Bucky Brooks is joined by NFL.com colleague and offensive line subject matter expert Nick Shook on this edition of Move the Sticks. The MTS duo covers the evolution of offensive line play at the highest level, rising rookies and star linemen on new teams in 2026. Then, Shook delivers his top five offensive line units heading into the 2026 NFL season, which includes the Steelers, Broncos, Rams, Bills and Eagles — in no particular order.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Was that football world.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I am Buckey Brooks say that is my man. Nick
Shook over here joining me on move the sticks?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Nick?
Speaker 3 (00:09):
What is going on? How you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I'm doing fantastic, Buck. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
I think this might be the first I've ever been here,
and I'm very excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
That's that's good.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
We won't make it your last time when it comes
to being on the pod. Look, I know you are
the person that we love to go to when it
comes to offensive lines and those things. But before we
even talked about the offensive line, I wonder what fascinates
you most when you're looking at old line, Like, why
have you dug so deep into the offensive line?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
I mean, that's what I played when I played, and
so it's what I know best. I understand the intricacies
of it and what is required of these guys. But
I think once you get to the really collegiate and
in the NFL level, is really we get the supreme athletes,
especially as the as football continues to push toward more
getting basketball players former basketball players playing tight end or
playing tackle. Right, Like you think about the Lane Johnson types,
(01:00):
and so you see these supreme athletes who are also
three hundred plus pounds who are able to move, and
the technicalities that you need to be so good at
this position, I think is very overlooked because these guys
aren't touching the football, so you know, the common fan
doesn't look at them and think about those things. But
there's so many intricacies that they have to get to know,
and seeing those guys do that at a at a
(01:20):
high level, like true excellence, just gets me fired up. Man.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I love seeing a guard pool.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
You know, it's a long pool kicking out the end
and we're opening up a big running lane because everybody's
celebrating the touchdown run. But I'm celebrating the guy who
nailed the end, sealed it off, and created the alley
for the touchdown run.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Now, it's interesting that you brought up like the basketball
like athletes, you brought up guys like Lane Johnson and
those things. I believe the position has changed so much
and it continues to evolve because we kind of have
this ying and yang where we go back from the
zone base blockers, the guys that are super athletic but
they may be a little lighter, to the rogue graders
(01:57):
that may play in pinn and pool systems, garpool power
coming downhill. When you look at today's game, where do
you feel like the league is trending when it comes
to O line play and the schematics that has showcase
what some of these old office alignemen do.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
I think we're getting further away from the road greater
types of the classic like bulkier alignment, and we're getting
more towards the moving guys because the zone scheme has
become so popular over the last fifteen or twenty years. Right,
we still get some of those traditional schemes, those pin
and pools, right, the power schemes, but more often than not,
we're worried about guys being able to get off the
first level, get to the second level and really create
(02:34):
explosive plays. So I feel like it kind of began
with the tackles because as the edge rushing, you know,
landscape blossomed over the last ten years or so and
it became such an important position the offense had to
have accounter to that, which is why you got the
more athletic tackles that are able to you know, stay
in front of those guys. But then you move to
the interior and we see less of the big power guys.
Now you still get like the rare combo between the two.
(02:56):
You get the Quenton Nelson type that's a combo between
the two. But I think about this year's draft class.
Van guyone one of my favorite guys in this draft,
moves really well for his size, but it's still built
like a classic road grader. You get less of those
guys than you have in previous years. So I think
we're going to continue to see more of the fluid athletes,
which look. Man, when I'm sitting in Luke Soil Stadium
(03:17):
at the Combine and I'll watch these guys go through
the drills. Every once in a while, you see a
guy who just moves differently and I'm like, there, it
is right there.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
That's the future of the league.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, it's so funny. You talk about the future the
league and I go back to tackles. It used to
be where the left tackle was the premier position. That
was the super athlete, that was the one who was
like Superman, being able to kind of snuff out the
elite pass rushers, and the right tackle was viewed as
the road grader. He was the one that was not
as mobile, not as nimble, it didn't matter because most
(03:47):
teams are right handed.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
They were going to run the ball on that side.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I worked in Carolina and John Fox was one of
the first guys that would take the premiere pass rusher
and put him at left defensive end. He did that
with Michael Straighthand in New York, and then he did
it with Julius Peppers with the Carolina Panthers. Having seen
the evolution of the position, do you naw view right
tackle and left tackle the same? Do you think they
should be interchangeable or do you still see a differentiation
(04:14):
between who is a right tackle and someone's the left.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Tack We're as close to them being the same as
we've ever been, I think, and especially over the last
few years. I look at this draft class, I think
about the kid from Arizona State, Maxi and Nottra right like,
this is the guy who played right tackle his entire
career at Arizona State. That's all the film you have
on him, and yet he's still going to a team
that kind of already had a right tackle in Troy Fatanho.
(04:39):
They felt confident enough because I think that that it's
that valuable you're gonna look at penay Sewell moving from
right tackle to left tackle this year for the Lions.
Some people are concerned about that, I understand, but he's
built to do it. And then I think about Tristan
Wurf's a guy who came out of Iowa playing right
tackle for the majority of his career is now one
of the best left tackles in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
But even he said come out of college that.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
It's pretty difficult to make that switch from right to left. Well,
he's done it, and I think it proves that now
not only can guys make that transition, but the value
is the same because of what you just described. It's
all about that chess match. Defense has got ahead of
the offenses, and now we're getting to that point where
we're about even and I think I love to see
it because then you look at you know, like Lane Johnson,
(05:21):
like the best right tackle in football for a long time,
going to be in the.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Fifteen years ago, nobody's worried about that guy because he's
going to go move to left tackle because it was
very valuable.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Now they're equally valuable.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
No, it's really funny to think they have Lane Johnston
one side, Jordan Mayauta on the other side. Do you
think about the athleticism that they have. In fact, the
Eagles offensive line in general had been a goal stand
for a long time. When it comes to where they
were able to plug and play people there, Jeff Stalin
had a lot to do with that. You talked about guards,
and you talked about fewer teams are going after those
(05:54):
rogue graders on the interior. Do you see it as
because before we were talking about positional value, and Quentin
Nelson was the anomaly being a guy that was selecting
in the top ten, really selected like early at an
interior blocker position. Do you see that position also changing
in terms of how people value them and when they
(06:16):
will select them.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Yes, I do, although I don't think it's going to
happen as quickly as we saw the value of right
tackle skyrocket. And I think Ione was a good example
of that in this year's class, which is that he
was clearly the guy, the interior guy, at least in
my opinion, I had him going I think as high
as eleventh or twelfth in my mock draft. He went
a little bit later than that, and I firmly believe
that the value is just that important. Now that's conditional,
(06:40):
because if you have a greater need to tackle, you're
still going to take a tackle, which is why I
think it's going to continue to go at a little
bit slower of a rate. But the one thing we're
not maybe looking at as much. And if we go
back over the last I don't know, fifteen twenty, I
think back like when Jeff Faine was the first round
pick coming out of Notre Dame. Right like, center is
the position that a lot of people don't pay attention to,
but we all often talk about them being the quarterback
(07:01):
of the offensive line, making the calls, getting the protection,
set everything else. That is probably still a little bit
further ahead than guard because of its it's importance at
the center of the offensive lot.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, no, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
So teller lendimam right, like there was a big to
do about him switching from one spot in Baltimore going
to Las Vegas. There's probably some buyers, well, some regret
in terms of the Ravens losing him because they were
talking about fair market value and what they thought and
obviously the Rats went above and beyond.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
But I do believe you're onto something.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
When it comes to centers and their value, we always
just talk about how important they are because it's communication position,
and a good center can alleviate the pressure on the quarterback.
They have to make all the calls and all the
adjustments and identify everything when it comes to it. What
else are we missing about the growing importance in terms
(07:52):
of the center in the NFL landscape.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Well, I think he made a great point there, which
is that, look, we live in the league in which
patience has no ever been thinner than it is now,
especially at the quarterback position. How do you help a
young quarterback get acclimated and take a little bit off
of his plate then by lining him up behind a
center who is skilled at setting those protections and making
sure that all five of those guys are in the
right spot at the right time against that front. We're
(08:15):
gonna make sure, Hey, we're gonna block it this way.
We're gonna pick up the blitz of this happens. Ma,
we've got a slide left, me, We've got a slide right.
