December 16, 2025 • 36 mins
The end of the war
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
This is the Jesse Kelly Show. It is the Jesse
Kelly Show. Second hour, another hour of the Jesse Kelly
Show on a wonderful Tuesday, and do not forget. You
can email us Jesse at jessekellyshow dot com. We are
about to finish finally the Rhodesian Bush War tonight. I
(00:35):
have no earthly idea how long it's going to take me.
It might not even take me an hour. It probably won't,
but who knows. And then once we're done with that,
that'll wrap that up, and then we'll move back on
to politics. Remember if you missed any of the previous
four parts, they're all available on iHeart, Spotify, iTunes. Go
download the podcast and give all the background and stuff
(00:58):
like that. And always keep something else in mind whenever
we do history on this show. If there is a
topic that intrigues you, I just want to stress this.
There is a topic that intrigues you, I want to
encourage you that I can't possibly present all the interesting,
(01:22):
cool parts of it to you. Meaning, if I like
the Rhodesian Bushwart's about to be five hours basically of content.
If you're fascinated by it. It can be common to
think this and I know because I used to do this.
It can be common to think, Okay, well I got it.
Jesse already told me about it. No, you're getting the
(01:46):
parts of it that are uniquely intriguing to me. And
of course you have an overview now, a basic understanding
of it. But I only have a basic understanding of it.
If they're are parts of it that intrigue you, any
parts of it, go read or listen to podcasts or
(02:07):
even audio books, like Jewish producer Chris does. If there's
a subject that fascinates you that maybe we've introduced you
to on this show, dig into it more yourself. There's
so much more out there. I had to learn this myself.
I'd read one book on something and think, Okay, I
got it. That's it. No, no, no, no, no, go
(02:27):
read ten books on it. There's all kinds of different
perspectives and angles and details and more things that will
come to you if you're fascinated by it. Dig into it,
all right. So we got this email Jesse, I'm really
enjoying the history of the Rhodesian bush War. We got
a bunch of these. I'm glad you enjoying it. At
the beginning of the century. I completed MSG training and
(02:49):
was headed to my first post. By the way, MSG
is Marine's security guard. Those are the guys who guard
our embassies. The United States Marines guard the embassies anyway,
and headed my first post Zimbabwe. I had no idea
where it was. To complicate matters, the schoolhouse map was
from nineteen seventy nine, and I had no idea that
(03:10):
it had been Rhodesia. The country was amazing, but I
arrived just as the economy was collapsing. Not to give
it away. One of the local guards told me that
he had fought alongside Robert Mugabi. I'll get to him
in a bit. When I asked him what Mugabi was like,
he gave me this haunting stare and simply said he
(03:30):
is a cruel man. A very telling statement from his
former comrade. Anyhow, keep up the good work. I love
your show. Simplify. Yeah, I'll let the rest of that
thing go. So now I mentioned yesterday where we are now,
I won't recap it for you again. I've already done
(03:52):
too much of that. Nineteen seventy four Mozambique, the country
east of Rhodesia. They had been friendly to Rhodesia because
they were controlled by the Portuguese. Mozambique falls, Portugal pulls out.
They say, hey, you can have it now. Mozambique is
openly hostile to Rhodesia and the communist terrorists. They move
(04:15):
into Mozambique in a huge way. Gigantic training camps are
now open in Zambia and Mozambique. The Soviet Communists are
pouring money and munitions and training into these areas. The Chinese,
the Chicoms are pouring money and munitions and training into
(04:37):
these areas. Rhodesia has its enemies amassing on its borders.
It has officially one friend left on the planet, and
that friend is South Africa. South Africa kind of on
the southwestern border of Rhodesia and South Africa was half
(05:01):
their air force planes. South Africa would send men to help.
But here is part of the problem with diplomacy. I
shouldn't say problem. It's just the way the world works.
I shouldn't even call it a problem. Let's be adults here.
It's the way the world works. Countries like the United Nations,
or countries like the United States, Organizations like the United Nations,
(05:24):
Countries like the UK. They're not stupid. They understand that
Rhodesia is still held up, at least in part by
the South Africans. Well, that creates a problem for South
Africa because South Africa is not powerful enough to withstand America,
the UN, the UK. So they start leaning hard on
(05:49):
Rhodesia to change. And remember the change they want as
you read it, as you dig into it, the change
they've always wanted is one man, one vote, man one vote. Well,
that would mean the Europeans would essentially have no power whatsoever,
and the various African tribes would take over all positions
(06:09):
of government. Now pause, by this time, that has already
happened in several countries around Africa. And every place that happened, genocide, poverty,
war and misery has followed. The world knows. Everybody knows.
(06:30):
If you hand it back over, they're going to murder
everybody and destroy every ounce of progress and it's going
to be a disaster. And the Rhodesians know this as well.
Remember we're talking a country that got going in eighteen ninety,
not that old. We're less than one hundred years old
on this country here, and these Europeans managed to build
(06:54):
it into the wealthiest, most prosperous country in Africa, modern
paved roads the world, and they're looking around at every
other country in Africa fall and saying we're not giving
it back. You're outside of your mind. But the idea
was one man, one vote. Now, sorry, we're folks on
(07:15):
politics for a moment. We'll come back to combat in
a minute. Don't worry about remembering these details. I've given
you too many. There's a lot of details in the story.
The head of Rhodesia is Ian Smith. Was his name,
Ian Smith. He was trying and obviously failed in the end.
And the different things you read will give you different
(07:36):
opinions of Ian Smith. I need to clarify that. But
no matter which way you shake it, he was trying
really hard to work with Britain on an agreement of
some kind that would allow Rhodesia to remain Rhodesia while
maybe giving Britain enough of what they wanted to kind
(07:56):
of back off. Hey, back off? Now? Why is he's
so desperate for them to back off? Remember I told
you before that Rhodesha was so wealthy and so prosperous
that people were pouring in other Africans were pouring in,
looking for opportunity, looking for work. Europeans were pouring in. Hey,
this is a great place, fertile ground, modern, let's go
(08:19):
have an adventure. Let's go, let's go to Rhodesia. By
this point in the story, we're at the late seventies.
By this point in the story, that has changed. Now
farmers are being slaughtered. Now, if you get caught out
in the hinterlands by the terrorist groups, with the terrorist camps,
(08:39):
they'll kill you, rape you, torture you. Now you had
to have an armored convoy. Let's say you and me,
throw your fam in the car, all through my fami
in the car. We're gonna go camp in this weekend.
