February 12, 2022 • 24 mins
Michelle Pillepich {@MichellePillepichNutrition} is joining Amy for the next 4 weeks {an ‘Outweigh Residency’ of sorts!} In this first of the four episodes they talk about the polarization of the wellness world—diet culture vs. intuitive eating and how extremes tend to show up online vs. the sustainable approach that actually works!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I won't let my body out out everything that I'm made,
don't won't spend my life trying to change. I'm learning
to love who I am. I get I'm strong, I
feel free, I know who every part of me. It's
beautiful and then will always out way if you feel
(00:24):
it with joys in the air, she'll love to the mood.
I am there. Let's say good day and did you
and die out? Happy Saturday. Outweigh fam Amy here and
I am with our new resident guest hosts. Like we
have a residency, you know, like they do in Vegas
(00:46):
at the hotel's like Adele was supposed to have her
residency and I think like Caesar's Palace, and then I
don't know if she had to pull out of that.
But you know, Garthen Brooks has residencies, George Strait has
done some. And now we have Michelle Pillo pitch here.
This one's not canceled. Yeah, the Outweigh residency, yes, not canceled.
(01:07):
We are good to go and she will be here
with me the next for Saturdays. Now, Michelle, this is
your show. I'm gonna hand it over to you for
today's topic and then we'll just engage in conversation around that.
But we are so honored to have you here. And
maybe you've been on the podcast before, but for new listeners,
just introduce who you are, your credentials, and why you're
(01:28):
passionate about outweigh. Yeah, well, thank you for having me.
I'm thrilled to be here. My name's Michelle Pillopitch. I'm
a registered dietitian and a certified personal trainer UM. I
primarily work with clients who are struggling with eating disorders,
working on eating disorder recovery UM so I work in
a virtual private practice, and I also see anyone who
(01:48):
wants to improve their health and wellness from an intuitive
eating point of view. So that's the short version of
what I do. When you mentioned intuitive eating, which we're
going to touch on that today and kind of diet
culture versus intuitive eating. And then you know, we see
all these things online, especially through Instagram. Well that's where
I get a lot of my content, and then I
(02:10):
have friends that send me things from TikTok, which I
want to spend more time there because Lisa or someone
in Lisa's family said that TikTok is the last happy
place on the Internet. I completely agree. TikTok is where
I go when I want social media without the annoying parts.
It's pure hilarious at least my feed. So yeah, I
love it. Your your algorithm is full of the funny stuff.
(02:32):
So okay, tell us what we're talking about today. Yeah, So,
I mean, it actually is interesting talking about my personal
algorithm because I am in such a bubble on Instagram
of the intuitive eating world in the non diet space
and all the things that I believe in and how
I work that I forget that it's kind of a
new novel thing to a lot of people because diet
(02:53):
culture so strong, and I see both camps, both camps
including into DEI Eating, which I very much of a
part of, going so far to the extremes in terms
of their messaging, especially online, and I hear from clients
and appears that kind of both become inaccessible because the
diet culture group is saying, you know, go on this
(03:13):
thirty day cleans elimination diet or whatever like crazy thing
that's not going to actually help you feel better and
healthier and be sustainable. But then sometimes into it of eating.
And I talked about this a little bit with Lisa
about exercise. Sometimes that camp can skirt around the health
topics so much that people who want to genuinely be
(03:35):
healthier feel better maybe they need to improve their a
once or cholesterol or something also get scared of into it,
of eating, thinking well, that's just totally giving up on health,
and that's not true. I can see where there is
the confusion. As a this is not my profession. I
miss someone who has been a part of both worlds
and spent many of my like teenagers and adult life
(03:58):
immersed in diet call turn trying every diet out there
known to man. And then as I entered into this space,
you're correct in saying it is very new for a
lot of people. It's still foreign to some people where
they're like, oh, this is the first account I've ever
followed like this. It's like a foreign length you're learning
a new language. And then it is when you don't
understand it. That's where there can be a misunderstanding, because
(04:22):
it's kind of like you just like think you know
a little bit of Spanish and then you might have
a conversation with someone that's fluent and then you're like, wait,
what did you just say? And because it gets more
advanced as you move forward. And so I think where
the messaging gets caught up, or where people get caught
up in the messaging, is that a lot of people
online focus on those first steps, where yes, it is
(04:44):
about rejecting diet culture and giving yourself permission for all foods,
and it's that temporary phase of yes, eating more of
the sweets or whatever it is you've been restricting, and
then the long term goal is still to feel your
best and prioritize your health. And so things can be
kind of maybe abnormal compared to what they'll be long
term when you first start, and that can drive people away,
(05:08):
or it can leave professionals never talking about the long
term because that can seem unattainable. It's so complex, like
how to how to portray it, because if you talk about, oh,
but you can still prioritize nutrition, then people might stay
stuck in the diets if they're only thinking about nutrition.
I think that some of the stuff that's posted online
too is to get more views at times, or get
(05:31):
shares and likes and comments, and to kind of have
a like a wow factor to it, like oh right,
without maybe explaining the bigger picture. So since we do
have a little bit of time here, How would you
explain the bigger picture? If say you were to click
on an account where it is a registered dietrician and
(05:52):
they do mean well and it it is helpful information,
but you kind of walk away thinking like, wait, what,
I can just eat like cookies all day long if
I want to, And that's not what people are saying.
