May 26, 2026 • 37 mins
Bucky Brooks and Lance Zierlein talk exclusively quarterbacks on the latest edition of Move the Sticks. The MTS duo weighs in on an internet debate comparing Aaron Rodgers and John Elway, before discussing Matthew Stafford's contract extension with the Los Angeles Rams. Then, Bucky and Lance re-rank their top-5 quarterbacks heading into the 2026 NFL season.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
We'regan move the sticks. I am Bucky Broughton. That is
my man on the other side of the screen. Atlant
is their lyne alz. What's going on? How would you
be worried that?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Oh? Man, it was good. It was just did a
little uh, did a little cleaning around the house, got
some things thrown out, took some things to the trash,
and then watched my astros no no pun intended, just
watch my astros get their eighteenth no hitter. Since their
inception leads the league by a good margin eighteen no hitters,
(00:34):
and so since I've been on the radio, they've thrown eight.
So you know, no big deal.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, they only had fifteen guys contributed that, right, That
was like a collaborative effort. It wasn't like one guy
just doing getting it done.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Only only three this time, only three a kid from
Japan who has not been happy being in the States,
Like I wanted some of the Dodger Japanese players their
Yankee jack. For these players, we get one and he's
immediately tattuya in my is immediately like this mound is
too hard. Y'all, y'all eat dinner at you know, at
(01:09):
the park. I'm used to eating it at the hotels,
and I'm like, we got things are gonna be the same. Man,
You got to adjust, Yeah, adjustment.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Well, congratulations to him for being a part of the
noum no. I saw that run across the screen last
night ESPN. I was checking out, like the end of
the hockey game call and Hurricanes.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Oh your hockey. You'll watch hockey too.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
We hometown team. They appeared to be on their way
to going to the Stanley Cup. They had an overtime
win over the Mantro Canadians, so that was good. But
we got to talk about this because this was popping
up on social I wasn't paying attention. I was kind
of all over the place this weekend, but I did
not know Mike wilbon and Steven A. Smith calls a
little bit of a controversy when they had the conversation
(01:54):
regarding Aaron Rodgers versus John Elway and Mike Wilbonda Steven A.
Smith and I would say, right, really so for saying
he has no idea what he's saying when he's talking
about Aaron Rodgers is a most a more physically talented
quarterback than John Elway. I just can't believe that's what
I heard. And I know you are in the camp
(02:17):
with me. There's no way you believe that Aaron Rodgers
is a more talented and gifted quarterback than John.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Hold up, now I did say this. I'm trying to
look exactly what I tweeted. It's not that long ago.
It was last week where I said Aaron Rodgers is
the most talented thrower of the football that I've ever seen. Now,
physically gifted is a little different, and you and I
(02:47):
can get into the differences because I think it's an
interesting concept when we start talking about quarterback play because
there is the mental which is totally different. Like Joe Montana,
Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning was not physically gifted per se.
He had some you know, an average arm, kind of
threw a little wobbly, you know, his ball was not
(03:08):
the prettiest ball out there, but he could beat you
with his mind. John Elway, Dan Marino. But Elway's on
a different level. Like Marino had a special arm. Elway
had everything, I mean everything, and then but for for
what I was talking about in terms of release quickness,
zip placement on all three levels, ability to throw on
(03:32):
the move to wherever you wanted, whatever however you wanted
to designate a passer of the football, whether in the
pocket or out of the pocket. The most talented I've
ever witnessed throwing the football across all all levels of
definition would be Aaron Rodgers. Now, if we're talking about
(03:52):
the most physically gifted, I think you might be right.
I think I think Josh Allen's up there with John Elway.
I think I think he's up there. And I think
we have a tendency. I know we have a tendency
to lean towards the bigger quarterbacks. Buck the bigger quarterbacks
who can sling it and who can run. They obviously,
you know, have an advantage. If if Cam Newton were
(04:16):
a better football, he would be He would be really
intriguing too. He just wasn't as accurate as the other
two guys. I mean, Josh Allen has done what I
thought was the impossible, which has become a substantially more
accurate passer. And I wasn't sure, and I'm still not sure.
I still think he might be one of the outliers.
(04:38):
I don't I don't buy anything when people see an
accuracy issue with the quarterback buck and we're doing our
draft stuff and you see all the fans and sometimes
media and maybe sometime us we try to say, well,
maybe he can become a much more I personally still
operate off the fact that Josh Allen is not the norm.
It's really rare to see somebody become a more accurate
(05:00):
natural pass.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, and I would say this, and like we kind
of opened up this conversation by including other guys outside
of Aaron Rodgers and John Elway. I think it's great
that you brought up Josh Allen because you certainly need
to also bring up Cam Newton. I think if people
go back and watch what Cam Newton did at Auburn,
he was a one man wrecking machine leading a team
that only had one other pro on that squad to
(05:23):
a natty and so Nick Fairley was the other guy
that was able to get it done in the league
that played along Cam Newton. So you talk about Kim
a big physical specimen who overwhelmed people. You talk about
the accuracy being wayward. It certainly wasn't like high level consistently.
But I would say he and Josh Allen also benefited
from the fact that teams built offenses around their talents,
(05:47):
and some of the things that we've seen from Josh
Allen has been the scheme being able to correct some
of the flaws that he may have entered the league
with in terms of accuracy issues in those things. I
think I would be remiss if I didn't mention, Hey,
Lamar Jackson was a freaking nature when he entered the league.
I watched him personally when he played at Louisville against
North Carolina, and I had never seen anybody who could
(06:09):
do those things run around, I can't even say like
a running back, but like a scatback. He's just flying around,
but also had really good passing skills in those things.
And I think Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson being in
the same draft class where we weren't quite ready for
that new school quarterback, it's really interesting that those guys
have come of goed to the top of that class.
(06:31):
When we go back and look at it, Michael Vick
was a freaking nature, But two thousand and one is
my first draft left handed, he was right at six
foot six'. One the league wasn't really ready for that
kind of. Quarterback he certainly is. Gifted but in the
conversation Between Aaron rodgers And John, ELWAY i think what's
interesting y'all was scouting Into West Coast Aaron Rodgers Alex.
SMITH i gave both of them the exact same. Grade
(06:54):
and at the, time there was a stigma Around Aaron
rodgers because he played For Jeff tedford AT cal And Jeff,
tefford if anyone, knows and when he was At. Fresno
then AT, cal they had this unique thing about the
way they held the ball like they kind of held
it on the, shelf and, yeah the way they created,
it it was just it was. Different it was almost
(07:15):
little league high school like when you see. It AND
i Remember mike McCarthy had to work tiresly With Aaron
rodgers to kind of bring that more down to the
middle of it's just a more traditional way to do.
It and his talent was good and That kale team was.
Fantastic he Had Deshaun jackson And Marshawn lynch and all
those guys that had kind of come through during that.
(07:35):
Time Aaron rodgers was there and they lit it, up
and he lit it. Up he was very accurate and,
precise AND i saw them play AGAINST usc and he
had his way against. Them he certainly was, talented but
WHEN i think about like a transcendent, PLAYER i couldn't
put him into transcendent category when he was a college.
Prospect now he's become a transcendent player as a. Pro
(07:57):
AND i think my thing With Aaron rodger would be
how guys can improve once they get to the, league
because it Was rocky for those first two to three
years when he was working Behind Brett favr and then
when he finally got a chance to play after that first,
season he took off and he's become the gold jacket
guy that he. Is John elway was. Different and the
reason Why John elway was different in my, mind uh
(08:19):
number one overall pick in THE. Nfl he was drafted
by The New York. Yankees in, baseball he was drafted fifty,
second a second round. Pick you know who he was
drafted in front, of because we're talking about physics and.
Gifted Tony gwinn was drafted six spots After John. Elway
that's how Good John elway was as a player as
a baseball, player that's what they thought about, him six
spots ahead of. That now we're talking about THE nfl
(08:41):
career of the Five Super, bowls the first, THREE i,
mean no disrespect to those guys he played with for The,
broncos but he was carrying those. Guys AND i remember
BECAUSE i was Playing techno bold and video games with
that team that he didn't have much Beyond John. ELWAY i,
mean look look ahead to Have Mechl. Murray they didn't
(09:01):
have many guys and he was. THROWING i Think Sammy
winder was was a back that he had, Vance joe's.
Advance johnson was won to wide. Receivers they didn't have,
much but he was able to do. IT i just
think from a gifted, Standpoint John elway was more gifted
Than Aaron. Rodgers even though we can debate who had
the BETTER nfl.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Career, yeah, yeah you know minus very, specifically the best
passer of the football for me Is Aaron. RODGERS i,
MEAN i and you can throw In John. MARINO i,
Mean i'm, Sorry Dan. Marino from the, pocket he had
this created, zip he had this crazy quick, release but
he was outside of the. Pocket he didn't he didn't have.