Maybe it's a bit of a half slide. There's a
lot of intricacies there. That's a lot on the quarterback's
shoulders when he's also got to take the snap, deal
with the higher level of speed at the NFL level
and find the right guy open. There's so much on
that young kid's plate, not to mention the pressure of
being the hope of this franchise. Often is the case
(08:38):
with this position. Makes a little bit easier when you
have a center who's really good at handling that part.
And I think that's the value that often goes overlooked
but is pretty obvious when you put the right guy
in front of a young quarterback. I'm looking at Miami,
Aaron Brewer at Miami and Malik Willis. I can't wait
to see how that pairing works and if Malie can
actually take the next step, even if the team around
him isn't as talented as it was in Green Bay
(08:59):
because of the presence of a guy like Aaron Brewer.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah, really underrated when it comes to their value, what
they do at the.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Point of attack.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I remember being in Kansas City and playing when they
had really, I mean a magnificent into your three. You're
talking about wheel shields, Tim Grunnard, Jeff Slot just being
able to just make it happen on the inside, and
it was so vital and Marty Schettenhammer was standing from
the room and like, it doesn't matter who we have.
As long as we got those three, doesn't matter who's
(09:32):
the running back, we will be okay because they can
control it. And we are seeing more teams get away
with maybe lesser talented running backs because the offensive line
is so good. And then the other part of that
is how important is it for the scheme to really
match the kind of personnel that you have in front
(09:53):
of the quarterback and the running back.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Yeah, that latter part is especially important, and I think
as offenses continue to evolve, we're going to see the
importance of that only increase. But it's funny because the
way you describe it, we often spend so much time
talking about tackles because they have to face these edge rushers. Well,
what's the quickest way to the quarterback. It's through the
center of the offensive line. It's through the a gap.
That is an essential part of your front five is
making sure that those guys are in sync. When you
(10:16):
see veterans who have played multiple years together and that
are at an averager better skill level, you often see
some of the most cohesive offensive lines in the NFL,
and you can do a lot with that, based on
your scheme, of course, but you can usually do a lot.
And it starts with the ground game because if you
guys are all on the same page and you're executing consistently,
you can get the ground game going. You could take
a little bit of pressure off of the pass rush
(10:37):
and everything else, and when you look at that larger picture,
we go back to the simplest rules of offensive line play,
which is inside out. Like if you're just on a
zone path, it's inside man across your face, and then
forward right. So that begins with those three interior guys,
them moving almost as a unit in the running game,
being able to work together in tandem in the pass
(10:59):
blocking game, and it just makes everything else stronger to
where then maybe it's not as important to have a
top tier tackle and it makes everything just work a
little bit better.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, it does make everything just work better. And we
are seeing more teams kind of commit to that. And
I think about the Seattle Seahawks and how individually you
may not view any of those guys as a star,
but collectively that unit plays really really well. Before we
start talking about like these groups, because I didn't have
(11:28):
you on like before the draft or right after the draft.
We talked about marriages and fits in scheme. Who are
some of the players, the rookies that you saw get
drafted that you believe they are perfectly suited to go
where they ended up being selected.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
That's a good question, I thought, you know, I was
thinking about veg a Ione. Where do I want him
to go? And I for a long time wanted him
to go to Baltimore because I just felt like it
was the perfect fit for his style, right, And so
I'm looking at it and I'm thinking, all right, where
is this going to land?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
How is this all going to work out? Boom?
Speaker 4 (12:02):
He goes to Baltimore, And I'm just like, that is
the guy. And look, I know I talked about him already,
but that is a guy who moves really well for
his size, but he's also a crushing, devastating blocker. And
the way that the Ravens now they're obviously, you know,
operating in a different offense to the new coaching staff,
but the way that they love to get Dereck Henry Downhill,
I just felt like that was the perfect fit in
a draft in which the Ravens just made multiple this
(12:23):
makes logical sense picks. That was the best one of
this entire group. I also think about Spencer final and
the way that the Browns were able to move from
six to nine to get him. I thought that it
was important that they continued to build out their tackle position,
especially as they rebuilt this offensive line. And I'm very
curious to see how he's going to fit in because
he's not like an overwhelming tackle necessarily, but he's very
fundamentally sounds. He's pretty stout, you know, he doesn't really
(12:46):
make a lot of mistakes, and I think that's going
to be very important as they try to continue to
rebuild this offense, you know, depending on who plays quarterback there.
I think that's just going to be really effective because
as you know, we're going to talk about some of
these groups, I was diving into the numbers and I
know what the tape told me, but then it went
and looked at the numbers and I was like, Yeah,
the Brown's offensive line was bad in pretty much every
category last year, and that's with a lot.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Of returning starters.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
And so I think an identity change was necessarily along
with the coaching change, and part of that identity change
is reinvesting your offensive line. So very curious to see
how he fits in there.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah, curious to see. Look, he was one of my favorites.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Both of the guys that we've talked about, Ione and Phenol,
they were guys that I was really high on.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
And I know there was a weird discussion leading into
the draft about what do you take them? What's the value?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I don't know if they're the best guys, but to
me and I said this, and I felt like IONI
was the best offensive alignment in the draft period, and
if we weren't caught up on positional value, he should
have been the first one selected as a top ten pick.
And the same could be said for Spencer Berno. I
want to transition because you mentioned the groups, and you
mentioned the Cleveland Browns and how they were bad. I
(13:48):
do kind of want to pick your brain on like
some of the top five groupings that we have in
the league, and we can go from five to one,
we can go from one to five. I'll let you choose,
but give me a group that you're either really high on.
What you're saying is in the top five, So which
way you.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Want to get?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Let's let's go from five to one. How about that.
Let's say the best for last, right, Okay.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
You got a number five, all right.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
So I was a little conflicted on this because I
had a few teams in mind. Four, number five, I
had a even you know, in my notes wrote down
a group of honorable mentions, but all of them have
question marks in one way or another. I'm going with
the Buffalo Bills, and the reason is there's a lot
of continuity on this offensive line. They did lose David Edwards, right,
they got to replace him with Alec Anderson, But that's
a guy who has a good amount of reps done,
(14:29):
like he's prepared to step in this opportunity. A lot
of the time he played was a tackle. Now he's
gonna have to shift the guard. But I'm really not
worried about that transition. This is a group that also
propelled the league's leading rusher in James Cook last year.
That doesn't just happen, you know, by mistake. This is
a group that obviously benefits from playing in front of
Josh Allen, which makes them more unpredictable because they always
(14:50):
have to account for the past and the run.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
But that's not.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Really like an excuse or get out of jail free card.
When it comes to performing, you still have to execute well.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
And they have.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
You know, they have a new offensive line coach with
this group, but you can't argue with the numbers. They
were eighth and pressure rate allowed. They created two rushing
yards before contact per run last year, which is like
one of the league's best, and obviously that's what helped
propel James Cook. But yeah, I'm not as trusting in
it as I might be with some of these other
offensive lines, just because of minor changes and because they're
(15:21):
getting little bit older at tackle on both sides. But
the history is there, and even with the coaching staff change,
I think they're STI gonna be one of the best
offensive lines in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, Look, I think they have an opportunity to be
really good, and I think Joe Brady can even enhance
them more by utilizing two and three tight ends, like
he's kind of leaned into Donkin k Dawson Knox. They
have a few other guys that they can throw in there,
like when they go to those heavy personnel packages.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
It masks some of the deficions you talked about with
the older.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Offensive tackles, but allows them to kind of play big
boy football where they can run it and also protect
Josh Allen. The Buffalo Bills are one of those teams
that people are talking about a lot of eyes on
them re emerging as a title contender in the wake
of maybe a controversial firing. But if job Brady is
able to kind of enhance what they are already do
at the line of scrimmage, the Buffalo Bills could.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Be cooking and cooking with gas. Who's number four in
your list?
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Number four is going to be the Los Angeles Rams
because I love what they have in their starting four.
Now they are changing the right tackle Rob Havenstein retired,
but if you look at it, Warren mclinnon actually started
more games in the position there last year than Havenstein did,
so he's also another guy who's prepared to take over.