But again, it's understanding the whole language. And when it's
like you're trying to shut the door on diet culture,
it can seem like two extremes of like, don't tell
(06:12):
someone they can't have French fries. You can have French fries,
but then you might hear it as so I can
have French fries all day long, right, and then oh,
I'm still gonna feel bad because that doesn't feel good either. Yeah,
it's like this sweet spot of knowing that yes, the
goal long term is understanding. Okay, my body still needs
nutrients and I need to learn not to care for it.
(06:33):
You know what I tell people, especially the clients I
work with, I think that many of them are surprised
that I even entertain the conversation of weight when it's
brought up in session. But I think it's important to
talk about because I can't think of anyone who's never
thinking about it. And I always say, you know, I'm
not going to help you go on a restrictive diet
(06:53):
to lose weight and focus on intentional weight loss. In
a hypothetical world, let's say we were talking about you
my clients losing weight. I wouldn't change anything, I was saying,
because if your body is a decided it doesn't want
to be at you don't have to intentionally try to
change anything. If you, big picture want to change your health,
(07:15):
then it's going to be the same behaviors as big
picture moving towards intuitive eating, meaning you know, eating a
wide variety of foods, allowing yourself everything, and tuning into
your how your body feels so that you're naturally practicing moderation.
It's going to be moving and exercising in a way
that feels good and is sustainable, balancing stress, drinking enough water,
(07:36):
sleeping enough, all these big picture things. And the people
who are in the diet culture world, well, I was
going to say, and doing it ethically, but I don't
think diet cultures ethical, so maybe that's a contradiction. But
somebody who has less of an intuitive focus but is
really focused on health. They're not going to be selling
you those wild ideas that are kind of the click
(07:58):
faith things. They're going to be doing the basics that
we kind of already know well. And then I think
to diet culture wants to sell you an image of like,
this is the ideal what you should be striving for.
And what we have to erase is there's all different
types of bodies. And you said it yourself. If your
(08:20):
body isn't I don't know if you use the word
suppose I want to quote you correctly, but if your
body is not meant to be that size, then you'll
move towards where maybe your body would like to be.
I I guess it's just kind of this exception that
all bodies are different and one size isn't better or
(08:40):
worse than the other. Yeah. And I also talk about
intuitive eating as this shift from external to internal, and
so when you really look at focusing on how you
feel internally rather than Okay, the goal of pursuing health
is to get to exercise. But if it's the goal
of pursuing my health is to feel a certain way internally,
(09:01):
then you're going to naturally moderate behaviors and prioritize the
things that feel good, which is going to be a
wide variety of things, and it's going to be naturally intuitive,
So that focus on what feels right, even if it
doesn't look quote unquote right according to the magazines. I
don't like calling out particular companies, but there are diets
(09:21):
out there that are disguised as intuitive eating, and I
see ads all the time. I know now because I'm
paying attention. But if I wasn't, I would say one
or two years ago, I would have signed up for
one of these programs and it would have left me
probably feeling the same way all the other diets did.
(09:44):
But the way they market it, it's almost like they
know that this whole intuitive eating thing, and you know,
even a lot of registered dietations like people are making
a shift. They're seeing the shift, so they're following with it,
and they're smart, so they're marketing in a way where
it's not a diet. If you google intuitive eating, there
are plenty of these diet plans that pop up, which
is scary. So the things that I caution people to
(10:07):
look for are the kind of extremes that all are
nothing language. So anything that is telling you to cut
something out entirely, like you can't eat any x y
Z food, that's always a red flag. If it's giving
you a particular timeline, that's a red flag. And I
would even say that like tracking food is kind of
(10:31):
a red flag also with the caveat, Like I do
have some clients track their food, but it's on an
eating disorder recovery specific app and it's short term, temporary,
just for me to get to know their patterns. Question
on that because I have not heard of eating disorder
specific food tracking app. So can you expand on that
in case that something someone might be interested in? Sure,
(10:54):
So I don't know if it exists to like use
on your own without working with a professional. But it's
called every Record and it's an app that is I
hate to compare anything to my fitness well, but it's
logging your food. It doesn't give you calorie counts, it
doesn't show any sort of metrics. Um. It allows you
to upload pictures and jot down what you ate as
(11:15):
well as any thoughts and feelings and urges that came up,
and log your hunger and fullness. So it's more geared
towards getting in touch with like everything that goes on
surrounding the food. And so why as a registered dietestion
or why would you have a client use a tool
like that? Good question. I like to have people do
that in the beginning when I'm just getting to know someone,
(11:35):
so that our session time isn't spent just going over okay,
what did you eat and kind of wasting time, but
I can look back and see their patterns for the week,
as well as having them dot down hunger and fullness
to keep track of that and see, Okay, what level
are you eating too, how are you actually feeling with
these different meals and is it enough? Are you portioning
yourself enough food? And then noting their thoughts as well
(11:58):
is really helpful because sometimes you just don't remember that
a particular meal was super triggering or made you really stressed,
or you were worried about X, y Z while you're
eating with these people. So having those notes just gives
us a lot to process and talk through in session. Okay,
that makes sense, So tracking food might be a big
(12:24):
red flag. And obviously I'll just say this too. If
you're listening that way, we're speaking to anybody that has
possible disordered behavior on food or has has had an
eating disorder, because I do have friends that they use
tracking apps, but they don't have an unhealthy relationship with
food or their body. They are genuinely curious about the
(12:45):
science of their body and like, no, they don't they
don't have an issue with it, but they like the
numbers and looking at the protein and the fascination behind
their you know, blood sugar level, their muscle caught, like
they draw their blood and they're like, oh, look at this,
like the the bio hacking type of behavior. Yeah, and
there's so much out there for that. Yeah, and so
(13:05):
intentions really matter, like if you're going to be un
I was talking to a dietitian friend about this right
after the holidays, saying, how, you know, I don't own
a scale, but my in my parents home there's a scale,
and I was like, yeah, whenever I go home, like
I'll stand on the scale and I don't even think
about it. After me, I don't. I couldn't tell you
what the number was last time I weighed myself because
I just I don't know. I'm like, it's just kind
(13:26):
of whatever. And she was like yeah, oh my gosh.