(09:41):
That John elway had it outside of the. Pocket without. Question,
Now John elway also came up at a. Time this
is so difficult to hear because you, Know i've got
kids for, teenagers buck you do they like to argue.
Sports it's just based all on. Stats it's all lists
see today on TikTok Or. Instagram what list did they
(10:02):
see and its? Stats and there's no way you can ever,
like it's jarring to look at any quarterbacks before about
nineteen ninety, nine two thousand and you go look at
their stats compared to, now it's two apples and. Oords
you can't make the case because those quarterbacks were often
relied on to throw more, vertically there's going to be more.
Interceptions it was less about control, passing so the completion
(10:26):
numbers are. Lower you don't have the same touchdown interception.
Numbers you don't have the same touchdown numbers in terms
of passing. Touchdowns But John, elway what he was able
to do is he did he carried a team on his.
Back go watch the Documentary lway that was On. Netflix.
Phenomenal they talk About they cover everything about him starting In,
(10:46):
stanford about the fuss whenever he decided he did not
want to go play for The indianapolis or at that,
time was A Baltimore, COLTS i, guess and you, know
the look at whether or not he was a, Diva
and it's a great. Documentary and it also shows what
he went through his first two to three. Seasons and
then you, know we forget winning the championship is so
(11:06):
important in. Football AND i Know i'm all over the place,
here But John elway forever was the guy who couldn't
get it. Done, yeah it was always great in the regular.
Season look what happens in The Super? Bowl al is?
This it was The James harden of the THE, nfl
although he was although he was more consistent in the,
playoffs but when he got The Super, bowls he got wiped.
(11:27):
Out it wasn't always his, fault but he didn't play
great in The Super bowls, either and then once he
got the, title it was. Gone you didn't have To
it's such a huge monkey off your back in THE
nfl for, Quarterbacks yeah it.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Is it's a big monkey off the. Back AND i
think what has happened for us people have gotten too
loose with the terms generational talent transcendent, Talent like we
kind of lumped those. In but if you think about by,
definition generation, man you should see those guys like once
every decade if we're gonna put that that tab on Hat. Moost,
YEAH i mean like when we talk about, it AND
(12:03):
i think the one thing that we talk and this
has kind of changed also BECAUSE i would say the
way that teams have you, know on our, side the media,
side we always talk about you push quarterbacks. Up so
teams have taken quarterbacks at number one. Overall that back
in the, day we never would have talked about them
being the first overall pick or the best player in the.
Drafts it's just because the game has changed where the
(12:25):
passing game is modus. Operanda that is how most teams
are getting it. Done they're throwing the ball all over
it and if you don't have a, quarterback you don't really
have a chance in this. League and so that has
forced us to take more gambles and swings on people number.
One but if we treat the number one overall, pick
if we treat the top five like it's supposed, to
those guys should come fully. Equipped we talk about no instructions.
(12:46):
Needed they should have the, arm, talent they should have the,
athleticism the, pedigree THE, iq all those things that you're looking,
for and that should always be the standard when we
talk about. IT i would, say Now Aaron rodgers has
become the gold standard that quarterback because in his, prime and,
look he's forty, two forty, three he's not in the prime.
Anymore but when we think about him in his, prime the
(13:06):
way that he could deliver from the, pocket the way
that he can make plays on second, reactions scrambles outside
of the, pocket moving breaking, plays creating explosive play opportunities
because he could move around and extend the. PLAY i,
mean that's kind of what you want in the modern,
quarterback and that's what everyone is looking for when we
talk about the next generation of, quarterbacks whether it's The
(13:29):
ka The Williams, Effect Jaydon, daniels even to a less,
Degree Drake may being able to get outside of, it
And rogers has kind of laid the blueprint for what
we expect the MODERN nfl quarterback to play like and
to perform like inside and outside of the.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Pocket would you Call JOHN L way? Generational do you
you put that label on him? OFFICIALLY i think.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
SO i think so back back, then BECAUSE i think
if you talk about, it like in the eighties when
he came out like you just didn't see quarterbacks who did.
That now here's the funny. Thing we would have killed
him if we were evaluating you, know his team never
went to a bowl. GAME i just think about that As, Stanford,
like as great as he, is number one over a,
pick it's hard.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
To get into a bowl. Game back then though it.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Was it was. Harder but just think about how stringent
the standards are now when we evaluate quarterbacks and how
we put you, know team wins AND qb wins into the.
Equation the fact that he didn't got his team to
a bowl, game that would have been something that would
have been a talking point on the various shows that
we've been on when it comes to evaluating quarterbacks and. Prospect.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah you know another guy THAT i took that into
account with, THAT i THAT i kind Of i'm NOT
i didn't sleep on, them BUT i, did you, KNOW
i looked at the Negative it was a case of
not projecting the talent because he was on a little
bit of a quote unquote lesser team Is Patrick. Mahomes
he was on he was on A Texas tech. Team you,
(14:52):
know he played three years Of Texas. Tech, also like
he was also a pitcher Like John. Elway and let's,
See Texas tech was seven and, six four and five in.
Conferences sophomore year where he, led he LED i believe the.
Nation we led his conference in passing yards with forty
(15:12):
six hundred and fifty three yards and thirty six touchdowns fifteen.
Interceptions the very next, year his final year in, college
he threw for over five thousand yards with forty one,
touchdowns And Texas tech that year in The Big twelve
finished five and, seven but three and, six and So
(15:33):
Pat mahomes was not a winner in, college and he
took a lot of. Chances he made throws that were
off platform that he shouldn't, have kind of developed some bad,
Habits and in my, Mind i'm, thinking, man this reminds
me of Of Jay. Cutler you got to remember this
is two thousand and, seven half right up and. Seventeen i'm,
like this is reminding me Of Jay. Cutler he's got
all this, talent his great, arm but he just leans
(15:55):
into doing some dumb stuff sometimes and he got out
of once's a crew.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Around, yeah it's the. Same so like it's funny you
brought up j. Color Ja culor was the same. Thing.
Man he was a terrific talent for a Middling vanderbilt
team and they barely could get their nose over five
hundred while he was. There and some of that is
AND i, SAID i felt like it Heard Jay cutler
in his, career BECAUSE i, MEAN i tweeted this, Before
(16:23):
i've talked about it When i've written about. Him he
never understood HOW i play winning football because he was
so careless and reckless with the ball because that's what
he always had to do At. VANDERBILT i don't know
if he ever reined it in and learned how to
really play winning. Football and For Pat, mahomes AND i
think it's funny the revisionist history that people have. Now,
HEY i have texts in my phone from scouts THAT
(16:45):
i talked to during that time where they, said, hey,
MAN i give a. Second i've never seen this. Work
i've never seen this work in the. League i've never
seen someone go from.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Me he was an error, too which at the time
was you had just had goth drafted with the first.
Pick but the thought at that, time AND i, remember
because we got to keep up with drafts and what we,
do it was no air raid quarterbacks made it before
none And pat was the second or air raid quarterback
who also didn't win in. College like you're, right people
(17:17):
have revised its revisionist history On Patrick. Mahomes it was
a little bit of a risk For andy to come
up there to number ten And brett each to come
up to. Ten BUT i, mean obviously the proof is
in the.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Pudding it has worked. Out, Okay So i'm going to
read my. NOTES i just wanted my notes the stuff
that people told me on. Him he had serious arm.
Talent he was really impressive on tape before the. Injury
sure he's careless with the, ball but he makes some
wild throws if you guys can. Make, plus he's athletic and.
Tough he would need some time to go into the
(17:49):
player that you wanted to, be but he could be
at start to the next. Level compared him to listen
to these two names we were talking, about go, Ahead
Matthew stafford And Jay. Cupp. Yeah then he, said another
guy told me physically he's a first round, talent but
you have to be patient for his talent to. Reach
his potential forces a lot of. Balls some of that
is having to do too much to make up for
(18:10):
What Texas tech lacks talent was he had to do
more to win shootouts in The big. Twelve his their
talent is on the lower end of the. Conference just
really really interesting to have two guys who are well
respected scouts tell me that back then and one for
me to keep that in my. Notes that is, Bananas
Like i'm trying To, Yeah march thirty or twenty, seventeen
(18:32):
that's when those texts came. In BUT i have. Him
this is a nice jump off point because in that
COMMENT i talked About Jay cutler And Matthew. Stafford Matthew
stafford just inc the deal that is. Phenomenal one year
extension fifty five million dollars that is worth up to
(18:52):
sixty million value with excentives thirty. Eight he is now
on the contract until twenty twenty. Seven he's coming off
IN mvp year when he had forty seven hundred, yards
forty six, touchdowns eight, interceptions and a one pH nine
point two passer. Rating so now this leads us to
top five quarterbacks going into twenty twenty. Five, Now, LANCE i,
(19:15):
MEAN i know we both have our, list BUT i
think it's hard not to put THE mvp at number
one When Matthew stafford is coming off that kind of.