But they're starting for with Jackson, Avila, Shelton and Dotson, which,
(16:35):
by the way, Kevin Dotson, what a great transition from
Pittsburgh to the Rams and just what he's been able
to do with this team at right guard.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I love that group.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Another offensive line that was owns some responsibility for producing
one of the most explosive offenses in the NFL last year,
another group that's stellar with numbers fourth and pressure rate
allowed another two yards per carry created before contact and
a top five run stuff right, which means they just
weren't letting guys into the backfield to shut down their
runs very often. It explains a lot of why Matthew
Stafford had success and Kyraen Williams had success and.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
The rest of this group. I would have really liked
to see them spend their first.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Rounder this year on an offensive lineman. I was really
hoping it was going to be like someone like Malanoa
from Miami or maybe even you know, reach a little
bit with Ian Ocher. But if this is the way
they feel that, you know, they're comfortable with everything else,
that's fine.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I'm happy with it.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
They did give mc cleanon enough looks in the last
couple of years to get him prepared for this job,
and he graded out pretty well too, So I'm just
the one thing that I'm always curious about is this
is a position group across the league that is very
hard to replicate success from one year to the next,
whether it's because of injury, because of turnover elsewhere. I
want to see if they can do it again. But
what I've seen over the last couple of years from them,
(17:46):
I've been very impressed, and that's why they're fourth on
my list.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, you talk about coninuity trying to be able to
replicate it because it is such a unique position. It's
not about just having the five most talented players. It's
about the five that can work together and obviously been
in those rooms and played the position in those things
like the connectivity is everything, and the only way you
really can get connected is spending time together.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
On and off the field.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
And one of the things that you have to do
when you scouting is you're measuring him, weighing those personality
types and how they kind of blend in.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
And when I think about the rams and how.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
The pieces of the puzzle will fit together, it's not
only the chemistry that works, but the complimentary nature of
their games. It works, and Sean McVay has done a
great job of making sure heat enhances what they do
with the schematics that play behind it.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
At three, who do got okay?
Speaker 4 (18:34):
So this is where I had a little bit of
a tough time because I have valued this offensive line as.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
One of the best in the NFL for the last
three to five years.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
They occupy a place that it's a rare air for me.
I was once occupied by the cults of last decade,
like right when they first got Quentin Nelson and they
had a really strong five and they were running the
ball well and everything was working well for them. And
I am conflicted on this because I don't think they're
quite as good as they were a couple of years.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Ago, but they're still really good.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
And it's because of the offensive line coach who has
since departed, but is you know, revered for what he's
done in turning lesser known guys into you know, all pros.
It's Jeff Stallin and it's the Philadelphia Eagles. They don't
have him anymore, although he may still be involved in
some capacity, so I'm a little bit concerned about that.
But this is a group that's built on the strength
of tackles. I think this is the best tackle tantum
in the NFL. With Jordan Mylott at left tackle Lane
(19:23):
Johnson at right. You want Lane Johnson to come back
and have a healthy season, which could be his last,
which is also why I wanted to spend them to
spend their first round pick on a guy like Blake
Miller as a succession plan. That's not where they went obviously,
and it's a group that really depended on the strength
of its interior, you know, as a compliment to those tackles.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
A couple of years ago.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
I think about when mckhai Beckton came over and made
the switch to guard, and suddenly he was a very
effective guard, and you know, ended up getting a contract
with the Chargers and they had to replace him. Tyler
Stein comes in there. They've had some injury issues with
Landon Dickerson and Cam Jurgens on the interior, but those
two guys, Jurgens at center and Dickerson and left guard,
especially Dickerson, still make a really good pairing there. Now,
(20:01):
Jurgens has not quite maybe lived up to the expectation
that comes with being Jason Kelsey's successor, but I still
think he's been largely good enough to keep this group solid.
And we go back two years. How do you explain
Saquon Barkley's two thousand yard season. You look at that
offensive line on how well they execute their many responsibilities,
turning a rugby player into one of the better left
tackles in the NFL, and Jordan Malatta was a feather
(20:24):
in Stotland's cap and something that I think most teams
wouldn't be able to do because it would require patients
and continuous teaching, which in expert level teaching. But they
did it and that's really why they're so strong as
a group. I need them to stay healthier. I'm a
little bit concerned about depth, but as it stands right now,
going into Week one, if they're all out there, I.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Still feel very good about the Phildelphia Eagles.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, they're one to better groups, saying going all the
way back to Andrey's days, they always invested heavily in
the trenches. They are going to use a first or
second round pick on someone in the trenches. They had
a great developmental plan. And when I watched this team
a few times live, if you ever get a chance
to watch their pregame routine and how they work their
offensive lit I mean it basically like they're having practiced
(21:06):
before the game.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Everybody's out there practice squad players, their top players, their starters.
They go through it. Now.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Stoutland was running that and so we'll see how much
it changes with you when he departs. But the Philadelphia Eagles,
not only the investment, but their commitment to the development
of their offense a lot has been one of the
reasons why they've always been in that conversation over the
last few years. You're right, man, the Eagles are right there,
closed with no cigar, but they certainly are one of
(21:34):
the top units in the game.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Who's next to number two?
Speaker 4 (21:37):
That's funny too that you mentioned that pregame because covering
the Eagles in the Super Bowl a couple times over
the last four it's been one of my favorite things
is on the field. Just sit and stand down there,
just enjoy that because it takes me back because like
a lot of you know, a lot of teams just
go through the motions, right, they don't go through the motions.
I'm like, oh yeah, we're cracking little pads here.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Let's go. I like this, you get these guys ready.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
This is how you're supposed to get ready for a game,
right here. Hit that face mask a couple of times.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
No, but yeah, they've I mean, they do a really
good job, and I think more teams should kind of
steal the idea.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I've never seen anything like that. I stood there.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
My jaw dropped when I watched how they went through it,
and Stalin is an og but to see how they
develop and to see how far they come, I certainly
after watched him in pregame, understood how Joey Mylotta went
from being a rugby player to one of the top
tackles in the league.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Exactly, exactly, all right.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
At number two, I got the Steelers, and I got
to give a tip of the captain GMO Mark Cohn,
because three or four years ago this was a bad
group just across the board was a bad group, and
they invested repeatedly through the draft in their offensive line.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
It all starts with center.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Zach Frasier, I think has become one of the better
centers in the NFL and a guy that a lot
of people probably overlooked a little bit when he was
coming out of college. And you build out from there.
Mason McCormick has been solid. Troy Fatanu took a huge
step in development from year one to year two with
the Steelers last year, and now he's got a challenge
in front of him. Obviously, if he's gonna move to
the left side, we'll see if they do that or not.
(23:00):
But if they do move him to the left side,
it opens up the door for Ian Osher to come
in and try to earn a starting spot. If they
gave him on the right side, then it's a test
of Broderick Jones and can he actually become the left
tackle that you thought he was going to be when
you spent a draft pick on him. But what I
love about that is you have options. This is a
team that's not afraid to invest in the trenches. They
understand what AFC North football is, and it's especially important
when you have a forty two year old quarterback and
(23:22):
Aaron Rodgers back there who gets the ball out fast
than anybody else in the NFL, because he knows if
he doesn't and the blitz does get home, then there's
going to be problems.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
That's helped them with their numbers.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
They're a little bit inflated, I think because of that
because they just got the ball out so quickly to
the pressure rate is naturally going to be lower. But
as a group starting five, I just love what they've
been able to do. Jalen Warren's development, I think is
tied to that, and I'm excited to see where they
go this season in another off seas in which I
think they made, you know, wise, small improvements in the offense.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
We'll see if they.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Can continue to gel and see how that tackle situation
shakes up. But again, I love that they have options.
That's why they're my number two group.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
They only have options, and I think they should be
applauded for the pick. People that talk about, well, they
were at a period they were going to take Makaile Lemon,
but they didn't get him. They got Max Ahnachur. They're
able to kind of plug him in if needed. Roger
Jones it's coming off an injury. We'll see if he
comes back. They have decisions to make on whether to
keep him based on his status as the first round
(24:20):
pick and fifth year options in those things. But regardless,
the Stealers have provided enough insurance where they can make
sensible decisions when it comes to their personnel up front,
and they can do it while eventually breaking in a
new quarterback. Right now, they're able to kind of operate
with the training wheels of Aaron Rodgers behind him. But
next season they're gonna have to have a young guy
(24:40):
and they are going to have to be able to
protect them right now the pieces look great in terms
of putting the pieces of the puzzle together to protect them.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
We'll see how they continue to grow.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Who's number one Number one is? You know, I think
we're in a weird situation right now in the NFL
where there's no like dominant and clear answer for the
top offensive line in the NFL, because usually you get
some star power when you try to name your top
offensive line, or usually you have such an explosive offense
(25:11):
that you can point to the offensive line and say, hey,
this is why this is the best group in the NFL.
