January 29, 2022 • 26 mins
Michelle Pillepich is a Registered Dietitian AND personal trainer who knows that exercise (even intense exercise!) CAN be JUST AS healthy for the mind and body as gentle movement. This year, she ran the New York City Marathon– but she shied away from showing it on her social media channels. With some reflection, she realized that it’s important for people to know that YOU CAN RECOVER and ALSO do “intense exercise.” She never restricted, didn’t beat herself up over the number, and honored her body along the way. We also cover the different levels of treatment available for eating disorders and the benefits of group coaching.
Learn about Michelle’s new program, Simply Intuitive here: https://michelle-pillepich.mykajabi.com/simply-intuitive
Is it an Eating Disorder or Disordered Eating Episode HERE!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I won't let my body out, be out everything that
I'm made do. Won't spend my life trying to change.
I'm learning to love who I am. I get I'm strong,
I feel free, I know who every part of me.
It's beautiful and I will always out way if you
(00:24):
feel it with your hays in the air, She'll love
to the poet there. Let's say, good day and time
did you and die out? Welcome back to Outweigh fam.
We've got a special guest. You probably already know her
from a past episode. It's registered dietitian Michelle Pillapesh. Hey Michelle, Hi,
(00:45):
good to see you, so good to see you. We
had Michelle on last year for an episode called is
it an eating disorder? Or disordered eating? I'm going to
link that in the show notes because I think we
get that question a lot on here, and it's a
great starting place to start getting in quick. It is
curious and for lack of a better word, defining where
you're at only for the purposes of then making sure
(01:07):
that you get the right support in that moment. So
Michelle is a registered dietitian and I am frequently referring
to her because she not only works with people struggling
with disordered eating, body image, all that stuff that we
all struggle with here. But she also does work with
eating disorders. So Michelle, you have specific training with eating
disorders right before you became a register, before you established
(01:30):
your own practice. Yeah. Yeah, that was really where I
started everything. My very last internship rotation in grad school
was a residential treatment center, and that's where I really
fell in love with this niche. And then I stayed
in residential after that, and that was my first rd job,
and then kind of trickled through the different levels of
care IO P P HP UM, you know, different levels
(01:52):
of intensity for eating disorder treatment, and I loved all
of it. I learned so much and definitely draw from
that residential experience in my one on one client work
right now. Awesome. I mean, I think that's good for
people to hear. They might not know that there are
different levels of care as you make your way through
and needing disorder. I think we hear a lot of
(02:12):
fairy tale stories, maybe not intentionally, but a lot of
details are left out of people's stories where they go
through a more intensive maybe a residential treatment where they're
you know, living there, maybe not maybe they're just doing
intensive outpatient. That's what IOP stands for, right, right, So
that's you know, still intensive, but an outpatient not living there.
And what was the PHP What does that stand for?
(02:34):
P HP is partial hospitalization, which is kind of an
unfortunate name because it sounds intense and scary, but that's
the in between. And that's a day program where you're
typically doing like a day treatment, but you're living at home,
and it's sometimes five days a week, sometimes three or four.
But it's a step up from the intensive outpatient, which
is usually just a few hours a week, a couple
(02:55):
of days a week. So yeah, there are a lot
of levels and that is a reason it I think
it's so so important to talk to a provider, talked
to an eating disorder specialists if you're struggling, even if
you don't think you have a full blown eating disorder,
because all of these different levels are not really talked about.
All the options can be I mean, they are overwhelming
and confusing, and so somebody just getting on the phone
(03:17):
with you are doing an initial session will be able
to really tell you what's going to be most appropriate.
I think that's a really critical point and I think
all of our listeners, whether you're struggling with something related
to food or mental health, having a team, it could
be an individual, doesn't have to be a full blown team.
Having somebody help you identify what level of support you need,
(03:41):
not how level of sick you are, but what level
of support you specifically need is critical to the process
of you getting well. And I think that characterized by
eating disorders and disordered eating is this feeling of loneliness, shame.
I'm the only one going through it, nobody can save
me but myself, and it just it couldn't be more
(04:02):
opposite than than the truth. So, I mean, I know
a lot of eating disorder therapists. I find it harder
to come across eating disorder registered dietitians in a practice
like you. So that's why you're I also just love
your approach. And I think you interned for me years
and years and years ago. That's where we connected. We
(04:23):
are both in very different places in our in our journeys. Yeah. Yeah,
something I just wanted to add was I really love
that I have the experience of residential because you're so right.
Clients come to me an outpatient thinking, oh my gosh,
like this is horrible. I'm so ashamed of everything. I
don't know where to start. And there's often a lot
that people don't want to share. And I'm always telling
(04:45):
people it doesn't phaze me. I've seen it all. I've
seen it all, and you're not the only one. And
then you know them sharing things and having that like
in some ways lack of reaction, like, oh, this provider
is not shocked by this. Other people do this can
be really really comforting to help people just feel seen
in their struggle. Yeah, and what about like the group
aspect of treatment. Do you find that people do really
(05:09):
well in group settings? Yeah, so I think that the
group is so important. Obviously, groups are a part of
more intensive treatment, and seeing that, as well as just
working one on one with clients, has led me to
create a group program for clients because so many people
that I work with are going through this struggle and
they're surrounded in their personal life by people who are dieting,
(05:33):
friends and family who have never heard of into it,
of eating who maybe in some ways contributed to their
eating disorder struggle or have struggled with their own disordered eating.