If people knew that a dietitian looked at their weight,
they would be like tabloid news scandal. But it's about
how you react right and being able to see. So
I even have some clients who I'll have them log
their food, and I always say, you know, if you
don't want to log because it stresses you out to
(13:47):
look at what you ate, I think that kind of
says something and it's worth looking into. Doesn't mean that
you need to log your food, but it's something to
talk about, just the stress around it. So in terms
of food logging being a red flag for diets, I
would say if it's logging that is metric based or
rules based and kind of used to determine if you're
(14:08):
following the rules of the plan, so things like points
or I've seen the sort of traffic light system of
like red, yellow, green foods, and so if you're logging
in order to like stay accountable to rules, that is
very diety. So do you say there's rules with into
A defating. No, So there are ten principles of into
(14:29):
A defeating the actual framework, and people can google those.
I won't go through all of them. You know, when
I'm helping clients get there. I give guidelines in the
beginning in terms of how to build a plate and
make sure that you're covering your base is nutritionally because
you know, like we're saying, there's a middle ground here
between into a defeating and diets, like, yes, there are
things that we need from our food to be nourished,
(14:53):
healthy human beings. So I like to give guidelines and
parameters of like what's enough, and what does balance look like,
and how can incorporate variety, how often to eat things
like that? And I always say it is not going
to happen a percent of the time. And if you're
doing most of the things that you know feel good
most of the time, then that's kind of where into
(15:14):
the eating tends to fall, and that's what feels good. Yeah.
I never trusted myself, and it took me a long
time to even honestly trust when I really was full
or when I really was hungry, because I spent so
much time in a binge restrict environment, like my body
just didn't even know. But then once I started to
practice the principles of intuitive eating, I was able to
(15:39):
finally have a distinction and no, oh, this is full.
I can stop now, and it's okay, Like I can
stop if I get hungry and a little bit, I
can eat more. Yeah, you know, Lisa and I jokes
we always use oreos or I always come somehow go
back to oreos because that was a big no no
in my pantry. And then now I'm recording this at
(16:01):
my house right now, and downstairs, I have oreos and
they have been there for two weeks. There may be
some days where I have more than others, and there
maybe some days where I don't have any. But it
used to be that I would freak out if they
were there, and I would either eat them all or
I would have to just throw them away right right,
And that's just streams again. I like to share if
(16:21):
I am in this place now and you're feeling like, oh,
I could never do that or trust myself with these foods,
and then trust that I would still take care of
myself and have greens and proteins and other fruits and
nutrients and fats that my body needs. I am walking
proof that that can happen. Yeah, And I've seen plenty
of plenty more people that that happens. Yeah, And so
(16:44):
you know, also it's good to know. It's helpful for
people to know that there's an in between, right, like, yes,
you were, You've been at both sides, and you had
a process of getting there, where like maybe you bought
the oreos once a month and it was like getting
better but not quite there. Yeah, where you can have
them all the time, and so it's something that takes
time and practice and quote unquote slipping up and coming
(17:08):
back because that's normal. And that's what's also different from
the diets, like normalizing the challenge and the fact that
there is no sticking to something because that's not how
human bodies are made. If someone were to just be
curious listening right now of like when you talk about
building a plate, I mean, and everybody's situation is different,
(17:28):
but if there was, like in your mind an ideal
plate to be built, what would be on it for you?
For me personally, We'll just give your yours as an example,
because you've you know how to take care of what
your body need. You mentioned earlier you would help them
build a plate, So what does that look like? So,
I mean, the things that I think about are the
(17:51):
three macro nutrients protein, carbon, fat. All three are super important.
We need all of them. Typically we need more carbs
than proteins and fats and and fiber, which would be
a fruit or vegetable is like the optional fourth component there.
So you know, as an example for myself, I'm someone
who is okay with eating the same thing days in
a row. I like leftovers, I like whatever. Like my
(18:14):
breakfast most days is oatmeal, oats, or carves um. I
always put peanut butter, almond butter or something as well
as like cheese, seeds, whatever seeds to have on hand.