We're gonna go out to the hinterlands. They'd call it
the bush. We're gonna go out to the bush and
we're gonna go fishing this weekend. You can't do that
(09:00):
anymore in Rhodesia, unless, of course, you have a friend
in the army, because it requires a military convoy to
drive out to the hinter lands. Think of it this way.
Salisbury is the main city. It wasn't only Salisbury, but
I'll make it easy. Salisbury's the main city. Consider Salisbury
your fortress of safety. It's four to five fortress of safety.
(09:22):
That's fine. You leave that fortress, you might die. You
go out to any of the rural lands in Rhodesia,
you might die, and you might die ugly. Well. Remember,
Rhodesia may have had an elite military, but still it
was not a military. The country itself, Rhodesia was not
(09:43):
a military. It was a country, a country made up
of people of men, women, young, old school children, churches.
It was a civilization and people who you would previously
come to Rhodesia in search of opportunity and adventure. They
(10:06):
didn't want to live in a place where a landmine
might incinerate your whole family when you were driving out
for a picnic after church on a Sunday afternoon. Things
have gotten so bad in Rhodesia. Europeans are leaving, thousands
of them. They're done. The country is coming apart. Will
continue in a moment. Before we continue this, I want
(10:29):
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(11:36):
for your freedom every day the Jesse Kelly Show. It
is the Jesse Kelly Show on a fantastic, fantastic Tuesday.
You can email us Jesse at Jesse kellyshow dot com.
Back to our Rhodesian Bush War history. Now we need
to pause on Rhodesia specifically for a moment, and we
(11:59):
need to focus on the terrorists or gorillas, depending on
which side you're on. Here. As I told you before,
there are two very very different communists terrorist groups, and
they're different because they come from the two different African
tribes that had previously controlled Rhodesia. I won't bother with
(12:21):
naming the tribes again, that's just a detail. It doesn't matter.
You can go dig into it. The tribes are known
as different things anyway, but two different tribes historical hatred, slavery, slaughter, rape,
historical hatred. Well, one of those tribes backed by the Soviets,
the other tribe backed by the Chinese. But wait, there's more.
(12:47):
Communists are horrible, aren't they. They're even horrible to each other.
You see, there's actually an internal communist revolt that kind
of slows things down for the Soviet backed communists because
they end up having their leaders arrested and tortured, and
then they have to arrest and torture the guy. It's
don't My whole point in this was, don't think that
(13:10):
it's all hunky dory with the communist terrorists who are
setting up these camps outside of Rhodesia, and in some
cases in Rhodesia. It is not now back to being
in Rhodesia. The Rhodesians are running out of stuff, and
it really is. It's amazing how how they were able
(13:30):
to fix planes and fix helicopters with essentially what they
had on hand. They're patching it all together. I was
reading one thing from a guy. He was Rhodesian light infantry,
and he talked all the time about how he would
have to stitch up his own combat gear because the
gear they had was so worn out and frayed that
(13:51):
you couldn't even store anything in it. Remember these guys
the toughest nails. Their military was excellent, but they're running
out of things, and they're also hurting for man power.
Remember yesterday what I mentioned fire force. What it was
Fireforce were these different quick reaction forces in the country
(14:13):
and they would they would find terrorists, they'd get load
up in the heroes, load up in the planes, take
off towards the terrorists, try to surround them, envelop them
and kill them. All sounds great, worked really well, was
a genius idea, But the number of terrorists is seemingly endless.
The number of Rhodesians is not. They don't have the
(14:38):
man power to suffer a broken ankle. These fire force
units were supposed to be one hundred men, one hundred
and twenty men. They were always going out with seventy.
People were dying, people were getting hurt. And again, this
is a tiny portion of society. The man power is limited.
So let's discuss us somebody briefly here, because he's going
(15:02):
to matter. In fact, the email brought him up already,
Robert Mugabi. People who have any understanding of history of
the region will know the name. Of course, certainly older
people will know the name Robert Mugabi. Spoiler alert. He's
the head of one of the communist groups, the Chinese backed,
actually the Chinese backed communist group that will eventually conquer Rhodesia.
(15:27):
Remember that he is already a monster, a butcher. He
is known as a butcher. He has advanced Chinese training,
not just on military stuff, on insurgencies, on everything. He
is somebody widely known to be a bad, bad person.
I mentioned Ian Smith's negotiations with the British government, how
(15:51):
they're trying to negotiate some sort of an agreement where
the Rhodesians can the Europeans essentially can retain control, but
of course with increased African representation and things like that.
And one of the things the Rhodesians were passionate about
was under no circumstances can Robert Mugabi take over this country.
(16:13):
This was something well known even with the other terrorists,
the Soviet back terrorists, even they knew, Oh, Robert Mugabi,
that would probably be bad. He definitely seems like a
genocidal madman who will kill and torture everybody. We should
probably avoid that. Now, what kind of things are the
(16:34):
Rhodesians doing. Some of these things you may love, some
may not. I mentioned yesterday. They're putting up their own
land mindes, lots of them. They are draining the rural
areas because now that the Communists are able to come
into Rhodesia. In the rural areas, the communists are recruiting Rhodesians,
(16:57):
Black African Rhodesians, recruiting them from inside the country. And
by the way, because they're communists, it's not always lovely rocruitment.
Recruitment with signing bonuses and candy canes for everybody. They
operated in much the same way the Vietcong operated. They
would walk into your African village and pull the village
(17:19):
elder in the village leader and ask him for twenty
young men to join the communist cause. And if he
said no, they gather the whole village around and they
carve his guts out while he's still alive in front
of everybody, rape all the women, and chop people's heads off.
It's horrible. It's just human rights abuses like you can't
possibly imagine. Well, now this is making a bad problem
(17:41):
even worse for the Rhodesians. They're having internal problems, and
so they start doing things like I already mentioned, draining
these areas. They're not letting people stay there anymore. Now
they're having things like curfews where if they catch you
out after a certain hour, you die. Period. Well, what's
going to happen? Then you're going to eventually kill innocent people,
(18:05):
and then that's going to make international news. They're just
swimming against the tide. So they eventually do pull off
one of the cooler military things I've ever heard in
my life that was awesome and wonderful in a complete
and total disaster. I will explain what that is in
a moment. Before I explain what that is I want
(18:27):
to read this email, Jesse. I listened to your radio
show today and you read an email from a guy
that donated to preborn. He felt guilty about his past.