And if that person isn't on the same path, of
really healing and recovering and getting to the place of
a positive relationship with food. Then it can be so
hard for clients to have their forty five minutes or
(05:54):
one hour with me every week and then be in
their life fighting so hard and feeling so loan. So
having people to connect with who are on the same
path can be really really helpful in like solidifying everything
that they're learning. So I really want our audience to
use you as a resource. Go to your Instagram, know
that you're available for one on ones. You have some
(06:16):
insurance capabilities, but you also provide super bills, which means
you can get reimbursed. That's kind of you know what
you've been doing for a long time. But I also
want them to hear about this awesome new online group
coaching program called Simply Intuitive. Right, Yeah, so this is
brand new. It is a really comprehensive program that includes
(06:36):
a five module course which is really all the education
that I give to my one on one client. So
it goes through connecting with like your definition of health
and starting off with your defining your goals and what
you really want to achieve, teaching about intuitive eating, the
basics of like meal guidelines how to actually feed yourself
nourish yourself, and then more on the questions that I
(06:59):
get a lot about the tow wis been weight and
all of the science things as well as touching on
body image and exercise. And then there are live group
coaching calls every month and a private online community so
that you can be really plugged in and connected NonStop. Yes,
you can do the course on your own time, and
it's it's less of a challenge to fit into your
busy schedule in that sense, but you still have that
(07:21):
connection even outside of the course component and even when
you're not in like a live call with me. Yeah.
So well, it's really unique about the program. That stood
out to me at least is that one it's twelve months,
so you're really getting somebody who is committed to I
like to call undoing the work, like really, you know,
it does take time. It's not an overnight process. Uh,
(07:44):
And you're getting somebody who's going to say, I'm going
to do this for a year and see where it
takes me. I also love the price of it. Um
you know, it's very expensive to do one on ones
and the prices is really good for on your website,
it says for less than four dollars a day. I think, yes,
it's true, that's like less than a coffee here in
(08:06):
New York City. Yeah, sadly the price of coffee, right,
So I really I really love that. But I don't know.
There's something about the way that you speak to the
experience that's really gentle and comforting, and you're incorporating all
the things that I think people are afraid to ask
when they are working with somebody who teaches intuitive eating.
(08:27):
Like you said, you're explaining how the body works, how
weight works, how food works. Um, I'm super passionate about
clearing that up with my clients as well, because I
believe information is key and we don't need to skirt around.
I think those topics, just because we are in pursue
of goals that have less to do with our weight
and less focus of them, I think we could actually
(08:49):
hunker down on them. Absolutely. I mean this is something
that I especially recently, have become so so passionate about.
I know it's similar to your approach, but I created
the whole horse and program to be extremely practical because
I think there's a lot of misconception when people see
into it of eating online. They think, oh, it's just
this like willy nilly, do whatever you want. Everything's happy
(09:11):
and fine, and we're gonna eat cookies all day. And
that's so unapproachable. That's unappealing in ways because it's not
something people can relate to, you know, if they have
questions about, like you're saying, well, how does my body work?
How does my weight work? Even if it's not the
most supportive thing to be focusing on the number, it
is supportive to understand it because if you don't have understanding,
(09:32):
then you can't fight against what you're hearing from diets.
And it's it's a lot to take in. And um,
I'm glad you pointed out the twelve months of the program.
That's really intentional. Hopefully a lot of people in your community.
I think a lot of people in our communities know
that any thirty day program is a red flag, like
that's not going to really make a change. Um. And
(09:53):
I have seen from my work with clients that it
takes a long time to really learn this, implement it,
have challenges, mess up, get set back, and learn how
to deal with that and then continue forward and really
integrate it. And so I always tell my clients I'm
never gonna lie to you. I'm not going to like
tell you what it doesn't matter or you can't think
(10:16):
about it, or you should never step on the scale
or have these absolutes like no, I want to give
people the true information and then take the time to
really see how that's going to work in their life.
So true, and that's like really the key to neutralizing
words like weight, neutralizing words like calories. When I talk
about when we talk about calories, I'm not saying calories
don't exist, but more calories doesn't necessarily mean bad, and
(10:40):
less calories doesn't mean good. And I think when you
provide information facts without weight bias like you do, clearly
it's providing people with that information to actually work in
tangent with their bodies and get to know them. So,
like you said, I think a lot of people think
intuitive eating is this willy nilly thing. And I think
(11:01):
that obviously influencers and quotes carry some burden to that
blame by knowing it's a trendy thing and speaking to
it kind of loosely. But I also think a lot
of health practitioners selling it, even really good health practitioners,
in efforts to really say this is not a diet
have alienated the audience Amy. I talked about this with
(11:23):
Amy recently, have alienated the audience that needs to hear
it most, Like you know, posts that that are kind
of that make it seem very easy or just the
opposite of dieting. That's all you need to do, I think,
really um speak to an audience that already understands that.
But what we want to do on this podcast and
(11:43):
the people that I want to personally impact, and I
know that you're making an impact for are the people
that don't know how to get there and are too
afraid to approach it because it feels so far in
the distance. It still surprises me because I do sometimes
exist in the bubble of intuitive eating and and then
I'll meet someone or interact with someone who truly doesn't
(12:05):
know what it means, and it gets me so excited
to actually share about it in this this neutral, approachable way.
And that's a reason why I am extremely intentional with
my language. And another thing that I have been thinking
about a ton recently is just the word exercise, because
I see that as a part I mean, it is
(12:26):
a part of intuitive eating if you look at the
ten principles from you know, the creator's movement is a
part of it. And I see so many people on
social media who are in the intuitive eating space. Like
you said, those influencers only using the word movement, only
talking about gentle movement. And I often use the word
exercise because I think there's such a connotation with exercise
(12:50):
to grinding in the gym, being on the scaremaster for
an hour, this stuff that people hate. And I even
asked my followers recently, like what do you associate this with?