That's giving me fat. I know that I just won't
be full if I don't have the protein in it
in it also, so I love the texture of protein
powder in oatmeal. I think it's really good. So I
(18:35):
do that. And then fiber I add whatever, like frozen
fruit that I have on hand, or bananas or whatever
it is. So that's just an example, but those are
the main components that I think of combining them in
any way you can and no looking at the big
picture of the day. So knowing that, like, okay, if
today is a day where I'm craving pasta for dinner
(18:55):
and I don't feel like putting meatballs with it, so
it doesn't have a distinct protein source. That's okay. I
had approaching it my other meals like it's going to
even out and be enough, and tomorrow I'll have a
different dinner that's going to have maybe chicken or something.
There was so many days in my life where if
I didn't have something green, I thought I had ruined
my life and the world was ending. But now I
(19:17):
have days where I don't have anything green, and I
it doesn't stress me out and I'm able to go
to bed. But then I know that the next day,
you know what, I'm going to try to make my
favorite smoothie and add a few extra greens to it
because yeah, I didn't have green yesterday. Or I might
go a few days with no greens, but I'll figure
out a way to pay attention and work it back in.
(19:39):
Like I think, if you're feeling like a drastic like
oh no, and life is over because some diet rule
was broken, that's when it's we need to pay attention, right,
And that's the difference with like the intentions and kind
of being able to look at things and not be
so thrown off by it. And so you get to
that place where it becomes intuitive. You just know how
(20:00):
you feel when you're needing some of that fiber variety,
you know, the greens or whatever it may be. What
do you think about the videos that some people put
up that are what I eat in a day videos?
I mean, they affect everyone differently. You know, I can
look at those and say like, oh, there's a new
lunch idea. Maybe that's helpful. I think they're very dangerous
(20:22):
because a lot of people look to those as the law,
and they tend to be the you know, influencers who
are like going for the very aesthetic like morning routine,
blah blah blah, ideal life, and so I think people
also have this view of like, oh, if I eat
like her, then my whole life will be perfect like hers.
(20:42):
And you don't know, is that everything that that person
is eating in that day? Did they finish everything that
they showed in that day? Is that actually what every
day looks like? Or that's today and then tomorrow is
going to be completely different because maybe today was restrictive
and tomorrow they're going to binge And there's just so
much unknown, and for most people, I think it's hard
(21:03):
to to recognize that there is that nuance and that
there's a lot creating the bigger picture, and we just
look at that one thing and think, okay, like she
has this body and she eats this way. I have
to do exactly what's in this like thirty second TikTok video. Yeah.
For me personally, I don't get them at all, Like
I'm like, okay, I like them for like you said,
(21:26):
new ideas of what to eat, and I'm sure some
people are doing them this way, but it should be
reframed to be like, hey, here's a lunch idea, like
here's a breakfast idea. I get it because I've been
asked before. Hey, I'd love to see what you eat
in a day, so I could see where people see
that as oh I should put this content out there.
I never officially did one, Thank goodness. I did plenty
(21:48):
of other disordered behaviors that I passed on to a
lot of my listeners that I feel bad about now
and I'm like, okay, well you learn. Also, we all
have different caloric needs. So no matter why your size, okay, well,
what's also was your activity level that day or is
your period coming? Like yeah, are you stressed out in life?
(22:09):
Like what other life circumstances are quote unquote on your plate,
like you're saying with you know, calling out the diets.
I don't like to be blaming, because you're right, Like,
these creators get asked for that content, and it's because
of this bigger idea, like we were talking about before.
You know, nobody's body is supposed to look exactly like
someone else's, but there's that belief that it can. And
(22:32):
so I think that's what drives people to even ask
for it in the first place, is like that this
idea that there is one formula for one image and
it's achievable to everyone, and that is just not the case.
And like if people could accept that, if the industry
could not sell us the lie um, it'd be easier
to accept, and then there's less demand for it. Because
(22:53):
I also get frustrated when I see bloggers sharing their
clothing and posting what size they wear. And I've reached
out to people actually in like a rage about it
and asked them, you know, why can't you just say, like,
it runs big, it runs small, it runs through to size,
because some fashion bloggers saying they're like a triple extra
small is not really helpful to anyone, because like we've
(23:14):
never met, I don't even know if you're taller than
me or whatever. And I've heard people say that followers
asked for that. Okay, that I had not thought about that,
because I do get asked for sizes, but I should
give more information about my body, probably not my weight,
but I could give more as to why I'm in
a small and then that way people have that reference
(23:37):
and it's not so much like, oh, she's in a small.
And I always think it's interesting seeing how people share
clothes compared to shoes, and they'll say like, oh, I
wore my normal size in shoot, or like I wore
this is a sneaker. I wore my normal sneaker size,
or I sized up half a size, which I find helpful. Yeah,
so it's very interesting. But yeah, like the food as well,
(23:59):
just the things people ask for with I guess the
belief of like magically transforming their life with a green spot,
that's interesting. Well, I feel like Michelle, we could probably
talk about diet culture and intuitive eating for another like
thirty minutes, but we'll go ahead and wrap here and
you will be back next Saturday. So where can people
(24:20):
find you in the meantime. Yeah, so you can find
me at Michelle Pillow Pitch Nutrition on Instagram, and then
my website is Michelle pillopitch dot com and pretty much
everything is linked from there. Yeah, and Pillow Pitches p
I L l E p i C. H awesome, Thank you,
thanks so much
I won't let my body out out everything that I'm made,
don't won't spend my life trying to change. I'm learning
to love who I am. I get I'm strong, I
feel free, I know who every part of me. It's
beautiful and then will always out way if you feel
(00:24):
it with joys in the air, she'll love to the mood.