Year so for, ME i Have Matthew stafford at number
one just because the, efficiency the, effectiveness the, playmaking the,
ability the explosive plays that passing game generates with him at.
QUARTERBACK i know he's almost, forty BUT i haven't seen
(19:39):
anybody play that kind of ball like that right, then
so right, Now AND i know in this new era
with all these new school, Quarterbacks i'm kind of going
with a, traditionalist an old school throwback In Matthew stafford
to be number one on my.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
List what do you? Think, YEAH i got him at
number one. TWO i mean it's hard and it's not
like he's we're basing this on a. YEAR i, Mean Matthew,
stafford this is a, long long. Run he's like, whin
he's getting he's getting better with, age AND i don't
see it. Changing like there's not any. Signs you know
a lot of times with, quarterbacks maybe you can see
(20:11):
some signs here or, there and every once in a
while the falloff would be precipitous, immediately like we saw
with With Peyton, manning where it was it just all
of a sudden went from fifty touchdown so like was
was almost a liability for The broncos the year they
won The Super bowl With Matthew. Stafford you, know it's
crazy because you. DON'T i don't see any. FALLOFF i.
(20:35):
Don't he looks the exact same as he's looked over
these last several years. Forty if, anything he's, well he's
looks substantially. Better this is the most impressive statistical campaign
he's ever. Had his touchdown to interception numbers are, exceptional
Like buck at thirty, seven there's No and remember he
(20:56):
had an arm issue coming into last season that we
didn't know if it would he. Properly wasn't the last
season or was was that the year he.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Had ye had, back he had. Arms he's had a
few different issues that. Awesome concerned that we thought he
may not even come back and play.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Again, yeah BECAUSE i remember The texans had In week
one and we Thought Matthew stafford may not even be
a factor In week. One AND i don't know at that,
time we didn't know THE mvp was taken on just
an absolute you, know hornets nest of a, defense uh
in that first week to start last. Year BUT i.
DON'T i don't Put johnny cum. Lately he's up lightly,
Right Drake. MAY i, MEAN i don't, WANNA i don't
(21:32):
wanna spoiler alert, you But i'm glad he had a
great year last. Year but we'll see if he makes
it on my top. Five But Matthew stafford is a
pedigree talent and he looks like he's playing his best
football right. NOW i have to put him at number one,
two respect for last. Year there's no REASON i think
there's a big fall off.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Coming, okay so number, two number, Two i'm gonna snake. It,
okay let's do.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
IT i Got i've Got Josh allen at number. Two
i'm looking at every everything we talked about With Josh.
ALLEN i, mean that's Why i'm plugging him in at number.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Two hey, look, Man i'm right there with. YOU i
have him at number, two AND i think what it
is right now For Josh, allen it's the overall threat
that he poses as a, run, pass playmaker inside outside the,
pocket twenty five, touchdowns ten, interceptions but what he does
on the ground and those guy to have it. Moments
And i'll say this LIKE i can't say that he
(22:22):
is coming off a spectacular year, statistically BUT i feel
like it might have been his best year in terms
of just the way that he willed this team to.
Victory AND i got a chance to see it in
the postseason walker. Around he took over the game against
The Jacksonville. Jaguars and what he's done IS i think
he's become a mature playmaker where he will run in
(22:42):
these WHAT i call it guy to have in, moments
third down and crucial red zone game on the, line
two minute, situation that's when he will take. Off he's
learned how to protect himself and not putting himself in
harm's way as, much but it's still. Dangerous and so
that's why to, me he's worthy of being number. Two,
Now nemesis comes right in after, me and That's Pat
(23:03):
mahomes at number. Three AND i know most TIMES i
would Say Pat mahomes is number, one but given the
knee injury and given maybe the fall off of the,
offense he kind of suffers because of. That but make
no mistake about, it this dude is a phenomenal. TALENT
i read off those notes from way. Back he has
exceeded all expectations when he came into the league a
(23:24):
unicorn at the position in terms of how he run
arounds and how he runs around makes. Plays he's BEEN
mvp a couple of. Times he's done it in The
Super bowl. Level he had The Kancity chiefs on a
remarkable run where they went the. Five all those things
that you demand from a. Quarterback he's checked off the.
Boxes it's just, now what is the bounce back like
coming off that knee and having to kind of flip
(23:46):
this roster as they try and get younger as their
stars age.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Out this is a tougher one for, me just because
it gets very subjective after the first couple AND i
went With mahomes out of out of respect FOR i
know who he can. BE i didn't want to hold
last year against. HIM i don't want to hold THE
acl against him this year BECAUSE i already know he's
gonna come back just as good as he. Was he
(24:11):
And Stroop Bob stroop is his. Trainer they do a
great job of getting after. It SO i think you
have to Put Pat mahomes there for everything that we've
seen as a, winner as a, playmaker his ability to command.
Games there's no reason to think he won't bounce. Back
he's not going to be in control of what is
around him and what surrounds him and She rice's issues
(24:34):
And Travis kelsey getting, older the offensive line being beat
up last. Year he has no control over. That as a.
Quarterback IF i wanted to stick a quarterback on any
team in the. League Pat mahomes is one of the
top three That i'm. Picking so that's WHY i Put pat.
Third number four is gonna probably surprise you a little.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Bit, okay this is WHERE.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I got a little bit. TOUGH i ended up going
With Jared goff and, yeah, yeah, Yeah Okay, joe and
he's not the most So i'm gonna tell you. Why
he kind of fell into it Because lamar has been
hurt and hasn't played at the same level the last
couple of. Years Joe, BURROW i gotta See Joe. BURROW
(25:16):
i got to See joe do it. Again, HONESTLY i
need to See joe do it. Again he's talking ABOUT
i don't, KNOW i LOVE i want to GET i
love football. Again i'm, like oh my, GOSH i can't
be doing, This. Joe i'm not ready to Put jalen.
There Jalen hurts. There i'm not Putting drake. There and
(25:36):
the REASON i said golf is because golf is just.
Steady he's not going to excite. You forty five hundred
yards the last four years he's played every, game he's
gonna show up forty five hundred yards passing every single.
Year he's going to average about seven point seven seven
point eight to. Pass he's over thirty, touchdown he averages
over thirty. Touchdowns you know his interception totals are relatively
(26:02):
low in terms of touchdown interception. Numbers he's JUST i
know What i'm getting From Jared. Goff, now the problem
Is Lamar jackson can win. Games Joe burrow can win
games for you when he's. On there's a few guys
that can win. Games but IF i went by the
idea That Pat, MAHOMES i can Stick Pat mahomes on any.
(26:23):
OFFENSE i feel like IF i Stuck Jared goff in any,
offense he's going to pretty much give me the same.
NUMBERS i, think in the same.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Consistency, look, MAN i give you a lot of credit
like that is a bold move to Put Jared goff up,
There AND i would say, this he's the most slept
on top eight quarterback in the, league like for the
consistency that he's put. Up AND i think the litmus
test was him going To, detroit where everybody thought he
was going To detroit to fall off in his, career
was going to die for him to flourish in that.
(26:50):
Moment now some people, say, eh But Ben, Johnson, Well
Ben johnson Wasn't Ben johnson When Jared goff got. THERE
i Mean Dan campbell eventually was taking over the plays
and handed it To Ben, johnson and Then Ben johnson
And Jerry goff got together and that offense. Exploded so
give him credit a, systematic surgical. PLAYMAKER i like. HIM
i don't have him in my top. FIVE i Got
(27:10):
Joe burrow in this. Spot and part of, THAT i
think is reputation for me With Joe burrow when he's
healthy and, available he And Jamar chase AND T higgins
like they're an unstoppable. Offense but you are, right it's
time for him to like put up a shut up.
Like he has played at a high level and they
have gone to Super bowls and those. Things some would
(27:31):
say they probably should have won the Super bowl if
not for a bad call down in the red. Zone
but they missed the playoffs the last three years and
at some point his lack of availability has been an.
Issue so he needs to be. Upright he needs to
be there and available for the seventeen games that they,
play and he needs to play at that. Level so
right now he gets a little bit of a pass for,
(27:52):
me BUT i have him at. Four at five for,
ME i feel like you're about to hate on my
guy From Chapel, hill But i'm gonna put him at
five BECAUSE i think people have a little recency buas
based on how he underperformed in the, playoffs and that
Is Drake. May Drake may look if the postseason doesn't cloud.
IT i Think Drake may had a strong case to
be THE. MVP i think it would have been hard
(28:13):
for him to be, named even though the votes are
done at the end of the regular. SEASON i think
it would have been hard for him to be NAMED
mvp after what we saw with our eyes in the.