And people said, you know, sweating, working hard, like it
has this intense negative connotation, Whereas that's not what it
needs to be. That's not how I think of it
in my life. I think of it as physical activity.
(13:12):
And I talked to a lot of my clients about
physical activity um in relation to everything you do in
your day, whether it's gardening or cleaning your house, or
like locking your dog, playing touch with your dog. You
can tell I have a dog who loves to play touch.
But it's really intentional that I'm putting more of that
out there. I did become a certified personal trainer last summer,
(13:34):
and I actually ran the New York City Marathon in
the Yeah, and for so long, I mean all while
I was training. I didn't say a word about it
on my Instagram page. I wasn't going to share it
at all. And then I decided, no, I do want
to do this because people probably see marathoning as disorder
changing your body really intense, and I wanted to share, like, no,
(13:54):
you can do this in a way where you don't
change what you eat, your body doesn't change. It's enjoyable,
you allow yourself kind of like those are all things
that I did, and I really had fun and it
was a sluper slow race. It was not the time
I wanted, and like that's fine. I still love running
and I still want to do it again. And so
obviously not everyone needs to run, but exercise can be
(14:16):
like a fun hobby that also benefits you in mental
and physical ways. Yes, I think you're definitely hitting on
something that not a lot of people are speaking about,
and perhaps they're afraid to speak about it, like you were,
for being afraid to trigger somebody or afraid of how
it would be perceived, knowing how intense marathon training can be.
But you did it in your own way and kept
(14:40):
the joy were you know, didn't bring the negative self talk.
And what I think is so cool about our space, Michelle,
is that we can do the same exact things and
yet the meaning attached to them are different depending on
our mindset or our reasoning. You know, like I could
run a marathon and it'd be really unhealthy for me,
(15:02):
or I could run a marathon and have it be
healthy for me. I'm running the marathon either way, but
the way in which I'm doing it is completely different,
and my experience is different, and my takeaways are different,
and my negative self talk is different. Whereas this is
something you should be proud of. You worked really hard,
and I think we're afraid to say we work really
hard with our bodies in this space because so many
(15:25):
people self included comes from a place of exercise addiction.
I think you're right. I've definitely moved into the word
of saying movement more. But exercise is a huge part
of my mental health toolbox. It's not the only thing
in my in my mental health toolbox, I could dig
rest days, I don't eat to burn or things like that.
But I think you're a percent right to put the
(15:46):
word exercise back on the table, and I don't know,
I assume, you know, as a personal trainer, that's a
really interesting credential to have on top of being an
eating disorder therapist. It is, it's you know, it's interesting,
and I also I'm really excited with just what I'm
(16:08):
brainstorming to also bring to my community with that certification.
The lesson I have on exercise in my course does
include a lot of handouts and worksheets and mental exercises
to do to really tap into like what is enjoyable,
what are your intentions? All of those things you were
talking about, because mindset makes a big difference. I am
hoping to have kind of an add on program to
(16:29):
this that will be actual guided workouts with me videos
because I love to do those. And I mean, luckily,
you know, for myself in the place I'm in now,
I can hear the appearance focused language and tune it
out and just do what I need to do. But
when I have clients who are just stepping back into
exercise after you know, possibly overusing it or just having
(16:50):
a break for a while, that's not a resource I
want to give. And I found myself really lacking resources
to give, so so they're coming from yours truly, that's awesome. Yeah,
And I also do want to say that I'm not perfect.
I haven't always been this way. I haven't struggled with
an eating disorder, and so for that reason, you know,
I don't often talk about myself and my struggles in
(17:11):
my history, but recently, just with talking more about exercise
on social media and with clients, I have been reflecting
back and like, yeah, there was a time when I
was on the high school track team and I would
come home from practice and like check my stomach in
the mirror before I showered to see if it was
flat from my run, and like that was not a
positive mindset. And luckily, you know, I didn't spiral into
(17:33):
the addiction or over exercise. But even staying within the
activity of running, I was able to just come out
of that when I experienced it in a way that
was more fun, like running with friends. I joined a
running club. It's so much more social, and you know,
the marathon training was just amazing to see like, oh
my gosh, my body can do this. Its like I
(17:53):
didn't know I could do that, and that mental joy
is really like what I do it for now. And
I love to tell you such an individual process of
figuring out what works for you, Like I love I'm
gonna say exercise I do. I love exercise. I think
it puts my mind body connection on blast, and especially
during noisier times of my life, it is a thing
that I can put the phone down, play music, UM
(18:15):
really connect. I get great ideas, I feel good, my
joints feel lubricated, all that good stuff. But Michelle, I
will never run a marathon. I will never Traine, I
will not I will probably never run a mile in
my life. I hate running. I I have a peloton
and I only do the walks and the hikes and
the power walks, and that feels really good. And the
(18:37):
instructors are always showing up starting it with I know
that you, like all you runners are here for your
rest day, and it always cracks me up because, like,
it's pretty intense and it feels really good on my body.
And I think people have this idea that running is
more intense, therefore better than walking, or this is better
than that, and it's absolutely not true. It's what feels
(18:58):
good on your body, yes, exactly. And you know another thing,
I always emphasized in choosing when to move your body
and what to do is the fact that exercise is
a stress on your body. And so if you're already
in a state of stress, and again this is something
I added into a lesson in my courses like these
checkens to figure out is this a day to work
(19:19):
out or not. But if you're already in a state
of stress, whether that be from lack of sleep or
nourishment or mental stress because you hate what you're doing,
then it's it's no longer a positive stress on your body.
