pick when he was
sitting there close enough for them to move up and get.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
THEM I i'm glad you brought this, up because this
is exactly the DIRECTION i wanted to go with this.
Article i've got Some i'm, Gonna i'm, Gonna i'm gonna
cueue up guys that you put in, there and THEN
i want to get your thoughts in real time here
BECAUSE i love THESE i love these picks you. Make Jacob,
rodriguez tell me why you think second round or forty
third pick overall going to The. Dolphins tell me why
(24:59):
YOU i thought that was the perfect.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Fit Jeff afley's defense down AT maammi, man they want
to be A c ball fotball. Defense AND i don't
know if there's a more instinctive second level defender Than Jacob.
Rodriguez when you watch him on, tape AND i know
he surprised all of us with how he performed at the,
combine but, lance when you watch him, PLAY i wrote
in my, nose, man this dude plays much faster than his,
time much faster than he's gonna.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Test and then you look at, me it's, like oh,
no he tests will. Too and SO i just.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Think having an animal that can just see, it diagnose,
it go make plays it's gonna remind a lot of.
Guys AND i hate to say this because anytime you
make these comparison to gold jacket, guys it tends to go.
Awry but WHEN i looked At Zach thomas play in
the middle of that defense years, Ago jacob Right reguez
gives me some of that flavor in terms of being
(25:48):
able to just see, it get it and make.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
PLAYS i just think he's gonna be a fantastic player
in that.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
DEFENSE i, think you, know in college, football not having
great instincts and not diagnosing and processing it. Quickly if
you have really good, athleticism it really and you have good,
quickness you, know burst and, acceleration initial, acceleration especially, laterally
it doesn't really come back to haunt you as much
(26:13):
in college football because the talent across from you is
not going to be as. Good if you're a high
level you, know first first two day, pick we'll call
it two day. Pick once you get to the, pros
if you are a step slow to, process a, step
slow to, recognize a, step slow to, diagnose all the
speed and quickness in the, world it starts to not
(26:35):
matter as. Much because offensive linemen are climbing up on
you at different. Angles they got different levels of strength
when they get their hand on. You even if they
don't get two hands on, you even if they don't
square you, up there's a different level of. Strength and
so when you see players who instantly diagnose and are
flowing almost before the play even heads in a, direction
(26:56):
they already have a feel and instinct for where it's
going to. Go sometimes that's just a lot of tape
study and. Recognition those players tend to be good very.
Quickly Carson schwesschinger had, that and he had he was
a one year starter out OF ucla and he was
Defensive roomie of The. Year is a fifty to one long.
Shot Darius lennard filled up the stat sheets when he
(27:18):
was A South Carolina, state filled it up in the
pros as, well and he wasn't the fastest, player but
he played. Fast and that's what you're talking about with
with With jacob is that he plays. Fast and if
you can play, fast you're forty times and it's forty
times way faster than we. Thought but if you play
fast with your eyes and you play fast with your,
reactions the forty time becomes irrelevant because you're you stay
(27:41):
ahead of the blocks all the. TIME i WANT i
want to move to a few more of these Because
i'm fascinated by some of. Them number Six Bud. Clark
these are guys we don't talk about as, much but
are good football. Players Bud, clark total, ballhawk a little
under the little. Undersize he's had some injury. Issues tell
me why you Love Bud clark With.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
SEATTLE i think right, Now, lance we're at a time
where the league is transitioning TO i won't say positionless,
ball but we're seeing more dbs on the, field and
you have to have dbs that can carry different skills.
Sets so In Bud, clark the star position is what
everyone on the collegiate level talks.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
About that slot.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Defender sometimes he's a, safety sometimes he's a, corner but
he's a little bit of a do it all playmaker
at that. Position, Well Bud clark has tremendous ball skills and.