Postseason but that's. It that shouldn't take away from the
fact he had over forty three hundred. Yards he had
thirty one, touchdowns eight. Interceptions The patriots came out of,
nowhere to be THE afc champion and to represent THE
afc in The Super, bowl and a lot of that
was due to his play and his performance throughout the regular.
(28:36):
Season he can operate inside and outside of the. Pocket
he can deal and delivered with surgical. Precision he has
the athleticism to make plays with his. Legs we talk
about the new, school the. Prototypes he is one of
those guys that we're going to talk about and celebrate
as a new school quarterback that is going to be
a perennial top five. Town you, Know.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I'm given And i've ADMITTED i Gave pat kind of
a pass just because it's not about it's it's him
as a. Talent And i'm not counting last year against.
Him someone would, say why are you Counting Joe burrow against?
Him because just the year last year against, him because
just the year before he had this five thousand yard passing.
Season you, Know joe had this incredible. Season it's the
(29:19):
injuries for, me For Joe, burrow it's it's IT'S i
want to See joe stay. HEALTHY i want to see
him win at a clip number Five i've got you, know,
really there's there's three names And i'm gonna And i'm gonna.
Throw i'm having a hard time With Joe, Burrow Lamar,
jackson And Dak prescott.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
And, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
DAK i Thought dak played really well last. Year the
year Before dak got, hurt he had he played eight,
games And dak has had his own issue with injuries at.
Times but two of the last three years When dak
has been fully, Healthy dak has taking his game to
another level as a. Passer he went out in corrected some,
things and you, know he went out and made changes
(30:03):
to his body, type made changes to his annis AND
i think it's Made you can tell he's worked on
his game over the years and he's become a much
better pocket. Passer that defense was so janky last year
that you didn't really he didn't really get the respect
he probably deserved for the season he had. OFFENSIVELY i
(30:24):
Think dak is right there knocking on the door With
joe And Lamar. Jackson and LIKE i, Said i've got
a bias against a two year player In Drake may
simply BECAUSE i want him to do it the third.
YEAR i want to have a good. Year i'm not
going to kill him for the postseason, stuff BUT i
do want to see another good strong year because they're
playing a much tougher schedule this. Year let's see how
(30:46):
you do against the best teams in the. League and
when we have this conversation in a, year he'll be
on my list more than.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Likely, okay who's next for? You who's the next? One
who's the guy the?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
BREAKOUT i, mean the next. Stamped the NEXT i stamped
was Is Lamar, jackson Over Joe burrow and Over Dak
AND i gave you those are those guys who are
fighting the fifth spot for, me Because GOFF i did
put it for AND i decided going With lamar just
BECAUSE i know he. CAN i know he can make
(31:19):
plays and win games for you. Individually AND i Know
lamar got hurt last, year AND i know he was
hurt for a time during his you, know during HIS nfl.
Career but over the last few years he's actually been relatively.
Healthy he has not had the same amount of. Injuries
(31:41):
for What i'm going to his numbers right, now he
had in uh in sixteen and, seventeen twenty six and twenty,
seven both of those years he was much. Healthier he's
coming off with forty one touchdown performance last. Year we
know it wasn't as. Good look the ARGUMENTS i make
Against Joe, burrow you could make Against Lamar jackson if
you wanted. To you could make to a lesser extent
(32:02):
Against Dak, prescott who has missed some time as. Well
it's JUST i can't Put herbert. THERE i JUST i
can't do. It I'm i'm tired of everyone just Putting
herbert on the pedestal when he hasn't done enough in the.
Postseason you got to do it in the. Postseason i'm
not feeling it With Jared love If i'm being. Honest
Dalen hurts has no momentum coming into this season in my,
(32:23):
opinion and the Guy i'd love to put in, there
BUT i gotta see him doing it. Again As Caleb,
WILLIAMS i Think caleb's starting to show he's got some,
stuff like the things we thought we knew about him
in the REGULAR i mean and coming into the into
the draft when he was drafted in what was at twenty.
FOUR i saw some of that stuff flash last, Year
(32:44):
So i'm not so sure that he's not in this
conversation hot and heavy next.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Year, look SEE i know this And i'm disappointed even
in all the honorable mentioned names that you. Have, no, no, no, no,
no a lot of a lot of honorable mentioned. Names
but BUT i know what this. Is this is that
h town bias that you'll have against my guy who is,
next which Is Trevor. Lawrence Trevor lawrence has to be
in this conversation in terms of being. Next i'm just
(33:10):
looking at the. Numbers four thousand, yards twenty nine, touchdowns tever,
interceptions and i know what everyone's, Saying, oh, look he's
the guy who hasn't done, anything but everyone loves him
because he was number one overall. Pick But i'm, saying
it's a different it's a Different Trevor. Lawrence it's just
a Different Trevor lawrence that is. Coming this dude scored
thirty eight touchdowns last. Year he gets With liam Kin
(33:32):
Liam korn will tell you that two Areas trevor has
to improve upon to be one of those top five.
GUYS i would say one is the completion percentage has
to go. Up you can't complete six percent of your.
Passes you got to get that up to sixty seven
percent in this. League against the amount of soft coverage
that you, see you have to be able to dow
with more consistency in terms of delivering short intermediate. Passes that's.
(33:54):
One the other part is the overall. Efficiency twelve interceptions
is a lot in this. Game when we rattled off
those numbers for those guys at the, top then single.
Digits if he lowers the, interceptions his passer rating goes
up well over one. Hundred and we have Seen drake
may WHO i talked about one thirteen passer rating because
he took care of the. Ball so it's that fine
(34:15):
line between being aggressive and. Reckless once he learns how
to straddle that, line man disguise the. Limits So i'm
telling you right now we revisit. This you guys can
clip it and put it on the thing when we
come back next year at this time and talk about these.
Quarterbacks my man number, Sixteen Trevor lawrence is going to
be in there Because Liam korn at, offense they got around.
Him he's ready to take the jump to be one
(34:36):
of those elite quarterbacks in this.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
League, LISTEN i just got to put context on. This
So bucky. Done fool. Y'all what are we talking? About, well,
Listen Bucky's bucky's trying to use a slider hand on
your card. Trick he's he's pulling his. Uh he's that
old School David blaine stuff where he tracks himself on
an ice cube or something like. That, Listen i'm gonna
run through the game. Log these are the last six
(34:59):
games For Trevor. Lawrence, okay here's who he. Played tennessee,
twice a broke Down indianapolis team, twice The, jets and
then of course At, denver and that's a Good denver.
Team he had three, touchdowns no. Interceptions shout, Out Trevor.
LAWRENCE a good game for him Against. Tennessee in the
first game, too you, know two twenty, nine two, touchdowns no,
interceptions The, colts they were a wounded, dog two touchdowns on.
(35:23):
Interceptions The. Jets three thirty five, touchdowns no, Interceptions. Broncos
shout out two seventy, nine three and zero against The
colts at The colts the second time, Around, bucky you remember,
this two sixty, three no, touchdowns one, interception and then
he finished off the the Woeful titans with two fifty
five three. Touchdowns so he had fifteen touchdowns and one
(35:44):
interception over his last six. Games but those those Were
tennessee In indianapolis, twice The jets And.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Denver SO i, mean mean what it sounds. Like it
sounds Like Jalen bruston in The. Knicks that's what it sounds.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Like he was on.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Fire he was on. Fire AND i just think that's
gonna continue. On LIKE i hear what we're, saying.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
You're, saying he's the landry ship met of THE Afc, south,
Whatever Michale bridges of THE Afc.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
South every TIME i look out AND i see those
teams with those logos, whatever there's a LITTLE nfl shield
on their. Jersey THE nfl, TEAMS nfl, players he can't.
Help he cannot help who runs out the other end
of the. Tunnel he just got to give them the
business like he gave. Them AND i think he's gonna
give a lot of teams the. Business when we talk
about how he ends up as a top five quarterback.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
And me all jokes, aside one of my highest draft
Grades i've ever put out there was On Trevor, lawrence
AND i got a lot of respect for For Liam.
Cohen Liam cohen what he's done at The rams and
then At kentucky and then back to The, rams and
then now With jacksonville With Trevor, LAWRENCE i mean legitimate quarterback.
WHISPERER i Think Liam cohen is one of those. GUYS
(36:55):
i know we do it With Ben johnson a, lot
BUT i think you got to start doing with you
have to start doing it with With Liam cohen as.