Then it's a negative stress and you're not even going
to get the benefits that you want. So yeah, choosing
something that you enjoy is so important, and there's there's
(19:40):
no better, there's no worse. There was a period during
my training where I had an injury and so I
got really into pilates and realized that I love pilates
and I was doing that and it is so hard hard,
So like you know, there it doesn't matter, and even
if it doesn't feel hard, you know there are other
things like a restorative yoga cla as for me is
(20:01):
hard mentally to like shut off and disconnect, and that
is such a positive challenge to like stretch my mind
in that way. So everything is good in different ways. Yeah,
I think exercise, whatever it is, pilates, running, walking, it
could be a way to run from yourself or to
dive more deeply into your body. When you're talking about
(20:24):
running and then pilates and then restored to yoga, you're
tapping into all these different parts of your body that
are waking up, that are feeling love and lubrication and
hormones are changing in neurotransmitter, like every little bit of
you deserves to have love. You know, we live in
a very sedentary I always say that word wrong sedentery, sedentary, sedentary.
(20:46):
We live in a very sedentary world, you know. And
it's I think when approaching intuitive eating or ditching diet culture,
there is a time period where you might need to
abstain from exercise, especially if addiction is you know, in
your past. But when you reintroduce it it can be
so welcoming and different to your body. And like you said,
(21:07):
playing fetch with your dog, you know, we need to
to move. Having a baby and oh my gosh, my
body hurts so much from carrying lifting over my shout.
You know, she can't walk like every time she needs something,
I need to to pick her up bending down. I'm
only thirty three years old, and yet I'm like aching
and cracking and my dedication to my physical body and
(21:29):
in a season of I need to take really good
care of this through strength training, through gentle movement, through
intense movement on days that feels good. Pumping my heart
rate up is important for my cardiovascular health. And it's
interesting to see my why. Like you said, shift and
I believe we are meant to move, and we don't
(21:50):
live like we're meant to move. So integrating that in
a way that that is good with your guidance, I
think it's such a cool component to this program in
a way that I really have an seeing any programs
out there really do. Yeah, And I'm like so fired
about all of this. This is what I love to
talk about. And I really want to also touch on
the point that not everybody struggles with over exercise. And
(22:13):
I think that's something that's really harp done myself included.
You know, coming from the eating disorder space, it's very
common that people have that as a compensatory behavior. And yes,
I do speak to that in my course and just
in my messaging in general, and I also have resources
for someone who struggles to motivate to move their body,
because I think that is probably a more common challenge
(22:37):
when we look at just our society as a whole.
And what you pointed out is so important connecting to
your why and making it something that is actually really
important and noticeable in your day to day life. Whether
it's you know, strength training to keep up with your
child or lift your child, or is it being able
to get up to your walk up apartment um multiple
(22:59):
times a day because you're taking your dog out, Or
is it strength of training so you don't get injured
running because that's a really positive mental thing, or you know,
maybe it's just you want to move your body so
you can sleep better at night, or like these things
that are a part of day to day life. How
we move and when we move and while we move
is so connected to just our overall well being in
a really basic way. And so there's a lot that
(23:22):
you can think about and brainstorm that I I lead
people through here to really connect to a sustainable reason
to move, because that's what's going to keep you doing
it long term, which is you know what's going to
help with your longevity, your health, your wellness or everything
rather than just trying to get a six pack or
something awesome. I love that. So, uh, the your program, um,
(23:43):
we're gonna link it below. We're gonna put your Instagram
as well. And I think in terms of who it's
for who it's not for, you can go to Michelle's
site and kind of read through it. If there's any
lack of clarity there. There's a little discovery call I
think you offer to so people can learn before investing
their time and money if this program is right for
(24:04):
them where they're at right now. I think it sounds
really incredible, And like I said, you know, Michelle is
my go to for referring for one on one so
she's certainly a trusted resource of mind and as you
can tell from being a guest now twice and maybe
again in the future, as she speaks with just compassion
and a real understanding. I think you brought up a
(24:27):
really great point where we do talk a lot about
exercise addiction, but oftentimes in my programs as well, people
will show up and be like, that's not my problem
at all, or even when it comes to eating, they'll
be like I don't binge. I I forget to eat.
So for anybody who feels isolated by some of the
conversations that we have here, just know that sometimes we
(24:48):
miss that the opposite behavior is also normal, even normal
within this space, and there's plenty of people going through it,
even if you feel like when we speak about it,
we don't we and hear you. So, Michelle, You're hitting
on so many amazing points that I think are lost
in this space, and it's simply because you're living your
truth honestly, a little blend of truth. It is life here,
(25:10):
but you continue to show up authentically. And I also
just want to mention I think not having a background
with real disordered eating or eating disorder gives you a
really nice, like just feet planted in the ground, different
than a lot of us who have been through it
and get it. There's benefits to that, but there's also
somebody something really grounding about somebody who hasn't had that
(25:32):
experience and is really just a pure professional, expertise trained
and can kind of look see it through a slightly
different lens, right right. I once had a client tell
me that they thought that I did have an eating
disorder history because I spoke about it and could understand
it so well, and I was so flattered by that. Yeah.