They work incredibly well together and they've propelled this great unit.
I couldn't really necessarily say that about the Denver Broncos entirely,
but that's a very good group that is greater than
the sum of its parts. Now, of course, you have
some star power out there. You've got Garrett Bowles, a
guy who has really, over the course of his career,
(25:31):
developed into one of the better tackles in the NFL.
You've got Quinn Miners, who arguably one of the best
guards in the NFL, if not the best, he's one
of the best guards in the NFL. And you have
the rest of this group that's kind of worked together
to become a cohesive unit, and it's one that's really
aided by Sean Payton in the way that he gets
creative offensively. We talked about bo Nick's rookie year and
how often he was moving him out of the pocket
(25:52):
where he was often at his best, which is where
he was at his best during his time at Oregon.
You didn't quite see that as much.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Earlier in the season.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
Last year, it started to pick up down the back half.
And it all has to do with that offensive line
being able to move the pocket, being able to keep things,
you know, the variety up with the style that you're
approaching with, whether it's the running game, whether it's the
screen game, whether it's getting your quarterback out on the
role to get you know, the ball out in time
and away from some pressure. They can do all of
that really well. And when you watch them run in
(26:19):
more traditional fashions, when they're just trying to run between
the tackles, they execute that really well too. It's just
that sometimes that gets lost in the shuffle. My big
thing for them, and it has nothing to do with
the offensive line. The last two years, I've felt like
the one position they haven't addressed as a team is
running back, and I would love to see what they
could do with a truly dynamic number one running back.
They really don't have that with this team. But you
(26:41):
look at RG Harvey's success last year, and you have
to credit the offensive line for that. You know, you
go watch their highlight film and often it's them springing
Harvey for big runs. I would love to see what
they did with a more dynamic, stronger running back necessarily
or somebody that's just more of a household name. But
as it stands right now, Look, you don't get to
the AFC title game with a second year of quarterback
without a great offensive line like that.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
And they're a fantastic group.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, they are a fantastic group, and haven't washed them
up close and personal, I'll say, man, their ability to
control the line of scrimmage, the ability to spring holes
for anybody that they put in the backfield, And you're right,
if they had a more dynamic or a running back
with star power, we really would give them a lot
of credit for their dominance at the point of attack.
But the way they keep bo Knicks upright, I find
(27:24):
it interesting that Bo Nicks is at his best running
the two minute drill. They're running the two minute drill
going fast. They have athletic people in front of him.
He's able to get them to move and those things.
They've just really assembled a well balanced, complimentary front five
that allows them to live in either world. Pass heavy,
run heavy. They can do it both. But as a
(27:45):
testament to those guys and the ability to win their
individual matchups but also collectively dominate at the point of attack.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of any time that a
team can go take a Chris Peterson Arrow Washington offensive
lineman and turn him into one of you key parts
of your offensive line.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
And Luke Wattenberg is that for them.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Far from the only one I think about, like a
Roger rosen Garden elsewhere, but it was a program that
really produced some high end offensive lineman for a good
period of time, especially at the back half of the
twenty tens. And you can get those types of players
into your system and then get them acclimated and make
them a key part of what you're doing, and then
you surround them with other guys like you know the
ones we mentioned with with bowls with miners and oh
(28:24):
by the way, veteran Mike McGlinchey, a guy and who
played most of his career in San Francisco, who maybe
wasn't the favorite of some forty nine ers fans, but
comes in there and really has a great second act
of his career. It's just a really fun group to
get behind.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
No, it's a really fun group to get behind. You
have a lot of hopes and expectation because man, both
Nixon is healthy. Maybe they are the AFC representative right
in the Super Bowl last year, but they have to
play it all over and see if they can get
back there. I got asked which was the hardest decision,
Which was the hardest unit to leave on the cutting
(28:57):
room floor?
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Okay, so I would say the Colts, And the big
question is what the situation is at right tackle with them.
This is a team that going in I think two
off seasons ago, we were really concerned about the departures
and how they were going to effect a group that
really wasn't as good as it should have been.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Well, they've exceeded expectations since then.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Obviously, your left side with Ryman and Nelson really you know,
establishes that. But one of my combined favorites is Tanner Bordolini. Yeah,
he's now been a big part of them at center,
mac on Caalvis at right guard as well. The question
is what are you doing to right tackle you you
have Jalen Travis. Is that your answer?
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Long term? That's the one area of concern for me.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
So but again, they propel another great rushing attack with
Jonathan Taylor when he's healthy, still one of the best
home run hitters in the NFL. And if it wasn't
for the injuries that they suffered at quarterback last year
with Daniel Jones, you know, people might be holding them
in higher regards.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
So it's them.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I also think the Cowboys deserve more love than they've gotten.
That's another team that's really repeatedly invested in the offensive line.
They've moved guys around when they've had to. I mean,
I think we completely forget the fact that like Tyron
Smith was there for the longest time and is no
longer there, because it seemed like every other year they
were drafting somebody else. And the last group that needs
to be better than it was last year. And I
believe in their potential if everything goes right as the
(30:09):
Detroit Lions, one of the best offensive lines of two
years ago that have dealt with injuries and a lack
of depth really hurt them last year as well as
some departures. You know, you had Taylor Decker asking for
his release, in Frank ragnow retiring, trying to unretire that
didn't work out. They've had to deal with a lot
of changes over the last couple of years while still
trying to be among the NFC's heavy hitters. I'm curious
to see if they can take a good step forward
(30:30):
this year after taking a couple of steps back last year.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yeah, man, I liked at Trio.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
I mean, when you think about the in and Outlis
Colts to Dallas Cowboys to Detroit Lions, the common denominated man,
they are physical at the point of attack.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Both like to kind of mash it and make it happen.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
You think about the Colts being able to elevate that
offense behind Daniel Jones. The first eight games of season
they were seven to one. They were dominating people until
his injury. Really, you couldn't slow that train down. With
the Dallas Cowboys, man, it seems like every time they
pick alignment eventually he becomes a Pro Bowl. At some
point you think about their long term success and how
the line is directly tied to their most successful years
(31:08):
over the last twenty years.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
You love that. And then finally Detroit Lions.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
When I hear Dan Campbeill talk about, Hey, we got
to get out this pajama party.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
We need to make sure that we understand who it
is and what it is.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Ah Man, I rude the day that those guys have
to go to camp because I know he's going to
turn back the clock and the pads is going to
be on a lot in Detroit as he builds out
the toughness of the team.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
He's certainly going to do it from inside out with
the trenches.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Yeah, he is.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
And you know what, He's earned that privilege, I think
because of what they had to endure last year. I mean,
this is a team that you didn't anticipate was going
to be starting guys that you may have never even
heard of on the interior halfway through the season. But
that's the position that they found themselves in. Getting Tate
Ratlie in there as a rookie. I thought he played
well for the most part, but you also lost your senate.
You had to move Mahogany over center. There were a
lot of changes that they had to deal with, and
(31:55):
it was a big reason why they missed the playoffs.
Their offense just wasn't as explosive. People can point to
Ben Johnson being gone. That's fine, that's definitely part of it,
but I think more of it was the offensive line
just not being as consistent as overpowering with a team
that loved to establish the ground game with their two
headed backfield. So they get back to what they're supposed
to do this year, they'll take that step forward, and
I think they're going to start getting back there by,
(32:17):
like you said, turning back the clock, getting a little throwback,
getting after it in training camp.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Well, they absolutely going to get after the training camp
is one of the things that we love when we
go on the tour to kind of see how people
choose to kind of get their team ready. Well, Dan
Campbell's from the old school. I mean, it looks like
nineteen eighties when you go and make your way to Detroit.
We're looking forward to seeing that, as we're also looking
forward to seeing these top five perform. And we'll have
(32:41):
you back throughout the season. But at some point we'll
revisit this list at the end of the season to
see where you're right, where you're wrong, but you're right
for coming on.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Moved to six because it's great. Have you on, Thanks
for coming on.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Thanks for having me on. I appreciate Its a great time,
hey man.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Until next time, guys, make sure you tune in Move
the Stix for all your latest, greatest opinions and analysis
on what is taking place in the league.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I am Bucket Brooks and we'll tuck.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
You m
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Mhm
Was that football world.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I am Buckey Brooks say that is my man. Nick
Shook over here joining me on move the sticks?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Nick?