Well it looks like that if If trevor plays well
again this next year and starts to, solidify you, know
the potential of who we thought he, was if he
shows that that's who he's, becoming or even a variation of,
that Then Liam cohen's gonna deserve a lot of credit for.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
That, well, look, man you know who deserves a lot of,
Credit my Man alz for coming on and helping me
sort out these top five, quarterbacks helping me kind of
have a debate and an argument About Aaron rodgers And
John elway and overall just being a great dude to
come on and chat some. Balls so later in the
week we'll be back On move The sticks to discuss
some more news and notes in THE nfl from a
(37:37):
Scoutacher sell until next, Time i'm Bucking. Brooks that's A
lz where
We'regan move the sticks. I am Bucky Broughton. That is
my man on the other side of the screen. Atlant
is their lyne alz. What's going on? How would you
be worried that?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Oh? Man, it was good. It was just did a
little uh, did a little cleaning around the house, got
some things thrown out, took some things to the trash,
and then watched my astros no no pun intended, just
watch my astros get their eighteenth no hitter. Since their
inception leads the league by a good margin eighteen no hitters,
(00:34):
and so since I've been on the radio, they've thrown eight.
So you know, no big deal.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, they only had fifteen guys contributed that, right, That
was like a collaborative effort. It wasn't like one guy
just doing getting it done.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Only only three this time, only three a kid from
Japan who has not been happy being in the States,
Like I wanted some of the Dodger Japanese players their
Yankee jack. For these players, we get one and he's
immediately tattuya in my is immediately like this mound is
too hard. Y'all, y'all eat dinner at you know, at
(01:09):
the park. I'm used to eating it at the hotels,
and I'm like, we got things are gonna be the same. Man,
You got to adjust, Yeah, adjustment.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Well, congratulations to him for being a part of the
noum no. I saw that run across the screen last
night ESPN. I was checking out, like the end of
the hockey game call and Hurricanes.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Oh your hockey. You'll watch hockey too.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
We hometown team. They appeared to be on their way
to going to the Stanley Cup. They had an overtime
win over the Mantro Canadians, so that was good. But
we got to talk about this because this was popping
up on social I wasn't paying attention. I was kind
of all over the place this weekend, but I did
not know Mike wilbon and Steven A. Smith calls a
little bit of a controversy when they had the conversation
(01:54):
regarding Aaron Rodgers versus John Elway and Mike Wilbonda Steven A.
Smith and I would say, right, really so for saying
he has no idea what he's saying when he's talking
about Aaron Rodgers is a most a more physically talented
quarterback than John Elway. I just can't believe that's what
I heard. And I know you are in the camp
(02:17):
with me. There's no way you believe that Aaron Rodgers
is a more talented and gifted quarterback than John.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Hold up, now I did say this. I'm trying to
look exactly what I tweeted. It's not that long ago.
It was last week where I said Aaron Rodgers is
the most talented thrower of the football that I've ever seen. Now,
physically gifted is a little different, and you and I
(02:47):
can get into the differences because I think it's an
interesting concept when we start talking about quarterback play because
there is the mental which is totally different. Like Joe Montana,
Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning was not physically gifted per se.
He had some you know, an average arm, kind of
threw a little wobbly, you know, his ball was not
(03:08):
the prettiest ball out there, but he could beat you
with his mind. John Elway, Dan Marino. But Elway's on
a different level. Like Marino had a special arm. Elway
had everything, I mean everything, and then but for for
what I was talking about in terms of release quickness,
zip placement on all three levels, ability to throw on
(03:32):
the move to wherever you wanted, whatever however you wanted
to designate a passer of the football, whether in the
pocket or out of the pocket. The most talented I've
ever witnessed throwing the football across all all levels of
definition would be Aaron Rodgers. Now, if we're talking about
(03:52):
the most physically gifted, I think you might be right.
I think I think Josh Allen's up there with John Elway.
I think I think he's up there. And I think
we have a tendency. I know we have a tendency
to lean towards the bigger quarterbacks. Buck the bigger quarterbacks
who can sling it and who can run. They obviously,
you know, have an advantage. If if Cam Newton were
(04:16):
a better football, he would be He would be really
intriguing too. He just wasn't as accurate as the other
two guys. I mean, Josh Allen has done what I
thought was the impossible, which has become a substantially more
accurate passer. And I wasn't sure, and I'm still not sure.
I still think he might be one of the outliers.
(04:38):
I don't I don't buy anything when people see an
accuracy issue with the quarterback buck and we're doing our
draft stuff and you see all the fans and sometimes
media and maybe sometime us we try to say, well,
maybe he can become a much more I personally still
operate off the fact that Josh Allen is not the norm.
It's really rare to see somebody become a more accurate
(05:00):
natural pass.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, and I would say this, and like we kind
of opened up this conversation by including other guys outside
of Aaron Rodgers and John Elway. I think it's great
that you brought up Josh Allen because you certainly need
to also bring up Cam Newton. I think if people
go back and watch what Cam Newton did at Auburn,
he was a one man wrecking machine leading a team
that only had one other pro on that squad to
(05:23):
a natty and so Nick Fairley was the other guy
that was able to get it done in the league
that played along Cam Newton. So you talk about Kim
a big physical specimen who overwhelmed people. You talk about
the accuracy being wayward. It certainly wasn't like high level consistently.
But I would say he and Josh Allen also benefited
from the fact that teams built offenses around their talents,
(05:47):
and some of the things that we've seen from Josh
Allen has been the scheme being able to correct some
of the flaws that he may have entered the league
with in terms of accuracy issues in those things. I
think I would be remiss if I didn't mention, Hey,
Lamar Jackson was a freaking nature when he entered the league.
I watched him personally when he played at Louisville against
North Carolina, and I had never seen anybody who could
(06:09):
do those things run around, I can't even say like
a running back, but like a scatback. He's just flying around,
but also had really good passing skills in those things.
And I think Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson being in
the same draft class where we weren't quite ready for
that new school quarterback, it's really interesting that those guys
have come of goed to the top of that class.
(06:31):
When we go back and look at it, Michael Vick
was a freaking nature, But two thousand and one is
my first draft left handed, he was right at six
foot six'. One the league wasn't really ready for that
kind of. Quarterback he certainly is. Gifted but in the
conversation Between Aaron rodgers And John, ELWAY i think what's
interesting y'all was scouting Into West Coast Aaron Rodgers Alex.
SMITH i gave both of them the exact same. Grade
(06:54):
and at the, time there was a stigma Around Aaron
rodgers because he played For Jeff tedford AT cal And Jeff,
tefford if anyone, knows and when he was At. Fresno
then AT, cal they had this unique thing about the
way they held the ball like they kind of held
it on the, shelf and, yeah the way they created,
it it was just it was. Different it was almost
(07:15):
little league high school like when you see. It AND
i Remember mike McCarthy had to work tiresly With Aaron
rodgers to kind of bring that more down to the
middle of it's just a more traditional way to do.
It and his talent was good and That kale team was.
Fantastic he Had Deshaun jackson And Marshawn lynch and all
those guys that had kind of come through during that.
(07:35):
Time Aaron rodgers was there and they lit it, up
and he lit it. Up he was very accurate and,
precise AND i saw them play AGAINST usc and he
had his way against. Them he certainly was, talented but
WHEN i think about like a transcendent, PLAYER i couldn't
put him into transcendent category when he was a college.
Prospect now he's become a transcendent player as a. Pro
(07:57):
AND i think my thing With Aaron rodger would be
how guys can improve once they get to the, league
because it Was rocky for those first two to three
years when he was working Behind Brett favr and then
when he finally got a chance to play after that first,
season he took off and he's become the gold jacket
guy that he. Is John elway was. Different and the
reason Why John elway was different in my, mind uh
(08:19):
number one overall pick in THE. Nfl he was drafted
by The New York. Yankees in, baseball he was drafted fifty,
second a second round. Pick you know who he was
drafted in front, of because we're talking about physics and.
Gifted Tony gwinn was drafted six spots After John. Elway
that's how Good John elway was as a player as
a baseball, player that's what they thought about, him six
spots ahead of. That now we're talking about THE nfl
(08:41):
career of the Five Super, bowls the first, THREE i,
mean no disrespect to those guys he played with for The,
broncos but he was carrying those. Guys AND i remember
BECAUSE i was Playing techno bold and video games with
that team that he didn't have much Beyond John. ELWAY i,
mean look look ahead to Have Mechl. Murray they didn't
(09:01):
have many guys and he was. THROWING i Think Sammy
winder was was a back that he had, Vance joe's.
Advance johnson was won to wide. Receivers they didn't have,
much but he was able to do. IT i just
think from a gifted, Standpoint John elway was more gifted
Than Aaron. Rodgers even though we can debate who had
the BETTER nfl.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Career, yeah, yeah you know minus very, specifically the best
passer of the football for me Is Aaron. RODGERS i,
MEAN i and you can throw In John. MARINO i,
Mean i'm, Sorry Dan. Marino from the, pocket he had
this created, zip he had this crazy quick, release but
he was outside of the. Pocket he didn't he didn't have.
(09:41):
That John elway had it outside of the. Pocket without. Question,
Now John elway also came up at a. Time this
is so difficult to hear because you, Know i've got
kids for, teenagers buck you do they like to argue.