Instincts he's a ball hawk obviously in the passing, game
but he has some nastiness to him where you can
see him come off with. Listen you can see him
do a bunch of different things that will enhance what
The seahawks already. Do AND i look at how The
(28:45):
seahawks got down last, year AND i look At nick
And Mary worry.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
And what they did With Devon, witherspoon and how they like.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
To have these corners that have transitioned to safety because
it gives them so much flexibility and versatility and how
to with. Teams he falls in line with, that and
so to, me not only is the player a really good,
player but he is a player with the traits and
the skills to really thrive in the scheme that they play.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
In here's my last one for you for the for
the end of the, episode and then we'll come back
and do it all over again in a few. Days number,
Ten Drew, Aller this is fascinating. Number he's a third round,
pick number seventy six, overall AND i pulled him up
because of what you wrote up On Drew. ALLER i
think that. BACKGROUND i don't know if he's ever going
(29:35):
to get it all. TOGETHER i JUST i just have
so many doubts after watching him on. Tape but you've
got a very what you wrote up on this and
your backdrop in terms of isolating him as a. FIT
i think is really.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Fascinating, yeah, Now Drew, RATHER i think people have to.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Understand and one of the THINGS i know people hate
this because they hate the, stars. Right they hate when
the recruiting analysts give these guys stars and they, like
they don't even know it never makes. It but you
got to understand, that, man this dude was a high
end quarterback coming out of high school and he had
to battle through some adversity At Penn state and all those.
Things so you have a five star, recruit and normally
(30:13):
you think about it like we think about the. Draft
when you have five star, recruit you have these natural
talents and traits where people are projecting you to be a.
Pro so he already has the, Size he certainly has
the arm talent to do. It so you like that
part of. It but THEN i think About mike McCarthy
and WHAT i do know about him because he was
a quarterback coach At Kansas city WHEN i was playing,
there so we've always had a really good. Relationship and
(30:34):
when he went To Green bay AND i would go
make visits up there and he would talk about the quarterback.
Position he was really big on the quarterback school because
he learned In Kansas, city and like With Joe, montana, like,
hey we want to put these guys in the off,
season put them through a very rigorous training module that
then will allow them to maximize their. Talents they did
it In Green bay for years With Aaron, rodgers and
(30:55):
you look in his, past you See Aaron brooks that
developed on his watch and eventually became A prod caliber.
Player you think About Aaron, rodgers who, look he didn't
pick him number, one but the next year he shows.
Up And Aaron rodgers sits for a couple more years
Behind Brett, fahr but then he becomes the player that
is eventually a four TIME.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Mvp he makes his way To dallas.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
And Dak prescott plays the best ball of his career
Under mike. McCarthy So mike McCarthy certainly knows how to
take a very talented quarterback and push him closer to his.
Potential so And Drew aller a third round, pick someone
that is a developmental. Prospect if you didn't get a
chance to see the clips over the, weekend they saw
him working out and the little things that they're doing
(31:35):
for him as a quarterback to slow him, down and
the start to give him those. FUNDAMENTALS i just think
with the third round, pick with someone with those, tools
why not take a throw a dart at? It because
if you hit on, him, man you're talking about being
ahead of the, curve not only talent, wise but in
terms of what you can do with your. TEAM i
Like mike McCarthy being able to work with him, because to,
(31:57):
Me Drew allen is the perfect ball of clay for
him to mold into being not only he starting, quarterback
but maybe a franchise quarterback In.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Pittsburgh, yeah that's.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
A great, backdrop a great backdrop on why and that's
going all the way. BACK i just found it very.