Speaker 3 (00:09):
What is going on? How you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I'm doing fantastic, Buck. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 4 (00:14):
I think this might be the first I've ever been here,
and I'm very excited to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
That's that's good.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
We won't make it your last time when it comes
to being on the pod. Look, I know you are
the person that we love to go to when it
comes to offensive lines and those things. But before we
even talked about the offensive line, I wonder what fascinates
you most when you're looking at old line, Like, why
have you dug so deep into the offensive line?
Speaker 4 (00:39):
I mean, that's what I played when I played, and
so it's what I know best. I understand the intricacies
of it and what is required of these guys. But
I think once you get to the really collegiate and
in the NFL level, is really we get the supreme athletes,
especially as the as football continues to push toward more
getting basketball players former basketball players playing tight end or
playing tackle. Right, Like you think about the Lane Johnson types,
(01:00):
and so you see these supreme athletes who are also
three hundred plus pounds who are able to move, and
the technicalities that you need to be so good at
this position, I think is very overlooked because these guys
aren't touching the football, so you know, the common fan
doesn't look at them and think about those things. But
there's so many intricacies that they have to get to know,
and seeing those guys do that at a at a
(01:20):
high level, like true excellence, just gets me fired up. Man.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I love seeing a guard pool.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
You know, it's a long pool kicking out the end
and we're opening up a big running lane because everybody's
celebrating the touchdown run. But I'm celebrating the guy who
nailed the end, sealed it off, and created the alley
for the touchdown run.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Now, it's interesting that you brought up like the basketball
like athletes, you brought up guys like Lane Johnson and
those things. I believe the position has changed so much
and it continues to evolve because we kind of have
this ying and yang where we go back from the
zone base blockers, the guys that are super athletic but
they may be a little lighter, to the rogue graders
(01:57):
that may play in pinn and pool systems, garpool power
coming downhill. When you look at today's game, where do
you feel like the league is trending when it comes
to O line play and the schematics that has showcase
what some of these old office alignemen do.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
I think we're getting further away from the road greater
types of the classic like bulkier alignment, and we're getting
more towards the moving guys because the zone scheme has
become so popular over the last fifteen or twenty years. Right,
we still get some of those traditional schemes, those pin
and pools, right, the power schemes, but more often than not,
we're worried about guys being able to get off the
first level, get to the second level and really create
(02:34):
explosive plays. So I feel like it kind of began
with the tackles because as the edge rushing, you know,
landscape blossomed over the last ten years or so and
it became such an important position the offense had to
have accounter to that, which is why you got the
more athletic tackles that are able to you know, stay
in front of those guys. But then you move to
the interior and we see less of the big power guys.
Now you still get like the rare combo between the two.
(02:56):
You get the Quenton Nelson type that's a combo between
the two. But I think about this year's draft class.
Van guyone one of my favorite guys in this draft,
moves really well for his size, but it's still built
like a classic road grader. You get less of those
guys than you have in previous years. So I think
we're going to continue to see more of the fluid athletes,
which look. Man, when I'm sitting in Luke Soil Stadium
(03:17):
at the Combine and I'll watch these guys go through
the drills. Every once in a while, you see a
guy who just moves differently and I'm like, there, it
is right there.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
That's the future of the league.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, it's so funny. You talk about the future the
league and I go back to tackles. It used to
be where the left tackle was the premier position. That
was the super athlete, that was the one who was
like Superman, being able to kind of snuff out the
elite pass rushers, and the right tackle was viewed as
the road grader. He was the one that was not
as mobile, not as nimble, it didn't matter because most
(03:47):
teams are right handed.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
They were going to run the ball on that side.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I worked in Carolina and John Fox was one of
the first guys that would take the premiere pass rusher
and put him at left defensive end. He did that
with Michael Straighthand in New York, and then he did
it with Julius Peppers with the Carolina Panthers. Having seen
the evolution of the position, do you naw view right
tackle and left tackle the same? Do you think they
should be interchangeable or do you still see a differentiation
(04:14):
between who is a right tackle and someone's the left.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Tack We're as close to them being the same as
we've ever been, I think, and especially over the last
few years. I look at this draft class, I think
about the kid from Arizona State, Maxi and Nottra right like,
this is the guy who played right tackle his entire
career at Arizona State. That's all the film you have
on him, and yet he's still going to a team
that kind of already had a right tackle in Troy Fatanho.
(04:39):
They felt confident enough because I think that that it's
that valuable you're gonna look at penay Sewell moving from
right tackle to left tackle this year for the Lions.
Some people are concerned about that, I understand, but he's
built to do it. And then I think about Tristan
Wurf's a guy who came out of Iowa playing right
tackle for the majority of his career is now one
of the best left tackles in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
But even he said come out of college that.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
It's pretty difficult to make that switch from right to left. Well,
he's done it, and I think it proves that now
not only can guys make that transition, but the value
is the same because of what you just described. It's
all about that chess match. Defense has got ahead of
the offenses, and now we're getting to that point where
we're about even and I think I love to see
it because then you look at you know, like Lane Johnson,
(05:21):
like the best right tackle in football for a long time,
going to be in the.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Fifteen years ago, nobody's worried about that guy because he's
going to go move to left tackle because it was
very valuable.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Now they're equally valuable.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
No, it's really funny to think they have Lane Johnston
one side, Jordan Mayauta on the other side. Do you
think about the athleticism that they have. In fact, the
Eagles offensive line in general had been a goal stand
for a long time. When it comes to where they
were able to plug and play people there, Jeff Stalin
had a lot to do with that. You talked about guards,
and you talked about fewer teams are going after those
(05:54):
rogue graders on the interior. Do you see it as
because before we were talking about positional value, and Quentin
Nelson was the anomaly being a guy that was selecting
in the top ten, really selected like early at an
interior blocker position. Do you see that position also changing
in terms of how people value them and when they
(06:16):
will select them.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Yes, I do, although I don't think it's going to
happen as quickly as we saw the value of right
tackle skyrocket. And I think Ione was a good example
of that in this year's class, which is that he
was clearly the guy, the interior guy, at least in
my opinion, I had him going I think as high
as eleventh or twelfth in my mock draft. He went
a little bit later than that, and I firmly believe
that the value is just that important. Now that's conditional,
(06:40):
because if you have a greater need to tackle, you're
still going to take a tackle, which is why I
think it's going to continue to go at a little
bit slower of a rate. But the one thing we're
not maybe looking at as much. And if we go
back over the last I don't know, fifteen twenty, I
think back like when Jeff Faine was the first round
pick coming out of Notre Dame. Right like, center is
the position that a lot of people don't pay attention to,
but we all often talk about them being the quarterback
(07:01):
of the offensive line, making the calls, getting the protection,
set everything else. That is probably still a little bit
further ahead than guard because of its it's importance at
the center of the offensive lot.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, no, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
So teller lendimam right, like there was a big to
do about him switching from one spot in Baltimore going
to Las Vegas. There's probably some buyers, well, some regret
in terms of the Ravens losing him because they were
talking about fair market value and what they thought and
obviously the Rats went above and beyond.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
But I do believe you're onto something.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
When it comes to centers and their value, we always
just talk about how important they are because it's communication position,
and a good center can alleviate the pressure on the quarterback.
They have to make all the calls and all the
adjustments and identify everything when it comes to it. What
else are we missing about the growing importance in terms
(07:52):
of the center in the NFL landscape.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Well, I think he made a great point there, which
is that, look, we live in the league in which
patience has no ever been thinner than it is now,
especially at the quarterback position. How do you help a
young quarterback get acclimated and take a little bit off
of his plate then by lining him up behind a
center who is skilled at setting those protections and making
sure that all five of those guys are in the
right spot at the right time against that front. We're
(08:15):
gonna make sure, Hey, we're gonna block it this way.
We're gonna pick up the blitz of this happens. Ma,
we've got a slide left, me, We've got a slide right.
Maybe it's a bit of a half slide. There's a
lot of intricacies there. That's a lot on the quarterback's
shoulders when he's also got to take the snap, deal
with the higher level of speed at the NFL level
and find the right guy open. There's so much on
that young kid's plate, not to mention the pressure of
being the hope of this franchise. Often is the case
(08:38):
with this position. Makes a little bit easier when you
have a center who's really good at handling that part.