It touched my heart, so I also gave to preborn
from my past. I hope to save a soul denied
of life. When I first got to know preborn and
(18:47):
I started speaking for preborn on the show, you know
they give ultrasounds to women who are about to abort
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about it. I am passionate about it, but I had
no earthly idea that it would be an outlet for
so many people. Hey, Jesse, my mom died. I gave
in her name. Hey Jesse, I aborted a child when
(19:08):
I was younger. I gave and I had no idea
this was going to be a thing. But it blesses
me that it is. If that helps you, it helps
you get by, do it, think you might find it.
It does help a bit. It helps to ensure another
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(19:33):
preborn dot com slash Jesse sponsored by Preborn Operation Eland.
This next Fighting for Your Freedom every Day, the Jesse
Kelly Show. It is The Jesse Kelly Show on a
Fantastic Tuesday, going over the final part of the Rhodesian
(19:55):
Bush War. If you missed any of the others, iHeart
spotify iTunes. So by now I mentioned already the Rhodesians
are having to take extreme measures. And keep in mind,
I don't want to present them as fluffy and cuddly.
They're doing some torturing themselves. They are, and they're doing
things that would make you probably squeamish. For instance, they're
(20:19):
selling cigarettes, clothing to the communist guerrillas that's poisoned. They're
poisoning them. These are the kinds of things they're doing.
Now I mentioned Mozambique and how big of a problem
Mozambique was. These huge communist training camps were in Mozambique.
(20:40):
Now there's a unit, and I read a wonderful book.
Three SIPs of Gin is the name of the book.
Three SIPs of Gin is the name of the book.
Three SIPs of Gin is the name of the book. Anyway,
about this unit I've mentioned before called the Sellers Scouts
or Selu Scouts. They were in elite unit. As I mentioned,
(21:04):
more than half of them, and that's going to matter
for Operation Elan's purposes. More than half of them were
Black Africans. Many of those Black Africans were actually recruits.
They had been communists and then they got recruited and
they joined the sellas scouts. This unit did more things
that I could ever lay out than I even know.
(21:26):
I mean, I've only read a few books on the subject.
They were always tracking people. They were doing they were
posing as warlords, they were poisoning cigarettes. They were the
clandestine find a way to find them and kill them unit,
and they came up with an Operation Gutsy is just
(21:48):
one way you would describe it. You see, there was
this large communist training camp in Mozambique. Here is what happened.
The less Scouts knew when the troops would gather for formation.
I believe there were a couple thousand troops when they
would gather for formation in this space in Mozambique. Here's
(22:12):
what they did. They gathered up in a bunch of
armored cars, armored cars designed by Armored Cars that were
the same cars that the terrorists would be using. Keep
in mind cars that had gigantic machine guns on them.
I won't break down the details of these machine guns.
Also cars that it's hard to see inside an armored car,
(22:36):
is it not. These SELU scouts used their black members
and they put terrorist uniforms on them, so they looked
like the communists terrorists, and those were the ones who
were the drivers and the turret gunners, of course, And
they drive up to the gate of this communist training
(22:59):
camp in Mozambique while all the terrorists are on the
parade ground for formation, and of course they get stopped
at the gate. The communists said, what are you doing here?
And they pull that thing you've seen in the movies
a thousand times. They say, I'll have you arrested. What
are you doing stopping me? You peon? I'm general whatever,
(23:20):
I'm colonel whatever. I'll cut your hands off. Of course
it's some I'm sure it's some twenty year old idiot
kid at the gate. Well, wow, sorry, you guys, go ahead.
They drive these armored vehicles into the base. They are
outnumbered on this base sixty to one. They are not
(23:42):
only outnumbered sixty to one, May I repeat myself, they
are in a totally different country. They are in Mozambique,
they are not in Rhodesia. They pull the armored vehicles
with the heavy machine guns onto the parade ground. The
troops who are on the parade ground, remember there's a
(24:04):
couple thousand of them, They want to know what's going on.
They began to gather around the armored vehicles, at which
point in time the signal is given and the heavy
machine guns open fire on the defenseless terrorists on the
parade ground and they start chopping these guys up like cord.
(24:32):
They slaughter the African terrorists, no deaths on behalf of
the cellas scouts. When they've done what they can do,
they peel rubber in their armored cars and drive out
of the base all the way back to Rhodesia. One
of the most bold, brilliant military actions I have ever
(24:56):
heard of in my entire life. Angous success right and
of course widely celebrated in Rhodesia. But as we have discussed,
there's always a political aspect to war. Always. I don't
(25:17):
like it, you don't like it. Kill the enemies all
that matters, But that's not real life. Operation Eland as
it is called, was a humongous military success, but at
this point in history, it is a diplomatic, a political disaster.
(25:39):
Rhodesia is already coming apart. It is politically on the
outs with the rest of the world, and Jimmy Carter's
President of the United States of America. Operation Eland mortifies
the entire planet. Think about it, a bunch of unarmed Africans.
(26:01):
And of course the Communists say they were all refugees.
They don't say any of these guys were terrorists or
soldiers or gorillas. They act like the Rhodesians rode in
and mowed down a bunch of women and children. Now,
what's the one friend Rhodesia has left on the planet
South Africa. After Operation Eland, the world comes down so
(26:26):
hard on South Africa. South Africa says, hey, Rhodesia, we're out.
You are on your own. And they leave and they
take their men, and they take their planes and they bail.
Now it's over, I mean, at this exact moment, it
(26:52):
doesn't end, but this ends Rhodesia. They are a land
locked country where the modern countries of the world have
declared them to be the enemy, and physically every country
now on their border is hostile to them. Not only
(27:13):
no more trade, most of the countries on their border
are harboring and training and supplying terrorists pouring into their country.