Sports it's just based all on. Stats it's all lists
see today on TikTok Or. Instagram what list did they
(10:02):
see and its? Stats and there's no way you can ever,
like it's jarring to look at any quarterbacks before about
nineteen ninety, nine two thousand and you go look at
their stats compared to, now it's two apples and. Oords
you can't make the case because those quarterbacks were often
relied on to throw more, vertically there's going to be more.
Interceptions it was less about control, passing so the completion
(10:26):
numbers are. Lower you don't have the same touchdown interception.
Numbers you don't have the same touchdown numbers in terms
of passing. Touchdowns But John, elway what he was able
to do is he did he carried a team on his.
Back go watch the Documentary lway that was On. Netflix.
Phenomenal they talk About they cover everything about him starting In,
(10:46):
stanford about the fuss whenever he decided he did not
want to go play for The indianapolis or at that,
time was A Baltimore, COLTS i, guess and you, know
the look at whether or not he was a, Diva
and it's a great. Documentary and it also shows what
he went through his first two to three. Seasons and
then you, know we forget winning the championship is so
(11:06):
important in. Football AND i Know i'm all over the place,
here But John elway forever was the guy who couldn't
get it. Done, yeah it was always great in the regular.
Season look what happens in The Super? Bowl al is?
This it was The James harden of the THE, nfl
although he was although he was more consistent in the,
playoffs but when he got The Super, bowls he got wiped.
(11:27):
Out it wasn't always his, fault but he didn't play
great in The Super bowls, either and then once he
got the, title it was. Gone you didn't have To
it's such a huge monkey off your back in THE
nfl for, Quarterbacks yeah it.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Is it's a big monkey off the. Back AND i
think what has happened for us people have gotten too
loose with the terms generational talent transcendent, Talent like we
kind of lumped those. In but if you think about by,
definition generation, man you should see those guys like once
every decade if we're gonna put that that tab on Hat. Moost,
YEAH i mean like when we talk about, it AND
(12:03):
i think the one thing that we talk and this
has kind of changed also BECAUSE i would say the
way that teams have you, know on our, side the media,
side we always talk about you push quarterbacks. Up so
teams have taken quarterbacks at number one. Overall that back
in the, day we never would have talked about them
being the first overall pick or the best player in the.
Drafts it's just because the game has changed where the
(12:25):
passing game is modus. Operanda that is how most teams
are getting it. Done they're throwing the ball all over
it and if you don't have a, quarterback you don't really
have a chance in this. League and so that has
forced us to take more gambles and swings on people number.
One but if we treat the number one overall, pick
if we treat the top five like it's supposed, to
those guys should come fully. Equipped we talk about no instructions.
(12:46):
Needed they should have the, arm, talent they should have the,
athleticism the, pedigree THE, iq all those things that you're looking,
for and that should always be the standard when we
talk about. IT i would, say Now Aaron rodgers has
become the gold standard that quarterback because in his, prime and,
look he's forty, two forty, three he's not in the prime.
Anymore but when we think about him in his, prime the
(13:06):
way that he could deliver from the, pocket the way
that he can make plays on second, reactions scrambles outside
of the, pocket moving breaking, plays creating explosive play opportunities
because he could move around and extend the. PLAY i,
mean that's kind of what you want in the modern,
quarterback and that's what everyone is looking for when we
talk about the next generation of, quarterbacks whether it's The
(13:29):
ka The Williams, Effect Jaydon, daniels even to a less,
Degree Drake may being able to get outside of, it
And rogers has kind of laid the blueprint for what
we expect the MODERN nfl quarterback to play like and
to perform like inside and outside of the.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Pocket would you Call JOHN L way? Generational do you
you put that label on him? OFFICIALLY i think.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
SO i think so back back, then BECAUSE i think
if you talk about, it like in the eighties when
he came out like you just didn't see quarterbacks who did.
That now here's the funny. Thing we would have killed
him if we were evaluating you, know his team never
went to a bowl. GAME i just think about that As, Stanford,
like as great as he, is number one over a,
pick it's hard.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
To get into a bowl. Game back then though it.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Was it was. Harder but just think about how stringent
the standards are now when we evaluate quarterbacks and how
we put you, know team wins AND qb wins into the.
Equation the fact that he didn't got his team to
a bowl, game that would have been something that would
have been a talking point on the various shows that
we've been on when it comes to evaluating quarterbacks and. Prospect.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah you know another guy THAT i took that into
account with, THAT i THAT i kind Of i'm NOT
i didn't sleep on, them BUT i, did you, KNOW
i looked at the Negative it was a case of
not projecting the talent because he was on a little
bit of a quote unquote lesser team Is Patrick. Mahomes
he was on he was on A Texas tech. Team you,
(14:52):
know he played three years Of Texas. Tech, also like
he was also a pitcher Like John. Elway and let's,
See Texas tech was seven and, six four and five in.
Conferences sophomore year where he, led he LED i believe the.
Nation we led his conference in passing yards with forty
(15:12):
six hundred and fifty three yards and thirty six touchdowns fifteen.
Interceptions the very next, year his final year in, college
he threw for over five thousand yards with forty one,
touchdowns And Texas tech that year in The Big twelve
finished five and, seven but three and, six and So
(15:33):
Pat mahomes was not a winner in, college and he
took a lot of. Chances he made throws that were
off platform that he shouldn't, have kind of developed some bad,
Habits and in my, Mind i'm, thinking, man this reminds
me of Of Jay. Cutler you got to remember this
is two thousand and, seven half right up and. Seventeen i'm,
like this is reminding me Of Jay. Cutler he's got
all this, talent his great, arm but he just leans
(15:55):
into doing some dumb stuff sometimes and he got out
of once's a crew.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Around, yeah it's the. Same so like it's funny you
brought up j. Color Ja culor was the same. Thing.
Man he was a terrific talent for a Middling vanderbilt
team and they barely could get their nose over five
hundred while he was. There and some of that is
AND i, SAID i felt like it Heard Jay cutler
in his, career BECAUSE i, MEAN i tweeted this, Before
(16:23):
i've talked about it When i've written about. Him he
never understood HOW i play winning football because he was
so careless and reckless with the ball because that's what
he always had to do At. VANDERBILT i don't know
if he ever reined it in and learned how to
really play winning. Football and For Pat, mahomes AND i
think it's funny the revisionist history that people have. Now,
HEY i have texts in my phone from scouts THAT
(16:45):
i talked to during that time where they, said, hey,
MAN i give a. Second i've never seen this. Work
i've never seen this work in the. League i've never
seen someone go from.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Me he was an error, too which at the time
was you had just had goth drafted with the first.
Pick but the thought at that, time AND i, remember
because we got to keep up with drafts and what we,
do it was no air raid quarterbacks made it before
none And pat was the second or air raid quarterback
who also didn't win in. College like you're, right people
(17:17):
have revised its revisionist history On Patrick. Mahomes it was
a little bit of a risk For andy to come
up there to number ten And brett each to come
up to. Ten BUT i, mean obviously the proof is
in the.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Pudding it has worked. Out, Okay So i'm going to
read my. NOTES i just wanted my notes the stuff
that people told me on. Him he had serious arm.
Talent he was really impressive on tape before the. Injury
sure he's careless with the, ball but he makes some
wild throws if you guys can. Make, plus he's athletic and.
Tough he would need some time to go into the
(17:49):
player that you wanted to, be but he could be
at start to the next. Level compared him to listen
to these two names we were talking, about go, Ahead
Matthew stafford And Jay. Cupp. Yeah then he, said another
guy told me physically he's a first round, talent but
you have to be patient for his talent to. Reach
his potential forces a lot of. Balls some of that
is having to do too much to make up for
(18:10):
What Texas tech lacks talent was he had to do
more to win shootouts in The big. Twelve his their
talent is on the lower end of the. Conference just
really really interesting to have two guys who are well
respected scouts tell me that back then and one for
me to keep that in my. Notes that is, Bananas
Like i'm trying To, Yeah march thirty or twenty, seventeen
(18:32):
that's when those texts came. In BUT i have. Him
this is a nice jump off point because in that
COMMENT i talked About Jay cutler And Matthew. Stafford Matthew
stafford just inc the deal that is. Phenomenal one year
extension fifty five million dollars that is worth up to
(18:52):
sixty million value with excentives thirty. Eight he is now
on the contract until twenty twenty. Seven he's coming off
IN mvp year when he had forty seven hundred, yards
forty six, touchdowns eight, interceptions and a one pH nine
point two passer. Rating so now this leads us to
top five quarterbacks going into twenty twenty. Five, Now, LANCE i,
(19:15):
MEAN i know we both have our, list BUT i
think it's hard not to put THE mvp at number
one When Matthew stafford is coming off that kind of.
Year so for, ME i Have Matthew stafford at number
one just because the, efficiency the, effectiveness the, playmaking the,
ability the explosive plays that passing game generates with him at.