So I do like to bring in just all different perspectives,
(25:54):
touch on all different points and and like you mentioned, yes,
anyone who asonates with any of this, I would love
for them to book a call. I have those links
on my site and on the program page, and then
we can discuss from there, like what their specific challenges are,
whether it's most appropriate for one on one or group
or or something totally different, and I can refer them
(26:14):
to other resources. But I do love to connect and
actually chat in real time with people to tease it
all out. That's always the best way. Awesome. Well, thank
you for being you doing the work that you do, um,
and I expect you'll hear from a lot of our
outweigh family who may be hopefully interested in taking the
real commitment for the next twelve months. Yes, it would
(26:35):
be awesome, awesome, thanks so much for having me. Thank you, Michelle,
I won't let my body out, be out everything that
I'm made do. Won't spend my life trying to change.
I'm learning to love who I am. I get I'm strong,
I feel free, I know who every part of me.
It's beautiful and I will always out way if you
(00:24):
feel it with your hays in the air, She'll love
to the poet there. Let's say, good day and time
did you and die out? Welcome back to Outweigh fam.
We've got a special guest. You probably already know her
from a past episode. It's registered dietitian Michelle Pillapesh. Hey Michelle, Hi,
(00:45):
good to see you, so good to see you. We
had Michelle on last year for an episode called is
it an eating disorder? Or disordered eating? I'm going to
link that in the show notes because I think we
get that question a lot on here, and it's a
great starting place to start getting in quick. It is
curious and for lack of a better word, defining where
you're at only for the purposes of then making sure
(01:07):
that you get the right support in that moment. So
Michelle is a registered dietitian and I am frequently referring
to her because she not only works with people struggling
with disordered eating, body image, all that stuff that we
all struggle with here. But she also does work with
eating disorders. So Michelle, you have specific training with eating
disorders right before you became a register, before you established
(01:30):
your own practice. Yeah. Yeah, that was really where I
started everything. My very last internship rotation in grad school
was a residential treatment center, and that's where I really
fell in love with this niche. And then I stayed
in residential after that, and that was my first rd job,
and then kind of trickled through the different levels of
care IO P P HP UM, you know, different levels
(01:52):
of intensity for eating disorder treatment, and I loved all
of it. I learned so much and definitely draw from
that residential experience in my one on one client work
right now. Awesome. I mean, I think that's good for
people to hear. They might not know that there are
different levels of care as you make your way through
and needing disorder. I think we hear a lot of
(02:12):
fairy tale stories, maybe not intentionally, but a lot of
details are left out of people's stories where they go
through a more intensive maybe a residential treatment where they're
you know, living there, maybe not maybe they're just doing
intensive outpatient. That's what IOP stands for, right, right, So
that's you know, still intensive, but an outpatient not living there.
And what was the PHP What does that stand for?
(02:34):
P HP is partial hospitalization, which is kind of an
unfortunate name because it sounds intense and scary, but that's
the in between. And that's a day program where you're
typically doing like a day treatment, but you're living at home,
and it's sometimes five days a week, sometimes three or four.
But it's a step up from the intensive outpatient, which
is usually just a few hours a week, a couple
(02:55):
of days a week. So yeah, there are a lot
of levels and that is a reason it I think
it's so so important to talk to a provider, talked
to an eating disorder specialists if you're struggling, even if
you don't think you have a full blown eating disorder,
because all of these different levels are not really talked about.
All the options can be I mean, they are overwhelming
and confusing, and so somebody just getting on the phone
(03:17):
with you are doing an initial session will be able
to really tell you what's going to be most appropriate.
I think that's a really critical point and I think
all of our listeners, whether you're struggling with something related
to food or mental health, having a team, it could
be an individual, doesn't have to be a full blown team.
Having somebody help you identify what level of support you need,
(03:41):
not how level of sick you are, but what level
of support you specifically need is critical to the process
of you getting well. And I think that characterized by
eating disorders and disordered eating is this feeling of loneliness, shame.
I'm the only one going through it, nobody can save
me but myself, and it just it couldn't be more
(04:02):
opposite than than the truth. So, I mean, I know
a lot of eating disorder therapists. I find it harder
to come across eating disorder registered dietitians in a practice
like you. So that's why you're I also just love
your approach. And I think you interned for me years
and years and years ago. That's where we connected. We
(04:23):
are both in very different places in our in our journeys. Yeah. Yeah,
something I just wanted to add was I really love
that I have the experience of residential because you're so right.
Clients come to me an outpatient thinking, oh my gosh,
like this is horrible. I'm so ashamed of everything. I
don't know where to start. And there's often a lot
that people don't want to share. And I'm always telling
(04:45):
people it doesn't phaze me. I've seen it all. I've
seen it all, and you're not the only one. And
then you know them sharing things and having that like
in some ways lack of reaction, like, oh, this provider
is not shocked by this. Other people do this can
be really really comforting to help people just feel seen
in their struggle. Yeah, and what about like the group
aspect of treatment. Do you find that people do really
(05:09):
well in group settings? Yeah, so I think that the
group is so important. Obviously, groups are a part of
more intensive treatment, and seeing that, as well as just
working one on one with clients, has led me to
create a group program for clients because so many people
that I work with are going through this struggle and
they're surrounded in their personal life by people who are dieting,
(05:33):
friends and family who have never heard of into it,
of eating who maybe in some ways contributed to their
eating disorder struggle or have struggled with their own disordered eating.