Now they know it's over, the only question is what
do you do? So they came up with a couple
different plans. There was one plan. One plan was to
(27:38):
essentially leave the country and burn down and destroy all
the infrastructure on the way out, essentially fight a rearguard
action down to South Africa where you'll leave and just
you know, fill up, put concrete in every toilet, rip
up every street, leave nothing for the Africans. But what
(27:59):
happens is they agree to have an election, a one man,
one vote style election the Brits had been pushing for
from the very very beginning. Well, how do communists operate
elections here in the United States of America? How'd that
twenty twenty election go? How do you think Robert Mugabi
(28:22):
and his political party, how exactly do you think they're
going to handle an election in Rhodesia. Yeah, let me
go ahead and spoil it for you. Robert Mugaby with
some uh shady dealings, if you will, takes power in Rhodesia.
Now We'll just do a couple more sentences on this
(28:44):
thirty more seconds, because I think you already know how
it goes from here. It doesn't go very well, all right,
hang on, Jesse Kelly returns next. It is the Jesse
Kelly Show, final segment of the Jesse Kelly Show on
(29:06):
this hour. Don't worry, we still have an entire other hour.
It's just going to be our final segment on the
Rhodesian Bush War. Fast forward. We finally have peace in Rhodesia.
Peace doesn't go very well. Robert Mugabi and his Communists
take over the government. Now I need to clarify. I
(29:28):
said there were a couple different plans. The Europeans had.
One of those plans actually involved now performing a military
coup and killing them all. But they decided to set
those plans aside and they walked away. But not all
Europeans walked away. And I know, given what we were
going to know here in a moment, that probably sounds bonkers. Hey,
(29:49):
some angry communists, some murderous time, it just took over.
Why would you stay? Let's remember these are real people,
and let's remember you might be on your third generation
in your family farm, in Rhodesia. Maybe your grandfather came
here eighty years ago. It's easy looking back down, it's
(30:11):
easy for you. It's easy for me to say, hey,
you got to get out. That may be everything you
have it maybe everything you've ever known. I mean you
may you might be fifty five years old. What are
you gonna do? Go start over? A lot of Europeans
chose to stay, and Robert Mugabi, who understood the world
was watching him now, initially tried to play it off
(30:36):
as if he was just going to be a pretty
fair guy. Still allowed a few Europeans to be represented
in the government, didn't immediately start the purges. But he's
a communist. What do communists do with power? Do you
think they're different than our than our communists? What do
they do? They do two things. They reward their friends
(30:58):
and they punish their enemies. Robert Mugabi begins to fill
up the government with committed communists. Robert Mugabi also he
believes he has two sets of enemies in the country,
not just the white Europeans. Remember those Soviet backed gorillas,
the Soviet back terrorists. Remember how they were from a
(31:22):
different tribe than Mugabi. Mugabi starts to get a little
bit stronger in his rhetoric of these people are the enemy,
these people are the reason things aren't working well because,
of course, surprise, surprise, things start to fall apart the
second you hand the country to the communists. Robert Mugabi
starts to genocide the opposing tribe. Robert Mugabi starts to
(31:47):
do things like this. Farmer farmer or white European farmer
is well aware that white European farms have been attacked,
few of them lately. Anyway, farmer feels that his family
may be in danger. He may be in danger, so
he sends his wife and children into town, into Salisbury
(32:11):
or somewhere like that, where he thinks they'll be safe.
And then he wakes up one night to find his
home is surrounded by gangs with machetes and axes, gangs
that have been sent there by Robert Mugabi. He calls
his mother, tells mom what's happening, essentially tells her goodbye.
(32:33):
His mother, as any mother would, hangs up the phone
a bit distraught and calls the police. Except who do
you think controls the police now in what is now Zimbabwe?
Who do you think controls the police. Remember what happens
in our big cities now with these big city police chiefs.
(32:54):
The police don't even answer the phone. That man ends
up being hacked to death and shot to death inside
of his home. This became an extremely common tale as
Zimbabwe slowly but surely descended into what all communist countries
(33:17):
descend into, a one party state full of torture, death, genocide,
and now the Jewel of Africa, the wealthiest, most prosperous
country in Africa, now makes the Jesse Kelly Show crappiest
(33:37):
country in the World tournament. All it took was twenty
thirty years of communist rule to destroy everything civilized people
had built. It is an insanely fascinating tale, a sad tale,
(33:59):
if we're being honest, isn't it sad? There are people
who are passionate about Rhodesia. Keep in mind, I remember
I teased yesterday that we've got a guy who was there.
He's going to actually join us tomorrow. We've we've reached
out to him courtesy of a listener of the show,
actually a Navy Seal listener of the show, which is
really cool. Center five Brother Navy Seal listener of the
(34:19):
show knows a veteran of the Rhodesian Bush War, and
he's going to join us tomorrow, probably just be a
brief little thing. I just want to touch base with
him on it. I want, I want to hear from him.
I haven't talked to him yet. Jewish producer Chris as
I haven't. I'm going to talk to him. We'll just
get his perspective on it. But are there are Rhodesians,
many of them still alive today, who remember it and
it is such a point of sorrow, And there are
(34:42):
people who are just passionate about it, who think about it,
and it's just such a point of sorrow. And I
really thought it would be an appropriate lesson for where
we are and what happens if you don't stop communist
insurgents from making over your country, from occupying the positions
(35:03):
of power, they will bring nothing but death and misery
in the end. And who is better off? Now? Who's
better off? I'd love to ask the United Nations and Britain,
in all these countries that helped doom Rhodesia, are you
proud of yourself right now? There was a wonderful place,
not just for white Europeans, for Black Africans, employment, civilization,
(35:29):
modern medicine, and you had to rip it away from
them with your race activism. And now people starve to
death regularly, living below the poverty line, hospitals that don't
have any medicine. That's what happens. A very very sad tale,
(35:50):
but a very fascinating tale. And like I said in
the beginning, we're going to get back to politics now.
Like I said in the beginning, if this fascinates you,
into your emails, it most certainly does. If this fascinates you,
go pick up a book on it, an audiobook on it.
I mentioned a couple books that I read just because
they were my favorites. But there are so many. There
(36:14):
are fascinating YouTube channels. People have done podcasts with these veterans.
You can go so much more in depth than I
went into. I gave you the thirty thousand foot view.
If this war, if this conflict fascinates you, look into it.
I didn't even go into all the mercenaries that came
over and fought with them, including Americans, Vietnam veterans, all
(36:35):
kinds of people fascinating. Anyway, Let's talk about a healthcare problem.