QUARTERBACK i know he's almost, forty BUT i haven't seen
(19:39):
anybody play that kind of ball like that right, then
so right, Now AND i know in this new era
with all these new school, Quarterbacks i'm kind of going
with a, traditionalist an old school throwback In Matthew stafford
to be number one on my.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
List what do you? Think, YEAH i got him at
number one. TWO i mean it's hard and it's not
like he's we're basing this on a. YEAR i, Mean Matthew,
stafford this is a, long long. Run he's like, whin
he's getting he's getting better with, age AND i don't
see it. Changing like there's not any. Signs you know
a lot of times with, quarterbacks maybe you can see
(20:11):
some signs here or, there and every once in a
while the falloff would be precipitous, immediately like we saw
with With Peyton, manning where it was it just all
of a sudden went from fifty touchdown so like was
was almost a liability for The broncos the year they
won The Super bowl With Matthew. Stafford you, know it's
crazy because you. DON'T i don't see any. FALLOFF i.
(20:35):
Don't he looks the exact same as he's looked over
these last several years. Forty if, anything he's, well he's
looks substantially. Better this is the most impressive statistical campaign
he's ever. Had his touchdown to interception numbers are, exceptional
Like buck at thirty, seven there's No and remember he
(20:56):
had an arm issue coming into last season that we
didn't know if it would he. Properly wasn't the last
season or was was that the year he.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Had ye had, back he had. Arms he's had a
few different issues that. Awesome concerned that we thought he
may not even come back and play.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Again, yeah BECAUSE i remember The texans had In week
one and we Thought Matthew stafford may not even be
a factor In week. One AND i don't know at that,
time we didn't know THE mvp was taken on just
an absolute you, know hornets nest of a, defense uh
in that first week to start last. Year BUT i.
DON'T i don't Put johnny cum. Lately he's up lightly,
Right Drake. MAY i, MEAN i don't, WANNA i don't
(21:32):
wanna spoiler alert, you But i'm glad he had a
great year last. Year but we'll see if he makes
it on my top. Five But Matthew stafford is a
pedigree talent and he looks like he's playing his best
football right. NOW i have to put him at number one,
two respect for last. Year there's no REASON i think
there's a big fall off.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Coming, okay so number, two number, Two i'm gonna snake. It,
okay let's do.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
IT i Got i've Got Josh allen at number. Two
i'm looking at every everything we talked about With Josh.
ALLEN i, mean that's Why i'm plugging him in at number.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Two hey, look, Man i'm right there with. YOU i
have him at number, two AND i think what it
is right now For Josh, allen it's the overall threat
that he poses as a, run, pass playmaker inside outside the,
pocket twenty five, touchdowns ten, interceptions but what he does
on the ground and those guy to have it. Moments
And i'll say this LIKE i can't say that he
(22:22):
is coming off a spectacular year, statistically BUT i feel
like it might have been his best year in terms
of just the way that he willed this team to.
Victory AND i got a chance to see it in
the postseason walker. Around he took over the game against
The Jacksonville. Jaguars and what he's done IS i think
he's become a mature playmaker where he will run in
(22:42):
these WHAT i call it guy to have in, moments
third down and crucial red zone game on the, line
two minute, situation that's when he will take. Off he's
learned how to protect himself and not putting himself in
harm's way as, much but it's still. Dangerous and so
that's why to, me he's worthy of being number. Two,
Now nemesis comes right in after, me and That's Pat
(23:03):
mahomes at number. Three AND i know most TIMES i
would Say Pat mahomes is number, one but given the
knee injury and given maybe the fall off of the,
offense he kind of suffers because of. That but make
no mistake about, it this dude is a phenomenal. TALENT
i read off those notes from way. Back he has
exceeded all expectations when he came into the league a
(23:24):
unicorn at the position in terms of how he run
arounds and how he runs around makes. Plays he's BEEN
mvp a couple of. Times he's done it in The
Super bowl. Level he had The Kancity chiefs on a
remarkable run where they went the. Five all those things
that you demand from a. Quarterback he's checked off the.
Boxes it's just, now what is the bounce back like
coming off that knee and having to kind of flip
(23:46):
this roster as they try and get younger as their
stars age.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Out this is a tougher one for, me just because
it gets very subjective after the first couple AND i
went With mahomes out of out of respect FOR i
know who he can. BE i didn't want to hold
last year against. HIM i don't want to hold THE
acl against him this year BECAUSE i already know he's
gonna come back just as good as he. Was he
(24:11):
And Stroop Bob stroop is his. Trainer they do a
great job of getting after. It SO i think you
have to Put Pat mahomes there for everything that we've
seen as a, winner as a, playmaker his ability to command.
Games there's no reason to think he won't bounce. Back
he's not going to be in control of what is
around him and what surrounds him and She rice's issues
(24:34):
And Travis kelsey getting, older the offensive line being beat
up last. Year he has no control over. That as a.
Quarterback IF i wanted to stick a quarterback on any
team in the. League Pat mahomes is one of the
top three That i'm. Picking so that's WHY i Put pat.
Third number four is gonna probably surprise you a little.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Bit, okay this is WHERE.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I got a little bit. TOUGH i ended up going
With Jared goff and, yeah, yeah, Yeah Okay, joe and
he's not the most So i'm gonna tell you. Why
he kind of fell into it Because lamar has been
hurt and hasn't played at the same level the last
couple of. Years Joe, BURROW i gotta See Joe. BURROW
(25:16):
i got to See joe do it. Again, HONESTLY i
need to See joe do it. Again he's talking ABOUT
i don't, KNOW i LOVE i want to GET i
love football. Again i'm, like oh my, GOSH i can't
be doing, This. Joe i'm not ready to Put jalen.
There Jalen hurts. There i'm not Putting drake. There and
(25:36):
the REASON i said golf is because golf is just.
Steady he's not going to excite. You forty five hundred
yards the last four years he's played every, game he's
gonna show up forty five hundred yards passing every single.
Year he's going to average about seven point seven seven
point eight to. Pass he's over thirty, touchdown he averages
over thirty. Touchdowns you know his interception totals are relatively
(26:02):
low in terms of touchdown interception. Numbers he's JUST i
know What i'm getting From Jared. Goff, now the problem
Is Lamar jackson can win. Games Joe burrow can win
games for you when he's. On there's a few guys
that can win. Games but IF i went by the
idea That Pat, MAHOMES i can Stick Pat mahomes on any.
(26:23):
OFFENSE i feel like IF i Stuck Jared goff in any,
offense he's going to pretty much give me the same.
NUMBERS i, think in the same.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Consistency, look, MAN i give you a lot of credit
like that is a bold move to Put Jared goff up,
There AND i would say, this he's the most slept
on top eight quarterback in the, league like for the
consistency that he's put. Up AND i think the litmus
test was him going To, detroit where everybody thought he
was going To detroit to fall off in his, career
was going to die for him to flourish in that.
(26:50):
Moment now some people, say, eh But Ben, Johnson, Well
Ben johnson Wasn't Ben johnson When Jared goff got. THERE
i Mean Dan campbell eventually was taking over the plays
and handed it To Ben, johnson and Then Ben johnson
And Jerry goff got together and that offense. Exploded so
give him credit a, systematic surgical. PLAYMAKER i like. HIM
i don't have him in my top. FIVE i Got
(27:10):
Joe burrow in this. Spot and part of, THAT i
think is reputation for me With Joe burrow when he's
healthy and, available he And Jamar chase AND T higgins
like they're an unstoppable. Offense but you are, right it's
time for him to like put up a shut up.
Like he has played at a high level and they
have gone to Super bowls and those. Things some would
(27:31):
say they probably should have won the Super bowl if
not for a bad call down in the red. Zone
but they missed the playoffs the last three years and
at some point his lack of availability has been an.
Issue so he needs to be. Upright he needs to
be there and available for the seventeen games that they,
play and he needs to play at that. Level so
right now he gets a little bit of a pass for,
(27:52):
me BUT i have him at. Four at five for,
ME i feel like you're about to hate on my
guy From Chapel, hill But i'm gonna put him at
five BECAUSE i think people have a little recency buas
based on how he underperformed in the, playoffs and that
Is Drake. May Drake may look if the postseason doesn't cloud.
IT i Think Drake may had a strong case to
be THE. MVP i think it would have been hard
(28:13):
for him to be, named even though the votes are
done at the end of the regular. SEASON i think
it would have been hard for him to be NAMED
mvp after what we saw with our eyes in the.
Postseason but that's. It that shouldn't take away from the
fact he had over forty three hundred. Yards he had
thirty one, touchdowns eight. Interceptions The patriots came out of,
nowhere to be THE afc champion and to represent THE
afc in The Super, bowl and a lot of that
was due to his play and his performance throughout the regular.