I am there. Let's say good day and did you
and die out? Happy Saturday. Outweigh fam Amy here and
I am with our new resident guest hosts. Like we
have a residency, you know, like they do in Vegas
(00:46):
at the hotel's like Adele was supposed to have her
residency and I think like Caesar's Palace, and then I
don't know if she had to pull out of that.
But you know, Garthen Brooks has residencies, George Strait has
done some. And now we have Michelle Pillo pitch here.
This one's not canceled. Yeah, the Outweigh residency, yes, not canceled.
(01:07):
We are good to go and she will be here
with me the next for Saturdays. Now, Michelle, this is
your show. I'm gonna hand it over to you for
today's topic and then we'll just engage in conversation around that.
But we are so honored to have you here. And
maybe you've been on the podcast before, but for new listeners,
just introduce who you are, your credentials, and why you're
(01:28):
passionate about outweigh. Yeah, well, thank you for having me.
I'm thrilled to be here. My name's Michelle Pillopitch. I'm
a registered dietitian and a certified personal trainer UM. I
primarily work with clients who are struggling with eating disorders,
working on eating disorder recovery UM so I work in
a virtual private practice, and I also see anyone who
(01:48):
wants to improve their health and wellness from an intuitive
eating point of view. So that's the short version of
what I do. When you mentioned intuitive eating, which we're
going to touch on that today and kind of diet
culture versus intuitive eating. And then you know, we see
all these things online, especially through Instagram. Well that's where
I get a lot of my content, and then I
(02:10):
have friends that send me things from TikTok, which I
want to spend more time there because Lisa or someone
in Lisa's family said that TikTok is the last happy
place on the Internet. I completely agree. TikTok is where
I go when I want social media without the annoying parts.
It's pure hilarious at least my feed. So yeah, I
love it. Your your algorithm is full of the funny stuff.
(02:32):
So okay, tell us what we're talking about today. Yeah, So,
I mean, it actually is interesting talking about my personal
algorithm because I am in such a bubble on Instagram
of the intuitive eating world in the non diet space
and all the things that I believe in and how
I work that I forget that it's kind of a
new novel thing to a lot of people because diet
(02:53):
culture so strong, and I see both camps, both camps
including into DEI Eating, which I very much of a
part of, going so far to the extremes in terms
of their messaging, especially online, and I hear from clients
and appears that kind of both become inaccessible because the
diet culture group is saying, you know, go on this
(03:13):
thirty day cleans elimination diet or whatever like crazy thing
that's not going to actually help you feel better and
healthier and be sustainable. But then sometimes into it of eating.
And I talked about this a little bit with Lisa
about exercise. Sometimes that camp can skirt around the health
topics so much that people who want to genuinely be
(03:35):
healthier feel better maybe they need to improve their a
once or cholesterol or something also get scared of into it,
of eating, thinking well, that's just totally giving up on health,
and that's not true. I can see where there is
the confusion. As a this is not my profession. I
miss someone who has been a part of both worlds
and spent many of my like teenagers and adult life
(03:58):
immersed in diet call turn trying every diet out there
known to man. And then as I entered into this space,
you're correct in saying it is very new for a
lot of people. It's still foreign to some people where
they're like, oh, this is the first account I've ever
followed like this. It's like a foreign length you're learning
a new language. And then it is when you don't
understand it. That's where there can be a misunderstanding, because
(04:22):
it's kind of like you just like think you know
a little bit of Spanish and then you might have
a conversation with someone that's fluent and then you're like, wait,
what did you just say? And because it gets more
advanced as you move forward. And so I think where
the messaging gets caught up, or where people get caught
up in the messaging, is that a lot of people
online focus on those first steps, where yes, it is
(04:44):
about rejecting diet culture and giving yourself permission for all foods,
and it's that temporary phase of yes, eating more of
the sweets or whatever it is you've been restricting, and
then the long term goal is still to feel your
best and prioritize your health. And so things can be
kind of maybe abnormal compared to what they'll be long
term when you first start, and that can drive people away,
(05:08):
or it can leave professionals never talking about the long
term because that can seem unattainable. It's so complex, like
how to how to portray it, because if you talk about, oh,
but you can still prioritize nutrition, then people might stay
stuck in the diets if they're only thinking about nutrition.
I think that some of the stuff that's posted online
too is to get more views at times, or get
(05:31):
shares and likes and comments, and to kind of have
a like a wow factor to it, like oh right,
without maybe explaining the bigger picture. So since we do
have a little bit of time here, How would you
explain the bigger picture? If say you were to click
on an account where it is a registered dietrician and
(05:52):
they do mean well and it it is helpful information,
but you kind of walk away thinking like, wait, what,
I can just eat like cookies all day long if
I want to, And that's not what people are saying.