And if that person isn't on the same path, of
really healing and recovering and getting to the place of
a positive relationship with food. Then it can be so
hard for clients to have their forty five minutes or
(05:54):
one hour with me every week and then be in
their life fighting so hard and feeling so loan. So
having people to connect with who are on the same
path can be really really helpful in like solidifying everything
that they're learning. So I really want our audience to
use you as a resource. Go to your Instagram, know
that you're available for one on ones. You have some
(06:16):
insurance capabilities, but you also provide super bills, which means
you can get reimbursed. That's kind of you know what
you've been doing for a long time. But I also
want them to hear about this awesome new online group
coaching program called Simply Intuitive. Right, Yeah, so this is
brand new. It is a really comprehensive program that includes
(06:36):
a five module course which is really all the education
that I give to my one on one client. So
it goes through connecting with like your definition of health
and starting off with your defining your goals and what
you really want to achieve, teaching about intuitive eating, the
basics of like meal guidelines how to actually feed yourself
nourish yourself, and then more on the questions that I
(06:59):
get a lot about the tow wis been weight and
all of the science things as well as touching on
body image and exercise. And then there are live group
coaching calls every month and a private online community so
that you can be really plugged in and connected NonStop. Yes,
you can do the course on your own time, and
it's it's less of a challenge to fit into your
busy schedule in that sense, but you still have that
(07:21):
connection even outside of the course component and even when
you're not in like a live call with me. Yeah.
So well, it's really unique about the program. That stood
out to me at least is that one it's twelve months,
so you're really getting somebody who is committed to I
like to call undoing the work, like really, you know,
it does take time. It's not an overnight process. Uh,
(07:44):
And you're getting somebody who's going to say, I'm going
to do this for a year and see where it
takes me. I also love the price of it. Um
you know, it's very expensive to do one on ones
and the prices is really good for on your website,
it says for less than four dollars a day. I think, yes,
it's true, that's like less than a coffee here in
(08:06):
New York City. Yeah, sadly the price of coffee, right,
So I really I really love that. But I don't know.
There's something about the way that you speak to the
experience that's really gentle and comforting, and you're incorporating all
the things that I think people are afraid to ask
when they are working with somebody who teaches intuitive eating.
(08:27):
Like you said, you're explaining how the body works, how
weight works, how food works. Um, I'm super passionate about
clearing that up with my clients as well, because I
believe information is key and we don't need to skirt around.
I think those topics, just because we are in pursue
of goals that have less to do with our weight
and less focus of them, I think we could actually
(08:49):
hunker down on them. Absolutely. I mean this is something
that I especially recently, have become so so passionate about.
I know it's similar to your approach, but I created
the whole horse and program to be extremely practical because
I think there's a lot of misconception when people see
into it of eating online. They think, oh, it's just
this like willy nilly, do whatever you want. Everything's happy
(09:11):
and fine, and we're gonna eat cookies all day. And
that's so unapproachable. That's unappealing in ways because it's not
something people can relate to, you know, if they have
questions about, like you're saying, well, how does my body work?
How does my weight work? Even if it's not the
most supportive thing to be focusing on the number, it
is supportive to understand it because if you don't have understanding,
(09:32):
then you can't fight against what you're hearing from diets.
And it's it's a lot to take in. And um,
I'm glad you pointed out the twelve months of the program.
That's really intentional. Hopefully a lot of people in your community.
I think a lot of people in our communities know
that any thirty day program is a red flag, like
that's not going to really make a change. Um. And
(09:53):
I have seen from my work with clients that it
takes a long time to really learn this, implement it,
have challenges, mess up, get set back, and learn how
to deal with that and then continue forward and really
integrate it. And so I always tell my clients I'm
never gonna lie to you. I'm not going to like
tell you what it doesn't matter or you can't think
(10:16):
about it, or you should never step on the scale
or have these absolutes like no, I want to give
people the true information and then take the time to
really see how that's going to work in their life.
So true, and that's like really the key to neutralizing
words like weight, neutralizing words like calories. When I talk
about when we talk about calories, I'm not saying calories
don't exist, but more calories doesn't necessarily mean bad, and
(10:40):
less calories doesn't mean good. And I think when you
provide information facts without weight bias like you do, clearly
it's providing people with that information to actually work in
tangent with their bodies and get to know them. So,
like you said, I think a lot of people think
intuitive eating is this willy nilly thing. And I think
(11:01):
that obviously influencers and quotes carry some burden to that
blame by knowing it's a trendy thing and speaking to
it kind of loosely. But I also think a lot
of health practitioners selling it, even really good health practitioners,
in efforts to really say this is not a diet
have alienated the audience Amy. I talked about this with
(11:23):
Amy recently, have alienated the audience that needs to hear
it most, Like you know, posts that that are kind
of that make it seem very easy or just the
opposite of dieting. That's all you need to do, I think,
really um speak to an audience that already understands that.
But what we want to do on this podcast and
(11:43):
the people that I want to personally impact, and I
know that you're making an impact for are the people
that don't know how to get there and are too
afraid to approach it because it feels so far in
the distance. It still surprises me because I do sometimes
exist in the bubble of intuitive eating and and then
I'll meet someone or interact with someone who truly doesn't
(12:05):
know what it means, and it gets me so excited
to actually share about it in this this neutral, approachable way.
And that's a reason why I am extremely intentional with
my language. And another thing that I have been thinking
about a ton recently is just the word exercise, because
I see that as a part I mean, it is
(12:26):
a part of intuitive eating if you look at the
ten principles from you know, the creator's movement is a
part of it. And I see so many people on
social media who are in the intuitive eating space. Like
you said, those influencers only using the word movement, only
talking about gentle movement. And I often use the word
exercise because I think there's such a connotation with exercise
(12:50):
to grinding in the gym, being on the scaremaster for
an hour, this stuff that people hate. And I even
asked my followers recently, like what do you associate this with?
And people said, you know, sweating, working hard, like it
has this intense negative connotation, Whereas that's not what it
needs to be. That's not how I think of it
in my life. I think of it as physical activity.