(28:36):
Season he can operate inside and outside of the. Pocket
he can deal and delivered with surgical. Precision he has
the athleticism to make plays with his. Legs we talk
about the new, school the. Prototypes he is one of
those guys that we're going to talk about and celebrate
as a new school quarterback that is going to be
a perennial top five. Town you, Know.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I'm given And i've ADMITTED i Gave pat kind of
a pass just because it's not about it's it's him
as a. Talent And i'm not counting last year against.
Him someone would, say why are you Counting Joe burrow against?
Him because just the year last year against, him because
just the year before he had this five thousand yard passing.
Season you, Know joe had this incredible. Season it's the
(29:19):
injuries for, me For Joe, burrow it's it's IT'S i
want to See joe stay. HEALTHY i want to see
him win at a clip number Five i've got you, know,
really there's there's three names And i'm gonna And i'm gonna.
Throw i'm having a hard time With Joe, Burrow Lamar,
jackson And Dak prescott.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
And, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
DAK i Thought dak played really well last. Year the
year Before dak got, hurt he had he played eight,
games And dak has had his own issue with injuries at.
Times but two of the last three years When dak
has been fully, Healthy dak has taking his game to
another level as a. Passer he went out in corrected some,
things and you, know he went out and made changes
(30:03):
to his body, type made changes to his annis AND
i think it's Made you can tell he's worked on
his game over the years and he's become a much
better pocket. Passer that defense was so janky last year
that you didn't really he didn't really get the respect
he probably deserved for the season he had. OFFENSIVELY i
(30:24):
Think dak is right there knocking on the door With
joe And Lamar. Jackson and LIKE i, Said i've got
a bias against a two year player In Drake may
simply BECAUSE i want him to do it the third.
YEAR i want to have a good. Year i'm not
going to kill him for the postseason, stuff BUT i
do want to see another good strong year because they're
playing a much tougher schedule this. Year let's see how
(30:46):
you do against the best teams in the. League and
when we have this conversation in a, year he'll be
on my list more than.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Likely, okay who's next for? You who's the next? One
who's the guy the?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
BREAKOUT i, mean the next. Stamped the NEXT i stamped
was Is Lamar, jackson Over Joe burrow and Over Dak
AND i gave you those are those guys who are
fighting the fifth spot for, me Because GOFF i did
put it for AND i decided going With lamar just
BECAUSE i know he. CAN i know he can make
(31:19):
plays and win games for you. Individually AND i Know
lamar got hurt last, year AND i know he was
hurt for a time during his you, know during HIS nfl.
Career but over the last few years he's actually been relatively.
Healthy he has not had the same amount of. Injuries
(31:41):
for What i'm going to his numbers right, now he
had in uh in sixteen and, seventeen twenty six and twenty,
seven both of those years he was much. Healthier he's
coming off with forty one touchdown performance last. Year we
know it wasn't as. Good look the ARGUMENTS i make
Against Joe, burrow you could make Against Lamar jackson if
you wanted. To you could make to a lesser extent
(32:02):
Against Dak, prescott who has missed some time as. Well
it's JUST i can't Put herbert. THERE i JUST i
can't do. It I'm i'm tired of everyone just Putting
herbert on the pedestal when he hasn't done enough in the.
Postseason you got to do it in the. Postseason i'm
not feeling it With Jared love If i'm being. Honest
Dalen hurts has no momentum coming into this season in my,
(32:23):
opinion and the Guy i'd love to put in, there
BUT i gotta see him doing it. Again As Caleb,
WILLIAMS i Think caleb's starting to show he's got some,
stuff like the things we thought we knew about him
in the REGULAR i mean and coming into the into
the draft when he was drafted in what was at twenty.
FOUR i saw some of that stuff flash last, Year
(32:44):
So i'm not so sure that he's not in this
conversation hot and heavy next.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Year, look SEE i know this And i'm disappointed even
in all the honorable mentioned names that you. Have, no, no, no, no,
no a lot of a lot of honorable mentioned. Names
but BUT i know what this. Is this is that
h town bias that you'll have against my guy who is,
next which Is Trevor. Lawrence Trevor lawrence has to be
in this conversation in terms of being. Next i'm just
(33:10):
looking at the. Numbers four thousand, yards twenty nine, touchdowns tever,
interceptions and i know what everyone's, Saying, oh, look he's
the guy who hasn't done, anything but everyone loves him
because he was number one overall. Pick But i'm, saying
it's a different it's a Different Trevor. Lawrence it's just
a Different Trevor lawrence that is. Coming this dude scored
thirty eight touchdowns last. Year he gets With liam Kin
(33:32):
Liam korn will tell you that two Areas trevor has
to improve upon to be one of those top five.
GUYS i would say one is the completion percentage has
to go. Up you can't complete six percent of your.
Passes you got to get that up to sixty seven
percent in this. League against the amount of soft coverage
that you, see you have to be able to dow
with more consistency in terms of delivering short intermediate. Passes that's.
(33:54):
One the other part is the overall. Efficiency twelve interceptions
is a lot in this. Game when we rattled off
those numbers for those guys at the, top then single.
Digits if he lowers the, interceptions his passer rating goes
up well over one. Hundred and we have Seen drake
may WHO i talked about one thirteen passer rating because
he took care of the. Ball so it's that fine
(34:15):
line between being aggressive and. Reckless once he learns how
to straddle that, line man disguise the. Limits So i'm
telling you right now we revisit. This you guys can
clip it and put it on the thing when we
come back next year at this time and talk about these.
Quarterbacks my man number, Sixteen Trevor lawrence is going to
be in there Because Liam korn at, offense they got around.
Him he's ready to take the jump to be one
(34:36):
of those elite quarterbacks in this.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
League, LISTEN i just got to put context on. This
So bucky. Done fool. Y'all what are we talking? About, well,
Listen Bucky's bucky's trying to use a slider hand on
your card. Trick he's he's pulling his. Uh he's that
old School David blaine stuff where he tracks himself on
an ice cube or something like. That, Listen i'm gonna
run through the game. Log these are the last six
(34:59):
games For Trevor. Lawrence, okay here's who he. Played tennessee,
twice a broke Down indianapolis team, twice The, jets and
then of course At, denver and that's a Good denver.
Team he had three, touchdowns no. Interceptions shout, Out Trevor.
LAWRENCE a good game for him Against. Tennessee in the
first game, too you, know two twenty, nine two, touchdowns no,
interceptions The, colts they were a wounded, dog two touchdowns on.
(35:23):
Interceptions The. Jets three thirty five, touchdowns no, Interceptions. Broncos
shout out two seventy, nine three and zero against The
colts at The colts the second time, Around, bucky you remember,
this two sixty, three no, touchdowns one, interception and then
he finished off the the Woeful titans with two fifty
five three. Touchdowns so he had fifteen touchdowns and one
(35:44):
interception over his last six. Games but those those Were
tennessee In indianapolis, twice The jets And.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Denver SO i, mean mean what it sounds. Like it
sounds Like Jalen bruston in The. Knicks that's what it sounds.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Like he was on.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Fire he was on. Fire AND i just think that's
gonna continue. On LIKE i hear what we're, saying.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
You're, saying he's the landry ship met of THE Afc, south,
Whatever Michale bridges of THE Afc.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
South every TIME i look out AND i see those
teams with those logos, whatever there's a LITTLE nfl shield
on their. Jersey THE nfl, TEAMS nfl, players he can't.
Help he cannot help who runs out the other end
of the. Tunnel he just got to give them the
business like he gave. Them AND i think he's gonna
give a lot of teams the. Business when we talk
about how he ends up as a top five quarterback.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
And me all jokes, aside one of my highest draft
Grades i've ever put out there was On Trevor, lawrence
AND i got a lot of respect for For Liam.
Cohen Liam cohen what he's done at The rams and
then At kentucky and then back to The, rams and
then now With jacksonville With Trevor, LAWRENCE i mean legitimate quarterback.
WHISPERER i Think Liam cohen is one of those. GUYS
(36:55):
i know we do it With Ben johnson a, lot
BUT i think you got to start doing with you
have to start doing it with With Liam cohen as.
Well it looks like that if If trevor plays well
again this next year and starts to, solidify you, know
the potential of who we thought he, was if he
shows that that's who he's, becoming or even a variation of,
that Then Liam cohen's gonna deserve a lot of credit for.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
That, well, look, man you know who deserves a lot of,
Credit my Man alz for coming on and helping me
sort out these top five, quarterbacks helping me kind of
have a debate and an argument About Aaron rodgers And
John elway and overall just being a great dude to
come on and chat some. Balls so later in the
week we'll be back On move The sticks to discuss
some more news and notes in THE nfl from a
(37:37):
Scoutacher sell until next, Time i'm Bucking. Brooks that's A
lz where
Hosts And Creators
Daniel Jeremiah
Bucky Brooks
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