But again, it's understanding the whole language. And when it's
like you're trying to shut the door on diet culture,
it can seem like two extremes of like, don't tell
(06:12):
someone they can't have French fries. You can have French fries,
but then you might hear it as so I can
have French fries all day long, right, and then oh,
I'm still gonna feel bad because that doesn't feel good either. Yeah,
it's like this sweet spot of knowing that yes, the
goal long term is understanding. Okay, my body still needs
nutrients and I need to learn not to care for it.
(06:33):
You know what I tell people, especially the clients I
work with, I think that many of them are surprised
that I even entertain the conversation of weight when it's
brought up in session. But I think it's important to
talk about because I can't think of anyone who's never
thinking about it. And I always say, you know, I'm
not going to help you go on a restrictive diet
(06:53):
to lose weight and focus on intentional weight loss. In
a hypothetical world, let's say we were talking about you
my clients losing weight. I wouldn't change anything, I was saying,
because if your body is a decided it doesn't want
to be at you don't have to intentionally try to
change anything. If you, big picture want to change your health,
(07:15):
then it's going to be the same behaviors as big
picture moving towards intuitive eating, meaning you know, eating a
wide variety of foods, allowing yourself everything, and tuning into
your how your body feels so that you're naturally practicing moderation.
It's going to be moving and exercising in a way
that feels good and is sustainable, balancing stress, drinking enough water,
(07:36):
sleeping enough, all these big picture things. And the people
who are in the diet culture world, well, I was
going to say, and doing it ethically, but I don't
think diet cultures ethical, so maybe that's a contradiction. But
somebody who has less of an intuitive focus but is
really focused on health. They're not going to be selling
you those wild ideas that are kind of the click
(07:58):
faith things. They're going to be doing the basics that
we kind of already know well. And then I think
to diet culture wants to sell you an image of like,
this is the ideal what you should be striving for.
And what we have to erase is there's all different
types of bodies. And you said it yourself. If your
(08:20):
body isn't I don't know if you use the word
suppose I want to quote you correctly, but if your
body is not meant to be that size, then you'll
move towards where maybe your body would like to be.
I I guess it's just kind of this exception that
all bodies are different and one size isn't better or
(08:40):
worse than the other. Yeah. And I also talk about
intuitive eating as this shift from external to internal, and
so when you really look at focusing on how you
feel internally rather than Okay, the goal of pursuing health
is to get to exercise. But if it's the goal
of pursuing my health is to feel a certain way internally,
(09:01):
then you're going to naturally moderate behaviors and prioritize the
things that feel good, which is going to be a
wide variety of things, and it's going to be naturally intuitive,
So that focus on what feels right, even if it
doesn't look quote unquote right according to the magazines. I
don't like calling out particular companies, but there are diets
(09:21):
out there that are disguised as intuitive eating, and I
see ads all the time. I know now because I'm
paying attention. But if I wasn't, I would say one
or two years ago, I would have signed up for
one of these programs and it would have left me
probably feeling the same way all the other diets did.
(09:44):
But the way they market it, it's almost like they
know that this whole intuitive eating thing, and you know,
even a lot of registered dietations like people are making
a shift. They're seeing the shift, so they're following with it,
and they're smart, so they're marketing in a way where
it's not a diet. If you google intuitive eating, there
are plenty of these diet plans that pop up, which
is scary. So the things that I caution people to
(10:07):
look for are the kind of extremes that all are
nothing language. So anything that is telling you to cut
something out entirely, like you can't eat any x y
Z food, that's always a red flag. If it's giving
you a particular timeline, that's a red flag. And I
would even say that like tracking food is kind of
(10:31):
a red flag also with the caveat, Like I do
have some clients track their food, but it's on an
eating disorder recovery specific app and it's short term, temporary,
just for me to get to know their patterns. Question
on that because I have not heard of eating disorder
specific food tracking app. So can you expand on that
in case that something someone might be interested in? Sure,
(10:54):
So I don't know if it exists to like use
on your own without working with a professional. But it's
called every Record and it's an app that is I
hate to compare anything to my fitness well, but it's
logging your food. It doesn't give you calorie counts, it
doesn't show any sort of metrics. Um. It allows you
to upload pictures and jot down what you ate as
(11:15):
well as any thoughts and feelings and urges that came up,
and log your hunger and fullness. So it's more geared
towards getting in touch with like everything that goes on
surrounding the food. And so why as a registered dietestion
or why would you have a client use a tool
like that? Good question. I like to have people do
that in the beginning when I'm just getting to know someone,
(11:35):
so that our session time isn't spent just going over okay,
what did you eat and kind of wasting time, but
I can look back and see their patterns for the week,
as well as having them dot down hunger and fullness
to keep track of that and see, Okay, what level
are you eating too, how are you actually feeling with
these different meals and is it enough? Are you portioning
yourself enough food? And then noting their thoughts as well
(11:58):
is really helpful because sometimes you just don't remember that
a particular meal was super triggering or made you really stressed,
or you were worried about X, y Z while you're
eating with these people. So having those notes just gives
us a lot to process and talk through in session. Okay,
that makes sense, So tracking food might be a big
(12:24):
red flag. And obviously I'll just say this too. If
you're listening that way, we're speaking to anybody that has
possible disordered behavior on food or has has had an
eating disorder, because I do have friends that they use
tracking apps, but they don't have an unhealthy relationship with
food or their body. They are genuinely curious about the
(12:45):
science of their body and like, no, they don't they
don't have an issue with it, but they like the
numbers and looking at the protein and the fascination behind
their you know, blood sugar level, their muscle caught, like
they draw their blood and they're like, oh, look at this,
like the the bio hacking type of behavior. Yeah, and
there's so much out there for that. Yeah, and so
(13:05):
intentions really matter, like if you're going to be un
I was talking to a dietitian friend about this right
after the holidays, saying, how, you know, I don't own
a scale, but my in my parents home there's a scale,
and I was like, yeah, whenever I go home, like
I'll stand on the scale and I don't even think
about it. After me, I don't. I couldn't tell you
what the number was last time I weighed myself because
I just I don't know. I'm like, it's just kind
(13:26):
of whatever. And she was like yeah, oh my gosh.