FASCINATING i appreciate you getting into that because he is
a guy who was considered one of the top quarterbacks
coming into the draft when we. Entered certainly after his
season in twenty twenty, four.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
People were talking about him in that playoff room when
they lose to note their, Name hell you come, out
he might be the second or third.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
QUARTERBACK i were, like that grew.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Out that's the, conversation AND i think some people remember
that and when you think About, pittsburgh they're, like, look
we were talking about this guy really, high like he
had an. Injury it didn't go, well but the talent
is still there and they are certainly a believer in their.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Coach and because they believe so.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Heavily And mike McCarthy and his developmental, SKILLS i just
think That Drew alert is a nice fit and a
third round pick if it doesn't work. Out so what
you know What i'm. Saying it isn't like you use
a top ten pick like this is a perfect dart
to throw at someone who's extremely. Talented AND i, think
as we're, learning because you brought this up first, round third,
(33:13):
round no second, round either you love them enough to
take him in the first round or you take him
in the third, round and you do. It and WHEN
i think About Drew, allen AND i also like the
fact That Carson beck win The Arizona this is when
you throw those darts because those guys are talented enough
to intrigue, you but not quite enough to make you
have the convention to, say, hey he's definitely going to
(33:33):
be our franchise. Quarterback but to, me it was the
value and the talent that made.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
It the third round is where you get good backups,
Too Davis mill's a third round, like you get good
backups in the third. Round Kirk cousins when he was
drafted WAS i, THINK i want to say early fourth
maybe is When kirk came.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Out he was around.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
There so this is where you make a legitimate backup
quarterback draft. Pick but when you're in the third you
still it's feasible that you can still maybe grow them
into being future. Starters but if, not you still have
the fallback of, hey they're. Backups once you get in the,
fourth you're looking at backs for. Sure third round still
gives you the ability to potentially move them, up but
(34:11):
you don't have the same financial hit second. ROUNDERS i
feel like second rounders might as well be first rounders
because you're expecting them Like Tyler schuck to come in
and they need to play, well and they can get
coaches in trouble. Too you get drafted in the. Second
so that's WHY i think so few quarterbacks are drafted
in the second, round and you see most of them
higher percentage in the first than. Third but then first
(34:32):
is where, okay we're, stamping we're gonna put a stamp on.
This the second is we're gonna put a, stamp but
we got a little bit of we don't want to
do it too. High we got other. Positions we may
be looking at the third round is, okay we noise
at least a, backup but maybe there's something else here
because the traits and then once you get to the
fourth round and, beyond it's like hot. Luck it, is you, know,
(34:56):
backup and maybe we'll get, something maybe they'll. Develop but
this idea that Tom brady's you know whoa Well Tom.
Brady Tom brady's one of. One there's not guys that
are coming from a sixth round becoming full time. Starters
it's an extremely Rare, YEAH i, Know, KIRK i Know,
Kurt Kurt warner Got Kurt warner was bagging. Groceries we
all know who the outliers.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Were but, Yeah Dak prescott was a fourth round. Pick
it is rare to do. It BUT i will say
this as we're wrapping this. Up WHEN i was In
Green bay And Ron wolf was there And Mike hogan was,
there and you have to Understand mike McCarthy also spent
time In San, francisco and this was.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
A Bill walsh. Thing, yeah every other year you take
a young.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Quarterback you developed, them because the quarterback is not only
the most important, position but it's the biggest trade chip
that you can. Acquire if you can develop a young
quarterback and put them on the field and someone falls
in love with the, flashes it brings back a significant
hall and that is worthy of the time invested in
(35:57):
the quarterback as you're trying to develop.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Them let me see if you have some, man my, Man,
LANCE i love, It lance like this was this was? Fun.
MAN i LIKE i like doing all.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
THIS i like doing the deep dive in the, draft
AND i like as we're getting closer to OTA's starting mini,
camps the official mini camps with teams and those, things,
look maybe we're gonna do deep dives and talk about these,
players talk about these, fits and continue to talk about
how these teams have constructed the rosters to give them
the best chance to have a chance of success going.
(36:27):
Forward next, Time, lance maybe by the time we're on
we might have scheduled release and have some things to
talk about and stick until.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Then I'm bucky brought To. Lancy this move. Sticks whichever
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Daniel Jeremiah
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