(13:12):
And I talked to a lot of my clients about
physical activity um in relation to everything you do in
your day, whether it's gardening or cleaning your house, or
like locking your dog, playing touch with your dog. You
can tell I have a dog who loves to play touch.
But it's really intentional that I'm putting more of that
out there. I did become a certified personal trainer last summer,
(13:34):
and I actually ran the New York City Marathon in
the Yeah, and for so long, I mean all while
I was training. I didn't say a word about it
on my Instagram page. I wasn't going to share it
at all. And then I decided, no, I do want
to do this because people probably see marathoning as disorder
changing your body really intense, and I wanted to share, like, no,
(13:54):
you can do this in a way where you don't
change what you eat, your body doesn't change. It's enjoyable,
you allow yourself kind of like those are all things
that I did, and I really had fun and it
was a sluper slow race. It was not the time
I wanted, and like that's fine. I still love running
and I still want to do it again. And so
obviously not everyone needs to run, but exercise can be
(14:16):
like a fun hobby that also benefits you in mental
and physical ways. Yes, I think you're definitely hitting on
something that not a lot of people are speaking about,
and perhaps they're afraid to speak about it, like you were,
for being afraid to trigger somebody or afraid of how
it would be perceived, knowing how intense marathon training can be.
But you did it in your own way and kept
(14:40):
the joy were you know, didn't bring the negative self talk.
And what I think is so cool about our space, Michelle,
is that we can do the same exact things and
yet the meaning attached to them are different depending on
our mindset or our reasoning. You know, like I could
run a marathon and it'd be really unhealthy for me,
(15:02):
or I could run a marathon and have it be
healthy for me. I'm running the marathon either way, but
the way in which I'm doing it is completely different,
and my experience is different, and my takeaways are different,
and my negative self talk is different. Whereas this is
something you should be proud of. You worked really hard,
and I think we're afraid to say we work really
hard with our bodies in this space because so many
(15:25):
people self included comes from a place of exercise addiction.
I think you're right. I've definitely moved into the word
of saying movement more. But exercise is a huge part
of my mental health toolbox. It's not the only thing
in my in my mental health toolbox, I could dig
rest days, I don't eat to burn or things like that.
But I think you're a percent right to put the
(15:46):
word exercise back on the table, and I don't know,
I assume, you know, as a personal trainer, that's a
really interesting credential to have on top of being an
eating disorder therapist. It is, it's you know, it's interesting,
and I also I'm really excited with just what I'm
(16:08):
brainstorming to also bring to my community with that certification.
The lesson I have on exercise in my course does
include a lot of handouts and worksheets and mental exercises
to do to really tap into like what is enjoyable,
what are your intentions? All of those things you were
talking about, because mindset makes a big difference. I am
hoping to have kind of an add on program to
(16:29):
this that will be actual guided workouts with me videos
because I love to do those. And I mean, luckily,
you know, for myself in the place I'm in now,
I can hear the appearance focused language and tune it
out and just do what I need to do. But
when I have clients who are just stepping back into
exercise after you know, possibly overusing it or just having
(16:50):
a break for a while, that's not a resource I
want to give. And I found myself really lacking resources
to give, so so they're coming from yours truly, that's awesome. Yeah,
And I also do want to say that I'm not perfect.
I haven't always been this way. I haven't struggled with
an eating disorder, and so for that reason, you know,
I don't often talk about myself and my struggles in
(17:11):
my history, but recently, just with talking more about exercise
on social media and with clients, I have been reflecting
back and like, yeah, there was a time when I
was on the high school track team and I would
come home from practice and like check my stomach in
the mirror before I showered to see if it was
flat from my run, and like that was not a
positive mindset. And luckily, you know, I didn't spiral into
(17:33):
the addiction or over exercise. But even staying within the
activity of running, I was able to just come out
of that when I experienced it in a way that
was more fun, like running with friends. I joined a
running club. It's so much more social, and you know,
the marathon training was just amazing to see like, oh
my gosh, my body can do this. Its like I
(17:53):
didn't know I could do that, and that mental joy
is really like what I do it for now. And
I love to tell you such an individual process of
figuring out what works for you, Like I love I'm
gonna say exercise I do. I love exercise. I think
it puts my mind body connection on blast, and especially
during noisier times of my life, it is a thing
that I can put the phone down, play music, UM
(18:15):
really connect. I get great ideas, I feel good, my
joints feel lubricated, all that good stuff. But Michelle, I
will never run a marathon. I will never Traine, I
will not I will probably never run a mile in
my life. I hate running. I I have a peloton
and I only do the walks and the hikes and
the power walks, and that feels really good. And the
(18:37):
instructors are always showing up starting it with I know
that you, like all you runners are here for your
rest day, and it always cracks me up because, like,
it's pretty intense and it feels really good on my body.
And I think people have this idea that running is
more intense, therefore better than walking, or this is better
than that, and it's absolutely not true. It's what feels
(18:58):
good on your body, yes, exactly. And you know another thing,
I always emphasized in choosing when to move your body
and what to do is the fact that exercise is
a stress on your body. And so if you're already
in a state of stress, and again this is something
I added into a lesson in my courses like these
checkens to figure out is this a day to work
(19:19):
out or not. But if you're already in a state
of stress, whether that be from lack of sleep or
nourishment or mental stress because you hate what you're doing,
then it's it's no longer a positive stress on your body.