You may have some emails letting juveniles out of prison
and more. Thanks
This is the Jesse Kelly Show. It is the Jesse
Kelly Show. Second hour, another hour of the Jesse Kelly
Show on a wonderful Tuesday, and do not forget. You
can email us Jesse at jessekellyshow dot com. We are
about to finish finally the Rhodesian Bush War tonight. I
(00:35):
have no earthly idea how long it's going to take me.
It might not even take me an hour. It probably won't,
but who knows. And then once we're done with that,
that'll wrap that up, and then we'll move back on
to politics. Remember if you missed any of the previous
four parts, they're all available on iHeart, Spotify, iTunes. Go
download the podcast and give all the background and stuff
(00:58):
like that. And always keep something else in mind whenever
we do history on this show. If there is a
topic that intrigues you, I just want to stress this.
There is a topic that intrigues you, I want to
encourage you that I can't possibly present all the interesting,
(01:22):
cool parts of it to you. Meaning, if I like
the Rhodesian Bushwart's about to be five hours basically of content.
If you're fascinated by it. It can be common to
think this and I know because I used to do this.
It can be common to think, Okay, well I got it.
Jesse already told me about it. No, you're getting the
(01:46):
parts of it that are uniquely intriguing to me. And
of course you have an overview now, a basic understanding
of it. But I only have a basic understanding of it.
If they're are parts of it that intrigue you, any
parts of it, go read or listen to podcasts or
(02:07):
even audio books, like Jewish producer Chris does. If there's
a subject that fascinates you that maybe we've introduced you
to on this show, dig into it more yourself. There's
so much more out there. I had to learn this myself.
I'd read one book on something and think, Okay, I
got it. That's it. No, no, no, no, no, go
(02:27):
read ten books on it. There's all kinds of different
perspectives and angles and details and more things that will
come to you if you're fascinated by it. Dig into it,
all right. So we got this email Jesse, I'm really
enjoying the history of the Rhodesian bush War. We got
a bunch of these. I'm glad you enjoying it. At
the beginning of the century. I completed MSG training and
(02:49):
was headed to my first post. By the way, MSG
is Marine's security guard. Those are the guys who guard
our embassies. The United States Marines guard the embassies anyway,
and headed my first post Zimbabwe. I had no idea
where it was. To complicate matters, the schoolhouse map was
from nineteen seventy nine, and I had no idea that
(03:10):
it had been Rhodesia. The country was amazing, but I
arrived just as the economy was collapsing. Not to give
it away. One of the local guards told me that
he had fought alongside Robert Mugabi. I'll get to him
in a bit. When I asked him what Mugabi was like,
he gave me this haunting stare and simply said he
(03:30):
is a cruel man. A very telling statement from his
former comrade. Anyhow, keep up the good work. I love
your show. Simplify. Yeah, I'll let the rest of that
thing go. So now I mentioned yesterday where we are now,
I won't recap it for you again. I've already done
(03:52):
too much of that. Nineteen seventy four Mozambique, the country
east of Rhodesia. They had been friendly to Rhodesia because
they were controlled by the Portuguese. Mozambique falls, Portugal pulls out.
They say, hey, you can have it now. Mozambique is
openly hostile to Rhodesia and the communist terrorists. They move
(04:15):
into Mozambique in a huge way. Gigantic training camps are
now open in Zambia and Mozambique. The Soviet Communists are
pouring money and munitions and training into these areas. The Chinese,
the Chicoms are pouring money and munitions and training into
(04:37):
these areas. Rhodesia has its enemies amassing on its borders.
It has officially one friend left on the planet, and
that friend is South Africa. South Africa kind of on
the southwestern border of Rhodesia and South Africa was half
(05:01):
their air force planes. South Africa would send men to help.
But here is part of the problem with diplomacy. I
shouldn't say problem. It's just the way the world works.
I shouldn't even call it a problem. Let's be adults here.
It's the way the world works. Countries like the United Nations,
or countries like the United States, Organizations like the United Nations,
(05:24):
Countries like the UK. They're not stupid. They understand that
Rhodesia is still held up, at least in part by
the South Africans. Well, that creates a problem for South
Africa because South Africa is not powerful enough to withstand America,
the UN, the UK. So they start leaning hard on
(05:49):
Rhodesia to change. And remember the change they want as
you read it, as you dig into it, the change
they've always wanted is one man, one vote, man one vote. Well,
that would mean the Europeans would essentially have no power whatsoever,
and the various African tribes would take over all positions
(06:09):
of government. Now pause, by this time, that has already
happened in several countries around Africa. And every place that happened, genocide, poverty,
war and misery has followed. The world knows. Everybody knows.
(06:30):
If you hand it back over, they're going to murder
everybody and destroy every ounce of progress and it's going
to be a disaster. And the Rhodesians know this as well.
Remember we're talking a country that got going in eighteen ninety,
not that old. We're less than one hundred years old
on this country here, and these Europeans managed to build
(06:54):
it into the wealthiest, most prosperous country in Africa, modern
paved roads the world, and they're looking around at every
other country in Africa fall and saying we're not giving
it back. You're outside of your mind. But the idea
was one man, one vote. Now, sorry, we're folks on
(07:15):
politics for a moment. We'll come back to combat in
a minute. Don't worry about remembering these details. I've given
you too many. There's a lot of details in the story.
The head of Rhodesia is Ian Smith. Was his name,
Ian Smith. He was trying and obviously failed in the end.
And the different things you read will give you different
(07:36):
opinions of Ian Smith. I need to clarify that. But
no matter which way you shake it, he was trying
really hard to work with Britain on an agreement of
some kind that would allow Rhodesia to remain Rhodesia while
maybe giving Britain enough of what they wanted to kind
(07:56):
of back off. Hey, back off? Now? Why is he's
so desperate for them to back off? Remember I told
you before that Rhodesha was so wealthy and so prosperous
that people were pouring in other Africans were pouring in,
looking for opportunity, looking for work. Europeans were pouring in. Hey,
this is a great place, fertile ground, modern, let's go
(08:19):
have an adventure. Let's go, let's go to Rhodesia. By
this point in the story, we're at the late seventies.
By this point in the story, that has changed. Now
farmers are being slaughtered. Now, if you get caught out
in the hinterlands by the terrorist groups, with the terrorist camps,
(08:39):
they'll kill you, rape you, torture you. Now you had
to have an armored convoy. Let's say you and me,
throw your fam in the car, all through my fami
in the car. We're gonna go camp in this weekend.