And I think that's the value that often goes overlooked
but is pretty obvious when you put the right guy
in front of a young quarterback. I'm looking at Miami,
Aaron Brewer at Miami and Malik Willis. I can't wait
to see how that pairing works and if Malie can
actually take the next step, even if the team around
him isn't as talented as it was in Green Bay
(08:59):
because of the presence of a guy like Aaron Brewer.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah, really underrated when it comes to their value, what
they do at the.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Point of attack.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I remember being in Kansas City and playing when they
had really, I mean a magnificent into your three. You're
talking about wheel shields, Tim Grunnard, Jeff Slot just being
able to just make it happen on the inside, and
it was so vital and Marty Schettenhammer was standing from
the room and like, it doesn't matter who we have.
As long as we got those three, doesn't matter who's
(09:32):
the running back, we will be okay because they can
control it. And we are seeing more teams get away
with maybe lesser talented running backs because the offensive line
is so good. And then the other part of that
is how important is it for the scheme to really
match the kind of personnel that you have in front
(09:53):
of the quarterback and the running back.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Yeah, that latter part is especially important, and I think
as offenses continue to evolve, we're going to see the
importance of that only increase. But it's funny because the
way you describe it, we often spend so much time
talking about tackles because they have to face these edge rushers. Well,
what's the quickest way to the quarterback. It's through the
center of the offensive line. It's through the a gap.
That is an essential part of your front five is
making sure that those guys are in sync. When you
(10:16):
see veterans who have played multiple years together and that
are at an averager better skill level, you often see
some of the most cohesive offensive lines in the NFL,
and you can do a lot with that, based on
your scheme, of course, but you can usually do a lot.
And it starts with the ground game because if you
guys are all on the same page and you're executing consistently,
you can get the ground game going. You could take
a little bit of pressure off of the pass rush
(10:37):
and everything else, and when you look at that larger picture,
we go back to the simplest rules of offensive line play,
which is inside out. Like if you're just on a
zone path, it's inside man across your face, and then
forward right. So that begins with those three interior guys,
them moving almost as a unit in the running game,
being able to work together in tandem in the pass
(10:59):
blocking game, and it just makes everything else stronger to
where then maybe it's not as important to have a
top tier tackle and it makes everything just work a
little bit better.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, it does make everything just work better. And we
are seeing more teams kind of commit to that. And
I think about the Seattle Seahawks and how individually you
may not view any of those guys as a star,
but collectively that unit plays really really well. Before we
start talking about like these groups, because I didn't have
(11:28):
you on like before the draft or right after the draft.
We talked about marriages and fits in scheme. Who are
some of the players, the rookies that you saw get
drafted that you believe they are perfectly suited to go
where they ended up being selected.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
That's a good question, I thought, you know, I was
thinking about veg a Ione. Where do I want him
to go? And I for a long time wanted him
to go to Baltimore because I just felt like it
was the perfect fit for his style, right, And so
I'm looking at it and I'm thinking, all right, where
is this going to land?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
How is this all going to work out? Boom?
Speaker 4 (12:02):
He goes to Baltimore, And I'm just like, that is
the guy. And look, I know I talked about him already,
but that is a guy who moves really well for
his size, but he's also a crushing, devastating blocker. And
the way that the Ravens now they're obviously, you know,
operating in a different offense to the new coaching staff,
but the way that they love to get Dereck Henry Downhill,
I just felt like that was the perfect fit in
a draft in which the Ravens just made multiple this
(12:23):
makes logical sense picks. That was the best one of
this entire group. I also think about Spencer final and
the way that the Browns were able to move from
six to nine to get him. I thought that it
was important that they continued to build out their tackle position,
especially as they rebuilt this offensive line. And I'm very
curious to see how he's going to fit in because
he's not like an overwhelming tackle necessarily, but he's very
fundamentally sounds. He's pretty stout, you know, he doesn't really
(12:46):
make a lot of mistakes, and I think that's going
to be very important as they try to continue to
rebuild this offense, you know, depending on who plays quarterback there.
I think that's just going to be really effective because
as you know, we're going to talk about some of
these groups, I was diving into the numbers and I
know what the tape told me, but then it went
and looked at the numbers and I was like, Yeah,
the Brown's offensive line was bad in pretty much every
category last year, and that's with a lot.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Of returning starters.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
And so I think an identity change was necessarily along
with the coaching change, and part of that identity change
is reinvesting your offensive line. So very curious to see
how he fits in there.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah, curious to see. Look, he was one of my favorites.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Both of the guys that we've talked about, Ione and Phenol,
they were guys that I was really high on.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
And I know there was a weird discussion leading into
the draft about what do you take them? What's the value?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I don't know if they're the best guys, but to
me and I said this, and I felt like IONI
was the best offensive alignment in the draft period, and
if we weren't caught up on positional value, he should
have been the first one selected as a top ten pick.
And the same could be said for Spencer Berno. I
want to transition because you mentioned the groups, and you
mentioned the Cleveland Browns and how they were bad. I
(13:48):
do kind of want to pick your brain on like
some of the top five groupings that we have in
the league, and we can go from five to one,
we can go from one to five. I'll let you choose,
but give me a group that you're either really high on.
What you're saying is in the top five, So which
way you.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Want to get?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Let's let's go from five to one. How about that.
Let's say the best for last, right, Okay.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
You got a number five, all right.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
So I was a little conflicted on this because I
had a few teams in mind. Four, number five, I
had a even you know, in my notes wrote down
a group of honorable mentions, but all of them have
question marks in one way or another. I'm going with
the Buffalo Bills, and the reason is there's a lot
of continuity on this offensive line. They did lose David Edwards, right,
they got to replace him with Alec Anderson, But that's
a guy who has a good amount of reps done,
(14:29):
like he's prepared to step in this opportunity. A lot
of the time he played was a tackle. Now he's
gonna have to shift the guard. But I'm really not
worried about that transition. This is a group that also
propelled the league's leading rusher in James Cook last year.
That doesn't just happen, you know, by mistake. This is
a group that obviously benefits from playing in front of
Josh Allen, which makes them more unpredictable because they always
(14:50):
have to account for the past and the run.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
But that's not.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Really like an excuse or get out of jail free card.
When it comes to performing, you still have to execute well.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
And they have.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
You know, they have a new offensive line coach with
this group, but you can't argue with the numbers. They
were eighth and pressure rate allowed. They created two rushing
yards before contact per run last year, which is like
one of the league's best, and obviously that's what helped
propel James Cook. But yeah, I'm not as trusting in
it as I might be with some of these other
offensive lines, just because of minor changes and because they're
(15:21):
getting little bit older at tackle on both sides. But
the history is there, and even with the coaching staff change,
I think they're STI gonna be one of the best
offensive lines in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, Look, I think they have an opportunity to be
really good, and I think Joe Brady can even enhance
them more by utilizing two and three tight ends, like
he's kind of leaned into Donkin k Dawson Knox. They
have a few other guys that they can throw in there,
like when they go to those heavy personnel packages.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
It masks some of the deficions you talked about with
the older.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Offensive tackles, but allows them to kind of play big
boy football where they can run it and also protect
Josh Allen. The Buffalo Bills are one of those teams
that people are talking about a lot of eyes on
them re emerging as a title contender in the wake
of maybe a controversial firing. But if job Brady is
able to kind of enhance what they are already do
at the line of scrimmage, the Buffalo Bills could.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Be cooking and cooking with gas. Who's number four in
your list?
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Number four is going to be the Los Angeles Rams
because I love what they have in their starting four.
Now they are changing the right tackle Rob Havenstein retired,
but if you look at it, Warren mclinnon actually started
more games in the position there last year than Havenstein did,
so he's also another guy who's prepared to take over.