If people knew that a dietitian looked at their weight,
they would be like tabloid news scandal. But it's about
how you react right and being able to see. So
I even have some clients who I'll have them log
their food, and I always say, you know, if you
don't want to log because it stresses you out to
(13:47):
look at what you ate, I think that kind of
says something and it's worth looking into. Doesn't mean that
you need to log your food, but it's something to
talk about, just the stress around it. So in terms
of food logging being a red flag for diets, I
would say if it's logging that is metric based or
rules based and kind of used to determine if you're
(14:08):
following the rules of the plan, so things like points
or I've seen the sort of traffic light system of
like red, yellow, green foods, and so if you're logging
in order to like stay accountable to rules, that is
very diety. So do you say there's rules with into
A defating. No, So there are ten principles of into
(14:29):
A defeating the actual framework, and people can google those.
I won't go through all of them. You know, when
I'm helping clients get there. I give guidelines in the
beginning in terms of how to build a plate and
make sure that you're covering your base is nutritionally because
you know, like we're saying, there's a middle ground here
between into a defeating and diets, like, yes, there are
things that we need from our food to be nourished,
(14:53):
healthy human beings. So I like to give guidelines and
parameters of like what's enough, and what does balance look like,
and how can incorporate variety, how often to eat things
like that? And I always say it is not going
to happen a percent of the time. And if you're
doing most of the things that you know feel good
most of the time, then that's kind of where into
(15:14):
the eating tends to fall, and that's what feels good. Yeah.
I never trusted myself, and it took me a long
time to even honestly trust when I really was full
or when I really was hungry, because I spent so
much time in a binge restrict environment, like my body
just didn't even know. But then once I started to
practice the principles of intuitive eating, I was able to
(15:39):
finally have a distinction and no, oh, this is full.
I can stop now, and it's okay, Like I can
stop if I get hungry and a little bit, I
can eat more. Yeah, you know, Lisa and I jokes
we always use oreos or I always come somehow go
back to oreos because that was a big no no
in my pantry. And then now I'm recording this at
(16:01):
my house right now, and downstairs, I have oreos and
they have been there for two weeks. There may be
some days where I have more than others, and there
maybe some days where I don't have any. But it
used to be that I would freak out if they
were there, and I would either eat them all or
I would have to just throw them away right right,
And that's just streams again. I like to share if
(16:21):
I am in this place now and you're feeling like, oh,
I could never do that or trust myself with these foods,
and then trust that I would still take care of
myself and have greens and proteins and other fruits and
nutrients and fats that my body needs. I am walking
proof that that can happen. Yeah, And I've seen plenty
of plenty more people that that happens. Yeah, And so
(16:44):
you know, also it's good to know. It's helpful for
people to know that there's an in between, right, like, yes,
you were, You've been at both sides, and you had
a process of getting there, where like maybe you bought
the oreos once a month and it was like getting
better but not quite there. Yeah, where you can have
them all the time, and so it's something that takes
time and practice and quote unquote slipping up and coming
(17:08):
back because that's normal. And that's what's also different from
the diets, like normalizing the challenge and the fact that
there is no sticking to something because that's not how
human bodies are made. If someone were to just be
curious listening right now of like when you talk about
building a plate, I mean, and everybody's situation is different,
(17:28):
but if there was, like in your mind an ideal
plate to be built, what would be on it for you?
For me personally, We'll just give your yours as an example,
because you've you know how to take care of what
your body need. You mentioned earlier you would help them
build a plate, So what does that look like? So,
I mean, the things that I think about are the
(17:51):
three macro nutrients protein, carbon, fat. All three are super important.
We need all of them. Typically we need more carbs
than proteins and fats and and fiber, which would be
a fruit or vegetable is like the optional fourth component there.
So you know, as an example for myself, I'm someone
who is okay with eating the same thing days in
a row. I like leftovers, I like whatever. Like my
(18:14):
breakfast most days is oatmeal, oats, or carves um. I
always put peanut butter, almond butter or something as well
as like cheese, seeds, whatever seeds to have on hand.