We're gonna go out to the hinterlands. They'd call it
the bush. We're gonna go out to the bush and
we're gonna go fishing this weekend. You can't do that
(09:00):
anymore in Rhodesia, unless, of course, you have a friend
in the army, because it requires a military convoy to
drive out to the hinter lands. Think of it this way.
Salisbury is the main city. It wasn't only Salisbury, but
I'll make it easy. Salisbury's the main city. Consider Salisbury
your fortress of safety. It's four to five fortress of safety.
(09:22):
That's fine. You leave that fortress, you might die. You
go out to any of the rural lands in Rhodesia,
you might die, and you might die ugly. Well. Remember,
Rhodesia may have had an elite military, but still it
was not a military. The country itself, Rhodesia was not
(09:43):
a military. It was a country, a country made up
of people of men, women, young, old school children, churches.
It was a civilization and people who you would previously
come to Rhodesia in search of opportunity and adventure. They
(10:06):
didn't want to live in a place where a landmine
might incinerate your whole family when you were driving out
for a picnic after church on a Sunday afternoon. Things
have gotten so bad in Rhodesia. Europeans are leaving, thousands
of them. They're done. The country is coming apart. Will
continue in a moment. Before we continue this, I want
(10:29):
to encourage you to make twenty twenty six different. I
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(10:50):
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(11:11):
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(11:36):
for your freedom every day the Jesse Kelly Show. It
is the Jesse Kelly Show on a fantastic, fantastic Tuesday.
You can email us Jesse at Jesse kellyshow dot com.
Back to our Rhodesian Bush War history. Now we need
to pause on Rhodesia specifically for a moment, and we
(11:59):
need to focus on the terrorists or gorillas, depending on
which side you're on. Here. As I told you before,
there are two very very different communists terrorist groups, and
they're different because they come from the two different African
tribes that had previously controlled Rhodesia. I won't bother with
(12:21):
naming the tribes again, that's just a detail. It doesn't matter.
You can go dig into it. The tribes are known
as different things anyway, but two different tribes historical hatred, slavery, slaughter, rape,
historical hatred. Well, one of those tribes backed by the Soviets,
the other tribe backed by the Chinese. But wait, there's more.
(12:47):
Communists are horrible, aren't they. They're even horrible to each other.
You see, there's actually an internal communist revolt that kind
of slows things down for the Soviet backed communists because
they end up having their leaders arrested and tortured, and
then they have to arrest and torture the guy. It's
don't My whole point in this was, don't think that
(13:10):
it's all hunky dory with the communist terrorists who are
setting up these camps outside of Rhodesia, and in some
cases in Rhodesia. It is not now back to being
in Rhodesia. The Rhodesians are running out of stuff, and
it really is. It's amazing how how they were able
(13:30):
to fix planes and fix helicopters with essentially what they
had on hand. They're patching it all together. I was
reading one thing from a guy. He was Rhodesian light infantry,
and he talked all the time about how he would
have to stitch up his own combat gear because the
gear they had was so worn out and frayed that
(13:51):
you couldn't even store anything in it. Remember these guys
the toughest nails. Their military was excellent, but they're running
out of things, and they're also hurting for man power.
Remember yesterday what I mentioned fire force. What it was
Fireforce were these different quick reaction forces in the country
(14:13):
and they would they would find terrorists, they'd get load
up in the heroes, load up in the planes, take
off towards the terrorists, try to surround them, envelop them
and kill them. All sounds great, worked really well, was
a genius idea, But the number of terrorists is seemingly endless.
The number of Rhodesians is not. They don't have the
(14:38):
man power to suffer a broken ankle. These fire force
units were supposed to be one hundred men, one hundred
and twenty men. They were always going out with seventy.
People were dying, people were getting hurt. And again, this
is a tiny portion of society. The man power is limited.
So let's discuss us somebody briefly here, because he's going
(15:02):
to matter. In fact, the email brought him up already,
Robert Mugabi. People who have any understanding of history of
the region will know the name. Of course, certainly older
people will know the name Robert Mugabi. Spoiler alert. He's
the head of one of the communist groups, the Chinese backed,
actually the Chinese backed communist group that will eventually conquer Rhodesia.
(15:27):
Remember that he is already a monster, a butcher. He
is known as a butcher. He has advanced Chinese training,
not just on military stuff, on insurgencies, on everything. He
is somebody widely known to be a bad, bad person.
I mentioned Ian Smith's negotiations with the British government, how
(15:51):
they're trying to negotiate some sort of an agreement where
the Rhodesians can the Europeans essentially can retain control, but
of course with increased African representation and things like that.
And one of the things the Rhodesians were passionate about
was under no circumstances can Robert Mugabi take over this country.
(16:13):
This was something well known even with the other terrorists,
the Soviet back terrorists, even they knew, Oh, Robert Mugabi,
that would probably be bad. He definitely seems like a
genocidal madman who will kill and torture everybody. We should
probably avoid that. Now, what kind of things are the
(16:34):
Rhodesians doing. Some of these things you may love, some
may not. I mentioned yesterday. They're putting up their own
land mindes, lots of them. They are draining the rural
areas because now that the Communists are able to come
into Rhodesia. In the rural areas, the communists are recruiting Rhodesians,
(16:57):
Black African Rhodesians, recruiting them from inside the country. And
by the way, because they're communists, it's not always lovely rocruitment.
Recruitment with signing bonuses and candy canes for everybody. They
operated in much the same way the Vietcong operated. They
would walk into your African village and pull the village
(17:19):
elder in the village leader and ask him for twenty
young men to join the communist cause. And if he
said no, they gather the whole village around and they
carve his guts out while he's still alive in front
of everybody, rape all the women, and chop people's heads off.
It's horrible. It's just human rights abuses like you can't
possibly imagine. Well, now this is making a bad problem
(17:41):
even worse for the Rhodesians. They're having internal problems, and
so they start doing things like I already mentioned, draining
these areas. They're not letting people stay there anymore. Now
they're having things like curfews where if they catch you
out after a certain hour, you die. Period. Well, what's
going to happen? Then you're going to eventually kill innocent people,
(18:05):
and then that's going to make international news. They're just
swimming against the tide. So they eventually do pull off
one of the cooler military things I've ever heard in
my life that was awesome and wonderful in a complete
and total disaster. I will explain what that is in
a moment. Before I explain what that is I want
(18:27):
to read this email, Jesse. I listened to your radio
show today and you read an email from a guy
that donated to preborn. He felt guilty about his past.