But they're starting for with Jackson, Avila, Shelton and Dotson, which,
(16:35):
by the way, Kevin Dotson, what a great transition from
Pittsburgh to the Rams and just what he's been able
to do with this team at right guard.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I love that group.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Another offensive line that was owns some responsibility for producing
one of the most explosive offenses in the NFL last year,
another group that's stellar with numbers fourth and pressure rate
allowed another two yards per carry created before contact and
a top five run stuff right, which means they just
weren't letting guys into the backfield to shut down their
runs very often. It explains a lot of why Matthew
Stafford had success and Kyraen Williams had success and.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
The rest of this group. I would have really liked
to see them spend their first.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Rounder this year on an offensive lineman. I was really
hoping it was going to be like someone like Malanoa
from Miami or maybe even you know, reach a little
bit with Ian Ocher. But if this is the way
they feel that, you know, they're comfortable with everything else,
that's fine.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I'm happy with it.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
They did give mc cleanon enough looks in the last
couple of years to get him prepared for this job,
and he graded out pretty well too, So I'm just
the one thing that I'm always curious about is this
is a position group across the league that is very
hard to replicate success from one year to the next,
whether it's because of injury, because of turnover elsewhere. I
want to see if they can do it again. But
what I've seen over the last couple of years from them,
(17:46):
I've been very impressed, and that's why they're fourth on
my list.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, you talk about coninuity trying to be able to
replicate it because it is such a unique position. It's
not about just having the five most talented players. It's
about the five that can work together and obviously been
in those rooms and played the position in those things
like the connectivity is everything, and the only way you
really can get connected is spending time together.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
On and off the field.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
And one of the things that you have to do
when you scouting is you're measuring him, weighing those personality
types and how they kind of blend in.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
And when I think about the rams and how.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
The pieces of the puzzle will fit together, it's not
only the chemistry that works, but the complimentary nature of
their games. It works, and Sean McVay has done a
great job of making sure heat enhances what they do
with the schematics that play behind it.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
At three, who do got okay?
Speaker 4 (18:34):
So this is where I had a little bit of
a tough time because I have valued this offensive line as.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
One of the best in the NFL for the last
three to five years.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
They occupy a place that it's a rare air for me.
I was once occupied by the cults of last decade,
like right when they first got Quentin Nelson and they
had a really strong five and they were running the
ball well and everything was working well for them. And
I am conflicted on this because I don't think they're
quite as good as they were a couple of years.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Ago, but they're still really good.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
And it's because of the offensive line coach who has
since departed, but is you know, revered for what he's
done in turning lesser known guys into you know, all pros.
It's Jeff Stallin and it's the Philadelphia Eagles. They don't
have him anymore, although he may still be involved in
some capacity, so I'm a little bit concerned about that.
But this is a group that's built on the strength
of tackles. I think this is the best tackle tantum
in the NFL. With Jordan Mylott at left tackle Lane
(19:23):
Johnson at right. You want Lane Johnson to come back
and have a healthy season, which could be his last,
which is also why I wanted to spend them to
spend their first round pick on a guy like Blake
Miller as a succession plan. That's not where they went obviously,
and it's a group that really depended on the strength
of its interior, you know, as a compliment to those tackles.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
A couple of years ago.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
I think about when mckhai Beckton came over and made
the switch to guard, and suddenly he was a very
effective guard, and you know, ended up getting a contract
with the Chargers and they had to replace him. Tyler
Stein comes in there. They've had some injury issues with
Landon Dickerson and Cam Jurgens on the interior, but those
two guys, Jurgens at center and Dickerson and left guard,
especially Dickerson, still make a really good pairing there. Now,
(20:01):
Jurgens has not quite maybe lived up to the expectation
that comes with being Jason Kelsey's successor, but I still
think he's been largely good enough to keep this group solid.
And we go back two years. How do you explain
Saquon Barkley's two thousand yard season. You look at that
offensive line on how well they execute their many responsibilities,
turning a rugby player into one of the better left
tackles in the NFL, and Jordan Malatta was a feather
(20:24):
in Stotland's cap and something that I think most teams
wouldn't be able to do because it would require patients
and continuous teaching, which in expert level teaching. But they
did it and that's really why they're so strong as
a group. I need them to stay healthier. I'm a
little bit concerned about depth, but as it stands right now,
going into Week one, if they're all out there, I.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Still feel very good about the Phildelphia Eagles.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, they're one to better groups, saying going all the
way back to Andrey's days, they always invested heavily in
the trenches. They are going to use a first or
second round pick on someone in the trenches. They had
a great developmental plan. And when I watched this team
a few times live, if you ever get a chance
to watch their pregame routine and how they work their
offensive lit I mean it basically like they're having practiced
(21:06):
before the game.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Everybody's out there practice squad players, their top players, their starters.
They go through it. Now.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Stoutland was running that and so we'll see how much
it changes with you when he departs. But the Philadelphia Eagles,
not only the investment, but their commitment to the development
of their offense a lot has been one of the
reasons why they've always been in that conversation over the
last few years. You're right, man, the Eagles are right there,
closed with no cigar, but they certainly are one of
(21:34):
the top units in the game.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Who's next to number two?
Speaker 4 (21:37):
That's funny too that you mentioned that pregame because covering
the Eagles in the Super Bowl a couple times over
the last four it's been one of my favorite things
is on the field. Just sit and stand down there,
just enjoy that because it takes me back because like
a lot of you know, a lot of teams just
go through the motions, right, they don't go through the motions.
I'm like, oh yeah, we're cracking little pads here.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Let's go. I like this, you get these guys ready.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
This is how you're supposed to get ready for a game,
right here. Hit that face mask a couple of times.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
No, but yeah, they've I mean, they do a really
good job, and I think more teams should kind of
steal the idea.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I've never seen anything like that. I stood there.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
My jaw dropped when I watched how they went through it,
and Stalin is an og but to see how they
develop and to see how far they come, I certainly
after watched him in pregame, understood how Joey Mylotta went
from being a rugby player to one of the top
tackles in the league.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Exactly, exactly, all right.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
At number two, I got the Steelers, and I got
to give a tip of the captain GMO Mark Cohn,
because three or four years ago this was a bad
group just across the board was a bad group, and
they invested repeatedly through the draft in their offensive line.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
It all starts with center.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Zach Frasier, I think has become one of the better
centers in the NFL and a guy that a lot
of people probably overlooked a little bit when he was
coming out of college. And you build out from there.
Mason McCormick has been solid. Troy Fatanu took a huge
step in development from year one to year two with
the Steelers last year, and now he's got a challenge
in front of him. Obviously, if he's gonna move to
the left side, we'll see if they do that or not.
(23:00):
But if they do move him to the left side,
it opens up the door for Ian Osher to come
in and try to earn a starting spot. If they
gave him on the right side, then it's a test
of Broderick Jones and can he actually become the left
tackle that you thought he was going to be when
you spent a draft pick on him. But what I
love about that is you have options. This is a
team that's not afraid to invest in the trenches. They
understand what AFC North football is, and it's especially important
when you have a forty two year old quarterback and
(23:22):
Aaron Rodgers back there who gets the ball out fast
than anybody else in the NFL, because he knows if
he doesn't and the blitz does get home, then there's
going to be problems.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
That's helped them with their numbers.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
They're a little bit inflated, I think because of that
because they just got the ball out so quickly to
the pressure rate is naturally going to be lower. But
as a group starting five, I just love what they've
been able to do. Jalen Warren's development, I think is
tied to that, and I'm excited to see where they
go this season in another off seas in which I
think they made, you know, wise, small improvements in the offense.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
We'll see if they.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Can continue to gel and see how that tackle situation
shakes up. But again, I love that they have options.
That's why they're my number two group.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
They only have options, and I think they should be
applauded for the pick. People that talk about, well, they
were at a period they were going to take Makaile Lemon,
but they didn't get him. They got Max Ahnachur. They're
able to kind of plug him in if needed. Roger
Jones it's coming off an injury. We'll see if he
comes back. They have decisions to make on whether to
keep him based on his status as the first round
(24:20):
pick and fifth year options in those things. But regardless,
the Stealers have provided enough insurance where they can make
sensible decisions when it comes to their personnel up front,
and they can do it while eventually breaking in a
new quarterback. Right now, they're able to kind of operate
with the training wheels of Aaron Rodgers behind him. But
next season they're gonna have to have a young guy
(24:40):
and they are going to have to be able to
protect them right now the pieces look great in terms
of putting the pieces of the puzzle together to protect them.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
We'll see how they continue to grow.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Who's number one Number one is? You know, I think
we're in a weird situation right now in the NFL
where there's no like dominant and clear answer for the
top offensive line in the NFL, because usually you get
some star power when you try to name your top
offensive line, or usually you have such an explosive offense
(25:11):
that you can point to the offensive line and say, hey,
this is why this is the best group in the NFL.