Then it's a negative stress and you're not even going
to get the benefits that you want. So yeah, choosing
something that you enjoy is so important, and there's there's
(19:40):
no better, there's no worse. There was a period during
my training where I had an injury and so I
got really into pilates and realized that I love pilates
and I was doing that and it is so hard hard,
So like you know, there it doesn't matter, and even
if it doesn't feel hard, you know there are other
things like a restorative yoga cla as for me is
(20:01):
hard mentally to like shut off and disconnect, and that
is such a positive challenge to like stretch my mind
in that way. So everything is good in different ways. Yeah,
I think exercise, whatever it is, pilates, running, walking, it
could be a way to run from yourself or to
dive more deeply into your body. When you're talking about
(20:24):
running and then pilates and then restored to yoga, you're
tapping into all these different parts of your body that
are waking up, that are feeling love and lubrication and
hormones are changing in neurotransmitter, like every little bit of
you deserves to have love. You know, we live in
a very sedentary I always say that word wrong sedentery, sedentary, sedentary.
(20:46):
We live in a very sedentary world, you know. And
it's I think when approaching intuitive eating or ditching diet culture,
there is a time period where you might need to
abstain from exercise, especially if addiction is you know, in
your past. But when you reintroduce it it can be
so welcoming and different to your body. And like you said,
(21:07):
playing fetch with your dog, you know, we need to
to move. Having a baby and oh my gosh, my
body hurts so much from carrying lifting over my shout.
You know, she can't walk like every time she needs something,
I need to to pick her up bending down. I'm
only thirty three years old, and yet I'm like aching
and cracking and my dedication to my physical body and
(21:29):
in a season of I need to take really good
care of this through strength training, through gentle movement, through
intense movement on days that feels good. Pumping my heart
rate up is important for my cardiovascular health. And it's
interesting to see my why. Like you said, shift and
I believe we are meant to move, and we don't
(21:50):
live like we're meant to move. So integrating that in
a way that that is good with your guidance, I
think it's such a cool component to this program in
a way that I really have an seeing any programs
out there really do. Yeah, And I'm like so fired
about all of this. This is what I love to
talk about. And I really want to also touch on
the point that not everybody struggles with over exercise. And
(22:13):
I think that's something that's really harp done myself included.
You know, coming from the eating disorder space, it's very
common that people have that as a compensatory behavior. And yes,
I do speak to that in my course and just
in my messaging in general, and I also have resources
for someone who struggles to motivate to move their body,
because I think that is probably a more common challenge
(22:37):
when we look at just our society as a whole.
And what you pointed out is so important connecting to
your why and making it something that is actually really
important and noticeable in your day to day life. Whether
it's you know, strength training to keep up with your
child or lift your child, or is it being able
to get up to your walk up apartment um multiple
(22:59):
times a day because you're taking your dog out, Or
is it strength of training so you don't get injured
running because that's a really positive mental thing, or you know,
maybe it's just you want to move your body so
you can sleep better at night, or like these things
that are a part of day to day life. How
we move and when we move and while we move
is so connected to just our overall well being in
a really basic way. And so there's a lot that
(23:22):
you can think about and brainstorm that I I lead
people through here to really connect to a sustainable reason
to move, because that's what's going to keep you doing
it long term, which is you know what's going to
help with your longevity, your health, your wellness or everything
rather than just trying to get a six pack or
something awesome. I love that. So, uh, the your program, um,
(23:43):
we're gonna link it below. We're gonna put your Instagram
as well. And I think in terms of who it's
for who it's not for, you can go to Michelle's
site and kind of read through it. If there's any
lack of clarity there. There's a little discovery call I
think you offer to so people can learn before investing
their time and money if this program is right for
(24:04):
them where they're at right now. I think it sounds
really incredible, And like I said, you know, Michelle is
my go to for referring for one on one so
she's certainly a trusted resource of mind and as you
can tell from being a guest now twice and maybe
again in the future, as she speaks with just compassion
and a real understanding. I think you brought up a
(24:27):
really great point where we do talk a lot about
exercise addiction, but oftentimes in my programs as well, people
will show up and be like, that's not my problem
at all, or even when it comes to eating, they'll
be like I don't binge. I I forget to eat.
So for anybody who feels isolated by some of the
conversations that we have here, just know that sometimes we
(24:48):
miss that the opposite behavior is also normal, even normal
within this space, and there's plenty of people going through it,
even if you feel like when we speak about it,
we don't we and hear you. So, Michelle, You're hitting
on so many amazing points that I think are lost
in this space, and it's simply because you're living your
truth honestly, a little blend of truth. It is life here,
(25:10):
but you continue to show up authentically. And I also
just want to mention I think not having a background
with real disordered eating or eating disorder gives you a
really nice, like just feet planted in the ground, different
than a lot of us who have been through it
and get it. There's benefits to that, but there's also
somebody something really grounding about somebody who hasn't had that
(25:32):
experience and is really just a pure professional, expertise trained
and can kind of look see it through a slightly
different lens, right right. I once had a client tell
me that they thought that I did have an eating
disorder history because I spoke about it and could understand
it so well, and I was so flattered by that. Yeah.
So I do like to bring in just all different perspectives,
(25:54):
touch on all different points and and like you mentioned, yes,
anyone who asonates with any of this, I would love
for them to book a call. I have those links
on my site and on the program page, and then
we can discuss from there, like what their specific challenges are,
whether it's most appropriate for one on one or group
or or something totally different, and I can refer them
(26:14):
to other resources. But I do love to connect and
actually chat in real time with people to tease it
all out. That's always the best way. Awesome. Well, thank
you for being you doing the work that you do, um,
and I expect you'll hear from a lot of our
outweigh family who may be hopefully interested in taking the
real commitment for the next twelve months. Yes, it would
(26:35):
be awesome, awesome, thanks so much for having me. Thank you, Michelle,
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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