That's giving me fat. I know that I just won't
be full if I don't have the protein in it
in it also, so I love the texture of protein
powder in oatmeal. I think it's really good. So I
(18:35):
do that. And then fiber I add whatever, like frozen
fruit that I have on hand, or bananas or whatever
it is. So that's just an example, but those are
the main components that I think of combining them in
any way you can and no looking at the big
picture of the day. So knowing that, like, okay, if
today is a day where I'm craving pasta for dinner
(18:55):
and I don't feel like putting meatballs with it, so
it doesn't have a distinct protein source. That's okay. I
had approaching it my other meals like it's going to
even out and be enough, and tomorrow I'll have a
different dinner that's going to have maybe chicken or something.
There was so many days in my life where if
I didn't have something green, I thought I had ruined
my life and the world was ending. But now I
(19:17):
have days where I don't have anything green, and I
it doesn't stress me out and I'm able to go
to bed. But then I know that the next day,
you know what, I'm going to try to make my
favorite smoothie and add a few extra greens to it
because yeah, I didn't have green yesterday. Or I might
go a few days with no greens, but I'll figure
out a way to pay attention and work it back in.
(19:39):
Like I think, if you're feeling like a drastic like
oh no, and life is over because some diet rule
was broken, that's when it's we need to pay attention, right,
And that's the difference with like the intentions and kind
of being able to look at things and not be
so thrown off by it. And so you get to
that place where it becomes intuitive. You just know how
(20:00):
you feel when you're needing some of that fiber variety,
you know, the greens or whatever it may be. What
do you think about the videos that some people put
up that are what I eat in a day videos?
I mean, they affect everyone differently. You know, I can
look at those and say like, oh, there's a new
lunch idea. Maybe that's helpful. I think they're very dangerous
(20:22):
because a lot of people look to those as the law,
and they tend to be the you know, influencers who
are like going for the very aesthetic like morning routine,
blah blah blah, ideal life, and so I think people
also have this view of like, oh, if I eat
like her, then my whole life will be perfect like hers.
(20:42):
And you don't know, is that everything that that person
is eating in that day? Did they finish everything that
they showed in that day? Is that actually what every
day looks like? Or that's today and then tomorrow is
going to be completely different because maybe today was restrictive
and tomorrow they're going to binge And there's just so
much unknown, and for most people, I think it's hard
(21:03):
to to recognize that there is that nuance and that
there's a lot creating the bigger picture, and we just
look at that one thing and think, okay, like she
has this body and she eats this way. I have
to do exactly what's in this like thirty second TikTok video. Yeah.
For me personally, I don't get them at all, Like
I'm like, okay, I like them for like you said,
(21:26):
new ideas of what to eat, and I'm sure some
people are doing them this way, but it should be
reframed to be like, hey, here's a lunch idea, like
here's a breakfast idea. I get it because I've been
asked before. Hey, I'd love to see what you eat
in a day, so I could see where people see
that as oh I should put this content out there.
I never officially did one, Thank goodness. I did plenty
(21:48):
of other disordered behaviors that I passed on to a
lot of my listeners that I feel bad about now
and I'm like, okay, well you learn. Also, we all
have different caloric needs. So no matter why your size, okay, well,
what's also was your activity level that day or is
your period coming? Like yeah, are you stressed out in life?
(22:09):
Like what other life circumstances are quote unquote on your plate,
like you're saying with you know, calling out the diets.
I don't like to be blaming, because you're right, Like,
these creators get asked for that content, and it's because
of this bigger idea, like we were talking about before.
You know, nobody's body is supposed to look exactly like
someone else's, but there's that belief that it can. And
(22:32):
so I think that's what drives people to even ask
for it in the first place, is like that this
idea that there is one formula for one image and
it's achievable to everyone, and that is just not the case.
And like if people could accept that, if the industry
could not sell us the lie um, it'd be easier
to accept, and then there's less demand for it. Because
(22:53):
I also get frustrated when I see bloggers sharing their
clothing and posting what size they wear. And I've reached
out to people actually in like a rage about it
and asked them, you know, why can't you just say, like,
it runs big, it runs small, it runs through to size,
because some fashion bloggers saying they're like a triple extra
small is not really helpful to anyone, because like we've
(23:14):
never met, I don't even know if you're taller than
me or whatever. And I've heard people say that followers
asked for that. Okay, that I had not thought about that,
because I do get asked for sizes, but I should
give more information about my body, probably not my weight,
but I could give more as to why I'm in
a small and then that way people have that reference
(23:37):
and it's not so much like, oh, she's in a small.
And I always think it's interesting seeing how people share
clothes compared to shoes, and they'll say like, oh, I
wore my normal size in shoot, or like I wore
this is a sneaker. I wore my normal sneaker size,
or I sized up half a size, which I find helpful. Yeah,
so it's very interesting. But yeah, like the food as well,
(23:59):
just the things people ask for with I guess the
belief of like magically transforming their life with a green spot,
that's interesting. Well, I feel like Michelle, we could probably
talk about diet culture and intuitive eating for another like
thirty minutes, but we'll go ahead and wrap here and
you will be back next Saturday. So where can people
(24:20):
find you in the meantime. Yeah, so you can find
me at Michelle Pillow Pitch Nutrition on Instagram, and then
my website is Michelle pillopitch dot com and pretty much
everything is linked from there. Yeah, and Pillow Pitches p
I L l E p i C. H awesome, Thank you,
thanks so much
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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