They work incredibly well together and they've propelled this great unit.
I couldn't really necessarily say that about the Denver Broncos entirely,
but that's a very good group that is greater than
the sum of its parts. Now, of course, you have
some star power out there. You've got Garrett Bowles, a
guy who has really, over the course of his career,
(25:31):
developed into one of the better tackles in the NFL.
You've got Quinn Miners, who arguably one of the best
guards in the NFL, if not the best, he's one
of the best guards in the NFL. And you have
the rest of this group that's kind of worked together
to become a cohesive unit, and it's one that's really
aided by Sean Payton in the way that he gets
creative offensively. We talked about bo Nick's rookie year and
how often he was moving him out of the pocket
(25:52):
where he was often at his best, which is where
he was at his best during his time at Oregon.
You didn't quite see that as much.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Earlier in the season.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
Last year, it started to pick up down the back half.
And it all has to do with that offensive line
being able to move the pocket, being able to keep things,
you know, the variety up with the style that you're
approaching with, whether it's the running game, whether it's the
screen game, whether it's getting your quarterback out on the
role to get you know, the ball out in time
and away from some pressure. They can do all of
that really well. And when you watch them run in
(26:19):
more traditional fashions, when they're just trying to run between
the tackles, they execute that really well too. It's just
that sometimes that gets lost in the shuffle. My big
thing for them, and it has nothing to do with
the offensive line. The last two years, I've felt like
the one position they haven't addressed as a team is
running back, and I would love to see what they
could do with a truly dynamic number one running back.
They really don't have that with this team. But you
(26:41):
look at RG Harvey's success last year, and you have
to credit the offensive line for that. You know, you
go watch their highlight film and often it's them springing
Harvey for big runs. I would love to see what
they did with a more dynamic, stronger running back necessarily
or somebody that's just more of a household name. But
as it stands right now, Look, you don't get to
the AFC title game with a second year of quarterback
without a great offensive line like that.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
And they're a fantastic group.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, they are a fantastic group, and haven't washed them
up close and personal, I'll say, man, their ability to
control the line of scrimmage, the ability to spring holes
for anybody that they put in the backfield, And you're right,
if they had a more dynamic or a running back
with star power, we really would give them a lot
of credit for their dominance at the point of attack.
But the way they keep bo Knicks upright, I find
(27:24):
it interesting that Bo Nicks is at his best running
the two minute drill. They're running the two minute drill
going fast. They have athletic people in front of him.
He's able to get them to move and those things.
They've just really assembled a well balanced, complimentary front five
that allows them to live in either world. Pass heavy,
run heavy. They can do it both. But as a
(27:45):
testament to those guys and the ability to win their
individual matchups but also collectively dominate at the point of attack.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of any time that a
team can go take a Chris Peterson Arrow Washington offensive
lineman and turn him into one of you key parts
of your offensive line.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
And Luke Wattenberg is that for them.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Far from the only one I think about, like a
Roger rosen Garden elsewhere, but it was a program that
really produced some high end offensive lineman for a good
period of time, especially at the back half of the
twenty tens. And you can get those types of players
into your system and then get them acclimated and make
them a key part of what you're doing, and then
you surround them with other guys like you know the
ones we mentioned with with bowls with miners and oh
(28:24):
by the way, veteran Mike McGlinchey, a guy and who
played most of his career in San Francisco, who maybe
wasn't the favorite of some forty nine ers fans, but
comes in there and really has a great second act
of his career. It's just a really fun group to
get behind.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
No, it's a really fun group to get behind. You
have a lot of hopes and expectation because man, both
Nixon is healthy. Maybe they are the AFC representative right
in the Super Bowl last year, but they have to
play it all over and see if they can get
back there. I got asked which was the hardest decision,
Which was the hardest unit to leave on the cutting
(28:57):
room floor?
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Okay, so I would say the Colts, And the big
question is what the situation is at right tackle with them.
This is a team that going in I think two
off seasons ago, we were really concerned about the departures
and how they were going to effect a group that
really wasn't as good as it should have been.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Well, they've exceeded expectations since then.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Obviously, your left side with Ryman and Nelson really you know,
establishes that. But one of my combined favorites is Tanner Bordolini. Yeah,
he's now been a big part of them at center,
mac on Caalvis at right guard as well. The question
is what are you doing to right tackle you you
have Jalen Travis. Is that your answer?
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Long term? That's the one area of concern for me.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
So but again, they propel another great rushing attack with
Jonathan Taylor when he's healthy, still one of the best
home run hitters in the NFL. And if it wasn't
for the injuries that they suffered at quarterback last year
with Daniel Jones, you know, people might be holding them
in higher regards.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
So it's them.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I also think the Cowboys deserve more love than they've gotten.
That's another team that's really repeatedly invested in the offensive line.
They've moved guys around when they've had to. I mean,
I think we completely forget the fact that like Tyron
Smith was there for the longest time and is no
longer there, because it seemed like every other year they
were drafting somebody else. And the last group that needs
to be better than it was last year. And I
believe in their potential if everything goes right as the
(30:09):
Detroit Lions, one of the best offensive lines of two
years ago that have dealt with injuries and a lack
of depth really hurt them last year as well as
some departures. You know, you had Taylor Decker asking for
his release, in Frank ragnow retiring, trying to unretire that
didn't work out. They've had to deal with a lot
of changes over the last couple of years while still
trying to be among the NFC's heavy hitters. I'm curious
to see if they can take a good step forward
(30:30):
this year after taking a couple of steps back last year.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yeah, man, I liked at Trio.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
I mean, when you think about the in and Outlis
Colts to Dallas Cowboys to Detroit Lions, the common denominated man,
they are physical at the point of attack.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Both like to kind of mash it and make it happen.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
You think about the Colts being able to elevate that
offense behind Daniel Jones. The first eight games of season
they were seven to one. They were dominating people until
his injury. Really, you couldn't slow that train down. With
the Dallas Cowboys, man, it seems like every time they
pick alignment eventually he becomes a Pro Bowl. At some
point you think about their long term success and how
the line is directly tied to their most successful years
(31:08):
over the last twenty years.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
You love that. And then finally Detroit Lions.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
When I hear Dan Campbeill talk about, Hey, we got
to get out this pajama party.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
We need to make sure that we understand who it
is and what it is.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Ah Man, I rude the day that those guys have
to go to camp because I know he's going to
turn back the clock and the pads is going to
be on a lot in Detroit as he builds out
the toughness of the team.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
He's certainly going to do it from inside out with
the trenches.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Yeah, he is.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
And you know what, He's earned that privilege, I think
because of what they had to endure last year. I mean,
this is a team that you didn't anticipate was going
to be starting guys that you may have never even
heard of on the interior halfway through the season. But
that's the position that they found themselves in. Getting Tate
Ratlie in there as a rookie. I thought he played
well for the most part, but you also lost your senate.
You had to move Mahogany over center. There were a
lot of changes that they had to deal with, and
(31:55):
it was a big reason why they missed the playoffs.
Their offense just wasn't as explosive. People can point to
Ben Johnson being gone. That's fine, that's definitely part of it,
but I think more of it was the offensive line
just not being as consistent as overpowering with a team
that loved to establish the ground game with their two
headed backfield. So they get back to what they're supposed
to do this year, they'll take that step forward, and
I think they're going to start getting back there by,
(32:17):
like you said, turning back the clock, getting a little throwback,
getting after it in training camp.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Well, they absolutely going to get after the training camp
is one of the things that we love when we
go on the tour to kind of see how people
choose to kind of get their team ready. Well, Dan
Campbell's from the old school. I mean, it looks like
nineteen eighties when you go and make your way to Detroit.
We're looking forward to seeing that, as we're also looking
forward to seeing these top five perform. And we'll have
(32:41):
you back throughout the season. But at some point we'll
revisit this list at the end of the season to
see where you're right, where you're wrong, but you're right
for coming on.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Moved to six because it's great. Have you on, Thanks
for coming on.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Thanks for having me on. I appreciate Its a great time,
hey man.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Until next time, guys, make sure you tune in Move
the Stix for all your latest, greatest opinions and analysis
on what is taking place in the league.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I am Bucket Brooks and we'll tuck.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
You m
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Mhm
Hosts And Creators
Daniel Jeremiah
Bucky Brooks
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