It touched my heart, so I also gave to preborn
from my past. I hope to save a soul denied
of life. When I first got to know preborn and
(18:47):
I started speaking for preborn on the show, you know
they give ultrasounds to women who are about to abort
their babies. I had no earthly idea. I was passionate
about it. I am passionate about it, but I had
no earthly idea that it would be an outlet for
so many people. Hey, Jesse, my mom died. I gave
in her name. Hey Jesse, I aborted a child when
(19:08):
I was younger. I gave and I had no idea
this was going to be a thing. But it blesses
me that it is. If that helps you, it helps
you get by, do it, think you might find it.
It does help a bit. It helps to ensure another
life gets to walk on the planet. Go to preborn
dot com slash Jesse twenty eight bucks byes that ultrasound
(19:33):
preborn dot com slash Jesse sponsored by Preborn Operation Eland.
This next Fighting for Your Freedom every Day, the Jesse
Kelly Show. It is The Jesse Kelly Show on a
Fantastic Tuesday, going over the final part of the Rhodesian
(19:55):
Bush War. If you missed any of the others, iHeart
spotify iTunes. So by now I mentioned already the Rhodesians
are having to take extreme measures. And keep in mind,
I don't want to present them as fluffy and cuddly.
They're doing some torturing themselves. They are, and they're doing
things that would make you probably squeamish. For instance, they're
(20:19):
selling cigarettes, clothing to the communist guerrillas that's poisoned. They're
poisoning them. These are the kinds of things they're doing.
Now I mentioned Mozambique and how big of a problem
Mozambique was. These huge communist training camps were in Mozambique.
(20:40):
Now there's a unit, and I read a wonderful book.
Three SIPs of Gin is the name of the book.
Three SIPs of Gin is the name of the book.
Three SIPs of Gin is the name of the book. Anyway,
about this unit I've mentioned before called the Sellers Scouts
or Selu Scouts. They were in elite unit. As I mentioned,
(21:04):
more than half of them, and that's going to matter
for Operation Elan's purposes. More than half of them were
Black Africans. Many of those Black Africans were actually recruits.
They had been communists and then they got recruited and
they joined the sellas scouts. This unit did more things
that I could ever lay out than I even know.
(21:26):
I mean, I've only read a few books on the subject.
They were always tracking people. They were doing they were
posing as warlords, they were poisoning cigarettes. They were the
clandestine find a way to find them and kill them unit,
and they came up with an Operation Gutsy is just
(21:48):
one way you would describe it. You see, there was
this large communist training camp in Mozambique. Here is what happened.
The less Scouts knew when the troops would gather for formation.
I believe there were a couple thousand troops when they
would gather for formation in this space in Mozambique. Here's
(22:12):
what they did. They gathered up in a bunch of
armored cars, armored cars designed by Armored Cars that were
the same cars that the terrorists would be using. Keep
in mind cars that had gigantic machine guns on them.
I won't break down the details of these machine guns.
Also cars that it's hard to see inside an armored car,
(22:36):
is it not. These SELU scouts used their black members
and they put terrorist uniforms on them, so they looked
like the communists terrorists, and those were the ones who
were the drivers and the turret gunners, of course, And
they drive up to the gate of this communist training
(22:59):
camp in Mozambique while all the terrorists are on the
parade ground for formation, and of course they get stopped
at the gate. The communists said, what are you doing here?
And they pull that thing you've seen in the movies
a thousand times. They say, I'll have you arrested. What
are you doing stopping me? You peon? I'm general whatever,
(23:20):
I'm colonel whatever. I'll cut your hands off. Of course
it's some I'm sure it's some twenty year old idiot
kid at the gate. Well, wow, sorry, you guys, go ahead.
They drive these armored vehicles into the base. They are
outnumbered on this base sixty to one. They are not
(23:42):
only outnumbered sixty to one, May I repeat myself, they
are in a totally different country. They are in Mozambique,
they are not in Rhodesia. They pull the armored vehicles
with the heavy machine guns onto the parade ground. The
troops who are on the parade ground, remember there's a
(24:04):
couple thousand of them, They want to know what's going on.
They began to gather around the armored vehicles, at which
point in time the signal is given and the heavy
machine guns open fire on the defenseless terrorists on the
parade ground and they start chopping these guys up like cord.
(24:32):
They slaughter the African terrorists, no deaths on behalf of
the cellas scouts. When they've done what they can do,
they peel rubber in their armored cars and drive out
of the base all the way back to Rhodesia. One
of the most bold, brilliant military actions I have ever
(24:56):
heard of in my entire life. Angous success right and
of course widely celebrated in Rhodesia. But as we have discussed,
there's always a political aspect to war. Always. I don't
(25:17):
like it, you don't like it. Kill the enemies all
that matters, But that's not real life. Operation Eland as
it is called, was a humongous military success, but at
this point in history, it is a diplomatic, a political disaster.
(25:39):
Rhodesia is already coming apart. It is politically on the
outs with the rest of the world, and Jimmy Carter's
President of the United States of America. Operation Eland mortifies
the entire planet. Think about it, a bunch of unarmed Africans.
(26:01):
And of course the Communists say they were all refugees.
They don't say any of these guys were terrorists or
soldiers or gorillas. They act like the Rhodesians rode in
and mowed down a bunch of women and children. Now,
what's the one friend Rhodesia has left on the planet
South Africa. After Operation Eland, the world comes down so
(26:26):
hard on South Africa. South Africa says, hey, Rhodesia, we're out.
You are on your own. And they leave and they
take their men, and they take their planes and they bail.
Now it's over, I mean, at this exact moment, it
(26:52):
doesn't end, but this ends Rhodesia. They are a land
locked country where the modern countries of the world have
declared them to be the enemy, and physically every country
now on their border is hostile to them. Not only
(27:13):
no more trade, most of the countries on their border
are harboring and training and supplying terrorists pouring into their country.
Now they know it's over, the only question is what
do you do? So they came up with a couple
different plans. There was one plan. One plan was to
(27:38):
essentially leave the country and burn down and destroy all
the infrastructure on the way out, essentially fight a rearguard
action down to South Africa where you'll leave and just
you know, fill up, put concrete in every toilet, rip
up every street, leave nothing for the Africans. But what
(27:59):
happens is they agree to have an election, a one man,
one vote style election the Brits had been pushing for
from the very very beginning. Well, how do communists operate
elections here in the United States of America? How'd that
twenty twenty election go? How do you think Robert Mugabi
(28:22):
and his political party, how exactly do you think they're
going to handle an election in Rhodesia. Yeah, let me
go ahead and spoil it for you. Robert Mugaby with
some uh shady dealings, if you will, takes power in Rhodesia.
Now We'll just do a couple more sentences on this
(28:44):
thirty more seconds, because I think you already know how
it goes from here. It doesn't go very well, all right,
hang on, Jesse Kelly returns next. It is the Jesse
Kelly Show, final segment of the Jesse Kelly Show on
(29:06):
this hour. Don't worry, we still have an entire other hour.
It's just going to be our final segment on the
Rhodesian Bush War. Fast forward. We finally have peace in Rhodesia.
Peace doesn't go very well. Robert Mugabi and his Communists
take over the government. Now I need to clarify. I
(29:28):
said there were a couple different plans. The Europeans had.
One of those plans actually involved now performing a military
coup and killing them all. But they decided to set
those plans aside and they walked away. But not all
Europeans walked away. And I know, given what we were
going to know here in a moment, that probably sounds bonkers. Hey,
(29:49):
some angry communists, some murderous time, it just took over.
Why would you stay? Let's remember these are real people,
and let's remember you might be on your third generation
in your family farm, in Rhodesia. Maybe your grandfather came
here eighty years ago. It's easy looking back down, it's
(30:11):
easy for you. It's easy for me to say, hey,
you got to get out. That may be everything you
have it maybe everything you've ever known. I mean you
may you might be fifty five years old. What are
you gonna do? Go start over? A lot of Europeans
chose to stay, and Robert Mugabi, who understood the world
was watching him now, initially tried to play it off
(30:36):
as if he was just going to be a pretty
fair guy. Still allowed a few Europeans to be represented
in the government, didn't immediately start the purges. But he's
a communist. What do communists do with power? Do you
think they're different than our than our communists? What do
they do? They do two things. They reward their friends
(30:58):
and they punish their enemies. Robert Mugabi begins to fill
up the government with committed communists. Robert Mugabi also he
believes he has two sets of enemies in the country,
not just the white Europeans. Remember those Soviet backed gorillas,
the Soviet back terrorists. Remember how they were from a
(31:22):
different tribe than Mugabi. Mugabi starts to get a little
bit stronger in his rhetoric of these people are the enemy,
these people are the reason things aren't working well because,
of course, surprise, surprise, things start to fall apart the
second you hand the country to the communists. Robert Mugabi
starts to genocide the opposing tribe. Robert Mugabi starts to
(31:47):
do things like this. Farmer farmer or white European farmer
is well aware that white European farms have been attacked,
few of them lately. Anyway, farmer feels that his family
may be in danger. He may be in danger, so
he sends his wife and children into town, into Salisbury
(32:11):
or somewhere like that, where he thinks they'll be safe.
And then he wakes up one night to find his
home is surrounded by gangs with machetes and axes, gangs
that have been sent there by Robert Mugabi. He calls
his mother, tells mom what's happening, essentially tells her goodbye.
(32:33):
His mother, as any mother would, hangs up the phone
a bit distraught and calls the police. Except who do
you think controls the police now in what is now Zimbabwe?
Who do you think controls the police. Remember what happens
in our big cities now with these big city police chiefs.
(32:54):
The police don't even answer the phone. That man ends
up being hacked to death and shot to death inside
of his home. This became an extremely common tale as
Zimbabwe slowly but surely descended into what all communist countries
(33:17):
descend into, a one party state full of torture, death, genocide,
and now the Jewel of Africa, the wealthiest, most prosperous
country in Africa, now makes the Jesse Kelly Show crappiest
(33:37):
country in the World tournament. All it took was twenty
thirty years of communist rule to destroy everything civilized people
had built. It is an insanely fascinating tale, a sad tale,
(33:59):
if we're being honest, isn't it sad? There are people
who are passionate about Rhodesia. Keep in mind, I remember
I teased yesterday that we've got a guy who was there.
He's going to actually join us tomorrow. We've we've reached
out to him courtesy of a listener of the show,
actually a Navy Seal listener of the show, which is
really cool. Center five Brother Navy Seal listener of the
(34:19):
show knows a veteran of the Rhodesian Bush War, and
he's going to join us tomorrow, probably just be a
brief little thing. I just want to touch base with
him on it. I want, I want to hear from him.
I haven't talked to him yet. Jewish producer Chris as
I haven't. I'm going to talk to him. We'll just
get his perspective on it. But are there are Rhodesians,
many of them still alive today, who remember it and
it is such a point of sorrow, And there are
(34:42):
people who are just passionate about it, who think about it,
and it's just such a point of sorrow. And I
really thought it would be an appropriate lesson for where
we are and what happens if you don't stop communist
insurgents from making over your country, from occupying the positions
(35:03):
of power, they will bring nothing but death and misery
in the end. And who is better off? Now? Who's
better off? I'd love to ask the United Nations and Britain,
in all these countries that helped doom Rhodesia, are you
proud of yourself right now? There was a wonderful place,
not just for white Europeans, for Black Africans, employment, civilization,
(35:29):
modern medicine, and you had to rip it away from
them with your race activism. And now people starve to
death regularly, living below the poverty line, hospitals that don't
have any medicine. That's what happens. A very very sad tale,
(35:50):
but a very fascinating tale. And like I said in
the beginning, we're going to get back to politics now.
Like I said in the beginning, if this fascinates you,
into your emails, it most certainly does. If this fascinates you,
go pick up a book on it, an audiobook on it.
I mentioned a couple books that I read just because
they were my favorites. But there are so many. There
(36:14):
are fascinating YouTube channels. People have done podcasts with these veterans.
You can go so much more in depth than I
went into. I gave you the thirty thousand foot view.
If this war, if this conflict fascinates you, look into it.
I didn't even go into all the mercenaries that came
over and fought with them, including Americans, Vietnam veterans, all
(36:35):
kinds of people fascinating. Anyway, Let's talk about a healthcare problem.
You may have some emails letting juveniles out of prison
and more. Thanks
Host
Jesse Kelly
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